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e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e sound check 1 two 3 e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e f okay all right good morning this joint hearing of the subcommittee on cyber security information technology and government Innovation and the subcomittee on National Security the border and Foreign Affairs will come to order good morning and welcome everyone without objection the chair May declare recess at any time and I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement

right now good morning and welcome to today's historic hearing which I'm co-chairing with Mr growman who subcomittee held an important hearing on this topic last year I want to thank my colleagues on the oversight committee including Mr burett Mr burles Miss Luna Mr Mo moscowitz Mr Garcia for their Relentless drive to get ansers on uaps they've been steadfast in demanding transparency on the sightings reported by a milit Ary pilots and armed forces their commitment to digging for the truth is exactly what this country needs to cut through the secrecy surrounding this issue and many high-ranking

individuals in the military and intelligence communities believe uaps demand greater attention and thus the purpose for this hearing today former National Security adviser HR McMaster said on Bill Mars's program that quote there are phenomena that have been witnessed by multiple people that are just inexplicable by the science available to US army colonel Carl Nell a member of the federal government UAP task force said at a conference this past May that non-human intelligence exists non-human intelligence has been interacting with Humanity this interaction is not new and it's been ongoing and there are unelected people in the

government that are aware of that but uaps remain a controversial topic I'm not going to name names but there are certain individuals who didn't want this hearing to happen because they feared what might be disclosed but we stood firm no amount of outside pressure would ever keep me from pursuing a subject to ground come hell or high water on that score I want to thank our Witnesses for being here we have before us a panel of individuals accomplished in the military in civilian government in science and in journalism some of the testimony you will hear

them deliver today does not reflect well on influential individuals and agencies within the US federal government and perhaps some of our contractors it's never easy to present such information publicly so I appreciate your our Witnesses voluntarily agreeing to being here today this hearing is attended to help Congress and the American people to learn the extent of the programs and activities our government has engaged in with respect to uaps and what knowledge it has yielded this includes of course any knowledge of extraterrestrial life or technology of non-human origin if government funded research on uaps has not

yielded any useful knowledge we also need to know those facts taxpayers deserve to know how much has it been invested how much has been spent they shouldn't be kept in the dark to spare the Pentagon a little bit of embarrassment the reality is despite their enormous taxpayer funded budgets the transparency of the defense department and the intelligence Community have long been abysmal the Pentagon has failed six consecutive audits in fact it's never actually passed one adding to this is a runaway over classification of documents and materials a reluctance to declassify materials when appropriate and at

times an outright refusal to share critical information with Congress in short it's not a track record that instills trust so Congress has tried in recent years to lift the veil and find out if information about uaps is being withheld not only from the American public but also from their elected representatives in Congress part of the transparency effort was legislation created in the Pentagon the all domain anomaly resolution office or Arrow but the new office is struggling to get its footing a recent statue orally required report from Arrow intended to illuminate the government's historic assessment of

uaps was heavily criticized by those seeking UAP transparency the report has stoked suspicions arrow is unable or perhaps unwilling to bring forward the truth about the government's activities concerning uaps I'm disturbed that Arrow itself lacks transparency even its budget is kept from the public so there is no there there then why are we spending money on it and by how much why the secrecy if it's really no big deal and there's nothing there why hide it from the American people because I'm not a mathematician but I can tell you that doesn't add up I expect

some of our witnesses to share their views on that Arrow report we will also hear from the witnesses today allegations of UAP related misinformation and disinformation by government officials of which they are personally aware and directly experienced and we will hear testimony today concerning recent Revelations about a purportedly secret UAP program whose existence and findings may have been improperly withheld from Congress um but before we get to the witnesses we're going to have a few more opening statements from our colleagues and one thing I wanted to add uh at the end of my closing statement

is there is a document that will be entered into the Congressional Record today uh Mr Tim burchett from Tennessee has this document and we just distribut it to every member up here on the dis of this document but this is going to be uh the original document from the Pentagon about Immaculate constellation that Michael shellenberger delivered to Congress today so thank you Mr shellenberger for this information we are all reading it in real time now and Mr burett will enter it into the record but 12 pages about this unacknowledged special access program that your government

says does not exist so uh with that I would uh acknowledge uh my colleagues Mr Garcia uh I want to say first of all to Mr Connelly who cannot be here today the ranking member on my subcommittee on cyber security I want to say that I was great greatly saddened to hear about the recent news of Mr connell's cancer diagnosis and I want to convey to him and to all of our colleagues we wish our very best to you and a full and speedy recovery and with that I would uh acknowledge Mr Garcia for five

minutes thank you thank you very much um chairwoman I want to thank the chairwoman and uh and the chairman um both for their continued support and and really um treating this uh this discussion and these hearings in a way that's bipartisan I think one thing that's very important for all of us that are interested in uh the conversation around uaps is that this is an area that both Republicans and Democrats where we may disagree in a lot of other spaces this is an area where bipartisanship is really important and in fact I would add it's

critical that we all continue to work together um in a way that that moves forward with the truth and uh and important disclosure so we're here to have a bipartisan and serious conversation um I believe about our national security we should always ground these conversations in facts evidence and the data in front of us I want to note that we have um our Witnesses here I want to thank you all for being here and note that also we amongst you you have folks have also served us um in our military and um I know that

for for many of you this has been a difficult process but I'm very grateful to have you with us today and thank you for joining us I also want to note that today's hearing Builds on a a quite I think also historic public hearing that we had um many months ago that um Mr grman and others helped lead uh in this very same hearing room where I believe we began a really important public conversation about uaps and so I want to thank him for that and I especially want to thank again chairwoman ma for her

continued advocacy on this topic I also want to start to St with some facts we know that there are objects or phenomena observed in our airspace as your witnesses will testify and also possibly in our oceans uh in many cases we don't know what they are and this is of course why we're discussing uaps now the all demain anomaly resolution office Arrow has reported hundreds of uaps that remain quote uncharacterized and unattributed and which quote appear to have demonstrated unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities and require further analysis this is our own um Arrow office

now we shouldn't prejudge what they might be I'm certainly not going to we need evidence but we are detecting things and we know that we don't understand them and this is worth investigating now the American people have legitimate questions and I believe it's critical that Congress should help address them this is about the truth and Science and facts now transparency and faith in our institutions is vital in a good democracy now I'm proud to say this hearing will build on that important bipartisan work and I want to thank everyone being involved including members of our

committee now in our last Hearing in July we heard testimony that a significant number of Pilots of major airlines have witness uaps as well but have no real confidential way of reporting them to the government we heard that commercial pilots who encounter uaps may be hesitant to speak openly due to stigma or fear of retaliation we also know that Arrow has reported that and I want to quote that most reports still reflect a bias toward restricted military airspace a result of reporting from military personnel and sensors present in such areas and so the lack of

ability for civilian Pilots raises real safety concerns and limits our ability to understand uaps this is a particular piece of this conversation that I am very interested in now our last hearing inspired us to introduce the safe air space for Americans act joined by chairman grawin chairwoman mace and a bipartisan group of co-sponsors I see some of our leaders from uh from safe airspace for Americans act here and that would create a a safe reporting for UAP process which we want to continue to do now members of both parties and Senior officials in multiple administrations

have now taken an interest in this issue uh mainstream media in many cases are beginning to take more of an interest in this issue and we should all be proud to carry that work and build confidence for the American people I believe we can always be more transparent to me this hearing and others are simply about the truth and getting to the facts of what these uaps actually are it's very important that we show that Democrats and Republicans in Congress can work together to cut through misinformation and look for a serious and thoughtful way to

have the discussion in public many of us have also called for additional public hearings to discuss uaps this should be a topic that continues on throughout the Congress so that we can gather more information data and work with the relevant agencies to gather more information finally just want to add that those that are here on this Das many of us have participated also in classified uh briefings as well and where we have also gained a lot of important I think and interesting information at least I personally have and so with that information we want to

continue today's hearing and I think all of our Witnesses for being here and with that I'd like to yield back thank you Mr Garcia and i' now like to recognize Mr growman for five minute introduction thank you uh good morning i' like to thank our Witnesses for being here one more time this is a a topic I've been interested in since 8th grade like to thank Miss mace for working me on this topic and for making this a joint subcommittee hearing last year the subcommittee on National Security the board and Foreign Affairs here held an

historic hearing to understand the potential National Security risk of unidentified anomalous phenomena or uaps we heard from former Navy Commander David fraver who shared firsthand experience with the UAP engaged while on duty in the Pacific we learned from David Gres a former member of the intelligence Community revealed the supposed existence of secret government programs hidden from congressional over site additionally formally additionally former military pilot Ryan Graves informed us of The Limited ways in which the military and commercial pilots can report UAP sightings since that last hearings I've LED several briefings with government agencies to deepen

my understanding with these issues first the Department of Defense inspector General's office informed us that the Department of Defense does not have a streamlined process for service members to report UAP activity since then the Joint Chiefs have implemented stand ards for UAP reporting across the services the intelligence Community Inspector General informed us that whistleblowers often fear retaliation for reporting mismanagement of highly sensitive government projects or information finally AO has expressed to the committee that like any other federal government agency it's faed challenges in its establishment specifically in hiring staff to manage UAP historical records and

coordinating with other federal agencies well these agencies have been helpful to us in understanding the challenges that come from collecting UAP data none of them have been able to substantiate the claims made at this hearing last year by David grush despite our our committee members endlessly questioning these agencies inside and outside of a skiff I hope our Witnesses today will be able to provide evidence and content that is worthwhile to our Pursuits of eliminating government waste and increasing transparency to help alleviate some of the roadblocks I'm supportive of measures that were included in last year's

def National Defense authorization act to increase transparency and improve recordkeeping measures when it comes to uaps but I believe there's still more work to go I co-led the safe airspace for Americans act with ran member Gara which required which requires the Federal Aviation Administration to develop procedures to collect UAP data from civilian aviators I look forward to looking members of working with members of Congress to see that this legislation other UAP legislation uh crosses the Finish Line I'm deeply alarmed by the reporting of massive of the massive drone drone swarm that flew over Langley Air

