Chamath Palihapitiya — The Knowledge Project #94

122.39k views15118 WordsGrade 16 Readability4.9/5 RatingDownload TxT File
The Knowledge Project

The Founder and CEO of Social Capital, Chamath Palihapitiya sits down with Shane Parrish to chat about what it means to be an observer of the present, how to think in first principles, the psychology of successful investing, his thoughts on the best public company CEO’s and much more. https://twitter.com/chamath Follow us on Instagram HERE: https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/ Subscribe to The Knowledge Project Podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3fz6u4X Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2SSgCvT Google Podcasts: https://bit.ly/2Wjw7iy) -------- #TheKnowledgeProject #ShaneParrish #ChamathPalihapitiya -------- FOLLOW US: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/farnamstreet/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/farnamstreet Shane Parrish: https://twitter.com/ShaneAParrish

... Show More

Video Transcript:

Man i am so excited to talk to you it's been a long time coming it has been we've tried to organize uh i think for many months if maybe if not a year and i just uh i think both of our schedules were a little tight and but then i had to reschedule once or twice so i'm sorry about them oh no worries originally we were supposed to do it in toronto and then uh Well the world changed the world has changed hey every time i look around you're on the news man what's up with that well i think that it's sometimes valuable when you can actually just like speak the truth not sometimes all the time and i think that most people are pretty guarded because they have to be i don't think they're necessarily always in a position to be as candid as they want to Be and i think that in moments of sort of just clarity i have you know constantly just try to say what i feel and um i think that that resonates with a lot of people it well definitely does i tweeted out today that you were coming on the show and i think we had like over a thousand replies and people everything from like asking what i Should do with my life to how should i think about the future to what should i invest in you're like everybody's guru man uh i mean i i think naval is the guru um but uh i'm the uh brown brother from another mother i uh i think that i think that i've gone through a lot of uh you know kind of like ordinary people [ __ ] and um i think i talk about it in really Simple plain spoken terms and i think that that's really useful to people because it demystifies a lot of things and just makes it um kind of more normal and you know that's been a real theme of my life is just realizing that a lot of the things that i went through is normal um and feeling part of a pack um is really helpful actually it's been really Helpful for me because it's helped kind of like regulate my sense of self-worth and lift it up in moments where i felt pretty crappy about myself and um that's just resulted in better outcomes so i think like a lot of what i talk about i think folks relate to because i speak to it from through that lens and um yeah i just think that's a really good place to be actually it's taken me a long time to get to that place but It's a good place can we double click on that for a second i mean you've got an interesting background right you worked at aol you went to facebook you're a billionaire at 32 you own a sports team from the outside looking in you had the most amazing life but on the inside looking out you didn't feel that way yeah i think a lot of people um have to do things That are motivated by other people's perceptions of them and also motivated um by the pressure that's exerted uh by the people that are very closely around you that sometimes can be your friends it can be your family and i was very much of that category so i was kind of just you know meandering through life now that meandering turned out to have really good outcomes in some respects um The problem was that all it was doing was just uh sort of like you know avoiding the inevitable and the inevitable is this moment that i think everybody goes through where they're asking themselves whether they've lived a completely fulfilling life the way that they defined it you know what i'll say shane is that i think that um sort of not even necessarily Millennials but you know zoomers underneath them um they're the most honest um of any generation uh about what makes them happy and you see that in you know the way that they dress the music that they listen to the media that they consume the way that they um you know sort of like push back on kind of like a more Corporate kind of you know tone and things and they're willing to be happy in a way that they've defined for themselves uh in my generation i'm 44 that's not how it goes down the way that it goes down is you go to the best school you can you take on as much debt as you need to um you try to get the most credentialed job after college um you know you kind of just check the Box you you know find you know a reasonable person that you marry you know you have 2.5 kids you buy a house in the suburbs you save for retirement and i just think for a lot of people they've realized that that's not the path of maximum fulfillment and that being happy actually get generates also better outcomes You know you have better artists you have better engineers you have better everything if people are ultimately just happier and i think that generation of people know that a lot more inherently than people my generation or boomers in the generation what did you come out of that with well how did you define happiness at the end of this you sort of went through this journey There's a great um article uh it's not sorry it's not even an article it's um it's the obituary of steve jobs written by his um sister um uh and she wrote it mona simpson she wrote it in the new york times upon his death and there's just a paragraph in there but i think the phrase that he said was like sort of like oh wow and he just kept repeating oh wow As he was passing away and i've interpreted what that may have meant i have no idea obviously because he's not around to tell us that that's what happened but i have this idea the sensation that he sees his family he thinks about the totality of his life lived and he was happy um and uh but think of what that happiness was able to create not just for his family but for the entire world um and so i do Think that you know on the one hand you could say you know he was fanatical he was a tyrant he was hard to work for you know et cetera et cetera but on the other hand maybe there's a different way of saying it which is that he was very content he had a family that loved him he had a family that he loved and as a result of that happiness he was able to leave that Sanctuary go to work and take that happiness and channel it into doing amazing things for other people that's a pretty cool idea and so um i think that what i would like to live through is that version of the truth for me that oh wow oh wow a wow idea and how do i define it and i didn't even know that that should be a way to live my Life earlier on and you know when you're talking to me today as a you know 44 year old guy is i've learned that there are things that give me these oh wow sensations that i just absolutely love i'll just name a couple and they're you know even today this happened i i you know i'm working a lot these days just really kind of grinding on a lot of stuff And you know these are high pressure decisions that i'm making a lot of the time for me and so they consume a lot of my mental mind with and bandwidth and um it's really exhausting and if there's pressure and you know sometimes i honestly i just feel like like i just need to just like cry like i'm just like i feel really stressed out these moments and You know i'm fighting a pill i feel like and today i was driving to the office and i was having one of those moments and i turned around and i went back home and i went to see each of my four children and i kissed them and i went to see my partner and i kissed her and i felt just this moment of just sheer happiness like i felt like that's what i have Accomplished uh i've built a sanctuary for my family filled with love and um and then i got into the car and i came to the office and uh that's a no wow moment um every summer now i have these oh wow moments because um my partner's italian and um i you know had never really spent a lot of time in europe but in the last four years i spent obviously a lot of time in the summers And my children and i have fallen in love with italians i mean and uh what have we learned you know we've learned to like love the food love the culture the boisterousness the loudness the love the intensity the energy and it's an it's i think about it now and i just it's like wow uh i love it so i i've learned to find things That i really appreciate a third one and i'll just stop that is um i have a group of friends and we play poker together and if i think about how happy it meets me um there's a thing that we do which is we show up at four o'clock we play until about 6 30 and then we have a dinner together like a family dinner and a long table and then we go back and we play for a few more hours that stopped When the coronavirus pandemic started because we couldn't come together we've we've been able to get a bunch of rapid tests and so for the first time this saturday we're gonna come together and play and i think about this and i'm just like oh wow like i cannot wait to see them um so you know and i think about this shane none of that um is about cnbc or You know a good successful company those are important and those are good demarcations of progress um but those aren't my oh wow moments anymore and when i put too much pressure and value in those being the oh wow moments i got distracted and i became unhappy and as long as i stay centered on these other things i have so much more energy to come and work on those first order set of you know Business priorities and get things done and i and i'm trying to achieve something that is at the very early stages which is not done yet yeah i want to talk about that before we get there there's a couple rabbit holes that i sort of want to explore there you mentioned zoomers were willing to speak truth their truth uh pretty easily and it was harder for Our generation but you're you're also you know you're full of controversy sometimes is there you know it doesn't strike me that you have a problem speaking your truth or you you've ever not said what you felt well it's not that i've always not i think that i um i learned to lie at a very young age because lying i think is one of the most simple coping mechanisms that we all Have and um lying manifests in all kinds of very subtle corrosive ways um you know when i was growing up i had a sort of you know i have a i have a family who fundamentally we all love each other but it's a very complicated contorted form of love because it's punctuated with you know some mental health issues you know alcoholism you know depression Poverty um and so you know when i was a young