Whitney Webb & Mark Goodwin on How Intelligence Agencies Capture Everything

Mark hi Whitney Hi how are you both hi doing good super good thanks Peter happy to be here good to see good to see you good to see you okay um so you two have you're working on a lot of stuff at the moment um you've just released a massive piece uh which which we're going to get into um and uh we we made an attempt to do this yesterday so we're going to have another go another go today um but I'm going to just I'm just going to get straight straight into this uh this

time I'm not going to muck around we're going to talk about chain of custody we're going to talk about PayPal Mafia um there's a lot of detail to this I've read the article which I know you've already released Danny told me it would take 45 minutes it took an hour and a half I think I need to read it probably about four more times to get it there's a lot of characters so we might have to take our time uh I'm going to get you to start mark I want you firstly if you can do

as best you can a tldr of the story arc so people understand the story we're going to tell in in its entirety and then we'll work our way through the various companies and people yeah 100% for sure I mean and just you know we we totally sympathize with the uh this is a 177,000 word chuner we know uh we've had to read it a bunch of times uh you know there's a lot of information here um and actually you know in in the spirit of that uh kind of for the first time you know we

did a sort of key takeaways at the start of the piece kind of for this reason uh and it's funny actually people have brought up to us before they've tried to run our pieces through you know like learning uh language modelers you know trying to do like summations and they like won't touch the the incendiary content uh this is saying a bunch of mean things about people you know we don't want to you know parse it it's kind of funny so we did that for you um but yeah so basically chain of custody you know

Whitney and I have been kind of on Trope for a long time obviously you know I wrote the Bitcoin dollar uh you know and started writing about this sort of Bitcoin dollar system in like 2021 and we've now done like I don't know four or five something pieces um kind of in this in this realm uh and this one um you know was uh you know kind of the very beginning of it was sort of looking at these Venture Capital firms behind uh you know the infrastructure of this system so you know I guess the

the the very very you know broad stroke summation of it is you know intelligence Affiliated Venture Capital firms are dominating the fintech industry which you know should be kind of no surprise to those sort of paying attention but uh you know we are now starting to kind of like name the names and and uh you know really looking at this this this structure um so that's kind of the first bit you know we talk a little bit about the funding of incel the CIA Venture firm um and you know we'll get into that more broadly

but uh so yeah that intelligence Affiliated Venture Capital firms and then this uh you know this this kind of idea of these kind of entrepreneurial social groups like Endeavor um very similar in function to the world economic forum's young Global leader leaders program the Henry cow uh Crown Fellowship um you know capturing basically these uh you know CEOs of these you know very important companies you know at the beginning at the incubation of of the startups uh and a group like Endeavor specifically functions a lot like the the young global leaders program except instead of

being this public sector focused um you know think group uh it's private sector and and very specifically private sector in emerging markets in Latin America um and the way that they kind of do this is they sort of hide and mask where this funding is coming from um and making it look like there's sort of this naturally blossoming private sector explosion of innovation when in reality all these companies are funded um you know by similar people similar interests um and they lead to this sort of you know as Endeavor describes it as this multiplier effect

um and making it look like there's yeah this sort of you know amazing free market private sector you know hurah kind of going on but really it's you know okay wow we got these direct connections to the likes of Edgar brofman Jr and Pierro midar uh the PayPal Mafia you know Reed Hoffman uh a lot of these sort of you know intelligence and Mafia connected um you know entities um billionaires um that have helped build the fintech uh environment that we live in in the United States and and and in Europe um so yeah like

we're looking at these Network mafias essentially uh and unfortunately there's a lot of connections to these sort of more notorious you know blackmail Rings sex blackmail Rings such as those led by Jeffrey Epstein which obviously you know Whitney literally wrote the book on that uh and then you know maybe the slightly lesser known but still very very well known the Nexium Group which has direct connections to the Bromans and then we sort of kind of look at okay we've established this Trope this private sector coup basically uh in Latin America and in Emerging Markets being

led by these these billionaires the small group of people um and then we kind of take a step back and we look at you know like how did we get here what's the history what's the decades long trip down down this this road how did we get here um and and we're looking at sort of how banking uh became sort of about information how how technology firms silic and Valley really became all about information um and so we looked at sort of the innovators in that field like City like Visa like PayPal and these people

that were really in instrumental uh in the creation of information being a commodity um and now we've gotten to the point where uh like that's quite literally true with Bitcoin it's literally bits it's data uh and it's now a whole commodity system um so this this these you know these core people that have built this sort of information banking sector um are all directly connected uh specifically to one of Endeavors you know most important uh success stories uh and certainly extremely important in the Bitcoin ecosystem zapo when says curus is zapo uh which has affiliations

to many of the early funders of Microsoft eBay PayPal Facebook um and uh you know he specifically says when say that you know Endeavor literally came Linda Rottenberg the founder of endeavor came and knocked on his door uh and when he had no money and he was trying to find uh you know help knock on his door and changed his life as he said as he told Reed Hoffman um so this zapo is this incredibly important uh you know infrastructural pillar in the Bitcoin dollar system uh that's directly connected and owes its success directly to

Endeavor uh and so we looked at this first Advisory Board of zapo which has de Hawk of Visa John Reed of city and then Larry Summers who was you know in in the treasury in Obama's cabinet the president of Harvard and you know these three like very important um you know figures in the deregulation of the markets in the 90s that led to 08 and the bailouts and now they're here building this new Bitcoin Bank stablecoin connected US dollar connected Bitcoin bank that specifically built out the best custodial situation um for Bitcoin for the early

years you know wines has considered the Silicon Valley is like patient zero he he orange pilled everybody very early on in Bitcoin and here he is building the vaults underground going into space doing all these things so we're seeing all of this important stuff incredibly influential from a regulatory standpoint from a custodial standpoint um all of the funding being connected to these very important Silicon Valley you know stalwarts um and now we're seeing them they're here they're in Latin America and they are ready to sort of use the structure that they've built the markets that

they've built to covertly dollarize the global self uh you know via this this sort of infrastructure that they built so that's the brief overview obviously that was a bit of a rant but that's sort of the that's that that's the case of this piece so I don't know if Whitney has anything she wants to say specifically there no I think we'll get into specifics later probably yeah cool yeah and and so I was trying to kind of note the pressure points of of uh this kind of article and I I kind of had it down

as obviously the Bitcoin dollar itself uh and the issues that we have or that you you will have recognized with that uh centralized power and influence of uh small groups which is obviously something as Bitcoin as we've desperately tried to get away from and then the role of uh intelligence agencies and the influence that they may be having and you know we try we were going to record this yesterday we we've gone back a date and I was going to get you to work through the characters the story but actually I think I want to

start actually at the Bitcoin dollar I think I think I want to start with you explaining what it is and what it is about a Bitcoin dollar that you don't like uh where is it oppressive uh what are the you know who is benefited from it so what it can can you can you break down what this Bitcoin dollar is like the mechanics of it yeah totally 100% it's it's really um I I don't think it's actually that foreign of a concept if you are uh a bit familiar with sort of the Petro dollar system

