The Dream Interview

I was a terrible kid it was the end of the world this was my life that's so dangerous I was so addicted explain dream to me he's a gamer who's hit his face there must be a reason is there a moment when lots of money starts coming in yes holy sh in one month oh my god dude and then I edited in a way where I cut things in almost like a misleading with how strategic of a marketer are you do you regret the face reveal it's hard to spend time on YouTube and not hear

dreams name or see his iconic smiley face he has over 30 million subscribers and some of his videos have upwards of a 100 million views now he grew through telling stories on Minecraft playing the game live and then editing those videos into cinematic stories while he was getting incredibly famous he also remained incredibly mysterious he never showed his face until 2022 when he decided to do a face reveal now this was a moment that took over the Internet over 40 million people watched as he revealed his face for the first time 6 months into 2023

dream announced that he's putting the mask back on which obviously made Colin and I incredibly curious he's also embarking into a career in music and is recently signed to Republic records which is a record label that also represents the Jonas Brothers Ariana Grande and Bo Burnham we talked to him about his origin story and dive deep into his childhood to get an understanding of how he became one of the biggest creators of Our Generation and as you'll see in the interview one of the best marketing Minds on the internet this is going to be interesting

for for us because this is the first time that we've interviewed someone where we can't see their facial expressions there well my my eyes are here okay good to know right in the middle that's where I am so you know we saw you at VidCon I don't know if you clocked this experience at all we were in the elevator with you really yeah it was just the three of us in the elevator me wait yeah wait really he was with security I was never alone but you were with security okay and you walk out and

Colin looks at me and I look at Colin and we like that wasn't dream like there's no way that was dream and then Colin goes yeah someone's making a video like I snuck into vidcon's dream real cool yeah and then also like I've just I've never seen you in person and you walked out and like your your back was big like a big dude a little more muscular and I was just like damn like if that is dream he's kind of like jacked I a little little little bit of the padding I know or I

guess just bigger than us taller and bigger than us but what's up man welcome to the show well thank you it's actually funny so you guys uh you guys probably don't know this and he probably didn't reveal it because he wouldn't but you actually met my brother really oh really yeah and no one you can't you can't tell anybody who it is okay okay yeah he was he he's the one who set this up yeah he he texted me and he was like I just met con and Samir and I told them I knew you

and could set up interview I was like let's do it that's sweet oh awesome yeah this kind of came together really quickly um but I'm really excited that it came together like super interested in just everything that's going on with you obious obviously like the place to start is the fact that you're wearing a mask right now yeah I think that's that's a good place you're sitting in front of us wearing the mask you've decided to put the mask back on You released a video called buy from dream which shows that you're putting the mask

back on comes with you releasing new music like what's what's going on in the world of dream right now yeah so I mean obviously I did my face reveal I mean I guess you can't tell now but I did my face reveal uh in October of last year um and uh and the whole time obviously the The Mask has been a massive part of everything I've done and I never actually planned to not show my face like I just started as a faceless Creator because of the fact that I never really showed my face online

I don't know there's probably a ton of reasons for that but I just never really had and I didn't have social media actually I didn't I didn't have a Twitter I didn't have a Facebook I didn't have Instagram I had like nothing before I I started YouTube and so I just happened to not really have many pictures of me on any of my or no pictures of me on any of my stuff and then fans took that and we're like oh my God he's like faceless and they started drawing fan art of me in a

mask and then I got sent a mask to my PO Bo and I was like that's so sick so it really was like made by the fans I guess and I never wanted to lose that because that that to me the mass became the meaning behind like anyone can be dream like any anyone can succeed and can do anything they want um and because of the fact that no one knew what I looked like or kind of like who I was and and that was something that I was like you could look up to that

kind of like I I saw a quote from Stanley about Spider-Man um a long time ago that was very similar I don't want to compare myself to a superhero I'm superhero dream but like it was it was inspiring and that he said like wanted Spider-Man covered from head to toe um because he wanted anyone you know no matter their race or or religion or wherever they're from to be able to be like I could be Spider-Man and so I kind of related to that and that I I I always wear I always wore gloves in

all my photos and I always did everything like as it became more of a part of kind of my image as as dream um to kind of have that of like you can be dream and anyone can be dream and and do what they want and then I did the face reveal and um this specialty mask that was made by an awesome company that did like a lot of the superhero masks yeah um punk too right yeah da Punk and like they they did marshmallow they a bunch of outsid of superheroes as well basically they

do like all the all the the awesome masks um they were working on it and we were we were kind of going back and forth for a really long time and I I always planned on uh you know keeping the mask and wearing it not not wearing it all the time you know but wearing it and making sure that at when I was dream you know I I really envisioned that I I really kept that that image and that meaning behind it because I feel like that's such an inspiring message to to kids and to

any everyone that watches dream and kind of knows who I am and inspires you to always smile and kind all those things behind it and then it took a lot longer to kind of have it made and so after a long period of time I was like oh God now it's weird if I just start wearing it randomly like to certain events and whatever and so I was like how can I how can I actually give a reason you know within like the dream lore and and the reason behind everything as to you know actually

make it make sense why I'm introducing it again and why it's why no it is a part of who I am and this is why it is and so I thought what's kind of a bigger news than deleting the face reveal and being like hey I'm putting I'm putting the mask back on to solidify that so is it more about the brand of dream than it is about what it was like personally not having the mask dealing with Fame oh I mean it's it's much more about the meaning behind the mask I mean yeah obviously

that goes into the branding and stuff but it's it's so much more about what the mask means to me and how how it felt when I was wearing it before and what I thought in terms of the inspiration for other people um and obviously I saw a lot of people obvious there was a lot of stuff whenever I did the face reveal with like dream was ugly was trending and other stuff but I did I've talked about that and stuff before and been like yeah but okay it had 6,000 tweets or whatever and the video

had 50 million views and it had there was a lot of there's so many positive comments and I've never gotten more support whenever that happened as well and so I think that I'm I have a very like healthy relationship with what I look like and and being like hey I'm happy with how I look and I don't you know I I I kind of the image I've always wanted to spread is like that you should just be yourself and not care and so that I think it goes a little bit against that to be like

no guys I'm ugly so I'm hiding my face like um that was obviously if you if you watch my video I did on it the buy from dream video it's satire I mean you can you can tell if you're watching it's my friend my roommate's burs in going you're ugly put the mask back on like you need to you need to cover that face you know whatever yeah um but surprisingly that video spread like wildfire but not the actual video itself but like the headline cuz the headline is so catchy of like dream gets hate

and deletes face reveal sometimes it just works out where you have something like that that pops up and you're like perfect that's something that I I've been curious about you for a while of like is it just that things kind of fall into place or how strategic of like a marketer are you you know cuz like your face reveal was one of the best internet campaigns I've ever seen like people reacting to your face prior to it yeah and you know there was part of me that was trying to understand like is this the face

reveal specifically is this a guy who really just wants to live life and you know be unrestricted by this concept of of wearing a mask be able to hang out with his friends go out in public uh make IRL content or is this really one of the sharpest marketing campaigns I've ever seen and and or is it a mix yeah so I I think I think the completely like honest answer is that it's almost always a mix like I feel like um I I've always I've always really lived by the quote that the best type

of marketing is marketing that doesn't feel like marketing yeah and so because I've always like lived by that and been like that is that is my thing if there's ever an opportunity where I go I I see something even if it's like a last minute that wasn't a part of the plan but I can make it seem like it's connected or whatever then I'll always jump that cuz I go that it feels the most natural because it is the most natural because it is something I didn't plan or it is something I didn't whatever it's

like I didn't for the long I wasn't going oh I'm going you know I'm when I face reveal I'm going to do this I'm going to have these reaction videos um but what happened was I I I did a I did the I did the first one with George because I always promised him hey I'll show you my face as soon as your Visa is approved and so he texted me he said my Visa is approved I'm able to come because he was going to move to America with with me so I was like awesome

I'll show you my face as soon he was like he hasn't seen my face he was one my best friends for like 10 years he had never seen my face that's a wild he was always asking for like the first like 5 years and then the next like five years he was saying like I was saying like I was like do you want to see and I was willing to show him because some my other friends had seen and he was like no at this point I don't want to be spoiled like I'd rather just

wait until the big moment and see it myself and so he got his Visa approved he texted me I facetimed him and seeing his reaction and like how and you know how he reacted and everything um really made me realize like wow to even to me who knows what I look like it was just kind of so intriguing to I didn't know how he was going to react I was like you're just seeing your friend like how do you react it's just a guy that you've known for 10 years you've never seen to me seeing

his seeing his face seeing what he said seeing the way he described me seeing that really made it interesting to me and I was like wow I feel like that probably is just as interesting as everyone else and so I was like I want to do that for everyone and so I started reaching out to my friends and then as soon as I did that I was like why just my friends I'm I trust Mark Rober to not he's not going to Tweet out my face or something there were certain creators reached out that I

was like eh I could see them maybe being like I got dream and doing like a prank or something so I was like h i I'll wait but I also FaceTime just out of Interest like people off camera like Mr Beast I facetimed him before I did the face reveal completely off camera and and a couple of more of my friends that never even posted it or anything yeah and um it really it really was that took over and and it was also for creators like us there was an element of fomo for us to

be like damn we didn't get the dream call you know what I mean yeah I think like that's the thing where people also there's a couple creat that like I didn't really have anything to do with I took risk I just tweeted like yo dream and I was like sure you know what fine Marquez brownley was the one for me where I was like oh wow he's really like spanning Beyond kind of his Niche and going into like big creators like I don't remember how that happened I think I I think I was just scrolling

through my following and I saw him and I was like that's sick I love Mar he seems like a good stand guy show my face why not yeah and then that that was fun his his reaction was so funny CU like he didn't have any expectations I'm sure he was just like sure I'll see it he was like oh there you go cool cool but the push back a little bit for me reminded me as a Creator the first time you have a video that goes viral and goes outside of your own audience and you

start checking the comments and they start getting a little bit negative and you're like wait a minute this is not my actual audience you know like if you do a face reveal to just the core audience it's probably majority positive you turned it into such a cultural moment that it like trended on Twitter and everyone got to weigh in even if it was the first time that they've heard about you take us take us into that moment of like the actual face reveal video because I'm in the world but I was getting texts from people

you know my sister-in-law who's not in this world at all was like explain dream to me that that night I mean had like a million people were waiting for the premier it was like 10 before the premier there was a million people waiting I was like oh my God like I've I've done like massive streams that had massive viewership that were not even close to that and they're waiting they're not even like the video is not even playing they're just like oh it's about to happen um and I think yeah I mean it really it

really did like that that was the biggest reason I saw I see criticism all the time for people being like well yeah obviously people are going to say he was ugly or whatever or or or one way the other because he hyped it up so much and he's just a normal looking guy or whatever I was like I wasn't trying to Hype it up I was trying I mean I was trying to Hype up the the moment I wasn't trying to Hype me up be like look I'm so like get ready for this face get

ready for Al get ready get ready for me man I've I've been putting in these gains behind this mask for so long like I actually thought you were I'm this is I don't know what this says about me or Society but I I thought you were better looking than I anticipated when You Face W hey I I think that um I'm sure there's a lot of people on both [Music] oh man AER whoit his be reason I had I had people like actual close friends of mine that said something along those lines to me afterwards

they're like man like I I mean I don't want to say I thought you were ugly but like I always assumed that hey you there's probably a you're probably uncomfortable with how you look you're going to be awkward or you're going to be you know whatever because of that um and so and they were even some of my close friends were surprised being like Oh you're you know you're you're just a normal guy yeah I think that that that that did the fact that it was hyped up so much yeah did really create that hatred

