A prisão humana | ENTRE MUNDOS - 13/11/2022

foreign what did your family think when you said I'm gonna work in a jail okay a little bit [Music] barbecue and prison what do you think about that you developed a talent here [Music] I don't see the sentences I just see the people they go to court to get punished I mean they go to prisons to become better Neighbors we release people to the society [Music] what are you hopeful for freedom Freedom as soon as possible I'm sorry I'm sorry foreign [Music] no one have tried to escape no one has ever tried to escape this

[Music] prisoners is [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] Howden [Music] foreign foreign I know that Norway is different in that sense but we grow up watching prisons on TV we grow up reading about prison prisons and books and you have an idea in your head how different is your experience from what you thought it was going to be when I started in the 80s it was like that also in Norway it was yes it was bad presence it was very high reoffending rate 60 70 percent reoffending rate it was a lot of violence it's 60 to 70

percent of the inmates that used to believe yeah they came back came back to prison so what's that rate nowadays here 25. [Music] foreign so this is where the inmates families come to spend time with the inmates is that correct yeah do inmates Reserve this house whenever there is a visitation how does this work you have to of course behave be a good inmate okay so this is a reward yeah I will say so [Music] the summer is over but here is a lot of colors flowers is that where they do their gardening yeah we

have a group of inmatesu are responsible for the whole area outside they can sit here on the barbecue barbecue okay barbecue investment what do you think about that [Music] as we know geographically speaking Norway is very far from Brazil but when it comes to how the correction system works I think it's even farther yeah not just from Brazil but from America as well if you shall have the inmates inside the prison for the rest of their lives maybe that's okay but if the image shall be released out to the society like they are in Norway

everyone will be released with everyone and then they will be citizens Neighbors and hopefully they don't get back to prisons at once when they are released that's uh the thinking behind this Rehabilitation work that we release people to the society [Music] foreign [Music] how long have you been here Kuala and now I've been here in one year now one year yeah when did you know how to fix cars before a little bit many things you can do and new things fixing and time go really quick if you just sit in a trailer it's boring [Music]

some people out there outside of Norway they view this prison as an example of generosity Humanity you're stripped of your freedom I understand yeah what are the biggest challenges when it comes to living in Holden and what are the best things about living here number one is that is your family you can only visit one time in a week and you have short call time yeah like just you take you you won't talk to your wife maybe or your kids or friends like when you want but now you don't have this time and you don't

have this Freedom you can go outside you need like this one day and you gotta go outside you're locked in and like this food time and everything like this this is difficult and when you are alone in your room then it's hard then you feel you miss your family and like we think about your case your family your life and you laugh outside in this place they have small units only 10 inmates in each unit in other prison around the world you have 20 up to 15 minutes in each unit and in each cell here

you have your single cell you can be alone if you want to do that we have some units here where we can already invest don't have to be in the workshops and you can stay on in the units but we don't isolate them good [Music] so this is my home excuse me well you have a nice view a nicer view than I have really is that so yeah it is so well it's just a rental I'm gonna have to leave it some sometime I'm sure you'll be happy to leave [Music] of course I have a

radio and a water boiler I have my bed this is a TV with we have this DVD player and we're very very lucky that we have this and and the library helps us getting movies yeah movies and books and everything yeah oh nice it's very nice this is my closet and we have a refrigerator very happy for that wow with my carrots trying to lose some weight you look great yeah thanks [Music] and I have my oh you have your bathroom yeah very nice every cell has its own bathroom we are very very lucky to

have that this is a fairly new person it's it's only uh 12 years old I understand why it's interesting for you for example to be here instead of a another prison because this is known as an example when it comes to the incarcerated Community when it comes to jails why do you think this lifestyle inside a prison is important for Society for those who aren't inmates for those who are not locked up for those who have not committed a crime well I think it's maybe it's it's the mystery of it that most people they don't

get to see the inside of a person maybe people think it's it's a lot worse than it actually is what was my first day in prison like it's been so long that I can't remember but I remember that I was I was shocked at how normal it was it it was nothing like the movies not at all I remember people taking good care of me I was in my early 20s and and I came in and the older guys they asked me is this your first time yeah and they had they knew all about this

