Jack Mallers on Why Bitcoin

Jack MERS been a while man up brother well we've hung out but it's been a while like this you're like uh you're like family to me almost we've spent a Christmas together that's very cool where did you spend a Christmas together uh in Colorado yeah oh [ __ ] I remember this show this one you recorded with uh your dad no that was a different Dr different no this is where uh post divorce every other Christmas the kids are with them Mom okay and so I made the Fatal mistake the first one of not being

prepared for Christmas not having my kids and it sucked so what I did I was in the US I decided I would fly home Christmas Day flights are super cheap cuz no one wants to fly you can upgrade the business class for like £400 so Christmas Eve uh I I'd like I hit did I hit you up or hit your mom I think I hit your mom up and said I'm coming in one of them one of us yeah and so uh so yeah I turned up they made uh made me a steak and I

flew home Christmas day it was hilarious my siblings the only kid that's really into Bitcoin and my siblings Still Still and my siblings were like what type of [ __ ] Santa Claus is this Peter walks in with all of his equipment and they're like this isn't Santa Claus this Jagged Santa Claus um but it was awesome so anyway no I mean I talk to you all the time but yeah maybe the first time in a while on the Pod is that what you me yeah I'm try is that true I don't know we did

the thing in Bedford but that was different yeah that that doesn't count an actual I'm trying to please don't tell me the last time was orange B in the White House no there was the IMF one that that's the one you mean though uh let me have a look but that was in maliboo I think that was the last time that was when the fire alarm was going off yeah [ __ ] do you remember that yes of course I do yeah unfortunately Dylan's now a gatekeeper we can't get near the man that's not true

no it's good to be on and you know I love you guys and congrats on all the success thank you huge yeah huge proud of you guys thank you we uh we have uh how many shows left to go I don't know like 10 this week yeah really we got three a day man no we got two Monday we got like seven eight shows to go but it was like how how do we how do we roll it out how do we end this you know we picked the date 30th of August and so we

had a showbook with you and then we wanted to do it with Odell and it was like look I mean my ideal would have been you Odell and hodle that would have been the perfect ending but it's going to be you and Odell but you know we want you on your own let's go I'm here we finish it big week for Bitcoin man yeah well what's crazy is I mean all the rumors I think it's going to be a big week but I'm just excited to be here it feels different from the I mean I've

been every year since San Francisco um it feels feels something feels different I don't know what it is probably the leading presidential candidates keynoting that's pretty different it could be it I don't know though I don't want to put words in your mouth he's no longer the headline it's [ __ ] [ __ ] this to be my event uh yeah I mean look there is that also I think the buildup this year has has been different as well like I mean whether or not you like ETFs you have Larry Frink on side it's like

all the Elite key players are on side and it just feels like we're we're beyond that point now of if it works does it work like I feel like we're in a very good place yeah I think of my but I think um there's the probably the most civil unrest economic civil unrest in a while at least since ' 08 obviously um but' 08 was a financial crisis this is civil unrest around Concepts like inflation MH and you're seeing gold trading bullish in the face of a hawkish Fed I mean you're seeing the worst bond

market ever or at least since the mid- 1800s which if you count that far I mean that so yes I think we're living in a very unique time you're saying debt to GDP in America go from 30% to 13% Global debt to GDP well over 300% and now you're seeing rumors of senators and potential presidents or former presidents embracing Bitcoin so yeah I think it feels different because the world is now realizing uh the issues that we have to face and bitcoin's Main stage no pun intended well we had Preston pish and Luke growman here

the other day and we were talking about the bonds with them and when you start to think about long duration Bond I mean there's no 30-year bond anymore no one gives a [ __ ] about that but if you think about it as rationally as you can I mean I would buy Bitcoin over a bond any day but I understand some people with dollars even with Bitcoin would hold some shorter duration bonds just yeah for whatever reason I mean tether they're buying bonds they're not just buying Bitcoin but if you really think if you're going

to put your money in one place if really understand Bitcoin for 30 years you going to be a bond of Bitcoin it's like generational wealth changing for 30 years in Bitcoin um yeah I mean look I think no matter what Financial Market you look at like the S&P year-over year up Bitcoin year-over year up gold year-over year up uh what does that tell you is like not a lot of confidence in the future of fiat currency everyone's pricing in currency de basement right so it's the collective Market is telling us that the future is in

hard scarce assets not in government currency and whatever like deficits are a problem debt to GDP is a problem growth's a problem rates are a problem um but the point is that the Market's not buying it this time around and everyone seems to be collectively terrified Like Larry Fink and I are on the same page probably for the first time ever right so yeah 100% I think the narrative is pretty clear and uh they're going to have to print at some point point I mean they're already printing right I think people get too fixated on

