The Charisma Teacher: Psychology Of Why People Don't Like You! People Are Attracted To These Traits!

I want to go through these five habits that make people instantly dislike you yes yes so these are tiny little things that a lot of people do without even realizing that they're doing this sort of stuff first one is oh my God so true Charlie hoopert is a leading expert in Charisma and confidence his insights and practical techniques have helped millions of people Master communication and body language to thrive in both personal and professional relationships how important is charisma and confidence it's perhaps the most underrated piece of success and it's the ability to speak with

conviction the ability to influence someone ability to connect with people I mean look at Donald Trump he talked his way into the literal presidency of the United States of America it's so incredibly powerful and is it something that you can learn yeah and I'm a testament to that because growing up I was invisible not making new friends not forming connections I wasn't dating because there was this fear that I would get hurt where did that come from part of it to the experiences that I had one of them was being sexually abused and I felt

disgusted with myself um I was struggling and frustrated with the compensations I'd made as a result of it and so I learned all the tips and tricks to develop confidence and became a completely different person and we're going to go through all of them amazing so there's prey versus Predator movement which is tremendously valuable for First Impressions and then there's the charismatic traits which women are attracted to the 60c ACT to establish trust and respect and then I have six charismatic mindsets for success and there's plenty more listen I've got time okay so let's break

it down I have been forced into a bet with my team we're about to hit 10 million subscribers on YouTube which is our biggest Milestone ever thanks to all of you and we want to have a massive party for the people that have worked on this show for years behind the scenes so they said to me Steve for every new subscriber we get in the next 30 days can $1 be given to our celebration fund for the entire team and I've agreed to the bet so if you want to say thank you to the team

behind the scenes at di of here all you've got to do is hit the Subscribe button so actually this is the first time I'm going to tell you not to subscribe because it might end up costing me an [Applause] [Music] awful Charlie hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of people have benefited from your work and tens of thousands of people have been through your University learning about something if you had to explain in your own words what it is that you're doing for those people in a simple way what would you how

would you say that take all the situations where you're interacting with another person whether it's at your work dating friends and groups and take the times that you're feeling that you're not grounded in that sense of confidence that you maybe have when you're sitting at home on the couch with your friend or your family and bring the best version of yourself to those situations I think a lot of people also want flowing conversations they want to feel like themselves they want to be the person that is respected and is admired when they walk into a

room they want other people to notice them that's one of the big ones that we hear from guys is they want to be the person that anytime they enter a room that women and men take notice of them it usually is an acute thing so a lot of people show up because there's a girl that they liked and it's not going well or something like that or they went out for a promotion and somebody that they felt was less qualified that them wound up getting the job so they come in with a very acute social

situation that they would like to change they'd like to get the girl they' like to get the job theyd like to be the leader in their friend group but when people have gone through the course what I see is they speak more about a a sense of joy in life and confidence because I think that if you feel disconnected from people there actually read a thing this morning that some guy said you know I came here and I started applying your ideas and I got more tips at my job as a waiter which is really

cool but also I felt as if I'd fallen into nihilism like I was just things didn't matter anymore and my ability to connect with people is Shifting that for me I feel more connected less nihilistic it's interesting because when people hear words like phrases like body language and Charisma and confidence they sound like tips and tricks and stuff but when I think about the impact that these things have had on my own life when I think about even presidential elections and how our society is is designed and who Rises to the top and who doesn't

so much of it seems to depend on whether you understand naturally or through learning the skills how to be charismatic confident how to sell how to get someone else in some situation to believe you to buy into what you have to say um so I guess my question to you is how important is it like and someone that has the skills that you you teach people versus someone that doesn't how much of a trajectory shift is that going to be do you think on their on their life to me so there's the external question of

what is it going to allow you to achieve in the world and then there there's the internal question of what is your subjective experience of your life starting with the internal to me it's almost everything like you're if you feel disconnected from the world it is very very hard to feel good no matter how much money you have no matter how much your six-pack abs are working for you like even if you have agulation and you have Fame but you feel disconnected from the people in your life it is very hard to feel good on

the external side I think it's tremendously underrated and I think this is why people didn't see Donald Trump coming because does he have the best policies does he have the best record is he of any of these things he is clearly someone who has gotten to where he has by talking he talked his way into the literal presidency of the United States of America and if I look just at my own life at people who were advancing at work and then when I started focusing on this stuff it was not the best analyst there was

a guy who was a better analyst than me and he did not get the off trck promotion that I got and it was just because I'd made closer connections with the president of of the company than he had and so I think it's wildly underrated I think a huge myth that people get is that if you get good grades do what is asked of you in the job description are generally kind and friendly and speak honestly that things are just going to work out for you but there is a missing piece which is do other

people connect with you and like you and want you to succeed and I think it's perhaps the most underrated piece of success which is why I put all my attention there this wasn't like a play at making a lot of money or having a big YouTube channel it was the highest leverage point that I felt and experienced in my own life and is it something that you can learn that is yeah I said I said there was a big myth this is probably the first or second biggest myth is that you can't learn it and

that I believe that for what 18 years of my life so the the first portion of my life was Charisma is being able to throw a football better than the other kids right Charisma is just the thing that you have at 13 that I definitely didn't have and it was only around 18 1920 that I realized that the way that I approached people in conversations had a dramatic impact on the responses that I got so it is most definitely something you can learn I feel like I'm a testament to that and you know people have

gone through the course uh also feel that and if someone hasn't seen your YouTube channel what is it you're doing on that YouTube channel so say that you know we've got someone listening now and they've never heard of your your channel before can you explain exactly what you've done on that channel how long you've done it for and how many situations you've looked at over the last decade yeah so basically what I would do is I would look at moments it started with a Bill Clinton debate that was the first video that I ever did

and there's this debate moment where Bill Clinton and George Bush Senior are having a town hall so it's them communicating directly with people and it's known as the moment that Bill Clinton won the election and it's him going up to this woman and just she asks some question about politics or the thing and he goes up and he says how does this impact you and he looks her dead in the eye and you could tell she just she's feeling it she's connected with him and he gives his answer so it's us breaking down those sorts

of interactions some of them are in politics some of them are on talk shows and some of them are scripted TV shows where I'm just saying hey this is obviously a script but it would work in real life if you did it like Jon Snow did in Game of Thrones or something so we use that sort of as the hook because you know a lot of people weren't looking Charisma was not a topic that anyone was interested in 10 years ago so we would hook people with Game of Thrones or this famous person but the

content of it would be how to handle a group interaction or how to lead more effectively and these were things that I wasn't necessarily learning from these videos but I was learning elsewhere in my life and then commenting on what I saw in these videos and that really connected with our audience and it's helped us get I think 6.8 million subscribers at this point it's incredible and it's actually such an unbelievably powerful way to do it by showing both real world examples but also fictional examples and I was even watch watching you break down certain

interviews that the famous um Jordan Peterson interview with Kath Kathy Newman Kathy Newman that one's great and you break down exactly what's going on on kind of both sides and how Jordan ultimately ends up winning that argument by um kind of holding his position and Kathy trying to put words into his mouth Etc all of those things but you break it down you break down moments from history moments that we all know from movies and tell us exactly what's going on in terms of like human connection conversation persuasion leadership influence in those situations incredibly fascinating

so let's talk about you yeah because people will look at you now sat here and they'll think this is a guy that's always had confident you're a good looking guy you're someone that is clearly a great conversationalist you exude Charisma but if we were to wind back I know that that's not always been the case yeah yeah so take me back you did your research uh so I grew up extremely shy and still am today in introvert I mean you could probably see if you flash five or six minutes back to the beginning of this

interview like I started off nervous I feel very comfortable now but my default state is one of shyness reservedness and nervousness and so that was just how I was for the long time and when it came time to graduate high school they have these superlatives that they would give out and I had a class of about 500 people and my superlative was most likely to break out of a shell in college so I was well known but I was well known for not saying a lot so people like didn't know me and then voted for

me as the person who one day would show up and reveal themselves to the world I suppose that didn't happen I didn't break out of my shell in college at all uh I continued to do the same I had a small small group of friends I wasn't like uh dating or anything like that and then it was only when I was about 19 years old that I studied abroad and had gotten so sick of the experience for me at that time in my life of having a massive Crush for usually a year forming a entire

relationship in my head that we would one day have and then having that not materialize because they weren't interested or if they were interested I could quickly talk them out of being interested just by my general awkwardness that had happened so many times that I was done with it and frustrated so when I went abroad I made it a mission to figure out what was going on and shift it and it was actually very helpful and when people ask me how do you begin to change these things in yourself shifting your environment is so impactful

probably the one of the most impactful things because what you don't realize is that your friend and family who love you very much tend to not like shifts that you make to your habits particularly the way that you socialize with other people but when I gave myself the freedom of being abroad I tried everything you know I worked on my eye contact I read every book and we just run little personal experiments some of which didn't go well there was one period of time I remember where the experiment was big eyes and so I'd like

walk around so nice to meet you and you immediately you immediately recoil your head I swear I did that probably for a week until somebody said dude what are you doing with your eyes stop really yeah he was a good friend um I appreciate him for that but it was just many experiments and I started them while I was studying abroad and I continue when I came back but by the time that I did come back six months or a year later uh the word in the college campus was like what happened to you you

are a completely different person you are outgoing and you seem capable of talking particularly to women at this case and then friends were all of a sudden asking me what should I do and so that started sort of a second phase of my life where this was the primary focus day-to-day you know after like eating drinking and maybe getting some money in order to pay my bills other people how to influence them how to interact with them how to get better friendships how to talk my way into a job you know all of those sorts

of things became the primary focus for me just to spend a second going back to how what your sort of internal monologue was like through the awkward years of your life how did you how did you feel and what did you think of yourself like if IID asked you what do you think of yourself back then and you were to answer it honestly what would you say honestly which I couldn't have done but I will tell you um ashamed would have been what I would have said and I didn't like I didn't know this about

myself but like I didn't have the right to speak up like it people wouldn't have liked it I had I remember I had one guy and it didn't even bother me because I I suppose it connected with how I felt but he said Charlie you're so normal that you're invisible and I think that was by Design like blending in became a way to be unseen and a way to be safe and I wasn't picked on you know like all of those things never happen just because I was there but not in a way that was

noticeable the problem with that is yeah you're safe you don't get picked on nothing happens but also nothing happens right you're not making new friends you're not forming connections other people were forming new groups and expanding and I I was not so there was a huge disconnect between how I felt in a more public setting and how I felt in more intimate private settings and did you look at some other people who didn't seem to have those challenges as I don't know biologically gifted yeah freaks of nature is that what you thought oh yeah totally

there was there was clearly it didn't the thought that something could shift in me to get me to have a different response didn't occur until I was 18 or 19 years old and I think that's a a really important shift for a lot of people is where you start recognizing that it's on you it's your responsibility and the way that I put it at the time was it's always my fault so what I carried from 19 to say 28 or 29 was if this interaction with you and I or anyone doesn't go well there's something

that I could have done differently in order to make it go well and so that gave me this fuel to constantly adjust because I was going okay that one didn't go great what could I have done where did it break down it was three minutes into conversation but I felt they sort of dropped off when I started answering that question about my boring job in a really boring way so let me in this next interaction talk about my job in a way that is a bit more exciting and so I was really spending a lot

of time obsessively reviewing and talking with my co-founder and best friend at the time like what happened where did it break down what could we try differently and then running these experiments it was genuinely an obsession and a thrilling one at at that what was the difference between the the guy who went on holiday that day on the plane versus the guy that came back in terms of skills or knowledge what was the actual difference in the person a willingness to stick your neck out there was the big thing so one of one of the

primary things that I did when I went abroad was ask questions that I otherwise would have kept to myself so I was in a town a small town of Costa Rica called Aradia and I showed up I don't speak Spanish right so there's even more reason to to oh my gosh I could make a mistake and it could go really bad and I could be bumbling but I made a rule that I was going to ask if I didn't know where my classroom was I wasn't going to like sit with my piece of paper and

