Alex Hormozi – Copywriting Masterclass, #1 Creator Mistake, 1M Books Sold

Alex rosi has written two killer business books that together have sold more than one million copies and all that obsessive writing has gotten him to 9 million followers across social media platforms and this is the first interview he's ever done that's all about the writing process one of the things that super distinguishes you is you just like go into Heros cave every morning and you just write right right so tell me about how you do that I wake up and then I caffeinate and then I put earplugs and headphones on um I close all the

windows and I really only write on Bays that I know have at least like six hours or more un interrupted um sometimes eight like I definitely suffer from like zerck effect which is open loop right the idea like if you have something later on in the day like it it it messes with me a little bit because I feel like I want to be able to lose myself in the writing and then like come up for air whenever I want to come up for air rather than think like I have to be done by this

time so that I can prep for this meeting or take this call or do this thing um and so I almost exclusively write on days where I have nothing on my whole calendar and so I optimize a lot of my calendar around when I'm in a heavy writing season around not having anything at all on my on on it and then when you sit down to write and say at 6:00 a.m. are you like I want to write for six hours these are the things I want want to get done I'm GNA get to- do

list how do you think about that man I feel like I'm incredibly unstructured with the writing besides just like violent effort but that's about it like I I write what I write um I never had writer Block in my life I usually have a game plan of what I'm going to write so like I would say from a writing process perspective I outline a book with what the table of contents is first I think we were talking about that before this started like the table content is the hardest thing I spend my time on once

I have that that's like basically the game plan and so each of the chapters I tend to have the same structure because I write the way I would like to read and so I like to have some sort of narrative or story that kind of puts context to what I'm talking about I also write obviously non-fiction and so this just gives color to that um I give a very short description of what this thing is that I'm that I'm going to be talking about um and then usually plentiful examples and then I will basically put

all of my my Alex notes um basically is the end and I pretty much stuck with that setup for all of the books that I've written um and I think that that setup has just gotten cleaner and clearer between the books um because they fundamentally are like my notes brought to life in a book format um but the hardest part for me is usually picking what story I want to tell um in each chapter that best embodies whatever the principal is or whatever the the the the core message of the chapter is um and what

visual framework I can tie to that that kind of like melts everything together or like ties it all together in a really clear way that's what I spend like I and I usually do words first and I'll then put these highlighted caps marks where I'll say like a picture that looks like this and then I'll move on so I basically do words first then I'll go back through I'll keep cleaning words and then I'll put rough Doodles in and then only at the very end will I come in and put the final Doodles because sometimes

like my orders change and I'll put numbers in a doodle that if I move the paragraph around like I have to redo it um but that's been my My overall process for writing but I just I just write and I write as much as I can until I can't write anymore where I feel like my words pre-uni of time starts to like Drop pretty precipitously tell me about those notes where do they come from is that like a note on your phone is that stuff that you've written in emails I have so many books to

write like right now I have like 20 more books that I have outlined my books are limited by my ability to promote and launch them more than they are limited by my ability to write them uh because I have what I know what my other books would be like I already know what my next two books are going to be yeah um and I write a lot of stuff down because I don't want to forget it like I have this this Excel sheet that has like 600 stories of my life and when I go back

through them I'm like oh yeah I forgot what that happened like and it's like it's it's in some ways it's kind of scary because I'm like man this was my life and I barely remember and I have to like retrace the synapses to like go back into the experience and I think that um a great a great fear of mine is forgetting um and so I write to crystallize um the memory but also whatever the finding was because I feel like if you can't remember the lesson you might as well not have lived it and

learned it and so I spend a lot of time trying to crystallize uh the knowledge into like artifacts that and I refer to my own stuff like I I use my own books for reference I think there's an Indiana Jones quote that I like a lot it's a it's Sean conry who says I think it's Indiana Jones th um and he says uh he says I wrote it down so I wouldn't have to remember it and uh because he was like you don't remember it he's like that's why I wrote it down but but it's

funny because people write things to remember things but they also write them because they think they'll forget them so it's just kind of this really interesting dichotomy like how how writing serves people different ways yeah so then when you're writing your books it seems like you're really good at crystallizing ideas in your head so when you sit down write leads or offers how much Fidelity do you feel like you had before you started the writing project versus how much of writing is a process of discovery for you I say it's two-third Discovery one third getting

the stuff that I already have out okay yeah like as I'm writing it I'm like o I didn't think about about that I'm going to have to clarify that and that's kind of like I feel like the most exciting part that's the fun part is when I like encounter some apparent conflict between two ideas that I know are both true but seem to be conflicting yeah that's where like all right where's the Nuance here under what context where where's the through line for this that can create some framework that actually applies to everything and so

um the two modes that I use for the Frameworks or even the writing that I have in general is uh util utility and validity h so uh is this true and in how many situations is it true and is it useful H and so for example if I say sometimes things happen and sometimes things don't incredibly valid not very right now on the flip side a lot of like at least in the non-fictional World a lot of like sales and marketing lore very useful not valid so I can prove a time when there's some sort

of tip or trick that works maybe in this scenario but not that scenario and so trying to distill out like what's the fundamental principle that applies to all scenarios is what makes that interesting for me like I have tons of anecdote and that's what creates some of the stories that are like in the books that I have um but I I call it like how do I break this so I'm like how do I break this model how do I break this truism and if I can't break it I can't think of a way that

I'm like it's done like it's good yeah my challenge when I do that is I kind of fall in love with my ideas especially after I've just written them so like if I'm 2 p.m. I did a morning writing session I mean it's like I it's like my mom like you can't say anything bad about her you mean but like it kind of takes time and so I'm pretty depended on other people that how we break ideas it doesn't sound like you have that same challenge though I definitely rely on my editor but I feel

pretty strongly in saying that like I have very little um loyalty to my ideas like I'm very willing to be like oh yeah this is probably not right I'm absolutely married to the truth zero about how we get there right and I think that's that's um that's at least how I approach this so what do you do you enter these intense writing seasons and is that like a season of no type thing where it's like an official thing so let everybody know I'm GNA be writing and I do say it's a season of no so

um Rea team knows that basically like I'll probably cut my calendar down significantly and maximize for full free days and typically during that season I'll only have two days ra te meetings and so I have five days a week that are completely empty and one of those days will probably get hijacked but I would say I'm pretty good about keeping that schedule because I also really like writing writing has definitely been a um a guilty pleasure um I love writing and it doesn't it doesn't make the most monetary sense for me but I really enjoy

it like I was the um VP of the school paper I was the editor-in chief of the literary magazine when I was in high school I got a full scholarship to toughs for writing um when I was in high school I end up going to VB but like that's so like I I really love writing um and I think that a big part of it is I love learning and I feel like if I really want to understand something I write a book about it yeah and that's been the process and so I love business

