How to Be a Real Entrepreneur

if you're listening to this podcast it means you're hungry hungry for change hungry for growth and ready to have a major breakthrough in your business as a partner or founder in more than a dozen businesses that do more than five billion dollars in revenue each year Tony Robbins has learned from the best in the world the Steve Wynn's Marc Benioff and Peter goobers what it takes to be successful whether you've been in business for decades or are just getting started it's important to get help from someone who's been there someone is going to coach you

through it that's why Tony is offering a free one-on-one business strategy session from one of his top business strategists a $600 value completely free no strings attached if you're listening right now go to Tony Robbins comm / CEO and sign up for a free session with a Tony Robbins trained business strategist who's helped business owners just like you to overcome their obstacles and set them on the path to success in a world where 96% of businesses fail after 10 years you must know how to anticipate and how to take advantage take advantage of this offer

today hey this is Tony Robbins listen thanks for joining me on this entrepreneurs podcast I'm really excited about this session and I'll tell you why first of all cause you're listening you know you're committed there's so many people who want to talk about they want to build a business but so few people do anything and you self-selected you chose the download of this podcast and you're actually listening right now you didn't just leave it there on your computer to think about sometime in the future so I know you're the kind of person that's here to

implement you're not gonna settle you're not gonna cut corners and because of that I really feel a kinship with you and I'm excited you're listening today because you're the real deal but even though you're the real deal I know you know that the vast majority people considering getting a business or even in business are wannabes they're out there everywhere you know you know the type they talk about the big business idea they have all the time in fact you know I often tell that business or as I work with that it's really important to understand

that most people over value their ideas in business and undervalue execution everybody's got the mixed multi-billion dollar idea but how many people actually execute and get it done so you hear people talking about their great business idea but they've been talking about it forever they've been talking about the idea for years and they're still action so where the rubber meets the road is in that action I always tell people if you really think about it execution Trump's knowledge every day of the week knowledge is not power knowledge is potential power so instead of dabbling well

you and I have to do is listen find distinctions and put them to work but you know most people aren't willing to do the hard work that's necessary to be a successful business owner today their lips keep moving but their feet are in the same damn place and so that's my challenge today so in the short time that I've got with you I mean my shortest live seminar is 50 hours to give you perspective and so you know we got a little less than an hour here but I'll tell you then those four days and

nights I do Total Immersion with people I do it because not because I want to speak for four days or in a business seminar five or six days but because because I think talk is cheap but what we do there is conditioned people to not only understand what they're doing but to give themself to actually follow through if you want to be a successful business owner you can't dabble you got to go out there year in a year out and do what nobody else does execute and look the failure to execute is the number one

reason why people fail in business and we know the results are unbelievably dismal for the first year of business fifty percent of people drop out of their business or fail in their business and that's in a world where it costs so little started business today it'd be easy to maintain yourself except they just don't have the skill or the psychology you know at five years eighty percent of businesses are gone and as I've shared before at the 10-year mark ninety-six percent of businesses have failed that means four percent make it four out of a hundred

survived and as I've said so many times that doesn't mean they're profitable that just means they're hanging in there so if you and I are gonna be masters of the game so to speak we gotta understand what does it take to master anything including business and there's three stages of mastery I teach these to people all the time and they're worth repeating because it's what I remind myself up if I'm not getting the result that I want you know very often people will learn something and they'll beat themselves up because they're saying well God I'm

not executing I'm not following through and they're mad at themselves well being mad at yourself isn't gonna change anything in fact being angry and mad very often will put you in a state we just get pissed off or frustrated you know you move on to something else to try to strap yourself or even if you try to execute from that negative state of mind your execution is terrible so I tell people think of it this way there's three levels of mastering anything the first level is really cognitive understanding in other words when you understand how

something works I always tell people understanding and four dollars will almost get you a Starbucks meaning understanding is not worthless because it's the first step to really mastering something but cognitive understanding doesn't make you execute it's just it's giving you the opportunity to get into the next stage so lots of people say I know this or I've heard this or I understand this if you're not doing it you don't understand that you don't own it you sure still haven't mastered it right and that's what I tell myself all the time so second level then if

I'm not getting level I want and I understand that what's wrong while I haven't linked enough emotion to it and the second level master is emotional mastery an emotional mastery simply means that you do something with enough repetition you understand it your repetition is the mother of skill my teacher Jim Rohn used to teach me he's a Tony if you want to get good at anything if you look at anybody look at you know curry is the most incredible 3-point shooter in the game probably the best player of the game today and NBA I mean

the level of practice he does doing the same thing over and over and over and over again Kobe Bryant who's just about to retire right now and he had to go out make 400 shots in a practice before he left didn't matter how many shots he had to take he had to make 400 he had that level of discipline most people will say understands I know how to make a free throw well that and $4 get your Starbucks right that is not gonna make a free throw knowing how it's not the same as executing what

you need is enough emotion and repetition in other words if I asked you where you were on 9/11 everybody can tell me where they were sitting when they heard about the buildings being crashed into who was with them but I've asked you where are you an atoll Evan August 11th most people have a clue it's because information without emotion is not stored it's not retained at the same level so what you really need to do to master something is first you understand it then you gotta start practicing at doing it but with enough emotional intensity

when you realize if I execute this this is what it means I'm gonna change the world I'm gonna change my business I'm gonna change my clients I'm gonna make a fortune whatever it is that floats your boat so to speak but also if I don't do this this is what's gonna cost me when you link enough consequences both positive and negative to following through and not falling through your brains gonna start applying things just enough repetition with enough emotion alone will get you where it starts to get in your body and then we want to

finally get to the third step of mastery and that's what all this is about in business you want to get to physical mastery that third level is where you've done so many repetitions of something he's done it was so much emotion you practice it so effectively over and over again then now it's effortless you don't even think about it you just execute it just occurs you know you gotta train yourself to do that but if you do it with enough emotion enough consistency you'll get to that third level and that's where everybody comes by and

thinks you're a genius that's what everybody raves about how extraordinary you are or how lucky you are and then understand that everything you were being rewarded for in public is cuz you practice your ass off in private leaders are not born they're created now sometimes people think leaders are born because it's a personality type but if you really look at it there are all kinds of leaders there are outrageous intense passionate leaders there are quiet more internal leaders but they lead as thought leaders they lead by example the best leader someone who's being their true

self they have something that they're driven by there's something they want to serve greater than themselves and they're able to inspire other people to go on that journey with them and give their best on a consistent basis even when the leaders not their management is getting people to do things while you observe them anyone can manage but if you're gonna build a successful business and you're gonna end up not being a business operator who's stressed all the time because you're doing everything and you become a business owner who can be gone and things are still

going well that's a person that has not only been a great leader but they've developed great leaders as well and great entrepreneurs at the most elite level are great leaders because they practice this deep practice they don't just learn something intellectually they figure out how am I gonna use it how am i apply it let's apply it again let's get better and better until this literally becomes a part of me so we're we're about to do is we're gonna spend an hour together and that probably sounds like a long time especially online for people today

