People with The Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi x Nikhil Kamath | Episode 6 | By WTF

...and take a decision that you, otherwise, wouldn't... ...what would that one thing be? I'll tell you-- How many podcasts have you done until now? Twenty-five, sir. -Twenty-five? -Yes. -But we only do one in a month. -Okay. Every month, one day, one podcast, and we don't do anything else for the rest of the month. But the person you're going to interview, -you give them a month's time... -Yes. ...to get comfortable. We do it in-depth. Most of our podcasts are about entrepreneurship. Our audience is in that category of 15-40 years old, who are just getting into entrepreneurship.

So, we did an episode on artificial intelligence, an episode on metaverse, one on pharmaceuticals. So, we work on very specific subjects. And we've recently started a new one called "People," in which we spoke with people like Bill Gates. This is the first time I'm being part of a podcast. And that's why, this world is very new for me. So, sir, please forgive me if my Hindi is not very good. I am a South Indian. I grew up mostly in Bangalore. And people out there-- My mother is from the city of Mysore. And there, people mostly

speak in Kannada. My father was from Mangalore. I learnt Hindi in school. But I'm not very fluent in it. And people say that most of the communication is non-verbal, which is understood by just looking at one another. You see, I am not a Hindi speaker as well. So, this will work for both of us. And our podcast is not a traditional interview. I am not a journalist. We mostly talk with people who are aspiring to be entrepreneurs. We tell them what are the requirements to become an entrepreneur in an industry, where they can get the

initial funding, where they can find the material to learn online. So, we are into that zone. Because I feel that there are many similarities between the two that no one has talked about until now. So, we will take that direction and move ahead. If you have questions during this podcast, you can go ahead. I may not have any good answers, but, please, feel free to ask. The first thing I would like to talk about in this podcast is the first half of your life. Pre-PM, Pre-CM, where were you born? What did you do in the

first ten years? Everyone knows that I was born in Gujarat, in North Gujarat, Mehsana district. There is a small town called Vadnagar. When I was little, its population was around 15,000. That's what I remember. I am from that place. Back then, I also belonged to a village, like everyone else. My village was a Gaekwad state. Gaekwad states have a speciality. Every village was aware of the importance of education. They always had a pond, a post office, and a library... a handful of such things, you know. A Gaekwad state village will definitely have these things. This

was their set-up. I studied at the primary school of that Gaekwad state. Anyway, I spent my childhood there. There was a pond, so I learnt to swim there. I used to wash the clothes of all my family members. Because of that, I was allowed to go to the pond. There was Bhagwatacharya Narayanacharya High School there. B.N. High School. That was also a charitable institution. It wasn't like an education system that you see nowadays. That's where I did my education. At that time, it wasn't 10+2 system. We used to have grade 11. I had read somewhere

that the Chinese philosopher, ,Xuanzang had lived in my village. They were going to make a film about him. So I wrote a letter to their embassy. I said, "I've read somewhere that you're making a film about Xuanzang. He used to live in my village. I hope you will mention it." I remember doing something like this. That was many years ago. Before that, in my village, there was someone named Rasikbhai Dave. He was a Congress leader. He was also a socialist. He was originally from Saurashtra, but he had settled in my village. He used to tell

the schoolchildren, "When you walk around and find any stone with an inscription or if something is carved on it, then collect those stones and put it in this corner of the school." Gradually, it grew into a big pile. That's when I realised his intention. As this was a very ancient village, every stone here has a story. Collecting those in one place might be of use for someone one day. It could merely be his imagination. So, it grabbed my attention too. In 2014, when I became the Prime Minister, naturally, I got courtesy calls from the world

leaders. So I got a courtesy call from the Chinese President, President Xi. He wished me well. Then he said to me, "I want to come to India." I said, "You are most welcome. Please do visit us." He said, "But I want to go to Gujarat." I said, "That's even better." He said, "I want to go to your village, Vadnagar." I said, "That's great. You've already planned your itinerary!" He said, "Do you know the reason?" I said, "No, I don't know." He said, "There is a special relationship between us." I asked, "What is it?" He said,

"Xuanzang, the Chinese philosopher, he stayed in your village for the longest time. But when he returned to China, he stayed in my village." He said, "This is the connection between the two of us." And if you can recollect your childhood, when you were young, were you a good student? -Well, I-- -What were your interests back then? I was a very ordinary student. I wasn't... I wasn't someone who would get noticed. But I had a teacher by the name of Veljibhai Chaudhary. He had a soft corner for me. One day, he went to meet my father.

He told my father that he is so talented, but he's not focused. He just does random things. He grasps everything very quickly, but then he gets lost in his own world. So, Veljibhai Chaudhary had a lot of expectations from me. My teachers loved me a lot. But I-- If I had to study hard, or if there was any element of competition, I used to run away from it. I wasn't interested in it. Passing in the exams was enough for me. That's how I was. But I was involved in many other activities. If there was anything

new, that would interest me immediately. That was my nature. Sir, do you have any childhood friends with whom you are still in touch? My case is slightly strange. I left home at a very young age. I mean, I left everything behind. I had no contact with anyone. This created a big gap. I had no contact with anyone. I wasn't in touch with anyone. I was, you know, lost in life, wandering. There was no one left to care. So my life was very different. But after I became the CM, some desires arose in my mind. One

of them was to invite my former classmates to the CM house. My idea behind it was that I didn't want anyone to think that I considered myself high and mighty. I am the same person who left the village years ago. I haven't changed at all. I wanted to relive that moment. And the way I could relive that was to spend time with those friends. But I couldn't even recognize them. Because there had been a long gap. Everyone's hair had turned grey. The kids had grown up. But I invited everyone. There were around 30-35 people. And

we had dinner together. We chatted a lot. We relived our childhood memories. But I didn't really enjoy it. I didn't enjoy it because I was looking for friends, while they saw me as the CM. I couldn't bridge that gap. Now, there is perhaps no one left in my life who'd address me as "tu". That's how it is now. Yes, everyone is still in touch. But they treat me with a lot of respect. I had a teacher, Rasbihari Maniyar. He passed away some time ago. And he was around 93 or 94 years old. He used to

write letters to me, and he always wrote "tu". Others-- So, after becoming the CM, one of my wishes was to meet my school friends, and I did that. I had another wish which might sound strange to Indians. I wanted to publicly honour all my teachers. So, all my teachers who taught me during my school years, I searched for all of them. And after becoming the CM, I organized a grand event to honour them. Our Governor, Mr. Sharma, he also attended that event. All the reputed personalities of Gujarat attended that event. I had a thought in

my mind: to acknowledge their contribution in making me what I am today. Some of them would have been my teachers from kindergarten. The oldest teacher was 93 years old. I invited around 30-32 teachers, and I honoured each one in public. It was a beautiful moment in my life that touched my heart. Then I dedicated one day in my life to my entire family, my brothers and their children, my sisters and their children, my family members. I wouldn't be able to recognise them either as I had left home. But one day, I invited everyone to the

