Matthieu Pageau: The Language of Renewal

"Um, I guess first of all, could you just talk a little bit about, um, what your new book is going to be about? Okay, uh, well, my new book is going to be about basically, um, the role of Eve in the Bible, which is also the role of women in the Bible. Basically, since she's the first woman, she represents all women. Basically, um, so there's—it's actually a pretty deep concept that I don't think a lot of people, uh, [Music] grasp. Um, there are feminists who do grasp it on the left for sure. I mean,

it's not true that nobody's talking about this; there are lots of people talking about it. But, um, there's some element of subversion in that subject going on right now for a while, so we can't just ignore it. See, that's the thing. One of the things that's been going on is that, uh, people who have the intention of defending tradition and the church, um, have a tendency of ignoring what's going on on that side of the political aisle—let's say on the left. So, it’s like just ignoring it or just saying it's wacko, you know, just saying

it’s, uh, crazy. It doesn’t make any sense, which is not true. It doesn’t make sense; it makes plenty of sense. Now, that doesn't mean you have to, uh, go into that completely. Okay, so that's the problem; it's usually the same with all problems. You see part of a big picture; you see just part of it, and then instead of putting it where it belongs—in the place where it belongs in the universe—you know, you just see it as the whole picture. So that's usually what causes most problems in this world. Somebody perceives some truth, and then

they kind of fall in love with that part of reality, and they sort of, uh, attribute everything to that part. So that happens on both sides, though; that's the thing. You see, it happens on both sides. It's not necessarily always about politics. I mean, um, it goes into politics in the end; it ends up in politics, and it ends up in morality too. It ends up everywhere. But, um, these are just symptoms of, you know, of beliefs—of perspectives that people adopt. So there’s truth to the feminist worldview; it's not completely false, but there it’s also

not completely true. What certain right-wingers tend to go towards, it also has sometimes the same problem. If you see your right-leaning perspective as being the whole thing and the other side as being completely wrong—completely wrong, you know?—it's the same error on both sides, in a sense. I'm not trying to be a centrist here; in fact, I'm not at all a centrist. It kind of bugs me sometimes when people think the solution is always just to kind of snake yourself in the middle there; always just—I don't even know how to describe it. I just—I don’t like

that. Um, but you don’t have to be a centrist to see that both sides have some reason for existing. Okay? And with the left, there’s a huge issue because, well, from what I'm seeing now, from what I'm studying, uh, that side is very subtle. Okay? So it's a kind of, uh—well, I’ve talked about this before, you know; it’s the, um—I think I said like then—the good stumbling stone, right? I think that's how I described it, and that is, that is a good way to describe it. So there's a stumbling stone that kills you, but we

have to remember that too, you know? There's a stumbling stone that completely destroys you, and your enemy also puts stumbling stones on your path. You know, it's not just—obviously, this is the part that everyone should already know intuitively, because, you know, we all have enemies. We all have obstacles that are truly meant to stop us and to stop us from doing what we want to do. Uh, I mean, your enemy doesn't just have to see it as good and evil or anything like that. I mean, you have competition, you know? You have different interests, and

if your interest goes against another person's interest, then they're against you; they're your enemy. You don’t have to start saying this guy is evil and I'm good. Sometimes it can be that, but, I mean, it’s kind of a little bit of a naive, almost childish worldview there. I mean, I have enemies, and I'm their enemy too; they're my enemy, I'm their enemy. It's not like just a one-sided thing. But you have to be in the reality that we have enemies that want to destroy us as well, obviously. But there's also another aspect to it, which

is what I talked about, I think, the last time we spoke. I mentioned a little the idea that sometimes the stumbling stones are good, and sometimes they are there to help you when you're already going astray. So let's say if you're making some errors—you already made some errors—or maybe even before you make errors, you're going into a path of error, and then someone puts a stumbling stone before you so that you don't go in that direction. Okay? So a big part of what Eve represents is that good stumbling stone, and, uh, almost every female character

in the Bible is actually an embodiment of that." Always obvious at first glance, this is something that took me a long time to kind of figure out: all the different ways in which you can represent that, like that, um, pattern. It's a big pattern; it's not like a small thing. About half the Bible is about that, so it's not like a small obscure thing that I'm trying to understand. It's half our lives, really, and that's also why it embodies itself into about half the population. When it becomes a political movement, it's not something you can

just ignore. You know, it's not something you can just say, "Oh, this is evil, and we got to destroy it," or something like that. Same thing on the other side, I mean, obviously. But it also doesn't mean we have to go wholeheartedly into that direction all the time. Obviously, like I said before, it can be a trap; it often is a trap. So, we need caution; we need to understand. This is why I'm doing this, because we have to have the discernment to know what is a good stumbling stone and what is a truly adversarial

attack. You know, in order to do that, you have to really understand this pattern, and it creates an entire language. This is what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm going to call my book yet, but right now, in my mind, I'm calling it, um, kind of to mirror my first book. I'm calling it "The Language of Renewal." Okay? So, the first one is "A Language of Creation," and this one is "A Language of Renewal." But I'm not necessarily going to call my book that; this is just my working title, you know—my concept. So, I've

been doing this for a long time now—years, actually. I started this about five or six years ago. I’ve started doing this, but I got to be honest, it's only recently that I've had some breakthroughs. You know, this winter, I had some major struggles, and that kind of taught me a lot of lessons about what I was trying to understand. You know, sometimes you only understand certain things when you're in suffering. It's like there's this thing you can't understand, and then the only way to understand it is through a kind of suffering. The reason you don't

understand in the first place is that you neglect it, ignore it, or it's completely outside of your sphere of what you're interested in and what you're looking at. Obviously, when it's a situation like that, then the only time you can see these things is when you're in pain. Because of the fact that you ignored it, it kind of attacks you. It's actually a microcosm of what's happening to our society right now, actually. I think, in a sense, certain things have been ignored in the past, as if they were just evil; you know, just evil. So,

when you do that, this is what happens: At one point, this thing that you're ignoring and shouldn't completely ignore—because it's part of reality—this thing is going to come and really bite you. You know, until you're almost in submission mode, you're almost in like desperate mode, you know, where you have to acknowledge this. This kind of happened to me this winter. So, this winter, I had a lot of understanding, and recently is when I really started to have huge breakthroughs with what I was trying to understand. I realized at one point—I don't know exactly what made

me realize it, but I think I had maybe a few dreams, and in my dreams, I saw there were some patterns that were related to what was happening to me in real life. Then I realized that what I was looking for already existed. So, it's like I'm trying to not create, but rediscover this thing I was calling "The Language of Renewal." Then I realized that's what dreams are. So, it's like it already exists. When I'm looking for that language, it's called dreams. The dreams express themselves in this language that I'm trying to learn or trying

to rediscover. So, it seems obvious to me now, you know? Once you find something, it's often like that: once you find something, you find it's obvious. I don't know why I didn't see it before, because when we sleep is when we get renewed. So, it's an obvious thing to me now. This dreaming is the expression of what's going on during the renewal. It's like a language that talks about what's happening during this renewal process. So, it's "The Language of Renewal." I wish I would have realized this a long time ago, but maybe I had to

understand a few things before that. So, that's what I'm doing now. I had my own dreams; I started writing my dreams down, which is something I didn't do before. There are a few dreams that I remember from childhood, but they were really, um, I guess, memorable to me, you know? I had a few, maybe one or two, but then I started this—this is when I started writing my dreams down—and then I started definitely seeing some patterns there. I kind of already knew some of it because I wrote it... In my first book, I wrote a

chapter about dreams, and I already understood the basic general concept, but there's a lot to talk about. Um, I had a glimpse of it when I wrote my book, but now that this—now I'm going to specialize in what I'm talking about with this. Um, so then I realized I had to ask people for dreams because I started having doubts about what I was doing. I was saying that I really understood my own dreams at that point. It took me a while—about a year, in fact—to really understand what my dreams were about, and then I started

having doubts. You know, I wondered, is it just my dreams? Is it just me that has these dreams that are expressing these things? So I had to ask around. I asked a few people I know for their dreams, and they gave me dreams—just a few, you know—and they completely fit what I was doing. I understood the dreams. This is the thing I have to say, too: dreams are something you usually can't understand right away. There's so much about this. What I'm saying here is that if someone tells me a dream verbally, I have trouble listening

to it. I listen to it, but for some reason, my mind doesn't register everything. I've had this experience many times; that's why I can describe it. I almost always have to ask the person three, maybe four times, to tell the dream again because my mind doesn't listen. It's as if the person is telling me their dream, and I think I'm listening, you know? Then I realize that I missed some of it because my mind doesn't want to hear it. It's a strange thing; I don’t know exactly why it's like that. But now I've learned, having

been doing this for a few years, I’m able to listen right away. It’s still a little hard, but now I think I really figured out what I was looking for because now when I see a dream, I know immediately what it’s about. But it took me a really long time. So, I had—at one point, I asked on Twitter for some dreams, and that was really when it started unfolding. Everything started unfolding because then I had about maybe 300 dreams to work with, which was really helpful for me because I could compare different dreams. That was

a real breakthrough for me because sometimes, you don’t understand what a dream means at first, but then, whoops, you see another one, and you're like, "Oh, these two are clearly not the same," but they're following the same pattern for some reason. You don’t quite know what it is, but once you have at least two, it creates something in your mind. You see a pattern, even though you don’t understand all the parts of it. Then maybe you see a third one and a fourth one, and it starts to unfold—you start to see that this is not

arbitrary; it's following a certain pattern. So that was really helpful for me. Basically, I've been spending the last few months just cycling through these 300 dreams—cycling through them every time, finding new things. Also, part of the process was to summarize the dreams. I had to summarize them because there are lots of details, you know? Like everything, there are details that you don’t necessarily want to put to memory or try to understand. So I summarized—I tried to make about one sentence for each dream, but I still kept the detailed versions, obviously. For my memory, it’s good

too because now I almost know them by heart—you know, just a sentence that describes each one. So that was helpful, too. I did this work for a long time now, and just recently, I really had some major breakthroughs. Now I think I’m done; I think I figured out everything I needed to understand. Of course, there are still things that I could understand, but I understand everything that's not a detail, let’s say it like that. I understand the pattern. So that's what I've been doing now. I mean, we could talk about it, but we'll see. So,

yeah, that's right; I'm answering your question basically because I don't want to give away everything, you know? What I've been working on for so long, just to give it away like that. Um, so I'm kind of being careful. I don’t want to talk too much, but I could still talk about it. So, um, can you just give an overview of what the feminine and masculine are? Okay, um, what they are? Well, right now, I'm studying—not really studying feminine as a whole—I'm studying a certain aspect, okay? Because the other aspect is not hard to understand. So

that's like I'm going to start talking like a feminist here, but there’s a male-centric definition of male and a male-centric definition of female. Then you can say there’s a female-centric definition of female and a female-centric definition of male. You can see it like that because I think it's correct to see it like that. I don't think it's an exaggeration. Can tell you what you are, right, but it's not always pleasant to have someone else tell us what we are. It's fine to accept some of that. You know, you can tell me what I am a

little bit, but don't go too far because I also am allowed to exist on my own. You know, I'm also allowed to define myself in a way. You know, it doesn't have to be extremes. It doesn't have to be that I either let you define me completely or I define myself completely; it's just ridiculous. It's two things, you know? Some of it is someone imposing meaning on me, and some of it is me trying to make my own meaning. So that's kind of what happens here. I talked about this in my book; I can repeat

it. In one sense, it's the male perspective. I think I described it as imposing meaning on nature—or we can replace "nature" with just "reality." Basically, it doesn't have to be nature, but "nature" is what's there already before we intervene in it. So it's okay to say "nature," too, because it includes everything. But imposing meaning on nature—that's why Adam names the animals. That's what it means; it's pretty obvious once you start understanding these things. In that sense, we could say that the male is responsible for civilization, okay? In that sense, in the sense that that's what

civilization is: imposing meaning on reality. We can also say that the concept of just work goes with the masculine side, okay? Because that's what work is. Work is imposing your will upon reality and making something out of what's there from the plan that you have, from your idea. So that's the masculine—that's how I understand it; I think that's what it is in the Bible. But it's more complicated than that, because, see, well, we can get to that later. That doesn't mean every man in the Bible fits that definition. Because of what I said before, some

men that are masculine, still in the Bible, that are male, are doing the job of Eve, let's say it like that. They're doing the job of Eve; they're male feminists, you know? But it doesn't have to be a bad thing. You know, see, that's the thing. Right-wingers should be careful, you know? There are things in reality that if you ignore, they're going to come and attack you. You have to not fall for the whole thing but not reject the whole thing either, okay? So an example of a male feminist—I'm going to start saying that ironically—but

it's Joseph, okay? Joseph is an example. He's male, obviously; he's not a woman, but he does the pattern of what Eve does. Like he's a messenger of that pattern; he's embodying that pattern. So that's what I was saying before. You just have to understand that male as male and then male as working for Eve. So that's how you do it. And then you could do the opposite, too. You could say someone could be female and working for Adam in the sense that she is doing this job of imposing meaning on reality or letting meaning being

imposed, participating in that. You're working for Adam, we can say it like that. I'm making these terms up here because I don't know what else to say. So, okay, so in the female side, if we look at the perspective of Eve—and this is what I'm working on, that aspect—I'm disguising myself as a left-winger, basically. I kind of am, in a way. I mean, look at me; I look like a hippie. So I'm not completely in foreign territory, but I don't want the fight. See, I don't want the left and the right to be fighting. We're

supposed to be a couple. You know, left and right are a couple; it's not supposed to be mortal enemies like two countries against each other. That's a different story. It's supposed to be men and women going together, so it's obvious what I'm saying here. But there, we're being attacked right now, so we have to restate obvious things, right? So, yeah, the female role that is on her own—that is her own thing that she does not, when she's listening to Adam—is called the renewal, okay? We could call it something else, but that's what I'm calling it

because I don't know what else to call it. So it's death and renewal, okay? So that's the role of Eve. It's related to sleep. So Adam is related to work, which is imposing meaning on reality, having a plan, and then building things up toward that plan. So it's symbolized by a pyramid, something standing upright, because that's what you do when you accumulate things toward a goal. You make them serve the goal; you're building a pyramid, basically. And the other one is related to sleep. So, falling asleep is what Eve represents, okay? That's her job, okay?

