"I Can Spot a Liar in 4 Seconds" – The Dating Checklist That Will Unmask the Psychopath in Your Life

Everything looked great on the surface, but something felt off. Something didn't feel right. And they don't even know that they're dealing with a psychopath. I know every tactic in the book, every single mind control hypnosis trick, and that's one of the big red flags that I've seen in like 99% of cases. So, anytime we're with any narcissist, you need to understand. Sir, Chase, as the number one human behavior expert, you actually teach women how to spot a narcissist and screen for psychopaths on the first date. So, what are the sneaky signs that we just keep

missing? The ones I think that people miss the most is the stuff that's most obvious because I think the psychopath, what they they do is they pull you in by becoming what you need. So the moment that they transform into what you need to see or what you need to hear, you develop a cognitive blind spot for all of these warning signs. And that's the biggest thing that happens that I'm talking to this person. We're it feels like we're having this great connection. When my brain says I like this person, then it leads to I

trust this person. So our brain, if we're not careful, starts to ignore some of those things. So one of the most powerful questions that anybody especially women could ever ask is what is the biggest thing you learned about yourself during that time. So working at a stressful job, a past relationship, going through anything stressful, some kind of conflict in somebody's life, you ask that one question like what's the biggest lesson that you learned about yourself during that? And when you have narcissists, and all psychopaths are narcissists, but not all narcissists are psychopaths, but you'll get

a response from that person where it's typically blaming. Nothing was wrong with them. They didn't really need to learn anything about themsel. They didn't need to develop anything. They didn't need to grow. So, you'll hear a lot of answers like that. So, you're going to hear from the on the red flag side. You're going to hear, "I learned not to trust people so quickly. I learned not to get involved with this type of person. I learned that people can't be trusted. I learned that you get hurt no matter what. And on the other side, you

you'll hear people like on the healthier side, you'll hear people say, "Well, I definitely learned that I need to be more open. I I kind of concealed everything and I I was too controlling." And you'll hear admissions that are honest and genuine and forthcoming. So, that one question is super powerful. And the second thing to look out for, can I ask you one follow-up question before I go into the second thing? Because this is super important. What's the difference between someone answering like that who's a narcissist or a psychopath compared to someone that's just wildly

insecure and they can't take uh personal ownership? That's a beautiful follow-up question. So, when you have somebody that has like a a lot of self-consciousness and insecurities and things like that, they're going to start to answer that question in a way that looks reserved. You're going to see body language movements that are like incomplete. Like they'll reach for a drink and it'll have little tiny pauses in it. So this is called like an unfinished movements. Like you'll see a lot of that. You'll see hesitation and reservation in their behavior. So they'll stop a little too

long to think or they'll worry about how they're being perceived with the answer. So the person who's a little bit insecure about what they're saying, you'll see their head go down, the shoulders come up a little bit. We call this turtling in body language. So, anytime somebody's experiencing fear, the number one thing that your body does is protect arteries. So, like you'll see that this bone right here, the humorris, will come closer in to protect this brachial artery. The shoulders will come up a little bit more. The hands will kind of come around this stomach

that doesn't have any bones in front of it. I think if you just watch the person, you don't have to study body language at all. Do they does their body start to become more closed as you answer as you ask that question? And that's the way that you would spot somebody with some insecurities. Amazing. Thank you. That's so specific. Okay. So, sorry to interrupt you. The second part, so the second thing to look out for is, and this is especially true with with narcissists, they will very rarely have local friends. Their friends are out of

town. They're in another state. They're in another city. They live in another country. and all of their friends are weirdly out of town or they live somewhere else. That's one of the big red flags that I've seen in like 99% of cases. And I've interviewed a lot of people about this stuff. And is that just because they can't maintain close friendships? Is that the indicator? They have a great ability to maintain occasional friendships, but they don't have the ability to spend lots and lots of time with a person for an extended period without something happening

like the relationship starting to crumble like we had a falling out or that guy's a dick or they're going to say something like that for the any reason they don't have any local friends. But if they're faking it, they're going to run out of steam. they're going to run out of gas at the two threeh hour mark and you're going to start seeing little cracks in that that facade that that person's trying to present. So what do the cracks look like? The cracks look like I'm seeing a steady behavior. I'm seeing good posture. I'm seeing

good eye contact. Their their movements are fluid. And then all of a sudden I'm starting to see a lack of facial expressions. I'm seeing them instead of breathing into their stomach, they're breathing into their chest. seeing stress increase because it their actions are not demonstrative, they are performative. And that's the biggest thing that I I think people should learn to spot the difference between am I seeing a performance versus a a demonstration of this person's natural thoughts and their feelings and what they're thinking. And I'll say maybe this is a random number three. If I

have a conversation with somebody, we're at a restaurant, we're at a a bar, and I've met someone new, and I just feel fantastic, like I'm almost like I'm meeting me. I'm meeting the exact thing I'm looking for. And after the conversation, you don't feel good anymore. That's the biggest sign is how you feel inside after the conversation stops. And if I have a genuine conversation with a genuine person who's not manipulating me, I'm going to keep feeling good after that conversation because that's rooted in serotonin and oxytocin, all these connection chemicals. If I if I

instantly feel this crash after a conversation, that that conversation was rooted in dopamine. So, that person was able to find all of these little triggers. And it's not there's there's no textbook out there that says psychopathy 101. Here's how to manipulate people. they grew up doing this. So once we get to the point we're understanding that people say like this is how to permanently disarm a narcissist, you're not going to do that. That's not going to happen. These are lifelong patterns of behavior that take a lot to overcome. You're so freaking good at identifying the

small little things that people don't even realize they're giving off. And there's a video where you were on a Zoom call with a friend watching him talk to his girlfriend, I believe. And after the call, after like 4 seconds, you went, "She's lying." Yeah. So, if you're looking for deception, you need to focus more on open-ended questions than close-ended questions because you're not going to get a lot of body language out of somebody going, "Nope, that's tough." So what I told him to ask her was, "Tell me about last night." So that and again, that's

not even a question. And it makes it less of an interrogation because you're like, "Oh, tell me about last night. What what how happened?" Versus, "What did you do last night?" Right? And that's like an interrogation type of question. Tell me where you were last night. What did you do? Who did you hang out with? So I'm kind of just making a statement instead of a question. So the brain doesn't react like it's trying to defend itself. So the moment that that happened, we're starting to see nonverbal responses. And so I was just kind of

like off camera looking at his phone. And I knew her baseline because I've spoken to her maybe for two minutes before in the past. Um so number one, the first thing is we tend to look a certain direction to access information, but everyone's different. And anybody listening right now, you could test this on all of your friends and I'll test it on you right now so we can see it on the podcast. All right, let's do it. What is the u seventh word of your favorite song? The seventh word. All right, so down left is

called internal dialogue and that's 99% of people. So if I'm running through words in my own head, I'm going down and left. So now we kind of have a baseline of a person. So the number one thing that we need to look for when it comes to human behavior is can I detect a change. It doesn't matter if a person it says you see all these books like somebody doesn't look you in the eye, they're scratching their face, they cross their arms. If they do that all day long, those behaviors are meaningless because that's their

baseline. That's their normal behavior. So what we're looking for is a change. So the first change was this eye movement deviation. So she looked down left for a prolonged period which is like let me think about what to say. Right when she started talking about everything her blink rate which is how often we blink shot through the roof. So let's break this down really quick. When we talk about blink rate this is how often a person is blinking. And we typically say blinks per minute. And the more often we're blinking, the more stressed out a

