Joe Rogan Experience #2251 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day well Governor Perry thank you very much for being here it's a it's a pleasure and honor to meet you and uh Brian would you explain your relationship and how you guys know each other and I had a public service career in the state of Kentucky and the last stent of it involved my role as the chairman and executive Ive director of the Kentucky opioid abatement advisory commission within that role I designed for what by lack a

better term was the Kentucky Abate initiative the state had received $842 million in settlements that'll be paid out over the next 15 years by opioid Distributors and manufacturers for their role in the creation and perpetuation of the opioid epidemic and as the Kentucky iag game project was developed and executed I was introduced to Governor Perry as someone who was a Believer and advocate in the medicine he and I developed uh professional relationship he was a vocal supporter and participant in the initiative itself he appeared by video to give a testimonial about the immense potential around

the development of abigan and he also was so wonderfully helpful as to procure an oped in Newsweek magazine in October of last year endorsing the initiative he has been a tremendous supporter mentor and I am privileged to call him my friend and Governor how did you get involved in this it's kind of a long story so uh we got the time if you don't mind I'll just take you back 2006 uh my wife made me go on vacation which I don't necessarily do very good because I little bit of ADHD and uh vacations are sitting

on the beach some plac is not high on my list of good things to do but uh anyway I went with her and she took me to uh carata Island and the hotel Dell uh which was a fascinatingly interesting place but my security detail went out early and they were stopped there I think on on Orange um and uh Orange Drive the little breakfast nook and they walked in where they were supposed to meet the California Highway Patrol uh to do our advance and there was this big guy looked about like you all buff and

slicked off head and pretty healthy looking boy and they thought that was the patrol one they were supposed to meet that went over introduced themselves and said are you here to uh meet Governor Perry and a guy went no but I vote for him every chance I get and this kid happened to be a jtac with SE Team 5 uh who was a farmer or was an F18 driver who was assigned to Seal Team 5 to go out on their next assignment and um they just met him by the grace of God and the kid

gave him his card and said hey if the governor would like to go on a tour of the special Warfare Center love to give him a tour well the detail shows up next day says hey we met this kid and that's right down my alley right I rather than sitting on the beach take me over and show me what the special Warfare Center does and on a Saturday morning we went over got that tour and this young man led the tour and he had a big old tall drink water with him in his cams and

that assisted with the tour took about 3 hours to finish this tour we finish it and this young man says did Marcus tell you where he was last weekend I said no he said yes sir once and no sir once he said well he was at the White House receiving the Navy cross I know what the Navy cross is and um I went back to the hotel room looked it up on my computer there's no mention of this Marcus Latrell anywhere on my computer and uh we had asked them to go have dinner with us

the uh that night just to say thank you for their time and what have you and that evening as we get back to the restaurant friend is asking him all questions about what was it that he did and the during the conversation operation Redwing came up in the and we finished dinner I tell them I said look give me your mom's phone number I'll call her when we get back to to Texas and if you're ever through Austin come by and see me right which I would tell to I probably told hundreds of people Joe

um if if we had known each other in those days I said Hey Joe if you ever threw Austin come by and see me fat chance you're going to come and knock on the door of the governor's mansion right can't do it so it's a nice thing to say but realizing that they're not going to show up well I went back looked up operation Redwing and that's when my computer kind of blew up and I figured out who this young man was and you remember in 2006 nobody had heard of this didn't know who Marcus

Latrell was what have you so go on about our business they leave they deploy go back to Iraq with his twin brother Morgan I might add he Morgan and Marcus they deployed together on that and the young man who led that that tour that day was a lieutenant commander in the Navy F-18 pilot by the name of Jake El Jake Elie is now a member of Congress uh so incredible small world uh for me that started totally by the grace of God of meeting these boys in carada island and I called his mom when I

got back to Austin said hey saw your son he's doing all right and if I can never help you let me know went on a about my business that was in August of 06 the following May of ' 07 the phone rang in the governor's mansion the security details said there's a young man down here who said you told him the next time he was through Austin Texas come by and see you and he's here I said I said that's hilarious I said what's his name and Marcus Latrell I said yeah I told him that

well send him in that was in May of ' 07 and he lived with us for the next two and a half years in August of ' 09 he left and that's what started me and my wife on this long journey this adventure that has taken me to sitting at Joe Rogan's table talking about veterans mental health we've been down literally dozens of rabbit Trails um Frank Al the the bulk of them they were interesting but they really didn't bring any relief didn't bring any help uh we learned about the Brokenness of our government's ability

to help these young men and women I mean Marcus literally was separated from the uh the Navy uh without the ability to have TR care even he the only place he could get his healthc care Joe was at the VA and he had to have some very specific uh surgeries on his back highly technical surgeries and I told him I said I'm not going to let you go to the VA and have that done no offense but I said I'll go raise the money and find somebody that we can get you the type of help

that you need and I went to Houston I talked to a doctor there Stan Jones uh who's the uh chief medical officer for a stem cell company now called celex uh but he had heard of Marcus by then Marcus's book had come out uh I think in in O when it came out and went to number one on the New York Times bestseller list so people started to know who Marcus Latrell was knew his story and we were able to to get him uh the medical help that he needed I also intervened at that time

with the secretary of the Navy Ray Maus and I call Ry Ry was the former governor of Mississippi so I knew him through that uh that role and I told him I said here's what I've got and I said this kid is a legit American hero and I said our government's just completely dropped the ball on being able to take care of him and I said I don't want to embarrass your boss but I said you need to get this kid back in re-evaluate him get him uh not fit for Duty so he can get

eligible for tri care of which they did and my hats off to him for doing that and doing it it just took the the sadness of all of this Joe from my perspective is Marcus L Trail was just fortunate in a lot of different ways that by the grace of God he met a governor a guy that could actually intervene and make a difference there's literally thousands thousands of young men and women out there today who have mental health issues that don't know a governor don't have anybody to help and that's why I've spent however

many years that's been 17 years helping being open uh to all the different ways uh that we could help these young men and women uh back in ' 07 I helped create a a foundation that uh buys homes it's called Uh military Heroes support foundation and um they've given away a thousand homes now George Straight gives away one of their homes at every one of his concerts um but even if you are living in a great home if you're a mansion and your mind's not where it needs to be you're just a you're just a

lonely person a sad person a broken person in a beautiful home but I become a complete believer in plant medicine uh over the course of the last five or six years in particular and uh the compound Iain i b o g a i n e that most people never heard of before uh that's good and bad because uh it doesn't have a bad WP because nobody's heard of it before my job and our job is to be able to educate the public about this plant medicine this psychoactive plant medicine that absolutely is showing stunning ability

to bring people back to normaly to reset their brains to literally give them their lives back um I've made the decision that that's what I'm going to do for the rest of my however many years I got left this is where I want to spend the bulk of my time telling people about it explaining to people how this you know conservative right-wing knuckle Dragon Republican Governor became a spokesperson willing to go publicly talk about this plant medicine that literally the data is I mean I I think the data is you you can't argue with the

data U we'll we'll talk about a clinical trial that uh they did out of Stanford this last year but that's how I went from basically being a guy that wasn't even open to having a conversation about in 2013 I got talked into talking to a mother who had a son who's an epileptic and she said the only thing that we can give our son that's relieved him of this is is THC and I was against any of the the use of marijuana medical or otherwise in 2013 that mother came and sat down to me I

looked at the data I listened to her powerful story and we passed in Texas medical use of of THC for the cases of um epilepsy and that's my point with all of this is that I'll never be for I know you know may not agree on this I'm not for the legalization of drugs I love Rick doblin Rick and I have been on multiple stages together uh a lot of the works that he did at Maps is I'm big supporter of and I tell him I said but I'm not going to get there on the

legalization of drugs I'm just not and and I don't want to get that confused with what we're doing here this is medically diagnosed medically dosed having the proper medical people there uh the treatment uh the followup all of that and that's one of the reasons that I think that our our government and thank God Donald Trump won I'm I'm I'm very open about this that Donald Trump won this election he's putting people into place that are open to plant medicine being used for our veterans mental health and so I know I've covered a pretty broad

U piece of of of landscape and all of that that I've just talked about but that's how I got here over a 177e period of time I went from an absolute don't even talk to me about these drugs to being the Johnny apple seed of Iain today uh where you know my wife probably gets tired of going places with me and I and the next thing she knows I'm talking to somebody about plant-based medicine and what I've seen and why we as Society need to be really pushing this talking to our congressmen talking to our

Senators talking to the people that are decision makers and the private sector educating the public about this so that they know that there is help out there and when you add to this the clear evidence that this works on addictions uh and we're talking across the board then the populations that could be affected in a powerful in a positive way is substantial and I you know that's what God put us on this Earth for is to be good servants and this I believe has the most powerful way to affect the most people in a positive

way of anything that I've ever seen in my public service my 40 Years of public service so um I am committed to it I'm completely and absolutely convinced that the data will back up what we're talking about and we'll visit about this clinical trial I'm sure in the next couple hours all right folks it's that time of year everyone is on a mission to improve their health and wellness habits and set the tone for 2025 by sticking to a routine and while sticking to a healthy routine isn't always easy it's so worth it and you

