The Future of SEO: 2025 SEO Tactics | Koray Tugberk Interview

hey everybody I'm with Corey tugberk today the founder of holistic SEO if you have not met him or heard of him he is the one that really popularized topical Authority he has hundreds of students with success stories and uh I think one that just stuck out to me Cory was the you had a student sell one of one of their projects for 10 million euro was that right yeah it's actually over 10 million EUR and we did just an interview uh like last Sunday and we will be publishing it very soon as well that's incredible

what's the the niche can you say that I didn't take permission but I believe when people check his profile it will be like visible uh I guess I can just say Finance but I can further information since he has yeah he has many ndas so saying more wouldn't be appropriate okay it isn't I'm not going to say the full thing it's not the guy that made the TLD as money it's not that one is it it's like a stock app okay because I like whoever made that one is part of your course uh strike strike

money if that's not the one I like that guys that not that one but it's it's a nice case today too because the strike that money comes from India charts and they implement the strategy I helped them for the initials then from there they have take well that's awesome about yeah awesome about the the student I haven't taught nearly as many people as you I always try to teach people and I love I love that feeling of seeing somebody succeed they have a dream or a vision and they actually follow through with what you've said

one it's validating as a teach uh even if you know in your head you're into philosophy I think so in Greek there's two different kinds of um and there's like a knowing that's a felt and a knowing just in your brain so like I think as a teacher when you get to see your uh succeed there's a that twofold knowing you truly get to know like man what I'm doing is impactful it is changing lives and it's just a nice thing I I appreciate the teaching that you've done thanks so much yeah it's it's actually

it's actually makes me way much more happier than my own case studies because after a point I published like 24 websites by giving their names despite some of the clients are getting angry so after a point you just get bored with that but once people start to actually implement it uh by learning from you and they start to publish their own successes and slide you back it's it's a unique happiness I can definitely agree with that yeah I uh I love that so you're is your course out still or is it did you shut it

down again uh actually my the the the person who sold his website also asked the same thing because it was funny uh I I I can explain it like this in the first year after I believe the 45 days or something I shut down the doors for a year the purpose there was actually showing people that we are not doing it just for money even if you have the money you might not be able to reach out to course so that's to student who sold his website for 10 over 10 million EUR he also couldn't

reach out at the beginning and I just have sent him actually a back door URL but first I ask him what's your motivation why you are trying to buy it for instance right now I believe I may my point already to do SEO industry by staying constant and consistent and so for now I didn't close it but in the future again we can maybe close it and we can focus on some new products as well but for now it is open the course I think was one of the biggest benefits I think of the course

was uh I don't know if you know this Corey but I watched probably about 150 hours of your YouTube stuff and uh that was before you had the course so I was watching everything and I watched it repeatedly um and then I mean I went as deep as I could go where like if you had I mean just to be honest if you had even like a glimpse of a screenshot where I could find a website on there I was like all right I'm going to look at this website I'll look at the sitemap I'll

look at the code I'll look at you know you look at everything and I don't know about you but I think that's actually the best way to learn I just look at websites and once you once once you have a certain skill level as an SEO you know what to look for yeah sometimes you're not going to you're not going to like the uh I think you have some things that are kind of clever that I wouldn't be able to recognize without your course but for the most part you're able to recognize a good bit

so I've learn um looking at that but when you had your course I had done all this work to create a dictionary of like everything that you said so I created this Google doc and then in your course like the very first thing was that dictionary I'm like man this would have been whole lot freaking easier if I just would have had like yeah we we I actually had eight beta testers for two years initial course was like 85 hours then they told me that no one is going to finish that so spent like two

years still the recordings are there actually in video cyer maybe I can edit them to the or gift it to the every member if if they don't get bored basically basically I have spent like two years to fit everything into the nine hours uh initially now it in total it is more than 14 hours and I will try to hit 40 hours of lectures uh before the end of 2024 as well and about that video recordings it's true that actually I always had uh a glimpse of video site name out of two reasons first I

have a bad videographer the second reason is that actually I wanted to keep them there as well it makes clients angry I must tell it but there was a moment an SEO from bangl he he has sent actually his son's pictures to me while studying the case studies and he said that actually we I was able to help his family to to supply the family directly so then I decided to keep it there even if it risks uh me or let's say legal situations but it wasn't a problem uh in my idea because if someone

sees the website name if they learn by the website name something and if they help them help themselves then it's okay I can also endure two weeks or of threaten from the client is okay yeah well thank you for enduring that and I don't think many seos are trying I I understand that some people would feel weird I guess about their site being seen but there's not a lot of people out there that are going to actually attack you I guess for certain sites I can see why like a publicly site or or brand might

be hesitant and I can see why your money your life sort of thing could be a little hesitant I work with a lot of that and they're hesitant with anything so but if you're not in those niches it doesn't matter in my opinion yeah it's true and it's also funny actually if you go to the topical auor that digital and if you scroll down you will see a testimonial from one of my actually current friends and former clients and we put Emoji to hide his face because he is also in finance Niche and the funny

thing is that when I mentioned this person to do to do our latest biggest s successful student the person who sold his website for 10 million he said that actually he was able to find that person by looking at the website and that's why he was able to reach out to me because he realized that that website was successful and protected from every update and then he started to learn through the website and then he wanted to do even more so I also understand why some people try to hide it but it's very rare you

know like you want 99.99% of the time you are safe to be honest it's very exceptional to type of competitors I agree that actually is a way to ask you some other that uh people ask me and some of the questions I wrote down so one of the questions and you talk about this all the time but the vision is to create a website that can survive all of the and Thrive not just survive through uh all the updates that are happening and really every update even though we can't predict what they are we know

that updates are all about one it's going to make the it cheaper or better it's some sort of business reason why there's an update Google gathered enough data where now it's confident there's going to be better results or better can be in two things one users will go to the platform and use it more or better is it's going toer them and uh as long as they're hitting certain thresholds if it saves them enough money then they're fine dipping down so with that General mindset of this is kind of how Google operates you want to

do that what do you think is going to how are you how are you preparing for the next year two years three years of SEO is there anything that you're doing what would you uh recommend so when it comes to preparing for Google it's it's not like actually regular traditional SEO you need to do business analysis you need to understand their business obstacles and I don't directly want to mention the patents but it is directly related to there because I know that for in just right now for generative AI Google IBM any Chinese company and

of course Microsoft there if you look at their pattern they are just piling up all the generative AI patterns and most they won't be able to implement at least 50% of these patterns either but they just actually race with each other to get more and more patterns and when I look at their patterns the only thing that I see is there that they want to prevent their competitor from doing that invention so for the next 3 years or the four years when I look at the Google I always follow their engineers and I always check

what these Engineers are actually working on and what type of patterns these Engineers are actually applying to for instance in my opinion the moment they mentioned the phrase perspectives in their Google surf in their also Google Blog announcement and also there were patterns related to the perspectives it was very clear that Forum type of content was about to try or exploit because they were also doing some different type of purchases just for Forum type of servers and Forum type of let's say apis I also mentioned it actually in one of my blue head Su case

studies because Google and also meta they were trying to use L5 subredit to train large language models the L5 mes explain it to me like I am five the problem there is all the L5 separated questions they are like hypothetical questions Google is good at extracting the facts but how about extracting opinions humor or criticism and getting different type of perspectives about a single type of subject then we start to see that actually the quality rator guidelines actually started to change we started to see something that they added there called human effort and they directly

told that even if human effort makes a Content less accurate they consider it more quality then they started to bring Forum structured data website name structured data and website name update so when you look at all these different layer of layer of layer of changes it's clear that we are actually going a certain type of Direction and it should actually signal you that you should have some firsters perspectives and safe answers I explained the concept of safe answers in my saon speech last year I also added to the course the topical Authority 2.0 module it

has lots of different speeches on the state just about the safe answers if you're able to add different perspectives or the same thing and its definitions you can for instance or that publicly traded company I'm not able to tell the name due to the NDA but you I believe already cat that website that starts with maybe X for instance for that website you can Define laser cutting let's say from a manufacturer angle from a user angle customer angle engineer angle Observer angle or different type of angles whenever you focus on a different perspective you increase

the chance of ranking there so for the last or let's say next two three years I suggest and last year two in my Estonia speech I directly told that go for e-commerce if you can even if you have a single and simp product on your website it might be a course it might be an ebook it might be a very simple testing kit you don't have to produce or let's say store it or ship it by yourself but try to have a login system in your website an alert system or a community that is attached

to your website as well if nobody searches for your website name and if you don't have a proper certain type of sites then they it's true that you are competing against the most similar website to you but you also both together compete against other type of sites and if your website type is in the losing cluster it doesn't mean anything after that point how many referring domains you have or how many users or what type of CTR you have if you are in the losing cluster you will keep losing the rankings there are some exceptions

like some media sites they exist even before the internet they are like real seed sources and it's not that easy to compete against them so don't compare yourself to them please if you have that level of page rank you can rank even a blank page just by typing some random giberish text there but if you are not let's say an e-commerce or if you are just a wall website I call them wall site actually just there is a wall and you put text on it there is nothing else there that I can do basically I

