Conservative or Progressive Theology? | Dr. Vince Bantu

it is actually very rare to find black people with phds in bible or theology or religion of some sort that actually believe in jesus and actually believe that jesus is the only way and that the bible is the perfect word of god that is actually like we are far in the minority which is crazy because most black christians and and pastors and churches believe those things believe in jesus that he's the only way in the bible's word of god but if you got all the black phds in bible or theology in a room together it'd

be like probably nine and ten of us would say no i don't believe that if we're being honest now a lot of us a lot of scholars aren't honest [Music] what's up everybody you're watching another episode of the g3 project podcast as always i'm your host lisa fields the founder of the juni3 project and today i'm joined by a very special guest who's no stranger to the g3 project dr vince montu welcome dr bontu hey hey lisa great to be here great to have you this is our second time shooting uh this particular episode because

uh i was having some technical difficulties on my end as you can see i'm not in the studio today i'm in my office but uh we are going to roll with it uh and we got all the kinks worked out on the audio of my end this time so this should actually work for us um but we're going to be in a new series uh on your book the gospel homino i'm uh getting in the frame there i'm recording this episode with you but you have three additional interviews that you hosted uh with some of

the uh contributors of this this book um that we encourage everybody to get also vince has a free ebook available on the g3 project website the bizrod um apologetics in african terms so you definitely want to get that as well but before we go into all the details and talk through the book for those who haven't seen you on the podcast which i don't know how that's possible but tell our audience just a little bit about who you are oh yeah yeah well um as as you said lisa no stranger uh ju-3 project it feels

like the crib you know uh and and uh yeah but uh great to be here again uh so i um i actually uh uh primarily uh am a teacher uh you know teacher of of um church history especially focusing on early african church history is my my main emphasis um and i teach at uh fuller seminary philo theological seminary uh where i teach church history and black church studies and then i also uh am uh the ohene or the the president of the meacham school of hymeno which is a an african-american seminary program uh aimed

at giving affordable and contextual uh biblical education for ministry ministers in the black community so those are kind of the two main hats uh and then uh also in addition to the book we're gonna talk about i also have a another book out on early african and asian christianity called multitude of all people so uh yeah that's just kind of like the the hats that i'm wearing uh right now awesome uh and also you're uh interpreting things uh from african languages into the english so we're excited to to to see the finished product of that

because i know that's gonna be impactful today we're talking about this book the gospel of what was the motivation behind this book yeah that uh that's a great question lisa because yeah it's a little it's a little different uh than a lot of the stuff that i that i've done which really more has to do with more ancient stuff um and uh and and there's something that really the lord put in my heart uh that uh i would say really goes back to my journey uh in education you know because i i came up uh

in the west side of st louis you know i i didn't really think about college or all that kind of stuff but i felt a call to ministry and uh and and it was really out of that that i ended up even going to school period and and uh and my journey going through the academic process that god took brought me through which i just would have never thought possible from going to college and then seminary and then going to graduate school i i it was almost like leaving the nest you know going into academia

and studying the bible and theology and all this kind of stuff and and it was um you know really it really was like almost a case study in the in the state of theological academia as a whole um and and i really felt kind of caught between like uh two worlds neither one of which really i felt reflected where i came from and the faith uh and the the gospel that i was raised in uh in my in my urban context and you know i was i went and studied in conservative evangelical institutions where you

know people were you know were saying that they were committed to the authority of scripture and to the gospel and the truth of the gospel but i didn't see myself or my community of people like me reflected in the curriculum in the classes and we would not ever be hearing from or reading material or having professors that looked like myself and my community and so um and oftentimes and we still see this now uh oftentimes there was a a distrust or a hesitancy for really embracing values of justice and reconciliation and and things like that

and like oh that's not the gospel we i mean we're seeing a whole lot of that right now um and so uh and so i i didn't really feel like the conservative evangelical framework really fit i mean again i you know it's funny because i was i i got saved when i was seven years old i even know what evangelical was and i went to evangelical schools and they were like oh you're evangelical i'm like i guess you know but you know is that you know i'm i believe in jesus i'm saved i'm sacrificing the