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it's a great introduction to people that don't understand the concept of plant medicine because ibigan is one of those drugs that is not a party drug no one uses it recreationally it has no there's there's no potential whatsoever for addiction to that drug and a matter of fact it actually cures addiction somehow or another it rewires the brain yeah and do you know how uh ibaan was introduced into the Zeitgeist I don't it was that Hunter Thompson Jo you you gave it no Hunter S Thompson in the 1970s when uh it was Ed musky and

George McGovern when McGovern was uh running for president when uh during the primaries he he spread this rumor that musky was addicted to ibigan that he had a Brazilian witch doctor come to visit him and it tanked uh musk's political career I thought fake news was a new thing no no no Hunter S Thompson was the beginning of fake news well he called it Gonzo journalism you know and what he would do is just mix in a bunch of very obviously fake things along with real things but he was on the Dick Cavit show see

if you can find that clip it's actually pretty funny that's hilarious this is him on the I mean he literally decided to tank This Guy's political career by making up a rumor about him people really believe that musky was eating iing I never said he was I said there was a rumor in Milwaukee that he was which was true and I started the rumor in Milwaukee finally said well you made it all up I couldn't believe people really believe that musky was eating e yeah this just repeat itself over and over but yeah it's in

the Gonzo the documentary goes into in depth he just decided that the guy was a big phony and so he made up the story about the guy being addicted to ibigan of all drugs which is kind of crazy and so that's how the public got introduced to ibigan yeah schedule one says that there is no medical purpose for this compound whatever it might be yeah and that it's addictive and Iain is neither of those clearly evidence if there's as a matter of fact if there was a definition of a compound that was not schedule one

ibigan would be uh the top of the list most likely yes but yet it's schedule one yeah yet yeah and and I think for the purpose of educating the public we go back and understand the early 70s what Nixon uh was using these compounds for for a political purpose and he gathered them all up swept them all up and put everything thing under schedule one so he could go after his political enemies yes using these compounds as the uh vehicle to to do that yeah and for the last 50 plus years people have been imprisoned

by that and that's that's a a giant problem for particularly for veterans which is I think the most uh important use of these things because it's going to Open Eyes to people that would never never consider the the concept of plant medicine or psychedelics they would they would never consider it but people are so most people are so compassionate about the needs of veterans the demands that they face and the trials that they face when they return the the mental struggles the amount of suicides the amount of addictions it's overwhelming and they don't get any

support and people are kind of desperate and that's what opens up the door to people considering things like yourself considering things that would not have normal normally entered into to your landscape yeah uh you you look at uh you you you look at the history of of how I got there and uh you know I'm I grew up on a dry land cotton Farm about as conservative part of the world as you could be I went to school at Texas A&M I wanted to be a pilot in the United States Air Force I mean drugs

were absolutely not anything that I wanted to have anything to do with because at that particularly point in time in the early 70s and in the mid '70s uh we got drug tested on a monthly basis um no notice drug testing you go pee in a in a bottle and they test you and if there was one time that you didn't pass that drug test uh you were done and and so the Fear Factor of of drugs was driven into US you go forward with the uh you know the the political messaging through through those

years your brain on drugs the just say no to drugs I mean and on the one hand that's a good message on the other hand when they're used just for political purposes and you put compounds on schedule one like abigan and it can't even be used for clinical trials it can't be uh medically used to see is there some good that can come out of this and the fascinating thing for me Joe is that Mexico this is a a compound that can be used Canada I think Australia France I mean there's a host of countries

around the world that allow for ibigan to be used for you know clinical trials and for medical purposes yet we're sitting here with 20 plus veterans a day killing themselves yet we have a compound that clearly the data clearly the data shows that this compound appropriately used and appropriately overseen can absolutely change lives and save lives and and and for me to be able to to know that and and and then still see government say no we're not interested is really frustrating and it's why I'm so excited about you know Bobby Kennedy uh you know

Jay bachara um Dr Oz mean Nolan Williams individuals who may come into this administration at some very high levels um that are supportive of plant medicine so I think we've got this great opportunity we've been given this gift and I hope you know you got members of Congress that are supportive of this on both sides of the aisle this isn't a partisan issue of any sense of imagination so I'm I'm really excited about the potential of being able to get clinical trials done move this off of schedule one into worst case scenario schedule two even

schedule three so that we get the broad amount of Trials done so that people who have questions about it those can be answered and they can see the data I mean we we'll talk about this clinical trial out of Stanford that is just stunning results well let's talk about that like when when was that perform Brian you you want to hit that one or you want me to take it I don't mind to take it um in 2018 Brian pull that microphone up to your face a little bit there you go how's that perfect all

right in 2018 and individuals by the name of Amber and Marcus Capone founded an organization called vets veterans exploring Treatment Solutions Marcus Capone had been a special operator and he had done multiple tours in both Afghanistan and Iraq when he came home finally from war Amber described an individual Who Bore no resemblance to the man that she married he came home as a severely traumatized individual idual and was met by a system which could not in any way effectively address the nature of his trauma recognizing that his life was at stake as well as the

future of her family she became desperate and went online and discovered the existence of a compound called abigan she made arrangements for Marcus to receive treatment from an individual by the name of Martine palanco who operated uh a Clin iCal operation called Mission within Amber as a last shot at saving her family sent him to Mexico to receive abag gain treatment she said when he returned he came back as the man she remembered Maran before he ever went to war as they learned about other friends of theirs who were coming back home with similar circumstances

on the verge of familial dissolution with Marcus and his friendss at the verge of suicide they began just as a friend group to put money together to send their close circle of individuals down to receive this treatment they came together to form vets and since 2018 over 1,000 veterans have traveled to the ambio clinic South of Tiana to receive iig gain treatment for symptoms of traumatic brain injury and post-traumatic stress disorder because of the miraculous outcomes which were endorsed by the veterans who were receiving this treatment a group of philanthropists funded a study out of

Stanford University which was led by Dr Nolan Williams and over the course of several years a cohort of 30 veterans were evaluated before and after iag treatment they were evaluated comprehensively through the administration of a battery of psychological tests to quantify the nature and of their symptoms they underwent pre and post- treatment MRI scans these scans were compared against a database which had been compiled of hundreds of thousands of healthy adult brains covering the human lifespan and through an algorithmic assessment the question was what was the physiological effect upon the human brain if any to

explain these miraculous outcomes were veterans who had been on the verge of suicide who had been Paralyzed by symptomatology associated with profound anxiety profound depression in many cases veterans who were prescribed an array of habituating pharmacology which ineffectively addressed their symptomatology were not just back to what they could remember been before they experienced their trauma but had been liberated from that pharmacology the results of that study are nothing short of miraculous when it comes to the way in which abigan has been revealed to have significant neuro regenerative properties that impact the human brain with profound

implications for conditions for which there are no current effective treatments specifically the white matter that covers the surface of the of our brains which is the highway across which all of our thoughts and impulses travel grew and thickened in size across the entire surface of each of these veterans brains the centers of the brain responsible for emotional regulation and executive functioning grew in size the average reversal of brain age among this cohort of 30 veterans was one and a half years with the top five among that cohort seeing a reversal of brain age of almost

5 years right now there are individuals who live offshore from the United States who are using abigan to effectively treat symptoms associated with multiple sclerosis lime disease and Parkinson's disease just about two weeks ago Governor Perry and I had the privilege of spending some time with a researcher who is based out of the University of zurk in swis land this researcher has developed a protocol for the treatment of Parkinson's symptoms with abigan we had the privilege of visiting with one of his patients who wishes to remain anonymous as well as a family member of this

patient we were shown a video whereby this individual had developed Parkinson's disease at the age of 41 it had Advanced so aggressively that by age 51 this gentleman was completely bed fast as a last resort he underwent an invasive intracranial surgical procedure called deep brain stimulation where they drilled holes through his skull and implanted electrodes which were designed to stimulate the production of what is called gon neurotropic growth factor which essentially stimulates the dopamine receptors to produce dopamine the absence of which is implicated in the development of Parkinson's disease and while this gentleman was no

longer bedfast he was not able to volitionally control his bodily movements the video that we saw demonstrated his attempts to stand and walk and the ability to walk was non-existent after uh he had undergone the deep brain stimulation he signed up for euthanasia services in the country in which he lives because it is legal and he was at the end of his rope he underwent a 4-week course of upward titration with low dose iag again that did not produce a psychoactive experience and at the end of those four weeks that gentleman was able to stand

walk and function as a normal human being the outcome is nothing short of miraculous his mother said that he rode his bike uh every day now I mean I'm telling you Joe this is the most stunning I mean it's a short video I get it it's anecdotal but for my purposes it was just backing up what we have seen and what we've learned about how IA gain now the treatments down in Mexico are flood doses this was a micro doing that they did over there but again it gets to my point of this is exactly

why we as the United States and with our medical um you know capacity in this country need to be doing this type of of clinical trial so that we we find out is this really what we think it is and if it is this needs to be widespread uh treatment for Ms for Parkinson's for addictions for PTSD for traumatic brain injury I mean I think we're on the cusp of some extraordinary medical breakthroughs because of this compound ibag gain Dr Williams has said and I agree that iag is the most sophis Med sophisticated medication on

