How I Turned $5,000 Into $2.6 Billion

what was the top Revenue year you had while you were running the company 3 billion how do you spend all that money how about this goddamn airplane to be a big shot the next day the entire publishing industry in the United States of America sued me what was your expectation from the beginning I was in there for the money business people they say they love their business bull you can't let that business own you you own it with that being the case was it all worth [Music] it today we are at the house of billionaire

founder Paul orala who sold his company Kinkos for over a billion in this video we dig deeper into his story what it's like living the billionaire lifestyle and how did he take Kinkos from zero to billions in sales hi my name is Paul Ora I'm the founder of Kinkos that sold a company for not enough money not enough money yeah you never sold it for enough uh in 1997 I sold it to a firm in New York actually a bunch of dumb in New York uh they ended up selling for 2.6 million billion $2.6 billion

yeah to FedEx and then did you own a part of that when they sold no I I kind of got out of it by then they I they I think if you sell your business piece of advice is leave right away because it's like cutting the tail of a dog an inch at a time you're just there being tortured by having no Authority but a lot of uh aggravation and they people when you sell your business they're more concerned with loyalty than performance and they fired really good people the new new ones from New York

how much did you sell it for to the lbo oh we sold it for maybe a billion and a half how is it to become a billionaire I don't have that much now because I give it all away I'm doing a good job of giving my money away I don't believe in you know there's so much need out there uh I kind of feel guilt hoarding and having a bun I have never been a possession freak contrary to what you might see here but uh uh but I'm not really a possession freak well well maybe

taking a step back so we'll get to the building and get to that part of the story but um how how did you make your money where at the Kingo yeah how do I make I was a savior my whole life I I'm not a very good reader and I had a lot of problems at school and uh I kind of figured out I'd have to do with my savings account with children you have you have your children ought to be successful in either one of two ways they had to be good in the school

thing where they're doctor lawyer or something with their education or they better be good with their money and I was always uh saving my money and trying to figure out what to do with my money so I was a saver and you made the majority of your fortune through Kingo yeah I've made other ways of making money too but I did that love to hear well I've always invested in stocks equities and uh real estate I think when you start your career you have all your money in your business do you get a little older

you have liquid instruments like uh stocks and bonds because the best way to destroy your business is not turn your money into cash not paying your bills then you get a loer you have a third in your business a third in uh equities or liquid instruments the third in real estate then when you want to retire it's paid off real estate little bit of stocks stocks and bonds and if you want aggravation you can still have employees how did you how did you take Kinkos from one store like how did you make it a billion

dollar business uh we did when I left it was about three billion um how yeah I guess you know what if people ask you that how did you be when you're four years old how did you get to be 20 years old and so tall you just do it I mean it just happened every day I'd go and I try to make it better one of the things I've always approached my job as things went beautifully without me but whatever I did every day I made it better so if I didn't go to work things

ran I had a system where it ran without me very well well I think for you it maybe comes a little more naturally I think for there's a lot of people out there that are like I'd like to explore entrepreneurship I'd like to make a billion dollars or I'd like to have freedom and so I think it's more like you know to created your fortune you you found that there's this copers and opening a bunch of stores your copers is a great way to make a fortune well I think when you go to someone's Soul

the question is uh do you do you like to do everything yourself and you can you put up with the vagaries of human beings do you want to eat your alphabet soup alphabetically I wouldn't try to get an employee uh uh I was always comfortable uh with ambiguity go on well business is everything I I dealt within my business was an ambiguous decision if you pay people a little bit too much or do you pay them enough what the marginal benefit of a little bit more for health insurance how much benefit do I get out

of that um I think goes back to microeconomics and we don't understand you make decisions on the margins and that's all the executive or the owner does is make marginal decisions and you make marginal decisions every day if you driving the freeway at 65 your chance of getting ticket is zero if you go at 90 you're going to get a higher probability we make marginal decisions instinctively every day but we don't think about it there's a lot of that I guess I'm still the Kinko thing like what was your expectation from the beginning like for

example like when I started my company I didn't I just wanted to make a few thousand dollars and be able to live and and work the way I wanted oh when I started I was in there for the money and it was always for sale just I sold it in 1997 but every day that business was out there was for sale your business is an instrument make you happy you own it it doesn't own you and uh it it makes it's a fundamental thing I think a lot of businesses do is they business people they

say they love their business bullsh you can enjoy your business once you love it you're losing your objectivity and you can't let that business own you you own it a lot of other people like so my father sold copers growing up so we were like you know rabbit yeah yeah he had a competitor rabbit so I as a kid would always go to different stores and defin was around F like fimily boards remember those back in the day but I guess how did how did you distinguish like Kinkos to be able to become a billion

dollar business like there's a lot of other people competing against that well every day out thinking I'm out experimenting out trying my marginal cost was 17 cents I sold for a dollar I always throwing loose nickel at things but what happens when you get a bigger business with like 25,000 employees they become very defensive and they do these stupid things called reviews and it becomes very punitive and uh I try to instill it risk-taking more and more in the culture but it's it's hard when you get kind of uh execu executive itis in there what

