"Israel Has More Enemies Than EVER Before" Lowkey vs Piers Morgan

given that you categorize what Israel did to Hezbollah with the pages you said it was an act of Terror was what Hamas did on October the 7th an act of terrorism The Killing by the Israeli Air Force of Israeli citizens was an act of Terror you my question but I'm answering your question I'm talking about mass murder of people on October the 7th by the Israeli military see it's just absurd as I said to you then the picture is not clear of what exactly Hamas did to Israel incredibly ill informed about this I'm not concerned

about whether you think or don't think I have credibility I have a question for you based on for a minute at some point L you're going have to answer some of my questions I don't C at this from supporting either over the other are you sure about it yeah well many people know Loki as a rapper a playright and a poet but it's fair to say they even more know him as a fierce advocate for the rights of Palestinians and a fierce critic of Israel first and only time we've spoken was in the immediate aftermath

of October the 7th Israel and its supporters couldn't see beyond the horrors of that atrocity it critics were angered by how quickly it eclipsed Decades of Palestinian suffering and heralded a great deal more a lot has happened since then but has anything really changed Kareem Dennis better known as Loki joins me in the studio now and from Washington DC I'm joined by the Lebanese American author and activist briet Gabriel well welcome to both of you lucky we never met so it's good to meet you um we had a pretty fiery exchange last time when I

was in New York York and you were here passions were running very high I think it's fair to say from my experience of debate since there's been no dilution in the way people feel about this if anything I think views are getting more and more entrenched as it goes on what is your feeling about where we are now with this war and indeed the widening conflict with Israel apparently planning a a ground incursion into Lebanon well that initial interview there were three things that I stated which have since come clearly to fruition so the first

thing that I stated was that Mark regev belongs in the hag Israel is currently in the icj charged with genocide I also said that what Israel was doing in Gaza in an accumulative way over decades would amount with the military operation that they were about to launch to genocide and the third thing that I said which was which also now been proven to have been the case is that the Israeli military unfortunately implemented the Hannibal directive on October 7th and that just so viewers are aware is when Israel a key of course it was um

initially developed in Lebanon while trying to suppress the Lebanese population and stop them from battling the Israeli occupation um and it's whereby Israel takes measures to kill the captives who are Israeli that have been taken by the other side now that happened on October 7th and it's since been proven in three different cases it happened unfortunately after it's been denied by Israel to be clear it hasn't though it's been denied by certain upper echelons of the Israeli uh political establishment but there have been key figures um within the air force that have acknowledged that this

has taken place it's also been revealed by the alzer investigation and other places too have gone very but you would but you wouldn't say that the absolute vast majority of people killed and wounded October the 7th were indeed killed and wounded by Hamas because AP from anything else Hamas were boasting about it and filming it as they were doing it I think actually the majority of people that were killed on October 7th and off the back of the October 7th were the Palestinian Fighters that entered into what is considered to be Israel because they were

killed they were run over by cars they were their bodies were dismembered there's footage that came out of them being um killed many you you feel sorry for the Hamas terrorist came I'm stating objective facts as a journalist that has researched this topic what about the 12200 people who they murdered and the 7,000 they wounded no no no hundreds of those people were killed when Israel implemented the Hannibal Direct that's simply not true it simply is true and I and I encourage you in the Spirit of journalistic inquiry and curiosity to really look that up

it's already been thoroughly investigated it absolutely has not but it it has Lo it's been investigated by Al jazer it's been investigated by trustable news sources that have found this to be the case no it's not true that hundreds of people in those Nam casualty numbers on the Israeli side is killed by isra no it's a fact it's doent fact it's a documented fact and and you know what else if you were to study those cars which were put forth as evidence that Hamas had killed those people fleeing the Nova Festival the order came directly

from the Israeli Air Force this is a mass Hannibal this is a dead zone no cars will did you watch the doc did you watch the documentary last week on BBC 2 no about about the the music festival right you literally see Hamas Fighters with their GoPros going from cak car murdering people that happened yeah that happened why are you trying to diminish what the scale of what was going on I've just said that happened that doesn't equate to diminishing what you've just say hundreds you're diminishing you're diminishing aache helicopters bombing cars that contained civilians