Force Base in Virginia last December Langley is the home of the first Fighter Wing which maintains half of the f-22s in in the US Air Force inventory reports of this incident indicate these drones were roughly 20 ft long flying more than 100 miles an hour hour and an altitude of over 3,000 ft yet the origin of these drones and their operators remains a mystery this incident and other sightings near sensitive military installations highlights the complexity of the UAP challenge facing our intelligence defense and Homeland Security committees whether these phenomena are the result of foreign advoc

adversaries developing Advanced Technologies or something else entirely we must take them seriously investig them thoroughly and assess their implications on National Defense the repeated UAP sightings around sensitive military sites underscores the need for Innovative defensive strategies Beyond traditional measures they also highlight the urgent need for updated policies to address emerging threats as well as more effective inter agency cooperation and intelligence sharing however none of this is going to be possible without transparency for far too long un critical information about uaps has been either classified or ignored leaving the American public in ke Congressman without Clarity

needed to make informed decisions declassifying reports and fostering a more open dialogue about uaps will not only increase the public trust but also encourage collaboration between government the scientific community and our allies quite frankly there's been things that have been kept secret that is I think old enough that there is no reason it shouldn't be released regardless of any so-called you know private um information a transparent approach will allow us to share insights identify patterns and develop new strategic defenses as we continue to investigate these phenomena we must do so with a mindset of protecting

our country advancing scientific discovery and upholding the trust of the American people who right now I don't think have trust and it it's just obvious uh I don't have trust we cannot shy away from the unknown especially when the stakes are so high I look forward to discussing these matters with the witnesses today I'm hopeful we can learn from the testimony and come out of this hearing with action actionable ideas to advance UAP transparency actually the idea is is just to say in my mind go back 15 years and everything has to be released I'm

hopeful that we can learn from their testimony and come out of this hearing uh and with that a yeld back thank you I'll now recognize Mr moscowitz for a 5 minute introduction uh thank you uh chairwoman good morning everyone uh I first want to thank the chairs and ranking members for holding the hearing today on this topic uh and again having a second hearing I want to thank the witnesses uh for coming forward today to share your expertise on uaps and the need to build trust through transparency but but first I want to mention you

might be wondering why chairman comr has allowed me to be a ranking member today but it's really only because our dear friend uh Jerry Connelly is not here uh as uh chairwoman mace mentioned uh he was diagnosed with esophageal cancer and all of us on this committee know uh know Jerry and he's a fighter uh and we're praying for him and hoping for his speedy recovery so today's hearing marks this committee's second meeting dedicated to UAP transparency uh I was pleased as I know all of us are on the bipartisanship uh that existed in last

year's hearing and even though we can't talk about what happens in the classified settings the bipartisanship that has existed uh in in those settings with the questions members have asked last year's hearing was a great example of open dialogue about uaps and we must remain committed to sharing information with the American people uh and I think you see that commitment based on the people here and the commitment across the political Spectrum I personally have worked with multiple members of this committee uh but I want to particularly thank uh uh congressmen uh brette mace Luna and

Garcia uh for working on bipartisan pieces of legislation in recent years Congress has taken numerous bipartisan steps towards greater transparency in 2022 in the ndaa we created uh the all domain anomaly resolution office to investigate unidentified flying objects following Arrow along with OD and I release an unclassified report on UAP sightings of the 366 sightings included in the report 171 remain uncharacterized with some of these appearing to have demonstrated unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities um that's a nice way of saying we don't want to tell you what they are in March era revealed a

report on the historical record of US Government involvement with uaps which covered investigatory effort going back from 1945 to the present day earlier this year I joined joed Congressman brette to introduce the UAP transparency act which would require the declassification of all documents related to uaps with many other members of this Committee in fiscal year 2024 the NDA required the National Archives and Records Administration to establish the unidentified Anonymous phenomena records collection this collection will include digital copies of all unidentified UAP records that can be publicly disclosed this commitment is in transparency is vitally important

and unne and unnecessary over classification has led to uh a void of information which has allowed theories over the decades to Foster when the American people and members of Congress ask our reports of uaps credal credible we're met with stonewalling we're met with responses of I can't tell you and in fact we're met with people not wanting us to have hearings we're met with people not wanting us to ask you questions in fact many of us were told not to ask some of you certain questions on certain topics um in a time of heightened distrust

of our government uh institutions I believe more transparency is not only needed but is possible and obviously we can respect National Security limits but we also have to provide our constituents with the information and oversight that they have tasked us for as part of this government agencies must maintain open lines of communication with members of Congress and there are regular questions that Americans have what are uaps are they real are they ours how has this technology been developed how do they get funded right and now we've seen this has gone from a long time ago

where you could discredit people because it's some guy living in a Winnebago you're you're able to see people now these are pilots these are military these are folks with serious background this has changed the face of this because now we have video people have questions we know there are advanced technology programs almost 15 years ago one of those came out of Area 51 to go after Osama Bin Laden and the only reason we know about that is because one of those helicopters was downed Americans have questions about whistleblowers who have come forward to talk about

retribution um and so I want to thank everyone for being involved to get today on trying to get more transparency this has been by partisan by camerel uh and as we get into a new Administration the president head elect has talked about opportunities to declassify information on uaps and I hope he lives up uh to uh to that promise and with that I yield back okay thank you Mr moscowitz and I would now committee staff ask me to go ahead and I will do it uh to enter into the Congressional Record this 12-page document that

Michael shellenberger brought today that describes the immaculate constellation government program um so we will do that now uh every member up here has a copy of it uh the first section uh talks about the unacknowledged special Access program called Immaculate constellation and the second section about uh USG imagery intelligence and uh representative Luna just told me if I say Immaculate constellation I'll be on some list um maybe a fisa warrant so uh come at me bro I guess but uh without objection entered in the record uh all right so next we will introduce our Witnesses

for today's hearing uh thank you so much for being here our first witness is rear retired rear Admiral Tim gallet who retired from the US Navy and is now the chief executive officer at Ocean STL Consulting our second witness is Mr Lou Al alzando a former Department of Defense official and author of a recent bestseller book about uaps our third witness is Mr Michael shellenberger founder of the newsletter public and author of a recent journalistic piece about special access programs including one widely identified as Immaculate constellation I swear the staff wants me on a list

um okay and our last witness today is Mr Michael Gold a former NASA official who is also a member of the NASA UAP independent study team welcome everyone we are pleased to have you today pursuant to committee rule 9g the witnesses will please stand and raise your right hands this is where it gets real do you solemnly swear to affirm that the testimony that you are about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God let the record show that the witnesses all answered in the affirmative we

appreciate all of you being here today and look forward to your testimony let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written statements and they will appear in full in the hearing record you guys may be seated please limit your oral statements to 5 minutes as a reminder please press the button in front of you so the microphone is turned on so that uh everyone in the room members included can hear you when you begin to speak the light in front of you will turn green after four minutes the light will turn yellow when

the red light comes on your five minutes has expired and we would ask that you please wrap it up so I will first recognize R admal gallet to please begin your opening remarks thank you chairwoman Mace chairman grothman ranking members Connelly and Garcia and members of the committee thank you for this opportunity to testify today regarding unidentified anomalous phenomena or UAP confirmation that uaps are real came to me in January of 2015 when I was serving as the commander of the Navy meteorology and oceanography command uh at the time my Personnel were participating in a

predeployment naval exercise off the US East Coast it included the USS Theodore Roosevelt carrier strike group and this exercise was overseen by the United States Fleet forces command led by a fourstar Admiral who at the time was also my Superior officer during this exercise I received an email on a Navy secured network from the operations officer of us Fleet forces command the email was addressed to all the subordinate commanders and the subject line read in all capital letters urgent safety a flight issue the text of the email was brief but alarming with words to the

effect if any of you know what these are tell me ASAP we are having multiple near midair collisions and if we do not resolve this soon we are going to have to shut down the exercise attached to the email is what is now known as the goast video captured on the forward-looking infrared sensor of one of the Navy fa18 aircraft participating in the exercise the now Declassified video showed an unidentified object exhibiting flight and structural characteristics unlike anything in our Arsenal the implication of the email was clear the author was asking whether any of the

recipients were aware of classified technology demonstration demonstrations that could explain these objects because the dod policy is to rig rigorously deconflict such demonstrations with live exercises I was confident this was not the case the very next day that email disappeared from my account and those of the other recipients without explanation moreover the commander of Fleet forces command and the operations officer never discussed the subject even during weekly meetings specifically designed to address issues affecting exercises like the one in which the theer Roosevelt strike group was participating this lack of followup was very concerning to me

as the Navy's Chief neurologist at the time I was responsible for reducing safety of flight risks yet it appeared to me that no one at the flag officer level was addressing the safety risk posed by uaps instead Pilots were left to mitigate these threats on their own without guidance or support I concluded that the UAP information must been classified within a special access program managed by an intelligence agency that is a compartment of program that even senior officials including myself were not read into last year's UAP hearing before this oversight committee confirmed that UAP related

information is being withheld from senior officials and members of Congress and just this week I learned from former DOD official Chris melan that satellite imagery of UAP from a few years ago still has not been shared with Congress equally concerning last Year's UAP hearing also revealed that elements of the government are engaged in a disinformation campaign to include personal attacks designed to discredit UAP whistleblowers having never signed a non-disclosure agreement regarding uaps and now as a private citizen I've become an advocate for greater UAP transparency from the government the C the continued over classification surrounding

uaps has not only hindered our ability to effectively address these phenomena but has also eroded trust in our institutions while I applaud previous bipartisan legislation passed by Congress concerning uaps a more con comprehensive approach is needed to address the broader implication of UAP on public safety and National Security as well as the socioeconomic opportunities that open UAP research could unlock therefore I recommend Congress take the following action which I believe will receive bipartisan support first establish robust oversight of the executive Branch's management of UAP information by directing key officials beginning with the director of the

dod's all domain anomaly resolution office to provide comprehensive briefings on what the government knows about UAP and does not know two enact the provisions of the UAP disclosure act that establish a UAP records review board to ensure independent oversight transparency and accountability in the government's handling of UAP information and three strengthen the UAP disclosure act and future reauthorizations with Provisions that mandate a whole of government approach to addressing UAP in closing I will share my personal reasons for speaking out on this topic topic first as a former science agency leader having led the National Oceanic

and Atmospheric Administration I've always sought the truth in human knowledge and thought now that we know UAP are interacting with humanity and these include unidentified submerged objects in the ocean we should not turn a blind eye but instead boldly face this new reality and learn from it additionally at a time when leaders and government leave much to be desired I feel obligated to show moral leadership on this issue of UAP Disclosure by validating The credibility of the courageous men and women who have come out as Witnesses and whistleblowers to expose the truth my speaking out