I can't submit anything I can't engage with anything I just read and and go somewhere else and if if I am if there are let's say 500 sites that link to an e-commerce site the search engine will rank e-commerce site directly they will just try to remove the middleman because no one searches for the middleman anymore that's one of the issues currently we are having actually between Google and the SEO community that my uh I have my whiskey website that I'm working on where it's definitely not a full application of your principles it's I'd call

it like a percent application where uh I just can't I can't train people it's really hard to do your training to get someone to to go through the rigid sort of structure that you have and uh if you have other projects that take priority it's really hard to train those people and spend the time so I'm trying to make do with what I got and um that's one of the things that from the beginning I knew I wasn't going to be able to to win if I was just focusing on let me just talk about

other people's stuff okay so like while I think it's I'm at like 13,000 monthly visits right now and for me uh all I want to do is get traffic and then switch to selling stuff because I like you said I need an action I need uh even if it's just selling bar equipment you know like a cocktail shaker or selling anything just sell something and then eventually maybe sell whiskey sell whatever but yeah I I've been trying people too that like e-commerce is where it's at and I don't know if you've seen this but e-commerce

it seems like one of the things to do with right now is just sheer volume of URLs so you have a ton of products uh or let's say uh right now I have a client where they three different sizes but um if they were to break up the three sizes into different URLs like let's say table dimensions or something that's actually a good thing you should do that because Google wants to see everyone that's winning right now see seems to just have the most the most URLs I don't know if you're it would be especially

helpful if you have actually higher level of patr because when it comes to the number of the URLs or I if I explain it from the Google's point of view H for instance there is someone that I really appreciate in Google the Dr nior and Dr mler these two people are directly working in the research Department in Google and they have invented that they call dance red rivel so when you search for white Nik Adidas socks or white uh let's say just white socks or white n socks or white Adida socks they are trying to

actually find the most representative denses in these all these queries and they try to understand what type of query phrase should be weighted in what way for inance if I remove the word white what percentage of these results will still be actually satisfaction they try to understand whether the color whether the brand whether the socks which means the product type are more important in the query and in this case they they actually understand that someone who searches for white Adidas socks they are also satisfied with Nike socks too so in this case the brand actually

doesn't need to be weighted that much so if you're able to process the queries as the search engine is doing then you are you can actually adjust number of URLs for different type of combinations of the behaviors for inance in the gun industry for some brands of the guns the millimeter the barrel millimeter is really important and you should open new pages but some of them it doesn't change the search search behaviors or user Behavior St in currency conversion industry for instance uh last year and I also tell this always the main thing about the

code updates is type of the site and query relevance they change the query networks today for instance the when it comes to the currency conversion the phrase the phrase of today's rate might be relevant to the exchange rate but two years later or maybe just today they can actually divide these query networks into two the today's rate might be associated with the tourist rate and the exchange rate might be related to the ACT conversion or conversion rate in this type of query semantic changes the rank documents also will be changing tremendously and you should be

prepared with your design or the vector that you are creating on your site and you should yes in the next core update they might change the things this might also suggest a kinds of check and refresh a maintenance mod in these topical maps and content networks like every six months if possible so with the you basically this kind of touches back on the perspectives thing too but there are way certain perspectives more or like uh break out that query like you said so would you say is it documents that would have both uh let's say

you think you're imagining that things could go in a certain direction I'll create a document just for that or you create a bigger document that simply consolidates both of the yeah Poss 8% of the time I suggest the second one a single document with multiple contexts and the behaviors that focus on one main entity and according to the search behaviors that you are observing adjust your main context and supplementary context text or the main content and supplementary content most of the time if you are in the e-commerce you will need to go with the product

related features and the buy context of course but in the midr for instance you can add video reviews text reviews doctor reviews if you're in the medical Niche for instance in the most buttom part you can add also add texal customer ruse and in the most buttom part for instance you can keep adding actually definitions or how to use it or the symptoms and more but if you have a high page rank site I mean like let's say you are 30% higher according to your understanding in the page rank better than your competitors in this

case you you can open actually multiple Pages it wouldn't harm you but most websites today they don't have it so that's why I suggest actually be more economical with single multi-purpose pages and these will also help for the main thing so page rank per page technically there are two ways of increasing the page rank on a website you will get external page rank or you will distribute internal page rank better if you can't buy links still you can actually distribute the authority in a better way and if you just decrease the amount of the URLs

the page rank per page will be increased so it's something that I would always try to use immediately on every s because whenever you remove an unnecessary page you are increasing page rank per web page which will be helpful for I literally just had this conversation with uh so I'm I'm uh while I own content spray out and I have the flask and Barrel project I'm the director of marketing for a company called helium SEO my CEO is just asking hey we just something right pretty quickly too and I for my for my taste um

but especially in the marketing Niche I'd say AI struggles to make good content for marketing uh because so much of marketing it'ss always changing there's a bunch of reasons um but every time we publish I I tested it last year every time I publish like a 100 articles rank goes down because we don't have a good enough site structure to properly distribute page rank so what's happening is exactly what you said it's just we haven't built the ship right and if we're trying to add cargo to it it's like sinking every time so it's like

no no we got to distribute the weight we got to make so that's I I keep seeing this and uh I developed this it's easy to do but I I created that just makes it really easy for me to uh to to make so I think for me what I'm looking at is it's kind I call it like my content pruning guide or something but it's if this if the P because you got to give them some time uh you need to look at how many internal links does it have what's the click depth how

many external links does it have and then uh what was the other thing I'm looking for there might be one other I was looking for too but I basically just pull in all the data and or in the past 3 months and and 100 Impressions I think and lower or something so I look at that and I try to figure out you know what's going on but uh for large sites that seems to work for me I'm typically trying to do stuff where it's like 80% even if you could make it more perfect if you

could just do the 80% of the work with a fraction of the effort do that until you forced to to do that the heavier lifting definitely because most of the time the SEO I believe there are two FAL problems in the SE industry first of all it's not regulated the second of all it's not Tau in universities so yeah because of that none of the companies on this planet actually don't have unfortunately a proper SEO team usually the leader of the SEO team has a bigger Vision but that Vision can be implemented as much as

you're actually second person third person or the fourth person so that's why you should always work with the statistics so you should spend your time while teaching them everything in tiny detail or you should just fix actually 80% of the site very easy easily and then find the biggest second effect that you can actually interact with that's exactly you you I just me uh because seos it hurts clients really because you have a limited budget and if you're trying to for your own ego or curiosity or whatever it is just like experiment or focus on

these tiny little things like get out of the world of SEO and think as a business owner you have a limited amount of money how would you get the greatest impact by diverting that money to different areas of marketing is it really that one little one probably not yeah because when it comes to the the budget Management in the SEO projects as you say you should be able to return that money back as clicks conversions and basically clicks that lead to the money and to be able to do that you will need to find the

most valid way if you play with this scientific section A lot and I love it but I have the conditions to be able to do that so it's it's my hobby basically but most of the time in SEO you will need to go with the let's say the the heavy machine you will need to handle the biggest problems first as much as possible but if you have a very strong competitor like if your competitor is also handling and fixing everything in a progressive and advanced way then you will need to play with the play the

same game with them because at the end of the day there is a comparative ranking system they don't rank you actually according to your quality they rank you according to your compared quality to the second competitor so the purpose is being more quality than them still you might have the best content according to your opinion but it doesn't mean that the Google will actually give you a space there as I say it's also about the cost you might be quality about how much cost you are creating for the search engine whether you you ver for

that cost or not and they will do lots of different comparisons to before ranking let's say during these core updates yeah there's a ton and the Google leak was absolutely itch that stuff so uh what is it the focus score uh the site embeddings s all that stuff like all that's very important and uh the thing that was biggest for me and you've already touched on it was talking about the clustering and the categories and Page rank is deprecated and now it's page rank NS and Page rank exactly that it's the uh it's clustering so

now instead of being measured against the entirety of the web you're being measured against who you should be missed which is definitely and to be honest when I see the leak it was like some some people like let's say 15% of our people in our community they were directly tagging me by telling that hey this is from course this is from this case study this is from this patent yeah but you don't need to see a leak to be that for I didn't I didn't get any surprising feeling to be honest and I was yeah