which I think a lot of us uh you know Bitcoin podcast listeners are it's definitely something talked about quite a bit but essentially when the US uh you know went off the gold standard the Nixon shock happened at the start of the 70s uh immediately the US uh intervened in in the Middle East and very specifically in Saudi Arabia established a military presence there um and began to in effect create a monopoly um uh on the sale of petrol of oil um in to to be done in in in us denominated uh dollars right US

dollar denominated trade basically so uh it's actually quite similar I think the Bitcoin dollar to that oil is this energy commodity um that uh you know if countries you know in the 70s 80s and 90s right Asia Europe uh South America anywhere really the US that wanted to uh you know industrialize you know they need oil um that's just that's just the way it is so there was this you know highly demanded energy commodity uh and so we went in and established um you know a de facto Monopoly on the ins and outs of the

oil trade in dollars AO creating a situation where the US can basically shovel off their um you highly inflating dollar now that it's cut off of this you know hard money standard and they can shovel the inflationary effects of the Dollar by saying if you want oil you got to buy dollars first so what should be this kind of moment where dollars you know inflate and there's less and less and less demand we've actually created artificial demand for the dollar system by forcing Asia Europe to buy dollars first to buy oil because everyone needs oil

so now we're in a situation where in 2020 right before that the having happens in May of 2020 that actually brings the relative issuance of Bitcoin below the rate of gold coming out of the ground and the rate of the you know the targeted inflation rate of the dollar we see oil go negative in in the Futures markets uh we see the US pull out of Afghanistan we see all of these kind of signposts of hey maybe the oil Market is changing significantly and we see massive amounts of inflation obviously Bitcoin crashed immediately too in

in in March of 2020 but at 20x by the end of the year uh and went up to you know just about 70k and so we've created basically the same deao Monopoly for the Bitcoin Market as this energy commodity that we know that you know we're Familiar of being this basically energy mittance Market uh We've created you know a monopoly on the ins and outs and the volume of trade of Bitcoin is is is vastly you know dollar denominated whether that's through stable coins whether that's just through USD in your bank account going into coinbase

um you know you got to buy dollars to buy Bitcoin basically again Petro dollar wasn't a literal Monopoly either um but in terms of like volume it might as well have been it's kind of the same with with Bitcoin yes you can use Euro Circle coins or what ever to buy Bitcoin but it's such a small amount of of volume that's actually happening it's really dollars so we've basically no pun intended or maybe pun intended I don't know but tethered uh the success of the Bitcoin system uh and the appreciation to the dollar market and

so that's kind of this analog the Bitcoin dollar is essentially this underlying energy commodity we've created the ins and off you know the ons and off ramps being dollar denominated we price Bitcoin in dollars we consider it all yes we say one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin but really we all got our charts open and we're looking at the dollar denominated appreciation of it so we've basically created that same um yeah that same latch of what we did with dollars to Oil we're now creating uh artificial demand for dollars to buy Bitcoin and and it's a

it's a little bit different than the Petro Dollar in that you know for example mean you say I've got my chart here open up I only know the price of Bitcoin in dollars I couldn't tell you it in pounds right I don't look at the exchange rate but I can tell you the price usually within the last few hours what Bitcoin is in dollars totally so even into a retail environment we're now conditioning people into pricing it in terms of dollars and is part of that does part of that really setting the groundwork for conditioning

people that dollar is the is the global Reserve currency yeah 100% for sure and I think also a lot of the uh you know the Bitcoin space has really kind of pushed towards you know bitcoin's a currency it's a it's a store of value it's a it's a unit of account uh the medium of exchange is is much less important uh you know we have we have dollar stable coins why would we need uh you know Bitcoin to scale for a billion people to be able to you know buy their groceries or buy coffee uh

you know we're we're using it as a reserve asset as a treasury asset not a currency um and so yeah we're seeing a lot of people say that outright you know um a lot of the people involved in this article uh have have really just straight up said that David Marcus sailor you know a lot of these people are like hey let's get stable coins on bitcoin and we'll use well why would you ever spend your Bitcoin um so we've kind of pushed it into this um even a bit the Bitcoin standard is sort of

about that it's kind of you know hey like this is this really it's the new gold um don't spend it um so we've kind of created this situation where it really functions best as a reserve asset uh and the dollar can stay uh you know for accounting purposes for speculative purposes for high volume purchases for retail purchases the dollar can kind of remain uh you know maybe not literally backed by Bitcoin but by create just like oil wasn't literally backed by dollars or the dollar rather wasn't literally backed by oil but we create basically the

same mechanism where demand for us treasuries are being bought up by some of these you know huge players in the Bitcoin space notably these stablecoin providers um so I would argue the Bitcoin dollar system is is certainly uh you know perhaps a co-option of of the potential that Bitcoin could be as as being this you know peer-to-peer Unstoppable transmitting uh technology now it's like we're all basically being told no don't spend it don't touch it leave it in your bank account leave it on your cold card rather uh and you know use stable coins use

dollars use credit cards even yeah we'll get into we'll get into some more of that stuff but that's a brief overview of the Bitcoin dollar I've talked about it quite a bit um but it's definitely an important part of this piece because I think zap specifically uh you know has basically built out the infrastructure needed for the Bitcoin dollar very highly you know secure custodian and then this you know stable coin Banking and that's kind of where we are right now and we're definitely going to get into that I just I do do just have

a couple more questions and so F firstly it's I've kind of split on this in that um is is the Bitcoin dollar really a gift that's fallen into the hands of the US government at a time where we're kind of seeing or heading towards the end of the Petro Dollar in that we know that say Saudi have already declared that they will be pricing bit uh sorry oil in other currencies certainly Russia is moving away from it we know China wants to so is this kind of a gift that's fallen into their hands or if

you want to be if you want to be ultra conspiratorial have they created something which is better than the Petro dollar well on the case of Saudi Arabia dumping the Petro dollar You could argue that Muhammad been Solon for some time has been moving away from the dollar well before that official announcement um basically when he came to power he was trying to move uh Saudi Arabia to a post oil economy he launched his vision 2030 plan um and uh you know made overtures there that he was going to try and move Saudi Arabia away

from oil and sort of make it a leader in the fourth Industrial Revolution including infant Tech and we've also seen like other uh uh big actors in you know Middle Eastern Oil speciic specifically like in you know the the United Arab Emirates for for example do kind of essentially the same thing so I think you know it's something that's sort of you know has been planned for some time and what's interesting is that MBS um uh as soon as he came to power and during the Trump Administration was very close to Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner

who was also um we know from uh emails that have since come out promoting the idea of a of like stable coins like an official US dollar stable coin he that he actually I think it was like a Sam blog post that he shared with Steve minuchin of the Treasury Department uh talking about you know the usdcoin which you know this is before Circle launched usdc but interesting so it's very possible that these discussions were being had like some time ago that it's not a as recent as you know it may appear to be based

