Strategyzer Webinar: Value Proposition Canvas Best Practices

broadcast is now starting all attendees are in listen-only mode hi everybody welcome to another stretch at webinar session the you topic today is the value proposition canvas best practices we're just about two minutes away from starting so in the meantime why don't you think about what you'd hope to learn from today's session and you can share it in the questions box or the chat box in the GoToWebinar control panel or you can tweet it to us at strategize err and if you use the hashtag strategy we can follow along with you as well we'll be

starting in a couple of minutes Thanks you alright let's get started welcome everybody and welcome to another scratch out strategize or webinar session today's topic is of course value proposition canvas best practices it's been a while since we've done this topic in particular and I'm kind of excited to be doing it today as always I'm your moderator Kavya Gupta and I manage content and community at strategize err and your host is Alex Osterwalder co-founder of strategize err and co-author of best sellers business model generation and value proposition design yeah we've got an interesting session alex

is gonna talk for a little bit but what we ultimately want to do is make an expert session and Alex will do some Q&A will open it up to the webinar room and hopefully we can address some best practice challenges or even share some tips in that conversation if at any point you want to share a comment or a feedback regarding this session you can tweet us at strategize ur if you use the hashtag Stratton follow along and if you want to check out more content related to this session or other sessions check out blog

Gough strategize or calm you'll also find our webinar replaced there we're doing something a little special for this session today for those of you that don't know maybe you've seen it around the website or in our emails we do have a cloud Academy course that focuses specifically on mastering value propositions it's an extension of the one we created on mastering business models as well for this particular session we're giving an exclusive offer away to attendees and let me just run through what you're gonna get the courses themselves continue on the proven methodology that we've introduced

in our global best-selling book business model generation and now value proposition design you're gonna get over 70 bite-sized learning pieces across 13 lessons on six crucial topics and you get unlimited access to a whole range of videos in over eight hours of learning content that doesn't expire of course for completing the course you get a certificate of completion completion which allows you to differentiate yourself and stand out as a top performer for completing the course so what we're going to be doing for this session or for the attendees of this session is that if you

purchase either the vast ring value proposition design course or the mastering business models course together you can buy it separately but you can also buy them together well 15% off if you purchase in the next 48 hours if you just use the coupon code July 11 VPC I'll be sure to pass this around not only during the session but also in the follow-up email that everybody gets with the replay and of course if you're not satisfied we'll give you your money back 60 days guaranteed that's it no questions asked so I'm gonna pass the reins

over to Alex and Alex while you get set up why don't you take a moment to tell the crowd about why we chose this particular topic today so thank you cabby and the value proposition canvas I think is that we're trying to make it a very simple tool like the business small canvas but maybe it's a little bit harder than the business then the business small canvas and since we've seen a couple of maybe not best practices we thought it could be a good thing to to do this in in a session together cool so

okay great so I got my screen going I think is that is that right yep I can see it took before you go I do want to launch one poll to the audience just to gauge an understanding of where everybody is with the value proposition canvas so to everybody watching or listening and if you can access the poll I'm gonna launch it now and the question is simple how good are you at using the value proposition canvas you can select one of the following are you bad relatively weak good very good or do you think

you should be running to the webinar give you but we could have said inexperienced right but judge yourself will do the same thing at the end of the webinar after we go through best practices see if if the your statement was accurate mm-hmm well do five more seconds for the poll okay excellent I hope it's gonna hold up the connection because I'm in the mountains with them I co-author Eve yeah to work on the new book so let's see how this is gonna work out here the results how good are you using the value proposition

canvas 11% said bad forty-nine percent said relatively weak 33% said good five percent said very good and three percent said I should be running the webinar okay they can answer the questions afterwards let's see in the chat window perfect great it's back to you now okay so I just want to start with this number that I've shown in a couple of different webinars but it's pretty impressive the biggest pricing firm of the world Simon Cooper they've done a study on how many new products and service innovations succeed and it turns out 72% are flops that