CM House. I was introduced to the family members. "Whose son is he? Who is married to whom?" Because I had lost touch with them. So, this was the third thing I did. The fourth thing-- During my initial Sangh days, the families who gave me food... to whom I went for my meals... There were many families who fed me. l never made any arrangement for food as I ate wherever I could. So, I invited all of them. So, the things that I did willingly for myself over the last 25 years, they are these four things. I

invited my school friends. I invited the families that fed me. I invited my family members. And I invited my teachers. You may not remember, but you visited Bangalore a few years ago. You met people who were into start-ups. You met us. You sat for about an hour. And if you remember, I was asking questions back then, too. I was telling you things like, whatever is happening, perhaps, is not good, and you were listening. If you could define an age group, what would it be? This was said about me, by and large, that, "If you want

to find Naren bhai, then where would you look for him? He'll be standing around, guffawing with a bunch of young men." That was also my image. That is why, perhaps today, regardless of the field or the age group, I don't feel the disconnect. I may not have a perfect answer about the word "connect", but I blend well with everyone. Like you said that you don't like competition, they say that competition is not good. ...where there is a lot of competition, how can they bring the same ideology into politics? Look, running from competition as a child

must have been mere laziness. There is no great philosophy behind it. In my case, it must have been the usual irresponsible behaviour found in children. I don't think I was guided by any philosophy. I was like, "It's okay if he scored better than me. Why should I work harder?" So-- Secondly, I was like an all-rounder. I'd get involved in everything that I laid my hands on. If there was an essay competition, I'd be in it. If there was a drama competition, I'd be in it. I mean, I would do these things effortlessly. Now, I-- I

had a teacher by the name of Mr. Parmar. He was very-- I mean-- He was our PT teacher, a physical training teacher. There was a small wrestling ring in a mansion. I was so inspired by him that I started going there regularly. I used to learn Mallakhamba at that time. -I used to learn wrestling. -What is "Mallakhamba," sir? Wrestling. Wrestling and Mallakhamba. -They have a huge wooden pillar. -Okay. On that-- Especially in Maharashtra, they practise Mallakhamba. -I see. -And it's-- It is an excellent form of exercise for a well-built body. You can say that it

is a kind of yoga on a pole. I'd wake up at 5:00 am and go to him. And he also trained me hard. But I did not become an athlete. I practised it for a while and then I quit. That's all. Is there anything that can be considered a talent for a politician in politics? For example, in entrepreneurship, when one starts a company, you inherently need a few talents. Like, someone with good marketing skills, someone with good sales skills, or someone who is tech-savvy and can develop the product. If a youngster wants to become a

politician today, are there any talents that you'd want them to have? There are two different things. Becoming a politician is one thing. And being successful in politics is another thing. So, there are two different things. So, it's one thing to come into politics. Being successful is another thing. I believe for that, you need You must stand with the people in their good and bad times. You must be a good team player. If you become egotistical and try to run everything on your terms, expect everyone to obey you, then you-- It is possible he might get

into politics and win elections, but there is no guarantee that he will become a successful politician. In this country-- sometimes I feel that my ideas might create a controversy. During the Independence Movement, people from all walks of life had joined, but not everyone came into politics. Some dedicated their lives in the field of education, some got into khadi, some worked in the field of adult education, some worked for the welfare of the tribal communities. They were all involved in some form of productive work. But it was a movement inspired by patriotism, the freedom movement. Everyone

was passionate about it. That they will do whatever it takes to free India. After independence, some of them came into politics. And in the beginning, if you look at our politicians, all the stalwart leaders that we had, they were all freedom fighters. So, their thinking, their maturity, their form are different. They are completely different. The things they say, the things you hear about their behaviour... They have a great dedication towards the society. And that is why I think, that good people should keep coming into politics. They should come with a mission, not with an ambition.

If you have come with a mission, you will get a good position somewhere. But your mission should be above ambition. Then you will have the capability. Take the example of Mahatma Gandhi. If you look at the definition of a leader of this era, then Mahatma Gandhi does not fit in that. Personality wise, he was very thinly built, he was not an orator. So, if you look at it that way, he could not have become a leader. So, what was the reason? His way of life did the talking. And this power made him a leader of

the country and made everyone stand up. And that is why, nowadays, politicians are being seen in the professional category as the ones who can give flattering speeches. This can go on for a few days, they get applauded. But ultimately, it is your way of life that rewards you. And my other theory... is that communication is more important than the art of speech, that is oratory. How do you communicate? Now, look at Mahatma Gandhi. He carried a stick taller than himself, but he advocated non-violence. That was a huge contrast. But he used to communicate well. Mahatma

Gandhi never wore a cap, but everyone else wore the Gandhi cap. He had the power of communication. Mahatma Gandhi's field was political but he did not have a political system. He didn't contest in elections. He did not head any government. But after his death, the place he was cremated in was called Raj Ghat. And, sir, what you have just said, the main point of today's conversation is that, It was announced from the Red Fort that India needs one lakh such young people who should join politics, and-- I believe that... "to take, to get, or to

become," if this is the goal, then the lifespan won't be very long. The first training that an entrepreneur has, is to grow. Here, the first training is, to absorb for yourself. To give whatever you have. On the other side, how can I, my company, or my profession, how can it be top-ranking? Here, it is That makes a huge difference. And even the society accepts only the people who primarily think about the nation first. And the political life is not easy at all. It is not what people believe. Some people are lucky. They don't have to

struggle. They keep getting benefits. There might be some reasons. I don't want to get into that, but I know. We had a party worker by the name of Ashok Bhatt. He used to live in a small house till the end of his life. He became a minister many times. He didn't have a car of his own. And, earlier, there were no mobile phones, just a landline. If you called him at 3:00 in the night, he would pick up the phone after half a ring. And if you told him-- Because at that time, I wasn't in

politics, but-- In Ahmedabad, Rajkot, there were many accidents on the highway, at a place called Bagodara. So, I used to get a call every 2-3 days a week that there was a big accident here. So I used to call Ashok Bhatt. And, he used to say, "Oh, okay." In a few seconds, he would leave home. He didn't have his own car. He would catch hold of someone, or go by a truck. He lived like this his whole life. ...youth shouldn't think that they have to become a politician? But they should think what they will do

after becoming a politician? The thing is, most people don't want to be a politician. Rather they say, "I want to become an MLA. I want to be a corporator. I want to be an MP." That is a completely different category. To become a politician, it is not necessary to contest elections. It is a part of democracy, if you get a chance, then contest. The vocation should be to win the hearts of ordinary people. Elections can be won later. And to win the hearts of ordinary people, one has to live with them. One has to connect

with their lives. And even today, there are such people in the country. If you talk about today's young politicians, There are many. And they toil very hard. They work very hard day and night. They work with a mission in mind. Is there any one person in your mind? If I say a name, it will be injustice to many people. So, it is my responsibility not to do injustice to anyone. But there are a lot of names, a lot of faces in front of me. I know the details of a lot of people. As you were

saying earlier that living with people, Was there anything in your childhood Meaning? Meaning, as you were saying, when you wanted to become a politician, The people for whom you are a politician, they become primary. Was there anything in your childhood, because of which-- The thing is, I didn't make my own life. It is due to the circumstances. The life that I have spent since my childhood, I don't want to get deep into it, because my childhood was different. But life teaches you a lot. And, maybe, that was my biggest university. That university has been a

problem for me, which teaches me. And, maybe, I have learnt to love the problem, and that has taught me a lot. I come from that state, where I have seen mothers and sisters carrying a pot on their head, walking 2-3 kilometers in search of water. Then I feel, after 75 years of independence, can I get them access to water? So, this activity of mine is due to that empathy. Plans would have been implemented earlier, and I don't claim those. People must have had dreams before. But I toil hard for those dreams, and it could be

anyone's dreams. But, if that dream is right, then it is my job to get it fulfilled, so that it is beneficial for the country. When I became the Chief Minister, I gave a speech. And, unassumingly I had said I will not shy away from hard work. Secondly, I will not do anything for myself. And thirdly, I am human and I can make mistakes. I will not do anything wrong out of bad intentions. And I consider those like a mantra for my life. Mistakes are inevitable, I too must have made mistakes. I am a human too.