holy ghost i'm a believer i'm born again i don't know what evangelical is but and then the more i started to learn about you know really um the way evangelicalism has really been just really embedded in american empire really from the very beginning um again it really just didn't fit uh for for me and then on the flip side you know i started going to other schools as well i had opportunity studies in mainline schools as well and and and ironically i actually initially felt more comfortable in those kind of spaces because i saw more

black professors i saw more black students i saw more blackness in the curriculum and other cultures too and it and i mean it was like the opposite to where if you're not down with issues of justice you're kind of weird um and so i was at first i was like oh this is cool but then i started getting a little deeper into it and i was like oh wait a minute hold up like a lot of these professors don't actually believe in the bible they study it and they know it back and forth but they

don't believe in it and and then the thing that really tripped me out lisa was when i began to become introduced to the thing that is called black theology and and and that really was what kind of threw me off was when i again a lot of good stuff in black theology or liberation women's theology a lot of good stuff in there a lot of helpful critiques to the kind of more conservative evangelical whatever framework but i started to see a uh a consistent kind of like uh relativism or pluralism uh kind of um it's

really almost like a like a a secular humanism with some jesus sprinkled on it where the experience and liberation of the marginalized is really the center of theology in the beginning and end point uh for liberation theology and you know jesus and the gospel is kind of like take it or leave it as you as you as you will and certainly the bible is not trusted or seen as authoritative and i was like whoa hold up how is this black you know that seems very disingenuous to call that black because you know that's like you

know uh that's not actually what i was raised with and that's not what most of us are raised within the black church and so i just i really you know felt kind of like where you know where is something that's really reflective of the black church and the holistic nature of the black church where it is equally committed to the truth of scripture and to justice um and that's really kind of the motivation uh is really just my own experience of not seeing that reflected and then wanting to create categories that's where we talk about

being like the gospel hymn note and a gospelist framework that's really the motivation for the book is to create categories uh for for other you know not just in the academy but especially for uh black students seminary and otherwise and other students as well and and ministers and and christians more broadly again who might not fully feel like the the concept of evangelical theology uh fully fits them or uh or liberation or womanist theology fully uh fits their commitment to scripture that that that's the hope is that this framework of gospel is uh provides framing

and language to the already existent uh lived holistic theology of the black church that's good um before we dive into the chapter something i said that i want uh to piggyback on as you talked about being in um mainline seminary spaces how did you navigate those classes because i know there's so many people that are listening that are like i'm learning all this information i don't know how to navigate this is this true can we trust the the uh veracity the uh the authority of scripture can we trust what we have is the word of

god how did you navigate that space and not get sucked in because so many people kind of jettison scripture how how are you able to stay um through your time in that's in that space yeah thank you that i mean that's a great question because again i mean you know i use that phrase of like leaving the nest and really that's that's what it often is and that's really kind of gets into also uh you know why also the lord put on my heart to start the meacham school of hyman note as well as we

know we have a society and a journal where we're creating theological space and it's the same thing with this book the idea of the book is to really flesh out the paradigm and and all of these all of these different components are really poised to create academic space for black theological inquiry that is both academically rigorous and takes seriously uh the text and critical scholarship but also is rooted in the truth of the gospel and and that's something that uh really you know um is meant to not make it so hard uh because it was

really hard again it was hard in both it was hard um you know i felt like being as as a student and as a professor honestly like i've also taught in mainline liberal seminaries and conservative evangelical seminars and both as a i've been a student and a professor in both and and it feels like uh the struggle in conservative evangelical spaces is like do these people really care about my people and my community and do they care about biblical justice and they keep showing time and again that by and large they really don't and and

and that's very difficult feeling like you know like oh that's cultural marxism or that's liberalism and and again and and again it's um it's very frustrating uh to to deal with those kinds of things and and then on the flip side navigating the mainline liberal spaces that was difficult as well because again it's like you're leaving the nest and a lot of and again this is this is why also we created the meacham school of hymeno because the um academia has not has historically not serviced and not come alongside the black community well and so

that's the ideas of for us to create this kind of space because when the existing institutions are predominantly white and they're either conservative or liberal and then the handful of of black seminaries are also all coming from this very mainline liberal space where they don't actually believe in in the scriptures and so um and and again that's really uh just an effect of the fact that most of them were trained at these mainland liberal schools and they come in one way and then they come out another they come they've been raised and nurtured in the