means they don't deliver on expectations that is a huge number and it's one of the reasons why you know we really wanted to focus on value propositions and then also testing value propositions because I think this number doesn't have to do with people not being smart enough it's really around processes and tools that can help us be about a lot more successful with that with that launching new products and services so we've you know use these tools for now a couple of years and then what we're gonna look at specifically today comes from value proposition

design so I'm going to share a couple of the mistakes I've seen in the field and don't hesitate to ask questions we're gonna have enough time to to go a little bit back and forth if good questions come up cabbie they can type it into the question or chat window right yep absolutely okay so we're gonna look at six things actually together so first just very briefly the origins of the value proposition canvas and why we came up with it then we're going to go a little bit in the concept and best practices around the

concept people have questions you know like what's the difference between jobs be done and gains so I'll get very hands-on and very specific there and it's not a beginner session so I'm not going to explain the value proposition canvas we're gonna dive right into the deep things there I'll talk a little bit about fit between what you offer and what customers want or misfit some of the things I've seen in the field and there might be questions around this then things like starting points how do I actually get started with filling out the value proposition

canvas so once you know the concepts understand the fit a little bit well when I use it what's a good way to get started and fill this out then a very important topic that people don't focus on enough is the business model canvas and value proposition canvas fit you need a business model and a value proposition to succeed but in particular you need to understand how they work together so I'll talk a little bit about that and I'll finish at least the part where where I'm going to explain a couple of things around the topic

of testing we'll do one or two exercises that maybe some of you who are regulars in our and webinars have already have already done with me but there's a that doesn't matter it's a very short exercise so let me start with the origins of the value proposition canvas so in the first book that we wrote business model generation we really talked about the business model canvas and Beyond and how to use that and that was really about you know telling the story of how you create deliver and capture value that's what the business model canvas

done does so it's really about thinking about how you create value for your organization and that happens to include you know value propositions for customers so we thought and when I say we it was even me when we started using this a bit more often than later on we created strategize ER with Allen Smith and the idea was that people would fill out the business model canvas to explain their business model so how they create deliver and capture value what we've seen at least with couple of the beginners is that we would see business and

all canvases that looked like this where the you know middle block the value proposition block was completely overloaded with sticky notes and what we realized is that a lot of people are using the business model canvas to do something which it was not designed for to actually desire to to make explicit how they're creating value for customers but the business model canvas is not good at that because the goal was never to describe the value proposition the goal was always to describe the business model those are two different things business model canvas how do you

create value for the company create deliver and capture value the value proposition canvas is different so we thought well okay so if people are using that that's a pretty strong signal so what if we created a different tool not an evolution of the business small canvas but a tool that zooms into these boxes the customer segment and the value proposition so basically we asked well how could we you know get a bit more detailed around the customer and how could we get a bit more detailed around how we create value for the customer and the

point was not to make more boxes within a box because you know nine box is already a lot we said no this is a different tool because it's a different job to be done question is how can we better describe the customer how can we describe how we're creating value for the customer so the job to be done is to make explicit how you're creating value for the customer and that's how the value proposition canvas was born to make explicit or to tell the story of how you're creating value for customers with your products and

services so a completely different job to be done than the business model canvas and of course as a business you need to get both right how are you creating value for customers if you don't they won't come and how are you creating value for your business because if you don't you'll go bankrupt okay so you need both and then a topic that we're not going to talk about here and it's not something that strategize or focuses on most is the whole you know world-class execution and management of businesses which requires a whole other set of

tools and in more in the operational space okay so that was a little bit of the intro into how we came up with our why we came up with the value proposition canvas and that leads us to Paul to where I'm curious about your value proposition canvas usage great so we've launched the poll when was the last time you used the value proposition canvas and you can select one or more of the following was never last week last month last quarter or last year we'll let that run for about fifteen more seconds and I think

the biggest competition to using tools like this is actually not other tools it's non usage people you know sometimes prefer just having a conversation rather than you know taking the conversations and thinking out of the heads and out of the mouse and putting them making them explicit you know we believe that it's it's really a lot better to make these things explicit so you can have a share language and an explicit conversation around what you're doing alright we've closed the poll here are the responses so when was the last time you used the value proposition