on you know headlines that have been that have been coming out recently totally and this idea of you know we have this now highly inflating dollar just like I think we're in in a very similar position to where we were at the start of the 70s where it's like everyone is like oh here comes dollarization the Dollar's dead like here's bricks like let's go um there's an alternative now uh here comes the Euro you know there was a lot of movement kind of like in in those Decades of like dollarization and then what happened well

the Petra dollar system got built up and the dollar just kicked everybody's butt and now it's just you know easily not even disputed as being the world Reserve currency but at the time there was a lot of you know speculation quite literally uh that things were going to go other ways um now I think we're in a very very similar spot and I think what the lesson we should learn about the US dollar system is that it will do whatever it takes to retain sort of net purchasing power at the expense of the individual unit

um you know that's a debt-based economy sort of requires that it doesn't matter that the dollar has lost 99% of its value individually as a net purchasing economy the US dollar is as strong as ever it's it's uh versus other countries you know you go travel somewhere else uh you know there's there's demand for dollars everywhere and we're seeing that now as with the digitalization of money you know people in Argentina are like oh my goodness give me tethers this is so great uh it's so much better than my native currency that's inflating um you

know that's that's sort of that that's a a signpost of that of that idea that even though the dollar is inflating against itself it's still so much stronger than than the rest of the world so this idea that is this an accident uh I would say it's certainly not an accident um I think the US government has so much more to lose if if Bitcoin does poorly uh the US dollar system needs a place to hyperinflate into essentially and Bitcoin erupts exactly out of the collapse of 2008 it just appears on a mailing list uh

you know here it is and it's set up uh to be this demand in elastic energy commodity that is a universal Ledger that can store other assets on it uh and here we go and we price it in dollars and all this this hoopla that we've done for the last 14 years now I just also want to say I know you want that does not mean I think that Bitcoin is not all the things that we think it is I think Bitcoin is wonderful there's a lot of greatness in Bitcoin that uh you know it

is it is this demand in elastic like if it's so useful for a government to do all of this work or these entities you know beyond you know the the public sector but these people to build these infrastructures that is also a signpost that this is very important and we should take it very seriously but also we should just be very careful of who we let in who we roll out the red carpet for um and what kind of like infrastructure systems that we that we create in this Bitcoin economy because I don't want to

perpetuate the US Treasury Market and the US government which I feel are you know frankly kind of the biggest terrorist organization in the world I don't want to perpetuate their their their debt and and the the defense budget of the US government uh by using this technology that really could be used to to Free People yeah I all I really want to add to that is that it's important to keep in mind that like when the Petro dollar system has been you know the standard for keeping the dollar the global you know or Reserve currency

the US has gone to war and and like killed millions of people to defend that one of uh with the likely motivations obviously there's more than one but one of one of the key ones in invading Iraq I would argue was the fact that Saddam Hussein not long before The Invasion had started selling oil and Euros instead of dollars and made a lot more money showing by example to other you know oil other OPEC members that they could make more money selling different currencies than than the dollar and then of course you have the case

of uh Libya in 2011 where Qaddafi was uh trying to move to a goldback currency called the dinar and was selling that to African countries a lot of which either use dollars or they use uh you know the you know French financial stuff and that's why you had the US and France essentially lead that uh regime change operation with devastating consequences for Libya which used to be the safest country in Africa then became the most dangerous and uh has been cited as an example of uh or or a reason for why you know immigration got

so out of control in Europe after that point so the do you know there are cases where you know the US government or rather us Empire is willing to go to extreme lengths to defend the dollar so the idea that they would just sit idly by and just like let dollarization happen without having some sort of plan in the works especially knowing that they couldn't keep this going indefinitely and that the world was going to move at some point to a post oil economy um you know I think it's important to keep in mind that

these people have been very serious and played very dirty and created insane instability just to keep the dollar the global Reserve currency because it gives a lot of advantages just to the US um and I I fully feel that they intend to keep those advantages even if it means a different system was that the sorry when um sedam M started to sell oil in Euros was that pre First Gulf War or the second Gulf War uh so this is after like the the 2000 this is slightly before the 2003 Invasion I forget exactly what year

but it was somewhere between 2000 and 2002 I believe so it was after the first Gulf War so that was the second Gulf War yeah okay okay yeah no I was just trying I was trying to understand the timeline of that because obviously the original golf war was post the invasion of Q8 so I was trying to weigh that up yeah 91 right yeah 91 so the other question I have then is is dealing with this kind of conflict of not wanting to perpetuate the the US dollar and everything you've all the issues that you've

alluded to there mark with that and as well you Whitney with this idea that the dollar is also super helpful to people like I've been to Lebanon people want dollars I've been to Argentina people want dollars I've been to Venezuela they want dollars I've been to Cambodia they want dollars everywhere I go because I like to go to places where uh you know a little bit off the be and Bush everybody wants dollars so there's this conflict where there's a people want dollars it's a more stable currency than a local currency the digital dollar is

easier for them to access especially if there are controls over accessing dollars as we know existed within Argentina C pre I think it was you allow $200 a month and if you uh and if you wanted more than that you if you if you bought more than that you could lose your uh uh Social Security so like sorry you lose your welfare so like there's this weird conflict between people who want it who need it the most want it and having more liquidity and access to it but at the same time it perpetuates this system

yeah I don't know how to deal with that conflict no I understand exactly what you're saying and it is true for the average Argentina in some cases like this can be a Lifeline like I get that but it's important to look at the big picture here and the big picture is that countries like Argentina and also Lebanon and several countries throughout the world have been targeted by economic Warfare for a very long time Argentina is a very good example You could argue it began in the 70s and the 80s um and with with the economic

policy I mean when Argentina was a military dictatorship some of the financial policies they adopted were completely insane um you had an a neol liberal in power during the 90s who was very bad for Argentina in my opinion Carlos minhum and then you had their economic collapse in 2001 which again you could argue was a direct consequence of a lot of those policies both of the dictatorship and of minam's presidency and then you have the you know the IMF come in and all these other entities and what they try and do after the 2001 economic

collapse is have Argentina engage in things like debt for land swaps debt for resources swaps and this has been going on not just in Argentina but lot lots of you know most of Latin America arguably uh for a very long time and it's a resource grab yeah and you know some of what we allude to in this piece and what we hope to allude to in an upcoming uh upcoming reports and uh you know a book uh is that a lot of the you know people that you know I've written about and that Mark that