the planet the results of that Stanford study were published in a top five medical research Journal called nature medicine on January 5th 20124 an organization called the brain and behavioral Research Foundation named the that study as its number two study in terms of neuroarm techology in the world for the year 2024 I have become convinced that any system which maintains iain's criminality is in fact criminal and needs to be tore apart Brick by briak it does seem like a miraculous compound um and what's fascinating to me is that how little was known about it until

just a basically a decade or so ago it started making its way into the zist and primarily I heard about it from people my friend Ed clay uh was the first person I heard about it he he became addicted to pills he had a back injury and um he started talking about it he went to Mexico and got treated and then he wound up opening up a center in Mexico and uh since then I've known quite a few veterans mostly veterans that they've been LED there by other veterans guys who have gotten help or new

friends that had gotten help that way and sent them down there every single one of them that I've known that have come back from there has had a miraculous result it's it's almost like too good to promise it's like when you're talking about it people like oh you know there's so many people probably listening to this that are at their the end of their rope and they're hearing this like oh come on don't don't get my hopes up for this miraculous thing cuz nothing miraculous works most it's too good to be true it's probably too

good to be true right right but I I I would have said that myself until I've seen with my own eyes I've been studying this you ask a little bit more about um in 2017 I went to Washington to be the Secretary of Energy um I asked Morgan Latrell Marcus's twin brother fmer Navy SEAL was working on his PhD in brain science if he would put that on hold and come with me up to DC to work at the department of of of energy and Morgan did uh and he was over in a in a

part of the agency where we have uh oversight of all the supercomputers uh in the or the bulk of the supercomputers in the United States our National Labs have and we have some Partnerships uh with different universities University of uh uh San Francisco uh University of California San Francisco and uh a a researcher out there named Jeffrey Manley MD PhD and he was doing some studies on the brain for traumatic brain injury and they were scanning the brain using our supercomputers at the department of energy and Morgan was helping him oversee that as they were

going through it because of his obvious background and his uh study on on brain SS and what have you and that's the first time I ever heard about anyone going to Mexico to be treated with this plant medicine was through Morgan and I kind of picked it up you know in a conversation that he was having and and you know it kind of put me back on my heels a little bit and I was like Morgan you you need to be careful with that now yes sir but anyway the that that was where uh I

heard about iag gain for the first time was in probably 20 late 2017 early 2018 and then as I started educating myself about it I was curious about it does does this work and why does it work then it's led to this study Nolan Dr Nolan Williams PhD MD at Stanford oversaw the study that uh Brian just did a fabulous job of laying out there 30 vets they all had moderate to severe PTSD um they were all given a a clinical psychological exam that put them into the moderate to severe uh PTSD range some of

them had traumatic brain injury some of them had alcohol um U issues uh I think eight out of the 30 had tried to kill themselves uh I mean this was a highly overseen group that were treated and the results 88% Joe 88% of those individuals six months later had zero not a little bit better they had zero symptoms of PTSD and I talked to Nolan within a few days ago and it appears that even after a year that these symptoms are gone I mean this is stunningly powerful work and again I sound like a broken

record but this is the reason that this country needs to put this into place so that we can clinically uh trial it at various in aundry places across this country at the VA at some of our great uh medical institutions the private sector if this is what we think it is this could be the greatest the the greatest medicine brought to Mankind in history you know and it takes Someone Like You it it takes a republican straight laac guy who was a governor to when you're coming out and talking about something like this that's going

to open up a lot of people's eyes I had a political consultant uh when I first started being public about this uh a a young man in this case uh called me up and he said uh hey ay Governor I I heard you talking about this plant-based medicine and use of psychedelics for what what are you doing so you're fixing to throw away 40 Years of of building up a good conservative reputation he said you know you need to be really really careful with this what are you doing and I told him I said listen

I I I get your concern I I understand it but I said two things number one I've spent a lot of time studying this I said I've I've read I've talked to people I've been to Mexico multiple times to observe this and to see it and I said I'm convinced of of what I've seen is true and that what I've uh what I've studied and what I've I've I've gone down and and really put my arms around I said I'm convinced that this data is what it is and we need to move forward this but

I said I'll tell you what's even more important for me my reputation is not worth more than their lives and that's what drives me is that what I've seen I believe and I'm I'm willing to put my reputation on the line and I think you know when we see people like Marcus Latrell and Morgan Latrell and and other members of Congress who have been treated uh and have publicly talked about that they have been to Mexico and they've been treated margan will tell you it saved his marriage Marcus will tell you it saved his life

that's powerful stuff it's powerful stuff yeah um do you know Sean Ryan I know who he is yeah Sean Ryan had a very similar experience and you know obviously veteran Navy SEAL y um podcaster y huge podcaster it's just there's so many stories there's just it's too much to ignore and it's uh again it's veterans the people that we owe the most to that have been ignored the most and they come back with the biggest burden and there's no help for them yeah but yet there's this thing and for some as n reason from 1970

was put on a schedule one list and because of that we we can't look at it and consider it as a treatment option it's interesting what you just said how we mistreated our veterans yes and I think this is really important and Brian saw it fir hand over in Kentucky um I mean you think about I I started going down to Brooks Army Medical Center in the in the burn center down there in ' 05 when kids started coming back from IED blast and they were burned they're traumatized and my sister-in-law worked down there I'm

the governor I go down checking on some of the Texas kids who show up there and kids that for other places as well but that's where I started seeing I'd walk in the burn center and there'd be a kid with a lollipop that was an opioid and and our government started literally handing out sack fulls of opioids and patting these kids on the butt and saying you know we'll see you and we literally addicted a generation of our war fighters who got wounded both physically and mentally and the government was giving them all of these

opioids then they're masking that with alcohol and we're sitting around going gosh I wonder why Billy and Bobby killed themselves and we were the reason because the government did such a poor job of dealing with this issue uh in the mid 2000s as as we were at the you know we've been at War for 20 years now I mean when I think about the history of of of civilization has there ever been a time when a group of Warf Fighters were ever in this much Conflict for this long long a period of time I can't

think of it you go back you know all the way to the uh to prehistoric times you know we we fought Wars for short period of time then we spend a lot of time walking from one place to another you just go back into America's history and in the Revolutionary War and then the Civil War you know my grandfather was was engaged in that conflict and he wrote a book about it and he talked about walking for weeks through mud and bad conditions and then they fought for maybe 48 hours and then they spent then

you go through up into World War I spend a little bit more time in combat World War II and we started seeing people who were affected what we call it shell shocked in World War II then Vietnam came along and these young men were in Conflict for a little period we have literally had particularly our special operators the force Recon guys the Delta Force guys the Navy SEAL the Army Rangers where they literally are in combat for weeks at a time months at a time and even when they're out of direct conflict because of that

environment that they're in they're always the you know their their hormone levels you know through the roof because they're always on head on a swivel looking around is that person walking in here with the uh you know with the with the shawl on does it have a you know explosive in it I mean always on the the fear of being attacked being harmed through the roof and and that's we these kids are all a bunch of of uh guinea pigs from the standpoint of how this these trauma events affect them and our governments failed and

and I this is this is an opportunity for our government both at the federal level and in the state level and that's the reason that Brian has come to Texas to help us uh with the Texas ibigan initiative uh we're going to be introducing to the Texas legislature uh a an Initiative for clinical trial on ibaan uh I don't know all the details of it Brian's probably got a better handle on it than me from that standpoint uh but I look at this as we've been given this great gift of a parallel track with the

federal government with with these individuals that hopefully are going to be coming in at HHS at uh uh all of the under agencies that are involved there and at the same time Tex is uh going with a parallel uh legislation to both educate the public about ibigan and to to do clinical trials so that we've got the data to back up uh the education process that's going on Brian could you explain what what is the unique pathway that allows IBA gain to help people with addictions because it's it's a very unusual thing that it that

it does to people if I might provide some historical context on the reality that you have just articulated in 196 62 a heroin addict by the name of Howard lotsof whose uh Widow Norma is still living in New York City he was uh part of um an underground subculture in the early 60s known as the yippies and Howard came into contact with ibigan in 1962 and he took it out of curiosity just to see what would occur after he took it he discovered that his desire for heroin had vanished despite a 9-year hardcore dependency Howard

along with a guy by the name of Stanley Glick a gentleman by the name of Dana Bill joined also by a guy by the name of Dr Kenneth Alper for the original Pioneers who essentially engaged in a decades long process of developing observational field data which demonstrated that abigan had the unique ability to resolve physiological dependence on opioids the mechanism of action was not understood and is still not understood what is known is that the opioid dependent brain does not have the capacity to produce its own dopamine and serotonin dopamine and serotonin are our Baseline

survival chemicals they drive all of our most fundamental human instincts the drive to eat the drive to drink the drive to procreate the human body's natural physical capacity to produce dopamine at its maximum as measured in what's called nanog per deciliter is 125 nanograms per deciliter opioids produce a dopamine response of 925 nanog per deciliter exceeded only by Meth which produces a dopamine response of 1100 nanog per deciliter for for years individuals as the opioid epidemic has played out in this country uh with the detonation of oxycoton and the Appalachian Mountains in 1996 for years