you're diminishing all of the Israeli captives that have been killed by Israeli air strikes Israeli captives have come out of Gaza and said very clearly that actually they were scared of being killed by Israeli why are there hostages at all well this is of course an issue of 7 years of occupation of dispossession of ethnic cleansing you would support including Holocaust Survivors and babies you wouldn't support them I wouldn't take hostages no so should they hand them back I think if you look historically at where the return of actual hostages has happened you look at

the case of gilad Shalit this was a case where an Israeli soldier was given back in exchange for the release of Palestinian prisoners what you've actually seen in this case is a massive increase of Palestinian prisoners who are being tortured there's been examples of rape within um Israeli military camps the rapists have come out and become celebrities within Israeli Society 68% of the Israeli population say they oppose the prosecuting of people that have been implicated in rape within the dungeon system and if you really look at it Israel has far more chance of returning hostages

by negotiating for their release than by air striking them what Israel has done as part of this campaign is air strike and kill its own captives the captives how would you responded on October the 8th if you were running the Israeli government ultimately the biggest terror attack on your people ever ultimately ultimately it is within the interests of everybody especially those who identify as Israelis currently to end Zionism Zion ISM has dispossessed and disempowered and killed people on an industrial scale it's maintenance requires four generations of Palestinian refugees scattered throughout the Middle East the highest

population of refugees there is in the world its maintenance requires the constant repression of Palestinian uh hopes for a a better world which I think is completely wrong so I believe all Palestinian people should have exactly the same rights as you and I and every Israeli and that requires the end of Zionism so therefore you support the end of Zone I don't agree with what has clearly been a form of occupation okay but putting that to one side I also don't agree with Hamas Hezbollah and the hoties funded by Iran armed by Iran launching wave

after wave after years and Decades of Terror attacks on isra do they have air forces do they have let me ask you a question your question let me let me ask some questions do they have air forces and air defenses do they have air forces and air def it sounds like you're defending what they do no I'm saying there is a complete difference between one of the most powerful armies in the world which has literally a key unit within the Israeli military unit 9900 is the visual unit which uses satellites in the sky that can

pick off a bit of chewing gum on your shoe okay you're talking against about actors that are shooting Rockets which do not have precise um targeting against one of the most powerful air forces in the world f16s and F35 you're talking about asymmetrical Warfare but you know the thing that Israel doesn't remember and which Israel has to know and must know that winning a war is not about killing on an industrial scale the weakest among the population you are targeting which Israel excels at which is the essence of Zionism winning a war is about the

largest amount of people being convinced of your Viewpoint if we use that metric to understand this war Israel has lost in Gaza and it will lose in Lebanon because Israel has more enemies around the world than ever before more people are critical of Zionism than ever before more people understand it to be essentially an anti-life ideology which is causing mass human suffering lowy at the same time Hamas isbah are wedded and make no secret of being wedded to the destruction of Israel the destruction that is a nihilistic form of genocide the very genocide that his

supporters like you would say is been waged against their people they are explicit we want the destruction of Israel and they have tried to enact this October the 7th and hezbollah's response the next day within hours was to unleash Rockets on Israel as well and to carry on doing it for a year at some point Israel obviously was going to respond with massive Force to the biggest attack on its people obviously they were going to do that Hamas knew they would do that Iran who were funding it knew they were going to do that Hezbollah

knew they would do that Hezbollah knew if they kept rattling the Israel cage with their rockets that they would get a response of the kind we're seeing now what they underestimated is that Israel would be quite as successful as they're being right now with Hezbollah and taking out all his command leadership and you can feel that the momentum has switched now where Israeli people in particular and all the polling are now beginning to go back to supporting Netanyahu because they believe rightly or wrongly but they believe Hamas and Hezbollah when they say we want to

destroy Israel they believe it and they believe that they have to defend themselves do you understand that I have a response the liid platform which is its Charter States very clearly there will be no Palestinian sovereignity between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea the liud charter calls for the complete obliteration of Palestine and all of the rights of Palestinians that is the core of the issue one group that you're talking about don't have air defenses and do not have an Air Force and are internationally isolated and are intern isol one has the support of

the United States which has over around a thousand military bases around the world and of course all of the larges from literally the US after Israel has taken its terrorist actions which the former head of the CIA Leon Panetta called it a form of terrorism in Lebanon with the pager attack right after that the US has said it's going to give 8.7 uh billion dollar in military aid to Israel was what Hamas did on October the 7th an act of terrorism I would say that the killing by the Israeli Air Force of Israeli citizens was