the cost of capital as opposed to the amount of capital like the cost of capital being rates the cost of money you know it doesn't matter where rates are as long as they continue to expand credit Capital right and so they are printing maybe not through rates but through swap lines Bank term funding programs and we are living through inflationary times even if rates are at 5 plus percent and and uh yeah assets winning bitcoin's the best performing asset of all time well and the whole Larry Larry think thing for me is fascinating because it's

you know at a time you can consider it oh Larry fing just wants to have black rock to have an ETF because they can earn the fees on it but I think it's more than that I think they know what's coming they themselves need Bitcoin their clients need Bitcoin I think if presidential candidates are looking at Bitcoin they need Bitcoin it's it's that kind of game theories out that every one kind of needs Bitcoin now yeah listen I so I like the global debt to GDP is my favorite metric because what it tells you so

money is our time and energy in an abstracted form right what I mean by that is you guys do this podcast in exchange for money someone mows a lawn in exchange for money fixes a winshield in exchange for money bags groceries in exchange for money and so it is our contributions to societ our time our energy captured in an abstracted form for a government to take out debt or borrow money is B borrowing our time and energy so I think government debt is the closest thing we've ever seen to time travel because you're borrowing the

collective populace time and energy from the future how do you time travel well we haven't figured that out yet but how do you get close is you borrow human time and energy from the future and so by looking at Global debt you can see how much time and energy from the human population and its future have been borrowed and then if you look at the growth which is what that metric tells us is how is that time and energy they're borrowing being invested and their ability to pay that back and with global debt to GDP

at over 300% it means they've borrowed a lot of our future and a lot of our time and energy with no way to pay it back and what everyone's realizing is that loss has to be realized so there is a loss governments have borrowed our time and energy in my opinion arguably maliciously so without permission and they don't know how to pay it back and so we I think everyone including Larry fin now even is looking around the room and like who's realizing that loss who's time and energy is going towards paying that back and

Bitcoin is arguably the first exit door we've ever had accessible to us all it's a casting vote to say I don't know the answer but it's not going to be my time and energy and I think everyone's speculation is currency debasement is the way out for government is you can steal the time and energy of everyone alive today everyone holding US Dollars by printing more of them and you can fill that hole you can realize that loss by printing right and I think Bitcoin is the best expression of currency debasement so if you want to

protect yourself you buy Bitcoin if you want a put option on the bond market you buy Bitcoin if you want to be long volatility if you want to be long chaos if you want to monetize this problem if you want to monetize and make money in benefit from the issues government has caused Bitcoin is that and I think everyone between Larry thinkink to president pelly to dorsy to sailor to now potentially Trump right that's what I think is happening is there's so I love that Global debt to GDP to I to Danny to everyone right

it's the first time there's ever been an alternative Financial system an alternative money that we all have access to you know traditionally you think of gold you think of real estate as ways to capture and store your time and energy why because gold is a collection of chemicals that's close to what you want out of a money because government can't print it right it's hard to create more of it it's not perfect but it's close real estate in theory the theory behind real estate is you can't print any more land does that mean you can't

print any more real estate unfortunately not they're going to build a building in Manhattan that's 10,000 Stories high right but these things are close and Bitcoin in my opinion is the first man-made money we didn't make gold we didn't make land depends on how religious you are and stuff but right you know what I mean yeah we made Bitcoin from scratch to solve this specific problem it is the first man-made human engineered money to be perfect and it is the best expression of this problem that everyone has access to not everyone has access to Miami

beachfront real estate not everyone has access to store tons and tons of gold in a vault protected by armed weapons in their basement but everyone can get Bitcoin and get out I think one of the issues is the exit door is not very big all right can everyone get out mathematically no so what does that mean for those people well um so okay uh the whole debt to GDP government has all these deficits um there is technically another way out like if I were elected president of the United States of America and I can do

any one day this he's going to make safy you're going to make sa safe te's point I think you're going to make which is what's the best way to kill B coin he's like good government well I think I think it's helpful to just talk through some of the like there are real options um and I don't think they're practical and I don't think they're going to happen but it's useful to kind of like break these things down if you let's say Bitcoin didn't exist and I'm the president of the United States how do I

fix this problem and maybe I'm allowed to be president for the next hundred years guaranteed so I'm not operating in these cyclical terms where I have to continue to convince the the public to vote for me and stuff the point is if there were no consequences and no other options what you do is you let the banks fail right you take away the simplistic government guarantee that Banks Can't Fail take away FDIC insurance and tell everyone that if your deposit isn't there then you're screwed everyone withdraws money out of the banks the banks collapse Bankers

are kicked out onto the curb some of them maybe go to jail all these Banks fail that's the death of the treasury market bonds are destroyed and we rebuild from there that is an option someone can campaign and say I'm going to fix the economy fix our deficits by collapsing all the banks all of your Social Security checks gone Medical Care gone easy access to oil gas and energy gone I'm going to [ __ ] your life but it's going to be good because 10 years later we're going to be great and we saw that