But see, when it says down with things like feminist stuff, like "down with the patriarchy," okay? "Down with the patriarchy"—that's what happens when I fall asleep every day: down with the patriarchy. So what I'm not even—it's not even a metaphor here; this is, you know, when I'm standing up during... The day, and I'm working—that's the patriarchy, right? That's my mind imposing on my body what to do. You do this; my body is like, "Okay," doesn't really have a choice, right? But it has somewhat of a choice. It's not true, um, but then what happens? Every

night, my mind kind of loses it; I go crazy. You know, I start getting a little bit confused about things, depending on how late it is. And, uh, you know, I lose focus. My body becomes weak. It's almost a sickness, right? It's like a sickness; being tired is a sickness. I think this is what I'm going to talk about in my book in detail, but it's the prototype of being sick. Okay, you get sick when you fall asleep. Basically, it's like you're intoxicated; you're poisoned. So I'm not a doctor, obviously, or anything like that, but

I think that that's literally what it is. When we fall asleep, there must be some kind of toxin inside our body that's released. Maybe they don't call it a toxin; maybe this exists in the medical world that I don't really know about because I'm not really interested in these things. I'm interested in healing, but not necessarily the way it's done today by modern science. They probably don't call it a toxin—this substance that makes you fall asleep—but I see it as a toxin. It's like you're stuck; you're bitten by a snake inside your body, okay? And

then this makes it so it's like you're intoxicated. You lose your vision, you lose your orientation, you lose your sense of time, you lose consciousness; you're paralyzed. It's like you're dead. It's like you've been bitten by a snake or a scorpion, right? So this is the role of Eve—to do this thing right here. It's very strange because it looks like it's an enemy, right? I get, you know, I'm working all day, making everything work, making everything follow my will. You know, like this thing goes here, I'm building something; you know, this thing goes here. I'm

telling material reality where it's going to go, what it's going to do, including my body. I'm telling my body, my hand: I'm telling my hand, "Grab this brick, put it there," you know? But this thing has a limit. At one point, I get tired; I fall asleep, and I'm defenseless and paralyzed. You know, and then I go into this illusionary world. See, I fall into myself, and then I'm trapped into a world of isolation—okay, darkness and isolation. And then what happens? My eyes open, but it's like inner eyes, right? Eyes that are looking inward. And

then I'm in this other world of illusions. It's like a temporary world, right? Because things don't accumulate in that world. You know, when I work, I get up the next morning, my stuff that I did is still there. You know, in that sense, it's a world of accumulation; that's why it's a pyramid, too. Things don't just disappear; it's a world of relative permanence, right? But then the sleep world is a world of relative impermanence. So you can have recurring dreams, but every time it starts over. You know, it's things you do in the dream world,

and then when you wake up, it's completely gone, and you're probably not going to see that again in a dream. So it's a world of impermanence, and it's like an illusionary world. So this is what Eve does. So it's—this is a very iffy subject, but I'm going to do it; I don't care. So Eve creates a world of illusions. One might even say lies, right? That's what illusions are. And then in order to renew, fix something, heal something, because when we're tired, it's like we're sick. This is important to understand; I don't think a lot

of people make this connection, but it's obvious. It's like you're sick; you're falling asleep—it's like you're dying. But this sleep is done for the purpose of healing you. So this is the real meaning of the snake that heals. The snake is, is what I'm saying here—you get stung by a snake, and it makes you fall in order to heal you. Okay, and that not to be confused with the other snake that wants to kill you. That's the thing; we always have to remember both, because it's easy to then become completely ridiculous and fall into this

"Oh, anytime I get poisoned, it's good." No, it's not good—sometimes someone is trying to kill you. Like, that's what the story of Samson and Delilah means, right? She is not a good woman; she is the enemy. But this is how—why this subject is iffy and difficult, because of course, she's going to pretend she's the good woman. See, you can't know easily what the difference is because if the good woman poisons you in order to heal you, that's an easy in for the bad—your enemy that pretends to be your friend in order to kill you easily,

right? So Delilah, she looks like a good woman. You know, she has him sleep on her lap. You see? That's why she's doing that, because whoever wrote that story understands deeply what I'm talking about here. She's making him sleep; now he trusts her—big mistake. She was an enemy, and then she tries to bind him. We all know the story. And then she tries to get him killed—basically captured by the enemy. So he becomes a... Prisoner: Um, so yeah, you can see how this subject is very, uh, it’s not an easy one because people today have

a tendency of doing this thing where it’s all or nothing. It’s always all or nothing! Calm down; you can just understand some aspect, and you don’t have to go nuts in that direction, you know? You don’t have to start bowing before your enemy now because you understand this idea that sometimes your enemy is good, you know? You don’t have to start hurting yourself, you know, or all this madness. These are all due to people seeing a truth because it’s kind of an esoteric truth what I’m talking about. Why is it esoteric? Let’s say it’s because

sleep is not a public thing; it’s a private thing. It’s a secret thing. It’s, by definition, secret. You go into your dream world; nobody knows about it. It’s you; it’s secret; it’s, by definition. So, the whole idea of the occult comes from this, okay? It comes from the analogies of the sleep world, which is a secret place that you go. A lot of occult powers are perversions of this, by the way. So, I don’t know; maybe it’s not a good idea to get into this, but I could just mention at least that a lot of

the occult is a perversion of sleep. It’s either taking this power of sleep, which is supposed to be for healing and renewal, and then using that energy of renewal for something else—some purpose that’s not renewal, some purpose that is usually adversarial. Okay, so occult powers and sleep are very related. It’s the same energy, but it’s used for different reasons, you see? And, yeah, people who can’t sleep usually—who can’t rest—like I think we talked about this, right? Vampires, if I recall? Yeah, so a vampire is an example of someone who can’t sleep, and then the occult

powers of the vampire actually come from the fact that he can’t sleep. This is kind of weird what I’m saying, but the powers of sleep, instead of using them for sleep, he’s using them for other purposes, okay? So, for him to renew himself, he has to get that somewhere else, which is symbolized by the blood of an innocent person that doesn’t know what’s happening, right? And, by the way, I don’t know if I mentioned this last time, because blood is about renewal. Blood is the liquid of renewal. So, you get injured quite literally. Everything I

say, by the way, is almost always quite literally. That’s the thing: we’ve got to be careful when we talk about symbolism because it can easily go into this metaphorical world of—I’m not interested in that. I’m interested in the literal stuff, but there’s a kind of a literal you can expand on and then just generalize from that, right? So, for example, everything I said about sleep at the individual level, you can apply it to a civilization. A civilization also sleeps; civilization also works. So, in that sense, it’s not like a metaphor or a negative side of

what I—it’s just a part of symbolism that’s just not interesting to me. It’s like just random associations, you know? Again, symbolism has a bad name, actually. You’re not supposed to assign meaning to things; you’re supposed to find the meaning of the thing, you see? Then understand all the implications of that. It’s not the same. So, if you ask me, for example, what’s the meaning of a cup? I’ve been thinking a lot about that recently. So, like, the Grail. What’s the Grail, you know? And it’s in a lot of stories too. So, you’re not supposed to

impose meaning upon this object, okay, in some philosophical way. You’re supposed to understand what a cup is, you know? So, what’s a cup? A cup is a vessel of refreshment, something like that. It’s a vessel that you use to refresh yourself. Now, if I just say that, it sounds not profound, but that’s just because most people don’t know what the importance of refreshment is, see? So, if you think this thing called refreshment is not important, then if I say the Grail is a vessel of refreshment, then it’s going to look like I’m not saying anything

important, obviously, right? So, this is why sometimes people go off with metaphors and stuff. Oh, I don’t even know what I would want to give as an example of bad symbolism, but I don’t know. I can’t; my mind hates so much this kind of symbolism that I can’t even pretend to do it. So, I don’t know. The Grail is, well, like in Da Vinci’s Code. There you go; see? I didn’t even have to make it up. I feel better now! So, the Grail represents the Royal Blood, the royal lineage, okay? Really, why? You know why?

Because it holds the blood—is that the reason? Because other cups that are also in ancient stories and even in the Bible don’t have blood in them. So, why is it that it’s not—sorry, but it is about blood though, because blood is a renewal; it’s the liquid of refreshment, of renewal. So, it does work. And usually, it’s wine or water, but the idea is if you understand the concept of renewal and refreshment, then you understand what the Grail is. If you don’t, you don’t. So, and it’s like it’s part of the symbolism I’m talking about. About

here, so actually, if some of you want to understand, for example, what’s the Grail, I could say you find the Grail when you go to sleep. See, that would be more meaningful than all the crap that’s being said out there because when you fall asleep, you get renewed. So falling asleep is the Grail. I could say that too, okay? And this is why, in the stories, when they go looking for the Grail, they always end up in exile, losing control, going back to nature, not being in control of things, losing their direction, and not knowing

what they’re doing—losing even their quest to find the Grail. You see? That’s what happens when you fall asleep. See, you think you’re going on a quest for the Grail. It’s like you think when you sleep, you think you’re going to work. Your mind thinks with a narrative of work most of the time: “I’m doing something. I’m going somewhere.” And specifically, “I’ve got this goal, this plan that I’m working towards.” That’s how our mind is used to thinking more like that. Okay, when you fall asleep, what happens? This narrative of working gets twisted and falls apart,

okay? And you lose everything that your narrative usually functions on, okay? Until you completely have no more purpose, and you lose completely your sense of working, and now you’re in rest. Okay? So now you’ve found the Grail, and now you get renewed, and now you get back up. Now you’re back again; you return to nature. This is one way to see it: finding the Grail is returning to nature because nature renews. That’s why. Because going to nature means you stop controlling; you stop working. Okay? When you’re awake, you control your body. If you want to

renew, what do you do? You let go of your— you lose control of your body. Your mind doesn’t tell your body what to do anymore. You’re going back to nature; your body now belongs to nature when you’re sleeping. We can say it like that. And then that’s when the renewal happens. Now, this is a complicated subject. I won’t get into that here. Um, why does it renew when we lose control and when we go back to nature? This is something I’m going to keep for my book. Um, it’s the answer also to why there’s exile—why

sometimes people go into exile. It’s the same reason. Um, so yeah, so that’s the feminine, right? The feminine is—so that was your original question. Sorry for the parenthesis within parentheses within parentheses, but that’s how my mind works. So, um, yeah, it’s like the Grail. The Eve, her purpose is like the Grail. Okay? It’s about renewal. It’s about making Adam lose control, putting him into a world of illusions, putting him into what I now call a holding pattern. Okay? So it’s—I don’t know how to say better than holding pattern. You’re in a pattern of not doing

anything. So either you’re turning in circles or you’re waiting for something; you’re stuck, you know? You’re stuck in mud, something like that, until you’re renewed, and then you can let go, and then you’re back to normal again. So, so yeah, like I was saying, it’s an iffy subject. And even in the Bible, I know that I’m right because all the stories in the Bible could confirm what I’m thinking now. Now that I understand this language enough, I see clearly that all the stories in the Bible are about that. And they’re often weird stories that we

kind of don’t like because we interpret the Bible more morally. We think there’s always a little moral conclusion to it, but it’s not about that, really. Okay? That doesn’t take away morality, though, but it’s not that. So when we see Rebecca doing things like tricking her husband, disguising her second son as her first son in order for the second one to get the blessing, she’s putting him into a world of illusion. You see? And see, when it says that Isaac was blind—okay, why is he blind? Because that’s what happens when you fall asleep. You go

blind. See, it’s just an example. When you start to understand these patterns, you start to understand these stories. They’re not that hard to understand. It’s only they look weird because we neglect this whole side of reality, which is sleeping. We neglect it. It’s like it’s not important; we don’t think about it. And if we did think about it, which is what I’m doing, we would see these patterns as not weird. So in the Bible, there are a few of these holding patterns. Someone wants to do something, and he’s being held. So it’s like there’s a

distraction. It’s usually written in a way where it’s repeated again and again and again. It’s like you’re doing—you want to do something? No, no, no, don’t go; stay. He stays another day. Okay? He wants to go? No, don’t go; stay. This is called a holding pattern. In the Bible, the most obvious holding pattern is the one I’m describing. Uh, it’s in the Book of Judges, near the end there. And it’s the Levite, I think, and this like, his horror wife, and then he wants to go. And then the father keeps them there for many days.

Just— it’s like when you don’t know this, you’re like, “What is this talking—why is this in this story? What is this?” But now... To me, it's, I understand it now; it's not weird at all. It's something that we all go through every day when we fall asleep. Okay, it's a holding pattern. Now, I looked at, like I said, hundreds of dreams, so now I'm really, really confident that this is the pattern. One of the parts of the dream is called the holding pattern, which is what I call the holding pattern, and it's very clear when

you know this. You see it, and it's like you see in the dream, "Oh, this is the holding pattern." Okay, there you go. It looks weird, but it's not that weird. Um, maybe I could give you an example of what I call a holding pattern. Okay, here's an example. There are lots of airport scenes in dreams, like people who are in an airport. I never would have guessed this before I looked at a bunch of dreams, but now I know because I saw it. It's like people are in the airport. Okay, why? The reason is

that's a holding pattern; when you're in an airport, okay? And it's a particularly good symbol for sleeping because, well, like I said before, dreams are just a narrative of falling asleep. Okay, that's important: just a narrative of falling asleep and waking up. But there are so many ways to express that—there are many, many ways. Sometimes I'm amazed; like every time I get a new dream, I'm like, "Wow, this is beautiful!" I don't know what part of us makes these dreams, but it's really clever. It's like really smart to put all these things together to make

a narrative that doesn't look coherent, but it's actually always quite glaring when you know what it's talking about. If you don't know what it's talking about, it looks random, but it's not. So, in an airport, it's a good symbol of sleeping because, yeah, you land on a plane—that's falling asleep—you wait at the airport; that's the holding pattern, and then you catch your next plane. That's getting up, getting back out. Okay, so that's just one example. But I just wanted to give an example of a holding pattern. So that's one: waiting at an airport after you

landed from one plane and waiting for the next. That's a holding pattern when you're at the airport. Lots of dreams happen at airports, but that's just one among many possible examples. Okay, I'll give you another easy one. Um, there are lots of dreams in jail or prison because it's a holding pattern. Okay, so you're in prison; it's just a representation of sleeping because when you fall asleep, you're paralyzed. You're stuck in this little world of isolation, and you're stuck there until you are rehabilitated, you know, like in a prison. You just have to stay there.