then try to work it out on the map I was going to ask a human and when it came time to figure out where there was a good restaurant or a good place to go out at night I was always going to ask someone and thanks to that habit as well as the friendliness of Latin people that extended my comfort zone and gave me a number of experiences of you put yourself out there something magical happens so that that is the easiest tip that I can give is one more sentence so when people ask me

like what what is something that I can do to work on my Charisma I would say you have dozens of interaction in today if you're in any sort of populated era you have an interaction with the Uber driver you have an interaction with the person behind the counter you have an interaction with the person who you get into an elevator with and there's usually a prescribed amount of social interaction that you have maybe it's hey maybe it's even less than hey the advice that I give to people is if you want to get started one

more sentence one more sentence than usual so as you get into the elevator and the normal sentence is what floor anything in addition to that what floor are you in oh have you lived in this building for a long time you know and all a sudden you get to know your neighbors because the person that is just the elevator person who you're putting them on floor three now has a name and every time it sort of uh compounds and expands and you get to have a wider Social Circle so that's just one piece of the

things that I would work on which is one more sentence with people uh but there's there's plenty more and I'm happy to dive into First Impressions and all that kind of stuff okay so first impr yeah the big thing that I got wrong and I see almost everybody get wrong and it's bad Common advice about First Impressions is that just the best way to get people interested in you is to be interested in them and what I found is that that is generally true but it ignores the the realities of status which is I'm sure

you experienced this with a lot of people come up to you they're very interested in you but that doesn't mean that they're going to make a good first impression on you it means that you might have compassion for them it might even means that you might feel love for them but it does not mean that you're going to want to follow up and spend time with them probably you've experienced I don't want to follow up with this person and spend time with them even though I see their sincerity of their interest and I've and I've

been on both sides of this right I've been the person who is so just so interested in you there's a few things that if you just do this before expressing your interest in somebody changes the whole game so fun trust respect if you and this can take 60 seconds or less can communicate that you are fun that the person can trust you and that there is something to respect about you and then you express your interest in that person it will completely flip the dynamic on its head so we can break it down please fun

there's a ton of ways to handle this right you can crack jokes you can do all sorts of things but the easiest way to add fun to an interaction is you take the first question that almost everybody asks you which is how are you right these are the gimmies that we just say fine good how are you oh there's a fire whatever and be more enthusiastic than fine I would always say be better than good so if somebody comes up to you and they say how are you doing you can be fantastic or wonderful or

great or ecstatic or electric and there's a whole separate conversation about how to make this real inside of yourself because I'm not asking you to paper over anything I think that was a mistake that I made early in my Charisma career of just too much fake it till you make it but if you can genuinely cultivate those feelings and share them that level of enthusiasm is fun crack a joke you got fun okay trust this is a lot of non-verbal stuff you know eye contact body language the way that you shake someone's hand but it

also comes down to if the person feels like you are trying to get something from them and there's a number of things that tip us off to this but one of these is when you over qualify yourself which is in direct competition with this need to establish yourself right so there's these we we want to establish that we're interesting people we have things going on that you might want to connect with but if we drift over into name dropping and selling we're going to alienate the trust so the place that I focus most on with

people is in most inter places that I've been how are you where are you from what do you do are like three of the most basic questions go to a college campus it's what's your major we all have these and you can think of them now if you're in the audience we have these things that we hear all the time and we probably have habitual answers to them yes and these habitual answers are usually not great yes M are so bad yeah I just remembered mine actually people come up to me and they say God

you've been so busy and then I'll say something like yeah always and then the conversation's over yeah yeah they've got they've got nothing to hook into or hook onto there so you're able to get away with that and one of the things that people do is they build a tremendous amount of confidence and power and then all of a sudden you don't you can drop this to a degree because people are still interested because they know you from Dragon Den or some other things but if you're out there and you don't have that yet like

I didn't when I was 19 and 20 or you just want to have more engaging convers ation and you want to bring in people that you genuinely connect with reverse engineer the conversation that you would like to have so you could one of I have six charismatic mindsets that I think about one of them is go there first in humanizing the interaction and so this can mean if you're in a group of people that are all really stiff and nervous because they don't know if it's okay crack the first joke be vulnerable first give the

first compliment like lead the interaction in the way you want to go because that's what everybody wants like we don't want to be suits we don't want to be roles in a company we want to be humans and that stuff is everybody wants that and whoever goes first becomes the leader okay okay so in your interactions you're getting asked are you busy so if you could go there first and do the thing that you're wanting them to do and work that into the answer of how you're busy or are you busy that is going to

lead the conversation the direction you want so as a for instance I don't know if this is are you busy you know I have been but one of the things that I've really been struggling with that I haven't figured out yet at this point is you know I'm having some relationship isses I'm having this or that the other thing but like sharing the real thing a level down beneath the surface level stuff that you're tempted to share with people is going there first and making it okay for them to do it and then you say

what about you versus they say hey uh how's it going you're so busy you're say oh yeah man been busy how about you they're just going to match you especially given your you know your power as the the leader of the company they they will just match what you do but if you go there first you give people permission to go deeper so a lot of people for instance what they might want is they want the thing that they care about is they care about their job they love what they do and they're really interested

or maybe they hate their job and they care more about their free time and their hobbies and the extreme sports that they do so in these questions of how have you been what do you do where are you from I have a worksheet in our course that helps people walk through what a good answer could be that would leave hooks for the person that is an extreme sports Enthusiast or does you know have an interest in that particular Niche that they're interested in to hook into but if you were to ask me where I'm from

and let's say that I want to connect with you in a number of different ways but the thing that I really want you to know is that I have an interesting business I could say I'm from Philadelphia and we're done oh cool I've been to Philadelphia or no my friend's brother went there is it cold in Philadelphia like these this is where we're going to go now we're on weather and sports which is where most conversations go but if I say you know I grew up in Philadelphia but I never really fit in there like

a lot of the people in that area wind up spending their whole lives within 20 minutes of where they were born and so I traveled throughout my 20s and lived a bunch of places but I now live in LA just because it's the right place for my business and I end there the next question that is coming from you is probably oh what's your business or where did you travel so if I give you a number of different options to hook into here you're going to take the one that you're most interested in M and

so what I would try to do in these answers with myself and what I advise people to do is take the three topics that you know you'd love to talk about like you'd love to talk about your travels you'd love to talk about your business and you'd love to talk about philosophy or whatever it is and find a way to just leave little crumbs in these common answers that give the right person the invitation to talk to you about that thing and this is something that I found really like small talk can suck it's very

draining to sit here and like how much more can I say about the WEA or local sports team I can't keep doing it yeah but when you do these sorts of things it uh man it opens up the opportunity for connection so much more quickly in interaction and I hate small talk yeah I really hate it I find it really draining I find it so fake and I I kind of want to get on to the real stuff um so you're saying that's how to do it to leave sort of crumbs in my response that

will send us down a more interesting pathway and conversation to really think through how do I and what do I want to connect with people over right it's not the weather and it's not the local sports team it is in my case I want to interact with people that uh are interested in the same sort of like YouTube space that I'm interested in that's one of the things beforehand I thought that I knew about people I like I could tell who that guy is I know I know what kind of life he has but when

you start leaving these Clues people surprise you the like the the types of connections that come from people that you wouldn't expect are I don't know another word other than like magical it's it's very special to see that the world is full of opportunities where once you saw it as I already know what's coming from this person it's just going to be a boring Small Talk conversation and to find that that person could be someone that you do business with or become very close to or winds up being the brother of someone that you date

is is very exciting to me there there's a real mindset shift in that like seeing the world differently as a set of opportunities versus this sort of like fixed thing that you just have to navigate yes and also there's a a playfulness that can be brought to it as well so one of the other things that I talk about is flirting with the world right so what I mean by this is that when you go out and you're flirting you tend not to be literal in your answers right there's there's a playfulness that is engaged

you're going to joke with that person and what what a lot of people do and I'm guilty of this all the time is when you're checking out at the store you're doing anything you are very literal in your answers can I help you with anything today can I get one other thing what floor are you on as you get in the elevator and if instead ofo floor three you say I don't live here I'm just casing the joint for rubber you know it's just like like that little stuff that is playful that is what people

are dying for we're just so many people are on autopilot and when you bring that playfulness that little flirtatious energy to men women alike things open up in in a very fun and exciting way does that come from confidence because i' I've noticed that i' I'd certainly flirt with the world more now that I feel like I have a greater sense of confidence that didn't have when I was 18 to 25 yeah I think it's Circle I think it absolutely comes from confidence when you feel good you bring that playful energy to the world and

I learned to develop confidence by there was a time of Faking it till I made it where I wasn't comfortable but I had this rule in my head I'm in the elevator I have to say the thing right now that's what I did and then the interaction went well and now I'm building these reps of good experiences where I'm seeing that my belief about the world is this place that I just had to make it through is not true there's fun opportunities everywhere I really want to um make sure I've got everything on this first

impressions Point as well is there anything else that I need to be aware of you talked about non-verbal cues and I mean there's so much information out there that says non-verbal cues are everything that they maybe nothing do you think they matter and what are the most important non-verbal cues when it comes to making a good first impression one one of the ones that I see is prey versus Predator prey versus Predator movement and prey versus Predator gesticulation so if you think of an animal that is a prey animal like a a little bird or

a little rabbit they're very like Herky jerky and they they Dart and you think of a predator you think of a lion or like this like sort of languid slow movement now you don't have to dial it up to Sleepy lion level but one of the things that you see with people that feel very afraid is that they Dart their eyes are very dirty the hand goes in the hand goes out goes back into the pockets very quickly a bit of slowness to your movements a bit of calm especially if you're an anxious person can

help a lot that doesn't mean you need to lower the energy but it just means you can slow things down a bit the other thing that I find is this is almost pre-ir impression if you're out at a social event right you're at a networking event you're at a bar I think a lot of people do not realize the intuitive sense that others have for what is going on around them in interactions they're not directly in and so what will happen and this is connected to the pray thing but not identical is that people go

out to a networking event and they feel very uncomfortable on their own shoes and so they're looking at their phone or they're standing by the bar and they're sort of looking around for something or someone to rescue them from their loneliness and when you can shift that to I am going to be comfortable where I am I'm going to find one person my friend and I would go out to the bar and the rule that we had was the most interesting place in this entire bar is the space between our noses right it doesn't matter

you can say whatever you want you could be like I'm terrified here I'm so scared I wish I could go home right now but we have to engage with one another it was remarkable how much easier it was to start conversation when it was started from a place of we're enjoying one another's company and being playful and having a good time here versus two of us just sort of like standing at the bar going like this looking around for around attention or for so yeah so those are two things one pray verse Predator movements and

two are you exuding this Vibe of I don't have it somebody else does that that people have a unconscious sense that that is happening around them and so making it a conscious point to I'm going to be cool in my own space when I interact with someone I'm not going to make them a stepping stone to another person that I'm more secretly attracted to or has the job that I want I'm with this person now and then I can move on that had a huge huge impact on the abil like First Impressions became easier because

of the pre first impression mhm I mean there's so much I wanted to to dig into there on the prey versus Predator thing what is it about slow movements that make someone appear to be higher status cuz cuz as you said it I immediately thought of the line and then you were talking about some little like rodent that's kind of like farting around and it's anxious that it's about to be eaten and then I thought of the line which is kind of just slowly moving and then I thought of business contexts where you've got the

leader in the room who is kind of sat back in their chair they're doing things in a more considered way and maybe the intern who's like dropping the paper and like yeah like hitting the glass accidentally and it's it's so interesting because it's so true yeah it's safety safety it's safety I mean prey animals are hunted and that's what you have to be head on a swivel if you're a prey animal you want to move slow you're dead it's over we're animals that are highly attuned to social status and so when we feel low on