what was the top Revenue year you had while you were running the company last year I was there about three billion and paper sale and like copies and prints and posters stationary film processing uh what were some of the experiments you you enjoyed that worked there didn't work uh see I I'll start with I never gave myself too much to do and I was wandering constantly in every store my job was going store to store looking for people are doing right for an example we went I went to San Diego we went to San Diego

and they did a calendar they took 12 pictures and put them on a calendar a color copy we sold $30 they sold for $30 in December and December's a lousy month that was a great discovery we exploited the calendars throughout the country uh one day when I first started I was in the reserve bookroom on a university and most people don't know what a reserve book room is anymore but it's where the professor leaves things on file at the reserve book room and expects you to read it for the test well most people go the

night before the test to get the book and it's not there I had a flyer and uh I told the professors they could leave things with f on file with us as well as the reserve book room and the professors went nuts for the program and uh we expanded to all 50 states and we were doing say six or 7% of the textbooks in Ohio State I guess I'm trying to think of do you think anyone could become a billionaire well I'm not a billionaire uh did you become a billionaire no never never been one

I've just given away all my money I but at the time like no never was H I don't think it's most people will brag about that I think you just underplay it I don't I I would that's I I would say somebody says that I just think about children's security or being kidnapped or and bragado docious that's just not my nature yeah I don't disagree yeah because I my parents had a saying my dad made women's clothes and uh my dad would say uh business with if business is good complain if big if business is

bad boast so I've always been lary of the boasters and and you know also if you're boasting and you have all these look at me cars and all that people are envious they're not really H proud of you or happy for your success they're a lot of times very envious and you don't want to As a matter of intimacy set yourself up as for jealousy and the uh Jewish culture and the Arabic culture they have the evil eye yeah you don't want to set up the the evil eye how did you feel people reacted or

how did you feel when you when that sale happened I felt great I got off my financial all my financial problems I tell you a funny story my wife over here bought a ex-wife bought a TV cabinet for $35,000 and it always pissed me off that cabinet was so goddamn expensive I was very upset with that cabinet I was on Hawk Banks I had debt debt debt debt sold the business I'm happy with the cap I'm happy with a [Laughter] cabinet so you actually felt relief not like you felt relief when youself yeah yes having

I I haven't I was I didn't like responsibility you know when you're younger responsibility is kind of cool then there's a thing called burden there's a fine line responsibility is kind of cool then you get older it becomes a burden and I I got to that point in my uh my late 40s I just didn't enjoy all the responsibility you know people when they go to work with you or for with you you're sort of responsible for them and you want to make sure they have health care and pension and you care about your people

and that just the caring just got to me too much like I remember going to San Antonio with a woman had four kids and she was working in the store and I kept thinking how does she have she's single how does she have any sanity so those are the kind of things that got to me but it sounds like selling made it made your life a lot easier oh yeah yeah I think uh liquidity and makes life a little bit easier not worrying about paying your bills that's I had 30 years of business where I

was worried about paying my bills and I got real tired of it I think that's I'm kind of surprised because like Kingo is selling $3 billion a year no we expanded every year with internal money I never took outside money and uh we we were sub chapter S and I was always expanding with our internal capital I never liked the I never like the group investors I just don't trust them you know what an investor is these Venture capitalists they're like a hitchhiker you pick up the next thing you know you need you run out

of gas or you need some and they take over the car do you wish you you worked less no I work enough I didn't I actually uh that's a good question that I worry if hard work is worrying I was a hard worker but put many many hours at work I wasn't there I was was always wandering and worrying that was my job was it worth it all the work and the worrying now at the time you could have I was in my 40s I didn't sleep right my neck always hurt and I had bad

gas now I don't have any gas I sleep like a baby and my neck doesn't hurt stress caus a little bit of problems what regrets do you have from that time well I was under so much pressure financially I didn't say enough thank yous I work with really wonderful people and uh I didn't say thank you enough to still say thank you I see Dan Dan and CeCe I thank you thank them and I they're the president of the company and CC works very closely with me in my personal life um but I never really

thanked him enough what' you say I should say thank you but at the time I was not I just you know when you're in the middle of it all it's just hard to be grateful you're just so have so much pressure you're just like Hey we're focused on work here things we got problems we got no I I was just internally focused on paying my bills and all that and I I was joal and very convivial to the managers managers man they they did like me because I everything I did was to Plate the man

please the maner managers at the store but the executives they could feel my Fury a little bit I guess with that being the case was it all worth it oh yeah yeah I think I had two choices of life I could have been right here where I am now or I would have been the homeless there was no place in the middle for a guy like me why well I can't read very well I uh second grade I flun second grade and I had the Blue Paddle I man she paddled the hell out of me

in third grade I had to go to school with uh in Hollywood eight kids in the class two or 18 years old I kept thinking like why I'm 8 years old why am I in school like this then I had to go to reading I had to go to an eye doctor three days a week and finally my I learned how to read my parents said every word I ever read cost them $50 and I graduated from high school eth in the bottom of my class at 1200 and the United States draft is the reason