in the Great Depression right we lived through that and then we kicked ass won the world wars and became the America that now is being questioned today how did that happen in the Great Depression what did they do it's similar thing it was just like a great reset they had no choice it was just like a great reset and so just to be clear like that's technically an option in 2008 like what should happen when A bank's fail the shareholders take over the bank those that own like the depositors and the shareholders take over Jamie

diamonds kicked kicked to the curb in jail right so if you take out this the simplistic guarantee that like no matter what we're going to save you then like the system CL so that is an option right and so right now the worst Bond bare Market ever all of our bank deposits are in bonds so bonds are down our deposits are gone that's the issue and they could just let the whole thing fail and say banks are going to fail your deposits aren't there oops we're all poor societies go up in arms and it's going

to be chaotic and hectic and painful but no pain no gain Jack MERS 2024 and in a decade we're gonna be back but boy is this going to suck I I'd never get elected right um and so what's interesting is Malay kind of campaigned that way and so I think a lot of what we're seeing in Argentina is a foreshadowing for some of the West you need enough civil unrest when the United States of America was founded if you look back it how our fing fathers were talking like they were willing to Die For Freedom

I've become a recent fan of history or just gotten more into his honestly inspired by sailor that guy's reciting like Roman fing so but if you look back at the founding of America they were willing to Die For Freedom and independence from you right and I don't think we're there yet I don't think we're there yet but a lot of the world is and Malay is campaigning on I'm going to burn this thing to the ground and it's going to suck and be painful and all these losses that are prior leaders bestowed on us we're

going to take them on to the face and get our ass kicked but then on the other side we're going to be better and that guy won the election that's why it was such a big deal I don't think America's there yet right and so just on mle he had to get people to vote for him uh who these policies wouldn't be good for right and and he did he campaigned he made he made the voters who were relying on the social handouts right he made them understand that that this is still making them poorer

and they voted for him So eventually you do get enough civil unrest where the people want the pain it's enough and they want to go through it together for brighter future and you're seeing that in a country like Argentina America we're not there yet you're seeing inklings of it I think like Trump's election in 2016 was fascinating it was like like people want to shake it up they want something different right they don't want a Clinton they don't want like these classic American political families they want something different um but we're not there yet so

the point is sorry it's a little long-winded but the point is they're not going to let the banks fail obviously you're not going to get elected saying Social Security gone your bank deposits gone your medical care gone two cars in a garage access to unlimited energy cheap oil cheap everything gone you're not going to win the election so what's the only other way out is to debase the currency and you open any Market chart and you see that gold up S&P up right everyone's worried of currency debasement and Bitcoin is the antithesis of currency debasement

it's the expression of currency debasement it's the exit door of currency to basement and and like you know the ETFs that's ETFs told me everything I need to know the poor wink ofos twins your buddies I mean poor guys trying to get an ETF for a [ __ ] decade you still haven't got one mhm Larry shows up and is like yeah no the time's now I need it yesterday boom done Case Closed tells you everything you need to know right so yeah there are two doors one is letting everything collapse and fail that's not

an option so the only other one is they're going to have to steal the time and energy of all of us that hold the currency and so you got to get out I'm glad you said said steal them because originally you said Bor and I was like as a father of two kids it's like they're not borrowing from my kids they're [ __ ] stealing from them right yeah um yeah but I yeah I mean I think you know we were talking about this podcast maybe being like Bitcoin 101 or what is bitcoin you know

I think understanding Bitcoin is understanding money you know Bitcoin is money when people say Bitcoin is blockchain Bitcoin is technology I think a lot of the other altcoins confuse that um no bitcoin's money bitcoin's designed to be the best money we've ever had and money is our time and energy in an abstracted form um and so I don't know I think so it's pretty obvious to me and I think Bitcoin will continue to be the best performing asset um through this currency to basement and we'll see well so it's an interesting thing because um the

way you obviously talk about Bitcoin is being this uh uh exitor that we have this this way to protect ourselves against the incoming ongoing uh currency debasement and we again I mentioned lukan again because do you want to say what lukman thinks the answer will be the Israel I mean he thinks we're going to go into a period of like very very high inflation like triple digit inflation for a short period of time try and wipe out the debt and kind of rebuild from there it's possible oh yeah he's saying it's possible sorry he's not

saying it's like yeah it's possible um you know like one of the facts of the universe is that the past you can't change and the future you don't know and the only thing we all collectively share is the Eternal now right and so anyone that tells you they know what's going to happen is a liar yeah um so it's totally possible I do think that the future is currency debasement and just walked you guys through my mental model is it's the only viable option um but yeah how high the inflation can get what's going to

happen how much civil unrest I mean what we could see is I've been on record saying I think bitcoin's going to 250,000 to a million long before Trump or any these rumors or whatever else it's solely predicated on we're likely to see the greatest asset bullk Market in the history of bull markets why because central banks have progressively price fixed everything whenever something breaks they don't let the business cycle complete they don't let anything fail they don't allow for pain they don't allow for volatility all these things are natural entropy is natural in the universe