on the totem pole we feel less safe and so one of the things that the ways that we exhibit that is we move more quickly we have our head on a swivel we have to be aware of everything that is going on we can't take our time because we don't at some level that mamalian or Reptilian Brain is telling us that we are unsafe in this environment or at least less safe than the leader who feels very slow another thing that you'll see in terms of status and people who feel are is the ability to

be seen looking at others and so one of the things that happens and this is I don't mean uh I can explain how this doesn't contradict the point about focusing on someone else but when you do turn your attention to someone else what you'll see the guy at the bar who feels uncomfortable or the intern do is they'll often look with their eyes but not with the rest of their body they're they're doing this sort of stuff because they're afraid to be seen looking but when you take the person who is more comfortable they will

turn their head and know sometimes their chest and their whole body towards others to and they can be caught looking because they're not threatening that other person they're not harming them they're not you know they're comfortable versus there's a fear of if they see me looking I'm in trouble right and so these are little I wouldn't say that you need to spend all your time focusing on these hacks but they work both ways so it's one thing to notice that but if you actually consciously go to the body I think this is one of the

fastest ways to influence how you feel like state in the moment instead of doing this and the prey darting and the sitting with the hands in the pockets right that that creates a loop of feeling uncomfortable so one of the first things that I would do when I was going out to a networking event or a bar or anywhere where I felt uncomfortable was dance floor because on the Dance Floor I can go and open up and feel more comfortable through my body because I'm signaling to my body as I expand my arms and dance

and wave them that I'm safe right and so it's a it's a two-way Loop so if you notice yourself at a network event or a bar or anywhere where feeling uncomfortable and you notice that you're doing this and you can say okay I can't go to my brain and make these anxiety go away up here but I can choose how I hold myself this is the Jordan Peterson stand up straight right it's there's there's this body Loop feedback that we get and if you do it by opening up your body language revealing your vulnerable spots

which are the parts that your veins it's your neck it's your inner elbow it's your hands right standing like this a little bit more open that tends and I can feel it now I don't know why I didn't do it at the beginning I'm a little bit Rusty jeez I feel immediately more grounded right I feel immediately more safe comfortable and like I can take my time in this interaction rather than having to get the answer right for you right for the audience like I might have when I was going like this it's I was

going to say before you pointed that out that it's really self-fulfilling like the intern who's on edge who's dropping the paper is then going to make certain behaviors which are going to kind of reinforce their insecurity and low status which is then might be pointed out they might notice it themselves which makes them feel [ __ ] again which makes them more on edge and Twitchy which is going to increase the probability that they conduct some kind of behavior which is and it's this downward spiral where you're like you feel stuck at the bottom of

that and you're saying that by influencing the things you've described you know moving a bit slower being expansive with your body you can start to trigger the loop from the other way you can start to make yourself feel safe if you feel safe you're more likely to do the higher value things which make you feel safe and you spiral upwards potentially yes yeah this is not an Insight unique to me Tony Robbins when at his events I don't know if you've gone they talk about incantations where one of the things that he does is prior

to going on stage and he advises people to do this before they have a big moment is he will like bang his chest and go and his Tony Robin's way and he'll have oftentimes a phrase that is like I'm here to inspire or like I love myself I feel wonderful and I would do this before I went out right I would before I got in the taxi before I went anywhere I would go I love myself I love myself I love myself and I would just build this physical body energy connection and it's real it

happens it it makes a dramatic impact on how you show up because oftentimes you only get 30 seconds right it's not a lot of time when you're sitting down in that interview before the person starts to form an opinion about you so going in with that that energy that is like look I approve of me and I'm going to have the body language communication that tells you that that's how I feel people often pick up on that you can think of interactions as two people who are storms of beliefs encountering one another and if my

storm of belief is I'm not really sure about this I don't really think I deserve this job and you probably shouldn't talk to me and your storm of belief is I don't know a lot about this guy but let's find out I'm going to win yeah and you're going to pick that up and you're go you know I don't think this guy deserves the job whatever but if the belief is I deserve to be here I love myself I can be comfortable I can be human and I'll be okay if this doesn't go the way

that I'd like that's that's what wins out in these it's it is the higher conviction belief that often bleeds through in interaction and becomes the the one that defines that relationship at least for that limited time in that context it's funny because I think about my non-verbal cues all the time I meet so many people in so many different contexts and a lot of the time I'm like tired um um I'm my my head has a million tabs open so I try and influence like how I'm showing up with like my body language and eye

contact and outside of the things we've discussed is there anything else that you think I can do to try and leave I don't want to be rude that's what I don't want to be I was going to say I want to be warm but there's something I want to be myself and I want I don't want to be rude accidentally rude mhm so you and you worry that you might come across rude yeah because I don't know you meet people like my my assistant Sophie she walked in here now hi she's just got like like

247 energy and I ain't got that yeah I'm not that guy and I'm not going to fake it yeah and I've never been good at faking it but is there anything else that I could accidentally be making people dislike me just with small things no I can say the areas where I felt most connected to you which is I think the opposite of rude rude is like I'm not interested in you as a person the areas where I felt most connected to you is where one of us again went there first and like said the

thing that was real it's the moments where you stop neither of us is trying to perform at all for the camera and there's still a sense of that the audience is there but yeah that's that's where I feel okay any rudess just no gone interesting and and when you say that I think about like everyday interactions and is there ever a situation where like going there first is a little bit too strong is what I would say so the the thought is the one that you have everyone has right it's it's no I can't because

other if they didn't have that thought they would have already done it right I will tell you a brief story that my brother reminded me of today as we were driving in I was like I need I need my Charisma stories and he said you can tell the one about me so your brother he's in the Green Room yeah yeah okay we went to a networking event and for whatever reason that day I was just in this zone of I'm going to be a professional because this is a networking event and the channel wasn't established

at this point and he came with me and so I'm going in there and I'm going through the line I'm filling out my card what's your name Charlie you know what do you do okay I'm getting my my information I put my badge on I walk through and he goes behind me and they say what's your name he says dragon and she says excuse me I said no no WR dragon on the card it's gonna be great and so he then starts a conversation with her and they're like just being playful and he puts dragon

on his chest and I'm going in trying to you know impress people with my professionalism MH and people were like what's up he's like Dragon here and he was a hit right he didn't he didn't have anything to do with the networking event he didn't have anything to do with the uh the context of why people were there but the interest that he got was so much immediately more than I was getting being the one that actually had the business that was somewhat related to the thing and so even I believe that these rules on

how we should engage are um set in stone and what think few people have done if you think of your entire life you're either hitting it perfect unders shooting or overshooting everyone's fears of overshooting but they spend almost all of their lives undershooting overshooting is in being too coming on too strong yeah and and that it's okay but like there's there's type one and type two errors right and if there's a perfect Middle Ground of like wow like I didn't that was a trauma dump on that person would be in overshare or like oh I

maybe shouldn't crack that joke at a funeral would be going there first type of a thing M we have less than a dozen of those usually in our life and we have hundreds and thousands of undershooting so what I'm encouraging people to do is take the risk of the overshoot because you're already missing like you're you're under what is available to you in terms of the potential to create connections and the question here is which I think informs all of this is is your goal to blend in get through and not make a splash or

is your goal what what is your goal and for me it's like I want to connect I want to connect with the people that would most connect with me and in order to do that I have to be willing to be seen okay so on the other end of this what are the mistakes people make that cause disconnection talking about yourself is that is that I don't think so what in what sense so like if you walk into a room and you immediately start talking about yourself is that going to be if you're over talking

good question it's it's about do people have opt-in points so are you are you stopping giving the person a chance to reopt into that line of communication so this is again one of the things we work on on those initial questions is um okay you want to you want to share your values early in the interaction but am I just going to give you my life story right I'm not giving someone a chance to opt in but if I make it three to five sentences and I say you know I grew up uh I grew

up on the west coast and it was perfect because there was surf every there everywhere and then uh I met my wife but you know she's super close to her family and I just wanted to be a family man so now I live in the middle uh of the country and whatever you give like three hooks that people can hook into and you're done that's fine but some people don't give a chance for anyone to step in and get a word in edwise so that's another piece that I think and I could also ask them

right if they surf or something yes exactly but also you will see that sometimes early in an interaction if you indicate these points of like people people will often comment on what you have to say they won't you don't need to ask them necessarily like if you give that thing that they like you often don't have to like they will jump in with the thing that connects to it so interesting you know throughout this conversation you've repeatedly made reference to the fact that connection happens at a deeper level but also the Paradox is that we

don't walk around offering the deeper level MH um which is what I've always figured out and like found out on this podcast is the deeper the conversation the more I feel like connected to the person yeah and yeah it's really interesting I was just thinking about interactions that I've even had today and you know like the person that I I spoke to in the gym would I have rolled up to them and what could I have said to them that would would have been God us past the fluffy small talk cuz I met someone in

the gym that I've known for Loosely known yeah and it was one of those interactions where they hey how are you you're in La now hey yeah where are you gonna live I'm like I don't know and then like so yeah fires did you are you okay yeah yeah and I just so so let's do this how where are you going to live I I think I even probably asked you or everyone's asking me because I posted on instagam take a person in the gym you don't know anything about them and I know context it's

going to be dependent on what you want to learn about them what what types of things do you wish you could connect over more and I know there's this sense of like whatever they want but like you clearly care about business you clearly care like what opportunities do you want to open up for yourself do you want to find a surf buddy do you want to find a what is it yeah so in that particular conversation I think because I'm kind of new here maybe what I would have been interested in is I actually really

wanted to know something about their professional life that I that they told me about previously but also I'm like looking for friends here yeah cool things to do people to see new networks amazing you got it so so it's where are you going to live be like honestly I'm not sure I'm looking for cool places to live cool places to go new networks of people what I should have [ __ ] said that yeah it's and it's so I think it's what we mentioned earlier but the thing that happens is that people try to get

through rather than connect and I think that informs a lot of the questions that people have they say yeah but couldn't it go wrong it's like yes it could but you have to consider that not connecting is also it going wrong like the number of chances that you meet to connect with your potential spouse potential incredible friend I don't want to be uh nightmarish or scary for people but like the amount of incredible people that have walked in and out of all of our Lives is saddening right because we didn't say the thing and we

it's like oh my gosh you guys would have connected so well if just one of you could have like put it out there the thing that you were interested in but it just doesn't happen 99% of the time time there's a certain individual listening right now who really wants to connect in fact they feel so disconnected and so lonely in their life and they're hearing everything you say but there's a barrier that has always stopped them adding one more sentence going deeper with the stranger and no matter how much they listen to this kind of

advice they still go through their life in this state of kind of getting through life not connecting do you have any idea a is that true like does that person exist and have you met them in your audience and be like what is step one to starting to break down that barrier because I think I even feel a little bit as you were speaking I was thinking yeah like why didn't I say that in the gym today like what is it about me that meant that I just tried to get through and get back to

the weights this it's like a bad habit or I think there's a number of things in your case and I've experience this I I don't know if you have this but um when you get into a position that is a lovely one to be in of relative power right like people want to come on the show they want to know what you're up to they maybe want to go to the parties that you're going to one of the ways to not to avoid having to constantly set and enforce boundaries is to shine less bright and

so I don't know if you feel this but I notice myself not following some of my own advice these days and when I reflect on why it's because if I say that I have a YouTube channel and they say how many subscribers and I say how many subscribers then they want my phone number then then they want my this and in order just to circumvent all of that uh you know yeah I like work from home you know I like I I will shine less bright and I realized this uh years ago when I was

doing breakdowns and I was doing all these famous people I'm like I'm going to do one of Justin Bieber because he was such a bright excited young kid and then I looked at him at the time he was 16 to 18 he was on Jimmy Fallon and he was so flat and I was like why is he so flat and then he cracked a joke and the audience it wasn't even funny it was God and so any if if you get to a position where any sort of output from you CS in this just wave