You know that's what prison is, right? You go there; you're stuck in this little tiny cell, this little world, which in your dreams is a representation of you're stuck in your body. You're stuck in your little cell, and you're not interacting much with others. You know, like when you sleep, you're not interacting. You're talking to yourself mostly, you know, until you can just leave. Now you're rehabilitated. See, it's the same pattern. And there are lots of dreams in prison. Uh, another example—I’m just going to give a couple of examples here. Um, there are lots of

dreams in hospitals for the same reason. Because you're in a hospital—why? When you're in a hospital, usually it's because, obviously, you're sick, which is what happens when you fall asleep. It's a kind of a sickness; it's analogous. You're weak; you're losing control of yourself; you're sick. Basically, you fall asleep. Okay, that's like going into the hospital, going into the waiting room or something like that to see your doctor. Okay, you're just waiting there. Um, and then the thing is, just the waiting is where you get healed. See? So it’s kind of like in prison; you're

being rehabilitated by just being in prison and waiting. So the same thing happens in the hospital, basically. You wait. I mean, um, so there are lots of dreams in hospitals because, again, these are good representations of what's happening during this sleep. So I could give a lot of examples, but I think that's enough for that pattern there. Um, so I used to—when I saw this in dreams, I used to think it was totally random. You know, when I saw a dream like, "Oh, airport? That's such a boring dream too." You know, I was like, "Why?

What is this dream about airports?" But now, after looking at a few of them, you know, I started to figure out what it meant. So these are just examples. But yeah, could you talk a bit about Mary as it relates to, like, the role of the feminine? I'm not gonna talk about Mary. Okay, I don't talk about Christianity, and it's not because I'm not a Christian or because I don't like Christianity; it's actually the opposite. [Music] Um, Christianity is the highest level of it, okay? And, um, I think we've lost the ancient worldview. I've said

this before, but I'll say it again: we've lost it. Okay? And, um, there are many reasons for why we lost it. I mean, I don't necessarily want to go into it, um, but it's usually about—we tried to integrate certain things that we couldn't or that we shouldn't have, such as materialism. But there's other things that we tried to integrate. Thinking that we could—and when I say "we," I mean Christianity, the Christian civilization—we thought we could absorb certain things and then make them part of us, like members of us, making them into things that follow the

Christian principle, which is Christ, obviously. Um, maybe at first it looked like it was working, kind of like if you eat a poisoned fruit, you might not realize right away that you're sick. It's going to take a little time; you know, maybe an hour later you'll start feeling weird. You know, but for that hour after you've eaten the poisoned fruit, maybe you think you're on top of it. "I just ate this poisoned fruit; no problem. You know, I'm still okay, no worries." Then an hour later or two hours later, then whoops! "Why am I dizzy?

Why am I hallucinating? Why am I falling asleep?" Yeah, you see, it's all related to the subject in question. But, um, yeah, because you ate something that you weren't supposed to, or you tried to integrate something into yourself that did not belong. Okay, now later you got sick, and then parts of your body were not serving Christ anymore but were serving something else. They were in your body, and you thought it was the body of Christ, but it wasn't—it was something else. Something else, like when you eat poison. You eat something toxic, you want to

make it part of your body, but it rejects it. It doesn't follow what your mind tells it to do; it follows some other weird thing that you don't necessarily know what it is, and then you lose control of your body. You know, you fall, um, you get crazy. Yeah, your mind—you lose it. You know, because when you eat something poisonous, you hallucinate. You know, you even—if you just drink, by the way, it doesn't take much. Just drink some water with some salt in it. I'm not actually suggesting this, by the way; don't do it. But

you know, drink some water—just a little bit of salt water—you'll hallucinate! I mean, it doesn't take much to make us go crazy. You know, you think you're drinking from a clean stream, but actually, it's a stream that comes from salt water, and you taste it—it tastes fine, doesn't taste salty or anything like that. It looks clean. You drink it, and then ten hours later you're seeing things. You know, this is real! So it doesn't take that much to go crazy. So you got to be careful what you eat; you got to be careful what you

integrate. Um, now the thing is, I think Christ can integrate everything, but that doesn't mean you have to. It's not—I don't think it's... See, that's the thing, okay? It's not because something's possible that you can always do it. Um, now, you know, there are some things that only later you should do. This is just—I mean, I'm saying common sense stuff here. I mean, when you build anything, you got to start with a foundation. Then, at the end, you reach some other point of construction, and when you're at the construction, you can't touch the foundations anymore.

You know, there's an order to things. And so, that doesn't mean everything can't be integrated by Christ, but I think there were mistakes made at one point, and I think things were attempted to be integrated, and then it took a few centuries, maybe even, and then the poison that was eaten started taking over. Then this poison put itself above the other thing, and then the other thing was lost because of it. So I don't want to get too much into detail here, but that's—I'm just describing generally how I see things. Now, uh, so what do

we have to do? We have to go back a little. We have to do what Eve... Eve's job, I think, is to fix these problems. She has to go back—go back! You know, before we could go forward a little bit. And then this is like, for example, if you eat poisoned fruit, how do you—what do you do? You have to vomit. It's crude, but you get the poison out. You vomit, and now you're okay. Okay, good! It wasn't that hard, right? Just get rid of it. The longer it takes you to vomit, though, the more

trouble you're going to be in. Right? Um, so now I think it's been a while; maybe we should have vomited a while ago. We didn't, so now it's going to be hard. I don't know what else to say. Um, yeah, so, um, there are lots of examples of the patterns I'm talking about in the Bible. Um, well, we spoke about last time. I think we spoke about one of the examples, which is Tamar, the story of Tamar—it's a clear example of what I'm talking about here. A mistake was made by Judah; he tried to marry

a strange woman, a foreign woman. [Music] Um, and then—see, this is a good example, a very good example, because what he tried to integrate at that time he was not able to, but that doesn't mean later he wouldn't be able to. And he was okay because, uh, this actually interesting, um, the woman that Judah tried to take as his wife was called, um, she was the daughter of Shua. Okay, so it's Bathua, and so this—he wasn't... Able to, at that time, and because of that, Tamar had to do her world of illusions. She had to

put him into a world of, uh, illusion—a sleep illusion—in order to retract what he had done, okay, and then start over. Okay, um, and this is the sleeping pattern that she did on him, okay? So she made him go in circles, come back on himself. Um, later, when does this happen? The daughter of Shua is integrated later. Um, this is B'Sheba, okay? That's who she is because—I'm not making this up, um—in the Bible, um, B'Sheba, the wife of, uh, David, um, she's also called Bat-Sheva. So, I think it's in the book of Chronicles; they call

her, instead of B'Sheba, they call her Bat-Sheva. It's very close, those two words, because, you know, in Hebrew there's a letter called Vav and there's a letter called Beth. And so, Beth is V or B sometimes—V sometimes, B depending—and then the other letter called Vav is sometimes V also, sometimes W, sometimes like an O sound, like a vowel, okay? So, that's what we have here, and that, she—it's just the B that's replaced by the other letter, okay? But it's the same sound. The people who wrote this knew what they were doing, okay? This is not

a coincidence. So, like I said, in the book of Chronicles, B'Sheba is called Bat-Sheva. So, she's called the daughter of Shua because they want us to understand what's going on here. They want us to understand that whoever wrote this, or put those texts together, wanted us to know that, um, Judah back then tried to integrate B'Sheba—she was called Bat-Sheva—and he failed, but then only later was he able to integrate her, and she gave birth to Solomon by, through David, okay? So, long, long story. I could get into it here; maybe one day for sure, I'm

going to explain all these things. But for now, I think that's an interesting point, kind of what I parallel to what I was saying before: it's not because you can't integrate something now that you can't integrate it later. And that's extremely important to understand. It's not all or nothing; some things can happen in between and make it possible for you to integrate. Um, certain processes can happen; things can change. Um, you can reach a certain point in your development where now you can handle it. Now I can integrate Bat-Sheva, you know? Before I couldn't; now

I can. So, by the way, since we talked about last time, maybe I can add something to that interpretation of that, um, Tamar story. It's one of my favorite stories because it's, it's relevant to the subject I'm talking about here with Eve and everything. So, um, in the story, she tricks him—she tricks Judah. She disguised herself as a prostitute, right? Um, in order to trick Judah into having a child with her, basically, okay? Um, yeah, that's part of the illusion world that I was talking about before. She puts him into a world of illusion, and

then, um, it says—yeah, we talked about this last time—he didn't have anything to pay, okay, for the services, you know, prostitution services, and so he left her his staff, his signet ring, and his cordon, it says in the story, okay? So this, by the way, is important because it's a good symbol; it's a good representation of the concept of credit—buying on credit. It's a very important concept in the Bible; I don't think a lot of people understand all the implications of this credit thing. I wish we did, because we're in trouble now because of it—our

society as a whole, because of the credit thing. If we only understood this, we could have avoided some problems that we're going to go through now. But, um, see, he was able to buy the services on credit, right? Because he didn't have what it took to pay for it then. So, that's part of her trick, but it doesn't matter; the situation is the same. So, the idea with credit is, um, what are you exchanging for the services if you can't pay for it? And the answer is your identity, okay? So when you borrow on credit,

when you borrow money, and you pay for something on credit, you're paying with your identity, okay? Your reputation—it's a big deal. So, thinking that you're getting it for free is foolish; you know you're not getting it for free. You're putting at stake your reputation, which is the only—the most important thing you have. It's like your soul or something. So, I'm putting as collateral my name, my identity, and here it was to sleep with a prostitute. So it's like they were—the lowest possible thing, you know? Um, and that's the danger of credit. It's like a trap;

you know, you think you're getting something, but it's not really yours—in exchange, you—you put your identity hostage, okay? And then, until you pay, you repay the debt, um, you belong to the creditor. Basically, you're—at a deep level, your reputation, your identity, your soul belongs to the creditor, okay? So, but in this case, it's good because she was an example of the good stumbling stone. She was an example of the E pattern that I'm describing here—she was doing it for his own good, you know? But that's not always... The case, obviously, it's rare—very rare. So, um,

regarding that symbolism, I'm trying to see if I can make myself talk about the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad or not, or um, okay, I'll say something else first. Um, in that story, I mentioned this in my book too, *The Crimson Thread*. Okay, this is very interesting symbolism. It's very, let's say, powerful; there's lots of information contained in that little symbolism there—Crimson Thread. Um, see, in the story, it says, like I said before, she gets his staff, his signet ring, and his thread. What is that thread? So, obviously, it seems important in

the story because why would it mention this thing? We understand the signet ring and staff—it's not hard to understand. I mean, the signet ring is just your name, basically, right? That's what it is; you put your name on it. Somebody could forge stuff with your signet ring if they have it, so it's like they have you. It's like they have your name; they can do things in your name now, and you're going to be responsible for it, so it's a big deal. Um, and the staff represents his lineage, okay, in that story because that's what

a staff is—it's a branch of a tree. It represents your lineage. So, he's—Judah is one of the staffs of Jacob Israel; he's one of the tribes. Tribes means staff, and in Hebrew, tribes is a staff. So, because it's a branch of a tree, it's all about a tree growing—it's a lineage. So, he gives her his branch, basically, his lineage, and that's literally what happens too because then his lineage belongs to her because his kids die, and then she gets new kids out of her. It's like he gave her the lineage of Judah—it's a big deal.

Okay, but what's this thread? So, this is something I didn't know before, and I talked to someone recently that I just met, randomly on the internet, and I asked him, "What is this thread?" You know, somebody who knows more about these traditions than me, you know, because there's some of it in the Bible that's historical stuff that if you don't know, you don't know. What are you going to do? I mean, so I asked, "What is this thread?" And it's interesting what he said. He said the thread is a blue thread—it's called the blue thread—and

this is the thread that they put on their garments, the corners of the garments. Okay, um, and it's also something else that I didn't know. This is the part I didn't know before; it's like a seal, okay? It's like a thread—a blue thread that you use as a seal to make sure something wasn't tampered with. So, for example, it's kind of like a wax seal, right? You put a wax seal on an envelope, and you put your signet ring on it. Um, it's a way to ensure that something was not tampered with, especially if it's

a letter or a message or a contract or something like that, right? It wasn't tampered with, so now you know if the seal wasn't broken. So, that thread is like a seal like that—it's a blue thread that was really, really expensive because that dye was really expensive. So what you could do to make sure something wasn't tampered with is put a blue thread like that in some way where you had to break the thread in order to break the seal—exactly like a seal, you know? So, we're used to that concept still because we had it

in Western culture too; you know, every culture has this idea of a seal. So, the blue thread is a seal, okay, that you put, and it's so expensive that a crook wouldn't have the means necessarily to break that seal and put another one to replace it—to fake that it wasn't tampered with—because it's too expensive. So, it's like not worth it. So, I mean, it's kind of like the same thing when we print money. When the government prints money, it prints it in a way that it can't be duplicated by some amateur. Uh, maybe today, who

can, because of technology, but in the past, you know, nobody could afford a printing press, so it's not easy for some dude in his basement to make fake money. It's printed in a very fine way, so it's kind of the same thing. I mean, you're not going to make fake money if it costs you more to make the fake money. You know, if it costs you more to buy a printing press than you will get from the fake money. So, similarly here, you're not going to break this seal in order to steal something or whatever

if replacing the seal costs you more, you know? So, it's along those lines. But so, that's what the thread is. So, there's the blue thread, and then later in the story, Tamar, it says that she put a red thread around the arm of the child that was being born, okay? Um, because it's her children at the end that Judah has; it kind of replaces his lineage, um, because his children died. So, this thread, okay—the crimson thread—is the opposite of the blue thread. This is something I didn't know before, but now I understand. So, the blue