I guess and that like what the hell why he why is his face so popular he's just a normal guy but what does it feel like to like the day after I think it had 40 million views right I have honestly I don't remember I know it had it was like 25 million views I think in 24 hours or something so so by the end of the week it had over 40 million views right I remember looking at that and thinking like what does that feel like that 40 million people were interested in that it

felt to me it really felt like uh it was was this I like I cried tears of joy afterwards for sure and it was really because like I I put so much effort into not making sure I had that moment and the fact that yeah you said the whole thing about you know marketing yeah not even necessarily marketing but just the fact that I had this plan of hey I want to reveal my face on my own time I want to have this big I want this to be a big moment because I I hid

I I like put stuff up in my windows I went out in the back of a car whenever I left my house I went to the dentist in another state because people knew I lived in the Orlando area so like I was like I am not having this moment taken from me and so the fact that it was it ended up being as big of a moment as it was really actually if if it had let's say got a million views I I would have been just as happy like oh I get to go see

my friends but I would have been like damn did I really just spend a year and a half like you hiding like I'm some like fugitive or something just for that so like I think that uh if you believe in something and you you want to do it you know do it your own way and don't let anyone tell you how to do it so for someone who maybe is not familiar with your work or why 40 million people the day after would be interested in what your face looks like how do you explain what

the Core Essence is of your work like what makes your videos your art impactful yeah I mean I think that I do so much different stuff but I guess in my mind it all it's kind of under the the the it all kind of has one central theme and that I I I love to entertain people um obviously my biggest thing was through storytelling I love storytelling I I grew up wanting to be an author I wrote you know two 75,000 book word novels when I was like 16 and I that was my dream job

I was like I'm gonna be an author obviously there was a long Peri of my life as well even throughout that time where I was like I'm going be a YouTuber I I posted tons of YouTube videos but everyone wanted to be a YouTuber not necessarily everyone wanted to be an author and so I I like to say that that was kind of what were those books about they were a young adult like dystopian books so it was very much like I read a lot of like young adult dystopian so like Hunger Games and stuff

like you know Divergent and um Percy Jackson and the Olympians and um you know Alex Ryder there's so many that I read when I was a kid I I used to read a 100 books a year from when I was like 14 to 18 and there was a couple years there where I read almost a book every other day and that was that was like my passion I like I I was tanking in my school because I would just be in math class reading or writing in my journals or whatever um but so I guess

the best way to describe what I do in terms of like if I'm trying to be accurate and not just talk about necessarily the meaning behind it is is just I I try and entertain people make people make people happy and I do that you know through many different ways one of them is obviously you know Minecraft videos um I've played Minecraft since I was a kid and it makes me happy so I try and share those moments people that are in my videos on YouTube I've known since I was 10 and 11 and 12

and uh we were friends long before we did YouTube and just decided to do YouTube together um we all had no subscribers when we started together and now we all have you know a lot so we really did just you know capture those moments and put them out there while also applying you know strategy and and marketing and these things to make sure that most people can see it and and in my mind I've always had that that vision of like I want to have the biggest impact I can on the world like while I'm

here um and so I think that you know marketing and and strategy and all those things are just the The Vessel to to do that with my content and so it's not forming the content around the marketing it's forming the marketing around the content that I want to put out and so I think that that includes sometimes writing with with writing music with writing like shows and stuff because I I've done stuff for like the dream SMP on Twitch I'm y I'm going get lost a little bit get that's also very much storytelling and then

uh and then obviously my videos I start my one of my first videos was like a storytelling story about like PewDiePie's Minecraft world and his seed and I did like Unsolved Mysteries in Minecraft and and then that kind of shifted into Manhunt my biggest series um which at the end of the day when you break it down is is a story I mean you you can watch it like an anime which is why it has so many views and people that are into it cuz you can watch it and go that's a tree that's a

Minecraft character and you're just you're you're following who people are and what they're saying and what they're doing it's less about the game and more about the story and the emotion you took one of the like most popular canvases Minecraft and you applied your deep knowledge of Storytelling from reading and understanding story to that at least that's my vantage point on it is like I can see that you did something different you were like hey this is a canvas that like hundreds of millions of people understand I'm going to apply storytelling to it yeah and

I I genuinely like I genuinely love Minecraft and I'll always speak the praise of Minecraft as a game itself it's just a Sandbox and they have done such a good job of just being like hey do what you want with it you know mod it do whatever make money off of it like my first job was Minecraft like I was making money from you know coding Minecraft stuff and um and that's that's one and I met most of my friends on Minecraft servers that were just run by independent businesses and I think that Minecraft and

Mojang have done like such an amazing job of making the game not only like fun to play because it's it's a good game but really just like a game where they were like hey this is a community game we're going to do what you guys want we're going to make it so you can do whatever you want and I think that's why I've been able to play it for so long without being like hey I'm bored of this game now because it's been you know a year or whatever like I've done with a lot of

games I've played I'm curious though like thinking about reading 100 books a year like makes me think about who were you as a kid like who were you in high school you know because like that that's a very specific thing to do uh read like a book every other day yeah I was I feel like um I I was a book nerd for sure I was not a I I hated school I I despised school I was like what's the point of school I don't even want to any of the stuff I'm learning you're teaching

me all this stuff about stuff that I I you know I don't I don't care about I want to I want to do my own thing and so um uh in in high school I mean I I was only in physical high school for less than a year um and then I I actually was in this big battle with my parents over like I want to go in online school these electives that they have at this school I don't I want to go into technology and I they have no like Tech collectives and and so

I went to this big battle to where eventually I don't recommend it and I I look back and go man I did some stupid stuff when I was a kid but I was like all right you guys aren't putting me online school I'm not going to school then and I just stopped going to school I actually got arrested for treny for not going to school what is TR treny is treny is you don't go to school for an extended period of time and and then uh it's illegal because you if you're a kid you're under

16 no way not going to school you can um who and then I got charged with resisting arrest because I was not the cop came to the back door and was like you need to go to school and I was like haha the door's locked you're not coming in like not that but like essentially wow I'm not opening the door so did did the school call the cops or did your parents call the my parents did parents called the they've talked so many times since then it's it's so actually I've never told this story it's

so interesting but they've said so many times since then like we regret calling the cops not because it was not the right thing to do because the cops like you're charging a 16y or 15 I was 15 a 15-year-old kid with like resisting arrest for not opening a door to you like that could have obviously because of the fact I was so young and because I was able to just be like you know take guidance from my parents and stuff I was able it was expunged and nothing ever came of it like that could have

ruined my life I that could have affected me not getting jobs and all this stuff and yeah I you know maybe I would have deserved it a little bit but I was just an idiot doing ID kid Stu but yeah I feel like some of my I've said this I think some of my creativity actually probably unfortunately spawns from the fact that there was this like ongoing battle between me and my parents for so long where it was like they would not give in and I would not give in to like what I wanted to

do and so it was like they would take away the computer but then how do I how do I get on the computer how do I get on the internet how do I how do I do these things without them knowing and it became this battle where like there was one point where like I had like a this is makes me like I was a terrible kid I was like for my parents I was the worst kid ever to other people I was very nice I was respectful you know whatever but like I had a

a wire from my my neighbor's plug run to my window down under and like around in my closet so my parents like wouldn't see it to be able to charge my laptop that I I slept under my pillow that way they could not take it away from me um if that helps in tell you what type of kid I was I was like kind of like a a little Dev like kid who was I was so strong and like and confident in what I wanted to do and what I wanted to be and I I

would never take you know I would never take like no you can't do what you want got creative to make that stuff happen were you the younger sibling or I have three siblings I have an older sister a younger brother and a younger sister so I'm a middle middle child you're right in the middle okay I'm curious where friends come into the picture here because when I think about reading a 100 books a year or fighting for access to the internet like that yeah to be on it all of those to me seem like solitary

Pursuits I didn't have many friends I didn't have many friends and I think that's one of the reasons as well I was able to keep my face reveal um like private for so long is because I had like I had two really close friends when I was growing up uh they were my two Nextdoor neighbors and then we moved and I hardly saw them ever again even though I I I and I'm still friends with them to this day but I yeah I like those two guys and then I had when when we moved we

moved to another neighborhood I had one guy there that he ended up moving away at some point um but almost all my friends that I've had that I have now in my life are online friends and people that I met that I met online um but in terms of real life yeah I had I had my next door neighbors when I was like in middle school and then in high school I I really isolated myself I went through like a massive depression when I was like 15 and it was very much self-caused by me isolating

myself and and not you know feeling like I I just felt like I couldn't I really wanted to be an author I really wanted to go into Tech and I felt like neither of those were going to happen and so it made me really really upset yeah and so I I was in this battle where I was like suicidal and I was like telling my parents like if I can't do this you know I'm you know I want to die I don't want to I don't want to I don't want to work a normal job

you know whatever I want to I want to do what I want to do and so eventually luckily I kind of grew up a little bit and realized like well you have to make it happen then it's not you know these are the confines these are what this is what you're working with you have to go to school you have to you have to you know get a job you have to you know do these things and eventually once I came to terms with that I was able to be like hey yeah I kind of

have to be an adult and be reasonable and realize that everyone else has the same rules you know you work within the rules of the world and then you you do what you can and so uh yeah I I I worked my ass off I I I did online schooling I I actually ended up graduating early and I did I had a bunch of Tech certifications because on I abused the heck out of a program in Florida that they it's called FLVS it's like a Florida Virtual School where they allow you to get uh like

free Tech certifications and um I did all of that um and got like certified in a crap ton of different stuff when I was like 17 what skills are you learning when you're taking these Tech certifications like I did a lot of like networking um there were some of them were were based on like Windows and then hardware and software got it um certifications um there was I know I know a cple I know I got like networking plus um certification at the same time I was teaching myself um Java which is a programming language

which I actually that's the only thing I don't have a certification and that's the one thing I actually know how to do it's still and can code you code cool stuff um but that one was that I guess the reason I know that one is because I actually was passionate about that and I I only learned because I had the idea for a Minecraft server I went to my friend who ran one and it was a business and he's like this is the this is how much it would cost and I was like well I

don't have that much money and I was like you know what I I'm going to do it myself my dad's a developer um if he can do it it's probably jeans I can do it too and so I I went and watched YouTube tutorials and stuff and then started coding stuff myself and that was that became my thing which actually got my YouTube videos I use that a lot so that's interesting that your dad's a developer so that was around you when you were growing up yeah no he my dad's was a massive Tech Guy

even my grandpa my grandpa was like I don't want to say friends but he like he worked with like Steve Jobs and stuff on like and he he worked on like one of the first computers ever made and um so I I had a big my the men in my family had a big Tech background and so I always really did look up to um like technology I've always been really into technology but it's interesting enough even though everyone would when I got asked as a kid like oh like at least not as a kid

when I was 17 18 oh what are you going to do as your job it was always something Tech related put in the back of mind it's like that's not what I want to do but I never say that I just be like yeah I'm gonna be a developer I'm gonna be you know this or that super interesting that was like an answer that everyone would accept it's like part of your family but I would tell my family I'd be like no I'm doing I'm doing this I'm I'm I'm going to end up making this

work or or whatever and and then uh I mean the story I I don't know if we want to get into right now but the story of how I started my YouTube channel yeah let's get into it is is actually very interesting I guess and I think it's it's very showing the same thing with like the dedication behind the face reveal and stuff like I I uh I got a job um working at Apple and that was again I used a lot of my certifications and stuff when I was 18 um you worked at Apple