of attention and energy people often shut that down which is a sad thing and I want to stop doing that and people shut themselves down yes they shut themselves down because then you have to have boundaries and you have to tell that person hey I don't give out my Instagram or I don't want to trade numbers or you have to find a way to navigate disappointing other people that are interested and going having a deeper connection that you don't feel it with them does that happen with like beautiful people as well cuz I almost certainly

you know what I me I imagine they just get it all the time everywhere they're going people are trying to connect yeah well and I think you know in terms of things to watch out for I didn't realize this cuz I do think it's not necessarily a good thing but young women I think realize this as they hit puberty that there's going to be people interested in you that don't really want to get to know you right they're interested in you because you're beautiful they're interested in you for these other reasons same thing tends not

to happen with young men and so I got to 19 and I wasn't wanted in any of the locations that I was at right and so there was a lady's night but I couldn't get in there was like and so people were very honest with me I got direct clear feedback about the type of people that wanted to connect with me and if someone did it was only ever because they wanted the pleasure of my company there was not there was nothing to get from knowing me when things started to Boom I was not prepared

for the ways that people adjust and manipulate when they perceive that someone has power and so people entered my life that I thought liked me and I realized later liked my ability to provide a paycheck or my ability to do this and uh it was very sad for me it was really really difficult to experience but um as I withdrew and stopped making vide and uh said you know I'm not running the I'm not running this business my co-founder is going to take you know he's in charge of the paychecks from here on out the

people that almost immediately withdrew from me was I'm very grateful to have seen it but was unprepared for the uh transactional nature that can that can happen when when you start to accumulate power and I say that because if there's aect particularly young men but it's true of women as well just be aware that as you grow and hopefully become more powerful in the world the level of uh deception and the level of even just in in the lightest like people trying to please you and make you happy is going to escalate and you're going

to need to develop a discernment that I just never needed when I was in my young 20s to understand who's trying to manipulate you and get things from you and what's real yes to understand this the subtle difference between like who likes me for me and who likes me for these status things that I can am connected to or can provide and uh yeah I mean is there any such advice you can give someone to figure out whether they're being used or the relationship is authentic and real yeah well I can give some not to

do that's where I'm at today this is Niche but if you're a business owner be very careful about making a single I I made a single person my like point of contact to the business and that meant that any feedback that came from like the front lines of the business was coming up funneled through him and spoken to me and any like thing that I said to him was then distributed to the business and I wasn't doing enough direct connecting with people on the ground and what happened over a course of years is I learned

and I didn't find this four years is that I was being uh a generous word would be like there was some fudge of the truth and and then there were outright lies be very very careful about making one person your eyes and ears in any aspect of your life but I did that in the business and didn't you know touch base and connect directly with people and say hey is this how are you feeling is this true and I and I lost those direct connections and it wasn't required in a company of my size it

was just a a foolish novice entrepreneur mistake that I'd made happen so many times it happens a lot in business people listening to this now if you've got if you working in a business and there's a manager in between you and maybe the top of the business managers have a tremendous power to control narratives narratives yeah everyone wants power I would say I think that's a fair statement pretty much everyone wants power and we can Define whatever power means but I guess there's two paths to attaining power there's delivering value for people and being useful

and then there's what you described there which is is manipulating the situation so that you're perceived as being necessary mhm yeah and it's it's uh making sure that your name is on the project right there's in a group project there's there's always people that are doing the majority of the work and there's people that are making sure that they're presenting the most important piece or making sure that their name is on the project narcissists sociopaths some of some of the videos you've made on your channel before speak to this type of behavior yes what were

the things that you missed that are like characteristic of narcissist cuz I know yeah you've made videos about this subject where you analyze other interactions with other people but for someone who might not be aware of some of those subtle cues what kinds of things my co-founder and I had several conversations about this person where we said man and we had these dozens of times I wouldn't be shocked to find out that he was lying on his job application and we would just say that to each other and so if you find that there's just

a doubt that that you don't believe that somebody says that they were very successful in a thing and just doesn't look like it you know there's that phrase in in business which is is if there's doubt there's no doubt when it comes to hiring and firing I didn't Follow That So just pay attention to your doubts and if you need to write them down but it's the voicing of it in a weird way was a way of blowing off steam and not addressing the core issues so that was one thing and then I think the

last thing is it's this um I felt guilty verifying I felt guilty verifying his job application I felt guilty going to the guy that he said had offered him a job whose number I had and saying hey wanted to check on this because that would have been an indication that I didn't trust him and it was my way of saying I trust you I know you won't hurt me and maybe you can trust me that I won't hurt you too never mind that they were not reciprocal relationships but the reason that I'm so interested in

these sorts of things is because I had by the time I was 28 or 29 built the life that I dreamed of when I was 18 I had the girlfriend that I wanted I had more money than I dreamed of I had the dream job and it fell apart because these core things hadn't been addressed and when I say fell apart it wasn't like the world took it from me it was like my own ey fell apart in my ability to sustain them or it fell together thank you that's the truth no that's the truth

man is um I'm so grateful for the ways in which it broke down and I think there's many times in my life and when I've seen other people where they get fired or the thing doesn't work out or the first business fails and you're like oh it fell apart and you're right it's uh you get five years down the line it's like no man that that felt together yeah because if it wasn't you being your true aligned authentic self whatever that means then it wasn't real anyway it was something you were holding together and it

sounded like it was exhausting to hold that together yes unconsciously life shouldn't be exhausting to hold together so if you're if you're exhausted holding your life together in the relationships of people then it's not sustainable and it's not real yeah well I'm curious and you're taking business on this because I've since found business mentors that there's so many mentors that are like here's how to build your business so that you can sell it and the implicit understanding there is that this thing is a pain in the butt you don't want to have it and you'll

be happier when you can get rid of it and exchange for a lot of money and there's a guy Joe Hudson who I've mentioned before who talks about you know what if a billion dollar business was not a business that was valued at a billion dollars but it's a business that you wouldn't sell for a billion dollar the things that you got to do like if you had to sell it and you could never do that thing again you wouldn't take that deal and when you think how would I run this business if it had

to be my billion dollar business today what sort of things would I allow myself to do what sort of things would I cut out it's a total paradigm shift on business what an amazing question to ask yourself what an amazing question to ask yourself so the way that I heard that was if I wanted to run this business like a business that I would never be prepared to sell what the decisions I would make today MH okay so you'd get rid of the toxic people that are destroying your piece irrespective of how many clients you

might lose or the short-term net loss of that or how it might disgruntle people um you would probably set a pace that you could go at for 50 years and you'd probably disregard like metrics and growth numbers and stuff like that yeah you'd focus on doing work that you truly love not what the audience want not what the clients are paying you for but what you truly love and you'd work with stakeholders and partners that treated you with the the respect and the courtesy and the um the the same energy love curiosity fun that you

need to do this for 50 years so you like wouldn't work with [ __ ] yeah even if they were paying you a lot of money you'd say no to a couple of million dollars I guess that's my answer to that question yeah that's that's that's the answer to that question oh is it okay right I mean of course it is is uh it's the opposite of what you would do if you were building to cell which is I'm going to you know get someone else to be the frontman cuz I don't want to do

it I'm going to have them do the boring thing that I don't like it's yeah instead of no no no like why are we doing these things that we don't like you wouldn't tolerate tolerate there would be zero Toler and you may or may not wind up with a billion dollars but what I have found is as I lean into that that's where these leaps and breakthroughs are it's linear thinking to figure out how to please the audience and please other people in most cases but there's these exponential leaps that you make when you're like

what do I want to see in the world that's where you go from zero to one that's where you make the thing that has never been made because you want it yeah so it's a hard place to get to you've got to have I think life failure a few times before you kind of figure out what you've described there um and I can certainly rela in my life to to that so even when I think about this podcast I speak to Jack I think I had this conversation with Jack the other day I was like

in order for me to do this for like 20 years what am I going to need to do today what am I going to need to sacrifice today to do it for 20 years and I can kind of tell you like just a Topline thing is when a guest request comes on my list and it says they have this has happened they have 70 million followers and their stories there what they've done Etc and it's like this Steve we know that this is going to get huge numbers but I don't want to sit there for

two and a half hours and speak to this person because I have no interest in [ __ ] pop music in the South South America I know that the long-term decision to do the show for 20 years means in that moment I have to say no mhm because if there's multiple days in a row where I show up to this set and I sit down and I wasn't looking forward to it I'm going to end up where you said you ended up which is that feeling of like burnt out broken yeah lack of meaning what

gives you the strength to say no to The Superficial win when especially when there's like a this would be great for you wisdom of [ __ ] up so many times in my life when I did that burn and also being able to look forward at someone like Joe Rogan and watch his interviews where he talks about this and realizing that this principle of if you want to go far you have to play like long-term games and make long-term decisions and so now knowing what a short-term decision is versus a long-term decision and actually being

really aligned with Jack who's who runs this show because me and Jack are aligned on these things now quite intuitively and we've kind of learned together we've like made the short-term decision going [ __ ] that was a bad idea so you kind of you kind of build this sort of collective wisdom that the right thing to do for the long-term health of this show is having a set principles and I really wish people understood that because especially when the show gets big there's so much pressure to change I've got a good example I wasn't

going to say this but I think I should probably share it because this is the DI here and that's we me to be sharing our Diaries here on um the last episode we uploaded was a debate format with four guys on it and we're talking about the world and stuff it's the first time we've ever done that and I had a meeting with some people um the day after that episode came out and someone in the room was saying oh we should add a woman to the panel because the Optics are bad and I remember

what I said in that room I said we should never ever do something purely for Optics the reason why we should add a woman to the panel that we just did and this is something we will do in future is because we genuinely believe it will make the conversation better and I said to them and there was 12 of my teammates who work on this team in the room I said if we ever do stuff for Optics we slowly slip away from our integrity and it's there's a paradox there because you think the high integrity

thing to do is to like cater to Optics what things look like but actually the high integrity thing to do is to ignore virtue signaling and to do what's best for the conversation and I just reiterated in that room that like the reason why in the future we're going to make these panels more diverse is because we believe that it's better for the audience it's better for the conversation that's the only reason we'll ever do it and that's a prime example of learning over time that you've got to ignore virtue signaling you've got to ignore

because these things come and go what's virtuous today will be count like cancelable tomorrow and you've got to stay anchored to a set of principles yeah uh yeah we digress no we we do not at all that is the second six charismatic mindsets that I talk about that is the second which is I care more about my character than my reputation let's do that then what are these six charismatic mindsets so we talked a little bit about the uh the body language and the stuff and really I land much more in the the mindsets and

the ways of being and this is this is to me closer to the core first one is no matter what I will be okay and I feeling nervous on the way to this conversation that we're going to have I'm in the car getting over here I'm thinking do I need to prepare no matter what I'll be okay right I go in here and this is true in any social scenario we can often bring life or death Stakes to the interview to asking the girl out to whatever it is literally just saying the phrase in your

head yourself no matter what I will be okay has this calming clarifying thing that helps you focus on what you actually want to do and get out of this circumstance and helps you stop focusing on how do I be safe because how do I be safe is how do I do less how do I say less and just kill any chance of connection right so that's the first one second I care more about my character than my reputation it's very easy for would have been like for you in that moment to Oh shoot what are

people going to think the Optics of this are not good the leadership that you demonstrated by not just disagreeing but by revealing your character will pay dividends not just in how you guys handle Optics it teaches everyone on the team what matters which is fundamentally the the character what is the case not what looks like it is the case and you also were able to bring it back and I think this is the thing where we're talking about listening to criticism is like you didn't just hear it and reject it no we're not going to

have a woman on the podcast it was if we do that we do it for the right reasons right so I care more about my character and also the Optics of oh I screwed up now I have to fix it or I screwed up I have to dig my heels in I think a lot of this is going on right now with Elon Musk and and the solute that he did is I can't I can't say hey I made a mistake I can't say I didn't mean that by it I can't do any of that

