Why Modern Dating Feels So Awful - Sadia Khan

why did you get banned on Instagram actually to to be fair I don't know fully but what from what I did some digging and I found out there was a um only fans content creator who felt like I was pushing a narrative that goes against sex work pornography and only fans and so she pulled some strings managed to get it banned I also pulled some strings managed to get back on but I'm sure with my big mouth I'll get myself in trouble soon so I'm going to make a vow and I'm glad you're here to

witness it that I'm going to try and stay out of trouble because I don't want to lose my Instagram it's actually a really great platform okay well we'll we'll see we'll see how you get on after today so one of the things I've noticed recently is this sort of widespread belief that love is it's toxic why do you think these sort of modern representations of female stories are so devoid of love you know looking at the Barbie movie there's these previews of the Snow White movie coming up Rachel Ziggler Zigler doesn't really look like she's

Pro love what do you think is going on well I think the debise of marriage and long-term relationships what that means is with relationships a bit like when you watch a movie and the whole movie can be great but if the ending is [ __ ] we'll say movies are [ __ ] that movie was awful similarly if the ending is fantastic you'll say that whole movie was great usually the people pushing this narrative have just come out of a negative relationship so they Define the entire course of love and the entire course of relationships

by their particular ending and if the ending was terrible love is terrible and they label it like that and they also like to run with a narrative that my ex is a narcissist is their favorite phrase on the planet at the moment what that does is kind of devoid us of the responsibility in causing that toxicity blame it on someone else and then blame love as a separate entity as a cause for our pain when really it's our behaviors so the love isn't toxic it's how we behave in love and how we behave when vulnerable

that creates toxicity but it's easier to just say that love is this really dangerous emotion and we should avoid it at all cost and always keep our armor up just in case love comes at us and kills us when really it's our poor decision- making or our behaviors that cause love to be toxic yeah I it's strange to me that it appears to be like a top- down narrative as well it's not just individuals rejecting love it's also in movies it's in culture as well yeah and I I do I do think there is you

know there is a lot to be gained from convincing people that love is toxic and you don't need it because Independence breeds more customers whether it's on social media media whether it's on porn sites whether it's on cosmetic surgery Independence creates customers so I think that it makes total sense from a marketing perspective to Just Breathe the idea that love is no longer necessary I saw a lot of interviews from the star of Snow White where she was almost making Digs at what is actually quite a sweet fairy tale but trying to make it into

digs and I just thought um I'm guessing The Narrative of seeing love is weak is being propagated in the culture today I don't know yeah there's a a quote from that interview she's not going to be saved by the prince she's not going to be dreaming about true love she's dreaming about becoming the leader she knows she can be the prince in the original movie stalked her what why would you sign up to a film if that's what you believe was the message behind it I'm guessing because here's what they're taking is I'm not saying

Disney movies were great for our perception of love either but the idea of mocking connection and mocking and let's say for example somebody does save you and you're in a bad position but they do save you why is that so negative if somebody's going through something and you find a partner and they help you heal and you both help each other heal why is that a negative thing I mean I I I maybe I've got it wrong but the the narrative I'm getting is it's almost seen as embarrassing to fall in love when really it's

an essential component of um of our life we all need it it seems to me the advice for men suggests that Falling in Love Makes You irrational and weak and for women it makes you subservient and dependent and it's almost the opposite of what both sexes want to have right there's a trend of wanting women to have their own independence at the moment like more power to them and there's a trend of wanting men to be able to stand up for themselves more and love is being positioned as the antithesis of the thing that you're

trying to get yeah well love is seen as suffering and here's the thing there's a big difference between U pain and suffering like pain is just things that happen in our life like let's say the person you love passes away or you have you can't have a baby that that's pain uh but suffering is the emotional consequences of our poor decision- making now if you feel like love is suffering for you have a look at your decision- making if you're becoming weak but if you Choose Wisely be you won't see it as being weak you'll

see it as being a com compatible and you see it as being uh compromising but if and if you're becoming subservient if you choose the right person you won't see it as a form of abuse but if you're making poor decisions of course love is going to be a form of suffering but suffering is a reminder that you made wrong choices yeah I was watching this baggage claim video earlier on she's great and she talks about this sort of common anti-love Trend among she calls it feminists uh a a general disinterest in emotional connection with

men this is this sort of plague that she thinks going on at the moment um I agree and I think it's found um just to kind of even out the playing field it's also found amongst the red peel men and um like we spoke about before when you feel like you can't access something the best and quickest way to defend your ego is to pretend you don't want it so to when you feel like you're not worthy of love and which I really think is a a manifestation of low self-esteem when you feel like you're

not worthy of love the quickest and easiest way to feel Worthy is to pretend love is terrible pretend love is toxic and I see this a lot in red pill men and really high like proud feminist both cohorts tend to be people who personally probably believe that they're not desirable to the opposite gender so the only way to get rid of that feeling of like being undesired is to pretend you don't desire the opposite gender so I see it both and they're almost a perfect match for each other that bluehead you know feminist and that

red pill guy they're almost a perfect match because they both almost have the same pathologies when it comes to their understanding of love so they they should get together yeah that would be a very interesting relationship to observe yeah I um there's this idea called the inner Citadel that people Retreat into if you can't get what you want you must teach yourself to want what you can get right and that's kind of what you're describing you know if I tell myself that uh all women are awful then it doesn't force me to try and get

into a relationship and therefore I don't need to feel the pain of heartbreak if I tell myself that jobs are completely pointless then I can sit in unemployment and not be concerned about not making progress toward my goals exactly but the problem with that is it prevents you from fulfilling your potential in life human beings are designed with the potential to love and nurture one another and whenever we cap our potential whether that's through like we cap our potential physically emotionally psychologically anything that involves capping our potential will lead to a slow and steady depression

that will signal to yourself that you're not fulfilling your potential and it will come out and manifest as a form of depression so when you kind of ward off love you're warding off your own full potential and therefore you will see an increase in your depression and anxiety they even find studies where women when um they hold their partner's hand during labor they experience less pain that's how much we're designed to be in love it's actually a a pain relief it's an anti- anxiety they found loads of studies where they see uh people that you

know sleep with lots of people in a communion they sleep better they don't have any like micro Awakenings in the night so we're our body craves it whether you psychologically convinced yourself you don't want it your body will still speak to you and tell you that you need it so unfortunately it doesn't work the micro Awakenings thing is really interesting I remember learning it from Johan Hari that it's basically a um it's like a measure of comfort that people have in safety right so um 15,000 years ago you have gone out hunting and you decide

to sleep in a cave that is away from where you usually would it's adaptive for you as this nomadic person away from home to not go into quite as deep sleep because you can't be quite as assured that this particular location is safe it's one of the reasons why people get such bad nights sleep in hotels yeah because even if the room is quiet and it's dark and there's no LED blinking and room service doesn't come and accidentally knock on your door it's still not your house and we have this inbuilt micro Awakening where you

just come back up the threshold of Consciousness and then dip back in again yeah two things that are interesting if you have the sound of a crackling fire or the sound of snoring dogs both of those reduce micro Awakenings oh wow fire would have scared away predators and the dogs would have been an early warning system oh amazing so that well I I I read the same thing with J Harry's book which is fantastic um was it lost connections is that the right one and yeah it says the same thing evolutionary wise were designed to

sleep with others because that creates a sense of um safety against predators so when people come to me and they have insomnia they have depression the first thing I ask is what are your connections like what is your relationships like with other people and they convince themselves they don't want a relationship but I do understand there's a part of me and I've spoken about this a little bit with when I was speaking to my clients I kind of I can understand why the lazy kind of man that feels undesirable is avoiding relationships because there's a

lot of effort for very little return When the alternative is I can either watch pornography or I can hire an escort again little effort and a maximum return so I get from a logical point of view if I'm going to spend hundreds of pounds on a date and she might not even sleep with me I can spend half of that on an escort she definitely will but the goal of life is not to get sex it's to get connection and that's what they're trying to skip unfortunately have you reflected on the rise of escorts and

sex work I think it's pretty fascinating to look at the psychology of the women who do it and the men who pay for it yeah well the women who do usually and I think it's probably less now but there's a a big history of childood sexual abuse and the reason why child abuse often then becomes monetized sex work is because when we are violated as a child men or women when we when something is violated from us the only way your ego kind of makes sense of what happens to you is to minimize the importance

and significance of what was stolen from you so if I was abused sexually if I then minimize the importance of sex and then take some control by monetizing it and saying I'm now in control of my body I'm either going to be hyper promiscuous or I'm going to monetize it what it does is minimizes the significance of sex and therefore I don't have to deal with the trauma I experienced I now see sex as just an activity and therefore if I was abused it's not that serious and so the psychology of them is usually coming

from a broken place and also the other thing that they struggle with is knowing what loyalty looks like in a relationship they don't see it as an essential component because they've monetized sex and um taken away the emotion em element to it so it becomes very difficult for them to be sexually loyal to their partner it's almost like they see sex as a bit as an activity and if they do it with somebody else why would that bother you they don't understand the process so they end up being quite emotionally disconnected very transactional with their

partners and the relationships become the the relationships don't really last very long unfortunately they're a void of emotions and then it translates into their parenting as well what about the psychology of the men who pay for it um the psychology of the man that actually goes towards it is usually he somebody who's highly avoidant to begin with there was some emotional disconnect in their parents in their household so when you want to CAU a beautiful woman in the real world she requires some emotional connection first and foremost or at least at some point now if

you've if you find it hard to experience emotional connection and you have the money to go from pornography to escorts you skip the emotional component and go straight to escorts it basically escorts are porn addicts with money yeah essentially that is for them and that low self-esteem that intense low self-esteem um with the men that pay for escorts means that they don't believe they can access a woman of that caliber in real life so let me at least pay in for it and therefore I don't have to experience rejection the reason why emotional kind of

Disconnect is so important for the customer is a man that understands emotional intelligence and understands a woman's emotions wouldn't feel comfortable having sex with a woman he knows doesn't want to be there a guy that normally has emotional intelligence will think oh God she's probably not enjoying this and oh God what trauma led her to get here I don't want to have sex with somebody who doesn't want to have sex with me but the man who skipped that emotional intelligence and just wants pleasure will not even think about the emotional trauma that got her to

this position and just think as long as she pleases me I don't really care what it took to get her here so that emotional disconnect in both of them which is why they often fall in love with each other fall in love yeah they often do end up together and this is what I really hate about the narrative that they tell you that on these red pill podcasts that men want virgins men want good girls the amount of successful men that fall in love with the escorts is because they allow him to not emotionally connect

but then still boost his ego which is what his dream come true whereas another woman requires that emotional connection before she can boost your ego so the escort is just providing him with an ego boost with bearing in mind his emotional disabilities that's interesting I noticed is it can I ask is it big in in America as well cuz it's huge where I live I haven't seen it I mean Dubai I think is a a very particular uh petri dish of of like unique dating maybe Miami I mean in fact I would almost be certain

withi L is London is getting there as well it's getting just as rampant in London as well I'm noticing that you were in all of these locations if you moved to Miami too you would be the color denominator I'm the problem maybe I bring I bring the heat so I noticed when I was at Uni and I was running a lot of nightclubs and we would go the only place that's open after 3 in the morning at the strip clubs right so we would go to the strip clubs and we would like we know all

of the girls cuz most of the girls would come out to one of our events on an evening time or whatever and I noticed a lot of the girls were struggling they would struggle to see men as like not genuine humans but because their job required them to see man as resources to be extracted from like anyone that's ever been to a proper workingclass strip club right there's still you know like girls in there I'm not derating the quality of the women I'm talking about the kind of culture that comes through they are [ __

] ruthless with how they take money from men like they're sitting on their lap they it's almost like a sales funnel they understand the tricks that they can use to get a man to go for a dance to get a man to stay with you and so on and so forth they entered the game like the arena of play is and if they've had too much to drink or they've done whatever like probably should G to the strip club with your credit card if that's the case but what happened on the other side of that