but I know you're the real deal and you're not gonna cut corners so what we're gonna do today is really working on seeing if we can't start creating an integration whatever people tell me I want to have a work/life balance and they're an entrepreneur or they tell me I got into business so I could have more free time I usually laugh that's like saying you know you want to have a child you can have more free time but what is possible is not work/life balance that's that's a that's an illusion that's that's a wannabe or

a dabblers approach what you really want is work-life integration where you were able to work your ass off and enjoy your work it's really a mission for you and the people and the environment that you live in as a part of it that's really what the opportunity is here I think for you and that's what this podcast is really about to a great extent so if we're gonna be fulfilled this podcast can offer you some massive value because I really think what you can learn here in just 60 minutes it's not just some business jargon

because Talk's cheap but really what we're gonna learn is a way of looking at your business that I think can take you to the next level so let's get to our guest for this session Noah Kagan know as employee number 30 at Facebook when things were literally just getting off the ground I mean he has a level of history and understanding of what a growth business looks like that few people can compare with and he then headed marketing at mint.com before it was sold to intuit just under two hundred million dollars less than two years

later he wanted to create appSumo and he heads up a blog and an online course aimed to help budding opportunity entrepreneurs rather take action and really start getting results and what I love most about know is he knows the 80/20 rule that when it comes to business 80% of your success of psychology and 20% of mechanics the chokehold any business I always tell people is always the leader the business owner so it takes hunger to push yourself to master something new and if you got that hunger now let's step in and let's begin to learn

what does it take so you're not a wannabe but you're the person producing the results you're the person living the dream not talking about it so let's begin let's introduce you here to Noah gate it [Music] you have a brilliant idea that you just know is the next big thing so you register an LLC order top-of-the-line business cards design the perfect website you even write a 50 page business plan but months and months go by and you still haven't made that first dollar sound familiar this is the story of thousands of aspiring entrepreneurs who never

truly put their ideas into action and never never get any further than where they started in fact all they really ever achieve is the title want rapport if you've never heard the term want rapport it's basically anyone who spends their time and money on everything else except creating a real business they focus on the external factors like the business cards the logo the website which may be necessary components of your business down the line but none of these will make that first sale real entrepreneurs in comparison care about one thing building a product or service

that people want that doesn't mean they won't build a website or worry about marketing they just aren't focused on that they're concerned with addressing pain points providing real customer value proposition and creating a scalable profitable and sustainable model here to talk more about what it takes to become a true entrepreneur is the founder of appSumo Noah Kagan Noah has quite the resume he was employing number 30 at Facebook he headed up marketing at Mynt calm before it was sold for 170 million to intuit and his popular course monthly 1k comm helps budding entrepreneurs take action

validate their ideas and launch businesses he keeps a personal blog at okay dork calm focusing on startups marketing and self exploration Noah thanks for joining us thank you ladies for having me I normally think you guys what you're not guys point it's okay it's gender neutral hey you people thank you very much for having me today nice I want to jump right into the validation process so there are a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs who are pouring massive amounts of money and time into their idea without validating at first can you speak a little bit about

the importance of validating your idea before launching your business yeah so what people can do instead of Valerie you just give me all your money and I'll tell you it's stupid and then you'll be back where you're gonna be in six months anyways what I think would be easier is just kind of stories of me not validating so I've probably spent close to a year of life and then probably about half a million dollars on businesses that really never got any traction and never got anywhere a specific one we built was called bet arcade and

we basically kind of like a FanDuel or draftkings about six years ago and I don't really do gambling at all I don't really follow sports so clearly doing a sports gambling was a great idea we went to Vegas we got lawyers we spent all this money on designers we developed it for six months launched it and there was like complete crickets and I think when people have these ideas they want to think their ideas are super unique everyone does like this is the one idea and then counter to that a lot of people like I

don't have any ideas I'll never have that one idea and so we finally launched this and with crickets and two months later we you know ended up shutting it down completely another time a customer of ours we were doing payments company we're doing payments for a lot of these large companies like Zynga and tagged and area games a lot of you know very popular Facebook games and one of these people said hey you should build this and once you build it I'll pay you and so we spent three months building it cost probably I think

an arranged a development cost probably around 60 to 100 K and we went back to them and we said hey we built this thing you said you wanted and they're like hey we're really busy right now and this is Disney and they have a lot of money but we obviously didn't get a contract or validate but they were really gonna pay for it ahead of time and so those are kind of like just two of many examples of things that I've done where I didn't validate and then so that kinda has really taught me an

ingrained in me where like money is truth you know talk is hate when talk is cheap is kind of a cheesy one that we already know but basically like money is a truth serum and what I encourage everyone to do which most people still won't do is try to get to them like they won't try to get that dollar first I call it the velocity the $1 where it's like how can you get $1 right away so an example on the other side is I did a conference a few years ago and when I did

the conference before I got a venue before I paid for speakers before I pay for food I went out and emailed people and said hey I'm selling tickets to an event you should buy my event that was called community next and this is before I had really anything confirmed I told people who I was trying to get to view the speakers I told people where I thought the event would be I said here's gonna be the day that it should happen on and you know I ended up selling like a few hundred dollars in tickets

and it really gave me that validation right away that that had a potential to be real business and so that that's obviously a smaller example and we could do a you know and go through many other examples but almost any business today you should be able to validate and figure out within a week I generally encourage people to do it within 48 hours to try to get three paying customers and not the promise of paying unless it's in writing actual payments so do you do you go through a process to where you try to validate

it not just will people pay period but how much will they pay do you set from price points and play around with those I don't I don't that's come I there's the term I always uses want renewer and a lot of it my friend Ryan saw this it's a lot of people like the idea of playing business so they buy all this software they read all these books they buy all these courses and I actually think most people know the answers but they're kind of looking for other things outside of the hard part you know

that some of the hard parts is just like the fear of rejection if you're of Nobin liking it the fear of it actually even working that's been one of the more surprising ones with helping people start businesses is that when it actually does work they want to sabotage themselves because they're you know not sure what to do now so pricing I would discourage you know and I think the pricing is like as long as they buy like you can always kind of change your pricing afterwards that's the way I've looked at it and most of

our businesses like tsunami calm which is our marketing tools for websites helps you know web sites grow you know we've changed our pricing now six times in two years or in about a year and a half excuse me and like MailChimp which everyone knows and a lot of people use if you read their blog they've chains are pricing ten times even more and those in their years that they've been around the point there was a people actually willing to get their their credit card there's you know cash I was a wallet the hard-earned money and

exchanged that for the value of the product or service that you're trying to provide yeah and I think all people have fear to that if they change their prices that they'll be can you know perceived as inconsistent but consumers have such a short memory like they're not gonna remember how much they paid for it well I think part of that as well as being candid with people right so if you a buddy of mine runs a SAS company and your best customers the ones you already have and so instead of trying to always work on

new customers he told me he's like you know what I do is I go to he doesn't was frequently but he goes to his current customers he said hey guys we're trying to be a sustainable business we built all these new features we need to raise the price a little bit more to this number to make it work for you if you haven't unless you have any problems with it I'm changing it in two weeks and he doesn't do this every month but he this about once a year and he hardly uses any customers and

he significantly grows his business you're doing that two examples of things that are be relevant to this as well in regards to pricing is one when I whenever you're trying to validate or start a business I always encourage people to do a quick spreadsheet Google Docs is free you can even do it on pen and paper and so I started a jerky business called sumo jerky and I did it in 24 hours I didn't use any of my connections I didn't use any of my network I didn't use you know I have this big following

