Marianne Williamson: Activating Miracles with the Power of Love

[Music] welcome to the heal with Kelly podcast I'm Kelly nunen goris and every week I speak to the leading doctors healers spiritual teachers and scientists to find out what is truly possible when it comes to Healing I also interview real people with extraordinary healing stories My Philosophy is what's possible for one is possible for all thank you for joining me on this beautiful journey of remembering our divine nature and tapping into the truths that shall set us free all right every body welcome back to the heel with Kelly podcast I am just over the moon

thrilled to have Maryann Williamson here with me today back on the podcast in this really you know perfect time to be alive we are in the fire of of transformation and she has written this new book it's called The Mystic Jesus the mind of love and much like a return to love for me when I read it at 19 years old and completely changed the course of my life and got align to my spiritual truth um I think this book The Mystic Jesus is coming at the perfect time again for me and the collective so

marann welcome to the show oh thank you it's always great to talk to you and uh I'm honored to be here thank you Kelly yeah I mean a little bit about Maryanne Williamson if you don't know but obviously she was in heel and for more than four decades Maryann Williamson has been a leader of spiritually Progressive circles she is the author of 16 books four of which have been number one New York Times bestsellers and a quote from the mega bestseller of Return To Love which is what I mentioned before that you might have heard

is our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure and that is a considered an Anthem for a contemporary generation of seekers of which I consider myself to be um so let's just dive in and talk about the Mystic Jesus what how did this book come to you and why now well actually uh this book came about because I got a call from my editor who said you know we get phone calls from book sellers saying people keep asking for books about Jesus that aren't books

about Christianity he said isn't that kind of what you talk about I said yeah uh as someone who has written and uh spoken uh about A Course in Miracles the Course in Miracles uses traditional Christian terms including a conversation about Jesus from which the book from whom the book came but in decidedly non-traditional psychotherapeutic ways uh Jesus in the course of Miracles is seen as an elder brother a kind of evolutionary elder brother someone who has actualized fully the Divine potential that is within all of us and having done so uh has been authorized by

God to help the rest of us should we should we request it if we don't request it that's fine too um that's up to our own free will this is not a this book is not about the historical figure a man who lived 2,000 years ago which is obviously an extraordinarily important powerful topic on the planet this however is about a non-exclusive spiritual force of Consciousness which is not given birth in a Manger 2,000 years ago but also given birth into the world in any moment that our hearts are open in love to one another

so it's about taking the story of his life and applying it as a kind of psychological guidance system to the lives that we're living right now and um that's what the course of Miracles that's where it takes the conversation around him and uh I was thrilled to have the opportunity to write the book I mean everything you talk about whenever I'm asked like who would you meet throughout time who would you sit down with and ask questions it's you know I was raised Catholic but the religion side the you know the rules and the regulations

and the guilt and the shame and the Judgment none of that resonated um or after a while it got very burdensome but I always resonated with the stories of Jesus and I just had this knowing early on that he was teaching us not from a superior place but from a place of I've tapped into what it means to be a spiritual person having a human Incarnation I've remembered my Divinity and I'm here to show you that it's possible for you as well yes he says in the course I am in a state that is only

potential in you I don't have anything you don't have the difference between us is I don't have anything else and what you experien is what so many millions of people have experienced I don't want the uh Doctrine I don't want the Dogma I don't want the institutional organized religion and all of the stuff that goes with that but I don't want to throw away the baby with the bath water it's not like I'm trying to disconnect with God many people have come to feel that the institution that purports to broker their relationship with God has

actually done more to disconnect um than to connect them with the actual experience and that's what I think people are yearning for today we to too often Jesus has come to feel like um something on the third floor of a big Museum underglass in this musty room and there's a sense can he be liberated from all that uh St Augustine said this is ever ancient ever new and I also feel Kelly that it's part of a larger thing going on on the planet we are rethinking everything rethinking politics rethinking our relationship to Nature rethinking food

rethinking medicine obviously rethinking healing and so the rethinking of spiritual and spirituality in religion is very much a part of that larger I think evolutionary impulse of the of the species by which we seek to individuate from certain systems We inherited but now we're sorting through and going well what do I want to keep and what do I want to drop what do I want to regreen what do I want to make new and uh give new life and that's what I think is happening with Jesus says with so many things and I feel that