and so I love the components of business and I come in with like my preconceived ideas these are these anecdotal Frameworks that I when I have four five six 8 10 Frameworks that all of a sudden start have like a through line that I see I'm like there's a book here but then when I dive in it sometimes sometimes it goes great and I'm like wow I was right and then sometimes I'm like oh my God I was wrong that's when it's like really going through the muck sometimes not as fun but I want to

like get to the other side and I know the value of getting to the other side because that's where I feel like you get the most uh fulfillment where you're like this is true like you either talk to people one onone or you talk to people one to many they're either people who know you they're people are they're not fight me right you I mean it is valid and it's useful I love the idea when you're writing and you feel like you've just got an x-ray vision on how reality works it's like I've looked at

a hundred sales letters and I just saw like the core component that just went in all those that for me the line that people say sometimes is I don't like writing I love having written that's how I feel about the craft it sounds like you enjoy the process a lot more though I like both I really do think I like both I really enjoy writing I do enjoy writing and I enjoy having written those moments where you have those like little mini breakthroughs ever we call them at least my editor we call them like fight

me fight me statements we it's like we say his things it's like fight like that is true like there's nothing you can say about that you know and um when it's also useful that's when it's like we create these at least these little monarch to live by tell me about usefulness you've mentioned this a lot usefulness utility how do you think through that when someone uses this thing because I write non-fiction right and so when someone uses this framework this tool this tactic do they get to the desire they get the desired outcome and so

if it is valid um then it is true but if it's not useful to anyone there's no context under which they would actually use it and it would materially change the decision-making process or their behaviors in a way that would humiliate or make their lives better and so I like the the best frame like the value equation was is probably the core framework of the offerus book right that's the like that was the me that actually took like multiple years before I actually you know crystallize that um but that framework is useful all the time

everywhere like it's useful for ads it's useful for sales letters it's used for making offers because fundamentally it's what do people want right they want things that are fast they want things that are easy and they want things that are risk-free and if you try to find another component that that's that's not one of those variables it's like it probably is one of those variables I have yet to see and maybe we'll see it later um but I I've seen many people will republish the value equation either as their own or they like change the

icons but like no one has changed the for like they are the forward and so I see that as like it is valid now when I see like I think bad Frameworks you can make a framework anything you put a triangle you put three things on it it's a framework right yeah but that's not a good framework because I can break it pretty easily if I see lots of people starting to morph things around then it means that it's not correct right whereas the the like value equation has like stood the tested time at least

for now I only a few years but do you know the concept of Mei so this is they use this a lot at McKenzie different companies like that so it's mutually exclusive collectively exhaustive so an example would be ah we're struggling with our content strategy for the business all right well we got three options we can do more yeah we can do better or we can do different but actually there's no kind of content Improvement plan that isn't part of those ofs so when people break down problems they'll use the word Mei and then that's

how they think about it so it can hit all the options but also all the options are different from each other wholeheartedly agree and that's the that's 100% how I think about it I can't think of something that's where I think breaking the model like if I can think of an example that doesn't fit in this the model's wrong and I just keep doing it until I get those I mean more better news or more better different um is a great monor that I use a lot just in business to um but it's like are

there are there other of those indiff sub segments or subcategories that don't exist or that that people aren't using and that's that's what I enjoy trying to discover let's do this take a 100 million doll leads and I want to walk through how you think about book marketing so let's just focus on the cover okay and then just show it to the camera and what I want to hear is as you talk through it how did you think about leads the icon yeah the subtitle and then we'll talk about the back of the book after

okay so the cover I basically had to make the decision so this was the first book I was like am I going to do something totally different or am I going to just basically make this into a series so immediately what we see is100 million the same you took out the testimonial at the top that's what I see yeah um and so I just went with another color there was really no Rhyme or Reason for blue I was like blue sounds fine yeah um in terms of uh the the icon I'm pretty sure I wanted

to do a magnet I just kind of was like you want to attract leads and I couldn't think it it was either going to be fishing or a magnet I think I saw somewhere that you AB tested the heck out of them yes so I AB tested the heck out of this I AB tested probably like three or four of the image of different basically different um different magnet variations um but the word leads I tested the hell out of and so I had $100 million promotion $100 million advertising $100 million leads $100 marketing and

leads was the one that won uh and so I was like okay if leads and kind of interesting though because leads is the output of advertising and so no one wants to advertise people want leads huh I mean that's that's Alex's conclusion I could be wrong I haven't tested it but like right but if I if someone said why do you think that that would have been my that would have been my answer and so um I tested because what's really interesting I mean and to be fair it's like kind of the contents of the

book is um people do judge a book by its cover of course and if you're going to go through all the all the the work of writing the book which is significantly harder than testing the cover in the title um like do that right you know what I mean I think the first time I heard about this was I think Tim Ferris uh tested 4our a 4our work week yeah for his book and he hated the title but it it crushed uh all the other titles and so he because he's like I don't even really

believe like just only working four hours a week but it just it murdered and so that's what the book became and obviously became bestseller and I read this um there was this uh like white paper that was released by this uh publishing company or that helped self self-publishers and they talk about this uh dating help book that sold like no copies and saw this okay yeah and then all they did was they changed the cover and they changed the headline or the you know the title of the book and they became like an international bestseller

and when I saw that I was like all right this is important I should take the time time to actually like make sure now the big picture that was basically how I picked the the the headline and then the image and then the subhead I also tested a ton too which is how to get strangers to want to buy your stuff and how do you test that when you say this what I would assume as I go to Google on Facebook and I see what drives the most traffic but how do you test the subtitle