person the way that i coped is to lie are you okay i'm fine did you do that i didn't do that you know where were you nowhere how did you do on that test fine it was um i learned to be evasive and what that created was a deep-seated pattern of lying and avoidance and you know people can say maybe lying is not what That is but at the basic you know kind of just to simplify it um you know i was a you know i learned to lie uh to cope um and uh i think that at some point um i think almost sort of at a very you know physiological biological level um that's not what any of us want to be yeah um and so i think that i had almost This form of organ rejection um and so i had to almost you know go to the other end of the spectrum almost in a way of atoning for all of the years of lies and all of the accumulated mistruths or half truths or evasiveness whether that was in my personal life or my business life and the first moment of clarity around that was actually when i went to work at facebook because for the first time i Was unbelievably candid and it was such a cathartic release because i could be you know almost curmudgeonly in my candor um so much so that at points probably i was a bit of a caricature because you know there was this guy me who seemed very you know almost acerbic at times just a little rough around the edges um And i took it to an extreme there and then in the early parts of social capital i actually think i reverted and i was lying more again because it was you know i was i was filled with a new level and a new kind of insecurity around you know i felt like an imposter in venture capital i felt like you know i didn't earn the right to start a fund i didn't and i gave myself all of these Hurdles that i put in front of me mentally and my solution was to you know try to be evasive and to lie my way through them and then in 2016 and 17 again i think i had an even much more cathartic form of organ rejection around it and i had to sort of recalibrate the life around me so that i could stop lying and i think in that i think you you're Finding a person that tries to be truthful as often as i can and oftentimes what that means is saying the uncomfortable thing but it's the thing that needs to be said and i think that there's a lot of people who appreciate that because they themselves feel like they're sometimes caught in positions where they have to be evasive or they have to lie In order to cope and you know if they themselves aren't in a position to do it i think they appreciate when others can be um and i think that a lot of people have a very positive reaction to that and i think that's in part what what i think people get a sensation uh when they interact with me sometimes so i'm not sure i'm necessarily controversial um i do think that i'm behaving in a way That i think a lot of folks would love to be in a position to do as well right i i don't think it's actually correlated to money um i think that it's more correlated to self-worth and the comfort that you have with yourself the limitations that you have and then you know the ability to love yourself despite those limitations that's a process that Too few of us start and it's like i said it's not a um a money thing it's uh it's a happiness thing so closing the loop on how you started i think that you know zoomers in this interesting way see all these generations you know of folks that are older than them you know 30 year old 40 year olds 50 year old 60 year olds 70 year olds 80 year olds and we live long enough now where they see Multiple generations of evasiveness and unhappiness really yeah uh and and they see similarities in all of us that they're smart enough to decide that they don't want to exhibit because you know it would be one thing shane if you saw an 80 year old well you could say oh i'm not going to be like that person but then you see a 70 year old and you're like wow that's just a junior Version of the 80 year old and then you're a 60 year old and you see that and a 50 year old and because we're all alive you know the 20 year old sees eight generations of people ahead of them and they're like wait a minute something here is wrong and they're smart enough to say what are the commonalities of all these folks and they choose to be different do you still deal with imposter syndrome Uh you know i tried first of all i i i talked to my partner she has been kind of my spiritual partner my kind of like co-pilot because she really has an enormous level of empathy and care around her own mental health and you know the mental health of our family and so we talk a lot you know and we talk About nonsense and serious things and everything in between but we just talk and i found that as a man i was taught that talking is weak i also found that as a immigrant man i was taught that talking about emotions was doubly weak um and then i was you know sort of taught as kind of you know like in this industry that um you know talking is awkward You put all these things together and um you know the biggest thing that i found that has helped me is just talking um and being open um and it starts with her my kids i'm really open and you know transparent with my kids they think i'm a you know basically a [ __ ] loser uh i think that that's really cool um [Music] You know they they just they just roll their eyes every time i start talking because it's like some stupid diatribe but all of these things help me stay um really connected to uh you know the goal of being truthful that helps me stay connected to the goal of being happy to celebrate these wow kind of moments in my life um that helps me but to be honest with you That has to be an active process for me um because that thing that you just said is overpowering for me the the sense of being an imposter is overpowering um and it's um it's like this dragon that i've been trying to slay my whole life and i haven't been able to um and the more i don't even want to say success but yeah i guess like the more um like notches up the ladder i go The more severe it feels um and the harder it is for me to fight it back so um you know i had this conversation with matt yesterday and you know i said to her like yeah i feel like this is why so many people just give up because it's easier to do it than to fight and to solve the real root cause of what allows you to get to the next level of Success that's really why you know you have to look at folks that have really overcome this stuff in however way they've done it and achieved a level of success and really celebrate them because they're um they have a level of mental fortitude that is exceptional but yeah i'm i'm i'm dealing with it right now this imposter syndrome and i i i think it'll be a battle i fight my whole life You know some people other people have different battles but that that is definitely what keeps you going i mean you could just fold up walk away live an amazing life for you and generations of your your heirs what keeps you sort of pushing through this confronting this dragon um i i just think i i do think that i get a level of Enjoyment from it um you know this idea of like uh you know can i beat it um i like how i feel when i'm more connected to the things that make me happy um i like how i feel when i think like when i think that i am doing things that uh the younger version of me would be proud of um not the older version it's interesting like a lot of people think Like you know like at your deathbed and uh i think the exact opposite i think like you know with the 22 year old self you know interacting with this person you know with the 16 year old person like think wow that guy is uh that's a legit human being like he's you know he's putting himself out there trying uh so i'm motivated to keep kind of grinding and getting better Um and uh just seeing what the upper bound is it's interesting a lot a lot of people are like oh if i just had like 10 million or something i just walk away and i'm like well that's probably the reason you might never have 10 million dollars right because the people that achieve that keep pushing and keep struggling and can't actually walk away in some way I think that money accelerates um the point at which you can declare yourself free and feel emancipated like i do think that money is a it liberates people it gives them freedom but going back to what we were saying before it doesn't make you happier and if you are ill-equipped to then run that race The happiness race um and you do it with money uh it's destructive it's it's more destructive than if you do it without one because you know if you're unhappy and you're unconstructively trying to find your happiness and you have cash you know you'll end up you know gambling broke dead high you know like it's all the typical cliches Um and they they played themselves out over you know many generations and they'll continue to do so so um yeah i think that like uh this is why i think people can um separate these two paths and actually work on them concurrently one is the path to freedom and the second is the path to happiness i think the path to happiness is an internal process but the path to Freedom that i can help with you know because i think i've learned an accumulated amount of knowledge here and uh it's readily transferable the happiness path is not because each of us have our own lived experience which is so different from everybody else's and so all you can do is kind of listen to other folks and decide you're going to start for yourself But the answers are not obvious and it's all iteration but the path to freedom uh is easily copied and i think that uh you know that that's sort of sort of what uh what motivates me as well this idea that i can sort of you know all that accumulated knowledge base i can just hand it off to folks and if they can benefit from it that Would be great what is the path to freedom um well sort of financial freedom so i think i think i think that if more people believe that they could be economically self-sufficient i think that it would solve a lot of the societal implications of inequity so you know today we have kind of like this very polarized Body politic really where on one hand there are folks that you know have over sort of indexed on what i would call absolute freedom and intent but it has no plan and on the other side it's sort of over indexed on a nanny state with no plan both of them are very much the same and that neither of them have a credible plan and in the middle there's a plurality of People that are just exhausted and that's a that's a perfect boundary condition for you know a lot of the inequity that that exists today in society and a lot of the frustration that people feel as a result of it so to me if we can give people a more reasonable roadmap where they can execute it they can learn and they can have a community of other Like-minded folks that can put in the time and the work and help each other over you know 5 10 15 20 years to compound capital no matter how small but just to start i think you'd be surprised at how many people are intellectually capable of achieving financial freedom on their own and in that i think that there is um there's a path out of this kind of like