Joe Rogan - Jordan Peterson & Bret Weinstein's Disagreement About Hitler

hello freak we are already almost three hours into this so we haven't talked about hitler oh my goodness well we kind of have we kind of did we kind of have but let me just uh do you want to lay out your argument about hitler and then i'll respond to it and uh um i don't know if i do want to i mean um i think i i actually think that i should stop because i'm kind of at the limits of i'm at the point where the probability that i will say something stupid is starting

to increase and i would rather not because just saying the things that i'm trying to say that aren't stupid is dangerous enough yes this isn't the topic where you want to make that kind of yes yes i would say maybe is there a more charged subject it's funny that it's charged because as you point out we're pretty much all in agreement about it right i mean i mean you find someone who's not and they're instantly ostracized from society right i mean anybody who has an argument about genghis khan i mean there's a really fascinating take

on this by dan carlin from hardcore history where he's talking about the amount of time that has passed since a horrible atrocity and that there are people that will argue that genghis khan who killed 10 percent of the world's population changed things so badly that it literally lowered the carbon footprint of the human race while he was alive killed some untold number of millions of people and was responsible for their deaths people look it to him and they find all sorts of positive things to attribute to his reign opening up trade with china opening up

trade routes although all these different things that people have attributed to him and that someday someone may do the same thing about adolf hitler right now that is impossible he uh he certainly made um that job very difficult with all of the documentation and especially the films but um but let's just say uh the argument that i want to level i want to be really careful to do this so that it can't be misinterpreted by anybody i'm gonna i'm gonna enjoy watching this okay if i'm cornered will you yeah okay so my argument from all

those years ago in in my uh my paper that i was did for bob trevors that i mentioned at the beginning was that hitler was a monster as we all know but he was a rational monster that the program that he deployed was not what he said mind you what he said was wrong in many places especially where it gets near darwinism it's just all tangled and broken but what he did was rational from the point of view of increasing the amount of resource that was dedicated to producing members of his population and so my

point is this is the danger that we are in if we allow ourselves to imagine that genocidal impulses are more or less gone from the world because we've all assumed we've all agreed that they're a bad thing and the point is that they exist in a in a latent program and at a point when you have austerity as a result of uh usually a an opportunity that has run its course and has resulted in the population growing to fill that opportunity and suddenly there's nowhere to go because the opportunity has all been absorbed the tendency

of people is to figure out who what other population is weak and if that population is across a border then there's some excuse for war and if the population is within the border then it's a genocide but the point is that is an ever-present danger for us okay i want to clear clarify one thing i mean because this argument was sort of phrased as we have a disagreement about hitler and i would like to point out that i don't actually disagree with anything that you just said because i certain if i remain relatively silent i

don't want to be seen i don't want it to be seen that the fact that i'm disagreeing with you means or that there is a disagreement means that it's a disagreement about any of that i think the disagreement was something like i said that hitler was even more evil than we thought he was and you i think correct me if i'm wrong you're pointing out the danger of assuming that you can put hitler in a he was just a monster box and don't think about it anymore and i would say i agree absolutely with that

i mean i've studied hitler a lot and there's a bunch of things that you can't say about him you can't say he was stupid right you can't say he was without artistic talent you can't say that he was a poor organizer you can't say that he wasn't charismatic you can't say that he did wonders for eco germany's economy in the first part of his reign and and and so it's very necessary when you're if you're dealing intelligently with the true monster that you give the devil his due yeah uh so i think the thing that

i saw in your video was your argument was that as he was losing instead of um putting the genocide on pause and uh winning and winning the award winning that he he ratcheted up the genesis yeah i don't know if it would really be i don't think it's necessarily fair to say that it was him that did that although i think he had a hand in it it does appear to me that that's what happened right and my my point would simply be and again there i couldn't possibly be less sympathetic with the individual my

point is simply that from an evolutionary point of view if your objective is coldly to increase the number of genomes that are spelled the same way that yours are on earth that a he did enslave those jews who were most fit to work in service of the german war machine right that's what those camps and not all of the camps were work camps but you know auschwitz for example was both a work camp and a death camp and so there was this uh tendency to enslave and so let me ask you a question about this

because you know i think you have to make a pretty tenuous biological argument to say that there's evolutionary utility in in increasing the number of your kinsmen but unless they're very close but but here's a slight variation of that you tell me what you think about this is it reasonable to presume that a decent survival strategy is to homogenize your environment with regards to under some conditions to homogenize your your environment with regards to racial or ethnic differences to decrease the probability that you and yours are going to be killed oh yeah again no defense

of this yes but you are right to the extent that there's another population that's distinct that that population even if it is small and has little power now might not be small and have little power later and so undoubtedly that program is there too okay okay um but i would say that the tendency to believe that evolution only functions at the level of kin when you're talking about very close relatives i believe is an error that is the result of the fact that evolutionists early on wished to operationalize fitness and it's very hard to operationalize

fitness across population level differences and so they built a definition that is about immediate kin but there's no logical reason to imagine that that peter's out at the edge okay um so that you're okay so all i'm arguing is that what hitler did was go after a population inside his border that was more distantly related to the people who were his constituents and then he went obviously after eastern europe and sought the future of germany in russia and it took 12 million russians to turn around the german war machine i mean those are military deaths

there were vastly more civilian deaths but but the point is he did not succeed in doing what he set out to do but he also didn't fail in the sense that he took a bunch of resources that belonged to a population that was more distantly related and he got rid of those people and by getting rid of them increased the amount of resource that was available to aryans this has nothing to do genes are not interested in figuring out which genes are superior all of the language about german superiority is nonsense however genes are very

interested i mean they're obviously genes they don't think but they act as if they are interested in replacing alternative spellings okay and so part of the reason that you're walking through this just so that this the track of this remains self-evident is to caution people against to to alert people to the fact that the sorts of programs that hitler both ran and elicited from people are lurking in our let's say in our genome in our in our set of biological possibilities and we have to be very awake to that fact on an ongoing basis they

are lurking in our genomes which does not mean that we as adults have this as a possibility many people will not go along with this other people have it lurking to be triggered you