Russian laundering network exposed & rock legend Slava Vakarchuk | Ukraine: The Latest | Podcast

I'm Francis dley and this is Ukraine the latest today as adessa faces renewed attacks down on the coast we talk Russian Espionage and then interview the frontman of Ukraine's most famous and influential rock band bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you With Victory the first duty of my government is security and defense to make clear our unshakable support of NATO and with our allies towards Ukraine keep stand strong nobody's going to break us we're strong we're ukrainians it's Thursday the 5th of December 2 years and 291 days since the fullscale

invasion began and today I'm joined by our associate editor of Defense Dominic Nichols our senior foreign correspondent Roland olant and also joining us in the studio from the band OK and Elsy it's frontman Slava vuk I hope I pronounced that right yes absolutely wonderful mostly we say vuk but you know in England you can just call me slaa slaa from it's fine good well first things first as ever let's go to Dom for the news from the front lines well thanks Francis hello everybody so let's start inside Ukraine last night therefore said it shot down

30 of 44 Russian drones overnight fired overnight Russia also fired two escanda M ballistic missiles no report of where they went or whether they were shot down that resulted in four civilians killed and many more wounded one civilian was killed in HEV where a residential area was hit many more wounded across the country Ukraine's forces say they brought down drones targeting keev h pava sui chiv chassi krad Jamir Venia kitki and Odessa oblast but no casualties reported there otherwise minimal movement again on the ground chass Yar is coming under renewed pressure from the Northeast as

Russia continues to try and push or prioritizes the push West through the donbass Ukraine did regain some ground there though however just to the Southwest valika noas Silka that's about 30ks west of Vadar that is is under extreme pressure basically the push there from Russia has been mounting since vladar was taken about 2 months ago Russia took some ground to the South yesterday they seem to be trying to envelop the town they were pushing to the South yesterday but Ukrainian Counterattack by what we think is a 48th separate mechanized Brigade in the north did regain

some ground but there is a lot of pressure on Vala NOA Silka now elsewhere in the Black Sea we not talked about the Black Sea much recently hasn't been a huge focus and recently but just to the southwest of adessa security consultancy firm ombre intelligence said this morning that Russian forces had launched an attack in the early hours of today in the area of zoka that's about 40 km Southwest down the coast from Odessa they were citing Russian Affiliated media as saying that well there was an unmanned surface vehicle basically a maritime drone was deployed

against an oil Depot at a Ukrainian Naval Base an explosion fire were reported there at about 05:30 this morning local time Ambre says there's uncorroborated video footage showing a large column of black smoke rising from the area and say that if it was a Russian naval drone attack it would be the first instance of Russia using such a drone in a direct attack on Maritime infrastructure now at the time of the incident Ambre says that there were no Merchant vessels present in the Gulf of adessa but they note they there could have been but some

vessels are around there and in Ukrainian Waters have been switching off their AIS signal as the automatic identification signal basically the sort of the bleep that tells you where they are AIDS navigation and well safety basically because it tells you where the ship is hence you turn it off now advice for Amber to vessels conducting any operations around the Black Sea ports is to carry out as as you'd hope they would do anyway a comprehensive Dynamic Voyage threat assessment but they also say ambr say any Crews listening advised to remain within each V vessels designated

safe must point during any drone attacks on infrastructure and that safe must point they say should be located above the waterline amid ships and low down in the super structure so in case you are listening and that is of relevance to you I suggest you have a look at umbre and and yeah adhere to that now elsewhere Dutch foreign minister Casper Vamp speaking this morning says that the Netherlands are going to provide an additional $23 million us worth of Aid to bolster Ukraine's air defenses and cyber resilience this comes in the Wake you'll remember of

the $725 million weapons package for Ukraine announced by the us on Monday Politico reporting today they're relaying words from us house Speaker Mike Johnson must have been speaking yesterday who said he will not put to a vote a request for an additional 24 billion US of Aid to Ukraine following reports that um Joe Biden may have been um making moves around Congress to to try and get further resistance for ke before he leaves office now Politico are saying that roughly $16 billion of that sum would have gone to restock us arsenals whilst the remaining 8

billion was going to go to the Ukraine security assistance initiative I don't really understand this because I understand the political position of people like Mike Johnson and others about in their view about aid for Ukraine but this is going to restock the US shelves anyway so I think it's a little bit Pol politics overtaking sensible policy really but anyway Mr Johnson was quoted he rejected the move saying I'm not planning to do that when asked if he would add aid for Ukraine to a further resolution for funding from the government and he said it is