you know everything that I've talking to with and you mentioned this in in return to love but it's just now coming back around and I love how you talk about back when you wrote that book your you know you talked about forgiveness and your biggest example of forgiveness back then was getting you know having to for give someone who stood you up to a date to the Olympics you know and like I just love that you you're so vulnerable in that book because we think we know so much at every phase of life and it's

about this you know like everything that's coming to my Consciousness is about dropping from The Head and the ego and this story and this narrative based on our conditioning that's causing our suffering the circumstances are just the circumstances divinely or orchestrated by you know magnetics and quantum physics and you know Destiny and purpose but it's our story about them based on our fears and wounding that causes the suffering so everything that I'm aware of right now and your book kind of nails it is dropping from the the mental sphere the ego and the fear into

the heart and being into and coming from Love and coming and when you drop into the heart it there's just you you just have this expansiveness you're able to respond to life and see rather than and react out of this fear and wounding if that Mak sense yeah the course of Miracle says uh Enlightenment begins as abstract concept and then makes a journey without distance from the head to the heart um James doie the neuro uh uh neurologist the neurophysician over at um Stanford Medical School talks about how scientists have realized now that there is

a connection between the brain and the Heart kind of Highway and partnership that they didn't even used to recognize that there it used to be believed that the brain alone was the intelligence center of the body now they realize the two together are the intelligence center of the body and it seems to me that's true about our lives it's true about our society the brain disconnected from the heart is not intelligent it is not healthy uh it can lead uh to to dysfunction as much as to function and um I think that that journey of

Enlightenment is coming to be seen as a very experiential practical Journey that we take every day of our lives every moment of Our Lives when we either make the enlightened decision or the unenlightened decision meaning every moment we're choosing sometimes consciously sometimes unconsciously will my heart be open or will I be in withhold will I have a bar over my heart or will I have an open heart of gracious response to whatever is happening in this moment and all thought the idea here of course is that thought is so powerful all thought creates form on

some level and that whatever you think cause and effect means you will set a trajectory of events according to that thought so Jesus becomes a psychological guide an internal teacher like with your attitudinal muscle just like you hire a trainer to help you in the gym he's like helping you train your attitudinal muscles go for the gracious thought not the cynical thought the loving thought not the judgmental thought and it is living in this world about retraining our muscles because there's there's emotional gravity just like there's external physical gravity if you're not working at keeping

those muscles up they're headed down and uh the idea of someone to help someone to guide someone who is that elder brother who has who has already gotten there and then been authorized by God to help us if we so choose the course is not saying he's the only name on the on the door of that portal to unconditional love but um if he's yours you come to know it and if he's yours and you do feel that way I hope this book is helpful I love that and every time while I'm listening to the

book and I love listening to the book because your voice you've been such a warrior you know you've got youve like just you're a spiritual Warrior a light Warrior but you've gotten this you know and I remember I will never forget this in our last interview it was around Co and I was really like amped up about you know just the censorship and the fear and and and you said you know if you have a child a child under five you get a pass from having to be an activist because that energy is of it's

a certain energy that you're calling into your life and right now you should be creating and molding this sacred you know conditions for your child um and I've always remembered that now she's five so like I'm not the door back Kelly I'm back but um I just I want to reflect back to you my friend Andrea Quinn and I were talking she she introduced you at Marcy Cole's first Tuesday the other night um but she there's just a change in like you're stepping into this feminine softness of just like you're almost just rather than needing

people to understand because of the just the collective fear of of where this world is going if we don't all step up and be the change that we wish to see I don't know there's just this like beautiful feminine like gravity to your your voice and in the way you you so I've been enjoying listening to you speak about thank you thank you so much so um talk about the sacred morning another part in heal that I often refer to is how important mental hygiene is and it's your quote we shower off the gunk of

our day um physically it's just accepted in society that we must do so in order to stay healthy and socially acceptable um but it's so important to do the mental spiritual hygiene so that we can set the tone of the day um and have more space to respond and more of a connection with the Divine so that we have more compassion and Grace with other people and and what's going on so talk about the sacred morning well you wake up in the morning you have dirt on your body you have you know Gunk on your

body you you take a shower you take a bath you brush brush your teeth but we also have stress on our minds and it's not only our own stress we're picking up stress from people all over the world and of course you want to purify your body before you go out into the day but if you don't purify your mind through prayer through meditation or through reflection through mindfulness whatever your practice is if you don't align your nervous system with that Holy place within yourself the holy place within yourself is the whole place within yourself

