Tim Ferriss and Kevin Rose: The Random Show! | SXSW 2024

[Applause] good afternoon everybody hello hello thanks for being here hi Kevin Tim Tim we're doing it Kev Kev we're doing it is this our first ever live I think so I think we've always just been at your apartment or house drinking tequila it's usually how it goes it's a very formal Affair so thanks for being everybody yeah and Cheers Cheers this with our water with our uh quote unquote water it's good to see everyone thank you for coming out this is awesome we we have we have a lot to talk about and a lot to

celebrate because Mr Tim Ferris has hit 1 billion downloads of his podcast yeah so you are the first to hear this it actually happened mid last year and I was waiting for the right time to talk about it and so figured why not talk about it today so hell of a milestone who would have thought I mean so many Bots at our so many Bots and after our first episode where I asked you if you had to be a breakfast cereal what you would choose and why and then you busted my balls relentlessly and that

continues yes so some things stay the same and 10th anniversary is coming up yeah 10 years how long are you going to keep doing this I'll keep doing it as long as it's fun I still enjoy doing it I'll probably tighten things a little bit in the sense that return to some Basics uh really try to be aware of not automatically following the majority in terms of Trends or new platforms I think that's a dangerous seduction can be helpful but you want to be thoughtful about it so I'll probably back off of video in a

lot of ways as one example and especially personally will back off of short form video not because there's anything inherently bad about it but that's just not my game so I like to choose games where there's some V diagram overlap of energy in for me recharging and also capability so a good question that I like to ask friends I like to ask myself is you know what is easier for you than other people whatever that is and typically you'll have an advantage there you either have some particular skill or you have some particular type of

endurance that will give you a competitive Advantage not that you have to compete it's not Zero Sum but holy [ __ ] is podcast crowded it is really really crowded and there's some very very very talented interviewers out there so it's become a much more saturated red ocean of swords and the practice for me as I pause at 10 years will be to think about how I can create more blue oceans for myself which I find more exciting but if it's 15 years 20 years I'm going to be having these conversations no matter what yeah

the question is do I record them and then put them on a podcast I don't know but I'll continue to have these conversations so my feeling is why not just record them it's not a heavy lift when you when you think back over say those last 10 years like there has to be in not in a slamming way but there has to be some really challenging interviews that you've had in terms of just like someone was just so sharp you couldn't keep up or just like oh God I was really hoping this would go better

like any any fun stories you don't maybe not that this would go better but like who was just like so sharp they just absolutely blew you away oh there's so many I mean there are a lot I mean Martin rothblat comes to mind as one who is just incredibly incredibly sharp there are many others I can tell you one where I was the most intimidated and it showed up in the recording which was with Ed katl of Pixar at the time who was the first person I interviewed who I had not had any previous contact

with and we got on had no established Rapport of course very nice guy very sharp and I was so nervous I'll Flash Forward and give you the punchline on Twitter and other places I saw feedback dozens of tweets that said something like great podcast but like mmm do dot do mmm and I was like what the [ __ ] and I went back and I listened to it and every time Ed said anything I was like [Music] M super Japanese I can say that I used to live there and I was just like wow I

am like compulsively nervously indulging myself with this tick and these days we would fix something like that but at the time I was like oh still work to do who is the biggest I have to say I think I can probably guess this but in terms of like Fanboy I mean obviously Arnold now you're best friends with we see you pictures you're skiing you guys play chess you do all the [ __ ] together uh Arnold must have been a huge one for you huge huge but Hugh Jackman must have been also huge yeah huge

Jackman he's a large man and everything you would hope him to be as a side note I would say there were there were a few inflection points in terms of guest because at the time celebrities on podcast was pretty uncommon and a-listers on podcasts quite uncommon I would say Arnold was certainly won that first conversation for me Tony Robbins was also another that was a big one uh and a lot of these folks did their first podcasts on the Tim far show which was also really fun for me Jamie Fox took a year and a

half two years to get booked and that just blew my mind he is the ultimate performer on every level jamy Fox and Hugh Jackman I would say certainly standouts in terms of decathletes of entertainment they can do everything it's it's incredible so I'd say those those Stand Out certainly as a couple of inflection points and it's just been experiment after experiment and it's very personally driven and that is to keep my interest high and it's also to try to counteract any impulse to chase Google Trends and whatever might be in the news cycle right so

for instance there was a year where my first interview with bology went parabolic and completely insane in terms of downloads I mean Millions upon Millions upon millions of downloads and there was is this one where he got a lot of predict predictions right he did yeah he got a lot of predictions right and it was also sort of peak hype cycle with crypto and we can talk about that later I'm sure there are a lot of orange eyes in the audience who are piercing me with their lasers at the moment we can talk about it

talk bunch I I'm still involved I'm still doing lots of stuff related to that we'll come back going sorry too soon too soon too soon so uh I I would say that in that particular we had an internal conversation and I think that you have to be very careful about your audience shaping you you can become a caricature of your most extreme views or behaviors and if you allow that to drive your behavior you can become the mask that you wear and I've seen that we've both seen that with folks who have their most extreme

views and headlines reinforced on say YouTube YouTube uh and then they suddenly replicate that and emphasize it and they become that person they become the actor on the stage so you have to be careful about that and the impulse was to do more crypto more crypto more crypto I said no we're not going to do that actually we're going to do zero crypto for a while just to make it clear that our priorities for the show are a little bit different uh so I I continue to be thrilled by the conversations had a lot of

fun and I'll keep doing it as long as it's interesting awesome because if it's not interesting for me it's not that's going to be clear to the people who listen do you know what I mean 100% yeah we got a lot to talk about we have a lot to talk about and we have we have much more limited time than we would normally have 47 minutes left so let's let's jump into it you want to start you want me to start you to start all right so um we've come up classic random show style with