I can tell you I have the actual tests here so it's like okay I had the realistic versus the cartoon version so I tested that out and so the real one did better it also was aligned with the real image out the first one so I was like okay that's good um advertising Crush promotion so I was like okay advertising is the winner and then I did um advertising versus leads then leads was the winner then I did leads versus marketing now that one was really close but leads still won so that's why I ended

up doing leads u in terms of subheads I only showed two of the tests here but I ended up doing like probably five or six how to get more people to want to buy your stuff how to get strangers to want to buy your stuff so strangers narrowly beat out more people now this is the one that I thought was the most interesting test of the whole thing so how to get more strangers to want to buy your stuff how to get strangers to want to buy your stuff 71% to 29% like just a one

word and so when I saw it's like it's so sensitive and I just I just come in with like no ego about what I think it's going to be and even because some people are also like hey you should do a shorter version so just get strangers to want to buy your stuff versus how to get strangers to want to buy your stuff 70 to 30 with howto in front right and so even work concision wasn't necessarily um the thing that people kind of like optimize for right and so anyways yeah I tested that the

how of the the title the image and the subhead because fundamentally anybody who's in my audience who has read the first book they have a high likelihood of buying the second book if they got B from the first one I'm not making that for them I could just call this book two and they probably would have been willing to at least take a shot on it I have to make this for all the people who don't know who I am and I have to optimize for that one split-second decision where they're like uh it's like

you know actually it sounds pretty good like and it's clear like what does this book do get strangers to want to buy your stuff okay what's the opp of that leads okay this makes sense I need to leads so I will buy this book on how to get strangers one right back cover talking about that so this is like my little mini sales letter so I just wrote this as like kind of like blind bullets um of the stuff inside of the book it's so I basically just took the chapters and tried to translate it

into a a bullet that doesn't say what it is but gives kind of like the benefit of it but hold on when you say this is my sales letter that is like uber Hermos brain going do that so what matters in a sales letter so you can get 2x 10x or 100x more leads than you currently are without changing anything about what you saw that I think is fair like it's a fairly compelling promise and so then it's like okay I want to learn more about that now the next kind of like bigger fun is

I wrote this book to solve your leads problem and if you talk to small business owners the largest reason that people will say if you look at like the small business surveys why they go out of business they say lack of lack of leaf lack of marketing lack of your business what whatever second is running out of money but I see that as lack of blads right chicken you chicken egg and so then I put a little bit of proof so it's like today our companies generate 20,000 new weeks per day across 16 different companies

or sorry 16 different Industries um and they do it using eight never- go hungry playbooks inside uh once you see them you can't unsee them they're so powerful they work without your permission right so like once you once you use it like you don't you don't have to believe it's going to work it just works better period And so you know the easiest way to get another five customers tomorrow so that's warm out reach that's the first the first of the core four so it's the benefit of the core four that's War Outreach it's the

how you get first five customers uh the hook retain reward system so that's content it's the second chapter um and so I just talk about the media part of it uh for that you know six part ad framework that gets more people especially strangers to want what you sell that's G to be the paid ads chapter and so I just took the chapters and turned them into the benefits of the chapter um those are super specific that's what strikes the bullets yeah right cuz if I look at these bullets right the six-part ad framework that

gets more people especially straight rers to want what you sell how to get people to want what you sell would be like ah but you're like there's actually a lot of things going on six part at framework the specificity leads to credibility there more people especially strangers to me that Nuance is like yo I've thought about this I know how you think well and these are just very concrete yeah so that's how I thought about the front and the back cover of the book I like it how is your writing different for when you're writing

for books like that versus video and what comes first the books lead to the videos the videos lead to the books how do you think about that totally process yeah so um mainly because of the volume um that has to go out if I'm on camera I'm not very scripted um it's more like these are bullets that you know we'll probably make sure that we nail the introduction because that's very important um so nailing the introduction nailing what the road map is for the for the see the movie for the video and then like it's

almost like I'd say this the the YouTube videos are far closer to what my writing outlines look like than my final prod because if I were to write the YouTube videos as they were writing the book it would take me probably a week of pure of five days five full days to to write just the video to make it to air you know airtight air seal uh all the words but we can do uh you know a a writing outline in like 30 minutes uh or an hour you know for for a video and that's

much more manageable like I actually do other stuff for a Liv how do you think about those hooks so we will look at other industries that have higher performing videos typically and look at packaging that seems to have performed well and we say is there a business version of this that we could do so what's an example of that uh there's this one where this girl said like my my memor my my system so that you can uh out learn anyone or something like that and I think we made a version of that was like

how you can outwork anyone uh and I think that's what we ended up doing for the video so then as you think about the interactions the hooks the frame for the videos what matters because it's interesting you basically said I'm pretty unscripted except for the very beginning which a lot of work goes into kind of like the book well except the book is very scripted a l way through but like but like the amount like 8020 on the effort of like where's the biggest the biggest bank for the buck is always going to be it's

you know hook packaging title thumbnail first you know 30 60 seconds is going to be where you have probably the biggest leverage on performance for a video and this is just something we learned um obviously average VI duration long term is going to be something that lifts a video but right out the gate um it's hard not impossible to overcome a video that's just tanky yeah we want to make stuff that people want to consume and so I think the like solving for making sure they want to consume it is the title and the packaging

and the introduction and we have to just solve for congruence like is the thing they clicked on the thing that they're going to get and making sure that they feel like they're going to get it like that that promise is going to get delivered on and how do you think about when you're delivering a story how that is different in video versus writing I actually feel like my stories in video are pretty are pretty comparable in my stories in writing yeah because I think I have a pretty colloquial kind of tone that I use in

the stories and writing I my writing more mirrors how I talk when it comes to stories right yeah so here I am in the middle of nowhere right like you know like and a guy pulls a gun like Stephen King like if you're not sure what do with the story just bringing a guy with a gun yeah um same same kind of idea uh but I just I tell it like I would be telling it to a friend there're probably different styles of writing I assume you would know this better than I do but um

I tend to try and get everything out as fast as I can yeah and then I kind of look at as like coats of paint and that's the description I like it's just like yeah I let it breathe then come back to it and then I do another coat and then another coat another coat and for me most of the kind of coats of paint I'd say the the vast majority of my editing that not socialized is me crunching is crunching things down crunching things down crunching things down how can I use few words how

can I use simple words how can I use few words I can use simple words and I keep doing that until I feel like anything else that I would remove would materially detract from the substance of the book once I do that and the that process right there is usually like 10 drafts so I do a lot a lot of drafts you did 19 for leads yeah need leads was unor and I basically started from scratch at about halfway through those so like at like I think it was I think it was draft 12 I

like I remember it it was like draft 12 was like I was like I'm done like this is it this is this book's awesome and then that's when I socialized with like 10 or so readers and was like okay let me know what you guys think and the feedback that I got I was like I have to rewrite the book and so I rewrote the book um but most of the time um the editing from the socialized post um is I actually use Stephen King's kind of like method there which is if people have like

little tidbits I'll usually clarify those pieces add those in that's easy if I have many people who have different comments about one section their comments usually don't matter it's more that there's something wrong with the section and so um in the third book that's coming out there was there were like like two chapters that were short that I put at the beginning which is you know Prime territory in terms of you know people falling off on I'm super to front-end feedback and there was just like every reader had something to say about this chapter and

um I just cut the chapter entirely and then just like edited the book to not reference the the material in that chapter and I thought of the chapter as a pretty core chapter to the book and so then I was like okay how can this book exist without this chapter and I ended up being able to do it by literally just doing control rrf for a word that I basically hardcore toine as this as one of the Core Concepts and it was like I just will fully explain it every time I have it throughout the