I worked at Apple so okay Apple Care so it was it was but it was at Apple and I I was still Apple yeah and I was a like a I actually was the highest level of support at Apple Care so I had like a phone number that people you could call like important clients and stuff could call to get the problems that like if if you went through 10 people and they couldn't solve it then it would get to me again I actually learned a lot of uh stuff there that played into YouTube like

I learned how people think like because one thing they taught at Apple was and I went through like it was like a three-month training before I even got the job um and it was like one thing that they taught strongly was like you're not just fixing a problem you're fixing a person like the the person they might their problem might not just be the problem they might have a problem with the last 10 people they T talked they might have a problem with you know they might have they might have a problem with just the

day they're having they might have a problem that they don't even realize they have that you can help them fix while you're on the phone with them there that's so Apple it is so is so and I I will still say I think Apple support is one of the best support systems I've ever seen and working on the inside even so I'd be like yeah it was amazing and and great interesting um and so I I I got better and better at it over time and in learning what people how people think and I definitely

used that when I started YouTube but but I I I so that was when I was 18 I was working at Apple I I saved up about $20,000 um from working there for uh you know almost a year and um and then I was like I I went to my parents and I was like I'm going to do YouTube so I'm G to quit my job and I had not posted a single YouTube video I was like I'm gonna quit my job and I'm gonna do YouTube um my parents were like no don't do that

what you're job get the cops back here exactly and they're like they're like eventually they're like okay but if you do you run out of money you're not coming back with us just so you know you're not coming now realistically they would have me back would but um but I didn't think that at the time of course and I was like oh God this is this is all or nothing and so um I came with like a I was like I need to plan if if I'm if this is going to be my job I

need to treat it like a job I need to actually have a strategy I need to have a plan I need to know what I'm doing and so I I I quit my job and then I was doing you know for like three uh six months because I quit in January and then I had there was six months until I uploaded my first video which was in uh June or July of um 2019 and um so I quit my job in January and I was like okay I'm coming with a plan and while I was

doing that I was doing like little side Minecraft projects for coding I actually worked for some other like YouTubers that that were I I did videos for their on their Channel where I coded stuff for them um which ended up playing a big part into I learned some stuff during that period while also just literally studying I I I I looked I I used to say I read tons of information about it like hundreds of books worth every was like What books like not actually books I read like I would watch YouTube videos I would

look at what's working from people and I would just really just overanalyze everything like I would I would listen to the intro 100 times like what makes this intro better than something what makes Mr Beast intro better than everyone else I'm going to go through it you know what there's I'll notice things in descriptions and be like that one he's doing something interesting he doesn't that like as an example this is example free to give out I was like oh like Mr Beast like he I don't know if he does it now but at the

time he didn't link anything description he put his social media he' put like social media and then whatever and didn't have a link and I was like that's interesting why does he do that is there a reason why it'd be good and so I was like analyzing I was like oh maybe you know I don't even know if this is true but I was like maybe if you don't if you make it not a link then people are less likely to like during the video click off and like mess with the retention cuz like they

they click the link and then they leave the video and they come back and you just have two views that for like the less retention and so I just there was probably a thousand different things like that that I I found like little tiny small things that really add up I guess in the grand scheme of things some of them are probably a little superstitious and then it's like oh you know like is it does it really make that big of a difference like at the end of the day you have to make good content

yeah um and that that's something I learned as well I was like well at the end of the day I have to actually make high quality good content but if I follow all these tricks and tips then then I can um and then I eventually got to the point where I was confident enough to um go into it I remember I was in a cce's piz a parking lot with my sister um and she's like she's like so what are you doing now you're not Apple I'm like well starting soon I'm uploading a video I'm

going to be a massive YouTuber and she's like no you're not and I was like no I am she's like you've told me this before I was like yeah but I didn't actually mean it before I mean it now and I'm going to I promise you and and I actually was running out of money in my savings I had uh I had no money left in my savings and my rent was due um in the next week and YouTube they send you a little slip they have to sent your address to get your first paycheck

the worst yeah yeah the pin and they sent you the wrong address and so uh I I was able to confirm to get my payment and so I was like I ended up calling my friend B Halo who's another YouTuber of mine and I was like hey man I'm too embarrassed to call my parents I I don't I don't want to ask my parents for money if I need money I don't know if I will because I could get the slip in time will you lend me money I promise you look I have this YouTube

owes me you know $5,000 or whatever it was um you know will you you will you love me money he was like yeah man and that made me feel a lot better not like freak out about what I was going to do um but then I I got the sliping time and I got my first paycheck literally that week and I I I I think back with this crazy thing of like when you say is it planned like if I that my first video had not blown up as much as it did and that was

delayed by one month I probably would have just gone back to Apple and been like hey I was a employee take me back and I would have started the cycle maybe of of just saving up and then being like I really want to do this thing quitting and interesting okay so I want to go back a little bit in time to something you said yeah it's all good the pursuit of YouTube is is always interesting to me because like I was just having a conversation with my mom about it this morning this kind of like

at least for me this like desire for um validation and for other people to like even quantifiable validation where there's like numbers next to it right and I think back to what what you were just mentioning of like you shared with us you you were went through a bout of depression and um there's a line in one of your songs which is a song I really like mask uh that Colin and I wrote down we thought it was really interesting says the fact is I can never get off my mattress all they ask is why

are you so sad kid that's what the mask is that's the whole point or that's what the whole point of the Mask is um you talk about how the best lyricism in history folks dude it's pretty good honestly I I thought like I we wrote that down because we're like that's pretty good lyrics I I think that a lot of people make fun of a lot of the lyrics from some of my old music and I I actually I I think I think everyone that's in art looks back on their old stuff and cringes so

I look back at that and go oh cringey I know what I was trying to say but I know how maybe i' say it differently now sure um which is so funny I think I do that with videos with writing everything you look go oh that old video man that's I'm so I was so bad I'm just curious if like the desire to do YouTube to um you know put yourself out there and have feedback and get some level of like you know notoriety or or validation did that come as a response to your upbringing

or like you know feeling sad or maybe not having as many friends like I I definitely didn't uh go into YouTube for validation per se sure yeah but definitely uh with writing I I relate a lot more with writing but also with like YouTube and and gaming in general um I feel like gaming and and writing uh in the same way are an escape like I feel like you're in a different when you're writing you're creating your own world you're in your own world it's different has different rules it's you know whatever you want it

to be and in gaming it's the same way if you're if you're playing Minecraft you're playing whatever it's your own thing you can you can you know you can do whatever you want talk to whoever you want have you can you can choose the characters you know if if I don't want to have if I want my neighbor to be different and if I'm online I have an online friend oh I can not talk to that person and they're not my neighbor I can change my neighbor and make it someone new and so I feel

like I really I it really I looked at gaming and also writing in the same way as this escape from um like sadness I guess and so when I was going through uh depression definitely my biggest Escape was writing and gaming and during when I was uh like 16 and 17 those my probably my two worst most depressed years I'd say maybe 15 15 in there lose track of the timelines but um and during those years I was the most creative I'd ever been probably since then like I I literally during those two years I

wrote 275,000 word novels I coded a ma like two massive Minecraft Networks one of them is still up to this day and has you know players on I don't I don't know anything to do with that anymore I don't do anything on it but I I and I and I I literally was every day just putting creativity out into the world because that was what made me feel validated like and in control probably and and in control of my own stuff I could you know I coded something oh I want to want to have this

I want to do this play this game today I'm going to code this game and I'm going to have fun with that and I'm going to be happy about that because that's what it was and so that's why whenever I I I say I was this brat I was such a bad kid and I did all these stupid things to try and get the internet but it's to me it was like it was the end of the world you took you took away the internet from me this was like my this was my life I

had this was this was my escape from my sadness you're just plunging me into the S and I was hating my parents and I had such a bad relationship with my my mom and my dad and uh especially my dad back then we we were we were into it and and uh we were at each other's throats all the time he would looking back on it it was mostly me out of his throat and him just being like stop being such an idiot like not that you know sure um and so uh yeah but I

I feel like that's that's why it really was such a thing it was like you're ripping my like heart out you're ripping this thing and it is an addiction as well like just to go back and admit that like I was so so addicted you can get addicted to um to almost anything obviously not just drugs or whatever but um I feel like with uh with I was addicted but uh it luckily it ended up the fact that I spent all that time doing all those things that improved my life massively so I'm almost thankful

for the experiences that I had um and uh I was able to learn a lot from the things I did wrong and and the things I did right and then uh also just from you know being sad I guess made made me made me happier now because I'm able to appreciate the fact that I wasn't always happy and now I feel like I am almost always happy now um and not even just because of my circumstances I was this way probably since I was 18 or since I was maybe 17 and a half after I

kind of had not everyone has this and there's obviously a million different experiences with depression and with sadness and um I I had I kind of had a realization at one point where I was like I'm in control of my life and I need to like this is as much as writing is my own world and and gaming is my own world like my brain is is my like my castle my brain is my own world like if I if I tell it's like the placebo effect if I tell myself something enough it can be

I can make it true I can make it true I am the I'm the best most awesome you know most handsome you know strongest whatever guy in the world I'm going to I'm going to kill it I'm going to be I'm going to be you know billionaire you whatever and I think that that's something that I I said as a kid so much of just just these these these little statements of I'm going to be successful I'm going to be an author I'm going to be a YouTuber I'm going to be this as these things

even getting in fights like I had a fight with my older sister when it was over college and uh my parents my parents uh were incredibly responsible parents and they they had like uh College packages so for like for all of us um there's like a Florida I think it's in Florida you can do where you can like prepay over time for college and then you get into whatever University you want or something like that and so they had that for you know for for me and so it was a conversation when I was like

17 where they're like hey we have this for you and we we you know we want you to college and my sister was there and I was saying I'm not going to college so thank you but no thank you um and uh my sister was like you are such an idiot like you're going to be homeless in three years my parents were not saying that they they were saying okay that's that's fine you know you know we respect whatever you want to do um because like I said at that time I was much more I

I was I was much more adult then than I was now but I still had a lot of childish Tendencies um and I remember I remember like I remember saying it the co one of the cockiest things probably i' ever said I was like no I'll be making more money than you in 10 years you know whatever and you'll be stuck in college debt and I was like I was like all right well I don't know how nice or true true that was but it was that that mindset of like confidence not to the level

of of being outwardly talking to everybody being like no I'm better than you or something but being like with myself like no don't tell me I have to go to college don't tell me I have to do this I'm going to find my own way to do what I want to do and I'm going to make it happen create my own reality yeah you have to believe it for yourself no one else is going to believe it for you on your you have to believe in yourself I I I had this is a very very

short thing but I it's a it's I feel like it's an interesting life thing I realized at some point I was like I I'm I think I'm I'm very like creatively intelligent um I don't think I'm very like book smart I'm not I'm not I'm terrible at math I'm not you know I don't know my history that well I'm not great at science you know all these subjects um but I'm great at talking to people and I'm I'm great at understanding people and I'm great at you know exuding like confidence and and and uh and

energy and happiness and I feel like I realized at some point probably around when I was like 17 I was like that's almost more important than anything else because if you can go into like as an example if you can go into you can be the smartest person in the world and sit down and you're my interviewer and you ask me questions and I I see I'm unsure I answer them poorly you whatever versus I I could come into the room with the interview and I could convince convince you of whatever I convin you no