a handful of things to just BS about um one of the speaking of crypto I mean it's having a moment again it is obviously very cyclical type environment like we're back up things are going crazy um I did something wild and and we always do this weird thing where we say not weird but important thing where we say not investment advice um very important I took you know over the years when you leave various jobs you tend to have like a little 401K sitting over here or if you've done a Roth IRA or something like

that the nice thing about the fact that we actually have ETFs now is that you can put actual crypto and you buy these actual ETFs that are crypto I mean we all saw that that got approved and so what I decided to do was take all of those retirement accounts and there's like three or four of them and just convert them all to bitcoin ETFs and this sounds crazy and I'm not saying that this is for everyone because certainly I believe it's not for everyone um but the the nice thing about it is that at

retirement you get all those gains taxfree and the the thing that people don't know if there are gains if there are gains yes that's right if there are gains but the thing that people don't know is that there are there are so many competitive ETFs that are out there right you got black rock you got Fidelity uh Franklin Templeton you've got probably another dozen or so and they all charge management fees but if you take a look behind the scenes and actually peel back who is providing the servic is underneath these you know dis tickers

it's largely coinbase Fidelity is the only one I think that does their own custody of actual crypto there might be one or two others but almost everyone is coinbase on the back end okay so really at the end of the day what you want is the lowest fee and so Franklin Templeton has the lowest expense ratio of all of these and so I just moved everything into Franklin templeton's uh ETF and just keep it that way and then at retirement 59 and a half you get to start taking dispersements of that and if there are

gains you get them taxfree so it's kind of a fun little hack to do um you know just if you want to see that upside over you know the next couple of decades if there is upside and and take it out taxfree which is um you know I typically would never obviously if you're just going to go buy and hold Bitcoin why pay the fees right there's there's tons of exchanges you can go and and and pay less you don't have to pay an annual fee like you would with an ETF but if you're going

to do it in a taxfree account like that makes a lot of sense yeah so that's my one little fun little thing I did the last couple of weeks I've had a lot of fun little things the last couple weeks but that was that was what would take what what would be second place from the roster uh well we sold proof so with my my nft adventure over the last few years uh went to Yuga Labs which I'm I'm happy found a home at a place that is actually building you know what I consider to

be a very high quality game with a micro economy and something that has some real legs to it that hopefully you know will turn into something that is that is durable and that is large I mean they want to build the quote I heard was kind of roadblocks for adults which is like you know an infrastructure where you can go and build and create worlds inside of a 3D environment that has you know um its own built-in currency and economy um powered by you know nfts and actual assets asss inside of that world so you

know I realized finally it I came to the stage where after being a couple years in I know I'm not the hardcore DJ I'm not going to be getting there on stage trying to like tell people things up and up and up yeah well I mean don't give me [ __ ] we can go talk about cockp punch if you want now let's go there next um but it it's it's hard it's it's hard we talked about this at length you know a podcast ago one last time we did the random show but you know

I want to find a at home so it was no easy feat to go and and and work and and try and find you know someone like Yuga who if anyone's going to make it like good Lord I hope you know they do so uh that's been that's been a nice kind of like transition and and and new move so personal question related to this my experience as someone with front row seats to your entrepreneurial journey is every time you have an exit or finish a company you say I'm never doing a company again never

doing one again never again and then 6 months later you start another company so if you were me what odds would you give Kevin Rose to sticking to that 99% I'm not going to start another company no I'm telling you well here's the thing I realize like this this is the true story like and people that have follow this the stuff and and I I want don't hurt me don't hurt me no more more don't hurt me don't hurt me more more listen you want to start going down some he brought in Tequila behind the

scenes you're not supposed to oh [ __ ] um so it's all my fault a little bit such an enabler so there we go we might get kicked off stage now um I had I had to come back with something that's all I got all so so I here's the deal like the one thing I did realize with this startup two things is that anytime you tie finances um to a startup like meaning like people's Financial well-being it is a whole another level of emotion that you get from people that are you know participating in

what you do and um that's that's the most challenging startup I've ever faced and then the second thing I realized is that like I love that early stage ideation like you know coming up with the idea for zero fasting early on before it was a thing and uh or dig in the early days I don't like the scaling aspect I appreciate the one woo out there somebody somebody remembers dig um I but I don't appreciate the scaling I'm just not good at it it's not in my DNA to be able to um manage the the

the you know call it when you're just getting started it's the 10 things you need to do and then you get to five 10 people 15 people 20 people and all of a sudden there's emotions involved and not everyone's up to speed and you know there's there's a lot of more of the just logistical management of of of of humans yeah which is which is quite challenging for me personally I I like the idea side of things so yeah I'm I'm done I mean I'd much rather focus on things like content creation and and hopefully

finding and seeing around corners early enough with the podcast where we can expose people to the next big thing and they they decide whether they want to get involved or not not me creating that next big thing yeah and for people who've been paying attention for a long time Kevin has given previews of the future many many times on the random show on this podcast so I I do think your superpower one of your superpowers is either super early stage or actually Public Market at Super mature but not in between not so much in between

uh so I want to switch gears a little bit and mention something that I'm incredibly excited about which is the most impressive let's call it mental health intervention that I have encountered in the last 10 years so as some of you may know I've been very involved with supporting a lot of research basic science and so on related to psychedelic compounds and psychedelic assisted therapies that has been because I believe they can really change the lenses through which we look at Psychiatry mental health and so-called mental disorders completely uh due to some of the effect

sizes and durability of say effects on complex PTSD treatment resistant depression and so on but I'm actually tool agnostic just like with startup investing I'm looking for uncrowded Bets with super high leverage potential outcomes I'm quite agnostic about the tools and I will say and you and I have talked about this privately a little bit but in the last let's call it year especially the last six months I've done a very deep dive on a new iteration of an older technology which is TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation so this is a type of brain stimulation the

technology has existed for a number of decades but the protocols and the neurot targeting has advanced really quickly there was there was full subreddits where you could go and learn how to do it yourself at home don't DIY this do not people were literally having burns on their skin doing it yeah this is Darwin Awards territory don't do this guys uh in part because you can make things a lot worse if you don't do it the right way but to to jump to the punch line I have gone through two rounds of something called accelerated