canvas 25% said never 17% said last week 21% said last month 20% said last quarter and 19% said last year okay so interesting I hope those who put never actually know what the value proposition canvas is they were gonna because we're going to go into a past best practices so maybe before we dive in let me just go back here to this slide it's important to understand that in this particular tools which is different from the business model canvas the right-hand side and the left-hand side are different you do not design your customer you can

understand your customer so the circle on the right hand side is what we call the customer profile you can understand the jobs pains and gains of your customers you don't design the jobs pains and gains they have them or they don't and all you can do is understand the value map on the left hand side your value proposition that's where you make decisions you decide which pains and gains and jobs you actually focus on so very important right hand side customer profile we can understand on the left hand side is where we make the decisions

okay so let's move into the value proposition cancer concept usage so again right hand side customer profile the jobs the pains the gains left hand side the value map products and services that I have and how they create gains and how they relieve paints so what we're gonna do now is we're gonna try to switch let's so if this technically works into a couple of examples that I prepared in these strategize or app so let me jump here to a couple of the things that I prepared so what I want to look at here is

just the jobs to be done here I used you know maybe webinar listener or somebody who comes to a strategize or master class and I put three jobs to be done learn a new methodology create new value propositions and make value propositions customers want so quick question to the audience and maybe you can just type it into the chat window what do you see what's what's missing here so other than the fact that we could have a lot more sticky notes is there something you can observe we say learn a new methodology crania value propositions

make Matt value propositions customers want so if you have a couple of ideas of something that might be missing here not the pains and gains but really in jobs to be done I put into the chat window not sure if you can read them out cabbie right yep I think I'm in let's see if we have those who said they could run the webinar should probably come up with a couple of answers now would be the moment so imagine a person who wants to join this webinar or a customer wants to join this webinar or

a master class from strategizing we have these three different jobs to be done what's similar about them so one person is said that the jobs are now in the functional jobs not emotional or social exactly so that's what I wanted to hear and that you know given that we have hundreds and hundreds of listeners I was was hoping that somebody would come up with it right so there are different types of jobs to be done they're functional jobs here we have three functional ones okay I want to learn a new methodology this is a very

functional job oh why do I do that I need to create new value propositions in my role at my company and I really want to make value propositions that customers want so those are very functional jobs and in business-to-consumer we often think beyond functional jobs but even in business-to-business we should think beyond functional jobs so two important other types of jobs social jobs and emotional jobs so let me add here a additional kind of social job which might be look good with clients that is not really a functional job it's how you want to be

perceived by others okay so that's a very very very you know important job when you you are going to try to learn this new methodology you're probably also going to do it for other reasons that purely functional okay now um maybe we could put an emotional job so what could be a different emotional job here which is less about the pure functional aspect but it's less about how you're perceived by others but it's a lot more about yourself okay maybe we could put here you know feel confident in workshops so we could maybe argue well

isn't that a functional job with I'm running workshops and so but probably it's more an emotional one now let me take one maybe from the finance sector so the jobs to be done sometimes of clients of a bank who you know want to invest their money while functional functional jobs would be to get a return on their savings get a decent return a return would then be the gains but what could be a social job that a banking Clyde might have it is look good with their friends because I'm in the best bank that only

takes you know the wealthiest customers or it could be completely different an emotional job oh I want the excitement of being able to invest in startups so what's really really important is in any case business of consumer or business to business to go beyond the functional jobs and think about social jobs and emotional jobs or supporting jobs which might be more about you know purchasing support etc etc okay so let me go back and quickly into a different example actually I want to stick with that with this one first it's not a thing let me

point this out here so let's take learn a new methodology so in our master classes we often get people to fill out a customer profile and ask them to do that for a book reader okay so a book reader might have this job of learning a new methodology well the question is is that deep enough so one thing that we often see is that people don't think far enough if you're selling books or selling master classes or running online webinars you might actually say okay well learning a new methodology that's the main job to be

done but that's when you're looking at your customer through the lens of what you have to offer you're thinking about your customers jobs simply through your solution what you're offering what you really want to go what want to do is go deeper so what we often ask people is okay you won't learn a new methodology so can you tell me why this person wants to learn a new methodology well they need to create new value propositions we have that one okay so we got we went a little bit deeper why do they want to create