I was even a little bit s because because you don't need to see an API League to believe us you know like we already rank the websites we already do the research we already gather all these data and there is always a game that we play with these googlers and Google soci relations teams unfortunately even if they want to they can't be honest with us and we shouldn't blame them for that personally I directly tell it if a Google search license team member tell me something with good intentions I will definitely exploit it this is

my job my job is ranking size turning clicks into money and no one can blame me for that so also no one can blame them for actually lying to us so that's why we should actually professionally clear our definitions and determine our borders uh with them in my opinion so the API leak didn't shock me at all and I would like to also if the internet is good enough here I would like to also mention dear bill slowski here if he sees us from somewhere maybe I hope because he actually he was like a lighthouse

at the moment that actually I lost him I feel like actually we are going in a dark age because no one else is actually finding these pattern anymore then I found a way to actually sustain myself with my own system but still we should always thank him because he was the biggest API leak in our industry to beist and that's why if I when I do my conference I would like to honor his name and his family as much as I can I am right uh without bill I don't initially I wouldn't have adopted some

of I wouldn't have followed you as quickly as I did because I had already read so much of Bill's stuff because he's the only one I knew there there's one other guy like was it blind 5-year-old I think is his website or something anyway so there was we'll count it on three fingers yeah I guess so how many people were like Bill slowski by the Sea The Lighthouse example he even uses a lighthouse uh I I believe there is at least the lighthouse picture was used on one of his blog posts but it's a great

example though he is a lighthouse so I'm glad you call him out he is he's done a lot for the industry and I really think that you took what he did and the one thing Bill didn't do and no no worry have to do this but he didn't he didn't apply it and demonstrate Con in the same way you did I hope you will be able to are you still there edit the video okay so we just lost them yeah so cor's difference is that he applied Bill's methodology and he went further so bill was

just putting out content like hey here are some you know Concepts to think about here are some uh principles here's what's in the patents here's where we think things are going but to actually do that then to share the website to show the search console rankings that's I think thatw came back sorry for internet oh you're you're fine I was explaining to the void um why uh why I liked what I liked about you taking standing on the shoulders of Bill and you actually applied a lot of the stuff that bill was talking about and

you went further too so like I think that was the one thing that was missing is a lot of people were bored by Bill Philosophy degree so like I like that kind of stuff anyway I've always uh I mean I've been taking philosophy courses since preschool I have a weird upbringing so like to me Bill just feels like home but for people other people who are business owners they're just like I don't see how I can relate this stuff and make money and I think the next stepping stone to be like let's convert this and

show you how definitely and also after we yeah after after we lost him actually I published a video a tribute to him and I called him Charles Darwin of C because regardless of your stance uh about the the theories of the Charles Darin still yeah still it's it's a reality that actually if the Darwin wouldn't exist it wouldn't be easy for us to question the idea of God for instance and if the bill slavski wouldn't exist we wouldn't be able to actually create these ideas these Metals this level of detail or this level of confidence

as well so he he was definitely a lighthouse for our visions of SEO that's awesome into some more questions we could I'm sure we'll just keep chatting away the uh one other question that I saw that stuck out was where do you see search going with AI so I think there's two different ways the user that asked this I don't know if they didn't really explain exactly how they see this but I see this question in two there are AI search engines coming out so there's perplexity that's out I I'm sure you already have this

but there's the uh beta version or Alpha version of search GPT it dang it Cory freaking turkey man it's amazing that I can talk to a man in Turkey but still rough trying to actually conduct a full full talk with the man I'll have to move to Turkey Andrew are you bored while waiting for me I guess you can't hear me right now let's do this I guess I need to refresh this page you hear me now yeah I can okay sorry for this Interruption I know it's a mood killing fine well I'll edit this

so the question was the new but there is no internet yeah I know you need to get the musk internet man the musk net um some satellite but so where do you see search going with AI was the question both with a generative AI allowing you to create content and then there's also and then you're talking about perspectives so perspectives with AI it's a little bit challenging so there that element there's going to be AI search engines like perplexity and search GPT so as market share all of the sudden it becomes a lot more viable

to uh optimize for other search engines and I don't know if SEO will just be about Google so about the generative AI first of all I don't think that the search engine optimization will be that maybe it will be that as the version of today but it will always be evolving and changing because as long as there is a search bar and there is free market or a liberal economy model there will always be an engine an optimization for that so as an you will be safe the when it comes to the content generation methodologies

that we are using since everyone is able to generate content uh very good without knowing anything right now since we are just imitate the word combinations by using some mathematical algorithms it gets it creates actually an importance for real word entity identity and this is one of the reasons that most of the content sides actually started to be hit because you don't need to be an expert to create the expert level content anymore and if you don't have any function on the website if you don't have any brand search demand if you don't have any

brand existence it means that actually it's very hard for you to protect yourself and your necessity on the search engine result Pages this is also one of the other reasons that the Google started to rank all the Forum content because they believed that the Forum content was human made and they actually started rank human content for humans in a human based search engine so it was like search for humans then they created a notes maybe you remember the notes people were a were able to add notes to the search results by writing their experence about

the page it's not something new they tried it in 2015 as uh I believe Google answers and also Google Viki and a few more things because there was a Google siteb bar basically and you were writing your experience and let's say your opinions about the content we have we solve similar stuff in Microsoft co-pilot if you go to the Microsoft Edge open the co-pilot go to a website and there you will actually see some signals that the co-pilot is giving you for instance they actually give you the traffic amount of the website they also even

give you actually sometimes the search demand or backlink information and mentions of the slide to actually help you to understand whether the site relies on real information or real identity or not so I believe the generative AI created a problem especially for let's say reality of identity so if you are just a Vite in my terminology I mean if there is no difference between a printed wall and your website just the content it will be a problem for you but if you have a function beyond the content and if you're able to actually prove your

necessity and overall unique information as much as possible it will be safe for you and most people are not able to actually hide their fingerprints because many many people who use generative AI they leave fingerprints they are not able to hide the C gbt signatures I also explained this in my course whenever I get get actually an output for instance from the generative AI I'm always able to hide the fingerprints if you they check actually my Google outo research there is a concept there called stylometry the stylometry basically means that they are able to understand

the style of the writer and if there are 9,000 websites that write in the same style all the time let's say you always use the phrase overall at the beginning of the last paragraph which is a signature from C gbt let's say you always end your uh let's say let's assume you are always using an adverb after certain type of an type of predicate these are signatures of the large language models are using and you should know how to hide it another part is the format of the content and distribution semantics when you ask a

question to the large language models it just answers the questions in their own mind but they don't know the query relevance and they don't know rest of the document either and they don't know also which documents they are competing with so an SE will need to configure the distributional semantics and balance of the context on the page when it comes to the market share and creating documents for uh let's say chest based systems or answer based systems and regular information retrieval systems is quite different because whenever you do a search on C gbt or Microsoft

co-pilot you will see that the websites that are ranking on Google Microsoft co-pilot they are not ranking on Google they already Lo lots of updates the main reason for that is ranking for an specific question with a paragraph and ranking for a query with an entire document they actually rely on different systems and to be able to optimize for both systems you will again need to understand heavy semantics because while you are getting more rankings from large language models you can lose rankings on Google too this is also one of the possibilities there another part

is the average query length people will be creating queries with maybe 70 words maybe 80 words with L of three for instance I can add a question like what to give a cat who just fought over 8 years old with scars and with this breed with anxiety problem and with these hormones we don't ask these questions to Google type of search engines which means information rstem but I can ask it to do gbt but they will doing that they will be turning these attributes or adjectives and conditions into the certain attributes like 8 years old

cat will be senior for instance the injured or injuries in that area will be on the skin so the coat coat of the cat will be another attribute and they will turn every AG objective into an attribute then they will check all the related phrases or dances around them and then they will try to hit all these specific sections first for document then they will try to hit these sections for every paragraph the moment that they are able to find the most coverage coverage means the mutual context and the phrases between the question and the

answer they will start to rank the anwers but that document might not rank at all for the Google because there is no query for that people don't search for it so index won't be created for that so it will create a situation that seos will need to understand semantics very much better especially document organizations they will need to understand better and they will need to enhance their contextual richness which means for instance if I search for debt consolidation for teachers debt consolidation for Farmers that consolidation for veterans that consolidation for other 4,000 different OCC patients

yeah you can't open a new page for all of them but in a way you will need to find a way to represent all these occupations or their group names in your website so that when someone searches it on that chat systems you can actually be relevant and be linked from this you don't have to say farmer but you can find a more representative name which brings us to the lexal semantics if this is the hypony you will need to find a hyper which means a a better name or a grouper name a root name

for more type of entities if you're able to handle these type of information organizations then you can actually rank for both of them and these will create another problem we that we all face entry cost the entry cost for SEO goes maybe 100% higher every year so for instance in 2018 you can dominate a nich maybe just 50,000 USD today you will be spending that money in three months to be honest so unfortunately next year it will be also harder too that's why SEO should be seen as part of business consultancy and business digital identity

management if your business model is not convenient for the queries that you are trying to rank for it will be harder for you if you want to rank for let's say gpp to Euro you will see that actually Bank like websites are ranking there if this is the euro currency they can bring any predicate here like send euro convert euro transfer Euro invest Euro interest rate for Euro calcul inflation calculation for Euro euro currency index Euro technical analysis and many other things but if you are just a converter you can't do the rest so your

business model is not convenient there so you want to find a be you will need to find a way to be relevant to the other contexts and it's not about just opening the page you need to support the activities after the click and that's why the business model is really important and that's why I always say the clients that I understand you don't sell that product but if you don't rank for that part of this web or that part of the query Network it will affect the other part it's a game of compromising actually it

it is and so I want to that you said a lot of stuff that I know the people that haven't interacted with you heavily aren't going to follow so I want to make sure you said one thing that's really important support the activities after the search so there is an intent behind the search and basically what he's saying guys is you need to if you're going to give a review if you're going to give anything if you're just going to talk about something what's the point of them searching are they looking to buy a course