Very depressing kind of you know state that we're in um so that i think is the opportunity is so you know i'll give you an example um in 2015 i think we started to really pay attention to tesla and uh you know we bought these convertible bonds and you know we thought they were really great you know risk adjusted because you know we weren't sure whether the shorts were going to win and drive The company into the ground but we were really sure we wanted to bet on elon long story short it all kind of worked out and now you look back and you're like my gosh this is incredible but there was so much knowledge that helped us feel like we were making the right decision that existed in this long tail of people who took it upon themselves to build a community of people that wanted to understand the company Not necessarily just to be a blind cheerleader but they would really go and double click and they were doing a level of work that was incredible and i thought that was so interesting because i thought to myself you know typically what would happen is you would put your money into a bank account you would open up a brokerage account maybe you would get access to some Research from one of the banks you would read it or maybe an advisor would recommend something to you or maybe you'd end up on some random community and read some random form and buy something but instead these were like physicists and you know chemists and you know financial people all coming together to understand these things they were writing research notes they were putting out you Know youtube uh video clips and if you took the time to understand it that community was helping you understand something really important that was happening in the world and you could have financially uh participated because you could just go and buy that uh and it would have worked now let's extrapolate that idea Um forget tesla for a second there's this incredible thing that's happening which is that we are starting to uh you know financialize everything right we're starting to create financial increments attached to anything you could imagine meaning you know it used to be the case that you would only buy sneakers now you buy and sell sneakers and you know The marketplace that that that is the leader in that you know goat um today just announced that they raised you know 200 million dollars at an almost 2 billion valuation um so is it a is it an e-commerce marketplace maybe uh i look at it as a financial market they've you know they fractionalized shoes essentially and they've fractionalized and they've Wrapped a financial transaction layer around taste and taste making you know there's there's a company called pipe there's a company called rally road all these folks you know are you know uh fractionalizing ownership of all kinds of things there's crypto obviously um there's stocks there's you know specific bonds so the point is the surface area The investable universe is growing um some of it is still very regulated some of it is really unregulated but the trend is obvious so we're going to financialize everything and we're going to fractionalize ownership of probably everything and so what there's an opportunity now to do is to curate and cultivate a community around that To help people and that's really what i would like to do i think that it would be a really useful thing to level the playing field so that whether you're you know mom and pop school teacher with 5 or 10k you're a new grad with you know a thousand k that they had saved up or whether you're an accredited investor i don't judge i would like to treat them all equally And i would like to say look i've made some mistakes i've had some winners i've really learned how to allocate capital here's how i see the world and here are ways in which i think that you could participate beside me as my partner and if you want to you can um and i'll always put you know my money on the line so that you know that i am not trying to You know surreptitiously become an agent i am a principal um and i think that if we can organize that in some useful way um i think that we can help a lot of people achieve uh freedom and if they're concurrently working on happiness i think you'll really [ __ ] some [ __ ] up and fix some stuff would be really good you said you in a previous i think interviewer maybe on twitter that your Job was to be an observer of the present i was wondering if you can double click on that yeah i'll i'll give you um something that may you know drive your listeners and viewers crazy let's look at the um 2020 election from first principles let's really look at it from first principles um well let's think about foreign policy Um and foreign policy i think are really four things but really it comes down to three things so number one are sort of like nefarious state actors right uh let's just let's just use an example illustratively russia um well i think most people feel like you know russia is pretty sketchy and um you know they're generally quote-unquote Bad um okay well let's uh let's let's think about another state actor um you know north korea no i don't think you're gonna see a lot of people jump up on either side of the aisle supporting north korea um let's think about um uh china um i think that we've all realized that uh you know the bloom is off the road off the rose and that you know We've allowed globalization a strain of globalization that has put america strategically on our back heels and that doesn't make any sense you know we may not have access to our own semiconductors we don't have access to critical you know uh rare earth metals to drive electrification we you know uh have outsourced critical parts of our healthcare infrastructure Um to folks that um you know can dictate whether we can take care of our own people you know that doesn't make any sense right everybody believes that now um let's take the middle east uh you know the middle east was incredibly critical uh because you know a handful of western countries coming out of world war ii essentially divvied up and built some artificial maps uh essentially to make sure that we Had access to this precious resource oil uh well you know in 2020 we now have you know a 20 or 30 year shot clock where we've decided that we're going to stop burning oil you know we've essentially already stopped burning coal and it's just a matter of time till we stop burning fossil fuels well at that point the strategic relevance of the middle east decays significantly so think about that now so From a foreign policy perspective both sides basically see the world in the exact same way democrats and republicans they both hate russia they both hate china and they both think that energy independence means that the middle east won't matter wow that's observing the present um let's take a different example think about uh monetary and fiscal policy whether we like it or not We used to be in a world where fiscal policy and monetary policy were separate sometimes they would be along the same lines but they were separate bodies acting independently now the treasury and the fed are inexorably intertwined and it's not just in the united states if you look at this problem in you know western democracies in europe it's the same situation This is crazy right we have inexorably brought together fiscal and monetary policy that's just the facts now let's look at spending whether you call it the green new deal on the left or the infrastructure bill on the right we are going to spend in the next decade tens of trillions of dollars to try to dig ourselves out of this unemployment and gdp hole that has been exacerbated By the coronavirus pandemic that's going to happen neither candidate will come to the american people and say we want to spend a trillion dollars on you know digging up coal from the ground and burning coal-fired power plants it's not going to happen one's going to call it a green new deal the other person's going to call it infrastructure spending but we're going To you know radically change the face of how america operates as a functional economy okay and it's relatively predictable in my opinion how they're going to spend that money so if i'm a keen observer of the president if i would put all of that together and i'll say something very controversial which is we have an election That is now actually of style and not of substance now that doesn't mean it's not important but substantively the positions on critical matters of foreign policy domestic monetary and fiscal policy and spending will roughly be plus or minus the same it takes a lot of mental fortitude to think through it and look at it that way and not let One's own biases jump in because it will tear you into you know into a thousand different mental pieces but that's what i mean by being a keen observer of the present so okay what does this election come down to i think it comes down to political correctness versus cancer culture if i had to kind of summarize it in a nutshell that's what it is and i think that people will vote um on November 3rd about which outcome they want because substantively in action the spending patterns the policy decisions will roughly be the same and again see it's such a controversial thing and i think people can just go absolutely crazy to hear somebody say that they're going to go crazy when i don't ask you who you predict will win but what i Really want to know is how do you take that and then what do you do with that in the future you said it okay well this is going to be a predictable path of spending how do you as an investor then take that knowledge that's a fabulous question so this goes back to what i'm trying to do which is if i can observe the present in a reasonably unemotional and detached way to your point I can put a plan together and when i have a plan you know that plan is specifically for me oriented around how i'm going to make sure that the ideas that i want to see exist in the world win and you know at and this is going to sound maybe turn people off the way i say but at my level of capital that's what i can do i can vote with my dollars to really make things come to Life and i think that that um i really take that job seriously um and and and i aim to do that now which is like okay uh i'm learning how to be happy you know i i've achieved a level of freedom but now it's about change and i want to implement my form of change and i want to see that in the world so i'm trying to figure out how my ideas have a better chance of succeeding and then i want to make sure that i Implement a plan to make that happen and then that adds to my knowledge base and then my hope is to share that with other people so that they can then learn from that as they will and maybe they can they can also do their version of the of the same thing so you know if i was really i was six years old in 1980 no 40 years old in 1980 but imagine i was 34 years old or 44 years old I would have woken up and i would have said read the paper it doesn't matter how much money i live in okay if i knew then what i know now i would wake up in 1980 and say oh my god the third year rate is at you know 15 16 interest rate uh man this thing you know if i had