new value propositions well you know at my company we need to make value propositions that customers want well why do you want need to make value propositions that customers want well let you put your growth okay we need to create growth okay good why do you need to grow at your company oh it's actually not really just because my because of my company but if I create new growth that my company I'm actually going to be able to increase my yearly bonus oh so tell me why you actually want to increase your yearly bonus well

turns out I need to I want to send my kids to private school right so the job to be done here is all of a sudden pay kids tuition or to university or whatever you might have in mind so that's the kind of customer profile that you want to start to generate don't stick to the one just to the jobs up sorry don't stick just to the jobs that are closest to your solution try to go deeper and the way you go deeper is by asking why a couple of times until you get a full

picture of at least this one particular customer so not staying superficial but going deeper is very important and you could do the same thing for you know these social jobs are these emotional jobs so going deep is very very very important okay so let me switch to a slightly different example here another thing that I've prepared okay um this one understanding pains and gains so often people ask well Alex isn't you know pains and gains just the opposite you know side of the coin isn't just there or a continuum okay well let me give you

an example where that's not the case so let's take a customer of a credit-card company let's say um here's little Alex and you know one of the jobs to to be done that I have is the pain restaurants maybe I could be even more precise paying restaurants when I go out for dinner with that clients okay so your one pain is well if the credit card doesn't work with clients that's a real pain right I have anybody who's been in that situation you know doesn't matter if you're if you have enough money on that credit

card or not you just don't look very smart right and so then we can as well okay the opposite would be credit card works when I go eat with clients is that really again well probably not that's just what I expect so often when people make customer profiles in the meeting room they will have pains and gains that are just the opposite side of the coin or a continuum but once you start talking to customers they will tell you what is a real pain and what is a real game so here they'll say well you

know what credit cards work we're gonna go eat with clients that's not a game I mean that's that's just what I expect okay so can you tell me what the real game would be here then well you know the miles I get to pay family vacation that is definitely a again so it's really important to go deeper oops to go deeper just to just to us stick to what you have in the meeting room by asking your customers what are the real pains and gain so in the meeting room theoretical you will up often get

the opposite when you talk to real customers they can tell you what's the pain and what's again so don't waste time and try to get out of the building pretty quickly okay let me go to a slightly different example here jobs and gain so a big question that we often hear is Alex isn't em you know jobs and gains often the same thing so here for example you know a master class participant or webinar participant might say well one of my jobs to be done is understand the latest trends okay well good then the gain

is I understand the latest trends huh is that really the case well that's not good enough that's not deep enough so you could hear very well put one of the jobs to be done of your customers is to understand the latest trends but in the gains you'd have to be a lot more specific so what you could do is when you talk to that particular customer you will ask okay how do you know if you understand the latest trends so what if I said here wow so I'm gonna change this it's actually really about clients

I don't care that much about just understanding the latest trends but I believe I understand the latest trends when clients start to come to me with trend questions right that's how I measure success of this particular aspect oh how else do you really know if you understand the latest trends oh well when you know not being behind on Twitter so that's a way I look at understanding the latest trends if I see stuff going on in my tweet and I already know about it then I really believe I've been successful tool and understanding the latest

trends I was you know at and before all of my people that I follow on my Twitter feed so what you put here in gaines is the outcomes that customers hope to get from a job well done okay so I like calling these outcomes or how they measure success how do they know they've done this particular job here understanding the latest trends well so how do they measure success and what are the exact outcomes that they hope to achieve so it's very important to be again not just superficial understand lightest trends oh yeah understand ladies

friends that's the game no no no how do you know that and what do you really want to achieve so maybe the outcome is oh well what I really want from understanding the latest trends is new client engagements because they will come to me if I understand the latest trends so all of a sudden in that conversation you'll get the real games that somebody wants to get out of understanding the latest trends so again going deep extremely important ok so last one here what I would like to point out is that one more on the

right hand side that often we forget is to be more quantitative I'll come back to that one but I want us since I've been talking for quite a bit now I'd love cabby to launch the next poll poll before we move on cool it's up so to everybody who's watching how often have you used the value proposition canvas you can select never a handful of times a dozen times or more than a dozen times I'll run it for about another 15 to 20 seconds few more seconds all right I'm gonna close the poll now back