I didn't use any of it I started I literally just use zero I spent you know the beginning of it I mean a quick spreadsheet to say alright what price do I need a B to make a thousand dollar profit in 24 hours and that helped me choose $20 per soon per jerky bag and so that was kind of like alright well I know I need to do that and then through doing that spreadsheet I realized like no way can I sell you know 50 or whatever the number is to get to the thousand dollars

a profit or it was more than 50 to get profit actually so I realized then I had to do subscriptions and I had to do corporate sales so selling to like office managers so I think if you do a quick model doesn't have to be super complicated don't call it your banker friends but that actually gave me a lot more clarity until like alright what price point makes sense for the customer that I thought was reasonable a lot of times with pricing I'm not we've done a lot of price testing it up so you know

we've built very complicated engines that do it and I think and we've actually reverted to not doing those because we think it's kind of I don't we don't think it's nice to a customer to have you pay different price in your friend and we generally just try to price it where we think is a reasonable value like what do we think is my friend calls a 10 X value so if you pay five dollars are you getting 50 dollars in value or just like hey what do you think is a reasonable price for you to

pay for the service or product yeah that makes sense so you mentioned earlier that you really people get so hung up on the product and Tony says this Chili's like people don't care about your product you're the only one who cares about your product it's really more about the customer so you really need to figure out who your client is do you have any recommendations for people who are starting out like how do you how do we how do you identify that client who the customer yeah who the customer is exactly well so I can

speak from examples when I did you know AB sumo I you know a lot of times that's the easiest this is where I think people get misled the easiest customer to satisfy is yourself and I think we're a lot of new entrepreneurs or people don't just getting going is if they focus more on the opportunity then actually solving a problem that they're interested in because I think when you're selling saying that you personally want yours take with it longer when there's harder times which is inevitable even now we're multi multi-million dollar company and we have

an amazing team all that stuff we still go through challenges so I don't generally try to like focus on people or products that don't really serve something that I have understanding of so like appSumo started targeting startups so I knew exactly where start this word because I was one with sumo jerky and it was kind of a healthy delicious kind of more more for like kind of Fitness people so I basically went on Facebook and looked at all my friends who I like fitness categories tagged and I went to my fitness groups and I went

to maybe some entrepreneur groups that had like office snacks so I kind of targeted more people like myself and isn't that made a lot easier I think that's generally what I would encourage more people to do I think a lot of people that go for the opportunities it's fleeting and then once you kind of hit some bumps like you quit really easily yeah that's a good points but if it's your passion you'll be you're more likely to stick with it it's closer to your heart you hear all these different arguments about passion versus not passion

just like I think an easy way of defining it is like do something that you wouldn't quit on like do something that you're like I just keep doing this until I get it because I just really want it so like app single it's like I just would promote things anyways for free or like sue me which is our main product you know I mean flagship product like we serve people who have businesses online that want to grow their businesses and that's who we are and we built the tools for ourselves and so it's easier to

understand like the needs and once and like you know with marketing as you talked about a little bit in specific examples marketing is really who and where that's it and so if I already know who the people are cuz that's me I also have a pretty darn good interesting of where they are - yep and who and where I mean that'll help you with user acquisition but I love the fact that you were saying that the big part of a big overlooked area is is customer retention right so going after the customers that you have

currently and keeping them happy oh it's it's so easy it's like dating right like you're married right it's so much easier just to keep your husband happy or your wife happy then go out on tinder and like you have to go on these dates and then you have to like get them to know you and it's like just make the one you already have happier just figure out like what's you know what's the issue and then work on that it's just a lot easier same with your customers yeah I was just only gonna add one

funny piece of the story where and I can show you actually I've done some newer businesses that I've helped some friends do where I was completely removed so it didn't use any might you know a promotion but one thing that was funny was like when I was even doing jerky business I went to people that were friends and this is something that a lot of people were listening or thinking well he has friends that are rich or he has friends at all his friends of course would help him by him because when I when I

start businesses I always go to my my inner network first I think it's much much easier but your friends you know they'll tell you straight up so I was just gonna share that my mom and I love my parents and my brother but my whole family none of them bought it and so it's you know as much as you think everyone's gonna help you out and everyone's gonna pay for it this is the whole point of validation is that when you get that rejection it's it's a great moment cuz one you didn't we saw the

money in time and two you can actually find out what they do want so maybe my brother hates jerky but he drinks a lot of green tea so I could do a green tea business maybe in the future and that's a great learning I can share on to things that every time I share them people just go nuts over and they always love them to help people get over their fears and gets you know get started validate and get started asking people for things because that's you know today I wouldn't asked for a free parking

validation for the garage I wasn't even though I didn't eat at the restaurant I just went up to the front desk and I was like hey I've eaten here before I like you guys you mind giving me free parking and you know I was a little scared but I also was like no you got to put yourself in these uncomfortable places to get comfortable asking yeah cuz really that's all businesses you're asking for money in exchange for what you're providing so I can give a few kind of like challenges that people always seem to like

if you want yeah it'd be great so you you know number one it's called the coffee challenge this is kind of like our signature one and the coffee challenge what you do is you go up to any Starbucks or any coffee place or any tea place or anywhere you eat or go to regularly and you just ask for 10% off and so everyone who's listening or most people listening said that sounds easy that you know I had a guy who was this ten year sales person and he went and tried it and he was like