about the first time so they okay you don't have anything you don't have money you don't have food here take some food call home do do your stuff come on and play cards with us we can go to to the gym together you know go to school make something all the time they open the door at eight o'clock okay and we have then half an hour before we to fix breakfast and everything and then we have to go to work or or if you don't have work then you're then you're being locked in you decide

if you're going to be a part of a workshop if you're going to work or not and if you're not working can you leave your room can you walk around or you stay here normally no uh so I'm going to just say no to that because there were some situations that you're allowed outside if you if you have something to do but normally you're locked up all day and this is normally it's my choice because if you want work then then they got work to for you so and it's a choice that you do day

by day or is it something you commit well if you if you if you're being offered a place to to work during the day and you never use it then they say well maybe someone else can use it so yeah so uh it's uh you just you can't do whatever you want of course this is still a person even though it's a nice person it's still a person when you're locked up in in the night and you're all alone then you start you know automatically start to think about what's going on outside is my girlfriend's

still there you know how are my parents my my daughter how is everything and this is for me the the hardest part all the things that I that I have left outside that I don't that I don't get to have any control over anymore when I'm inside there beautiful [Music] space is happens [Music] is this is for kids yes if you see is a big one who is out there yeah for for adults you see also with the roof and we make this wow did you did you know how to do this before you got

to hold them no no you learned out here wow here I'm gonna stay maybe one and a half years okay but at least you learned something right oh yes I made this since before Christmas I think I made about 70 80. wow three cookies and I put it in a small bag it's really really nice you did everything yeah and I'm gonna paint it but they're going to do it when I come home I like that Harley and I tried to make the same same color do you ride a motorcycle at home yes but I

don't have anyone know okay very nice thank you yeah you're welcome best of luck keep it up yep foreign [Music] do you see the difference between someone who is a victim of their environment who had no opportunities had no education came from a dysfunctional family and therefore became a criminal and someone who basically is born bad have you seen both of them yes I have seen a lot of persons who don't have and had a good background and they dropped out of school very early at the violent parents and so on and end up in

prisons but I also see persons like that have been good people oh I see yeah so we focus on we have a very good school here we give them education they give them diplomas so they can get out and get some work can I try just a small piece but like a little piece I didn't know how to cook before I started at all I've seen of course I need a little bit my father have a restaurant my father has a restaurant too cooking is in My DNA kind of um so I enjoy it actually

I wish I could say the same I can only make eggs that was me before I have hope then yeah exactly how long have you been here I've been here now two years nearly two years yeah um and how old are you 26 26. why are you here I'm in prison for drugs 45 kilos of amphetamine I got nine years and six months and yeah I've got a long sentence nine years and six months so I'm gonna have to spend do you talk to your family I talk to them regularly every week I have video

without videos I Skype them every week so I do have good family communication yeah you just it's a situation I'm in so it's not forever it's only temporary it's not permanent so that's what I tell myself every day you know the situation this chapter of my life is only temporary not permanent so these are vegetarian burgers made from red beets and potatoes and onions and and stuff we have a few vegetarians here in prison yeah so we just finished cooking them so this is now going to uh I don't know the English word actually but

they're going into the oven to to finish oh okay so um it's not much but no I'll follow you picturing you 15 years from now when you think of the time you spent here but how is that gonna it's gonna hit you no at this present time of food like my time is well spent um because every day I wake up I've got I'm learning something new every day if I didn't have the restaurant if I didn't have hair to keep my mind busy I don't know what I'll be doing myself I'll probably be climbing

the walls yeah so it's good that I found how can I see I kind of found a purpose like I like coming here I like serving people I like making a like for example I made this menu okay going on the computer and typing out menus starter the welcome drink yeah start the main course dessert so the allergies what do you think the rest of the world can learn from this system what do you think the rest of the world can learn from a more humane idea behind punishment if you just look at the numbers

then Norway have have excellent numbers of uh relapse into criminality and stuff like that and that is of course part of a part because of uh because of the welfare system and and also because we are a small small country we are not so many people we're just five Millions when you're going to prison if you have to go to prison for some years and you're being treated like uh not like a person and everything is supposed to be the hardest way and you're not getting any you're getting robbed from all your rights as a