it's ever increasing right and they don't allow for it it's very unnatural thing to do real estate market fails they they fix it they price fix it the only thing that has not been price fixed and protect is the bond market the most unruly holy mother Mecca of all markets and that's the one now that's in trouble and you can see like the rule like Lynn talks about fiscal dominance and the fact that drones drone pw's real boss is Janet Yellen it's supposed to be an independent Central Bank but it's not and his job is

clearly to keep an orderly Market in treasuries protect this Market if the Japanese yen is in trouble give them help they could do whatever they want except sell treasuries like protect us help us I don't care about rumors about tether if they're a large holder of ours let them do whatever they want right and so is this the cycle where central banks try and price fix the bond market if it is the quantity of money printing is astronomical you're going to get two three four five cids worth of printing and I think it's going to

send assets astronomically High gold real estate equities all right and then Bitcoin is the only truly fixed asset we've ever had and so Bitcoin will outperform everything orders of magnitude so I do I do believe that and I don't know I mean inflation inflation defined by what you know there has been inflation 100% over the last year if I denominated in btcusd so inflation in what right Cesar salad Netflix description so I think a lot of that stuff gets a little word salad for me but I do that is my mental model is that um

there's one market left the biggest one that they need to save and the amount of liquidity required for that is astronomical and then on the other side of that I do get concerned like you know you cannot print your way to growth printing time printing time and energy if money is time and energy in abstracted form printing time and energy is uneconomical it's it it doesn't match up to reality physical reality it isn't real right and so then you get a hangover like I I love the cleanest analogy of money Printing and then the effects

afterwards is drinking alcohol right you get really wasted every girl's into you you've got a six-pack you've got the best dance moves right like the world is sexy and amazing in those few hours you wake up in the morning and you got to face physical reality when you're drunk none of those things are real physically real money and economics reward those that match to physical reality that's why proof of Works tied to the physical world is why Bitcoin works and so printing money isn't physically real and then I I worry that we're going to go

through the biggest asset bull run ever and then we're going to have a massive hangover and potentially a reset of a lot of like the geopolitical macroeconomic setup that we live in today I hope it doesn't coincide with like a World War which is what typically happens um and you can kind of see pocket you could see that so that that's my that's my biggest worry is like we go through the price fixation and the saving of the sovereign debt markets which is what I'm really talking about and everyone else around the world it's kind

of the unwinding of the postor War II is that it's like postor War II America was the one manufacturing stuff on their feet and they're willing to help everyone else out it's like you guys can produce stuff import it to us we'll export our debt we'll help you get back on your feet and now 100 years later everyone's back on their feet and they're like well we want meat and energy and twocc car garages and high qualities of life too um we want to rearrange these relationships we don't think it's very fair that you get

to Just Produce this much debt and just bully us and bomb us all the time and if we have to rearrange these relationships you know usually that coincides with physical and fighting like and protections of hegemonies and stuff and that's my my concern but that's kind of the mental model I'm operating under can we put you in a different seat right so we know that like Jack as president to take which is kind of like the nuclear option which we know is obviously not going to happen with any like current running president I'm too young

maybe someday one day but if you were now in like Jerome paly and you were like working within the the premise of his job what would you do if you were him yeah well again like I think quit yeah apart from quit you will [ __ ] problem I'm off I think well I think these are uh really important mental exercises to walk through though like so excluding you know this Bitcoin stuff um Jerome Powell has a problem inflation right too much money printing too much printing of time and energy money is time and energy

in abstracted form abstracted form into what it's abstracted into a market good it is a market good just like a sandwich just like a car but I buy a sandwich to eat it it I buy a car to transfer myself I buy money why do I acquire money not to consume it not to eat it or get in it and drive somewhere I buy money to exchange it for something later so it is the market good that you acquire not to consume but to exchange for something else right and that's what it is it's our

ability to save store and exchange our time and energy our Collective contributions it to capture ourselves what are you Danny you are the time you have on this planet and the energy in which you express yourself on this planet and you're able to extrap that in a market good to acquire the things you need in your life that's what money is it's the most important thing in any civilization any society if you're able to print that you're able to print time and energy one first it devalues printing money makes the money worth less so it

devalues all of us fundamentally when the government prints money they're devaluing you as a human being and all that you've done and the proof of work you put in the time and energy that comprise of you so it's the most it's the most insulting malicious Act for government ever but if you just look in Market Dynamic economic terms when you print time and energy you're increasing the supply of the market good that exist to acquire things that we consume without like you're you're increasing the demand without the supply going up so it's just natural inflation