TMS you can learn a lot about this by looking at a number of scientists including Nolan Nolan Williams out of Stanford I an interview with Nolan on the podcast for people who want to do a deep dive and they developed what was previously known it's gone through sumary branding the saint protocol uh which is a very condensed protocol for administering TMS so you have these magnets they elicit in this case Theta bursts and typically you might have TMS treatments over the span of many weeks many months they're compressing 50 sessions into 10 days or actually

50 sessions into 5 days excuse me pause for one second though for people that don't know what does this look like for you you said you said magnets I'm I'm thinking like you know I don't know what I'm thinking but like what are you what are you actually doing are you hooking [ __ ] up to your head are you in a lab are you doing it at home you're not doing at home you're hooking so you are in a clinic or lab and there are different iterations of this so my first round was with

a uh company called brain Sway and they use a particular H7 coil they're developing new technologies that's effectively a helmet that you then attach to your head with a chin strap and based on specific targeting depending on the condition you're trying to address which could be depression treatment resistant depression could be generalized anxiety disorder could be OCD any number of right Ed sure everybody's got their thing if there's magnetic Viagra then there's a whole new business I need to invest in so yeah sure and and then the second round was with uh Magnus Ventures and

a different slightly different technology but it effectively looks like a paddle that is placed on the head and they use computer vision and and pretty sophisticated targeting but the upshot of this is going into it no one will be surprised I remember when I had my first diagnos IC interview with one of these psychiatrists and we went through this long multi-hour process and they said you know you score X Y and Z and it seems like you have moderate to severe OCD and they're like this might take a little while I know this is heavy

news like if we need to take a break and I was like are you kidding me like this is no one this is a surprise to no one like let's let's move on uh so I went in with pretty high assessment scores for just to simplify the whole whole thing OCD which looking at my family you'd be like yeah obviously and then anxiety and a lot of long-term listeners will know bouts of uh depression and that also is is pretty much kind of genetically hardwired did these two sessions and with three months so far of

durability no longer meet any diagnostic criteria for any of those wow it has been the most durable noticeable on a day-to-day week- toe basis change in my state that I have ever experienced can you give me or if you care to share can you give me something like let's just say on the OCD side where you were doing it previously you had the treatments and now it's yeah I give examples and I should say your mileage will vary and the sample sizes are still very very small for Accelerated TMS which is I'm an early stage

guy too right like I like to get involved but there are many unknown many open questions they're still in I want to say sub you know thousands in terms of subjects in some cases for say OCD it's probably fewer than 200 would be my guess I'm I'm making up some of these numbers but I don't think they're very far off so there's still a lot to figure out but as an example I've had lifelong onset insomnia where my brain will just not quiet down you know my mind is like I've been waiting all day to

talk to you you know and and it can take me an hour or two hours to fall asleep in 3 months that's effectively gone to zero none of that that's crazy the best sleep I've had in a in decades do you look at Aura data as well to see like am I getting the proper deep sleep am I getting you know I haven't gone super granular I recognize the how that could be helpful in a sense but I really feel like we can Outsource our awareness to devices and metrics where it's it's pretty well you

know when you wake up if the effect size is large enough it should be pretty obvious uh and uh I will say just there are some people who respond inversely to this right it can worsen some people's conditions uh I've seen a number of lives transform Med we have the most data for depression by far and if you talk to really competent sophisticated psychiatrists who have looked keep a breast of the latest technology they will say finally TMS is delivering on what we hoped it would deliver like the promise is finally finally we're seeing some

of the results we're hoping to see so there's been so many devices even at home devices that claim to do you know TMS that you can you can literally I've seen them on Amazon when but but here's Here's the the real question is like okay obviously you did all the proper due diligence around figuring out who's the best the best in this business that's actually doing the real science how soon until that actually propagates out to clinics where you would feel comfortable saying okay Now's the Time when the average person can go and do this

yeah it it's hard to say I I will say on a widely distributed basis but that's also like uber black got all this criticism early on and then those people subsidized the development of ruber X and over time cost went down and that's how what the price well the I would say it ranges at this point because insurance will not cover accelerated TMS at least as far as I'm aware from let's call it if we're looking at competent well-trained outfits who are vetted 5 to 15K for that 5day period but here's the thing depending on

your conditions depending on your resources if you were to ask me how much would you pay to go back 20 years and have this treatment I'd be like take half my net worth it's fine like the the payoff is the payoff is so noticeable now it's not a silver bullet nor are psychedelic assisted therapies by the way it's not one shot one kill with conditions so most people will go back for boosters every 3 to six months for say a single day of treatment not necessarily 5 days but the when I say effect size people

can look this up but the magnitude of change and durability is so far beyond pretty much any conventional treatment that I can think of especially if you exclude maintenance therapies that are really just covering symptoms or suppressing symptoms I'm very very excited about this in terms of time I I couldn't tell I think that it will be more widely available at retail where people pay out of pocket in the next 6 months to 12 months how will someone know if that has been the same thing that you're doing is there like a is there some