we looked at this problem as one of profound moral failure by those who found themselves trapped in addiction what I learned in my roles in government was that that was completely wrong what we are seeing are the results of a profound neurochemical brain injury expressed by the shutdown of dopamine and serotonin in the brain due to opioid exposure abigan has the unique ability to restore the brain's dopamine and serotonin production to its pre opioid exposure levels within 36 to 48 Hours thereby fully resolving physiological opioid dependence with a single Administration for 80% of individuals the

first time that number goes to 9 97% with a second supportive dose wow it is extraordinary especially when we consider the the outcomes that are produced by our existing treatment system addiction currently you have two Pathways one is abstinence only and the other is what's called medication for opioid use disorder or what I refer to as opioid maintenance treatment outcome associated with abstinence treatment are essentially a rate of success of 7% and the reason for that is because it takes the brain 18 months of complete abstinence from opioids to recover its own individual dopamine and

serotonin production you have to be completely abstinent for 18 months before the brain begins to heal ibigan shortens that to 48 hours it is something that is not understood but is conrete and real one other thing is important to mention about its physiological properties abigan can produce miraculous outcomes for individuals who find themselves substance dependent its applications haven't just been successful when it comes to opioid dependency it is the only known substance to successfully treat meth dependency and we when we consider that the current Street economy the prevailing combination is fentel and meth there is

no more compelling circumstance to demand The Accelerated development of this therapeutic than the current reality of drug dependency and death in America in the risk comes with misadministration there is a significant cardiac risk which accompanies ibigan it has the propensity to prolong the Beats between the heart or what is called prolonged QT interval the fancy word for it is torsade syndrome if an individual is given abigan improperly it will slow and stop their heart and they will die this is a very serious medication and it must at all times be administered by a medical professional

with a background in Interventional Cardiology supported by a nursing team that can deliver the administration of atropine to stabilize the heart's Rhythm if it goes out of whack during the course of treatment the other important thing to know is though that risk exists it can be fully and completely mitigated by the co-administration of magnesium uh a methodology that the best practice clinics in Mexico uh I've been had the privilege of going to two the first was previously mentioned which is ambo south of Tiana and the other is called Beyond and it is in Cancun b

o n b o n d b ND yes sir both of those clinics utilize the co-administration of magnesium in order to prevent the development of torsan I explain all this to say to your audience do not under any circumstances try to order iag online for self- administration Do Not Free venture out into the world looking for any old Clinic be very careful and selective there are informational websites one is maintained violated by the name of Juliana Mulligan called intervision ibigan which has a list of providers um as I said I have been to both IO

and Beyond uh they are clinical operations that adhere to the absolute best highest standards of safety and you want to make sure if you have a family member that you're sending them to a place that recognizes that I gain is the very best possible beginning that you can give an individual to restore their lives in the aftermath of the devastation associated with addiction you want to make sure that the clinical staff com is comprised of Highly credential Physicians nurses with intensive care background and certification who are also Believers in the advancement of this particular medication

and who also have experience with it it needs to be delivered within a supportive therapeutic environment whereby you are within a community that is connected to your Humanity where you have the ability to receive services that heal your mind your body and most importantly your soul amen and it can actually be done that this is it sounds so crazy that this is illegal and it sounds so crazy that this is so beneficial and that it's taken so long that here we are in 2024 you know all the 54 years after all this stuff was made

illegal and we're still dealing with the repercussions of this political decision essentially you know by the Nixon Administration is it all right if I talk about how I came to learn about this I'm going to have to start at the beginning and I will try to be as e economical with the use of words as possible I was raised in one of Virginia's five coal mining counties Russell County Virginia Which economically and culturally is much more similar to Eastern Kentucky and Southern West Virginia than it is to any other part of Virginia I come out

of a coal mining family my grandfathers were both grade school educated my father's father stopped attending school in the third third grade my mother's father stopped attending school in the sixth both of them were underground at the age of 16 and that's where they spent 40 Years of their lives my family has been generationally devastated by profound effects of alcohol and substance abuse as well as untreated mental illness it has blighted us for as long as anyone can remember this this is the environment in which my parents grew up they married early my first memories

as a child were of screaming cussing and Chaos I can remember my grandfathers who lived incredibly difficult lives my mother's father was one of 16 had a pair of shoes give to him once a year my father's father was one of 11 neither one of them had a full set of fingers you could hear my dad's dad breathe 50 feet away from the combined effects of black lung and tuberculosis that he can contracted in the cold camp in which my father was raised when I was a young boy and I would go and visit them

each of them separately and independently would at some point pull me aside and they would say papa knows that you're scared and that you're anxious but you need to know a couple of things number one Papa loves you number two and most importantly God loves you you have a special and unique purpose to achieve with your life that has been handed to you from on high and no matter how scared you get no matter how rough you think things are if you will have faith that God will take care of you you're going to come

through just fine if my grandfathers had not provided me in those very early years with Sanctuary from that early chaos the stability of their love and an affirmation of their Spirit of of my spiritual significance the chances are if I were alive at all I certainly would not be sitting here I would be looking to people like Governor Perry and people who held jobs like I once did wondering what they were going to do to pull me out of the de I went through uh school at a time when Ronald Reagan was President and just

like the duckling to the duck he was my North Star as to what America was all about I had a very idealized version of American history and Civics education delivered to me by grade school teachers who had come of age during war war II or ladies who had been trained by those teachers coming out of a working class family my dad was a installer for the telephone company and a lineman for 40 years he had some struggles with alcohol when I was very young that he through Iron Will overcame and today he is one of

my absolute best and dear friends in this life I was raised along with my brother to recognize the benchmarks of success as becoming either a doctor or lawyer I wasn't much good by way of math or science but I could write and talk a little bit and I was also taught that law was the way in which you could defend truth justice and the American way so with Dewey I had optimism I went to undergrad and had a wonderful time and then I went to law school and by the end of that first semester with

the acquisition of significant student loan debt all of those dewy-eyed Notions had been crushed and destroyed before my very eyes at the end of the three-year legal education process I came to know one to understand that law has nothing to do with any of those things that I was raised to believe that law is often nothing other often times than the tyrants will and always so when it is used to produce predetermined manipulated outcomes in the hands of Judges who drive results based on their own individual biases predilections and preferences because I owed such debt

my first job was to just get a job and I found myself with an accidental career practicing workers compensation law in Kentucky I had the privilege of being mentored by a lady named Mary Kay Williams for one year she had managed to achieve partnership at the law firm at which we worked together but in May of 2002 tragically at the age of 33 she died as a result of a fall from her attic at her home after a Memorial Day party the next day I went into the office the senior partner called me in and

said there's no easy time to have this discussion so we're going to have it now there is a 300 case load 300 case case load that Mary Kay handled the bulk of those cases belong to Walmart stores they are a significant client to this Law Firm I don't know you but you are the one of the few Associates of which she had glowing things to say I need you to get in there and get your hands around that case load and anchor this client to this firm that touched off what was a 16-year legal career

practiceing workers compensation law across Kentucky in the years which coincided with the onset and explosion of the opioid epidemic out of Central and Southern Appalachia I traveled from one end of the state to the other representing Walmart Tyson Foods and Tennessee Valley Authority uh practicing thousands of cases over the course of those years I can remember taking the deposition of a particular individual who I would describe as representative of the of the Dynamics of the opioid epidemic this person was usually uh a middle-aged woman somewhere between the ages of uh 45 and 70 she would

have worked tirelessly her entire life usually in Eastern Kentucky working in low skill low weight jobs convenience stores Family Dollars Walmarts and she worked hard and she worked consistently and she would have been someone whose labor was a monument of Devotion to her family at some point in time she would have had a a work accident a slip and fall or a lifting injury she would make her way to either a physician or in some cases a lawyer she would undergo an evaluation and uh she would endorse the existence of pain complaints throughout her body

this person would undergo a series of diagnostic studies that failed to reveal anything that was significant certainly not enough to explain all of the pain symptoms that this person endorsed as a young lawyer I took this lady's deposition probably 30 or 40 times and I would get them to speak to their pain I would get them to speak to their debility and then I would pull out their medical records which demonstrated that CT scans MRIs Electro diagnostic studies all had failed to reveal any objective physiological explanation for their complaints of pain and been enthusiastic and

wanting to defend the very best interests of my clients I thought that I was being put on that the plan's lawyer had sat with this lady and had come up with a soab story to tell me in order to pull money out of my client's Pockets I was always always very patient and I was kind with the individual but I would say ma'am we have gone through a stack of medical records and there does not appear to be anything wrong with you and this lady would start to cry and she would say Mr hubard I'm

not a doctor and I can't tell you what's wrong with me the only thing that I can tell you is from the time I open my eyes until I go to bed I hurt from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet and I can't hardly make myself get up out of bed this person's medical treatment by the time they got to me had consisted of the application of high powered narcotic medications in response to their complaints along with habituating psychotropic medications oxycoton Xanax xlex the whole nine yards if they were not