the healed and whole and healthy place within yourself the spiritual path um you know the course of Miracle says that their Peak Psychotherapy and religion are the same thing it's about healing the mind so we are living particularly at a time right now when the cacophony of of the world social media the mean-spiritedness of this time all of it's like assaulting us 247 and if you wake up in the morning and you just give yourself over to that and you go immediately to the news or to social media or whatever you're just saying to the

to the craziness of the world come on eat me alive here here's my nervous system here's my brain take it and then there's no reason to be mystified while you're depressed by noon so taking that time in the morning to just like in yoga when you train your muscles into correct positioning you train your mind into correct positioning what is correct positioning I am here as an instrument of love I'm only here to extend love may everyone that I meet today feel blessed on some level where would you have me go what would you have

me say what would you have me do and what you want me to say to whom you just align yourself you get on the spiritual wagon now that doesn't mean we're going to be enlightened Masters throughout the day it doesn't mean we're never going to fall off but the probability of our falling off off is less and when we do fall off the wagon we get tempted we get upset about something we get scared about something we can put ourselves back up we we're developing attitudinal musculature and it's no different than physical exercise if you

do it it works if you don't do it it doesn't work if you do those accumulated repetitions of POS positivity it's anti- emotional gravity and um I think everybody has come to realize whether it's about food whether it's about exercise we're kind of at a point Kelly and I think this is now true about spirituality also we all know these things the era of data collection is over now it's a time of application and application on a more sober and serious level than ever before the world needs each of us right now to show up

at our best at our most powerful so this is not just about oh so that I'll have mental health it's also so I in my mental state of mental health will be a major contributor to this evolutionary leap that absolutely we must make right now so talk a little bit about because I I there's so many places I want to go with this but I'm I'm in awe of the state of the world just in the example of what went down politically last week and how we are so divided with two sides saying that the

other side is unhinged or lost their mind or asleep and like both sides think the other side is completely ignorant and asleep and it's like it's it's it's back to that you know obviously there's a lot of fear that has infected um this you know Zeitgeist and the Collective but and I and social media algorithms is you know feeding this and feeding you more of what you believe and and and putting fuel on the device of fire but give us your perspective on how to come back into Unity when there's so much wrong making you

know where I'm just trying to stay neutral and go like this is this is this like patriarchal pimple popping like systems need to break down it may not look like how we think it should look like it's not certainly not pretty or perfect but you know I don't know I'm just trying to stay neutral and and I'm just in awe of this like the both sides thinking the other side is crazy and completely wrong and asleep and ignorant well I don't think it's about neutrality it's about realizing that both sides are right about that um

in a free Society we don't all have to agree nobody owes it to you to agree with you where there is so much meanness at people for having the audacity to not agree with me and that kind of arrogance that kind of self-righteousness is on the left and on the right so with everything it's the issue of what are you demonstrating and that's honor that's respect for people I notice in politics a lot these days there are people I don't agree with that are making some important points and people that I've agree with on policy

who are acting like absolute jerks so I I I think all of us have to have to step back and remember what is happening in this country in a free Society everybody gets to have their opinion nobody has a monopoly on truth and nobody gets to own this country I mean even when somebody one side wins an election that doesn't mean the rest of us don't have a voice I mean you know that that's what a free Society is and I think at this point it's always the change in us it's to isue the mean

spiritedness that's out there do you know what I mean yes I mean no nobody no president no Administration is going to do everything right everything wrong according to any one person's any one person's View and elections have consequences um you know I I was certainly in the belly of the Beast so I have a lot of um opinions about that and I feel on my side of the aisle um not having voted for Trump a lot of the people who were most excited who were most upset about it did nothing over the last year and

a half to really help us provide what I think would have been a compelling alternative so I think everybody has to look at ourselves right now and do our part you know the majority of Americans if you actually look at the polls and you actually look at issues we are not so divided we're not a majority of Republicans as well as Democrats not as big a majority but a majority want Universal Health Care a majority of Republicans as well as Democrats not um as big a majority but a majority want tuition free college and tech

school a majority of Americans do want the environment taken better care of a majority of Americans do want Fair taxation so we're living at a time when the real dichotomy is not between left and right so much of that is created like you said by the algorithms by media that's taking advantage of all that um and that that's not the way the miracle comes from love the miracle comes from Mutual honor and respect obviously on both sides of the political aisle obviously there are Fringe extreme elements that should con concern any of us but that's