I noticed that a lot of the girls struggled to make an emotional connection with guys in their personal life and I think that trying to separate out this is someone that I'm supposed to have a genuine connection with and this is someone that I'm supposed to have a transactional connection with these two it doesn't surprise me that you can't that these are going to bleed into each other in the same has to be true with only fans um what happens with only fans and strippers and sex workers in general the pool of women that they're

left with with are men they don't respect the reality is women respect men with masculinity Alpha protectiveness um providing Etc now when you go into sex work you are left with firstly your customers are incredibly low self-esteem incredibly naive to even believe that you're going to be loyal to them and even if he's not your customer and he's your boyfriend but he accepts your sex work a part of you doesn't see him as powerful and a provider and doesn't see him as protective because if he was truly protective he wouldn't be with you if it

was a man that genuinely was an alpha man and wanted a good woman he wouldn't be with you so the type of men they truly respect wouldn't be with them so the only men they can they they definitely can't fall in love with the guy that is the you know giving them money the closest thing they get to that is the pimp that's taking money from them because at least then they kind of respect the fact that he he's using her in a way but to be manipulated by her she feels more powerful than him

and therefore can't respect him I wonder how many girls in strip clubs get into relationships with the bouncers and the door staff and the manager and stuff like that they end up more they're just more likely to be with a man that they provide for than a one that provides for them because a man that provides for a stripper there's a stupidity in that because you know this woman's transactional and yet you're giving her money she can't respect you but the man she has to pay for whether he's like a bouncer that's on half her

wage or he's just a personal trainer that she has to cover the rent for she's more likely to fall in love with him because at least he's not stupid enough to financially invest in me and a part of her unconsciously respects him more than the CEO that's going to buy you a house and a Range Rover CU she's like you're so stupid what have you come to reflect on about the psychology of [ __ ] shaming um it's a way of validating poor decision- making so when we use the word you're [ __ ] shaming

what we're really saying is stop pointing out the flaws in my flawed Behavior essentially we need a society filled with guilt shame and regret we need to be aware Ware of these emotions if we remove shame from our society and we call it fat shaming [ __ ] shaming essentially we find a way of normalizing what is abnormal behavior and when we do that we then become Reckless we need guilt shame and regret to help direct us into making proper decision- making responsible decision making healthy decision- making so whenever you hear the word that's fat

shaming and that [ __ ] shaming if the word before it is negative then the actual the concept is broken we'll get back to talking to sju in one minute but first I need to tell you about element stop having coffee first thing in the morning your adenosine system that caffeine acts on isn't even active for the first 90 minutes of the day but your adrenal system is and salt acts on your adrenal system elements contains a science-backed electrolyte ratio of sodium and potassium and magnesium that plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and

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drink LM nt.com slod wisdom to get a free sample pack of all eight flavors with your first box that's drink LM nt.com / modern wisdom well what would you say to the people who say we've had a sexual Revolution Sadia we don't need like girls can sleep with guys as much as they want to this is the new world get up to date now it's 2023 why should it be the case that that is negative shameful guilt riddled Behavior because you're the one saying that men are trash and yet you're sleeping with them all day

every day you're the it's the women that sleep around the most that will say men are trash the women in healthy relationships are not usually the ones saying that so if this formula is working why are you allowing trash to enter your vagina I had an idea I had a theory about the game theory of [ __ ] shaming and the game theory of simp shaming as well I want to teach you about okay so as far as I can see more [ __ ] shaming comes from women than it does from men right which

might be on the surface surprising but a bit more inspection it makes sense yeah the reason that more [ __ ] shaming comes from women than do from men is because women are invested in other women not lowering the price of sex too low yeah men would happily have the price of sex be zero right if you are prepared to give [ __ ] on the third day but I want to wait until the fifth date I'm also a girl and I want to wait until the fifth date it's in my interests to raise the

price of sex right by shaming anybody who is more sexually promiscuous than I am so the problem that women are trying to combat is women who give sex without loyalty or resources right they want to raise the the amount of loyalty and resources that other women use before they will give away sexual access now what I realized I think is true men simp shame for the exact same reason in the opposite direction so women are concerned about sex without resources men are concerned with resources without sex right so what a simp is fundamentally doing is

saying I will give away one of the the few things that men are supposed to hold in the highest value which is their ability to provide and I will give you that in return for nothing yeah right or in return for some messages through a platform or perhaps just financially dominated or sugar babying your way through college or or traveling or whatever it is that you want to do so I feel like the energy is very similar oh yeah between these two simp shaming and [ __ ] shaming both of them are trying to ensure

that competitors of the same sex don't give away the most valuable resource which they don't want to have the price of derogated too low what do you think absolutely it's a form of in seexual selection which in evolutionary psychology just simply means your competition within your sex now the quickest and easiest way for women to kind of beat the competition is verbal aggression and one of the things that [ __ ] shaming does is firstly of course like you mentioned it reduces the value of sex so you're competing with people who give it for free

but in addition by [ __ ] shaming is our way of unconsciously trying to put other men off that woman now people only [ __ ] shame attractive women you don't see PE there are many unattractive women who are also sleeping with lots and lots of men but what happens with women they only feel the need to shame when the person is a threat in any way shape or form you will not see unattractive women get as many trolls as attractive women online and you will not get unattracted women who sleep around get as many

[ __ ] shaming comments as sex because they scen as less of a threat they're not a threat so essentially what intr seexual selection does is it makes women use verbal aggression against one another but only if she's a threat if she's not a form of threat we actually turn it into praise because then it works to actually be friends with women because you can share breastfeeding child wearing in evolutionary terms Al parenting yeah but if she is any form of threat she can potentially take your partner and take your resources so whenever women are

[ __ ] shaming and stuff they usually focus on the women that they think that their partner would find attractive so they might not [ __ ] shame let's say for example it's an English Manch they might not [ __ ] shame the workers in Thailand and stuff like that but they would [ __ ] shame the local only fan scales because it's more of a threat so essentially we um verbally attack those that we see as a biggest threat and that will reduce the ability of us to secure resources from a man yeah very

interesting yeah and a sad thing as well because I get a lot of hate from women particularly from women saying that I don't side with women enough and I always just say you have no idea what it's like to be around women like I well maybe they do but for me personally I've only ever ever experienced negativity from women especially in the workplace so it's hard for me to really be like women are amazing women empowerment women women women when we I know from my personal experience we don't support each other at all yeah that's

it's a a ruthless sort of realization I had Joyce bennon on uh I've had Christina duranti on I've had Dr Sarah hillan you know a lot of evolutionary psychology researchers who are looking at intersexual competition Candice Blake and one of the things that Joyce looked at was the body language of female basketball teams she found that male opponents showed more physical affection to each other than female compatriots so men on opposite teams of a basketball court still nicer to each other were more like physically affectionate than girls that were on the same team and I

think that there's a lot of stuff going on with hierarchy how that works it's the reason whys don't their achievements academically if they know that other people are going to out because stepping outside of that hierarchy is something that's a little bit dangerous and that's kind of Ruthless right like it should be the case as a girl that if you succeed and do something well that you should be able to like be proud about it and you should be able to Proclaim it and other people should say yeah [ __ ] you did good well

done and one of the disadvantages men are ruthless to each other in very specific ways but so are women yeah it was and and the thing is with men they would hunt and gather tribes so it makes sense for them to have camaraderie and be part of a group for women we wouldn't necessarily use each other to go hunt we would only feel secure once we've secured the person that gives us resources so that's why married women tend to be who are happily in relationships tend to be less verbally hostile to ones that are single

so single women together are tend to be more verbally hostile to one another than when those that are happily spoken for because they're no longer in that competition zone so unfortunately the reality of um female and female empowerment it only only works if you're not threatened by each other the moment there's a form of threat they become very hostile and very aggressive and so it's very difficult to have a platform where you're trying to just educate people about human nature as a woman because you'll get very much a lot of hatred from other women so

it's not the easiest what's your what are your qualifications I'm a psychologist so what I did is I did a psychology degree then I followed by Masters then I actually just went into teaching so I did went into teaching but then I did Psych psychodynamic diploma so okay is Psych is psychologist not like a protected term do you not need have a doctorate or something for that you do if you're a research psychologist and if you're going to go into like Clinical Psychology okay yeah I am so I haven't done a doctorate I would like

to but it takes a long time got you okay talk to me about the problem with nice guys then talking about simps essentially what nice guys do is what they suffer with is not that they're too nice or anything it's just that they have incredibly weak boundaries when it comes to women they simply and not actually not just women it could be anybody what they do is they lack a lot of masculinity and what they do is they blame the fact that they're so nice as to why they can't get women but it's not about

being nice it's about a lack of masculinity and one of the best ways to establish masculinity is placing boundaries particularly with women when you don't like a behavior you don't roll over and allow it to continue and then give her more in order for you to get her you set a boundary and you have a willingness to walk away nice guys what happens is they don't like to exert their boundaries and they don't have a willingness to walk away so what ends up happening is nice nature becomes a reason for resentment because women don't like

it they actually feel angry when you're too nice to them because then they don't feel protected they feel like you're weak if you let a woman make all the decisions for you she'll slowly start to hate you because she'll feel like she has to raise you and she'll lose respect for you so you're better what we truly want is not a man that just is like chaotic we just want a man who we can trust makes good decisions he's not the nice guy he's the one that we'll submit to but the one that doesn't trust

his own decision- making and we have to do it and he comes across as being eyes essentially he seen as weak yeah overly pliable yeah is the term that I think about it's hard could you like how do you as a man make sure that you're nice and not weak like it must be difficult because in this day and age if you try and be like a bit more assertive that I'm guessing it gets a lot of push back it's it's hard for a man how I don't know I think he'd be surprised I think

that you know the line of acceptable behavior is way wider than most people think right you know you can be assertive in a powerful reassuring way without being a tyrant it's pretty it's pretty easy to achieve right I I I don't think that it's that hard but I also understand that a lot of people don't have a massive amount of firsthand experience yeah they're spending all of their time learning about things through the internet they don't actually have the you need to be skillful and Nimble right to be able flirting and dealing with with even

the same sex LEL and the opposite sex is like a delicate balance right it's a bit of a dance it's a bit of teasing is it too far is it too much like you know it's it requires experience and most people don't have the opportunity to develop that and it's really easy to have the willingness to walk away when you're somebody that has a lot of Alternatives and it doesn't just mean other women it could be a lifestyle that is alternative to being settled down but when you're somebody that doesn't have many Alternatives the willingness

to walk away decreases so I do understand it's very difficult for men to have that but without the willingness to walk away she'll look for a man that does have the willingness to walk away she'll look for a man that does have boundaries because we need them as women it's strange and I also understand that it must be ruthless to think oh well I would really like a nice guy maybe your last relationship is with some dude that was in very avoidant uh like masculine in a non supporting way and you think okay well I

I'll go for a nice guy I'll go for a guy that's a bit more pliable and a lot more agreeable and then if what you're saying is true and you end up resenting them you go that that wasn't what I wanted either so it must be difficult it must be difficult for essentially what we truly want is a man whose decision making on his own is one that we can naturally submit to what I mean by that is if I have to tell you to do this that and the other and you listen to me