to take a guess i really believe in the productivity and The ingenuity of america i'm just going to be i'm going to take a guess that 15 goes to zero before 15 goes to 50 and you would have been really bright and 80s 90s the 2000s and now the 2010s had you just been levered long equities right yeah you would have made a fortune and you would have been right and you would have achieved freedom it doesn't matter Whether you started with a dollar ten dollars a thousand ten thousand ten million you would have been unbelievably rich and in many ways you know buffett's simplicity warren's elegance of his mental model and i'm not trying to diminish his skill by saying this is is a keen observer of this most important high level order idea Which is that rates are going to zero productivity is going to go up ingenuity the resourcefulness of america goes up i want to be long that um long equities you know um it would have worked now shane where are we well we're rates at zero right okay so let's take our all cumulative knowledge and look at today let's just be a keen observer of the present rates are at zero where are they gonna go Are they gonna go to negative five or plus five well now the key question is well probably on the margin you know uh you your instinctive reaction will be plus five um and i would say why i mean what why is zero some artificial number where everything starts and stops this is not like temperature it's not like We're saying it's absolute zero right it's not like there is no colder temperature than you know 200 whatever kelvin 260 something kelvin or whatever it is uh it's just zero it's like zero degrees celsius can you have negative one degrees celsius of course ask anybody that lives in the midwest uh you know or the east coast um so could rates go Negative yeah could rates go positive well i don't know if i'm observing the present what i would say is um you know the overwhelming majority of the value in the last 10 years has been about educating billions of people all around the world that things are roughly deflationary meaning as long as you wait tomorrow and delay gratification Somebody will show up and give you more for less right you know i i had a i don't know i'm making up the name of a company i had a storage account on drive.com all of a sudden dropbox showed up and said more for less and then i was using dropbox for a while and then google drive showed up and said even more for even less and i'm pretty sure That the next person that figures out how to do storage and scale will come up with even even more for even even less facebook did the same thing you know uh spotify does the same thing netflix does the same thing all these things that create so much value are training us psychologically to behave in Deflationary ways to delay gratification slightly or to make the cost of switching so low that even if you don't want to delay gratification you can just change your mind later and cop to the next thing that gives you more for less so it is very conceivable that we are in a deflationary posture for a long time now it's also possible that you know uh inflation could go up so my kind of view as well I need to answer this problem in a different way and the way that i would try to answer this problem is to say to myself well what sectors of the economy will benefit irrespective of whether we go to negative five or plus five because i don't know what the answer to that question is it'll be obvious in hindsight but it's not obvious today and so i construct an allocation for myself To try to um solve for that well people are going to be buying things you know they're probably going to be buying things online so you know e-commerce consumption that's a big category that will win whether rates are minus five or plus five um people need to care about health care right so they're going to consume things and there's probably going to be pressure over time to do you know Better and better things and more useful things um just because you know we can't keep spending the way we are with the outcomes that we're getting right um okay so that's that's the second category um you know we probably want to have um a reasonable way of equipping ourselves with skills and education um so that's another big category um you Know we're probably going to need to have clean sustainable energy that's another category we're probably going to want to eat in ways that are more constructively useful for us that's another category we're probably going to want to hedge just the chance that none of us knows what we're doing so you know you need some kind of like alternative asset category that's another thing so you can kind of go down the line you Know whether you use maslow's hierarchy or something else as a jumping-off point and kind of say look the the answers the high-level answer the framework is obvious healthcare education climate change fintech blah blah and then you need to fill in an allocation then you need to figure out the mix of you know early stage versus late stage or public versus you know Some of these other things and then you can construct an answer so you know the way that i answer this is to say well uh i'm basically going to be long growth because whether rates are minus five or plus five the thing that overcomes all of that noise is fast growth and ceos that can invest all the money they make today for the future simply because i can now lazily Let that person work on my behalf because that's less of a problem that i have if you as a ceo shame if i was an investor in your company and you said i generate 30 free cash flow and i'm going to give you a dividend i would say shane [ __ ] you i don't want that money keep that [ __ ] what am i supposed to do with it reinvest it grow faster please i mean one of the Most incredible insights that that we figured out in 20 2014 i sold all facebook all my shares you went right into amazon didn't you but the way we underwrote that investment there's a guy that was working on our team who now runs a hedge fund um young guy brilliant guy who randomly emailed me and i ended up hiring him emailing inbox at socialcapital.com this kid sakia w Great great guy he's not a kid anymore he was a kid then and we worked on this analysis and basically you know he said to me trump i think that bezos is a better capital allocator than buffett and i was like what the hell are you talking about and we constructed this really elegant chart which showed basically the p L of amazon and it looked at every expense line and he had taken every single expense line created a product around it and made it a revenue line and i thought man this guy is a genius um by the way that deck is floating around so you can see this chart uh out there uh in the wild uh but that's capital allocation that's really skillful so you want that you want you want a guy that's basically like listen Guys i got this we're going to generate a couple billion dollars i'm going to put all of it back in the ground for you and it's going to grow really well and just trust me and i think that those are the real high quality folks you want to get behind so basically my solution is you got to be long growth um higher growth the better in the areas that matter for people Um and i think that you know in 10 years from now that'll be a playbook that really works by the way that sounds kind of like he's not saying anything i think it is seeing something because like you know the historical model of how you would get freedom is you know 60 equities 40 bonds you know the 60 you would say uh you know you'd be long etfs maybe okay well You know long etf is basically long fang and i i think that you want a little bit more uncorrelated exposure than just fame um so yeah that's that's kind of like what i'm working through right now is trying to really refine an approach that i think can work for the next decade uh you know 15 20 years and then share with google so it sounds like part of your process is to go through this And figure out what's not changing and try to allocate there do you also look at what do you where you see massive change and how you could possibly take advantage of that or is that a category you just don't evaluate not not in that language um i i kind of tend to think about things that are just like will they be more important and if they're going to be more Important how can we accelerate the right outcomes i think climate change is a really good example of that where it doesn't matter whether you believe in climate change or not um i think that what we know to be true we don't like which is that you know the places we used to ski at we can't ski yet anymore the places we used to go and bathe on the beach may disappear and not exist And so if nothing else just because of our own selfish desire to be happy we should probably want a better control at least to the extent that we can our impact on you know taking our own happiness so you know i don't think people in the midwest want you know hurricane season and if there are experiments that we can run where we can observe whether they help we should run them And so you know if you have i don't know all these gigatons of carbon being emitted and you can run an experiment that takes them out we should probably do it and we'll know conclusively whether uh you know it it'll change hurricane season so why not just run the experiment in an unemotional detached way but like you know if you view climate change in that lens It's a multi-decade multi-deca trillion dollar opportunity the the world's first trillionaire will be somebody in climate change oh that's interesting well as you were saying that i was sort of also thinking there's things that we value today that are going to be massively under or overvalued in the future you know commercial real estate strikes me as something that maybe maybe that's not going to have the same Future as past what do you think of that and what are those industries for you yeah i'll say something that actually makes me a little sad but i think it's true i would not view it i don't view it as commercial real estate versus uh um resi um residential real estate um i would say this way i think that architecture will Unfortunately have a lot less value in the future because of climate change now what does that mean well for example if you look at some of the most progressive countries in the world europe on the climate issue and you look and you know again start to go back to first principles where is the carbon emitted you know where are the greenhouse gases emitted well it's overwhelmingly in cities And then you start to look at okay well you know what are some of the things that we can do to electrify or to decarbonize one thing that you get to is you have all this incredibly beautiful architecture but it's completely dated and the amount of carbon that you know these heating systems these water systems generate you know getting stuck into these very intricate beautiful you know You you walk by these piazzas you think god these things have been around for 500 years and on the one hand you're like it's amazing but on the other hand you're like this is going to be really tough for you