physiologically disabled by their accident they had been physiologically disabled by the pharmacology that had been thrown at them I took this person's deposition hundreds of times and one day driving down the road it dawned on me that whether these ladies had physical symptoms which were identifiable or not they were truly genuinely experiencing profound pain which had caused significant debility that pain was not physical it was emotional and it was spiritual ual these ladies had worked lifetimes looking at a dead end and at the time that they had their work accident it was the straw that

broke the camels back for any hope they had of a future defined by dignity and autonomy and their hope had been broken and that broken hope came through as profound physical pain that was rooted within their Spirit by virtue of my connection to an expert who I had utilized to my workers compensation cases in December of 2016 I received a call from the uh member of the then administration of Governor Matt bevon and they were looking for an individual who could come in and look at the state's Social Security Disability system that's a federal program

that exists to help individuals who are disabled as a result of either physical or mental maladies and while it's a federal program it is administered by the individual state and I was asked what do you know about social security disability and I said well not much I know it and workers compensation go hand in hand and I know that Kentucky for as long as anyone can remember has a significant portion of its adult population receiving that benefit we've been second only to West Virginia for at least 30 years and they said well we're looking for

someone who can come in and evaluate the system understand how it works and understand why Kentucky has so many people receiving it it is this a job that you think that you could do and I said I don't know but I'll sure give it my best try and it's an honor to be considered I'll take it so in February of 17 I went in and began to lead ky's Social Security Disability system my first job was to understand why things were the way they were I assembled a team of U High Caliber intellects who had

years decades of policy experience with the Social Security disability program and I wrote down 19 different statistical metrics that I wish for us to evaluate around the enrollment into the Social Security Disability program as well as different socioeconomic factors which were unique to Kentucky and in October of 2017 we issued what was the very first of its kind retrospective study of the evolution of the Social Security Disability program in Kentucky covering the years 1980 through 2015 and here were some of the statistics that the highlights of that report between 1980 and 2015 ky's population grew

20% enrollment in the Social Security Disability program grew 249 per childhood enrollment now these are children who are under the age of 18 most of them come from highly impoverished backgrounds where there's very little opportunity uh to have what we can consider to be a conventional healthy childhood childhood enrollment grew 4 149% over those 35 years we paired the enrollment statistics with the state's medicate database which tracked the issuance of every single pill that was capable of habituation to the state's SSI Medicaid population between 2001 and 20 2015 the issuance of prescription opioids to adults

within the Social Security Disability system Grew 210% From 47 doses per adult to 147 doses per adult the issuance of habituating psychotropic medications to children whether it was amphetamine whether it was antidepressant anything that could create physiological dependence grew 68% from 275 doses per child to 457 doses per SSI Medicaid child my first month on the job we had the Social Security administration's Federal liaison to the state of Kentucky come in for what was called the home agency visit this was a semiannual review of the state's Social Security Disability program and the way in which

it was meeting Federal performance standards I wish that I had had a recording of this meeting when it occurred because this person gave me a gift of truth right off the bat I assembled the management team I was sitting at the end of the table and this person began by saying folks claims are down and that's bad because claims equal budget I came to learn that the social security disability program was not necessarily run primarily for the benefit of the Social Security Disability recipients it was run for the Perpetual expansion of the ssa's own bureaucracy

and that while Social Security Disability Benefits represented 16% of benefit payments within the system it consumed 45% of the agency's budget in order to get more money you must have more recipients despite the nature of those outcomes I came to also run the state's Child Support Enforcement system within that role uh it was perceived that uh the state was not delivering child support payments to Children it is the largest single anti-poverty program not just in Kentucky but in the country direct payment transfers from an obligated parent to the custodial parent it was believed that there

were a number of deadbeat dads who were just not paying the baill and what I came to find out was that those officials who were responsible for running the program and in Kentucky that was 120 individually elected County attorneys uh in fact had some systemic issues there were a cohort of County attorneys who were running that program perfectly there was another cohort that were running it with some degree of success but not necessarily at top performance and then there was another group that were running their operations horribly I discovered that within the cohort of 117

elected officials 40 of them owned their own property which they then turned around and charged the child supportment rent Child Support Program rent essentially federal and state tax dollars through rent payments were going to allow for the acquisition of private real estate Equity interest by elected officials at the county level something that was immediately ended when I came into that job Governor be lost his race for re-election in 2019 and because of some of the measures that were taken to bring accountability transparency and performance expectations to that child support program I was terminated for my

job on hour one of day one of the administration of newly elected Kentucky Governor Andy Basher I was picked up by a gentleman who is my dear friend by the name of Daniel Cameron who had been elected attorney general in 2019 he asked that I run his office of Medicaid Fraud and Abuse control a law enforcement office which investigates and prosecutes medical providers for being engaged in fraud against the state's Medicaid system this coincided with the onset of covid I brought in a deputy by the name of Matt Kleiner who was a Medicaid policy expert

and over the course of two years despite the shutdown of the state's court system we doubled the number of criminal indictments and convictions of medical providers on that system a significant portion of that case load was comprised of providers of opioid maintenance treatments who were using their clinics which were intended to help those who were struggling with opioid addiction as glorified drug dealing operations which fermented the diversion of Suboxone in every little town and county in Kentucky and it was an eye openen and experience to recognize the Predators within this universe of operation that is

supposed to be restorative and helpful to people in recovery because of the way in which I believe I had developed a reputation as a non nonsense get it done public servant the deputy attorney general at the time his name was Barry Dunn asked me if I would have any interest in running the state's opioid commission the Kentucky Legislature had set up a framework to administer what is now $1 billion in settlements from opioid Distributors and manufacturers for their role in the creation and perpetuation of the opioid epidemic while the people at home are wonderful and

beautiful many of the conditions that exist there exist because of how terribly Kentucky state government has functioned since the end of the Civil War Kentucky in many categories is first where one would wish to be last and last where folks would wish to be first it has one of the highest rates of childhood poverty in the country one of the highest rates of child abuse in the country one of the highest rates of Parental incarceration in the country one of the highest rates of child sexual abuse in the country all of the tender and material

that is necessary to create the devastation associated with the opioid epidemic Kentucky was like a drought stricken forest and oxycoton was the lightning bolt that set it on fire in 1996 like Louisiana there has been a history of systemic political corruption which has empowered the ability to produce progress for our people so when I was asked if I had an interest in doing that job I said well this is a very treacherous opportunity because with this amount of money coming in there's going to be a lot of buzzards gathered around the wagon who are ready

to pick the bones clean if y'all will let me set up this commission and run it in a way that is accessible accountable and transparent to the people of Kentucky I would be privileged to have the opportunity to do it Mr dun looked at me and said we wouldn't have it any other way I had to go through an interview process and through that process the question was asked what do we need to do with that money and I said well let's recognize that while $842 million is a tremendous sum of money to the average

year it's going to be paid to this state over 15 years at its height Purdue farmer was making a100 million a month off the sales of oxycoton this settlement represents roughly eight and a half months of oxycoton cells but we're going to be getting it over 15 years these are crumbs off the tables of glutton and we have got to make sure that this onetime nonrecurring Revenue stream is utilized for its maximum best impact to pull this state out of this travesty and I said one thing that we have got to look for is an

opportunity to develop a breakthrough therapeutic that can deliver materially better outcomes than what we are getting with our existing system our existing system is unacceptably mediocre and it is necessary if we're going to change generational Dynamics to improve upon what we have we've got to look for ky's Manhattan Project opportunity to pineer a therapeutic breakthrough for opioid addiction and I said I don't know what that is but I'm going to get to looking in 2018 I came into knowledge of the silen cyon mushroom and the way in which it has profound impacts on treatment resistant

anxiety and depression and in the case of me in particular with my family's history alcoholism and I followed developments around its research applications over the next several years I came into contact with author who goes by the pen name of Juliana Christina who wrote beautifully about her own experiences with the sasaba mushroom which help her overcome a lifetime of debility anchored in anxiety depression and a near fatal eating disorder on July the 29th 2022 I reached out to her and I said hey this is who I am I've been given this job what can you

tell me about the universe of psychedelics and whether there is anything that shows special application or impact for opioid dependency she said have you ever heard of abigan I said I had not she said I'm going to put you in touch with a woman by the name of Juliana Mulligan you tell her that I sent you and ask her to tell you her story so I reached out to Juliana told her who I was and I said tell me your story Juliana proceeded to tell me about her life with addiction as a young American Woman

she herself had been a heroin addict she had been incarcerated she had been homeless and at one point in time she moved to Colombia to teach English as a second language and while there she discovered that Colombia has open pharmacies that are unregulated she said that she was able to go into a pharmacy in Colombia and get as much of what she wanted whenever she wanted and she did and she said one morning that she woke up and looked in the mirror and she said I knew that I was going to die this was it

and I was desperate to give myself a chance to live and she said I had done every form of treatment that was known I did abstinence I did Suboxone and she said what they didn't tell me about suboxone was if you try to take yourself off of it suboxone withdrawal made my heroin withdrawal look like a cake walk it was one of the most horrific experiences I ever had in my life she said I found about this this uh ibigan called alkal this alkaloid called ibigan through online Internet research and she said what I didn't

know was that there are a number of operations that operate within the underground that don't necessarily adhere to the necessary safety practices to assure that this treatment can both be safe and effective she said I made my way to Guatemala I was in the hands of a practitioner who didn't know what they were doing and I was given double the dose that I should have received she said I went into cardiac arrest 6 times and nearly died she said I remember waking up in the Intensive Care Unit of a Guatemalan hospital and she said I

felt the best I ever felt in my entire life Juliana put me in touch with a lady by the name of Adriana curzer in New York City who at the time ran a boutique law firm called the plant medicine Law Firm Adriana and I had a brief introductory conversation I told her I said I want to learn as as much as I possibly can about ibigan I've spoken with Juliana and and this sounds too good to be true I want to know if there's any legitimacy about this and if so perhaps what the state of