right this is a huge [ __ ] problem um there have V so so Jerome well so so so that's what's happening right and that's a huge problem is there's so much time and energy in the market because they're artificially creating it um but there's no there's not more sandwiches there's just not more cars there's not more eggs in fact the human population is going down I love the saying it takes 18 years to create an 18yearold no matter what a government tells you you know real growth is More Humans if our if the supply

of our money has gone up 30% did the supply of human beings go up 30% which would be we need 30% more cars we need 30% more eggs we need 30% more sandwiches more laptops more microphones 30% more podcasts no only the time and energy they printed artificially not real growth right and so anyway Jerome Paul has this problem what he should do is hike rates even more [ __ ] 5 and a half percent rates 50 and a half% rates if it if if his job was really to fix this problem keep deleting dollars

deleting credit from the system letting Banks fail right that's what if I were the the chairman of the fed that's what I'd do why'd he stop supposedly the US economy is growing at 91% rates are only at 5 a half the government's arbitraging that spread and they're monetizing it raise them to six seven eight oh Bank of America's functionally insolvent [ __ ] them failure that's what that's the task at hand but he can't right his boss is actually Janet yelling but it's important to talk about these things out loud and understand them in like

a very deep level because that's an option he could technically say [ __ ] you guys you screwed up it's my job to protect the purchasing power of this currency I have to keep raising rates I have to keep fixing this problem I have not hit my target of 2% in fact I'm not close he's going to change the target but he's not of course right but he's not but it's it's important to know that that's an option he could do that we could just let all the banks fail right but so anyway what would

I do I'd fix the problem that's my job but I think we are living in this fiscal dominance is his job to fix the problem or is his job to do what government require him to do not only that it's a yeah his job is to finance government spending there you go right it's not with a job we want him to do is a job they want him to do right I mean what we're all realizing is like the fact the Central Bank isn't a separate independent bank right and Drome Powell doesn't act in the

best interest of the currency etc etc etc but theoretically that's what he should be doing he should be protecting the purchasing power of the dollar so when you see rates at 5 a half% and people are buying gold why are you buying a rock when you have a risk-free return of five five and a half four and a half percent that seems uneconomical that seems ridiculous well people don't believe in the future purchasing power of the dollar they don't think Jerome Powell is going to go up to bat and protect that risk-free return and protect

the purchasing power when they actually get paid out right that's what the market is saying I I don't believe you if you actually cared if I'm lending money to the government and the government's growing at 10% you owe me what 10% you're giv me five and a half I call [ __ ] that's what the bond market is saying there's a like go to six go to seven and in fact that's what you should be doing so why would I buy a bond now when I know it should be higher because then my Bond's going

to go underwater my customer deposits aren't going to be there right etc etc so like the whole thing like and that's why you know bitcoin's making new highs that's why Larry thinks ETF is like the gigs up you know but uh you know the way I was raised if I have a job to do I do the job so that's what I would do I'd fix the problem I'd vote for you yeah look you're a bitcoiner of course uh and you talk about this Bitcoin as this exit but exit are what also is is is

it exit until you this short period of time that we have to get through this maybe short sharp shocker de basement and then we go back to the normal or do you think there's an endgame here where we set a new normal are we actually just going to reshape the world now like how do you think about that because we can explain Bitcoin as a you know as a as a exit for current economic issues or short-term upcoming economic issues but also should we be be framing a new endgame um I'd like I just love

the money is time and energy in an abstracted form and I like Bitcoin can be that for you that's what money is when people say like Okay so let's just take how I live for example I own no dollars I own three things in my life literally only well excluding whatever shirts hoodies I own Bitcoin I own my house I own my company that's it Bitcoin is my money Bitcoin and what does that mean Bitcoin is my time and energy in an abstracted form for me that I acquire to exchange later for the things I

need in life and I think Bitcoin can be that for people it's very simple like my quality of life and the way I live hasn't changed I just spend on credit cards so I'm borrowing the thing that only goes down and I save in the thing that only goes up when we all go to dinner I pull out the same financial instruments you guys do but I use a different money I use a different tool a different technology to to store my time and energy and I think that's what it can be and think about

it like no one uses the dollar as money no one uses the dollar to store their time and energy it's stocks it's gold it's real estate it's Airbnb Investments everyone's trying to figure out how to what technology what's the best money we have what's the best thing to capture save and store exchange our time and energy so I think it's an exit door for that exactly is to I mean the invention of Bitcoin is so mindblowing it it Bitcoin is time and energy money like how do you create Bitcoin who creates Bitcoin uh it's created

with energy it's like right proof of work how much energy is it this amount of energy that amount of energy no 10 minutes worth of energy it requires energy and that amount of energy is denominated in time so money is our time and energy in abstracted form Bitcoin is time and energy money so I don't know like I think it's that simple instead of using real estate or equities to store your time and energy or dollars or bonds I think people will use Bitcoin this is really great also if you've uh understand markets so you

know if you got a Unreal dad like yours who's giving you this birthing into the financial system or if you've listened to luk WAN or Preston Pi or ly Oren I how do you explain it to your buddies that you went to school with who haven't got that how do you how do you translate all of that into into a world that they understand um write write all of that in in a tweet yeah um I think about this a lot really well what's what's your answer and then I'll give mine I don't know if