not the place of Joe Biden to make that decision now we have a newly elected president and we are going to wait and take the New commander-in-chief's Direction on all that so I don't expect any Ukraine funding to come up now that's us quickly up to date Francis well thanks Tom I'm going to lead with Espionage today there's been a major bust here in Britain which is making the headlines with a downfall of a multi-billion pound Russian money laundering system which helped launder criminal money obtained by Russian hackers through Britain via drugs gangs exposed in

a massive International sting now our understanding is it was run by two Russian millionaires whose organizations have connections with moscow's Federation Tower the network has been used by hackers to free up cash and assets helping to fund Russian spies in other countries as well as assisting individuals and organizations seeking to bypass sanctions imposed following Putin's invasion of Ukraine it's a really interesting story and one I do recommend reading in full it has all of the ingredients that one would expect it's got car chases it's got honey traps and banknotes wrapped in elastic bands we'll have

a link to that in the show notes but speaking of honey traps next week we're going to be looking deeper into to a sophisticated UK based spy ring which has just been exposed here in Britain one that passed secrets to mosow for nearly three years and gathered information on targets across Europe so again watch this space on that another important story which exposes how these networks operate indeed the checks today have said that Moscow is behind 100 suspicious incidents across the continent to quote its foreign minister this year there were 500 100 suspicious incidents in

Europe up to 100 of them can be attributed to Russian hybrid attacks Espionage and influence operations Europe needs to send a strong signal to Moscow that this won't be tolerated he added now staying in Europe the organization for security and cooperation in Europe often known as the osce is meeting at the moment the intergovernmental organization comprising member states in Europe North America and Asia it has its origins in 1975 its predecessors came together during the era of the Cold War to form a forum for discussion between the Western block and the Eastern block it still

serves something of that purpose today though there is anger that the Russian foreign minister lavro is being allowed to speak there with representatives of some countries walking out this morning although not as many as in some previous meetings which is leading to some comment now another interesting snippet of news Russian ships fired signal Munitions at a German military helicopter in the Baltic Sea that came from the German foreign minister yesterday now the reason we've not put that in the military segment by Dom is because we don't know when this took place it may not be

a recent development but it's interesting the timing that this has been announced with NATO foreign ministers in Brussels at the moment and of course the political battles within Germany at the moment of its support for Ukraine could this be a desire to Signal the dangers of so-called escalation or is this evidence being used by some as the fact that Russia is being extremely aggressive um against all forms of uh International um uh forces in Ukraine and around it but let's just very briefly zoom out to The Wider world before we get to our guest the

events in South Korea when its president declared that he was imposing martial law earlier this week which led to protests on the streets and impeachment proceedings against him is going to be very interesting in its significance on the Ukraine context as we've discussed Saul was becoming increasingly concerned about North Korean ties with Russia strengthened by this war signaling that they may go further in their support for keev as a consequence many are wondering is that now in Jeopardy has Saul's credibility been shaken by this we will have to see but suffice to say the parliament

has fought back robustly against the actions of the president and I don't think any speculation is really taking place there that that democracy is threatened or anything like that but it is clearly a massive move that has backfired by the president there and one that will no doubt be reeling in that region for a very long time to come of course another region at the moment reeling from recent activity is the Middle East reports broke just before we came on air about half an hour ago that Syrian rebels have reached the center of hmer City

a further body blow to the Assad regime and by extension their Russian allies again we should continue to monitor that for the actions that Assad takes indeed and Putin too and just lastly in yesterday's episode I interviewed Andre ymac the head of zelinsky's presidential office since our meeting he has flown to the us to meet with Trump's advisers so listening to that interview will give you a sense of the Ukrainian pitch at this vital moment and I mention it here because the outgoing US Secretary of State Anthony blinkin said yes today that Ukraine needs to

make hard decisions about conscripting troops to fight to quote him he said it is critical because even with the money even with the Munitions there have to be people on the front lines to deal with Russian aggression getting younger people into the fight we think many of us think is necessary right now 18 to 25 year olds are not in the fight so those are the words of blinken and of course as listeners will know ke has been very unwilling to conscript under 25s worrying about the demographic challenges that the country faces and other issues

but I mention it here because I expect we'll see rhetoric like that out of Washington only increase in the coming weeks so that's where we are in the military and political Realms and now as they say for something completely different we are delighted to have an actual rockar in Telegraph Towers uh um not that that stops domls trying every now and then who would have thought it but um Slava thank you so much for coming in to speak with us today when I told Ukrainian friends we were interviewing you they were in awe frankly um

your band is is legendary in Ukraine the country's most famous most successful one person described you to me as Ukraine's Paul McCartney and you've broken records all across the country so far and I was at your London gig last night and there were many many of course ukrainians living in London present as well and podcast listeners can hear some clips from that now [Applause] for for [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] swe [Music] canot the glory the the G [Music] my wishes let's make it to another 30th next 30th Anniversary together so does that sound

