Hobbes vs Spinoza on Human Nature: Political Ramifications

um thank you very much Pat and um thank you all for coming this afternoon I'm overwhelmed at the uh number of people who are interested in Hobs and Spinosa and uh delighted to have been invited here um Spinoza's political philosophy owes a great deal um to his contemporary Thomas Hobbs um for espinos as for Hobbs before him um the Commonwealth is the result of individuals who come together and create structures that enable them to live together in relative peace and enable them to prosper individually and collectively for Spinosa as for Hobs the character of this

Commonwealth is a consequence of a certain conception of human nature the urge people have to persist in being and Advance their own interest it's this endeavor for self-preservation that makes life so unbearable outside of society in a state of nature and which induces us to come together and to form a civil society however I'm going to argue uh there's a crucial difference at the foundations of these two thinkers for both Hobs and Spinoza political philos philosophy is grounded in a conception of human nature that itself is ultimately grounded um in human biology and psychology and

ultimately in the laws of physics we are the way we are because our of our physical and for Spinosa psychological makeup but for Hobs human nature is a stable and unchanging ground for politics take away society and return to um um um uh the state of nature uh and we return to being the same creatures um uh that we were before entering into society however for Spinosa I'm going to argue it's quite different um for Spinosa we're genuinely changed in fundamental Ways by being uh by by being members of society by particip ating in society

so I'm going to begin with a discussion of um human nature in Hobs and I'll be I'll be reasonably brief here since I think that his position is relatively clear and relatively straightforward um and I'm going to spend the greater part of the time talking about um um Spinoza's position which is I think um relatively more subtle and more complicated on this issue so let me Begin by talking a bit about Hobbs um Hobs Central project in the 1640s and 1650s was what he called the elements of philosophy um though published out of order it

had three parts um at the foundation was the de corpora on body published in 1655 followed by the deom on man published in 1658 um um the first deals with body and physics the second deals with a body of particular interest to us that's to say the human being uh which is treated of course as a body um the final book of the series is the one that he actually published first the Dei um on the citizen first edition published in 1642 with a second edition with some important changes published in 1648 um and This

concerns the citizen and the Commonwealth of which the citizen is a part um the order here is very important not the order of publication but the order of the um um uh the sort of um intellectual order in which they're uh structured um the knowledge of the proper organization of the Commonwealth depends on the knowledge of the makeup of human human beings um and this is a quotation um the first one on your sheet I won't call attention almost all of the quotations um um are on the hand out uh and this is from the

um um um the de corpora uh for the knowledge of the properties of a commonwealth it is necessary first to know the dispositions affections and manners of men uh but Hobbs argues the knowledge of human beings depends upon the knowledge of physics um and he writes after physics um we must come to moral philosophy in which we are to consider the Motions of the Mind literally the Motions of the Mind the Motions that go on in the brain and in the heart namely appetite aversion love benevolence hope fear anger emulation Envy Etc what causes they

have and what they be causes and the reason why these are to be considered after physics is that they have their causes in sense and Imagination which are the subject of physical contemplation because as we had learned or that we will learn in in in in deoro chapter 25 um um um sense and Imagination are just motions um in the brain um since as Hobbs argues everything in the world is B everything that goes on in the human body including appetite aversion Etc must be explicable only in terms of the motion of smaller bodies that

make us up and consequently these features of human beings must be explained um by his physics uh in this way physics must ground the science of man uh the de corpora must ground the deom and in turn the state is itself a comp Lex body made up out of human bodies as Hobbs writes in the famous line at the beginning of the Leviathan um for by Art is created that great Leviathan called The Commonwealth or state in Latin ktas which is but an artificial man though of Greater stature and strength than the natural um and

thus the DEA must follow the deom we can of course have some direct knowledge of human nature without learning it through the study of physics and I quote um for the causes of the Motions of the Mind are known not only by rosin but also by the experience of every man that takes the pains to observe those motions within himself so we can we can know something about human psychology not by tracing it all the way up through biology but by our own immediate experience but even so um um it is Hobbs is clear that

it is that that that human psychology is grounded directly in human biology um in our nature as material bodies in a material world we behave the way we do characteristically because of our physical makeup now because of the kinds of creatures that we are when thrown together in what he calls the state of nature it can be predicted that we will behave in certain characteristic ways the details of the argument are complicated and no two commentators can seem to agree about how exactly the argument Works uh but somehow or another and for our purposes here