I have a good one yet that's the problem I keep coming up against it I'm like how do I crystallize this in a way people go Pete I've watched you for seven years make this podcast and travel around the world and do Bitcoin and somehow your life seems okay and M's going to [ __ ] like I can't seem to translate it but I'm trying I'm trying so hard it's like I can't crystallize it um yeah I mean I I find the understanding money piece like you know I think everyone at this point understands has

a fundamental understanding of inflation that printing currency debases the y um and I still believe the time and energy piece is the best way to get this across like I look at a lot of societal metrics that I think give me a pulse into how the world is doing so the average age of marriage so people used to get married in their early 20s now it's early 30s mhm the population growth is declining divorce rates going up home ownership going down like obesity rates like it's an index into how metabolically healthy we are and happy

right all of the human civilization how prosperous is Humanity all of those kpis key performance indicators are down um and I think it's a symbol it's a it's a symbolization of um the fact that the money's broken and so I think that resonates with people today I think people feel that um and when you sit down with someone and have a beer and say you know um the dollar is a bad way to store your contributions to the society you can work for 40 years and never own a home you can work for 40 years

and never be able to afford to own and produce two children in a family forget retirement like that's how the question you can work for 40 years and still need to work 40 more and I think that resonates with people and then the next evolution is well crap if I'm going to have time on this planet and express my life through the energy I contribute into the world where do I store that what do I exchange for my labor for my work and I think Bitcoin is the best answer we got why um because it's

fixed in Supply you cannot debase it right so it's fixed in Supply it lives without you know control of a government or a corporation um and so I like that's the way I would explain it very simply put um but I do believe we're in a unique time now where that level of civil unrest and pain um has reached a point where people are willing to listen and engage and explore uh in this topic I think that retirement one is is a good point I mean the question for so many people me at 45 most

people want most people expect 65 they're done and hopefully he can retire before then but I think you know with 20 years to go I it's a very easy question to turn around to people and say okay when do you plan to retire can you yeah what what have you got that's going to allow you to retire well think about it right like let's say one paycheck gets you a month's worth of groceries yet you know two paychecks whatever one paycheck one month worth of groceries they debase the currency to where now one paycheck only

gets you one week's worth of groceries so when they debase the currency they're debasing you and so it's requiring more time and energy from you to have a sustainable life so people can only get married later because they need to contribute more time and energy into this world to be able to start a family to be able to own a home to be able to retire to be able to have groceries have gas in their tank and so by debasing the currency you're requiring more time and energy from individuals and from humans to have a

sustainable life or a life that we all agree is worthwhile right and so that's like that's the crime and that's the problem and I think it's reached a point where everyone feels that um and so that's the way I would explain it is the reason that you don't think a home home ownership is ever attainable that you don't think you can have four kids and retire early and go to their soccer games and tutor them in math class and teach them how to ride a bike the reason that you're worried about divorce because you're economically

unstable and there's stress in the household because your future is uncertain is because of your money because your ability to capture your labor your time and energy and the technology you're using to do that and I would take a look at Bitcoin that's what I would say yeah you um you did a very interesting presentation recently where you basically explained to people if you were to go into coinbase and you saw Bitcoin and all these other things why it's Bitcoin um I I I think it's good to revisit that as well true because I'm definitely

going to be forwarding this show out to a few people listen to and I and I I you know we're back in that time where your friends are phoning you and they're like am I too late for Bitcoin what about the other Bitcoins and you're trying to explain to people uh but you approached it I think you approached it in a very interesting way well two uh I think I did one in Madera and then I did one uh in Prague right I want to touch on the Prague one okay where you went into proof

of work why proof of work so important and like I know a lot of people would know this already but let's preface it but just a very quick tldr what proof of work is so people understand we're talking about Mining and Etc yeah um it's a hash cost function is technically what Adam back created you have to do a verifiable amount of work of computational expense to produce a data set to produce a random number um you can set how difficult it is to do that so how much computational effort uh it requires to achieve

that and you can verifi it instantly the main point is proof of work is the only digital object that's tied to the physical world all right and that's like the the thing adom back created that blew everyone's mind and changed the way we think about everything is he was able to create a digital data set that implies physical reality that tells us that real physical electrons were moved in the physical Universe um and that that is the invention of proof of work I don't know if that's the answer that you were looking for but yeah

definitely and it was the explanation why proof of work is uh more more important than proof of stake the differences between the two because I honestly you crystallize it in a way that I hadn't heard it talked about before yeah well okay um so you know the fallacy that you know money is this like construct if we all believe that bananas are money they're money if we all believe ethereum is money they're money so it's this Collective illusion of belief that's not true right like money is a technology uh in the same way that an