not where the majority of Americans live if you actually talk to one another if you actually talk to one another and I think we need to not only be talking uh to the people that we know already agree with us totally I have wonderful friends family members that I'm extremely close to that I consider extremely intelligent and may not see eye to eye and I I believe that this this situation is helping us go okay bringing us back to like let's love the human regardless of of what's going on it's like abely this is not

meant to break up relationships I've had forever like let's let all of that play out and still be friends on the human level that's not what dictates our life you know you know when I was growing up we had these Sunday morning breakfast right so this is the kinds of things that be said my my uncle would say kids don't listen to your father you'll never make a dime my father would say kids don't listen to your uncles they'll not survive the Revolution and then my mother would come in okay who wants white fish who

wants roast beef I mean it was like there was a sense of humor in those days it was a sense of humor where did it go yeah well it it was it was actually we were trained out of it um there's a wonderful book by Matt taibe called hate Inc and he talked about how it was first Roger ALS who realized wow there's a lot of money to be made in creating this Crossfire mentality and then on the left they did it too with MSNBC I remember years ago I was at the US capital and

I was meeting Dennis cinic there and um we were going upstairs to have lunch in the House dining room at that time it was during the Clinton impeachment trials and one of the people who was the most um you know a surate on television a lot was then Congressman now Senator Lindsey Graham and he was just pounding on Clinton and pounding on Clinton and pounding on Clinton so I'm with Dennis cenage who is a major Peace Department of Peace person so we're waiting the elevator door opens and there's lindsy Graham and I'm immediately bristling because

I'm watching him on television be so awful to to um Clinton and I watched these Two Bros hey how you doing Dennis hey how you doing Lindsay and they're like hugging and I'm like I just I'm just like how could he even talk to him right so lindsy Graham gets out of the elevator the doors closed and Dennis says to me what's with you I said Dennis he is like saying horrible things about Clinton every single he's every single night he said oh Maran that's just on television we all just do that on television we're

well good friends he and I have worked on of stuff so I thought oh great look how this has poisoned this country they on television they act one way and of course at this point now because of all that it's not even just on television so we have to go back to cultivating our own healthy patterns and that has as much to do with healthy relationship patterns as anything else I know when Clinton was not when Trump was elected the first time I have two close girlfriends who are Trump supporters and I know millions of

Americans went through this we had to work at it and find the place to protect the sacred bonds of affection and we did yeah I love it I you know as I'm we're talking about this it's so clear that you know the people on the left that are that feel so genuine fear that Trump is in office and their rights are threatened and you know all of the things that they're fearing they feel powerless so they come out in a in a defense of anger and righteousness and so all of that and I've just come

through most intense emotional period of my life I haven't really talked about this publicly but I'm separated from my husband and going through a divorce and I've had to it's like rocked my Foundation I've had to qu just really look at even though it's my kind of initiation just really like looking at my ideas of security and safety and really you know knowing that my my hypothesis or my conclusion about healing is that it's all a remembering of where we come from and who we are these perfect Divine whole Spiritual Beings coming into this 3D

illusion of Separation um having this Human Experience which comes with tremendous pleasure and and tremendous pain and suffering and so you know I just want to encourage it's just such a powerless place to be to be so reactive to this external political climate the world like you said we still have our voice we have so much power so I think you know my my work recently is just finding the Safety and Security in myself which only comes from this belief that life is for us and never again says it's happening for us not to us

and this connection to the Christ consciousness of of Grace and having those practices to to keep me connected and calling in with prayer which every time you read a prayer um or or suggest a prayer the audible version just brings peace over my body you know so I guess I just want to ask about that like the Miracles of the Course in Miracles talks about it's just a shift in perception it's it's a healing of your perception it's a cleansing of the lens through which we're looking through and that's when the spiritual practices what they

do every morning it's just cleansing the Len and getting Len and getting us back into that connection of who we really are the only thing I would add to that is including other people the key is the human being in front of you or the human being you're even thinking about you can't have that peace just by thinking you can connect with God but leave out other people you know I remember in Lay there's that lyric to love another person is to see the face of God so I think we've all been through that period

where people don't matter I'm looking for my relationship with God but our relationship with God is in our relationship with other people our willingness to bless other people our willingness to atone and take responsibility when we ourselves have wronged other people our willingness to forgive people who made mistakes in regard to us um it's a gritty path at times a messy path at times but the course of Miracles presents life as though it's intentional like when you said it's happening for you not to you it's happening for you in that every situation carries within it

