Scott Galloway: The Money SECRET Only 2% Of People Know (Stop Making This Mistake)

if you are doing a lot of side hustles it's very very difficult to be great at your main Hustle the only way you're going to build real wealth and Economic Security is to go all in on one thing that is greatness Focus none of this matters none of it means a thing if you can't have deep and meaningful relationships Scott is a professor of marketing at NYU Stern School of Business he's a best-selling author he has earned a massive following through his lectures podcasts and YouTube channel Scott Galloway how do we rewire our relationship with

money because most of us have a stressful relationship with money I think we should have a class called adulting in your senior year of high school that says my kid can do derivatives but I just figured out he doesn't understand the interest rate on his credit card you want to be good at money put down the facade and start talking to people about their Investments how much money they make what they do with their money how they save money women are correctly and justifiably especially young women Blowing by young men they have more discipline they

have higher EQ quite frankly they're just more mature if you want to score above your weight class economically romantically get out a big spoon and get ready to eat [ __ ] life isn't about what happens to you it's about how you respond to what happens to you what I tell young people is you can have it all you just can't have it all at once if you're actually getting into a committed relationship how do we start having healthy and effective conversations about money I think what really screws up relationships is not Financial mishaps it's

the number one Health and Wellness podcast J shett J shett the one the only J why are 30y olds today earning less than their parents at 30 and what are the challenges that that will create in the future sure so first off that's the first time that's happened in our nation's history and I think that is a fundamental breakdown in the social compact if you were to reverse engineer to what is the incendiary port on every social issue we face which turns a small cut into an opportunistic infection takes righteous movements but turns them more

Angry more polarized I think it's that the compact is broken down if your kids if you play by the rules you you work hard get some luck the basic goal is that or notion is that your kids will do better than you and when your kids aren't doing better than you it it creates shame and rage all around the household so I think this is really what if you will is kind of Ground Zero for what we need to fix in the United States now why has it happen the incumbents will say it's things like

globalization or network effects or income inequality with technology sort of but I would argue it's been a concerted effort by The incumbents Who ultimately um understandably weaponize government and put in place advocate for their own interests and end up passing uh social and fiscal policies that essentially have transferred wealth from Young people to old people let me give you some examples the two biggest tax deductions are mortgage interest rate and capital gains who owns homes and stocks people my age who makes all of their money through earned income and rents people your age or people

your staff's age covid 7 trillion into the economy 85% of it wasn't spent and it was all debt fueled so what did that do most of it ended up in the market which sent housing prices and stock prices skyrocketing it's great if you own a house it's great if you're an incumbent it's great if you already have stocks but if you're trying to get into the market it just take took up the price of everything we need churn when you bail out the baby boomer owner of a restaurant all you're doing is robbing opportunity from

the 26y old graduate of a Culinary Academy that wants her shot the reason I'm I get to live the life I lead and I have Economic Security is that in 2008 we bailed out the banks but we didn't bail out the economy and apple Amazon and Netflix uh were trading at somewhere between between eight and 12 bucks a share each and I I was coming into my Prime income earning years I bought those stocks and now they's somewhere between $180 and $700 a share where does a young person find disruption and churn because the general

Viewpoint now is that a virus killing a million people would be bad but baby boomers getting less wealthy would be tragic so we borrow The Young Person's credit card we run it up and we flush the market with capital and liquidity and bail out the Boomers also we have a system that is the demo and Democratic is a little bit is part of the problem that old people keep voting themselves more money 40% of all government spending goes to people over the age of 65 it's going to be over 50% right now currently the average

7-year-old is 72% wealthier than the average 7-y old 40 years ago the average person under the age of 40 is 24% uh less wealthy so there's this Trope that young people are entitled I believe they're titled to be enraged and that is pretty much every major fiscal policy is a transfer of wealth from Young income earners do either older people or owners so earners to owners young to old and as a result it's working it's champagne and cocaine for people of my generation not to say they don't have problems but young people are really struggling

education's more expensive and I'll wrap up here housing is more expensive so the primary means of starting to form a household the primary lubricant of upward Mobility education have exploded in cost so I think they're I think they're right to be really upset and I think it creates dissent and polarization and anger across our society looking at life as things we can control and things we can't control and hearing that there's valid reasons to be upset to be angry sure to feel pain what can an individual do today in order to transform that for themselves

well there's things on a macro level I mean the first isn't it sound stupid but vote right vote for people who are going to have some sort of fiscal responsibility vote for politicians who are going to do things like a child tax credit um vote for people who are going to try and uh create more housing permits so there's more housing if you're a graduate of an elite College that's grown its endowment 40-fold Harvard but it's only increased its Freshman Class 4% realize that firm or that organization is no no longer acting like a public

servant they're acting like a luxury brand my industry is really guilty of this when I applied UCLA just down the street or down the hill the admissions rate was 76% now the admissions rate is 9% and people my age like that because it's taking the value of their degree up but how many times sh have you heard people say I wouldn't get into the college I applied to if I applied to now well that means your daughter's not getting in so we need to do everything we can to try and counter this rejectionist lvmh exclusionary

strategy that has benefited the incumbents on an individual level you still have as much or more agency in America as a young person than any young person anywhere in the world you might argue well maybe someone with a good education in India with the kind of updraft of the growing economy there but on average you know you really wouldn't want to trade places with any other young person and while things are maybe more difficult for young people than they were for my generation especially my demographic a white heterosexual male born in California in the 60s

kind of Hit the lot right free education came of age during the internet but I do think young people in America have it better or have more agency than almost any young person in the world and you know what it is it's about getting certification it's about being kind it's about making alliances with people it's about workshopping your 20s it's about trying to find something you're good at could that you could be great at um it's a lot of hard work it's putting aside certain myths around in my opinion balance I I I can just

tell there were 10 or 20 years in your life where I'm guessing you did pretty much nothing but work there's not it's not easy in a competitive economy to be be outstanding and then surround yourself with people who make you feel good about yourself make sure that you're always mentally fit and then make small Investments when you're young both in terms of taking 3 5% of your income when you're a young person putting it out of your hands into lowc cost index funds such that when you're my age even if you don't go double platinum

or have a hit podcast you're still economically secure and also make those types of little investments in relationships because there's a Trope or a myth that very successful very wealthy people crawled over other people this populous Bernie Sanders Elizabeth Warren argument it's not the majority of very exceptionally successful and wealthy people are generally generally Jay High character people because the best way to get ahead is to put yourself in a room of opportunities even when you're not in that room physically you want to be the guy or gal that people talk [ __ ] about

positively behind your back right you want to be the person that thinks oh my firm is hiring and I know Jay is looking for a job and I like Jay I'm emotionally invested in his success I'm going to put him in a room full of opportunities so just as we talk a lot about the power of compound interest and how $1,000 a 22 can grow to be 80,000 when you're my age small acts of kindness looking out for people trying to do them a solid staying in touch recognizing that they you know are you all

right yeah I'm fine no really are you all right those types of Investments I just went to a 60th birthday of two good friends were my roommates we met when we were 17 and 18 freshman at UCLA and just like the the affection the bonding The Joy we've we've registered over the last 40 odd years you know it's just so incredibly rewarding and I I would instinctively not strategically but instinctively made those types of Investments when I was a young person and and also just now Scott for everyone who's listening or watching Scott turned up

at my house and saw Amazon deliveries outside and carried them into the home talking about High character and being thoughtful and sweet I was very touched by that you know you you definitely didn't have to do that and you went out of your way to pick them up and so you you definitely practice what you're preaching right now thanks for saying that no of course of course I I genuinely recognized it but I want to talk about both I want to talk about the softer internal mindsets and habits that you're speaking about I also want

to talk about the more strategic systematic focuses people can do let's let's start with the the more tangible I was talking to my team about this before you came because I love getting into everyone's heads about what's everyone worried about what's everyone struggling with what are we thinking about and one of the big things that came up was I don't know how to save like a lot of young people say this to me today like I don't even know what saving means anymore they've not been trained in it their education system let them down maybe