like a [Applause] [Music] plan the street he [Music] [Applause] w [Music] thank you all people for this wonderful family for supporting PR and we thank you for being with us for so many years too it's very important this new road we started just begin all [Music] all we [Music] [Music] but let's begin at the beginning the band was founded in Lviv in 1994 so celebrates 30 years this year before we get to your current tour and the significance for the war take me back to that period just after Independence what was Ukrainian music and culture

like at that time and how political was it well it's a good question 1994 most of Ukraine was still under strong influence of the like you know Soviet Legacy Soviet past it was I have to admit it was a typical post Soviet Society also Ukraine was not a homogeneous country and the west of Ukraine where I was born and raised was as you know historically never belonged to Russian Empire per se belonged only to the Soviet Union after Soviet Union invaded Western Ukraine after mol of ribbon prop PCT so it was only 35 40 40

Years of Soviet influence so it was different part of of country and that is significant also I think in developing our story because I was born in a city where western music was not in redundance but it was easy to find everything like records and everything during 7s and 80s because the proximity to the border and and Poland was also part of was pack but was much easier and much Freer country if I may use this word freeer about much more Open Country you had Rolling Stones concerts playing they were playing in waro in 197

8ish something like that and so I had an access to Western music and that was very important thing talking about Canal but most of us all of us were raised on Western music I was a huge Beatles fan and I still am and that was my first music I started listen to and I collected all records everything I could we couldn't buy normal records Like official records like you could do here or in other countries but you could find tapes cassettes with all these kind of things so I got this collection and then through the

Beatles other the music by the way mostly British classic rock like Pink Floyd or Le zappelin or then black music and everything so I was raised on mostly on that music as my friends from the band but the majority of my classmates they listened to pop music which was popular there and a lot of Russian Soviet Russian influence music and it was s such a big gap between our Niche gang and then the majority so we we started my our band in a situation when not most of our future audience fancied this kind of music

so we were like early adopters of this new rock sound that emerged we didn't have popular rock music before 1990 something there were some bands in Moscow which were like started to emerge in the mid mid 80s and late 80s they were much more political Ukrainian rock music that time was not political it was closer to progressive rock art rock this kind of thing and when then when gr emerged in the '90s so we absor absorbed everything we have and then through our heads and then we processed it and then we came back with our

own music which was based on everything we liked loved and all these kind of things we were not very political by that time I think music in Ukraine was at the very beginning was the only political thing there was if you may say that we were very patriotic in making this music Ukrainian because Ukrainian language was not forbidden or let's say suppressed strongly during the Soviet times it was different than Russian Empire approach but Russia and Moscow always made sure that all other National cultures were secondary and they tried to make everything and with Ukrainian

music it was like so if in the'80s 7s 60s if you were doing folk music it was okay if you were doing pop music they were not very happy with Ukrainian songs being popular all over the Soviet Union so when the Soviet Union collapsed it was much easier to express yourself in your mother tongue that's what we were doing in other bands so this so if I may say that was political maybe sub consciously so we didn't say okay this is our position we want to sing in Ukraine it was my mother tongue so I

just wanted to do that but I think now looking back it was a sort of political because we changed the whole Narrative of Ukrainian culture and we made it mainstream culture well that thread then from the orange Revolution all the way through of course to maidan in 2013 very strong and I think that is an example where of course things do become perhaps more evely political and since the 14 Russian annexation of Crimea you've stopped performing in Russia can you just talk about maidan and 2014 and the role that your band and your work has

has played in in the cultural scene in Ukraine since then first of all um you need to understand the context galza was a very successful rock band in Russia we played as big venues there as they're as big as venues in Ukraine so it was Arena stadiums and all these kind of things we never sang a single song in Russian so we were probably the only band which was hugely popular there singing our own Ukrainian songs so it's very difficult now to imagine that but that was the reality of early 2000s and probably 2010s the

beginning of then we were in the middle of touring and we had this huge tour in Russia which started 2013 when Myan occurred and then everything else and all that and reveling was Crimea and everything so we were caught in the middle of the thing and suddenly we had for example you need to understand we had sold out Arenas one of them in St Petersburg for 12 to 14,000 people and it was cancelled and then next day or two without explanations we still didn't know that something was happening in Crimea and then 2 days after

Russian started that development and there this first things like little green man and everything started happening and then we understood why what was going on suddenly we after that we cancelled the whole tour and we decided I remember this day in our office we had we had this meeting and said and I said to my guys and to our back office that it seems like we're not going to play there in a foreseeable future maybe never we don't know but this is new reality and and we just lost a big part of let's say our