I don't respect you anymore because if I had to tell you and you listen to me and I'm better than you at making decisions I'm more powerful than you I don't feel protected you simply have to be a man that could literally take a girl by a hand and lead her into whatever lifestyle you is but she feels safe in that knowledge but if you're the typee of guy who's like second guessing himself if you're second guessing yourself and then submitting to me it's a we automatically don't find that attractive we that can't be the

same for every girl though right there must be a spectrum of women it it works well for women who are planning to manipulate you so the women that are planning to manipulate and planning to use a man they love this guy without boundaries the one that's the girl that genuinely wants to have a connection with you build a family with you have a network with you she actually want wants you to have a backbone and wants you to have an opinion the one that's planning to not stick around too long the one that's planning to

be with keep in touch with another guy the guy a girl that wants an alimony as soon as the kids arrive that's the one that wants you to be this people pleaser bend over backwards do everything I say yeah what about people Pleasers more generally on the girl side and on the guy side well I guess they would be a similar match but what I happen with with two people Pleasers like where the woman is just a nice girl and the guys is are just a nice guy they don't create an authentic connection cuz neither

of them are giving each other the glue or the vulnerability to attach one saying I'll just do what you want the other one okay I'll just do what you want we don't know each other we're just a comfort blanket but one of them at least has to be a bit dis disagreeable to create that connection give you that kind of glue to attach to so unfortunately two people PES don't usually end up together did you watch succession no I didn't okay so it's pretty cool it's this series on HBO and I think it's really early

on maybe the one of the first few episodes in the first season and this tyrannical father is pointing at his own only daughter who's just got married to a guy who's very pliable at least for the first few seasons unbelievably pliable right um he is a bit of a social climber the potential future husband bit of a social climber he kind of wants to be a part of the crew so to speak uh and he says the dad is just [ __ ] going around the room like this is something I don't like about you

and this is something I don't like about you he points at sh of the daughter and he says you married a man that's beneath you because you're terrified of being betrayed a [ __ ] painful but in that moment I saw something that's very true you know the people that are scared of losing their partner a lot of the time will date down aggressively date down because they know that they're so far ahead of what that partner would typically be in a relationship with with shiv it's largely resources and money and access which is kind

of strange because the Dynamics flipped typically from the way it would be but um yeah that just that really it's like one of the most brutal insults like it insults both of them at the same time with one thing you married a man that's beneath you because you're terrified of being betrayed and it's very true a lot of women and men um use that strategy but the problem is you almost guarantee the divorce if I marry someone beneath me to prevent him cheating on me that doesn't change the other aspect that is required for a

healthy relationship which is bringing equal value to each other's life and when one feels like they are married Ben below it it doesn't work out either the true connection comes when you both bring equal value and you don't and you choose to be with each other rather than you know he can't do any better or she can't do any better eventually that catches up because a person with low self-esteem who feels like they've you know been punching eventually starts to get so much low self-esteem that they might seek external validation so they might be more

likely to cheat or more likely to dis uh to betray you because at some point they can feel that you know they know that you know that you're above them and that low self-esteem can create a desire to connect outside so unfortunately there isn't really a cure to that other than true connection but one thing I would say about people pleasing they say that it's linked to an absent father they say that people what has having a um a father figure does is that rough and tumble kind of play and that harsh criticism gets you

in the habit of speaking truth even if it's not the nicest thing to do whereas the absence of that can actually make you think that you're going to offend because it's easy to offend Mom it's harder to offend dad so when you get used to that rough and tumble kind of verbal um ations with fathers It prepares you for the real world of where you are less sensitive and more likely to be truthful rather than people pleasing what about the opposite then what about treat them mean keep them Keen as opposed to people pleasing um

again another tactic um that's very much advocated in current dating but is again counterproductive because the moment you treat people mean you filter out healthy people healthy people don't stick around to be treated badly that doesn't go in line with their template of relationships healthy people have a template of relationship that requires mutual respect now when they're with somebody who treats them mean they filter themselves out they understand they might work on it for a little bit but they recognize where they're not welcome um when you're treating them mean keeping them Keem you're attaching to

somebody that has incredibly low self-esteem who expects to be treated like this who will then when you start when you stop playing that game and actually want to commit to that person or particularly that girl she'll become volatile she'll self-sabotage because she's so used to being treated mean commit doesn't actually feel good it feels unfamiliar so she'll recreate some chaos in order to create the separation because treating the mean keeping them ke doesn't work unfortunately do you think men and women can be friends yes I do do you think they can be friends I've seen

it go both ways uhuh more times than not it seems to mess up but I it's it's not impossible I've got a number of friends who have managed to do that totally platonically do you have female friends do I have fale friends I do I do have some yeah but they're mostly kind of from the industry from podcasting uh uh Michaela Peterson's probably one of my closest friends on the planet great um a yeah so it's some it's I think it's tough I think it's tough what do you think makes it tough about having F

Well just that the line between what you have and what you're familiar with when it comes to guys and girls and the line of romantic Des desability is pretty fine and it only needs to be confused by one party for the relation for the Friendship to break down right it doesn't need both people to want it to happen if both people want it to happen the friendship turns into a relationship if one person wants it to happen the friendship's no longer a friendship you right so just you've got a lot of different ways and then

let's forget that let's say that one of either people gets into a relationship with someone that isn't in the Friendship then there's like two more people that could have a problem you can't see that that person anymore I don't like it when you go around her house I don't like it when you spend time with him so there's so many different ways that this can go wrong I understand and one thing I would like to point out about that because men can never understand why females can have male friends and but we tend to believe

that we can have male friends and the reason why we kind of think like this is because we would rather have somebody a a friend who secretly loves us than a female friend that secretly hates us and you guys don't have to experience that usually when men don't like each other they separate from each other women when they don't like each other they'll make reservations together and they'll still go on holidays together and they'll still keep in each other's lives so when We crave male friendships it's because you don't know the pain well not necessarily

pain that sounds a bit exaggerated but the difficulty in finding good female friendships they're not as easy for us where men if they play a sport together they can pretty much be friends for us you can do everything right with a female friendship all it takes is you know a birthday gone wrong or a boyfriend that they don't like or or a boyfriend that they both like um and the entire friendship is destroyed and there's a safety in a male friendship that we can't find in female friendships because it's very difficult to find women that

are totally not threatened by you in any way shape or from by other women and that's even when you're I'm not saying just when you're attractive even when you're less attractive you still have friends similar level of attractiveness so there is a form of threat even there uh so that's the first thing I think women can why women can have better friendships with men the other thing is I just think if you are a woman or a man of value beyond your sexual kind of um proudness if you got something other to offer isn't it

natural that men women old young everybody's going to gravitate towards you and want to be around you I just think it's natural it's a natural consequence of being a valuable person is that people gravitate towards you in the male and female form they will gravitate towards you so to kind of have an arbitrary role that you can't have male and can't have female it would only work if your personality is limited if you have a limited personality if I'm a girl that only talks about hair and makeup of course I can only have female friends

but if I'm a woman that can have a lot of different types of conversations it's natural to be able to connect with different type of people there's two things that makes me think about first I had the director of relationship science from hinge Logan URI on the show about a year and a half ago uh and she taught me about um people confused spark in the beginning of a relationship for something special without realizing that some people are just Sparky to everyone yes and that was a really interesting insight and it's kind of like what

you're talking about here right that if you're somebody that's interesting and trustworthy and of high value in the world people are just going to gravitate toward you because you're a nice person to know you're useful you're cool you're fun to be around you're interesting right so there are certain people who just suck others in right now the second thing have you heard of the overperception and under perception bias of Attraction so this is really interesting it's out of evolutionary psychology so men over perceive the level of attraction that they believe women have toward them and

women under perceive the level of attraction that men have toward them it's to referred to as a failure of cross- seex mind reading and this shows up very reliably in the data David bus put this out in bad men or Men Behaving Badly depending on which country you're in this is why a boss or a co-worker will maybe make an ungainly move apart from like the creeps like Harvey Weinstein like that make anain move because they will believe that oh yeah you know her eyes always linger on me she always makes it to the water

cooler at the same time that I do she's always in the the printing her stuff in the cupboard the same time that I do as well maybe I should try and ask her out yeah it is much more useful for men to have a smoke alarm that goes off a lot and is wrong a lot but is right every so often because the price of missing a potential signal is really high and the cost of noticing a signal that wasn't there is essentially zero right the reverse for women in speed dating they did this they

put men and women down at a speed dating event asked both of them how attracted were you to the other one women regularly rated that they were way less attracted to the man than the man thought and the reverse Tru this is the failure of cross- seex mind reading and it explains so much about the world that men and women inhabit because we don't inhabit the same world I don't see my interaction with you the same way that you see your interaction with me and this reliably smeared across an entire population is why men and

women don't understand each other because we do not have the same brains and we don't see the world in the same way you know but when I do deal with uh clients who are you know men who are very lonely and um who struggle with female connection I do ask them do you have any female friends and the answer is invariably no and I always say that you need them and they're like no we shouldn't be friends men and women can't be friends and I said but they training ground for women in the real world

because when you have female friends they teach you what things upset women what things up make them happy what they mean by when they text slowly when they text fast when they don't text at all they teach you so much that you can't learn from women directly because when a woman is in love with a man she can't help but play stupid games because it's part of a protection strategy so what she'll do is say she's done when she's not done or say she doesn't want to sleep with you and she doesn't want to sleep

with you she'll say the opposite of what she truly means but having female friends helps you understand this human ology behind a woman in a way that experience direct experience with them won't so that's why I actually say because so many of my male friends would be like this girl just did that I'm like oh that means she wants you to do you translate you can see the code not the matx the code because we speak in code yeah well outside Destiny who you should speak to at some point because I think you guys who

I think is great by the way Destin's fascinating dude I think is fantastic very very very very big fan of Destiny he said that someone asked him what the best piece of dating advice he is he could give to guys and he says during High School have lots of female friends he apparently just hung with this big group of guys and girls and had tons of female friends and did exactly what you said we'll get back to talking to sard in one minute but first I need to tell you about Factor if you are too

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growing up all my friends were men and I still have a a really large circle of male friends my birthdays every year my birthday if there's a table like this 80% of would be my male friend is that not an Islam thing though rather than like a friend thing as in like why you just in as far as I'm aware the typical Muslim family would have like the [ __ ] uncles are over and all of the rest of it yeah we do have a big male dominance in our in our world uh technically we

shouldn't really be interacting opposite genders I know I shouldn't be but I do I'll be honest I har so I do and I have a Hu and then but the thing is what it meant is it I have a plethora of understanding about the male psyche that I could never get from a textbook a lot of people will say to me when it comes to my content online they say you have a very unique perspective how do you know this and I said honestly it's because I have so many males around me and I have

an interest in them so I'll ask loads and loads of questions I'll understand their relationships I meet their girlfriends and I understand so it gives me upto-date data about what's going on with men and but I am I am biased because what happens is I naturally only know men who are confident but I don't know what the psychology as much of the guy that's stuck in his mom's basement and addicted to pornography and I think I'm learning that by how triggered they get by certain conversations online so I just think it like Destiny said it

definitely does give you a framework of understanding the male brain that you can't get through other women that would be an unbelievably unpopular piece of advice to give to a lot of the manosphere to say that one of the best things you could do would be to be friends with women so that it's a low stakes training ground for finding a a partner down the line because it's kind of common advice that you don't need any women in your life that like all you need is your boys what could I ever get from a woman

etc etc there was this um massive debate did the sexual Revolution fail that happened this week in LA and one of my friends Louise Perry was on one of the sides Grimes was opposite her uh and Tim Dylan was there it was mediated by Barry Weiss and um Rob Henderson one of my friends tweeted this earlier on it's amazing says there's lots of discussion at the sexual Revolution debate about whether the revolution failed men or failed women or helped men more than women or helped women more than men nobody asked whether the sexual Revolution failed

children people already know it's too depressing of a topic yeah absolutely accurate it basically failed both genders but when you fail both genders you fail children because they're the remnants of two broken people so I think uh it's massively failed children but I think in some ways it's definitely favored the man that has no desire to invest and have responsibility that's the only man that favors from this is he gets a bunch of women to have low enough self-esteem that they will be able to allow him access without any investment meanwhile while he's getting he

can then go on to meet the girl he actually wants to be with whilst this girl is happy to come at 4:00 a.m. after a night out so it's the opposite of feminism it's allowing men free Reign Over females and whilst investing very very little I don't know who tricked women into thinking that this is beneficial but whoever did is probably a man and then down the line from that they've also managed to trick women into believing that it's fine for the guy to stay at home and play video games and make sure that the

sandwiches are done all day you can go out and earn the money yeah I mean it's like it's such a Trope but people make these funny tweets online about how the patriarchy is so powerful at cond women into providing for men as well yeah and the other thing that I know I spoke about this quite recently is the um like the pushing the bisexuality which only again benefits what's that I haven't heard you talk about this well in pornography there is a lot of emphasis on girl on girl and there's a lot of Threes Sims

and so on and so forth and in my personal experience seeing a lot of straight women engage in threes Sim activities primarily to please their um the man but they'll convince themselves that they like girls but they only seem to like girls in the presence of their partner that suggested the threesome and they only seem to like the girl that their partner had an insight into selecting and then and you know it's not true bisexuality because when their husband or their partner is not there they no longer have this interest in women and also when