their parents keep saying save save save save save but their consumption is high yeah if someone's thinking about saving today how do they create a framework for healthy and realistic saving well the first thing you have to have something to say there's just no getting around it you've got to be able to make money and the best way to make a lot of money is by starting and making a little bit of money I coach a lot of young men and typically what I do on the first meeting is I tell them to unlock their

phone and I say I'm not going to judge you you know I'm on Tik Tok I watch porn I'm not you know I'm not easily offended here and we're going to find 8 to 10 hours a week out of your phone and it's ridiculously easy with young men to find eight or 10 hours in their phone between Robin Hood Twitter what what have you and we reinvest it and the first thing is we got to figure out okay for me it's physical fitness right away we're going to spend two to four hours a week getting

strong especially I coach mostly young men but I think one of the keys to mental health is feeling as if when you're a young man that you could walk into any room and if [ __ ] got real kill and eat everybody or outrun them I think that should be your goal I think it's instinctual I think it make you feel strong they make you feel Kinder the people who break up fights at bars are usually big strong men the second thing you have to start making some money I don't care if it's flipping on

your smartphone to be a lift driver a task rabbit going to CVS and stocking shelves even just a little bit of money gives you a taste for the Flesh of money and gets you thinking about different ways to make money and capital in a capitalist Society is intoxicating so we have to figure out a way to start making some money once we start making some money and we have a salary and we work at an organization 98% of people will spend everything that comes through their hands right it just you live in a society where

there are the most impressive people and the most impressive technology ever in the history of our planet have one Mission and that's to figure out a way to present with the ultimate offer at exactly the right time oh heading to coo for a a girls weekend wouldn't you like to upgrade from economy to economy Comfort oh only two of these rooms left how about upgrade now to the special spa package oh you just bought a pair of on running shoes what about these bomba socks it is nearly impossible for a young person to save money

if it comes through their hands if they get their hands on it you want to figure out a force savings so everything from like the acorns app that rounds up and puts the money a automatically into a lowcost Index Fund find out what government programs there are in your nation that where if you sign up the money is taken out of your check maybe it's matched by the government maybe it's matched by your employer 401K Ira Roth first thing you do find someone smart at your company talk to your Tax Advisor go on AI and

say what force savings mechanisms are most tax advantage that I can participate in at an early age because you really just need to take somewhere between between call it 3 and 5% of your income if you start when you're in your 20s and in the UK they round up from £4,000 a year to 5,000 there are tax deferred programs here such that you don't get clipped 20 30 40% each year so the first thing is I got to start making some money the next thing is I'm going to lean into my advantage your advantage when

you're young everyone has Capital when you're young you have more human capital you have more time than financial Capital so I'm going to lean into that advantage and if I can just figure out the discipline of getting a th000 2,000 5,000 bucks a year into one of these programs I'm not going to touch it I'm not going to think about it I'm not going to trade I'm going to focus on what I'm good at by the time you're my age you're going to be fine but the easiest way to do that is a force Savings

Plan you have agency make some money and immediately I don't care if it's you start off making a couple Grand a month as a task grait or whatever it might be I'm going to take 2 or 3% of it and find a program I said it never gets into my hands and goes into a lowcost diversified Index Fund should younger people today even aspire to own a home or is the American dream that version of it dead the goal isn't to be rich rich is the things you see wealth is what you don't see and

this is what wealth is ideally it's by the time you're 40 it's usually not but it needs to be by the time you're 65 or 70 because that that release of of economic anxiety freeze you up to focus on what is really important and that is deep and meaningful relationships one of the things I love you talk about in the book The algebra of wealth is you talk about the challenge we have with our goals the first is we set unrealistic goals and then they're super longterm so we say things to ourselves like well in

the next 12 months I'm going to save $112,000 and it's like we've never even saved $500 and and you talk about this need to set a goal of like this is how much I'm going to save this month like this is where I'm going to start and it's so interesting you talk about time and your work with young men because I think time is so interesting because I think today most people would rather finish their workday and we'd love to just switch on a show or Doom scroll on Tik Tok yeah and so there is

more time that could be engaged in creating other revenue streams Etc but what is really blocking us from doing that I think everyone knows they have time they know they want to make more money but there's something there that's just blocking us from getting activated what have you found that is so I can't speak for the whole population but generally speaking the lack of executive function that is the part of the brain that controls that is the prefrontal cortex the kind of gas on gas off the part of the brain that says stop playing video

games and start studying that is maturing later and later in boys it's somewhere between 12 and 18 months behind uh young women so many ways a senior in high school a woman who's applying to college and a young man who's applying to college senior in high school the woman is competing against a 16 and a halfy old and as a result fewer and fewer men are going to college and we're in an economy where 40 years ago one and three jobs needed a college degree now it's two and three women are correctly and justifiably especially

young women Blowing by young men uh they have more discipline they have higher EQ quite frankly they're just more more mature I say this in my own company I have a lot of young people disproportionate amount of young people working in my organization there's some very talented young men but I would describe them kind of as Dopey almost a little boyish I have some young women in my firm who could be the junior senator from Pennsylvania women are just maturing uh earlier so there's certain biological things that get in the way of men having executive

function I also think that there's so much Temptation I think there's a little bit of belief of kind of YOLO you know this is it it live for today I also think it's harder for them to save just cuz everything's so goddamn expensive so it's discouraging for them it's like okay I'm working my ass off and I can barely pay for my barely pay for my rent so this is a this is anecdotal evidence but at largely represents the economy when I got out of business school the average salary was 100 Grand you know I

went to quote unquote Elite business school I went to the high school the average house in San Francisco cost $280,000 so 2.8 times the MBA salary now the kids at Haw still in Elite business school incredible compensation average 200 Grand right out of business school but the average home in San Francisco is 2.1 million why because as soon as you have a house you become very concerned with traffic and you start showing up to local review meetings and making sure no new housing is built which is great if you already own a home going back

to the rejection of strategy but it's almost impossible now it's almost like saving for a home is out of my reach the travel industry has boomed and my thesis is that you have millions of young people who are going into their mating years and decided let's say for house let's saf for a house then pre pandemic a house is 290k post pandemic it's 420 interest rates from from 3% to 7% average mortgage went from 1100 to 2200 all of a sudden the American dream has become a hallucination of fantasy [ __ ] it I'm getting

a backpack and I'm going to do an Airbnb in Bangkok in travel stocks Hotel stock stocks Airline stocks have all boomed because I think young people have given up on the American dream of owning a home but circling back to your question it's I think recognizing you have agency realizing that this is hard it's hard work you're work in an economy build a kitchen cabinet of people who can advise you it's very hard to read the label from inside of the bottle uh you got to work hard there's just no getting around it I don't

care how talented you are Beyonce Works her ass off I mean it just people who want to be successful and influential after work work really hard and then what I would also say is that forgive yourself my first job out of college was Investment Banking I hit the lottery everyone was super impressed I hated it and I wasn't going to good at good at it and within two and a half years I was back living at home with my mother unemployed that almost kind of devastated me but I was my my kind of success comes

from my ability to endure rejection and move through it to mourn and move on so if you're in your 20s and you're thinking I'm not making a lot of money I'm having trouble like having a nice life I'm I'm not entirely sure what I want to do then you are exactly where you should be you're 20s are for workshopping forgive yourself but keep trying reach out to people for help show up get the easy [ __ ] right show up early be courteous be kind you know think about how do I get more certification and

then the moment you lock in on something that you're good at and could become great at go all in on it and I come from the attitude I'm assuming people want real Economic Security some people say Scott I'm not like you I don't want to live to work I want to work to live fine but have an honest conversation with yourself around what you need to make to have a reasonable life if you want to live in LA and you want to have a nice life style you just have to make a [ __ ]

ton of money there's just that's just the reality but if you say I'm not all about work then fine do you want to move to Santa Clarita do you want to move to the Inland Empire do you want to move to somewhere in Oregon fine but have a sober conversation with yourself what are your expectations and realistically what kind of commitment and tradeoff are you going to need to get there what I tell young people is you can have it all you just can't have it all at once I have amazing balance right now and