I'm whatever I did I actually did that when I interviewed for apple and that like I was totally underqualified I not when I went to that interview um I I was totally underqualified but I was able to walk my walk my way around the interview very well and I'm sure they they weren't naive and you know they probably realized I was puffing myself up a little bit and whatever but at the end of the day I think that it was that I was also willing to admit when I didn't know something or just be like

oh no but you know what I would they'd say what would you do in this situation instead of being like Oh I would I tell them the problem be like oh well I don't know the answer to that therefore I would Google it and I would try and figure out I would use Reddit or whatever and I think it's just a weird answer to hear and I answer that question a lot when they were like how would you fix this problem like well i' probably go on Reddit and then they're sitting there like this is

an apple interview what do you mean you go on Reddit I'm like well that's what I would do and guess what I probably saw it faster than the average person because I can type FAS interesting yeah whatever do you think that honesty and that confidence that fake it till you make it is a big part of why your first YouTube video took off because seldom does a first YouTube video take off let alone Someone Like You Under Pressure who's like I'm going all in yeah I will say I I think I think it's I I

I always say on my first video but I I I slightly misleading so just to give context I've been uploading YouTube videos since I was like a little kid like I did like these like kid versus Wild videos where like I was in the forest with my friends when I was like 10 like you were vlogging like yeah I I did like I I had this this Vlog Series where I like went talked about like Yu-Gi-Oh cards and at some point I went through a phase where I I like did I did I I wanted

to be an editor so I started editing and I uh I edited like montages of like football players and then I went into like song parodies at some point and I kind of went through all these different phases as a YouTuber and um and one of them was on actually on my channel I now but it was branded as a different name it was dream traps and it was back in like 2013 um and I I did Minecraft like traps like I would I would trick other players into like falling into some crazy thing and

those are my videos and uh and yeah actually that channel I I ran with um sapnap uh he was he had a different name at the time um we we ran this channel together I it was called dream traps it was a group Channel and then at one point I was like uh I I when I decided I was going to do YouTube when I came back I was like I did everything wrong and I want to do things right and so I was like I want somebody to watch the videos on my channel now

and be like oh um and not get recommended an old video and be like oh this guy's this guy's kind of trash and so for the first for the longest time I started uploading I I uploaded I actually uploaded one video before my first video um I don't think I've ever said this it was like six months or five months or something before my first video I ever uploaded as dream um or not six month it probably like three months or something or two months um and it was a I don't remember what it was

exactly it was a video on a server I was a coder on um and it did terribly it flopped and I just deleted it and went I'm trying again I learn from that I know what I did wrong I think this is what people said in the comments this is what this is what I feel like I can do better um and it also solidified I was like okay I'm not ready yet so I took another month or two to actually come with even more of a plan and be like how can I you know

how can I learn what I did wrong like Mr Beast even has videos up from when he was you know playing Minecraft or whatever and a lot of people keep their stuff up and I I see a lot of people talk about like oh it's bad to remove your old stuff like leave it up people want to see where you came from and I agree with that um but at the same time I was like I I really wanted to I wanted to create a brand I wanted to create be like hey no this is

me this does not represent how I view myself right now I want to be viewed this certain way and so here's my new brand and so I you know I change I made my my channel onc I drew it myself I came up with the the um the concept I was like how can I make it different than someone else because I I I I said this off camera to you guys but one of the things I think is people ask for advice the best advice I can ever give someone on how to be successful

in anything really but in YouTube specifically is just you have to do something that is different than someone has done or better than someone has done so if you if you're taking inspiration from someone how can you do it better if you're going to see a Mr Beast video and be like I want to do that that something like that Mr Beast that's perfectly fine but be like how can I what did he what did he do wrong I'm sure there's always something you can take and improve because guess what he does that himself to

every single video he'll go back and watch through I'm sure and be like what can I do better in my own video so doing that to other people and doing it to yourself is is like really important and um and I feel like I I did that and then I I came up with I was like okay how can I make it different for my channel branding I was like What if I just made my channel branding like kind of crappy I just made it kind of like just it's not it looks like I didn't

try and so I I do like a little smile guy and then I was like how I else going to get I was like What if I just use like a repulsive color I was like I just use the most standout color so I went into paint.net and I picked like piss green and went on my channel and was like you know what that's cool and uh and I I I ran with that and then and of course then I shortened the name from dream traps to dream because I was like dream stands out more

I got so much people so many people at the time that were like even when I was first blowing up there were questioning that decision and we're like dream like how you can't Google that you can't whatever but I was like but it's so simple it's so easy to spread it's so unique and it also encaptures everything that I love about myself and everything that I love about the world and that it's a dream it dream is the word dream I want everything I do to feel like that to feel like the word dream like

you can be you have your own world you have everything you can do and so I really I thought I was like no I I don't care if you can't Google it eventually if I'm big enough you can you you'll look up dream and pop me up instead of the definition of the word or whatever it's all in the line of like creating your own reality yes even The Branding right it's like the smiley face like I can I can create my own version of it even a pre face reveal right like yeah it's like

a voice and a and a and an image and a concept and I could create my own version of it I think with the name it reminds me a lot of Apple like that's something that I'm pretty sure Apple also dealt with like you can't choose the name apple right and expect to launch a tech company off of that name because people know it as a fruit yeah like truly I think that's something that that uh wasn't it because it originally well I guess it was Macintosh it was like that was a company right was

that they started as MacIntosh and then became apple or do do you know I think Steve Jobs wanted it uh to be something that was accessible like a household item not something like Microsoft that people don't understand like what Microsoft is or what that means um but I remember it was either in uh the book that was written about Steve Jobs life or in one of the movies uh talking about that idea that like and having push back on a name that like you can't pick an accessible name so it's it's it's funny actually so

talking about Nam so my two roommates right now and my best friends for the longest time George notfound and sapnap um they both went under different names and we were friends for a very long time and when I my first video blew up um and then I I was okay I'm not I'm still this could just be one and whatever I think I know what I'm doing I think I have a good strategy but I'm going to apply it a couple more times see what happens I had video it kept doing well um I went

to First George and then sapnap and I was like hey I think I cracked the code to YouTube I think I know how whatever but I was like but I need you I need you to be a part of it um and I need sapnap to be a part of it and so I went to him and I was like if I if I like you know if I have a plan and I tell you it and you follow it like to will you follow it to a te essentially and we follow it together we

put it together and he was like yes and um we we sat there I came with the name George found and sapnap for them and it we sat there together coming up with them um but it was a we had the rules for the name so I was like okay here's the rules the rules are one um it has to be short and simple it can't be it can't be too long George not found was like the most the longest Poss um I was like two it can't have almost any if we can think of

a single misspelling where someone could hear it vocally and misspell it then rule it out and so we there were so many names we went through where it was like ah but they can they can put an e there instead of an A or they can put a c there instead of an s or whatever and I was like no I want you to be able to say your name out loud and have no one mishar it no one be able to you know say it's not and I was like the other rule is you

have to able to get on every platform I was more for me I was like ah you can't we can't you I can't whatever um and then I was like and the final thing is that you have to be able to have some kind of meaning behind it it has to have some meaningful thing to you like to me dream is important and so we have to make it something meaningful it can't just be you know you can't just go oh I'm gonna name it you know some random collection of characters or whatever and so

how we came to sapnap was I flipped his old username which was pandas I flipped it upside down after it was upside down I flipped it sideways like the other way so it was a p instead or upside so it was like sapnap instead of a d and pandas it was a p like sap nap how do you misspell that and he was like sure should I buy the count I was like I already did um and I did the exact same thing with my friend George the one we were actually stuck on for him

for a while which he came up with was Sir George um and he was like oh cuz I can think of my branding with it I'll have like a little monocle and like which funny because he never did anything with like a mono or anything like that it would it be how the world would be different if Sir George existed George not found um but uh we came to J found because I was looking for uh it was when when I typed in um youtube.com Sir George or something like that it came on the not

found page what if it's just George not found I was like you're a coder has meaning to you because you code [Applause] we ran with that like I think there's no right blueprint otherwise everyone would do it if if there was like this this is the right way to do it but I think there are so many things you can do to increase the chances of you being successful that's just good branding yeah yeah so I I laid those things out and there was one of them and another thing that I said to them which

still is stands very much to this day is that we we are good friends and that we will be friends we will stay friends and we will stay together because one of the biggest things that actually does that can hurt like a is like it it you changing the heart behind it and I was like if we're going to do stuff together and you're going to be in all my videos we're going to be all each other's videos we have to know we actually like we have to know so we had this conversation where we

were like you know do we like love each other do we love each other enough to be like we are you know we're like family we are sticking together in this no matter what we will work out everything thick and thin and make sure we stay together otherwise let's be less Associated let's let's do our own thing a little bit more than being a team I was like even if this plan doesn't there might there may be times where you see it and you go ah it doesn't seem like it's working but the problem is

it has to all go together you can't you can't you can't take parts of it away otherwise you lose it all they both agreed sounds like a conversation that would be had at the beginning of the Beatles or One Direction right of like do we really like each other I saw a clip of one dire I had no idea this is so off topic but it's so quick I had no idea there was like a Tik Tok clip where it was like One Direction being formed I didn't know it was like it was formed by

them they had like little pictures it was like Simon cow or whatever I I saw that I thought it was like a troll like parody thing no it's real is this real like what but that friendship is so important like and I think because creating is a lonely career and it can be isolating you know Samir and I I think we've said often I don't know if we would still be doing this uh if it was just one of us right we took it a step further and had the channel together right me I would

not be just to save people oh that's a that's an air tag on my mask that's going off whoa okay I think someone's trying to find you oh is someone trying to find you no it's it's it's like a glitch happens now and then I think it's like a there's a are the police coming your call police there's like a piece of it I think it presses up against it or something and then it it makes um see I mean I do think like genuinely I can say right now with 100% confidence that if we

had decided to go more independent route and we were not you know a team and I hadn't done almost everything with them throughout the years that like there's been so many different times where throughout it where I I I may have just called it quits or been like uh hey I'm successful I'm going to go and do now that I have money or whatever I'm going to go and just write in my free time or I'm going to go and you know do do this or whatever I want to do and having them as a

support support of backing you know like no no I'm I'm also in it for I'm not just in it for me I'm in it for them I'm in it for my family I'm in it for whatever I think I think that definitely helped me as well so this like this strategy that you had clearly panned out right and it panned out really quickly you know your first or your second video blew up which was totally luck totally I mean yeah the strategy was not but it's like I there's another quote actually my dad used to

say a lot yeah um uh is he'd be like he's a sports guy and so he coached me in and stuff and he'd always say like like I'd say that was just a lucky shot like well like no luck is a combination of preparation and opportunity so yes it could be lucky but at the same time you know doesn't mean you you can't just like expect luck to come yeah so the fact that it was so quick was definitely luck and had a lot to do with um the the the covid pandemic because everyone went