this afternoon doesn't really matter how exactly it works um uh somehow or another because quote Nature has made men so equal in the faculties of body and mind Leviathan account at least of this works and because we all desire to preserve ourselves against aggression and seek our own Advantage humans in the state of nature find themselves in a state of Perpetual conflict quote hereby it is Manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in all they are in that condition which is called war and such a war as

is of every man against every man or as Hobs puts it in his summ quote out of civil states there is always war of everyone against everyone the passions that put us into this condition of war include competition diffidence and glory and this again is the Leviathan account the accounts in a couple of his other works are subtly different than that but Jus in the Leviathan is what he says but life in such condition that's to say without outside of the state is clearly unpleasant solitary poor nasty brutish and short as he puts it in

his famous phrase Hobbs is such a great writer because of that there are also quote passions that incline men to peace in particular quote fear of death desire of such things as are necessary to commodious living and a Hope by their industry to obtain them but reason as well counsels that we seek peace and follow it this in fact is what Hobbs calls his first and fundamental law of nature but Hobbs argues the laws of nature and these are the laws that are dictated by reason the laws of nature of themselves without the terror of

some power to cause them to be observed are contrary to our n natural passions that carry us to partiality Pride revenge and the like and Covenants without the sword are but words and of no strength to secure a man at all therefore notwithstanding the laws of nature that's to say not not the physical laws of nature but these these laws of re that that reason dictates therefore not withstanding the laws of nature if there be no power or rect or not great enough for our security every man will and may lawfully rely on his own

strength and art for caution against all other men to erect such a power to create laws and enforce them through the fear of punishment through a mutual Covenant is precisely to create a commonwealth how exactly this is done is again a matter of some controversy among the commentators but one way or another it's clear that this is hs's story through reason oh the reason and the calmer passions uh move us to want to live in peace with one another our fiercer passions oppose that in order to live in peace we must transfer our rights to

a sovereign a power capable of keeping our baser passions in check through the fear of punishment now this much is I think fairly uncontroversial at least in outline that as I said the details of how exactly it is that the argument works are much contested and a lot of the commentary on hubs is precisely trying to figure out what the arguments are um but what I want to emphasize but the the general outlines are certainly uncontroversial uh but what I want to emphasize um is a feature of hobbs' politics that is somewhat less obvious but

nevertheless I think very much there behind this conception of politics lies I think a static and unchanging conception of human nature no no doubt there are many ways in which we are altered by our association with other people one important way in which society can change us and does for example is through education Hobbs is quite clear about the connection between thought and action and this is not on your handout but uh from uh Leviathan chapter 18 uh for the actions of men proceed from their opinions and in the well governing of opinions consists the

wellgo of men's actions in order to their peace and Concord um it's for that reason that quote it belongs therefore to him that has the Sovereign power to be judge or constitute all judges of opinions and doctrines as a thing necessary to peace thereby to prevent Discord and Civil War it's hobbs' famous doctrine that um um um The Sovereign is to be the judge of what what are appropriate opinions including for example things like proper theological opinions the question of what constitutes Holy Scripture how it's to be interpreted and so on and so forth it

is The Sovereign that is the ultimate um um um Authority um on all of that um now of course um Hobs knows perfectly well that The Sovereign can't direct us to have one belief or another quote and this is from chapter 42 of Leviathan belief and unbelief never follow men's commands but nevertheless education can have a significant effect particularly on The Young and can turn their belief in one way or the other if not directly then indirectly for this reason Hobs is very clear that the proper doctrines must be um to be diligently quote to

be diligently and truly taught because they cannot be maintained by any civil law or Terror of legal punishment you can't force somebody to believe something on the other hand if you get them young enough you teach them the right doctrines they will eventually come to believe them um in this way uh for this reason the Sovereign must preserve the right quote of appointing teachers and examining what doctrines are conformable or contrary to the defense peace and good of the people and this is especially true of the universities which as Hobbs remarks and this is in