Market but we were not regretting it was just a reality we couldn't even think about playing there anymore because they the the blow the politically emotionally and then suddenly military and physically that Russians made to our country was and still is certainly will be for Generations unforgivable so we were not very political in Myan I was my done I I was present there as a citizen so I I went there because I supported this idea to fight against this violent actions of our government it was only then when I became very very vocal so when

it was just the beginning in the political part I said that I I would I was supportive of Ukraine being part of Europe without any doubt but then I didn't want to become a part of this street politics it was more than I was sympathizer but then when all the m and students and everything the meetings were brutally dispersed and then suddenly me alongside with millions of ukrainians we came out and we couldn't be silent anymore so then things started reeling very quickly I remember was playing in midan we were asked to play this concert

of unity one of these days after first attempt to clean Myan to swipe it out and it was unsuccessful attempt by the government by yov President and so we went there we played this peaceful concert we got the biggest crowd in our history 20 250,000 people were in midan with that so we got all these people interesting than people from the opposite so-called anti-an movement they also were allowed to see us because there were a lot of fans there and wanted them to come because there was a huge sign of thinging that we are the

same Nation so we need to be United under some very important things so we were a unifier of all these people so they came and then after the concert ended like 10 or 15,000 of them who were there they went back to their own let's say little like anti-an that they had probably less than mile away from ours so it was like surreal but very important but I was still still a peaceful part and then horrible things happen so from just being a sympathizer me and my guys we you know found out ourself in the

center of this thing like two months later but let's go to during the full scale invasion you joined the territorial defense Battalion of Le oblast that's that's correct and so tell me about that and why you thought that was so important there were two reasons number one reason was I think it was a good example I mean if you do that like you show this example for other people for let's say I don't like the word ordinary people but if some someone who is considered a celebrity or well-known person goes to the conscription point then

that's a good example for everyone interesting that I didn't need there was no need to facilitate other people there were lines back the time standing to to the conscription points and people wanted to volunteer number two I just thought it was right thing to do to come and propose myself to be useful in the part of resistance which can be you know effective and useful so I came there and said just I don't know what I can do but I'm a trained psychologist so I had in Ukrainian universities you're obliged to have a basic military

training one universities so you're at the end you are like officers of Reserve so I was train military psychologist so I actually came there and they say look it's very obvious so you what that's what you have to do so go and boost the morale of or guys of soldiers and just do what you always do sing songs meet with them just do something that they make them more strong make them happier make them just more relaxed or whatever and so then when I started all these meetings with soldiers in the front line and since

then I been given more than 280 I think closer to 300 performances already on the front line and not far away so yeah and I'm still doing it well and you're in a worldwide tour at the moment as I say I was at the gig in London last night but just can you tell me about the fundraising project that goes alongside that because it's not just a raising awareness of the issue of Ukraine and what's going on at the moment but it's also raising money for specific elements isn't it yeah first of all we try

to combine things and to kill multiple Birds number one and most important thing I I still believe that it's a informational campaign so to spread a word about Ukraine and to keep people focused on Ukrainian issues because alongside with ukrainians there were many Brits yesterday and like friends relatives and and even people who are interested in our music because just recently we started singing in English so we a little bit it kind of we expand our audience day by day so it was important and I think it's I think I still think it's number one

because through music through culture you can resonate with people in a more effective way especially now after 2 three years fatigue of people from war much more effective way than just showing them news from the front line cuz people tend to get tired from every everyday news from war from Frontline and what we do I think it's probably works with people's minds and hearts in a more subtle way so it's very important number two we certainly raise some funds we do it directly through getting some income from the concert and through my foundations and other

charity foundations we buy very necessary things for front line but also we do some auxiliary things like for example auctions that we had yesterday or some special funraising programs that we do together with other sponsors or Partners or whatever so one of these for example there was yesterday alongside with our partner the biggest Ukrainian it Company Soft Serve we just decided to to raise funds through auctions for 30 ambulance cars and so we are very successful that I think we going to fulfill the task soon so 30 ambulance car will go to the regions touched

by War mostly in the front line not necessarily to M tree but to hospitals to maternity houses all these kind of things they just badly needed fully equipped ambulance cars that are specially designed for extreme conditions you know so yeah that's what we did and and keep doing I know some of the the summons are the the auction the gig yesterday were quite extraordinary 1,300 for a vinyl record signed by yourself so yeah that's that's what people try I mean there are there are some some even more extraordinary things I can tell you that in

back in Ukraine we had one auction when one of the businessmen he bought microphone my basic odx 6 microphone which I used many years ago as my main vocal microphone during tours he bought it for £200,000 market price of this mic it's very cheap it's 200 maybe yeah and then that was the question of you know but I think it's a rarity thing it's certainly a museum value thing but I didn't expect someone to pay that much but that he didn't pay the this guy who is a just famous businessman gives a lot of his