I can do this in a cake man you're nothing you're a nobody no I'll do the coffee challenge easy and I just said hey report back tell me what you learn about yourself and he reports back he's like that was scary me reporting to act like oh holy crap that was a lot harder than I thought and you know I think the fact that you can kind of practice those kind of things or as I did with parking or one of my more a harder one for me but I still do it and I have

to force myself is at the airport I was asked for people's newspapers it's just a challenge like I go I challengers up not to buy a newspaper or magazine and if people have it next I'm like hey do you mind if I hear newspaper they're like I'm reading it I'm like there any section you have and uh and I you know sometimes I'm reading home in garden which is not my favorite but it's you active like consistently practicing it's like any skill the more you're kind of practicing this stuff so the coffee challenge the newspaper

challenge or in an airport you can also do that you take someone else's seat challenge that one's a really awkward one yeah yeah intentionally or unintentionally intentionally Wow I was actually gonna ask you do you think this is is it a personality thing or I mean might be a gender thing I know a lot of women who are not afraid to ask yeah I mean women are better than men for most things so yeah women are probably more fearless I don't know no I think I was raised in a certain way where my mom would

like my I love my mom she's so cute she's trying to return silverware from her 1970s marriage from the wedding she got civil with and she's trying to return it to Macy's mom mom 1970 she's like but it's brand new it's brand new Noah but you serious mom melted down sell it on the black market who knows she's convinced and she goes and she speaks to the salesperson she could probably convince the salesperson so yeah I completely see where you're coming from it really is all about if you think you're right and you have confidence

when you ask that that you know transfers over to the other person and they start feeling that confidence too like yeah of course that makes perfect sense of course we're gonna give that time exactly one phrase that I really like related to this is that there's no cost to asking the only thing you have there is upside that's it and it's like well if there's no cost and I've no no loss so why don't I just do this and I hope I have this potential to get something more than I have so coming back to

the business part of it it's like it's a muscle just like going to the gym just like public speaking just like you know anything you want to learn the more your kind of practice going out there and asking for things and failing and getting over being rejected it makes it a lot easier when you're going out and starting new businesses that when you get rejected you're like okay cool and you just keep going then kind of just giving up and you know we're treating so going out into the business were all in asking I mean

I think that's that's definitely something you hear all these stories about people who fail a hundred times but it doesn't matter because of those 99 times one time they succeed or one time somebody says yes and that's what propels you into the into the next step I was just gonna say for anyone like my biggest satisfaction is action and so for anyone listening today you know we've kind of go over the coffee challenge we don't understand the validation and I'm happy to share more validation stories and techniques but my big thing I think you know

Tony as well and if you would both agree is that like go do it today take a piece of paper out right now if you're listening get your notes section out on your phone and just write the one thing you'll do today go you'll do the coffee challenge you'll ask one person for a customer you'll ask one person for a recommendation on someone else who could be a customer but make sure you write the one thing down they'll do otherwise you're just listening to it as fodder and there's nothing that your life will be better

today where's it just kind of going on and nothing is gonna change yeah and holding yourself accountable yeah when you write it down it just makes it real yeah I read everything down I mean it's just wow like I had a meeting with my partner he's got a like a computer brain so it doesn't write crap down but I have to write it all down write down multiple places just so I can always remember it so um I wanted to get into sort of after a validation right what's what's the next phase what do you

go into at that point what are some of the challenges involved in scaling your business yeah so I'm gonna give you another example of a recent because I feel like the examples and like the specific tactics or I know that's what I was like hearing so we started a new site recently called we've done to one sleep sumo calm and one's called router taco calm and they were both like just stupid ideas I had but I was like well let me just give him to someone else and I'll just guide them and let them do

the work but I'll kind of give them suggestions along the way and so for router taco his challenge was to make $1 in a week online and it sounds so stupid you're like $1 just go on the street and Panhandle it but you know I think that's what's kind of funny about online we think you just throw up these websites and then money just starts like reining in and it only happens like now we're multi-million dollar business but that's six years later you know I think that you know people need to be willing to commit

six months of suffering and hard work to actually get results and that's what most people are willing to do and that's why they don't have what they want so with him who's validating can I get a dollar in a week online and he did okay so now for him the idea and I can go through other examples like what soon when me and appSumo how do you get that $1 to $10 so a lot of times people talk about 10x what I like to do is like all right how do we have a spreadsheet about

where we want to be within about a year timeframe so I make a very simple spreadsheet I say if my goal for this site you know his goal is to get to $1 three months right so what you need to do is to make a spreadsheet of like at the end of every week where do I need to be and then on a daily basis you need to be checking against yourself like hey how am i close to her I am to the target of where I need to be by the end of the by

the end of this week and then you can make adjustments accordingly and that's what we do is swing we calm we have a specific revenue goal for the end of the year and we've broken it down to a monthly basis and then on a daily basis I check to see how we're doing and every week I read so what that means is on Mondays I'm looking at our numbers and how we're trending towards our goal and then I either do more things like I go to our content team Sarah isn't running it you know amazing

job with our content team I say Sarah you know you guys did this that worked really well last week like the sales even we did guess what they're doing it again this week or the paid marketing side that hasn't worked as well so maybe I'm turning down some of my paid marketing but sales side is work is actually so much showing profits so it's like right now let's try to hire actually a second person the analogy that I always use and I like it's like going anywhere it's like getting going to a destination so you

guys are in beautiful San Diego California let's say I wanted to drive there so I can get my California burrito what I would do is that I would look on the map where it is so I know my goal right and then what do you and this is kind of stuff where in-house will really see it where now you know your goal is now you just have to get the directions of the most efficient way an effective way for you to get to that end destination so is it flying is it driving is it bicycling

is it unicycling I don't know other things and then you find the best most effective path and then as you're going along the path you need to check your GPS to see if you're going you know the plan that you said and maybe there's a few better ways and maybe there's not and so that's kind of I think where most people are missing out on the second piece so one have kind of a clear roadmap of where you want to go and how you're gonna get there right and then secondly one thing that that that's

been massive for me is just like I've had I am very great at starting and doing new things and so I've had to build a team to support me that are amazing at continuing things and growing things that already working and so the point there is that you have to think about how to multiply yourself right and so if it in the beginning hire interns so aiming on our that runs up so you oh he has like two or three interns from University of Texas there's a bunch of people who need stuff for their resume

there's a bunch people on Craigslist who will help you with free work with the idea that they'll get paid so we started that and eventually especially few have no money don't pay a lot and then as you get more money you can hire like we have now like really high quality people and so the idea of just thinking about multiplying your so all that with the roadmap or kind of the Keith I would say key fundamentals for thinking about scaling your business which is like what is working in the business that I can do more

of that's part of the roadmap and then making sure you have amazing people around you one of the books I'd say that that's helped me a lot with that is like mastering the Rockefeller habits that was a really strong book I'm sure a bunch of Tony's books will help as well but that's one that I've read in the past that I just really you know identified with another one like if you look at a lot of the famous biographies like Elan is kind of a more recent one but Steve Jobs or any of these guys

who've built impressive things they didn't build it by themselves right so what they did it was went out and actually like they were the best recruiters and found the best people or identified those people around them and brought them in to help create something bigger than they could by themselves so you mentioned you're getting interns from like local universities and what a lot of people have challenges with that like how do you identify top talent and I mean I know if you get smart resourceful people though training is is more minimal but what are some

of these do you have any kind of like tips for people to to you know be able to surround themselves with with top talent yeah it's you know recruiting is like finding a good man they're hard to find like it's it's tough and it takes effort so you know think about your if you're wanting to hire a really great pool it's a very clear function of how much input you're getting is how well of the output you're gonna get up great people like and that's the simplest way of understanding it more importantly your mindset needs