looking around I think you do but that's because I had almost none in my 20s and 30s and I I don't you know this whole life I I don't know much about you but the life I lead now when I'm in La I didn't even know it existed in my 20 because I'm like I need to make money and I I'm not I'm not exceptionally talented so the thing I can control is how hard I work and there's no getting around it it'll cost you some relationships it cost me my hair cost me my first

marriage and this sounds crass but it was worth it because now that I have kids now that I'm older I have a lot of balance so it's a sober conversation it's a kitchen cabinet it's forgiving yourself it's trying to find something you're good at it's a lot of things more than anything more than anything forgive yourself if things aren't working out in your 20s boss that's where you should be it very rarely do people come right out of college and go like this yeah so well said so much to unpack there Scott and thank you

for kind of giving us so many points to check with the first thing I want to ask you is should younger people today even aspire to own a home or is the American dream that version of it dead it's situational first off keep in mind the term the American dream was invented by the national realtor Association and the Real Estate Association that wants to keep pumping up the price and the commissions on homes if you live in a place like Los Angeles where I believe quotequote the yield that is the ratio the cost to run

something relative to the price to buy it it actually makes more financial sense for most people to rent here makes sense for most people in New York to rent you're in St Louis you're in uh Lancing Michigan it probably makes sense to try and save some money and buy and take advantage a first-time home buyers credits what have you so you want to find someone who quite frankly if you're not good at math is better at math than you and say does it make sense for me to buy a home because you might be better

off the co-host of my podcast raging moderates is a very successful woman her name is Jessica tarof she's the Democrat on the most popular cable news channel uh show called the five right it's four Republicans and Jess and she makes really good money her husband makes really good money and they've decided not to buy in New York because they think putting the money in the market will give them more financial security so greatness and great decisions are in the agency of others I would talk to people but don't feel as if you're a failure if

you don't own real estate because real estate right now as a percentage of GDP as a multiple on rents is at historic highs meaning that you really don't want to be house poor you really don't want to go all in because the national Realtor Association is telling you you're a failure if you don't own a home cuz the last thing you want to do is just have no money for nothing else the market corrects and your house isn't worth the debt on it that is devastating emotionally and financially and from a credit standpoint so it's

situational um at the same time there's no getting around the psychic there is some psychic income I remember you know before I got married I was thinking about I wanted to commit to somebody you buy a house you get a dog it's sort of these emotional commitments and also it's there is a certain pride of ownership I think it's situational where you are in life how much money you have the city you're in but buying a home is meant to be an enhancement to your life it's not a suicide Packa and it may not may

not be right for everybody yeah I think what it gave people as a symbol was something to pursue right we started talking about you go to college you get a degree you get a job get married you get a house you have kids like it became one of those temp Poole things and so now when you take it out it's almost like what should people be pursuing right if you got married you you got a good job you're working you're with your partner it's almost like people think they have to pursue it's almost like the

assumption that you have to have kids it's the same Assumption of oh we have to buy a house so what should people pursue instead financially when it comes to Financial Security the goal is um what I'll call Wealth the goal isn't to be rich rich is the things you see wealth is what you don't see and your Pursuit should be wealth or Economic Security and this is what wealth Is wealth is having passive income that's great G than your burn uh two examples I have a buddy who runs m&a for a bulge bracket Investment Bank

makes between $3 and $10 million a year depending upon the market because it's all current income he pays 50% taxes between his ex-wife his home in the Hamptons and his master of the universe life style that he feels he deserves he hasn't saved a lot of money and he spends most of it and I know that firsthand he has a lot of sleepless nights wondering what happens if the Music Stops he is not he is not wealthy my my father who is 94 between his pension from the Royal Navy Social Security and he owns Six

washing washer dryer machines in trailer parks where he goes and collects the money with his walker he makes $52,000 a year he spends 48 so he is saving money despite the fact that he's not working so his passive income is greater than his burn he is wealthy so you want to put yourself on a track to being wealthy you want to say realistically I can control how much I spend I just I've been coaching this couple living in San Jose and they're in their late 50s I talk a lot about young people and they say

Scott we're in our late 50s what do we do how much money do you have what's your house worth da da da and by the time they're 65 they're not going to have enough passive income to pay for their lifestyle I said well let's lean into our strengths here why are you in San Jose and they said well we've always lived here I'm like well okay your kids are gone and and you just mentioned you go to Costa Rica twice a year why wouldn't you try and cut your burn 40 40% and move to Costa

Rica and take that economic pressure away and sell your house here I think your kids would love to come visit you in Costa Rica so the question is put yourself on a path using basic math and what you really think you're going to need in terms of passive income such that at some point ideally it's by the time you're 40 it's usually not but it needs to be by the time you're 65 or 70 because that that release of of economic anxiety frees you up to focus on what is really important and that is deep

and meaningful relationships so the reason why I am so much happier over the last 10 years than I was kind of the first 45 years of my life is that economic stress was always there for me I was raised by a single Grant mother who lived and died as secretary I felt like there was a ghost following us around telling us we weren't worthy cuz we didn't have money between college student loans the do bomb crash and the great financial recession I just never had enough money to have passive income such that I was done

most and a lot of people never get there I got lucky sold my last company about 10 years ago for a lot of money now unless I really screw up again which I've done a couple times I can focus on my relationships the the resting blood pressure of a child in a in a low-income home is higher than the resting toolic blood pressure of a kid in a middle or upper income home I think the majority of divorces are not a function of infidelity or a lack of shared values it's those things one or more

of those things might happen and then the again the incendiary on it is financial stress 2third plus of of uh divorce filings are from women and we don't like to say this because we like to assume all men are predators and all women are virtuous but when a man is under Financial stress the reality is he becomes less less attractive as a mate and that can lead to real stress in the relationship so what you want to pursue if you're not pursuing a home you want to put yourself on a path you want to get

alignment with a partner you want to track your spending and put yourself on a path to some level of Economic Security of wealth by say the time you're 65 and if you're young and you're killing it instead of buying a bigger flat screen or a bigger TV or maybe a bigger house said what if I started saving 10 15 20 30% of my salary and I got wealth by the time I'm 40 or 45 because to be in America young and healthy and have passive income that's greater than your burn you're just going to have

a wonderful life so it's not acquiring anything it's getting to a point of Economic Security or wealth and that's a function of two things how much money you make such that you can save key to wealth is not how much you make it's how much you save and also the thing you can control is your burn you know I have a friend who ran a hedge fund it closed down he makes good money but not great money living in Tribeca with three kids needed a million bucks a year to live that life moved to Portugal

lives an amazing life with a beautiful home great food Child Care great education on 400 Grand a year I mean these are these are problems of privilege but that has taken the world of stress off his shoulders he now needs to make a very good living not an outrageous living so but surround yourself with smart people who can help you make these decisions but wealth is passive income that's greater than your burn first off recognize the majority of people telling you to follow your passion are already rich and they made their billions in Iron ore

smelting this is your job your job is to find your talent I have had a lot of women tell me they're not interested in dating me I have sent out thousands of emails to potential cents clients for my strategy firm I have pitched hundreds of venture capitalists on my way to raising money and the reason why I am wealthier than your average bear and and get to spend my life with someone who on a risk adjusted scorecard is exceptionally higher character and much more attractive than me is because I was never afraid to endure rejection

and we gamified saving money who and we had a whiteboard and we literally made a game out of it and the summer of 1985 I survived for 12 weeks on 78 bucks a week including rent because if I didn't save 3,000 bucks by the Fall I wasn't going back for my senior in college cuz I didn't have wealthy parents do you want healthy great-looking skin without spending a ton of time on it if you answered yes and let's be honest who wouldn't Dove men plus care body and face scrub is your ultimate hack for fls