I am not a god. Humans do make mistakes. I will not do anything wrong out of bad intentions. This is what I have always believed in. Do you think that your which you believed 20 years ago, if it changes today, For example? For example, today I am 38 years old. When I was perhaps, 20 years old, I used to think that And, now when I am 38 years old, 20 years ago ...people's preconceived beliefs do change. I still believe in capitalism. I am just saying this as an example. But did you have such beliefs that

you agreed upon 10-20 years ago, and today you don't? There are two things. One, in which case, there are some people who don't remain steadfast on anything. They keep on changing, and do not stick to one thing. I am not that kind of a person. I-- have grown up with only one belief. And, if my ideology, is told in very few words, then it has to be, If my tagline is "Nation First", then whatever fits into it, it does not bind me in the shackles of ideology. It does not bind me in the shackles of

traditions. It is necessary for me to take it forward, and so, I do it. If I have to leave old ideas behind, then I am ready to discard them. I am ready to accept new things. But the tagline would be, "Nation First." I have only one scale. I don't change the measure. If I rephrase this question: Is it the politicians' ideology that gains them followers? Or, is it the society's ideology that the politicians copy, which in turn, earns them the followers? Idealism is far more important than ideology. I am not saying that politics can exist

without ideology, but idealism is very much needed. For example, what was the ideology before freedom? There was agitation. Freedom. That was the only ideology. Gandhi-ji's path was different, but the ideology was freedom. Savarkar's path was his own, but the ideology was different. Which was? Freedom. People say that you need to be callous to become a politician. Thick-skinned! People will troll you. They will criticize you publicly. They will create stories about you. For a normal person, this would be a new experience. How can one learn this? Politics requires sensitive people. We need people who feel deeply

moved by someone's suffering. The second topic is, accusations and counter-accusations. In a democracy, you should accept that people will accuse you for various reasons, but if you are right and you have not done anything wrong, you will never face any problem. Sir, you have been the CM in the pre-social media politics, and now, in the post-social media, you are the PM. How has politics changed during this time? You have seen both, the earlier times and today's times, when social media was not so important and today, when it has become very important. Keeping this in mind,

if you were to advise the youth, who wants to become a politician, how should they use the social media? At times, this question comes up when I meet young kids. They question me regarding this. I also like to chat with them. Students from the 8th and 9th grades visit me now and then. They ask me how I feel when I see myself on TV? They ask me like that. Some children ask me how do I feel when I am abused so much? I tell them a joke. I tell them that I am an Amdavadi, and

our Amdavadi people have a unique identity. They joke a lot. Once, an Amdavadi was riding on his scooter and almost collided with someone from behind. The other person got angry, and they started arguing. The other person started abusing. The Amdavadi remained standing with his scooter. The other person kept on abusing. Suddenly someone came and said, "What kind of a person are you? He is abusing so much and you are standing just like that." The Amdavadi said, "He is just giving, but he is not taking anything, right?" This is a typical Amdavadi behaviour, "that someone is

giving, and not taking anything away." So, I have also made up my mind. It's okay if they are verbally abusing me. Whatever they have, they will give. Whatever I have, I will give. But your foundation must be of truth. Have no evil in your heart. Otherwise-- Okay, you tell me. Let's say, you are not into politics, but you work in an office. Doesn't all this happen in an office? Imagine there is a big family, and there is some friction between the two brothers. Does this also happen there or not? In every aspect of life, more

or less, all of this will happen. So, based on that, we should not think about being callous. We should be very sensitive. In public life, without sensitivity, you can't help people. I believe that social media has immense power in a democracy. Earlier, there were very few people who were reporting about you. You would consider that to be the truth. Even then, you felt trapped. You didn't have any opportunity for verification. If someone said that 1,00,000 people died, you believed that to be the case. Today, you have an alternative. You can verify. If you get certain

information, you can verify it on different platforms. Everything is available on your mobile phone. If you pay a little attention, you can easily find out the truth. That is why, social media can add strength to democracy. Those who are committing crimes because of their perversity... Then in society, even in normal circumstances-- I still remember when I used to work for the organisation. No matter what, we, the volunteers of "Jana Sangh"-- I was not in politics at that time. There was a lot of humiliation. Whether you had done something or not, you would get verbally abused.

Even if there was a drought, the politicians got abused. So it was the same in those times as well. But then, there was print media. Its power was just that much. And now, we have social media. As it was earlier, it is the same today. But today, to find the truth, you have a huge canvas available. Many alternate ways have opened up. And today's youth, mostly, verifies these things. You see, nowadays, whenever I meet children, I am surprised, when they show interest in astronomy. So, Chandrayaan's success has created a new enthusiasm in today's youth. I

meet many children who are aware of Gaganyaan's time table. See the strength of social media. They are following Gaganyaan closely, like the details of the astronauts, where they have been training. The children of grade 8 and 9 know all this. This means that social media, in a way, can be considered to have a great power for the new generation. And, I consider it useful. When I first came into the field of politics, I was very young, so there was no question of me being criticised. But I used to hear such absurd things! I used to

wonder, why would people say such things? Why do they behave in this manner? Then, gradually, I realised that politics is like this, and you have to manage. Nowadays, a lot of kids have anxiety problem. I, too, have it. ...like I am sitting with you and talking, I feel that, I don't know, what will I say? How would you feel? A lot of kids are talking about anxiety. Have you experienced them in your life, too? When you faced that in your childhood, how did you deal with it? I must have encountered them. It's not like, God

kept me away from this. Whatever He has given everyone, He must have given me as well. You see, to manage these things, everyone has his own ability and individual style. Now, if I want to learn this from you, To say this exactly in the form of a thesis is quite difficult. However, I hold such a position that I have to control my emotions-- The natural tendency that human beings have, I will have to stay detached from all of that. I will have to rise above all that. For example, In the year 2002, there were elections

in Gujarat. It was the biggest challenge of my life. By the way, I got many opportunities to win elections. I had contested back then, and even made others do so. I never watched TV and didn't check the results. At 11:00 or 12:00 pm, I heard the beat of drums outside the CM's bungalow. I had told everyone not to inform me till 12:00 pm. Then our operator sent me a letter saying I was leading by two-third majority. So, I don't believe that nothing affected me that day, but, I had a thought to overpower that feeling. You

can say that there was restlessness and anxiety inside me. In the same way, there were bombings at five places. You can imagine my situation, being the CM of the state. So, I said that I want to go to the police control room. But my security team refused. They said, "Sir, it would be unsafe for you to go." I said, "Whatever happens, I will go." They were very worried. Finally, I sat in the car. I said that I would go to the hospital first. They said that there are bombings in the hospitals too. I said that