are they looking uh to purchase something right now is it part of a incredibly long B2B marketing funnel well have a tool that fits somewhere in the marketing funnel this long B2B thing or you're not uh maybe it's not even a tool you sell maybe stuff you need something though you need an Act take this is why e-commerce is crushing uh all of these review sites and why content sites uh are missing out essentially the part of the reason so that's and then you also said distributional semantics and I wanted to make sure we touched

on that distribution being being kind of just like word usage and grammar usage and just kind of like how are we actually putting a we'll call it content content and all of the intricacies of content and you're talking about Distributing it on specifically just on a page you also mentioned in API Le the site embeddings so in my terminology I actually call it site and site white engrams so there are some certain distributional phrases that should be always appearing together site wide segment wide and Page wide if you're able to distribute the things without creating

giberish content by creating necessity behind them naturally then yes you will be relevant to the right section of the web and the index as well and the distributional semantics is about actually reflecting the context without creating cost because when you look at the ranking algorithms they mainly have two steps one is actually about quantities how many vers appear together with how many different vers and checking these statistics are way much faster and way much easier and this will the first step of the ranking they won't be checking everything that you say they won't be processing

every text that you are actually writing because the the specific algorithms the understanding related algorithms they will be triggered maybe six months later and this is the reason that many websites which publish lots of documents initially they rank higher but then they start drop because the search engine realizes and process the text and it doesn't work to rank actually but from distributional semantics point of view from quantitive analysis point of view it makes sense to rank initially so that's why I usually use distributional semantics for higher initial rankings when it comes to sential semantics which

means semantics between sentences declarations propositions is for the second section of the ranking which is R ranking if you have a good initial ranking your ranking score will probably will will be also uh very much better too I didn't put these things into the course since they are really Advanced but I have written some of them in the case studies y for ranking purposes and this so this uh to tie it to the Google Patent leak the reranking and initial ranking the uh what is it called there's like a it has a sitewide score so

to the best of my knowledge you're getting kind of like an average score that's that's kind of spr if there's a deviation yeah a new page comes out and you deviate from that then that's when uh things kind of go poorly for you so you need to it kind of changed my perspective of how I'm going to approach my SEO I can't push out well I can still push out things that are incomplete I cannot push out things that aren't at least a b like if all my content is an A+ I'm not going to

publish things that are a b I'll just wait until I can get it or a c sorry I'm going to wait until it can reach a certain threshold and you kind of just register it in your to tell you this is an A or a B it's just like okay do you have images uh are you think of the principles of I wrote a LinkedIn post about this but I said that uh Google's basically just applying educational uh theor applying that to how it's uh doing machine learning how does a human learn best well that's

also how uh algorithms happen to so having a lot of examples uh Real World experience being multiple context you know like this is how a human learns so content doing that if it's not it could be written text out there but if you don't have images and examples a a perspective maybe in my opinion actually we talk about the E rule sometimes when I check the websites for their let's say algorithmic path I also use quantitative analysises for instance how many pages have a number how many pages have a percentage how many numbers how many

pages actually have how many measurement units whether not whether kilometer whether something else how many pages actually have a research citation plus how many pages have the Unique Images the images that actually start to appear only in your website if you don't have any information Beyond common sense for instance go to C gbt and tell C gbt that do not give any information Beyond common sense but act like an expert you will see that it will create lots of fluff like it doesn't give you an answer it doesn't give you the number it doesn't give

you any research about anything but still it it uses all the relevant phrases it creates all the proper actually embeddings still but there is no answer that's why the search agents sometimes they actually do this quantitive analysises like do you have the number please in the first sentence or do you have the date because if there is a query and if that query is processed with the interrogative term then you will need to have the time measurement unit like in the top of the everything it will need to be at the main context if you

don't have it clearly as it should be then you won't be you won't be evaluated as a candidate as it should be that's one of the things that people should be considering always yeah I actually even I only published one Public Library just one time I called it Ser beat it it was created actually for just tracking the Ser Moment by Moment Like milliseconds and then turning it into a video to show that actually rankings are always fluid but there is always ranges between them and we created these videos and that uh that GitHub Library

it also has these tools it directly craws or secretes entire site and it actually checks how many times you have numbers percentages dates researches or what type of entities attributes with what order and you should also be that templated if you are too templated it means that you don't have the human effort and the content is too mechanic which is also not good you should also show sometimes these let's say changing patterns so that actually it shouldn't be like that much mechanical so I'm trying to delete or remove any machine signature that I can remove

and I try to keep it always unique from my competitors because if you're able to give the first time information it's always helpful for the long term let's say like this if you go to the Google and search for I I will just give a random example let's say Alternatives of time doctor this Google director will be giving you some entities as s and these entities some of them are not mentioned in the first 10 results they find other tools from let's say the last two anti- ranking documents and they still added to do that

entity list that they are generating for instance so in this case if you are the First Source that mentioned that entity for the first time is an advantage for you because they listen even the last ranking source and change what they are serving at the top which means that actually if you are able to play with the memory of the search engine if they if you are able to shape their knowledge graph and the connections and the definitions then they will list them to you actually as the authority which is the purpose like author to

define the things and Associate the things basically you can actually change even the contextual borders between the queries and this is what actually many high level Authority sites are doing even if they don't notice so I I wish I could even dig into to what you just talked about one of my the one of the most interesting that I think you've talked about and you have a case study for is changing contextual borders and changing context that's G to get down too much of a rabbit hole and I still have things I want to I

want to go over if we have time I want to Circle back on that I want to show you something I did uh for the embeddings once I had once I had uh the Google leak and I published on search engine land I tried to apply what I learned from the Google leak just to see like okay if Google beddings are actually used by Google now then uh let's use an embedding tool to figure out um where are content is so basically what I'm doing now is I try to take an entire blog uh you

can do this by category you can do it by um you can do it by the entire site but you want to look at the density of the Clusters here's like a competitor and this one is far more okay they have far denser uh amounts of content around like whatever the the topic could be it's really helpful though because a lot of people I find clients asking all the time why am I not ranking uh I have more backlinks well let's actually look at this it's helpful if you have a three-dimensional space where you can

say hey here instead of just a Google sheet let's let's look at the visual here they have I mean dense blue connecting like thoroughly for like a while while you only have you know this tiny little island over here and you want to rank for best credit card or best uh dog food you're not going to get that if if you don't have this density here and then it helps in another way too cuz sometimes if the bubbles are too much if they overlap too much I love this because that means you're likely going to

cannibalize it's too similar uh it's it you don't need to do this and you've talked about big media sites getting away with it but even then I A lot of times even if it's another context if the bubbles through an embedding sort of thing or are showing that it's like almost entirely overlapped you should probably seek to blend those there's I don't see a reason to keep them so I do that I look at specific keywords you can look at like the specific document scores of relevance um all these tools now are I really like

what AI has done where it's made the accessibility of these kinds of things you don't even need to know python there's all these tools uh out there so I'm looking at all sorts of stuff and I want to look at the distribution I want to see okay here we go here's the last piece I'll show you is I want to look at the relevance of uh let's say it's one specific document and I want to look at the scores of relevance now so now if it's closer to zero that's the more relevant it is so

this one site uh for chase points guy so this is like a nerd wallet sort of thing they have 13 pages that are under a02 that's pretty darn relevant like they have a ton of really relevant content around Chase Sapphire's credit card well this other competitor only has one so to me that's like this is exactly giving numbers using embeddings this is if Google's using embeddings let's use an embedding tool and let's try to while we're not exactly applying it the same way that Google is this should get you a little bit I don't know

if you do something like this or if you disagree with how I've applied it but I'm trying to do this more we have similar stuff because like even 3 years ago uh I have written some Python scripts I never published these things actually out of two reasons first of all the industry comes like five years behind so they won't be able to read even so I didn't but basically what you shown there I was creating information graph for instance how many times this entity appears in entire document Network and what are the predicates that come

after that and what are the other objects that are coming after that there is a concept actually in my methodology it's called Str strongly connected component it's also a natural language processing concept which means if I'm connecting this entity to here the the connection should be repeated back as well but if to be able to repeat it back you will need to open another page for the entity and usually I was using certain type of python secrets to check these things quickly and then I also have created a relevance calculation imagine that while you are

typing the sentence there is the query at and the relevance possible matching the embedding sometimes for instance this is your embedding but the document context is like this and this is their embeding eding for the same context and it changes its shape a little bit like that because technically embeddings are working based on the similarity it's very hard to actually have two different spars and comparing them to each other it will be costly but if you can create some uh visual Clarity for that people would like it to understand the only problem there would be

is they shouldn't aim to imitate their competitor the purpose here is not just imitating them go going Beyond them actually because if you have higher relevance higher responsiveness and higher pay rank basically you will be winning at the end of the day yeah that with me it's more just I use this to the embeddings to get more budget so a lot of times I think seos don't have enough of a tool set in their Arsenal to be able to actually get what they need and they don't have the ability to to communicate it so one