type of like certification or what what do you look for CU I've seen these types of clinics I've seen it being offered in various places yeah I would look for people who have real clinical experience who are working with established hos hospitals and have some bonafide there's a lot of Fly by Night TMS operations just like there are lots of Renta shaman on like Craigslist in Facebook who did some weekend yoga course in Costa Rica and suddenly they're going to save your soul probably not a great idea uh similarly if it's like yeah we run

a you know dentist's office and we offer TMS like maybe you don't do that or like the people are like yeah we will fix your nails and give you semaglutide like you mix in the bathroom like maybe you don't do that so I think you know Common Sense applies but uh it has been really fascinating and the reason you don't want to DIY it or one of the many many reasons you don't want to DIY it is that you're dealing with very sensitive circuitry right this whole thing in our heads as far as I know

is powered on roughly the electricity of a light bulb we really don't know how it works how we are able to function at such a high level I suspect there are all sorts of and this is true for all faction like Quantum effects and many many complicated mechanisms that we just do not understand and when you're applying a magnetic pulse to your brain H you C you are and this is simplified but you're either activating or deactivating right enhancing or suppressing some degree of activity or a network of activity and if you screw that up

uh you can get the opposite of what you're looking for so is there any real time like feeling like when you're sitting there are you like feels feels like someone flipping like flicking the side of your head there are no visuals or anything uh but you feel like someone's flicking the side of your head and each day you feel like you ran a mental ultramarathon like if you were cramming for the lsats every day for 15 hours straight that is the degree of mental exhaustion it's very tiring do you find that it's improved your cognitive

tasks like are you like able to like is there any performance enhancing benefits to this as well well do think TMS is going to be used for performance enhancement I think it could be used for sports enhancement and many things so I I do think especially in the world of anti-doping and so on that athletes are going to start to use TMs pre-competition for enhancing who knows visual Acuity reaction speed that's going to happen for sure because you can already use TMs to change trait hypnotizability like if you want to make people more susceptible to

being hypnotized you can use this uh it's going to get super wild really quickly I will say that one thing I have noticed on the Plus or negative side depending on how you look at it is that I've been so much less productive in the last few months you seem really chill right now yeah super chill uh here's what I would say I wouldn't trade the productivity for my current sense of calmness and I was chatting with therapists about this and they said well I think for a lot of people that anxiety is used as

of fuel to work to basically run away from things not run towards things and I was like yeah I could see that that doesn't seem shocking to me so you know question I've tried to ask myself with a lot of different projects is am I am I running away from something or am I running toward something that seems a very important distinction to make uh and also another reason not to DIY this is in a lot of cases you're let's just say in the case of xiety so you have too much fight uh like fight

or flight or freeze let's just say so you want to dampen that a little bit so you can move around without being a head case okay great you still need some of that fight ORF flight in your life so you can over dampen that or maybe you want to increase your parasympathetic response uh this is going to be very personal I didn't really think I would talk about this publicly but so there's there's a shorthand in medical school they say point and shoot in other words parasympathetic to get an Direction sympathetic to orgasm both of

those are really important so after I got my sympathetic smashed I couldn't orgasm for like two weeks and I was freaking the [ __ ] out I was like did I just completely screw up my hardwiring like I'm never going to orgasm again that seems like a high tax to pay uh [ __ ] you know was the was the was the engine there scary scary moment like you you didn't have a problem with the the the thing the point no no okay it was just the finish the shoot that was the problem yeah Jesus

man so like that could freak you out or let's say like this is classic Tim Ferris like early like trying the craziest [ __ ] you know I'm taking the bullet so other people don't necessarily have to but these are all reasons why you don't want to buy a kit on Amazon and just start zapping your brand while you're watching Netflix yeah all right unless you're fast and you need to slow down I yeah you know if somebody else wants to run that N1 like knock yourself but I'm not going to do that yeah all

right anyway moving on all right that's so last question and then we we can move on uh is there a website or anything where where you went like where did you go if someone's listening to this and they're like I want to go where Tim went yeah I I mean this is where I would like to have and this is not for any reason other than I'm going to I'm going to defer on that just because I want to have some more experience also I want to do a follow up I want to see what

the durability looks like before I start recommending outfits U so I will do that I'll have more to say about this but for people who want to do a deep dive Dr Nolan Williams and the podcast that I did with him touches a lot of this I will also say just a quick note which is there are some theories around say depression which are not chemically focused so instead of like oh serotonin imbalance this imbalance which is a little Antiquated in a bunch of senses it's not that it isn't a nonvariable but it doesn't seem

to be the primary determinant it could be that different structures in the brain are firing out of sequence and you can use the TMS to correct that sequence so instead of firing like BAC it's like oh well let's slightly tweak that system so it's firing in what we see in normal healthies which is ABC pretty interesting yeah to be able to basically just reset the the trip wire sequence yeah so something I think we'll be hearing a lot more about in the next handful of years and it is better tolerated than most medications like from

a risk profile perspective for most people in very rare cases it can trigger seizures like there are adverse side effect uh potentials but for the vast majority very well tolerated yeah so I'm I'm excited about it because for instance psychedelic assisted therapy is contraindicated for lots of people they're many people who should not take this uh or engage in in that type of therapy too many risks involved people would say Borderline Personality Disorder with family history of schizophrenia Etc but they wouldn't necessarily be automatically excluded from doing something like accelerated TMS yeah so that's exciting

to me all right we've got 22 minutes left you got they're cutting us off um so one of the things that dawned on me at at South by Southwest and I'm curious to get a we'll do a PLL at some point here but one of the things that's really challenging um at least for me personally is like when we go to these events or you go to events and Gathering social Gatherings uh I'm okay on stage and I'm okay interviewing folks but I actually don't like social events like there I get a little anxiety around