they really care about the guy they don't engage in the threes and I know when they love the guy a lot they don't want to share him but if you were truly bisexual you wouldn't have that jealousy because you'd be like this is an equal playing field I also get to touch the girl but what I think that's happened is um the rise in kind of experimenting sexual experimenting is again only benefiting men I know so many men that are in open relationships where he can sleep with other women but she can't sleep with other

men but she can sleep with other women who benefits from that he get so the presumption is that they're not actually B seual right it does seem looking at some of the data like women are more bisexual than men are genuinely bisexual at least self self-identifying outside of relationships but yes I would I would agree that I was surprised with this rise of the one-sided open relationship and in Austin there's a lot of marriages where we're open but it's only girls and it's only one we're together I maybe maybe this is I would be curious

what the data would be amongst women who've never watched porn and their level of bisexuality I would imagine women who have never watched porn they B they they have lower rates of bisexuality than women who are addicts or watch regularly and who are partnered with men who also make the suggestion about threesim I would wonder how many women who without the external influences because we've been taught for many many years in the recent data that homosexuality and bisexuality is innate and it's something you're born with but if the Advent of pornography increased it then how

it must have some external forces behind it yeah well there's one of the legitimations for this is the left-handedness argument and it's used for Trans people but it might apply here it's kind of a useful frame so I'll tell everybody in it let me Spin A Yarn so during the Middle Ages people who were left-handed was seen as being touched by the devil they were seen as being witches right uh so it lots of people who would have been left-handed to hide their left-handedness they weren't their true selves as the world began to realize that

being left-handed wasn't associated with being a witch or a wizard that was relinquished and I think the percentage went from less than five to around about 12% of the population is Left-Handed that's they're being their true selves yeah there is an argument made that one of the reasons one of the justifications for an increase in trans youths and trans adults is that previously the judgments of society created a glass ceiling that made people keep it away because they were worried about being judged now that the Judgment has been released I'm free to be my open

and honest self um in terms of transgender that doesn't explain the the suicide rate still being exactly the same despite the world now accepting it so there must be an underlying mental health concern that may have then be a precursor to the gender kind of not identifying it in terms of bisexuality what I would then ask is if we have now removed the stigma from bisexuality why are not more men saying to their wives can we add a man to the mix can we have it where you know you can sleep with lots of men

and I can sleep with lots of men why is that not being seen as sexy why that is a strange thought experiment consider women there saying oh can your friend come and you two do things and I just watch that doesn't happen women are not sitting there telling their husband can you tell your friend to come over and you two just do I promise I won't get involved the way men do men are how do you think so I think that there's definitely an asymmetry going on here yeah with how men see their partner their

female partner being with another female yeah how do you think women would perceive their male partner being with another man there's no going back from that for most women there once he's got once he's for most women I'm not speaking of all women but once they see the man going because the the thing is women when they provide each other with sexual stimulation it's nothing really a man can't do also but when a man provides another man with sexual stimulation women can't compete with that it's a completely different experience so therefore we're like you don't

like you there's nothing I can do for you yeah you're at the wrong shop here son you have to go back to a bit with women I think when men are watching Another Woman there's nothing that they can do to each other that they he can't really get involved in there's something strange I I don't know why but it feels like a one-way street that goes in opposite directions a woman that's bisexual every man presumes that it's just a phase and that she'll go back from a liquid diet onto a solid diet eventually every man

that's bisexual yeah more men that are bisexual are considered to just be in the closet but have not fully committed to doing it yet and I don't know where this comes from I have no idea whether or not this is actually shown up in the data there's definitely more bisexual women and there's more gay men yeah I know this but I from speaking to bisexual men they say that they if they are bisexual end up just choosing homosexuality because I know women don't really accept bisexuality in them that's interesting so it's not necessarily what they

want it's what they can get in my experience of working with bisexual men usually the bisexuality is not always but can be linked to some childhood sexual abuse with childhood and the data also supports this and the rates of J sexual abuse that leads to bisexuality in men is higher than amongst um heterosexuals so usually what happens is they may have experienced some abuse by somebody of the same gender now what happens is as a result of that experience it still creates a template of sexual desire that they don't they they are open to exploring

as an adult as a way of reducing the trauma when we've been traumatized the only way that we think we can re UNT traumatize oursel is by voluntarily like re-traumatizing ourselves so they end up exploring a little bit or being a bit curious and stuff but maybe they were actually heterosexual but that trauma LED them astray and if they want to go back to being heterosexual women aren't as accepting and so they end up some brutal um it's a brutal situation that you get into because you have to either choose to be untruthful to your

partner if they ever ask about your sexual history or agree to open up about something that you're fearful about how they're going to respond it's kind of the the same as the sort of oneway Street of doing only fans or sex work as a woman that you are going to have to concede that in future you're either going to have to tell your partner and and deal with the potential ramifications of that or or you're going to have to not tell them and when it's a partner that they accepts it and knows about it he

usually with when it comes to the only fans is a PO somebody who's addicted to pornography and it almost likes that but the man that's addicted to pornography is very difficult for an only fans woman to be with because they're usually men who still require novelty and still require more women and so and so enhances the low self-esteem for her unfortunately there was this stat that I put in my newsletter this week involuntary childlessness is a male problem too 20 5% of men over 42 do not have children 5% more than women of the same

age group almost 40% have experienced depression 25% feel a deep anger there is a lot of publicity quite rightly about women and childlessness but men are very mute about this and that was in the guardian oh wow um and and I completely agree because one thing that men online their voice online to kind of Shame women is well you don't have kids you don't have kids but unfortunately who suffers more from when not when they don't have have kids what they find is women without kids and without marriage earn I think about 70% more than

men that don't have marriage and kids because marriage and kids gives men a a purpose and meaning that they can't derive from anything else it gives them the motivation to work harder it gives them the motivation to do those hard jobs that pay more it gives them a a will to live um with women we can still find connections with our friends and family and parents and we can we can spread out our connections but if you look at most men like if we look at your father and like you know in that generation without

their wives they're a bit lost I know my dad would not know what to do with his day if my mom wasn't around and as they age one of the things that doctors always say the first thing that as you as you get older and you go go to the doctors um they'll say to have you got a wife and even when my dad when they do a check have you got a wife they check because why because the rate of healing after surgery is faster and quicker when you have a wife and your rate

of recovery from cancer is better when you have a wife somebody checking in on you does a lot for a man because they don't get that from from their social network as much as women do so a woman aging alone I'm not saying it's a good thing but she's more adapted to it than a man aging alone who then starts to self-sabotage and actually kind of life becomes a slow suicide for them I had a look at Dr Robert waldinger the guy who is currently heading the longest ever longitudinal study of Happiness um and marriage

seems to add about four years of Lifan to a man for a woman it's round about the same um so men get you know for all of the marriage is a terrible deal for guys she's going to take everything in the divorce don't get me wrong you know there's a lot of divorce and it's it's it's not great for either party but the deal for men is really [ __ ] good you want to live four years longer like find a partner more and responsible more but one thing I would say is that the family

laws are so horrible in certain countries and I'm a big advocate for marriage but mainly because I come from a spiritual or religious background but from a non-religious background I can see why it seems like a death sentence to get the law involved and to get married because she can walk away with a lot even if like she was up to blame so I can understand where the fear comes from but you almost have to take that risk in order to get the reward of a stable responsible life I think the risk is the risk

is increasing and the reward has stayed the same but the risk can be mitigated by a good selection when you start trusting your decisions you'll be less likely to be fearful of these consequences but when you make poor decisions of course everything is a risk why do you think there's this generalized culture of anti children and family creation at the moment I wonder where that's stemming from I do think it's a sad reality I don't know where that's coming from I just think the reality is there's so many alternatives to having kids now you can

travel you can really become something if you want to become famous you can become famous you can travel the world you can make a lot of money you can do all of these things but you know if you speak to people who have even you know scored goals in the World Cup they'll still tell you that the best moment of their life is when their child is born so I think it's a really negative thing to place um to kind of put on society I think the reality is when you know that you're going to

have kids you have to take more responsibility of your life you have to save more money you have to look after your health it gives you a will to live now to remove that from you is a is a slow and steady self-sabotage when you don't have any children for the rest of your life and you think you're never going to have them essentially you could be a car wreck and no one's going to watch you whereas when you have children it's an automatic therapy you have to fix your traumas you have to fix your

self-sabotaging behaviors so you're depriving yourself of reaching your full potential when you completely write that off I believe but I could be wrong with that I you were preaching to the choir I think that it's really great all of my friends that have become fathers they've stepped up in a way that I I'm impressed by like they were they were hitters before and they're even bigger hitters now yeah which is why it surprises me that there is this generalized anti- an anti- family creation culture it's really good like sometimes you know and they even do

it with men that are in like you know uh in trouble with the law and stuff sometimes when they have children is the only way to get them off the streets because it's the only thing that gives them that Mo motivation that they can't find outside of it so if you are feeling that maybe it's you need to have a kid well I I understand what you mean as well that there is this kind of mass individualism um I think some of the most common reasons is to why people aren't getting into relationships at the

moment uh working on myself right now just don't feel ready uh sort of Bing my time so to speak super childish though it's just it's a focus on the individual um and it's very isolationist it's very atomized it's all about the individual on their own and don't get me wrong you know if you spend your time maybe you're working working from home postco um maybe your job doesn't actually require you to interact interact with that many other people or maybe you're all doing it all through slack and through Zoom you don't need to really leave

the house that much anymore you can door Dash your food you can Amazon Prime whatever it is that you need you can stay on the couch and watch Netflix we've become more isolated and I think that that Trend almost causes us to justify more isolationism uh and it also it's called extended adolesence a slow life strategy that Jee Tangi found and this is just never really getting the stage of growing up you know young people are getting their driver's licenses later they're starting work later they're moving out of the house later like the most common

living arrangement for men under the age of 30 is still being at home with their parents yeah and this is one of the things I I you know I get a lot of slack on for online because I talk a lot about age gaps and sometimes young women you know they go for older men and they'll say yeah but he's 40 I know I'm only 22 but at least he'll be more responsible and more settle down responsibility well maturity is not defined by age it's defined by how much responsibility you have and I always say

if he's got to 40 no kids no marriage under his belt he's chosen that Peter Pan lifestyle no 23 year- old is going to come along and make him up he's chosen to be that man are you sure you want to be with him you're better off with a 30-year-old that's got more responsibility than a 45-year-old who hasn't because if you think a number defines maturity you're lost the reality is is the amount of responsibility particularly responsibility and care for others so if he's supporting family if he's supporting an ex-wife or he was married or

he had kids it does something to men it kind of it creates a a level of responsibility and accountability that they can't get without that so I do always tell women um don't be afraid of being with a man that's had kids or a man that's you know been married they're better than the ones that have had no baggage because baggage is responsibility which is then accountability for a man do you think that the same is true in Reverse no unfortunately it doesn't work the same way with women not always it can sometimes but it

doesn't always work the same way because a women when they have children and good women with healthy women actually prioritize the children first and foremost and if she does one of the priorities is becoming then super cautious of the man that she allows to enter into the man's world and her if she's a really good mother she TRS to keep a good co-parenting relationship with the ex and a lot of men don't feel comfortable with that but the true good woman like the single mom that you should be looking for is the one that's got

a good relationship with her ex-husband what men do is they prefer the woman that has no contact with the ex and the kids have never seen the ex and they think oh I'll go for that girl at least the baby father is not around that's a signal that she deprives or prevents children from connecting with their father that's not a good thing that's not a green flag that's actually a red flag so what men are doing is sometimes they're selecting women and thinking she's got children but she she doesn't let the kids see their dad

and they're not in his life and he was a bum but what does that tell you about her selection process and what does that tell you about her ability to co-parent it's an insight into what would happen if you two broke up you won't exist for those children children that's not a healthy mother a healthy mother is who cheated on me he was awful he was in wreck but the kids need their father I drop him every Friday that's the healthy mother but men don't interpret single motherhood the way they should yeah do you have

any idea how fatherlessness impacts boys and girls behavior and what they what they look for when they grow up and start dating um with women they definitely here's the problem women have when they grow up without a father fig and they really feel it is they'll always a lot older men so they'll be 17 18 years old and they're looking at the 30-y old and the 35y old and they're getting older and older and there's a huge gap between them now my experience of working with women that go for these age Gap relationships is they