thread is a seal, and the red thread represents the opposite of a seal. So, what's the opposite of a seal? It's infiltration—something. Like that? This was tampered with; this was altered. That's what the Red Thread means: the opposite of a blue thread. The blue thread tells you it hasn't been altered. It's about integrity, right? Things have remained kept their integrity, and the Red Thread means infiltration or that something has been tampered with. So that's what it represents. Um, that's what it represents in this story of Jericho. Joshua goes to Rahab the prostitute, and she lets

down a red thread to have them escape. See, it has the same meaning in that story too; it means infiltration. There was an infiltration right here; that's where you see the thread. Okay, it's infiltration and exfiltration. I don't think that's a word, but I mean the thing was able to escape too. So, here, but usually this is bad, right? Usually, infiltration is bad; tampering is bad. These are all bad things, so that's kind of a stumbling stone theme, right? You're fallen; you've been infiltrated; you've been tampered with; you've been corrupted. But in this example, it's

good. So that's what a good stumbling stone, a good example of it, is Tamar—a very simple example of it. Um, yeah. By the way, this is something I wanted to share. See about the Crimson Thread—I’ve never seen anyone say this before; maybe someone has, but I didn't catch it, so I'll say it. The thread is called Crimson. Crimson is in Hebrew, okay? It’s שַׁנָּה (shani), and the word is very interesting. It comes from the same word as “year,” okay? A year or a cycle. And it means a lot of things. This is actually a good

proof if anyone wants proof that the patterns I describe in my book are the right ones to understand the Bible. This is a good example because it means a year—a cycle. It means, just in general, change; it means something diverse, different. It means disguise. These are all the meanings of the same word, Crimson. So it also means to redo, to repeat, to do again, okay? So it means two, like the second—second one. See, in this story, we understand all this meaning because that's what Tamar is all about; it's like a second chance. Okay, you do

the first one; it was done wrong. Well, we'll do it again. We'll erase it. It's also part of going back. You go back; you revert what was done, and then you do it. You have another chance. Now you do it again, so it’s all the symbolism of two, right? Do again, redo, redoing things. So this is what happens when you sleep generally because you work all day, you get tired, and now you start to make mistakes. You're in danger of making mistakes when you're tired. If you go work outside—I’ve had this experience, you know? You're

building something outside and it's getting dark. You're getting tired; now you're going to make some mistakes. You know you're dumb if you keep going; you’re going to make some critical mistakes, especially if you're in the woods somewhere. You don't want to make a mistake; you can get in real trouble if you cut yourself in the woods, you know? So if you're smart, you're going to stop. But this is what happens when you fall asleep. It's the same thing; you're starting to make mistakes, starting to fall, and then sleep allows you a second chance. You get

renewed, and then you wake up, and then you restart your day. Okay, so the restart of the day means second chance. So these are all the meanings of Crimson Thread. Crimson means everything I just said here, which is a lot. I mean, there's a lot included there. So, the concept of a cycle, redoing, the concept of a year, the concept of change, alteration—how do you say that? I was talking about tampering. You see, something has been changed; it has been altered. Usually, these are all bad things. You see, I mean, you don't want that. You

don’t want corruption; it’s called corruption usually; it’s called contamination, you know? But in this case, it's good. So, a good example of Eve—this is very mysterious patterns, but we have to learn them now because we're in trouble, so it's time to understand these things again. Um, there's something else I wanted to say—oh yes, oh yes. This pattern goes ahead to the story of David because, in the story of David, like I said, Batsheva represents—not the same, but represents—so in that story too, same thing. He sinned; David made a sin. He's not supposed to get her;

that’s Batsheva, somebody else's wife. So he does a pretty big sin there, sending him to war for the purpose of getting killed. We talked about this last time, or maybe I'm confusing it with someone else; it doesn't matter. And then David, what happens? The first child he has with Batsheva dies, okay? And then the second child represents this second chance, you know? So there's like the death and rebirth. So it's the same pattern because, in the story of Judah, that's what happens. He has some kids with Batsheva, and they die. And then Tamar comes and

flips it around, reverses the thing, and then she gets a second chance. So David represents that—the second chance or the good alteration. And also, this is why David is... Is a foreigner; it has a foreign lineage because it represents the infiltration—see the foreign infiltration into Judah through Moab. Um, is David. But it's usually, this is the bad thing—see, that's the thing; usually it's a bad thing, but now it's a good thing. And when is David? So David represents this very rare situation where the negative—the infiltration or the alteration or the corruption—is actually good because you

were going in a wrong path anyway. See, it's like you're sick; you're sick, you got to be healed. So it's like you get bitten by a snake, and then after that, you need to take the antidote, which is made from the venom of the snake. So now, now the venom is good because it's going to heal you. But the first—so it's like, see, this is all double; it's already related to like two negatives, you know? It's like two wrongs make it right, literally, that's what it is, actually. Um, so yeah, these things are all related

to the pattern of sleep. This is what I'm interested in. Um, this is just a good example of this pattern in the Bible, but in my book that I'm writing now, I’m going to mostly be talking about dreams. See, but it is that pattern, so I’m going to be explaining this pattern but only talking about dreams. Um, because all the dreams are about this pattern. And this is why many people don't recognize these patterns when they read them in the Bible—because they ignore dreams, you know? Not just ignore your dreams, right? Uh, well, that depends—if

you want to understand these things, then no. So that's what I gave myself this mission: you know, you're going to understand this thing called Exile, you're going to understand this thing called Death, dreams, sleep. So I think I'm now basically ready to just write my book. So that's what I'm doing. This is why I'm doing this interview. I don't like doing interviews—I mean, I've told you this too; it's not a big secret. Um, not a big fan of public appearance, you know, it's how I think. So, but I'm doing it now because I think the

reason is, I feel indebted to the people who just sent me their dreams. You know, that's—it's like I gotta prepay in some way. I will with my book, but I feel like I have to, I don't know, maybe acknowledge it, you know? Acknowledge everyone who sent me their dream; it helped. I wouldn't have done it without those dreams, there's no doubt about it. Uh, so thanks—thanks to everyone. You won't regret it. I mean, a lot of you who sent the dreams, you'll see them in the book. Uh, I’m going to have to ask permission, I

guess. Um, that was dumb—I should have stated that at the beginning, that if you sent me your dream, you're giving me permission to use it. I forgot to do that, so I’m going to have to ask a bunch of people if they think I can have permission because I think you have to have permission or else there's something weird about it. Um, I'm not going to mention people's names or anything, you know, and that would be useless, but yeah. So, lots of patterns in the Bible, and so I haven’t decided yet in this book if

I'm just going to talk about dreams or if I’m gonna talk about dreams and then use that to interpret weird stuff in the Bible. Or am I going to do two separate books? Two separate—you know, just dreams, maybe, and then another book that’s going to be—this is what I don’t like; this other book would be kind of dependent on the other one. I don't like doing that. I really don't like this book being dependent on my first book. Uh, it will help a lot if someone read my first book and read the second one, for

sure it helps. But I'm going to write it as if I assume the person, nobody has read my first book, that’s reading this second book. Um, so, I haven't decided yet—when I start writing it, I'll see, you know. But just by experience, I'll see if this is a good idea or not, to have these two subjects in one book or do I have to split it. I might do both; I might do two, and then also just I’ll maybe publish a version that has both in it in case someone wants—because it's useless to have if

you just want one. You just want one; I mean, I don't have to force people to read what they don't want to read. But so if someone just wants dreams and doesn't want Bible, maybe I could just do the dream part. I haven't decided. Yeah, it'll happen when it happens, you know? Um, yeah, so that's what I’m going to do now in the next, during the winter. Hopefully, the winter is not going to be too hard this year. Last year was really hard. Uh, yeah, but I learned a lot; that's the thing—I learned a lot

from last year's problems. Um, and I learned important things, like really simple things about the concept—by the way, that we talked about—that the concept of the firstborn and the secondborn and all that stuff, that pattern there. I learned a whole lot about that because of the problems I had during the winter. Um, I don’t know. Do you...? "Want me to talk about it? Do you want me to? Yeah, sure, because it's related. It's all related. Anyway, it's related to the sleep part, the sleep stuff too. Uh, okay, so I guess I could say what happened

to me. What happened to me is my stove stopped working, okay, or malfunctioned. Okay, and then I was in big trouble, you know, because obviously, in wintertime, you don't want to not have heat. So, uh, and I could—it's unbelievable the problems I got from this, you know. I tried to fix it myself; I tried all kinds of things, and eventually, I had to buy another one. So, you know, that's a big deal for me because I'm not rich. You know, this is like using all my money, you know, just to survive. So, uh, I bought

another one, and then all these struggles. Basically, I learned something really important, and it kind of revealed to me the meaning of the whole Cain and Abel story. Um, so I can try to explain. It's really simple, but I think— I mean my way of thinking is the real truths, you know? The real powerful deep truths are really simple. But the problem is not that we don't understand things—I’ve said this before—but, uh, it's that we neglect the importance of certain things. We neglect them. It's like we don't think it's meaningful; we think it's just some

aspect of reality that is not important. So, it's not that we don't get it or don't understand it. It's that we don't pay attention to it enough, and we don't put it high enough in our ideas that we use to interpret phenomena. So this is what happened. I realized the importance of something that now I call the spare. You know, you have to have a spare. Okay, people know this already. You know, everyone has a spare tire, for example, you know? It's not a big deal, but they don't think about it. They don't realize the

importance of it. I had to because I was suffering, you know, in winter, suffering because I had neglected this idea of the spare, you know? So then, I started thinking about this, and I understood a lot of things. So, okay, so look, let me ask you. Let's say a question, like a rhetorical question almost, but um, so if let's say I say to you, "I own two hammers." Okay, I have two hammers. So then the question is like, why do you have two hammers? Why not just one? You know, can't I—can't use both at the

same time? That's ridiculous! So, why do I have two? So then there's like basically two answers to this question, or maybe three, but one of them is, for example, they're specialized in different ways. Okay? So this one hammer is for one job; this other hammer is for a different kind of job. Similar, but different. So, for example, let's use a real example. Let's say you have a big metal hammer that is really blunt and it's just for the construction of the general frame of the house, okay? So it's just a normal hammer, and then you

have maybe another kind of hammer that is a little smaller and a little different, and that's just for the finishing touches of the house. Once the house is built, you know, you put in the—I don't know what those are called—but you know what you put on the bottom of floors? You know, between the wall and the floor? What's that called? I don't know what that's called in English. Baseboards? Baseboards! Oh yeah, okay, yeah, makes sense. So, let's say you're putting that in with those little nails, you know? You need maybe a different kind of hammer,

let's say, to nail that in so it doesn't wreck the whole thing. So maybe that's why you have two hammers. Example, right? You have one hammer for one type of job and the other hammer for another. Okay, so that's one explanation. So this is—in my book, when I talk about Cain and Abel, okay?—so that's the kind of explanation I used. Okay, the explanation where it's a specialization of two things. So what I like—why do you have two sons? Why does Adam have two sons? Same question: Why do you have two hammers? Let's say similar. So

the answer that I gave in my first book was a specialization of Adam. So Adam has a job; it's a big job. He needs two different specialized jobs to do it. So the way I explained it is, Cain is specialized in the realm of facts on Earth—like the Earth, concrete facts, you know? Like fighting, war, building, buying stuff. This is like, uh, it's like a king. It's like the—what do you call that?—like the secular domain, basically. What they used to call it, just the concrete practicality of things. So that's Cain, let's say. And then there's

the other aspect, which would be like spiritual things. So it's like Abel is focused on spiritual matters. So he's represented by kind of a priest. He's a priest. And I think that's what it is too. I wasn't wrong; you know? That's why priests have a—um, what do you call that?—crook, right? Because it's related to the shepherd. Um, and then Cain is more like a king because he's dealing with reality, you know?" Facts, killing enemies, and stuff like that. You know, hunting and stuff like that. And the other one is leading his luck with ideas, understanding

things, spiritual knowledge. So, specialization—that's why, for example, you have two hammers. Okay, so let's say in our example we can compare—let's say the first hammer is like Cain, and the second hammer is like Abel. So, start with Cain. Do you know? Use a big hammer to build a structure, and then after that, you do the inside of the house. You're doing a nice job; you need your little hammer, you know, to not break or wreck everything when you build. So, okay, that's one answer now, but then there's another answer, and this is the one I

neglected, but now I've learned through suffering. You know, the other reason you can have two hammers is because if one breaks, you know you have another one. I mean, it's obvious, right? So you need a spare hammer, because if one breaks, you have another one. And this becomes more and more true the more essential your tool is to you. Right? So, if you're making a living with this object, you need a spare because if it breaks, you’re in trouble—because you can’t fix it when you're using it. And that’s the thing; you can’t fix your hammer

while you’re hammering, obviously. Right? I mean, but this is true for everything. You can’t fix your car while you're driving it; you’ve got to have your car at rest while it’s being fixed. That’s also why we sleep, by the way. You need to get paralyzed for your body to heal, to be fixed. It doesn’t fix when you’re doing stuff, just like you can’t fix your car when you’re driving. But maybe there’s a certain amount of fixing that can be done while you're awake. But the deep fixing, the deep renewal, the deep healing needs to be

when your body stops working. Your body is like your vehicle, right? It’s like your car, in a way. When you’re driving it, you can't fix it. So similarly, here you have two hammers because if one breaks, the other is going to be used while you fix the first one, maybe. Or maybe if it’s totally broken, then it gets replaced by the second one. So, this is another way to interpret Cain and Abel—as a spare. So, Abel is a spare. But then you have to ask yourself—there’s a lot of implications to that idea. Though that’s a

lot of implications! This is what I mean by you understand something, but you don’t understand all the implications. So maybe someone can understand the idea of a spare in general, but they don’t think about all the implications. So, let’s say you have two hammers—one that you use and one that you don’t. Okay? But then it’s like, okay, what does the life of this hammer look like—the one that’s not being used? Well, I don’t know; it’s going to hang on the wall somewhere. In fact, I better not use it—better not use it, because if I use