them yeah and it's largely because it's like a l God you had the tequila beforehand exactly the social lubricant does help but it's largely because it's a lot of kind of like small talk you know like what do you do for a living like this and that right totally I had this fantastic guest um Charles doig recently on the podcast just a couple days ago great author um yeah fantastic called super connectors um how many people like have a hard time at at events like ra raise of hands just had a curiosity a lot of

people it's it's it's a challenging thing and so like those ice breakers and all that [ __ ] like I I just don't I don't know what to say and this this author was fantastic so super connectors is the book that I I just I'm in the process of reading right now and it's really about a couple of things like one how can you get to a deep conversation quickly and then how to build trust with the person you're having a conversation with and that can be used for relationships like First Dates it can be

used for eventually you know working business Partnerships like how is trust actually formed in terms of social interactions and a lot of it comes down to the question questions that you ask and actually the follow-up questions that you ask and then the reciting of what the person said to make it that them know that you actually heard what they were saying and so it's just a fascinating fun topic and I was just curious like is that is that something that like you've ever had issues with or have you ever studied like you know how to

create these like lasting long bonded kind of like connections with other humans yeah I think about it all the time you really oh yeah for sure I I and I'm so I can pretend to be the extrovert and play the extrovert on stage like this where I'm safely at a distance talking to one person in front of a lot of people but I am very introverted you've seen this where it's like if I'm at a big group dinner I'll take 20 bathroom breaks it's not because my prostate is old it's because I need to do

Lamas breathing in the bathroom be like okay I'm okay you know smile and I can get back out there uh so I've thought about this a lot because but what I have found also is that if you if you study this type of thing it makes you more comfortable and less overwhelmed in these circumstances so it is not only helping the person or making the person across from you feel more comfortable in my case helps me feel a lot more comfortable so what have you learned from this book are there any particular yeah I mean

there's a couple things one questions followup questions yeah one is a breakfast cereal what would you be not not not that a question but that was a good first pod podcast question the the one thing that you do is you write down like five things that you could talk about when you're at this event um or questions that you might want to ask and there was this research study that was done that people that wrote down these questions and they put them in their pocket they never Ed the questions but it put them at ease

knowing that they had the backups in their pocket and then it led to more natural conversation and then the second thing is just really going in and being naturally curious about the person and asking like if you were saying hey I just tried this new new uh you know brain stimulation technique it'd be like oh that that sounds really fun like that's a dead end dead end to that right you you would say you would say like well I I've read a little bit about this but like can you tell me more about how it's

actually helped you and like you know you like what you just did yes exactly I was I was actually ninjaing on yeah I feel very at ease with you yeah exactly um but I'm not going to go anywhere go there but um but it is it is a one thing where there's like these little tactics but the interesting thing is you're not faking it cuz I I the first thing I asked him I like well that feels like you're kind of Faking it you're just kind of like oh I've got these tactics and I'm going

to go use these T and he goes no once you start using these you build a muscle and you be you get comfort and then it naturally just happens to where you can walk into a social setting and you'll have that muscle and the comfort is there the anxiety is gone and it is it turns it flips it from something that is like should I go to this event or not to like I can actually Thrive at this event cuz for me you walk out of an event and I'm like oh my God I just

ran a marathon you know like you feel emotionally drained totally and it it turns it into something that is actually you you you probably have a friend where they walk out of events and you're like like like Gary Vander like how the [ __ ] does he do what he does like the dude can got different batteries different batteries yeah he's got different batteries different batteries yeah it's like you you watch someone like that and you're like how do you feed off of that versus getting drained from it and and it's there's a lot of

tactics there so I just want to throw it as as a fun book to to tune into and it was it was a really fun podcast that we did so side note which is related to something you said about having the backup topics and then never using them yeah a friend of mine Neil stra have known forever very very funny skilled author he was also a journalist for a long time and interviewed dozens of the top celebrities and politicians and so on of the era and he would do tons of tons of prep he would

have all these questions written out on a piece of paper he'd Fold It Up put in his pocket never look at it for the interview yeah and it was just to have that confidence and comfort well if you hit a dead end you've got something to fall back on right yeah and I would also say quite apart from that part of how I have have resolved for myself some of the social anxiety is just assume that anyone you meet like everyone knows everyone in the sense that if you go to a party with 30 people

and you talk to one person for the whole night that is not a waste of time yeah even if you misfire overtime having that habit it's a very small world oh here's a good one Speaking of talking to one person have you ever found yourself in a conversation where you're like I got to get out of this conversation right you want to move on to the next person abort abort this is a really good hack actually he told me he you want to do some heroin and they're like what exactly exactly you offer them heroin

they're like I'm gonna go that way um no what you do this is a brilliant one it was one of my favorite um uh ones that he dropped on my podcast at Kevin rose.com uh what he did is he said that what what you can do is you what you want to do is you want to go in there and you want to say Hey listen I have some other people here that I need to go have a conversation with but I want to ask you one more thing about what you were just saying because

then it's not that I'm not interested in what you were saying it's you're not just you're dismissing yourself you're saying I'm going to do this thing but tell me a little bit more about what was so interesting about you which is a really fascinating little hat that's a good softening instead of like hey my cat's on fire I'm so sorry right exactly yeah uh I want to give people a little scoby snack which is totally unrelated to zapping brains or point and shoot uh this is if people want to hear something that 99% of you