has encouraged others to do the same and it may in my it's my hope over time that a number of your constituents will want to know the truth and about UAP and will increase this number will increase to such an extent that the congressional action I've just recommended will become inevitable thank you and I look forward to your questions thank you I will now recognize Mr alzando for his opening statement greetings chairwoman mace chairman gothman ranking members Connelly and Garcia and members of the committee it is my honor and privilege to testify before you on

the issue of unidentified anomalous phenomenon formerly known as UFOs on behalf of our brave men and women in uniform and across the intelligence Community as well as my fellow Americans who have awaited this day thank you for your leadership on this important matter let me be clear UAP are real Advanced Technologies not made by our government or any other government are monitoring sensitive military installations around the globe furthermore the US is in possession of UAP Technologies as are some of our adversaries I believe we are in the midst of a multi-decade secretive arms race one

funded by misallocated taxpayer dollars and hidden from our elected representatives and oversight bodies for many years I was entrusted with protecting some of our nation's most sensitive programs in my last position I managed a special access program on behalf of the White House and the National Security Council as such I appreciate the need to protect certain sensitive intelligence and Military information I consider my oath to protect Secrets as sacred and I will always put the safety of the American people first with that said I also understand the consequences of excessive secrecy and stovepiping nowhere was

this more apparent than in the aftermath of 9/11 which many of us remember all too well I believe that America's greatness depends on three elements a a watchful Congress B A responsive executive branch and C an informed public over the last decade and a half I learned that certain UAP programs were and are operating without any of these elements although much of my government work on the UAP subject Still Remains classified excessive secrecy has led to grave misdeeds against loyal civil servants military personnel and the public all to hide the fact that we are not

alone in the cosmos A small Cadre within our own government involved in the UAP topic has created a culture of suppression and intimidation that I've personally been victim to along with many of my former colleagues this includes unwarranted criminal investigations harassment and efforts to destroy one's credibility most Americans would be shocked to learn that the pentagon's very own public affairs office openly emplo employs a professional psychological operations officer as the singular point of contact for any UAP related inquiries from citizens and the media this is unacceptable many of my former colleagues and I have provided

classified testimony to both the Department of Defense and the intelligence Community Inspector General and many of us have subsequently been targeted by this cabal with threats to our careers our security clearances and even our lives this is not hyperbole but a genuine fact and this is wrong to fix these problems I propos three principal actions first Congress and the President should create a single point of contact responsible for a of government approach to the UAP issue currently the White House CIA NASA the Pentagon Department of energy and others play a role but no one seems

to be in charge leading to unchecked power and Corruption second we need a national UAP strategy that will promote transparency and help restore the American public's trust at a time when the Public's trust is at an all-time low this strategy should include a whole of government approach including the academic and scientific communities the private sector and our International partners and allies third Congress should create a protected environment so whistleblowers desperate to do the right thing can come forward without fear as it currently stands these whistleblowers suffer because of stigma a Code of Silence and concerns

about retaliation these whistleblowers should be encouraged to come forward in ways that protect them against any forms of retaliation policies and procedures should ensure that protection and for those who refuse to cooperate is up to the members of this committee and the other lawmakers to wield their subpoena power against hostile Witnesses and prevent additional Government funding to those UAP efforts that remain hidden from congressional oversight in closing We As Americans have never been afraid of a challenge in fact we thrive on them whether it's eradicating polio or going to the Moon we don't run from

a challenge we take it headon to the incoming Administration and Congress I say to you we need immediate public transparency and this hearing is an important step on that Journey if we approach the UAP Topic in the same way as we of As Americans have met other challenges we can restore our faith in our government institutions together we can Usher in a new era of accountable government and scientific discovery I believe that we as Americans can handle the truth and I also believe the world deserves the truth thank you esteemed members of Congress for your

time today it is profoundly appreciated by many thank you I ask unanimous consent for representatives ogal of Tennessee and bobbert of Colorado to be waved onto the subcommittee for today's joint sub Committee hearing for the purpose of asking questions without objection so ordered I would now like to recognize Mr shellenberger for his introductory remarks chairwoman mace chairman grathan ranking member Connelly ranking member Garcia members of the subcommittees thank you for inviting my testimony one of congress's most important responsibilities is oversight of the executive branch in general and the military and intelligence community in particular unfortunately

there is a growing body of evidence that the US government is not being transparent about what it knows about unidentified anomalous phenomena and that elements within the military and the IC are in violation of their constitutional duty to notify Congress of their operations president-elect Donald Trump and former president Barack Obama have both said that the government has information about uaps that it has not released current um there are other explanations for uaps than that that they represent a new form of life for non-human life current dominant alternative theories including those put forward by Arrow are

that uaps are some kind of natural phenomena we don't yet understand like ball lightning or plasma they could also be part of some new us or foreign government weapons program such as drones aircraft balloons CGI hoaxes or Birds whatever uaps Are Congress must be informed as as must the people of the United States we have a right to know what uaps are no matter what they are however we now have existing and former US government officials who have told Congress that arrow and the Pentagon have broken the law by not revealing a significant body of

information about uaps including Military Intelligence databases that have evidence of their existence as physical craft one of those individuals is a current or former US government official acting as a UAP whistleblower this person has written a report this is the report that says the executive branch has been managing UAP nhi issues without Congressional knowledge oversight or authorization for some time quite possibly decades furthermore these individuals have revealed the name of an active and highly secretive DOD unacknowledged special Access program or usap the source of that document told public me that the usap is a strategic

intelligence program that is part of the US military family of long-standing highly sensitive programs dealing with various aspects of the UAP problem the new UAP whistleblower claims that the US Military and IC database includes videos images taken using infrared forward-looking infrared full motion video and still photography the report that was just shared with Congress says Immaculate constellation serves as a central or parent use app that consolidates observations of uaps by both tasked and untasted collection platforms Immaculate constellation includes high quality imagery intelligence and measurement and signature intelligence of uaps the whle blowers report ads the

sources of this intelligence are a blend of directed and incidental collection capacities capabil ities positioned in low earth orbit the upper atmosphere as well as military and civilian Aviation altitudes and Marine time environments the report to Congress details in detail various uaps including spheres orbs discs saucers ovals triangles Boomerang Arrowhead and irregular organic report describes various incidents found in the human intelligence databases one involved orbs surrounding and enforcing an F-22 out of its Patrol area in another incident the crew of a Navy aircraft carrier watched the small orent red sphere rapidly descend from a high

altitude of 100 to 200 yards directly above the flight deck of a of the CVN or aircraft carrier and since my reporting on this Immaculate constellation last month another source came forward who told me that they saw a roughly 13-minute long highdef full color video of a white orb UAP coming out of the ocean approximately 20 mi off the coast of Kuwait it was filmed from a helicopter then halfway through the video the person said the orb is joined by another orb that briefly comes into the frame from the left before rapidly moving again out

of the frame the person discovered the video on siipper the secure Internet Protocol router Network which the dod uses to transmit classified information a leading UAP researcher who utilizes the Freedom of Information Act to find out what the government knows John Greenwald told me last year that the US government had been increasingly denying his resp his request for UAP information he has been doing Foye requests for 27 years and has an archive of 3 million Pages the government has for decades Deni denied any interest in UFOs he told me but the documents that he has

assembled show that behind the scenes it was a completely different story contrary to the hopes of many Advocates of transparency the government has been restricting more information since the leak of three UAP videos in 2017 the dod organization Arrow has been labeling many documents with a B7 exemption which Greenwald says does not make any sense they're stating that anything Arrow does is involved in law enforcement investigation which allows Arrow to not release it Greenwell says that the dod has denied the existence of a UAP and a related records on multiple occasions only to acknowledge them

after an appeal was filed he added that the Naval Air systems command in March 2022 stated they found no additional UAP videos it seemed strange that they had three and only those three but other requests had been filed by The Black Vault that's John greenwalt's group to seek out more places uaps might be hiding then in September 20122 the Navy admitted that the UAP related videos and photographs existed but denied the request in full for the release saying that the requested videos contain sensitive information that are classified and exempt from disclosure the dod will deny

things on a Monday and then admit to it on a Friday said Greenwald he said the government can and does release videos that protect secret methods of capturing it they fall back on the sensitive platform excuse a lot he said however the on-screen information can be blurred and scrubbed the metadata can be removed I'll show you this example here this is a presentation from the uatp task force this is completely absurd it's nuts this level of of censorship of redaction on a document it shows the redaction of how many reports they've collected for how many

years two of the three potential explanations are blacked out the Pentagon the intelligence Community is treating us like children it's time for us to know the truth about this I think that we can handle it thank you very much thank you I would now like to recognize Mr Gold for five minutes thank you chairwoman Mace chairman grathan ranking members Connelly and Garcia representative moscowitz and distinguished members of both subcommittees I'm grateful to all of you as well as your Intrepid staff for the opportunity to testify and would like to begin by discussing courage courage is

what it takes to tackle this topic and courage in the face of adversity is what I see in front of me beside me and behind me per my introduction I am currently the chief growth officer at redwire space and have had several leadership positions at Nasa that being said I want to be clear that I'm speaking exclusively on my own behalf and not for redwire NASA or any other organization however I am here today to speak out for science science requires data which should be collected without bias or Prejudice yet whenever the topic of UAP

arises those who wish to explore the phenomena are often confronted with resistance and ridicule for example members of the NASA UAP independent study team particular particularly those in Academia were mocked and even threatened for Simply Having the temerity to engage in the study of UAP our best tool for unlocking the mystery of UAP is science but we cannot conduct a proper inquiry if the stigma is so overwhelming that just daring to be part of a NASA research team elicits such a vitriolic response therefore one of the most important actions that can be taken relative to

exposing the truth of UAP is to combat the stigma and this is where I believe that NASA can be eminently helpful the NASA brand is synonymous with hope optimism and credibility if you were to take a walk down the National Mall you would immediately see the NASA logo on t-shirts hats and bumper stickers few federal agencies enjoy this kind of popularity I've never seen anyone wearing an office a personal management t-shirt which is why NASA could play such an influential role specifically NASA could with relatively little cost and effort uh host symposia on UAP or

even just participate in existing panels examining the topic NASA Personnel stepping forward and participating in such discussions would make a powerful statement to the scientific community that UAP should be taken seriously and researched accordingly in regard to research NASA has vast archives much of which may contain important UAP data again for relatively little cost and effort NASA could create an AI or ml algorithm that could search the agency's archives for anomalous phenomena I suspect that such an effort would not only result in information that will help us to understand UAP but could result in data