whatever happens, I will go. You can say that there was restlessness and anxiety inside me. But my approach was that I would go along with my mission. Maybe I experience that in a different way. I feel a sense of responsibility towards it. On 24th February, 2002, I became an MLA for the first time in my life. 24th February, 2002. On 27th February, I went to the Assembly for the first time. First time in my life, I entered the House of Legislative Assembly. I was an MLA for three days only. And suddenly, I came to know

about that big incident in Godhra. There was a fire in the train. I came to know, gradually, that people were dead. I was obviously very restless. I was worried. I was in the Assembly. As soon as I came out, I said that I wanted to go to Godhra. So, I told them that we will go to Vadodara from here. We will take a helicopter from Vadodara. They said that there was none. I told them to arrange it from somewhere. So, I guess ONGC had one. It was a single engine one. They declined, saying they cannot

take a VIP. I said, I am not a VIP. I am a common man. I will go. So, we had a big fight. I said, "I will give it in writing. Whatever happens, it will be my responsibility. I will go on that single-engine helicopter." And I reached Godhra. Now, with that terrible sight... numerous dead bodies... you can very well imagine. I am also a human being. I too have had bad experiences. But I was aware that being on this post... I have to... my emotions... my natural tendency as a human being, I have to stay

detached from everything. I have to rise above all. And, I did whatever I could to handle myself. But, when I talk to students on "Pariksha Pe Charcha," I explain to them very clearly. Keep your mind free, don't worry that you are going to do something. Treat it as part of your routine and act accordingly. Don't try to wear new clothes that day. Do you think like, what could be the worst case? By worst case, I mean, what can be the worst outcome of this? Do you think like that? I have never thought of life or

death. Look, the people who do calculations in their lives, maybe it is for them. Perhaps, I will not be able to answer this. Because, wherever I am today, I'd never planned for that. That is why, I don't know anything. When I became a CM, I was surprised, how did I become one? So, I had never chosen this path for myself. It's my responsibility now, I'm doing it. Doing it well is my objective. But I didn't start off with this in mind. That is why, I don't know how to calculate. It happens in ordinary life. Perhaps,

I am an exception to this. Because my background is such that, I can never think like that. Someone had asked me, once-- And my background is such that, if I had become a primary school teacher, my mother would have distributed sweets in the locality. She would have given sweets to everyone, saying, "My son has become a teacher." That was my background. That is why, I never had such aspirations. I never thought, "If this doesn't happen, then what?" I don't burden myself with such thoughts. Like you said earlier today, that you get to learn more from

failure than success. Would you like to talk about such failures? The day Chandrayaan-2 was going to be launched, many people told me, "Sir, you should not go." I asked, "Why?" They said, "Sir, it is uncertain. Every country in the world has failed. They succeed only after fourth or sixth attempts. What if something untoward happens?" I said, "So what? Now, don't I have any responsibility towards it?" So I went. And look what happened. During Chandrayaan's launching, we crashed at the last moment. Everyone present there was worried. No one had the courage to inform the Prime Minister

about it. But, whatever I knew about the technology, I could sense that something was wrong. It is not working. Finally, a senior scientist came to me. I said, "Don't worry." I greeted everyone. That programme was at 2:00 a.m. I went to the guest house. But I could not sleep. I called everyone again after 30-45 minutes. I said, "Look, if these people are not tired, I want to meet them at 7:00 am before I leave." Because it was a big setback for the country. But I am not someone who will spend his life crying over a

setback. I went in the morning and told all the scientists, "If there is a failure, then it is my responsibility. You attempted very well. Please don't be disappointed." And, I did everything to instil as much self-confidence as I could in them. And Chandrayaan-3 was successful. Are there any lessons from this that have helped you today? Any learnings from this incident that you use in politics today? You see, taking risks in politics, requires a lot of preparation. One has to take risk at every moment. When I call one lakh young people, I want to give them

my time too... which they want. And I feel that, if the country has such young people, then my dream for 2047 can be fulfilled by them. I am not asking them to work for me. -I am asking them to work for the country. -You called them to join politics. But... but-- they should not have what is called That's why I want to stand by them. "Don't worry. Let's go, friends." And don't come with the intentions of "taking, getting, or becoming" anything. Politics has great importance in democracy. Give it dignity. If politics gets more dignity, there

will be greater purification. If we call it useless and dirty, then it will remain the same. We should give dignity so that good people come in. So, this is my attempt. This is one thing where I am saying more youngsters should join politics. When I talk about myself, there are two things. The first thing is that I like my job. I like investing in companies and stock markets. I have been doing this for 20 years And the second thing is that Since childhood, I was told that back then the options for me were doctor, engineer

or chartered accountant. Now, we can add an option of start-up. But for all of us, it has been so ingrained in our psyche that it is difficult to change. And if I could add another truth regarding this... if there's a thing that I want to change after becoming a politician, I don't even know what is that thing. So, what would you say to people like us? I look at it differently. Your analysis is incomplete. It's incomplete because... if what you were saying had been the actual reality, then you would not be here today. Every minute

of yours would've been involved with wealth. Leaving all that behind, you are racking your brain here in the winters of Delhi. That means you are connected with democracy and politics. Politics doesn't mean elections. Politics doesn't mean victory or defeat. Politics doesn't mean power. That's only one aspect of it. How many elected public representatives are there in the country? Suppose there are 10,000 MLAs, or one or two thousand-- Everyone doesn't win, but they have a place in politics. Secondly, if you are involved in policy-making, then you can bring a big change. You may bring some changes

by doing good things in your company. But if you are a policy-maker, involved in politics, then you can bring that change for the entire country. So, the biggest advantage in the governance system is that you can make policies. You can change status by executing policies. And if you are in the right direction, and working with full honesty, then you will see the result. Now, for example, every government in our country has been working for the tribals. But our President, Draupadi Murmu-ji, she comes from the same section of the society. So, whenever I met her, she

used to become very emotional. Even in the tribal society, no one has been able to reach the most backward people. And there are many small groups, scattered everywhere. She told me numerous times that something has to be done. I asked her to guide me. So, under her guidance, I made a scheme, PM Janman Yojana. There are, at the most, 25 lakh people, that too, in 250 places. This does not benefit the politicians, because they won't get votes. So there is nothing to win or lose. But surely, it's very important for their life. Draupadi-ji knew that

society, she requested me and I complied. And now, when I hear, things have really started happening, then I feel a great sense of satisfaction about how a position can be made useful. I got the chance to be of some service to them, whom everyone else had forgotten. So, in politics-- If you can make good decisions at the right time, this is an example of how you can bring about a great change. And, sir, I am not a journalist nor am I a political expert. If I talk about policies, There are probably many more-experienced people for

this. what else can you tell and what did you learn from failures? It could be in childhood, at the time of CM or ten years back. Well, I have faced many setbacks. For example, when I was young... Perhaps, I was studying in primary school. I don't remember exactly. I think some military school had started in our state. I had a habit of reading newspapers. So reading a newspaper means, I would read the advertisements, too. If I had to read, I'd read it completely. There was a library in my village, so I used to go to

the library. I read about the military school. So, at that time, I took a money order of one rupee and I ordered the details. A big parcel came, which was in English, I didn't know anything. In my village, there was a person, Rasbihari Maniyar. He was a high school principal. But he lived about 300-400 meters away from my house. We always used to pass by his house. We were kids and he seemed much older. One day, I went to his house. I said, "I don't understand this, can you explain it to me?" He was very