Aid to troops as well so I didn't think he wanted to show off I think it was his act of Act of support both of Ukrainian military the idea of like Ukraine per se but also Ukrainian culture because you by paying so much for a mic of Ukrainian band you put the status of this Ukrainian rock music on a high level so you just say okay that's worthy that's how we're willing to pay for that because it's worthy so I think it's a good example well just a couple more questions for me before I bring

in the rest of the team you mentioned there that you do of course not only gigs around the world but also in Ukraine itself I know you organized five concerts I think in October and the air raid siren went off can you just tell listens what happened next first of all you once again you need to understand the context we're living in a very surreal not to say absurd situation where from one point of view Ukraine has has a lot of security issues Air Raids Sirens shellings really difficult really extreme really dangerous from the other

point of view people get used to everything so if you if your listeners can imagine suddenly they were not witness it but they had Granny's or whoever witnessed London under the blitz it's every day it was horriable day but still you had to function so you had shops working offices working cafes working pubs working the nights so people have to live so that's what happened in Ukraine people still live not normal but normal life and you've been there many times places like kiv cave Neo you see a lot of people on the streets you see

cafes opens restaurants open and so people also want to enjoy their own music now you can't get a lot of people to together like Stadium concerts it's impossible because you certainly need to go to hide when there is emergency so because it's dangerous to expose so many people like imagine something can happen CU for God's sake uh I don't want to that really happen but you it can so you only confined to smaller venues like the capacity of 1,000 or something like Club or theaters or something like that but then there is one venue in

Ukraine which is Arena sport arena in C which has a lot of place underground to cover bigger crowds so that's the only place OK El could play because we're a stadium band so we decided just to make four or five concerts like a residence there so we got like 60,000 people in these 5 days and un days we were lucky it was okay and then the fifth day there was emergency and siren raid started to sound like 20 minutes before the end so we still didn't cancel the concert because we were almost done but we

didn't make three songs to unor and then and we had to stop and cancel and then we felt like we didn't say everything so it was something we like we had to to point a period you know and so we decided to join people in the underground actually it was like under literally underground the metro station so we went there with our guitarist I took megaphone and we started singing songs so we probably had half an hour with people it was crowd singing Big Flash M I really enjoyed it [Music] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] I think

that probably under circumstances it was the best ending of this five night resident you could even imagine if it ended normal way probably it wouldn't be that dramatic and that so much relevant to the situation you know so we ended up with this underground singing and I think it it it it will go to history at least history of well one final question for me there's an element we've not talked about you're not just a musician you're the son of a professor of physics and you have a PhD in theoretical physics but politics politics that's

correct is also another huge part of your life used to be used to be where you founded a political party in 2019 and you were elected to the parliament with speculation that you would be a candidate for the president do you ever I've heard that you rors too do you ever think that you know in a parallel universe you not Selinsky a president right now I tend not to think about that first of all because I never wanted to run I think one of the reasons and I was very V about that is that I

didn't think I was I was ready for that but also number two and maybe for me inside is more important I knew that that would that would require from me to sacrifice music to give up doing music and I can't because I am a musician to the to My Flesh and Bones so I am I'm someone who can't help doing music I can't help living without music so I never seriously consciously wanted to but people yeah people had different things in their minds so I tend not to think the way you put this question I

think that everyone in the position or president today would act the way he does he does his best to help a country and suddenly as a commander-in chief he deserve support of the nation that's what we need to do I mean we all in the same boat so we need to come safe to the point of destination which is end of the war and end of the war with just peace when I say just is a very wague notion very wag kind of thing but for me just is something that first of all and most

importantly ensures that Ukraine as an independent European Democratic free country will have this Independence and this free choice of their Destiny irreversible so that's for me a must and then yes suddenly there are all difficulties around it so yeah we can talk about that but yeah that's War we don't have any other choice them to fight you know well you've put that very eloquently like a politician are you all done with politics for ever yes never going back you know it's a very direct question on which I will say direct answer no I don't want

it brilliant well thank you very much Roland you've been listening very patiently so I know you're a huge fan so he's been fan fan Girling in the corner I'm not as much I mean I haven't listened to her as much as I should have but yeah it's quite an honor be in the room with you I suppose going back and I was living in Russia back then I remember when you were huge in Russia as well and how that just changed like that but I wanted to go back actually to that kind of common cultural