I have to dig in because I don't want to be seen to be weak or I don't want to be seen to be this salute thing though I this is let's do it it I'm I'm right in this video yeah no so so Elon Musk if you've ever seen him on stage M he is a very eccentric totally a little bit awkward sometimes individual who goes up on stage and say it's like and literally seen videos where he's like and you know you on the red carpet I don't know if you saw that it's like

that red carpet uh walk that he did where he starts being going like like this yeah he's making weird faces this is this is him so I'm not defending him at all but if you have a lens of empathy and you look at the bigger picture and you also say listen this guy has no track record of not saying what he thinks so if he tells me that that's wasn't what he was doing in that moment he has no track record of like holding his tongue yeah and I I it's funny because I I consider

myself to be apolitical but one of the things that really turned me off when I saw the commentary around that was the left side of politics didn't seem to exert any um what's the word it was just all the reaction was so predictable I watched the video and and thought oh no he's just being El on mus that's what he does on stage just a bit wacky and then the whole like oh no he's a Nazi this is a Nazi salute I just thought I I find it to be disingenuous yeah well there's a ton

here politically I think this is why the left loses elections yeah because there's so much winning there's so much happening that you could critique today Trump launched a meme coin you know what I mean like there's like you could speak on so many things and to put the focus on this is why they continue to lose elections in the United States of America because I agree with you I don't I don't see any reason to believe that this is a hidden uh reveal of elon's Politics as regards the Third Reich at all it's like the

guy's a weird dude who moves weird and he literally afterwards said my heart goes out to you and his response to it on Twitter which is Complicated by the mass media right because there's I'm going to make this video too the ability to say sorry in personal relationships is fundamental and critical and if you can't own your mistakes and apologize to someone you will erode every relationship that you ever have because you will make mistakes and if you can't repair them they just it's like a bridge that never gets any maintenance it doesn't work do

you think he should have said sorry this is the question when we're talking about a couple things mass media and then I think there's a there's a space between sorry and that wasn't my intention and instead what he did was cuz I I think I think what he should have said was that wasn't my intention what he said instead was he made a bunch of uh puns about like different Nazi stuff like random things uh but do I think he should say sorry no I don't think he should say sorry if he said sorry can

you imagine the mainstream media exactly oh my gosh exactly so this is the problem I'm going to make this video which is if you look at the most this is this is tragic the way that we have culturally ruined saying sorry like with our media because if you look at the most powerful men Andrew Tate Donald Trump Elon Musk they all got the memo never apologize never ever ever it doesn't matter what you did never apologize and what you get as a result more power right it it like because when you do say sorry even

if it's appropriate even if it would have been appropriate in a private circumstance to do that the outcome in the media Loop if you look at um you could take someone going back to like Aziz anari who had a me too situation where the girl was unhappy with how the date went but it was all consensual but she felt pressured by him and he went on like very deep heartfelt apology destroyed you know end of his show completely over for him years later people look back at that story with a different cultural lens and go

that okay I yes you're sorry for that of course that makes sense because that's that's the appropriate response is I'm really sorry I didn't that wasn't what I wanted that wasn't my intent I didn't want it to go that way um or I didn't want you to feel that way as well and that human response translated to the mass media is so destructive to your career which is it's really tragic because that's the type of thing that you would want to have two people hash out and find resolution to themselves but doesn't appear to be

possible in in um Global media today it happens on both sides it's the right mischaracterizing the left the left mischaracterizing the right and I especially through this election cycle I just saw over and over again because there someone who genuinely believes when I'm at home alone and I'm watching these videos genuinely believes that I'm apolitical I find ver I find good things on both sides I find things on the left that I think that's that's um that's that's correct and I find things on the right especially as it relates to some things around business that

I think okay that's I think that's the best thing and I look at both sides I think objectively and I'm saying I think because I never really know my own biases and I think you're both lying about each other mhm and this is the kind of world we've gotten into now where as you say it's like there's no there's almost like there's no hope for truth anymore it seems do you own a business or do you work in marketing if that's you listen up for a valuable opportunity from our show sponsor LinkedIn I'm an investor

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the wrong audience and start targeting the right crowd through Linkedin now and because you're part of my community LinkedIn is offering you a $100 credit for your next campaign head to linkedin.com diary to claim yours now that's linkedin.com diary and of terms and conditions apply and only available on LinkedIn ads is Trump charismatic the most charismatic yeah so if we interpret Charisma as the ability to succeed based on force of Personality right if that's one view of it the ability to influence and succeed you have to give it to people that you might not agree

with and Donald Trump absolutely gets that so does Alexandri kazio Cortez for the record right these people that are not there for their technical prowess but are there for their ability to speak definitely I think when I've what I've heard is that he's likable in person like a lot of people that meet him like him and he has this thing that I haven't totally identified that drives the left crazy but it needs to be rather than being demonized I think it needs I want to explore it I want to understand what it is is he's

like very tough to stay mad at in the sense that what he did he he's repeatedly in his base forgiven for things that would have been upsetting to them and would be upsetting if any other Republican said or did the things that he does there is a relationship I think that he has with shame and so if you look it's like the first debate that he ever did boom here comes the question you call women fat pigs you know this is career Ender right here what are you gonna say you've called women you don't like

fat pigs dogs slobs and disgusting animals your Twitter account only well the audience erupts and Megan Kelly can't get a word and and it was an entire campaign of that like Teflon nothing sticks to him and so you don't I don't you don't have to like it for there to be something meaningful there and I actually want to go back because I think the most impressive thing that he's done is not win the presidency I think the Democrats fielded some less than excellent candidates but my God the way he took over the Republican primaries was

insane because if you go back and watch those debates which I currently am the first time the first time I watched it entirely against him he doesn't have an audience on his side there is no one that is on his side and to watch him go down the line take out Jeb take out Ted take out Marco and win the entire audience Blow by blow is fascinating to me you're someone that analyzes this yeah so what did you because I've watched all of those debates in fact I've watched them so many times there's Republican debates

with like Jeb and his weak energy and um I can't remember what he was calling Ted Cruz it's like Lion Cruz or something lion Ted yeah lion Ted I've watched all of those but you watch it and you go this is atypical Behavior this is not how to be a president what is he doing right there I think that is the thing he's like he is him through and through like there's not a crack in him and so many times you this is uh when people criticize you or criticize anybody one of the things you'll

see is let's say that there's a comedian and they're on stage and somebody's heckling say you can't tell that joke that's bad if you crack in that moment more of the audience say o I don't know if he should have said that but when you double down and triple down and quadruple down and endlessy down you actually take more people with you and this guy doesn't crack he anytime he's attacked I don't think he has defense in his repertoire like every time it's offense so whenever somebody comes at him he doesn't respond he barely responds

that's not true he goes you should see what he's doing you know it's always always offense he's willing to brawl in those situations and I think you we are animals there is a especially in that Republican primary with people like Jeb there's a simple thing of like oh this guy just owned that dude right he just completely made him seem like a child who was interacting with an adult like as he whimpered away or trailed off this is something that I teach people is when you're speaking just as a matter of habit and you can

you can break this rule once you've established it but if if you're a shy person finish your sentence before you let someone cut you off find a period and then the other person can jump in but if you're but if we're talking and you jump in at and I just s Trail away it's has this sense of fragility weakness and it encourages people to speak over you if you look especially at the first debate the people that he was arguing against got run off constantly and they wait they hoped that the moderator would bring them

back into the debate and it's not ideal that politics works like that but it it was it was a bludgeoning game it was just like he makes these people look weak in front of them as he as he dictates the pace and what's going to happen and he's not listening to anybody and the audience starts lining up behind him it was yeah I have to go back and the video will have much more precise moments of this but that is what I've seen is just I've started to compile things so that was the second that's

the second of the Charisma we're gonna do this number three imp well so I'm glad that we're doing it in this order because it gets the caveats out of the way which is the third one is I have impeccable honesty and integrity MH and you can see how exactly what we were talking about is like well not really there's there's ways in which power moves not always following honesty and integrity but when I think of that deeper form of Charisma the kind we like Socrates Jesus you know like the the the people that are not

just charismatic for a time but are charismatic forever and we look to as Paragons of who we want to be and have this leader ship quality that is not just transactional but moves people to become better versions of themselves which is ultimately what I aspire to and I suppose I've used Charisma in two different terms one is can you influence and the other is do you awaken the best in people if we're using that second term I am honest and I have high integrity is fundamental to that because what I found is that even if

you tell small lies for instance you're running late you text your friend I'm on the way not on the way you got to brush your teeth you got to get ready um you train this learning in yourself that is sometimes I lie sometimes I'm not to be trusted and when you lie sometimes you hurt your ability to speak with conviction all the time because there's some part of your brain that is going am I telling the truth am I saying the the real thing because sometimes I don't and so it it influences Your Capacity to

influence with conviction and for people to know that you stand by your belief what's really interesting um is something exactly what you've said I I noticed in a friend of mine um and I had to say we're really great friends and um we've been friends for a long long time but I can't trust you because I see you telling small lies to other people that's so brave of you which makes me think that you tell when you speak to me I have to figure out what the truth is and this is a this is a

this is something which I think ties into point three here which is If You observe someone willing to tell tiny lies to other people even exaggerating stories knowingly when you know the truth you know that X didn't happen you go oh my God maybe the things they tell me as well aren't yep true yeah so it erod it erods it in all different places one of the things that I didn't catch early on that you just brought up was I sometimes had like there were things that I wouldn't say like I wouldn't have that conversation

with a friend I wouldn't bring that to them and that is a lapse in Integrity because that's look I have this opinion I have this feeling I you're someone I care about but I'm not going to say it to you because I don't want to create friction or I don't want to do this I'm not going to lie to you about I'm not going to tell you I trust you implicitly but I'm just not going to bring it up it took me nine years to get to that point with this person it's hard it's very

hard but when you do that God the it is such a deep form of love it is such a deep form of respect and it respects the deepest part of that person which is I know that these this these are your behaviors but there's a you in there that is deeper than these habits that you have and I want to speak to that person because I want you to know that I would like to connect with you and I would like to trust you but I can't because of this I think that is an aspect

of friendship that is often overlooked which is you've got your friends that you have fun with you've got your friends that celebrate you you know which friends do you have that will lovingly pull you aside and tell you these sorts of things there are usually vanishingly few and when you get them if you're someone who watches this show probably it's deeply appreciated especially when it's done in a loving respectful way so when you can be that for someone else it's like it's yeah it's it's a relationship maker but you're right in what you said earlier