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your shower when you bring up the word money most of us kind of go blank-faced we we want to reach for a stress ball we kind of you can just sense that it's uncomfortable to talk about it because we're almost reminded of all the bills stacking up and all of our expenses and we spent too much on Tik Tok shop this week and you know the reality hits and we kind of don't want to talk about it don't bring it up how do we get out of that stressful wiring and and you talked about it

even there with your background like I grew up in a family where we didn't have the healthiest relationship with money because we never had enough or we always had just enough and that was good enough and that was always like you know you're just looking at your bank balance sitting at zero all the time like how do we rewire our relationship with money because most of us have a stressful relationship with money well when you think about how they how they help people who are depressed It's a combination of talk therapy and if needed some

sort of you know pharmaceutical intervention I think mental illness or mental unwellness around money I think we absolutely need to one have more financial literacy I think we should have a class called adulting in your senior year high school that says my kid can do derivatives but I just figured out he doesn't understand the interest rate on his credit card so young people need a certain level of financial literacy also I encourage them to talk about money with their friends it's especially hard for men women are disproportionately evaluated based on their Aesthetics men are disproportionately

evaluated based on their uh economic vitality so for a guy to say hey do you you know I lost a [ __ ] ton of money in the market should I sell it do I get a tax right off that canotes weakness they're worried that they're less attractive there's actually something very British that you might relate to and that is British people the best grade I understand in Britain that everyone wants is you get really high marks but really low effort scores you're supposed to be accidentally rich I I'm so I'm such a baller and

I'm so great at what I do that I just accidentally slipped and fell on a ton of money no it's work you got to think about it you got to talk about it so I encourage people to talk to their friends and if you're comfortable this is how much money I'm making this is how much I'm saving this is you know taxation is really important well what if I move to Florida how much money would I save you know what if I buy a house now I heard there's something called 1031 exchange or I can

roll into my next property tax-free talk about money get get really good at it Roger fedro do you think he never talks about tennis talks about it all the goddamn time you do you want to be great at money most people say yeah I want to be great at money is anybody great at anything if I'm if I wanted to be an amazing evolutionary Anthropologist would I never talk about it would I never bring it up in conversation would I never want to talk to other people about evolutionary anthropology if you want to be good

at money put down the facade and start talking to people people about their Investments how much money they make what they do with their money how they save money what they do to try and limit their spending I talk about stoicism see if you can find a practice where you get reward or ad dopa hit from exercise or relationships gamify saving money my junior year at UCLA I was in a fraternity with mostly wealthy Jewish kids from the F uh from the valley and there were five or six of us out of 120 guys and

everybody knew who we were we didn't have any money we always l on our house bills everyone knew oh those are the poor kids right and one summer we all lived in the same apartment building and we gamified saving money who and we had a whiteboard and we literally made a game out of it in the summer of 1985 I survived for 12 weeks on 78 bucks a week including rent because if I didn't save 3,000 bucks by the Fall I wasn't going back for my senior year in college because I didn't have wealthy parents

and if you can gamify saving money with a partner especially a romantic partner that you can be totally transparent with God that's powerful we're building something we're going to save a ton of money can we save five or 7,000 bucks this year together and it's going to be 8,000 next year and then it's going to be nine and with compounding in five or six years which will go really fast we have 60 80 100 Grand and having kids is I think the most rewarding thing has been for me I was I didn't plan to have

kids but it was having kids with someone else and and raising what feel like pretty good citizens but a close second was building Economic Security with someone else we had total alignment right we're going to save we were transparent around our expenses we were generous with each other oh no you should do that there's a very unhealthy Dynamic sometimes in relationships and this is sexist but I found it to be true where the dude uses money to control his spouse and the spouse turns it into a game of how much money she can spend without

him knowing and fortunately that's getting flipped a little bit or it's equalizing because me women are doing so well women under the age of 30 are making more money in urban centers more single women own homes but there's still in my generation this very weird dynamic between the Sexes and money but going back to your original question talk about it understand it if you want to be good at it you got to get literate at it you want to bring it up with your friends and you going start learning I spent 4 hours a week

probably talking to other people about my economic well-being what tax loopholes there are where I should be investing I have a lot of real estate when interest rates come down at what point do interest rates get low enough where I should be pulling a second out and putting it in the market knowing if I have a 10-year mortgage over 10 years the Market's usually up about 7 to n% a year does that make sense right think about it all the time you're the average of your five friends you've seen that study body mass politics sports

teams but what's more interesting is one of those five people will be more economically secure much more economically secure than the other four despite not making a lot more money you want to know those behaviors and those characteristics and you want to model that person but this is something we all need to be more open about it doesn't make you less of a man you're not supposed to have a lot of money when you're young everybody screws up I've been broke twice in my 40s I was broke and that was really I was too ashamed

to admit that to anybody else it was like well you're supposed to be smart and great at what you do right so I think being a little bit more vulnerable being open about it and getting tips and you know kind of kind of rules of the road from other people talk about it yeah one of the studies I looked at and you just BR brought it up here was that in 2024 38% of couples reported financial problems as the cause for divorce yeah and it's what you talked about there of being able to talk to

your partner about money what's a healthy way to bring up the subject to connect with someone about it because as you said sometimes in the early dating phases it's really uncomfortable to talk about it because people feel you're a gold digger people feel that you're just after their money people are concerned that they don't have enough of it to talk about it but if you're actually getting into a committed relationship how do we start having healthy and effective conversations about money I would say transparency and a a budget you you know we kind of all

have that one that sort of got away I was deeply in love with this woman who was uh in her residency to be a surgeon and I was very serious about her and so I said look this is what I have and I kind of went through my assets how I plan to make money what money I had where i' lost money where I'd made money and then she was very transparent and said well you know my parents are wealthy so when they pass I'll get some money but right now I'll have as a ton

of debt and I think it made us feel really much closer to each other that kind of transparency so one would say it's transparency and I would say it's regular check-ins in a budget I think what really screws up relationships is not Financial mishaps it's surprises oh you've been day trading and you've been going into some stock that your buddy at work said was good and you lost you lost 20% of our savings but it happened a year ago and you're telling me now so I think it's a good idea on a regular basis not

only sit down and talk about budget but just say this is what's going on with us financially and go through kind of spending and just being very transparent with each other and also you know not hiding the ball right I think that sometimes um people don't want to talk about a financial hit they've taken like I said I think the thing that screws up marriages is not is not only financial stress but it's surprises about financial stress Jesus you've been spending this much money on this and you were trying to hide it from me we

lost 30% of our savings in this one stock and you didn't like I check in with my partner and I say this is this is where we are this is what I'm thinking I don't make a big investment without running it by her first she always says yes but I want her to know because that way when it if it doesn't go well it was our it it's our problem it's our fault so transparency talking about it and a budget that you review together yeah yeah and that's that's great advice and I think that transparency

point is is so huge because you're so right surprises in any way in relationships are the biggest trust breaker 100% And and you're so right that it's it's not even that that person had an issue with what you were doing it's why you didn't tell them yeah that that's what really breaks it down you talk a lot about investing in focusing on your talents not your passions and I think for a long time we've kept hearing this language around find your passion Follow Your Passion Chase your passion and yours is well no talent talent talent

yeah a lot of first of all let's talk about why talents over passions and second of all a lot of what I hear is Jay I don't even know what my passions are and I don't know what my talents are yeah where do I go so first thing why talents over passions and second what do I do if I don't know what my talents are yeah we get two types of speakers at NYU really accomplished impressive people and billionaires we've just decided once you have three commas around your net worth you have insight into life

and they always end their speech or most of the time end their speech with the following advice which I think is just terrible advice for young people follow your passion first off recognize the majority of people telling you to follow your passion are already rich and they made their billions in Iron ore smelting this is your job your job is to find your talent such that you could be in the top 10% within 10 years and then maybe in the top 1% in 15 or 20 years and this is the hard part or the important

part in an industry that has a 90 plus per employment rate which by the way is 90 plus% of Industries young people's passions are often conflated with their Hobbies I would have liked to have been quarterback for the Jets I have a pretty decent arm a good playing good field division I'm 63 190 I thought I was out of Central Casting to be the quarterback for the Jets once I got to UCLA I was fortunate to know this is what real athletes look like and you're not one of them so the majority of people don't

end up and what the quote unquote their passion is because what they realize is that's a hobby art DJ modeling Athletics nightlife you know designing a jewelry line the passion Industries attract so much human capital that it drives down the return on your human capital there are 180,000 actors and actresses in Sag Afra these are the most talented creatives in the world and it's not easy to get a union card last year 83% of them didn't qualify for health insurance cuz they did make $223,000 so recognize that if you're able to find something you're really

good at and it's in an industry with a 90 plus employment rate this is what's going to happen passion comes from Mastery and the economic accoutrements of Mastery of an industry now no one no one grows up thinking I'd like to be I'm passionate about tax law but if you have the skills and the discipline to get a law degree and you understand the intersection between the law and economics and you know how to handle clients the best tax lawyers fly private and have a larger selection set of mates than they deserve in the top