heritage you were talking about where you came from in early 1990s L West Ukraine and you seem to draw quite a clear distinction between what you guys were doing and what the kind of the parist era rockers in Moscow and Leningrad the the ddts The Kino you see yourselves as quite a different kind of Beast absolutely from these guys absolutely we always consider ourselves to be part of western culture we never wanted to be part of let's say Soviet culture or if some like I don't like this idea of like Russian World never so it

was in my veins I always knew I'm a European I always knew maybe because that was a narrative in the western Ukraine even during the Soviet times nobody seriously treated Moscow as like our real true sander yeah so for me it was easy but also the the upbringing I started learning English when I was five I had access to all these kind of things I was traveling a lot we listen to Western music we wanted to be like these bands so I sadly remember when Kino emerged and it was also quite different from old fashioned

Soviet pop musac cheesy musac that was there but and it was kind of cool but I still didn't associate myself with that because I was mostly Russian Rock was always focused on lyrics on protest lyrics and lyrics was the primary thing like the arrangements Melodies sound for me I think was always lagging behind so for us it was the opposite we want to do music and the lyrics was like okay we'll we'll sing Love Songs that's most important thing and for us it was much more important I mean some of my friends who I was

speaking to I rang up a friend in Kev and had tell him I'm going to be sitting in the room with chck CA and she said yeah his best stuff is the love songs before he started talking about war and stuff which is great but I wanted I don't want to draw like some great big comparison between you and that era but it it's it's interesting to me how you've been on a journey there I mean I was just listening to your recent song Muka yeah which is a new one right and you talk in

that about visiting places from your childhood from your teenage years and looking at how you are now and as I'm not going to murder the Ukrainian by trying to quote it to you but in English it's something along lines of could I ask that kid who I was do you want to be the voice of a generation that hurts do you want to be the mirror of a generation that hurts which is very self-conscious kind of statement about who you are now and the role you play and how political your Works become how have you

gone from how do you go from that from just wanting to make good music to being actually as political as those other bands I it's a very good question and frankly I don't I'm still not sure I don't know exact answer maybe maybe the combination of my Natural Curiosity and desire to express myself generally but also the surrounding I was raised in the family of you said a professor of theoretical physics but you didn't mention that my father was very early involved in politics too because he was invited as an independent candidate to the last

and the one and only Democratic cohort of last Soviet Parliament and then he became a a president of University and everything so I was raised in a situation where you was shown that you have to contribute to your country and probably this combination of that and also my idea that I always like to have my say and it's just somewhere there I'm not always very happy with that because deep inside I'm just a rock and roll guy I want to be a manv watching your English rock stars like others who just do what they want

don't care about a lot of things some of them go political but mostly they're very far away from that just enjoying life doing music expressing myself I wish I could do that unfortunately we don't have privilege for that because in our country we can't abstain we still too early I think people in like in this country they have privilege to say I don't want to talk about politics it's far away from me it's all these dirty things happening it's like all these kind of people they are like bad people I'm a child of love all

these kind of thing it's very good to say something like that in an established country which is more or less safe more or less secure more or less determined in its way and you have right to be who you are in Ukraine we're still not at that position I would say we are closer to to a times of if we talk about America times of founding of America as a country when everyone scientists like Benjamin Franklin lawyers artists had to make the country stronger and contribute so fortunately or unfortunately we in that period of our

history so I don't want to be political that's the circumstances under which I'm acting and living push me into that direction is it difficult being this of a generation because on the one hand we might say you've got it easy you just if there is such a thing as a national Rockstar you're a national Rockstar you're not like the president you don't have to make unpopular decisions and so on but but on the other hand it's a tricky time in Ukraine right and I'm wondering about things like for example during those concerts you just had

in ke there was a bit of a controversy about recruiting officers showing up during the gig and trying to to to recruit people outside and I think there were some people some people tried to say did you know about things like this how do you manage that kind of things how did you feel about that about having to I will give you a very honest answer I don't want to comment on that just because I don't have to and it's just my idea I want to say yeah I didn't know about that and I can

only say that we are very happy that so many people came to support us in these days and I don't think that there were any events or anything happening that spoiled that feeling for us I mean it was a great night many great nights and yes it's a very important question that you raised but I just don't want to put more speculations on that we have enough of that so I just leave it like this that's fair enough the last thing I want to say and coming to domond the last time I actually set eyes

with you was in The Breakfast room at hotel in cariv when I looked up and said hold on hold on I said to my fix it is that is that making his cup of tea and he said well oh yes it is I said let's interview him and then you'd gone like a ghost in the night and we missed our chance was that was that in that hotel that was shelled afterwards yes yeah we we were both talking about it's horrible actually the bomb or the missile or whatever it was hit the floor the room