it, I could break it, right? The whole point of this one is to not have it broken, not have it used. I’ll keep it new; I’ll keep it never used. This one I’ll use until it gets broken or whatever, but the other one I’ll keep it in pristine condition. I’ll keep it clean, pure—not used, not broken, anything—because its purpose is to replace the other. So, you see, that's one implication: the spare has got to be kept not at work; it’s at rest while the other one is at work. Okay, but then at one point, there’s

a switch, right? Possibly, if this one breaks, this one now has to come in and replace it while maybe the first one is being fixed during that time. And maybe after that, you can go back. It's okay. So, one of them is almost like an ornament—okay? The one that’s not being used. Its existence is like in the future, right? Its whole reason for being is for the future, while this one is for this world right now. These are important concepts in the Bible: this world and the world to come. The world to come just means

the future. There have been a lot of misinterpretations surrounding that. So, in my example—a hammer—the one that’s not being used is for the world to come, and the one that’s being used is for this world. So, the firstborn is this world, and the second born is the world to come. And then if something happens to this one, this one is there to replace it. And what is this one doing during that time? Well, you see, that’s what you've got to think about. Of course, the analogy of the hammers gets tedious after a while. You could

just understand that we’re talking about two individuals here, right? We’re talking about, let’s say, Cain and Abel. So, there are more implications than with a hammer, obviously, because Abel has to make a living for himself. Even though he’s not being used in this world, he has to still exist, so he has to make some kind of a living. So, he becomes a shepherd. You know, you can understand that in different ways. There’s a lot to understand there, actually, as to why he’s a shepherd. But, so, you’ve got to understand something else too. You can combine

those two interpretations. The one I said before with the specialization and the one I'm saying now with the spare—combine those two. I think when you combine those two, you get the right image of what Cain and Abel is about. Because when you combine them, you can also say this: um, I kind of already did. So, I mean, let's say you're building your house. You start building the exterior, and then you build the interior. So at first, you're using the big hammer, okay? The one that's like Cain, let's say. And then after a while, you're done

with that, and now you're at the interior. Now what do you do? Now there's a switch. Now the one that wasn't being used is going to be used, and the one that was used is not going to be used. Okay, so there's a switch. So there's a time to use this one and a time to use that one. Okay, so it's not necessarily because the hammer's broken—the first hammer, Cain—it's not necessarily because he's broken that you got to replace him. Sometimes you got to replace him because now it's another function. Now you're in the inside

of the house; you're going to use the other kind of hammer. So now it's time to put Cain on the wall and put Abel in the building. You know he's going to be operating now. So I think that's how we have to understand Cain and Abel as a combination of interpretations I gave here. So Abel represents renewal, okay? He's like an agent of Eve. I was saying before, you know, some men are actually working for Eve. So that's kind of what Abel is—he's there for a time of renewal. So it's not necessarily—sometimes people ask, "What

did Cain do wrong?" You know, I don't know why people are so concerned about Cain; by the way, it's funny to me. It's like, why aren't you concerned about Abel? It's like, what does he do? Like, what is he doing? He gets nothing! You know, Cain gets everything. Abel—people are always concerned about Cain, like, "Oh, what did Cain do wrong? What did Abel do wrong?" You know, why does he not do anything? You know, while the other one's the king, let's say. So the thing is, I think the way to understand it is, um, there's

a time of renewal. So it's not necessarily that Cain did something wrong; it's that when you work the land for a certain period of time, um, the land goes into a famine state. Like, the land stops producing. I mean, every farmer knows this, or everyone who's a gardener knows this. If you exploit the land for a certain time and you're not careful about it, the land doesn't produce anymore. Or it produces fruit, but it gets sick, and the fruit has trouble; it rots away and stuff like that. I've experienced it myself, but I mean, anyone

who gardens knows these things; you should know these things. So what did Cain do wrong? Not necessarily anything. It's possible that—I think now, this is how I interpret it—he didn't do anything, actually. He just exploited the land for a certain period of time, and then the land stopped producing for him because that's what happens when you exploit the land. I mean, it's just a fact of life. So then what happens? The land needs to rest, renew itself, just like we do. And then it has to stop being exploited in that way, and that's what Abel's

for. Abel—now it's time for Abel to take over. Like, he just grazes with his sheep; that's a different kind of existence that doesn't require, uh, not like Cain. He doesn't require to plant seeds and get all the minerals out or whatever it is. When you plant seeds, at one point the resources are not there, so there needs to be a period of time when things are redistributed in a way. The toxins that plants produce at one point—there's too much in that place, and the resources needed for the plant are not there anymore. So either you

go somewhere else and plant somewhere else, or you wait. And though that's what the whole concept of the jubilees and the whole concept of the sabbatical years and all that— that's what it's about. There needs to be a year of not producing. Why? For the earth to renew itself. So I think this is what's going on in the story of Cain and Abel. Um, Cain was reaching the end of his production, like it says too in the story. It says at the end of days, this is what happened. Why does it say at the end

of days? Because I think it might want us to understand it's the end of the day now—it's the night, okay? The end of the work period; now it's the rest period. So now it was time for Abel to take over, because his lifestyle allows for the rest to happen, the rest of the land. See, it's about the land's rest, not him, and now Cain was supposed to take a secondary role, see? And I think that what his sin is, if any, um, is refusing that. Okay? Like he refused to, um, lose some of his power

for a time of rest. Okay? He didn't want to lose his power during that time of rest. So I think when it says at one point, or at the end of the day, the days, Cain brought his offering to God, and God rejected it. And I think the reason God rejected it is because it wasn't good anymore; the land wasn't producing. Lots of noise. It's like a rural area. That's okay—kinds of recreational vehicles and stuff. So, um, I forgot what—oh yeah, okay. So I was saying the reason why God refused his offering. Now, what I

understand is I think a better answer is because the land had reached its production limit and was now producing bad fruit, which is what happens in real life. That's what always happens if you exploit a certain land. And then he obviously kept giving the fruit of his land, but now it wasn't good anymore. See, it's not necessarily his fault; it's just the way things are. But then he did sin because God is like, "Calm down, you know? I prefer Abel's thing now," because this is the time where it's supposed to switch from work to rest

for a while until the land renews itself. And you'll be back—don't worry about it, dude, Cain. But Cain just didn't want that. That's how I see it now. He just wanted power to remain in power; he was afraid to lose his status as the firstborn. So he killed the other one. So that's kind of like, you know, again a lot of implications. I'll go back to my analogy of the two hammers. It's like now we're done with the outside construction, and now we have to do the inside. If the hammers had an ego, you know,

the big hammer might be like, "No, I'm the big one, I'm the good one, I'm the strong one. I'm going to build the whole house." You know? And then maybe the big hammer smashes and destroys the little one, you know, the one made for the inside. And then what happens then? The builder is forced to use the big hammer for the inside, and then he breaks a lot of stuff. You know, see, this is what happens when you don't want to do what's right. You know, we don't want to do what's right, and stuff gets

broken. So maybe the house will still get built, you know, but it's going to be broken; there are going to be some problems. So, this is what happens too. But with Cain, he kills Abel, and the blood of Abel is what renews the land, you know, kind of like the blood of Christ. It's the blood of Abel that it represents— that's why it says the blood went in the earth and the earth drank the blood of Abel or something like that. Because they want us to understand that it's the blood of Abel that's going to

heal the land. Okay, but it's going to be a long process. And then it turns into the flood later, but that's when the land is healed. Okay? Because the flood is a period of rest, really; that's what it is. And then we start creation number two, which is after the flood—there's a new world, right? So that's like the new day that starts. But what I was going to say about Cain is that he's like the big hammer used inside the house—he tries to do the job of Abel, but he's doing it wrong. He's like something

that's not meant for that. So this is what Cain does. He ends up trying to do Abel's job in the end. And that's why it says that Cain became, at the end of his lineage, there—they lived in tents, right? It says Jubal and Jabal or something like that. So it's Jubilee, really; they want us to understand it's about the Jubilee. But so these guys live in tents and take care of sheep like Abel, and the other one's a musician—that's what it says; he plays the flute. Okay, so what that means is that Cain's lineage now

must do the part that Abel was supposed to do. But Abel was meant for it; he would have done it correctly and well. Well, Cain is not; he's not the right tool for this job. But he has to do it—no choice, you know? There's nobody else. So, yeah, I broke my small hammer; now I’ve got to use the big one inside and break a lot of stuff, you know, break the house. But I have to do it, so I do it. So that's what Cain was doing—his lineage trying to copy Abel or do Abel's job,

and it led to the end of his lineage completely. Because, yeah, you're not supposed to do that, you know? He had to at that point. So musicians, and it's like Cain living in tents, taking care of sheep and playing music—that's not really his job. He can do it, but it's like a weaker version of it; it's like maybe a subversive, recent version of it. We can see it like that, while Abel would have done the job cleanly and nicely and without problems. Okay, so that's one way to... so I hope my analogy helped a little

bit to understand this. I think I said a lot here, but maybe it's a little too much; I don't know. So we'll see—I’ll see how people react to it. But, it's not that complicated, you see? So, to me, it took a long time to understand this—the concept of the spare and how the spare is related to rest and renewal. So, you've got the... Spare so that the all one can be fixed. While that one is fixed, you use that one. So this is, again, the same thing. Um, the Sun and the Moon represent that in

the way because the Sun, during the day, is the work—represents the work time. Well, then it falls at one point; everything falls. So, at one point, it falls, and then it goes under the Earth. It's dead, broken. What's happening under the Earth? It's being repaired. That's what's happening. So, the Sun, when it goes under, it falls, it falls, it falls; it loses everything. You know, uh, it's an exile. This is an exile—that's what it represents. And then it gets healed. It goes into a holding pattern, basically; that's what the Sun is doing. But while the

Sun is down there, then the Moon is up there. So the Moon is like the other hammer. You know, it's like the Moon is there now to replace the Sun during this rest period, um, and then to give an opportunity for the Sun to be renewed. And then it comes back. So that's what sleep is all about. But the thing is, with sleep, it happens before it's too late. See, like, things get fixed or maintained before they break. See, so sleep is about not really fixing things but more something like maintenance. So, kind of like

a janitor, you know? Kind of like during the school—let's say you're working at school during the school hours. Everyone's working; everything gets dirty. You know, junk on the ground. You know? And then, during the night, the janitor comes in and cleans. So, it's more like that than actual fixing and repairing or healing because it's about—but if the janitor wasn't there, then it would accumulate, right? And then things would really break at one point. You know, pipes would burst and, you know, things like that. It would be a big problem. But because the janitor is there

every night, he fixes the little things. You know, he maintains. Maintenance—right, that's the word for it. Maintenance. So sleeping is maintenance. But it's both. So, if you're sick, uh, you're in bad health, you will sleep. Sleep is related to being sick. So, if you get sick, you get weak, and you will sleep. And the sleep will heal you, um, or the time will heal you. You know, the time of resting. Just rest. You gotta rest when you're sick. But that's not the ideal situation; that's when you got sick, when you got broken. But, obviously, what

you want ideally is to rest even when you're not sick. That way, you don't get sick, right? Sleep—it's a maintenance thing that you do every night so that you don't get sick, so that you don't get heavy intoxication in your body, you know? So, when you sleep, there's a detox going on. Uh, things flow, you know? Because there's concentrations of toxins that you do during work that you have to flow out, you know? Um, kind of like when you sweat. You know some of the toxins get out when you cry; some of the toxins get

out. And then when you sleep, they're not necessarily getting out, but they're being redistributed. Things are flowing around there, uh, and things are being healed. So, maintenance. Yeah. So, but that's really deep though. I don't want to reduce it to a janitor. Well, no. Let’s not. Let’s honor the janitor instead. Instead of saying what I just said, that the janitor is important. You know, without the janitor, nothing works, so it's important. So, that's what it's about. But, obviously, I'm just giving you little pieces here. You know, I'm trying not to be too, uh, jumping from

one thing to the other. It's hard. But, uh, in my book it's going to be really, really clear. You know, kind of like my first book, I think, was clear enough, well written, so it's going to be like that. It's actually might be easier than my first book because I'm going to—since I'm using dreams, like dreams are really tiny little stories, it's a lot easier. I'm going to choose the right dreams at first to explain certain things, and then I'm going to move on to other types of dreams, and then I'm going to reach—I’m going

to go concept by concept, you know? Uh, and by the end of it, I'm hoping that, uh, anyone who reads it will be able to interpret any dream. You know, uh, but obviously there's special kinds of dreams that don't fit this—the pattern I'm looking at yet because there's all kinds of dreams. But there's like other higher-level dreams, where you have these revelations that don't necessarily fit that pattern, although some do. CU, I think some of them do, but some of them clearly don't. But normal dreams—you know, not weird dreams—because there's sometimes people have visions and

stuff, and they think it's dreams, you know? And it's obviously not. To me, it's obvious, but to some people maybe they don't see the difference, but there's a clear difference. So, yeah. Any dream—real dream, you know, normal dream—be able to just know what and see immediately. So, what I'm hoping is, I'm going to, like, put the dreams at the end of the book, and I'm going to suggest for the reader to read those first and just read them, go read through them. It's not such a big deal because I try to put them in one

sentence. You know, it's not too complicated. And then just see if they understand because if you don't see the good— If you don't see that you don't get it at first, it's not as satisfying. Like, you’ve got to see that you don't understand. Obviously, some people maybe already do, but it's like learning a new language. You know, it's like I show you a phrase in Chinese; you know, try to read it. It's like, "No, I don't know. This sounds like gibberish." But then, okay, let's learn the language, and then read it again, and then it's

like, "Whoa, this is obvious. You know, this is—I can read this now." But I'm hoping this is the experience people will get from that book. Oh, they'll read the dreams at first and be like, "Oh, this is weird. You know, this is just random stuff. It looks completely random." And then I'll just go through the concepts that need to be explained, and then at the end, the person will just read all the dreams again, but it's going to be like an explosion of meaning. You know, everything will make sense and will be obvious. I'm hoping

that's the experience I want to give, 'cause it's satisfying when you do that. You know, when it's like learning a new language, it's very satisfying. I don't know if you ever learned another language, but I've been studying Latin, and I'm not very good at it, but I do start to get little insights where stuff makes sense now. Yeah, so you've studied Latin, so yeah, it's satisfying when you read something you have no idea what it means, and then you learn it, and then you read it, and it’s, you know, it's a beautiful thing. And yeah,