person is. And the less often we're blinking, the more focused a person is. So if I'm sitting here and I'm about to give you horrible information, like you're sitting there and your doctor comes in the room, he's like, "All right, why don't you have a seat here?" You're you're going to almost stop blinking. So that's focus. So during high focus, it's like three or four blinks a minute during extreme focus. And during stress, like when I'm taking uh like the math portion of my SATs, my blink rate is like 75 per minute. Wow. And the

cool thing about blink rate is I can instantly see it in someone because we look into each other's eyes all the time when we talk to other people. And it's an unconscious behavior. So, one thing that we saw right away in the video is blink rate. Her blink rate was about a 15 or 20, which is the average in conversation. And it shot up to about an 80. Wow. When she was explaining what she did last night, and that's a solid indicator of stress, not deception. There is no behavior of deception. It doesn't exist. So,

we're looking for changes to normal behavior and stress. And then am I seeing a cluster, not just one thing? So if people say, "Oh, he did this one thing. He's lying." You need to look for multiple things. Like he lost fluency. He hesitated more than often. His eyes went in a different direction. His blink rate went up. He reached across and covered his abdomen. His turtles went up or his shoulders went up and did this like turtling behavior. And we're looking that's a cluster, right? So when I see a cluster of behavior, I know that

I'm not saying that someone's lying. I'm saying the likelihood is drastically increasing because I'm seeing this cluster. So the cool thing is like if you're studying blink rate, you don't need to sit there and count per minute blinks of a person. You never want the time that you use a technique to be at the moment when it's most needed. So practice it at Starbucks, practice it at the grocery store, practice it in your Zoom meetings. So what you do is you start a conversation. Does the blink rate look pretty average, fast, or pretty slow? That's

it. So, what is the baseline here? And your goal is to look for change. So, am I seeing blink rate slow down, say the same, or speed up? So, it's it's such a great indicator because it's built into our mamalian part of our brain and our brain stem. We're not aware of it, and we're looking at people's eyes already. So, it's such a a beautiful indicator of stress and focus. Here's where it gets into narcissism. And let me know if I'm droning on too long. I'm loving this. Okay. I feel like my eyes haven't blinked.

Oh, good. I'm that focused. I think your blink rate was an eight. Oh, really? Before I said that. Yeah. All right, guys. We'll be right back with Chase Hughes. Just for one moment, I want to ask you if this episode or any other Women of Impact episode has ever brought value to you, please smash that subscribe button down there because you have no idea how much that becomes the calling card to women out there that you can come to a place, build your confidence, feel safe, feel like someone's got your back. And be part of

this community no matter what you're struggling with. So, smash that subscribe button down there. Thanks for listening, guys. Now, back to the episode. So, if I'm doing a good job, I'm going to have this low blink rate. And the way that it gets into narcissism is, especially into psychopathy, you start talking about some of your vulnerabilities, and their blink rate drops to zero. So, like the moment, let's say you and I, we don't know each other, we're both single, we're on a date somewhere, and you start talking about how you're really insecure or paranoid about

this thing. you start exposing this little flaw in yourself that normal people would go, "Oh, yeah. I I do that too sometimes." But the moment you see someone just laser focus on you, the moment you get into those vulnerabilities and insecurities, that's a big deal. Why wouldn't that mean that you're so focused because you're so into it, right? You can be. So, I might be really focused and into it and then kind of show empathy on my face. You'll see this little this little muscle right here. That's called the grief muscle. Uh so it makes

this little horseshoe shape and it's almost impossible to fake. So when you're talking about something that's vulnerable or sad or maybe some of your insecurities or something like that, you're going to see like some social mirroring on that. You'll see someone's forehead go up and they'll kind of mirror that with you that they don't have to verbally say anything. But if I'm talking about insecurities, I see a drop in blink rate and I don't see any facial resonance. Or if I'm talking about something really exciting, see my eyebrows go up. Yours went up instantly because

you have empathy. And a an interesting thing is that about 85% of people, even if they're total strangers, and you do this and you say, "Good morning. Oh, hey, good morning." They mirror it without even knowing that their forehead did that because you they're have true empathy. So, this is so so difficult to fake. And then you're seeing a lack of that when you're talking about something that's vulnerable or sad or anything like that and you're not seeing that kind of like that empathetic look on somebody's face like, "God, I'm so sorry that you're going

through that." Those are very big indicators and they're like I would say close to 100% of the time you're going to see a lack of affect. So that person is not um empathetically affected by you saying something revealing or vulnerable about yourself or like getting more open. And the other piece would be they become more focused. Like Lisa starts talking about her insecurities, vulnerabilities. That's my opportunity to learn how to control you. Makes complete sense. That's very valuable information to me. So, you're going to see blinks start to decrease. You're going to see a lack

of recognition on the face. So, I taught this group of women how to these like 10 things on how to spot narcissists on the first date. And one of the biggest ones and we did we covered the top five. And one of the top five was if this person is talking about something vulnerable about themselves, psychopaths do not enjoy doing this. um and it makes they feel like it makes them feel or look weak or inept or uh vulnerable in some way. You're going to see their body start closing up while they're talking about being

open or they're pretending to be open verbally. They're physically closing off. You'll see their hands pull in. You'll see their arms draw back toward their body a little bit. You'll see them lean back a little bit, cover the abdomen. And mostly in men, you'll see this genital protection. So you'll see hand going from here cuz you'll see in all these YouTube videos and all these body language articles, they show you these still images of someone crossing their arms. Every single time that I would say for everyone watching this, every time you see a still image,

don't ever let that sit in your head. Make it a movie. Make it a little gif, an animated thing, because you want to watch for change, right? So let's say the moment you ask me what I learned about myself in a stressful situation and I'm like yeah actually learned a whole lot about myself. So like my arms are coming in to protect and I'm going into this like genital protective behavior and verbally I'm becoming very open. I might even have some forehead display and all of that but everything else is kind of closing off. So,

but it's also what we're seeing in this like a manipulative style of behavior like you're seeing a fake openness and you're seeing a closed body or a closing verb body. So, the movement of becoming more closed and it's the contradiction of the two. It's the combination of things together that make up an identification versus one thing in and of itself. Yes. So, you want to look for those clusters as much as you can. Right. Got it. Okay. in talking about that woman that you were witnessing that after like four or five seconds you're like, "Yeah,

she's lying." Um, there were other things that you said that you had identified that were also signals that were more verbal. So, I believe it was something like, "She dropped the pronouns." Yeah. So, when a person is being deceptive, they will use typically use less pronouns. So, if I said, "Lisa, what did you do last night?" You'd probably walk me through, "Well, I had dinner. I watched a movie. If I checked some emails, washed my face, got I got into bed and I set my alarm clock and I went to sleep. Uh, if I ask

somebody who's being deceptive, like let's say I asked some guy in an interview room, "What did you do Wednesday night?" And he says, "Well, left the office, checked some emails, left the office around 5, went to the liquor store, went home, played video games, went to bed." No pronouns. There's no I, there's no me, none of that. Dr. Pennaker wrote a book called The Secret Life of Pronouns and how they become absent when somebody's being more deceptive. But the CIA has been teaching this for a while. So I you heard the pronouns drop and that

whole conversation she was fluent exactly like both of us are speaking right now that she wasn't struggling for words. Everything just kind of came out naturally. And then he said, "Tell me about last night. what all happened last night? And she was like, well, then the pronouns went away and she had what's called a hesitancy and a loss of verbal fluency where she struggled for words and because we don't really typically have to do that uh when it's truthful. Then we have chronology. So when you say like, oh, what was what happened last night? If

the biggest thing that we did was we went to a giant rave and it was like a the hugest thing that we we did last night and somebody says, "Oh, what happened last night?" You're gonna say, "We went to this rave." You're not going to say, "Well, I started getting ready at 5:15. Then I did this. Then I did this. Then we drove to this rave. But before we did the rave, I got some gum." You're so right. You're not going to go into chronology. You're going to go into the biggest thing that happened. Right?