10 or 20% to have those sorts of accouterments in a vanity industry you have to be in the 0.1% so I don't want to crush anyone's dreams if you want to be a DJ or you want to be an athlete fine but ring fence it and say unless I get flashing green lights that I'm definitely in the top 1 % and you'll know if you're the next messy people are going to tell you you'll know if all of a sudden you start getting invited to Vegas to DJ and people are willing to pay you to

DJ you'll know you'll know pretty fast but if you don't get those green lines saying you're going to be in the 1% really fast maybe Workshop something else that's not in the romance industry and try and become goodg great at it the guy who's installing my soapstone counter is the kind of the the marble guy or the granite guy in marabon this is a Iraqi immigrant uh we got to know each other he told me about what he does knows everything about marble knows everything about it goes to the quaries can talk about the veining

and everything uh immigrated from Iraq about 18 years ago started working for a guy got super into it he makes 2.3 million pounds a year Topline he himself makes 800,000 pounds a year as the soapstone marble guy and he's become passionate about it the relevance the accouterments the economic security and this is what you become passionate about Jay you become passionate about taking care of your kids you become passionate about helping your parents out you become passionate about taking really nice vacations with your partner anything that provides you with that stuff you're going to become

passionate about so what I would suggest is Passion comes from Mastery artisanship ninja likee command of something and also something that provides you with the economic security than in capitalist Society affords you an amazing life so find your talent that's your job if you're good at something you can become great at it in an industry with a high employment rate trust me trust me you're going to find passion and and for those people who are sitting there going well I don't know what I'm talented at like I I don't even know what my talent is

I don't really have anything that anyone's ever validated noticed recognized I'm pretty average at everything where do they start I think you want to build a kitchen cabinet of people who you can sit down at any job first off don't let perfect be the enemy of good just start when I was 18 I thought I was going to be a pediatrician chemistry disavowed me of that thought I was going to be an athlete when I was 15 UCLA disavowed me of that thought I was going to be investment banker 22 disabused me of that thought

I was going to be a health care consultant when I was in business school and I thought I I don't know if I'd be any good at this I ended up in strategy and then analytics I didn't know what strategy and analytics were so try stuff be honest with yourself if you don't give up at the first sign of I don't like it well that just might be work but you'll start to get feedback on what you're good at and what you're not good at and workshop it keep investing recognize it's hard to be great

at anything but you'll probably get a feel I mean at some point you recognized you're a good Storyteller you have a nice voice you're good at this right and I imagine there was some things along the way you recognize I'm not that good at this I'm trying hard and I'm not that good I tried really hard to be a good investment banker I had no natural skills at it I just wasn't good at it and then when I got into Consulting and I took data and could frame it into a story where CEOs and CMOS

would listen to me and say you know bring in bring in that I started a strategy from called profit bring in them see what they think I'm like wow we're good at this maybe even we can become great at it so another again group of kitchen cabinet people who can talk to you people who can advise you get started Workshop okay it's not the perfect job I'm not sure I'll be passionate about it no no no if you can find something better great until then get in the game see where the opportunities are and you'll

start getting Market feedback on what you're good at or not good at and you'll start to click in wow I really I'm pretty good at this and ask people around you ask for reviews the compensation I think I provide my my younger employees with I'd like to think I'm good at this maybe I could be better as I talk about it it's not only monetary what young people need is feedback if you are in a position as a boss to say you know what you're great with new employees you make them feel welcome well should

I consider a career in recruiting or HR you're great with clients Jesus Christ can you sell you like to drink you're ridiculously obnoxious in a funny way people want to go out with you when they're in town boss you should be in sales you should be selling and you got a decent IQ you should be selling database software for Oracle or CRM software for Salesforce cuz you're going to make a half a million bucks by the time you're 30 taking people out and establishing relationships get feedback Workshop stuff but you'll start to absorb stuff but

you're never going to find out you're good at Cricket unless you pick up a out you know you just not going to find out so try as many things as possible surround yourself with people and give you an honest feedback and keep workshopping stuff don't be afraid don't you know again forgive yourself if you're not a good investment banker you're not cut out to be a doctor you're not going to be an athlete that's okay it's out there just keep showing up keep showing up keep trying and you will hopefully find that thing I don't

want to say it's a guarantee I think some people never find anything they're great at but in this economy you should be able to find something you're at least good at yeah I I appreciate what you were sharing about the diverse roles you've had and again your montra forgive yourself and I look back at life as thinking that it would be about finding or discovering the thing and I realized it was so much more about collecting and connecting that's right right it was like collecting ideas collecting skills and then at one point they all seem

to connect even though you know in the famous words of Steve Jobs you can't connect the dots looking forward you only can looking backwards and so now when I look back at my life I'm like oh yeah I remember doing work experience when I was like 15 years old and I was told to code call 300 companies and I had no idea what a code call was or what we were selling but I was trained to do it and it gave me an amazing experience to deal with rejection and out of the 300 companies called

I think 297 said no but the three that said yes just gave me this exhilarating feeling and then I worked at Morrison stacking shelves and doing you know extra uh database management work in the warehouse and I remember what overtime felt like and I knew I got paid 1.5 times as much when I when I worked at extra and I was like oh okay that's what overtime feels like and then I remember working in retail and I knew if I could sell a card to the customer to collect points then I I would get10 extra

on every card and it was just fascinating to me that all of those experiences and then I worked as a consultant at Accenture too and again I don't think I was that great a consultant by their definition even though I did very well inside the organization I picked up so many skills when it came to negotiation presentation deck building understanding the needs interests and concerns of our clients and what they were trying to achieve and none of that was my purpose yeah none of that was my field of Excellence I was not great at any

of those things but all of those skills have become so valuable today I love the way you say that because when I look back on investment banking it wasn't a failed experiment because it had taught me attention to detail it taught me to get up early and put on a tie it taught me sort of how to read a room it taught me how to write a proposal it taught me a little bit about the the credit markets cuz I was in fixed income what you said about being in the services industry working jobs at

Morrison that is really important because it gives you a sense for one no one owes you a living uh showing up working hard getting along with people developing a sense of grit the job you were talking about the sales job I think everyone should be in a job where they endure they deal with the public because they realize that a lot of people aren't nice and you have to navigate that or they're just not having a bad day or there just not having a good day but also the and this is the key to my

SE success is my ability to endure rejection you know if you want to score above your weight class economically or romantically get out a big spoon and get ready to eat [ __ ] because I applied to Nine Business Schools I got into two I have I in high school I ran for sophomore Junior and senior class president I lost all three times and based on my track record I decided to run for student body president where I went on to wait for it lose I have had a lot of women tell me they're not

interested in dating me I have sent out thousands of emails to potential clients for my strategy firm I have pitch hundreds of venture capitalists on my way to raising money and the reason why I am wealthier than your average beay and and get to spend my life with someone who on a risk adjusted scorecard is exceptionally higher character and much more attractive than me is because I was never afraid to endure rejection always had the ability to endure rejection more and move on so if you aren't willing to endure rejection if you aren't willing to

take those types of risks my current partner I met at the Raleigh Hotel in South Beach she was there with a friend and another guy and I promised myself I was going to speak to her I was very drawn to her before I left went out to get my car at the valet got angry at myself went back walked right up to them and said hi I'm Scott where are you guys from and now you know our oldest son's middle name is Rob you got to be willing to endure rejection and here's the thing most

people aren't most people will never invest in their own company they're too scared to lose money most people will not go up and speak to a stranger this is something I forced my boys to do when we're out I'm like you got to speak to at least one stranger my oldest one has no problem with that my youngest has a little bit more of a difficult time but the ability to open the ability to call somebody when you were calling don't call me again so what I think you're saying is I should check back in