an act of Terror I would say that Palestinians who have lived in camps for several Generations they're not in our shoes they're not living the kind of lives that we live in the places we have question but I'm answering your question to a Palestinian who has suffered their entire life under the boot of Israeli occupation what you view as Justified will not be what they view as Justified the very same way the very same way that you denounce figures and Define them depending to these particular uh legislator uh definitions throughout history the very same people

you compared yourself to Nelson Mandela thatc would were absolutely treated in exactly govern exactly the same way the Vietnamese in exactly the same way I'm speaking directly to your point in fact William cuffy of the chartist these were people that mobilized for hundreds of years to to get the right to vote that didn't own property and were not landed gentry in this country do you know what happened to them they were imprisoned as terrorists they were massacred at the uh I know the I know the same history you do but I simply asked you given

that you categorize what Israel did to Hezbollah with the pages whether you said it was an act of Terror whether you think what Hamas did to Israelis on October 7th was an act of Terror as I said to you then the picture is not clear of what exactly ham to Israelis there were lies about 40 beheaded babies that were pumped out all over the place no no no there was so much fake news and lies on what happened on October 7th how can we how can we actually have you watched the Hamas footage that they

seen bits and pieces bits and pieces literally bits and pieces of people's bodies no no no no what I don't understand you haven't seen I don't understand I don't understand I'm happy to see it but what I don't understand no as in I would like to see these things but what I'm saying to you that you are seeming to minimize in my opinion is the fact that the Hannibal directive was implemented if the Hannibal direct was implemented if campaign was something at July 2024 haritz investigation revealed the IDF ordered the Hannibal directive to be used

adding haritz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures but the cumulative data indicates that many of the kidnapped people were at risk exposed to Israeli gunfire even if they weren't the Target in other words there may well have been a directive issued says haratz but nobody knows whether anyone was even hit or killed look at the cars look at the cars F I've watched the video footage of what have Master the people in the cars here's my point Lok my let me finish my point is you

have extrapolated this and you've taken it to hundreds of people in the 1200 that were said to have been killed were killed by Israelis yeah there is absolutely there is zero evidence the hundreds of people were K read the electronic inter father read The gry Zone read alaz look at alaz documentary you see in July this year there is no evidence no actually there is evidence and Har and haret pointed some of it out early on they didn't I've just read at the Crossing they pointed out air strike was pulled in I've just read to

you what they found well you've read one article which clearly shows that the Hannibal directive was implemented question if an Apache if an Apache helicopter shoots at a car what happens to the car have you do you think do you think ham let me let me ask you a question do you think that the use of AK-47s would cause the damage that was done to those cars fleeing I I think because you have chosen not to view the footage that Hamas broadcast to the world you are incredibly ill-informed about this and my advice to youed

given how engaged you are in this whole thing I'm staggered you just haven't watched that footage then you wouldn't be asking me questions but but to The Wider issue of what we're talking about this is far far bigger than one dat but I'm only asking it's it's almost become a religion October understand but I only ask you one comparison you view what Israel did to Hezbollah who've been firing rockets at them all year displacing 70,000 people in Northern Israel you view what they did with those pages as an act of terrorism I simply said to

you do you think what amass on October 7th is an act of terrorism and you've been really struggling to give a straight answer you're trying to distract me by saying Hannibal direct let let me ask you a question let me ask you a question do you believe do you believe in the provisions of the genocide um convention I do not believe what Israel is doing is waging genocide that's not what I'm asking you that's not what I'm asking you what I'm asking you is article one of the convention on the prevention and the punishment of

genocide says that all parties that are part of this are under obligation to prevent the occurrence of genocide and punish those responsible for its commission there is sound argument argument how many people live in Gaza 2 million people live in Gaza how many have been killed well I mean the lanet medical jour Journal has put forth the assertion that 200,000 people's lives have been ended by Israel's operation it's complet true but that's the L medical journal so the L medical journal is a more trustworthy palan than you the Palestinians are saying 42,000 as of today