kind. He said, "Don't worry, son, I will take care of you." So, he read everything and said, "This is a military school. "There will be an interview, exam..." et cetera. Later, I told my father. My father said, "We don't have money. You can't go anywhere. stay in the village." Now, in my mind, a military school was a huge deal, related to country! But I couldn't go there. I think that was the first setback in my mind. That I couldn't even do this. I wanted to see everything in life. I remember I had a desire to

live a monk's life. I couldn't do that. My very first attempt was to join the Ramakrishna Mission. Swami Atmasthananda-ji, had a lifespan of 100 years. He passed away recently. Swami Atmasthananda-ji had a lot of things to tell me, because I stayed with him for a while. But as Ramakrishna Mission had some rules, I felt I was not qualified for those. I was not fit for that, so I was not allowed there. But I was not disappointed. My dream was not fulfilled. I was not disappointed. This was my life's setback. Then I just wandered around in

search of swamis and monks. I can't say that I was very successful there, too. Then I came back. Maybe this was destined for me and destiny brought me here. So, one is bound to have setbacks in life. Today, have these setbacks played an important role in your personality? The way your personality is seen today. -And what did you learn from that? -I'll tell you. When I used to work with RSS, they took an old Jeep. I knew driving, I had just learnt. I was travelling with one of the officers in the tribal belt. We were

coming back from Ukai Dam. There was a slope, so I put off the engine to save on petrol, thinking the vehicle will continue to move. I didn't know the problem I was getting into. The vehicle was uncontrollable, I couldn't apply brakes. It was going fast, without any control. We were safe though. No one came to know about it. But I learnt my lesson. So we learn from our mistakes. I absolutely believe that... to a large extent, it is the life experiences that shape our lives. And I have been very fortunate that I have never spent

my life in a comfort zone. I have always been out of my comfort zone. And when I was out of the comfort zone, I knew what to do and how to live. Is there any specific reason-- that even today, you don't want to live in the comfort zone? I feel like I'm unfit for comfort. But have you ever wondered why you feel unfit for comfort? Given the life I've lived, this is a very big thing for me. I find joy even in the smallest of things, because of the way my mind has been conditioned during

childhood, By and large, it makes me feel that I am satisfied. Do you feel that maybe Largely, I agree that most people fail in life because they get used to their comfort zone. Even a big entrepreneur, if he doesn't take risks and doesn't come out of his comfort zone... His comfort zone levels may be different. ...then he will end up failing in his time. He will have to come out. And anyone who wants to progress in any area of life, he should not get addicted to the comfort zone. His mental ability to take risks will

always be his driving force. And same thing works in entrepreneurship, too. Anyone who takes bigger risk... ...is increasing with time? I feel that my risk-taking capacity has not been fully utilised yet. It has hardly been utilised. My risk-taking capacity perhaps has increased multi-fold, and there's a reason for that. It is just that I don't care at all. I have never thought about myself. And one who doesn't think for himself, he has unlimited risk-taking capacity. Such is my case. If today-- "If I don't hold this position today, or won't have it tomorrow, then what will happen

to me?" Such things don't bother me at all. If today, you don't have to think about anything, And have to take such a decision, that you generally don't take today, ...what would that one thing be? That maybe my other modes are over. It's like... Maybe that's why I-- There was one thing that I used to do earlier, which I still feel like doing sometimes. I used to have a programme. And I gave it a name, "I go to meet myself." I go to meet myself. What I mean is, sometimes we don't have time for ourselves.

We meet the world, but we don't have time for ourselves. So what I did was-- In a year, for 3-4 days, I used to keep time for myself, I used to take a few necessary things and set out. I would go to a place where you couldn't find another human being. I used to look for a place where I could get water. Look for a place, somewhere in the jungle. In those days, there were no mobile phones. No question of newspapers either. That was a different kind of joy in life. I miss that sometimes. And

during that time, did you learn anything about yourself? When you were alone, all by yourself? According to philosophy, a lot of people say... Did you learn about yourself in that time, as to why you are this way? I just wanted to get lost in myself. Let me give you an example of what happened. It was perhaps in the period of '80s. I decided to live in the desert. So I started on my journey. I kept wandering in the desert. I could see a light but I could never reach it. I came across a man with

a camel. He asked me what I was doing there. I said, "I want to go further into the desert." He told me to accompany him. The light we could see ahead, was the last village. "I'll leave you there. Stay there for the night and go in the morning." He took me to the place of a Muslim gentleman named Gulbaig. It was a small village called Dhordo. It is India's last village along the Pakistan border. It had about 20 to 25 houses, all of Muslim families. Indians treat their guests like gods, so they welcomed me. I

told him I wanted to go. He said, "You cannot go into the desert right now. Do you realise the temperature there will be sub-zero? How will you stay there? Stay here for the night, and we will show you in the morning." Anyway, I stayed with them for the night. They fed me. I said I want to stay alone. I don't need anyone. He said, "You cannot stay alone. There is a small hut here. You can stay there. You can go to Rann during the day and come back at night." I went there and Rann was

completely white. It was beyond my imagination. That one sight had such an impact on me. The things I had experienced in my Himalayan life, spending my life amidst the snow-clad mountains, I was experiencing the same sight here. And I was filled with a spiritual feeling. But that sight stayed in my mind. When I became the Chief Minister, I started a huge event there called Rann Utsav. And today, it has become a big tourist destination. Today, it has globally earned the title of "Best Tourist Village." If you've to think that there is an event in your

life tomorrow that would make you very happy, who would you call first? I went to Lal Chowk in Srinagar to hoist the tricolour flag. Earlier in Punjab, near Phagwara, our journey was attacked. Shots were fired. Five or six were killed, and several injured. So there was tension all over the country, what would happen as we were going to Srinagar's Lal Chowk. At that time, it was challenging to hoist the flag at Lal Chowk as the flag was often burned there. After hoisting the tricolour flag, we came to Jammu. So, my first call from Jammu was

to my mother. For me, it was a moment of joy, and I also thought that my mother must be worried that why I have gone to such a place where there is a lot of gunfire. I remember that my first call was to my mother. Today, I understand the significance of that call. I haven't felt that way since. You even wrote me a letter. What is the first thing that comes to your mind? If I give my example, Why didn't I do this? Why didn't I spend more time with him? When this event happened in

your life, what did you think? You see, my life was different as I had left home in my childhood. So, the family had also accepted that I didn't belong there. I too accepted that I wasn't for the family. So, my life was like that. Therefore, there was no attachment between any of us. But... for our mother's 100th birthday, I went to touch her feet. Now, at the age of 100-- my mother was not educated. She didn't have any formal education. I mean she was illiterate. So as I was leaving, I said, "Mother, I have to

go for my work. Anything for me?" I was surprised, my mother said two sentences. For someone who has never been to school, she said, "Work with intelligence, live with purity." Now, hearing her talk like this, in a way, it was my treasure. She spoke this in Gujarati. But it meant, "Work with intelligence, live with purity." So, it made me think, God has provided everything to my mother. What special qualities would she have? Sometimes I feel that if I had stayed with her, I would have learnt many things from her. I miss her. My interaction with