2 weeks right I mean I can't imagine how much [ __ ] you must have even starting a podcast right I mean it's not I got to start one with a co-host who already had a following like you're some kid out of Accenture starting a podcast right I mean it's just a lot of rejection yeah we sent personalized letters and videos to a 100 people that we really wanted on the show and every single one of them said no in year one and Over The Last 5 Years every single one of them have been on

the show B three maybe yeah and and it just showed me that there was such a need to just be okay I mean I have a list of I everyone always ask me who's your ideal podcast guest and I'm a big soccer fan we were talking about football earlier and I've supported Manchester United since I was a kid and Cristiano Ronaldo is my goat and you know I have a list I have a history of DMS to Cristiano Ronaldo that he has never seen let alone responded to and I can't wait for the day he

sees them you're just following the wrong Club buai K Saka or Cole Palmer I think they would come on the show you got to go Arsenal or Chelsea that's your fault yeah that's my fault that's my fault it's the pain I'm asking for the pain uh but no I I couldn't agree with you more and I love this Mantra that you keep repeating forgive yourself and it's such a powerful one and you are going to make mistakes you are going to break things you are going to get wrong maybe even one of those clients is

never going to want to work with you again and that's all going to happen and I think we live in this protective space of like I never want to get anything wrong I never want that person to ever say oh I was too pushy or too nudgy and it's like well they might and they probably will anyway someone will yeah and is that worth letting go of this amazing life that you envision and what you want to create the only thing you can or the only thing I feel like I can guarantee any young person

is a certain amount of joy and a certain amount of tragedy in their life and the ratio of the two is a function of a lot of things mostly when and where you're born but what you want to do is try and set yourself up for so many deep and meaningful relationships that those ratios of joy to tragedy are are much greater so forgive yourself but there's some great research my colleague at NYU Adam alter has a joint appointment at the business school and at the um in the psychology department he's done a ton of

great research on end of life he goes into paliative care facilities and he interviews people on their biggest regret rets and people get a lot of perspective at the end they're never going to walk on the beach again they're never going to hang out with their you know really spend time with their loved ones they're never going to work again never going to go to a sporting match what have you never you know take their dogs for a walk again so they don't have a lot to lose lot of perspective and their biggest regrets kind

of come down to three things uh in reverse order number three they wish they'd spend more time with their friends number two they wish they'd L led the life they wanted to lead not life their church or their family wanted to lead or Society was you know telling them to act certain way but their number one regret is they wish they'd been less hard on themselves they wish they'd been kinder to themselves because when you look back on your failures made a bad investment this person didn't love me back as much as I love them

I got fired I had a business fail when you look back at the end and you have real perspective you're going to be more upset about the way you responded than what actually happened to you life isn't about what happens to you it's about how you respond to what happens to you and recognize that emotion the present value of emotion is enormous in the moment your disappointment you're going to look back and think the only thing you're going be upset about is how upset you were at it on the flip side when things are going

really well also recognize a lot of that isn't your fault you got lucky you're in the right place at the right time you had someone take an interest in you in work and promote you you had a stock Skyrocket are you a great investor no you're lucky and you're never more prone to a big mistake professionally or personally than after a big win because you start believing it's you and it the time at when you have a great investment you have great relationships what you want to do is try and pull in your horns a

little bit and be a little bit humble and as grateful as you can can be recognizing luck has been on your side and like I said if you want to lose a lot of money start believing that your great year in the market is because you're just really good at investing and you should lever up because you're that smart no you're sticking your chin out I love that advice especially the humility part and it's so interesting yeah I remember reading a study that said that most Founders who exit they make their worst startup Investments for

the next two years that follow their exit and it's that same feeling of you start thinking it's you I wanted to ask you a lot of people right now are trying to decide between whether they double down on their career at the company they're at or the organization they're at or have multiple revenue streams or side hustles and things on the side how would you encourage people to evaluate where they put their efforts so another thing I've gotten [ __ ] on Tik Tok for I hate side hustles so if you're in a side hustle

that means a side hustle is a temporary means of investigating something else should become your main Hustle the way you get wealthy in Economic Security is you find a professional activity that you're good at that you become great at and you go all in on it because the difference success is in the last 10% so the guy or gal that applies 90% versus the guy or gal that applies 100% the latter is going to get promoted faster get options Awards just make more money have recruiters calling them success is that extra umph if you are

doing a lot of side hustles it's very very difficult to be great at your main hustle so fine if you don't like your main household but you need it for health insurance you need it for a base and you want to in investigate other stuff but recognize the only way you're going to build real wealth and Economic Security is to go all in on one thing and I've never been successful I have two kind of I'd say complexions professionally the first is I have balance I'm working 40 hours a week decent lifestyle that for me

is called losing money I've never been able to aggregate wealth kind of having balanced in my life and then there's a point in my life and I'm not proud of this but especially in my early years were stressed out working all the time hard on my fitness hard on my relationships that's when I'm usually making money the marketplace is competitive it Demands a tremendous amount of you but it's just it's I think it's more or less okay how do I have a sober conversation with myself how do I get forward fast the best companies in

the world I find or the most aspirational companies are the ones that let you go flat out that say to you Accentra says to you the following go flat out here go just I mean okay have a hobby have a relationship fine but go flat out here and we're going to give you your parents life at the age of 30 or 35 those are generally the best companies in the world some people decide they don't want that and they want to do something they're excited about fine or passionate about I get it but if you're

that guy or gal with three or four different side hustles you aren't going to be wealthy that's a temporary means of finding your main hustle that means your main hustle isn't working but 110% on anyone you know Bill Gates didn't have a side hustle myangelo didn't have a side hustle maybe they needed a maybe myangelo needed a side job to pay for but at some point she went all in on PO poetry and writing and oration that is greatness Focus yeah I think that's such a great reminder and I remember looking at something a few

years back which was saying if someone was going to invest let's say me and you were going to invest a 100 hours into someone's development how would they split it between what they're good at what they're average at and what they're bad at yeah and the majority of people would say 30 30 30 right like 33 33 33 and some people will say oh well maybe I'll put 20 into what I'm good at 20 into what I'm bad at and then the rest into what I'm average at 60 in the middle and going back to

your point the most successful play people in the world will say 100 z0 or 80110 because they know that if they invest that much energy in something they're bad at they'll only ever be average at it and if they invest in something they're average at they'll only ever be okay at it but if you invest in what you're good at you will become great and I think we've lost well not lost I don't think we've ever had that Focus because you graduate at 21 you know from a regular degree and then you never think you

have to learn again I think there is a sense of we don't really iiz what good to Great Looks like because you never ever have to grow again according to the way the education system set up in in the belief system at least what have you noticed about people who in an organization in a company go all right I'm going to be great here what do they do differently what do what do they build mindset wise and also physically so we had at L2 which is the business intelligence firm I sold 2017 we tracked everyone

a lot of data and found so and this isn't the Hallmark version of of HR but I found generally speaking you have five or 10 employees that add 120% of the value and everyone else is negative -2 now that's not to say they're not important but they require a lot of management a lot of attention they're good not great you can't just scale with great players because great people know they're great and they demand a lot of equity and compensation but when we identified that quote that kind of dozen Superstars we said what do these

people have in common and the three things we found in common were uh one they had gone to Elite universities and I hate saying that um but they had generally gone to really fantastic schools two they had Athletics in their background competitive Athletics and three and I didn't write this down anywhere they were almost always women so a female from Yale who was on who was a gymnast there or a diver that was an automatic hire I'm not saying we didn't hire someone unless you had sport but we generally look for people had two of

the three we also hired men but those were the three things we found people who had had some sort of competitive sport in the background or had come from an enough adversity that they had to show a certain amount of grit and willingness to break through hard things people who pushed who had pushed themselves really hard you know I wrode crew in college and crew is basically who is willing to endure more pain and when I had my first job at Morgan Stanley I realized I wasn't as skilled I did poorly academically uh and I

wasn't as skilled as my peers so I thought okay what can I control every Tuesday Morning I'd come to work at 9:00 a.m. and I wouldn't leave till Wednesday night at 5:00 or 6 p.m. I'm like it was 23 I was super fit super strong I didn't have a relationship I didn't have dogs I'm like yeah I can work 36 hours straight and I could control that and now is that healthy do you want to be doing that when you're 33 or 43 when you have kids no but I could do that when I was