you see different things that you usually wouldn't when you learn a new language, because there are concepts that you didn't have before, or there are ways of saying things, you know. So, I'm hoping this is exactly what I want. I want people to learn this language—the language of renewal, what I call it. And then, I'm going to use this language to explain a whole bunch of weird things in the Bible—like almost all the weird stuff that people read and are like, "What? What is this? You know, what is this weird stuff?" Or not necessarily that

it looks weird sometimes, but it looks arbitrary. There's stuff that looks arbitrary; it looks like it's just describing something that happened without deep meaning, you know, without deep meaning. But it's never that in the Bible. It's always if you don't get it, it's because there’s something missing in your mind, or there's something you think is not important, but it is, and you just have to now look at it through that lens. So the lens I'm going to try to give, at least in this book, is basically the—it's like the moon, you know? It's the lens

of the moon instead of the sun. It's like if you had two lenses, but you look at it with the sun lens—that's the work-a-day lens, which is what most people look at the world through. Then there are some things you can't understand—some patterns of reality that you can't, not just in the Bible but in real life too. But then, so I'm trying to give the moon look, the moon lens, or the sleep lens. And then, it's not just about understanding dreams, though—that's what’s important to say here. It's about understanding certain patterns that are in dreams

but also not in dreams. And then those two things together—well, I mean, I could say here that I think one of the reasons why this book is going to be important is because now we’re in the pattern of the dream. Now, the past—let's see how many years—at least five years. So, we know where that lands us. So, we're in the—we have been put in a dream pattern. I don’t know by who, by what. I don't need to know, really. But at least I think people should understand what's going on. We've been put in a sleep

pattern, and we are being led into sleep right now. So, we're being led into—well, I don't want to give away all my information here, but because I want people to actually read my book. You know, I don't want to just give away, because you can't—it’s not true that in a verbal discussion you can give as much information as in it, but it’s just not true. So, I don't want people to think, "Oh, I already listened to his thing." You know, no, no, no, read the book. It's not the same. You know, you're going to get

a lot of information here in a book form; it's not the same. So, I'm going to explain things, and at the end of the book, people should realize—I hope—that we are now being put to sleep by forces unknown, let's say. Let's leave it like that. And we're being put to sleep now. The question is, are we being put to sleep for good? And I mean for good not in the sense of forever, but for good in the sense of for our own good—like when we fall asleep and wake up the next day to renew us,

to refuel us? Or are we just being killed, like Delilah tried to kill Samson? That's the question I'm not necessarily going to try to answer, obviously, now or even in my book. But we have to at least be aware that... We are dealing with Tamar or with Delila; that's what we got to figure out. Tamar, Delila, I don't know which one either right now. Honestly, I see some signs sometimes that lead me. At first, when I didn't understand this language or when I understood a little, there was no doubt in my mind that it was

Delila, okay? That we're being killed, you know; we're being assassinated here. The more I understand the sleeping stuff, the language of sleeping, the patterns involved, the more I see that is what's happening: we are being put to sleep. There's no doubt anymore in my mind. But the more I'm not sure, unfortunately, the more I'm not sure if we're dealing with Delila or Tamar. Is it for our own good to make us sleep, to renew the land, to renew ourselves, to renew our creation, or is it by our enemy that wants to just put us in

the ground for good? You know, I'm not sure anymore. Unfortunately, I thought by learning this language I would know more which one it was, but it did kind of the opposite. I used to be more sure that we were dealing with enemies; now it's like it's kind of in the middle, it's reaching the middle. I'm still leaning more toward enemies, but it didn't do what I thought. I thought it was going to make it more sure that we were being attacked, but it didn't; it brought it a little closer to the middle. I'm not sure,

but anyway, I don't think it's for me to make that determination. But I hope to give enough insight or enough understanding of these patterns to know for maybe somebody else to figure it out, or maybe me later or someone else later. It doesn't have to be me, obviously. But that's one of my reasons why I wrote this book: to answer or to help understand what's going on in the world. Because I'm not able to pretend that nothing's going on, I cannot do that. You know, I cannot keep just going on with my life; you know,

I cannot do it. I cannot do it. I know something's going on. I know there's some influence that we're usually not dealing with, but now it's like something changed. You know, we're being brought into, yeah, like Alice in Wonderland. You know, we're being brought into the Alice in Wonderland. By the way, "Alice in Wonderland" is 100% about sleeping and dreaming. I didn't used to know this because I didn't really care about that story, really; it's just too weird for me, I know. But now, when I started to understand these patterns—the dream stuff—I started seeing, okay,

this guy (L. Carroll, whatever) who wrote "Alice in Wonderland," he was just talking about dreams and sleeping, and he understood a lot of things. And then he just wrote, instead of doing what I want to do, which is to kind of explain it, he just wrote a story. You know, maybe he did the right thing; maybe he's better than what I'm doing. You know, he didn't explain it; he just wrote a story with it. We'll see, we'll see. But maybe now's the time to understand it; maybe back then it wasn't, you know, because maybe people

weren't dealing with it then and it wasn't as urgent as it is now. But everything going on in that book or in those books is about sleeping and dreaming, so he was exploring that. See, the idea of shrinking, growing, all these things are about falling asleep. These obstacles, you know, he’s also the, you know, "I’m late, I'm late," the rabbit that's late. This is all dream patterns. Now I know; I didn't used to know before, but now I know. The idea of looking in the mirror—there are lots of mirrors and dreams because it's related. Going

into the mirror is just a representation of falling asleep because the mirror, when you fall asleep, you go into yourself, right? So if you look in a mirror, and also it's related to the mirror because it's an image; it's an illusion. A mirror is an illusion; it's not real. And if you look in the mirror, it means you're looking at an illusion. That's what dreaming is, and it's not any kind of illusion; it's an illusion about yourself. And that's why the idea of, even in "The Matrix," you know, he goes into the mirror. It means

really falling asleep because that's what falling asleep is. And actually, in dreams, there is that image—I’ve seen it a few times—going into the mirror. And also, yeah, see, if you understand that the mirror also is water. Okay, I've mentioned this before: the real mirror is water. The surface of water is the natural mirror, the prototype of the mirror. So when you go into the mirror, it means I'm going into myself or an illusion of myself, but it also means I'm going into the water. I'm going to be washed by the water; it's a flood, right?

So it's very deep symbolism. I'm going to talk about this water symbolism in my book; it's actually a lot deeper than I first thought. It became much deeper after thinking about dreams and things like that. But in "Alice in Wonderland," I think even in the Disney version, it starts with, "I want to be in a world of my own," something like... That, and then she looks in the water, and then she's singing a song. I don't remember exactly; I saw this a long time ago, but she says, "I want to go into a world of

my own," because she doesn't want to do her work—her schoolwork. So that's what dreams are: going into a world of your own. See, it's your world that you're entering—your world; you're entering yourself. So, for sure, it'd be worth watching that movie again, the Disney movie "Alice," just for the imagery. Um, you see, and she goes and she deals with games. She's dealing with cards and games and things like that. This is very much related to the symbolism of sleeping. So you go into a game, a simulation that is like a miniature, but you're shrunken. You

shrink, and then you go into a world of your own, like it says in the "Alice in Wonderland" song. Um, and see, why I can explain even that—maybe that can be the last thing here—um, why is it shrink? Why do you shrink when you... why is that a representation of sleeping? Shrinking is actually easy to understand because falling asleep is shrinking. When you're awake, you have capacities, and then you lose those capacities—that means you shrink. See, it's also about regressing back to starting over again; it's shrinking, you know, going back. You're starting over; you're losing

your abilities. When you fall asleep, you lose your abilities that you usually have. It's like you're regressing; you go back and you shrink into yourself. Then you go into a world of your own, a world of your own creation, a world of illusion, where you're seeing really what's—you're seeing the renewal process. You're participating inside of yourself to see the renewal process, and there are different perspectives that you can have in there. But yeah, that's something I'm going to go into with my book. But you can be a healer, or you can also be that which

is healed, because what's going on is healing. What I mean is there's different narratives because there are different perspectives, you know? Some dreams are about "I'm the healer" in the dreams; some dreams are about "I'm the patient being healed." But it's the same dream, really. You're just seeing it from different perspectives inside of yourself. You know, so there are lots of different perspectives that you can identify with while you are seeing the process of renewal. But that's why there are many, many, many, many kinds of dreams; there are different ways of representing it, but there

are also different perspectives. And in really good dreams, you'll be both—you'll be the healer and the patient. You know, well, I mean, that's not hard to understand. I mean, you could be—okay, I'll give you a really, really typical example of a dream. I've received that one more than once. So the dream is just this: I look in a mirror; I'm in the bathroom, I look in the mirror, and then I have a pimple, and then I pop my pimple. That's the dream. It sounds really boring, but the whole dream pattern is in that tiny little

dream because you're the healer; you're the patient, because you're in a dream. It's always you; every part of the dream is you. But in some dreams, there's like a perfect symbolism where you're both. In some dreams, you only see one side of it; in some dreams, you only see the other. This is like Joseph too. Joseph has different dreams that mean the same thing—he has one dream and then another dream, but the two dreams are the same, and then he's supposed to figure out they are two perspectives of the same pattern. So, same thing in

dreams, but in the best dreams, like the juiciest dreams, you're both. You know, it's like, for example, I give you a typical dream—another typical dream. I'm being chased by a guy with a knife in my dream; I'm running away. It's like a nightmare, let's say. And then, oh, I'm running away; I'm running away; I'm trying to close the doors, but I never close the door on time. The guy's running after me, and then I'm in this labyrinth— you know, a very important symbol of dreams—a labyrinth is very important. And then at one point, he reaches

me, and he wants to stab me, and then I realize I'm not afraid. And then I take the knife and stab myself; nothing happens. So that's actually a dream that many people have, apparently. It's a pretty good dream, okay? So it's like there's the falling down part—you're losing control, you're losing your space, you're falling down, you're shrinking. So there are many ways to represent the shrinking thing. One of the ways is to literally be shrinking; another way is to regress into smaller and smaller spaces. So like, if you're in a house, I'm being chased by

a crazy person in my house, and then I go in my room and then I go hide under my bed—so you're shrinking. That's another way to represent the shrinking. And then in good dreams, you realize, or there's some symbolism of the idea that you are both sides of the thing. You are the attacker, and you are the one being attacked. And then in really, really good dreams, then you see all of it together. You see the enemy that takes you down, and then you see—you're... Also, the one you, you—the enemy—and you're the one that's being

taken down. And then you're the healer, and then you're the one being healed, and then it's like you see all of it at the same time. There are a few dreams like that, um, where there's like an awareness of the whole thing, you know? Because some dreams only have partial awareness, and some dreams have full awareness, and the dreams that have full awareness are the ones that are really, really interesting. What's funny is people who have these dreams usually don't understand them. It's not like they dream that because they know the deep meaning of the

dream; no, it’s usually not that. It's just that this particular dream had a lot of info in it, you know? It was really well designed by whoever designs dreams—I don't know. I don't really know if it's our brain or not, but, uh, so yeah. So, I'm getting this is what in my book that I'm going to do: I'm going to use certain dreams to explain certain things, and then I'm going to work my way—you know, I'm going to try to use, at the end, some dreams that have a really, really perfect representation of the whole

thing. So, this should be interesting. Sounds very cool! I'm sure people would be thrilled to read it. Yeah, well, I can't—I can't wait. Now I'm getting a little bit, uh, what's the word? Antsy? But something like that. I'm getting like... and now winter's coming, so it's going to be hard again, so I hope it goes well. You know, uh, I'm going to probably use that the whole winter to write it. Hopefully, I don't get some weird thing again. I've understood everything I needed to, enough—no more, uh, no more exile for me. Tired of it, okay?

I don't know who I'm talking to here, but whoever's in charge of that exile stuff—enough! Okay, well, um, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today. Yeah, no problem! Yeah, this was like a last-minute thing, right? I just call just because I don't—honestly, like I said, I don't like doing interviews. So, no offense to other people who asked me to do interviews and I didn't do it. This is just like a random, random thing. He just emailed me, and it just happened to be at the right moment where I felt

like I needed to do it. So, I did it. So, it's no offense. It's not because other people have asked me to do interviews, and I always say I don't want to do interviews, because it's true, you know? But it's like this—for some reason, you just emailed me at the right moment. You sent me an email, so it just happened like that. So, well, I'm thankful for whoever is in charge of lucky emails—of lucky emails! Yeah, okay, cool. Good talking to you! Yeah, it was fun. Bye-bye! All right, bye! So, um, Matthew just wanted to

address and clarify one thing that was brought up in the interview, so I'm just going to ask him a question. Um, why don't you talk about Christianity in general? Okay, so the reason I don't talk about Christianity is, um, is actually pretty simple, but not everyone's going to agree with me, you know, on that issue. But, uh, people don't have to agree with me—that's the thing, you know? I don't have any—I don't have any position of any authority, so I'm nobody. So, you can disagree with me and then just ignore me. That's the reality of

it, so it shouldn't be a big deal that I don't—I voluntarily don't talk about Christianity. Well, I think I do need to explain why, because it can be interpreted in ways that are not, you know, that are not what it is. So, it's not out of disrespect, you know? It's not because I don't think Christianity is true; it's actually the opposite. Okay, so why? Because I think Jesus is the incarnation or the embodiment of the highest truth, okay, that we can grasp, okay? Um, it's like, as it says, you know, it's the keystone. So, it's

the pinnacle stone—or even the keystone might even be a better symbol for it. So, the problem is, um, so let's use another analogy than the keystone, although it's correct. But, um, just so I can explain something without it becoming too strange, but, um, it’s like we have a lock and a key. So, a puzzle, you know, or an enigma—a riddle. And then, the solution to the riddle, or the, yeah, the final, uh, the way to unlock the riddle, okay, to get past an obstacle—also, it's another way to see it because the lock is an obstacle.