know the city of paris or milan or amsterdam to defend historic architecture in the face of also wanting to be carbon neutral and i think in the united states it's also going to have some direct Implications as well so if architecturally you know we unfortunately have to replace some of this old beautiful stuff with more simple modern stuff you know we'll have a more utilitarian landscape or maybe you'll just have a bunch of variations of modern uh but you know that's a direct implication of climate change i think that nobody talks about so you know how Will that affect people's happiness or people's creativity uh that they're all living in these sort of like i don't know if you've ever been to shanghai but if you cross from you know put on to shanghai and you go across this one long bridge it's it sort of looks like this kind of like weird future state where you just have these you know Buildings rising up on every single you know to the horizon on each side they all look the same and you think god that's depressing if i had to live in that uh but we may have to live in that in a you know climate neutral world do you want that you said successful investing is about behavior in psychology can you expand on that I think that um when push comes to shove um what you're always going to be fighting is yourself panicking overreacting under reacting [Music] you know refusing to observe the present living too much in the past wanting too much to believe in the future so it's all psychological traps because the data is there if you want to observe um and then just clinically re-underwriting How it sits you know as as part of your risk equation you know which bucket does it sit in how big is that little bet inside the bucket um and so i've tried to really understand how to create an edge and i don't think an edge comes from you know attending conferences or you know writing some crazy algorithmic Software maybe a few people can do those things and find an edge but what is a more kind of like mainstream accessible idea and i think it is that if you define certain behavioral principles that protect you from the worst parts of your own psychology that's a winning strategy um and so you know i have like a handful of these rules that i try to Live by um and they these behavioral rules around you know trying to think about things like buying companies versus buying stocks they're trying to think about you know the quality of the ceo the quality of the business trying to think in long duration not looking at the stock price every day you know reading annual reports avoiding quarterly reports you know All these things that try for me um to solve for my blind spots and that's allowed me to take bigger and bigger swings because i feel like i'm practicing the things that will you know protect me from myself so i think a lot of what you know you need to do as a person um by the way notice how all these things tie together it's like you know nobody would have ever told you that Focusing on your happiness would make you a great investor but focusing on your happiness in part is saying you know you're exploring who you are as a person you're finding what makes you happy but the other part of that is you're finding out what blind spots are in your weaknesses right and you're finding ways to deal with them well when you translate that knowledge of those things Into business particularly you know in investing it's enormously helpful um it's a money-making strategy so i really i really think that spending time understanding yourself and then translating that into actionable guard rails that you write down and you stick to is a really important thing i i love the idea of sort of creating these correct automatic behaviors that put you On the path to success by either addressing your blind spots or sort of like showing you more are there are there sort of like personal rules that you have as well are there like let's let's go deep on that like what do you do to overcome your blind spots in all areas of your life not just investing but personally too i talk um and again i go back to the same thing i just I just talk i and when i feel when i find that i revert into a comfort zone where i'm repeating past behaviors that i don't like it's because i've stopped talking to nat to a couple of friends that i rely on to you know two therapists that i talk to on a regular basis um it's all about my mental health the healthier i am mentally the more i'm able to overcome These natural inclinations to revert to comfortable patterns that have been very well established and well worn they're not healthy but they're just habits so you know by talking what happens is people who know me they develop a pattern recognition and then they start to tell me hey you're being really insecure there hey why are you you know talking in that way or Talking about this thing and now what i can do before i would get very defensive and insecure and i would attack the person when they would say that so it also needs people who really deeply at the end of the day love you and care care about you um and that's hard to find i mean it's not like those those folks really grow on trees i have you know um two people nat My friend rob and i really talk to them a lot um and then i have two therapists and i talk to them weekly and so that's really helpful for me so yeah it's just pattern it's just their pattern recognition you know talking is also really good because like it allows you to vent and so you know if you think about sort of like plaque you know flossing it doesn't stop 100 of the plaque from building up but it does prevent you know 90 95 so then when the dentist gets in there you know she's only here he's only cleaning out a little bit of muck admire versus like all kinds just random [ __ ] um and so for me venting is like keeping you know the plaque from building up stripping away the plaque it just allows me to get the negative energy out to reframe some of the things That are happening in my life in a more constructive way and then i can come back to the problem at hand with the health fear mindset and outlook i just i i really think the big insight the big unlock is it's not work and personal i don't think these are separate worlds they're deeply subconsciously intertwined and interconnected and being happy personally Is the pathway to help everything else make sense and that is around mental health and i think a key unlock for mental health is just finding a resource to talk to and when you first start talking it's going to be just kind of blathery [ __ ] and uh it's going to be imprecise and it's going to be super awkward and you're going to feel like what is this um and then over time It's like anything like when you start to get good at it um it's it's really good it's like it's like they're they're real they're really it's really good you need to exercise that muscle you mentioned pattern recognition i thought that was really interesting like you've interviewed thousands of ceos over the years what are some of the questions that you asked and the patterns that you recognize and How do you develop that pattern recognition to find the ones that are going to make the biggest difference i've learned that my pattern recognition before was too brittle it was too superficial i would ask dumb obvious questions for which any good ceo will have very good practice answers and so now i don't do that anymore i'm trying to solve for something a little bit more elusive which is Two things integrity and mental agility the integrity one can't be defined by a question it's about subtle observations over a long period of time because people take a long time to reveal themselves and going back to how we first started people are very good at lying and being invasive very good and i don't mean to say that in a negative way that you can't trust People you absolutely can and i actually think the way to overcome all of this stuff is to actually put your trust out there and just trust with reasonable guard rules but to trust and just to assume the best intentions of everybody i think that's a very healthy mindset it just de-escalates a bunch of mental stress that you could otherwise have but people reveal themselves in small little ways Over long periods of time and when you can observe enough of those observations you can pull them together to get a really good sense of integrity and um so that you know for me it's like a two three four six month nine month one year journey and every moment is an opportunity to just re-underwrite my integrity and theirs you know am i being completely whole and honest to them And am i giving them my best you know so i'm like am i leaning in with 100 of my integrity and then are they giving it back to me and it doesn't have to be in a business interaction it could be in a personal interaction it could be how they talk to the waiter at a restaurant you know random conversations you have and their reactions to things their openness to different points of view so that's one Thing and then mental agility is just more about what happens when you keep things open-ended that's not what you would do if you were interviewing someone for a very specific role at a company like you know engineer or something you know they're they're it's about functional competence and these two things don't matter but when i'm evaluating a ceo those are the only two things that matter and so It's about a bunch of open-ended conversations where you see how they think and you know when you see how they frame a problem and when you ask kind of seemingly dumb questions and if you're okay to ask what sounds like a dumb question and what they actually hear is a very open-ended question and that's a great way to sort of figure out uh mental agility because it Sparks them in how their mind works and you hear an answer that you wouldn't get otherwise and what you hear is a framework and a process [Music] and and i really like that you know like meaning like when you frame questions like so what do you think about and you just say something like random you know just like random you know like Jim what do you think about um you know uh the triangle offense and you'd be like what the hell kind of question is that like that has nothing to do with what i know um and then you know you just find people's mental agility um and i i honestly think ceos are incredibly the best ceos are incredibly mentally agile people they're kind of curious they know You know a little bit about a lot you know that's how you have to run a company if you know a little bit about a lot and uh you have to be good at engaging and understanding things asking questions back you know what what about the triangle offense asks you know makes you want to ask me that question and then i would say well i i just think it's like what do you think about sort Of like you know structured approaches that you know um have this sort of like dynamic allocation of like you know uh of resources so like you know the triangle offense to me is like this kind of like really cool way where you like both have rigidity and flexibility and then you know then you may say yeah you know well here's a