Chapter 30 of the Leviathan have nurtured the seeds of revolution in times pass so it's very important for the Sovereign to keep can see somebody nodding their head yes um universities are can be very seditious so it's really important for the Sovereign to keep control over what it is that's taught um um but however one may be changed through education there's one way in which human nature I think remains a constant for Hobs he writes quote the miserable condition of war is necessarily consequent to the Natural passions of men when there is no visible power

to keep them in awe and tie them by fear of punishment to the performance of their Covenant and observation of those laws of nature reason and even education is not strong enough to keep the baser passions in check and however much we may want to live in peace with one another if there is no Force to coer us we won't and we won't necessarily slip back into a war of all against all um these natural Passions of men are not going to be altered by Society by education by anything so you take away the um

um um a threat of punishment the fear of punishment and we are back in the state in which we originally were um Hobbs argues that we're the state to dissolve and The Sovereign quote which is the soul of the Commonwealth be elimin ated I quote now chapter 42 of Leviathan The Commonwealth is dissolved into Civil War no one man so much as cohering to another for want of a common dependence on known on a own Sovereign just as the members of the Natural Body dissolve into Earth for want of a soul to hold them together

interesting here because of course Hobbs does not believe in a soul but nevertheless um um he he's he's um using this this very powerful image for what happens when the Sovereign U disappears uh this state of civil war is what he refers to as a state of War of all against all earlier of the Leviathan when introducing the state of nature Hobbs raises the question as to whether or not humans have ever actually been in the state of nature and this is famously in Chapter 13 uh of Leviathan which is a chapter about the state

of nature one of his answers there is that we are in such a state of nature whenever the Commonwealth collapses quote it may be perceived what manner of Life there would be were there no common power to fear by the manner of Life which men have formerly lived under a peaceful government to you use to degenerate into uh in a civil war why should this be so well for Hobbs I think human nature is ultimately grounded in the human body its makeup and the deterministic Order of nature that ultimately fixes our behavior um in so

far Society cannot change our bodily makeup it cannot change the passions and inclinations that our bodily makeup gives rise to um for Hobs life in a society does not fundamentally alter us human nature is a constant the same inside society and out remove the external constraints that the institutions of coercion provide to guarantee that people behave well toward one another and we're back in a state of War of all against all well the picture now I want to turn to um uh Spinosa the picture in Hobbs is I think relatively straightforward human nature is a

constant and in a fairly direct way underlies the whole of hobbs' politics but the case with Spinosa is rather more complicated um there's a thin sense of the notion of human nature in which one can say that human nature is an unchanging constant for Spinosa as much as it is for Hobs and I'm what I'm about to say is to say that human nature is really a very complicated um um very complicated notion when applied to Spinosa and maybe I'm wrong to um in fact even attribute a sense of human nature to to Spinosa but

he does um um talk about it from time to time um in its most basic sense human nature is just the tendency that we all have for self-preservation and for seeking our own Advantage um but this hardly counts as human nature um the canatas for self-preservation is something that we share with everything as Spinosa proves in the ethics um in tradus theological politicus TTP chapter 16 is where it is that he does attribute this sort of his human nature but in ethics part three proposition six is where he proves that this kadus for self-preservation belongs

to everything in nature um in a somewhat more restricted sense human nature for Spinosa is that which all human beings have in common and which differentiates us from animals say in this way he writes that the aects of animals quote differ from Men's aects as much as their nature differs from Human Nature this is ethics part 357 scolum um it's in this sense that he appeals to human nature in deriving his General theorems about such things as the aex human motivation memory he obviously for example in part parts three and four of the ethics thinks

that there's something human beings do have in common by virtue of which he can prove all of these common theorems um that pertain to human beings as such um because we all share a common human nature in this sense propositions Spinoza proves can be assumed to hold for all humans be the they rational or um uh governed by their passions um but there's another thicker sense of human nature at work in Spinosa and a famous though by no means unpr problematic passage in the preface to ethics 4 Spinosa writes for because we desire to form

an idea of man as a model of human nature which we may look to it will be useful to us to retain these same words with a meaning I have indicated and there he's talking about Good and Evil and what follows therefore I shall understand by good what we know certainly as a means by which we may approach nearer and nearer to the model of human nature that we set before ourselves by evil what we certainly know prevents us from becoming like that model uh next we shall say that men are more perfect or imperfect