young that grit that perseverance so I look for I look for people who have overcome obstacles and also you want them to act like owners and you'll get a sense for that and that's why kind of the Silicon Valley mentality has worked in the sense that they give everyone Equity but people and you notice it people who see a you know a a rapper on the ground and they pick it up people who are thinking about clients people who are trying to sell stuff people who are at a at a social event and know someone

who's good recruit that person and then come up and say Jay this guy's the best video editor in the world he's just he's just World he's just he's a great athlete I don't care what we put him to work on she's just going to be amazing people who act like owners and then when you identify those people your job as a manager is to sit them down and say okay this is my path for you I've started a business intelligence firm I'm very capitalist about it I used to sit sit these 12 people down and

say the following I've started this business intelligence firm I'm going to build it to 20 million in revenues these firms go for between six and 10 times revenues that's somewhere between 120 and 200 million I'm giving you 1% of the company you're going to be here four years you're going to work your ass off between if we have this liquidity event you're going to be make between a half a million and two million a year in equity don't go anywhere if I do well you're going to do well and I would literally try and paint

that accurate a picture I wanted to make sure that the 12 best people or the kind of the top were sort of nailed to the floor they just couldn't leave they're like oh this is like I can't this the opportunity here is just too too good but a bit of a word salad they demonstrate grit they act like owners and also generally speaking um want to help other people good culture carriers you know there are some people that are so good and they're competitive I've had a little bit companies are sort of the Island of

Misfit Toys people who are unusual or some quite frankly sometimes have some mental health issues I'm like yeah if they had it all they'd be a Google we're going to figure it out for them because are that talented but act like owners good to other people and have demonstrated something in their background that shows grit yeah yeah I love those I it took me a while as I was developing my team and I I really feel like the people I have right now embody a lot of those characteristics that you're mentioning and I had to

grow as a leader in order to attract those individuals and it wasn't something that it was like oh you're just not finding the right PE people there was work I had to do in in who I had to become not just character-wise but quality and ability wise in order to attract that and also being able to nurture that effectively as well and so I think as much as so much of what we've been sharing today is about the person who's trying to work their way up so much of this is for leaders as well in

order to how to adapt and be different I wanted to Scot focus on what you were mentioning a couple of moments ago about the paliative care and you know people coming to the end of their life and you know a lot of people do feel at the end of their life I wish I didn't work that hard yeah you know I I shouldn't have put too much energy into work and and almost sometimes I feel like that's a really easy thing to say at that time because it almost doesn't matter anymore whereas when you're living

it kind of does matter it comes back to what you said earlier I remember saying to myself and it goes back to what was that language you used about having a sober in conversation with yourself sober conversation sober conversation with yourself I remember many sober conversations with myself and one of them was like I can either feel like I'll have the myth of balance for the next 10 years or I can work my absolute socks off for the next three years and then be able to make more sense of everything and I chose the latter

one and that three years probably looked like more like six years or whatever it was but that sober conversation was so powerful for me because I had to give up that myth of this perfect balance and you've kind of alluded to that in in a in a lot of this conversation today someone could be listening to both of us and just be like yeah well I don't want to be that successful I don't want to be that competitive I don't I don't want it to be that way uh I just want to have a good

life I want to have a simple life how does that work with your philosophy and thoughts look this is my way it's not the right way well the advice I'm giving is there's some proximity bias I teach it in Elite business school and when I survey these kids and I I asked them what they expect to be making in 5 to 10 years they all expect to be in the top 80% of them expect to be in the top 1% of income earning households by the time they're 35 I'm like okay unless you're a genius

and crazy talented you're just going to have to work your ass off and then when they use words like balance I'm like come on now having said that some people don't want to live to work they want to work to live that's fine God love you some people say and I get these people on my podcast Scot or they call in I just want to be a good citizen work work a decent amount uh have a good relationship with my spouse and coach little league and have a nice life and be an active member of

my church I'm like great you can do that in America that's not going to work in LA or New York or I mean you got to move to a lower cost neighborhood and there's nothing wrong with that that's there's a lot of really happy people you know the average household income now is 68 or 70 grand and I bet a lot of those households are very happy they find strength and reward other places that's absolutely there's nothing wrong with that the majority of the young people I speak to expect to be making a lot of

money or they say you know I I don't need to make a ton of money I just want to live in New York have a nice place be able to have a couple kids I'm like okay that's a million bucks a year I'm not talking about the way the world should be I'm talking about the way the world is and if you expect to live in an American city and be able to send your kids you know ensure you can abor absorb a health shock give your kids the kind of life you want take nice

vacations it's just a lot of the reality is it's just a crazy amount of money and you can control you want to lower your burn move to uh place for lower cost of housing lower cost of living more power to you but the majority of the people I know in their 20s and 30s and again this is proximity biased because the people I hang out with expect to have a lot of influence and a lot of Economic Security and we all know that guy or gal who is in great shape great relationship with their parents

it just seems to rain money on them as fit has a food blog and donates time at the asbca assume you are not that person m right assume that you probably have to go all in on something if you want to I mean La living in New York you're just going to have to be relatively successful to stay here you don't have a Birthright to live in Los Angeles or New York or London and again it comes back to that sober conversation are you willing are you really willing to make the trade-offs if not you

can be happy in LC Texas most people can um and maybe you should be thinking about that but these but people who expect to have a reasonable life in these big cities okay let's be honest about what that's going to take Scott thank you for being so uh transparent and honest today this has been so useful insightful and I really appreciate your cander and honesty with with so much of this because I think you are right that we can have really unhealthy false expectations and they can be reaffirmed and we can be on a wild

goose chase for the rest of our lives or we can get what you're doing which is just straight great talking really simple insightful advice that hopefully gets people having that sober and honest conversation with themselves it's really refreshing uh I think that it's very exciting to tell people to go chase stuff and and do things and then helping people actually self-reflect and figure out whether they're ready for that and what that means and what that looks like uh is is so important and I wanted to We End every episode of on purpose with a final

five and these questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum okay although I will probably break my own rule okay so Scott Galloway these are your final five uh the first question is what is the best wealth advice you've ever heard or received or given find your talent uh second question what is the worst wealth advice you've ever heard or received Follow Your Passion uh question number three how would you define your current purpose to raise loving Pat iotic men beautiful uh question number four is it possible or how is it

possible to create peace with money money is the means the ends is deep and meaningful relationships and money should just provide an absence from the stress that can get in the way of forming and nourishing deep and meaningful relationships it's the means not the ends I want to unpack the last two answers because I think there's some really interesting material there so it's so strange isn't it so I'm sure you've heard this story that I mean it's been told for years about the um the the fisherman and the businessman yeah yeah right you've heard the

story a million times it's like the the fisherman goes to the businessman and the businessman looks at the fisherman and goes what do you do all day and the fisherman says well you know in the morning I go fishing and then the afternoon I have a siesta and then I hang out with my family and my friends and I drink a little and then I go to sleep and do it all over again M and the businessman saying like that's what I want to get to it's just that I built this business and then sold

it and did this and now I'm trying to come around like it's a cute story and but in reality it's I don't know whether it Stacks up but there's this idea that people have that if I just want to spend time with people why would I work so hard but you just said actually sometimes if we don't have money it can actually block our relationships in what ways does scarcity or a lack of financial we create issues in our relationships well one if you're a man women aren't going to be that attracted to you women

are attracted to men for three reasons number three kindness number two intellect and the fastest way to communicate intellect is is humor but the number one source of attractiveness in men is the ability to Signal resources you don't even have to have resources at a point but you have to demonstrate a plan that you're smart you're hardworking and you have a plan but there let me ask you a question do you have a number where you're like okay this is my number and that's what I'm that's what I'm aiming towards no okay so I did

have a number and I actually think it's sort of healthy because what I became addicted to was relevance and money and when I sold my last company I sold my last company for 160 million bucks and I thought I'm going to go raise $3 to $400 million start a private Equity Fund raise funds two and three I have the contacts I'm in The Sweet Spot because I'd like to be a billionaire Scott Galloway billionaire just had a nice ring to it for me and then I had a friend passed away at a very young age