of the things that I've doing since really Stephen Kang was the first person from SEO signals lab he's the first person that really brought me under his wing to teach me uh about this mindset and ever since then it's just been it's helped immensely for talking to CEOs for getting business owners to hop on board to get uh to get investment in areas or Arenas where people have struggled in the past to get for SEO how do you get that well you got to paint a picture they're businessmen uh so it's like all right let's

look at the analyze uh you got to analyze the Ser you got to look at your competitors and it's about backlinks it's about uh how many pages exist what's the uh how many pages do they create each month on average how many links uh are they creating on average what's the NLP relevance of those links so you can analyze with natural language processing now that so there's all sorts of things you can add and layer and then you just apply some like here's our cost to attain that then now you have projections on all right

well it's going to cost us this amount of money that by 12 months 18 months 24 months when do you want to win and stone there's one more thing actually that you do there you also check the uh relevance to the query but also there might be multiple pages that are relevant to the same query it doesn't mean that they will always actually be cannibalizing with each other they can also support each other in my methodology I didn't publish that but it will be published with a book I didn't name it but I call it

directly relevance attribution relevance of a page to a query can be attributed to the another page not just through the ACT internal links but also through their similarity as well even if they rank for different versions or different connections of the same context or the same entity as well so sometimes having more pages about a single entity it will be helpful and they don't have to cannibalize with each other if you know how to organize them properly soit relevance between them will always be helpful maybe you can also uh correlate the craw craw requests too

because if you have more craw hits from the search engine while publishing more documents or updating these documents is also a positive signal you can also check indexing delay for instance the changes that you do if they are being indexed like let's say I don't know 10 minutes later it's a good signal as well in strike that money you mentioned that website earlier we have just 400 pages on that website and the website has been cwed like 40,000 times a day and 99% of the craw hits are going to the HTML it means that you

are in the indexing Tire One which means Google is caring about your site but if you have let's say 1 million Pages index but Google craws you just 20,000 times a day it means that you don't have that much prominence and probably you will see lots of stale data in your search console even if you fix your website they won't realize it because you are not pyritized because you are not worth the cost so how would someone find that uh if if uh someone wants to start measuring C Enterprise tool anything actually if it is

a simple WordPress site just go to the your C panel to to there go to the uh web server I believe access you will get the log files then actually you can directly use a p simple python SCP to just analyze it and you should do also DNS reverse proxy but let's keep it simple just check what type of Google B is coming to your site with what frequency also check your response heers for these HS if you have a referral response heater check actually what URLs are used for finding new other URLs which means

you can actually optimize your internal links better for this because if the website is in a negative ranking State the hardest thing is showing more quality documents by starting from homepage because initially Google won't list them to you even if you link your more and New Quality Pages they won't be crawling it initially they will be crawling it after certain amount of time and you can always observe this so it will be one of the good ways of checking whether Google is listening to you or not so you're right you're right on with this the

uh if I send two backlinks to a page my way um getting Google to care about the page again so that seems to be like as long as I can send two I can do another crawl I can have it I believe there is no tool for this yet but you can also use Google search console API with the UR inspection methods and you can check the referal URL and for instance whenever whenever I was doing shares on Tik Tok and YouTube shorts we were increasing the C studs C requests and we were seeing also

the these two social media Platforms in the referral URLs which means actually Google was following these URLs and coming back to our website it was increasing craw requests the important thing here is that if you stop sharing your site on these social media platforms will GL still continue to crawl higher amounts or in the higher rate if they continue in the higher rates it means you have taken the attention of the algorithm and they start to process your content it is important because as I said there is an initial ranking and R ranking and if

you have more more craw starts you will get these processes faster and if you don't have more craw requests basically it will take longer time until they get your content process it serve it or associate with other sites you should always be prioritized and you will even see that your features in P people also ask questions knowledge panel appearances are correlated with your CW requests as well I agree and I'm me and a buddy are calling it brand optimization so we think that like SEO is not just uh I don't even think SEO is the

right term it's going to be the term that everyone uses but like brand optimization web is just all you're doing is you're optimizing how the brand is found on the web and if Google is now wanting as you said you need to Define your brand uh it needs to be about something you need traffic uh a normal brand is going to have traffic and I believe that traffic distribution is important too do there's so many patents on social media the applications are different but Google is looking at social media and if you try to think

like an engineer that's trying to beat out all these U black hat well if it's just links it used to be so easy to be black hat you could just do links great I'm just going to do that I'm going to do iframe loops and do links and like uh just whatever there's all sorts of garbage you can do but if Google can spread that out and say now uh we want brand presence on social media what how many followers do they have they don't they could be fake followers how many uh mentions on the

web period so like Co citation cooccurrence there's uh there's all sorts of different things now and there's I think multimedia are they showing up search engine are they showing up on the video search engine um all of that stuff matter yeah you're absolutely right actually since the 2019 I I am defending the idea of having a YouTube channel for instance is helping for your website to rank higher as well and also if you are able to have more popularity through these social media platforms and for instance in my own first onc case study I was

comparing how many times I am being mentioned on Facebook and how many times my computers are mentioned whether I have a hashtag whether they have a hashtag for their brand name or not if you are being mentioned and if you have more index pages from Facebook for your own name it will also be helpful for your pro proving your prominence and noticeability I was creating these kpis and there was a tool I don't remember like rival side or something I don't remember exactly but rival IQ I guess it was a very old tool that I

was using sometimes and I was actually creating these reports and showing to the CEO we should keepit these numbers to create a meaningful difference and we were able to bring that Finance website to the top again and still today it is the biggest Finance website in Turkey for instance they are reaching out to like 30 million clicks amount yeah it's a huge huge site it's bigger than many banks today and that logic actually comes from there when it comes to LinkedIn for instance I was checking the Sur features and the patterns there there is even

P there are even patterns from Google for influencer score they are even comparing influencers to each other even in the Google rater quality guidelines they directly write their that if there is no thumbs up if there are no an words for instance and if the threat is old it's a non-quality threat from Reddit and they skip that subreddit for instance as non-quality but they say that if the threat is new it's okay to not have any likes or these type of stuff and they use it for training them we were also using the same structure

for instance I we were organizing all the employees to create the bus in the on the LinkedIn and we were indexing all these documents from LinkedIn and linking and mentioning ourselves one more time all the comments all the social media let's say natural look it was being created by multiple people as a culture I remember that I was even taking birth research paper from 2019 19 and I was Distributing to the the developers to the CEO to the COO CPO to train entire company because SEO should be done with Brands as a brand to be

honest if you are just as I say a wall site if your website is like a wall I look the wall wall looks at me there is no Beyond interaction is it won't be working that well at the end yeah I complet you you uh agree with that is piece is so important and the part that I haven't tested yet and I'm kind of scared to do it the just because it's not of a a leap of effort to do it the right way out of this I mean you could do like Mechanical Turk or

whatever you could do microw workers Google doesn't have access as far as we know to the actual data um that like the quality data of the the likes and stuff so you can manipulate that obviously we keep finding out that all of these platforms have back doors and share data and all sorts of stuff so like who knows if that's true but uh I do know that you'll if someone want you want to experiment you can torch the actual platform for yourself because uh fake followers all that stuff they the platforms know and you if

you ever want to actually use that platform yeah the the good thing is that also you mentioned that the page strength doesn't have to come just from through the links it can be stretched to different platforms different angles like or linkless mentions Etc the the good point there is that for instance in the casino Niche there are some websites and they pretend like the official website of some really alterative organizations and they use Wikipedia for naming themselves like that and the Google Unfortunately they use Wikipedia directly for their shaping their own Knowledge Graph and whenever

we actually use the Wikipedia for showing that this website is the official side of this Global institution appar directly the website is able to rank actually in the casino Niche for instance this is one of the things that are that is already ranking ranking and working there and again as long as you don't fix your internal factors as it should be the external factors won't won't be helpful that much but if your internal factors as it should be whether it is about size structure or semantics you won't need that much external validation too Google already

will like what you do anyway and with just a few tricks like this like imitating an official institution as an official site and with some let's say good content there you can directly be a direct competitor for many let's say let's say 20 years of websites or the businesses out there the funny thing is one of my actually dream jokes for Google was actually creating a fake country in Google Sur LLY with actually Wikipedia fake country fake president fake history I couldn't do it due to the time constraints but I believe Google can buy it

if you create a Wikipedia page uh directly they can even actually believe in United United Nations official site or whatever I sure that you can actually do that too so and they would also rank the websites for that because I was planning to publish all the fake news by creating friends or all of them so they actually go for that that's insane I please have enough time to do that I want to see hope so so I have with the brand thing brought up something where I think I'm doing this with my schema I wanted

to show you and see what you thought but you can obviously claim and try to make uh you can try to make some claims right about uh who you are and and tie tie your brand to to different things or tie your website so my this site's not actually doing anything right like uh we don't sell anything but I wanted to at least have something where I could declare and kind of convince Google that I have an offering so this is what I did for the offering is uh let's do website portal value specification I