in a moment oh well it showed the results all right so how often have you used the value proposition canvas 24% said never 59% said a handful of times 8% said a dozen times 9% more said more than a dozen times okay excellent so I can see a couple of people who have a little bit of experience with it so I do hope the the this best practice session will will will help a little bit with getting even better at this so another topic that we see a lot is whole idea that people are not

always quantitative enough when it comes to the customer profile so you can see I'm focusing a lot of my best practice session here for the moment on the customer profile so typically you know one of the things that we might have in a and in a customer in a customer profile is a job to be done like you know shopping for groceries you know for food sometimes I got and then you asked well what are the pains related to shopping for food that you might have well I hate waiting in line okay so good um

then what are some of the gains well you know I really like fast checkout okay so you could go on with this and then and then you get a pretty nice kind of customer profile something that I miss in these kinds of customer profiles even if you have quite a few pains and gains is that they're not quantitative enough and the problem is that when you just have waiting in line or fast checkout you know that is very relative well for some people waiting in line one minute is a huge pain for other people you

know after 10 minutes that's when it starts to become at pain so when you start filling out a customer profile what I ask people to do is immediately put a number waiting in line for more than 10 minutes okay definitely a pain now people ask me I remember doing this at MasterCard and the people in the workshop were saying well we don't know why are you insisting that we put a number there and I said well that's exactly why I'm insisting because you don't know but once you have a number there other people in your

company are gonna ask how do you know it's 10 minutes so that's almost gonna force you to get out of the building and to verify what kind of number that you have there so that's important number one so people so you put numbers there but even more important why do why I actually want you to put numbers there is because otherwise you can't measure if you're creating value if you say you know okay I just decreased waiting time at my store by five minutes to twelve minutes well it's still a pain for the customer so

while we're always very good at being quantitive on the left hand side faster processor you know better design etc I mean how much faster and and all those things what we're really not very good at and what I see way too too often is people don't put numbers in the left hand side okay let me jump back quickly to the slides here we already did our fall three um I'm actually gonna skip this one it's more of an experience sharing and I'm gonna go to the starting points so here I'm trying to try to switch

and in that while I'm switching kabhi are there already some questions coming in just to know on the channel so far yep one of the ones I think we've seen a lot Alex with the companies we work with but it's also coming from the audience is you know the idea of creating a value proposition canvas or a customer profile for each customer segment or can you just address an entire business and use that as a customer segment so I'm guessing this is a b2b question okay so I threw myself curve ball by asking that because

that's later in the slides but since the question came up now I'm actually gonna go there right away and I'm gonna take a particular example so sorry that we're switching back I didn't expect this one so I'm just quickly going to go back to strategize because I prepared an example for this question which comes up a lot now I'll just say I have my iPad in front of know let me see you go here so it's a very good question huh we don't have here we go okay so here I prepared a business model canvas

for a company let me put it the other way around maybe okay start with something else back sorry so let me go back to the slide so and then get to that to the example I want to show you so I don't like it when people put an enterprise as a customer and the reason is very simple because you never sell didn't show up straight you never sell to a company you sell to customers and users in a company so if you're Microsoft and you're selling Microsoft Windows which they've now been doing for a very

long time well your customers is not other companies your customers are users those who use are they gonna pay no no those are the economic buyers that's the purchasing department oh okay so the purchasing department but who actually makes a decision on the buying well that might be the decision maker but they're also you know people who influence that decision or recommend which solution to buy which might even be a consulting firm so at the end of the day you really need to have a value proposition for each one of these different customer or user

types and I took this little diagram from Steve Blank and Bob Dorf in the startup owners manual where they make explicit that you don't actually sell to companies you sell to different users and customers and clients in a company and what they added is also the saboteurs those people in companies who might not have a direct stake in the purchasing decision but might undermine the purchase something we see often in in b2b now let's see if anybody figures this out in in in that chat window type it into the window and cavi will read out