a possibility and a Temptation every situation and the course Miracles points us out that every circumstance is a relationship there are always people involved in that somehow you are invited by every situation hey you know where you do it well you could do it even better hey you are invited in this situation to expand to open to even be better than you've ever been however the situation will also tempt you to fall back into ego default patterns so it it's it's a moment by moment am I showing up am I being my best am I

recognizing that something sacred is happening here if I bring the sacred into it two people join together for instance okay you and me you bring your talents I bring my talents be happening unless both of us were here and then what's the Consciousness is the Consciousness to really hold a space hoping the other does well too so that we can exponentially increase what either one of us could do by ourselves or are you looking at it like you're just not kind of totally present you're hoping what you might get out of it I mean we've

all this is and then life will unfold According to which decision we make consciously or unconsciously so yeah life is happening for us but the fact is happening for you doesn't mean it's going to be easy if you don't show up for it totally right and which brings us into forgiveness because it is such a gritty path like I'm getting to I'm in this situation where this person completely there's deception there's lies there's attack there's extortion like just really you know my ego self is like you know want to wants to just strangle this person

who's doing all this stuff to me and and you know or to us or to to whoever and I I wish I could come up with a better example but I want to use a real life example because I'm in it and I can see the gifts in the circumstance and so I can I can get I I've gotten to a place where I'm like okay this is happening it's I'm looking at the mirror of what it's reflecting back to me as far as like where perhaps I've abandoned myself or I have not been truthful

or seeing you know honored myself or whatever it is that that that it's teaching me I see the gift in the circumstance because it's propelling me to take action in a certain direction but I I'm not quite forgiving the person yet because there's such a vile human in my mind you know what I mean so like how I definitely know what you mean is it important to forgive that person like like I just I I'm looking at I'm trying to look at them like a role in this Divine drama that I've my Soul's orchestrated for

itself for its growth and so like I can get there and like kind of put some separation but I really just want to knock her in the face you know the answer is yes but not immediately okay it's a journey so try running for president of the United States oh I know everybody everybody's going through it right now I don't know anybody who's not going through this major crucifixion of self and the crucifixion pattern is when the Eco mind somebody's Loveless would invalidate your love and invalidate your truth and seek really to destroy you on

some level everybody's going through it right now because it's it's like um everybody's got their own personal Armageddon and who we are becoming because of it is going to be better than we were before it even happened but you have to see it and I think that you do see it the way you described it the experience itself is a sacred Crucible so this is the moment and I know you know all this what's the food you eat make sure you exercise watch drugs and alcohol be careful because you need all of your all of

your faculties that could possibly help you hold this with Grace because this is a perfect example of what I mean if you can handle this with Grace think how much more advanced you will be and if you fall back into Old patterns then you will actually conspire in creating a a repetitive pattern on the other side of this like you said the point is to learn to atone for your own mistakes the course of Miracle says you have to take 100% responsibility for your life experience if you don't then the price you pay that will

be that you won't be able to change it and I think you indicated that already how did I conspire with this where was I un where did I was I willing to play along and and go blind because I didn't want to see where did I sell out myself where did I not show up you know it's hard it's hard it's not just forgiving the other person too it's forgiving yourself and and even in forgiving the other person sing how did I let that person in the room how did I right so it's so and

it takes time and that's uh represented metaphysically by the three days between the crucifixion and the resurrection which is also in the Old Testament the 40 years in the desert now this is the thing to remember and I I know you know this I know that this would not be new to you only have the most sacred friends around you at the time you want to process this but not spew it you want to honor your feelings but not indulge your feelings it really takes it's it's it's a surgery of the Soul right now this

is the thing you go into the tomb you're crucified you go into the tomb and in that tomb in the cave is when you're processing it you're doing all that we're talking about right in the dark in the darkness of the Sacred Space when the women come to get the body of Jesus after 3 days the Angels thoughts of God say oh he's not here he's risen what does that mean that means Kelly will be molecularly rearranged you do this work you won't even be the same Kelly and you're sure as hell won't be a