I'm a college graduate plus I wanted to go to college it was great place to grow up so I graduated what advice do you have for someone who's starting out that wants to be an entrepreneur there think about that well go to your soul and see if you really wanted because there a a lot of sleepless nights and a lot of uncertainty maybe you're better off just having a job but you got to go to your rubber ducky in your bathtub and say do I really want this aggravation it really is a lot of sleepless

nights and how well do you deal with ambiguity you found out that you enjoyed it I had no choice no it would have been nice if I didn't have so much uncertainty but it would have been nice if just went there and it just worked real well like a sheine it didn't that's always interesting in business because I think from the outside we think it does like when you watch someone's like oh it must be just perfect but I guess the inside no no no no business is an art form if Da Vinci came back

you'd say wow man I think I could have done some more pink in that picture a little more blue they're artist it's always can be done better then they're never done it's never perfect it can always be improved what was your first job what was the first like business you started in the first job you oh I uh went to the market and brought some strawberries and sold them door to door it's about 9 years old I just bought them at the retail store and sold them I was doing door-to-door stuff I was like hustling

that's my favorite if anything I like the best of sales how did you learn so I don't know you just do it sell newspapers you just just I sold you know the Easter Seals or the Christmas Christmas stamps I used to hustle those in grade school it just came easy to me I don't know how I just sold one thing I was thinking about for you is how many because you did you know you sold Kinkos for a billion and a half you don't like when I say that to you my parents my parents my

mother and father would shake in their boots if they ever knew I was braggadocious about something like that I guess I've always thought though like what's the line between Bradas and like being proud of what you accomplished I think braad is like I made all this money and look at all these things and and because I think for myself I feel similar where I'm self-conscious about it but there's a there's probably a F line between pride and arrogance you're right but I I'm superstitious about taking myself seriously when I do I always get my kicked

and you get you know an investment and you think your doesn't stink that's when you get your ass kicked when did that happen oh one day I had to get back to school in January and I had all the money I needed had the money I needed to get me through the summer and I'm driving back from La I live in Santa Barbara and uh think of myself God I'm doing really well I'm just my doesn't stink the next day the entire publishing industry in the United States of America sued me and I thought man

the next time you take yourself seriously you better not I thought it was just such a coincidence so just one time yeah no just a lot every time in the stock market I take myself seriously and I think I'm going to get my I just get my every time it's too good to be true I get my buying real estate I bought a farm it just too good to be true it just always happens farm store I bought some Farm avocado thing up here I could not have managed a damn avocado Orchard and the people

came in and stole all my avocados I couldn't do it was a horrible thing and I yeah I had no business in that business how how much was the fun oh at the time was about $3 million and then what' you end up songing for about three million oh yeah not so bad but it was a lot of aggravation I think the part that you're saying that I I resonate with is being mindful of your it's not bravado but having the balance of humility to being a beginner or being able to experiment and wonder and

not thinking that we are so great and it it's also good to be have some confidence though in what you're also doing well way down deep you and my soul back when I started I wasn't too confident I was always insecure and I was always paranoid about the guy across the street wiping me out always and I per most of the the people I worked with were in the business and they loved it I was always across street looking in that was my vantage point and I knew every strategic weakness we had that's where I

spent my time fixing those weaknesses or removing just understanding them fantasizing what a competitor would do to kick my ass my dad was in the woman's made wh dresses if you're in the fashion business you my you could people knock you off that's a Cutthroat business you understand competition is out there to kick your ass so what did you do against them what what did you do against competition outm out outm you have to you remember in microeconomics the definition of pure competition it was easy and exit easy entry and exit from the market a

homogeneous product and price is the reason you bought well when I started the government up the street had a better contract for the Xerox machine they had subsidized labor and free rent now how am I going to compete when a copy is a copy it's white paper on a bunch of crud cred on a black piece how do I compete with this so I had outsmart the school we looked longer hours gave great customer service had synergistic products like binding and stationary with the uh copying I grew up on Kinkos was cool to to be

able to that was awesome which store uh San Jose there's also there's one in I mean Austin we have fex Kinkos was good stores Austin San Jose we had good stores those are really good stores in Austin what makes it a good store like Sal that's what I had to study all the time I spent all my time in the good stores understanding why that's interesting I didn't go to the bad stores because you have Executives to worry about the bottom 10% but I was always studying why some of them was successful and I I

was always studying Houston we had two stores in Houston I had bad parking both of them and I they were so successful what made a good store was the manager the morale of the manager man it was a manager Centric business and I could take a good manager and put him in a bad store and become a good store I could take a bad manager put him in a good store and become a bad store what made a good manager it's a it's a kind of an ethereal quality I I I could tell when I

walked in the stores I could see it in the eyes of the workers I could just tell if I'm going to have a good visit or a bad visit uh and then also I'd look in the little s text God damn it I got so many issues I have that business I was fighting them all the time you'd walk in the store my dad took me window shopping I understood what it was like from the window looking in from the out looking in I that's my dad's vantage point my vantage point so you go to

the front door and i' travel with a bunch of senior people and i t stop at the front door and I say now what is your sense of neatness and proportionality here was then I contrast that to the cash register looking out from the cash reg looking out we were the most neat organized business on Earth but from the front door in we weren't I had a big battle with the field over that one just to get we were in that we were operating company that happened to sell and I wanted to convert US to

a selling company that operated and uh that was part of my frustration how many other businesses have you started because I think that's one thing that people miss out on like yes you I'm going to keep saying because I think it's super cool but you sold a company for it did very well but I don't know if they hear all the other swings and things had a lot of different businesses I did a I did coffee shops espresso cappuccino before Starbucks and uh I was going to try to put them collocated with us next to