black church they've been raised to believe in jesus but they come into these seminaries and and here's the other thing a lot of times lisa and you know this that a lot of times sometimes uh a black student will even have left a conservative evangelical school to go to a mainline school because the conservative evangelical schools are often so racist and so difficult i mean i i was a student and i got pulled over by the security campus security you know can i see your id and you know uh you know walking down the the

i'd be walking down the campus with a and just happy to be walking with a white female classmate and then come they pull over like are you okay young lady and just like all that you know professors trying to speak ebonics to me and all kind of crazy stuff that you know and we've we've seen it over the years uh you know students uh black students in evangelical spaces rising up and and speaking out against it and and the mainline schools are by no means perfect at all uh and free from racism but there's often

more uh you know like financial resources and there's often more uh at least lip service paid towards justice issues and and so and there's often more black faculty and so they're they're more comfortable spaces so the black student will come in and and be drawn to that and rightfully so will be drawn to the uh the more comfortable environment but then then you know and this is what i experienced then the professor says okay now now that we've won your trust let's come on over here like you know paul didn't really write this and moses

didn't really write that and jesus didn't really say that and you know what like all these things are act and it's funny because you know we do a lot of apologetics with um you know we do a lot of apologetic work with you know different religions in the black community hebrew israelites kinetic whatever but it's really interesting lisa how the thinking and the spirit behind a lot of mainline liberal theology is actually very similar to a lot of the urban religions that we engage with on apologetic level in that they are often motivated by this

sense that you know whatever you want to call it conservative or what i'm calling this book gospel theology or gospel hymano that they will often say that that's just a that's a problem they won't call it a white man's religion necessarily but they'll say that's a product of like dominating imperial theology to say that one thing is right and other things are wrong that's a that's a product of imperial theology and that's where i come back and say uh no actually uh early african christians have been arguing for one universal truth even when they were

the ones being persecuted for it so you can't say that but that's often they only are looking at the dominant sources and that's the other thing that's interesting is most black theology if you look at their footnotes they're mainly quoting german and white american theologians from the 19th and 20th century and so you know that's the that they're they're they're attacking white supremacy by looking only at white sources instead of black sources like you know the writings of harriet jacobs or uh gerina lee or frederick douglass or certainly ancient african sources that actually hold firmly

to the truth of the gospel and to justice and so that that was just for me what i had to really stay grounded in my faith and understand that again my faith is not in evangelicalism or mainline or any denomination or any theological strand or school of thought my faith is in jesus and it's in my faith is in the brown skin aramaic speaking palestinian hebrew name yeshua who died and rose again for my sins my faith is in him and it's not in any school of thought and jesus was what was with me and

navigating through all of those different things and i was holding on to that particular faith and taking the good and you know from all of these strands and then spitting out the bones and that was really what i just had to do um and uh but i think that was something that that's honestly another thing that really helped me the other thing i'll say second to second to just holding on to jesus was also intellectually it was and is actually a very helpful thing for me to ground my research in as as you know i

do in african sources whether it's on this side or that side of the pond i've mainly focused on like you know egyptian nubian ethiopian now i'm branching out into more west african sources uh and then even in this book gospel i'm not getting into african-american sources it's a it's amazing to me to see again how much the earliest african-american authors were committed christians and fought against slavery and injustice in jim crow and and so when you when we ground our intellectual life in in actual black sources whether they're african-american or african we come with time

and again with theologians and pastors and missionaries and people who were deeply committed to the gospel and deeply committed to uh to liberation and so that also really helps me to to stay grounded and both be able to critique and reject the fallacies of evangelicalism and mainline thinking and and how and really how again not only the not only the person and work of jesus christ which is the most important part but even like the legacy of african christianity and african-american christianity also complicates and refutes the the the problematic nature of both of these strands

of thought that's helpful your your your title of your article is undivided wings why is it entitled that and what is the kind of the premise of of your of your chapter yeah definitely definitely like so so i um you know just to give folks a quick layout of the of the book and um and also in my chapter as well uh the book is um and we're gonna be uh and as you mentioned lisa we're gonna be hearing from several of the authors in the book and um you know i was able to write

the introduction uh and the conclusion as well as a chapter that you mentioned under by the wings now there there's actually us uh several chapters throughout um and uh all coming from different perspectives um but i would say that like you know really the um the the intro uh you know to speak to maybe real quick to both of them the intro of the book really kind of lays out a lot of the dynamics that we've been talking about um you know just about kind of the way in which uh to to you to quote