are in survival mode without a father they need that safety and comfort and the conversations that we normally find really boring coming from our father about mortgage rates and like you know saving your money they sexualize those conversation so when they hear it from an older man they're like oh he's so responsible it's they're not used to it so they end up initially going for that older man and falling in love but once they feel safe and they've got the money and they got the safety they then look for men around their own age they

end up it's like it's almost like having a safe secure base once you've got an older Father Figure in your life then you go on to see what you're sexually attracted to but until you've got that secure base you're in survival mode you're looking for who can make you feel safe not who can make you feel who you're attracted to so they confused they blur the lines between attraction and safety and they end up looking for it in an older man but then cheating on him with a younger man you think that they over prioritize

socioeconomic status in that regard rightly so I understand why because they don't have a backup plan when you grow up with your father you know at some point he'll help you and things get rough or he'll leave something for you and stuff and it naturally creates a level of safety they don't have that safety and usually they if they come from a single mom home she's also encouraging her to look for a rich man because it benefits her as well yeah there's usually some kind of like support network okay you can come live with us

and so and so forth so they come from a culture of you know you don't have to love a man all men are annoying and they're difficult so just choose one that's going to give you a good life so they end up focusing on social Eon economic status but they also end up with men with low self-esteem because a man with high self-esteem at 40 years old would recognize he's got nothing in common with a 22y old who makes Tik toks all day he wouldn't have any intellectual intimacy so she ends up with an older

man with low self-esteem who when she does cheat on him will still take her back and so on and so forth who who pays every bill or whatever it is she so again she ends up with a man that she doesn't respect in the long run but really admires initially because he provides her with that safety she's been craving yeah you you told me about this book you'd been reading to do with parental alienation what's that well the thing is I was looking into parental alienation only because I see it so much going on but

one of the things um punishments women use for a man that's been that she feels has let her down is depriving her him of access to the children now the problem I see happening is with the children of such mothers especially the men of such mothers they go on to have very very abusive relationships so men who grow up with single moms who blocked access they end up with women who are very abusive either they're Unfaithful or they financially abuse them or they're just they're physically abusive they grow up with very they end up selecting

very abusive uh women and from my observation and from what I'm reading it looks like what happens is when you've been deprived of a father and you've only heard Mom's side of the story what happens is they put their mom on a pedestal they think Mom's women are the innocent victims of harsh men so what will happen is they pray to women that needs saving they always gravitate towards women that they can save and help and nurture and say oh yeah that man was terrible i've got you I'm going to help you I'm going to

show you what life looks like because I've been doing that to Mom my whole life the problem with those women is they are broken Beyond you you can't fix them most women can't be saved they they have't something broken that they need to fix up themselves but the man that thinks he can save her is the one that's a little bit more delusional and he gets his self-esteem from seeing her now love him so unfortunately he ends up going for very broken women that end up re abusing him and he he ends up not having

those boundaries that he needs with women so they end up in very poor relationships when they've been raised by a mother that blocks access to fathers you often hear about the reverse about women who look for the guy that's broken but I can fix him and I can hold on why do you think that happens we we hear it a lot with women it happens in men as well we hear it a lot in women because it's a huge ego boost knowing that a man used to be a player but for you he changed or

he used to be in and out of jail but for you he changed here's the reality you're competing with people's childhood not other women if I've got a man that's really broken and he sleeps around and he's doing drugs or whatever it is and I think I'm going to fix him and I'm going to be the special person I'm competing with his childhood traumas you can't compete with somebody's childhood essentially you're always going to lose now whatever caused that addictive behavior or that abusive Behavior still exists before you you are not the therapist and you

are not the cause of the wound so don't take on that role you're only going to hurt yourself the best thing you can do is support them while they heal it but to attribute his healing to you as a person is a form of narcissism you're wanting to feel good by his healing not for the sake of him healing but for you to get an ego boost to know that you could do it and it's not the way to do it I was looking at a bunch of headlines that had come out recently to do

with reality TV dating shows what do you think are the lessons that young people are taking about love given how many reality TV shows are to do with coupling up and breaking up and making up it's about winning yeah it's all about competition essentially what we've done is taken love and turned it into a game show now there's no way that won't have a chck or down effect on society what we're learning is is to cheat on them before they can cheat on you get to caser more and couple up before they can do it

themselves so essentially we're going into relationships we're treating our partners as opponents and who can win and the prize of this kind of competition is who can be the lonliest fastest who can create the loneliest lonely relationship faster who can get single faster so if I cheat on you first or if I don't text back vers or if I don't I win but what are you winning what's the trophy of these games the trophy is a lifetime of loneliness so essentially we've made the prize depress depression is the prize of depriving yourself of Love unfortunately

I mean you've got experience in that did you find that it became a competition while you in there so I was pretty bored for most of my of all of my experience on love Island I was also going through an existential crisis because I was faced with a bunch of people that I thought I was right I was adamant that I was this big name on campus party boy and then I go on love Island and I'm faced with people who are the role that I was pretending to be yeah and I'd just read Paulo

quo's The Alchemist as well it like the first book I'd read in probably a decade um so I was kind of in this weird out I had this weird outof body experience for a good chunk of that time where all of these things were going on and there was story lines or whatever and and all I was thinking about was this guy if anyone's not read The Alchemist by poo coo there's this young Shepherd boy going on a journey of self-discovery trying to find out who he is and that really really spoke to me at

the time and I was in the south coast of muor which is Spain and it was in the middle of summer and I was I read this book during the media lockdown week and then went in in this total [ __ ] fever dream um so my experience of Love Island I don't think is perfectly representative yeah some of the things that I did realize were that it teaches young people that love is a game to be played yeah that loyalty is both super important and also unbelievably disposable at the same time like think about

when love Island comes on TV in the UK I'm teamed such and such right like cardia or whatever like likeis like you know like whatever way yeah they they try and do that thing I'm team this and then as soon as one person decides they're going to move on typically if it's a guy he's being totally unfair if it's a girl maybe that dude was a bummer if he was cute or like sweet then that was her fault and she shouldn't have done it it's so it it it encourages people to make very quick decisions

to fall very hard very fast to have loyalty but only kind of have loyalty to someone who's likable yeah like a lot of people unlikable people deserve relationships too you know what I mean like it's everybody needs somebody um yeah it's it really does it's like a popularity contest even in there absolutely yeah of course of course because you know did you get real emotions like real jealousy and real anger or I didn't have a single romantic emotion during love Island but I had a lot of bromance no romance but a lot of bromance right

while I was in there I cried when I left because I was missing my boys like I didn't want to leave my boys behind and i' had this really intense emotional experience I'd you know spent a lot of time I'd really connected with guys while I was there but I I the girls were perfectly pleasant but I wasn't that affect your self-esteem in any way that it wasn't connecting with the girls or not really did you just find Val particularly I just wasn't I really was not attracted to any of them okay so it was

we kept on saying when the girls were coming in everybody had a type right and I I I don't think that they'd read necessarily all of the guys sheets and you can see that in the fact that there isn't a single relationship from That season that's still one no one no even the winners even the winners no W the winners last like less time than anybody else okay um So Married at First Sight have you seen this story I I am I'm a familiar with it okay so for the people that don't know the transgender

bride set to take Married at First Sight UK by storm transitioned age 21 at an NHS hospital before spending £50,000 on cosmetic surgery to be taken seriously as a woman mail online can reveal today Channel 4 viewers will see Ella Morgan 29 who was born Evan Morgan wed a male contestant and made a row over whether the groom was told first or not Miss Morgan is shown in the trailer for Married at First Sight telling her new husband her big secret after they married having admitted her transition has made her fear rejection after being treated

as a dirty secret in the past however Channel 4 has now revealed that they did tell the man in advance he would be marrying a transwoman it is understood that the man is furious with how the broadcaster treated him during the show and afterward but the beauty and fashion consultant from Bristol says she is determined to be the star of the show to shed light on the struggles and realities of being trans added we're not freaks or mentally ill I'm still just like any other girl okay going to be difficult for you to comment on

this one son it is going to be difficult I'm trying to see how I can behave and not offend but here here's the reality of it if I was even if I was born a woman or whatever and I had millions of Cosmetics procedures and I have a higher risk of uh depression because of the you know the lifestyle I've chosen uh a man has every right to know them and has every right to say it's not for me it's not for me I wouldn't be with a somebody who has born a woman because it's

just not for me I'm a heterosexual woman and I'm entitled to identify as that now um what I find the thing is if it's really painful to be transgender and it's a lot of suffering I don't think it's good for TV to kind of capitalize on that for views and and use that as somebody suffering as a form of views but I also say that it does it does make you different from other women if you're saying the trans struggle it was really hard for you in your childhood and you found it really depressing that

makes you different to to the woman that grew up in the body she identifies with so to say that you're on par with the typical woman is not true because you've gone through a different type of trauma that we haven't so essentially you're never going to be like a a woman not even just physically but also psychologically you're never going to be like a woman and it's okay to never be like a woman it's okay we the thing that I find difficult to understand about the whole trans debate is one for many decades we were

told gender is a social construct it's just this imaginary thing that we're telling people we've only been told that for about one decade yeah we've been told it's a a social construct everybody's saying it's a social construct the Liberals are saying it's a social construct but then if you say that you identify as the opposite gender they give you biological treatment now if it's a social construct essentially you're only identifying as a social construct you don't need to change your biology it doesn't make any sense it's like saying that your uh football team who you

support is a social construct I don't need to change my biology to be a man united supporter because essentially it's a social construct so if gender is a social construct why do we need to transition I think the the argument on the other side of the fence would be I want my outer appearance to reflect my inner experience then why not change your inner experience rather than your outer don't know whether they have control of that but that's no different to like for example anorexic will genuinely believe that they are the fattest person in the

world they identify as fat now the reality is I'm not going to give them a lipos suction so that their brain and their body are aligned I have to look at the psychological defect that caused them to be unaligned and focus on the psychology first and if that doesn't work then we can look at biological procedures but the reality is I don't see how when it comes to anorexic I get that there's you know self it's not healthy or whatever it is but at the same time we know the suicide rates and transgender is not

healthy either we're doing them a disservice by simply giving them a shortcut to biological procedures while skipping psychological interventions yeah there's I had uh Hannah bars on the show she did a big investigation into gids the gender identity something service that was at the Tavistock clinic in the UK that's recently been shut down and then kind of restarted again and then the restart kind of I think had some controversy as well and um there is an unbelievably high percentage of autism and OCD and other sort of co- Psychopathology type things uh in the trans community

and there is this big question that she asked which was are people mentally disturbed because they're trans or are they trans because they're mentally Disturbed yeah and there is a a question to be ask that if untreated autism or OT OCD or something like that if that ended up getting treated whether the gender dysphoria Downstream from that would dissipate and that's a I think that that would encounter in some of the real like Hardline trans communities I think that would encounter some challenges because they would say that almost by getting rid of the autism you're

denying the personhood of the transperson because it delegitimizes the gender dysphoria and almost makes it like how the light bulbs in here give off light but also heat it's like oh the gender dysphoria was a side effect of autism and we don't know we don't know the direction of of causality here but it's one of the most heavily contested highly Hot Topics would you be uh ostracized as like a a man that chooses not to be with a transgender woman in America depends what you're talking about I mean this discussion of are you allowed to

have your own preferences is fascinating right you know if you prefer blonds is that somehow prejudiced against brunettes and gingers yeah if you prefer tall girls is that somehow prejudice against petite girls like the the line between the question of are you are you being either transphobic or homophobic by not dating somebody who who is biologically the same sex as you but has transitioned it it seems like a slippery slope from there to just why shouldn't you date somebody that's self idas as that you know I don't need to do the external comparison do you

know Blair white you familiar with her yeah so Blair's a good friend I she looks more like a girl than a lot of girls do right but I don't know I if she was to get into a relationship with somebody and not open up about she hasn't had bottom surgery so it's a surprise it's waiting to visit you at some point yeah it's a fascinating discussion I do think that the not dating transitioned people is transphobic argument has kind of been and gone anybody that genuinely looks at that and says yeah you should date how