guess where where is this hold up maybe it is in the uh production mode geez my mouse is dying over here here why is my schema off I oh no did I remove my schema that's GNA be bad they no here it is here it is great okay so the same as the nose about things so I like tying things to Wikipedia that you can get more advanced so we have some schema where we put it in the shadow Dom and then um we you're that way you can't using variables and you can't actually reverse

engineer that but on the homepage we have this stuff that ties it but the service thing I wanted to show you um has offer catalog this was my thing of like I want to try to once again this is not my full-time thing I I spend a couple hours here and there I I was trying to figure out well I I agree with Cory I have the same philosophy of you need to H be something like what are you offering besides just content well I have it an offer and I'm basically saying educational materials I

have a cocktail creation tool I'm declaring that uh via schema I have uh a whiskey finder tool declaring that as an offer and I have a distiller database so these are my sort of like items offered that I was trying to get something of what it's not an actual offering but to Google it makes it seem like it yeah still actually for these content size as I say if you also make people login for instance register log to be able to use the tool or to use the tool more frequently for instance and if you're

able to turn these people into a community for sharing recipes or their opinions it will be having actually Beyond just a wall side for instance it will be having some functions that's why for any website whether it's an just affiliate or media site I started to addit all these functions and functionalities like a business as much as possible I also observed that they are ranking directly the staff or the employees from LinkedIn so that's why I directly add the human beings behind the website through different platforms and the signals as well so this is actually

one of the good thinking there and it would be helpful to maybe mention sometimes a dollar sign for instance you can also add a premium version of this tool even if it doesn't exist but still you can it there another thing that I do is changing the layout I use e-commerce layout for instance for many comparison sites for instance I am adding let's say every cocktail like I am selling it but I don't but there are cocktail cards for instance I changed the design and the layout maybe you already have it for instance I just

added uh this one thank you so I just added the uh I have to many I think over here right now I'm experimenting with I kind of put all of them on the sidebar and uh the idea is all I have is I wanted to make it where it's accessible to to like do whatever you want to do so I have anything where I just want people to visit more pages so I have that on the side I've got my table of contents and then um what's the other piece I have to this uh I

have audio uh try to create Unique Images try to put the text in it uh the other thing that I've been trying to do is emulate Wikipedia so like this uh hover over get the internal link thing so I like it because it doesn't actually break the context directly because you are using a different HTML uh element there so the text that is existing in the tool tip won't be interacting the closeness between first and the second sentence so it's a good structure there okay awesome yeah so I have that uh something that I realized

here so I went to Google Trends uh to figure out which uh languages I should create for my site first I wanted to see where whiskey was the most popular I created too many and this actually goes into what you had talked about earlier with uh indexability crawlability like how often are you being crawled if you create a ton of languages then all of a sudden you've just like exponentially increase the size of your site and now the ratio and like kind of like well if I now have 100,000 pages and I'm only crawled at

this frequency my my like score or Google's understanding of me it it just goes down so I had to delete five languages and massive indexation boost all of a sudden everything was getting crawled more so the the one tip I was going to share with people is to apply that just make sure that don't go ham with languages half of my half of my searches are in other languages but you don't want to go too hard start start small make sure indexation constantly improving and then like expand your your content but and so any any

tips for like uh how would you handle this because I have all my articles here I've got the the first thing is that about how many links you have per page because the amount of the internal links that you have it might be a little bit too much second thing is that I wouldn't repeat the links in the main content also in the sidebar I would mark them a little bit differently like maybe you can just directly go send the user to the specific paragraph or somewhere but usually uh that sidebar in the semantic HTML

it should be in the aside tag because it's not directly uh inside the main content but most of the links are there and it is always visible in the screen so usually I try to put most of the weight to the main content and I try to use actually less or fewer amount of links when it is especially necessary as much as possible another part is that when you say how does bourbon compare to the other whiskies you say when you say the other whiskies it will be helpful to also mention the attribute explicitly like

type for instance other types of whiskies or other whiskey types for instance and you are mentioning two different whiskies there Scotch whiskey and the Irish whiskey so I will try to link actually first if you have something like that in your topical map I don't know the queries but bourbon versus whiskey for instance first I would link there from there I would be linking to The Scorch and the Irish versions for instance rather than directly going to the Irish and the uh Scotch I'm talking about the main content there and overall the structure uh the

layout is really good I guess the name of this layout is Holy Grail they call it holy grail layout because it has three different components at at least desktop version and the images uh could you come a bit more button you have your brand logo in the image which is good you have two main entities and you directly write the text uh the the thing is the inline images that I call them it's good uh the only thing is there you might try to put the entities into the more Central because Google will be cropping

this image and they will try to show it into the ser cipet and usually if the center of the image is not convenient for that they might skip that image M that's good you have the entity directly on the center it will be helpful for that as well and the you start the question of the what is bourbon so it's not a bad thing to ask to be honest but if you can also mention maybe some drink related things it might be helpful too because some of the context there even if is clear for humans

the search engine will be looking at to the day actually index structures and they might find place names for bourbon football teams for bourbon or some other things as well so as usually for the H1 I try to keep it a little longer with more contextual phrases or annotations uh in this case oh yeah like the colon and then uh try to specify yeah that is one thing I can definitely do is to the Nutritional part I didn't check the Ser of course I don't know although I have ranked a website for cocktails earlier at

least in my uh substructure I was also using certain type of tables with directly the nutritions for instance when you say the nut nutrition the names of these nutritions should be existing in the H1 area you have some of them all directly there but I would put them earlier if possible with the most important attributes or nutrients in this case and it will be also helpful to follow a sub structure in the attribute payers let's say for three main nutrients then one main benefit then one main risk then let's say the optimum frequency for adults

adults with pregnancy or some other but if if you have a structure to follow it will be helpful for you to write faster and to not be so templated to decrease the amount of the machine signal you can sometimes change the place of these patterns first you can go with the pregnant adults then you can go for someone someone else for instance let's say the older people Senor people or people with certain type of uh diseases or the risks and the conditions but overall the structure is uh really good I really like it especially your

design is unique you also have the audio content which is also really good too uh Google will also be taking that into the consideration because you have different type of formats of the same content directly and you can also turn this article into a video and you can even actually try to rank also on YouTube uh too like let's say the top five bourbon brands top five bourbon I don't know uh manufacturers whatever you want directly because YouTube is also about virality so so it should create curiosity and critic behaviors let me uh show you

this I'm working on this inide of content sprout right now and uh I have the video piece because I I I agree like the put it into video the other thing is like making images in the dimensions that work for Pinterest so like you might as well get some try to get Pinterest traffic at the same time if you're already going to be creating content uh let's see what this I will definitely use actually Pinterest uh but the main thing there is if you are taking traffic from the Pinterest it should also prove that there

are there is a community behind it this is really good by the way uh I'm not sure how did you Des this what here we go there we go hit play so yeah here's the video this is just first first uh attempt we're trying to just like how do I convert uh from blog content distill it into like prompts that can then create something so we're obviously trying a lot of Animation here and and whatnot but it's got the voice it's talking about a lot of this stuff it gets a little bit weird but yeah

that's the idea is you might as well put this out right yeah it's completely okay and completely good the the only thing there is I also know a few let's say YouTube patterns there is something that they actually call frame based uh let me just try remember temporal local actions and the frame based uh flow which means that for every frame of the video they actually stop it then they skip let's say 5,000 frames they get another frame from there and they try to understand the connection or the flow between these frames if some of

the frames have broken objects or fluid objects let's say due to the AI it would be a clear signal for them for a few things uh to label let's say but overall this is very good for a business without a studio basically yeah that's the thing is so many don't have Studios yeah and you don't have to like the only time the frame is broken is when you try to do really complex things the zoom in sort of things you can create images and not have like all of the the movement so if there is

no actually a perfect story I can tell it's really nice well done thanks yeah that was the uh the idea for that one was hey what try to turn this into a video cuz you might as well yeah but there is one thing when you think Andrew because the SEO gets harder entry cost is going higher and many agencies don't have these standard operations or standard Services the clients also don't know what to demand what to audit as well so that's why I always say the since SEO is not regulated and trained or taught in

universities it gets always harder to define the scope of the work or necessary steps you know that's why I believe we need some standardization so that everyone can be happy you know the Consultants they is first you need to prove that it is necessary then you need to train the client then you have to prepare all the Necessities because no one did it earlier so you are the first one who is doing that yeah that's true yeah it's like always exploring new words uh with your mind and it's it's it's not a job for everyone