that title you know undivided wings um the uh the way in which really dominant culture white theological academia uh ever since the 19th century and you know which is really just kind of an influence of european enlightenment thinking uh which is still i think a big part of what is affecting a lot of and driving a lot of mainline liberal theology which is another side note as a way from folks can stay grounded is to realize that when you're getting hit with lots of this very like kind of progressive mainline liberal theology one thing that's

helpful to realize is that a lot of it is really just rooted in german and european enlightenment thinking which is not very afrocentric and it's certainly not you know middle eastern word thought where jesus comes from and so uh and so for us to think that oh this is higher or critical thinking and and everyone must see the bible this way that's what intelligent people do that's actually very colonial hegemonic way of thinking and talking um and so uh but you know that was something that um you know we just kind of go through in

the introduction a little bit but also go to the scriptures and show how the gospel as it's presented in scripture is holistic and is not it's not a it's not an issue of truth or justice but it's both and and so then in the intro we we go through even african-american the earliest african-american theologians and authors and show how that has been the legacy of of the african-american experience since day one for the last 400 years that the african-american church is actually a very a very good reflection or witness to the holistic biblical christianity we

see witnessed in the new testament and that there has unfortunately also been kind of an aberration of christian thought that has been dominate domineering and imperial um and uh and that's been what characterizes christianity in people's minds but that's not true christianity that kind of constantinian or or or carolinian or uh or colonial or trumpian type of imperial christianity is this kind of dominant aberration but there's always been the true gospel that is holistic and the african-american church is one of many um great reflections of that holistic gospel and so that's the intro that's the

framework of what we're talking about when we say gospel hymeno that to be a gospelist says that you know uh and i mean again just to summarize it you know for going back even to the beginning even to 19th century evangelical means i'm committed to spiritual truth and but but social justice is not necessarily a high priority um in that framework mainline or progressive christianity also since 19th century is the opposite there's a commitment to human flourishing but there's not necessarily a commitment to absolute uh true theological and spiritual truth and and so what it

means gospel hyman or gospel got the gospel is paradigm means that there is no priority over one of these over the other you you cannot say one of them is more important because jesus himself said that the the second command is like it and so love the lord your god with all your heart mind soul and strength and the second is like it you cannot do the first one without the second one and vice versa and also the framework uh in the intro is also going to the african-american uh spirituals and the preaching experience the

way that the black church is identified with the exodus narrative and and and i try to draw attention to the full message we sing about go down moses and tell pharaoh let my people go and that that that mantra that concept of let my people go is has has been with us from abolitionism to civil rights and even now to uh you know to shouting i can't breathe and calling for justice to let us go and to give freedom but also we have to look at the fulfillment or the completion of that of that command

that moses issues several times all throughout exodus what does he say he says let my people go god says through moses so that they may worship me and so again human liberation is essential and is is integral to the mission of the church but it is not divorced from right worship orthopraxy is not divorced from orthodoxy and so they go together huma so liberation of the oppressed is unto the worship of jesus christ and so that's the framework that we set out in the introduction then in each chapter the various uh scholars are coming at

it from their own perspectives and the chapter that i wrote is coming at it from a patristics or an early christian uh scholarly perspective we're all looking at it whether it's old testament systematic theology uh pastoral counseling history we're all looking at it as black scholars who are uh who are in the minority i mean it is you know you know this lisa but it is um unfortunately and i don't know if a lot of listeners know this but it is actually very rare to find black people with phds in bible or theology or religion

of some sort that actually believe in jesus and actually believe that jesus is the only way and that the bible is the perfect word of god that is actually like we are far in the minority which is crazy because most black christians and and pastors and churches believe those things believe in jesus that he's the only way in the bible's word of god but if you got all the black phd's in bible or theology in a room together it'd be like probably nine and ten of us would say no i don't believe that if we're

being honest now a lot of us a lot a lot of scholars aren't honest but if we're being honest that's really where they're at and so we are a group of scholars the few that are saying we are we are black and proud uh but we are also committed to the gospel and we believe in jesus and we're all looking at it at our own disciplines from that perspective and my particular perspective is that of a patristic scholar and the title undivided wings actually refers to a quote from one of my favorite early uh theologians