human being I mean I am I've been the person for for several years but I can still vote uh I can still get a job I can still get on the welfare system I have all my rights as a Norwegian citizen still and I think this is very important because if you if you're getting deprived of all your rights and and everything and you come out and what you have left [Music] before Halton you already worked with art you already enjoyed drawing you knew you had a talent or you found out here no I just

typed out here just really my first time in my life are drawing wow [Music] do you think time goes by faster if you're dealing with art actually when you're dealing with audio don't think about time because when you're working with something you love time for you is nothing [Music] and put it like this just bring it one paper [Music] take the carpet over this is like all technique of printing and prepare what do you miss most from your time before housing what do you miss most from yeah is there anything at all that once you're

out there you're gonna look back and say I missed this or that from I'm just going to change your life for better and be a good person choose your people you're hanging with [Music] wow that is amazing and also depend of the color if you put three heavy color it will be so dark if you put the list color it would look like unique I look at you and you got here and you didn't know how to do this so in a way you you grew a talent you developed a talent here do you feel

the emotional growth as well or no is there anything is there a beginning in the beginning no but now you're getting yes you feel you can do something better you think you can leave a better man than you arrived of course people don't realize the talent that is quite often in between those walls they look at those walls and it's almost like a different world it's invisible but like coming here and meeting you and seeing what you're doing and learning and developing and uh to me it's uh it humanizes this place does that make sense

it makes it human like you're a man with the beginning when you're coming here you're feeling like that because it's a different life different flow of level outside you have your freedom you wake up as you want you go to meet your friend anytime you want you can drink beer you can do whatever but when you're getting here you're getting to learn boundaries like you've been in army you need to learn ABCD to be a good person that's why we are here [Music] [Music] thank you foreign why should a prisoner someone who might be a

serial killer or someone who has murdered someone why should they have a second chance when the victim has none are your muscular maybe you shall stay in for life we have one muscular in Norway yes yes and I don't think he will be released I don't know but I'm not sure but the other also murderous rapists and everyone who are in prison will go out in the society one day yeah and therefore we have to prepare I think the society and them because if they go out from a prison where they have been treated very

bad they will be very dangerous very dangerous and they maybe will kill more people oh no yes [Music] are not so very different from other people but they have a little bad start sometimes [Music] [Music] good morning [Music] stop screaming well [Music] it's a star are those your fans this is the activity you know leader in Bali prison very Universal oh really in talksport and now she comes with a bunch of inmates we have been helping with the rigging and nothing and now they come to listen to so yeah playing the conference so they're inmates

yes no it's fascinating how relationship between inmates and officers is different from what I think the rest of the world expects it to be here very different you were in prison for domestic violence yeah yes sorry to say you know one thing is for you to come out of prison and get a job and continue your life in spite of that experience that's what happens in most countries unfortunately the former inmate wants to almost become invisible to the justice system they don't want to call attention you guys are on a stage every night people are

applauding you they're leaving their homes to watch you have you ever encountered a group of people that felt negatively towards you know people that were in a jail for of course a while yeah some some sometimes but that's very rare yeah I think people like this when they say you know the name guilty as hell is it because we say okay we have done something that is not totally unacceptable you know and we take now we have got a sentence and now we're doing our time but you'll see from guilty yourself okay cut the crap

we are not innocent we're guilty but now we play music and do something else to take it or leave it when I say it's better that people play in a blues band and robbing banks you know so when people say yes it's okay the music is not because these people are going to be rock and roll stars but they use the music as a you know to to get on with their life find a job get a place to live foreign [Music] what can the world learn from this kind of behavior of not thinking about

your well-being but actually thinking of the well-being of an entire country I think there's something interesting in the way you pose that question right other people's well-being and my well-being they're interconnected aren't they I think that's like a part of the understanding having a more equal Society there's this understanding that that benefits all of us beginning of time normally it was a hard place to live it was really hilly and Rocky and you didn't have that much fertile land only like two percent of the land is like made for farming so you never got that