way that i think about my business that way and all of a sudden you're having a Completely random conversation it required me to say something completely [ __ ] dumb and like what seems like a complete non-sequitur to to the average person and then the intellectually mentally agile person you know you know mostly out of kindness and curiosity engages you and then you end up down a totally different path that is a great way for me to gut check To see you i like that a lot i'm glad you didn't put me on the spot with the triangle i mean i was just making it up right away that that's david but yeah talk to me like public company ceos who who do you think is the the sort of like top five public company ceos not asking for investment advice here just who are the best pure ceos for the next 10 years That's a great question okay um elon musk jeff bezos also really okay you're really putting me on the spot i love it i get you thinking i'm really thinking to try to answer this in a super thoughtful way um toby toby toby lutky i think toby's really really exceptional he um he's world class on the level of those two Oh my gosh it's such a good wow never been asked it so well jack dorsey [Music] exceptional um and i i really owe him actually an apology because i had a very dismissive sensation of jack and i don't really know him that well obviously but it's just just in my observations of sort of his decision making particularly at square particularly around cash app And you know the decision to you know the the idea of moving to africa is just so smart so genius i mean just goes to show you the short-term mindedness of these folks that that overreacted i think um but dorsey yeah that's four right yeah that's four which company um i will eventually have something that represents the Totality of my intellectual capital meaning like you're going to go public i would i would really like to um i would like to be under that pressure and um i would really like to work on behalf of everybody uh everybody meaning like you know if i can level the playing field and give folks but i don't know what that is that's the problem like i don't i don't Know like how to answer that question like it's like some amorphous blob like well what is it that i do i don't know what i do you could go public tomorrow though why don't you but i think i'm pretty good i i really do think i'm good and i think i'm getting better oh talk to me about that what what like how do you measure the difference between good and like Getting better for yourself we all like asymptotes some at some trajectory and i think that i am now one to one and a half orders of magnitude away from my asymptote so you can kind of see it but it's very faint and so um now i think i have a tool kit to implement a process that can get me close to my asymptote and i would love for me to be able to Talk to you in 40 years i'll be 84 and say i'm like within you know a couple of turns of the asymptote so for me it's it's believing in myself more it's knowing how to take smarter risk being risk on in larger quantum so i can write you know hundred multi hundred million dollar Checks now and feel okay about it um i need to be able to do that with billions and tens of billions and this sounds crazy but five or six people in the world really know how to do that well you know um and so it's not it's not a shot that a lot of people get a chance to take you know even if you're running like you know the largest private equity fund In the world the quantums of money that people are investing uh that is that is of their own is still relatively limited and small even if the you know the headline numbers are big so i want to learn to do that i want to learn to feel like less of an imposter the more i do that i think the smarter i can get at distilling and observing the present acting on that and then passing that Through to other people so that they can act on it too um and so you know i don't have the skill to go deep in one of these things and you know build one of these platforms i think my skill is slightly different which is sort of to organize a lot of things together in a thematic understanding um and you know this is where i think at like i can't be a ceo of a million Dollar or 100 10 million 100 or even billion dollar company because that's about functional competence but when a company becomes 10 billion plus it's all about capital allocation and i really think um just i'm an outlier in my ability to do that and my desire sorry i'm not an outlier my ability to do it that's not true i'm an outlier in my just maniacal desire to be really good at that So i would want to bet on myself so but that's not an accurate answer to your question because you said public company ceos and that's not so i'm not probably i thought you were just going to break that you're going public right here on the show no no no i have no plans but uh uh yeah no that whole whatever okay so let's take me out of the question that was stupid uh well no see that's me feeling like an Imposter uh lassie is you i mean like it's like what a it's uh it's you're overthinking this yeah it's a coping method what what is your decision process for when you're making a capital allocation decision they've made a few recently like without any specific names so i don't want to get anybody in trouble but What's that process in your head like like how are you actually what's what are you talking to yourself about mentally to make sure because it's all on you yeah i uh i i i really love it like you know we do a lot of work like i mean i have great partners i have a team that i work with who are just exceptional people um they are the most high integrity people i've ever worked with Um and they give me enormous energy um you know i have i have uh some some you know folks that i've partnered up with who have their own organizations as well those folks are super high integrity and so all these people that i spend my day with every day are just kind good earnest people each of us i don't think are the Smartest ones but when we put ourselves together we are really really smart collectively and that's that's awesome and so we all do different things and everybody's bringing different things to the table and then what happens it allows me to kind of synthesize all kinds of different inputs and learnings and you know Variations on a model regulatory research market research you know consumer marketing research all of this stuff and learn about it which is super fun and in my mind what's happening is basically like here's how this can go right here's how this can go wrong here's how this can go right here's how this can go wrong and i'm bouncing back and forth and all of these things are just um Oscillating and if i had to characterize it this is going to sound nuts but it's like a and then that oscillation goes faster and faster and faster and then i find a point of equilibrium is that like the matrix moment for you or like all of this data all of a sudden just yeah yeah yeah no yeah it is like that it's like you know i I know that uh leading into something i become a little detached i am a little all over the place my mind's racing my you know so sometimes i'll be saying non-sequiturs on calls and uh my partners are very patient with me in those processes you've made like public calls you did bitcoin in 2012 you did amazon in 2014 you did tesla in 2015. like you've Nailed fairly i would say controversial things at the moment i mean in hindsight they've all worked out exceptionally well but at the moment they everybody thought you were crazy yeah they really really did and that's awesome because it's like advantageous divergence right you're diverging from the crowd and you're right yeah and uh and and what it does is It it has given me confidence in my process it's random you know it's about ingesting a lot of stuff it's allowing yourself to be influenced but then come back home right that's another thing i love meaning um if i'm having a conversation or we're in a sort of a teaching kind of a situation where i'm learning about something i allow myself to be seduced i allow Myself to sort of fall for the narrative i allow myself to believe the totality of what that other person believes fully and completely because i want to really start to understand the nooks and crannies now that process doesn't work if you want to be intellectually lazy um or if you find yourself being intellectually lazy and you stop when you get You know confirmatory that first confirmatory meeting or that first confirmatory article or you know you could joke but like that first conformatory google link ah i'm done you know uh it doesn't work that way but if you're willing to bounce around and you know fundamentally be unoffensive in your opinions upfront you find that people who have extreme opinions will Talk to you in a very unguarded way and i i think i've trained myself to let myself be seduced by those folks so that i can learn from them uh but i always come back home i come back to the center i come back to no opinion what's the trick for that right like there's this quote from ender's game that i was thinking have you ever watched that movie or read the book where he says There's this moment where i understand my enemy better than they understand themselves and in that moment i sort of love them and defeat them and it sounds like you're allowing yourself to understand somebody else's opinion like so fully but you don't get caught up in it how do you avoid no i do in the moment but i know to slow it down and then i also know to come back home so i think i think maybe the maybe the Clarifying question shane would be like what is your process of coming back home yeah okay so what i have to do is i have to go and then be again it takes it none of this is possible without an incredible team that has super high integrity the anchoring principle of which is kindness so i will come back to my partners i'll be like guys And they're like okay okay okay okay good uh and they they de-escalated right right so you know or i'll go to that sit look she's like okay i got you okay okay got it you know or or rob or you know like all these and so it's it's wonderful um and so then i go okay i was getting a little excited there or i come back can you believe this i can't believe this This sucks they're like uh-huh okay yeah gotcha good okay uh and you know i i've learned that i do that um and so i can i get back home faster and it helps me but uh but i do that a lot i allow myself to live in the persona of that person and that opinion because it allows me to understand um where they're coming from that sounds like a superpower man like just to be able to understand at somebody's level Without bringing any of yourself into it and just be like i really want to see the world through your eyes i want to see everything i want to feel what you feel i want to see what's valuable all the variables i want to see how they connect but the way that you see the world and then coming back and then saying now i can see the world through this person's eyes and my eyes I have fewer blind spots and i have a more more accurate view of reality if you will