Kos and then we did a 24-hour dry cleaners now wouldn't you go to dry cleaners where they spoke English and open 24 hours day uh so I wanted to open up these trip centers uh where you had 24-hour businesses and uh but and then I started uh have you ever been to Berkeley you've been you know Top Dog yeah what did you notice in Top Dog small Grill's clo did you notice how many people were in line it's always crowded that might be an indication of success so I did a I tried to knock off

top dog here in Santa Barbara I screwed up because we did it in the middle of skid r i did data mining businesses I did I did so many businesses most of them a lot of them failed what are some of the other ones that didn't work or did work just trying to think of them all why am I throwing a loose nickel at something I mean if that sounds like a good idea just but most of the time it's the if it's a good person you will invest with them I did two ing businesses

to should I I can't think of them all if you had to describe how people should live their lives in decades how would you think about that I have a good answer for that yeah my mother said honey in your 20s try everything in your 30s figure out what you do best in your 40s make money for what you do best and try not to do too much in your 50s and then another thing about your life is when you're in your 20s you really do care what people think about you you get to be

40 you don't really care what people think about you then you get to be 60 you realize no one thought you in the first place Bob Hope said that that's interesting because I feel like you would have succeeded no matter what and I guess it depends on how you define success too no I don't think so I was lucky luck has more to do with life than we might think luck has a lot more to do with it what are some of the luck that you have oh I opened the first location there's a garage

and it would happen to be in the main artery of the campus that luck uh the Publishers when I lost the lawsuit with the Publishers they had an injunction that I was able to stay in business uh they liked us uh oh just one time I was lucky I don't know like this sounds really weird but I was in the top 12-story building and I was dropping Coke bottles on the Sunday uh down to see how they crash because nobody was walking into the Streetside and something H my hand and right then an old lady

walked by I would have K killed her now you know something held my hand you don't call that luck or Divine proit I don't know it's kind of a I think there's a an interesting balance in life where there is luck of timing and things that happen but there's also all the the worry and the Wonder and the effort that you did put in across I think thing I was trying to heard other entrepreneurs too it's like I also I'm I think hearing from you you tried a lot of things and one worked out exceptionally

yeah right and but they don't hear about all these other reps failures um I see all these big shots they think that uh they built the business their customers building their business how well you can read a customer and I remember President Obama gave a a great speech it was a bunch of business people I said hey by the way you think you built this business Mr business person didn't government pay for the education of human beings didn't we provide good roads didn't we have a way for you to have uh uh systems of shipping

things and you think you built that business was government a partner for you it was a great speech I'm going to come back on this so you sold your company for some number that we're not going to talk about we're not going to call Oh I thought that was you uh you still coming for a billion and a half how did how have you enjoyed the money oh was easy what I enjoy is oh you don't understand the luxury of waking up every morning and not worrying and thinking about what you want to think about

I like that part the best I wake up every day with a clean slate of something I didn't have to do yesterday or worry about yesterday's problems and I uh it's interesting I going to talk about tenses and you have an organization the owners are in the future managers of the present and accounts of the past so I was uh always talk it's interesting to be in the future and worried about stuff tomorrow I like that a lot what are ways that you got to enjoy the money because a lot of our audiences younger people

who aspired they I guess part of the question is they're like is it worth it to try to work my ass off to make a billion dollars and is that is that the life that people should be living is that a blueprint because that much A million dollars you know sooner or later you're gonna wake up to yourself and figure it out it comes from within and uh what's really sad is you wake up with all that you same miserable person you started with you look at these movie stars they say to themsel so God

I got everything that makes me happy how come I'm still a miserable movie star that's so uh just kind of and I being smug about I've got enough money to live a comfortable life I take that for granted you think so well I'm could be smug about it what are some of the Silly Ways you spent your money are most fun or weirdest ways that you've enjoyed orend like I mean you have a tank in your backyard I have a tank and a police car but that police car out there cost me $5,500 and the

tank cost me $8,000 I'm proud of it I got a good deal on it uh what what are other things like that I bought this goddamn airplane to be a big shot that thing cost me more than the airplane because to be a big shot I had to have projects around the country flying constantly to you know justify Big Shot airplane no that that cost me a lot of money more than the airplane a lot more being a big shot when I sold the business I became a big shot and uh I did a lot

of real estate developments I shouldn't have gotten into I started uh investing in equities buying portions of companies I shouldn't have been doing yeah so I big shot I just cost you a lot of money and I I I don't know I didn't never it just didn't work how would you have done that over I would have been contented with just buying good old stocks and bonds being contented with a income property have what was the plane or how much was the plane that you bought oh the plane was about $22 million do you want