big class of land owners a lot of landowners but owing like owning very very small farms and so everyone had to collaborate from the beginning that's fascinating and nobody could really own that much so so it's never been me versus you but it's always has been us as a team you know a lot of times when we talk about crime when we talk about people that are in prison we talk about how horrible that situation was for the victims or of those crimes but is there a way of also viewing them as victims of society

if you look at in terms of like the the the criminal act their perpetrators but it's because they're like life stories story a lot of like the people who end up uh in a situation where they do something illegal and I think this is the notion that a lot of Norwegians share if not all of them they a lot of them have been like neglected as children a lot of them have been like having issues with like drugs and substance abuse which in a way also is like more and more considered like a medical condition

and not like a sort of like delinquency or like whatever you would see in the U.S for instance where you have the War on Drugs so I think in general a lot of people would see someone who is in person as someone who has like made some bad choices in like difficult situations [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] what did your family think when you said I'm gonna work in a jail oh they loved it they did yeah and I think they just expected it okay I know it was no surprise to them a lot of

people that will watch this episode will focus on the Privileges of being here you can learn how to cook you can learn how to draw you can have you know I don't want to say nights off but celebrate Christmas if you will with your fellow inmates what are some of the unforgettable resemblances of the fact that you are arrested the fact that you are in prison like what would you say to those people that think that you know someone committed a crime someone murdered someone else someone took someone's life and now they're here and what

some folks would call a resort what would you say to that right so we take we take away their freedom that's what we do and that's not easy for anyone to deal with we take away a lot of their freedom a lot of their autonomy and that is that is all we do we're not I mean they go to court to get punished I mean they go to to prisons to become better neighbors I want to work in a system where we can give people Second Chances not everybody wants it or you know uses that

second chance maybe the third or fourth but um I want to be able to provide them with the tools that they need to become a better person better citizen better Dad better neighbor better employee when they get out and we don't do that by locking them into a cell and punish them like animals when that door closes at the end of the night it doesn't matter if you have tiles on the floor or if you have a flat screen TV on the wall it doesn't really matter the door's locked I wonder if you have a

couple of moments for the good and for the bad that were especially emotional for you couldn't help but stepping out of the role of the correctional officer and were just emotional as a person the woman you are I met a very young kid once he was uh 18 and uh he was 11 when his mother started providing him with Heroin so he had no chance in life like from the beginning he was so hopeless and we all he knew he didn't have a chance and I knew he didn't have a chance we did everything we

could but at the end of the day when you when I when we released him I walked into the gate I knew it wasn't going to work out and I've spent I spent a lot of time with him um but I knew it was gonna work and it took three weeks and then he died from an overdose and I yeah and this is um I don't know as many years ago but I still I still can't talk about it without you know almost crying because I wish I mean I was young I think I did

everything I could I think we as a person did everything required uh but you know you always wonder if you could have done more I probably couldn't but you know there's always that thank you so much this is wonderful it really is I hope you're proud you should be I am not satisfied but proud that's a good saying it is a good thing [Music] so okay I'm sorry sirens foreign [Music] give me hope you know it's this place but it's just I get attached to people and and I like them and I and I want

the best for them [Music] try to and I sometimes I joke about when you we have two gates to go through when when we're leaving this place and when they open the first kit and you have forgotten half of it and they open a second then you forgotten everything [Music] what are you hopeful for freedom Freedom as soon as possible that's what I'm hopeful for I want to get I want to get ahead out of there and start my road to recovery and live a better lifestyle [Music] is [Music] compressors invisibility [Music] [Music] oh when

you get out of here you can make some money as a an artist [Music] is what do people say out there when you tell them that you work at Holden yeah well they oh that's that sounds exciting they say like oh they do well are you are you reacting with the interacting with murders and yes of course and but I don't see the sentences I just see the people foreign [Music] physics [Music] if you could describe what you want to be remembered by once you leave Holland oh that was a nice guy and he is

a prison governor and he is so nice in many other countries they look at me as a lunatic crazy guy who believe in change but I want to believe in change that people can change [Music] myself foreign [Music] pretty good all done and the police is coming [Laughter]