to be I'm gonna put a lot of time this is the most important thing if it is and then the result of that will be you'll get the best people available so things that I've done that have helped you know our company sumo me.com and appszoom calm with routing number one you've got to do it on a regular basis so what we've done incorrectly a lot of times we start recruiting when we need the people not before we need the people so if you're looking like hey I'm gonna need someone you need to start recruiting

three months before you think you need that because you're starting and then you'll be three months behind if you start too late so start earlier secondly throw events so I host a lot I used to host more events like if you're in a new city just like hey I'm gonna pay for drinks and do it during happy hour at the cheapest bar and just pay for drinks and invite a few people secondly whenever I travel I always ask someone who I like is someone who I'm impressed with hey can you invite one person to join

us for lunch I'll do this pretty much anytime I try I'll go to any place I say hey I'd really like to like you know I'd like to take you to lunch - who's one person that you really enjoy around you so like you know in Seattle my friend Manny recommended Aaron or in San Francisco like I remember who exactly recommend it but you have new people that come in that way third I reach out on a regular basis so like how can you reach out to people that you're impressed with for what their company

is most people will give you time for lunch most will give you time for lunch a few other things that have helped that I've helped like impressive people hang out with impressive people so if you have everyone in their network has one person they respect there's all even if you're in a random state I can't pick a steak so let's just go to the worst case near your in Wyoming you have no one around you you can't host events you can't go you're not traveling you don't have money for that go online and so what

do you do online there's two options one you go work for someone for free that's impressive so you you don't email them hey I'll kind of work for you for free you go and tell them something specific hey I noticed on your site you don't have any images I'll make images for your top 20 articles hey on your site I noticed that you don't have any videos I'm gonna make you some videos hey can I write a guest post about this I don't need anything else here's an outline do you mind if I finish it

up for you so go work with someone impressive for free and impress them secondly go buy a product of someone so Tony's product monthly 1k or another person where you get access to a community of other impressive people a lot of the people that we've hired at appSumo and Suomi have been our customers they already like us already know us so for you if you have customers or partners or any you know this is something that I've really try to think about have I worked with anyone in the past that I was like damn that

guy was good or that lady was really impressive and those people try to hire them or ask them who they're impressed with right and that's a really easy win and then again what I was saying earlier just to finish that thought is that if you go buy a product or if you're an online group there's always one or two people in the group or like the all-stars and so how can you surround yourselves with people like them right and then it subsequently you also have to think why would they want to be surrounded by you

what do you what value are you providing to them so there's a lot of different online communities if you're in marketing there's growth hackers calm there's inbound org on like you know public forum sites there's also Facebook groups for marketing sales small business and if there's not one why don't you create it and then spend each day you invite one person and that's your thing that's what I did in Austin I create Austin startups five and a half years ago and I moved to Austin okay I'll just bring old Austin starts together and I didn't

know anyone here I just came by myself and I just started inviting as many people as I could and I asked them to invite as many people as they could and now it's an 11,000 person group and we actually hired Robert who's an amazing developer through that group and I think other people have applied it we've maybe I don't even realize it that I've come through just that group alone yeah it was a bunch of different things I'd say the biggest thing overall is look what y'all ready have access to and your network and your

LinkedIn and your Facebook and your own friends who they recommend and then proactively spend time each week like block out ten fifteen thirty an hour of reaching out like if it's a priority like look at how much of your week are you spending on that priority so like I will tell you for recruiting like something like this it goes out there people know Soumya comm is recruiting and they come and apply I spend probably sixty to eighty percent of my week recruiting right now because this is the biggest priority in our company and so you

know for someone else who says hey I want to grow any more people like look at how much time you're actually spending on that versus other things yeah what's nice is there's there's also other benefits to of actively growing your network because while you're also attracting talent for open positions you're also you know opening yourself up to new opportunities like potential partnerships or you know senior level talent that type of a type of thing so it's definitely a great advice most people aren't ready to jump right away and I think with recruiting that's what we

expect right you're like go to someone you're like hey come work for us it's like dude I don't know you you wanted to get married I need it I need I need a date or two for that to be a reality and I think one you know here's my compass for a lot of what we do with recruiting is just like how's my energy while I mean while interacting with these people and so I think that's kind of an interesting barometer so for you you know you the listener like who do you talk to hung

out with or read that their energy and their presence gave you just like increased your energy level right and that's for me it kind of who I like to recruit like man I feel good around you obviously they have to be a good you know performance wise but that's kind of an interesting way of considering like who you shouldn't you know maybe talk to about recruiting or who they can refer to you yep absolutely so you know that's that's what about the stage where you're growing our business I think a lot of people listening to

might be in a position where they have a nine-to-five job right and they're making their ends meet they have a family they want to build their business and maybe they've started it and maybe they've already validated their product or service but they're at this inflection points they don't know whether or not they should leave there stood a job and they're setting in to pursue this business full-time did you run into that at some point or do you have any advice for people to kind of help identify how do you know when you're ready to take

that big leap really like life is very short and so like I don't want to waste my time and I don't really want you know I started my career and career sound so weird but like my career is in Intel I was in a cubicle doing spreadsheets all day just like maybe some of the listeners are and until I appreciate them giving me the job but I knew that I was going to start my own thing and so I think there's something there where if you can't go backwards right like there's no option like you're

like hey I'm quitting like there's some there's some balls to that like that's really impressive that's actually not how I am though I'm actually pretty risk-averse about quitting my job to start something new so I'll just tell you my exact story so when I was at mint.com I started building facebook games at night and I said if I can make at least $3,000 a month which would cover me living abroad then I would quit so I think what people need to do is look at there was a lowest common denominator of money that they need

per month to be able to quit their job and they either need to be there or have a clear indicator to get there I am NOT a risk taker well okay I'm gonna quit and just figure it out that's just not how I've been so at Facebook at Mintz I said I'm gonna quit when I got three thousand dollars a month for my Facebook games and I won't say yeah three thousand then I quit and when I was where I was consulting with the company called speed-date and they were paying me a lot they pay

me 115 an hour which I just thought was insane I was like you guys are so cool I love you and so I'm consulting for them and that's where I started appSumo where I just literally like super ghetto I paid $50 for an outsourcer - I like help me build this crappy website that we did together and I you know saw if anybody would actually give me money for software you know software deals and so I basically said if I felt like it was comparable salary to that 6,000 a month that I was getting on

retainer like if I saw that I could get to that amount then I would quit and so about four months after doing it it got to that amount and then I quit so basically I would say what's the amount of money you need per month to live comfortably you know yeah and then at that moment if you either there or gonna get there then I would make that leap well it's on the leap at that point you actually know exactly what's gonna happen afterwards yeah it's like a strategic shift I mean I think a lot

of our listeners too I mean it sounds great to be able to live abroad or to have lowest common denominator of what you can survive on a lot of a lot of people you know they have they have families right or they have mortgages or they feel trapped because they have financial obligations or maybe they haven't quite achieved the level of financial independence or freedom that they ideally would want to have before taking that step what would you say to people who are in that kind of more need more structure well so I think for