to hear a good story about that plane no I think we we can cut I think we're yeah of course that that's so interesting I me because people dream like it are you cutting right now no no no I'm joking I'm Jo no like this is the super interesting these big damn companies are stupid if you know their are accounting procedures you can take big time advantage of them I'm going to get back to the airplane but I used to go to zerox and I'd say oh zerox you've got this fantastic new machine I want

to buy four 400 of them and I'll pay the list price I'll pay whatever you want but all I want you to do is extend the service contract for four years and they would what's a machine a machine is just a damn punch of metal all I want to do is get the copies at the end I could sell so uh they would give me the sell me these machines and I get four years 24 hour of free pars and maintenance and I blast those things 24 hours a day so uh with the airplane this

was during the recession when uh the bad Bush wanted to get reelected the warmonger in bad Bush uh he had in 2004 50% depreciation so if you bought something you got to write up 50% of it so I went to the airplane company I said hey you know by the way I'll pay your list price just give me four years or three years of free service well an airplane cost every time an hour it cost $300 an hour for parts and tires and all that or $400 an hour I blasted the I had to pay

for was gasoline and I had a charter business so I made some good money in the chartering business but uh that's all about the airplane but also I was on the airplane a lot being a big shot which cost a lot of money do you still have the plan no no I don't want to go anywhere I'm sort of like done with hotel rooms just get tired of try going to the bathroom and end up going to a closet in the middle of the night I just got tired of it I guess what this question

might sound strange are you happy today oh yeah happy every yeah I I you work out your demons as you get older you know you had a lot of internal demons everybody does in their 20s 30s and 40s but now I've accepted myself I think anxiety and ambition are the best of friends so I was very a lot of anxiety and ambition and the anxiety sometimes overwhelms you and it makes you sort of interested perspective and insecure and I was rejected a lot in school I couldn't read bad Z here I don't think the girls

particularly like me so you come from that background as a kid and you still have that with you you know what's interesting you always have the 13-year-old and the adult and they're always fighting the 13-year-old is vulnerable insecure and the adult is always fighting with that 13-year-old no matter what you do in life and finally after period of time you get older you know how to put the 13-year-old in this proper place I think about that a lot just about accepting ourselves like just accepting whatever whatever way it is across the board for everyone it's

hard it comes with time and age you have your and you not married you don't have ch children yet after you've raised your children you can it's a lot easier because you know you've done the sperm bank thing well coming back on the plane cuz I I do think there's also some interesting pieces there what what other other things that you you maybe didn't spend money well on liquor I drank too much uh my first wife was a good spender she spent money for all of us and uh my my one of I married to

now I really admire her because she's Frugal and she manages her money and I do respect fality how did your wife impact when you running the company how did that impact positively or negatively having a family as uh I'll say it bluntly you're every time things got really bad she was the most difficult and I subconsciously think that that wives do not want to be the nurtur and secure person you're the bread winner you better go out and kick some ass so every time you want to come home like a wounded little dog they're going

to say not here you get out there kicks some ass so I think that's uh what happened but I I didn't necessarily have a when I was in business I didn't feel like I was uh nurtured but I don't think she should have done it she wanted me to go out kick some ass but inevitably when things get real bad I think your spouse isn't necessarily there for you and maybe that's justifiable who who was there for you oh you know what a friend is a friend is somebody who's happy when you're happy and my

parents were always in my corner and I had uncles and aunts that I knew they were always in my corner so I think your family or it's finding people that are in the corner yeah my my mother used to say a friend is somebody who's happy when you're happy because anybody can be miserable when you're miserable but how many people can you call when something really cool happens so they share your joy I think one of the things I've noticed in business for myself and others is like how much is enough and like there's this

this Chase I know I know but it's never enough it's just a game isn't it when you it's just a game if what's enough enough when does Tom Brady say I've had enough of football I think when Jazelle leaves in this year it's probably the last year what what are some of your memorable moments for you during the Kingo room I don't you know my I shouldn't say this with of myund most my best memories of my life Kinkos isn't one of them I just remember always being stressed out and worrying and there's a lot

more to worry in when you have your business so I was ready for it to be sold a lot long prior than I when I sold it did you have to I guess did you need to worry as much like would you have been as successful if you didn't do as much wearing I don't know worrying and you see I had a lot of time in my hands I never gave myself too many too many things I had to do so I was always wandering looking at what people were doing right studying and but in

the middle of the night those bills were always there and I was always trying to expand fast with my had money in the checkbook that was a problem what would you say is a top memory when I sold the business how was that was the best day looked at the cabinet I thought oh God I like this cabinet now how was it when you received the money that day like what happens like oh it's just euphoric like all the burdens of the world just left how did that day go can you walk me through that

day oh I took a walk and I was just like joyous and it was just like I can breathe again did how'd you celebrate I forgot I probably had a few cocktails maybe spoke to join or too this is in was it in New York what was it in New York no I sold it but I was in California I've always lived in California Santa Barbara been it's a nice place sving is like my favorite place on Earth yeah I like it here this is this is one of the better places I've ever been I've