yeah are you still are you still high on bitcoin yeah really yeah i just think that um you know i think that we are dismantling financial orthodoxy and in that dismantling and in the leveling of the playing field there will be moments of volatility And to have a small amount of insurance that's uncorrelated to the orthodoxy i think it's just a smart risk management thing i don't i'm not super emotionally caught up in it you know it's not like i'm chewing on the failure of you know central banks and like i'm not decrying all the money getting printed i'm not that emotional about that stuff but i just think it's a smart thing to have under the mattress Just in case how do you think about all this spending i mean where every western country is about to basically you know spend themselves into i don't know what position but they're going to spend more money in the next you know 10 to 15 years than they've probably spent in the past hundred and a lot of it on the surface and i haven't looked into this as much as you have but a lot of it on the surface seems like We're gonna prop up the status quo instead of investing where things are going in the future right so uh i know some countries are writing checks to people to stay at home but they're not requiring them to adapt to new skills that'll be valuable in the future they're sort of just propping up the way the world used to be how do you think about that yeah i i think that um Or chin check me like am i completely wrong um i think in part it's not totally true what you're saying um meaning like you know if you look at sort of the eu budget um an enormous percentage of that budget is going to uh you know a carbon neutral eu by you know 20 frankly not even 2050 they're trying to pull it forward and do it 2040 In some industries you know 20 30. um so i think the spending is actually going uh in in reasonable places i think that there are there's always waste um and the reason is that you know politics and political bodies don't know enough um to write specific legislation so they get influenced by all kinds of folks and so that's what creates waste and so you have to be okay with that it's just The natural dynamic of democracies and you know the waste we we deal with the waste because in return we get freedom you know a different kind of freedom right right i mean like you know maybe you can have the most you know efficient thing in country in the world but if it's autocratic you may not want that you also don't want super efficient countries right like we've learned this we we want resilient Companies we want resilient countries we want resilient people and i think this this focus on hyper efficiency also had us you know manufacturing ppe in certain locations and not having a national stockpile and you know we've done this in a lot of ways where we've seeded this um redundancy or actually we're taught this in school like business school teaches You right like redundancy is a waste and you can turn that waste into capital and so we become hyper efficient i i agree with you just with the small business school as an example has taught you that redundancy is waste and waste can be converted into profit and profit is converted into compensation and i think that is what people have Really drank the kool-aid on and so you know when they ran out of waste that they could convert into profit they had these ultra quote unquote efficient companies and then they just redirected um you know the middle part of that equation to generate more compensation which was like you know okay well we've eliminated all the waste we've outsourced everything to china we're generating more money than ever Now what should we do and then people said oh we'll just start to buy back the stock and that'll also drive compensation um so you know these things these things i think are cycles that that all flow from uh the incentives around comp unfortunately um so that i just i just wanted to yeah i know i thought that was that was excellent do you think government should bail out Public companies industries which ones i think that the government should really be plowing money into the next generation of industries and i think that um the government should always be on the bleeding edge of not needing to make money in in some critical important industries for the future and so in the absence of doing that we've lost touch with the things that Have really propelled the united states forward for example you know why was the space race so important um you know on the one hand it was about you know american determinism right like we are going to do this this is going to happen um but it was also that it created an entire generation of industries that were derivative from the space industry because you were training People with a level of skill and precision and capability that they could then apply to other markets so we always need to be in space you know we always need to be pushing the boundaries you know we need to go you know not just to the moon but now to mars and beyond um it can't just be elon's task that's not fair you know you put him against the wall and he's got to raise an enormous amount Of capital that you know if if we had government sponsorship for uh we could we could have done a lot more sooner in many ways you know that this deflationary super cycle really started in 1970 when we basically ended the space program and it's in in the early version that saw us get to them so i think that you know that's a really big thing um that's Where that's where i think like you know government should be spending their money um they should be making bold bets uh uh on other markets too like you know uh climate change or they should be changing incentives around you know health care they should be changing incentives around education you know if you were going to spend money you know why don't you just wipe out all student debt i don't think that's such a Bad thing and in return make people you know um you know join some sort of like american peace corps that kind of like does work and volunteers and you know there's all kinds of ways that that governments can allocate capital probably a little bit more productively i like that i'm going to switch gears and start asking some of these twitter questions so you can you can answer rapid fire if you want of All the provocative and controversial things that you've said which ones do you regret none what do you think future chamath will disagree with that you agree with today anything come to mind that you're sort of on the edge of it no but if i'm if i'm evolving i will have learned so much more that my thoughts today will seem slightly immature What's the last thing you changed your mind about oh my gosh three or four things just today what do you think of the entire venture capital industry um well-intentioned somewhat misguided somewhat low integrity in certain places misaligned is this work from home thing real and what are some of the implications it's partially real and i think the biggest implication is Belongingness community feeling part of a group and so i think when we can go back to the office we'll want to i think one thing that we miss on this um is that we like to feel part of something larger than ourselves and that's become harder not only in our communities in some ways i mean in some ways it's easier because we're all going through this common struggle but we're also it's harder in our Community and we don't feel like even though you're working for a company or you're working with people it doesn't feel as much and i've noticed a lot of people have started saying well it's becoming really transactional now i don't see people at the office and asking about their weekend anymore it's becoming a very sort of i think that's really interesting sort of observation I think that's well said i think that's a really important thing i completely agree with you how do you manage risk uh i mean i have a i have a framework uh it's basically a barbell um you know a big chunk of the liquid that's a big chunk of very concentrated liquid bets and then a slug in the middle that's just more kind of like random Cash or the s p 500 for the next five years uh you had something about why men live uh less long do you remember that on twitter yeah i tweeted something out what was that um didn't it have something to do with like we couldn't talk about our emotions or something yeah yeah it has to do with mental health and emotion i i really do believe That i mean i think that you know like like well let me just ask the question like why do women live longer than men why do women live longer than that no why i mean why why i don't know i i think that there's something to the fact that they're able to talk about feelings in a way that is unnatural for men 100 i really think people think this is like A crock of horseshit i don't but i think that um your physiology is not just how your lower intestine processes blah blah blah like that's not what it means like the the body is like a very complicated combination of emotions and you know cells and organs and all of these biological psychological functions interacting and we've all seen that play out and so you know it's like it's inconceivable That your mental health doesn't improve your health i mean right yeah like you sound like an idiot if you said that and i just think that dudes don't talk and it's a little bit stigmatized than it is for women and i think that that's a wonderful superpower that women can teach the rest of us my i mean like i said my partner's taught me how to talk And i would be eternally grateful for her for having taught me that next question what are some of the lessons you learned from the book the adult children of alcoholics which you recommended a few times the most important one is how i was normal and uh it's again it's pretty obvious or not obvious but may sound bland but like you know to feel so deeply insecure and somewhat Of an imposter my whole life always the outsider you know that's the first book that said hey there's an entire group of people that will behave this way based on these inputs and i was like wait a minute i behaved those ways wait you're telling me that i'm not this deficient broken person that i'm a byproduct of this and this is well studied and it's like it's Actually normal and you can improve where you are was it was a profound moment all right last question what's the most misvalued asset in the world today either high or low oh wow that's a really good question okay um you can pick most undervalued or most overvalued oh my gosh wow uh see i i really take these questions Seriously like when you ask me that i wanna no but i wanna give you like a right answer and uh i don't really know you can just say i don't know i mean yeah i don't know okay i don't know i don't know how to answer that question to be honest with you it's a really good question i love the the video thing we just started doing this but i can see the wheels turning in your head i love it This has been an amazing conversation jamath i want to thank you so much for taking the time thanks ben i really i really appreciate it thanks for having me you