I have to be the one that leads with it what's that phrase you used go there first that's the six one yeah so number four so number four um I don't need to convince anyone of anything interesting yeah so a lot of times we think I need this girl to like me I need to make this sale if this employee joins the company it's going to be great you know I need I need this particular individual to like me all the tips and tricks and mindsets and whatever it is that we're talking about today I

hope you take broadly to your life to increase the percentage to increase the odds that are something good but with any particular individual you do not want to drop into convincing them you want to live invitation to people there's an invitation to connect there's an invitation to sell I'm willing to go there and tell you more about the product I'm willing to share more about the things that I care about but when you get stuck on convincing people they feel that there's something missing in you that needs something from them right and when you do

that particularly with loose connections it's very alienating now there are times when it's this isn't about convincing where it's appropriate in a relationship with like a husband and a wife to communicate clearly your needs this doesn't mean you convince them but it means you do state what you're wanting and needing in the relationship but there is like convincing is when you won't drop it when you won't put put it down that you won't accept someone's answer as it is and much more important than convincing is filtering and this is you know you could have tried

to convince everyone in your initial friend group that they should all be entrepreneurs they should all do this and you'd still be there today working on getting the next person to agree you have no businesses and no podcast but when you stop trying to convince and you reveal yourself make invitations I'm going this way who would like to come with me I'm selling this product who would like to buy it yes I'm going to learn how to talk about it in a compelling and interesting way that speaks directly to your problems but I'm not going

to convince you so much more powerful this is like a pretty incredible sales tip I was thinking about even on marketing copy when you're trying to sell something if you're trying to force it down someone's throat versus inviting them if they're the right type of person for it to give it a try and it's the long game too like the short game is I need to make rent this month I need to make a sale and we all have situations in our life where we feel that pressure but if you build your business or your

relationships from this level of I'm not going to anybody the sustainability of them is so much better CU now you don't have relationships that require you to be like come on come out tonight you know you want to you want to do that you have people that opt in when they want to and can step aside when they don't and your relationships flow much more organically when you drop the convincing with a without you energy yes people talk about that L yes yes Invitational yeah invitation energy so the fifth uh is that I proactively share

my purpose and I think this this podcast like sets people up to do that in an excellent way but this is where I talk about early in the interaction there's so many times where we just don't talk about what we care about we talk about the small talk we talk about the weather the baseball team making sure that you are sharing with people the things that you care most deeply about and that you're here to do is so powerful so high Charisma I I believe High Charisma if you think I don't know if you remember

the show but it was very influential to me there were these guys that Buried Life a long time ago when MTV used to run TV shows and they were guys who had this their own bucket list and on every episode they would go scratch an item off of their bucket list and at the end they would help a stranger in the street they would say what's an item on your bucket list and they would do that with them and in their second season one of their bucket list items was play basketball with Obama and so

they walked around Washington DC and just said hey we we have this thing we're the Buried Life we want to play basketball with Obama we're trying to prove that you can live your dream can you help and they just went bang bang bang down the line and within like 3 days they're in a senator office right just from sharing this is what I'm doing this is what I care about can you help they didn't have anything to exchange didn't have anything other than the participation in a dream and when you are connected to your dream

like the real one not the one that's like I want to make enough money like but the one that is oh my God that's like I want to prove to people that anything is possible and it's real people like to participate in that they like to give help in order to do that so what wound up happening is that the Senator reached out they set up a meeting and Barack flaked he didn't he flaked he didn't show he had something come up so they aired the episode and they never got to play with him except

episode airs barack's in the white house with MTV on in the background and he sees these guys the Buried Life talking about how they want to play basketball with Obama and he contacts his Aid he says why haven't I play basketball with these guys yet and the same Aid who had hurt he said well we had something come up that day we couldn't do it he says get them out here' and so they went and they played basketball at the White House with Barack Obama and it came from just sharing their purpose with people is

that what manifestation is I think if manifestation is just thinking happy thoughts and waiting for them to happen that to me is is wishful thinking but yeah if it's putting your energy and your intent and your request for support behind the thing that is most important to you like that's that's the reality of manifestation and I think why a lot of people like Conor McGregor you know when they when they hit these places they talk about the power of manifestation I think are often misinterpreted because it's not just seeing it or thinking about it it's

putting your full life force behind it reaching out asking for help and contributing your part of the pie as well I love that yeah I love that it's really really important number six number six we've said this one before I go first in humanizing the interaction humanizing the interaction yes which is to say whenever you're with a group of people there is an expected social Norm right and it is usually less than people wish that it was it's the thing that you described earlier is I wish that my employees would get to what's really going

on and it's the ability to be the first one like I told the story about my brother to crack the joke about the dragon name tag right and that that made everybody in the event funnier they now they all want to C jokes and they want to be playful it's the ability to give a compliment first sometimes people are afraid that it'll disrupt their status if they're too complimentary and we did talk about how at the beginning of an interaction it's useful to to establish fun trust and respect but then feel free to pour it

on right uh compliments uh and then vulnerability right going first sharing the vulnerable thing there's a fine line of course between trauma dumping and just outpouring without checking if the other person is with you and wanting to go there with you but yeah to to dive into the thing that is unsettled in you or that hurts or that you're working on and you're not sure about man we go there first it's like the room transforms around that it's like everyone's like oh me too yeah I'm also struggling yeah I also wish we could laugh more

yeah I also really I love that person's sense of style but didn't want to be weird and say so so when you go first in humanizing the interaction it is it is the essence of leadership sure sharing your imperfections mhm I saw this in one of your videos um that's kind of what you're talking about there right it's being willing to show The Chins in your own armor yes it is I think a lot of people like me have an idea that Charisma is looking like someone else that they admire it is and and they

don't know that person's internal dialogue right they don't know all the internal questioning is going inside of them and when instead you can start with where you are which so people will ask me how do I deal with anxiety and one of the things that I've said and I've done it a handful of times on this podcast is speak to it like I felt nervous when I was coming in here like if the thing comes up inside of you and it feels like you can't say it give it a risk say it it often creates

a depth of connection that that you wouldn't be anticipating what about humor being funny being funny so we haven't talked about this but there's um I think about charismatic types of people the five types that I think of are high conviction authentic funny empathetic and energetic and so basically High conviction are people that they're that belief storm that when they encounter you they just win that's Conor McGregor like he's 19 years old pimple-faced guy saying he's going to be a champion of the world without a waiver in his eye Steve Jobs the story of uh

Mike Scully who was one of his chief officers who came and worked for him I don't know if you're familiar with it do you know what he said to him what' he say so they're having a meeting and scully's not going to join and he says do you want to sell uh want to sell flavored sugar for the rest of your life or do you want to come with me and change the world and scoty was at Pepsi at the time yeah he was a Pepsi and so he says G to yeah and just this

this belief that I'm going to change the world and this solidness behind it that's high conviction uh Donald Trump is high conviction right guy when he loses election isn't lose elections right it's a level it's a level of certainty that he's goingon to win that is just next level so that's one type of Charisma um it's incredibly powerful there's downsides to it it can be difficult to integrate feedback and I think you've seen that with like Conor McGregor you know it's it's uh when you develop High conviction it's also really important to have some areas

of your life where you're able to listen and we're able to integrate feedback anyway there's the authentic type this is I think Trump has a degree of this as well this is number two right number two um but the way that I'm it's a different kind of authenticity I suppose than Trump which is I trust this person exactly like to say what they think in front of me whether I like it or I don't and I think Joe Rogan got big off the back of this this was this was the like if Joe disagrees with

that guy he's not gonna be rout but he's you're G to get you're going to know about it right uh he is going to have his comedian friend on that he wants to have on because he wants to have him on and when you do authenticity over a period of time it creates just unshakable trust like I've seen this person do things that could be damaging to our relationship and just continue to move forward so I know that they're not trying to please me with their behavior and I can trust the things that they say

and I can trust the things that they do and I can rely on them I feel safe to rely on them that's the authentic type third type is funny these are these are your comedians these people are just fun to be around like you hang out with them they're cracking jokes the whole time they bring a levity everyone else is talking literally and they're going to bring in something that is just non literal so any comedian is going to fit this you're Kevin Harts you're you're whoever take your pick empathetic to me Oprah is the

Paragon but I think you have you have become the Oprah of the podcasting World in many wayu that's a massive compliment but empathetic people are they do really really well oneon-one and they they help other people to feel seen right they ask a question with a sincerity that makes the other person share the thing that they might not have shared in many other groups and we all deeply want to feel safe to share ourselves but we don't because we're in louder groups or all different sorts of things so when we get in contact with an

empathetic person they might not talk very much but man do we leave liking that person like oh we had a great conversation we need to do that again interesting uh and then the last one is your energetic type this is probably the easiest one to add I think of early Will Smith I think of the way that people walk onto walk onto talk shows where they would come onto Jimmy Fallon dancing onto the stage or something like that this is an individual who may not be very witty with their humor but they make people smile

because the energy that they bring to an interaction is just like two degrees higher than you would expect okay right so it's he doesn't need to be like funny haha can crack a joke but the guy who's first on the dance floor at the wedding is like you know committed to the thing that's energetic and I think Jack Black is someone who has a comat he is funny like he can crack a choke but the energy that he brings to everything he does is what sells it so this comes from commitment to the bit right

you don't like start off dancing like this and then look around and realize nobody likes it and stop yeah it's if you're if you're able to sustain a level of energy enthusiasm and positivity that is one or two degrees higher than the people in the room at first there's like I don't know and then they they join in because everybody wants to relax and dance and feel better or at least to witness people doing that and when it's committed that's when it really really works so when I think about these five charisma ypes that you

talk about you could be several of them and you could potentially be all of them yeah so someone could be high conviction authentic funny energetic and empathetic sure and is that like the Holy Grail that's like the singularity where Universe explodes no you're right you could be you could be all of these I do find that conviction and empathetic tend to move in opposites of one another like I wouldn't expect Conor McGregor to like hold space for me very well uh so they they're but that's not required right you can have a degree of conviction

Obama he struck me as being high conviction at times yes we can yeah and also empathetic when he cried on the stage after the Sandy Hook thing I think he's a great example of of those moving up he's also authentic he's funny yeah energetic I guess I mean he was he riled people up he I mean he's a generational Talent as a politician he's yeah so he's he's definitely next level that's the other thing I've started to look back at some of the president that we've had and we've had some Statesmen that have been you

can have your opinion on them but when I look at the people that have won they're they're the Charisma candidate in a lot of the cases isn't it crazy I don't think it's that crazy that's the thing we we tend to overlook it and then pretend that we live in a world based on uh rubric Merit as opposed to this is literally a popularity contest how did this person make me feel yeah how do I feel when I'm around them or how do I feel when I witness them on stage do I believe that I

can trust them without ever having had a one toone conversation so Obama's he's a Charisma freak he's he's incredibly High Charisma what you just said there just goes to highlight how important these skills are because if you can rise to the top of society and become the leader of the Free World by mastering Charisma yeah like Dave at his job or like me as a podcaster it just goes to show that like talent and Merit and skills and maybe even my education are secondary to my ability to make people feel a certain way I think

in most I think let me see if this is true certainly true in LA to to a ridiculous level but even in the industry that I was in which was Consulting I wound up getting off cycle raises uh preferential treatment though even decades later I feel strange saying it on camera and it was like I said there was there were better analysts than me there were guys that I lik that I went to to help me with my work and it was not because I was the best analyst it was because I had established relationships

with people that liked me and wanted me to do well and it's obvious what is nepotism other than familial connection right and so if you just remove the family from it that's Charisma that's this person cares and wants me to do well and likes me but it's not nepotism it's something else it's it's a charismatic connection that you have with that person health is a huge Focus for me in 2025 and I'm not just talking about eating bright and exercising I'm talking about my recovery too I'm halfway through 60 workouts in 60 days and to