Mark's written about and that we've written about together are the engineers of that expressly and by blowing out Latin American debt in the 80s and 90s it was a way to basically yoke Latin americ uh to the United States and or more broadly a lot of the uh transnational economic interest that you know are based in the United States like Wall Street banks for example uh they engineered a lot of this and um so the situation in Argentina now didn't just come out of nowhere um and obviously Argentina's Central blank sorry blank Central Bank has

a lot of the blame uh but that also didn't happen in a vacuum it people president OED the heads of the central bank that made those policies um and even someone like Malay who's railed against the Central Bank of Argentina you know put a former Central Bank former Central Bank president in a top post in his cabinet um so you know these are choices that have been made by politicians as someone who's been and like reported from the ground on argentin in Argentina and on Argentinian politics uh it the corruption there they just like don't

even there's politicians in Argentina that don't even try to hide how corrupt they are it's just flagrant in some instances instances in a way like I've never experienced anywhere else in the entire world um so I honestly think that what's happening in Argentina yes those people have uh may need stable coins because of the current economic situation but I think that was in it was engineered to be that way they were engineered into that that position and then and who benefits from that the same people that I would argue created the solution and created the

problem and and these those people if we start to name names are actually specifically connected very directly to the zapo board and and you know like city was a huge city was a huge part of the Latin America debt restructuring uh in the 80s you look at who was leading the treasury uh in the 90s when something like a NAFTA happened uh you know who was there you know Reed and and Ruben and Summers you know were all kind of part of this this group um and uh you know who who helps short the dollar

uh or sorry the Mexican peso after uh you know the NAFTA Trade Agreement uh you know really you know basically demolishes the Mexican peso you know you have the the the Soros prote Joe Lewis uh who makes millions of dollars off of shorting uh the peso due directly to policy trade policy um that was enacted by Summers um and uh and Reed and Joe Lewis of course is Affiliated you know very directly with Deltech which is sort of the bank of uh tether um and you're beginning to kind of see like oh like John Reed

was uh you know uh hugely important Robert Rubin was sorry was hugely important in the in the treasury's decision to make this and he jumps and goes and joins City Bank who then takes over uh and merges with Mexico's largest bank uh you know at basically you know we after uh that happens uh the same the same people that were uh deregulating the derivatives Market in the United States that caused 2008 like a Larry Summers you know they're ping ponging back and forth from the private and public sector when it's beneficial for them uh to

change policy and regulation at the international level and whenever you're dealing with US dollar policy it's it's Global effects uh and they're there and then they leave and they go right to these really cushy private seor jobs uh and then they all suddenly kind of coales around uh The zapo Advisory Board uh and and they're here to uh you know as zapo says in a blog post uh you know that stable coins are increasing uh the velocity of dollarization of the global self I mean it's something that they explicitly say is happening and they are

building the rails to do this um and I I just want to add really quick about dollarization you know Mark and I feel like a lot of the goal of this is covert dollarization through stable coins and dollarization has happened in in specific Latin American countries in the past uh eador for example El Salvador and what happens then is that when they're dollarized those countries lose their financial sovereignty they become dependent on decisions of the fed and a lot of consequences come from that so this is an effort by the same architects of even those

instances in Ecuador and Al Salvador to essentially voice the same thing on Latin America but under you a more you know it doesn't seem like over dollarization when it's stable coins that aren't directly connected to the US government but they are directed connected directly to the US Treasury System for example and then we also have some of these companies that zapo are connected to for example that are also backed by this endeavor company that is the focus of this piece like SATA logic which was also um a key focus of our previous article debt from

above and if you look at the board on SATA logic you have the former head of the Treasury Department uh Steve minuchin uh you have uh uh Howard lutnick of canor Fitzgerald one of the main you know people involved in the Treasury System right um and then you have someone uh from the rotten group and the rotten group is named for Nick rotten uh who basically led the Latin American debt uh policies of JP Morgan throughout the 1980s netting the bank an insane amount of money and really aggravating uh the Latin American debt crisis as

we know it today so why are all those people on the board of the satellite company for example and why do these people pop up at zapo why are these people that also are you know involved in stable coins like payal for example with py USD you know why are they all over Endeavor the PayPal Mafia uh I think it's so much that it's it's very hard to ignore and write it off as a coincidence and we did you didn't even mention Marcos galin being on the board of s logic who's literally considered endeavor's success

story uh why is tether giving sat logic $30 million why is the stable coin uh you know sort of you know money market basically investing in in surveillance Tech um I think it's it's it's worth discussing and you start to look at oh well maybe the future is commodity back stable coins well who owns all the Commodities uh if we do move away from the treasury market well it's these huge infrastructure players like an Eduardo elstein or you know these players uh in in Argentina that are directly connected to Endeavor uh once again so I

think the uh you know the stable coin issuers are are are humongously important in finding places to place US debt uh I think uh they're right now uh the 18th largest holder of US debt is stable coin issuers um which is just outside like the top 10 uh tether specifically in countries um which is still less than Hong Kong but larger than Saudi Arabia which is pretty wild so you know they're at 140 billion something like that 130 billion I'm not exactly sure today uh you know China Japan you know they're at like a trillion

so it's like they're like passing 10% of our biggest uh you know creditors in the world uh you know these huge national interests that's generally where you sell foreign debt right you sell it to like countries now we're selling them to companies uh with 30 employees that uh you know are now making billions of dollars a quarter uh just on interest payments um from the short-term treasuries that they hold and now we're seeing them you know tether I think is you know they really Market themselves as sort of this banking the unbank but then we're

seeing where their money is flowing and what they're investing in and they're investing in satell logic satellite companies and brain machine interfaces neurot the Black Rock neurotech company um and we're seeing them sort of spread out into all of these these kind of other groups again you know banking has now become really about information and you know data Brokers are sort of the uh the future of Silicon Valley and they kind of have been for the last 20 years um and we've seen Silicon Valley like a lot of these data Brokers like a Facebook like

a LinkedIn um you know they're they're not really making they offer a free product so where do they getting all of this money to be multi-billion dollar companies well they're taking user data and they're selling it uh to other for to advertising companies right that's where Google makes all its money Facebook linked in all of these groups data has now become the commodity of the world and so now we're seeing banking companies doing this exact same play and they're selling banking companies I think just today it came out that like AT&T lost like 110 million

uh you know customer data uh you know files to hackers or whatever that was hackers but how many people have actually you know lost their data just by clicking a user agreement that they didn't read that says all of your Facebook stuff all of your messages all your Twitter DMS whatever are now kind of out out there in the world to be sold and advertised against you um I don't know if you have anything to add there well I would add about like the the tether play I think it's I think it's really similar but

like in Reverse of like what Elon Musk is is doing so tedler started off with money right with the stable coin now they're going into satellites and brain chips musk is doing brain chips and satellites and he took over a social network arguably for the user data and now he's turning uh or has made it very explicit his intentions uh to turn Twitter x uh into a bank that he hopes to be half of the financial system why is that happening it's very odd and then when you consider all these like PayPal link UPS of