Kentucky can do to move the needle on its development she said I have a Rolodex of people that I think could be helpful to you who would you like to meet I said well I don't know the names of folks around this I can just give you generally the category of folks that I would love to be able to speak with I need to know who the foremost academic and medical researchers of this compound are I need to understand U the existence of any activist organizations that would have particular cultural relevance to Kentucky a profoundly

politically conservative and religiously fundamentalist State and I said finally I need to know whether there are any philanthropists who are willing to support or who have an interest in an opportunity that may exist around iag she said all right let me get to work she said uh would you be willing to travel to New York York City if I host at a dinner party for you and I said yes but on one condition I said I work in a deeply politically conservative office and I'm pretty sure I've got some people around me who would be

ready to cut my head off if they knew that I was even sniffing around the area of psychedelics for a potential treatment I said if I come this has to be done completely confidentially and everybody must take a vile of Silence until such time as I can decide whether or not this is something to present to the office my wife and I along with one of my close friends by the name of Scott hornbuckle who was also an adviser to the commission who I brought in traveled to New York City on December 5th of 2022

on December 9th we had this dinner party I met with these individuals who had gathered the researchers the philanthropists veteran activists who had gathered around iag as well as the application of other psychedelics for the treatment of War related trauma when I got home to Kentucky on December 11th they opened up their Network works and put me in touch with Amber and Marcus Capone Dr Nolan Williams Dr Kenneth Alper and all other folks who have gathered around iag to push for its accessibility within the US medical system on January 31st of 23 I gave a

presentation to attorney general Cameron and I said I believe we have found ky's Manhattan Project opportunity and I laid out what the concrete realities are of abigan and they are three number one it resolves physiological substance dependence on an accelerated time frame in a manner that frees an individual from the physical consequences of their dependencies number two it has a profound psychological effect for the individual whereby on the back end of treatment having been physiologically restored they have a sense of ownership over their s and their future whereby they will live a life that is

defined by choice rather than compulsion and that is a fundamental quality that one must have if they are going to rebuild their life finally and most significantly many people the overwhelming majority of folks who have an ibigan experience Come Away with an affirmation that they are a spiritual being who is made in the image of an eternal Creator whose Essence is pure and unconditional love and that that creator has confered special and unique purpose on their life to be achieved when those three qualities were properly understood attorney general Cameron blessed me to lead the commission

on the exploration of setting aside $42 million5 5% of the state settlement funds to create a public private partnership whereby a drug developer would match the state's investment on the front end by assuming all legal logistical and financial risks associated with securing the FDA approval to pursue clinical research trials for the development of aagan as a breakthrough therapeutic treatment for opioid use disorder co-occurring substance use disorder and any other mental health conditions for which it demonstrated efficacy we had a high-profile public announcement on May the 31st of 2023 to announce this exploration we conducted three

very high-profile public hearings Each of which lasted about 5 hours about all aspects of abigan these hearings are available online as a formal part of the public record for anyone to view the first hearing involved the science of abigan and included the testimony of Dr Nolan Williams Dr Kenneth Alper and Dr Deborah Mash who has been a Pioneer around the development of iag's application to opioid addiction for over 30 years now we had a second public hearing which involved the testimonials of individuals who had received provided or had sent loved ones for iag treatment all

of this was done in a very high profile and public way because we wanted the people of Kentucky to understand all aspects of this opportunity it's profundity and the way it which it could transform not just the lives of their families but the future of this state that second public hearing was one of the most moving public proceedings of which I have ever been a part and I don't know how anyone could listen to those testimonials which included one from Governor Perry and Come Away with any other conclusion but that I began must be developed

as expeditiously and safely as possible for the sake of our brothers and sisters in this country the third hearing which occurred at the request of the University of Kentucky which along with Andy Basher fought this proposal every step of the way centered on the question of whether the FDA would even consider appr proven clinical trials given what was repeatedly asserted as the unacceptable level of cardiac risk associated with its application within that hearing we were able to procure the testimony of the scientist General who was in charge of control substances research at the FDA a

gentleman by the name of Dr Javier munz along with his colleague Dr Walter Dunn who set on The fda's Advisory Board of psychopharmacology I believe he still sits on there and those gentlemen after having heard the testimony as well as questioning from the University of ky's Representative which suggested that the FDA would never approve it began their testimony by saying it has been asserted that the cardiac risk associated with ibigan would disqualify it from consideration by the FDA for clinical trials that is absolutely and completely incorrect the question for iag again is not one of

the existence of risk the question is how and if that risk can be mitigated and assuming that the drug developer and demonstrate that cardiac risk can be safely mitigated and controlled there is no reason that we would not approve that clinical trial and with that the chief objection was not we had one last piece of due diligence to perform before my commission which had a membership of nine was ready to cast a deciding vote to secure the allocation of this $42 million for what was going to be a fabulous leadership opportunity for the people of

Kentucky to Pioneer an entirely New Field of biomedical research that will revolutionize how we treat not just addiction but the problems that we have all sat here and talked about already and that was the delivery of testimony from Dr Nolan Williams following the publication of his research in the journal Nature medicine about the neuro regenerative properties of abaga in the brain as applied to the veteran population with TBI and PTSD unfortunately there was an election in Kentucky in 2023 my boss attorney general Cameron ran for governor and lost Andy Basher was reelected and a new

Kentucky attorney general took office and while this new guy had gone in public and had expressed his open-minded willingness to give iag consideration uh I had briefed him individually before we had our Public Announcement in anticipation that he would take office after he won I reached out and asked if I could have an opportunity to brief him on all of the developmental energy which had gathered around this project that energy included the commitment of two significant philanthropic organizations one of which was the Jetson Foundation led by Steven and Genevie Jetson the other was the Steven

and Alexander Cohen Foundation led by Steven and Alexander Cohen and then the third was the malea Melissa Ethridge Foundation all of which made commitments to partner with Kentucky to make this come to pass we had secured the commitment of two drug developers who were willing to establish corporate presence in Kentucky and to Anchor all of their research and development activity around its Advanced therapeutic applications within that state on the cusp of success I was brought into a meeting on December 15th with the newly elected attorney general and members of his transition team and what I

thought was going to be an opportunity to explain and secure approval for the finalization of this project turned into an ambush meeting in which it was Ed that I resigned for having been an Unapologetic advocate for iaga research something that the new attorney general found highly objectionable I walked out of that meeting and was in shock and despair not over the loss of my job I was always going to be able to find another job but for the loss of the opportunity for the longsuffering people at home who deserved to have an opportunity to transform

their future with what iag gain has the potential to do for them individually and collectively and what has been a tremendously providential blessing everything that happened in Kentucky was followed by a gentleman by the name of Rex elas Mr elas is an individual who in his PRI life has been a highlevel republican campaign ad producer his firm is one of the top campaign producing ad companies for Republican candidates across the country in the country Rex has a foundation called the Reed Foundation which is named in honor of his son Reed who struggled for a decade

with opioid addiction beginning when he was a 16-year-old in high school Reed encountered plant medicine with an ey waska 5 years before he passed away Rex became a Believer imp plant medicine because of the therapeutic response Reed experienced after that exposure to iasa Rex was introduced to me ironically by Melissa Ethridge in February of 23 he showed up at every Kentucky hearing he showed up at our Public Announcement and he said whatever you need to help make this successful I available to you anytime the Reed Foundation stands for rescuing when everyone in distress because Reed

unfortunately and tragically in 2019 died of a fental overdose Rex became involved with the Kentucky movement because he believed had Reed had an opportunity to receive ibigan treatment he would be alive today when I walked out of that meeting thinking that it was all over I called Rex and I said they've killed it this is over all that work and all that effort is is is vanished he said if I can procure opportunities for you to speak to what iig can do to other elected officials across the country with whom I have relationships would you

be willing to work with my foundation so that we can attempt to preserve what has been done here and Transplant it to a state that has leadership with the vision and courage to complete the job that you have begun Joe at this point I had Stak everything that I had become by way of reput ation and by way of knowledge on this opportunity I came just as Governor Perry has to believe that this was the opportunity of a lifetime to generate tremendous progress on behalf of everyone who needs all of the restorative power that iigame

can deliver and I said this is the mission of my life and I will go anywhere I will talk to anyone and we'll do whatever is necessary to keep this alive and thank the Lord with the leadership of Governor Perry and his allly ship here we sit on the cusp of an opportunity for the State of Texas to finish the job that was begun in Kentucky and I hope and pray with all my might that that is exactly what we see happen over the course of the next five months well that's an incredible journey what