inside and what are you going to do when you're inside you're going to watch YouTube or watch live streams and so I contribute how fast it was um to to that timing um but obviously yeah it did it did pan out and there there was a lot of luck and a lot of strategy and uh you know a lot of hiccups and stuff that popped up randomly that were like oh this works out it was 500 days between 1 million subscribers at the end of 2019 to 20 million subscribers that's crazy that is crazy yeah

that is just that is insane I I was I I was uh just I just hitting Milestones like twice a month or something and being like Oh my god um it it was really hard to it felt unreal I guess you I I always would be like I'm going to wake up and this is going to be fake like I this is not this is not how is this happening um and it was such a quick transition that I never really got to go through the phase of being like a mini celebrity to being like

it was just like no one knew me and then everyone knew me and I was the face of you know YouTube for a year or whatever yeah and so it's it's really interesting to think about that fact that I never I never it's the same way where like I never got that experience because especially because I was faceless and I I only face then it was of course that was my Max I went from you know never having been approached by anyone ever in public ever to literally not be able to leave my house without

going into a 7-Eleven and having somebody be like oh my god dream can I take a picture and so that's how did people know it was you no I'm saying after the faci reveal oh after fa so after the fa Ral was very I mean I had I had um I had a couple like scary moments before the faci reveal like I had one person that was delivering a mattress that was like um he's like do you do YouTube and I was like no why he's like you just sound familiar and I was like oh

okay yeah yeah I mean I I I I KN one before I did the did but then after I did I was like I I yeah would go outside and it would just be Mayhem and it's also it's one of the things where I I actually it was weird for the first like day or two and then I adjusted to it but I had this like uh this this moment where there was like a day or two where like it felt really weird going anywhere because even the people who didn't recognize me I I I

could sometimes see somebody whisper and be like oh my God are they talking about me they you know I didn't have the experience of knowing what it was like to kind of walk around in public yeah I but now now I'm okay with it I'm just I've accepted it and just like oh yeah you know who who cares whatever um but it's still that thought where like sometimes it bothers me more if I know someone knows me but they don't say anything or oh my God like I I'm like 99% sure this guy that's sitting

next to me at dinner knows me they're not saying anything so I'm constantly oh my God are they going to take a picture of me do I need to watch I need to make sure I don't pick my nose you whatever I mean we our our Fame and our level is nowhere near yours but even I've had an experience where I've been out to dinner uh with my partner and then after I'll get a comment on the channel that's like hey I didn't want to say anything but I was right next to you at a

communal table was the experience and you're like did I say something like oh we were kind of having like a serious conversation about our relationship and family and stuff like whoa I wish I knew that you were seated right next to me yeah I'll have that and it's it's it's it's to me it's it's funnier because like I keep obviously my family and like relationships and whatever separate very separate from um like YouTube and uh and like the public eye so no one knows my family or or you know whatever and um and so but

sometimes when I'm out in public I don't I don't mind I'll still go out in public with my family I'll still go out in public with you know people um friends whatever but um but like when I'm I noticed that when I'm with like my family the people I get come I get I get people coming up to me way less than I'm than when I'm with with like other people even people that they don't recognize like if I'm with George and they don't even they don't recognize George come to me oh my god dream

take a picture whereas I'm with like my mom or my dad they don't it's because I think they they recognize that's his mom or that's his dad or that's like you know someone he's with or whatever and then they don't come up and I'm like so then it makes me paranoid like it makes me more Paro like no no I want you to come that way I know I can tell my mom to go whatever um and so it's it just makes me extra like on edge on that rise to like just Mega kind of

high viewership just like massive notoriety on YouTube um I'm so curious about what makes a dream video so popular because some of your videos have in the hundreds of millions of views like what are the ingredients that make a dream video that popular I think that there's there's I've gone in obviously like phases of growth and I've posted a lot of videos I I think genuinely every video on my Channel right now I have up I'm pretty proud of I think they're they're good videos even the ones that I'm like a my mic was kind

of bad there or this this was a dumb joke or whatever um but I I think that they all have something very similar and that I I kept I kept with every series and every video I did one I kept improving um and two I kept trying to do something new something different that someone hadn't done or something um unique to me that I that I was I was passionate about and I think uh you mentioned like mask earlier but that that song the big point of that song to me even though yes it is

it was about obviously escapism kind of and through the mask it was also about my experience with ADHD which um which affected my life massively when I was going through school and and everything obviously I have like extreme intense ADHD like very extreme and so I go through these phases of like like hyperfixation where I'm like focused on something and I cannot like I want like like I deal with my books there was a period in time where I was just I was reading a book every single day and just that from morning to night

whatever I wouldn't enjoy doing anything else because that's what I liked at the time um um and I did that with different like YouTube series like I would get into a YouTube series like I love this you know what until I don't anymore and then I'm like oh okay I'll find something new um but I think that the biggest component for me was one everything I did I I truly had passion behind it was something that I that I actually did genuinely enjoy something I wanted to do it was not me going hey this could

blow up on YouTube it was me going hey this is a fun thing for me and my friends to play or this is a fun topic for me to talk about or this is a fun video for me to edit or this is going to be funny or you know whatever um so I think that's kind of one component is just Ely you know actually having your meaning behind your videos which is goes into like the name thing meaning behind your name that's important even though it seems not important it is important I think another

one was uh again doing doing things different so taking you can take the same concept and do it slightly differently so one thing I did was like I took a a pretty simple concept of like speedrunning Minecraft which became my biggest series of Manhunt and I was like well what if someone was trying to stop me from being the game that's kind of just an interesting you know an interesting component I Googled it and I tried to find if anyone had done that I found one video of like someone in Super Mario Brother or something

having done something Sim kind of similar and it did it did okay I think the video did decent I was like hey but no one's no one's like done this concept but it seems so simple you're just you're speedrunning the game which is a super popular thing and someone's like trying to fight you which is also a super popular kind of so for a non-gaming audience speedr running is you're trying to beat the game as fast as possible you're trying to complete the goal of the game as quickly as you possibly can and then the

Manhunt part is someone a new character or friend is trying to kill you is yeah they're trying to slow you down and make you make so you can't stop you from beating it so it's like yeah you're trying to beat the game as quickly as possible and there's someone that's trying to be your detriment they're trying to be your downfall that's just good storytelling too right it's like main character has an objective here's the obstacle and then and then you introduce what actually took it off so the first man hunt video actually did it did

okay um I did not go into that thinking this is going to be this massive series but I saw the potential after we did it I was like wow that was fun that was super fun I watched the video back and I was like this is epic um and I when I was editing it I actually was able to use music that I hadn't used before I was like it's actually interesting I'm using music that I don't typically here in uh Minecraft like gameplay like I'm I was using more intense like kind of like you

know opera music or something or stuff like that and I used a couple like that I only used the first man hun I only used like one or two songs like that um which ended up being almost all the music later on in the man hunts it was not a a great video but the concept was unique and then the music made it feel more intense than it was when there were certain moments and stuff and then I edited in a way where I cut out some I I cut I cut things in almost like

a misleading way like I I I cut things around I move things around I'm I'm kind of ious for like making it seem like something is true that's not in in the video to where like you can feel like I'm about to die when in reality if you're if you watch the raw footage you like oh he was not even close to dying he was like he was fine or he had some reason to believe that he was going to be fine um and so I I I realized after that first video that I did

I did a crappy job at it the editing was okay it was you know the concept we had the video wasn't that great but I realized the potential it had and so I I did it you know five six times kind of learning and I I you know trained and did and became a better Minecraft player as well kind of in that process and then I introduced going back to what you said about like two two awesome things there's the third one which is a you know just a worldwide understandable thing an underdog like if

you have an underdog so all I did was I was like what if I did the same thing but it's two people trying to stop me so the concept just becomes you know same thing Minecraft speedrunner versus two people instead of one person and in that it's the exact same concept but all of a sudden now you have someone to root for now you have a reason why you go not only you know I'm trying to beat the game someone trying St me but here's why it's hard because there's two of them and there's one

of me oh my God that's so are really easy Optics yeah it's it's such an easy thing you can you can anyone can see that thumbnail see two people and one person below and be like which I used almost every single video um which Mr Beast actually like called me one time and he was like why do you use this almost the same thumbnail on everyone and how does it work how does it keep getting the views I was like I think it's just because no one was doing what I was doing and so when

they saw that thumbnail or a very similar I I would change certain things just to make it so you would be like oh that's different um that you knew that was dream you go this is dream is a dream video wow I want to I want to watch this one you know that's the thing that's so important is like brands are consistent M you know at a glance you can tell if it's dream right and that's like from your your face your logo like there's so much the lime green I I made my Minecraft character

you can like you can customize it um like almost full body lime green and then like a little thing and one of the reasons for that was I was like it stands it like just stands out so much you see me like when I was small you'd see me in a thumb with other YouTubers and you just you would just see the green blob that's there instead of the other people cuz they just look like other Minecraft guys and everyone was like why do you have this skin it doesn't even look like a Minecraft skin

because it looks ridiculous and you look at it and go wow yeah so as your viewership really starts to take off Manhunt series is taking off what does your operation look like from a business perspective like is there a moment when lots of money starts coming in yeah um that's actually a really good question um I think that OB my first paycheck I ever got obviously was right before I you know my my rent but um I I don't remember a moment where it was like I think it went from zero to 100 so quickly

that I never had that moment where it was like oh my God I'm rich like that there was never that it was just kind of like this is working and then it was this constant fear of losing it was this constant fear of yeah I had made this this month but like this this could be gone so I need to grind my ass off to make sure that it's it's not this next month that it's gone um and so I never I never really had that moment I guess my operation's always kind of been it

still is it's definitely grown a lot more now like I still have edited every video that's ever post on my channel myself oh wow and I I plan on doing that on my main channel for the at least for the foreseeable future I've started branching out into we should get an editor for my second Channel an editor for shorts and stuff like that um because I definitely don't have the time anymore to do stuff like that but like I coded the plugins for the longest time on my channel me and George um we coded stuff

and until we hired a de a friend of ours that's a developer that we coded with and and stuff with and so we the stuff we really needed was like thumbnails to be made we made we photoshopped me and George would sit there and photosho them together the editing I did and then uh the the video Concepts we came up with and then the code to make them work we coded and so it was like the operation was really just like us spending every single day just grinding and doing it I think that the fact

that like we did that it made it more unique to us and made us so we had an advantage over other YouTubers and that like you know we wanted to do something in Minecraft we didn't have to you know go reach out to somebody and and pay and do all this stuff we were just like let's just do it let's code it let's let's make it happen and so for a lot of my first videos we did crazy things like a tornado into Minecraft or whatever that we just coded ourselves and we're like we can

put this in and no one else can do it because they can't code they're a YouTuber you so was there though like I've heard you say uh that like if someone asks you what you do and they aren't familiar with YouTube you say I'm in advertising I used to say that which I think is such an it's what Colin and I said and I still say sometimes if someone's completely unfamiliar I'm like I'm in the advertising business yeah so was that for you like initially the money was all coming from AdSense or did you start