will hate I'll give it to you anyway this was I'll give credit to S I'm not going to mention her full name but this is there's a band called ginger j i n j r this is a Ukrainian metal core band it is super hardcore the range is impressive with the vocalists involved it's very hardcore but this is introduced to me and I've been listening to it Pisces let's start with that track and uh so if you want something really strange to listen to you're welcome this is the random show it's the random show got

to live up to the name okay let me I'm going to give you one then son s o h n ah yes you the artist you've been texting me Non-Stop about son son is amazing underrated I mean he's got some tracks that have like millions of views but like underrated like amazing music just to chill out to so s o n SN also the name of a great Finance conference unrelated all right okay Android Android Gemini I want to hear about this well yeah okay I'll hit I'll hit one real quick you hit one real

quick and then we're going to we got like we're coming up on time but so you got 14 minutes yeah that's true uh every six months I try to move to Android and I fail and it sucks yeah uh I get I really want to do it and I get the phone and I'm like okay I'm excited this is the first time where I installed the beta for Gemini and Gemini is their their AI stuff right their chat GPT competitor Gemini sucked like 6 months ago not even that like 3 months ago it was horrible

it's got a lot better yeah and and no doubt I mean it's Google right you're going to throw some serious resources at this and figure out this problem um they did this update where you're you can actually integrate it into and replace the assistant on your phone now um much in the way that you can assign a a to the new Apple iPhone you can take this new button that's in the corner uh the action button and assign it to chat GPT I saw him using this in the green room we had disagreement about very

impr Ms and how coffee uh of caffeine there were a little there were a few hallucinations but it was pretty convincing up until the punch line but the but the crazy thing is that for the first time I I realized that like I can't move to Android fulltime because of the freaking bubbles the green bubbles but but aside from that I will say that it was providing me insights that were actionable relevant and unexpected which I thought was just fascinating like I'll give an example I was supposed to head to the airport to catch a

flight to come out here and you know I'm with my family with my kids I want to say goodbye to my girls getting to LAX for my house is about an hourish and change you never know right and I got a notification it was like hey we saw in your calendar the flight we we've uh we know that the time you have to leave this is your check-in this is your Carousel and you actually have an extra 30 minutes and I was like holy [ __ ] that was was like all proactive right and you

know you ask Siri something you're like hey how many points did Steph Curry score last night and like some sometimes like I'm sorry I didn't get that yeah he like it's like here's your results from the web and you're like gee like thanks like okay I could have Googled that the and but like like Gemini now is giving you all that [ __ ] in real time and I'm like it's on like apple has to really go hard as obviously they are on they just haven't announced it yet but it's getting it's getting pretty awesome

I'm I'm excited for the future of of of what this is going to bring also translation and simultaneous translation of her conversation on Android is incredibly impressive yeah and it's going to get better so this is a this is a true story um right now uh yesterday I saw my podcast fully translated into um Spanish and Japanese in my voice and in my guest's voice and then I have another company that is doing the lips perfectly and so now they they're very Supple lips yeah they they're very plump I I get the injections um they

they will be I don't that'll just be like pulled out and put on Twitter um they will be they will be um it's going to be on my YouTube they'll be released they will be released actually in all these other languages and I'm imagining you're going to be doing that at some point soon yeah it's pretty it's surprisingly straightforward we'll all be hitting a GL Global audience in like every product and everything we do in the next 2 to three years yeah I mean the the sheer volume of content production is going to be so

outrageous that I think there going to be a number of secondary and tertiary effects including I think the halflife of Fame is going to go down dramatically right there's there there's not going to be another Oprah who has command of or half of a country with a show like that and the Decay rate is going to be really fast which I'm looking forward to personally I don't know there's some it's like public thing gets a little tiring what do you think about Jake Paul and Tyson uh if I've read some God okay so if if

we're gonna so 57 years old he's he's in incredibly good shape uh given everything did you watch those clips of him like f like punching the he still got some serious in the tight turquoise shorts yeah yeah I hope he wears those shorts when he fights so yes I look I don't want to fight Tyson I have heard rumors they're going to they're going to require headgear and 18 o gloves [ __ ] that's [ __ ] they can't do that that gives too much advantage to the young buck with more endurance I'd say if

you're going to fight make it a real boxing match if someone said Tim you don't ever have to podcast again $200 million step in with Tyson no no absolutely not dude you wouldn't take two rounds you take one punch from a professional fighter and the TBI like you're not going to be able to to count afterwards so well you got your magnets and [ __ ] you'll be fine got my magnets yeah no I I need no more head trauma in my life I think Tyson's gonna kick his ass yeah I mean my which I

I you know I I respect the guy cuz he went from YouTuber to like legit fighter like no doubt he would make a very good he's a serious fighter he's yeah he's he's a serious fighter I would say if it is to be a credible fight no headgear and regulation size boxing gloves having spent some time doing this kind of stuff yeah if you make them like the giant Sumo costume like uh protective uh outfits no one wants to watch that though they there can't people watch it people will watch it but if if you

have all those protective mechanisms in place it discounts the power and it rewards the the speed and endurance and that's going to favor it's going to favor a younger fighter is not going to wear headgear but he is I was saying just the rumors I've heard is that both of them will wear both but that negates the advantage that Tyson has and should have in such a fight yeah my opinion yeah so make it real if you're going to do it make it a real fight uh so let's see let's take a look at I

wish we could do some audience questions but we didn't set that up ahead of time we didn't set it up ahead of time so oh here I got one we should touch we we should touch on since we we talked about point point and shoot do you want to talk about Kevin's deflated balls that's my that's my that's my line item here yeah we can thanks Tim appreciate that uh so well he he how do we even go into this um so one of the things that I I find fascinating is these these uh these