been here 55 50 years great place to raise your children it's funny because I was going to ask what's the lowest moments of Kingo but I feel like there you kind ask what are some of the lowest Mo lower moments I got sued by the Publishers was the lowest and then they got the injunction against me that was a low moment what was the injunction again injunction was we got annihilated by the you [Music] know I knew I was going to get sued by the publisher sooner or later I didn't and if they we wanted

them in the ninth circuit because they consider Californians in the courthouse like kind of like not more like Carefree the second circuit is New York and I never wanted to give the damn Publishers jurisdiction in the second circuit but we we had that publishing program and we did in the second circuit and they got me in their backyard and the judge just in just gave us a verdict was and an injunction that she told the Publishers you can write the injunction and you know you remember a guy named Bill oh I forget there his name

he saved my business his name was Jim L he saved my business you remember McNeil a report on TV oh what happened well he I went to a uh I was sounds like a br I was at the White House getting award for being a lousy student and Jim Lair was there waiting to see the president I I went up to him I said you know I really lik your TV show about the your heart attack and the stamy sandwiches and he said you know that's of all the things I've done on TV that's the

one people remember the most so years later I got the publishing the Publishers sued me and they invited me to be given an address to all the textbook manufacturers and Jim Lair was there the night before giving the keynote and he gave a plug for us and that's what I think saved my business the next day I gave a speech saying I'm so sorry forgive me I didn't know that Maricopa Maricopa Maricopa and they wrote an injunction I could stay on business but it did have criminal sanctions if we screwed up again I could have

gone to jail so what were they saying you were doing like copying textbooks or oh we were taking you know let's say a teacher wanted little bit of this book this book this book it was called anthologies or they wanted to teach you or like in the case of New York we try to argue that onethird of Doris kar's Goodwin book was fair use which was like that is legitimate taking of a book a copyright well we we obviously lost that what do you think what do most people not know when you become very wealthy

what because I guess I was wondering people contact you a lot like hey Paul let me get some money or like do people say hey you should buy a plane now like what happens when you become oh they they ask you for charity or bug you a lot my favorite is do you care about the poor people the starving people in Ethiopia like what are you gonna say no I don't care about them or I care I don't have the money for him I can't cure that problem so uh that's some of the stuff you

get or just some we'll have do you mind if I talk to you about a business opportunity so I'm pretty good at getting out of work and I'm getting out of I'm pretty good at getting out of those conversations but I think it's a lot of nerve to ask me for charity some of these wealthy folks here ask me for charity I think come on you can't give your own money and I have my own pet causes what are they my main is uh in California we have this horrible sales uh way of funding public

schools that the fancy one is in my neighborhood gets $37,000 per student per year 2 miles away is a school in a more impoverished area they get $10,500 a year tell me that is in any way fair so we try to equalize the the poorer schools we uh uh I have an orth we have an orthodonture program where we uh help fix the children's Title One children's teeth it seems to me that you have quality uh orthodon you can have happier life better incar less incarceration better college graduation Etc so uh we that's one of

my pet projects I think maybe if I before I die I'd like to make sure every child has a pathway to orthodon especially in The Superficial California where you are gazed by your smile yeah how how did you read your with money like how did you that's a good question how do I teach my kids money skills yeah okay when they're six years old or five years old I'd give them $5 a week and they had to keep a log $3 for spending a dollar for giving and a dollar for savings so if they would

go like to someplace and they say Dad will you buy me the Coca-Cola I say yeah you got your own money why don't you buy yourself one they say oh no no no I can't afford that and then they my wife was ex-wife was into the school thing which I was uh they knew that I was about saving the money and what to do with your money as a child they would do a lemonade stand over here a lot of people do lemonade stands in front of their house are stupid I put it right in

front of the supermarket my we sold $200 uh of the cookie I saw so many damn cookies and lemonade I just went inside and bought the lemonade from the market and uh I take them right away to the bank and I'd always ask about their savings I take it then when they were eight years old I had we a suit and tie and see a stock broker and I left the room so the my kids fortunately have good money skills I think it's very important and a lot of parents aren't doing the thing about money

skills they're letting the stupid grade the schools dictate their children's happiness 100% like I was raised very similarly where it was like we're GNA get you a bank account we're GNA talk about money and it's just it's shocking how many people have no clue it's unbelievable yeah and I don't think they're Street Smart like you were on the streets of LA I was the middle of LA and you understand Street smarts of money one thing I was I was curious is like how do you think did Legacy impact your decision- making in your career like