And I'll I'll throw a caveat here. If you say take tell me what happened last night from beginning to end then you can't you can't knock them for that. So but if you say like what happened last night and someone just goes into this like chronological recollection it very very likely especially if you're hearing it with those other indicators is very likely to be deceptive. So just as an example you have said the alphabet 50,000 times maybe a 100,000 times in your life. We struggle to tell it backwards. Yes. Because we've rehearsed it forwards. So

if you hear one of these chronological stories going forward like that and they're not mentioning the big event first, like if you got in a car accident, god forbid, like yesterday, and I was like, "Lisa, what what's going on? What happened yesterday?" You're like, "Oh, I got in a car accident." You're not going to say, "I woke up at 6:30. I brushed my teeth." And then kind of lead up into it. So if I hear chronology, I might say something like, "So you said you went to bed at 9:00 and that's when you kind of

drove home. Take me from there and walk me backwards." What happened before that? So no matter how many times you rehearse a story in the correct order, when someone asks you to kind of walk backwards, you really, really struggle. But if I asked you from right now when we sat down on these couches, what happened? and walking backwards to this morning when you woke up. You could do that because it actually happened. Because it's real. Oh, but if we have this chronological thing that's a rehearsed story that's that's not true, we really struggle to go

backwards for That's so good. The way you explained about the ABC as well. I totally get it. Yeah. So, you're recalling on your memory and that's why you can actually say it backwards because it's a memory versus a um memorization. Yes. Very good. I'm gonna actually steal that. Oh, go for it. Looks good on a poster, though. It does. Great. My pleasure. Um, fascinating. Okay, coming up. There's so many women out there that get involved with manipulative psychopaths on the first date or in their dating life and they don't even know that they're dealing with

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So you have no fear of loss. Go check it out and if you love it, use it. And if you don't, don't use it. But I have a feeling you're going to love it. All right, now back to the episode. I would be remiss not to ask. My audience will probably kill me if I don't. So, you said you obviously teach women narcissists and you say you usually go over the first five. What are the first five? I think we've covered four. Okay. So far. Uh the final one is a bait question. So, this is

something that is is taken from interrogation and it's I'll give you the interrogation stuff first, okay? So, it'll be more fun. So in the interrogation, we use this thing called the punishment question. And the punishment question is, what do you think should happen to the person who who did this? And the the best example is when I did this with my children. Uh I was on active duty in the military and I come home from work one day. I'm in my like camouflage uh outfit and I walk in. Our living room carpet is like as

white as the carpet in here. And there's a little carton of chocolate milk just sitting on its side in this big pool of chocolate milk on the carpet. And I said, "Guys, who who knocked this milk over right here?" And I looked at my son. I was like, "William." And he, "Nope, Charlotte." Nope. I like all right, William. Kitchen Charlotte dining room. This is amazing. You're interrogating our kids. This is so good. Yeah. So I said, "Charlotte, did you spill that milk in the living room?" "No, what should happen to the person that spilled that

milk?" She She goes, "Spankans, grounded, no Xbox, can't go outside, no more electronics, can't play anymore." Just kind of goes on this huge list. Oh, she knows it's her brother just by that, right? Yeah. But I mean, even if these people don't know each other, like you'll have a severe reaction and a a soft one. So I went up to my son. I said, "William, uh, did you spill the milk in there?" "No." "What should happen? What do you think I should do to the person who spilled that milk in the living room?" And he

goes, "Um, no more chocolate milk in the living room." With a question mark at the end. Oh. Uh, so it's just such a great question and it's so powerful and I'll give you one more interrogation technique that can apply in a lot of these dating scenarios too. When the scenario that I gave to this uh women's group was to automatically bring up the 800 lb gorilla to bring it up and say, "You know what? There's so many women out there that you get involved with manipulative psychopaths on the first date or in their dating life

and they don't even know that they're dealing with a psychopath. And you bring it up directly and you watch exactly how that person starts to respond. Do they start breathing into their chest more? Does their blink rate start going up? And then then the second part of this question that we talked to this group was, "So in your opinion, I know there's these guys are out there. What do you think should happen to these people that are these manipulative guys that go on dates with these girls? That's where the question comes in. And you're going

to reveal so much so fast just by asking a question like that. So in the interrogation room, it's what should happen to the person that did this. If they are that person, you're pulling all of that power out and you're letting them know that you may not be the the right target or the right mark. But you're also watching, do they get nervous? Do they sit back? Do they get more defensive? Do they start blinking more often? Am I seeing all this stress come up in their body the moment that I'm that I put that

elephant right out there on the table? Oh, that's so good. That's so good. It's these little things I wouldn't even think about that end up they do reveal who they are. And that's why like thank you for sharing a lot of this. I think that these are moments where if we can really take these tools and implement them, it could potentially save either people's lives or just heartbreak. I mean, it can save so many women. So, thank you. And to throw one more thing onto that is I want you to take one of your friends

who was involved with a narcissist and start talking about how he manipulated her right in front of this person and watch how they react. watch his behavior. And and most real people are going to be like, "That's disgusting. That's horrifying." And then some people be like real quiet about it. You'll see their lips tighten up. And if you see lips squeezed together almost all every time that's withheld opinions every time. Think if you like ask me like, "Oh, Chase, how do you like your your new job?" And I'm like, "Oh, it's great. There's opinions being

withheld." Right? So be on the lookout for that. Especially when you bring up those elephants in the room. And I would say when the interaction is beginning, be okay with openly talking about narcissism. Your friend got involved in it. It's not you. Don't talk about yourself. Your friend got involved with it. It was so horrible. It's so hard to detect these people. And if they go, "Yeah, it's disgusting. I hate that behavior." Which a narcissist can do. Then you go, "What do you think should happen to that kind of person?" So it leads into that

question. Uh so that was amazing. The more sensitive information you need, the less questions you we need to be asking. So the first type of elicitation is a provocative statement. This is any statement that elicits a response. So when we use statements, the brain feels like it's voluntarily giving the information not in response to a question. So that the information is something that naturally comes up and it doesn't feel like they're engaged in anything where something is being revealed that's taboo, right? And this is again this is used to get secrets from other country intelligence

officers and stuff like that. It's very effective. And this will typically start with the word so or I bet. So somebody says they are an accountant. You say I bet that has got to be stressful. I didn't ask a question. He's going to talk about the stress, the stuff they deal with. And then right after he's done like, "Yeah, but blah blah blah." And then at the end of that, I'll say, "Wow, that is remarkable how you just put up with that day in and day out. There's got to be something rewarding about it, though.