that will assist in other areas of scientific inquiry such as anomalous weather or meteorite activity Beyond its existing archives NASA could act as a clearing house for civilian and Commercial UAP data during my work on the UAP independent study team it quickly became evident that there is no clear or wellp publicized process for civilian Pilots to report UAP sightings the stigma associated with UAP hampers the number of Pilots that would report such phenomena but even for those who overcome the stigma I believe the current FAA guidance is largely unknown and poorly understood in order to

effectively collect UAP data the independent study team recommended the use of NASA's Aviation safety reporting system or asrs this system which is administered by NASA and funded by the FAA provides a confidential means for the reporting of safety violations in a voluntary and non-punitive manner over 47 years the asrs has collected nearly 2 million reports asrs is the perfect tool to collect UAP data which could then be collated by NASA and shared with the public at large leveraging asrs could create a treasure Trove of UAP data potentially hundreds of thousands of reports supporting this hearing's

goal of exposing the truth and I'm great grateful to our two co-chairs and other members who have already Incorporated this idea into proposed legislation at this hearing and as others have demonstrated the UAP issue is justifiably dominated by National Security and defense however I would urge the subcommittees to keep in mind the numerous ways that NASA and the FAA as well as commercial activities in the air in space and in the water can generate a massive amount of invaluable data on anomalous phenomena I cannot help but be excited by the potential for such an Endeavor

since scientific discovery is driven by anomalies it's the existence and study of anomalies that led to the theory of relativity quantum mechanics and nearly all of Humanity's scientific breakthroughs this is why the study of uaps should be embraced since whatever is occurring the chance to Garner new knowledge should never be ignored we must be thorough in collecting information Fearless in making conclusions and open to following the data no matter how mundane or extraordinary the results may be I began this testimony by praising The Joint subcommittee members for their courage and I will end by echoing

that sentiment as the saying goes the truth is out there we just need to be bold enough and brave enough to face it thank you thank you thank you all I will now recognize myself for five minutes of questioning I have a lot of questions and I have a lot of witnesses so I would just ask if it's yes or no to please just tell me yes or know um if it requires more than that um be very succinct because I would like to go down the line and ask as many questions as possible so

for the Admiral this morning first former DOD official Chris melon reached out to you about satellite imagery from 2017 that depicts a UAP what were the dates in 2017 when this occurred I can't share with you the details maam but I can do it in the closed setting and I can also tell you the agency that wrote a report on it okay so who has the imagery I can tell you that in the closed setting uh can you describe what was depicted in the satellite imagery just a description it was a UAP ma'am that's it

no other description the the the the term that the analysts used they called it the button it was a it was a dis shaped object okay where was it I can't tell you that man okay um all right okay Mr Al alzando you stayed in your testimony that quote Advanced Technologies not by our government or any other government are monitoring sensitive military installations around the globe end quote if these Technologies are not made by any government who's making them private companies or are you implying they are crafted by a non-human intelligence Well ma'am that's precisely

why we're here uh the problem is that temporally speaking over decades not just the last 10 years before what to put this in perspective when are these private companies you're implying or is this uh non-human intelligence it may be both U when it comes to Blue Force Technologies I would not be able to discuss are you read into secret UAP crash retrieval programs um we would have to have a conversation in a Clos session ma'am I signed documentation three years ago that restricts my ability to discuss specifically crash retrievals um I submitted for my book

through the doser process which took a year for it to be reviewed and what is in the book is what I was told I'm allowed to talk about has the government conducted secret UAP crash retrieval programs yes or no yes okay were they designed to identify and reverse engineer alien craft yes or no yes does the US government have any reverse uh okay we that question about retrieval programs um do any US contractors have the same um I would prefer to address it in a close session ma'am okay in your book you mentioned government employees

who've been injured by uaps placed on leave and receiving government compensation for their injuries is that correct that is correct how can the government deny we have recovered craft if they're paying people because they've been injured by recovered craft ma'am that's a great question that's why I think we're here again because I've seen the documentation by the US government for several of these individuals who have sustain sustained injuries as a result of a UAP incident it's a crazy idea right the hypocrisy and the logic okay Mr shellenberger I'm going to say it again to be

very clear Immaculate constellation um what's its Mission and how are they funded it's mission is to as I stated its mission is to um it's a it's an unacknowledged special Access program its mission is to document uaps okay and do you uh for your story and your report do you have more than one credible Source I do sourcing okay and then uh why do you believe your sources to be credible how do you judge the veracity of the documentation you've been provided about this program I checked the sources and they are who they say they

are they are uh current or former government officials I should also I wanted to also add that um I did not specify that they were uh defense department Department employees I didn't specify the agency nor the gender would they have included non-government employees people that aren't employed by the government uh these are I'm H I'm comfortable saying that these are uh government or uh previously government employees any of them currently employed by a private contractor or private contractors I'd rather not say Okay um what's the key takeaway uh just a few seconds about the M

constellation document you provided us today I think that what the American people need to know is that the US Military intelligence Community are sitting on a huge amount of visual and other information still photos video photos other sensor uh information and they have for a very long time and it's not those fuzzy photos and videos that we've been given there's very clear high res high resolution how many how many visuals Graphics videos photos I mean I've been told hundreds you know maybe thousands I mean I also wanted to say because there was some there was

some conversation around concern around the the revealing of these materials revealing the source collections but some of these are shot from helicopters using normal videos of oceans I just think that's absurd that somehow you're going to be revealing some secret us technology by revealing that you've sh you've photographed orbs off the coast of Kuwait okay thank you have eight seconds Mr Gold did NASA the NASA independent study team get briefed on what you call assap very quickly uh I flagged the advanced Aerospace weapon system Association program to our our chair and our DFO we did

not get briefed but I believe it is definitely worth looking into that was probably the largest UAP review effort ever and I think produced a lot of interest data including revealing nits I don't know if uh my fellow witness Lou might want he did Yan's work on it might want to comment okay all right I'm gonna uh turn to Mr moscowitz who will be recognized for five minutes of questioning uh thank you uh Madam chairwoman uh so Mr Gold you gave a whole dieet tribe for a couple of minutes about uaps science data collection stigma

a lot of non-believers in all of this would just ask a very simple question why why is it so hard right like why are people anytime they ask why are they always thwarted why are they always judged why is they always have misinformation spread why is there always retribution why is it always met with an ear what's the why if it doesn't exist why is there why why is it such a problem I think if you go through the history of science uh representative it is always difficult for breakthroughs and new information regardless of whether

it's UAP or any other kind of Discovery and in science we're supposed to be open but when you break with the Orthodoxy of what's believed whether it's Galileo saying that uh the Earth doesn't rotate or the Earth rotates around the Sun or the sun doesn't rotate around the earth it's always challenging for new beliefs and the more extraordinary those discoveries than the more extra orary those new beliefs it's very difficult so I think this is natural there's natural conservatism that when it comes to science but this issue in particular has been very difficult where again

even to attempt to study it becomes problematic but every hearing like this every news report uh every video documentaries I was privileged to be a part of something Dan far is putting together I think many of us have interviewed for it documentary over 30 uh different government officials every Brick in the Wall will help get us closer to getting to the truth I appreciate that uh Mr elzando did I have that correct sir I'm going to put my I'm a recovering lawyer so I'm going to put my hat on for a second you said you

signed a document love that who gave that to you the US government sir okay you have a copy of it um it is stored in the skiff right now uh I do not have possession of it the US government does what department of the US government gave you this document I will say the Department of Defense unfortunately I can't say in this forum much more than that you specifically said the document said you can't talk about Crash retrieval well you know you can't talk about Fight Club if there's no Fight Club correct okay I'm just

making an observation yes sir so that document that you signed that you said exists specifically said you can't talk about Crash retrieval correct sir it was a limitation on what I because already I'd been speaking publicly about the topic and so the document you can continue saying XYZ but you cannot discuss the topic give me give me the atmosphere of signing this document you're in a room by yourself I'm in a skiff with a security officer sir just one-on-one anybody else uh there may have been an assistant as well um it was in a skiff

within a Department of Defense facility give me your background real quick uh my background is um I went to school to study microbiology and Immunology uh entered into the US Army and after a very short stint in Military Intelligence um I became a Counter Intelligence special agent as a civilian later on I became a special agent in charge uh running investigations and counterterrorism and counter Espionage primarily uh with some experience in counter Insurgency and Counter Narcotics and then in 2009 time frame when I came back to the P Pentagon after a tour with the Director

of National Intelligence um I quickly became part of a program that was originally called oap that evolved into the program now called atip which is where those videos that we now see the go fast the gimbal the Fleer um that was part of our effort sir right so you don't you're not some conspiracy theorist you actually have a legitimate background well sir I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist uh I'm I'm fact-based just say facts so when you're in this room I want to paint the picture of everybody you're in this room you're by yourself you're

in a ski you're handed a document how long is the document uh it's about a page front and back so basically you have some things they call trigraphs which I cannot again uh talk to how long were you given to sign the document as long as I needed sir what if you didn't sign it well the I suspect there' be repercussions I wouldn't have access to certain information was aw were you allowed to conduct ask a lawyer or weren't allowed to talk weren't allowed to ask for a lawyer to review the document it wasn't an

option but they may probably wouldn't have have allowed me to because the document itself is pretty explicit about you have to be wait putting me in an interest let me try to thread the needle here um there are certain documents that we have in the US government that allow people to have access to certain programs whether it's a special and I'm going to be very generic here whether it's a special Access program or controlled Access program sap cap whatnot how many people have to sign that document it depends how many people are going to get

access to the information sir okay last question uh doctor real quick can you uh tell us about the Omaha incident in in Greater detail I've read your background right some people would label you as a member of the deep State uh with since you worked in government for a long period of time but can you tell us more about that incident you've written a lot about that I wrote a lot about incidents like it Congressman but that specific incident involved the USS Omaha the T tal Combat ship uh of the US Navy operating off Southern