the Palestinian Hamas run that's not how genocide works but that's not how genocide Works P but you know that's not how genocide works I'm about to tell but you know that's not how genocide works I'm so you don't believe the Palestinian health authority numbers no I believe them but what I'm saying you think five times as many people have been killed I've literally just quoted you what the lanet medical um Association has said and I've also quoted to you what they have you know why it matters but that's also not how works I share I

share a lot of your misgivings about the scale and proportionate response of what's been going on in Gaza and I've said that repeatedly but I don't think it constitutes a genocide because Israel has the power should it want to to kill all this is constit they have the power to eradicate every single pales was genocide committed on the Aboriginal people of Australia well I'm not going to go over the whole they still exist so therefore your argument is that they were not subject to genocide following the arrival of Captain Cook but do you accept that

what Hamas andb when they say the destruction of Israel that is the purest personification of genocide I have clearly shown you that the liid charter States within it that the Palestinians will have no sov any questions about the other and the sea I as connection what has happened you distract on I say you're talking to me you're talking to me about organizations that were formed to fight the Israeli occupation their response to that occupation is what it is the occupation exists first Zionism exists first what comes after it is a product of that social you

categorize what they've been doing as resistance not terrorism they are resistance groups as the vast majority of the humanity of humanity is represented by governments that Define them as resistance factions including the government of Switzerland what's more neutral than the government of Switzerland it doesn't prescribe these organizations okay for the record so to be clear you think they're resistance not terrorists yes okay we got that let me bring in Bridget Gabriel uh Bridget will you listen to what Loki has to say he's not alone in this thought I've heard this from many pro Palestinian guests

on unsensitive the last year uh what is your response well I want to start with the accusation of the occupation uh Israel was minding its own business ever since it existed it w it reached out to the Arabic World it wanted to have peace with the Arabic World in 1964 when the PLO the Palestinian Liberation Organization was founded the West Bank was in the hands of Jordan it was Jordan and Gaza was in the hands of Egypt it was Egypt so the PLO was founded in in 1964 not because of Any occupation they wanted to

drive the Jews into the sea and get rid of every single Jew in the Middle East Israel tried repeated the only reason the Palestinian lost the in 67 and they lost Gaza and the West Bank is because they preempted an attack against Israel and over and over again Israel reached out to them to make peace with them in 2000 ahud Barack offered them 97% of the territories back and they refused it again and again and again in 2005 when Israel withdrew out of Gaza they said okay we're going to give you your own State we're

gonna give you your own territory Israel forcibly removed its own people fighting the IDF by force remove them out of Gaza not only remove the people they dug out dead Jews Bones from the cemeteries because they knew exactly what the Palestinians are going to do to the cemeteries so in 2005 when isra withdrew out of Gaza there wasn't one Jew alive or dead in Gaza they turned over the key to them and said okay great now build your own place you are independent I know people that they Israel even left them the green houses Israel

was exporting 50 million flowers to Europe in 2004 out of Gaza the green houses the fruits the vegetables the flowers they left them to the Palestinians so the Palestinians can start a h they can have an industry where they can support them themselves I know a businessman from New York who even raised $14 million to make sure that Palestinians will be able to get paid salaries as they move over and they continue building the green houses and what did the Palestinians do within 24 hours after Israel withdrew not only they destroyed every single Jewish synagogue

in the area they destroyed the green houses ripped out the pipe and even stole the copper out of the pipe and then they had an election so the in their first election the first woman elected to the cabinet of Hamas was a woman by the name omal the mother M they called her the mother of the resistance and she ran on the platform I killed three of my sons because she had videos of her sons she dressing them in suicide bomb uh bombers to go kill Israelis she said I already gave up three for the

cause I have another seven to give that's why she was elected so that's a democratic election for Hamas Israel did not put the Palestinians in a prison in Gaza Hamas put the Palestinians in a prison in Gaza Gaza could have been turned into into Singapore they had the money they had more money pouring into the Palestinian territories and still do from all over the world and what did they do with it build a tunnel infrastructure underneath bigger than the subway system in New York instead of helping their people so those who scream about the occupation

occupation the Palestinians have brought this on themselves again and again and again wow but do you accept that Palestinians should have the same human rights as the rest of us absolutely All Humans should are equal in the eyes of God how can they do that how but when it comes to this issue of occupation I was very struck at the start of the response to October the 7th that very quickly Israel was able to turn on or off the tap of energy the tap of water the food Supply Etc that is only achievable if you