I didn't ask a question." So now they're going to double down on the negativity. Their boss is an [ __ ] They're going to keep going into that. And then let's say we're continuing to use u elicitation and I want more data to just keep flowing out. Now I'll switch over to disbelief and they say it's this bad and this bad. My manager is a [ __ ] I got to do all this stuff. And they're like there is no possible way that your job is that bad. It's got to be like because I've talked

to people who work for the same company before and they seem like they really enjoy what they do. That's it. That's all I have to say. Then that's disbelief. It's not I'm calling somebody a liar, but I'm saying this there's no way it's that stressful. I've talked to some people that work at that company. It's like, oh my god, you have no idea. And you're going to hear more information come out. And so in a persuasion scenario, I'm using this technique to make your brain think that you're talking to a friend because if I get

them to complain or I get them to start giving up information, your brain now says, "Oh, he is a friend." Like he is connected to him. So, so we've gone from a provocative statement to a little bit of disbelief and then we have something called triggering the need to correct the record which comes after that. This is a technique that was initially invented I think in the 80s by a guy named John Nolan. So, like if you and I were standing at uh Arowan, which is like Whole Foods for anybody watching that's not a Californian,

and I'd say, "Lisa, I want you to go figure out there's somebody stalking uh baby carrots over there. You go figure out how much they make in under 60 seconds, and you're not allowed to use any questions." That's tough because the money is a sensitive topic, right? We can't say, "Hey, how much do you make for a living?" Mhm. But what if you went up to that person who's stalking these baby carrots and you asked for help and on the way you said, "I just I can't remember where it was, but I saw this article.

It said everybody who works at Arowan just got bumped up to $28 an hour. That is fantastic. I'm really glad that you guys are doing that." And they look at you like, "What? Everybody here makes 19 unless you're a manager, unless you're whatever. So you've got the information that you need. So that's called triggering a need to correct the record. And there's many other techniques you can do, but some of those you can get people to start revealing their true self. You can get uh sensitive information. So the rule of thumb is the more sensitive

the information that you need, the less questions you need to be asking. It needs to be statement driven. That's amazing. And so I I always think about these things as being able to work both ways. So it's if you want to get the truth out of somebody, but also again going back to if you're worried about being manipulated without your knowledge, these are things that you can start to be aware of. So you talk about something called fog and cava. I don't know how to pronounce it. However you like. Okay, cava. There you go. Um,

talk to me about those strategies and what we can learn from them as a female worried about being either around a psychopath or narcissist or dating one. So Cabba is all about end results. So, I'm either seeing control, acceptance, validation, or attention. That's the only four things you're going to really see one of these guys look for. So, is is their behavior about control, some kind of uh acceptance or something like that? I need to be uh accepted, validation, I need you to see how smart I am, how tough I am, how cool I am,

how strong I am, how powerful I am, whatever. Or attention. So, anytime you're with any narcissist, you need to understand those internal operating system of that Cava acronym of what am I seeing this person do? And it's crystal clear once you just understand that acronym. It's I can tell this person's not about controlling my time and all this stuff. They're not about making sure that they fit into this group or they they're some kind of weird conformist. They don't need validation all the time. It's just my attention. They're craving my attention. So, whatever their their

desired outcome is is also their greatest fear of loss. So, now we know what they're most afraid of losing is the attention, right? Or the control. So, how would that actually then look? Let's say in the dating world, what actions would happen? Would it be they're trying to take you away from that person that's close to you because they need the attention? Yes. So, there's two ways. There's carrot and stick. So the you start, let's call him Billy, your eighth grade buddy that you still talk to. So I just see all these Facebook notifications with

like Facebook Messenger on your phone. I'm like, who the hell is this guy? And I see you responding to him a lot. I don't say anything to you, but all of a sudden I order flowers to the house. I'm doing all this kind of crazy stuff because I think your attention's elsewhere. So I'm Carrot. I'm using carrot at this point to make sure I've got all of your attention. So I that's carrot and the stick is I'm I confront you and I say, "Hey, this is either me or him." You're like, "Bro, we like jumped

on trampolines together 30 years ago. Like it's not a big deal." But that's when you'll have that conversation like it's me or him. And there's a carrot and a stick for all of these. So, if I want to control you and I don't want to be like dictate what you're allowed to do, where you're allowed to go, I'm going to make it really good. I'm going to try to structure our time together to where we're going to do fun stuff. We're going to the to a church that I picked. We're going to fill in the

blank. So, I'm just going to structure your time, your focus, and your energy. So, I'm in kind of control of where you're going, but I'm doing it in a way that it looks to you like we're doing things together. And I've heard um it was Dr. Ramy actually that said just try and change plans on a narcissist. See how they respond. Yeah. Especially if it's the control. If it's attention, then that's that will be okay. And if it's validation and you try to change plans and say, "Hey, we're going to this other thing." That's going

to piss them off. If you say, "Hey, we're going to do this other thing because I know you're into this, this, and this, and everybody admires you because of those things, and I think this would be the perfect thing to do." So, you give the validation. So, you're learning how to control and how to like start taking psychological control over the narcissist. And the second thing is to learn what they're using is the fog acronym. And this is fear, obligation, or guilt. Those are the three things that people are going to use to either get

your control, your attention, your approval, your acceptance, or whatever else they're trying to get from you is through fog, fear, obligation, and guilt. So those are, I think, mostly easy for most people to get. But when you start seeing it, that's one of the times that you can start calling things out. But you do it in a way that's non-confrontational. So if I have somebody here that says like if you do this again this is going to happen. Um then you start calling it out and say wait I just just so I understand you are

wanting me to do this this and this and if I don't do this you're going to do this. So you take all of their manipulation tactics pretend like maybe I don't understand it all the way. Let's let me break this all down. So I'm taking like this little thing that you sent me in this secured envelope you don't want anybody to look at. I'm like, "What? Hold on a sec. Let's open this up. I'm going to lay all this [ __ ] out on the table so we can all look at it together. Let's all

take a look." And that's one of the best ways to do it. Could you ground it in like an example? So, let's say for instance, out of the car, someone's looking to control you. How would they use fog, fear, obligation, guilt? Yeah. As a real example, what would that look like? Pick pick one of the Cababa acronyms. Um, okay. So, control. So, somebody wants control and they they want to use which out of the phone? They want to use guilt. Yes. Okay. So, I'll use your name for this. So, I'll say, "Lisa, the last time

that you went out, uh, some weird stuff happened and it made me feel awful. You went out for your girls night. Uh, I didn't hear back from you. you didn't text me for like three hours in a row. And I don't know, maybe it was bad service or something, but I sat back here at the house worried if you were dead. I was sitting back here just worrying about you the whole entire time because you didn't check in with me. You didn't tell me where you were going. You didn't make sure you're in an area

where I could even see your GPS location. And it makes me wonder like, am I in a relationship with somebody who even cares about how I'm feeling? That's exactly what that would look like. Can I give you one more? That was so good. Yeah. All right. So, let's do Carver. Let's do validation. And then let's take fog. Um, let's do obligation cuz I don't know how that would actually pan out. Okay. And I'll use you again. Please do. I hate acting this way. You're so good though. I love this because here's what it does. It

really grounds it into what that would actually look like. So, thank you for doing this. Okay. So, all right. Lisa, I I know that we've had this conversation several times, but you've told me that you support me. You've told me that you're here for me. You've told me that I'm the one bringing in the most money, so my career is the most important. Am I correct that you said those things? Yes, you are. I mean, we both agreed on this, and I'm not trying to like manipulate you or anything, but I'm going to work every