GP one Inhibitors that they're going around the OIC and the the mararo mararo ETC um because it's going to change everything they're talking about like honestly with as much weight loss as it's going to happen over the next decade um you know the cost of flights will go down because there'll be less weight to to to actually like these are where they're going with this it's insane and um yeah a lot of major retailers budgeting for decreased snack consumption yes it's crazy so uh one of the things that people don't know about this is that

these started off not as weight loss drugs I mean people probably know but as type 2 diabetes drugs and so they're primarily used for glucose control and one of the things that I've always had an issue with I went to AA a decade ago and he tested Peta also a great podcast yeah fantastic uh AA is great um the drive podcast is fantastic he did he maybe do something called a glucose tolerance test you drink a big sugary drink and you watch how quickly your body can dispose of the glucose unfortunately mine's really shitty it

takes me a long time to get the glucose out and so these drugs were always interesting to me from that point of view like how can I have better glucose control largely because my dad died of a heart attack my grandfather died of a stroke like cardiovascular disease is is rampant on my my father's side and so um there's a a 20 this is like data we asked chat GPT earlier um it's real data though you can go the website there's a 20 uh 20% reduction in cardiovascular events for people that are on these drugs

even accounting for the weight loss even even taking an account and controlling for the weight loss and so I tried it a long time ago with with AA um just because I was curious this was like you know six years ago and um it it does you definitely lose your beer gut which is great Drew I see in the audience we like our our beer and our drinks um uh Drew is awesome uh the it does help on that front and the vanity front but like for me I would wear a Dexcom and my my

glucose was just like stable as hell which was amazing um and I like the cardioprotective benefits of it I didn't want to stand up because you lose muscle mass yeah that was going to be the question yeah so AA started talking about this and saying hey I don't put people on this because you lose muscle mass so what do you have to do you have to go and and do testosterone just to be clear you lose muscle mass because you're not eating so in a l cases people are not consuming enough protein nor calories right

exactly so you're not getting enough protein so you lose muscle mass and so you can do testosterone replacement therapy to counter it it's a whole mess M but if you do testost you've done testosterone replacement therapy did a post surgery yeah I did a whole cocktail you never had a little juice on the side no you hang out with Arnold dude you never have a little it's not like we're having omelets and steroids for breakfast no I uh yeah I have a lot of thoughts on this but I think that post surgery for certain instances

and so on I think it's indicated I think people need to be aware of the risks they're taking and post Cycle Therapy and various things they need to take into account yeah but well if you do it also you lose a lot of things down there like your balls shrink down yeah they turn into raisinets just as a side note raisinets yeah so anyway it's it's it's not it is a balance as longevity thing is is a really tricky thing and the thing for me is like I've never wanted to be someone that like I

don't believe in like living forever I don't want to do that I just want to see my kids grow up I'm an older dad like in the at the end I die at 7 like I still got all the pro I said you're an older Dad I am an older dad oh I know I have some ketchup to to what I'm saying oh speaking of which you're no you want to cover it son no you're single yes uh I I actually hear some there's surprisingly some ladies in the audience which is uh which is amazing

uh meet Tim Ferris on the sign he is signing uh books and no um how's that going dude what's it like now these days days I mean look anyone here who's participating in modern dating I think would agree that it's pretty [ __ ] bizarre so look there's some amazing people out there it is also I think depending on your standards one of my friends I won't name him but he was like oh you and your standards uh but if you have reasonable standards it is like finding a needle in a hyack because you're starting

from like all the apps are all the humans in the world so I think you need to have pretty tight criteria if you're going to make that remotely tackable like it's like dating on one hand is very fun on the other hand it's incredibly exhausting how how low do you go just out of curiosity how low do I go yeah what are you talking about mean like okay I get how that could be taken a few different ways but like as slow as necessary let's just say let's somebody's a fan you got one taker you

got one taker later uh that was quite the scream um so not not against it I'm not upset uh I'm like at your age are are you are you no are are you are you going like what it 27 30 32 I mean look I I would say oh God all right so I would say 28 plus is what I'm looking for like I want someone who has a reasonably formed identity and has demonstrated the the ability to handle hard things in life and so on and so forth if somebody is still really on the

path to establishing in their own minds who they are I think there's a lot of risk in that right because people develop in different directions and it's good to see someone who's reached some point of confidence in themselves and they have a degree of self-awareness in who they are what they like what they don't like yeah that takes time so I will say one one thing like it could also be you know quite a bit above that I'm not merri with that but I would say the B but you also want kids I also want

kids so that's a whole hot third rail that I'm not sure I want to touch it gets people very upset but yeah like there are some biological realities for sure one of the things I will say that I I do really respect about you is like I've I've I've had the chance to as have you to bump into a bunch of celebrities over our time in just mingling with folks and when you get to a certain state of of of notoriety it's easier to date and um one of the things that you've always said to

me is like you you want someone that is like challenging you intellectually um and and you've always had these really high standards in all the right ways like not just like you know looking for I'm looking and it's not uh I it's not necessarily like a canvasing Mena for my next chess partner type of situation I like I don't want to the last thing I want is to date me with long hair right that's like nightmare let me jump off a building now and like end it before it gets back bad but the uh what