the place where exactly used to live like probably two weeks before yeah I can't like yeah it gives me Crips there I think this would have been in 2022 um visiting the troops and doing gigs and stuff you've done a lot of that I was wondering if you could reflect on when were you last at the front what did you see and how how has things changed there that that you've seen I don't think that I can answer that question very easily because I want to be candid and I don't want to be like a

two political to say everything is all right no nothing bad happening I would say people are tired I would say it's the third year of War coming to an end I mean full scale Invasion war and there are some brigades which are touched by War were torn more than others there are different stages of people's morale present there's still people and a lot of people who are very strong very determined they physically tired they they they don't care about that just ready to fight and they ready to fight no matter how long it takes there

are some people who are more mentally exhausted too and they need to be replaced and some of them are but if you ask me honestly if I see a dramatic change through these three years I will say no you see some signs of fatigue or whatever that's absolutely clear but dramatic change no I can tell you honestly I don't see any tectonic difference or shift from what I've seen in 2022 on the contrary I remember in the spring and summer 2022 before these let's say bigger gains of Ukraine in the Autumn I think there was

more feeling of some desperation than I've seen it through 20123 and even 2024 I sadly have to go there now because I haven't been there for I've been on tour for so long so like for 2 months but I assume is almost the same there are many people who say we're sick and tired but there are many people who say no way I'm going to be sick and tired of that I want to do what I need to do so that's I think it's not black and white thank you well Dom you've waited very patiently

over to you thanks thanks SL love you to meet you if somebody not interested in politics you talk about politics a lot which is fair enough I mean you said on that you can't one cannot abstain from this and I think you said music is a much more effective way of communicating now I I take your point that you do not want to be a a political figure but you are in a position of cultural leadership and you are and your band is the embodiment of your National spirit and resolve so I'm afraid you are

a political figure reluctant possibly reluctantly so but you are a political figure and you are very engaged you know with a lot of particularly young people so I don't mean to insult you with this question but I have to ask where do you stand on the conscription issue a lot of the people you play to a lot of the people who support your music are exactly the young people who are not being mobilized because of their AG do you think the cult the um conscription age should be lowered it's a very difficult political question which

I will leave to politicians I don't want to comment on that I say it's a very tough and very difficult questions but I will say something I want to say because I remember you were talking about about some foreign politicians talking about that it's an egg and chicken thing because if you say that you need to have more people to fight I can say the opposite we need more ammunition and more weapon and More Everything to give that to people so they can't fight and so this is as important and we're not getting everything we

want to unfortunately we are given much less than we promised and let's see honestly that's what happening so I think both of these problems should be solved and that that will be fair [Music] well thank you very much Slava for your time today you will come to you last for your very final thoughts I'd be interested actually to hear a little bit more about why you chose now to be releasing an English album but just hold that thought for a moment if I could go first of all to well Dom again for your final thought

okay thanks FR sorry if this is a jarring transition but I note armenia's prime minister Nico pasan said yesterday that Armenia has effectively reached in his words the point of no return regarding its membership of the collective security Treaty Organization the Russian Le grouping now I'm this reporting came from from myw The Institute for the study of War pasang criticized the CST allies for failing to respond to aayan's encroachment on armenia's internationally recognized territory in 2021 and 22 so much so that Armenia no longer participates in CSO activities or policymaking now I raise this because

the CSO is occasionally referred to as Russia's equivalent of NATO it's nothing of of the sort clearly but I want to put it on our radar because I think as potential peace negotiations are muted it's going to be mentioned time and again in the context of any role for NATO or troops from NATO countries potentially an article 5 light scenario that we've discussed here before might be counted by Russia demanding a role for the CST um knowing that any areas policed by that organization would be much less robust in standing up to any potential Russian

provocation or aggression now I might be leaping too far ahead here and I know ke would be unhappy with the csj having a role but they may not get a vote on this they might have to concede on that point but I just think we're going to be hearing a lot more about the CSCO in 2025 as negotiations are muted and we just need to know what it we're talking about and why Putin I think would be very happy for that to be in the mix and he will try and big it up as an

equivalent to Nato in order to give it a bigger role than it absolutely deserves well thanks very much Dom for that Roland you next I don't have a final thought I just have extra questions I'd like to ask SLA but I know we're out of time so so so me no it's a big one though I was wondering like that the war and this is a rockstar question it's not a hard political question I'm not going to pman you look well yeah before you say something it's not that I want to hide from political answers