ephraim the syrian who is an early middle eastern theologian wrote in syriac and he had a famous quote where he said truth and love are undivided wings they are wings that cannot be separated because truth without love cannot take off and love without truth cannot soar and so that i quoted ephraim the syrian he was a fourth century syrian theologian and he actually did theology in a unique middle eastern semitic way of poetry of musical interactive poetry that was also a mechanism of teaching theology that was very culturally uh unique to his context and i

quoted him in that because i like that idea that he said in the fourth century he got it and early christians got it in the fourth century again that you cannot separate truth from love or again relationship with jesus and relationship with one another and our call to uh shalom with one another that these things and basically my chapter i go through and show how in the early church this was understood this was an understood thing the the the dynamic that we're seeing in academia between liberal conservative you know evangelical mainline whatever you want to

call it that is really a white european first and then white american imposition academic kind of interjection into christian discourse that is very foreign to the very nature of christianity and even christian history it almost any other any other period in church history it would be almost foreign to come in and say i'm a christian but i don't believe in justice that's cultural marxism christians were at the front lines of justice work before marx was ever even uh you know ever even around in the 19th century and so that would be foreign and at the

same time it would be foreign to say i'm a christian but i don't really believe in the bible or i don't really believe jesus is the only way i think there's multiple ways like that would have been foreign again that is actually a very white idea that's a very white european enlightenment idea to say i'm a christian but i think there's there's multiple ways you know the truth and it's not only through jesus that is a very european way of thinking that is not an african or a middle eastern or an asian or even pre-19th

century that wasn't even a european christian way to think that is a very modern and western concept that then black theologians just kind of took schleiermarker and took bart and took nietzsche and took kant and they just slapped black in front of it and it doesn't sound like nothing in any black pulpit or any black church that's why most black churches don't even know who a lot of these theologians are and so that's really what the my chapter is really doing is trying to show how this uh this this holistic gospel hymano that the black

church the african-american church is a witness to is actually something that has been uh that has been character a very strong characteristic of the church from the very beginning that is that is helpful for our audience to note um when we think about the the scholars you're going to be interviewing in the next uh three episodes following this one um what key things do you think is important for them to know about the particular chapters there they will be speaking to yeah that that's that's that's a great question you know they i mean i i

wish we could do them all because you know all the scholars in in this book are are really you know top-notch uh you know old testament new testament uh you know theology practical uh ministry and uh homiletics and counseling and um so definitely uh get the book and read the whole thing but also follow the work of these scholars because again you know like i said there's only there's not that many of us unfortunately that again that are that are black scholars that are committed to the gospel and um and are you know black and

proud um and so uh so definitely follow their other writings and works as well but the ones that we're going to be doing in this series of videos we're going to actually profile and highlight the chapters uh from dr vince bakode uh from wheaton college and also dr jacqueline dyer from simmons university and then also dr caniquia day from gordon commonwealth seminary and dr baycode is coming at it from a like you know i was mentioning i'm coming at it from a patriotic standpoint he's coming at it from a systematic theology standpoint and his chapter

and his interview will really be helpful um you know and and will really be i think a really good uh really uh case study and and and uh and uh and representation of what it's like uh to i don't wanna give it away too much but he really he really talks a lot about his journey as a systematic theologian and as a publicly a student in a scholar of public theology and ethics uh his journey into a lot of the key thinkers who were european you know evangelicals that he had to grapple with coming to

terms with again the racism uh that again as i mentioned has been at the core of evangelical theology since its beginning even in the 19th century and his journey as a blacks as a black man and as a scholar how to you know basically how to engage evangelical theology that might have a lot of great benefits but also has a lot of problematic racism in it and how do we engage and navigate that as black scholars and and ministers and then dr uh jacqueline dyer will also be coming at it from a social worker and

also a uh counselor and therapist perspective and and as a practical theologian and her chapter is really on the need for trauma-informed care in in the black community and and a a pastoral approach that is that is okay that is that is woke to the realities of communal and historical trauma that is necessary in terms of our ministerial practice and again it's a that's that's i think a really helpful um chapter for those of us in the black community and and those of us who are black christians who are trying to again really reclaim and