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code Steven 10 for 10% off your membership head to zoe.com now how do I use this idea of Charisma and body language and interpersonal skills to improve my prospects in work whether that's in an interview setting for a new job or if I'm looking for a promotion so the first thing that I always thought about with interviews and trained people to think about was the interview does not start when you land in the room with that person who is got the piece of paper in front of them with your resume starts when you leave your

house if you're taking an Uber you need to talk to the Uber driver right right you need to get warm you need to get comfortable you need to get those vocal cords moving you need to be dynamic when you enter the building if it's a large building and has a security guard one more sentence remember hey how's it going you see a lot of Fresh Faces in here you know yeah hopefully this is not the last time you see me that type of a thing it just makes you feel a little bit more comfortable instead

of reviewing whatever technical stuff that you think you need to know that needs to be dropped before the interview that's either in there or it's not like 15 to 30 minutes in advance then you go upstairs there's a secretary same thing there's other candidates same thing by the time you sit down across from that person you're warm you're ready to go and you're not starting from zero in order to be an engaging human because there are going to be those initial questions did you get in all right did you do this just a little bit

a little bit extra and it's going to be attuned to the situation but it'll come through and you've opened a couple of tabs on the way here right exactly exactly like how'd you get in and be like yeah I read I met Rick at the door he's awesome right like that's that's GNA help so that's the number one thing and then in interviews there's a you don't know what questions you're going to get asked but if you can take what you're going to get asked and put it into a story format and have a beginning

middle and an end that has like an up down up sort of curve to it and what I mean is that they're going to say tell me about something that you really struggled with in your career and if in advance you have thought through your career and you have the three big moments that happened to you which is you took over this project you quit this job and left to this one and you did this other thing and then you backwards figure out the story of those and so the story has this agitating you know

it's got the you establish that I was working at this company and then there was a problem and then you agitate the problem it was really bad and no one could solve it no one could to figure it out and so I did X Y and Z and as a result it turned out really well and then this other thing happened you get three to five of those things that you know are your core stories you have no idea what questions are coming but I promise you you're going to slot five things into it so

you don't need you will not be surprised in the moment if there's a question that you haven't prepared for or heard because probably there's a story when it comes this is the fit portion of the interview that you can just you have your story ready and it demonstrates any of the values that you think this company wants which is I'm tenacious I work hard I know the uh industry and I can work well with people that's built into your stories um and then one tip is that at the end of an interview there's always that

moment where they say do you have any questions for us and what I've seen seen sitting on the other side of the table is people either ask a question they don't really have because they feel like they're supposed to um or they say no I don't have any questions and it's just a missed opportunity and so this one I have to give credit to my co-founder uh he came up with and this is one of the things I did not anticipate I got the most positive responses like I got the job because of this question

type of a thing and the question is okay so let's say that this interview went really well and a year from now I got the job and you're looking back what would I have had to have done in order for you to feel like it was a good decision like what things will I have had to have done in that in that role and so typically the person goes um I like that that's a really good question and it does a handful of things one you've gotten them to imagine the interview going really well and

them hiring you right and then second they're going to lay out for you exactly what you need to do in the role to Excel and that is something that every boss wants it's like I want you interested in knowing what I need from you in order to do a good job and you can take that same principle and you could bring it into conversations if you want to get a raise sooner than you think you were going to to go in and say Hey you know I'd like to get a raise you can make it

clear I'd like to do it faster than usual but I want to make sure it's totally worth it for you so six months from now or eight months from now in order for me to get this raise what would I have had to have done for it to be a no-brainer obvious to you that this was valuable and then they will go and tell you the things that you could do and if it's it's a company that says no you can't maybe you don't want to work there but they'll just give you the Playbook and

then do those things keep up with that person and you're now off track for promotions right you're not just doing whatever they say and the Bummer is you might have done those things anyway but if you don't have that conversation in advance they're not going to give you a raise in most cases so interesting because this could be applied to like anybody in any role that is selling anything I'm thinking of a personal trainer who meets their client on the first day and says six months from now what would I have done to have made

you happy or I'm thinking of you know marketing Industries agencies turning to their clients at the start and saying if we're still working together in 12 months and you're really happy what would I have done yeah and they'll lay out exactly how they want to be treated and their expectations yes yes so you can meet and exceed them yes yeah and it shows that you care in that in that initial moment you mentioned something earlier on which um you said uh you were in a South America and you thought your life was going to be

focused on figuring out how to pick up women yeah what are women attracted to in your opinion I know this is somewhat stereotyping and generalized but are there anything that as a as a man I could uh do to make myself more attracted to a woman and vice versa when I see men approach women particularly in the US every culture is different I've lived in a number of different places there's that moment where they're just sussing out does he feel like he has a right to speak to me or not and sometimes they're not immediately

warm and by immediately I mean in the first 5 seconds and there's a difference between the guys that I've seen get more comfortable and they just ride that 5 to 10 to 15 seconds out and then the women are laughing and the guys that take that first initial bit of she didn't initially like love everything that I said and then they go okay and they walk away so conviction is a huge huge piece of it I think another big element is that a lot of guys come in with just man they they have these boring

habits and I don't think they can conceive of what it's like to be a woman and get asked the same boring thing 10 million times and this is true on dating apps and it's true in the bar so on dating apps it's pay right or something like that in a bar it's do you come here often it's what is your major or something like that so having any sort of initial line that is just not that right make it true you don't need to tell a fake story but the one that I fell back on

in so many different social circumstances was hey I don't think I've met you yet I'm Charlie and the one the reason I love this is one it's portable it can be a house party it can be a bar it can be whatever but unspoken in that is that I'm the type of person who knows a lot of people here which I didn't say that yeah it's true but it comes through in that it's like I'm the man that is I'm The Man about town like I know different people here um so that was always just

an easy one to have and I think to have that in your back pocket is very helpful but in terms of what they want the first thing is just general human attraction and this isn't like I want to sleep with you I want to marry you it's just do I want to engage in conversation with you do you have an interesting story do am I excusing myself at the first minute to go to the bathroom first chance I get H is she filling in gaps in conversation with her own contributions or do you have to

carry the entire load yourself that's how you know if you have that basic human attraction doesn't mean that she likes you or wants to be with you just means that she's down to converse and interact with you the second thing that is probably one that most guys miss is Do You authentically Have and Have you communicated to her that you have standards Beyond her being beautiful and for most men this is just a no this is this is unfortunately if they look back on their lives and they go okay has there ever been a time

where I was physically attracted to someone and she did something that made me go okay I'm not interested anymore whether it was be rude to a waiter or unkind or cold or just not have fun in the way that I would like to have fun which doesn't mean she's a bad person just mean she's not a match for me so many men especially when they're younger don't have standards they they have that one standard so the weird thing about that is it feels like oh well if I have a standard I have a smaller group

of people that are going to work with me but actually women want to be liked for more than their looks people want to be appreciated for their inside for who they are as a person and if you can't feel and communicate that you know oh man like I often go out I don't meet people that I have as much fun with as you you're so funny or like I love how affectionate you are like like most people wouldn't come on to the dance floor with me we're the only ones out here or whatever it is

if you can communicate to her that you have a standard that she is hitting and that is making you aware that you're a match for her it shifts That Power Balance from she's on a pedestal because she's beautiful and I'm going to pursue her the whole time to genuinely you come in and you're actually filtering for these things so you will be subconsciously wanting to find the person who's going to go cut up the dance floor with you or trying to find the person that is affectionate as opposed to the person who is a bit

colder is there an element this as well where people will [ __ ] test you like they will test to see if you have standards yes because if men and women so I will subtly because I heard about this thing called [ __ ] testing where like someone will subtly mistreat you to see how you react yeah and if you react in that moment and you just kind of accept it and tolerate it they'll therefore treat you in the future in the same way but also they they will be less attracted to you and viewers

lower status whereas some you she might show up 45 minutes late and if you're still sat there mhm then that in of itself is showing that you'll kind of tolerate anything and that she's or he is higher standard higher status than you yeah I at the beginning of one of my relationships that wound up being a multi-year relationship but uh we were just sort of getting started and I remember we had plans to meet on a Sunday night and I had been very amenable up until this point she' canceled and I said no problem you

know canel no problem and I saw what was happening I'm breaking my own rule I'm being I'm moving plans in order to make space with her and so we have a thing Sunday night it's 900 P p.m. we're supposed to meet at 10: she calls me and says that sorry I can't come I'm with my family and I'm G you know I just can't make it also unfortunately this week you know I have this thing on Monday and this other thing Tuesday and then I have work Thursday Friday night so the only way that I

can see you this week is is going to be Wednesday night and I had earlier that day made plans to go out with my friends on Wednesday night and though it was a challenge for me I thought about this earlier and I said oh that's a bummer then I don't think I'm going to be able to see you this week she said what what do you what do you mean I said I I have plans on Wednesday well what what then we're not going to be able to see each other and she starts getting upset

and nervous I I don't know what to tell you I I just am not free on Wednesday okay let me call you back and she goes she calls me back in 15 minutes okay I'm going to come over oh my God that you just reminded me of so many investment conversations I've had with ERS who pitched me their business and email me and go Steve we've got a million pounds left in this round you can put the million in but we need to know in 3 days time because we've got so much interest and I

remember one over the Christmas break where I said don't worry about it I can't I can't give you an answer in three days I take two weeks to speak to my team do some analysis do diligence I come back two weeks later and I go we're not interested MH is there any way you might be interested please as I've just a you told me there was three days for me to make a decision at first then I told you I didn't want to do that I took two weeks I came back and said no and

now you're chasing me yeah and it's so interesting how but you can't the problem with this as advice is it has to be true yes this is don't play I mean games okay you can at first I understand you're 18 you've got nothing on your social calendar you technically are available every minute of the day to be with this girl that you would really like to be with the advice is often just say no that you can't hang out with she does it which I think is very confusing instead fill your calendar you like start

to build your life outside of this thing if you're this business get other options on the table have other balls in the air that are going for you so it's a hack but starting to calendar your social life which is not something I like to be very flexible but when you have that it actually makes you much more charismatic and I see this all the time so there is something to this don't play the game you don't need to fake it but if you find that this is not working in your life start to take

steps to fill your calendar even if one night is like on Tuesdays I watch this TV show and then take a luxurious bath after like no sorry I can't do it Tuesday and this can all get adjusted when you're in a relationship and it's ongoing there's a give and take that is of course going to occur but man yeah there is um there's these power games that people play there's these these who is more in demand and like it or not it has an impact I went through some of your best performing videos of time

on your channel and it was interesting that I could see kind of themes in them right I could see the several of the best performing videos had similar themes and one of the really prominent themes was five habits that make people instantly dislike you so that's a video about Brie Larson and around the time of the Avengers Captain Marvel thing she had a string of interviews that were pretty alienating to people some of the things that she did goodness it was having to win every joke exchange they're talking about for instance who's the most powerful

Avenger right and they're sort of being playful with each other like well Thor is the most powerful and she adopts this attitude of well actually my character would kill yours and there's a well actually quality like well actually I would been actually I would win actually uh your character is just a mere mortal and I would win and it is like cute once but it becomes frustrating to have someone have to win every banter exchange between friends and so I think people saw that and they saw some of the reactions of the cast and so

that's one is like to have to win every banter exchange and have a burn that you come out on top of not a good one another one that she did is to interpret ambiguous Communications negatively so for instance in this particular video that I did she's on that wired autocomplete interview and there's one question that is does Bri Larson work out and in a way that doesn't to at least to Americans like clearly communicate sarcasm maybe it's different to Brits I don't know you guys have a different cultural code she says something to the effect

of like is that a personal attack really yeah and then she doesn't laugh and she also so there's two options there you could say is that a personal attack and then you could laugh right or you could say is that a personal attack everyone on the internet thinks that I'm so fat just trying to jump on me I'm trying to lose weight like you can you can double and triple down until it's clear that you're being absurd yeah but she said it once and it came through as hyper defensive and the thing that I talk

about is you want to interpret ambiguous Communications charitably this is a big one this is one of like if You' watched the show Ted lasso this is full of this people will come up to him and I just did a video that had this clip where he's on the airplane if you know Ted lasso he's an american guy going to England and somebody says you know you're you're going to uh coach the football team the soccer team for us in England man they're so bad this is going to go horribly you're Legend and then he

responds well you know I haven't lost yet and he's just got this General positive demeanor he takes that ambiguous communication and responds with Grace and charm and doesn't make it a fight that works so well that purposeful misinterpretation of ambiguation early on that are maybe not the friendliest this often will take people that are trying to take Digs at you and make them flip and in the case that somebody was just a bit socially miscalibrated it gives them the opportunity to you know not be cast as the bad guy in the interaction so that was

something else that she did wrong interesting also if if others are watching the interaction and if you have a bias towards interpreting the communication well yeah the person that's was maybe taking a dig at you is going to look pretty ridiculous and you're going to probably come off looking pretty good exactly exactly and we when we see people defend themselves against words with with some exception when somebody's like saying that they're going to hurt you it communicates an insecurity and a defensiveness which is like why do you need to defend yourself against the opinions of

another right like the Trump thing where he said about only Ros o Donald yes yeah it's like I don't need to defend myself against this and it subc communicates that this is not a big deal more than saying that's not a big deal you are subc commmun that's not a big deal by not defending it and that's what we do when we actually feel comfortable let's say if somebody were to tease something that you're not at all in about I don't know what it would be maybe your business success or something they come in like