in so far as they approach more or less near to this model this model of human nature okay so understood in this way U there's a sense of human nature which we don't possess but which we seek to possess um and this is obviously different from the sense of human nature that um he was talking about earlier in the ethics which is something that we all share by virtue of being human beings that differenti differentiates human beings from horses from oysters and so on um while there are debates in this in the in the literature

about what exactly that nature consists in it's plausible to identify that nature with what we would be like if we were to become completely rational to strive for that nature is to strive to become more and more rational this is this is an interpretation of what Spinosa is is um has in mind there but I think it's it's it's plausible because of this Spinosa will argue that to the extent that we are irrational and burdened with passive aects we all differ from one another um and thus he argues quote only in so far as men

live according to the guidance of Reason must they all always agree in nature so the more rational we are the more we share that nature and the more alike we are because we're all more coming closer and closer to instantiating this this nature of um U Being Human um this thicker sense of human nature is one which we can say human nature is variable and plastic Force Manos and can be altered by historical experience and by the Societies in which we we live Spinoza's account of the formation of the state owes an evident debt to

Hobbs in a number of presentations Spinosa like Hobbs emphasizes the need for a state to protect us from one another um and this is this is the version in um um chapter 2 of the tradus politicus but you can find it also in the trat theological politicus as well as in the ethics and so we conclude that the right of nature which is proper to the human race can hardly be conceived unless men have common laws and are able to defend for themselves lands they can inhabit and cultivate are able to provide themselves with protection

to fend off any force and to live according to the common opinion of all okay it's for this reason that Spinosa suggests that we must enter into a contract to Institute the Civil state in a solid and Lasting way bit more complicated than that the whole question of whether or not the formation of the state constitutes a real contract for Spinosa is something that he seems to be a little bit ambiguous about but at least in the earlier formulations he formulates it in in the same way that HMS does and in terms of a contract

um else where though he emphasizes not okay in some places like Hobbs he will emphasize the importance of protecting ourselves from one another by entering into this compact by forming a contract um um um to establish a sovereign but elsewhere he emphasizes not the mutual protection but the advantages of cooperation as the ground of civil society and this is from uh tatus theological politicus a social order is very useful and even most necessary not only for living securely from enemies but also for making many things efficiently for if men were not willing to give Mutual

assistance to one another they would lack both skill and time to support and preserve themselves as far as possible not all men are equally capable of all things nor would each one be able to provide those those things which alone he most needs everyone I say would lack both powers and time if he alone had a plow to sew to reap to grind to cook to weave to to sew and to do me the many other things necessary to support life not to mention now the Arts and Sciences which are also supremely necessary for the

Perfection of human nature and its blessedness um okay so we now have two reasons to protect ourselves from one another and for sort of the division of labor for enable to be a to enable us to live more commodiously um it's very very helpful to be able to share tasks um with other people but there is yet one more benefit of society for Spinosa uh quote the Perfection of human nature and its blessedness reason tells us that reason and understanding are the true Goods that we should be seeking in life quote what we strive for

from reason is nothing but understanding nor does the mind in so far as it uses reason judge anything else useful to itself except what leads to understanding or quote we know nothing to be certainly good or evil except what really leads to understanding or what can prevent us from understanding and of course for Spinosa understanding is coextensive with power with um activity um with a denial of passivity and this is one of the important reasons why we seek social organization by doing so we create an environment in which it's possible for us to have the

Leisure that we need to become more and more rational and to ensure that our social or order is stable we need to make others see what we see that social order confers on us all of these wonderful benefits and that it is in their interest as well to participate in society and to behave well toward other people um and so ethics uh part 4 proposition 37 reads quote the good which everyone who seeks virtue wants for himself he also desires for other men and this desire is greater as his knowledge of God is greater that

is to the extent to which he is more rational um and Spinoza's demonstration of this begins as follows in so far as men live according to the guidance of reason they are all most useful to men hence according to the guidance of reason we necessarily strive to bring it about that men live according to the guidance of Reason in so far as others are rational they're more useful to me because they recognize that I am more useful to them as well I mean there's to a certain extent behind it all there is the urge for