the answers where else do we see this other than in b2b this kind of unbundling of the customer that we need to think of more than one customer so we don't sell to enterprises we sell to different customer user types where else does this apply other than in enterprise and b2b if anybody finds it out anything coming up Gaby one person has said families or households exactly that's the one I wanted I wanted you to think of so typically if you know let's take an INT end or Sony or Microsoft selling their game consoles they

don't actually sell to families and they probably don't sell to kids maybe to young adults who have the money but if they say sell to young kids they're actually you know probably selling to different user and customer types in a family so for game consoles very clear the user is always the dad the influencer are the kids the economic buyer you know I won't get into anything that will it cost me a beat here careful they're usually the mother and decision maker the mother or the father but we have to unbundle there and the different

customer and user types they're starting to kind of get off track here with trying to avoid any kind of political you know in correctness okay so I think that would would answer the question now I'd like to make here the connection back to and this is here we're actually we're in topic C in topic 5 for a second which is about the business model canvas connection with the value proposition canvas and here I want to go quickly to strategize er to jump over for this example that I prepared but now I'm not sure if I'm

showing the right screen oh we go nope so we're seeing your iPad but it's overlaid underneath it is the app yeah okay so the example I would like to talk about which I quickly started before but made more sense to start with the other topic is that a company called SC a Swedish company biggest manufacturer of hygiene projects products sorry for the misspelling their hygiene products for consumers but also for buildings so busy to business so I've seen this canvas when I was working with the teams there on a wall where they had one sticky

note for value proposition canvas and they had three sticky notes for the customer seconds bathroom users and buildings okay so they make hygiene products means that you know toilet paper installations soap dispensers etc so then they said well we have three customer segments bathroom users facilities managers and resellers and seeing that from across the room I immediately thought something's going wrong there so let's see if anybody if you can see the mistake in this particular business model canvas what's wrong here in relationship to the value proposition value propositions can be read out if you see

the answer so so far somebody has always found the answer of our almost thousand listeners and buddy come up with the answer what's the problem here nobody nothing nobody okay so I walked over to this team and then ask them well okay so you're telling me you have three different customer segments and it's the same value proposition for each one of them they say yeah well Alex can't you see that's what we put there we put them the sticky note stuff is okay okay okay so let's look at this differently what are the jobs to

be done of bathroom users oh so well they they won't they go to the bathroom they won't wash their hands they want to stay healthy et cetera okay good good good okay so that's their job to be done what about facilities managers what is their job to be done Oh completely different completely different their job to be done is to you know refill the soap and and the toilet paper restock and obviously to keep the the costs as low as possible okay okay what about this third customer segment the resellers oh yeah that's again completely

different of course the resellers they just want to make as much money as they can ah okay so you just told me three different customers three substantially different jobs to be done and your value proposition how you create values exactly exactly the same thing ah so what they realized immediately is hygiene products for buildings is not a value proposition it's the product right so we could almost put on that here in the key resources and we could you know put something like stay healthy or whatever else we would want to put there or efficient you

know hand washing or quick quick drying of hands facilities managers um you know um here we put manage stock stock and cost okay different value proposition and for the third one here for the resellers we will put make money so immediately you can see here what happened in terms of best practices people didn't realize well at this level while they get it right at the value proposition canvas level because they're you're forced to make the difference these are three different value propositions for three different customer segments very important to understand and you'll you won't always

see this at the business model canvas level but you should see this at the value proposition canvas level so that brings me back to my slides very quickly see if we can show this okay so there is a very strong connection always between the business model canvas and the value proposition canvas so let's try this a slightly different way and see again if you can understand this connection well let's look at value propositions in intermediary models where you sell to the market through an intermediary oops didn't come up slide I want to show you here

okay so let's say you're a publisher like Wiley Wiley publishes amazing books like business model generation or value proposition design what if you sell you know your you sell books to readers through channels retailers like Amazon etc and you make money from book sales okay what is wrong around the value proposition and customers the way I told you this story so far so again think value propositions what did I tell you what's wrong here and then I'll get to the best practices with the value proposition chemists see if anybody can figure out what is wrong

in the way I mapped this out in terms of customer segments and value propositions and making money cabbie read it out if anybody came up with the answer one person says is making money a real value proposition no no so we have books there and of course books books per se but he's probably entertaining books I could poke to mate to make it look a little bit more like a value proposition not but not precise enough impossible to find the value proposition yeah could be so I would define that again if I say entertaining books