me it's hard to I think we can really empathize or understand certain situations like I don't know what it's like to be minority I don't know it's like to have a family I've just never done either of those two things but I've seen and I've met people not trying to start businesses with the family and I've actually I do realize that it's harder it's easy for me to say like you know one of the things that's easy to say is wake up earlier stay up later but if you have to get up at 5:00 to

take care of the kids drop off for practice and then at night you need your kids exactly and then you have maybe an hour that you have that hour at night like I don't have kids I'm not married so it's a lot easier for me to see those things and so you have to you know maybe your pace is gonna be a little bit slower but it's like all right where can I fit it in if it's actually a priority I don't think actually most people want to start their own business I just think they

want to have jobs they like so for the people with family it's like try to find some kind of problem or thing that you want to work on and you're excited about because especially you're a limited in time and then you do have to break out that time so every Sunday I break out my calendar I'm very clear about where my time is going to be allocated and so if you really want to start your own business like break out like hey every Monday 1:00 to 2:00 p.m. that's you know and every you know those

are my hours that I just do not compromise on so like every Tuesday and Thursday from 8:00 from 9:30 to 11:00 Tuesdays and Thursdays my study time and I do not compromise on that like it has to be in accept like an emergency or like a very unique case for me to change those times another thing that I think will help a lot of families out or people who are maybe in more independent locations like they don't have a big network or they don't have globular on them that are trying to start their own businesses

you need to get an accountability buddy so mine is Adam from my body tutor comm and so I literally email him every single Sunday I tell him what I'm gonna do I told him and I review what I did the previous week and so I have other friends that we do this on a daily basis they email me like hey here's my goal here's how I did today against my goal and they do it every day Saturday Sunday birthdays weddings bar mitzvahs there's no excuses and I do notice for myself and for them just having

that like I know I have to email them it kind of puts a little bit more that pressure on you to actually make that a reality another thing too is you know make sure you reward yourself so if you're trying to start your own business like push put short timeframes like put some pressure and yourself like alright in three months one month I'm gonna hit this goal and when you hit that goal maybe reward yourself like go get like I don't know ice cream I'm working at you know and so and I think the other

thing I think the other thing too is that especially if you're if you're in a family if you're strapped of time if you don't have a bunch of capital you really need to be prioritize you need to be not necessarily just consuming things you need to be really thinking am i consuming or am i produce it and your time for the most part it especially in these early phases your producer you are figuring out what people want you are giving them that and above that and you're continually trying to figure how do I make this

repeatable another thing that actually Gary Vee mentioned to a friend of mine which I thought was an interesting thing about relationships to your point Ana is that you have to make sure you have the right partner so I don't think you can divorce your husband or your wife but you need to make sure in this what Gary said I thought it was a pretty good point point which is you neither have a full back and so that means that your partner is like in the play with you they're like helping with the business so I

met like Scott from happen to your career com think it's happened to your career happened to your critic on Scott and his wife is with him and she does the back office and he does the front office and they're a great team that way so either you have a full back partner or you have a cheerleader or you know cheerleader I was making sure that was unisex cheers yeah yeah we can't say anything that is and so I need to make sure someone on the side who is just like yo if you need to go

out of 3 a.m. to go to not for partying but to go to meet a potential client they're actually like helping press your pants or press your skirt though like hey you need to go out there and do that and that's kind of making sure that you have the right partner that's a line for the the goals that you want yeah and to make sure that you are rewarding ourselves or they're helping to reward you too yeah I mean it's so easy not to be satisfied it's so easy you know even what that's like we

you know we do really well we have a great team we have Co offices we take teen vacations like we're going to Chicago in a few months and you know I do have like I appreciate my girlfriend where she comes like dude you're doing so well and sometimes when you're kind of in the fishbowl you don't get to see from the outside so it is nice to have a partner who's either being really supportive oh they show you supportive but either in the place with you or on the sidelines you know encouraging you yeah especially

so building a business is probably one of the hardest things that you can do so I want to talk a little bit about the mental and emotional stakes right so when you're trying to bring an idea into Frisch and there's a lot of doubt and there's a lot of apprehension because you know the odds are stacked against you and a lot of successful entrepreneurs tell you that their business you know finally took off but it was like the umpteenth iteration of an idea so it's it could take three weeks it could take three years it

could take ten years all right so what's your advice for conquering fear of rejection and failure and sort of having the mental toughness to make it through I mean what is probably one of the most difficult things to to undertake I mean number one do the challenges that we talked about so it could even be like going up to random strangers and taking a photo of them it could be doing the coffee challenge it could be doing the newspaper challenge in the airports or the seat challenge and it really kind of overcoming your fears is

just practice right I think there's rejection therapy on reddit if you want to go to that subreddit and you know see what they're you know suggesting around that I think the practicing and getting that fear muscle just basically indestructible like I'm not I also don't think I'm gifted intellectually but I do think of myself sometimes as like a steamroller or a brute we're like I'm just okay trying some I'm okay doing it and what I think I do well is even though I'll do it if it's not working I'm trying to understand well what did

work and why didn't this work and then how do I iterate that on for the next time so with like appSumo for instance I just like emailed someone I said hey can you give me a product and I'll promote it so we do it like a Groupon like a daily deal or weekly deal for products and I just emailed said hey can I just sell it and I'll give you seven bucks every when I fell he said sure you know or recently I asked a company if I could have some free credit for our hosting

and they said sure they get it after 40 emails they give us ten thousand bucks I was like you guys are awesome and so I think number one you got to just practice asking and you got to overcome that fear that's why when we did monthly 1k fear and being comfortable asking for things was like the number one thing that we were not expecting to teach people it was number one thing because people were so scared to ask people for money for something that for an exchange of something some and the second thing I do

as I said earlier I just thinking you work on problems and things that you're interested in because that makes it just a lot easier for you to make them a reality and you also know exactly how to make them and so if you're trying to start a business like coming back to some of the newer people like go and see how you can do yourself do it within a short and give yourself a shorter timeframe so like maybe it's 30 dollars in 30 days or it's like it's like a dollar in one day and I

know it only sounds like a dollar but I I promise you when you get that first PayPal you know that's like you've got paid like that you know that first one is just like a game danger it that kind of gives you so much momentum and confidence to keep moving forward and then moving on and saying alright well I got my first dollar all right now how do I get the second one so just like with router taco it's like he got his first dollars now he's like you know he's more motivated to do more

things to actually grow that business and get that going even further yeah so those small shifts that you make to constantly improve I mean that's that's a great way to build momentum right and to maintain a certain level of energy toward your business have you personally gone through periods where you sort of lose that momentum and then what would you say to people to who are kind of going through a down period where you know maybe things seem great on the outside because that's kind of the nature of being an entrepreneur right is you're like