California I don't remember the exact date it was within the last decade and what the watch standers on the bridge observed was a UAP again something that was uh aoft but had no observable exhaust or control surfaces so it was something that couldn't be explained and then they saw it enter the water uh from the atmosphere and going through the airc interface and so thus exhibiting trans medium travel thank you I yield back thank you I'll now recognize Mr grothman for five minutes of questioning yeah we'll start with Mr gadad um during a previous UAP

hearing uh Navy Commander David fraver discussed the tick tock object engaged in 2004 you familiar with the incident the ticktock incident yes sir that's almost 20 years ago right yes sir it's been said there are more videos documents and reports related to this incident do you believe the information regarding the Tik Tock incident should be available to all members of Congress and your expertise what reason the dep would the Department of Defense possibly have for not releasing information that's over 20 years old thank you Congressman I don't think there's any good reason to withhold information

and important data especially of National Security concern from Congress what would they what would they say I've I will speculate sir that they don't want to share that kind of information because it reveals weaknesses in our ability to Monitor and protect our airace okay in your written testimony you claimed last year's UAP hearing before this oversight committee confirmed that UAP related information is well it's not only being withheld um but that elements of the government are engaging in a dis disinformation campaign to include personal attacks designed to incit to discredit credit UAP whistleblowers could you

elaborate on that statement a little yes sir uh earlier this year I met with the dod's all domain anomaly resolution office and what I thought would be a 90-minute meeting just to meet with leadership turned out to be an hours long influence operation on me where I was they attempted to convince me of the validity of the very flawed and error error ridden historical records report uh in addition they at they tried to have me question very valid UAP reports like the Tic Tac incident and even even coming to uh stating possibly that uh the

the Tic Tac was American Technology uh and then of course if you asked David fraver Alex Dietrich the two witnesses they were convinced it was otherwise and then uh and they also cast discredit on diff various UAP whistleblowers and Witnesses uh to um question their validity and credibility as Witnesses okay uh we'll go to m Mr elando hope I got that right or not at least not sir um you're familiar with the recent drone incursion over Lang the Air Force Base yes sir the owners of these drones remain unclear the US military has not been

able to give us in Congress an answer given your experience with the Department of Defense and the intelligence Community how frequently are UAP sightings over military installations and secondly I suppose hypothetically you could have incursions over just say regular airports is it obvious these incursions are more likely over military facilities than just a random airport out there yes sir there's definitely enough data to suggest that there is certainly some sort of uh relationship between sensitive US military installations also some of our nuclear equities and also some of our department of energy sites there is a

long uh historical record that um some of your colleagues may may have documentation uh that demonstrates this this is not uh a a new trend this has been going on for for decades and it's that information's been OB fiscated uh unfortunately from from folks like you uh in in this committee and I think that's problematic because ultimately at the end of the day um we have a significant situation here we have something that can enter into US airspace completely with no attribution and how long has this been going on Sir decades and there's information that

will hopefully be entered into can you think of any possible reason why they can't release any information they have on something say 15 or 20 years old sir if I could Echo uh my colleague here Admiral G DEET um I think one of the big issues that we have in the intelligence Community Department of Defense is we don't want to broadcast any potential vulnerabilities or weaknesses in our National Defense systems or on intelligence collection platforms therefore when you have a conversation where you address a problem for which there is no solution um it makes that

a very uncomfortable conversation to have okay we'll switch to Mr shellenberger the primary reason you're here today is because you published an published an article on the news publication that you own called public right uh alleging that a new unnamed government whistleblowers has come forward asserting that a highly classified program exists dedicated to recovery and reverse engineering of UAP Technologies what can you give us what specific evidence you have um or that your Source provided you to substant initiate the claims about the existence of the Immaculate constellation program well you have the report in front

of you now so you can see it for yourself um but um I what I I checked the report and I did not find it based on existing cases it was new cases for me I couldn't at least I hadn't found anybody so that solve that answered for me that it was not obviously circular reporting which is one of the big concerns in the space I also had the name of the program confirmed by uh more than one additional source Source um so yeah and then I of course I checked to make sure that the

source was who they claimed to be okay I should also say that when I said before it was this database it is much broader program than that it also includes human intelligence and then as you mentioned the the retrieval and the any knowledge of what country these things originated in no no I have no idea okay okay I will now recognize U Mr burchett for five minutes of questions thanks chair lady requesting am consent to enter into the record documents provided to us regarding Legacy UAP programs and psychological operations um Lou Alando so ordered I

also wanted to thank my buddy Jeremy corbel for providing this documents and access to some whistleblowers Mr alzando what is the last position your last position with the federal government sir I was the director of national program special management staff managing a White House special access program on behalf of National Security Council how would you characterize uaps uh an enigma sir and a frustration um we are talking about technologies that can outperform anything we have in our inventory and if this was an adversarial technology um this would be an intelligent failure eclipsing that of 911

by an order of magnitude are there classified Department of Defense materials related uaps that you believe could be safely disclosed to the public without compromising National Security yes sir I do um I would never ever try to endorse providing some sort of information that could compromise what we call a blue Force technology or capability uh but I do believe there's a lot of information regarding this topic and I've been very vocal about it that should be shared not only with the public but most importantly with members of Congress are you familiar with my friend David

gush absolutely sir I had the priv privilege and honor of working with him myself several years ago at us space force last year as you know he testified that the US has run a multi decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program would you agree with that yes sir are there UAP programs operating without without proper congressional oversight 100% what are they unfortunately sir I would have to have that conversation in a closed session I know you said that a lot of people are frustrated with those kind of answers but we're asking those kind of

questions so you all know what the heck we're up against um you also mentioned in your opening statement that the pentagon's public affairs office EMP of psychological operations officers a singular point of contact for UAP related inquiries why the heck would they do that sure that's a great question I would ask the Pentagon there's a long history here of this that individual providing misleading and false information to the public through various uh news outlets and media outlets in order to discredit this topic um I've personally been victim to it we have the docum documentation to

substantiate where this information has been absolutely inaccurate that has been provided time and time again and it turns out that that individual was also working with former leadership of Arrow at the time as well and we punished them by giving them multi-million dollars more than they asked for every year Admiral gadet you mentioned in your opening statement on an email you received from the operations officer of the fleet forces command regarding unknown objects almost colliding with US military planes did you did anyone respond with knowledge of what the objects were uh I received no response

sir did the operation did the exercise get cancelled the exercise did not get canceled why do you think the commander of Fleet forces operations officer never discussed the incident again uh sir I'm speculating because I didn't have an exchange with him but I I believed it to be part of a special Access program the information and the video which we have know now it was and uh he he realized he couldn't share that openly with the recipients of the email and therefore the email was pulled from everybody's account again tell us what happened to the

email from the commander of Fleet forces uh the day after I received it and all and all the other recipients received it which were all the subordinate commanders of us Fleet forces so one and two star Admirals including strike group commanders the email was wiped or deleted from our accounts okay and then no one talked about it all right have you specifically had any um experience with submersible objects sir I have not no personal experience but I've had Witnesses uh on submarines come to me and say they've seen on on Sonar data uh correct okay

how would you how would you characterize those and how do they move the one instance uh that I was um that was revealed to me was uh in the 80s on a nuclear powered submarine a ballistic missile submarine that the object exhibited the characteristics of a Russian torpedo in terms of its speed of movement and closing rate with the submarine and then it slowed and then and followed the submarine slowly in its its wake um for a period of minutes and then rapidly exited the scene and that we know of and Technology wise could replicate

that now the speed of these objects was faster than anything that we have or anybody else has that would be manned is that correct it was on the order torpedo yes sir but has it exited well I don't I don't exactly know how fast a torpedo is but I supect it does better than my old outboard Scott out water so I I'll take that as a a yes okay uh have you experienced any experience with the all domain anomaly resolution off office Arrow uh yes Congressman as I mentioned previously I I have met with them

okay you heard Mr alexand describ psychological operations for those uh contacting the Department of Defense about uaps you mentioned a similar influence operation by Arrow why are federal agencies invested in in running information operations about uaps if they do not exist yes sir but I I'll make a statement on on Arrow's behalf they have new leadership uh the office has reached out to me to meet again and uh I take that as a a good faith effort and we'll see where that goes thank you chair lady I've run over thank thank you Mr Tennessee I

would now like to recognize Mr Higgins you're the king of Tennessee Mr Higgins you're recognized for five minutes of questions thank you madam chair Mr alzando Mr shellenberger notes in his in the report that that we've been given for this hearing um I believe Mr shellenberger let me shift you are the author of this this report I'm sorry sir I not the author of Mr shellenberger were you the author of this of this report there no name on it no do do you do you know the author I do you do and how would you

estimate that that Madam or gentleman the author uh the person is a current or former US government employee and it states here that that this the public version of the author's report yes so where might one find the nonpublic version of the author's report I don't know the answer to that would that be with the Department of Defense I don't know but you do know the author I do you know what the what the author's sources were the author's sources were are described in the report these databases the immaculate consolation but you express some confidence

in the sources I would earlier in in testimony you express confidence so do do you know those sources I do are they within the Department of Defense I can't say you can't say or you won't say I won't say okay why not because I protect my sources and I think the Reas but you're not naming them it's a big department but many of us on my side of all would say it's far too big so you're talking about the Department of Defense sources from within the Department of Defense I'm I'm un I'm not willing to

uh reduce the potential Universe of my where my sources might be okay moving on in this report Mr alzando for for reference uh several types of of allegedly alien craft or possibly alien craft or or unknown aerial phenomena what we used to call UFOs or describe spheres and orbs um disc and SAU ERS oval or Tic Tac triangular shape Boomerang and Arrowhead and irregular or organic Mr aland does that summarize to you the types of craft that we're discussing today sir that is a general morphology historically speaking of U so so those descriptions very different

craft would is it your is it your assessment that they would come of different of different Origins uh it's possible but it's also could be in sense a matter of utility and let me just State for the record I never read the report that uh or the article that Mr shellenberger put out um the reason that's a good point we're just referencing it yes sir for descriptive purposes for the American people um Mr shellenberger in this report is is striking to me that that regarding the descriptions of of uh experiences with these various craft several

of them include biological effects and several do not are you familiar with what I'm talking about yes okay so spheres and orbs triangular craft and irregular or organic craft includes some descriptions of biological effects including feelings of unease uh electronic device malfunctions um long term psychological effects such as anxiety or insomnia have been noted feeling of being watched a shared awareness with the triangle craft and Under The Irregular and organic craft biological effects effects include physical sensations of warmth or cold and unexplained smells and psychological distress so these are these are very specific Des descriptions

of the reactions of human beings which allegedly have been have been noted from from a study here a report did all of those experiences would have been would have been described by the sources that the author used I'm not sure I understand this a very broad description of of biological effects and it's it's striking to me that they are present with relation to some types of craft but absent in others this would require a great deal of research and study can you explain that my understanding is that this is uh the database is very large

it includes both the images the videos the still images as well as the human intelligence the reports the raw data from individuals having these experiences so in answer your question yeah I mean I think we're looking at a very large amount of data collected over many decades and that data is is held by the Department of Defense well I will I I will say that after I published I was told that this program that the usap was actually um managed by the Department of Defense but held at the White House Roger but that's a single