doing brand deals like um yeah I mean it was all AdSense for the longest time um I uh I I released like merch I think in like 20 like mid 2020 it was good but it was not like a massive like Revenue stream until later on um and uh and then I yeah I had like a patreon where I posted the plugins that I would code got it um that was actually for a while that was a pretty big because we we I used to post like like maybe once twice a week or something and

with a new unique plugin I just put them all up on there for 20 bucks or whatever you could have all of them if you wanted and so that there was a lot of even other YouTubers that were like what and going and doing that that was for like a decent amount of time that was one of my biggest uh revenue streams actually do you remember like the first AdSense check you got where you were like holy like was there an amount that you were just like oh my God I think I think I I

it was a million dollars it was over a million dollar holy in one month yes oh my god dude I think that month um obviously I was like that is absurd to be able to play Minecraft and make Minecraft videos and and get a check in the mail that is million dollars and be like wow that is just incredible now that was not a common occurrence that's and what was your relationship to money growing up like as a as a kid in your family like what is your relationship to money like that that million dollars

can mean a lot of different things based on your relationship to to money yeah so I feel like I um uh I guess my res money is interesting I like my family's I think very very middle class um uh I think we we did go through some like Financial struggles and stuff that there was a when the recession hit we we moved and and stuff related obviously from that and so um we definitely went through like money problems but I never would say I'd still say we were middle class and my experience was always um

the fact that I I felt I felt I never my parents always did an amazing job of I never even knew that there was Financial struggles happening even during that time um you know you know I still Christmases were still the same whatever and everything was fine um my personal relationship with my parents always made me I guess work for everything that I would have I always had to I guess that's probably mostly normal but it was very much like a you know you you know we're not giving you money for anything you you want

to go to the movies or whatever maybe we'll give yous but if you want candy or something or anything or you want to drink or you want to go to you want to go to you know uh you want to buy a game or whatever you have to work work for it and they give me Avenues to do that you can do extra chores for money or whatever um but I remember uh the first time I I got a check where I was like this is extra money like this is not money that I I

don't have anything to spend this on right now yeah um it was uh I took $50,000 and I divided it up to my entire family I had my siblings I had $10,000 to my mom to my dad to my sister my other sister my brother um and I I did it because I felt like at that point I was like okay I'm at the point where I'm successful enough where um I I don't I if I lose it all I'm gonna feel like an idiot I'm gonna feel like I I I lost it all and

I I I'm a failure you know whatever but I felt like if I did that if I gave that money to my family that I could risk it all and never be worried that I'm going to feel like I'm a failure because I could feel like even if I lose it all I didn't lose it all because I there's there was a massive impact I had on my mom my dad my brother whatever and um so that that that was one of the first that was one of the first times where I felt like wow

I can really truly do good with the money that I have yeah um and I and I I did that I I continue to do that for you know a very long time with stuff like that like one of the after I got that million check the first thing I did was I paid off my grandparents house and they they were going to lose their house because they had been paying paying it for a while and they and uh paid it off and I was like you know what you're go and my grandma cried and

said I I told you you were going to used to my used to joke say like uh she used to joke and be like you're going to have to you're going to have to be rich and take care of me when you're older you know whatever and so that's making it at like a crazy level though man like that that's wild I'm sure your family was just like or even today I'm sure they're just like oh my God you you did the thing that you said you were going to do probably at a scale that

is unimaginable MH right yeah no my parents are always really supportive and my family in general was really supportive and proud of me I always get tear up with those messages from my dad given that we didn't used to have the best relationship even but we we l I think it's also important to me that I I I improved my relationship with my dad a lot before YouTube like it was not at all I was I was on really I was like best friends with my dad when I started YouTube but I wasn't for the

longest period of time but be able to be able to get a text from him saying I'm so proud of you you know you you are you inspire me so much because you do what you put your mind to and I'm like having that getting a text like that from like a family member or something is is really makes me think okay well what what's the impact I'm having on people that aren't amazing and so you um you know we've seen you at uh VidCon before and the crowds are like they're young and they're excited

and they're loud and they're large I'm curious for you what's your relationship with being in person in front of your fans uh with crowds that large I I feel like I weirdly haven't had it be I remember the first time I ever uh so there's a couple things one the first time I ever started interacting people in real life it definitely changed my perspective on the number 30 million or the number of I was like okay yeah that's that's that's crazy um and even just being able to be like Oh I'm in like some random

area in Alabama on a road trip or something I'm walking into a 7-Eleven and and and there's some you know older guy being like wait are are you are you dream it's like yeah I think the biggest crowd I've seen in our industry or like the most rabid crowd I've ever seen is the dream SMP crowd like at VidCon um when we saw like it's a closest thing to like Beetle Mania that I've seen is the dream SMP what is just to for anyone who's completely unfamiliar what is the dream SMP um and what do

you think has made it have this cultural significance that it does sure yeah I think uh so the dream S&P it's it's actually over now it's it's almost a show it was a show Almost um the best way to describe it is it was a live show that you could watch the perspective of any character you wanted to that's that's kind of the the best way to describe it but to break it down to what it actually is is it was a twitch stream from different perspectives of people like me or my friends or whatever

playing Minecraft and role playing live um to story points like we we'd come up with plots that we were going to do and then kind of roleplay them but we there' be sometimes things would change when we when we you know improv um and uh and and it was live on Twitch so that's kind of what it was but I like to relate it to like it was like a it was like a TV show you were watching it you were watching all these different characters but it was the first one you could ever pick

your character and watch their story no matter what it was I think that was the biggest thing that intrigued people about being like wow this is like a this is very very interesting uh like concept um and then I think that the fact that there was there it was like so people just just having fun and playing Minecraft in a unique way um for so long and and really being like personable I think I think the biggest reason that I've I feel like at least I feel like I didn't find my audience my audience found

me I feel like the the reason for that is because I've I've just been genuine I guess like I've been myself and I i' it's just me and my best friends who have have been playing Minecraft with for 10 years that are playing Minecraft on YouTube wow that's you know what a surprise um I think that people really connect to that and and relate to that I think that people criticized me for a long time I still get it I get a lot less now than I used to for like parasocial relationships or for uh

you know being like you know you're you're treating your fans like they're your friends or something um which is kind of what that is and in my mind it's like no I'm I'm just I'm treating my fans like they're not numbers like they are people they are people that are behind behind that screen behind that number there is a person that has a life that has you know that has goals and aspirations and has things that every word you say impacts them and I I looked at it in my mind I also had experience kind

of with with being like a you know Stan or being being like a massive fan um uh for you know when I was a kid of like like sports like I was like I had sports jerseys and I was like the biggest fan of you know the Oklahoma Sooners and like their quarterback I had like posters of him on my wall and so it's was like uh people which quarterback just out of curiosity Baker Mayfield BF course I had there people before then have you met him what have you met him I have not met

Baker Mayfield would love to Super interesting but I I did go to one of the first things I did after my face R was I went to they invited me to the Oklahoma soon I met a bunch of the team the current team and went on and and did some stuff there and went to a game but it's an interesting point on the Paras social relationship and I actually I wanted to ask you about that because you do get a lot of criticism around I think in general you know when you're at your size and

scale um but also because of how much you've evolved publicly like you grew up kind of over the past couple years yeah under somewhat of a not even a microscope like under this massive light of people looking at you one thing that as fans of this space and as being impressed with your branding Colin and I bought this which is your USB stick wow okay so we bought this after your face reveal yeah just super curious about it and on the notion of like parasocial relationship on this is like photos of you as a kid

it's like more in a more intimate look into clay I would say yeah tell me about tell me about this because I was very intrigued by this I think this had mixed reviews of like yeah there's a lot of criticism behind saying like that's so creepy he's putting like pictures like so on that there's there's more than just pictures but um essentially like we were coming with the idea of doing a USB stick and I was like well what if we put something on it and I was like what do we put on the USB

stick to make it you know make it even more meaningful um and what what is something I would put on there that I wouldn't just want to like tweet out or put somewhere else that I would only want my biggest fans to you know share on their owner if they get shared then whatever um and I thought of a bunch of stuff I thought of like I thought there's some exper like uh there's some parts of like my book that I one of the books I was talking about there I saw that on there um

there's like yeah there's pictures me as a kid there's like little there's emails from my like School teachers when I was a kid and it and I I think to me it was just like this is a cool thing and I'm I'm I'm very interested in like I'd be interested in seeing your baby pictures and like whatever and I my pictures what people were probably uncomfortable with too is like the format of it the fact that it was physical because it's really just like a patreon like you're giving like gated access to something behind a

pay wall right like I'm sure there are I wasn't selling my baby that was they like selling his I do think that's a little that that if I was selling my baby pictures hey guys just buy my baby pictures that is a little weird which guess technically I am but in real it was just like hey I want to I want to I want to put my kind of childhood and my my my Me growing up on a USB stick and So that obviously includes here's how I see it because like the way I see

it is you were talking about Spider-Man earlier in the interview this is like do you want to know the origin story of Peter Parker yeah right you you want to know some lore about a character that you love and so I think it's like it's all new right all of this is new to have characters like you grow on the Internet is to the size and scale I mean and we we didn't like and this is the thing as well is like we didn't increase the price because that anything it was the same price as

it would have been without anything on it was just like I just wanted to make it slightly more than just hey a USB stick with a smile on it like I was like hey how can I and your core fans probably cherish this they love it this thing is like cherished by and I understand what you're saying cuz I grew up like massive fan of like emo bands you know emo and pop punk bands and like I still have you know guitar picks that they would some bands would throw out right and I would hold

it and be like oh I caught it you know so like that type of stuff for me I think that's like meaningful for you as a kid whatever you connect with you know if you're a fan of something like this type of stuff is Meaningful um so yeah I I thought it was really interesting so when we talk about like you showing up in physical spaces like I can't help but think about you ing as a musician so music is obviously now it has been a part of your brand but it feels like in this

moment you're putting the mask back on You released a music video at the same time for your new song it feels like there's a little bit of momentum around music right now and there's actually a history of faceless musicians you brought up marshmallow Daft Punk gorillas right like there's a history of this and now that I'm like listening to the music I'm looking at you I'm seeing the brand I'm kind of like this looks and feels like something I've seen before right just with a lot more fandom around it before you even go on tour

you do it different or better right one the other I mean yeah I I I love music and I I I at this point now I guess I've been dabbling in music for three years yeah um I I I went into music because of the storytelling aspect it never was you know I never was like oh I have an Angelic Voice or you know whatever um it was very much like I had never even Sayang and I I but I had a story I wanted to tell and I I thought it was interesting that uh