single day. I've done this on online college throughout the nights. I've done all these things and not once in the past two freaking weeks have you said anything to me that I've gone above and beyond for everybody in this household. And I don't know, maybe you're manipulating me or something, but I haven't heard anything from you and you promised me that these are your priorities. Mhm. I see all Okay, good. That was so good because and I even love that you even dropped in like I'm not trying to manipulate Auna. just saying the truth like

that that is almost a form of a manipulation. Yeah. Then you'll hear that come like I don't think you're trying to manipulate me but and they'll say that to you. Okay. So I have a quote of yours that is very simple but just hit me like a ton of bricks. Mind control is pretty easy. It is. Talk to me about how easy mind control is and what are the steps of somebody influencing us. If I could sum up mind control in one phrase, one sentence, it would be the ability to weaponize cognitive dissonance. [Music] And

if you think about how you get involved with a narcissist in a relationship and why you stay, that's weaponizing cognitive dissonance. If I can weaponize cognitive dissonance, I can get you to do anything. So cognitive dissonance is about your identity and who you think you are as a person. And in a narcissist relationship, it's I'm a good wife. I'm a good woman. I'm a good supporter. I'm a good mom. I'm gonna stay here for the kids. So, it's about identity. So, if if the moment something comes up that might challenge that identity, like my friend

says, "Oh, Jennifer, you need to leave this relationship," I automatically delete that because it goes against what I believe first. And I would encourage anyone out there to just spend some time learning about cognitive dissonance because if if you're doing mind control on a person, whether you're creating some crazy assassin to go do some CIA stuff or you're manipulating somebody on a on a date, it's cognitive dissonance that you're creating. So, you're kind of getting someone to build an identity. And there's six avenues to influencing the human brain. And these are focus. Can I get

you to focus on me or the situation or whatever I want you to? Openness. How open can I get you to get so I can make you more vulnerable? And then we have connection. And connection is the degree to which a person feels like they are uh in sync with another person just naturally connected. And then we have suggestability. And this is the degree to which you will accept suggestions from someone like maybe we should do X and then you'll say yeah I will do that. It's like the ideal cult member is super high suggestible.

Then we have compliance and compliance is the degree to which you will accept and then act on those independently. So not us together you'll do something independently. So that's compliance and then expectancy and expectancy is the degree to which you can generally predict the future of what we're doing here what's going on is going to be positive. So if we take an extreme example extreme uh where total strangers were talked into committing murder in less than an hour and this is the famous Mgrim experiment. People thought they were volunteering for an experiment about learning. They

go into this room at Yale University. It's got this shocking machine in there. Uh, and they have there's another volunteer who's actually an actor and you watch him get strapped to this machine and he's about to get shocked and you're the person that's supposed to be shocking him. And he's right on the other side of this wall and and you read him these questions and he answers through a push button that says like ABC D. And every time he gets one wrong, you shock him and increase the voltage a little bit. Wrong. shock increase voltage.

So there's only one volunteer which is the you. The other guy's an actor. The guy in the lab code is an actor who's like the scientist running the experiment. He looks like a doctor. He's got a clipboard and a lab code and all this stuff. At about the midway point, you can hear him screaming. The actor is screaming. The guy that's getting the electric shock, right? He's not getting shocked, but you think we damn sure think he is. And he's he's saying, "I don't want to do this anymore. I have a heart condition. Let me

out of here. And they you turn around to this guy in the lab coat. You're like, "What what do you want me to do?" And the guy in the lab coat says, "The experiment requires that you continue. Please continue." So then you keep shocking. He's screaming, screaming. And around 300 volts, he stops making any sound. It's dead silent. And he's not answering the questions anymore. There's nothing coming from the other room. You turn around to the lab coat guy again like, "What do you want me to do, bro? Then he says the same thing. Any

non-answer must be treated as an incorrect answer. Please continue. Keep going. Keep going. It's then it finally gets to on the machine. It's labeled danger. Severe shock 450 volts. Shocking this person that you believe might be dead. And they even there's even clips of these people saying, "Oh, you might be dead in there." So, let's think about like when it comes to persuasion and influence. People think it's hard to sell a car. People think it's hard to go on a date and talk someone into dating you. I would argue that it's harder to talk someone

into murder. So when it comes to that six axis model, this is our hyper respponsiveness to authority. So like there's brand new things happening all the time which is generating a ton of focus. And is there a lot of connection in this experiment? There's not. Is there expectancy? There's none. They don't know what the hell is going to happen next or that it's positive. And there's no openness. The person's not sitting there shocking them talking about their life secrets and all these little insecurities and stuff that they have. So all we have is focus, suggestability,

and compliance. And you you get someone to become a murderer in less than an hour. So when we look at that six axis model, we're looking at a model where if you just capture three of those things, you can get someone to do almost anything. If you get six, you're unlimited. You have unlimited control over a human being. But to capture control over a human being, you need four other things that are even more powerful than that six axis. And that's the fate model. And fate is how we control a animal brain. And we have

a kind of an animal brain underneath our human one. So our our brain evolved, so we think in layers. And none of our mamalian brain can speak English. It's incapable of language completely. So if you think back to the Mgrim experiment where people were made to be murderers, there's no sales script. There's no hypnosis being used. So there's no language. And that's so many people focus on the language. And if you think back to like if you've ever watched somebody maybe got away with something that they shouldn't have gotten away with, our first question in

our head is what did you say? Oh, what' you say? And it's never what we say. It's what am I doing to control that mamalian brain? And if you think about just Caesar Milan, the dog whisperer guy, um he uses that fate model, f a t. That's focus, authority, tribe, and emotion. This is the four ways to control an animal. If you get them all together, you have full control over the animal. If you control the animal, you control the human. So focus and we know focus is generated through novelty. So especially and here hearing

this in terms of manipulators, if I'm seeing a lot of this weird novelty behavior like that's developing a tremendous amount of focus because anytime something is new, our brain says this is different. I didn't expect this. I don't have an app for this. Right? So I need to pay attention. The second part is authority. And when it comes to authority, you sincerely are looking at a mixture of five things. And this is confidence, discipline, leadership, gratitude, and enjoyment. Those five factors trigger the human brain to think this person is an authority figure. So, as they're

going through the study and the guy's in the white lab coat, it seemed like in that moment the manipulation is I'm the authority. I I know what's happening. You just need to follow my lead. Correct. So, our brains do not have a firewall. And they're they're riddled with loopholes. And this is the biggest loophole in the human brain is response to authority. And this guy in the lab coat didn't need all this confidence and all this other stuff. All they need is a little bit of composure and a lab coat, which is a loophole in

our brain says, "Oh, lab coat, doctor, medicine, that's an authority figure." So, it's a bypass. So, that's a perception of authority. If I can get you to perceive authority, you'll typically do what that person says to do. And it'll be incremental. I'm not going to say, "Go jump off a building." I'm going to say, "Hey, step off of this carpet over here. Just take one step off." So these are incremental small compliances and something you really need to watch out for. Am I getting incrementally asked to comply or do something in this relationship? It's kind

of a wedge. So there small things starting and kind of escalating over time. Then we can move into tribe. And when we get into tribe, we will do what the tribe does. This is almost there's maybe 10 people in the world who this doesn't apply to. Maybe you have a neurological condition or something like that, but any human will do what the tribe does. There's a study by this guy named Dr. Solomon Ash, and this was in the mid70s, I think. And he has a card where there's three lines on it. They're all of different