book and as soon as I cut uh it was it was actually I think it was three chapters one section um it was like the book was just it's like reading downhill you I mean it's just like you just you just keep rolling totally and um that's kind of how I see so little things I'll just if I agree with them I'll quick fix if I don't agree I'll just ignore but if many people come in one section I'll strongly consider deleting it entirely um or I have to just delete well I'll delete the whole

thing and then rewrite it or I'll just delete it entirely most times I'll just delete it if I can and then when you say the pain is the pitch I mean I understand what that means conceptually but tactically when you're sitting down to write copy you're working with a business and you're trying to get more leads or something like that what do you do with that sentence so you fundamentally have two two two methods of persuasion right um you could go for I can go into that but like you have more good stuff less bad

stuff huh fundamentally so you got promise you got pain these are your two weapons right uh and so my goal is to highlight both of those now from a selling perspective you make an offer at the point of greatest deprivation not at the point of greatest satisfaction and so for example let's say you're you're incredibly hungry and you come to my steak house and I say do you want a steak and you say yeah so you have a steak and after you have the steak I'm like how was it you're like oh my God it

was amazing thank you so much and I say awesome do you want another steak and you'd be like uh no I'm good I be like what you didn't like the steak and you're like no I liked the steak I'm I'm I'm good right and that's because I'm trying to sell the coin of greatest satisfaction not a great greatest coin P coin of greatest pain whereas if you walk in the second time a week later and you're starving and you walk in I say hey you're really hungry and you're like yeah you're like want two stakes

you might be like yeah two stakes hungry right and then you buy you buy more right and so we sell the point of greatest pain not the point of a satisfaction now the caveat to this is people are like wait you should sell when you provide value only when the value that you deliver creates a new problem that you can then solve and so for example if you are a marketing agency whatever and you help a customer um get a whole bunch of leads all right you once you solve their leads problem if you say

hey do you want even more than they're like no I can't even handle them so at that point you solve the first problem but now they need somebody to help them work the leads they're now hungry for dessert right right or whatever so they have a new deprivation that we can then sell the next day and so I see that as a big mistake from a copyrighting perspective is actually the timing of when the copy is being delivered in the in the larger context U rather than the subc context of the of the the Prospect

and so when I'm thinking about the pain is the pitch to bring this full circle is I want to think about as many very concrete examples that someone would experience pain and so I remember when I was uh so when Le I were really poor and I just lost everything and we decided that we weren't going to actually do the gym business anymore so there there's this like you know 30-day period where we decided we're not going to do the gym Fin and so uh I said okay she had lost 100 pounds intended a fitness

competition all that stuff and I was like all right I'm going to write a sales page of your story because my story isn't compelling I've had a six talk my whole life no one cares and so but her she had all this weight loss whatever and so I wrote her life story and she was like this is more compelling and I'm the one who lived it and I didn't live any of it but I just thought about like how she would wear a coverall when she would go to the beach and she would get chafing

between her thighs when she was walking all day she was overweight back to that specificity and not wanting to be in pictures and just be always in the second row or to the side because she didn't like having a picture taken and I'm like how many these moments right so like pain happens in moments and so it's I want to capture the moment because anyone who's had that pain is like I never want to live that I will never never want to have that happen again I think that if you can accurately describe a prospect's

pain in their own language in their own experiences you can persuade them to buy whatever your product is based on how well and how knowledgeable they believe you to be as a function of how specific you were about the pain they're experiencing and so if I if I'm talking to a business owner that's doing $10 million a year and I'm like this is what's going wrong in it right and this is what's going wrong in sales and this is what's going wrong in your marketing and this is what's going on in they're like okay I

get it I get it you you know where I'm at I'm like right do you want my help I don't have to make a promise if I can describe the pain so acutely and they're like you can't know that pain this well and not be able to deliver sure and so that's where the pain is the pitch comes from and so often times um when people trying to write sales Pages or even they're trying to do sales pitch um they I think many people will overemphasize promise and there's nothing wrong with having promise you know

private it's compli all that stuff um but the thing is pain is what motivates a lot of people take action it's cool to hear you speak because what really stands out is how much of an engineer you are and you have this almost mathematical not formulaic way of speaking but you are in search of formulas in the way that Engineers are and basically trying to break down reality into formulas to basically say yo I'm trying to figure out how things work simplify it get it to a place where it's super clear concrete stories examples and

then I'm going to share it for you so that any problem that you have here's an answer feel like that's a lot of what you're going for and you're right it's 100% what I'm going for is actually very well described when I get like in my deep emotional places I'm like I just feel like I want to understand the world better and a lot of times I feel like I don't understand it well at all and so a lot of my writing is an attempt to just understand one tiny quarter of it and that's just

happens to be the quarter that I spend a lot of my time in and so I spend a lot of time thinking about business and so a lot of my Frameworks a lot of my writing a lot of my content is in search of simplified formulas of seeing the world accurately and so fundamentally if you can predict you can control what do you mean if you know all the variables that you can influence to create an outcome right which means that if you have a perfect predicted model so this would be like from a science

perspective like if you have all the variables that predicted outcome then if you verse that it means you can also control the alome okay if you can manipulate the variables if the weather is one of the variables fine if I can't control the weather but if I can put someone indoors and mimic the weather then I can in a very way in a real way uh control the outcome so what you're saying is that businesses have these similar equations and you can say I'm shing with this I can pull the lever on leads and then

I know what's going to happen here or there yeah we don't have enough demand okay well demand is straightforward are we going to talk to people oneone are we going to talk them one to many well what how many customers are we going after Fortune 100 so it's probably going to be a one to one approach are we going after Mass Market weight loss it's probably one to many okay cool if we're doing one to many like are we going to do paid ads or we gonna be making content okay well we could use one-on-one

to get Affiliates who then are doing paid ads or doing content on our behalf well then we can use that strategy but fundamentally the only four things that you can do as the entrepreneur or whatever is cod Outreach form Outreach PID ads content that's it it's the only thing you can do but what about Affiliates well you do one of those four to get the affiliate MH you reach out to them you make content saying hey I'm looking for Affiliates or you run ads saying hey I've got an influencer program you're going to still have

to do that first core 4 to get other people to come do the other stuff on your behalf ah here's the other Fair Alex there's the dude there's two lines that I feel like I've really that that I think you really nailed okay the first is we'll talk about this one first that if you put in 10 times more work into a book MH because the quality is better you end up with a 100 or a THX the word of mouth yeah talk to me about that it's kind of the difference between you know gold