source and I I don't have multiple sources to verify that thank you sir I did my best to trick an answer out of you but I was partially successful madam chair I you thank you I now recognize Mr Frost for five minutes of questions thank you madam chair in addition to serving on this committee the oversight committee I also serve on the science space and Technology committee where we often discuss how essential data and evidence um are uh um are used in science and used at uh um Department such as NASA during a hearing NASA

administrator Nelson affirmed the importance of NASA and helping us to understand UAP uh Mr if the government doesn't have the data it needs on UAP because say someone who saw something is concerned about stigma public backlash Etc um or maybe there's just not good systems in place how are we supposed to ultimately figure out what's going on yeah thank you for the question and let me compliment administrator Nelson that there wouldn't have been a UAP independent study team if it wasn't for his leadership and courage we're talking about data and where we can get data

from as I described NASA has whole Archives of data much of which I believe will likely have information that will help inform UAP we need only look and again in an ERA with AI and ml we can relatively quickly and easily go through it so I think it's something that we should encourage and ass it to do however per chairman Gran's comment about UAP focusing on National Security sites I believe there's something s that you may have heard of called censor bias that because we've got more cameras more monitoring of National Security we don't know

how extensive UAP activity may be over civilian areas and this is to the second part of your question where we're not collecting the data we're not collecting sufficient data from Pilots we're not collecting sufficient data from civilian and Commercial activities and this is again where asrs I think could substantially change that get the data out there and allow us to do good science thank you I mean on the data um you know I'm a really big proponent of transparency um but obviously there's always a little bit of balance that we have to have in government

on transparency as well I mean last year NASA appointed a director of UAP research and response to the recommendation by the independent study team um in the final report there's a quote despite numerous accounts and visuals um the absence of consistent detailed um and uh curated observations means we do not presently have the body of data needed to make definite and scientific conclusions about UAP um can you just talk really quickly about that balance of security and transparency so I can say having served at Nasa it is the most transparent organization I've ever been in

when we would have conversations of executive leadership things would leak out almost instantly so I can assure you intentionally or not NASA's very transparent I don't know if many of you have worked with Engineers or scientists they love to talk so I believe that NASA is a paradigm of transparency but uh we must have the ability and the data to be able to be transparent with and if we're not Gathering that if not looking at it then we can't bring NASA into the game and get to that good science that you need you know it

was about a year ago I was touring a uh facility um with a pretty senior government official um we went by a certain hanger and they said yeah that's you know a company leases that out we don't really know what's going on in there we have no way of knowing what's going on in there um and there was a few of those in fact while we were driving around this facility to what extent do you think that some of the UAP out there comes from off thee books or unauthorized experimental aircraft I mean I think

probably the vast majority of UAP are drones experimental aircraft weather conditions which is again why I say if we review the data I think we're going to discover a lot about things we weren't even thinking about but there is a percentage that isn't and looking into those anomalies is how discoveries will be made and relative to science Congressman if I can say when NASA studies black holes when NASA studies galaxies we have instruments that are tailored to do so with UAP we're using cockpit gun cameras or cellphones we could never do good science with that

and let me tell you the NASA budget is under pressure we need to make sure that the emis program is funded fully we need to beat China to the moon and maintain our presence in low earth orbit so NASA would need more money to do this but I think tailored instruments that would look at UAP in the same way that we have tailored instruments to look at astronomical data is important to Gathering valuable and uniform information if we were studying black holes by using fighter cockpit cameras we probably wouldn't know that much about black 100%

well I think it's important that federal leaders uh take the necessary steps to ensure that UAP does not pose threats to the American public as well and that we have the necessary budgets um to collect this data so we can actually see what's going on and I'm fully supportive of funding the emus Mission I think it's very important also a personal note the uh the pilot is a frat brother of mine um he is a member of the F Beta Sigma fraternity Incorporated and so I would love to see my fraternity make it to the

moon but red wire is building the cameras for Artemis so we will take some pictures of your frat brother and get them there we go thank you so much I yield back thank you I will now recognize Miss Luna for five minutes of questioning uh Mr El to your knowledge can you name the country and around time frame that the first back back engineered uh UAP program started ma'am uh unfortunately I would not be able to have that conversation in public um Can anyone on the panel name that I can none of you okay um

this next question is for Mr go uh gadet to your knowledge have any Usos ever outpaced our submarines yes ma'am at what magnitude uh I don't have the exact speed but again a witness came to me a credible submar former submarine officer who uh observed it on on Sonar data and um this was in the 80s in the North Atlantic during a storm and uh it outpaced the his Submarine by orders of magnitude are you aware of any hotpots that currently exist off our Shores in North America not with sufficiently um uh credible data ma'am

okay we've heard reports of there potentially being hotpots maybe maybe enter and or entry and exit points have you heard of any of that uh I have it not ma' but I my colleague here Mr alzando does discuss some uh Uso activity that he's observed in certain DD databases uh Mr alzando in regards to these aircraft being piloted by whatever they might be nonhuman biologics are you would you agree that it's likely that are being piloted by some Mind Body Connection ma'am I think it is safe to presume here that they are being intelligently controlled

because they some cases seem to anticipate uh our Maneuvers and in other cases they seem to um you I came across an email where the word stocked was used in a uh in a very secure email between Navy officers discussing their ships uh being pursued by a UAP in our previous panel we had grush and he had testified to say that some of these were interdimensional beings can you speak on that at all ma'am I'm not qualified certainly as a scientist or otherwise to speculate points of origin um I looked at everything from a scientific

perspective so if you look at for example instantaneous acceleration which was one of the observables of the program that I belong to atip um the human body can withstand about 9g forces for a short period of time before you suffer negative biological consequences blackouts and ultimately spr outs and even death comparison our best technology the F-16 which is one of it's older platform but one of our most highly maneuverable aircraft man aircraft made by General Dynamics can perform about 17 or 18 G forces before you start having structural failure meaning that the airframe begins to

disintegrate while you're flying the vehicles we're we're talking about are performing in excess of 1,000 2,000 3,000 GS so are you I guess would it be safe to infer that there living Craft um you know I'm not prepared at this point to State for the record um is something alive or not because even that definition is s there was a time in science we we thought that um life required oxygen and we now know that's not true there are anerobic bacteria that thrive in oxygen uh environments that lack oxygen um and also same with photosynthesis

when I was in in college I was told every everything is derived from photosynthesis uh as a form of energy um in reality that's not true there are things that live off of chemosynthesis so we're constantly H having to reevaluate our understanding of what what the definition of life is um do any of you ever come across reports from people that claim to have firsthand experiences with these entities whatever they might be or these aircraft and then as a result whether or not their religious find that these things will automatically disappear anyone and this is

open to any of you on the panel so just real quick because I'm running out of time Lou uh ma'am um I've always been a nuts and bolts kind of guy when I was at a tip um I was focusing more on the performance Char characteristics and less on the the potential occupants okay um the reason I ask is because it seems like just based on our conversations that we've had people that say that there are good and bad of whatever these things are and so my concern from a national security perspective is is a

that true B are you guys hearing the reports of that and see I think moving forward in regards to technology Mr Gold if you can answer this real quickly some of these aircraft it seems that they are operating off of energy that we don't currently have uh but just yes or no in your opinion if we were able to obtain that would that impact Humanity for the better or negative would certainly save us some money on funding an emis definely this is a national security issue that if there is such technology out there we're not

the only country that might have access to it we don't want to be on the wrong end of technological surprise okay thank you guys for your time all right thank you um I will now recognize Mr Garcia for 5 minutes thank you and I apologize for stepping out my Governor is here upstairs so I'm going trying to get in between meetings so apologize for that um I want to I want to just start by I'm just asking everyone on the panel or Witnesses and I had a chance to read all the testimony uh uh before

but just to set the agenda just if we can go down real briefly do you believe just for the record that um the federal government any part of the federal government is knowingly concealing evidence about uaps from the public yes sir 100% yes yes thank you I also want to just go down the line and I know youve many of you have already said this but I just for the record again just briefly um what do you believe uaps could be or are strong evidence that they are non-human higher intelligence I Echo uh my colleague's

comment sir genuinely do not know don't know but we must find out okay thank you I I appreciate those answers um uh gentlemen I think this is obviously another U remarkable hearing with just really important information so I thank all of you for for answering the questions um Admiral I just want to um go back to one thing now last year our subcommittee heard from two retired Navy Pilots Lieutenant Ryan Graves and Commander David frer um regarding uaps actually I think Ryan is here in the audience and been a great um person to get to

know and to have conversations with uh he of course has been been involved in the safe air uh airspace for Americans act um with chairman Graves with chairwoman mace for UAP reporting by civilian Aviation Personnel can you discuss briefly why it's important for civilian Pilots to be able to report uaps and why these legal protections are critical for National Security yes Congressman thank you and I did invite uh Ryan Graves as my guest as I'm on his Advisory board for the Americans for safe Aerospace and the legislation that you supported and introduced I fully support

as well and I think it's important that more civilian Pilots commercial pilots report so we can better understand and learn and do research on UAP as well as uh remove the stigma so more citizens report on what they observe and uh and also it'll only contribute to Aviation safety when we have a better understanding of where these UAP are how they operate and at what frequency and what capability level so it's important for Aviation safety and it'll be important for moving science and research forward than and I just want to just reiterate to my colleagues

I mean this is a very bipartisan piece of legislation and we just got to continue to get this through the Congress and it's incredibly important that civilian Pilots have the opportunity to safely report the uaps that they are seeing or encountering in the air and I can't express uh how critical this piece of what I believe is a larger collection of evidence and facts actually happen we've been approached by pilots I've talked to folks that that that um uh have been engag with our office and others and there is still an enormous stigma and essentially

we are we we don't have a system where folks are feeling free to be able to report what they're seeing and so I just want to reiterate that um uh that advocacy Mr Gold in your testimony you discussed NASA's Aviation safety Reporting System a confidential non-punitive reporting mechanism um in the safe airspace for Americans act we explicitly allow for civilian reporting of course of uaps can you explain why the NASA task force recommended the use of the aviation safety Reporting System the aviation safety reporting system is an existing system that is trusted that has taken

hundreds of thousands now millions of cases and again recognizing budgetary constraints this seem like the perfect way to be able to gain more data and when it comes to the stigma Ser it's something that Pilots are used to reporting on that crew is used to reporting on so it's a great way to get data to overcome the stigma without spending really that much more additional money since the system exists thank you so much for your support of that thank you for what Ryan Graves does this is a common sense means to expose the truth of