her was very limited, as I used to visit her once or twice a year. My mother was never sick. Even when I visited, she would ask me, that, "You must have work to do, so go quickly." This was her nature. So, sir, coming back to the topic of politics again. Earlier, you mentioned that politics is not dirty. History has shown that politicians might make politics dirty. Second question, money in politics. the second problem that comes to their mind is that it requires a lot of money, and they don't have it. Would you like to say

something about this? In my life, the start-up industry where I work, when we get an idea, we take money from friends and family. We call this the "seed round." How does this happen in politics? I remember an incident from my childhood. In my village, there was a doctor, Vasant Bhai Parikh. He was a good ophthalmologist. He was also very service-minded as well as a good orator. He spoke good Hindi and also spoke Gujarati well. He once decided to contest election independently. And all of us, the children's army used to carry flags around. I remember this

vaguely. He collected one rupee from each person to contest the election. And then, he gave an account in a public meeting, how much money was received. And perhaps, he spent 250 rupees for this election. He won by a low margin of votes, but he won. It's not that society doesn't know the truth. You have to have patience and dedication. Secondly, you shouldn't feel this is like a contract. That, "I'm working for you, so I should get votes." Then you won't succeed in this life. That's why I said that politics should not be confined to only

elections for MPs and MLAs. If we start engaging in any work connected with social life, it inevitably creates political influence. Even if someone runs a small ashram or works for girls' education, he may not contest elections on his own. But his efforts would have a political impact. Therefore, politics needs to be viewed on a very large canvas. And sometimes I say, in a democracy, even the voter, in a way, is a politician. When he casts his vote, he uses his judgement to determine who should or shouldn't get his vote. The person whom he doesn't vote,

he surely has some sentiment for him. And whom he votes, he has another kind of sentiment for him. That's why in a democracy-- In my case, I feel that... even though I am in politics, I am not a so-called politician. It is only during the elections that I have to give political speeches. This is my compulsion. I don't like it, but I have to do it. I am compelled to do it. All my time is spent on governance, not on elections. And when I was not in power, my entire time was devoted to the organisation,

on human resource development. I was constantly engaged in enriching the lives of my workers. How to make it more competitive? How to write a press note? How to conduct mass mobilisation? I was involved in every single aspect. I didn't get caught up in appearances or superficial matters. And you must have seen this when I was in Gujarat. The day this issue came before me, I had just become the new Chief Minister. The task before me was to address the earthquake issue. So, I went to the earthquake affected areas. I called a meeting with the officers.

By then, it was nine months since the earthquake. I went there in October. They said, "Sir, it will be done by March." I said, "This March timeline that you have in your mind because of the government budget and financial year, don't be constrained by that." I asked them what they could do before January 26th. Because the country would want to see what had been done in the whole year? So, our target was set. I wanted the target of December end. Then I told the officers, there are 43 districts. I said, "Each officer would be in

charge of one district, and you can consider yourself to be the chief minister of that block. You have to show me the result. You have to go on Friday, and on Monday, I want your report." Everyone went and got back. In the first meeting, they said, "Sir, this is not possible." I asked, "Why?" They said, "The rule is such--" I asked, "Who made the rule?" They replied they did it. I said, "You realised that since you went there. Do you understand the common man's troubles?" I told them to change the rules, and they changed all

of them. Work progressed rapidly. And when the media from across the country and the world visited in January, they were impressed. I wasn't playing politics there. I was motivating everyone with the team spirit towards a result. I was inexperienced and new. I had no idea how to run a government. When I came to Delhi, I called my secretaries one day. I said, "I have a wish. Will you do it?" They said, "Tell us." I said, "Take a two- or three-day leave and go out with your families." They wondered, why the Prime Minister was discussing holidays.

I said, "But you have to work during the leave. When you became an IAS officer. Go to the village, where you did your first job. Stay there for two nights. Show your office to your wife and children, where you sat. That there was no fan. Show them the Ambassador car which four people used to share. Show all this, then we will talk further." They went and came back. I asked them if they went and met their acquaintances? They said yes. I said, "I have a serious question for you." "The place where you started your job

25 or 30 years ago. You have ultimately reached here from that place. Is the village the same as it was 25 years ago, or has it changed?" They all felt hurt. They realised it was still the same. I asked them who is responsible for that? I didn't accuse them. I motivated them, made them aware of the reality. I took them back 25 years. So, my way of working is such that I never have to use harsh words or scold anyone. I get work done through these methods. If you talk about the organisation, then in entrepreneurship,

start-ups, and in businesses, when the cycle is going well, people hire a lot of employees. Then the market slows down or the cycle changes and they have to fire many people. You have always said, "Minimum government, maximum governance." Has our government How is it going? It will be clear to you. The concept of minimum government, maximum governance, was misunderstood as some people derived their own meanings. Some people thought that, fewer ministers meant minimum government. Some people felt that the number of employees depends on minimum government. That was never my vision. In fact, I made effort

to create separate ministries for skills, cooperatives, and fisheries, for all the focused areas in the country. When I say, minimum government, maximum governance, it is due to the processes that are very lengthy. If you need one clearance, it takes six months. If there's a court case, it can drag on for a hundred years. So what we did was to take out about 40,000 compliances. Otherwise, this department will ask for one thing from you. The next one will ask for the same thing from you, The third one will also ask for the same thing. If one

person has already asked, why not use it? 40,000 compliances! It is too much of a burden for the common man. I have abolished around 1,500 laws. I have changed laws that criminalise certain things. So, my vision of minimum government, maximum governance is this. And today, I see the changes that are happening. Sir, India Stack... For example, we are direct beneficiaries of UPI, eKYC, Aadhaar. Did you ever think when these concepts were conceived, Today, in just thirty seconds I can directly transfer money into the accounts of 100 million farmers. Today, I can send subsidy to 130

million cylinder consumers with just one click in 30 seconds. Why did Jan Dhan account come into existence? Because billions that were being siphoned out due to corruption are now saved. And technology was used efficiently. Now look at UPI. It is a marvel for the whole world. When guests from around the world come, they ask how UPI works. I tell them to visit any vendor. How technology is democratised in the world of fintech, India has presented this example to the world. Today, the youth is able to do wonders by possessing a mobile phone. And the youth

will remember, that there was once a government that made the whole world fit into my pocket, in my mobile phone. The country has made a commission for separate innovation. I have created a separate fund for innovation. The youth should take risks. They should feel that even if he fails, he will not die hungry. Someone will take care of him. Once I had gone to Taiwan. My nature is like that of a student. I have this quality in me, so I can say the student in me is still alive. So I met all the leaders there.