lengths. And there's a card over here that has one line that's the same length as one of these lines on this card. And the the task is simple. You look at all these three lines. Which line over here is equal to that line? Super easy. But there were 10 people at this table. Nine of them were actors. Only one of them was the volunteer. So as clear as day. The correct answer is A. As clear as can be. But when they go down the the line of all these people, it's C C. And it gets

to this last person, they go C. Cuz everybody else did it. And that was 100%. Wow. 100% of people would start going along with the crowd. Um especially when it's public and when you make our behaviors public. When you have to write them down on a piece of paper, they chose the right one. Yeah. I mean, look, when I think about going back to the tribe thing, um they say now loneliness is um worse than smoking 15 cigarettes a day. It's worse than obesity. It's worse than alcoholism. So I go, okay, if loneliness is that

bad for us, think about it for survival mechanism back in the tribe days is that well of course you would not want to be ostracized from your group because that could mean either loneliness, hence you know bad for your health, or actual death because the bear is going to eat you and you got no one to help. So being ostracized from a um biological standpoint makes complete sense. But then it goes to why do we not speak up? Yeah, it's the ultimate taboo to talk about because let's go back to those tribal days. If I'm

outcast from my my tribe, who do I tell? So, we're not allowed to talk about loneliness. And there's an epidemic of loneliness right now. And the number one thing that everybody should take from this is technology has outpaced our brain's ability to adapt. So, like if you think that like if you're scrolling Instagram, Tik Tok or whatever during the day, anybody that that believes their brain is immune to a $1 trillion computer is a [ __ ] I don't think I'm immune. And I know every tactic in the book, every single mind control, hypnosis trick,

everything you've ever you could ever find, I've I've got it. And I'm terrified of social media. I'm not immune to it. And it's an artificial placebo for tribe, but it doesn't give the brain fulfillment. It gives the brain this little weird placebo effect uh top layer without fulfilling any part of the Maslo's hierarchy of needs. And I'm a big believer in Maslo's pyramid. So if I have this like social love, belonging, connectedness level which is like we have like basic survival like food and water and sex and then we have belonging and all that other

stuff. If that's pulled out, I can never go above that. Whatever level of Maslo's pyramid you are at in your life, you are automatically programmed genetically to worry about the thing right below it. H. So if I'm at this confidence thing, my worry is to is about this social belonging and all this other stuff, that's where I'm going to fall down to if my confidence goes away. So this is like the self-actualization part of the pyramid. And if I if I lose this belonging and love, then I'm worried about like I'm at survival level, like

food and water. So if I lose that that sense of belonging, everything's gone. my confidence, my sense of self, my well-being, my self-actualization, everything goes away because that one piece of the pyramid was was pulled out. Speaking of that, then social connection and technology. I think of the dating apps. It's like we've got the best commercial of what we look like. So, it isn't necessarily the reality just like the highlights. Um, how would you even tell then if you're on a dating app and you're looking at people's profiles? What on earth would you look for

to see if they're authentic or if they're trying to hide something? When you're looking, how polished is the image? Uh, do they need to do 10 takes before they put a photo up? Do they need like am I looking at a polished presented thing here or am I looking at a person who is comfortable with social injury? And I would say it's hard. First of all, it's very hard on a dating app. You're not always going to get accurate information cuz I mean there's so much AI now. Uh AI could have written that description, the

pictures could be AI. It may not even be a human that exists. Who knows? But I would say the if I was on a dating app today, uh aside from all the photos, the the number one thing I would look for is is there a statement of even tiny hint of vulnerability inside of that? I'm healthy. I run a lot of blah blah blah, but somehow I'm addicted to Cheetos or something like that. something that's human. So, am I seeing vulnerability? That's the only thing that I would be looking for. Do I see in the

photos, in the description, real human being vulnerability? Is there a statement or a question that you can ask that person that shows your vulnerability to then test them to see if they'll use it against you? Because again, going back to like the struggles that women really have is they they put themselves out there. You go online dating, you meet this guy and you're trying to know if they're sincere. Are they just trying to get, you know, a one night stand? Are they just lying to, you know, get a night with me? So, I just figured,

would you like, how would you even test to see if they were sincere on an app? I have a perfect question. It's one question. Oh, are you authentic? Just literally asking someone if they're authentic. Yeah. Because the inauthentic people are going to be like, "Oh, yeah, absolutely." And the people who are genuinely authentic will kind of sit back and reflect on it for a sec. You're going to see them genuinely think like, well, I think so. I mean, I have this thing that I kind of hide from people. I'm worried about some aspects. I hide

some parts of myself. And you'll hear the answer. You're going to hear a lot less hesitation. Somebody who is inauthentic when you ask, "Are you an authentic person?" They're like, "Yeah, absolutely. I'm the most authentic person you're ever going to meet." But I think it's going to be wildly different responses between those two different types of the most inauthentic thing you can say. Correct. Yeah, that's amazing. And the final E on the fate is emotion. So like am I getting lovebombed? There's a ton of this uh dopamine right at the beginning so that I'm continually

coming back for this for this thing. I'm getting this love bombing and I'm getting resource bombing. But the most important final element of this is what am I being told to do quickly? What where am I being told I don't have enough time to really think about things? And if if somebody says, "Hey, we're doing this. We're doing this. Are you in or out? I only have one thing left. We've only got one seat left on the helicopter." Whatever that is. I need to know in the next 5 minutes. That should be very, very scary.

We're tribally uh wired in our DNA to respond to scarcity. Scarcity of water, scarcity of food, scarcity of social connection, whatever it is. Where am I being told that I don't have time to think about decisions? So, the best insulator, number one insulator to prevent that stuff from happening is to say, I'm going to unplug this video game for one day before I I plug it back in and think about it. Then all the dopamine's gone and all I'm doing is it which is hard to do is all I'm going to do is pause. So

I have all this stuff. I have the focus. I've got all of this authority. I've got this tribal involvement here. I've got emotional involvement with this dopamine and resource bombing and love bombing. All I'm going to do I'm not going to say stop because it may be something good. Maybe it's a new church and it's like a you know churches do all kinds of stuff now. They sing and dance and do all kinds of stuff. Might be something that's good for you. Maybe it's a new therapist or a new group that you're joining that is

not a cult at all. They and they have all of those elements. Focus, authority, trial, bush. Good things have those two. But if you push pause on those good things, you'll still feel good during the pause. If you push pause on the bad things, you're going to feel like [ __ ] because your dopamine's crashing. That's the difference. Wow. And that scarcity, I mean, everything you just broke down was amazing and fascinating. And then thinking about the scarcity part. I mean, it's the biggest sales tactic, right? Like special offer ends tonight at 8:00 PM. Get

it now. Only one hour left. And so that, oh my god, what if I miss out? What if I miss out? Then makes you make decisions without the clarity. So that's fascinating. And then you said something earlier about you being I can't remember the word you use, but basically you're the brainwash master. And so I want to ask you, how on earth did Jeffrey Epstein and P Diddy brainwash so many people for so long without being identified? If we can discover this and figure this out, I really hope there isn't another diddy in waiting. Okay,

so this is a a unique scenario where money and status was probably the most effective tool that they used. What is money? That's access to the bottom two levels of Maslo's pyramid. That's resources. You can I can get you food. I can get you a house. So, I get you survival and resources, right? So, that's money. And what's status? If I'm connected to somebody who's really high status, that's automatically boom, love, belonging, and connection. Does this make sense? Now, we're looking at Maslo's pyramid again. So, then they become persuasion experts because they fulfill Maslo's pyramid