Kelly who's open to that stuff again correct and that's what forgiveness will grant you but I think you know it's what we used to call the dark KN of the Soul and you know I I was talking to my friend uh Mary morsy and she was talking about that book in St John and Dark Night of the soul and she was talking about the fact that it's not if it happens it's when it happens and if you are really close to people around you right now everybody's going through stuff and of course because of the

political situation we're all a part of this major crucifixion of the United States our Karma's up right right but so it's the same thing collectively that we're going through personally so I wish you well but I also you know uh when I was in college we were all reading the Carlos Cena books did you ever read the Carlos Cena books I I think that was before your time okay so we were all reading these books about this uh uh Mexican really they were Mexican magicians they were amazing and this Don Juan was his name and

then the women were taesa abalar and um I forgot the other one anyway it's a marvelous Mexican magic tradition so Carlos Cena has this this um Shaman danan so one day he goes to see Dan Juan and he tells Don Juan about this neighbor who was the most horrible thing and he was so rude to him and he was so mean and he sabotaged and he undermined and he was absolutely horrible so Don Juan tells uh no caros K tells Donan the story and he looks and danan starts dancing and singing this is fantastic this

is so great and Carlos G is what do you mean I'm telling you this is the worst person in the world he said when you find that person pushes your buttons that much triggers you that much that means you have that much of an exponential pent potential to learn so see this even this is sacred but you can't rush it you can't the Forgiveness I'll tell you something the other night I was thinking about someone in in my life with my situation that I went through and forgiveness has been particularly hard and uh you know

if only you know I could go on and on yes so one night I said a little prayer and I start scrolling and I see uh Wayne Dyer with Nick ortner doing a tapping exercise I forgive I don't want to forgive but I will forgive all it's tapping I don't and I saw Wayne Dyer I don't want to forgive but I will forgive I don't want to do it but I will do it I don't want to do it and it was thank you thank you but uh it takes time it's the season of your

pain I wrote a book called tears to Triumph a few years ago about that Dark Night of the soul and about suffering and about what Buddha says about it what Mo story of Moses says about it what the story of um Jesus and I open with a line from reala let me not squander the hour of my pain this is a sacred time in your life as painful as it is this too is sacred yes and I see how it's just lining up I'm I want to do the next film about emotion and I'd love

to ask you further like H how you process in the Tomb because we're never given you know we kind of are starting to understand the nervous system and how when we get triggered we're in fight or flight and we can't heal when we're in sympathetic we've got to get it back into parasympathetic but everybody's in sympathetic nervous system all the time yeah but that's what meditation and prayer are about yeah yeah I mean that's that's what meditation prayer mindfulness these ancient techniques in some cases that's what they do for us you can't think yourself into

a different place in your nervous system you can't it's not an intellectual shift we kind but this is an example of what I meant Kelly we do know what to do this is exactly what I meant don't go dumb at a time like this don't cuddle within yourself any any any even momentary thought that you haven't lived your entire life gaining the skills for just such a moment as this and now it's about applying them and the crucifixion what could be whether it's slavery of of the um the Israelites or whether it's the crucifixion of

Jesus serious spiritual principle speaks to human suffering you know in the story of sartha in Buddhism it's when he crossed crossed over the walls of his father's compound and saw suffering for the first time that's when his Enlightenment began so you honor your suffering too and one of the things about St John of the Cross and and um dark KN of the soul is that you encounter aspects of yourself that you love and that you realize I'm being strong here I'm burning through this because I could get on the phone I could text I could

tweet I could and I'm not doing any of that I'm not doing it right and uh uh you end up feeling on the other side of this that part of me that I'm gaining from this I want to take with me yeah I've just I've been really loving this quote by someone named Andrea dyra I think and it's um in order to love yourself you can't hate the experiences that shaped you good point that's a good one yeah exactly exactly I love exactly so I you you touch on the Mystic Mary in the book and

I I just I I feel like again as we step into the age of Aquarius and you know I know a little bit about a lot of those things um this kind of Rise of this like feminine energy this heart energy and you know the Dal Lama said the world would be saved by the Western woman I just speak to that as because I do feel like we need a large dose of love and and soft femininity strong femininity but soft well we've all heard people say that every figure in your dream is an aspect

of yourself and so what the book deals with is the idea that every figure in these religious stories is an aspect of yourself Mary would be seen as that divine feminine the humanness the human heart impregnated by God then giving birth to the Christ self giving birth to the expression of your best self which is you uh Mother by your humanness and father by God but don't forget Joseph is the Divine masculine I think sometimes we forget there's not just a divine feminine there's also a Divine masculine and the Divine masculine is the part of