airplane is technology if we all believe that a banana is an airplane you can run off a cliff and jump on the banana and then you'll die and that'll fix everyone thinking that a banana is an airplane so money rewards you matching your expectations to physical reality right so for those that want to travel and get on an actual airplane they'll get to their destination for those that want to travel and get on a banana they'll die and so you're rewarded to match to physical reality right and so this collection of beliefs that like proof

of stake s proof of stake is banana airplane right it has no physical ties to the real world it doesn't honor and respect physical reality it is an abstracted illusion the reason that proof of work does and is tied to physical reality is again because it requires the physical Universe to produce a specific amount of energy um to computate and solve a math problem and the digital world's able to understand that math problem because it's just a piece of data but that piece of data can only be produced by the physical universe and so therefore

Bitcoin is the only cryptocurrency is the only digital money that respects the physical laws of the universe which makes it an actual Contender to be money it is energy money right denominated in time like I said whereas ethereum is a construct in people's brains that you know if everyone wants to treat ethereum as money and save themselves from what we're talking about the bond market collapse and currency debasement they're going to jump on a banana and try and fly and they're going to get hurt did you blow your own mind when you went through and

constructed the presentation yeah I mean bitcoin's like the most I mean what Satoshi has created is uh I mean it's almost a spiritual experience trying to understand it it is mindblowing I mean I was I was thinking about this podcast and coming to talk to you guys and I blew my own mind it it really I I hope I'm articulating this well it really blows my mind whereas money is are time and energy in abstracted form Bitcoin is the only money that is backed by time and energy right like it actually I mean the foresight

that Satoshi had to have had it's really hard to comprehend is what what would be the perfect money the perfect money so the government can just print time and energy backed by nothing so what's the perfect money the perfect money is the only way to create it is by contributing energy so it's energy backed money okay that's proof of work the other perfect property of money is the time piece right how do you incorporate time well how much energy is required to create a Bitcoin it's denominated in time 10 minutes worth of energy is the

answer you're like wow so money is a market good that's our time and energy in abstracted form Bitcoin is money backed by time and energy in the physical universe is crazy right and what he created is like we have this digital Ledger we all share who gets to right to that ledger who gets to update it the FED sailor think Trump no whoever solves the proof of work hash cost function is the answer who's that some any of us any of us who can take the energy from the physical universe and and back our money

with it right and then denominating it in time is just a mind-blowing concept and so it is the first man-made money we've ever had engineered to be perfect engineered to solve these exact problem so when I say it's the best expression of currency debasement right it is the antithesis of fiat currency I mean it's uh it's always fascinating especially if you've been in Bitcoin for as long as you have I mean I don't know if it's 2012 13 14 but either way I would say 13 yeah I mean it's over a decade um and the

the kind of place we are now is I still have many doubts uh back in i' i' conviction 2013 when I first discovered Bitcoin but when I probably even in 2017 I was like yeah but we're never actually going to get to this point if somebody said oh yeah in 20124 um there's going to be pipes into the Bitcoin system from the entire Financial world all the largest institutions are going to be monetizing and access to bitcoin banks are going to be campaigning to legislate to be a to hold Bitcoin on the balance sheet and

the presidential lead presidential candidate is going to be going to the Bitcoin conference as a keynot speak like all of that i' be like yeah [ __ ] yeah yeah we won there but I I I don't think it's going to be there but now we are here do you not find like it drivve it makes your conviction even higher of course but you know what you end up realizing is you need Bitcoin more than Bitcoin needs you Trump whether it's us Trump or think Trump need Donald Trump needs Bitcoin more than Bitcoin needs Donald

Trump Larry think needs Bitcoin more than Bitcoin needs Larry think right what does that tell you the desire in the innate nature for humans to find a way to capture their time and energy is the nucleus of a flourishing and functioning society and so it is only natural for everyone to gravitate towards the best technology to store save and exchange time and energy so of course I I mean I've never been more excited uh to be involved in Bitcoin but in a way none of this stuff really surprises man um that that um where you

talk about uh we need Bitcoin more than it needs us yeah you as an individual I as an indivual individual Danny everyone in this room Eric K behind us but the the United States as a country well I was going to say and for Larry think he may as an individual need it but he he's realized his customers need it yeah and he needs his customers to need it for for Black Rock to continue to dominate the uh Financial landscape and and Donald Trump might need it individually but but he realizes that the elector also

need it for him to have a successful Administration yeah so elpr is at multiple levels yeah but again like if you go back to first principes so let's remove money from society theoretically you do this podcast and I said in exchange for this podcast you get money say you didn't you'd go to the grocery store and say hey guys I just recorded a podcast with Jack I'll take two RI eyes what would they say I don't give a [ __ ] about your podcast right it's not an exchangeable Market good before money we had barter