I didn't feel like I had a medium to tell it on like I I I wanted to tell a story it was about um you know one of my ex-girlfriends and regardless of what the story was I was like that feels weird to like talk about on a live stream it feels weird to like put out on a tweet almost feels like you're like targeting them or or you're doing something along those lines and so it just I didn't I didn't feel like I really had a way to express certain like feelings or emotions I

had whether it be about my family or about you loved ones or about experiences that just feel awkward almost in in other mediums and so I didn't know that whenever I reached out to Parker who I made my first song with um I reached out because I I had I had a story I wanted to tell and I was like Hey I've never done music I think it'd be fun to try um would you able to take this story and help me make it into a song he was like yeah and then we did it

and that it really once it was done and I put it out there it made me realize how much of an outlet it was I was like wow it feels great to be able to tell that story have it not feel weird how have it feel you know or and and also be able to tell it in a unique way and it was it was fun I mean I was able to I was you know crafting this big story and like you I'm good at I can write a book but then it's like condense it

condense it and condense it and it very much related me to like video editing and stuff like I do the same thing when I'm video editing you take a massive like you VOD and then you cut it down and cut it down you have to find out what's the retention bits you cut it down and that's like building a song in my experience so far has been the same I guess uh in that it's it's a very similar space in of condensing a story and and still being able to tell it in a meaningful way

um and so I I I love I love that I did my first three songs um they each were very different from each other in terms of like the the process behind them one was much more like industry one was much more on my own and one was much more like just an intro with uh you know with a feature and whatever um to be able to decide and be like hey I actually I feel like I enjoy this enough to take this seriously and almost take the same approach to what I did with YouTube

where I was like hey if I'm going to treat this like a job I have to actually treat it like a job and treat it seriously because the music industry is a very serious industry and making music is not you know you can't just go and be like oh hey I have you know 10 million followers and therefore I I'm I'm going to you know make music and people will listen to it um and so I I wanted to I primarily wanted to tell those stories and and then now obviously uh putting out more I

do I do plan on stepping more into it um I I just actually uh it's just now pretty much public this is the first time I guess I'm I'm saying it specifically um but I signed a record deal with Republic records damn um last year actually it's been a long time now um and preface reveal or no it was it was after the face it was in it was in the talks during during that whole ER during the faville we were in we were in discussions for a long time um but then uh and and

and really I was like went to them was kind of like hey I I want to take music seriously I want to I want to do things with resources behind me and um but I actually do want to do it right so I want to learn I want I want to learn how to make music and how to do it right and how to um you know tell my stories and so I spent a long time you know it's been it's been two years between um my last song in the song I just put out

um and uh during those two years in the same way that during those you know six months I was studying YouTube I was I was looking into music and and how it works and how the how how the industry works and and figuring out how can I how can I actually put the stories out there I want to put out there in a way that people will relate to people will enjoy and make them good and make good legit music that you can listen to and be like hey this is I I really enjoy this

I'm not saying my old stuff was not you good or legit but I think it's it's a lot less good and legit than a lot of the stuff that I'm I'm working on now um and so I'm I'm yeah I'm stepping in more into the music world and the mask actually has nothing to do with that but I do think that it's it's cool that it has it's you know faceless is more normal yeah it's more normal in music it's super interesting so you're for real like with music cuz like I I feel like a

lot of creators we see you grow a massive audience M music's a pretty viable option because if you have a song that hits it's like or like tour like those are really good businesses and even like diss tracks could get millions but seriously like if you boil it down to like dis tracks which are some of the like musically some of the worst music yeah right but they're like culturally relevant to a group of people can find millions of streams right and so I think people have that thought same thing of like well you can

just do it because you're popular yeah I mean I never I never really had that thought I guess um like again my my first I I was L scrolling Tik Tok and I saw him I saw like a Tik Tok where he someone commented on his Tik Tok and he said like I'm turning like comment down below I'm turning your comments into songs and then he made like a banger song and I was like what this guy is like awesome how did he do that and I was like can you do that with me that'd

be sick um and then obviously enjoyed the process but I I didn't never put out any music videos I didn't up until this point now um you know my first songs I did almost no promotion for them I never promoted them probably most people on my main Channel didn't even know I made them other than maybe through memes or for people talking about them um organically like not through me um I didn't like try and throw it in people's faces and be like guys I'm making music you know whatever um I really just was like

hey this is kind of if you if you want to check this out you can um I maybe I don't even know if I probably mentioned it in a live stream or something um and just you know put it out there and with the stories I wanted to tell until I found out that I was like hey I actually feel like I can take this seriously and then now yeah I I want to step in I want to I want to learn obviously I still have a long way to go I still I still there's

still you know upwards trajectory just like with you know YouTube um in terms of like learning and and being better at it um so you just have to do it in public which is you know which is an interesting thing to but that's why that's why I did take a lot of time as well to do some of it in private to make sure hey he you know if I'm I I don't want to start be like hey I you know even even just right when I signed the record deal as well just be like

instantly like hey no I you know hey I'm I'm going to put what you're going to see you're going to see all the crap before we get to the goal there whatever um so I wanted to make sure I at least had had some really really good quality high quality stories to tell because that that is my most important thing and then also work with some awesome professional producers and stuff that can that can make the sound really awesome um and then also take singing lessons and stuff to make sure that um you know I

and learn how to sing and and better you know use my vocal skills which actually funny enough is as a faceless Creator one of the reasons I blew up in the first place not because of my singing but my voice like I always got I always had people say you have an interesting voice I like how your voice sounds you know in videos and stuff and so um it's it's not obviously that's not necessarily for singing it doesn't mean I'm a good singer but um what are your musical Inspirations like where because like I have

a sense of where I think they are but I'm curious where they're actually from I I think I I find it's I've gotten asked that before and my answer is always like well I relate so much more to like the story behind the music than the music itself which is I think why I have the the Avenue where I'm like I want to tell this story um so like Alec Benjamin who I did my my third song with he is such a forward storyteller like you listen to a song you cannot miss the story if

if you listen to one of his one of his like songs and his music you cannot miss the story there and the only the only reason uh we ended up collabing him in the first place is because I was like singing a song of his on a Discord podcast of mine or something um one day and um and he saw it and reached out was like Hey man and then we talked and I talked about music and how you know what I was doing with it and we made a song but I I get inspired

by a lot of a lot of um uh songs that have really powerful like storytelling a funny example is like Eminem like I I actually I'm I I I feel like I don't I there's a lot of his music that I don't like and I don't like a lot of um his things but there was like multiple songs I've heard of his when I was like like a kid on the bus or whatever where I was like wow that's like he did a song called headlights um that was about his mom I remember I cried

when I was in a fight with my mom put that song on and was like crying and like it's it's more of like I don't think you know he's an amazing singer or he's you know whatever but the story that he put into it and the heart the heart you can at least tell there's heart behind the stuff and so I feel like with my music in terms of inspiration I really just want to be able to encapsulate the stories CU I have so many stories to tell and so many things that I I want

so much to put out into the world and I've done it through Minecraft content I've done it through you know streams and stuff but it's touching a whole different group of people there's people that don't you know that don't watch Minecraft or that don't you know watch trip streams and having a whole different group of people to kind of spread that same message to in a different memorable way where you can listen to a song and be like wow you know I can tell there's heart behind this I can relate to the story yeah and

so even though like as an example talking about how I look at my old stuff and go oh that's kind of CR itk you know for my my singing ability um or even like lyrically I think I could have told the story better this and that way but I love the fact that it was just me like I wrote almost all the lyrics and I sat there and was like What story do I want to tell and I I told it and so being able to keep that aspect while still learning and growing to me

is is really important what's the story of your most recent song like what story are you telling with it so uh my most recent song is called until end up dead um and uh the the whole concept of the song uh the actual phrase in an up dead was actually just from a conversation um when I got into the room on the day that I was writing uh in an up dead and uh I was talking about a good friend of mine um a content creator technoblade who uh was also a Minecraft Youtuber he did

a lot of this the same stuff as me um we uh we interacted obviously a lot he was on the dream SMP um and uh he was the same age as me and he had yeah family and everything and and uh he suddenly passed away from cancer obviously his dad posted a video on his YouTube channel that um I'm sure a lot of people have seen and was very heartbreaking and um I had talked to his dad before then and and knew the video was coming and and uh was actually uh the person to break

the news to a lot of people I broke the news to JP about it happening um because he reached out to me his dad reached out to me through his through Tech blad's account um and said hey here's my phone number and and we connected through that and um uh and then also about uh in a similar situation when I was a kid um I guess the situation is similar but the the sentiment I got from it was similar um uh essentially a good friend of mine his mom randomly passed and he was the same

age as me and everything and I remember being at her funeral and crying kind of selfishly because I was picturing my mom yeah more so than because his mom was gone um and I going back to technoblade um I was like it made me realize like life is so short and he was just like me he was the exact same age as me and had his life was so similar to mine I was like that could have been me that that easily could have been me I don't think most people even probably realize this piecing

it together but like he got his diagnosis according to what I put together from like techno dad and his dad um knew he he was dying in like 6 months and then posted funny YouTube videos about the fact that he was dying making you getting giving you know us hope and stuff as well and I just never even even knowing he had cancer I was just like oh yeah he's fine he's going to be I I remember I remember vividly him posst a video being like oh he's he's gonna be fine he's the same age

as me same he's strong he's gonna you know he's gonna push through he's gonna do chemo and be fine and then just being you know completely blindsided by the fact that holy he he was dying and um and and he knew it and he still was positive and and encouraging people to be happy and trying to spread Joy I feel like that really uh I guess inspired me and and and made me you know realize that I I need to be appreciative of you know the people and the things I care most about around me

my family and my friends and everything you know until I end up dead and um so telling that story through this song it was very much a story of you know I some of the lyrics being like I saw me when I looked at you and I and uh I look in the mirror to make sure I'm still here yeah um because uh I really did and it was like this like kind of almost like uh that's the word I'm looking for um this vulnerable moment of like realizing that you aren't invincible and thatal you

you you're not yeah mortality that's oh my god um and then uh obviously uh the the way I kind of hand handling those emotions and realizing that he would want you to be positive he would want you to live your life and to the full and not and not you know Harper on the fact of the of the the things that you wish you had said or the things that you wish you had done or um and so being able to kind of take those like very conversational things that I just said even in this

conversation and a lot of those are lyrics and those are things that I I kind of put into the song and and in the meaning behind it and making it a very like happy upbeat song that is sad because it's about that's beautiful man meaningful that's really beautiful and I I love that you did a fun raiser connected to the music video um yes that's to the saroma foundation which is a a foundation that um helps fight against bone cancer which is the cancer that he yeah he had you never know how long you have

left that's really beautiful man I love that um it's a great story I'm uh I'm I'm curious uh as you grow with music um you know that music video also has you without the mask on in there like is the thought as you continue to grow like are you very comfortable with continuing to grow Fame and are you are you comfortable continuing to grow that as clay or as dream um you know what does that feel like for you because you you did take down some of your IRL content um and I think the world

probably is wondering like I would assume the biggest question that the world is wondering is like do you regret the face reveal now that you're putting the mask back on um and as you grow like music has the opportunity to blow you up even further um yeah I I definitely don't regret the face reveal I think to me it's like I in order to live my life I feel like I I had to do the face reveal and I was in this constant state of like paranoia and like it my life is way better now

that I'm able to um like actually live my life and do what I want and um and so I I don't regret the face reveal whatsoever um but uh but obviously I think that if given the fact that like let's say I had this mask and we could go back like I maybe do things slightly differently but it's also hard to say that cuz create a chain events where things go differently after that with like almost everything um and so I'm I'm pretty comfortable and I think with with music it's like I I want to

tell these stories and in my mind it's like yeah okay if if it involves me you know being more famous in order to impact as many people as I possibly can while I'm here on Earth and and living my life then please please I I want everyone that possibly can to hear my stories and to um be impacted by them whether whatever emotion they feel I want them to feel something and I feel like that's um if that comes at the price of more people let's say being slightly more annoying going into Walmart or something