yeah well you know Sten real struggling these days you're going to laugh you're going to add on to it and sometimes a way through this is to tag the joke that's made at your expense which is to to add a yes and on top of it so if somebody ambiguous interpretation is say yeah you know Stephen these businesses just aren't working really well you be like oh my god dude you have no idea I've been pulling my hair out with the last few weeks just like things are falling apart around me you can do that

because you I'm assuming feel very comfortable with with your level of business success and when you can again there is a difference when you start to sense a pattern in somebody that is a different route that you want to take but if it's just one banter thing that is at your expense to double down and make it a joke that you're in on is often very very powerful fascinating I'm going to ask you one last question on this um one of your best performing videos is titled speak like a leader make people respect you in

fact there was two of your top performing videos that were about speaking like a leader speaking well which is fascinating to me that people really want to learn how to speak well what advice would you give to someone who doesn't feel like they're a good oral communicator on how to speak like a leader the ability to answer non- literally and bring in fun and jokes into the interaction the ability to get to values in a conversation which is a lot of the stuff that we talked about to take people to the thing that they actually

want to connect over versus the weather and all that sort of stuff is part of it you don't you you seem to take a pause as well when you're thinking Some People fill in the gaps a little bit yeah generally and I I'm sure I've made this mistake but if you can replace any filler word um uh any crutch word that you have with silence silence is a vacuum and the cool thing about vacuums is that they pull attention to you MH and I think people dramatically dramatically underestimate the amount of Silence that're they're afforded

if I look back actually at my early videos I dramatically underestimated the value of Silence I thought that I had to get it all out there and be super interesting really fast in order to keep that avd really really high and I've since seen and learned that when you have a story and you learn the Beats where you've set up the mystery and so there's these these lines that you'll say in a story is like you know the craziest thing happened the other day so I'm right like you you are there's there's these Hooks and

you get an intuitive feel for where you've got the audience on the edge of their seat and especially then to just take a breath or have a pause you don't need to think all of this out but that becomes second nature that's very valuable and it comes from the way I've seen people do is when you record yourself tell a story and just watch back how many ums and us you have in it when I watch my own podcasts I'm sure you've felt this yeah oh my gosh it's horrifying yeah you begin to see your

own little habits come through does body language matter when I'm speaking in your I think so yeah yeah there's a couple things that I tend to teach people which is a lot of people form a tiny little box for themselves where maybe they'll move their hands like this and it's they got this thing going on people that can't see you just kind of waving it like a I'm kind of waving my hands in a little circular thing and my elbows most importantly are pin to my sides if I lift my elbows off my sides and

I start talking a little bit like this and if I was to say you know over here and my brother's in The Green Room over there and I gesticulate there's two ways to gesticulate I can take my finger and I can point six inches from my face the direction that my brother is or I can lift my entire arm and P over there point over there the space that you fill is one captivating this is something that we talk about in a lot of our videos which is you don't need to invade other people's space

you need to fill your own completely when you fill your space completely it is much more captivating so when you're on stage to gesticulate with the the full width of your wingspan like look I know you guys on this side of the room are feeling this but over here right versus I know you guys on this side of the room think that we have to do this but over here it just there's a level of discomfort that is comes through in it versus get those elbows off the sides it makes a huge huge difference also

helps you speak louder makes you more Dynamic what's the most important thing we haven't talked about that the audience are probably screaming to know at this exact moment in time when it comes to confidence one of the mindsets that I see really help people is that there are no superiors that you go into your workplace and you think that you've got to treat your boss differently or you go into a bar and you think you have to treat the beautiful woman differently and yes there is status and yes we arrange ourselves in sorts of hierarchies

but when you realize and I as I did in my job and this is why I got the raise off cycle it's why everything started working for me you're not dealing with roles you're not dealing with investors you're not dealing with avatars of beauty you are dealing with people and the people that they love the most in their life that they would do the most for they connect with over the same things that you connect with your friends over there's different interests but the underlying themes of those things are the same what they love to

do for fun what fills them up what brings them Joy not looking prim and proper and perfect and so like a willingness to make that mistake is uh I see is often the essence of confidence and when I have dropped it and another friend has picked it up I see it all the time goes back to what you said about convincing versus invites don't convince people give them invites to connect yeah yeah that's a really interesting point that I never heard before and I can immediately see how I can action that in my own life

because I do even I find myself like convincing people all the time trying to convince them especially if they don't know I'm like oh I do this I do this I do this even like when I land into the US they're like border Force are like what are you doing here like what do you do I'm like I got to podcast cool start a business brings out that little boy just say your holiday I'm here for a [ __ ] holiday let me through we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest

leaves a question for the next guest without knowing who they're leaving it for all right and the question that's been left for you is what is the most important thing you are doing to increase your well-being a well we have talked about this and without opening a can of worms I have done roughly quarterly psychedelic Journeys for the last couple of years and I was someone who had never done that before I when I was 30 I was the most straight Ed person you ever met I didn't drink I didn't do any of that why

you doing it why am I doing it Hest aners only to connect with my heart and have that be the primary was thing that I bring into every interaction and it has helped me address the barriers to that the shame and we didn't go super deep today into it but the things that I've alluded to in my past that uh I thought made me broken or Unworthy of showing up fully where did that come from get um the belief and I the experiences that I had and there were many and it feels late the podcast

to jump into them though we can jump into them if you want to um I'm I'm open to it uh one of them was being sexually abused and one of the things that I got from psychedelics was the ability to go back into that experience and realize what it had what compensations I'd made as a result of it because it was always something that I remembered I was old enough to remember I was probably about 10ish and but the way that I took it was this is my fault I did this I must have wanted

this or else it wouldn't have happened it's that infinite responsibility even at a young age that that I took which I can see is crazy and therefore this doesn't bother me I'm not I'm not affected by this um and in these experiences to break to just crack entirely and my heart to spill out of my chest in in pain and tears and grief for the loss of Soul connection that was impacting by that experience to uh I'm so blessed to have had the chance to reconnect with my soul and I want so deeply to offer

that to other people and perhaps this adds some context to the shift and Charisma from something that you do to the essence of Who You Are and that's that's how I want to teach it going forward and that's what I that's the core gift that I want to pass forward to others that emotion is still on the surface MH because it it cost you something that you what what what what are the like the mixture of emotions you feel today I feel so much love I feel so much love like I I hear this voice

voice in my head say I love you like I hear it so much I feel it constantly it's such a fuing gift and a blessing ah and so much grief for the years that I didn't feel that and then I had to be more than I was in order to come approximate a fraction of that um so it's today ecstatic joy and and uh gratitude and when I think back on it it's um compassion which is not what I felt before I felt revulsion for myself when I thought of what had happened to me I

felt disgusted with me with my body with my center and um I I love being me more and more and uh so yeah I think part of the mix is the I'm glad you asked because it's what I want to give to other people whatever I can related to this and I think I the only way I can give it is by speaking to what I lost for a long time as well and um I didn't believe in souls for my whole life you know there was none of that that word was empty to me

and to have it come back and to First feel the ache of it coming back the excruciating pain of like oh the separation from this and then the reunion is just like every day I uh I like pray and gratitude for that so I um that's the that's it's why I bought the business is is for this to spread that to as many people as I can thank you yeah it's really a beautiful thing that you just shared for for because I just know that there's people out there that are at some stage in that

Journey you know it's a sexual abuse or something that I think from my very sort of naive um experience of speaking to people that have been through that is a very unique complex range of feelings and emotions that someone who's not been through that might struggle to understand because an objective Observer says you felt you felt you done something wrong yeah you carried the shame you carried the guilt you carried disgust it doesn't make it doesn't appear to make sense so by way of you sharing it you're going to enable a lot of people who

are struggling in a similar way to make sense of what they're experience but also to offer them tremendous hope that at the end of that Journey however long that might take them they're going to arrive at alignment yeah they're going to come back to themselves yeah the shame was so underneath it was so pushed down I wasn't aware of it you know you asked earlier what were you feeling back then I said shame but I was it came out sideways it came way in perfectionism or seeking approval or trying to rescue and save other people

all the things that we talked about today it was only through direct contact with that repressed feeling of self-disgust and responsibility that I was able to move through it and heal it and uh to sit with the worst thoughts that I had about myself which is like you said you did this you wanted it you deserve it you you know all of that stuff that gets uh sounds so freaking strange even to me to say but to know that that's the common response to something like that ah man it has helped me understand people so

much more because I think you know I have my own history and my own shames but when you see the way that people internalize the things that have happened to them as if they're broken as if they deserved the misfortunes of particularly their early life and late life it's uh it's so sad and I can see now how how sad it is but you couldn't have convinced me before is there anything that you wish this this grown man in front of me could say to that boy I wish and this that someone could have I

just needed someone to sit with me someone to sit and wait Without Blame there was not opportunity for an adult to just sit that I trusted and just listen so if I could send anything back to myself then it would just be an adult to listen to me and today what I've had to send back internally is that I just listen to myself I listen to myself so much more and it's only through listening to myself that I can get through all the shame and then finally hear that voice of I love you like I

love you I love you you you couldn't be loved more thank you thank you there's so many reasons why I feel so grateful to you I mean um your work over the years has helped so many people make sense of a world that appears to be very confusing especially as like a young man but even also as a young woman um understanding why we're struggling in our lives can feel like a Rubik's cube of a bunch of different factors that we were either given across the dining room table from our parents or biologically or whatever

and you've helped us to understand the most important thing in the world which is humans what it is to be a human how to be an effective human in whatever context how to to be an uneffective human and to really turn the lights on to many of the things that we do and don't do without knowing it at all and all of this gives us a greater chance of becoming whoever we want to be and I'm also grateful to you because your willingness to share your early experiences this early abuse that happened and to reflect

on it and to talk to us so openly and honestly about the complexities of it are going to help so many people who are at some stage in that in that process to feel seen and heard and to also maybe most importantly of all offer them hope that they can come to where you've arrived at today where you love yourself thank you man and you have that love in yourself thank you that what a gift that's a hell of a blessing thank you I highly recommend everybody um if they want to hear more from you

they have to go and check out your channel I'm going to put it on the screen and Link it everywhere because you're on a journey and I think people are more fascinated now than ever before to really follow that journey and understand what truly Charisma is what loving yourself is what we should be aiming at um and I'm I mean having spoken to you today I'm so I'm almost obsessed with your work and what's going to pour out of you in this season of your life and I'd highly recommend everybody go check out the channel

it's unbelievable you're back you you took a Hiatus yeah but you're back and there's a new uh there's a a new Essence to you which I think is incredible yeah um so please go check out Charlie's work please go check out his Channel please go check out his university I'm going to link all of that below um and is there anything else that if people want to reach out to you how do they do it how do they get more from you yeah we have we have a course called charism University which is you ask

me a lot about the tips and quite frankly they're not top of mind but they're in there you know that's a 30-day program for people to go through and start to implement these things in a very actionable way so if they're curious they can check that out um just Google Charisma University and I think that's it I'm happy we finally got to the tears Stephen I was worried that your reputation would fail you thank you thanks man it's been a pleasure it really really has been isn't this cool every single conversation I have here on

the dire of a CEO at the very end of it you'll know I asked the guest to leave a question in the Diary of a CEO and what we've done is we've turned every single question written the Diary of a CEO into these conversation cards that you can play at home so you've got every guest we've ever had their question and on the back of it if you scan that QR code you get to watch the person who answered that question we're finally revealing all of the questions and the people that answered the question the

brand new version two updated conversation cards are out right now at the conversation card cards.com they've sold out twice instantaneously so if you are interested in getting hold of some limited edition conversation cards I really really recommend acting quickly this has always blown my mind a little bit 53% of you that listen to the show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show so could I ask you for a favor before we start if you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us the free simple way that you

can do just that is by hitting the Subscribe button and my commitment to you is if you do that then I'll do everything in my power me and my team to make sure that this show is better for you every single week we'll listen to your feedback we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to and we'll continue to do what we do thank you so much [Music] oh