I'm close enough I would define the details on the value proposition canvas so there's a much bigger mistake here and this is very important to understand this was completely wrong the way I mapped it out so Wiley doesn't sell to readers they actually sell to retailers and retailers what a retailer's interested in they don't care about the books per se they care about books that sell and Wiley the publisher sells books that sell to retailers like Amazon through as Salesforce and that's where they earn money okay so what about the readers don't they have to

create value for readers yes but they don't sell directly to them indirectly so basically we still have books or entertaining books or books that make you smarter and that Wiley sells to readers through retailers so what's important to understand is when you're not selling directly to the market your intermediary is actually your customer and you have a value proposition to customers so if you take Nestle makes yogurts or any kind of you know snack maker so same model Nestle makes yogurt sells them to the end customer the consumer through retailers so they are real customer

that they sell to with the sales force is actually the retailer so what does that mean for our best practices with the value proposition canvas it means that we need to have a value proposition to the end customers and we need to have a value proposition to the intermediaries and this business model only works if I have a value proposition to both so in terms of business model and value proposition best practices people often focus on one value proposition forgetting that there are other value propositions in their business model that are just as important it's

a little bit like the question well okay do I sell to enterprises no you sell to several customers in the enterprise here different do I sell only to consumers no you sell to retailers as well so something similar we can see in value propositions in platform models so if you have a multi-sided platform same thing so let's say it Airbnb Airbnb has two customer segments travelers and hosts and a value proposition to each okay so for the travelers there's a value proposition that we could explain explicitly and to the hosts there is a value proposition

that we can explain explicitly and we need both in a double-sided market like this in a platform model to make it work okay so that was a little bit for the business model fit I'll just show you one more thing that I haven't shown here in terms of business model fit one more thing that I want you understand the connection between business small canvas and value proposition canvas is important if you change your value proposition it's going to change your business model so then often people ask well in the process do I start with the

value proposition or the business model it doesn't matter you're basically iterating between both you change your value proposition maybe you have to change something in your key resources or the way you sell you sell to a new customer a new value proposition oh probably you're gonna have to change your business model as well a good example of that that we like to use is the company healty that makes machine tools used to make just machine tools for builders that old manufacturing business model that expired they came up with a new value proposition in the value

proposition canvas which was more service oriented but obviously moving towards services moving away from just selling products had a huge impact than on the business model so you want to integrate that second loop I think my slides just broke down no here we go that changes the business model so sorry about that but fast because this animation broke down you change the value proposition that will have an impact on the business model so you always need to think of both I'm navigating between both business model canvas and value proposition chemists okay so let me jump

back since we didn't actually start talk about the starting points and I do quickly want to get into that because we often have questions around that maybe we have one or two more minutes for for whoops sorry for that for questions so often when people start mapping out a customer profile they say they ask well do we first need to do just kind of brainstorming of all of these custom of these jobs to be done and then we take each job and come up with some gains and we come up with some pains is that

the right way to do it or even you know differently should I start with one job to be done ask what are the pains related to that then ask what games related to that maybe I come up with more here start making them quantitative or not which one's the right way of doing it or could I even take a third you know way where I don't think about the connections at all and I just say oh you're all they just brainstorm wildly left and right with a team coming up with either frankly it's just a

matter of preference you can start like this systematically one after the other you could come up with a couple of jobs and then move to pains and gains or you could just wildly brainstorm and then we maybe even go back to another mode at the end of the day it doesn't really matter you just need to fill out that customer profile and then get out of the building in any case to go and start test that from best practice we see that it can actually take up to 45 minutes to make a good customer profile

and then only would I move to asking you know how are you creating value with your value proposition with your value map with the products and services and how they address some of the pains and gains so big one here that we kind of skipped that misfit part what's important often is people do this exercise they come up with jobs pains and gains good they've done that maybe they even go and test it and then they come up with products and services pain relievers and game creators but what they've never done is draw the connection