So, I think that Christ is the key to the lock of the universe, okay? I don't know how to say it—I think that's the best way. So there's a riddle, but the lock itself was also embodied, um, just like the key is an embodiment of this principle. The lock is also an embodiment; it was embodied in the past, this lock, so as to represent or symbolize the entire mystery of the universe. You know, it's not the actual mystery; it's an embodiment of that mystery—a symbol that represents the whole mystery. So, this lock, I think, uh,

after a while we neglected the lock. So, it's like once you have the key, maybe you think the lock's not so important anymore because, yeah, we have the key now. Why do we need... To bother about the lock, right? It's true in a sense, but after a while, I think what happened is, um, because this key is like a, you know, like a key, you know, like a key that opens any lock. In the end, because the lock represents all locks, the lock, um, so we use the key to unlock many locks. Then at one

point, we kind of focused more on other locks, okay? Um, in the history of Christianity, like, for example, we became interested in science; we became interested in all kinds of other questions. And, um, what happened is maybe we were able to unlock some of these questions with the key that we had, but at one point, what happened is we neglected the original lock. Okay, so the lock that embodied the mystery of the universe, you know, it was a representation of the mystery of the universe, and we kind of neglected that lock. I think at one

point we lost it. We lost the lock, not the key. We have the key. So then it's like, why don’t you talk about the key that we have? Because the key that we have is infinitely more full of light, or full of meaning, or full of authority. It solves every problem. So this key, without the lock, gets taken for granted. That's what I'm saying. So even though you have the key, if you don't have the lock, you don't realize what this key is capable of unlocking or answering as, as a riddle. You know, you lost

the riddle. It's like if we have an ancient riddle that we've been trying to solve for thousands of years, and then at one point comes a stage where we find the answer to the riddle. Okay, so that's good. Now we're all happy about that. But then later, we kind of neglect the riddle and we have the answer, and then later, much later, we just have the answer and not the riddle anymore. So the answer is not worth much without the riddle. I mean, it sounds perhaps a little weird what I'm saying, but I think this

is what happened. So, uh, it's kind of like in that book, you know, uh, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. There's something similar in there. You know, we're looking for the answer to the ultimate question of the universe and everything, and then it's like we calculate that for millions of years, and the answer is just 42. Okay, 42, that's the answer to everything. Okay? So, I mean, the people who wrote that book were, you know, doing it kind of ironically, but it's interesting. The idea is interesting. You know, we have the solution but not the

question. So what is that worth, 42? What is that solution worth? Not much, you know? So now we've got to find what was the question again, you know? What was the question if the answer is 42? So I think we kind of put ourselves in this kind of situation where we have the answer; we have the key, but we lost the lock. We neglected the lock. We let it rust. Maybe we even, at one point, kind of just threw it away. By the way, just like, or the inversion of the concept of, um, the stone

rejected by the builders became the cornerstone. This is kind of the opposite of that, but it's related because the stone rejected by the builder is the riddle, okay? So there's a riddle. Keep rejecting it because you don't know how to answer it. So what do you do? You hide it; you put it under the rug, or you throw it away. You know, you reject it. You don't know what to do with this thing, this stone. So the stone rejected by the builder becomes the pinnacle stone or the keystone. Now when it's the keystone, it represents

the solution. Okay? So in the symbolism of the stumbling stone, there are both symbols. There's the symbol of the riddle or the lock, and there's also the symbol of the key or the answer to the riddle. Okay? So I think what happened at one point is we forgot the importance of the lock, and we kind of stopped trying to understand it because we think we have the answer. And we do. That's the thing. That's why I'm not hostile. That's why what I'm doing is not hostile, because I think, or I'm sure, actually I have no

doubt that the key that we have, which is Jesus Christ, is the solution to an ancient riddle. So this is in this sense when I say, “Why don’t you talk about Christianity?” It's like there's nothing hostile about what I'm doing. There's nothing adversarial. In fact, it's the opposite. I could, you know, join everyone who's questioning Christianity in an adversarial way, which is a lot of people. You know, people asking questions of Christianity: “What about this issue? What about that issue? Uh, you know, there are contradictions in the Bible,” etc. You know, these are questions that

are hostile because the people who ask them don't really want the answer. They just want to find a way to attack something with questions, which is what you can do, of course. So, again, an example of a stumbling stone that's adversarial. This is an example. You ask a question in order to destroy the integrity of something, but you don't really want to know the answer. This is why, to me, debates are kind of useless, because usually a debate is somebody throwing stones at... You’re stumbling stones at you, but not willing to listen to the answer

or not willing to do the effort that it takes to understand the answer. You know, so that’s what I want to avoid. What I’m doing is looking for the lock—the original lock, not the lock that was cared about later, the original lock—the original riddle. Okay, um, and because it’s lost, I think truly lost, and this riddle—that’s why a lot of what I say sounds a lot like, uh, Judaism. It does; it does sound a lot like Juda. I’ve been told that, and it’s true, but it’s not because I’m trying to subvert Chandy or anything like

that. It’s the opposite. I’m looking for the lock, and the lock was written in the language of Judaism. It was written in that language. The Bible is the lock. Okay, the Bible is the riddle that was supposed to be solved by the Messiah, and, uh, like I said, I think Jesus did solve the riddle. Okay, but, well, like I said, I’m just repeating myself there, but the lock has been lost, so we don’t know the value of this key anymore that we have. We don’t. It’s like I said before; it’s like saying the answer to

the universe is 42, and then if you start asking questions, well, the answer is always 42. No need to ask questions anymore. Well, yeah, that’s not satisfying. Okay? And it’s certainly not satisfying to people who don’t believe that this key is the solution. It’s not satisfying at all. So if you take this key that you have for granted and you lose the lock, then it’s very hard to convince others that you do have the key. Because without the lock, how can you prove that you have the key? How can you prove that this is the

key that unlocks that lock? And that key might even unlock other locks, but those locks are never going to be as impressive as the original lock. The original lock is very complicated, very complex; it has a bunch of pins in it. It’s not just a two-pin lock, you know; it’s a million-pin lock. So this key unlocks the whole big lock. Okay, so the reason I don’t talk about Christianity is not out of disrespect but the opposite—out of respect—because I’m someone who’s looking for that lock. So as long as I’m not able to formulate what this

lock looks like or can’t show it clearly, you know, it’s useless for me to talk about the key. That’s me. I’m not—I don’t suggest anyone follow in my footsteps. You know, I’m not trying to be a leader or anything like that. I’m doing something that I think needs to be done because soon I think we’re going to be faced with people that are maybe our enemy, and they do have that Lu, and they’re going to show it in an adversarial way to us, and we won’t be able to answer because we don’t know how to

use the key anymore because we’ve been not using it with that lock. But what I’m trying to do, I think, is a good thing. I think I’m preparing the way for this lock. It’s kind of like what Joseph was doing. There’s going to be a famine; you don’t know that yet. So Joseph goes into exile, and he finds the solution to these dreams that he had. The dreams were a lock; the dreams were the lock. Okay? And the interpretation of the dream is the key. So he had to go and get certain locks in Egypt,

okay, some riddles, and then the riddle was the riddle of the Pharaoh that saw the famine in his dream. Okay? The famine is coming; we need to prepare. So Joseph shows in advance this problem before it happens, like before the famine presents itself, and then it’s too late. We don’t know how to solve it. So Joseph kind of goes, finds the riddle, which is the Pharaoh’s dream, and then, with God’s help—God’s help always—he solves this riddle using God’s key. The key always comes from God. But then why is what’s the point of all this? Well,

the point is to see it in advance. Now we know in advance that this famine is coming. A famine is a big riddle; you know, it’s hard to survive that riddle. It’s hard to survive that problem, that obstacle. So if you see it in advance, then what do you do? You, uh, prepare in advance. You train for it in advance before the riddle is posed to you and you have to deal with it now. So better to see the riddle before it’s time to deal with it. And, um, this is related to the symbolism of

sleeping. Okay? So sleeping is a training. When you sleep, you’re training for a riddle, okay, that you couldn’t solve if you had it in real life, but you’re doing it in a tiny little dream setting, say, in the safety of your own body. You know, it’s like a miniature version of it; you’re seeing it before it happens. Okay? So then what’s the advantage of that? Well, Joseph can say, while we’re in a time of plenty—which is clearly almost over for us now—I mean, if we just look at what’s happening in the world, we have to

make a spare of everything. Okay? So that’s what Joseph does in Egypt. He says, “So during the seven years of plenty, you gather enough food, or enough…” Grain to last for the seven years that are coming. Okay, so this grain, this doublet that he's doing for seven years, he's doubling everything, keeping one for the future and one for now; and then this doubling is the solution to when it actually happens. Right? So this is an important symbol. It happens in the desert when they're only eating manna. Okay? God says don't accumulate during the week, but

at the end of the week, you gather a double portion of manna, and this one won't rot because it's reserved for the future. So this double portion, again, is to allow for the Sabbath to happen, and you have a solution to that problem of resting because when you rest, you don't produce, you don't have food. So it's similar to that. What I'm trying to do is go and get the riddle that we lost, that we neglected, show it before it's too late, show it before it's time to answer these riddles. So why am I not

talking about Christianity? Like I said, because if I talk about it now before I even understand the riddle myself, it's just going to look like everyone else is attacking Christianity. You know, it's just going to look like I'm questioning everything, questioning Christianity. But I'm not really. I am questioning; I'm finding the question. I'm trying to find the original question that Christ answers. That's what I'm doing. So that's the answer to why I don't talk about Christianity. It's the opposite of thinking that Christianity is wrong. It's thinking that we took it for granted, basically; and because

of it, we didn't practice. You know, we didn't practice unlocking the original lock, and then we lost it. So the lock that I'm looking for is very complex, and part of it is not our fault why we lost the lock, because when Christ was rejected in his time, he was rejected by his people. So what happened is he became the key to another problem, which is the nations, the problems of the nations. So Jesus became the solution to the problems of the nations. And for us who are not Jewish, let's say it doesn't matter if

this key unlocks problems that are not ours. Okay, so there's a bunch of laws in the Bible that are only for Israelites, not for everyone else. So if we're not Jewish or if we're not Israelites, we don't need to worry about these riddles; they're not for us. It's not my problem what it means. Let's say I can find any law in the Bible; they're very obscure. You know, these laws are obscure, and to us, at least, they look random. They look weird because they're locks. But we don't need to care about those laws. See, that's

the thing, because those laws weren't meant for the nations; they were meant for Israelites. So we just ignore those laws—who cares what they mean? You know, it's fine. We did nothing wrong on our part as non-Israelites; we did nothing wrong. These laws are not our problem. Some of them are, but most of them aren't. So, “Eden Kosher,” for example, you know, that Jews were given this law, “You can eat this, not that.” Okay? Jesus said none of the laws are going to be lost; not one iota of the law will be abandoned. Okay? He was

talking to them when he said that—that's the answer to that problem. The moment that Christ was rejected is the moment he became the key to other problems. Okay? Ours, not theirs. So you don't want this solution; you don't want this key. Okay? Sorry, I mean, you decide. I can't force you to use this key. So now this key becomes the key to other problems. Okay? So the problems of all the nations—so we don't need to understand those laws. We don't, okay? And some of the things that we do as Christians seem like paradoxes if you

read the Bible, but only if you interpret it forgetting what I just said here: that those laws weren't meant for us; it's not our problem. So you don't need to be kosher; you don't need to be circumcised. You know, all these things that Paul said, and some of it Peter too. We can do that. We can follow Paul. You see, it's a paradox—it's a big paradox. You know, it's not that easy to circumvent; it's not that easy. It's possible, I think, but for us, we can follow Paul. But can Jews follow Paul? You know, the

Jews that received the law that said you must eat kosher and that also said if anyone tells you not to eat kosher, reject them? No, the answer is no. Okay? Not a lot of people talk about this subject, but I will. Apparently, I have to. So, but they can follow Jesus, though. See, that's the thing—they can follow Jesus because Jesus was the key to that puzzle. Okay? Paul came along to help us use that key for our puzzles. When I say us, I mean the nations. And he did a good job too; Paul is very

brilliant, you know. But for him, it was probably a struggle. I know, I don't know—I can't talk to him, unfortunately. But, I mean, it was a struggle for him because he saw himself as Jewish. So all of a sudden, you've got to abandon these laws, but it says clearly in the law that you're not supposed to do that: you're not supposed to abandon these laws. But he did. So it... was so, to me, I think it was a struggle for Peter. You know, Peter receives the vision of the cloth that descends, and God says, "Eat

from this food," and it's all kind of unclean food in there, so it's pigs. And you know, "Eat the pig." You know, it's like, "But God, two seconds ago you just told me never to eat pig, and you said anyone who contradicts this has to be rejected." But now you're telling me to eat the pig? How's that possible? And the answer is, as I said, the answer is now, as the moment Jesus was rejected, is the moment it became for non-Jews. And these contradictions aren't contradictions; they're only contradictions if you ignore what I just said.