and it kind of sent me into a little bit of introspection and I thought all right I've hit my number unless I really screw up again if I get four to 6% on the money I have I can live the life I want I'm like well okay why do I need more money I'm on this hamster wheel well I've decided my worth as a man is a function of having more and what you realize and it's hard to get off this hamster wheel and money is just an ink in your pen and it can help

you write new chapters it can make certain chapters burn brighter but it's not your story and this is a really good problem to have but I think we have a virus in this nation amongst the super wealthy of hoarding money where they decide to keep they want more money they want more money I don't what Daniel Conan the economic historian teaches us is that above a certain amount you get no incremental gain for money you don't get less billionaires are no less happy than millionaires but they're no happier and what I've decided is once I

hit my number you know I love data every year I look at how much money I made and I either spend it all or I give it away and I want to be clear I'm not a virtuous person I love hanging out at the Beverly hotel I love taking my friends to Aspen I spend a [ __ ] I spend money like I'm a gangster in the 50s just diagnosed with ass cancer I love spending money and if that sounds obnoxious it is and then anything above that I give it away and I don't do

it to be a good person I do it because it makes me feel masculine it makes me feel patriotic it makes me feel important and I just enjoy it I didn't I didn't give away a dollar until I was 40 and now I'm trying to catch up and I really enjoy it it's almost like consumption for me but having a number is really powerful because you can say what's required to get to that number and then just as importantly once you get to that number get off the hamster wheel cuz this is the fear and

this is what I was headed towards I'm an atheist I think at some point I'm going to look into my kids eyes and know that our relationship is coming to an end but it's empowering for me it makes me think about what I want at the end and what I was barreling towards was the following having a lot of money having a decent amount of influence but never having really been in the moment or have the depth and meaning that I could have had amongst my partner my sons and my friends and that all of

a sudden I thought you know when my friend passed I thought at the end you know you could just tell his relationships were everything the money meant [ __ ] nothing it was all about the relationship I thought okay the money has to be a means to the ends and that is deep meaningful relationships but be careful it can turn into a suicide pack it can turn on you and you become so focused on the affirmation of strangers which I'm addicted to become addicted to money that you spend way too much time thinking about additional

money success relevance and it comes at the cost of your relationships I know so many incredibly impressive successful people who don't get along with their kids have a shitty relationship with their partner it's like well what's the point of all this so I think it's healthy to have a number and then to be very disciplined once I have that number I'm going to enjoy the money or I'm going to give it away you don't need to be a billionaire you're not going to be any happier beautiful answer uh before we go to the fifth and

final question I want to unpack the answer from before about you mentoring young men I feel like a lot of young men that I speak to listen to read comments from hear from you you see a lot of pressure a lot of men these days feel a lot of pressure and a lot of stress and some of them feel left behind forgotten confused as to their place in society based on so many other things at the same time you're coming at from the angle that they need to take responsibility there needs to be discipline there

needs to be accountability how do you what would you say to any young men who are listening right now watching right now who feel a lot of pressure who feel a lot of stress how would you address that well first off just just the reality of the situation globally no group has ascended faster than women the last 30 years more women are seeking tertiary education uh globally now than men and when you look at some Nations that don't like women seeking a tertiary engagement that really that really says something three women graduating from college every

two over the next 5 years uh no group has fallen further faster in America than young men four times as likely to kill themselves Jay you're in a morg with five people who have died by Suicide four of them are men three times more likely to be addicted 12 times more likely to be incarcerated we don't have a homeless problem we have a male homeless problem we don't have an incarceration problem we have a male incarcerate we don't have an opioid EP epidemic we have a male opioid epidemic a lot of the jobs that they

relied on with thought a college education have been outsourced the maturing later there's a general sense that there's a lack of empathy for young men if you had any special interest group killing themselves at four times the rate as to control group you'd move in with programs but because the advantage I received my father received there's a lack of empathy so the first is to recognize I think that it is tough out there for young men and to forgive yourself what I tell young men when I back to the thing about the font the phone

uh start getting into fitness two start making some money and the third thing we didn't talk about you have to get out of the house every day and be in the company of strangers building something bigger than yourself I don't care if it's work I don't care if it's Church a sports League a nonprofit you have to be in the company of strangers because here's the risk and what's happening to young men we have a new species developing of humans specifically young men who are sequestering from society they're asocial they're more prone to conspiracy theory

and they are essentially becoming totally isolated almost like a new form of asexual uh Homo Sapien and you can see how it's happening because the most talented well-resourced people in the world are trying to convince young men that they don't need friends they can go on Reddit or Discord they don't need to put on a tie or go through the rejection of interviewing they can trade stocks or crypto on Robin Hood or on coinbase they don't need to get in shape show humor endure rejection go out have a plan shower for God's sakes approach strange

women be persistent show show manners affection follow up because you got up porn so we have a group of men who've been convinced they have can have a reasonable fact assimile of life on a screen in an algorithm and we're producing millions of these men how manyen women have you met or how many times have you heard I know all these great women who are attractive High character professionally [ __ ] together and they can't find men no they can they just can't find any men they want to date one in three men under the

age of 30 has a girlfriend two and three women has a boyfriend why because women are dating older because they want someone who's more economically and emotionally viable so I really think this is a crisis I think there's a variety of things we need to do around education reform that rewards more what I call boyish behavior and attributes I think we need more freshman seats at universities I'd like to see national service I was just in Israel at the Nova Festival uh Memorial I talked to a battalion of IDF soldiers 180 like young beautiful strong

thin people handling semiotic weapons learning a skill in the company of each other learning meeting mentors meeting Friends Meeting makes some of the lowest levels of young adult depression in a nation that has existential threats all around it and I think it's because they for 2 to 3 years sering the agency of something bigger than themselves I'd love to see national service we need to shove more money in their pockets minimum wage of $25 an hour child tax credit more housing so they can afford a house more vocational programming for men where did wood metal

and autoshop go so there are a lot of things we can do but what I would tell the young men is that let's be honest it's difficult out there right now now for you forgive yourself it is hard for you you need to start making some money you need to get strong and you need to start getting out every day out of the house home is 7 hours a day maybe eight for sleep and you need to take your strong young incredible person out and start hunting Lions finding [ __ ] making friends Finding mates

enduring rejection cuz you are a strong young man in you can handle it but you need to get out of the house you need to get out of the house great advice great advice love that Scot uh Fifth and final question if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow what would it be no Economic Policy can ever get in the way of love you can't have Family Law Court that ends up where dads one and three dads have no contact with their kids in six years all right that we

need to reconfigure the laws we can't have people work 40 hours a week and being impoverished like how can they how can they like be good Dads right or good moms how can they have a loving relationship with their spouse when they're in poverty working 40 hours anything that gets in the way of deep and meaningful relationships has to be done away with or reconfigured this is the whole shooting match none of this matters growth AI GDP growth none of it means a [ __ ] thing if you can't have deep and meaningful relationships anything

that gets in the way of that the parent child relationship stresses marriages results in teens engaging in self harm we need new laws new laws nothing can get in the way of that Scott Gallow everyone the book is called the algebra of wealth a simple formula for Financial Security the podcast is called the Prof G podcast subscribe if you haven't already uh Scott thank you for your amazing work honestly thank you for taking the time to be here today I hope this is first of many conversations I really hope I get to know you better

and I appreciate uh can add you to my kitchen cabinet it would be true honor and uh honestly I I love the work you're doing I'm a big fan and if I can ever be helpful supportive in any way then then I'm right here so please know that I appreciate that and congrats on all your success J thank you so much thank you Scott thank you so much for listening to this conversation if you enjoyed it you'll love my chat with Adam Grant on why discomfort is the key to growth and the strategies for unlocking

your hidden potential if you know you want to be more and achieve more this year go check it out right now you set a goal today you achieve it in 6 months and then by the time it happens it's almost a relief there's no sense of meaning and purpose you sort of expected it and you would have been disappointed if it didn't happen