yeah everything's great like you don't really talk openly about your problems because you're just focusing on solving them but well how do you cope with you know how do you cope with things when it everything's not all hunky-dory right and your your pictures of you on a beach you know that was taken from like three years ago oh no I just keep photoshopping so a few things are that I've definitely go through my dark days and I think it's like even during my week like so there's five work days a week technically and I'd say

probably one of those five is just like an awesome day so like let's say last Friday we you know the development and design team pushed out amazing new features on sumo me we went for a team outing for golfing with top golf in Austin and it was just one of these days where I'm like it's just good to be alive you know I like Q the Drake song and let's party but the other four days you know it's just a lot of grinding and so sometimes I think you have to do is take a step

back and see how you're moving in the overall macro to the direction of where you want to go because I think sometimes in the micro in the day-to-day in the grind like you just don't really see that you're making that progress so you've number one you have to know like what's my macro and how am i moving towards that so reviewing that on a regular basis number two you kind of a lot of times if I'm struggling like let say I'm having a shitty day all I do is I go back to the rule of

one and so what that means is I just go back and help one customer that's it just go do one thing you know will make you feel good and for businesses a lot of times it's like go typically you've already helped there do generally like you and go help them right and that's it and a lot of times I've done that in almost every single time I've done that I felt a lot better I felt more motivated I felt like the things that were working on were helping people specifically this person and I was able

to move forward with it and so the last thing I could say is really look at who you're surrounding yourself with so if you're in a funk or if you're around people that are like in flunks themselves like not you shouldn't abandon them but you should really try to put yourself and Tony's famous thing it's like you're the average of your five people you're also the average of the five places you spend a lot of time so if you're in an office and none of them are sharing their own businesses or none um were motivated

like you probably need to put yourself in a better location and I'll tell you so like a story with Anton it was Sunday night during this period which sucked during appSumo and I hit up Anton and he you know I was like Anton works with we work together my bro dude it's Sunday Monday is gonna suck you have to mine I'm the leader of the company by the way - and Anton started like you know maybe you're around the year by then so he's relatively new house like Anton this is the worst dude I can't

believe in Anton's like bro I can't wait for Monday dude it's gonna be rad and I'm like seriously you think yeah there's all this cool stuff to do and and then that just made me want to share that with everyone listening where you're going through a rough period one don't hype you can't hire Anton but my point there is like who do you have around you to bring you up during that kind of low point cuz that's inevitable like if you're in this business and you don't have a low point like I don't think I

just don't think that's even possible or I should come work with you I'll work for you like hire me and I need to learn how you're doing that but my point there is that you're you're it's inevitable it's guaranteed hundred percent you will go through a load day a low point with your company and so having that kind of support network or at least a person or two that you can count on it can always pick you up or give you you know some love like or Anton or Neville and my brother like that's critical

so if you don't have that go find someone like that and you know maybe even hire them one day yep so you mentioned that you're you're really fired up about what you're working on now can you talk a little bit about sort of what's on the horizon do you have some some new stuff cooking what's yeah what's what is what things look like for you yeah so with our company we started out appSumo which is the Groupon for geeks and then we built King sumo which is giveaways plug-ins for WordPress and then monthly 1k which

is how to start a business and then suomi is our flagship product so it's kind of think of it as like a triangle it's like your tools to in your business here's how to start a business and then here's how to grow your business and so everything we focused on is with Sumi which are tools to grow online businesses and so we've been working on this now a little over two years and it's been really fun like in terms of performance we're in the top 1% of all SAS companies so we've had a lot of

success with the product and more importantly like people are using it to grow their email lists to gret get more social shares the thing I would say for us what we've done this year for the first half so far this year and you know with Summa me is that instead of building a lot of new features and a lot of new applications we've improved what we already have and when I repeat that because I think it's important instead of just making a bunch of new things and new toys a new novelty and new stimulation we've

gone back to our core what people are already liking about us which are email tools for the most part and really making them significantly like best-in-class for the market at an amazing price so that's been I mean that's it's not as sexy that's the hard part a lot of times the best things for your business are not the sexy stuff you know sometimes in the kitchen you got to do some things that like are dirty and not really fun but the end of the day that's where a lot of the reward and results are gonna

come from so that's where we've spent a lot of our time which is just like making our primary tools even better and then for as a business wise we were trying to work on hiring salespeople to expand the company besides just online marketing you know actually talking to customers verbally and growing the business that way yeah that's interesting cuz a lot of a lot of people in are trying to get off email but so far I mean like you said social it can be risky and there hasn't been a channel that a new channel that's

that as that is as solid so it's kind of like tried-and-true but it's going to be interesting to see what happens what's the next iteration of business-to-consumer communication right because yeah I think it's there is a possibility that email could go and not go away but sort of evolved into something very different but yeah I think majority of businesses right they are not they're not growing and using their their databases in the in the way that they could there were like you know you're married as we talked about earlier and it's like relying on a

third party to communicate with your husband and you're like well that's that's silly why would I do that I'm like well that's what you're doing now with your business yeah and so I think what I encouraged what we do is that you want predictability and you want consistency and if you need to have that in a business which is important then email is the only way that you can consistently rely on communicating with your customers and selling them and educating them on an ongoing basis so there are other things like everyone's all up in the

snapchat I don't really get why all these businesses are trying to do that fully I think there's something there but I think like you know the email is the one that you know we've kind of made millions of dollars on and we've helped people other people make millions and millions of dollars on and that's what in terms of trends I would say something that I've seen a resurgence and I think Morton will start even be like that I really need to make sure I'm growing my email list active yeah well like you said it's direct

it crosses all sort of demographics - I mean everybody's excited that snapchat because it's Millennials and it's visual but yeah email definitely has broader reach yeah I mean it's snapchat like the new shiny toy that everyone jumps on and then in six months it'll be another toy and like mine was there and then like I don't know meerkat and periscope were there you know I don't think there's I think you can actually you know if you get to a channel early that's where you have a lot of opportunity right like if you get Instagram super

early and you you know you take advantage of it and same with YouTube or some of these things but eventually the market becomes efficient and a lot of the opportunity for subsequent people is lower and so I think what you really have to do ultimately is just probably pick one channel that you've had some success with and really try to figure out how to you 10x and grow through one maybe two channels for market I think most people what they do like us for example we're doing a lot of instagram marketing instagram comm slash sumo

me if you're on your phone and so we've spent a good amount of money doing it and we've you know had pretty good success thing we're like 60,000 followers by the time you listen to this but we haven't seen a bunch of actual results in terms of customers and so I think what most people do is they keep doing it and even though they're not seeing customers they keep doing it and so I think what we've done well as a company is we do it we tried for you know reasonable period of time three months

six months and if it's not working then you have to pull back and then focus on another channel that you actually have seen results on so for us it's our blog like suma me.com slash stories a lot of great content a lot of people read it and that's actually helped grow our business so it's like alright well what if we could take that time and money and put it on that cool well is there anything else no uh that you want to share I mean I'll share one more thing and then I I do have

to get going and I will share five things that people can do to get traffic today because I know that's something that a lot of people who are starting out online are always like hey how do I get that traffic it sound like it's a drug traffic stuff so no you're exactly right the five in here's five that I've done so we did a sleep sumo calm and then router talk or two sites that I've just helped these two guys I didn't use any mind network any my connected I just helped them and these are

the five things that both of them have done to get one of us got ten thousand visitors and around thirty days and the other one has made money not a lot but some within about a week and so these do work you just have to go do them and you're doing him like one of my favorite videos around just doing it is art Williams if you guys have not watched the our games just do it speech it is a game changer like I still get pumped up when I listen to it so yeah go watch