or Maslo's hierarchy of needs. And there's a part two. So, let's say I've got you into my little cult here. My next step is, all right, I'm I've got to get Lisa to agree to participate in all this crazy [ __ ] that's going on here. So, I have to make sure that it's okay with you. So, this is where they would follow, and I'm I'm hypothesizing here, but this is where they would follow what I would call an interrogation formula. And to get you to confess, there's like four things I need to do. I

need to socialize, minimize, rationalize, and project. So, if it's a we're in an interrogation, let's say you uh let's say you stole $10,000. I'd say, "Lisa, you know, can we do something like um have an affair?" Yeah. Cuz that's something that I think a lot of my audience struggle with. Like, I'm not sure if my guy's cheating on me. Oh, yeah. So, let's go through socialize, minimize, rationalize, and project again. So like you know this I think a lot of people would understand and this would anybody looking from the outside this would make perfect sense

and it does make perfect sense because we haven't been intimate in a very long time and you're a man you need intimate intimacy. So that's socialize uh rationalize then we minimize and in in all reality it's just a couple it was just a night with some girl it wasn't a big deal. This is not a big deal. People go through really big problems in relationships. This is not a huge thing. Now project now. It's not project is when it's not your fault. So at the end of the day, this this makes sense and this is

not your fault. I brought this on you. I knew that you were a man. I knew you had needs and I knew you needed to fulfill those and I chose not to do it. So, John, all I'm really asking here is, is this something you've been doing for like 10 years or is this like a you made a mistake? So, that's called the alternative question. So, like let's say you took $10,000. I would say were you stealing this for human trafficking or and I'm I'm exaggerating. Sure, of course. Were you stealing this to fund human

trafficking or were you trying to pay your aunt's uh chemotherapy bills because I think you are a good person. So at the end that alternative question is all I want to know is like has this been happening for years or is this just like a a little mistake that you made? So if it was a mistake then we can get through this and we can get past it. You're not saying I'm not going to break up with you. You're not making promises. Nothing like that. You can say we can move past it. We can get

through it. Which is meaningless but it helps the person to be more vulnerable and saying okay yeah I haven't been doing this for years. I promise I haven't been doing this for years. just a one time one time mistake. So it's that socialize, minimize, rationalize, project, and then that alternative question. Is it this bad bad thing or did you just make a mistake? And that is the best way to get somebody to confess. Wow. So back to Epstein. So now I have to use those same techniques to make you think that it's okay. So and

this is a cult doing the same thing. So now you come in here. Thank you, by the way, for calling them cult. I think it's really important. I think they are cult. Yeah. And and not all cults are bad. Um I was in the US military which is very much Oh, you'd call the US military a cult. Yeah. Well, I mean when you join this organization, they shave your head. They control your entire life. They make you chant all these things all at the same time. You have to walk walking in the same steps in

this marching life. So it's it's very very cultlike. Um, so let's say you've just joined into this little Ebstein group. Socialize is number one. I have to I have to convince you that lots of people are doing this. Look at all these people that are doing this. These are powerful people. So I'm using authority that are doing this. These are rich people. Everybody is sane here. And this is okay. It's socially okay. And it makes sense. So now we're into rationalize. And it makes sense because X, Y, and Z. There's all these people doing it.

And we have natural instincts as human beings. We're hardwired for sex. Men are hardwired to like younger women. I'm making all I feel disgusting saying this, but and then we minimize. And in reality, they're old enough to consent. And these people are old enough to make their own decisions and it's not a big deal. We're just having fun for like 30 minutes and everybody's enjoying it. That's minimize and then project. And it's not your fault. It's programmed into human DNA. Everybody has these feelings. It's just a few people that are brave enough to act on

them. So I'm socializing it. I'm rationalizing it, minimizing it and projecting. So you don't feel it blame. And in reality, the projection may be on to Epstein himself. Like, well, Epste invited me here. Epste gave me alcohol. Epste introduced me to this girl. Epste said, "Hey, go get a massage. Go into this other room." So that's that final part of projection may not be some verbal thing that happens. It may just be like I'm kind of an agent. I'm acting on behalf of I'm doing this because something happened. So that projection is that final step

that allows I'm going to do something that I would never normally do, which is like confessing to a crime or doing some crazy stuff with one of these idiots. So that that projection takes place at the as the final step. So like like I don't want to do this. This is not really who I am. And then somebody says it's not a big deal and it's not your fault at all. Some it's someone else's fault that you're about to do this. It gives you this opening freedom. Does that make any sense how Yeah, a thousand%.

And it's especially the Diddy thing. I didn't really know Epstein until this whole thing had happened. So, it wasn't really on my radar until then. But I grew up listening to Diddy. I grew up listening to all of his music and idolizing him. And um at 18 years old, if I came to America and I was invited to a PD party, I would have gone. If I was invited to the back room of a tea diddly party, I would have gone. And so thinking about how a lot of women are impressionable and how people use

that against us and how that becomes the big trap. So that's one of the things I'm always trying to grasp at because I really do fear there's a PD and waiting because we went from Harvey Weinstein to Epstein to Diddy. It feels like there's a lot of powerful, I hate to say it, but a lot of powerful men that are using money and power for nefarious reasons. And so I go, I can't impact or make a guy not do it. But I can hopefully try and teach and bring on people that can start to shine

a light on the traps that we get into. I mean, you hear some of these stories, it shapes the women for the rest of their lives. one of the women that was on like Making of the Ban. You see a video of her when she first meets Diddy. She looks so sweet and innocent. And then you see a video of her now. She is admits she's just [ __ ] up. Yeah. And that type of impact on so many different women, I just I I really want to put a stop to it. So grasping out

what are the things that they're looking for? How do we get trapped? And then how does it get hidden for so long? Like those are the things that I'm really trying to figure out so that hopefully each way we can try and stop these people from doing it. Yeah. The reason that it gets hidden for so long is that it goes back to what we've been talking about in every scenario. This kind of this always comes back. It's a fear of social injury. My tapes are going to be released. Someone's going to expose me. All

my secrets are going to be there. So like that's Maslo's pyramid. It's going to delete that level and everything above it disappears once that level goes away. And in reality, what people need to do, especially young girls, especially young girls. I have a daughter who's 17. And you need to think, am I being influenced by authority? Is a am I seeing authority or a good person? Because especially for the female brain, it's hardwired to respond to like male authority, like tribal leader status. And that bypasses a lot of your critical abilities of like, is this

good for me? Is this the right thing to do? Should I be doing this? Is it healthy? Authority trumps a lot of that. And so anytime you you start programming your kids, uh, and I would say this to moms and dads everywhere, this starts when they're four. It starts when they're three and they go to the doctor and your behavior around that doctor will dictate how they behave around authority. Well, you tell your kid like that doctor is your employee. You're in charge of the doctor. You tell the doctor what to do. You tell the

doctor the problems. The doctor works for you. I'm not telling my kid to be a dick. We're still respectful. We say, "Mr., Mrs., yes, ma'am. Yes, sir." But you're in charge of that doctor. So, we start teaching early on. recognize the difference between authority and perceived authority. Those two things, it's the biggest thing we can teach our kids. It's the biggest thing I could ever pass on to especially young girls that are watching your podcast. So recognize the authority. Where is my focus being trapped? So like, is someone saying don't go out anymore? Don't go