are effectively occupying another country otherwise you're not able to do it so Israel has had this control over Gaza and the people that live there which to me does not afford those people the same human rights as Israelis enjoy it's inarguable because if they did if they didn't have that control they couldn't turn on on off the energy all the water supplies but why did Israel get to this point remember in 2005 they gave them everything and they said we are out the Israelis even fought among themselves because you know some people did not want

list don't get me wrong I think what I think I think listen I think Hamas squandered all the money they were given and Hamas has been the enemy of its own people and when Hamas did what they did on October the 7th they knew it was immediately sentencing to death thousands of their own people in the proes they knew that right so I think Hamas has got to go I think Netanyahu has to go as well and his right-wing headbang cabinet members who do speak in a genocidal way none of this is ever going to

lead to peace but let me ask you Bri about Loki's uh claims about October the 7th he says that there was this Hannibal directive it's been much speculated harit says that they found evidence there was the IDF has never admitted there was a Hannibal directive but it is possible in the fog of war that day that I guess some of the casualties came because of Israeli fire we don't know that um but Loki wants people to believe hundreds and hundreds of people who died that day on the Israeli side were killed by Israel I don't

believe that that has not proven and if I have to choose between believing the Hamas talking point who control the ministry of information and the Israeli IDF I would believe the IDF because I have lived in Israel as a Lebanese at one point I had a home in Lebanon a home in Israel and my boyfriend who lived in the bank at that time and I worked as a journalist and knowing how the IDF operates and knowing how the Israeli military operates they operate by rules they don't invent information like Hamas does and I when you

are in the throws of things like what happened in October 7th a lot of people do not know a lot of the facts that happened on the ground but we do know one thing that Hamas committed such atrocities and were so proud filming it and showing it that that will that will give you Goosebumps that a lot of people can get sick they canot view it and I'm shocked that Loki hasn't even viewed the footage you have to view the footage to understand the monstrosity of the crimes that were committed on that day yeah I

mean I watched this BBC documentary which had all the footage from the music festival and honestly Loki it was one of the most sickening two hours of my entire life have you been on social media for the past year yes I have you have seen a constant stream of mutilated children you have seen a constant stream of people being lifted up out how can you how can you even bring into the conversation two hours of footage in comparison to 12 months and 77 years of this type of treatment but I have a question I have

a question for the guest I would I would like to ask this question now the organization act for America which you represent and are a part of seems to be quite the Patriotic outfit it's also been criticized widely as islamophobic but I have some questions about the finances of your organization it's funded by the Fairbrook Foundation which has funded the central fund of Israel the Zionist organization of America and also illegal settlements in the West Bank in addition to that your organization act for America has been funded by the Becca Foundation which has funded Christians

United for Israel and the Israel project in addition to that your organization was also funded by the MS Foundation which funded the the Israel project the central fund of Israel and the Zionist organization of America how in any way do you stand for peace when the organization which you front and presumably are employed by is also funded by organizations that are invested in illegal settlement in the West Bank actually my organization which I run and I'm the founder and chairman I not only work for it was founded after September 11th to Protect America against the

threat of radical Islamic terrorism it shares funders it shares funders with those building illegal settl let me speak you already spoke your mind you already spoke your mind now it's my time to answer my organization was founded to impact policy in the United States to protect the United States from the threat of radical Islamic terrorism coming from Al-Qaeda Isis H or whoever happen the terrorist organization are we work with Muslims we have Muslims on our are board we have Muslims who are members we had a key uh we every single conference we had we always

had a keynote speaker who is Muslim that speak you I feel like we're getting I feel like we're not let me finish I feel like we're getting that you're talking about I feel like we're getting a bit look fascinating though it is the makeup of your business it's it's not really the point of what this debate is right right it's not the point exactly and the the point I would make Briget is this I do think Loki has a good point about this settlements right what is going on in the West Bank with this rapid

aggressive expansion of settlements is completely outrageous it's illegal it's wrong it shouldn't be happening why is it happening uh sorry you cut out you mean the settlements in the West Bank the expansion of settlements on the West Bank in the last year has been completely outrageous well look there are there's a radical Wing within Israel that wants to expand the settlements and the settlements is an issue I agree with you people are very upset about funded by the same organizations what does this have to do with the funding with what we're talking about they organ