self-preservation but the more rational we are we realize that other people are helpful in our self-preservation and we want them to have that realization as well so that they will um cultivate the relations um um uh with other people that will make for the stable Society from which everybody especially me can benefit um and in this way the well functioning state in the well functioning State a little rationality in the beginning will beg get more and more rationality as time goes by as the citizens increase increasingly realize that it's to everybody's advantage to cooperate with

one another and to help one another become more and more rational that's to say in a well-functioning state we should all grow closer and closer to the ideal of human nature that Spinosa thinks we set for ourselves this idea of perfect rationality this perfect nature that we all strive um um um uh to instantiate now even in the best of circumstances not everybody is capable of becoming sufficiently rational to appreciate that they should behave well toward what another simply on the basis of reason but here's where religion enters Spinosa argues that the central teaching of

Revelation is not knowledge strictly speaking not something to believe but is a command I quote from scripture itself we have perceived its General tendency without any difficulty or ambiguity to love God above all else and to love your neighbor as yourself it's important here this is these are not beliefs these are commands to love your neighbor to love God um and in so far as the central teaching of revealed religion is a command the central teaching of the scriptures must be seen as obedience to this command um in the title to chapter 13 of the

drus theological politicus for example Spinosa notes that quote the scriptures that that the scriptures quote uh the scripture does not aim at anything but obedience the love of God is obviously important for Spinosa but from the point of view of the stability of society it's the command to love your neighbor as yourself that's really Central for those who cannot attain this through reason religion can bring them to much the same state in a state in which they're prepared to behave in ways that promote one another's well-being um there's no single way in which this happens

Spinosa argues because of their different historical experiences people who are different respond to the different sets of beliefs and practice that constitute popular religion quote men vary greatly in their temperament um because one is satisfied with these opinions another with those and because what moves one person to religion moves another to laughter uh some people some people you know are Jewish some people are Catholics some people are Buddhist you know and everybody everybody um takes a different um point of view on this um but um Spinosa thinks that each person must be quote must be

allowed freedom of judgment and the power to interpret the foundations of the faith according to his own temperament that the piot of each person's Faith must be judged from works alone but the end toward which each well each religion of which Spinosa approves there he does reject of course Superstition well a Superstition defined as a religion that doesn't lead him to love of neighbor and love of God uh but each appropriate religion leads to the same kind of social Consciousness that promotes the stability of society right a good religion is one that by its beliefs

and practices will lead people to love one another as they love themselves um in this way Society does have an effect on us in the thick sense of the term human nature is altered by participating in society and in its institutions both through reason and through the practice of religion in this way Civil Society has a kind of historical dimension for sposa peoples change and grow by virtue of their continued Association with one another in both civil and religious institutions were different people by virtue of participating in society our nature evolves in this way and

this is reflected in a number of ways in spino's politics a very prominent feature of Spinosa politics is the fact that different historical circumstances require different kinds of government while in a general sense Spinosa unlike h favors democracy as the best form of government Hobs um Hobs um um um um favors having a single Monarch um he also Spinosa recognizes that different forms of government are appropriate under different circumstances for example Spinosa argues that a people used to other forms of government should not Institute a monarchy quote for the people will not be able to

Bear the weight of such great control and the Royal Authority will not be able to endure the laws and rights of the people established by someone else similarly quote it is also no less dangerous to move to remove a monarch from your midst even if it is established in every way that he's a tyrant for people accustomed to Royal Authority and held in check only by that Authority will disdain a lesser Authority and consider it an object of derision similarly Spinosa emphasizes that the historical experiences of the Hebrews shape the way in which Moses chose

to govern them uh he writes and this is this is um in the talk tus theological politicus when the Hebrews first left Egypt they were no longer bound by the legislation of any other Nation so they were permitted as they wished to enact new laws nevertheless they were quite incapable of ordaining legislation widely wisely and retaining the sovereignty in their own hands as a body almost all of them were crude of temperament in gum and weakened by wretched bondage therefore the sovereignty had to remain in the hands of one person only who would command the

others and compel them by force and who would prescribe the laws and afterwards interpret them and that one person was of course Moses Moses was forced to adopt this way of governing because of the particular ular circumstances in which he found the the Hebrews at that moment quot Moses does not teach the Jews as a teacher or Prophet that they should not kill or steal but commands these things as a lawgiver and Prince for he does not prove those teachings by reason but adds a penalty to the commands which can and must vary according to