And I was so happy. All their leaders, if it was their transport minister, then he had a PhD in transport from the world's best university. So, the department to which a minister belonged, he also had a PhD in that subject from the top-most university. This had a great impact on my mind. So, I want the youth of my country to take us to that level. When I was in Taiwan, I had an interpreter. He was a qualified engineer and well-educated. Their government had appointed him as an interpreter for me. It was a ten-day tour of

Taiwan. I was a guest of their government. This was before I became the Chief Minister. In the last few days, he asked me, "Sir, if you don't mind, I want to ask you something." I said, "We have been together all these days, please ask me." He said, "No, no, you may feel bad." He kept avoiding, and I said, "Please don't hesitate." So he asked me, "Sir, is black magic still prevalent in India? Are there still snakes and snake charmers in India?" That man had this image of India in his mind. I had been with him

for so many days, I used to talk about technology, yet he had this image in his mind. I took it as a joke. I said, "Look, our ancestors used to play with snakes. We can't play with them. So we play with a mouse. Every child in my country plays with a mouse." I told him that my country's strength lies in that mouse. The India of snakes was different. There is one thing that everyone believes in, that India's perception-- this is also common in entrepreneurship-- that marketing is a very big part of building a company. You

have greatly changed India's perception outside of India. Can you give some tips that an entrepreneur can learn? Firstly, claiming that I have brought about this change, is not right. I believe that whoever goes to other countries of the world, the one who is sent by the government is an ambassador. When they go, they are national ambassadors. If we take them on board, then our strength will increase manifold. You must have seen that in NITI Aayog, one of the initial objectives is to combine the strengths of the global Indian community. It is written. So, I strongly

believe that we should combine the strengths of the world. Secondly, even before I became the Chief Minister, I had travelled abroad. At that time, I used to stay among the people of the organisation, I used to be with them. So, I was familiar with their strengths and I had contacts too. There was a time, when I travelled upon Atal-ji's request and had a successful trip. This strength was not utilised earlier. I started channelising it. Even the politicians of the world started to feel that this is a big force, a big strength. Secondly, they saw minimum

crime among the Indians. If they are well-educated, then they are mostly Indians. If they follow the law, then they are Indians. So, a sentiment of honour started rising. Due to the cumulative effect of all this, we see an increase in the country's profile. And I am not just saying this, sir. During my childhood, when I was growing up in Bangalore, age 14, 15, 16, about 20-25 years ago. At that time, it seemed that, that one person who went to college, went to America, did a PhD, and is working at Microsoft or some similar company, There

was nothing beyond that for us. But I can say that, today, when I meet 18-year-old boys, they are not like that anymore. They are talking about building in India. Very few are talking about going abroad for college compared to earlier times. And I have seen this. And sir, if you-- Is competition a good thing in your world as well? I would like to tell you a few different things. I used to say this publicly... that you will regret if you don't come back to India. If possible, at least start the process as soon as possible.

The era is about to change. This is what I used to say. And I remember when you asked me a question earlier about setback. I was the Chief Minister of a democratic, elected government. And, the American government refused to give me a visa. As a person, going to America was not a big deal for me. I had been to America earlier. But for an elected government, a state and a country was insulted, it saddened me. It bothered me, and I wondered what was happening? Just because some people have created false hype, is this how the

world works? I had this thought in my mind. But that day, I held a press conference. I told them that the American government had refused to give me a visa. I said what I had to say, but there was one thing I said. I was asked a question and I said, "Look, I see a new India, where the world would stand in line for a visa." This is my statement from 2005. And today, we are stepping into 2025. I am saying this again. So, I can see... that it is India's time now. My youth, the

common man of my country-- I just went to Kuwait. I went to a labour colony there. I was meeting all the labour families there. These are the labourers who went there 15-16 years ago. Now, they must be coming home for a wedding. They don't have any connection with the country other than that. A labourer, who was from an interior area, he asked, "When will we have an international airport?" A labourer in Kuwait, a person, who left India 15 years ago, dreams of having an international airport in his district. This aspiration will develop my country completely

by 2047. Today, this aspiration exists in the youth of India. It feels like the whole world is moving towards war. Like Ukraine and Russia, for example. When Indian nationals are present in such countries, and as the Prime Minister of India, you are responsible for them in a way. Can you tell us something about it? What happens in these situations? What is happening? The world has faith in us. The reason is that we are not two-faced. We don't mince our words. For example, during this crisis, we have repeatedly said that we are not neutral. I say

repeatedly, we are not neutral. Those who say we are neutral, I am not. I am on the side of peace. I favour peace. And I will support whatever efforts are made towards peace. I say this to Russia. I say this to Ukraine. I say this to Iran. I say this to Palestine. I say this to Israel, too. And they have faith in what I say, that what I am speaking is the truth. And this has improved India's credibility. So, just as the countrymen have faith, that if there is a crisis, my country will definitely take

care of me. Similarly, the world has faith and believes in what India says. During the outbreak of Corona, some of our youth were present right there where it all began. Now they had to be brought back. I told our Air Force officials that this is a difficult task. Only those who come forward voluntarily will be given the task. The entire armed forces stepped forward. In a way, it was a very dangerous situation, but they brought the people back. By the grace of God, there was no loss. They brought the people of Pakistan, Nepal, and Bangladesh.

So the thought in my mind is, if my fellow countryman... is in trouble, who will worry about him? I clearly remember an incident I had heard about. There was an earthquake in Nepal. I sent people from here to Nepal after the earthquake. Someone told me that after 3-4 days, when the aircraft was bringing back Indians from Nepal-- The plan was that it would take essentials to Nepal and bring back Indians. One gentleman stood in the aircraft. The plane was fully occupied. He said, "I am a doctor. I have been criticising the government all my life.

I have criticised all the governments. The government takes tax, income tax, and so on. I have spoken this way at every given opportunity. But today, I have understood the value of that tax. Today, I am able to go back alive." Serving our countrymen anywhere in the world, brings out the good in them. They are also inspired to do something good. And I am experiencing it. I had been to Abu Dhabi. In those days there was Crown Prince, and I requested him to give me some land for a temple. Without a moment's delay, I got land

and permission to build a temple in an Islamic country. Today millions of Hindus are filled with joy. As we are talking about other countries, if I digress a little and ask-- If you ask me, my favourite food is pizza. And pizza is from Italy. People on the Internet say that you know a lot about Italy. Would you like to say something about it? Haven't you seen these memes? No, that just keeps going on. I don't waste my time on that. The thing is that... I am not a foodie. -Not at all? -Not at all. Because...

whatever is served to me in the country that I go to, I relish it. But my bad luck is that if you take me to a restaurant today, and give me the menu and ask me to select, I won't be able to do it. Sir, will you be able to go to a restaurant? I haven't been able to go yet. -How many years has it been? -Many years. Earlier, when you-- Earlier, when I was in the organisation, Mr. Arun Jaitley was very fond of eating. He knew what was best at which restaurant in which city

across the country. He was like an encyclopedia. So when we used to travel together, one meal at a restaurant was a certain thing. But if someone hands me the menu to select the food, I can't do it. Because I'm not aware of the names of the dishes and what they really are. I am totally ignorant. Because I don't have that tendency. So I don't understand it much. So I always told Mr. Arun Jaitley, "Please, you order." My only preference was that I wanted vegetarian food. I spoke to a few of your friends. Friends or people

who have known you for more than 10-20 years. And I asked them to tell me things that are not in the public domain. I won't take their names, but they sent me a photo of the Chief Minister's swearing-in ceremony. Some senior politicians are sitting on chairs. You are sitting on the floor. When I saw that photo, I only remember the time when you were the Prime Minister. Or the Chief Minister of Gujarat. I don't have any visual memory of the times before that. Can you tell me about this change, from there to here? By here