and also to understand the holistic nature of how we minister that yes we preach the gospel and the truth of the gospel we also have to attend to social injustices and inequalities and we have to do that from the pulpit and from the from the core of the church because we have people that are that are that are leaving the church even in the black church uh that are that are not the iss various issues of injustice are not being spoken to uh and especially with pastoral competence in terms of counseling and awareness to historical

trauma and so uh and she also talks about the the the purpose of lament and also towards shalom so that would be that's good that's a really great uh going to be a great conversation and chapter as well and then the other one is dr piniqua day from gordon comwell and she's coming at it from an old testament standpoint um and and she actually is looking specifically she's doing exegetical study on a on the passage about the daughters of zelophehad in the book of numbers and she's engaging uh these various strands of thought that we've

been talking about she's engaging you know evangelical conservative uh jesus of that particular story and also she's engaging uh like white feminist readings as well as black womanist readings of it and then again taking some of the positives and negatives comparing them and then presenting a gospelist reading of the story of zelophehad from the perspective of an old testament scholar uh who she is but and also a black woman who is uh again black and proud and also is um committed to the truth of the gospel and i want to give a special shout out

to that chapter in particular because um you know this is you know this book is one of again one of the few things in print that are that is actually done by black theologians and scholars that is again offering a um an alternative and again it's all love you know we got no no shade nothing like that we want to be in cordial graceful conversation with our liberationists and women's brothers and sisters um but at the same time we do want to present an alternative for uh for folks that are again wanting to have a

theological category of gospel list that is that is again uniquely and equally committed to truth and to justice at the same time and so what but i want to give a special shout out to dr dave's chapter because um this is actually one of very very few like it could even i don't even need one hand to count how many how many books in print there are um again another way to illustrate the the and i will say i mean with love and with respect but i will say that we do have a crisis and

i do want to appeal i do want to appeal to um to the to the black christian community and especially to the apologetics community that again we are aware of hebrew israelites we are aware of comedic we are aware of you know black islam we are aware of black atheism or secularism all these different movements in the community many of us are aware of it and again it's we we of course want to approach these different uh concepts and ideas with love and with grace but we do also have to boldly declare the truth but

again i wanna i wanna i wanna bring people in and cue people into the reality that that people might not be aware of that the majority of black theologians and bible scholars in the academy do not believe in the gospel do not believe in the universal truth of jesus christ that is a crisis y'all i mean again the meacham school of hymeno is the only black seminary that is offering graduate level theological education that is that stands on the authority of the scriptures like the uh you know other black seminaries do not and so that's

that is a crisis we have a crisis the black community in black church is being misrepresented in the academy with a with a with a with a concept that's called black theology but that if you read it and again that's the other thing there's a there are dozens i'm talking about there's i could kind of one hand how many how many scholar how many scholarly books that are actually engaging and pushing back uh respectfully pushing back on the dominant liberation uh theological paradigm there's a only a small handful but if you just google book search

womanis theology black liberation you will find dozens upon dozens upon dozens of books that are again coming from that other from that that mainline standpoint and so that's really what we are trying to do is provide an alternative and to boldly push back um and so but also not leaning upon white evangelicalism at the alternative but again the the the gospel of jesus christ and also the the great reflection of that gospel which is the black church and so that's but again i wanted to give it i want to make that general appeal for folks

to enter into that and really prayerfully be uh engaging in this it really is an apologetic issue but also i want to give a special shout out to dr dave's chapter it was why i mentioned that because her chapter this book i mean if you know get it and read everybody's chapters but i want to give a special shout out to that chapter because um her chapter is the first first academic work in print by a black woman who is a scholar of bible and theology that believes boldly and unashamedly and openly in the universal

truth of the gospel there is not there i mean somebody tell me if there's some if there were i to my knowledge i do not know of one other even article book chapter or book that is written by a black woman scholar of religion and theology that openly declares their truth to the absolute their commitment to the absolute truth of the gospel so this is historic this is his story even just for that alone let alone all the other great chapters in the book so definitely be uh looking forward to her interview as well and

all of the all of the interviews um you know it's going to be it's going to be dope awesome and i hope y'all will be toning in because the whole uh next after this one the next three weeks of podcast episodes will be uh all around um gospel hama note uh and uh that is similar to what we did uh for through um uh reading uh reading while black i'm sorry i'm about to get the book title wrong but we'll be doing that same thing here um and i'm so excited for you all to hear