medal and fourth place the real difference is small the Practical difference is enormous so what's the difference in terms of someone's life when they're the gold medalist of something they get endorsement deals they're forever the gold Champion like all that stuff fourth it's like you get nothing right and so I think a lot of people don't even get fourth to be real you know like they're like number 100 and they but the thing is they still try pretty hard yeah it's just that all of the best Returns come at the end of work it's like

those it's the it's the 16th coat of paint that really just makes it that little bit better and I think in an increasingly connected World more things are win or take all well the way that I put it is that the curse of the internet is global competition yeah the gift of the internet is global reach yeah and because of that your stuff has to be way better in order to stand out but then the rewards on the other side are way bigger yeah I think nval has a good quote on this he says um

technology uh democratizes consumption and consolidates production and so it means that if you're the best in the world you get to do it for everyone Y and so then it's like if you get to do it for everyone then it's like then trying to become the best in the world and the best in the world definitely not going to do it on four yards a week it's higher leverage to work more which sounds ironic or counterintuitive right because then that's kind of the point the like I think why you like that statement it's like how

are you telling me that this unscalable effort where I'm putting in n equals whatever many more repetitions like I'm getting diminishing returns here right how can it how can that be more efficient than doing half the work or having a ghost riter it's like well if I have a ghost writer no one's going to tell talk about my book right like I'm just going to have a marketing campaign I'm going to sell whatever it is before people read the book and that's it but the long tail on time is huge and so the fact that

like Rich Dad Poor Dad still sells 100,000 copies a month 40 years I 50 years later than when he originally wrote it I'm like I want to build assets not magazines with hard covers and that's also why I spent a long time on all the books to try and make them to make them Evergreen like think about writing a book on Advertising without talking about any single platform Facebook is not in there Instagram is not in there so as you were thinking about these you were like in 20080 I want this book to be as

useful as it was when I wrote this and the easiest way I do it is I back test it what does that mean does this make sense 2,000 years ago people still want things to be risk- free they still want them to be fast they still let them be easy you can reach out to people one one that you know that you don't know reach out one to many uh that you know that you don't know like reaching out one to many is standing on the corner corner of a street and shouting right that's what

it is right right you could put a billboard up you can have a sign like this works 2,000 years ago and so that's so rather than try to predict the future I just look at the past and say does it still work this one's good too it's from mangela if people saw how much work I put into my they wouldn't think it's as exceptional as it is I love this um this visual which is that if you look at a marathon right if you've ever like God with somebody to some Marathon that they're running and

you wanted to support them 95% of people are in two places at the beginning at the end but the marathon is everything in between and so we as a society the Highlight Reel is only these two places and so what happens is most people in their mind assume that that is the race starting and then finishing but the 26.2 miles that happens in between like the mundane middle right Master the middle um is the part where the Champions made and so I think that to the same degree like if people saw that I wrote 19

drafts of this book they wouldn't think it was that special can we do this can we open up to that table of content once again I just want to remind you take as much time as you need to find so it's the second sticky note here so if you go right here should opened up right to it but as much time as you need to go through the table of contents and I think it' be really cool to walk us through how some of these ideas changed and also I just want to emphasize before you

start here this table of contents it's not like oh Alex made a table of contents no no no this the table of contents is the outline for your book yeah and so it does a lot more than a standard table of content and I feel like that's how Alex's opinion I feel like that's how books should write like if you want to if you want to figure out if you want to read a book I feel like you should read the table of contents and be able to make a good decision sure and that's kind

of and I try to make my my titles and chapter headings like pretty descriptive like this is about Orma reach so what's going on here so when you start what am I looking at so believe it or not this book was was the original through line was going to be about leverage and I ended up cutting all of the leverage Concepts from the book for the most part except for one chapter right before lead Getters um because I just it was so difficult to try and weave it in that I it felt forced I still

believe it to be like the actual essence of that but because it's like how can I as one man get 20,000 30,000 leads a day like how well I can't do it I do it through leverage sure and so that was kind of like the the Catalyst for wanting to even like begin writing about this yeah um but anyways so uh this was kind of like my rough ideas okay you know I have to Define some terms right I have to define media lead gen leads content promotion uh the three contact types which is not

even a thing uh I thought it was going to be a thing it wasn't a thing promotions I ended up just cutting entirely from the book and using somewhere else I'll just leave that there um you know and you know I was going to take this very like like everything we used to talk about marketing is wrong right and um I do believe that to a great degree that that is somewhat true but it's like okay now you got to define the target so there's like the market you know deeper up down adjacent um different

Market types I ended up cutting that from the book so but what I see you doing here is you're kind of trying to do a full pass give yourself enough Fidelity to see where you're going but you're not married to this I mean we did 19 drafts here and we completely rewrote it after number 12 but you're not married to this but it's crucial that you're actually putting enough on that you're like I can at least start walking now yeah and so I would say that one of the biggest filters that I use for utility

is whether it can be operationalized H and so the fact it's unsurprising to me now because this was however many years ago that I wrote that the activity box is what I called this I didn't even have the name of the core for yet but the idea that like what can I tell someone to do if I can't change their behavior they cannot learn which means that there's no point in writing about it unless it changes their what they do right and so that has pretty much been the a the biggest lens that I use

from a cutting perspective when I'm making the book and so I think the reason a lot of people are like man the books are from what I understand people say that it's they're they're really digestible they're really easy to use really easy to understand it's because I talk almost zero about theory yes I only talk about what you do yeah and by talking that way it's it it demystifies a lot of it I will eventually write a book on branding but I looked up all the all the definitions of branding on the internet from different

marketers and I was like I don't know what any of this means they're all fluffy yeah it's all like the feelings Impressions experiences that a prospect has and Associates I was like I don't know what any of this is right it's like well if I want to Brand I have to figure out what I do what I do to Brand right and and answering that question has pretty much been how I try and answer everything within business it's just like okay how like what is sales sales is just having a conversation that increases like that

someone purchases right it's like Okay cool so then everything that increases the likely that someone purchases within the context of conversation is sales right and so then like okay now I can start working through this right okay so this is the first version and what I will say that often happens is like I'll write all these ideas that I want to have in the book and I'll probably end up being able to make the book like 10% of it so like if I look at all of this I cut out like I cut out so

many PE like I have this the just this one line was the second half of the book like just this one line um like operational drag reliability method platform off all of that was cut uh more new better I actually put at the end of section one around the activities like anyway I move so actually this is really interesting that you don't actually have a very good sense of what ideas are going to be the best ones like you love more new better you absolutely love that idea but look where it is it's section six