course mus being a co-founder of of PayPal it's all very like yeah and and I and I did a conversation I had to sit down with Walter Hesser who's the head of strategy at paxos which does the issuance for um PayPal stablecoin and he told me specifically that he doesn't foresee actually usdt and usdc surviving oncoming regulatory environments and yet he still sees trillions of dollars of Highly regulated stable coins being printed in the next few years well what does that mean what do trillions of dollars of Highly regulated stable coins being printed what what

does that actually mean in effect well it means trillions of dollars of us treasuries being purchased uh airgo we're seeing money Printing and we're seeing a perpetuation of demand for dollars and for US debt through these you know this new found just Hungry Hungry Hippo of us treasuries uh whether it's the US DC hippo or the usdt hippo or the oncoming py USD hippo they're just smashing US debt as much as possible um because there's so much demand for it uh and then I think the other wrinkle to this too which is kind of interesting

is well creating the regulatory environment for Capital requirements and we're seeing things kind of coming out where how crypto will be regulated with oncoming basil 3 requirements and uh you know they're going to basically say you need to have X amount of dollars on your balance sheet if you want x amount of Bitcoin and as Bitcoin appreciates you actually need to grow your dollars uh because you know Bitcoin is considered a liability on your dollar sheet on your balance sheet so you if Bitcoin goes to $100,000 a million dollars which you know we're bitcoiners right

of course that's G to happen right so when that happens what does that mean how much dollars is micro strategy gonna have to have on their balance sheet how many dollars are is tether gonna have as now one of the biggest holders of Bitcoin as well Zappo has like 50,000 Bitcoin coinbase custody has you know 00,000 Bitcoin or whatever the ETFs now Black Rock You Know 400,000 Bitcoin when that happens how many trillions of dollars of of of dollars are they going to have to have on their books uh and now we're going to see

basically these fintech companies basically offer as a service hey we'll print you these dollar tokens that will offset the liabilities on your balance sheet uh and we'll charge you a fee for it and here's 400 billion dollars of tether to put on your balance sheet to offset the appreciation of your dollars and that's a abled by the public sector that's government regulation US government regulating is is sort of the the important regulatory arm of the United States we see coinbase custody which bought zapo custodial system is partnered with the doj they do work with the

dod you know they sell the Bitcoin seized uh by the US government uh and so these players are kind of establishing well hey you know we set this up this this is what we want we want Bitcoin to appreciate and uh hey you're going to need to hold a lot of dollars uh we can sell this to you as a service so you know zapo basically built the custody you know highly secured custody for your Bitcoin and now we can offer you the US dollar banking that uses stable coins and we can sell it as

a service to basically offset the liabilities on your balance sheet uh in the same way you know you use carbon credits to offset you know the lights in your uh you know highrise for your building you can buy carbon credits to offset those losses and be a green company you can offset the liability of your Bitcoin Holdings with with dollar tokens okay okay just a couple more questions on this and then we I promise you we will get into uh working through some of these key players okay the risk to bitcoiners uh specifically talking this

one at you mark you've probably thought about this a bit more but uh Bitcoin is a great tool to perpetuate this uh dollar hey and to ensure there like a liquid constant supply of uh dollars and to support the treasury market um is it a temporary need do Bitcoin serve as a temporary toour and we've seen these various kind of attempts at new legislation which means you can't have you can't custody your Bitcoin you can't have they call them self-hosted wallets they failed but do you think this is an attempt to kind of to kind

of have their cake and eater to be able to print unlimited dollars uh using Bitcoin as the vehicle but not allowing any kind of Freedom with that Bitcoin as well it's almost like they found this gift they want to use it but they don't want you to have the freedom aspects that come with it and do you think ultimately uh this will cause the death of Bitcoin or in some ways do you think ultimately this is what's going to create the success of Bitcoin and destroy the dollar itself because I can see a path of

both yeah I think that we the the Bitcoin dollar system is basically taken out from out from Taken the world economy sort of out from underneath this like dichotomy of commodity and currency and we're kind of in this this new realm where Bitcoin can sort of service as both um and they're desperately trying to keep it as a commodity and push the dollar as the currency to to sort of you know be the the liquid Market there um I think that the the you know the powers that be need Bitcoin and I think that we

actually have an advantage right now where they need it very badly in the same way that Bitcoin Banks the unbanked uh in the global south or in Africa and it empowers them financially it also does that for these absolute ghouls that are you know fraud and uh you know uh evil people I would say frankly um it does the same thing it's the same that's why Bitcoin is so is is is still interesting to me and is still a powerful tool and a means to an end despite the fact that hey wow now we're connecting

this to some of the worst groups of sexual black male people that have ever you know in modern history that we've ever found out right um so I think that they need Bitcoin and I think that that actually gives us you know that's why I think it's really important and we've been really like you know focusing on this work so so intensely right now uh because it's so important because this is actually a moment where you know they have to inflate the price of Bitcoin to perpetuate the dollar based in this sort of this metric

that we're looking at so what does that mean well that means that you know us that have been in Bitcoin or that whole Bitcoin are going to see a little scratch you know get into our wallets here right we're going to have a little bit of a war chest to do stuff with so it's really important that we communicate that there is sort of an attempt to I don't want to say Co-op Bitcoin because I think Bitcoin is very agnostic itself as a protocol to anything that's happening underneath it but there's sort of an opportunity

here that hey you know maybe they made a little bit of a mistake here if you do take this this angle that maybe it was created by intelligence or from a government or whatever I think ultimately it doesn't matter um but you know we got some we got some funds to and Bitcoin like all money is just a means to an end it's a medium of exchange it's a bargaining tool so what are we going to do as bitcoiners that were here that that got you know funds to you know what are we going to

build what systems are we going to perpetuate and build for our kids and our kids kids you know how are we going to take this moment which is all the things that we talk about uh you know this this very important uh you know sort of uh know new Financial system occurring you know it gives us all an opportunity to do something here so I think it's important that we you know arm ourselves with what's going on and the truth and and then take our funds and and start putting it towards sustainable systems that really

perpetuate freedom and and uh you know get us out from underneath the panopticon of of intelligence and and of and of government entities sort of you know being these Financial terrorists frankly across the world so like now here we are we have an opportunity to do something like what are we gonna do what's up yeah so like on that note a lot of the talking points by a prominent Bitcoin influencers for some time has been like this is a solution to irresponsible Central Bank policy government fiscal policy um and and you know things like that

and a debt-based monetary system in general Fiat what what have you and so what are the implications then of this system that's aiming to uh you know Yoke the dollar to that and use it to perpetuate the dollar I think people should seriously be asking themselves because we're you know right now you have like Bitcoin only companies taking lots of money from tether and being like we're going to use uh the dollar to make Bitcoin stronger and stuff but you can't Al you can't do that and then also be like you know Fiat bad Central