what are the steps now what are the steps that need to be taken to implement this in Texas so if you'll recall I think four years ago um mark marus and Amber were involved with Marcus and Amber Capone were involved with the passage of a uh piece of legislation in Texas dealing with psilocybin uh clinical trials there and um you know there was some concern that it was not going to it generally takes about three legislative sessions for a controversial piece of legislation to get passed in most cases we actually passed that the first body

of the Apple so to speak uh I mean Alex Dominguez who was a Democrat uh member of the State House carried it uh I helped Marcus uh Latrell came and and supported it as did Morgan and uh I think it passed 142 to8 in the state house and I think it passed the Senate without any uh opposing votes and and uh it became law uh and so we had a uh already had a record that the state of Texas the conservative red state would support uh the use of a in this case a psychedelic uh

plant medicine for the treatment of veterans so so we have this record of of already supporting this iag gain and the the challenge for us uh is to be able to educate the public about what is IBA gain how does it work what's the uh results and I think we're going to be be able to do that the show obviously is a is a good step in that direction of being able to educate the public about this extraordinary uh compound that has amazing results out there giving people their their lives back resetting their brains I

mean literally regenerating the brains uh moving away from addictions uh with one treatment I mean just some stunning results when you add Parkinson's and Ms with this then it's a this Broad broad base of being able to go out and to share with the people of the State of Texas that Texas can lead as a matter of fact our legislative session only lasts for 140 days every other year which is a great concept I wish more places would take a look at that as a way to do business but we know that we've got to

get our work done at the same time there's this parallel track going on in Washington DC uh they'll take longer it's just you you know that's a fact but Texas can lead the nation here what you started in Kentucky uh and you know we we can sit here and and and browbeat this which we won't uh about why that got killed in in Kentucky but I think the leadership of Kentucky will look over their shoulder one of these days and see that they absolutely lost a great opportunity to lead the nation uh in the recovery

of uh people who have lost their lives to opioid or to traumatic brain injury or to PTSD in some form or fashion and Texas is going to wear that mantle and I and I'm proud that Texas is going to lead that Manel uh we've got great leadership in both the house and the Senate that understand this issue uh that we're going to spend time with uh to get a piece of legislation the Texas ibaan initiative as as it's going to be known uh we look for those private sector Partners we'll look for uh most likely

the VA to be a partner in this as well uh and our University system so I I I just I'm very confident that with the proper education uh the openness of this legislature the love of our veterans that we have in the State uh that the Texas Iain initiative uh will uh become the law of the land for the State of Texas by September of 2025 that's amazing and what what's the plan in terms of how do you do you scale this out how do you start it let's assume a successful outcome within the Texas

legislature where a $50 million appropriation out of a projected 20 billion Surplus comes to pass and is signed by Governor Abbott once that occurs the very first step would be to issue a notice a fund an opportunity to solicit proposals from drug developers who have the capacity to develop abigan as a medication for opioid use disorder within that notice of fund an opportunity a drug developer will be asked to provide information related to how they would design a clinical trial how they would recruit clinical trial participants how they would go about administering ibigan in such

a way as to safely eliminate the cardiac risk so as to assure successful treatment outcomes without complication and as importantly since we are talking about the use of the people's money how the drug developer would propose to recognize the state of Texas's U Perpetual interest in any patentable intellectual property that is generated as a result of this project people in your audience should know that borine which is the generic name for brand named Suboxone sublate and other derivatives was created with a direct $2.5 million giveaway by the federal government to create the Baseline compound it

was handed over to the pharmaceutical industry each company put its own twist on it and then it proceeded to reap 100% of the return on the people's investment that cannot and will not happen around any project associated with iag gain that involves public money there has to be return on investment to the state for the purposes of building out the treatment infrastructure that is needed to to assure success ful long-term outcomes bearing in mind Iain gives a person the very best possible beginning that they can receive through physiological restoration to pursue what will still be

a very long-term and difficult recovery process that requires the delivery of long-term integration and support services that are necessary to help someone become equipped to rebuild their lives once those proposals are solicited and reviewed the drug developer that is best position to get this across the line who also demonstrates their financial capacity to match the state's development investment will be selected once selected the drug developer will assume all of the Legal Financial and logistical risks associated with getting it all the way up to the fda's approval Mark once the FDA signs off on the conduct

of clinical trials the money of the people of Texas will go to pay for the occurrence of those CL clinical trials in the state of Texas at medical facilities which are equipped with the requisite level of expertise related to cardiac intervention and cardiac support as well as uh anything and everything related to recovery for an individual who is opioid dependent the beautiful aspect of Texas as I have come to learn is the immense amount of fabulous medical expertise that exists here whether we're talking about the Texas Medical Center that is in Houston which is just

a a marvelous human accomplishment can I add something there just a second I want you to go the Texas Medical Center in Houston Texas there are more doctors nurses technicians researchers go to work there every day than any other place in the world it is that magnificent in it not only its size but its scope and its Mission um you you said some you said a mouthful there Brian when you talked about how good Texas you look at U Baylor Scott and White University of Texas Southwestern I mean we are blessed in this country to

have uh some of the greatest medical facilities uh you know teaching schools research institutions and and again Joe this kind of gets back to why this needs to be done in Texas I mean I totally biased here I'm I don't you know and I don't apologize for that but our ability to do this work to do it on a scale uh that is that is global when this happens in the state of Texas people around the world whether they're in Moscow or Beijing or wherever they may be they'll look at this and go you know

what that is something that we would like to replicate in our country and I will add one other thing and this truly is fabulous considering where things were one year and one day ago I sat down and wrote my resignation letter over this while Texas stands the opportunity to be the leader right now there are highlevel organizational efforts underway to join Texas in this endeavor within the states of Ohio Washington State Arizona which includes the involvement of outgoing US senator Kirsten Cinema who's ready to roll up her sleeves and help activists there and researchers on

the ground including Dr Su sisly who've been at this for decades uh New Mexico Missouri all of these are states in which there are uh individuals who are committed to help in Texas finish the job that was begun in Kentucky and for my people at home I'm going to use this opportunity to say that there is one incredibly Brave State Legislature who is the only elected physician to serve in the Kentucky Legislature by the name of senator Donald Douglas Senator Douglas recognizes based on his medical training what a profound opportunity this is Doctor Douglas along

with some other concerned citizens within the state of Kentucky aims to take up the gauntlet when the legislature reconvenes in January to see to it the kuy opportunity to participate in this is salvaged and I look forward to doing whatever I can to help get my people at home right alongside Texas to make this a reality this is very very encouraging it's very fantastic it really is I mean the way you've described this is so fantastic it's just so eloquent and Governor Perry what you've done is just sticking your neck out and having this profound

purpose and this desire to to accomplish this it's so it's so encouraging and it's something that I just didn't think that I was going to see and I I don't think it would have the impact if it hadn't come from a republican former Governor like yourself I mean I just don't think that people would be considering it when I first found out that you were getting interested in this involved in this I was like what what's going on Governor Perry really he's pushing for ibigan I think it's going to open up a lot of people's

eyes and it's going to allow people that have never even considered this to maybe take a second look well I certainly hope that you know regardless of anybody's politics and this isn't a Republican or a Democrat issue uh this is just a a human being issue this is about how do we take care of our and in in our case and somebody said why are you so focused on the veterans and and I said well you know it's partly the way I was raised and my father and his you know his World War II B17

tail Gunner um time and in in the uh in the in the the Air Force and him teaching me to you know you need to give back to your country and you need to give back to your state you need to get back to your community you need to find that place to go volunteer mean I was taught that by a wonderful loving uh father and mother and the going off to school serving in the Air Force you know having this heart for veterans being the commander-in-chief of the Texas forces as we we sent our

young men and women off to this war against Terror in in 2003 and being engaged with them traveling over to Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times while I was the governor and then as the Secretary of of of energy to be in their presence to know this extraordinary group of young men and women who are willing to sacrifice their lives literally for us and then when they've been wounded both physically and mentally and they come home and we did such a poor job of taking care of them of of recognizing what what we had done to

them and the lack of our ability um you know I I was I was overcome with seeing the private sector trying to help Ross barough Jr excuse me Ross bro Senor one of the greatest Patriots I ever met in my life what he did to help veterans who had been hurt during the war on terror I mean literally hundreds of young men and women who he gave uh wonderfully too uh seeing people like that and then our government failing and and for me this is I I spent 40 years in public service um you know