the temperament of each Nation as experience has sufficiently taught um at a later St age in the history of the Hebrews um things might be quite different had the experience of the Hebrews made them more capable of rational argument than Moses could have taught them through reason rather than given giving them the laws to which they were made obedient through a threat of punishment the particular way of governing quote can and must vary according to the temperament of each Nation the appropriate way of governing is a matter of the historical circumstance as they change so

does the appropriate form of government at the one extreme that of the Hebrews coming out of bondage they are not capable of reason they need to be governed they need to be told what to do um and they need to be motivated to behave well by a fear of punishment um this is Spinoza's interpretation of the ceremonies in the Hebrew Bible a part of his argument in the tatus theological politicus is that God does not prescribe um uh ceremonies ceremonies are in a way part of political organization quote this then was the object of Ceremonies

that men should do nothing by their own decision but everything according to the command of someone else and that they should confess both by constantly repeated actions and by med meditations that they were not their own master in anything but were completely subjected to someone else from this from all this it is established more clearly than by daylight that ceremonies contribute nothing to blessedness and that those of the Old Testament indeed the whole law of uh Moses was concerned with nothing but the Hebrew State um given the particular historical circumstances the Hebrews quote accustomed as

they were to slavery um needed to be told what to eat how to dress how to shave how to do everything um this in part is is argument um um uh why it is that the Bible should not be used as a model for political organization um what the Bible says about how it is that Moses for example governed um um the Hebrews is about the Hebrews it's not about us today or how it is that we should organize ourselves but it's about them in their particular historical um uh circumstances uh the laws in question

are not meant to be Universal rules uh that govern all peoples everywhere they're uh they are quote concerned with nothing but the Hebrew State appropriate to a particular group of people at a particular historical Moment The Other Extreme are those who obtained rationality they are in a completely different position the more rational we are the more we appreciate the value of living together in a civil State and the more we recognize that it increases our power and freedom to do that which is necessary to support the Civil State Spinosa writes and this is one of

the notes later one of the last notes that he wrote to the um tatus theological politicus no matter what state a man is in he can be free for certainly a man is free in so far as he is led by reason but reason urges peace in all circumstances moreover peace cannot be obtained unless the common rights of the state are maintained without infringement therefore the more a man is led by reason that is the more he is free the more will he steadfastly maintain the rights of the state and carry out the commands of

the supreme power of which he is a subject and so Spinosa argues quote a man who is Guided by reason Desires in order to live more freely to keep the common laws of the state for Spinosa then the more rational a person is the less external constraint is needed to induce him or her to behave well toward others in society this suggests a form of government very different from the one that Moses fashioned for the ancient Hebrews um people governed and so so that at the limit in a certain sense Mo U Spinosa is often

presented as sort of the philosopher of democracy uh one of the first um of the moderns to actually Advocate democracy in a certain sense he can also be regarded as the philosopher of Anarchy because um um the more rational we become the next the the less will we need externally constraints so at the limit when we're all perfectly rational impossible Spinosa realizes but at that limit there will be no need for government whatsoever we will all simply by virtue of our reason behave well toward one another um people governed by by obedience to religion constitute

a kind of intermediate case for Spinosa now the practice of religion leads people to behave well toward one another not through reason but as I argued earlier through obedience to the command that one should love one's neighbor as oneself this obedience is sustained not directly through a threat of punishment or reward by secular agents but through faith and this is how uh sposa defines faith in the talk as theological politicus uh faith is quote thinking of such things things about God that if the person disregards them obedience to God is dist destroyed such that if

obedience to God is posited they are necessarily posited um in this way Spinosa suggests faith is a state of belief that leads one to be obedient to the commands that he takes to be constitutive of religion including the command to love your neighbor command that underlies the stability of the state um in the trus theological politic espanosa proposes a set of seven what he calls dogmas of Universal Faith whose belief would lead one to such obedience um so these are things such that if you believe them you will be obedient um for example to the

command to love your neighbor as yourself and if you're obedient then that must mean that you actually have these beliefs and these are this is the summary that God exists that he provides for e e e e e e e I rational then the coercive institutions of the state would wither away and people would continue to behave in accordance with the laws and in this way one might say that Spinoza's theory terminates in Anarchy as I was saying before however Espinosa fully realizes this is an Impossible Dream literally impossible because as finite preachers we can