UAP for the purpose of this hearing thank you and I just want to also add now earlier this year um as part of the house defense authorization Bill the ndaa I filed an amendment to include the UAP disclosure act which would create a UAP record review board and ex and exercise um with exercise of eminent domain over UAP related material modeled actually on the JFK assassination records collection act which is is is widely known now the amendment was blocked but thankfully the Senate included uh the amendment by Senator rounds and Schumer for the UAP disclosure

act so I just again want to say that we should be pushing and ensuring the UAP the UAP disclosure act which is bipartisan and its support uh should be should move forward and if I can just briefly um also um particularly Adam R can you just briefly as I close my time explain why the UAP disclosure act would be critical for us and our national security thank you Congressman yes I believe the UAP disclosure Act is important for National Security as well as advancing potential socio economic benefits resulting from UAP research as well as Public

Safety as we referred to previously regarding Aviation and this act will allow for greater transparency and open research and uh and that's why I'm also a member of the UAP disclosure fund as an adviser as the sole Foundation uh as an advisor senior strategic adviser which is advocating for the same thank you very much I yield back all right thank you I'd like to recognize Mr BS for 5 minutes of questioning thank you madam chair thank you for holding this committee thank you to the witnesses uh Admiral uh the video uh that is called the

go fast video the email that you've talked about being deleted um I I just want to briefly cover this uh you said that the email the author was asking whether any of the recipients were aware of the classified technology demonstrations that could could explain the objects that were observed and then you said the email disappears then you guys have uh a series of of meetings the commander of Fleet forces and his operations officer never discussed the incident again is that right is that accurate that's accurate sir and uh even during weekly meetings it was never

discussed again my question for you is um you were in those meetings did you personally hear that nothing was going on about that yes sir I was in those meetings and uh did you make inquiries about no I did not be sir because uh I I inferred since I had been read into other special access programs that this UAP video was part of one that I was not read into or any of the recipients or the author of the email and that an intelligence agency basically pulled it back and instructed the the author of the

email hey this is you you just conducted what they call spillage into a lower classification level and when that's done the procedures are basically to remove any of the communications you're going to Silo it so um and you uh Mr alzando you said in your report and and and your your testimony today um a government work on the UAP subject Still Remains classified excessive secrecies led to grave misdeeds against loyal civil servants military personnel and the public all to hide the fact that we are not alone in the cosmos Fair yes sir all right and

and all of you and and and Mr shellenberger by by the way I've read several of your books Mr shellenberg excellent stuff uh what I would say too is um you were asked about the veracity of the author of this report you're comfortable with veracity yes okay and then uh and I'll get to you a second Mr Gold we'll talk about kunian and laosan uh scientific uh advancement and how we're obviating that through these processes but we'll get to that in a sec because what I want to really get to is um the ultimate question

Al really becomes this for what purpose is the federal government over classifying because that's what they're doing they're over classifying and forbidding the public for getting access to this and and if you know if you have an explanation I'm I'm curious because um I I know what I've been told I just want to know from your perspective why do they over classify Mr alexand you look like you're finger on the button ready to go yes sir forgive me um I think there's several reasons um I think at the time when this first this this reality

became evident to the US government we were um in the middle of the cold war with then Soviet Union and we did not want to tip our hands to what um our knowledge base was on this topic we did not want to broadcast that to uh Cold War cold war is long over it is her it is her um there's also then the philosophical argument that um the Department of Defense and the intelligence Community is solution oriented and when you don't have answers it's it's a really tough spot to be in it's easier to be

quiet and suppressed than if you don't have the an indeed sir in fact there's a there's a very real example uh when we built the U2 spy plane and flew it over then um Russia and we're taking reconnaissance and when we first started flying the aircraft it flew so high and so fast we thought they weren't tracking Us in reality they were tracking every flight it wasn't until the Russians Russians could develop the sa2 surface ter aair missile and successfully shoot I I would suggest to you also along with Latos and and you also have

a problem with Kenneth Arrow's um path dependence or increasing returns that's one reason why they won't disclose it it's too painful to admit but I just want to read a couple things from Mr shellenberger uh what he gave to us today because I think this is uh this is interesting stuff and and and and I just want to convey this to you on USG networks there exist infrared footage of and and imagery of a grouping of vessels engaged in signant and mass in collection at night in a specific area of the Pacific Ocean this footage

which was in close proximity to the vessels a large equilateral triangle UAP suddenly appears directly over the ships these bright three PR uh excuse me three bright points are seen at each bottom corner of the UAP which is observed to slowly rotate on its horizontal axis and he goes on to describe that um and I just want to read one more and I'm doing this because uh I think I think it's interesting this stuff is interesting uh as as anything so let's get this one here right here while performing a routine airspace surveillance and control

mission in the Eastern air defense sector an F22 fighter observed multiple UAP contacts at Mission altitude moving to intercept the F-22 pilot noted multiple metallic orbs slightly smaller than a sedan hovering in place upon vectoring towards the uaps a smaller formation of the metallic orbs accelerated at rapid speed towards the F22 which was unable to establish radar locks on the presumed hostile uaps the F22 broke trajectory and attempted to evade but was intercepted and Boxed In by approximately 3 to six uaps um and then I I'll leave that there but because I I just have

no more time left uh I well she's not looking so let's just get into let's let's get into to to part of this I thought I would be saved by the belt yeah no no let's talk about cian lakatosian type of uh scientific development and the problem that we have here is you have institutional blockage of what would be normal development of scientific ideas and uh if you want to expand that Mr we're over time to be very fast please um I'll just say I'm a recovering attorney so please take it EAS me on the

science but uh all breakthroughs have been heretical at first and that's the challenge that we Face particularly with something as extraordinary as this which is why Gathering the data is so important and I'll just end by saying by the way the over classification of material is in no way limited to UAP that is occurring throughout the government as well as the inability to get people classifications in a timely and efficient manner and then to have those classifications be broad enough to be useful so this is a larger issue that I hope that Congress will look

thank you thank you Mr BS I've been generous all right Mr Burleson I'll recognize you for five minutes of questions please thank you madam chair uh Mr elzando um I um does the any branch of the United States government or defense contractors possess technology sir there's documentation um that I believe was submitted for the record that it was rele approved for release by the US Pentagon by the uh Department of Defense office of pre-publication Security review and it is uh it states one of the reasons why my predecessor program assap uh was trying to collect

material uh of uh Unknown Origin did you Su was it successfully collected uh um it was not what happened is that there was an aerospace contract company that requested to divest itself of the material that was collected in 1950s um unfortunately that that didn't actually occur so let's dive into that that's the um Bigalow airspace correct so um there was a journalist Christopher sharp who who said that lock there was a transfer between locky Martin Bigalow airspace and the CIA allegedly blocked this can you describe that um what I can say is that it was

blocked um why it was blocked I can I can only smise um I was part of some conversations later on with some of those contract Personnel where they they had told all of us that is accurate um what we required was a memo from the secretary of the Air Force in order to make that complete and that never occurred and so when secretary Mattis became Secretary of Defense um I decided it would be appropriate for me to try to receive a memo from him as SEF as secretary defense if we could not get a memo

from the secretary of the Air Force to transfer that material so if that material exists today who's in possession S I wouldn't be able to have that conversation uh in an open hearing we'd probably have to have that okay my my question to you then is if we were in a secure setting if we were in a skiff would you be able to provide or get access to something whether it's a visuals or material that we can put our hands on or biolog s that would convince me that would show me um that that we

have non-human Origins sir that decision would not be mine that would be to the gatekeeper still in the US government and who would we so if you were in our shoes where would you go from here how would you get that information how would where you know a lot of times we just don't know who to ask because we don't know um where to go next so if you were in our shoes where would you go well I I prefer to answer that question in a close session however we we established arrow for that very

purpose and unfortunately under its previous leadership it failed um so one would hope that they would have the authorities necessary to do that um let's hope that this new iteration of leadership uh will be successful um in in the discussions it's it's simply about material or is there discussion about biolog it was previously testified that there was biologics that were collected are you aware of any of that I am sure aware of the reporting that biologics have been recovered again my focus was more nuts and bolts um looking at the the physical aspects of these

phenomenon how they interacted around uh military equities and nuclear equities so I'm certainly not a medical expert um I would not be able to probably provide you a whole lot of value in that simply because I don't have the expertise to was anything described as that we have possession of bodies yes yes we have is it multiple types of creatures or sir I I couldn't answer that um I can tell you anecdotally that it was it was um discussed quite a bit when I was at the Pentagon the problem is the colle supposed collection of

these biological samples occurred before my time in fact before I was even born and was this part of the locky Martin discussion or was this a complete the biologics is a completely separate um separate yet related okay um has has anyone made contact sir I'm sorry could you specify has there been any to your knowledge any communication with a non human life form so the term communication is a bit of a trick word because um there's verbal communication like we're having now the problem is you also have non-verbal communication and so I would say definitively

yes but from a non-verbal meaning when a Russian reconnaissance aircraft comes into US airspace we scramble two f-22s and we are certainly communicating intent and capability um I think the same goes with this we have these things that are being observed over controlled us airspace um and they're not really doing a good job hiding themselves they're making it pretty obvious they have the ability to even interfere with our our nuclear equities and our nuclear Readiness is is um the United States government or and our contractors are they pulling you know technology from this they're they're

reverse engineering this sir as I previously stated please forgive me um I am not authorized to discuss specifics about Crash retrievals um I again I signed documentation with the US government um what I can say was after a very thorough review process by the Pentagon what I wrote about and that was my limit unfortunately that I was given thank you yes sir thank you I would like to recognize Mr timens for five minutes of questioning thank you madam chair uh Mr alzando you just said something interesting you said they don't seem to be hiding they

don't seem to be hiding the UAP sightings are becoming increasingly um Brash if you will and you know we've been hearing about these for years but they've generally been isolated and not um as consistent and overcritical military installations um would you say that's fair is is this becoming increasingly uh of is it happening more and more great question sir um let me see if I can answer this for you um certainly there seems to be some some indication that they're being provocative meaning that they're in some cases literally splitting aircraft formations right down the middle

um so that's an air safety issue the question is it is it is it the frequency increasing and the the really the respond is it depends yes it's possible that there is an increase in frequency but it's also possible that there's heightened awareness now and there's also more pervasiveness of Technology out there that's collecting this information and that can record this information so we're not quite sure yet if it's actually an increase in in numbers of of these events or is it that we have better equipment now that to record these things and we can