they are Americans who support the funding of protecting the United States not Israel m is Dev the the United States has nothing the do let's get back let's get back to the bigger picture so bridg do you condemn the expansion of the settlements in the last year on the West Bank I say that again do you condemn the expansion of the settlements on the West Bank in the past year uh yes I do I think they are going overboard with the settlement I think somebody needs to revisit uh looking at the settlement and how they

are good then okay then that's good Loki do you condemn what Hamas did on October the 7th I have a question for you based on I'll answer your question a second she made an admission that she condemns it no she expend she condemns the expansion of settlement these people also at some point you are going to at some point L you going to have to answer some of my questions which I have done okay do you condemn what Hamas did you've already asked me that not directly you haven't answered I will not condemn People based

on Israeli military talking point but but I have a question question for you you don't condemn mass murder obviously I condemn mass murder you won't condemn it by herass you're talking about a specific political context in which the information I'm talking about murder of people on October 7th by the Israeli military see it's just absurd so I have a question for you I think you credibility when you say I have a question for you I'm not concerned about whether you think or don't think I have credibility it's I don't cover this from supporting either over

the other are you sure about that yeah are you sure about that absolutely I have a question I have a question what's your question rert Murdoch yeah news Court International yeah which employed you for several years yes which actually emplo still it employs you now okay we're getting to the issue you think the issue is I saw you tweeted what does it have to do with me not my tweets I have a question for you news Court International had a charitable arm which funded the Jerusalem Foundation which builds illegal settlements illegal settlements in what's it

me do you condemn rer murder what's it going to do with me do you condemn rer Mur I'm not talking about rer Mur do you condemn rer murder I'm not talking about R Mur this this has never been shown on British media this is a letter from from netanyahu's political office and Bridget May well recognize the handwriting of Benjamin Netanyahu here it is a list of individuals that Netanyahu considered to be funders of his political campaign there is a name on this list the name is rert Murdoch your employer what it seems he funded Benjamin

Netanyahu that's an issue you know what it's not an issue for me it's an issue and actually it's in the interest of objectivity that you state can speak for himself you got a problem with him take it up with him I do I can tell you categorically he has never had a single conversation with me about anything I put on pier Morgan on sens Sam kently resigned from the Times newspaper because of Murdoch's investment and bias this this document this letter you're a clearly shows Benjamin Netanyahu noting rer Murdoch considering him to be a funer

of his political you're a rapper that's an issue you're a rapper you condemn P didy yes great you see how easy it is you take it out of your obsession which is that you hate Israel so much you can't condemn anything that people do to them we see the situation differently not really my my loyalty is to the people I agree with you a lot loal I agree with you a lot more than you realize I view myself as loyal to the people of the camps to the people under the bombs I do not view

myself as loyal to somebody that would end up on a list of potential funders of Benjamin I I like rert Murdoch enormously I respect him enormously and if you you won't condemn his funding murder of Netanyahu you won't condemn his funding you don't condemn mass murder you don't condemn mass murder oh I do condemn the Israeli military for Mass murdering Israeli Captain had you bothered to watch this program for the last year you would see I regularly condemn it's not it's not condemnation you don't think what Hamas did was murder do you think is resistance

I think the vast majority of humanity perceive asymmetrical Warfare by developed militaries against the vast majority of humanity are postc Colonial subjects P they came they came out of decolonization so their conception of these issues is just not the same as yours unfortunately we will have to disagree but that's fine no problem all right it was good to meet you thank you for coming in V thank you very much indeed for joining me I appreciate it too uh and we'll move on and listen the story won't go away come back we'll debate it again thank

you remember I agree with more than you think with what you say okay all right but at some point you got to have a little bit of something about you that says that some things that people do to Israel can also be wrong you don't think so I mean you're misrepresenting my uh am I you think you're one thing people have done to Israel that's wrong I think giving it 8.7 billion dollars in military aid after it it's carried out a terrorist attack so no attack on Israel has ever been anything but Justified I think

Zionism as a project is unsustainable that's my question it's unsustainable can you think of one unsustainable is there one thing that's been done to Israel that you think is wrong not right now think of that and that's I'll let you know in its way Loki that's very Illuminating no problem good to see you thanks