never attain complete rationality and this is what he proves in ethics part 4 proposition for in essence immediately after the passage that I just quoted Spinosa goes on to observe that quote human nature now in the thin sense presumably is constituted very differently than that and consequently quote no Society can subsist without Authority and force even so lacking the constraints of a civil society we could still expect more rational people to behave well toward one another the more rational they are the less we would expect them to descend into a war of all against all

situation is similar for those who practice religion they behave well by virtue of obedience not to a human Sovereign but to God or at least to the god that they believe exists and who rewards and punishes them for their behavior Osa won't tell them that he doesn't exist but as long as they believe that he does exist they will continue to behave well toward one another when the state no longer exists the motivations for obedience to the command to love your nature are still at work either reason or religion for Hobbs when the state dissolves

we return straight away to a war of all against all um but I think not so for Spinosa this last statement may be a little strong perhaps better not necessarily so for Spinosa Spinosa was a realist about human beings and could certainly recognize circumstances in which the removal of the coercive institutions of the state would lead to disaster that's to say to Civil War but even so the person who has become more rational will remain more rational even after the coercion is removed um and will continue to seek cooperation with his neighbors to the extent

possible and it's the same for the person who's led to obedience through religion and Faith such a person though very imperfectly rational will continue to obey God and love his neighbor for Spinosa unlike for Hobbs our nature can change through socialization we're not the same people that we were uh before enter ing Society might be objected here that for Hobbs as well as for Spinosa we have a rational side that leads us to seek peace in community and that the rational side is found even when there's no State capable of coercing us it's because of

this rational side that we recognize the advantages of entering into society and cooperating with others uh but it's also because we recognize the Dark Side of human nature that we recognize the importance of establishing the institutions necessary to maintain social cooperation through education and should that fail through coercion however for Hobs the balance between Darkness and Light the disruptive emotions and the rationality that leads us toward cooperation Remains the Same in the state of nature before we enter into civil society and after we enter the Commonwealth um and we should and should the Covenant be

broken um that same balance of Darkness and Light Now unchecked by external control uh will lead us back into a state of war against all of all against all however with Spinosa the experience of being in society can actually change the balance make us more rational make us more obedient in a certain sense by taking the constraint and putting it either in reason or in a belief in God as opposed to The Sovereign The Sovereign goes away when um um the state dissolves but reason or God don't go away the state um um dissolves why

is that so for Spinosa and not for Hobs why is it that there's this underlying difference well let me develop here an idea that was actually suggested to me first byak malamed uh drawing on some ideas that ODed sheer is developing although when I talked to ODed sheer about this he denied it but still I'll give him credit and certainly certainly um isak mamed who gave me some of these ideas um um one of the key ideas in Spinoza's thought is that as we become more and more rational we lose our fear of death and

this is ethics part four proposition 67 a free man thinks of nothing less than of death and his wisdom is a meditation on life not on death now the free man here is the perfectly rational man um the person all of whose aects are active and none of whose aects are passive now Spinosa argues um it's impossible for any finite thing to be completely free in this sense and thus it's impossible for any finite thing to set death aside altogether but one might argue and I think Spinosa does to the extent that we are rational

that is when we're Guided by when we are Guided by reason we are not Guided by the fear of death or the fear of anything else but by a recognition that it is to our advantage to love our neighbor and to enter into a Cooperative relation with him or her but in so far as one remains rational even without Society one remains less afraid of death and the more rational we are the less afraid we are of death but I think not so for Hobbs education can change us in many ways to be sure can

make us better citizens more Cooperative more malleable by The Sovereign but however it changes us the fear of death is built in the fear of death is as it were hardwired in us and not possible to eliminate for spin for Hobs and I think the fear of death is for Hobs one of the fundamental features of human nature and one of the fundamental motivations for uh human behavior um this fear is present when we're in Society uh and is at least in part why we persist in obeying the Sovereign and keeping our place and when

Society crumbles it is why we revert to the state of nature or to the or to the war of all against all for Hobs our biology is in this way our destiny for Spinosa our history marks us perhaps in in a more permanent way thank you for your attention