we tell you to date is it's again like does that mean that I have to date everybody why do I not have to be attracted to my video guy like do you know what I mean like I'm supposed to I'm allowed to have preferences and yeah it becomes kind of a self-defeating do did you ever hear about the study with Dr money and the twins um so there was two twins that went to hospital to get circumcised but they accidentally burnt the penis off one so what the doctors decided to do is raise a child

they were both boys but raise a child that had his penis burnt off as a woman as a girl so for the first seven years of life they just put her in dresses made her believe that she was a girl everything was like you're just a girl but as um the girl hit puberty she felt more and more like a boy and she she remembering being suicidal saying I want to be a boy I feel like a boy I want to play with like the balls and I want to play sports and So eventually they

told him the truth and he went back to being a boy because he just the self-discovery of your hormones but eventually ended up committing suicide because of the trauma so the whole idea of playing with people's uh gender especially when they do pre-puberty because that study showed that as soon as puberty hit in completely a boy again so if you try and block uh try like U pu like the hormones before puberty you're blocking them their self-discovery that might occur after hormones so it's quite a dangerous thing to do it's dangerous yeah talking about dangerous

things do you think that hot girls are more crazy always do you think hot girls are more crazy in your own experience as well I've been around quite a few hot girls but some of them can be very balanced but I give me your treaties on hot girls being crazy here's what it is with a very attractive women they don't get an insight into the average man and how average men behave they get an insight into men that are incredibly intimidated by their beauty or incredibly lustful after their beauty so they see men either kind

of ignore them so the quiet Good Guys either just kind of intimidated by them but the loud gregarious kind of adulterous men are after them so they'll see guys that will leave their wives to be with you they'll see guys that will uh drop everything to kind of you know even if their girlfriend's in the same room they're quickly sneaking you their number they'll see guys that will risk their job s you know if they're your boss to be with you so they see men as these huge Risk Takers that will do anything to have

sex with you so what ends up happening is she loses her naivity about a man she no longer thinks men are faithful she's seen so many men break up whatever they have just to be with you and just to access you she's seen so many men who break their back just to touch you so what happens is when her husband now says to her oh I'm just there's a new colleague at work her brain is like well every colleague at my work is always hit on me are you hitting on this girl or if if

her husband says I'm just going to the gym she's like well whenever I go to the gym somebody hits on me what are you doing so they end up being suspicious because they are privy to men at they're worse when they're sexually attracted to a woman they don't have that naivity that a more plain woman would have where she could walk past a guy in a bikini and he doesn't harass her she knows if she walks past a guy in a bikini drops everything so she sees men as more dangerous than they are and therefore

she thinks her partner is more sexual than he might be and as a result she tends to be more intense and crazy and less naive not necessar more accusatory I would say yeah because she uses her experience about the world to predict what everybody else's experience is about the world and in her defense beautiful women also it takes a certain level of confidence and a certain level of no fear rejection to access a beautiful girl so her pool of men tend to be the men that are more likely to be unfaithful wow that's interesting so

very attractive women are a selection effect for the kinds of experiences they have in life the kinds of interactions that they have with other women and other men so presumably they'll often see other women as threats well they well they've experienced other women seeing them as threats and they've seen the competitive nature of women and they've seen women because here's the thing with beautiful women if you walk into a room with a really beautiful women all the other beautiful women would now start looking at you thinking well there must be something about I'm sure they

look at you anyway but they would pay more attention because there must be something about Chris cuz she's unbelievable so what ends up happening is beautiful women start to see how disrespectful what other women can be they're looking at your man they're they're competing with you because to get a beautiful woman's man makes the other woman feel more attractive if you walk in with an absolutely 12 out of 10 and then you give me attention I now think I'm prettier than her so therefore I want your attention more than the guy that's with the girl

that's not that attractive so we see this competitive nature of women we see that we can put men women can put men on the map and they see that men are very soft and they give into Beauty quite quickly and easily so they lead to a trust issue that is harder to kind of overcome so interesting the psychology of an attractive woman is one that is very different to a psychology of a less attractive woman they're two different species yeah so you have women seeing other women primarily as enemies they're often going to be Frosty

to them U they're also kind of hyper aware of the power that they can bestow on the partner that they're with which probably makes them a little bit tentative about giving that man that power because if they pre-select that particular type of man you're putting him on the map yep and then you also said that these women being super attractive selects for a very specific type of guy that is sufficiently confident to go up and speak to you or men will make ridiculous and wild u-turns in their life in an attempt to get to you

which also gives you a pretty unrepresentative experience of what most men are like yeah and and then when the look start to fade it's it's a harder transition for them when the look start to fade from a woman who is quite plain she sees it as life when the look start to fade um with an attractive woman she sees it as disastrous because a lot of the power has gone so they might not always but they they might respond to it with a lot more insecurity especially after children but if she has good values she

recognizes that though the looks are replaced with family connection but she doesn't have good values and her identity is built on her appearance you'll see that she'll go through more and more extents to kind of um prove her attractiveness and that might lead to promiscuity so her identity can't be designed and around her looks it will make her very fragile it's rough being an attractive woman must be hard like genuinely it must be very difficult to try and go through the world because with men typically their value to the world doesn't wax and Wayne in

quite the same way you know it starts off low even super attractive guys will remain being attractive for a very long time forever like and you just have this sort of slow and steady increase presumably and then it'll dip out and then it'll start to even afterwards and when it dips you don't care it dips by that time you're so settled in life you don't care but for women it can dip a lot earlier and um there's a lot of talk about pretty privilege and pretty privilege this and pretty privilege that but there's lots of

disadvantages and the main thing is people look for your flaws a lot more what happens when you're not attractive is people can accept what you're saying and do doing and they don't really delve into it but when you're attractive there's an element of other women or even men saying well I bet she's dumb well I bet she's a ho or I bet they're looking for the negative so much more and then all they say I bet she's really arrogant and very vain so you almost have to work against people's negative assumptions of your character as

much as they make positive assumptions of your appearance they make lots of negative assumptions about your character so you're in a bit of a battle and then it's not as easy as it might look to other people I saw what I was a model for a decade and a half in the UK and I saw a lot of the girls almost counter signal they would turn up in the most slouchy clothes that they could um you know they would purposefully wear their hair up they would purposefully wear glasses um they wouldn't wear revealing clothes they

would uh try and act in ways that were um more bookish sometimes as well and this could just be their personality it could have been the girls that I was around but also think there might be something going on here that they're trying to counter signal I am more than just what I'm currently being paid for as a part of my career I'm more than just a pretty face I'm more than just a lingerie model I'm more than just someone that's supposed to smile and giggle and look nice on camera and is it hard for

men to realize that they more than that or is it hard for them to like do they can they compartmentalize and think that she's got more to question or do they do they get overwhelmingly like attached to her appearance so there's a big difference between Beauty and hotness and most models at least the ones that I was working with it wasn't sort of Glamour stuff or underwear stuff that much it was you know like fashion stuff it was like cutesy editorial Girl Next Door type thing so it was probably optimizing more for beauty than it

was for hotness okay yeah um and but certainly when it comes to hotness it's a [ __ ] reality Distortion field for men right and this is what we would say this is the word that was coming to my mind as you talking about this that the reality of a a very very hot woman is like a sphere that follows around her just distorting all of her experiences with women with men at restaurants getting into nightclubs with careers everything yeah the super hot sexy woman gets it probably the worst because they activate a man's short-term

mating strategies they have long-term mating strategies with who they want to family with and shortterm who they just want to mate with and they activate that in uh men so a really sexy girl will activate a man's short-term mating strategies and she'll also activate threats in women now women's use your threats um when they when they're threatened with a woman is to go prot well suggest that she's promiscuous so they might say to them to the men oh yeah but she's really promiscuous not realizing that actually makes her more attractive to them because they're like

well I'm already looking for a short term from M you trying to sell her to me yeah so they think that they're actually undermining her by saying she's so promiscuous and she's a [ __ ] and she's this that and the other but the man when his short-term meeting strategies are activated that's exactly what he's looking for so she ends up with men who just want short-term mating strategies and as a result she starts to see men as see disposable and therefore it can it can be really negative for the hot woman um it does

make sense about why it would be hard to have a normal a normal mindset I'm aware that Anderson effect yeah it's easy to throw shade like our hot girls crazy like it's easy to just throw shade at them but what this is why I I like these kinds of conversations because it really helps everybody to understand the experienced psychology you know the lived experience of somebody that's on that side of the fence and you can say yeah privilege the halo effect you know she's getting in for free at nightclubs and blah blah blah it's like

yeah but what if she's got zero female friends what if she can't find a female friend that doesn't see her as an enemy or an adversary or a competitor what if every single guy that she spends time with is terrified to speak to her or is it's just it's so interesting so on the other side of the fence do you think it's more difficult for successful or desirable men to settle down it's only difficult when they grew up without Val when they've got low self-esteem for men their success in with relationships is very much determined

by their self-esteem women can get a shortcut with their appearance and so on and so forth for men their self-esteem is either going to propel them into a great relationship or um prevent them from any kind of stability now if he grew up without any validation and not knowing if he was attractive what happens is his self-esteem is almost um blocked at that stage of life and then he can still be a sucker to women and still kind of accept the unacceptable simply because he wants to be desired but if he has good self-esteem and

good boundaries he will never suffer in relationships he just won't because he knows when he's welcome he knows when he's not accepted and when when the relationship is not working and he has a willingness to walk away so the the thing is money with low self-esteem is really really difficult it's a very lonely path it's a lot of gold diggers it's a lot of escorts it's a lot of partying even that the olden age now money with high self-esteem and um good values is you mean it's still difficult but you you you can create something

out of that what about successful women they struggle they they really struggle because essentially with successful women here's the thing men always say oh when women earn more they leave men but they don't realize why there's actually studies to show that when men are with women that earn more than them they produce more cortisol they're actually more angry and stressed around her and that obviously has a negative impact on their testosterone so they're actually less sexually attracted to her and so they're meaner to her they're mean and also they don't treat her the same way

if a man is dating a woman who know he knows is unemployed say if he's on £20,000 a year he'll still use whatever he has to treat her well like you know look after but if he's on £2,000 a year and she's on 50,000 he use nothing to invest in her now women don't need your money but they do need your investment because that's how men fall in love the more they invest in something the more they attach to it if they invest a lot of money in a car they really care about it lost

a lot of money into a Bitcoin they want to see it go up invest money into a Woman They want to see it work out so when they are with a woman that earns more they invest so little so walking away seems so easy for them and it seems so hard for her because she's been the one that's investing in them so it's very difficult it's not just the woman who's rich and now she leaves you the man no longer adds any value that is the main issue he doesn't use whatever tiny resources he has

on the woman like he normally would how can people better deal with jealousy then in relationships it's very difficult what with when it's activated because it comes from some childhood trauma and stuff so when it's activated that loneliness and that you know rejection is activated as it may have been as a child and it's like the world is over when somebody's jealous but I think in my experience of working and even my own experience of jealousy the only thing that helps remove jealousy is really building an identity outside of the relationship if jealous people tend

to place their entire self-worth and identity on the happiness of their partner and how attracted their partner is to them and what their partner is doing now the reason why that's so fragile is because your partner is he's fallible person who's going to have times where they look at somebody else they might be attracted whatever happens their entire identity is crushed so to remove that jealousy you really have to create an identity outside of the relationship which gives you the confidence that if this relationship is great I'm going to be in it if it doesn't

work for me it's okay I can go somewhere else but that fear of Letting Go and fear of that they're going to find somebody else it means that they're in a comp constant competition with their partner and they're almost terrified that their partner is going to meet meet somebody else but really when you build your own identity you realize if they do meet somebody else they're no longer the person you loved anyway so it's okay you almost have a Zen attitude towards it but it's very difficult do do you ever suffer with jousy uh not

massively um but that's that's been improved by having uh more things occur in life that have yeah like given me a more stable Foundation one of the challenges I suppose is that if you get jealous you have two very difficult choices one is tell your partner that can go badly that can be perceived in the wrong way or even if it's perceived in the right way it can change the way that you are perceived and the other one is to just swallow it yourself and deal with it on your own which then begins to create