Legacy yeah like how you thought you wanted to be remembered no I didn't care about that never crossed my mind I could remember you anyway 100 years now [Laughter] yeah I think sometimes it's like we're probably none of us are going remembered no I don't think that's what you live for I never think of it all the universe and how insignificant we are in the universe I think about that sometimes what do you think uh what was it like before I was born and uh before I was born was there a god I didn't where

was I and then where my going to be after I'm dead I hope there's somebody to go to but I think about that a lot what Infinity is now Infinity could be one second in between one second is infinity so you could have Infinity of happiness or being with God in just one second I've been thinking about that lately i' like being I really admire people with a strong faith because it is a big Comfort I get what do you want that happen or what do you think happen I'd like to go to financial heaven

but uh and so if you get if you have ability do you get to go to like an Express Heaven that would be nice I I I you know what Christ said once that it's harder for a wealthy person to go to heaven than it is for a camel to fit in the eye of a needle so uh I kind of don't think when I look at these fancy churches I don't think Christ was in the fancy churches I think he was more like down home uh hang loose I'm a forgiving type person I just

don't recognize Christ and how the religious right view his presence I mean I just don't get it taking a step back for someone St how do you think someone today can become a millionaire that's something that that's what there is use your eyes use your eyes and your intuition but fortunately we're too damn rational a lot of times it's intuitive we don't trust our Instinct why does a customer want to buy something and uh I think a lot of people aren't cut out for their own business my biggest problem at Kingo we had two or

three workers in a store and the leader of that store knew everything about things I left a business with 40 50 workers in a location the leader of that business knew a lot about people not things some people feel comfortable managing things and some people feel comfortable managing people don't try to do if you're a thing person don't try to be a a people person and it reminds me of the mayag repair person their spouse would say why don't you come promoted manage the other uh repair people and they have a nervous breakdown some people

aren't cut out for it I do office hours on YouTube for free I'll do like um once a month and someone asked my mom my mom like showing up and they asked her they said do you think everyone should be an entrepreneur and she and it was the first time I realized that people shouldn't actually be it like it's really not for like there's some people like honestly being an employee or working for someone else is actually a great thing yeah I guess I always assume that everyone has a everyone should have a chance at

Le if they want to do what what I I took a course at Harvard for three weeks for three years and then they uh talk about like-mindedness entrepreneurs think everybody's like them but they aren't people like predictability which I would have been nice in my career the um how how did curios how do you use curiosity to come up with business ideas and how did that help you come up with king COD oh I was at SC and they were in line at SC making zero copies and I figured why W the same people uh

be in line in Santa Barbara so would that complicated they're in line here they're in line here I didn't have to take a lot of LSD and ruminate over the damn idea what do you observing in terms of business ideas in today's economy oh there's so many but the kids are too high for Loot and they want to do all these high fluen things it's just down and dirty stuff like every time you park your car why isn't somebody washing it for you why don't you go to the place and say I I open a

car wash for you charge $40 you're going to lunch two hours later you get a car wash I mean why what's Happ What's happen all that little hustle so I'm I'm a hustler I like to sell and I like to get down and dirty one thing I noticed with you in business and just in how you live your life it seems like you it I'm pression meeting for a few hours it's you like to inject fun and and I also when I hear you talk what I admire is you talk about you know work life

balance as well as having fun with what you're working on not just like always has to be a grind oh yeah because to be successful you have to have three things in balance work love and play and it's a tripod if you work too hard your tripod screwed up but you have to have a balance and I really did strive for a balance I I really enjoyed my children I played a lot with them and uh I didn't worry when I was supposed to worry at night but I when I was there I was there

with my family how did you inject fun into Kinkos oh it's very important in the culture alcohol [Laughter] um no because people loosen their lips in alcohol and uh we would have a company picnic were five people throughout the country to come to the picnic and the theologians of the business wanted to make an account convention it's a picnic a celebration every anthropological organization has a pig roasting and they do something to celebrate once a year and so it was just a celebration and uh most people don't understand also liquor is a great way to

have intimacy and fun in a business that was something you used in interviews you said for for job interviews I would always interview somebody I'd like to see and I'd like to see what they're like these take them to dinner I'd like to see what they were like with they when they had a few drinks in Latin they call it invito Veritas and whne there is truth what other traditions did you have at King oh you have to have Traditions um a picnic we would celebrate anniversaries celebrate a lot of things my the guy I

worked with Dan Fredericks was really good about giving recognition I wasn't that good at it and what of my Mackie Vil and see was give the glory keep the money people do a lot for Glory a recognition tell me tell me one word of this give the glory keep the money people look at the military they give you a stupid little feather and you can't wait to go out and attack a machine gun but you couldn't offer anybody $50 billion to attack a machine gun how did you give Glory a can Coke oh a lot

of recognition pins and uh memorabilia and plaques and all that very important in the culture of a business people really want to be recognized you also don't seem like you and in my impression you don't follow a lot of rules or you don't want to be a part of rules as much I hate the rules committee yeah so you had a human rules team or I guess HR HR P that was a thing that got to be so big it ended up taking so many desks and I never understood what the hell that we needed