the personality that uh makes sure you navigate with the material world while you're going through through this pregnancy of your better self you're still taking care of yourself even while you're going through this you're taking care of your child you're paying the rent whatever right the morgage whatever and so it's that balance so Mary yes represents that feminine aspect inside us all I remember a quote from uh Yoko Ono saying the femin the spiritualization process is a feminization process but the feminine as you also said is fierce she's not you know the divine feminine is

more than cut velvet Shaws and dancing under the moon she is stop right there if you're hurting that child she stop right there if you are uh harming this planet that my I intend for my grandchildren to live on so I I think that the women sometimes are afraid to show our fierce because the world projects onto it that's the whole witch burning thing the wise women were called witches and they were all that the the idea of evil was projected onto them because they were representing a power that the patriarchy had not uh allowed

had not gone through the patriarchal uh permission system right so the patriarchy loves a girl as long as were nice girls mhm we're not a threat right yeah Pard exactly exactly so I think we want to be careful with that because the patriarchy will call it anger right when really the same behavior in a man is called one thing and a woman's called oh she's angry or she's right so there's a fierceness I think to the divine feminine she's not kidding you have a child you said you have a 5-year-old anybody that has children but

particularly around adolescence usually having to do with drugs alcohol sex if you sense and in every Advanced Mamon species that survives and thrives a common characteristic is fierce behavior on the part of the adult female of the species if she senses a threat to her Cubs like black bears for example lions tigers they'll leave you alone you you even go near their babies they're coming after you and it could be argued that there's something very dysfunctional about the human species right now that we are as relatively complacent uh in front of some of the threats

profound threats to the to the to the human young so this Fierce part of us is called for now in this rise of the divine feminine and I think for every woman to realize um when you really have the divine feminine rise within you do not expect for the patriarchy to like you don't expect it and that's why if this whole idea of the divine feminine which really is just the spiritual aspect of feminism has got to include Sisterhood it's got to include Sisterhood none of us are going to make it unless all of us

make it and that's what I think is really an important um aspect of that convers ation that if you're really going to go out there as a woman and you are really going to uh seek to disrupt the patriarchy you will not always be approved of uh all kinds of casting like I I felt on my campaign almost like it was like witch burning you know this is how old this stuff is ancient she's crazy you can't listen to her she's crazy I'm sure you've gotten some of that with your work I mean you know

some a book that you would probably love is uh Barbara King solver no Barbara aronri please forgive me Barbara aronri years ago wrote a book about the witches I remember saying to somebody in left-wing politics about Barbara aronri writing a book about the witches this person said oh she would never have written a book about that I said you might want to check that out online she sure as hell did and what she talked about was how these women who knew about the medicinal power of herbs knew about plants knew about a Divine connection to

Nature as the very Genesis of what we would one day know as Western Scientific uh medical models were emerging the wisdom of these women that was not vetted by those systems was considered a threat so I I think that that's a really important thing about the rising power of women today the system is fine with a woman being empowered as long as she reads from the old script as long as she reads from the old script then then that's great look good honey and like look at the Statue of Liberty given where we are today

we love the Statue of Liberty why you read read that poem by Emma lasarus on the Statue give me you're hungry give me your tire give me your your masses yearning to be free are we living at a time when we're going to practice that or should we take this take it down because right now we just love the statue she looks wonderful but it's what she says so I I think that it it it's time for us to move on now from some of the easy convers it's like oh the rise of the divine

feminine um I and I know that I'm not the probably you share this how many times you meet men who say they love the divine feminine but they clearly have a problem with real women yeah I am more and more well not more and more but I'm meaning I'm meaning actually like men who are in their heart and you know there's going to be more that are you know reverent and fine I don't know like I I'm I'm getting shown examples not romantically but like especially business partner and it's really like and I think for

me I'm seeing so many like this example of this woman you know that's I want to strangle um I've I've been I've been seeing so many you know kind of the wrong end of the me too movement um again these women are driven by fear and and for me it's like I've been doing all this healing work to come back to myself heal my wounds so that I can you know understand my innate value rather than this story of people pleasing in perfectionism and you know external validation for worth and really drop into that Divinity

so that I and then when you're there you can you can stand you just you're you emanate a different strength because you're in a knowing and you're not efforting out of fear you know and that's what it's still still have fear based on the state of the world and like speaking up but I'm I'm stepping into more and more of just like this is my truth these are my priorities my child being the number one and um and it feels really good so well also it's hard to stay in this loving Center or place when