a trend in a relationship of keeping things from your partner well it doesn't actually stay in your s you think you're swallowing it but you're then manifesting it in the form of checking when they're online checking who they're following checking checking and then bursting at small things not the real issue so when your partner turns up late or doesn't reply to your text then you overe exaggerate your response because that jealousy has been kept inside so it doesn't go anywhere when you keep it in it stays inside you your body keeps score of it as

they say so the reality is by expressing it and with the right person they'll try and help you soothe that jealousy with some reassurance with the wrong person they'll make you feel stupid and pathetic maybe you are being stupid and pathetic and they can't handle it but they'll make you feel that way and then the jealousy then exaggerates and increases so it's a good test of your compatibility if you do explain it to your partner one of the things I've been thinking about is is almost like historical jealousy and this is where the body count

conversation comes in what have you come to believe about how much body count matters and then how can people deal with historical jealousy better well the thing is it's now become a big topic of debate and men are like oh body count body count body count it's a big deal here's what I really say about body count The Testament of your body count is more your rejection rate than how many people you slept with now if you are let's take somebody like you for example who's got a big name on social media looks great access

to loads of women through the nightclub now if your body count is let's say if it's 10 but you've had hundreds of girls throwing themselves at you yours is actually still low whereas if another guy who has no access to women his but finally gets one or two girls to sleep with him on paper it might be less but his rejection rate is so low and now instead of looking at how much how many people people sleep with is they look at their rejection rate now if a girl slept with five men or 10 10

men but only five or 10 men have tried to approach her that means every man that tries gets access but if she's a really attractive woman she might have higher but her rejection rate is higher so really look at how many people you the your partner is rejecting rather than just their body count because on paper a really unattractive man who has nothing going for him his body Count's going to be low doesn't mean he's a decent man it's just that he didn't have the opportunity similarly women that are not that nice to be around

not that kind not that pretty not that attractive hers is going to be low doesn't mean is virtuous it's just that she didn't have access it's the ones that have access but choose to be um selective that's what you should be looking at is their selectivity problem is you can't ask them the number like how many rejections have you done in your life yes you can't that's the hard part but what you can tell is how easily excited this person is by the opposite gender it comes quite natur you can tell when people are super

excited when the opposite gender pay some attention and other people who are totally immune to it that person that has a Glee attached to attention is always going to maybe not have a higher body count because they you know might not get access but they've got more risk of um diversion because they they get too much ego boost from the opposite sex and not from other areas of their life so I think body count really has to depend on the the person's ability to say no to sex it's not just how many people they slept

with but how many people can they say no to I've never heard this Frame before I think it's very interesting yeah what do you think about that do you what do you think the body count the body count conversation is is so skewed because the world that we're living in now is not representative of where it would have been 10 years ago or 20 years ago but the the thing that I'm most interested in is historical jealousy you know yeah yeah yeah so hearing stories about what your partner used to get up to even if

it happened once right and it it's so strange you didn't even know that they existed you didn't know them they didn't know you they couldn't have said no because they were waiting for you to come maybe this was a onetime thing or whatever and it triggers especially in men it triggers such a visceral fear right of in inadequacy of um like jealousy but it's strange like how can you be jealous about a thing that happened before you even knew who your partner was so yeah talk me through your conception of historical jealousy what happens with

historical jealousy as human beings in general we prefer pain we can predict predictable pain is almost more welcome than well definitely more welcome than anything unexpected now where what we do with retroactive jealousy is we hold on to the past as a way of predicting how they're going to hurt us in the future the more you anxious you are the more you perceive threats in your environment so what's happened with people who are jealous of the past is essentially they believe they have a core belief that their partner is going to hurt them at some

stage anyway now if there's no present day evidence for that they will look for it in the past and use that as a way of creating hypothesis of how they might hurt you in the future and therefore be mentally prepared prepared for the sabotage now so essentially what they're doing is preparing themselves for the worst but they can't find evidence so they look for the past and it's usually because of a fear of Abandonment that they have within themselves and I know it's more common in men because their fear is more stimulated by the fear

of cauri that she might histo like evolutionary wise she might have a child with somebody else and pretend it's yours that fear um so it's ingrained in them but more time that fear is activated when there's been some childhood abandonment what about women what what are women worried about uh we're worri we worry not as much about retro we only really worry about previous exes if there is some Financial or emotional investment still going on usually when there's kids so what happens is women tend to get jealous of the ex-wife where they've got kids and

stuff like that we get jealous of exes that are still a priority in their resources so we're only threatened by women that have access to the resources whether that's energy time or money but if you're he's not giving them that we are more worried about future threats that's interesting I imagine that must make a lot of the moving on starting a new relationship as a guy that has got some history you know earlier on you mentioned if you're going to go for somebody that's a little bit older it maybe even in some regards a green

flag that they've been through some relationships and got some baggage you know from that but you also have the jealousy inclusion of the previous partner and potentially the previous kid resources attention so on and so forth so that must be a difficult situation to naate a lot women suffer from that they're really really so jealous of the ex and the children and so on and so forth and it is very difficult I can imagine it would be horrible but one thing that again if your husband has a good co-parenting relationship and is a good father

it's a foresight into how good of a partner he will be to you and your children he prioritizes his children is really really important now a lot of women want a man to Prior prioritize them over their children but what kind of man is that a man that prioritizes a woman over his children what kind of man is that it's not a man you're going to be attracted to in the future especially when you have children with him because that means the next woman in his life can take that priority you need a man that

prioritizes his children and it's try and see it as something you're admire in him rather than jealous of him because it's a trait that's going to come in very handy when you have children with him God willing but that guy that is just all over the place and doesn't prioritize his kids it's only handy in the short term M there was a post on Instagram that I saw literally on the car on the way here when you find out that she's unvaxxed not a feminist loves the Lord and despised to be a wife mother and

Homemaker and it's Joe Rogan in the video going oh like it's a a comedy thing and the caption was do such unicorns still exist in the comments people were dating so girls were replying and saying you know you should come to church on a Sunday we still exist out there like blah blah blah blah blah blah but what I'm fascinated by is what is going on where unvax not a feminist loves the law despised to be a wife mother and Homemaker is like counterculture finding a bar of gold hidden in the sand like treasure uh

it is because we're so distracted by the women that aren't the reality is that we're so um bombarded with images of the women who are the opposite who are the feminists who are out there who are not really of the Lord and don't aspire to that we see they're the loudest so we see them on social media they might be the ones that sexualize themselves a lot more they might be the ones that put themselves out there so what men are gravitating towards visually is going to be that filter of that kind of woman the

opposite and the ones that are that they're ignoring visually tend to have those qualities so here's the thing in life everything comes at a compromise now if you want somebody that will stimulate you the most sexually she's not going to be a virgin she's not going to be on church on Wednesdays she's just not going to be that girl she might be somebody who's a little bit more uh conventional um if you want somebody who is going to be those you might have to compromise now what's happening is because we've become so shallow and we

value so many junk values such as so many superficial things like looks when she's not beautiful you don't even pay attention to her so if she's not the most stunning girl it doesn't matter if she's what qualities have she becomes invisible a bit like with men if they're not tall a lot of women will ignore their existence even if they've got all the other great traits similarly if she's not absolutely sexy is what men are now attracted to they're looking for sexy more than ever before because it's normalized it's Instagram it's pornography um if she's

not sexy they don't even notice that woman so that's why they think women like this are unicorns but they are there you just don't notice them because they don't have their boobs on your for you page why do you think infidelity occurs most commonly in your experience um I I would honestly say if you ever get cheated on I always I know people hate me for this but it's usually your fault and the reason I say that particularly with men uh a cheating woman shows you every red flag from day one if you choose to

ignore red flags you'll pay the price in life you pay prices there's price taags now everybody shows you that their cheaters show you they're going to be a cheat and how they show it is very simple their values they'll maybe they'll show you that they've done it in the past maybe they show you that they are not so traditional maybe they show you that they are don't believe in monogamy maybe they're addicted to pornography cheaters show you their their past they show you everything now if you don't want to get cheated on you either choose

that cheater but know what know what the score is and then you don't get hurt you know what's going to happen but ignoring red flags is always going to get land you in that position now whenever I have clients that I've been cheated on a lot for five six years A man's got another mistress or three years she's been still been talking to her ex I was like there's no way she can get to three years without your you consenting and they're like what do you mean by that I was like they would have been

late replies there would have been days their phones are off there would have been not telling you where they're going they tell you everything their social media would have suggested something you would have been questioning them sometimes and they would have got defensive rather than reassuring you they would have been signs you chose to ignore them the price you pay for that unfortunately is infidelity so you either accept an Unfaithful and know what they're doing and then just decide okay I can accept it but I'd rather be with you than not without you but you

but denying the red flags is always it's going to catch up on you the infidelity is going to occur so that's why people get cheated on why people choose to do it is because they can get the comfort of a relationship with the joy and pleasure of a an alternative connection so they get two in one so they might get the comfort of somebody who pays her bills but the sex life of a young personal trainer that she wants and he might get the comfort of a good wife but then the sexual experience of a

escort when he goes and does that so they we become so greedy we don't realize that some things have to involve a s a sacrifice a healthy marriage has to involve sacrificing the Alternatives we don't see the need to sacrifice Alternatives because now we are so gluttonous even if we eat a lot we can still do that and get surgery even if we spend a lot we can still get credit cards we no longer see the sacrifice of Alternatives is required in order for positive outcomes yeah there's a a cool quote that says uh there

are no there are no options only tradeoffs right that for every that you want there is something else that you need to give up and I think that's a good way to look at relationships yeah if you want a good healthy marriage unfortunately you might have to sacrifice the most exciting sexual experience every day of your life because that's what 20 years of marriage doesn't look like you know it's realistic and if you want like a single life then you have to accept that you're emotional like you might suffer from anxiety and depression in the

long run so you've got to realize whatever decision you make it comes with a lot of pain and suffering pick your pain being married the pain might involve being bored it might not being sexually stimulated but being single the pain might involve a lot of loneliness depression and sadness just pick which pain you can handle and confine yourself to that decision and ward off all the Alternatives what do you think about getting back together after infidelity um get back together absolutely you I don't ESP if there's children I don't say no way no way no

way if there's no children I always tell people to reconsider um but one thing I would say it's different from men and women when a man forgives a female she can't respect you the same way you got to remember we like Alpha men Alpha men don't accept promiscuity so what happens when you accept a woman back a part of her will always feel like you're weak and you don't have the willingness to walk away because there's nothing that can push a man to walk away more than infidelity and if that didn't do it nothing will

so now she's Lawless for a man again I don't re massively recommended unless there's children but I would focus more on what was the meaning behind the affair what were they seeking and if it's something that you can do in your marriage by all means do it but if it's something that's more traumatic and it's more to do with an emptiness and a trauma in their childhood and you can't feel that void then you still can get back with them but expect the behavior to continue when I when people get back together after fair I

just say but ask yourself if he stayed exactly the same and still cheated 5 years down the line could you be okay with it and if you decide you know what I can as long as you're good to me and good to the kids I can do it by all means do it but don't go back together expecting it to be completely different it's not it's not realistic interesting to think that one of the considerations that you're focusing on to do with infidelity is not whether the person can accept that themselves it's whether the other

person can accept being accepted especially for women yes so essentially can you accept worst case scenario if worst case scenario happens again can you accept it if the answer is no then you're just delaying the divorce just do it now if the answer is yeah because the alternative I just don't want to do it then go ahead but always ask yourself can I accept worst case scenario then if that happens at least you're prepared for it if it doesn't happen at least your marriage stands a shot it's a brutal realization I guess for guys that

maybe their partner may have had infidelity and then they can try and do the work to be able to accept them again but that is creating a rhythm A vibe that may make it difficult for the partner that cheated on them to accept them back again yeah something dies in us when you accept the unacceptable because your masculinity is depleted and the other thing is the man loses his masculinity he starts to hate himself for not being able to walk away instead of having a pride of attached to like okay I've kept my family together

they know they shouldn't do it there something speaks to them so they end up hating themselves and because they can't always express that that they can get quite hostile and violent towards a woman and can get quite verbally abusive towards her and I'm not saying she's like an angel but the verbal Abus it's all you're doing is like I said you're just essentially punishing her for your inability to walk away she's going to beg and say please forgive me please forgive me but the reality is um we don't want the man That Forgives us we