then it's like okay or can imagine that's really annoying right like not like annoying but like you have to think about it it's not like you can go to a coffee shop right it's annoying it's annoying in the way that like I'll get up and be like I want to go to 7-Eleven to get like a drink and I'll be like I have to get like actually dressed I can't just go out and like have have security with you too no no I almost never I mean I obviously I have security if I'm going to

like a big EV or something like that yeah yeah um but no yeah I mean I I get recognized a lot when I walk around like just just in general in public um but I've never had anything like bad or weird or anything with people in public people are always respectful and stuff so far what about being swatted have you ever been swatted yeah so I have been swatted before um and I I i' and like a members of my family have been swatted most my friends have been swed and um yeah it's definitely not

a fun experience that's such a terrible part of Internet Fame it's one that most people just don't I feel like a lot of people probably even watching this don't even understand like what that is or is swed like swatted is when being swatted is when somebody it's called swatted because the SWAT team so someone will call into the police like a fake police threat on at a certain address or a certain place where you are and be like at this address I'm holding a hostage right now and I'm going to shoot them in 10 minutes

or whatever it is I have a bomb and so D streamer is live yeah it doesn't even necess have to be while streamer is live like I've been swatted when I'm not live and and and just dude that's so dangerous I mean people have people have died right from people di pets have been killed it's not comparable but horrible it's horrible man it's something that shouldn't be the case like as an example you know I got a I said it in my face whe video but I got like a text from I got a call

and it was from an unknown number and then I got a text and it said like hey this is the FBI we need to talk to you and I was like FBI very funny then I was like this is a new number I only got this a couple months ago like I don't know who has this how how is somebody like calling me so I called my local police department I was like hey uh I got a text from the FBI and they're like no it's not the FBI and I was like well can you

make sure because I I have a reason why it could be the FBI and they're like no no you're good it's not the FBI and I was like well can I like talk to someone like higher that way just just to like make a 100% sure they're like okay yeah sure I I'll uh I'll check with like the sergeant or whatever and they're like they're like uh one second oh actually the Sergeant's on Route somewhere right now wait the Sergeant's on route to your house wait maybe it is the FBI and I was like oh

okay all right thank you very much hung up and I called them and they're like yeah this is the FBI you have like a threat on your life right now we don't we don't think that going have to take you into like uh protection yet but be on standby like in case we do if you want us to we can we don't think we think it's we think it's just internet trolls and stuff um but it could be because it people people you put it out with intent and it was someone on there like one

of their watch lists or something and they were like they put it out oh God and so my reaction to that was was very different than my mom's reaction to that my reaction was of course this this stupid I was like no you know you know it's fine I want to go I don't want to go into protection right now this is yeah it's Pro it probably is just someone you know being a-hole or you know whatever my mom's reaction was like oh my God this that's like that's so scary this is this is horrible

this is you this is this is crazy do you want to come to our you know whatever um and so I think that those are kind of two different Reactions where mine is a very like it's more like it's a it's a strange outcome of like getting better at the craft of being a Storyteller and a creative person on the internet comes with this other thing right like the outcome of that is Fame uh you know potential danger like that it's just interesting that that is this is such a terrible way to look at things

and it's I mentioned this in my face ra video um one of the things I mentioned I I feel like I've and probably most YouTubers and most people in my position um anyone with with like Fame has kind of come to just accept the fact that that's a part of it where it's like it's almost like it it doesn't bother me as much as you would think it would because of the fact that you're like yeah well you got swatt it again or whatever like whereas someone else would be like the end of their life

if this thing happened because it's this crazy thing that's crazy though it comes with the territory when it shouldn't it shouldn't it shouldn't that shouldn't come with territory man that's wild that can be a byproduct of just wanting to do good work that you think is valuable and interesting yeah to people yeah yeah that's crazy so did that have is any of that why you deleted some of the other IRL content like the face reveal videoos not there Antarctica Vlog oh no not at all I think that to me it was like again I was

when I was going back to the mask it's like I I wanted a reason really to bring back this uh this this thing that I thought was so important to me as dream and I think that again it it created a massive splashing that it was everywhere it was you know there's probably over a billion views on like Twitter and Instagram and Tik Tok and about people being like dream deleted whatever and I I remember sitting there and I was like do I want to um and I privated everything so everything's everything's not deleted except

for on the platforms where you can't and you have to delete I'm like uh do I delete it's like the face reveal tweet and it had like a million likes or something and I was like kind of got to if you're doing Del they're still there for memy sake and stuff and um you know who knows way down the line or something but for now it's like I I really wanted to I just really wanted to slidify like no I'm being serious I want I want this to be I'm fine with being you know Clay

and dream but I want to know that when I'm dream I'm dream anyone can be dream anyone can you be whatever but clay you know kind of man behind the mask you know whatever um that's fine but I want the separation of like when Spider-Man Spider-Man he's Spider-Man he's not he's not Peter Parker you know in that way not really back to superheroes again but it's the same thing I wanted to bring that back back and so I think it will be I'm I'm going be fine with you know making appearances and and you know

not not wearing a mask everywhere um eventually um but uh but for now I was like I really want to I want really want to solidify this and make sure that it's known it's like no this is it doesn't matter this is this is I can I can you know sure you said 40 million views or whatever doesn't matter anyone can be behind it I can delete that and it's still my who I am doesn't change doesn't change the fact that I am I am who I am and I've done what I've done and so

I think I think that's it's just a way to solidify it interesting is uh is like personal life complicated with this amount of Fame and this amount of notoriety yes 100% like dating friendships all that yes started it is it is so impossible I don't know I got asked a question on a panel at VidCon yesterday and it was a along those lines it was like uh you know how do you separate your personal and your work Clash I was like I have please someone up here one of you other creators do you have an

answer for that I have no idea yeah um it's it's so hard because uh when when you're in the Limelight then anyone around you is in the Limelight when you're when you're including your friends and people you know you can get you can criticize someone for uh you know for something that they're friend did and be like oh whatever and so I think that um I I don't I don't know I don't know the answer I I always like that's one of the questions I like to ask creators about and talk about and you get

into it how do you how do you guys you manage like um I remember talking to like Anthony Pia about it um and he gave some good advice on it as well yeah um I feel like that's a big struggle no matter no matter what for for YouTubers but also for um just any anybody who has any kind of like Fame yeah for sure man I'm sure that's super complex I think for you specifically people like because a a sense of mystery is almost a part of your brand right people want to know more about

you yeah but I I think it happens no matter what like I there's people being like well if you if you want to stop the you know like doxing and harassment then just reveal your face and it's like well obviously that doesn't stop it that's stop it it might amplify it because you're you're you're more interested or something but it doesn't stop it happens to everyone it's just it just makes it more of like a there's there's like slightly more of a reason CU they're like I can I want to find out what he looks

like or whatever so so at this point now when you look out the next two to three years do you know what success looks like for you both like personally and as dream yeah I mean I feel like I've always had the view that like success is defined by your brain obviously so it's like there's no there's no like oh you made money therefore you're successful or you know you you did have this job therefore you're successful but but I think success to me is always just being happy with what I'm putting out while also

contributing like an upward positive thing to the world in terms of like uh you know like uh social media and and like actually actually talking about like numbers and things like that I feel like it's such a changing space that you know one one number is Meaningful one day and meaningless the next day one video is amazing one day and kind of crappy video the next day and so it's really hard to look even you know six months in the future and say like oh this is I think this is Success if I'm doing this

or I have this many subscribers or you know whatever and so to me I feel like it kind of has to be maybe that's why I have a healthy relationship with numbers I feel like I I have to separate it and go no no no matter what the numbers are like you can use that as a guide to try and you want obviously you want to increase numbers so on and so forth but you can you just use that as a guide for doing what you love and and doing what you can to like improve

the world I guess and so yeah talk us through this new mask oh yeah this seems really cool that's dream there's a little bit of a blind spot first we'll talk about that first right in the middle there I'm surprised that didn't happen earlier man yeah we wantan to you want to break for a towel yeah it's it's actually not that big of a deal all right so thanks Jesse yeah yeah it's all good well now uh this goes down in Colin and Samir show history there's never been a spill the first at least I

have an excuse for it I feel a little worse okay so yeah talk us through talk us through this mask yeah so this mask was made by obviously a professional mask company that like we said earlier made the mask for a bunch of different places it's actually it's it's pretty sick I mean I can see through it pretty well except for in a couple places um I actually can't see through the mouth or the eyes so this cup was kind of like right there on the bottom I'm looking forward and I don't see the cup

um can I try it on yeah of course cool it's actually a laser uh uh like fit to my head and my yeah you have a big head I have a big head I I got a really small head wow there's two dreams there's another one right is another mask you want to put it on you want to put I'm interested of course where is it it's it's right behind us over there in that back um this is much more comfortable and easier to see than I anticipated and I would imagine it's even more comfortable

for me because it is fitted to my school and so like the pads go right up against my face and it's right everything fits really perfectly there's something to it too that you almost feel like a sense of safety in it I don't know if you feel that way but right now I feel like no I I I agree I think it's it's it is really cool like I one thing that I've noticed is like it's this is this is kind of funny but also kind of bad like there go three dreams three in the

podcast um is this is like I'm doing a podcast with myself now yeah um I you can like look anywhere so if like you're looking looks like you're looking at me you can like look I'm looking at the monitor right now like way over there I'm looking at the monitor too so I've noticed that in public sometimes if I see somebody and I'm like usually if I GL like what is that guy wearing I might like look oh God I don't want to stare I can just like stare and be like what is that guy

wearing whatever your superow it feels like you can see more of the world like you see the world and the world doesn't necessarily is isn't able to like see you which is so cool how that even works I don't even understand it that's why I with the whole science thing I how does that work how how do I how can I see and I definitely can't tell how close I am to the mic right now there there's some blind spots I see it for sure there's definitely like kind of M middle here it can get

and also it depends on like the lighting some lighting is better and worse and um and it also depends on like like if I'm sweating a lot or something like it'll like clog up the pores in it and so it makes it even like harder to see yeah um yeah I'm having like a lot of stuff like it's still not even done like I'm having a lot of attachments made for it obviously like I already had like a I didn't brand but I have a straw attachment that like on that's funny I can drink I

I want like an umbrella one a mic one and a bunch of other stuff and also even with the hood it's like these are magnets and so uh there's it's magnetized to it so I can like shake my head and not have come off um which is I think pretty cool this is awesome maybe one day it'll be like when they release a new iPhone and it's like a newk yeah that's funny so do you envision Yourself by the way like going on tour like I'm putting this back on this is more comfortable uh like

can we see you on tour in the next year or two I think that you should wait and see and find out oh dream how dare you how dare you leave us on a cliffhanger like that well if you do go on tour and and you stop here we'd love to come um you're genuine fans of your music um yeah we were we were playing it loud today yeah this this conversation for me I can't wait for you to hear my new stuff dude I can't wait um this conversation for me has been like so

revealing um of like who you are like who you actually are I've had so many questions and again I think you've been like you know a mysterious part of of YouTube for me um but this has been an awesome conversation man like I really appreciate it's been awesome for me as well I feel like there's a it's it's nice to have a chance to just kind of sit here and under almost no constraints just be like hey let's let's just talk yeah I I appreciate you being so vulnerable too and like just being open and

answering all of our questions like it's awesome man thanks for make me feel comfortable yeah thanks dude cool [Music]