Related Videos

How to Build Psychological Safety at Work

The Knowledge Project

274 - 1 day ago - 6:20

Chamath Palihapitiya — The Knowledge Project #94

The Knowledge Project

122.3k - 7 months ago - 1 hour, 30:8

Bill Ackman — The Knowledge Project #82

The Knowledge Project

114.1k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 38:4

IMPROVE Your BEHAVIOR, IMPROVE Your LIFE | Sendhil Mullainathan

The Knowledge Project

3.4k - 4 months ago - 1 hour, 34:12

Adam Grant | Why You Should Rethink A Lot More Than You Do

The Knowledge Project

1.4k - 1 week ago - 1 hour, 23:43

Naval Ravikant | The Angel Philosopher

The Knowledge Project

160k - 1 year ago - 2 hours, 2:19

GREATER ISRAEL PROJECT SOON? REALITY OF ISRAEL'S NEXT P.M NEFTALLI BENNETT! | Mohammed Bin Ishaq

Mohammed Bin Ishaq

39.3k - 1 day ago - 13:41

Daniel Kahneman | The Knowledge Project #68

The Knowledge Project

14.1k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 6:41

Angela Duckworth: Grit and Human Behavior | Episode 109

The Knowledge Project

2.8k - 1 month ago - 1 hour, 26:39

What makes a GREAT INVESTOR? | Episode 111 Joel Greenblatt

The Knowledge Project

3.1k - 3 weeks ago - 1 hour, 16:25

How To GET MORE DONE and AVOID DISTRACTIONS | Nir Eyal

The Knowledge Project

3.7k - 3 months ago - 1 hour, 19:18

The Negotiating MASTERCLASS | Chris Voss and Shane Parrish

The Knowledge Project

62.6k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 23:5

Failing On Our Way To Mastery | Seth Godin

The Knowledge Project

6.9k - 3 months ago - 1 hour, 20:43

Secrets to Healthy Relationships | Esther Perel | The Knowledge Project #71

The Knowledge Project

45.2k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 18:5

All about SEMICONDUCTORS | A special episode of The Knowledge Project

The Knowledge Project

25.4k - 6 months ago - 1 hour, 9:28

Mental Models for complexity | Scott Page and Shane Parrish | The Knowledge Project #55

The Knowledge Project

10.9k - 1 year ago - 1 hour, 23:38

Angela Duckworth Explains When and Why People Quit

The Knowledge Project

1.2k - 1 week ago - 4:5

Maria Konnikova — The Knowledge Project #89

The Knowledge Project

7.2k - 10 months ago - 1 hour, 32:41

Russ Hudson —The Knowledge Project #91

The Knowledge Project

5.4k - 9 months ago - 1 hour, 47:39

START YOUR own SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS | Josh Kaufman

The Knowledge Project

2.8k - 2 months ago - 1 hour, 13:52

Working without the Office | Matt Mullenweg | The Knowledge Project #100

The Knowledge Project

3.8k - 5 months ago - 1 hour, 25:15

Like it? Make YTScribe even better by leaving a review