right and so money allowed Society to scale past a couple dozen people before money someone did the hunting someone did the caregiving someone built the houses and you all just exchanged the labor right money allowed us to hyp specialize on things like creating a podcast like being a president like running a financial fund Larry fin goes to Whole Foods and says hey guys I just worked really hard on the ethereum ETF legislation the guy behind the meat counter would be like I don't give a [ __ ] old man like what the hell is that

got to do with me right and so money is is the only reason we can operate Society in our species at a scale of 8 billion people and so I like again I don't care who who you are President fund manager like there is no more important technology than Bitcoin because it is trying to solve money which is the nucleus of a functioning Society we live in an economy of 8 billion people the only way we're going to be able to sustain the world is by having good money and so yeah like I I don't

know I don't mean to undermine the question but it's just yeah everyone cares it's one of the rare projects in the world that's applicable to all 8 billion humans immediately the size and scale of what we're trying to achieve is astronomical um and so it is not a shock that in a few days we're going to see the lead leading presidential candidate potentially advocate for it of course he will do you think Trump knows why he cares yet or why he should car like just speculating on how much how how well he understands Bitcoin is

he here to get however many million dollars in donations or like it's totally self- serving right well listen yeah I mean listen um if someone well what what rumor are you aware of before I run my mouth I mean the Strategic Reserve I assume is what you're talking about sure okay fine let's do that so the Strategic Reserve Trump's going to buy a bunch of Bitcoin um supposedly if he actually cared about owning the Bitcoin you fill your order first before you tell everyone about itre okay so then and there cares more about telling being

popular than filling his order um he's not going to get nearly as many SATs if he tells everyone about it before he acquires it so that tells you everything you need to know just like pure market dynamics about where his interests are I don't think that's I mean we're talking about like political Dynamics though right it's the world we live in so I think that tells me everything I need to know if I were him I'd fill my order and then come back next year and tell everyone about how you did it I wouldn't do

the opposite um so think it I think it's politics um of course uh but I don't I don't think that's an issue um necessarily uh and like we said earlier like Trump needs Bitcoin more than Bitcoin needs him so he's here because he needs Bitcoin he needs us um you know we don't necessarily need Trump he he could be helpful and so could Kamala Kamala I don't even know how to pronounce your name yeah like everyone could be yeah but I don't know if I like if he cared about owning the most amount of SATs

he could like maybe some of us do he would fill his order first probably I'm pretty confident David Bailey's done a job on him yeah he's a good salesman yeah I mean um we'll see I mean politicians like the president is the biggest CMO position in the world right Chief marketing officer um they're here to do one job and that's get elected right like politicians favorite thing to do is give you a bunch of free [ __ ] tell you what you want to hear get an office and then do some of it maybe so

you know we'll we'll see um but I think it's unbelievably exciting and I what I will say about this strategic Reserve piece which I think is really important is you know people are speculating on is this you know going to weaken the dollar you know how are they going to buy are they gonna print money to buy Bitcoin that's going to be very very bad for the dollar are they going to strengthen the Dollar by backing the dollar with this Bitcoin um I think it's dollar neutral until we know any any details but what I

think is fascinating is I think if this happens and it's followed through this has got to be one of the biggest economic announcements from the United States of America maybe since 1971 in Nixon and you have to probably include a lot of what happened in 2008 but if you think about those announcements those were out of desperation those have negative connotations those were out of fear those violated property rights what is this announcement was the anti this announcement is Progressive yeah this announcement is about jobs about energy about industry this announcement is about technology about

growth about inclusion about Freedom about Hope about openness when was the last time as an American I lived through an announcement an economic announcement from the United States of America that was on offense that was inspiring that was creative Progressive rhetorical question the answer is never and so that's what I think the takeaway is is that presidential candidate is here inspiring the country potentially right he better do it now after you said that I'm emotional yeah well I I I firmly believe in the you know tough times create strong men right strong men create good

times good times create we I firmly believe that and I think we've gone through the cycle since World War II where America has weak men and that are creating tough times those tough times has created a lot of strong men and I think people think strong men like Roman culture riding a horse like pecs bigger than a [ __ ] truck right um I think strong men I think of Satoshi Nakamoto right tough times create strong men and strong men create good times and I think Cipher punks I think Satoshi I think cryptography um and

so I think we're living through hopeful I'm hopeful as an American I'm hopeful we're living through an American Revolution of tough times creating strong men and those strong men creating amazing times for this country but digitally as opposed through physical Warfare in human blood I hope it's through digital Warfare and peaceful cryptographic tools and I I think that's what I hope to hear on Saturday um and uh so we'll see um but I that to me that's what's most meaningful it's not speculating on the dollar and such but that this would be very American down

to you know the founding of the country beautiful yeah sometimes [ __ ] bullish yeah sometimes you have to go that's the moment to wiend this Jack MERS I love you man I love you too thanks for having me uh thanks for listening everybody