bottom line almost looks like an after so that this idea right here that's like an embryo that then really grew through the process of writing this book oh yeah so like once I get tired enough of something I'm like all right I'm going to rewrite it from the top again and so this is me rewriting it uh the sections right and so I'm like okay now it's actually just toine the target where when give ask evaluates scale so I thought it was going to be this like incremental process that I'm leading somewhat because again leverage

was like this through line that I wanted to have um uh through the book and so then I got to like okay maybe I can try and visualize this a little bit better and so you know marketing like where do people actually come from right because people exist how do I get them to find me like I would have forced them to find which fundamentally is what I think advertising is you force people to find out right it's also just striking that you're doing a lot of drawings to basically work out the high level thing

this isn't you're writing and then you're drawing it's like you're drawing and that's how you kind of get the conceptual map of where you're gonna go yeah I do almost all Doodles in the beginning yes so Doodles are at the beginning at the end and this is an iPad thing yeah yeah just like just you know just notes or whatever I mean there's a huge amount of time that I was like you know media different you this a book on Advertising so I'm like okay well media is a huge thing platform's a huge thing audience

selection is a huge thing and so the whole time I'm thinking like okay maybe that's media section one platform section two audience section three and I'm like that's not that's it's going to be so boring like it's going to be a terrible book um and then I was like okay what about the process like how do people buy now real quick when you get there you're like oh it's G to be so boring it's be a terrible book are you down on yourself or you at this point like you know what I'm going to work

through this I need to find another way so right here this right you these four little lines end up being the second half of the book wow right so like it it totally like it just keeps and a lot of times it's like this cutting away process right this actually just continued from the the one before because I went this is all leverage all this stuff was leverage so I'm like okay this is the first time I'm like really I've got this attract attention interrupt attention so I was like maybe that's G to be like

an angle yeah because I didn't I did but see this is the mosy method which is like you're always trying to find either mutually exclusive Collective collectively exhaustive or these contrasts where you're either on this side or you're this side which I think is how you can make the mees yeah like if you draw like if you draw one line it's going to be valid if you draw two lines it's much harder prob not be valid because are they all true mutually exclusive right um yeah so this is me trying to put sentences in place

of all the different ways you can get customers okay um God this is so like and then I try to makeing this like Leverage equation of like you times promotion times offer times the medium times the platform like that's all the variables that that exist this whole thing ended up being one paragraph wow in um in the second half of the book that's absolutely striking to me is how you just don't actually have a very good intuition for which one of the ideas are going to be good and that's not I think that that's all

writers we just kind of have to wait and see and I was like I'm supposedly good at marketing so that was a little humiliating um this has been my big filter is like what what do I do what do I yeah what does someone do as result and if I if I can't clearly Define that then I probably either just need to break it down more or I just need to cut it it's just not a thing yeah that's been probably my number one filter for everything like what does it change about someone's behavior and

that's why defining learning was so important for me like if I want this book to educate educate it's about changing Behavior F if you don't change your behavior you learn just like in the simplest like that is how you find learning um and the speed of the speed of the rate of uh uh of learning is intelligence so if I have to show you the same multiple times before you change your behavior then you are dumber than some you can change it immediately sure right um so growing a you got do more pay more new

platforms more frequency more uniques more impr like I I kept like working through this and so this was actually just continued there from that same that same page and them like okay SC all of that let's start with just like what about the basic questions of like okay maybe it's just who what where when how how much how long and what's crucial is you don't get here unless you have all these pages and so that I for a minute I thought this was going to become the table of contents and then what it really became

is this became the action uh at the end of every chapter for U yeah go for it yeah so that's the final result of me being like oh this isn't the table of contents this is what I need to show for every way of advertising so when you're posting content and you make your action checklist you just have to say okay who's my customer you know what what am I like what am I going to do where am I G to do what medium or platform when am I G to make this post so this

is basically how you make your list of this is what I'm going to do ni I love how messy all this stuff I don't know I find that to be so gratifying you know because it's so clean in the output and it's just that this is a train wreck thanks man yeah three ways I mean I could keep going on this but if do this go to the very last one or the table of contents in here fin yeah let's go to the finals yeah and so I got to hear and then I thought and

this this is what was so painful I thought this was going to be a thing forever like I thought that I had this like friction framework thing like filters cuz I thought was like maybe it's like a distillation process like you distill like raw attention is the input and then leads is the distilled output of that and so I kept doing that lead there legely distillation process and so then I was like maybe I make an acronym around this um and then I'm coming back to this method medium thing that took forever to try and

work through um and then I was like can I do pce like I don't know if I can find an outr I use it I kept going I don't even know where the end of this thing is right so right here I see start here get understanding get leads get lead Getters get started yeah and then this became the final so this was like a couple versions before the final and then that was the final nice that very messy process got me to hear wow I mean this is the work man if it's all it's

draft after draft after draft so we look at how much stuff is here yeah right the amount that actually made it to here is like this this line This became one chapter and that's it everything else I more or less threw up so that's how I came over to the table of content and then I was like all I gotta do now is just write the book right so then once you did that then it was basically game time yeah then then it was easy I want to tell you about the only app that I

use to read articles and it's called reader so tell me if this sounds familiar you read something brilliant like an amazing quote the perfect article but then one day you go back you're looking to find it and it's just gone you can't find the thing that used to drive me crazy but then I found this app called reader and it's become the backup system for my brain here's how it works so whenever I'm on my phone I'm on my computer I'll come across a new article and what I do is I just toss it into

reader and then whenever I'm ready to read I can find all the articles pre-downloaded with no ads and no clutter but here's the kicker every time I highlight something reader automatically saves it for me so then if I'm writing and I need that perfect quote that perfect example it's just right there waiting for me and because that I don't have to dig through old notes or endless browser tabs anymore and that means that I can focus on writing reader is the sponsor of today's episode and look I got to love a product in order to

promote it and I can tell you that I use reader every single day so this what I did I called up the CEO and I said yo will you give how I write listeners 60 days free and he said sure they got to sign up though at readwise doio David Perell and there's a link in the description below all right back to the episode tell about this how do you think about who you're writing for because one of the things I learned from you is there's this difference between being known and being respected true and

it's really easy to look at the analytics and say number go up therefore good but no you're trying to reach a specific kind of person so how do you think about that I think it's the validity utility piece like is this useful and I think that people will consume things that are useful for them like does it make their life easier does it make things happen faster does it make things less risky depending on who you talk to like if I talk about food then that applies to everyone if I talk about leads it's only

apply to people who are advertising which is usually business owners and so I think about this in context of deep and wide deep versus wide and so wide I Define as um something that is only useful for a beginner and deep I toine is something that is useful for anyone like in a in a verle and so how to get your first five clients is useful really only for a beginner because anybody who already has customers is like I know how to get my first five clients but if I talk about um strategy that's useful