Ireland's just do it speech but the five that worked really well and I'll go and order what you're gonna do number one is you're gonna do giveaways so we have software called King Zumba comm you can use that there's Rafflecopter and there's other software out there they can use for giveaways and what we've done is that we actually ask companies for free products so you don't have to spend money but what you do is you go to a coming like hey I want to promote you and then you run a giveaway with their stuff and

then you get a bunch of new people and that works really really really well that's why we've done all of our businesses we even sold we're selling our software that we know that we've used effectively ourselves number two is interviews go and interview a lot of people I did this at mint calm as well and that's like mint.com grab off from us 300 million so you go interview people you know hopefully relevant ones like ideally their readers their customers their fans or ones that you would like as well and you make a really nice interview

you put it on your site make it pretty send it to them and a lot of times they'll share it number three is guest posting a lot of people have already heard this one but guest posting if you do it well you will get a lot of traffic you will get backlinks and it really helps grow your business because it's free and as all these people who are actually getting educated and learning something from you and subsequently you know they'll come to your site and purchase if you're in a service business like maybe you're a

realtor a lawyer a doctor who what other business could you actually complement and help out is there another like an accountant that you can come and say hey can I do a presentation a webinar an email a blog post for your customers and I'll do something for free and it will be great and it's subsequently their customers will benefit and they'll learn about you you can do you know that's kind of more of a that's that's basically the same thing is this guest post concept I'm trying to talk about who has your customers and then

what could you do for them that they would want they're excited to share for their customers like I got an email today where the guys okay know I love you can I just do a guest post you just link to my site a hundred times and you can just post him and promote it everywhere like oh my god ya know and so that that's the opposite of someone this kid I don't know how to pronounce his name it's like suck hard suck beef it's really it's an impressive name like I like complicated names and that

one might be a it's a top ten and so he emailed me and said hey I want to work for free give me one problem and I'll get it back to you within a week and it'll be impressive and I said this is something I need a list of every webinar software company out there and in a week he got me this list and I was like alright well he's like give me more and that's the way that it's easier for me to want to respond to him and help him and you know potentially their

hire him or build a relationship that way or promote him in the subsequent future and then four and five number four is look at your available network everyone's in a Facebook group you know a church group a soccer group or you know a LinkedIn group is there are you have people on your phone most people what they do when they start of business Anna is that they neglect their network and I don't mean to go spam your network but if you think you're doing something well it's more than accepted it's almost a discourage it's like

yeah you're doing a disservice if you're not telling your friends about something as an example do you tell your friends about a new movie yes do you tell about a new restaurant yes so if you're doing a business or read a blog post or something wouldn't you want to share with people if you actually think it's good if it's not good that's maybe on you but if you actually think it's decent or at least great you know decent degrade you're doing a disservice not to tell them as well and also you know there your network

for a reason because you value them but you're in their network because day value use so they care about you I mean I think that's something people completely underestimate they want to know yeah no I mean exactly and then lastly and I encouraged this last especially if you don't have a business that's large not even large if your business is not making money then don't do this one but its advertising and I'll speak to that as well where if you and what I mean by ads the two ads that I encourage is one niche ads

and so what that means is instead of going if you try to go and sponsor Tony's podcast or Twenties website that is gonna be way more expensive that anyone can afford it just says but maybe you can go and look at like smaller sites that like are similar to Tony right there's a lot of them out there they're not as good as Tony obviously but there's other sites out there that you can go out there and say hey I'll pay $100 can you let my link in your newsletter hey can I give you $100 and

then put my giveaway on your site or put my advertising it's not as large it's not a scalable but it's very effective and it's the best ROI you'll get for advertising which is niche sponsorships I've done this with every business and it always works number two once that's working you kind of tap that out in terms of amount of sites and people available then I would consider Facebook or Google advertising for me Facebook's worked well for others Google but Facebook has worked in terms of like you know the amount of volume of people they have

available but I would not do that until you're actually making money on both things yeah I mean I think advertising is one of those things that scares people because there's so many options so that's extremely helpful because that's like a good place to start when you're when you're at that beginning level yeah I mean and here's the ultimate thing when you're doing this marketing and this is what I think a lot of people kind of forget and this is what you don't have to even remind myself to which is when you're finding anything in marketing

that works do more of what works do more of what works and I think that's something that you may hear but I'll say three more times do more of what works you more of what works do more of what works and this is what people don't do they're like hey I'm doing Instagram ads how's that working out I don't know but you know my snapchat or maybe my blog blogging or maybe my like podcast interviewing is killing it but I'm still doing this over here really just focus on the things that are working and then

how can you do two times more five times like I was doing advertising on site point back in the day and I was doing advertising once a month and my advisor said don't want you doing twice a month I was like well cause a lot of bug people and it won't work it only works once a month he's like why have you done it twice a month No so then we did it twice a month and it worked just as well so we ended up going to four times a month and so it's now and

then eventually it got to a point where stop work is well only pulled back Who am I my point for you is find stuff that works and how do you just do more of that and ignore the other things at least for now especially with market great well thanks Noah this has been really great I think a lot of our listeners are kind of hungry for more even um so where should they go if they want to if they want more of you where should they go oh there's an effort to share don't worry about

that and so number one if you're looking to grow your business if you're making any money you want to grow it more go to Summa me calm to use our tools and you'll be able to grow your business for that if you want more of me I would probably go to okay dork comm and join my newsletter and that's pretty much the only thing you can do on the site but I also have content and things like there that I share about marketing and things that I just kind of find interesting so those are the

two of us I'm on Twitter at Nova cake and ka GaN so those probably the three best things and if you haven't signed up last one I got to do it last one if you haven't sent it for appSumo comm it's like a Groupon for geeks so if you're on your phone go to appSumo comment sign up but number one signal me number two okay dork there common number three EPs uma calm okay [Music] do you have the right mindset and skills to take your business to the next level business mastery is the only event

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the business mastery event at WWNT robbins comm the tony robbins podcast is directed by tony robbins hosted by A&E org and produced by Carey song Brooks Lauro is our digital editor Taylor Culbertson is our media coordinator special thanks to Diane Adcock for her creative review our website is Tony Robbins com forward slash podcast where you can listen to all of our episodes read articles and learn more about upcoming events copyright robbins research international