I think we do it pretty good in Texas by and large but we don't do it perfect I get that but what drove me and what still drives me is that we owe these young men and women everything that we can put together and if there is a treatment out there whether it's been put on schedule one or not we owe it to them to find a way to make it available to them and so the veteran Community is really special to me I love them but they're also the easiest population to go sell to

the general public so if you know this whole thing about psychedelics and what we've been taught for 60 years that they're bad they're you know stay away from them uh educating the public that the Dos is the poison and everything uh you know this is a two-edged sword here uh everything can be used for good or everything can be used for bad and what we found here in the compound of ibigan is that as you warn people about in in your remarks about don't go out there and buy it off the internet you know go

self-medicate yourself because there there's a real opportunity that it wouldn't turn out good but properly dosed properly diagnosed properly dosed properly administered properly followed up with this can be a compound that literally can change millions of lives you know at the start we're focused on Veterans because of the PTSD the traumatic brain injury the challenges that they've got but when you look at the further populations out there we work pretty hard in the state of Texas to come up with ways to uh not send people to prison we we put uh Criminal crial Justice Reform

in place in the in the early 2000s here and it was a Model A matter of fact it was the model that that President Trump used to put National Criminal Justice Reform in place to be able to uh intervene before people ever went to prison to where they would become professional criminals um and and it's that same concept here that we need to find ways to keep people out of prison to keep people off the streets in a lot of those cases Joe it's substance abuse that that got him there it's some Mental Health Challenge

that that started him down the road of of using uh either alcohol or some of these other substances and if we have at our disposal if we have here a a plant that God G God gave us that we can use and literally it appears in a lot of cases one treatment and it takes away your desire to have another drink of alcohol one treatment and and save a person like Reed else ass life because of fenel I mean if we've got that in our grasp I mean how bad you got to hate people to

not make that available to them yes and the other thing that you were talking about Brian is the profound effect that it has and the people that have experienced it where they recognize that they are truly connected to the Divine and that imagine all these downtrod and forgotten people that are just cast out of society imprisoned instead of having them continue this path if there's something that can put them on a completely different path a path of positivity a path of integration in society a path of love that we we can change the tone of

the country we can world the whole world Amen you have just hit from me what this is all about we have sat here and talked about TBI and PTSD the horrors and the cruelty of war that 20 years of conflict has put upon innocent young men and women of this country who have volunteered to go and lay their lives down for her who have to come back and beg beg for access to what can alleviate their suffering we've sat here and talked about the opioid epidemic its monstrosities the way in which it is the gravest

engineered humanitarian catastrophe to play out in this country's history all of these are symptoms of profound spiritual Affliction which is destroying the core of what the United States has always been the greatest attribute that abigan has is its ability to affirm the reality of our human Divinity we are not the result of a random accident of astrophysics and chemistry we are the images of an eternal Creator who put us here for a purpose to be able to see and perceive the Creator's Majesty as reflected most especially within us as individuals human beings who have received

the gift of love of perception of discernment and the ability to connect to the Majestic eternal love of that Creator iag gain delivers it I can attest to the fact that it delivers it my wife and I traveled to Tijana a year ago she had been on Celexa for 21 years to manage symptoms of a profound mood disorder which manifested through psychotic mood swings that have affected her since the birth of her son I have known her for 23 years and when we decided I'll back up to this if I were going to be an

advocate for this I thought that it was necessary to take my own medicine if I'm going to get out here and advocate for it I need to be brave enough to man up and to receive it and so the week after Thanksgiving of last year by deliberate choice and at the invitation of Jonathan dson and Trevor Miller I traveled down to Tiana along with my wife to receive abigan to understood what it would do my wife decided that she wished to receive it as well she is very much a left-brain rationalist and was not someone

who came to the realm of psychedelics with any degree of enthusiasm but she wanted to see if there was the potential that she could be freed of her necessity to take Alexa every day before we went down I was told that she would have to be completely selecta free for 5 days because if the SSRI was in her system it would defeat iag gain's therapeutic restoration when they told me that I was in despair because I said there is no way that I will ever be able to get her to Mexico after 5 days without

Celexa in fact if we go one day without her taking it I can't be in the house with her it is unbearable it is dangerous and it cannot happen we will not be able to make it they said we're going to give you a a regimen of supplementation to give her that will keep her stable she's going to get edgy on you but you'll get her down here Joe we went down there we received it on Tuesday evening November the 28th my wife took her last Alexa on November 23rd of 2023 and she has not

had one since before we came here we went to Beyond and we received abigan and 5 Meo DMT there as well in order to understand how each operation effectuates the safe delivery of this medication and what I can personally attest for me and for her collectively and together together abigan paired with 5 Meo DMT has been the most profound spiritual experience either of us have ever encountered I am 100% persuaded that these substances are Divine medications that are engineered from on high so that we can heal what we do to ourselves what we do to

each other and be Affirmed by the love of our creator which is eternal and Almighty amen if you believe in God you have to believe that God created these things and people are aware of these things that they're there for a purpose there is no greater gift we can give to our brothers and sisters in this Society than to affirm the love of their creator for them if that had not been affirmed for me as a child I would not be sitting here it is the single most important thing that we can do and it's

therapeutic benefits upon the physiology of the human being is another affirmation of the realities that we're sitting here talking about for the people listening is there anything that they can do to get involved to help well obviously uh from a public standpoint in the state of Texas if you have uh relationships with your State Rep your State uh Senators uh the governor uh let them know that uh you know you're spending some time learning about this and you're supportive of it um for the veterans particularly uh is to we're we're going to we're going to

be doing major outreaches into the veteran Community um at the same time that this is going on in Texas we going to be seeing a a movement across the country uh at the federal level at the Congressional level uh there's a number of the members of the of the legislature are very supportive of this um you got as I mentioned uh with the incoming uh hopefully the incoming administration of uh um president Trump uh Bobby Kennedy uh Jay bachara uh Dr Oz uh a number of folks hopefully uh you know the the rumor Factory is

that uh potentially Nolan Williams might be uh being considered for a a position in the administration as well on the mental health side of things the the there's never been a time to see the cards kind of being laid out on the table in a good way that we're going to have a win in hand here uh like we have right now so one of my you know goals is to educate the public uh there's a young lady that's going to be helping us uh here in Texas an Clair Stapleton an Clair was a farmer

CNN International reporter uh she's going to be coming in to to Texas to help with the Texas Iain initiative to educate the uh the media uh that that's that's a very important uh goal and role that we're going to be playing uh making sure that the men and women out there and in the uh you know the news business understand this uh uh this compound understand what we're going to be doing and uh so the the education of the public I I'm convinced Joe that once the general public understands what this is how it works

how it can be uh used in such a wonderful therapeutic way uh and that the lives that can be saved literally the lives that can be saved at that particular point in time then I think this becomes a bit of a no-brainer so to speak and and the general public will get behind this in a powerful way and at that particular point in time uh then it's about a question that you asked that's really important how do you structure getting the uh the treatment centers getting the people trained uh that's going to be a it's

a good problem to have uh and I look forward to working with the both the Texas uh medical community and the Texas legislature and the Texas citizenry at large uh to to deal with it we we can I'm excited about it but uh I think again it has the potential to be as profound a positive impact on the practice of medicine particularly in psychiatry in the history of either of those I agree um anything else gentlemen one thing I'd like to add from a technical perspective and then if it's all right I'll finish up with

some observations that I have come to through those years of service that we've discussed when it comes to how to do this Governor Perry and I are able to recognize the blessing of a legion of people who've been working at this for decades in obscurity and at Great risk we will be able hopefully around this project to bring all those who have labored around ibigan for years now and to draw upon their expertise as to how best to deliver what I would describe as the Platinum standard model for an ibigan based treatment and Recovery system

that maximizes all of its therapeutic benefits whether they be for substance use disorder polysubstance use disorder TBI PTSD or other degenerative conditions that have significant detrimental impact on the brain and I'll finish my part of this discussion with this we have sat here and talked about uh specific reality and the way in which public policy has impacted it and and what its potentials are to generate human progress as you know there are a variety of Faith Traditions around the world which have common themes within them those themes are often told within those Faith Traditions as

Parables what your audience has listened to with us is a parable about Contemporary American society and where we are I think most folks would agree that we find ourselves in the midst of an existential struggle for this country's survival we are living within the most beautifully Dynamic Multicultural Society which has ever existed in human history for all of our material wealth and technological prowess we are also living in a brutally dehumanizing era that is hostile to individual identity citizens are viewed as fund as fungible Revenue units who are plugged into a set of Actuarial variables

designed to reduce their lives to reasonably predictable revenue streams we find ourselves with massive government systems which enthrone themselves on the subjugation of powerless people those systems commodify problems that they are supposed to solve and they monetize sustained human misery government must be made to function honestly accountably and responsibly to the genuine needs of the American people because if it does not our society will inevitably collapse beneath the enormity of its corrupt decrepitude this is going to require a shift in Social Consciousness that is rooted in our Universal kinship as images of an eternal Creator

whose Essence is Almighty unconditional love for all of us us as your listeners hear this episode I hope that they will hope and pray for everyone who has gathered around this cause that we will be successful because if we are we will hasten the day when we can deliver good Tiding unto the meek bind up the Brokenhearted Proclaim Liberty to the captives and the open of the prison to them that are bound Lord hasten the day and thank you for the privilege of sitting with you this afternoon thank you it was my privilege thank you

sir thank you very much yes sir thank you gentlemen you're doing an amazing thing I have great hope I have great hope for this country and and more so since this election than a long time and I think with your work and your work and this new administration's openness to these ideas I think we have uh an amazing opportunity in front of us thank you very much for everything You' done thank you all right goodbye everybody [Music] [Applause] [Music]