I mean, no one can speak informally to you now. Maybe one of your teachers about whom you spoke earlier. How does this happen? There are two things. I'm not saying that you can't speak informally. -No one speaks like that. -I don't get to hear informal talks. It's not right to assume that no one can't speak like that. But I never get to hear that. Because of the way life has become. Secondly, the titles may have changed. The situations may have changed. The set-ups may have changed. Modi is the same person who once used to sit

on the floor. And that's why I don't care that much. And I'm not just saying it. This is the reality. It makes no difference to me. No difference at all. And, sir, if you remember, last year I gave a speech in front of you on Vibrant Gujarat. You were there too. I was so bad, that I got myself a speech coach and I've been learning for a year, attending classes and I have a teacher. How do you do it so well? Can you give me some tips? There are a couple of different things. One is

that I've been often asked that, "You are a Gujarati. How do you speak Hindi?" Earlier when I used to work for Sangh, people used to think that I'm from North India, but I live in Gujarat. The reason was that we sold tea at the railway station. So my village "Mehsana"-- "Meh" means buffalo. "Mehsana" means buffalo. So in my village, when the buffaloes... would start giving milk, they would be transported to Mumbai. And people would sell the milk in Mumbai. When buffaloes would stop giving milk, they would be brought back to the village. These business people

from Uttar Pradesh were our brothers. When they came, they would wait for the goods train. And when they'd get the train, they used to fill it with grass to be able to accommodate four buffaloes. So about 30-40 people were always present at the railway platform. As I used to sell tea, I would go to them. I had to talk to them. So while talking to them, I learnt Hindi. These people who came to sell buffaloes, they were also labourers. But in the evening, they used to sing devotional songs. They used to order tea. I also

learnt to speak Hindi. Is this very different, sir? Like you grew up in Gujarat, and now you live in Delhi. Personally, how different is living in these two cities? I don't live in the city. I live in a confined space in the house. I go from home to office, and from office to home. We get cut off from the outside world. The government system is such that it's a challenge to make distinction. And this is my last question, sir. I had-- But you had another question, about oratory. According to me... Let's say there is a

fight going on, or something of interest has happened. And there are four illiterate people, maybe a woman or an elderly person, and if you stand there with a mic, they will start telling you what happened. You'll see, they use great words, great expressions and narrate very well. Why? This is self-experience. When your feelings come from within, delivery style of your dialogue becomes important. Whatever you are saying, does it have the power of experience? Are you convinced while telling? Do you get that feeling when you are talking about something sad? You must have seen, many people

take offence. But I largely talk about the poor, and I have to stop myself. I become emotional. I get a lot of criticism in the press, but I am not able to stop myself. When I see such situations in the society, I recollect them and, naturally, that feeling arises in my mind. And, sir, whatever you have learnt in life, you have so much experience. With all this knowledge, what is the one thing you would tell your 20-year-old self? When it comes to the youth, I don't consider myself qualified to advise them. And I don't have

the right to give any orders either. But I would say, when it comes to the youth of our country, I have immense faith in them. A village boy is saying, "I will not work, I will do a start-up." His three start-ups may fail-- I remember my first start-up conference, the word "start-up" was new in our country. But I knew its potential. There was a girl-- I had asked those who had start-ups to share their experiences. So a girl stood up and said she will share her experience. She was a Bengali from Kolkata. She said, "I

started a start-up. Then I went to meet my mother. I told her I had left my job. She asked me what I will do. I said, 'I have started a start-up.' "Start-up? 'This is disastrous!'" She presented it in a very dramatic way. There was a time, when start-up actually meant disaster. Today, start-ups are a matter of pride. And that is why I believe that, even in a small village, if someone is a failure, people will consider him as an ideal. He is a brave guy. He is doing something. And sir, if I ask you, how

was your second term different from first term? And how is your third term different from the second term? In the first term, people were trying to understand me, and I was also trying to understand Delhi. In the first and second terms, I used to think in context to the past. Like, first, I was here, now I will go there. Earlier, I used to do this much, now I will do that much. In the third term, my thought process has changed. My courage has become stronger. My dreams have expanded. My desires are increasing. The essence of

what I'm saying is that I want 2047 to be a developed India, which means, this is not just some speech. Every single thing should be free of problems. Toilets should be built for everyone. Electricity should be available for everyone. Water from taps should be available for everyone. Does the common man have to beg from their own government? Is this still the British rule? It is his right. There should be complete delivery of essentials. Beneficiaries should get their due. All the benefits should reach people. There will be no discrimination, and that is true social justice. That

is the true secularism. So, I emphasise on those things. And its driving force is Aspirational India. For me, "AI" stands for "Aspirational India." Because of that, I keep thinking, "If these are my goals for 2047, and I am here in 2025, then how much do I still have to do?" Earlier, I used to look at how far I have come forward. Now, I am thinking, "If I am here, where will I reach by tomorrow?" So now all my thoughts are only in the context of 2047. So, my third term is radically different from the two

terms. It has completely changed. And it is a huge dream. Not for today, but 20-30 years from now? I can see a lot of people with potential. When I was in Gujarat, I used to say, "While I may run the government, I actually want to prepare the people for the next 20 years before I go." And I am doing it. My success lies in this. How do I prepare my team, who will be able to handle things? This is the criteria for me. And, sir, one last question from me. The minimum requirements to become a

politician are not very high. These are very small requirements. that 10,000 such young people come from somewhere, who may join politics, and I know, you will help them. What is your closing statement-- What you are saying is about the qualifications to become a candidate. Yes. You are not influencing them to become a politician. To become a politician, you need a lot of qualifications. You are being watched by a thousand people at every moment. One wrong statement can nullify ten years of service and dedication. You have to be conscious 24/7. You have to live with it.

And no university certificate can give you this. What would you like to say If you have a message for them. First of all, I would like to tell the mothers, sisters and young girls-- Today, in almost every state of our country... it can be more or less, but there is 50% reservation for women in panchayat, village head, municipality, metropolitan municipality. They should try to be a leader in the true sense. They shouldn't think that there was a need for women, so they have been included. That's not the case. You have to lead the society. If

it requires you to lead men, you have to do it. These are my mothers and young girls. They should stand with the quality of leadership. I'm saying this, because, in the near future, there will be 30% reservation in MLA and MP category. At that time, we will need many such groups. We have a few years now. I'll urge them to join this field, and work on making themselves as capable as possible. This is your time, understand this. Secondly, I would tell the youth of the country to not consider politics as something bad. And don't restrict

yourself to the thought that politics is all about elections. Experience the political sector and public life once. Join in any form. And today, the country needs leadership that stems from creativity. A politician rooted in agitation becomes a different kind of model. There was creativity in our freedom movement. So we got a different kind of lot. Now the country needs creativity, those who think creatively, those who make new things, those who prepare themselves, those who understand happiness and sorrow, those who find solutions, not those who humiliate others, those who find newer avenues for the country-- The

country needs this kind of community. I am not saying that there are no such people today. There is a need for new people. And today's 20-25 year olds, will be 40-50 year olds by 2047. Which means they will be in a good place to run the country efficiently. Secondly, when I urge country's youth to come forward, some people may think that I am promoting BJP. I am talking about the politics of the country. I'm not telling you to join the Bhartiya Janata Party, or choose this or that party, I am not suggesting anything. I wish

for a new flow in all parties. They should come into all parties. They should come into BJP, but also into other parties. That the youth should come forward for a new beginning. It was great. -You spent so much time with us. -This was my first podcast. I don't know how your audience will take it. Great. Your team must be tired too. Take care, the weather here, it is very cold. Yeah.