for somebody who's starting out and somebody who's got a billion dollar company because I don't think they're mutually exclusive I can have something that's deep and wide um and those that's that's kind of our sweet spot for what we try to do now we don't always succeed but like that's our that is the intention is I'd like to have something that a beginner can get value from and somebody who super Advance can also get value from them independent of their context and how do you think about the general Str strategy of what you're doing like

what was the Genesis moment of we're going to make rock and business content and then that'll be the first Domino that then makes all these other ones fall Tim feris has his concept of like the big Domino so you kind like I don't know if you're purposely referencing it but basically like is there one thing that is so important that I can do that if I do that it makes the rest of my to-do list irrelevant and so it's like if you have 100 things on the too list it's like there's probably not one that's

important enough because if it were important enough it would make the other one disappear either shrink into irrelevance or accomplished by consequence right and so we're investors right and we have capital and so what does every investor want they want proprietary deal flow and you want to shift the supply demand um in your favor and so if I can have unlimited people coming towards me who have good businesses that want to do Deals Only with me then I can decrease the likelihood that basically I can decrease my skill at picking and and negotiating and still

probably do well I saw the ultimate Way of maximizing my luck surface area as building you know our hope is the most valuable business brand out there to business owners and if we can build that then I don't need to worry about all the negotiation tactics I don't need to worry about having the most capital I don't need to worry about having the best term sheets I don't need to worry about any of these things if I just have more people who want to do business with me than I can possibly do business with and

then after after you you you match the supply demand of like okay there's more people who want to do business with me then it's how what quality of person like basically then you can just consistently continue and that's kind of an unlimited I think continue to raise the bar of the quality of company and entrepreneur that you work with and so like the companies that we that we invest in now don't even look close to the companies that I invested in four years ago talk for you about this the number one Creator mistake is building

new products for Their audience rather than building more audience for their product okay I'm going tell you this little Side Story and then I'll ask the question so um I I'm I'm really a pretty big stickler with written word um and so it's been very difficult for me to have anyone write for me at all and so as a result basically the only thing that's fair game that my team can use to put captions on stuff is stuff that I have said in a video and they can just transcribe it or tweets okay that's it

and anything else that you've seen that's written is me okay and so like just put context on like if all the words that are out there like I have written all of them or I've said them that's it and so um to your question this is more of a business mistake than I think it it's just creators fall in the same traps and so let's say they they spend this time gring Their audience and they get to call it you know 100,000 followers whatever and then they come out with a product and then they sell

the product and they make money and then they're like huh I should come out with another product to make more money but what it did was it reinforced the wrong activity because it was late so the activity that made the money was building the audience not coming with the product and so what happens is you find these creators who have like six businesses essentially which is really just like six different products that each of the businesses in of themselves could be hundred million plus businesses but they don't have enough audience and so they do the

short-term fix which is come up with another thing but long-term you end up drowning in the fact that you have six businesses and your attention split and so there's two components to this so one is that if you just launch a product on its own and there's no repurchase rate or it's not consumable and there's nothing recurring about it then you're going to have to keep coming with products which means that's kind of a strategic mistake right you should have just thought of something that like if we launched it people were going to buy it

quickly but then keep buying it now you have a regular stream of income and you can take that income and keep doubling down on the audience to grow it or pay for other people's audiences or pay for ads or like all the other strategies that are in the book of like expanding expanding your reach um but fundament that's the Trap is that rather than saying because like you just think about a long enough time Ros it do you just keep starting new products and then you in in 20 years you have 30 products that you're

doing uh or and my when I say products a lot of times it's businesses because the products are actually not they are too differentiated to be like a second product in the same line I someone have two different t-shirts I don't see that as different product if someone goes from t-shirts uh to selling Consulting that's a different product right versus the alternative which is like I just make t-shirts and I keep advertising and all I do is I keep getting more and more people to find about my t-shirts and my my brand and that's how

I grow my sales and it's going to be more steady less pops but that's how you can build a really big company whereas if you have seven businesses which are like the most common thing I see um you're end up just going to be split thin and all the products going be crap yeah and I see it all the time so when you say hey I'm a real stickler about words how does that show up we have by large solved this problem by having lots of video content and the team being able to take any

snippet from anywhere if it's appropriate to use it as you know like a caption or something like that um like LinkedIn is the only thing that I don't write right uh so captions and Linkedin are the basically things that I don't manually write but they are taken from either tweets or they are taken from videos and so that's but emails I write books I write copy I write um not add copy that's one that I don't write much but that's a problem so I'm fixing it so tell me what is the business model of these

books break it down for me cuz it's you sell them for cheap they're you spend a bunch of time on I mean the the sort of naive person could be like what are you doing yeah makes no sense uh so that's part of it is that it does make no sense um but the other part is that long term like I think that I'll die and I My Hope Is that these will still be around but but I don't think that's true isn't this the thing that sort of initiates everything else kind of gets you

yeah oh yeah yeah so from the asset perspective I write these because I really want them to be assets I want them to help a lot of people and that it like I think that anybody who reads my books can feel my intention behind what I'm trying to do like if it were just a lead magnet which is why I think it would cheapen it to describe it that way they wouldn't be bestselling books right I think they would just be lead magnets and suck and so I think the ultimate lead mag should be timeless

assets and I think that's where a lot of people mess up when they would like 99% of people will never buy anything from you and but 99% of people are what create your reputation and so I would want them to consume something that is still exceptionally valuable because they are ultimately the ones who will create the reputation you have now of course be like well you don't know them or you've never done business with them it's like yeah but the internet doesn't really deal in nuance and so yes this is the gateway drug but really

before this the gateway drug is the content and so the content is really the first thing that s consumes and we want to make that really really good um and then if they got them enough value from the content they're like maybe I'll give one of his books a shot and if they read the book and then they get way more value um then you know maybe they come into my world they show by our headquarters come to you know comp one of our you know advisory events and when you speak to people come to

the advisory events and what not what kinds of people what kinds of businesses do you recommend that the founders be writing like you do and then if if they do that what do you tell them so that they can be successful and yeah honestly I I basically try to dissuade most people from writing a book and I think that's because it's people who aren't writers who don't love writing see my book and think oh I'll do that and it just like it's the Michelangelo quook you don't understand how much work it is and you I

could already tell you if you've never written before you aren't willing to do it like I've been writing for a long time I haven't been writing as publicly from a books perspective but I have four books like it's not like I'm and before that I I loved writing you know in my I've Loved writing since I was a kid and so it's something that I I can do and can immerse myself in and really lose myself to the to the craft and a lot of people can't do that the amount of people who are entrepreneurs