I am looking for is someone I can admire like there should be a mutual admiration and the reasons for that can be many right but it's like somebody that impresses you that you admire which is very different from respecting right like respecting can have a negative connotation or an obligation feel to it whereas admiration like you can't force that yeah you can't do that because other people demand it it's very organic thing so I'm certainly looking for that I'd say we're going to get yelled at but we can push a little bit no we can

push a little you guys okay with another five minutes all right all right we'll go a little bit longer uh to shift gears just a little bit just because you mentioned something that has been on my mind a lot if this might be helpful to anyone lifespan life extension this is in the water a lot of people are talking about it a lot of people are obsessing over it and a lot of folks are um mostly like Tech males if I'm being frank but uh a lot of people are interested in not dying so there

is that but there is a lot of bandwidth a lot of money being allocated to thinking about life extension and I would recommend we mentioned petera earlier outlive his book talks a lot about health span not just lifespan take a look at that but on a very different level I've been thinking a lot about experiential lifespan so I think most people in this audience have probably experienced varying degrees of time dilation where maybe you go on an extended hike maybe you take a few days to do X Y and Z maybe it was during covid

because of everything that was changing minute to minute where you have for periods of time an increased frame rate it's like your normal frame rate I'm making this up it's like 24 frames per second but then you go to like a th000 frames per second and an hour or a day or a week can feel like months so I've been thinking a lot about how you can engineer that and schedule that in your life and if you say schedule three or four things that you know produces time dilation for you if that say just based

on the frame rate right kind of expands your year experientially to be an additional three months even if you don't extend your max lifespan you've extended your max experiential lifespan really significantly so what's been your strategy for that there a lot of miserable [ __ ] who want to live forever I mean let's be honest I I hate to say it but it's just like oh wow you just want to make this painful Journey as long as possible okay like that's one way to go about it uh how do I what how do you so

what are your strategies for that what is your like I we all agree like as you get older like it seems like time is just compressing and going faster and faster yeah there there are a few things uh and this there's a great article from John's Hopkins University magazine called ustruck which I actually put on my blog because it resonated with me so clearly I recommend people check that out because I do think awe and there are assessments of course for ranking your experience of awe and different environments but it's worth thinking about because I

do think it correlates to this time dilation there are a few things that hop to mind for me extended time off the Grid in say a mountainous environments seem to produce that being in seasonal environments as opposed to in one place say you're experienc in an equatorial place or some place like Costa Rica for instance for a lot of people is seems much faster time passes faster than it does in a place with Seasons as one example another would be the last few months I was uh in the mountain mountain and I was skiing for

the half for half of each day and you're changing locations a lot and people have probably experienced this where if you're at South by Southwest and you change locations you go to 10 different places in one day even if that's just8 hours it feels longer than if you're sitting at your kitchen table pecking away at email for that equivalent period of time the experience of time is different so changing locations that's something you can very easily plan into your life there's certain states of course I mean I'm not going to recommend this it is like

I mentioned contraindicated for a lot of people but certain psychedelic experiences yeah uh certainly can produce this but it's not exclusive to that at all yeah right if you've been for instance places that have a pervasive feeling of vastness for instance Montana you go there or Alaska it just feels bigger like the sky and everything seems vaster and that has an effect on your sensory experience that changes I think for me at least my perception of time uh lots of non-verbal stuff uh interacting with animals it's a whole separate conversation um I'm thinking of a

venture a pet detective with like the birds landing on his arms uh yeah yeah my experience with the Wolves certainly U so so there are ways that you can engineer this but I think that the most practical way to go about it is just to look back at the last two years identify where you experien these Peak moments of awe and try to figure out what the characteristics are the shared characteristics I think this is a major unlock because frankly humans have been trying to figure out the code of immortality and the found of Youth

forever it hasn't worked yet I hate to be the one to deliver the news and I'm I don't think we're going to figure it out in the next 50 years maybe people say that's pessimistic I think I would rather be pleasantly surprised when it works than to bank on it and have it not work so in the meantime there are some really straightforward things you can do let me throw out one last little hack before we go that is related to this um have you had seil gupa on your show yet no he's he's awesome

he's fantastic uh just human um and he uh wrote this book recently uh it's it's about the wisdom of Dharma and ancient techniques of tying back to India and how we can incorporate them into Modern Life and one of the things that um he he did some research on was these people that just have this like energy that is is every day um they're just they just keep going they just have this Unbound industry in uh energy and one of the people that is like this is Martha Stewart in her 80s so people say that

Martha Stewart now in her 80s has more energy than she did when she was younger and they went back and they asked her you know what are your what's the SEC here how'd you do this and it's breaks in the day and it's like breaking up don't do backtack meetings but taking 10 minutes to get outside to go for that walk for the day to break it up and actually you will d-stress yourself and also the day will seem Fuller and longer but the interesting hack was that if you ever say hey we're meeting we're

going to do a meeting Tim and I we're going to jump on a call and you know what I'm going to end 10 minutes early it's going to be from 1: to 1:50 instead of from 1: to 2 it never ends that way right you always go till 2:00 what he does is he starts his meetings 10 minutes late so the meeting starts 10 minutes after the hour so he always gets that break I thought it was brilliant and it's it's another fantastic book to read yeah so to underscore that I would say if you

feel rushed your time is going to feel compressed yeah right seems kind of self-evident but it's taken me a lifetime to this out so uh there are a bunch of things you can do right like that's part of the reason honestly I don't think there's any magic to say Transcendental Meditation but taking 20 minutes is a break twice a day way every day yeah what does that force you to do it forces you to realize that if I stop for 20 minutes twice a day my world does not completely fall apart and you end up

feeling less rushed and I think it's that cumulative enforced realization as much as the Mantra and all this other stuff that is so helpful for folks so it's helpful for me at the very least uh anything else we should probably vacate the St yeah that's it uh we should plug the way though our our friend Henry's meditation app that's it's a great 10 minutes a day to spend um uh Henry's got a great meditation out that yeah Henry is super legit he's been uh on my podcast twice he's been on your podcast Henry shookman sh

M also good way to take 10 minutes and have a break for sure all right I guess that's it yeah thank you everyone thanks everybody really appreciate [Applause] [Music] it