I can tell it it definitely isn't I I have a lot of fun with it it's uh I wish I had more time to to dedicate to to it but my time's kind of split up I had two questions I want to ask because I know for my group this is actually I think and based on me interacting in your group I can see that there's a gap for people's understanding so I wanted to fill the Gap with this and and I'll post uh the answer on YouTube shorts or something but how would you apply

that the topical Authority strategy and tactics to a local business uh so this local business is only going to be serving uh we'll say let's use a dentist because that typically you have about a 5 Mile sir about the local section I believe I published it in a few case studies but I didn't put it into the course because when we have the topical Authority as an entity you also have the local entities and you can be an authority about a locality as well and we directly call it actually local Authority or local penetration of

that specific brand the local local penetration is like the concept from a patent I just integrated into my methodology and to see a live example you can directly check actually I believe the website name was rental center Creed the owner I believe the Harry Anapolis he is directly in our community and it was a local SEO project I didn't uh rental center rental center create it should be I am not active for the project over 15 months so I don't know how is it is doing but it was doing good when I left it but

it is actually one of the good example local SEO businesses because it's a rental car business just for crit and it puts us into the different type of situation because I have to be an authority for service which is car rental then also I need to be an authority for the location in the course too I explained this a little bit because in my 2020 Zan speech it should be there was an example topical map that I have used for four different items one was for crit one was for Iceland one was for St Martin

there was one more ident I don't remember and I was using a very similar structure because Iceland website was about tour I mean ice related tours and we were selling tours their crit website was about actually just the car rental the St Martin website was about actually hotels or hotel booking or the beaches or reservations in restaurants the fourth one was slightly different but it was also a very small island like marus or somewhere but the main thing here is that I always use the same structure whenever I have an island for instance I directly

go for the entities of that Island according to my business model if I a tour company I go for mountains or let's say the Iceland related uh geographical situations but if I'm a car rental business first I go for the cars itself how to rent this specific car especially in creete then what you'll be doing for after the car rental for instance I rank for a specific type of beach for its quality for its review then at the top I always have a CTA rent card for going to this beach if I have I'm ranking

for all the airports all the beaches all the restaurants all the nightclubs hotels or even mosques or churches whatever you have in the crit you will always be ranking for anything in that location and you'll be always inserting the car renting context the thing here is that when someone searches for a beach club car renting is not the context and that's why I have that contextual Vector which means order of heatings most of the heatings most of the document will be just about that Beach Club I will just be inserting the car rental so deloted

it won't be changing your relevance it won't be preventing you from ranking for that query and I am doing it with a CTA I am ranking for the local that local entity from that crit and then I am actually inserting the car rental and there are also some another section of the topical map we don't have the creit but we have the card Brands we directly be an alternative for the brands and the models of the cars then we add the predicate rent then we link back to the actual rent context so you are taking

auor from the cars and the location and then you always actually merge it at the middle which is the car rental in Creed you directly create two different segments it goes also the same for the dentist as well you first will need to rank for that specific location you can use actually again you will need to find the attributes for your business model it might be demographics it might be if you are a dentist it might be about the dental problems of that specific state or whatever for instance dental insurance it might be for instance

anything with the dent dentist yeah all sorts of stuff you will also need to go for beyond the location and let's say you are a cosmetic dentistry or I guess they call it Smile Design or whatever and then you will need to actually rank for all the materials the procedures the the equipments Etc and you will always need to link back to your local section flow the alter back to the local area the the main thing here is that if you are an dentist from Alabama you don't need that much a big topical map with

really good amount of details in the semantic content Network because Alabama is not that much hard to rank in but if you're a dentist in the New York City then you will need really a good granular topical map with lots of different type of context there for probably mentioning the name will make some people angry about let's say Oscar VY for instance you can check that we are ranking with I don't know how many about 150 different type of optomet stores for different Australian locations for instance and we always have different stuff there website has

many flows uh and I hope we won't have need any censorship because whenever I mention a website name I am taking some risk of making some people angry and if it is a situation I am sorry Henry my old King but I hope it will be okay when you come to Turkey so basically you can always actually create two different topical map one one for location one for the industry that you are in and you will need to merge it the hard part might be finding most related attributes of the location because for Islands it's

very clear I use literally the same Dynamics for four different islands for four different business models it work really well because they are all Islands when it comes to do these more complicated Industries or occupations it might be a little bit harder to find these attributes because in Alabama you might not have that that much a think about uh Dental demographics usually for these situations I go one higher level over the Alabama you can have maybe North America if there is no query for it for instance you can go for direct United States of America

for example but you should find the queries that's one of the obligations you should follow the query because you will get historical data from the query if there is no query there is no index and you are forcing search engine to create a new index just for you so that's why I always tell a topical map is not a concept map you don't follow a regular dictionary directly you follow the queries you bind a query to a page based on a logic and that logic comes from again the query's nature okay so with the dentist

it seems easier with the island with car rental it's easy because you know Beach talk about a beach cuz you I already actually have some examples of cosmetic dentistry in Turkey for these type of projects but the main thing is that for instance in dentists at especially for cosmetic dentistry even if you are located in Turkey you are getting clients from Mexico from United States from UK and then you need to expand your topical map even further because you m process the locations that your your clients are in in this case we actually expand and

compare for instance UK Dental uh prices and turkey Dental prices then we also do it for individual ual cities first we rank for that individual City like let say Manchester Dental cosmetic dentistry and we directly rank with a website for Turkish dentist there for instance and we directly start communication with the client for a price point of view and we also offer Dental tourism which brings us to the subject of dental tourism again and it will going like this Dental tourism overall and dental tourism turkey Dental tourism Algeria why because Algeria is competing with turkey

so you will need to compare both of them to each other too according to your location and your users where they are how they are searching where they are searching from your local section of topical map might be also Diversified from Mexico to Algeria for instance so always there is a connection between them and again for other section we of course get all these things like veneers and you will get multiple things like what is veners then veners implants as a type of implant then also you will go get cost of veners then venur turkey

that turkey section always will be linked from other four or five other veners section then you will get a comparison veners versus zonum then zonum again implant Z zonum like say advantages benefits whatever then turkey and you will always need to connect from Turkey to the dental tourism turkey then Dental tourism then comparison between let's say UK Dental prices and turkey Dental prices this was the structure that I used mostly for instance for the dental tourism there I guess this give some idea of how to use it for that does give some idea the US

cities because the turkey is a famous spot for tourism for medical medical tourism but it does give me some idea where I think what people could do is possibly compare you know uh small town prices versus larger Town price maybe a state versus another state uh you could I think you could approach it in a a of ways I think the thing that I just want to make sure people don't fall into and this is what I used to do back in 2020 is uh alter your focus the site Focus too much by by creating

all this supporting content about cities so um I'll give you an example of like in the mortgage Niche uh I did this and it actually works fine because for mortgage I can rate the best restaurants I can B best parks I can rate all those different things talk about them because the context of a mortgage is I'm interested in living there and what are the components of living in an area you go to a park you have schools you have restaurants if someone's trying to to evaluate you know this action of I want a mortgage

that makes sense that's not the case I'm not talking about best restaurants I'm not I I can't connect it definitely so you should always stay on the subject and try to calculate the type and the amount of historical data that you are taking from that specific query for instance if you create a cont cont like let's say the let's say effect of white smile for instance for social communication or whatever the topic or the main context there is actually about social getting social rather than actually Dentistry so it will be that's why actually have a

core section in my topical map and outdoor section that's why I'm prioritizing them for instance what I mentioned just here it will be like way out because it's like getting social tanks to the teeth or Dentistry but if you're able to adjust your topical map according to your local competition as I say if you are in Alabama probably you won't need that much but if you're in New York City then you will need to go with let say way much more serious things there the same also goes for legal or low industry or the lows

and the lowers as well so get example cases or the some let's say different type of news context that you can integrate with the Evergreen content but the the the main thing is that that if it gets easier since everyone will be creating it it will also get harder too because you will need to find tiny points to create a difference but usually when you have too many competitors actually it's easier to also create a difference because most people won't be doing what you are doing anyway so after one or two updates you will be

one of the main players but if if you if everyone is so clear like Crystal Clear then it eventually again you will need to dip dive and find the teen Tire differences that's why actually what you did that embedding is nice because most of the time the clients they don't understand the difference between their content and other websites content they always tell that my content is better and the other one is not but when you show them these embeddings these Maps they start to get full picture from math point of view so that's why I

believe having that type of an angle will be helpful for these people in these conditions with like yeah the creating a topical map for this location and this topic is easy but if it is easy then it means that your map will need to be more detailed and it will need to be tailored way better yeah I like what you said about the uh you kind of Applied the Reas the reason behind why you want typically people uh care you're you're wanting to invest in Dental stuff for two reasons one there's health and two lifestyle

it's it's uh you want to be seen a certain way you want to you don't want to be insecure you want to maybe date people you want social situations there's all sorts of social situations of like if I have nice teeth then I'll feel better or whatever so I think that's no matter what the industry I think this is a copywriting principle too it's just you need to abstract think of the audience and apply the understanding of like why does this matter to them and why does that for instance I was I was creating a

few semantic content Network for the Forex for instance and I had a topic there like what are the best Forex Trading strategies for instance for Asia or Asian Traders and the owner was thinking that there is not that much difference between UK trading and the Asia trading then I actually I added that to the AI with a certain prompt it was able to give at least 49 reasons for having different strategies like because the time zone and the geography is different basically all the prices are affected from different stuff the volumes are different amount of