Bank bad uh and then just essentially team up with that same system I mean it just seems kind of weird doesn't it yeah I think so personally all right let's try and work through the spider web um to start with intelligence agencies uh because and I start with you Whitney you've obviously done a lot of work previously investigating intelligence agencies and I'm pretty sure a lot of people work them consider themselves the good guys trying to make the world a better place uh I equally know uh you are probably the one of the most skeptical

people in the world of intelligence agencies and the uh pervasive influence they have on society the world uh and so specific speically with how they've started to infiltrate uh Capital markets can we talk about what you've seen there and compare it so to give people like comparisons let's try and compare it as best as possible to how they've done the same with say the big social media Giants the twitters the Facebooks Etc sure okay so in the case of like us intelligence if you go back to the very beginning and there's even CIA like Deputy

directors that have said that uh it was all Wall Street people at the beginning it was Wall Street lawyers it was Wall Street bankers and since that point from the Genesis of the CIA um there's been revolving doors between C and Wall Street that have continued up until today um and really you could look at the CIA as a public private Enterprise and in some sense it's a public Security Agency but it's uh more or less function throughout uh its history as Wall Street secret police that's why its earliest coups for example uh like its

first coup in Guatemala that was done on uh behalf of United Fruit uh you know a major multinational corporation headquartered in the United States which interestingly enough was later uh acquired by uh Leon Black's father and then uh Leslie wet's business Mentor know that name yeah um and then you also have you know like a coup the coup in Iran um uh over like anglo-american oil uh like them losing their their Holdings there uh the coup in 1973 in Chile can argue was because of efforts to nationalize copper and all these uh largely Western mining

companies losing out and then they come in and and do a coup and what have you um they're all it's really been symbiotic for some time um and I think you know as we moved into the information age uh the CIA saw an opportunity well let me back up a little bit the internet from the very beginning uh was you know originally started as arpanet you know a project of the Pentagon and for anyone that really wants to know about that history uh I would highly recommend the book surveillance Valley by Yasha LaVine uh it

was essentially created in Vietnam as a counterinsurgency program uh that was the goal of it by the same people that were involved in things like The Phoenix Program which was the first instance of um you know military intelligence at least US military intelligence using databases to come up with names of dissidents and then assassinating them and a lot of them weren't actually dissidents like suspected dissident or neighbors of dissidents and all of this stuff and then from Phoenix Program it goes you know all these CIA back dictatorships like you know Pino and Chile for example

you know Operation Condor uh use the exact same system and they've been building these systems with the internet even before the modern internet as we use it now existed and so a lot of these early there there were efforts early on to King make the companies um who would come to dominate the internet and we that has happened it's just a matter of public record if you look at the biggest companies in big Tech um you know I've done work about how Facebook was essentially launched as a resurrection of a failed DARPA program called lifelog

uh by the same person that resurrected uh the failed DARPA program total information awareness one of the most insane surveillance proposals ever in US history resurrected as paler you can thank Peter theel for that co-founder of um of PayPal and uh a lot of these other companies that have become huge uh Google for example uh you know there's a good article by nefes Ahmed uh um written on the uh by inser when he published at insurge intelligence called how the CIA made Google if you look at a lot of these companies uh you will find

intelligence agencies at the beginning paler I mentioned earlier took inel money uh developed very closely with the CIA it began at PayPal it's a PayPal spinoff paler is uh Oracle another huge company in Silicon Valley uh Larry Ellison before he started Oracle was working on on Project Oracle at the CIA on databases and was basically was the infrastructure for Oracle as we know it now um a lot of these there's been a lot of you know symbiosis between intelligence agencies and these big companies for a long time and they couldn't have done it without venture

capital and that's arguably why the CIA launched uh inel in the late 90s uh because they wanted to become big players in Silicon Valley because when you decide you know who the king makers are well uh there's a lot of things actually to be said about that um so what I mentioned earlier about like total information awareness you know this is a program that was just deemed so insane um in the early 2000s that essentially every mainstream media publication railed against it and in Rights group uh railed against it but then when they relaunched the

same program essentially as a private entity as a private sector sector entity no one complained and so the CIA for a long time and other intelligence agencies have followed this exact Playbook uh specifically Israeli intelligence uh when you move into the private sector you can get away with a lot more than you can in the public sector sometimes depending on what you're trying to do and so there have been efforts to do that um you know I would argue for a very long time and if you look at how these big tech companies have developed

and you know for example re Revelations from the Snowden leaks just like how the extent to which these private companies you know how much of your data that they're selling or passing uh to us intelligence uh for warrantless survey I mean they've been collaborators of this for a very very long time um and I think there really hasn't been enough scrutiny of that and I would really argue that a lot of these companies operate more often than not um as intelligence fronts and it's kind of gotten to the point too where in in US specifically

um the people Behind These very big Tech the biggest of the big tech companies are also the main donors to the two US political parties right um you know you have like Peter theel um on the Republican side you have Reed Hoffman on the Democrat side um and uh Eric Schmidt on the Democrat side I mean you know they fund our politicians and they dominate our our you know private sector uh infrastructure especially as we've been forced to be more online specifically since the co era and the goal is to have things digitalize even further

and have it all be on these people's systems and have us become completely dependent um on their infrastructure and these people are in bed with intelligence and even aside from the intelligence connections you know they they have a lot of dirty laundry why did Jeffrey Epstein have connections with almost every big Tech oligark in the United States I mean not enough people have bothered to ask that question why were so many of them subpoena during the JP Morgan Epstein case in the US Virgin Islands that ended up being settled I forget how much JP Morgan

paid to make it all go away but a lot of money and I and I think this idea of the intelligence you know sort of going into the private sector uh in order to sort of like you know whitewash away you know public uh you know disgust at these Services you could also sort of look at well hey is that exact same thing playing out in the digital dollar sphere you know everyone is all hurah oh down CBDs suck and this is so bad but no one gives a that we're you know these intelligence link

companies are building digital dollars that have $120 billion dollar worth of liquidity no one cares uh and so is this idea of the cbdc as a digital dollar sort of a red herring why are they moving into the private sphere oh is it because they actually retain more rights to restrict user uh you know access and the right to transact and blacklisting you can do more of that as a private sector entity than you can as the public sector and it's already happened I mean Bank of America illegally gave a ton of uh user data

and financial transaction data uh to people to to the federal government on January 6th um and you have PE uh JP Morgan uh Deb banking people uh one of the most notable I guess uh I guess it was last year was Dr marola Who was just taking off and his whole team really was debanked by JP Morgan no explanation um I mean they can do that and people be like oh it's a private company it's their choice and when the government does it it's it's a little bit different right um so basically what we have

here is a global public private partnership and when it's convenient for this particular group they move into the public sphere and when it's convenient they move into the private sphere that's why you have the revolving door it's essentially it's all been intertwined and tied together for a very long time and now that's why we're being pushed into this new era where it's overt the stakeholder capitalism era the era of of the public private partnership which is you know the whole thing of the world economic forum and all of that what they've been promoting since they