between which pains and gains are you actually addressing and another question that often comes up can a pain reliever also create gains yes for sure but what's important is that we make this connection this fit we make this fit between what you're offering and what the cost actually cares about we make that explicit another important aspect to this is that here you will have many sticky notes because it's really about a deep understanding of the customer understanding on the left-hand side you have few sticky notes because it's all about choices it's about making explicit which

jobs pains and gains do you actually focus on is really about being very precise because the best value propositions they address few jobs pains and gains but they do that extremely well okay I think I'm going to stop here we went through a couple of things probably more if there are more questions we can definitely also maybe do a blog post on this cavi any other questions that came up yep we definitely have some I think one of the ones that I'm seeing frequently in the questions box is if you have any insights into how

long it takes to get deep with a customer on jobs pains and gains you know how much is too much and how much can you end up becoming lost in just applying stickies all the time yeah so I would almost start differently and say you know what what if you first came up in the meeting room with a rough idea of how you want to create value for customers you have an idea here for a product and service or bundle of products and services and you figured out that could be interesting because I'm addressing these

jobs pains and gains okay the next thing you ask is here we're getting into testing okay so for this value proposition to work what needs to be true for this value proposition to actually work and first you would ask yourself which jobs paying and gains really matter for this value proposition to work and that will basically give you the hypothesis that you should be testing so I don't think it's a good idea to go to customers and just talk to try to figure out all jobs pains and gains you should have this starting point some

rough idea around jobs pains and gains that allows you to go into the customer interview and start validating from the jobs pains and gains that you thought might be there and would be important for you to be able to launch your value proposition so an hour is usually what you get if you have more time from customers fine usually you get even less depending on the kind of context and type of customer so you want to use that time extremely well and I've seen way too many people go into customer interviews without knowing exactly which

hypothesis to test now you might be completely wrong and after five interviews you say well that that didn't work out it was all wrong but that's okay you learned but you should never go unprepared without an idea of what you hope to learn you should always go into a customer interview with a series of most important most critical hypotheses that you want to test so rather than asking how deep do you want to go on jobs pains and gains is which areas do you need to explore most because that needs to be true for an

idea to work so I'd say you usually get 30 to 60 minutes use that very well too many people get lost in things that don't matter or they ask people about opinions rather than concrete facts cool let's do one last one then we'll start winding it down um I think the audience is curious to know what's one of your favorite ways to gather jobs pains and games on the value proposition canvas so um to gather them well first just kind of get them out there in the in the meeting room but then you know doing

an interview and and figuring out okay which which jobs pains and gains actually really exist that's step number one you know are they true do they exist in the real world oh this one you know didn't exist this one exists this one didn't exist this one exists fine that's the first thing but then what I really like is as a next step and this is something people don't do enough is okay you had five sticky notes here or five things that actually you just realize customers really have those jobs pains and gains well that doesn't

mean you understand which ones are really important so what I really like to do is once we've figured out which jobs pains and gains customers really have is to use card sorting and we have a blog post around card sort so if you google card sort and maybe cavi connect and that post that later in the email as well and I give customers cards a card deck with visuals of the jobs pains and gains and then ask them to prioritize those who put the most important on top and the least important at the bottom and

then you start to see pattern when you do that with ten twenty fifty customers and you can have conversations so you don't you know the end of the day the conversation is important but what we really need to do is get to a prioritization in the customers eyes because often I see customer profiles where there's no understanding of ok what are the most important jobs and what are the biggest pains and what are the biggest gains people don't always have an understanding of that and then obviously it's very hard to make choices around your value

proposition awesome thanks so much Alex we are running out of time now so I'm gonna wind things down Alex of course thank you for running another session with us and to everybody who's watching or listening we will provide a recording after this session you'll find it in your inbox within 24 hours and I'll also be sure to share select blog posts that were mentioned in this talk today and also the link to the elusive offer to our masters bundle or the mastering value proposition design course and we're gonna sign off for now a good evening

from my side of the world and good afternoon or good morning from wherever else you are thank you for joining us Alex thank you thanks Gary have a good one everybody