to that place anymore. You need to hang out with us for one straight week. So I need like when is someone trying to narrow down my level of focus and attention? It's being narrowed on something. Then there's an authority figure and what's the final element is the tribe and now it's everybody's doing this. This is socially acceptable. I'm seeing lots of people agree with this. I'm seeing lots of other people comply. So I'm it's just like the lines experiment where which line is here, which line is there and everybody's saying this. I'll say something that

defies reality just because other people did the same thing. That's fascinating. And then um one other thing I think um is a lot of us women have been taught to not listen to our gut intuition and we just see what the expert says. We don't necessarily tap in. We just go, "Well, they're the expert. They must know." And you actually have a um a list of if you focus on these five things, your gut intuition will be clearer and louder. Do you mind taking us through those five things? So managing and being completely in charge

of your environment is step number one. And this is everything about you. So like if you go out and you want to look like you've got your [ __ ] together, you need to have your [ __ ] together. It it makes so much difference in our psychology and how much control we have over ourselves and the world around us. If I want control of me, that starts with where I spend my time. Do I pick up after myself? Do I put the toothbrush back where it's supposed to go? Um, and then time. The number

one thing about time and I could go on for two hours about time management and all that but is our whole lives people tell us to spend time and we use the phrase spend time but no one teaches us the difference between spending time and investing it. So a lot of people don't ever learn the difference between spending and investing time. Then we have appearance. And appearance is how I move, how I walk, how I carry myself. And if I'm if I find myself moving faster than I should in social situations, I'm becoming more suggestible

because my fear levels are increasing. This could be social anxiety, could be anything. When we see the body speed up in in these processes, we see these rapid movements. We're seeing increase of fear, which makes you more suggestible, which means you'll be hyper respponsive to authority. and tribe because like if I'm really scared, what am I going to do? I'm going to do what everybody else is doing. So, I'm going to respond to the tribe. So, environment, time, appearance, and we're naturally wire, especially women will will kind of compare compare themselves to other women all

the time. We're hardwired to compare ourselves to other people. Since that wiring is built into your brain, the best way that you can compare yourself to other people is, am I calmer than the other person? Can I be the calmst person in the room? And if if that's a little too abstract for you, then take it down to speed of your body. Can I make my body the slowest moving person in the room to where all of my movements are slow, deliberate, careful, and I'm slower than the other person. I'm not competing on hierarchy or

status or bank accounts or anything else. Just who is calmer? Can I out calm everybody else? And especially for narcissists, this is really bad because if you're willing to move slower and be calmer and let's say I'm the woman and I'm getting all of this stuff like thrown at me, this kind of manipulation tactics and I'm moving really slowly. I'm just looking like this. And if I'm more calm than you are, I'm also more willing to sit here in silence and stare at you after you've just finished talking and just contemplate. And the mistake that

I hear most people say is like when they when they're telling you, "Oh, you need to stop and wait and pause and like look someone in the eye." Doing that as a tactic will not work as effectively is as if you're doing it and considering what someone said. So you're using the time instead of using a trick. Oh yeah. So just considering what they said takes a lot of the pressure off of you. a lot of the fear, any of that stuff is gone because I'm not I'm not using some tactic. I'm just stopping to

think about what somebody said. And if I hear something manipulative, I'm going to say, "Let me maybe I misheard that." So you said, and I'm going to go back and walk them through every single thing, but I'll take the blame. I'll say, "Yeah, may I may have mis I may have misheard you." That happens to me every once in a while. So let me let me just rephrase this and make sure I understood. So any manipulative phrase, take that blame and then rephrase it and make sure you're taking those things out and laying them out

on the table so there's no denying it and you make them agree like is this correct? Is this correct with all this [ __ ] I've just laid out here? Uh so that that would be the appearance. Uh and then it's social and this is having a good social network of 3D humans, 3D human beings. It's so important. And if you have a really tight social network, and you can go find one, go to a gym, go to a yoga class, go meet some people, get a 3D group of friends, because if you have a

fulfilled tribe level of Maslo, you won't be seeking it in someone at a bar. Oh, that's that social level. And then our financial stuff. If you look at the statistics of people that are joining cults all the way back to like the branch dividians, people who are joining have financial problems. They've got financial [ __ ] going on in their life. So figure out like whatever whatever you've got to do to get your financial stuff in order. You're not getting late payments on bills. You're not doing all of that. And if you can't do all

of that, like in a day, which most people can't, get started. Do one thing and that's going to take that ease off of your mind to where you're worried about resources on that that bottom level of Maslo's pyramid. Because if I'm worried about that, I can use that to manipulate the [ __ ] out of you. It makes you more vulnerable to influence because you're viewing yourself as faking it when you're trying to look successful. Or you're viewing yourself as not enough. I'm not good enough. So, it makes you more suggestible and more easily uh

manipulated. And I'm not saying your financial problems are out there for everybody to see. It just makes you worry more. And when you're worried about other things outside, then you're more easy to manipulate. Well, I've never heard of that's how you start to listen to your gut intuition. And it makes complete sense. Let me just repeat what I think you're make sure that I actually fully understand this. So you're saying so often we are unable to tap into our gut intuition because there's a lot of worries and things that we have that distract us and

pull our attention away to not go inwards but to always be outwards. But if we focus on all of these things one by one, it gives us the space to then be able to pause and it allows us to go inwards and go, "Huh, that felt weird. Why did it feel weird?" instead of rushing past it. Yes, perfectly said. That needs to be on a t-shirt. Ah, that's pretty long. Um, so if we do all of that and we start to trust our gut intuition and mix with all of the tactics that you've just given

us, thank you. Like when I show up every day, it is in the effort to actually help people like no BS actually give them the tactics. And when it comes to the subtle manipulation tactics that get used on us that we don't realize, we end up losing our confidence, not trusting our gut intuition. And unfortunately, that often can lead to toxicity in a relationship. And I've just done a lot of interviews with criminal psychologists and things like that where you see it unfortunately go to coercive control to stalking to murder. Yeah. So, Chase, thank you

so much for coming on. Where can people find you, all the amazing work and your book and everything that you're up to? Just uh NCI, which is the system that we teach uh like N for November.ci.un university. We'll put a link. And so any socials you you got on your you're on YouTube. I'm on YouTube. There you go. He's on YouTube. Thanks, Lisa. Guys, guys, like I just said, it is so important that we women take the ownership to learn these things. It isn't our fault that we weren't taught it. It isn't our fault that

maybe we've been trapped before in past relationships because we didn't know any better. That isn't our fault. But let's ideally start taking the steps that it will need for us to learn this stuff so that we can spread it to our friends, spread it to our daughters, spread it to our sisters, our mothers, anybody out there that could be susceptible to getting themselves trapped in any scenario, whether it's with a narcissist, all the way to a psychopath. So guys, thank you so much for watching. Please do go follow Chase. And if you're not following me,

click that follow button down there. Until next time, guys. Be the hero of your own life, please. And ignore the fact that you pointed at me when she said psychopath. No, didn't I say chase, but I pointed at you. I'm in this way. This way, guys. Think that you can spot a psychopath? Well, click here and learn about the 20 red flags that will make you question the man lying next to you. The art of manipulation is someone making you do things and you don't even realize you're doing it. When someone's being gaslit by an

expert manipulator, they don't