Traders are different and the AI is able to think technically it's not thinking but it's able to generate more tailored structures or tailored for what you need so use it yeah AI is amazing for that it's just because while uh oneclick AI Solutions uh can't cover everything by far it helps with some things AI just because it can't do one click AI mixed with human brain is awesome respect another example for instance I was creating a brief for face I believe yeah the face washing routine so there was there were two heatings there one of

them was or face cleaning routine or something like that one question was about actually uh for the morning routine the other one was for the night routine and again the writer was telling that there is no difference but when I go to the AI with especially my agents that I created for the community AI was telling that in the morning you are coming from a different condition and in the night you are actually cleaning all the dirt from outside in the morning you are cleaning all the oil from the sleep for instance and it requires

actually different steps and different materials to be used in and that's why I created these agents and I I started to share it with the community some of the members already got the access and the the 2.0 modu in the course is mostly about the agents that we should be using for the semantics and I believe opening it to the everyone uh just I need a little bit more time for tailoring some of them but there will be like probably four agents that I will be sharing for semantics so basically just use it to get

your new ideas for from it doesn't use it doesn't use any actually external API it's directly on the GPT as an agent and there is actually some example outputs I am giving then I'm giving some constraints and limitations and always on instructions I try to keep it simple with simple uh rules probably I will be creating a video series for them but it's mostly for the community private Community we also have some public members who use uses them currently as well and we are not against it awesome well I have one more question for you

and then we have to uh to to end this because it's we we're already almost at two hours I for another two hours I'm pretty sure so the other PE uh the other group in my Comm so we have business owners that are like local business owners and then we have the agencies that actually want to rank for their own use SEO to rank for their own uh I guess bring in clients through SEO using their agency website and use your methodologies for as an agency for agency xyz.com they target because they could start with

they could do a glossery of like all of the SEO terms they could do the industry the thing that I think is really hard if you could address it too is the connect try SEO in SEO and like that's not a um so I I would love if you would address that too yes is exactly what you say they just put two ver together yeah it's not a thing yeah especially rush I see it a lot like SEO tool for let's say I don't know the bakery or wedding yeah yeah they're just going ham right

now I'm like this is not and all the time they're like can I do this I'm like the tools designed around unpacking an entity and if if you bring these together and they have no connection yeah definitely the from point of the search engine if the search engine realizes that there are one 1,000 documents with the same title attack they will behave like there is the query and they will start the index and ranking them like that and right now all the agencies since they create these things they actually compete with each other for themselves

to be honest mostly and most of the them don't know to search for it to be honest that much but basically uh if you're an agency and if you want to use the SEO the first thing is that I believe in my opinion if you use SEO for getting SEO clients you will get very very cheap clients I must tell that the conversion won't work for it and that's why most of the time the SEO content is perceived as free content or free school basically so as an agency you might not get actually what you

are looking for personally this is my opinion and if but still if you really want to have a really huge topical map content Network and a huge traffic from the SEO type of let's say the phrases I will try to choose the most actually conversion value queries first and I will try to put them into to the my core section of topical map and most of the time these phrases they don't have to mention even the phrase SEO it might be directly like marketing agency or just marketing consultant because people even don't know whether SEO

exists they just search these things like merched together SEO marketer marketing web developer or whatever so that's why I will try to rank for anything that SEO is touching as you have shown just that video to be honest but when you do that you want to follow the queries if you have anything with with let's say the web development in this case you don't have to process every programming languages to be honest but at least you can create a few things like web development agency or web development services like front end back end and from

the bottom of that content you can connect it back to the SEO one more time when it comes to the SEO you can have the main fundamental verticals of the SEO in that topical map but I would I wouldn't open these different pages for every occupation unless there is search demand if people are searching for for it for some certain regions I would actually open it because if there is a search demand the search engine will per it from Authority point of view as well but if there is no search demand I wouldn't open it

at all but probably you will be having just five or six pages that are vertic crate from conversion point of view and their geography is important for instance if you look for conversion value the the country is matter if you go for Germany and like's say the New York and some other regions you will get higher let's say pay rate so that's why actually adjusting your topical map for these regions then Distributing to the concepts around that will be actually very much more helpful and if you want to be an alter for the subject of

SEO yeah you will need to process basically everything by starting from 1999 because the topic starts from there the history of the topic in the query logs it matters you will need to process the giber score you will need to process every Google update like pigon update Winston update from 2009 so you want to go for historical to topics from the past and back yeah and you will need to process all these historical topics and you want to connect it to the latest let's say Evergreen subjects as well and you will process also anything about

Google it's not just se2 like why it is called Google what is Google metrics for instance which is highly related to actually also the SEO in this case as well so you want to be an authority for Google you want to be notifed for SEO and you want to process other segments Rel to SEO web development marketing and other sections so it requires a really huge website to be honest and in this case if you don't have enough level of budget try to focus on this high level of conversion value uh let's say pages and

try to be closer or around them so if you rank a top for SEO Agency for instance in Germany it it is true that still you will get lots of leads but most of the leads again the average value for for per lead won't be that high unfortunately because I believe there is a logic behind SEO people it like free traffic and usually uh lowbudget businesses search for free traffic and this creates a constraint or it decreases the value per lead so that's why I will create that topical map in a strategic way for high

value clients or high value leads I wouldn't try to go for every city every occupation every query I will try to rank for suo subjects and flow my alterity for only these high value conversion Pages as much as possible if I have endless amount of budget I will process everything but everything of course but since I won't be having it I will need a prioritization for lead generation so does that mean uh when you say process things like uh really broad not commercial why much more quite much more grer because these things are already processed

on the web so if I am bringing a new website I go beyond that in this case web CER is one of them but also web parser is also one of them too if I have the parser I need browser if I have the browser then I will need to explain V8 engine which is existing in the Chrome browser then I will to process every browser if I have every browser from there I will need to go for web accessibility and cross browser checks for instance audits you want to go way more let's say broader

because there are three principles you will go broader you will go deeper you will go faster if you can't go broader then you will need to go deeper in this case with every subject that you have so that's why if you're able to have all of them if you can create a broader site with deeper angles and deeper connections as you have shown that embedding intensity for instance you can have more than more triples with higher accuracy if you publish it also faster then you are implementing both all the principles that you can Implement then

you will definitely be successful but usually projects lack at least one of them if you can't go faster then you want to go actually deeper and wider for instance in the topics so having only web CER won't work work there it is already processed there are at least maybe 15,000 websites like that so I need to go more unique and I need to go deeper for that in this case that makes sense so that's it's very hard I think to make SEO work for bringing in leads I that's what my start was literally ranking for

my city uh City SEO and I would only get even with 800 search volume a month and I was ranked number one on I experienced the same thing as I said your business model matters for your topical map if I would like to get all these SEO traffic I will create a sus not an agency I will create a sus and I will try to convert most of the Consultants to the SS users most of the businesses to the clients so if you have both of these angles for such a huge topical map you will

actually convert very way way much more people and I will keep the sauce cheap as much as possible because SEO queries are really popular and I will try to keep it let's say very automated because most seos won't be going that deep so if if it is able to suggest let's say 60 suggestions with just one click if they pay let's say $10 per month I will keep it actually like again as a winning so also it will be helpful for you because it you would have an SS angle so you because you're an agency

you're a sus basically it's not a Content site anymore so you will have even more advantages I when it comes to se I don't mention that much a tool name or something but there are some s websites that are that is doing that already they try to rank for everything about SEO Concepts and they try to always convert so most of the time the SEO subjects uh rather than the SEO clients it is for SEO Consultants to sell a kinds of sauce for them but if you have both of them it will be even better

okay I'll try to man it's so hard to to distill into something for people that's like a basically don't invest too heavily into this unless really you think like that if you go to the Google Trends create an alert for the SEO or go direct yeah that's a good one and you will get lots of cheat backlinks there you will because I'm getting always daily mails for the SEO from the Google Alerts and I always check what type of links SEO agencies are actually buying and I just check actually what they are publishing just for

fun and you will see that actually it's not good at all and you will see that that industry is very active too so it should be worth that that's why I suggest actually having sauce together with agency so you can convert everyone but if it is just agency I will go specific and small and I will focus on actually let's say having unique success stories and social media marketing or some other angles there to be honest yeah that makes total sense uh all right I have connect with you so they they can always actually find

me through any platform to be honest I don't check any DM anymore it's not possible for my biological limitations but you can always join to the holistic SEO communities on Facebook on Reddit on telegram Discord or LinkedIn as well you are always welcome to join to the topical Authority course or Academy and the private Community as well we will be happy to publish your success story right now we have 2002 228 success sh sh in the community in the last 16 months and this is just the amount of people who shared it there are also

others who didn't and also we will be doing some masterminds in Kushi and conferences in Istanbul I hope we can also meet in person with you as well Andrew love to forward I know that you are a father but I hope you will be able to travel so far yeah we will be having even also a guest uh this for this Mastermind in September which is invite only from Spain from Malika Luis Salazar gerado he's also a good too and also I am thankful for anything that se industry has given to me and I am

looking for giving back and sharing very much better memories all together time I'm always down to chat with you man I will be always happy to chat with you now actually I will go to the Ephesus with my family to the ancient city I can tell I will send you the pictures from there once I am there