came into existence in the 70s yeah so I some I'm wondering how this slippery slope even happens because um you'll know as well as me Mark there are some people considered very respected bitcoiners who are uh heavily involved in tether sure working tether help found tether sure uh and and also other supporters of tether again very well respected people there are people integrating tether into wallets and Etc but I I'm also pretty aware that tether hasn't really shied away from admitting that they I can't remember exactly what they said they would they share data or

they can freeze accounts but they've been pretty open about the fact that they are uh I don't even know I don't want to word it wrong they partnered with the FBI they've integrated chain analysis which is dutel funded and literally Paulo has said uh you know te one of tether's goals is to uh continue the economic hedgman of the US dollar globally I mean he's literally said that as much and I wonder how the slippery slope works is it you you know you're a bitcoiner um there is a demand for a dollar uh the availability

of to trade in and out of Bitcoin somebody invents it it its usage explodes and grows you get a tap on the shoulder one day it's like look you got two choices either one uh we're going to close this down and send you to DAR or two you provide us with all your data and you got this weird conflict of choices because like I say pretty well respected not just poo but like pretty well respected bitcoiners are integrating te into into wallets and you know and a fairly openly supportive of tether existed and so are

we turning a blind eye is it a slippery slope do you become captured I mean is it all of the above a lot of people forget at the beginning that Brock Pierce was a you know a formative part of the founding of tether who was Epstein Affiliated he ran the the the de uh network with Mark Collins Rector who uh you know also started concentric networks which was a huge ISP in the start of the 90s that actually did work in the treasury Department uh with bny melon uh you know working on Payment Systems um

you know this you know Brock Pierce you know was was arrested for you know having a huge stash of of uh I'll call it CP and you know being you know kind of arrested for trafficking um or charged rather um with Mark Collins um and Chad shackley um and you know there's a lot of intelligence connections uh immediately can can we have some context there look I'm no fan of Brock Pierce I think he's a dick but at the time and I've seen the document he was about he was a teenager himself right yeah he

was a Disney guy uh yeah no but but I you know the feeling I got from the documentary when I saw it that he is also potentially an abuse victim as well may as well as maybe a perpetrator well I think that's a common Trope abuse is sort of a communicative disease I would say and so you know where why why is this you misunderstand my point um so he so so he was never prosecuted on that he was arrested right yeah he himself was a teenager and also the potentially a victim of aew in

that scenario I just don't want people just to hear that and go and think of Brock Pierce as just like some guy in his 40s who was arrested I just want the context of that in there sure because I'm not defending him um and also on the Epstein thing one of the things I did want to ask you we might as well deal with it now um Whitney is Epstein connected is a weird term for me in that clearly Epstein was a pedophile clearly had a black book of people that we still yet to fully

see who are connected with him but there is a world where pre-exposure to Epstein being a pedophile someone could be introduced to him at a meeting told he's somebody who can invest and they've invested in his company they've got no idea who he is that he has his pedophile Island um and that himself is like a abusing people yet because they've taken money from him having met him before this all exposed they're now called Epstein connected and so like it becomes this thing where it can follow you around when you innocently accepted money do you

understand the point I'm trying to make yeah I I absolutely see what you're saying but I think you know people that actually follow and read might work on Epstein so there I would argue there has been an effort from the day he was arrested in 2019 to frame the spectrum of Epstein discussion specifically about the sex trafficking and the abuse and Epstein's career was much larger than that I have argued consistently that more than anything else Epstein was involved in Shadow banking suspect currency trading uh and was arguably really a financial terrorist okay just as

much as he was a sex trafficker so I would argue that a lot of the connections mainly in like like for example in his black book of contact contacts that we uh is publicly available for example a lot of those I would argue are based around a lot of these Financial connections some of them are not so if you look at the black book The but Epstein's Butler went around and circled names of people who were involved explicitly according to him in the sex trafficking stuff and a lot of the most of the names are

not circled right so when I say Epstein connected you know I hope that people uh understand or have taken the time to either read my work or watch my interviews on Epstein because I've explicitly said that um you know not everyone associated with is a pedophile and people have tried to do that and make Epstein uh pedophile only right and obviously he was that but he was a lot more than that and he would and I think you know the fact that there's been so little interest for example in his documented role and the collapse

of Bear Sterns in 2008 his role in money laundering and connection with banks like BCCI which were also sex trafficking prepubescent kids for Elites of the the the Emirates in the 1980s and stuff there's been no interest in looking into that kind of stuff uh no interest interest in looking at his ties with big tech for example his efforts to Rebrand as a big Tech and also fentech investor um and in the case of Brock Pearson Epstein uh this happened after his first arrest uh the meeting and uh Pierce has said that all of his

conversations with Epstein were related directly to cryptocurrency so EP someone like Epstein and with the financial history of Epstein his interest arguably in cryptocurrency is to continue to engage in the same criminal and bad financial behavior that he had done for the decades prior so whatever he was talking to pierce about from Epstein Epstein's motives would have been to find ways to use cryptocurrency or help develop and guide the cryptocurrency industry in ways that would help enable the activity that he had consistently engaged in for uh decades and decades and decades was pierce willingly enabling

that I don't know but I think you know it's it's worth asking those questions because in the past like in the case of den he's kept questionable company was he an abuse victim and in that gray area it's quite possible you know I've argued in the case of galain Maxwell that she sort of could potentially have fallen in that category as well because I think there is some evidence that she was um abused by her father Robert Maxwell in that way uh and then sort of he died and she sort of uh instead of him

being her you know Handler I guess you could say she's sent to Epstein who you know is alleged to have worked with Robert Maxwell and intell related Financial stuff um in the 1980s and then she you know basically becomes the person helping him arrange his stuff and basically serving a lot of the same purposes that she helped her father do um you know but instead it's with abstein you know I can't put numbers or percentages on it but I don't know if it's a majority or large part but I think now the the strong narrative

around Epstein is not Financial terrorist it it is pedophile that was explicitly done on purpose yeah yeah and and fine but but what mean is it's like it's it's good to clear get that narrative clear because if people are I think if they hear EP connected they think oh have you been are you in the flight logs did you travel to the island did you have business dealings with him post firstest in 2019 but not everyone on the plane is necessarily a pedo either you know uh but I think you know going on a plane

with him and being around him and being affiliated with him uh s suggests that you're involved in some of the stuff he was doing and it was not exclusively sex trafficking yeah if anything I would argue that sex trafficking and sex blackmail was really like a side thing for Epstein side gig side hustle and that his real job is was currency manipulation and that's why you have like letters to heads of state being like I want to talk to you about Jeffrey Epstein and currency stabilization when that exact Administration was developing a plan to stabilize