who I know who are like hey man I I wrote my I wrote my book in in 12 weeks and I'm like that's amazing um but it's it's probably not that good uh and I try to like got say that mean way but it's like yeah I'm like first draft they're like yep just knocked it out I'm like that's okay you know sure good luck how you launch a book determines how good you are at marketing how well the book is selling two years later determines how good the book is is there a tactical way

that you get more Amazon reviews or is that just one of those things or yo if the book is good people are going to review it but you really can't influence it that much I'm always scared to make a review ask because my own insecurity is like well what if it sucks and they remember to leave a bad review right um but think that in some ways it's almost a liit Mis test of how confident you are about the quality of the product like if you're willing to ask everyone to leave a review then you're

really confident that people will like it and so I have a review ask in the middle of both of the books um and I figured I put it in the middle so it's like if someone got to the middle then they probably like the book like right enough to get to the middle right not on page five yeah exactly not exactly oh by the way you know like it's like I haven't given you any value yet so like no I've put it after they hopefully they've got a signic amount of value I do think that

making ask increases the likelihood that they leave review um but I think if you have a crap book then people are like no or they'll leave you a bad one which is you know arguably worse okay I don't know anything about your love for writing as a kid and I want to hear about that yeah I wrot short stories or WR poems um and I enjoyed that I enjoyed that stuff the free that's why the the literary magazine was probably where I spent like that's where I wrote L my stuff so it's all student submissions

for short stories poems um and so I so and art and art too like kids who put art so like the cover art you know we'd get a bunch of paintings and we'd be like okay which of these be the cover and then between stories and between poems we'd put other art from you know the the art Department from the kids who are you know making painting or whatever they're doing you pictures of that sculptures things like that and so we you know we do a review every week and so that that helped me get

better at writing just being able to like look at other people's writing um and so I just I enjoyed it I enjoyed that writing significantly more than everything that was assigned to me I didn't enjoy that writing and that was actually a really interesting breakthrough for me is that like I didn't like reading that much and that's not common usually writers like reading I think um I didn't even know that non-fiction was really a genre until like like after I graduated high school because everything you read in just about everything you read in high school

is fiction or a textbook right textbook suck and fiction I felt was useless and so I enjoyed making my own fiction but like think about like from a learning perspective what does this Chang about my life nothing I'm like okay some person some random land just did some thing and whatever it doesn't affect me so I never really understood the point as soon as I became an adult or whatever uh I got introduced the non-fiction and I was like oh my God this is useful and so then I got more into reading for specific purposes

but I'd still to separate that as like I was trying to learn a specific thing not analyze the writing right um and so yeah I just I really liked writing and I just it was one of the few I feel like I can get to flow really easily with writing like writing and drawing which is why all my books at lots of drawing lots of writing and I like doing my brainstorming with a a pen because I I don't know it feels more tactile I I lose myself in it more easily that that was pretty

much my experience and I did take a bit of a break from writing when I got into the business world and it was only like gosh it was probably was this like the gym launch days yeah well I wrote the gym launch book but getting I think I wrote that book in 2018 so writing the gym launch book was the first like real writing that I had done that wasn't like copy or things like like writing writing that I done and I think as soon as that happened I was like oh I missed this it's

like I forgotten how much I liked it and so then I I pretty much haven't stopped writing s last question so you get a call from UNLV they're like hey Alex we want you to teach a writing class yeah how do you structure the curriculum what are the core things that you want to teach people I'll bet you the first day I probably Define terms uh or first week I mean that would I break this into sections rather than than the sessions but like the first section would be definition of terms um the next one

would be clarifying the objective of why why are we writing what are we writing for How does writing serveice why is it even why is there why does it even matter and then I would probably transition from there to the rules of writing what are the rules of writing so there's at least as as I see it and I would probably be paring a lot of Stephen King's um on writing if I were to say but like I think that's one of the best books on writing out there as few words as possible like if

you can use a simpler word use that word um you know very sentence structure so there's a rhythm to it you know short short long you know and then from a stylistic perspective I purposely try to use uh lower grade language because I want more people to understand it I don't think there's I don't have um any ego to people thinking that I'm I also have no nothing against people who use bigger words it is like altimate word concision uses more complex words right but I want maximum comprehension rather than maximum word concision so I

use concision only as a a tool to increase comprehension uh at large yep uh so short words short sentences big promises uh this is so they have rules of writing anything else um that would be yeah that probably be the next section and I would probably practice super constrained writing for people if I was trying so if the objective of the course was to teach people to write yeah then it would be like I want you to write an entire paper on this thing in one page and really force people because I think like Twitter

I think is or X I think is a wonderful platform for learning how to write because it just you have you have to force the I you have to keep crunching the down and I think that's honestly I think X is one of the best tools for learning to write because you get fast feedback um the other one is I would probably use U like Hemingway as U because that also gives you real time feedback yeah and so typing into there is so helpful because you know Stephen King pretty much says this it's like just

don't use adverbs by large just don't use them like there's a better verb that you're not using X and Hemingway would probably be the vast majority of the remainder of the time that I had it would be repetition of them getting fast feedback on the writing that they're doing under specific constraints and I would probably have a lot more uh free like freedom in terms of topic and far less in terms of rules like you have to obey these rules but you can write whatever you want you have to do it in page or you

have to do it in half a page and you can write whatever topic you want but you have to obey these 27 rules now right because fundamentally what I'm writing for the most part I now they're like a lot more or less ingrained in how I write um but if like a section still doesn't seem good I'll paste it into heav way and be like oh that's why like and like I you know long sentences like there's just there's things that you just learn that you're like oh this might have sounded good in my head

but no one can read this and so that's get super right tactical but that's that's why we do this how I write mate it's called how I write yeah that's probably how i' like out so definition of terms uh why this matters and how how it's useful for you and I basically sell them on why they should even do this uh rules of the game and then practice and that'll probably be everything the rest would just be practice rock on well I just want to thank you because I've read a lot of your stuff consumed

many many many of your videos had a lot of questions and uh feel like you to them well but also you've been a big inspiration so thank you oh I appreciate it I'm glad they I'm hopefully they were useful and valid that was cool thank you yeah appreciate it boom okay quick thing before I bounce if you just listen to that episode and you're thinking to yourself okay I need to listen to another hght episode the one I recommend is the one with Harry dry it's all about copyrighting but it's not boring cliche copyrighting like

that LinkedIn course that you started a few months ago but never finished it's not that okay and if if you have anything to sell anything to promote in your life I recommend listening to it I think you're going to love it all right see you next time