really don't we want the man that says you had your chance it's been a pleasure I wish you the best because that's a man we respect why do married women cheat um a lot of married women a couple of reasons they didn't marry the person they truly wanted to marry they the a biological clock hit them and they married who was available at the time and they might have had an ex that they idolized they might have had something else that they didn't marry correctly they didn't choose the person that they wanted to marry they

chose the person who wanted to marry them and so they settled to begin with so they started wrong and that can happen on the alternative side it could be is when she hasn't felt desired for a really long time and she puts the feeling of needing to feel desired and sexy and attractive as a number one like uh emotion so she'll put that over and above her family and she craves that so if she's naturally born like quite attention seeking or if she married who who wanted to marry her rather than who she truly wanted

to marry unfortunately she's more prone to cheating yeah and and you and also if she grew up with a bit of Chaos I find that women that come from single parent homes are far more likely to cheat and the reason I I've noticed that and the the only hypothesis I can think of is that usually when somebody isn't fulfilling our needs we can go back to a safe haven of two we we're designed to have two parents that love us we got Mom and Dad two people love us that's how it should be now when

those two people one of them is absent you always feel like there's a void so when you're in a relationship and all of it is on him if he stops giving you that love you almost seek it as a backup because you don't want that emptiness that you may have experienced as a child so they almost have a backup before they can leave the guy they can't just leave and be by themselves cuz that really feels lonely they'd rather leave when they've got somebody else it's like having that extra parent in your life you you

like when you have Mom that an nois you you've always got dad you've got a backup but when you didn't grow up with that that being by yourself is really horrible and Lonesome so they always if one person lets them down they always try and keep a back up in case that person removes their love from them it's a safety hatch safety hatch yeah what about men why do men cheat um men usually cheat when they're chasing an ego boost they're not usually in love with the person that they're cheating with but they are in

love with the feeling that person gives them and sometimes the person makes them feel seen sometimes the person makes them feel like theyve fed sometimes feel person makes them feel attractive whatever it is heard um they're chasing a particular feeling that they are deprived of either from their marriage or from their childhood and as a result they seek it it's not sexual people think it's just oh they men love sex men love sex there's some men out there if they really love sex they would just have sex with their wife they haven't had sex with

their wives in a long time but they crave novelty or they crave somebody else making them feel a certain way so I don't think it's all sexual I think it's far more psychological and emotional than they think it is and they label it as sex but really it's the new person is get making them feel seen and maybe they felt unseen for a really long time at home and I suppose that a lot of single people or escorts are purposefully portraying a version of themselves that makes that person feel yeah the escorts know exactly what

they're doing same with sugar babies they know that with this man who's been married for so long they target married men because they have a in my experience of what watching them what they do is they have a leverage because every time he doesn't pay her he can say I'm going to tell your wife so they really do Target married men because they've got that leverage but also the the low self-esteem in married men is so easy to manipulate them giving them a phone call to tell them that they look great tell them that they

smell great telling that there's coffee ready they haven't heard these phrases in a really long time and that works perfectly with married men but it doesn't work so much with a man who's been on the single scene for so long and has four or five different girls coming over every month or whatever it is so because everybody's foring over him in the same way yeah so you don't stand out to that guy how much do you think he can change your partner you know we've spoken a lot today about how things that have maybe happened

in their past the way that they see relationships the frame that they place around this maybe it's things from childhood maybe it's the way that their past relationship or their past partner treated or mistreated them mhm what have you come to believe about how much you can shift and change who your partner is I think you can provide them with some level of safety and that level of safety can make them a better version of themselves but what we really have to ask yourself is why are you selecting people you have to change the reality

is you have to se select people and accept them rather than expect them to change and if you can be with somebody that you expect if they stayed exactly the same forever would work by all means go ahead but if you if you feel like you have to change them you have to then change your expectations instead of changing them just manage your expectations expect them to behave this way and if they change brilliant if they don't change no worries but expecting to change somebody is setting yourself up for failure because you're by default entering

a relationship that you know requires work rather than just creating consistency I looked at this thing earlier on talking about I guess the challenges that guys have of of finding female connection especially the incel sort of black pill part of the world dream gf. a so I read this I read this article earlier on it's fascinating apparently ads for AI girlfriends have been all over Tik Tok Instagram and Facebook lately replica an AI chatbot originally offering mental health help and emotional support now runs ads for spicy selfies and hot roleplay Eva AI invites users to

create their dream companion while dream girlfriend promises a girl that exceeds your wildest desires the app intimate even offers hyperrealistic voice calls with your virtual partner this may seem Niche and weird but it's a fast growing Market all kinds of startups are releasing romantic chat Bots available of having explicit conversations and sending sexual photos meanwhile replica alone has been downloaded more than 20 million times and just one Snapchat influencer Karen margerie makes $100,000 a week by charging users $1 a minute to chat with the AI version of herself but it isn't just unrealistic beauty standards

that worry me what's more Sinister is the unrealistic emotional standards set by these apps Eva AI for example not only lets you choose the perfect face and body but customize the perfect personality offering options like hot funny bold shy modest considerate and smart strict rational create a girlfriend who is Judgment free who lets you hang out with your buddies without drama who laughs at all of your jokes control it all the way you want promises Eva AI design a girl who is always on your side says replica how can we compete with that this article

is written by a woman already women in relationships complain about about porn addicted Partners who aren't satisfied with actual intimacy now we're facing a future where guys could get addicted to emotional validation elsewhere sneaking away for some of that unparalleled devotion wor what about young boys who grow up with this whose first sexual experience is chatting with AI women who never say no never argue never have original thoughts or an identity of their own and then they try to date a real girl there's already all of these men on Reddit raving about how their AI

girlfriends never argue complain or get bored of them while real girls continually disappoint point if AI girlfriends really do become as pervasive as online porn what will this mean for girls and young women who feel that they need to compete with this I would imagine it's no different to the mindset of a rapist essentially what you're doing is dehumanizing the connection of sex it's you're removing the human component and replacing it with uh compliancy now the mindset behind that is very similar to a rapist essentially you don't care about the emotions of the person or

even if they have emotions or the trauma or anything like that you don't don't need human human connection you just need your fix now when we normalize stuff like this and even pornography has done this we've normalized men to the idea of dehumanizing women for the sake of sexual pleasure and so much so that we are now creating nonhumans to have sexual pleasure with um we are creating a society of rapists that's essentially what we're doing we're normalizing rape and legalizing it but the mindset of not having human Connection in order to get sexual gratification

is exactly the same so I think it's just the new version of porn I think when we first heard about pornography maybe all the years ago when it started people would have thought oh my God that's the craziest thing in the planet no way is that going to take off um but it's now at the tip of our hands on the phone every single day I think this unfortunately is the sad future for human relationships because there's so many people looking for instant gratification that they would rather go down the RO of dehumanizing than long-term

gratification of creating connection yeah I I wonder as well it was interesting what that lady said about how it's an almost an unrealistic expectation to compete with them on an emotional level some of those things of laughing at their jokes and being on their side and not arguing that doesn't seem like an unrealistic standard to me being online 24/7 and being able to design your sort of dream girl in terms of the way that she looks there is a little bit of me that thinks is that unrealistic well it yeah is it unrealistic to laugh

at his jokes or to to be intimate with him or to to give him compliments and praise I I think that is definitely there like you should expect that from your partner your partner should be the person the source of your compliments and praise but the reality is uh women are hormonal we have a monthly cycle we're not consistent emotionally and as a result there are times where we worship you and there's other times where we don't want to be around you unfortunately that's how nature designed us I'm not saying blaming it all on that

but that's a reality of human nature and that's a reality of women now uh I get it's nicer to have that consistency but it's again but nicer and easier isn't better for our mental health we're designed to struggle we're designed to be like hunting Gathering to get a girl that's what you're designed to go bra like go bravery hunt gather get a lion bring it back or whatever animal and then a woman will sleep with you now if we're now creating a society of men where all they have to do is download an app to

that woman you're removing masculinity and bravery and the ability to regulate another person's emotions and understand her kind of behaviors you're removing that from men so you're removing their ability to be their full potential and their ability to be masculine because that's not how we're designed it definitely creates a a kind of self-fulfilling cycle where guys who have had bad experiences with with women in one form or another rejection or they've got into relationships and they've ended up being on the receiving end of something that's been really bad will Retreat and it seems like they're

now going to be able to be serviced you know this is it would surprise me if only fans still exists as a a business within the space of five years because really you know yeah what how this would maybe very much be able to take up take over if it can become high enough quality so I understand the dynamic you know this is a safer version for you in terms of not being betrayed emotionally etc etc but it does create precisely the lack of Eligibility that you already fear in yourself right I I want to

be an eligible partner for a woman because I haven't got that I may turn to this as an alternative it would be very very surprising to me if a man said I outright from first principles want the AI girlfriend it's usually I would have maybe tried to get the one in the real world haven't got it therefore I Retreat into this so that Retreat creates the lack of Eligibility but on the other side of this and the reason that you know women as quite rightly this lady it's a really well-written article um this lady that

wrote the article makes a great point that this is going to create the death of eligible partners that women are already fearful of right so what do you think let's say that you do have it's going to happen it's happening right now there is going to be some men right a non- insignificant minority at the very least who do Retreat into this upgraded version of Pawn yeah what do you think the female response will be to this because that's going to further skew the market of eligible male Partners what men are hoping for is that

then they'll step up and they'll say I'm going to be that girl that laughs and does that but the reality is what men women mainly will do is step down and think forget men because I can't be bothered to do this because you know the addiction to pornography has made a lot of women think oh God I don't want to sleep with men anymore they they just want porn they they do this wild stuff and blah blah so it it's going to have a counterproductive impact on women you're thinking that they're going to step up

but the reality is when we feel like the mountain is too high we don't bother climbing it so what women will actually do is Retreat into there's no point being with a man that I might as well just stay single all my friends are staying single I might as well be bisexual might be lesbian whatever it is they're not going to step up if that's what you're thinking this is what they're going to do they're going to think step up for who guys that like artificial intelligence that's not motivating me to want to step up

that's making me think men are disgusting and so they're less likely to become the woman you want them to be so we're creating a society of Insel men but jaded women yeah this sort of adversarial nature between the Sexes is not good people are retreating into a more comfortable but less fulfilling less risky uh less content version of life but it's this move away from anything that has to do with risk is kind of the Trend that I'm seeing you know maybe this is Downstream from hyper convenience maybe this is Downstream from a quasi surveillance

state where all of your information is tracked and held on the internet maybe this is to do with snowplow uh parenting and helicopter parenting maybe this you know pick whatever it is that's caused this to occur and it's likely to be a ton of different things congealing together but I don't think that it makes for ultimately a satisfying gratifying life M even if you have a life which is devoid of failure and pain and challenge that doesn't mean that it's one that's full of pleasure and happiness and contentment yeah exactly and comfort is actually the

killer of Joy what they find with people who have depression it's not that they are um got the worse circumstances sometimes they're just too comfortable if you take children in Africa that have to go Walker to get water they have no time to be depressed because their life is so uncomfortable that they have a purpose and they get through it and then they get the the dopamine of getting what they need um too much comfort kills Joy because if I can wake up late every single day I forget the joy of a lion if I

can eat whatever I want all the junk food in the world I forget what cheat meal tastes like so Comfort is not actually going to create any long-term happiness happiness comes from discomfort then problem solving that discomfort and then getting the dopamine reward unfor so it's a bit of a longer process sya KH ladies and gentlemen where should people go they want to keep up to date with what you're doing at Saia psychology and just go on Tik Tok I'm everywhere there unfortunately I apologize but I seem to be everywhere on Tik Tok at Saia

psychology what else are you doing what can people expect from you next I um I still have my patreon where I release exclusive videos that are just for those people that are looking to learn and improve I also offer onetoone conversations and onetoone coaching I also reply to people on my patrons that have quick questions so I am very accessible and available at the moment so I do apologize for being so saturated because I feel like I'm getting a bit sick of my own face but I am available if you should need me for any

Services sorry I appreciate you thank you thank you so much thank you for having me if you enjoyed that episode then press here for a selection of the best clips from the podcast over the last few weeks and don't forget to [Music] subscribe