Mexico's currency and someone tied up in the cabal of currency Traer traders that Epstein was in according to like the New York Times and stuff was the person who shorted the peso and made millions of dollars and and Epstein visits the Clinton White House 17 times the first time he's invited it's by this Ruben rubb which you know Robert Rubin being the the head of the treasury at that time well not at that time he became he was head of the National Economic Council and became head of the treasury but he's he's the first guy

to invite him in essentially and Robert Rubin was previously head of Goldman Sachs uh which has a lot of connections both to Steve minuchin's family and that's where Steve minuchin was um originally and also a lot of this network of billionaires that were sort of uh included Epstein's Patron Leslie Wexner sort of the group of oligarchs that Wexner Associates himself with were largely responsible for the rise of people like Robert Rubin within Goldman Sachs and Goldman Sachs has a very intimate connection with a lot of those um you know families in that particular group which

The Wall Street Journal named the mega group um in the late 90s uh and this includes the Brom men so for example the top people the Weinberg for example who ran Goldman Sachs for a long time um were on seag they managed a trust for the bronan family um and things like that along with you know mob connected figures like Lou waserman of MCA um who also had intelligence ties and backed you know uh most of the main presidential candidates of the latter half of the 20th century in the United States and made Ronald Reagan's

political career happen and and the connections of Goldman directly with Brock also with Steve Bannon being a you know longtime member there coming in and taking over at IG which is the company that he ran before that was selling World of Warcraft gold um that was sort of the introduction to a lot of these guys into currency manipulation uh in the digital sphere um you know they were running you know you know after Brock out arrest you know all that stuff kind of went down we'll call it nebulus if you want I totally get that

but when that went down he kind of you know went into the digital sphere and and he got really involved and basically cornered and dominated the market of digital Goods you know kind of before Bitcoin was the thing and the in the 2000s in World of Warcraft it's actually kind of a common story uh for a lot of these folks like the teal fellow vitalic butan who started ethereum you know he he got into uh you know doing ethereum as sort of this Unstoppable digital currency thing because his his character got nerfed on World of

Warcraft and he was very upset that he lost you know damage points or whatever on his casting but so so Bannon comes in and actually replaces him directly uh at the as the head of the company when he stepped down and you know someone like Steve Bannon too was also involved around the same time that that pierce was associating with Epstein very involved in trying to rehabilitate Epstein's image as he was moving to uh reinvent himself as like a Science and Tech investor yeah so like why were these why why are these people making these

decisions I mean they obviously didn't care because even at that point in time after his first arrest Epstein described himself as being socially radioactive so these are people that are just like no that's fine and like we we see something useful in you and we want to help you make that Rebrand why I would argue it has to do with the role that Epstein played in finances and that is also the reason you know why Leslie Wexner chose him to uh basically run and manage all of his money uh because right before Epstein came into

the Wexner Circle uh wexner's tax lawyer was shot in the face in broad daylight uh the police investigation document says that it was organized crime and Leslie Wexner that did it and that Leslie Wexner is linked to organized crime that report was destroyed the murder is listed as unsolved and right and it the murder happened the day before the lawyer was going to testify to the IRS about unspecified tax Havens and then Epstein sweeps in and starts untangling wexner's complicated finances at the limited and then you have the Limited at that time having a figure

on the board named Alan tesler who was involved with aspects of the promised software Scandal uh which is where uh Israeli intelligence and the CIA essentially put a back door into like every Security Agency um and Robert Maxwell was intimately um involved with that but Alan tesler the architect of that one of them was a man named Earl Bryan and Allan tesler was a lawyer for Earl Bryan and also on the board of the limited and involved with all you know really this whole network at the same time I mean a lot of very weird

stuff is happening in this crowd but if you look at what they were doing uh which you know I I do in detail in my book it's a mix of financial crime and trying to dominate Tech and that's why you have like the max sisters after Robert Maxwell died the twins uh create the first search engine and things like that and Isabelle Maxwell goes on to be a major player in in in Israel's uh high-tech system Christine Maxwell teams up with a a CIA top guy for um I forget like the CIO of the CIA

uh to develop a company called Kad that was basically being used after 911 uh to uh analyze all of this anti- like war on terror data and all of this stuff I mean it's it's uh just very it's endless Well it Well it's important to understand that there was a explicit effort to limit the discussion about Epstein to make it just about the sex crime so you don't look at anything else right and he specifically was managing money for the bromm during the insider trading that was what actually why he came down well it was

suspected because Bear Sterns uh had the bromm as a tax client and Epstein left be Sterns because of allegedly because he was um going to be he the SEC was investigating an insider trading Scandal involving the bronfman's owned company serums and um they the SEC was tipped off that Epstein had information about that and they went to question him at be Sterns and then he was let go and there's a lot of you know he gave different reasons as to why he was let go and so did uh the bank but there's um you know

a significant body of reporting supporting that it was related to that insider trading Scandal which also involved people from Drexel Burnham Lambert and the junk bonds and you see a lot of Drexel people swimming around Epstein afterwards um like Leon black for example who led their murgers and acquisition Acquisitions department and were involved and you know all sorts of financial criminality Leon Black's the name that I it seems to be one of the most prominent names that has come out of his black book and there suspicions about some significant loan that he gave or amount

of money he gave to Epstein to manage I seem to remember yeah I for I forget the exact figure but it's astronomically high and also was man managing his family foundation and Epstein also uh you know was a trustee on the Wexner foundation and involved in all sorts of philanthropic efforts and in that same period of time you know he's visiting the white house uh regularly um and he's going on official like Microsoft business trips with Microsoft's Chief technology officer and then later in 2001 tells um uh you know the the UK's evening standard that

he made all of his money uh because of ties to Donald Trump Leslie Wexner and Bill Gates and and people act like Bill Gates and Epstein didn't meet until 2011 when he was no longer affiliated with Microsoft you know I mean there's been a huge cover up of all of these other connections of Epstein there um and um you know I feel like my whole purpose as it relates to epsteen research is to make people aware of that because you know I would argue that the reason Epstein went to prison and all of that stuff

happened is because there was a major factional uh issue uh within this group and there was a part there were particular interests that wanted EP out and they wanted you know to to demonize him and make him look very bad um but they didn't want too enough to come out that it would implicate stuff they were also involved in or had previously been involved in in the past and and just a fun little note on this whole on this whole thing is uh one of the co- signes of the J Epstein Foundation is this guy

Bill elkus who kind of came out of the ideal Labs group uh in in the 90s and they were the first Founders uh of of PayPal uh extreme early on they were the the first people uh so he was directly connected to Epstein right there he goes on and founds clear stone with William Quigley who is one of the co-founders of tether also so we have these kind of direct connections there to PayPal the Epstein to tether it's kind of all you know interestingly coming together Epstein was involved with cryptocurrency discussions with Pierce he gave

an interview where he uh raved about the potential of Bitcoin not as a currency but as a digital asset um in 2017 Elizabeth Stark has come out and said that you know Epstein tried to give her money she said no why was Epstein trying to invest in light lightning labs and all of this stuff like what's going on here why was he so close to joyo at MIT media lab and and you know he was involved ETO involved in launching the digital currency initiative that in that epin influence that at all we don't know um

and there's been really very little media interest in finding out any of the answers to those questions is Epstein Satoshi just kidding