HR for and one time they came to a group of us like a board meeting and maybe there were 20 people in the room and the HR department came in and said oh we had zero lawsuits last year from the HR like Fir and people and stuff and everybody's going that's really good that's really good and I said I want to predict a bunch of lawsuits that means you're keeping a bunch of dead beats in these stores I don't want that zero lawsuits but that's how most businesses they have edicts and they don't allow ambiguity

it's I want a few lawsuits tells me that we're sticking our neck out enough did you get some lawsuits what did you guys get some lawsuits no I think the next year we had I don't remember but uh we were we were kind of a nice one of the things I regret in the old business is cander wasn't important get along was too important we all got along so well and I don't think we were a candid as candid as we should have been with each other just more direct more direct and candid what the

hell we I wasn't but the people I worked with seemed too finesse full and too want to be liked rather than candid at at the peak how many people were working there 25,000 around the world how's that for you responsible you feel responsible when you you just feel responsible I can't I I had I spoked a lot of pot in college and I went and saw my finance professor and I said oh you know all you do is make money make a bunch of for yourself and it just seems and he gave me that look

like uh you won't understand the responsibility you have when you have your own business and is so damn true you have people really rely on you and your representations you want to shake someone's hand and honor your commitments everything is easy to the person who doesn't have to do it they they tell me that all the time at work you don't have to do it how come it's so easy for you yeah what were some of the memorable customer stories or people you worked with stories across the that 25,000 or across the millions of people

that that chop the king oh my favorite story is I went to the Hawaii store I went the lady I worked there just thr me out of my mind and she had an affair with a guy at the downtown store and the guy at downtown got they broke up and he got fired and he moved to New Mexico and he works in a copy shop and he has aair with the wife of the owner and they conspired to murder the father husband so he buys a knife she buys a knife and put it on her

visic card mistake so he comes out of the bushes in the park kills the guy knives himself with a groin and the woman from Hawaii calls me up and says David's been in some trouble in Albuquerque can you help him out murder one I'm going to help out this guy yeah that was my favorite story that's how do you one thing I'm noticing is a people you know there's this this uh pattern of life like you work hard if you're an entrepreneur or not you can make a lot of money and then there's like the

giving period like when I'm giving away all my money yeah how do you okay so take a step you seen Brewster's Million what do you remember the movie Brewsters million it's with Eddie Murphy he's got he's got one day to spend 24 uh one day to spend a million bucks or $30 million but he can't have anything to show how do you spend all that money like how do you give it away like how do you even think about oh that's so easy there's so many Charities that worthwhile um but how do you vet it

how do you think no I I get involved with elementary schools and when we get involved we say every now every CH child should know how to swim 50% of the Latino community in my Latinos in my community don't know how to swim that's a sin they can go through grade school and not know how to swim they don't know how to ride a bike uh they have what school is so horrible about imagine you graduate from high school you have no clue of uh financial management you don't have a they eat garbage they don't

have a good appreciation of nutrition uh they don't have conflict resolution in school are you going to get married you're going to have a conflict you think might take a course in it you should have a parenting course in school but yet the Pythagorean theorem is important how did you decide which ones to give money to and oh I go to tile one schools where there's a lot of impoverished people and you could tell by how many are in free free reduced lunch and so uh you'll find them those poor schools and so I we

go to them and we have a commitment that they uh the orthodon ETC and that they get to go to the same summer camp that the the one down here gets to go to the modesty their unions of the world the wealthier kids and we'd start with ropes courses like for an example I remember going to school I hated every human being in that school the first day of school school but if you do a ropes course that means they do something collectively it'll help integrate you into the school just going through something challenging yeah

no yeah what do you what what do you think there's what are other counterintuitive pieces about wealthy people oh I think there's a lot of inherited wealth that uh they think they deserve it my favorite is I work so hard for my inheritance they're politically conservative I just but that really irritates me how you could be conservative going down the birth canal inheriting all that money you what's the difference between an inherited wealth and a welfare chisler I don't get the difference was of a chisler a welfare they I remember sitting in this guy was

a very wealthy man he knew he' inherit a bunch of money and he was talking about the welfare of chiselers and I kept thinking were you inherited money what's the difference between you and a welfare person you didn't either one of you so and I found my worst landlords at Kinkos were children of wealthy people inherited wealth because I kind of think if you inherit money it's what how much you lose not how much you make how do you spend your days and and when wrap up how do you how do you I go to

breakfast with my friends I have a workout at 10:00 I go to lunch maybe take a nap in the afternoon or watch TV I don't have a lot of I'm I'm really good at getting out of work I don't have that much to do I teach school at USC in lyola I've been teaching for 30 years and I like teaching but I don't have to it's like they come to my it's sort of like they come to my living room and I have a meal for the students and we just visit and I have a

few canned lectures or canned things I want to get across but everything I I everything I teach is how to ask a question life's about questions not the answers so they go around the room and everybody I give a newspaper article usually things in the newspaper or the news are ambiguous situations and so they ask questions sort of like an editorial board you know when the editor goes to the newspaper people go well this event happened 911 how would you cover it it's a really gives her idea of what article they would write about 911

that's sort of how I do it I guess a final question for me what what makes a great life oh family I think family and children you know what success is success is when your children want to be with you when they're adults that's success how many people could be have all that and their kids don't come home for the holidays come on been called whole dumb sh my whole life the most cool thing I've ever been called in my entire life is Dad if you like this video you are going to love this video

right up here where I knock on millionaires doors and ask them how to get rich and make sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't already Uncle Noah loves you and I'll see you out there PE PE