So part of what I'm trying to do is to see Jesus as the key to the original lock, which is the Bible—all of it, all the laws. Paul was so conflicted with this idea that he had to abandon his identity as a Benjaminite. That's why it happened to him too, because Benjamin is a special tribe. It was such a conflict for him that he basically went blind and a little crazy; you know, he went blind because what he saw was so high, it was higher than what he could handle. He saw a light so bright

that he fell off his horse. That's usually not a good thing. If you fall off your horse like that, blinded, it doesn't mean you understood something; it means you didn't. It means you saw something too big for you and you fell. It's a falling story. He fell, okay? But it's seen positively for us because we benefit from his fall. You see, these are big—I'm talking about big riddles here, okay? I think I have to do it. So, Paul, it was such an intense paradox for him that he basically saw himself as a clown: like, "I'm

a fool, I'm a fool for Christ." You know, if I praise myself, it'll be because of my sin. He says things like, you know, a clown is someone who—or a jester is someone who is not trying to make laws fit with facts. Okay, you want the definition of a clown? A clown is someone who accepts the idea that things don't fit, and he makes that into a positive narrative. Okay? Because a clown, like a clown with his big shoes, you know, why are you wearing big shoes that are too big for you? Yeah, that's the

whole point of a clown: he saw something that was too big for something too small, or it can be the other way around. It doesn't matter. But then, instead of being negatively stressed about it, he saw it as a positive thing, okay? He solved the riddle as a clown, and he says so himself. So it's not me insulting him; it's part of the symbolism of Benjamin, by the way. I mean, this is important stuff here. I don't know why nobody's talking about these things, but Benjamin receives one name from his mother and one name from

his father, so he's got two identities. His mother calls him Ben-Oni, which is like "son of my pain." When she has him, she dies, so it's a big deal. It's almost a curse that she's giving her son: "You’re a son of pain and suffering." And then his father says, "No, I'm going to call you Benjamin," which means "son of my right hand." So, Benjamin has two names, two conflicting names, two opposite names. Okay? This is part of the nature of Benjamin. This is why Paul was a Benjaminite. I mean, God chooses people who fit the

bill, you know, when He has certain missions to do, and this is Paul, you know? He was an enemy of Christ at first, so this is Ben-Oni, "son of my pain," for us. And then he flipped—he fell off the horse. This is a story of a fall. It's like he ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad. That’s what it means. He saw something too big for him to handle, as he was at that time, and it made him fall and become blind. So that’s his second name he received: "son of my right

hand." So it's like he has two conflicting identities. And how does he deal with it? Well, we know from his letters, he calls himself a fool. You know, a fool is someone who contradicts himself and sees it as good. It’s a good because he understood a deep mystery. We don’t necessarily need to understand what he understood at this point. Anyway, our whole history is based on Paul. You know, Paul wrote almost more stuff in the New Testament than anyone else, so we can't ignore him, and we shouldn't ignore him. We don't need to ignore him.

So now the question is, how can Jews be Christian? See, that’s another issue because they did receive those laws. So do they all become fools like Paul? I don’t think so. Maybe Paul had a specific role to play; clearly he did. He became the Apostle of the Nations, so he tailored his vision, you know, to the Nations. So it's a big problem we're faced with—a big problem. Not—we see, that’s the thing. Well, this is what happened to me at one point. I asked myself, "Um, about Jews, you know, why aren't they Christian?" That's what I

questioned I asked myself a long time ago, and, uh, unfortunately for me, I'm meticulous. You know, I don't accept answers that cover something just to cover it. You know, I need the real answer. So, you know, I learned Hebrew, did all these things, learned all these things; I'm still learning, you know. Uh, I decided to talk to Stu at one point. You know, what do they have to say about it? You know, I discovered a lot of things, um, about the problem. You know, some of them are dealing with this problem slowly, in slow motion.

So, that's what I'm doing. Uh, I think what I'm doing is also a benefit to Christians for the reason I said before, because we need to see the riddle before it's presented to us in an, um, adversarial manner. So, that's the reason I don't talk about Christianity. It's not out of disrespect; it's the opposite. So if I ever find a way to explain the lock clearly, I'm doing it slowly. You know, it's not all in one shot. Then, then I'll use the key to unlock it. You know, I am confident that the key unlocks it.

I already know; I already know the key unlocks it. That doesn't mean I can explain it, you know. But sometimes you can understand something for yourself; that doesn't mean you can explain it to everyone else. That's obvious. I mean, in any other domain, we understand this. In any other field of study, we understand this. You know, if you study like I did mathematics, you know, I can understand something, but I'm not going to be able to explain it to someone who hasn't studied mathematics. How am I going to do that? I could pretend I could

do the thing. I know I can go through the motion of explaining it to someone who's never had any experience in higher mathematics. I know already he's not going to understand. It's useless. So it's an insult, actually, to do that to the person. It's an insult to the person hearing it. It's like, why am I talking to you about something you've never studied before? It's insulting. Okay, um, so you don't do that. So what do you do instead? You try to explain it gradually and slowly, and until you're able to explain it to anyone who

wants to hear it. Then, once you've done that, you hope they read what you wrote or whatever. You know, they looked at the lessons that you presented to explain these things, and then after that, you give the solution. You know, there you go. So, to give the solution to a question that we don't know what it is is dumb for me, but it's not the problem of all Christians. I don't expect every Christian to be like me. I hope not, actually. Don't follow me, you know. It's just I put myself in this situation a long

time ago, and now I can't get out of it. I'm stuck. Okay, it's okay. I mean, I'm not suffering all that much. I'm suffering sometimes, but, um, I don't think anyone should follow me, you know, into the pit. But I'm not trying to be a leader or anything like that. I'm doing something very specific. But now I'm explaining what it is so people know I'm trying to find the lock. This lock, by the way, is the Grail. Hey, this is the Grail! It's the question—the original question that killed Jesus, and the blood flowed into that

question. But what we want now is not for that question to kill Jesus again. You know, why do that? When I say "kill Jesus" in this context, I mean attack Christianity. So, it already happened once in the past that Jesus was attacked; the Messiah was attacked by these questions. There's no reason to do that again. I mean, we kind of lost the Grail at one point, but we don't need to use that occasion to attack Christianity against a lot of people who are doing it. I'm not one to add myself to everyone who's attacking Christianity

right now, like which is, like, everyone, you know? So I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. I hope it makes sense what I'm saying; it doesn't sound completely insane. It's not, uh, so I'm going to keep working on what I'm working. There are things that I have to explain, so now I'm trying to explain the Grail, which is sleep, which is rest, renewal—the stone that was rejected by the builders. Um, the stone that Moses hit with his staff. You know, God asks the stone for water; Moses is impatient, he hits the stone with his

staff, and he still gets water, you know, but it's not in a good way. Because of this, he was refused to go into the promised land. So you got to be careful with that stuff, you know? You don't hit the stone that gives—that renews you. You don't hit it, especially when God says what to do, which is ask the stone for water. If you don't need water, you don't have to ask the stone for water. If you do, you ask, but you don't hit it. So this is what happened to Jesus. You know, he was

hit with the staff of Moses, and he still renewed—still did the job that the stone does, but not in a good way, in a negative way. It's the same thing with Cain and Abel. No, Abel was supposed to renew things for Cain, but Cain decided instead to hit him with his lance, you know. Uh, his weapon, um, and he bled out, and his blood renewed the land. Still, see that's the thing: it happened. Still, Jesus renewed, but in a negative way that leads to some tribulations and some exile for the people who did hit him.

So, I hope that explains why I don't talk about Christianity. It's out of respect, you know? It's out of respect because I already know the key is the key. I already know—I don't need to prove—I do; we do need to prove that this is the key to the lock, but without the lock, you can't do that. So, what happens when you don't have the original lock? It sometimes becomes superficial, you know? Because it's like, "Yeah, Jesus has answered everything. Oh, let's read the story in the Old Testament." And then it's like, let's say, read the

story of Samson. Okay, well, this is just a prototype of Christ—or it's, I don’t remember the word that's usually used. It's not prototype; it's something else. A pre—do you know the word? It's a word people use to say that it's something that happened before Christ, but it was like a—I don't know the word. Can you help me? I'm blanking on it too. Are you thinking like "type" in typology? Typology. You know, it's pre-type or something like that. I don't—sometimes my English is not so great, but it's, you know what I mean, yeah? So, but sometimes

it's too superficial, you know? You can't always just do that. It's not false, though, but "Oh, this is the type of Christ. Samson is a type of Christ." Okay, please explain to me, okay? Because he died? Or because—? I agree that it is. That's what I'm saying. I'm not attacking. See, now I'm talking about Christianity; it already sounds like I'm attacking it. I'm not. But the answer is a lot deeper than people think. That's what I'm saying, okay? Christ is the key to all the problems in the Bible, to all the laws, and to everything.

But the answer is a lot more powerful and deeper than people think when they explain certain things a little bit superficially. So, the reason I don't speak about it is because, like I said, I don't want to sound like I'm attacking Christianity because that's not what I'm doing, and I'm not even attacking Christians. Because, like I said, a lot of the—um, the—um, the riddle, the original riddle, okay, it's not our problem because we're not Jewish. We don't need to know these things. We don't need to make sense of the laws because they're not for us.

So, a lot of it doesn't—we don't need to. But I think we're reaching a point in history now where we are going to have to answer these questions. So, like I said, before that happens, I'm trying to show it—a dream, you know? A dream that's a premonition, you know? A dream that's showing you the problem before it happens so you know what to do when it happens, like Joseph. So, that's what I'm doing. I hope that makes it sound—I probably sound—everything I just said probably sounds crazy, but—no, it makes a lot of sense. It does.

Okay, yeah, you make me feel better. Okay? Because, you know, there are lots of things I don't talk about, you know, because I know it's not going to be helpful. You know, you don't talk about things that aren't helpful. I think now I have to talk about this stuff, so I am. But if you say it makes sense, I'm glad. Yeah, it makes sense. It's quite beautiful, actually. Okay, thank you. So, that was the answer to that. I hope—I'm not gonna—I hope I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. And I go too fast, I

go too slow, you know? Whatever I'm looking for, I know already. That's the thing, because there are different levels of understanding, you know? You can have a glimpse of things that doesn't—you can explain it. Like I said before, you know, I had a long, long time ago, I had some insights when I was 20. You know, I had mega insights about, let's say, like a vision. I don't like that word, but that's what it was, basically. You know, it took me 20 years to understand some of it. Most of it took me this long. So,

I could have just back then gone crazy, you know, talking about my vision, like a lot of people do, by the way. And then it's just confusion and craziness, you know? But that doesn't mean that the person who got the vision doesn't get it. He probably does. But when he tries to express it, sometimes it's not time yet to talk about certain things. It's not time. Just like, why didn't Christ appear right after the Fall? That would have solved a lot of problems, right? I mean, there's the Fall; why didn't God just send Jesus right

away? Oh, problem solved! We see, because things happen in their time. Because the problem of the Fall had to express itself fully before the solution to it made any sense. And in the Bible, you know, in Genesis, the culmination of this problem is actually the Fallen Angels, the Giants, the Nephilim. That's like the culmination of the problem of the Fall. At the end there, it's like these guys, these Giants, which are unions of angels and humans—hybrids—it created all kinds of problems in the world. Problems had to be solved, and they were solved by Jesus. Okay,

later when it was time, not before. So that's the thing: I'm doing something like that, you know? You don't say things before it's time; it's just common sense, really. You know I'm not that weird. I think I'm doing normal things. I think other people are not doing the right thing, actually. You know, sometimes some people who are occultists are an example of that. They talk about things that they know when it's not time. Why? I don't know. Whatever reason; it doesn't matter what the reason is, really. I shouldn't even need to think about that, but

some occultists have more knowledge than some Christians. Okay, but that doesn't mean it's better. It's like buying something on credit. You know, you borrow money. I borrow money to buy this big mansion. Let's say, okay, a million-dollar mansion. I borrow all the money and I buy this million-dollar mansion. Am I better than the guy who owns a little house, you know, a $100,000 house in a rural area? Am I better than him because I have a gigantic mansion? No, because I borrowed for it. It's worthless; it's worse than nothing. It'd be better if you had

nothing than this house that was borrowed for a million dollars, you know? It's not really yours. So occultism is like that. You know, it's like you have a power that is not yours, that was lent to you by an entity that you don't really know. This is what happens when you borrow money too. This money or this power is able to be used by you, but you don't know all the implications. Because, like I said in a previous discussion, the one who lent you the money owns your soul. Right now, he owns your identity, your

soul. So you might think you're using this power that looks like it's more... you know, the guy who bought a $100,000 house with his own money owns more than me, who borrowed all this money to buy the mansion. So this is how you understand some of the occultism. You know, occultism is like the guy who borrowed $10 million and bought a mansion, and it looks like he sometimes has more than the other one, but he has much, much less. In fact, he has millions of dollars of debt, which is worse than nothing. It's worse than

having nothing, actually. A beggar is better off than this guy, you know? So it's just an example of things happen in their time. Perhaps the guy can get the mansion, but in its time. He's trying to get it before it's time; he has to borrow money from an unknown entity that might be adversarial to him, and at the moment there's a problem, he gets crushed by this entity, you know, this lender of power. This lender. So I think that's an important lesson to learn here: so everything in its time. God is someone who works slowly.

You know, all the Bible is about that, really. It's kind of annoying, actually, when you read the Bible. It's mostly about, "It's not time yet. It's not time yet. It's not time yet." You want to do something, God is like, "No, not now, later." The Tower of Babel is an example of that. You know, trying to build this empire—it's not time yet. That's why it's wrong; it's not wrong to build the tower. It's wrong because it's not time yet, so it gets swept away. And then Abraham's life is all about that, you know? God promises

something, and it's like, "Am I going to get what you promise?" No, not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. And eventually, God, you know, He makes him fall asleep to reveal this, and it's like, "Yeah, you're going to get it, but 400 years from now." Crushing! That's a crushing blow, you know, to your plans. I told you this; I promised you this, but it's going to be in 400 years, and even then, a lot of struggle in between. So, you know, God functions like that. We just have to accept it. That's my way of

thinking now, you know? So I hope this helps some people somewhere, someone somewhere, to understand something more. I'm sure it will. Okay? So yeah, thanks for letting me explain myself on this. No, thank you, because you asked me about Mary in our previous talk, and I said I wasn't going to talk, and I felt like maybe it sounds like I'm attacking Christianity or something, you know? Because then I say I don't want to talk about Mary, but then I talk about things that sound like Judaism, you know? And it does, it is. So it's like,

"Are you a Jew? Is that what you are?" You know? No, it's not. It's not. So I think I had to explain myself. I hope it makes sense. Yeah, it does! It's very profound, actually. So thanks. I really appreciate you wanting to talk more about that. Yeah, well, there's going to be more, you know, when it's time for me. When I'm going to talk about these questions, I'm sure it'll annoy some people, you know? But that's everything anyone does; it always annoys people. So there's not much you can do about that. So I'm just going

to do what I think I have to do. Maybe in a couple of years, it'll be a little more obvious what I'm trying to do, but for now, I'm doing this book—a book about dreams. That's what I'm doing, so hopefully by the end of the winter, I should have that finished. That, I hope. Very cool! Is there anything else you wanted to mention? Uh, no, I think I'm done now for a while, probably. Awesome! Well, it was great talking to you again. Yeah, same here. Okay, thank you! Thanks, bye-bye! Bye!