I just think that person like me will not bring more clarity and more calmness to a very complex picture now but contributing answering hard political questions so I'm just trying to abstain and leave it to those who have to do it anyway so this is it it's not about me it's about other people making that that answers I would rather answer on something that I think my answer will be effective you know let me let me then ask um I think the war it brought a lot of attention to Ukraine I mean a lot of

people you know anecdotally we might say a lot of people didn't know where Ukraine was on a map that's probably not quite true but it got a lot of attention and it obviously gave a high profile to to Ukrainian culture to Ukrainian rock music but other stuff Ukraine stuff I was wondering if you feel like that big wave of Interest whether that's now receding whether people are forgetting about Ukraine or whether it's being sustained and Ukraine's cultural presence in the world will have a sustained Boost from this war so this is a great question I

was waiting for um I think that yes and no obviously you can't be in headlines for years that's obvious and Ukraine as a topic as a nation as a country as a name as a brand was certainly much more popular or much more Googled a year two years ago than now it's normal people can't be happy watching headline news from The Front Line 24/7 for months for years it's okay so I think that from like politically suddenly the interest to Ukraine unfortunately is lower than it used to be that's why I think culture as a

very important part of nation's profile can step in because culture is in very privileged position if you doing something great that comes from your heart and resonates with heart with other people it can stay long longer maybe for a very long time you can stay connected with other people people in other nations for example if you do great movies if you write great books if you do great music if you I don't know have great baly or whatever so people are going to love that no matter are you in headline news or not so a

good time to introduce yourself as right now or it used to be like for these three years or something because at least people turn their attention to that probably with bigger interest than he used to be before and they are ready to give you time to give you opportunity to to introduce yourself and express yourself and then it can have much more lasting effect and that's why we decided to release our first ever English album It's not that we did it for political promotion or whatever no but we thought that probably if we contribute to

this general idea of Ukraine to promote ourselves the world with our album in English making songs that we love that sound a little bit different from classic ofal but probably close and more familiar to ear of British American other listeners that can build these Bridges between us and you and your audience which can be much more robust and much longer lasting than any political kind of stuff happening and I I still believe that's most effective way I always give an example that imagine some something bad happening and I wish never it never happens but was

like country which culture or impact cultural come impact is huge all over the world like I don't know Italy was there Cuisine and Opera and sport cars and everything and fashion like all people will be sympathetic so much all over the world because they all love it they know they they have the connection there will say oh no no we we need all of us need to defend that country or whatever because you already establish is this strong cultural emotional bond with the whole world so we need to use this opportunity to establish this bond

to create this kind of connection with the whole world and we as oal as a band we want to make our modest contribution to that well s thank you very much for your time today you've been extremely generous with that time and I know you've got still got to recover from last night but you do have the final word so is there anything else that you would like to leave our listeners with around the world to continue answer that questions so the album we released it's called Lighthouse and it's now everywhere on platforms we released

it with Warner two months ago a months and something like September October sorry and yeah we would be happy if you guys listen to it if you we'll be twice happy if you enjoyed it if you love it and yeah more to come but so far these are 10 songs from us and and suddenly a part of that you have a lot of Ukrainian songs you can also check out and this will be maybe my final words for this conversation and thank you for having me I think it's a great conversation great questions and thank

you guys for everything you do because every day you talk about Ukraine you spread word about Ukraine you raise awareness about Ukraine you make your audience focused and transfers to your politicians focused and that transfers to potential help to Ukraine so you help Ukraine with what you're doing thank you when I fall asleep I dream I dream Angels when I walk the streets I hear I hear I'm singing somay will be one stop it will be one thought tonight I'll be your light I'll be your light out sh it sh [Music] it Ukraine the latest

is an original podcast from the telegraph created by David nolles to support our work and to stay on top of all of our Ukraine news analysis and dispatches from the ground please subscribe to the telegraph you can get your first three month for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk Ukraine thelatest we are also giving University students globally unlimited access to the telegraph completely free of charge just visit www.telegraph.co.uk student sub or sign up to dispatches our Foreign Affairs newsletter bringing stories from our award-winning foreign correspondents straight to your inbox we also have a Ukraine live blog

on our website where you can follow updates as they come in throughout the day including insights from regular contributors to this podcast we also do the same for other breaking International stories you can listen to this conversation live at 1 p.m. London time each weekday on X follow the telegraph onx so that you don't miss it to our listeners on YouTube please note that due to issues beyond our control there is sometimes a delay between broadcast and upload so if you want to hear Ukraine the latest as soon as it is released do please refer

to podcast apps if you appreciated this podcast please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it helps others find the show please also share with those who may not be aware we exist you can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing Ukraine pod telegraph.co.uk we do continue to read every message you can also contact us directly on X you can find our Handles in the description for this episode as ever we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the

world Ukraine the latest was today produced by Rachel Porter executive producers are Louisa Wells and David nolles [Music]