from all the scholars over the next few weeks vince is there anything else you want to share about the book uh before before we close out oh no just um you know i guess the only other thing i can i can say real quick is uh the title um you know this is the the you know when we say gospel hyman note um i appreciate you asking lisa because yeah the the title is uh really um you know just to let people know the word hymeno uh it actually is an ancient uh east african word

that's it's a word that's used in various east african languages especially in like ethiopia and eritrea uh and uh it means it means belief but it actually means a lot of things it can be translated it's a very pregnant term that can mean belief or doctrine theology or it can mean lifestyle or conduct it's a very holistic term and again it speaks to the holistic nature of the black church both in africa and in the in the in the states uh again is that there's no separation between uh you know um horizontal righteousness and vertical

righteousness as well and so uh but we're using that term and and you know there's various terms because folks that have and and folks that have been in theological education know when you go when you're going to higher ed or any kind of actually higher ed you get just inundated with you know uh foreign sounding um european terms in various languages german french greek latin and and and we accept it because it's like oh that makes us feel more fancy and refined if we say things like zits and laban or terminus antiquim or or or

um you know uh hermeneutics or exegesis or perikeresis or you know kenosis or whatever we use all these all these different foreign terms and it makes us feel fancy uh but but again and that's cool that's fine but um but again uh as children of the african diaspora and as uh people of african descent from across the continent we also want to submit that we should also be drawing upon and engaging with our african ancestry as well and terminologies especially those like like east african languages words like hymeno that have actually been used to translate

the bible and write theological literature uh since the beginning of the church just stretching back just as long as greek and even earlier than than theological literature in latin and so we you know we also submit that we should be uh doing that's another way that we are trying to decolonize uh our theological discourse by not always being dependent on european concepts and so that's where we add that word hymeno but we're also adding the word gospel and that that being the the framework of being gospelist um and again what it means to be gospelist

is uh is is really just again adding theological framing to the live theology of the black church that again since you know ever since slave days and you know segregation and civil rights and even now you know you know modern civil rights that the black church has by and large been committed to truth and justice and that's what it means to be gospel list and the and it's also a shout out to gospel music and the the idea of the gospel being holistic in and of itself um you know it's the power of god unto

salvation and so um that's that's really what the whole you know it's and it's also kind of meant to be african-american as well as rooted in african roots at the same time is just a little bit about the the title um so folks can can engage with that a little bit thank you so much for your work on this make sure you all get this book it's available on amazon and i think you and my website as well um so make sure you get that and tune in for the next a few episodes also before

we let you go vince how can people get in contact with you on social media i know so uh by the grace of god you'll be joining uh uh instagram but uh you're not there yet but we're where can they where can they uh get in contact with you yeah yeah that thank you the lord the lord used you lisa to to to kind of to prob me i gotta i'm getting a little old so i gotta get relevant so i'm getting on i'm gonna get on the insta but but i am on facebook and

uh and and i'll be you know putting stuff there uh and you mentioned lisa you know we we we had the opportunity to collaborate also on on another project on the bis rot and uh i know we'll probably talk more about that at another time and uh but then i'll just put that up there and so you can hit me up on facebook and i'll be on the insta soon i'm on twitter uh and then also you can definitely hit me up uh find out whatever we're up to uh on the meacham website uh nbachum.org

meacham.org and definitely you can be hitting us up for upcoming events that we're doing different theological symposia and and presentations and then when things open up we'll be you know even be doing other things as well so you can hit me up there as well awesome well thank you so much uh vince uh dr von too it's been a pleasure to have you on and i'm excited for the series of conversations you have following this one um thank you all for tuning in to another episode of the g3 project remember you can get our online

course take an online course get our ju3 project curriculum or donate to the g3 project all at g3project.org and also uh the new free ebook uh by dr bantu the bizrod apologetics and african charms which people are loving we're getting rave reviews from that so shout out to dr bontu for all his work that he put into that and um he wanted it to be a blessing to you all um free of charge so get that in time for christmas as our gift to you um at g3project.org and there's a tab at the very top

uh that you could click right to that um there were some kinks at the beginning but we got that all straightened out so we're good to go um with downloading that um you can catch all our past episodes at ju3project.org and remember here at the g3 project we're helping you to know what you believe and why you believe it grace and peace god bless [Music] you