you're under attack because constant and ab abuse and attack which will be directed at the woman who truly stands up to disrupt the system put you in a state of of you know we talk about post-traumatic stress but present traumatic stress you know all the more reasons why to remember women at the at the when Jesus was crucified there were women who were at the cross women who came to get to the body and in our crucifixions in life that's your women friends even if the crucifixion comes through a woman which often it does because

of how much women have um in this culture today particular really internalized the mogy and internalize the patriarchy and they're the first ones to throw the stone it's very unfortunate yes that's why we have to raise our girls to understand this sacred responsibility not just to themselves there's a lot of that in America today girl understand your worth but we have to teach our girls and understand the worth of every girl around you too and to teach our son as well we have to be there for each other so much of the conversation that we

have now including the spiritual conversation is still about me it got to equally be about the people who are around you who are suffering as much as you are um none of us can make it unless all of us make it totally agree yeah I do I do the spiritual work so that I can have more compassion and Grace with myself I I think I'm speaking a lot about myself because i' I've went so far away from abandoning myself and putting other people first that now I'm like I've got to come back to me so

that I can't because I'm naturally giving I'm naturally you know wanting to help obviously at the extent of my naivity and getting taken advantage of by just vile people but so I've had to like come back with the easy marks you know well I I I want you to know Kelly it wasn't like I heard that in in what you were saying that's not what I was talking about at all and I believe me I very much understand what you're saying how did I let that person in the room how was I gaslit how was

I how was I vulnerable to that you know uh where was what I thought was love just a complete lack of sophistication and psychological astuteness no I understand completely yeah so I guess like in closing I know this is probably a big question but what gets me going is like the near-death experiences of like an Anita morani that reflect so many where people have or you know they have they dip their toe in that Bliss that source that field of you know omniscience and love and and you know that surpasses human understanding and and language

um and then they come back so they live a life without fear because they've they remember where they came from and where we're going back to I mean that's kind of the belief that I'm holding on to that when drama hits me across the face and I get sucked down the river of victimhood for a second and then I'm like okay wait this is for my growth I chose this and like how can I be a light in the world knowing that you know this is all you know Source this is all love like get

back to love get back into alignment with that source so what is I mean what's the what is your vision that keeps you centered like what's the game of life like why the heck are we here well we're here we are ideas in the mind of God we are love and we are here to extend that love so the atonement the reconnection between us and God but also between us and one another uh can become complete to kunam to repair the world to to to to fill in the breach but we also want to remember

that when you have those um spontaneous Enlightenment um experiences whether it was just a spontaneous thing whether it was through a psychedelic whether it was through a near-death experience it's life taking you to the top of the mountain just to show you it's not saying here's the top of the mountain and you can live here forever it's here's the top of the mountain now you're going to have to go back but don't forget what you saw up here because you're gonna have to climb it doesn't mean the bills aren't going to have to get paid

doesn't mean that other people aren't going to upset you but that memory of I know it's there I know it's there will fuel you and and and and strengthen your faith and make you remember there is something something to live up to here and that is the journey because I know where I'm going because I was there I had that experience so the grittiness of The Human Experience truth is is simple but life is complicated truth is easy but life is hard and all of it's okay you know to to not try to keep the

pain at Bay because like you know it this stuff happens and until we're perfect enlightened beings we're going to have our blind spots obviously you had a blind spot damn yeah big one you know but that's Kelly I don't know anyone who's not on the cross of these experiences right now and uh we just have to hold on to each other real tightly and really be there to support one another I appreciate the support you've given to me and uh this is a moment of great possibility too I know everybody's so upset right now but

this is also a moment I believe of real potential for regreening rebirth regeneration if we keep our hearts open to one another I believe that I truly believe that I totally do too I feel like it's just physics you know equal and opposite reaction we've gone so far off into the division like there's just going to be and a disconnection from nature and our nature and our true nature and we're going to come back and like you said this regreening that's so beautiful that's right well thank you thank you for coming on creating this great

beautiful WIS thank you thank you always nice to see you I wish you the best and good luck with everything thank you okay honey bye bye bye thank you for listening to the heal with Kelly podcast be sure to tune in every Thursday for more empowering wisdom and inspiring healing stories and make sure you hit the follow button on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss that one episode that holds the answer you've been searching for oh and if you found this episode inspiring please rate review and share heel with

Kelly so that we can grow our audience and reach more people we truly appreciate it lots of love