we have a better ability if you will to to analyze these things and that's my next question do you it seems that a lot of these sightings occur near mil military installations do you think that these um uaps are intentionally targeting military installations or do you think that we have increased abilities to monitor surrounding the military installations sir maybe both um part of my concern is we have something in the Department of Defense and the intelligence uh Community called ipb uh initial preparations of the battle space and we use equities like ISR intelligence surveillance reconnaissance

and other type of equities and Technologies to prep the battle space um and certainly you know if I was wearing my National Security hat even if there was a 2% chance that there was some sort of of hostile intent here um that's 2% higher than we really can accept and so we must figure out there's a calculus capabilities versus intent in order to identify if something is a national security threat we've seen some of the capabilities yet we have no idea in the intent and so this is why this discussion is is somewhat I think

problematic from a governmental perspective because we have have no idea sure thank you uh Mr shenberger you're particularly familiar with the Langley Air Force Base incident a year ago are you familiar just just from what I read in the new just from what you've read um the I would imagine a large percentage of the of the American population became aware of that with the Wall Street Journal article would you agree with that yes and um were you aware of that incident prior to the Wall Street Journal article no um to the rest of the panel

it was the Wall Street Journal AR the first time that y'all were made aware of what was essentially an over two we um UAP frenzy over uh langle Air Force Base did were you all aware of this prior to the Wall Street Journal article any anybody show hands yes sir Dr gup could you give me your H how did you become aware of it well a colleague of mine who I referenced previously Chris melon he wrote a extensive article about this that there were other incursions of drones over langly before this as well as many

many military installations over the last five decades and it's my understanding that there's been an ever increasing in number and um trying to think how to say this because I wear two different hats I'm still in the Air Force um so I mean it seems that they're becoming increasingly Brash and the question that we really have to figure out is if is it China or is it non-human and I think that's the biggest question the American people want to know if it's China it's scary because they have a lot of Technology that we cannot explain

and if it's nonhuman that's scary because we don't know the intent would you say that's fair yes Congressman in fact I really believe that we should use this hearing to as a catalyst to improve and bolster our uh air defense capabilities and and our Maritime a domain awareness capabilities because obviously there are holes in it whether it be UAP of non-hi direction or nhi direction or like you as you say Sir China or any other adversary are you all aware of any Task Force at the Pentagon or in the National Security apparatus that's trying to

assess the answer to that question at at the current moment sir no but this is a great point from 2020 to 2022 there was a UAP task force in the dod succeeding where Mr alzando worked led by J Stratton who had the first comprehensive whole government approach to UAP which involved Pathways to declassification and to increase transparency as as well as assessing the security risk of UAP this was this was a really wellestablished approach and we have all advocated that something like it return I'm running out of time the last thing is that we need

authorities um the law enforcement military do not have authorities to actually engage and we need to Congress needs to act to give those authorities to uh local law enforcement in the military so they have clear guidelines on how to assess these uh issues going forward I yield back thank you thank you I'd like to recognize Miss Boer for five minutes a questioning thank you madam chair uh now that we have all been cautioned in this Committee hearing uh that the mention of pentagon's uh Immaculate cellation program could uh put us on a list well um

I already find myself on many lists I'm sure so um I speak my mind often so why not just keep going with it um may as well just go all out and say it the Earth is flat birds are government drones and uh we've never set on foot on the moon and Joe Biden received 81 million votes in the 2020 election so uh let's just see how many how many lists we could get on here today um but Mr shellenberger I wanted to ask you um I think I understand from this hearing that you would

agree that classifying information like this is not in the best interest of the people is that correct yeah I mean with the cave that of course I you know I would support classification necessary to protect Secrets essential to National Security but I think it's pretty obvious that there's over classification over classification yes and so in most instances if they can't tell us what do you think at some point they'll at least tell us why you know president-elect Trump has repeatedly committed to Greater transparency both on the UAP issue on JFK files on yes Co Origins

and many other things so I think that we need to make sure that the next Administration is held accountable for that agreed and this is for all four of you yes or no please I have many questions I want to get to um are there any known instances of recovered materials or techn um Technologies um that are not of human origin and um maybe connected um to any advanced bio bioscience defense programs within the USG I don't know I wouldn't be able to answer that ma'am I don't know I don't know okay so um there

are rumors that have come up to the hill um of a secretive project Within the Department of Defense involving uh the manipulation of human genetics with what is described as non-human genetic material potentially for the enhancement of human capabilities hybrids are any of you familiar with that yes or no no ma'am I am not ma'am I not no ma'am okay I would like to know um with Immaculate constellation um how does this relate to U UAP activities Mr shellenberg um in Oceanic environments are there any instances where the Navy or other um Marine time uh

um um forces have encountered uaps that could not be explained by known technology or natural phenomena yeah the uh maget constellation uh covers both terrestrial and oceanic and there's actually a number of cases described in the report that occur um in the ocean and do you believe that there is a concerted effort by the Pentagon uh to keep Congress out of the loop regarding these UAP activities specifically in our Waters yes I think it's about 5% of our ocean that's actually been studied in detail um by man uh and we've we've studied more of space

than we had of our own oceans and so are there any accounts of uaps emerging from or submerging into our water which could indicate a base or presence beneath the ocean's surface I I don't know about a base but you know as I mentioned I had a different Source entirely described this pretty extraordinary footage that exists of orbs of an orb coming out of the ocean and being met by another orb um some would say that there's multiple hotpots where we see frequent activity so in in your investigations have you AC come across any data

or Visual Evidence like sonar readings um or underwater footage of these uaps I have not Beyond what's in the report um you've written about uaps not only in the air but in underwater um are there any specific specifics um on what you've learned about the UAP activity um in our oceans particularly have you um spoken with uh sources who have uh provided any evidence or eyewitness accounts of uh these uaps interacting with our Naval forces or um being detected um by our underwater surveillance systems nothing Beyond what's in the report and then the the specific

case that I mentioned with the orbs and so this report says it all there's there's no other information that we are aware of um regarding the activity within our Waters I have other sources that are have told me that have shared a significant amount of information but they're not comfortable uh with me sharing it at this point okay um are there any um technological capabilities observed in um these uh Oceanic uaps that seem to defy our current understanding of physics or our engineering capabilities it seems like they all do yes I would agree agree with

that um and uh my my time is up but I do appreciate um your bravery your courage for coming here and speaking today and uh seems like there's still some questions that we need answers to and we will not relent until we get those to the American people thank you all thank you I moved to allow myself and the ranking member five additional minutes for questions without objection so ordered um Mr alzando were you right into the immaculate constellation program Ma I would not be authorized to confirm nor deny the existence of any ongoing or

past program especially as it relates to a special access program either by name or trigraph okay and then are there does the US government or private contractors they work with other foreign countries China for example to exchange data quote from a source uh that intelligence data about UAP um let me see if I can answer that a little bit more generally ma'am if I may u we do have foreign material exploitation uh programs um that is something that is widely known and that term itself is unclassified how exactly that works becomes a bit sensitive uh

a discussion we could certainly have in a in a close session if you like we do work with International partners and allies quite often not just in military exercises and workups but in other intelligence um efforts as well in terms of material that's given to private contractors is certain material given to certain contractors because of their experience so for example uh if it's um related to submerged and undersee propulsion would it go to a general contractor like General Dynamics yes ma'am absolutely correct um different contractors have different levels of expertise what's lockheed's expertise Aerospace ma'am

in in the UAP space that's all that uh they wouldn't do submerged I no I didn't say that ma'am okay Loy Martin and others do quite a bit of work both um in our atmosphere in space and and even underwater there are there are certain um efforts to it's a tough question you're asking put me on the spot here I'm ask I'm looking for the answer yes ma'am no they they are involved in a lot um I would rather let locky Martin explain um the different domains that they are involved with um probably not authorized

to discuss that but they are involved in a lot of lot of different areas and domains adal flight safety risks for our Pilots based on what you've experienced and seen in your career they're extensive and the one exercise I referred to where I received the email that was then deleted was the the pilots and this is worth bringing out there are debunkers out there who have said the go fast video was just a balloon that was only one video that was released there were dozens of these encounters that Pilots friends of Ryan Graves who's in

this room right here uh witnessed and and caused significant safety concerns and to almost call out and exercise it and shut it down it which is very compressed and the the carrier is getting ready for deployment and the pilots have to get certified at land on a carrier it it's extreme to say the least all right I have two last questions um real quickly Mr shellenberger how do we get more whistleblowers to come forward well this hearing does you know is very important and obviously you know I I can't en encourage whistleblowers to obtain information

but I can um guarantee that I will protect them and go to prison to protect their identities if they come to me yes sir okay my last question the first hearing we had on this um I never briefed on uaps or what they were biologics non-human Etc how would you define each of you my last question how would you define non-human biologics non-human intelligence what are we actually talking about Admiral and we'll go down the line I don't think it's a stretch when you look at the diversity of Life on this planet and the size

of this universe to think that there would be more diverse higher order non-human intelligences throughout the Universe and that's probably was visiting us um I would take the scientific approach the the the def would be the ability to react to a stimulus um in a manner that uh requires an intellectual thought process I just don't know I think we must be modest in our assumptions that we're looking for intelligence that could be biological it might not non-biological but what non-biological intelligence what does that mean though uh artificial intelligence ml machines we assume that all intelligence

would be like us and every time we look out in the universe we are humbled relative to what we don't know in terms of the forms of intelligence and what it may take I can assure you I probably can't ask you your question but I think the ultimate answer is going to surprise us all and then Mr Garcia do you had a few closing remarks I know we're about to get hit votes here so I'll I'll be brief just um I want to thank you all for for being here I want to thank chairwoman mace

especially for holding this important bipartisan hearing uh and I want to thank all the committee members that are interested in this topic uh I think our commitment to to all of you and all the folks that have contacted us and certainly to The Advocates and the pilots is that we need to continue um investigating uh uaps uh I think the country um owes uh the country's owed explanations and ensure that the safety or national security is is always protected um this is a conversation and questioning that must continue so I'm very grateful to all of

you um and I also just want to just add just just personally I think it's really important for me two things guide um my my questioning and my observations on uips is one is we should always be Guided by facts science and data uh and and stay serious on those issues uh and the second thing is I think that we should not limit our imag our imagination and our thoughts and our Curiosity on what uaps could actually be and I think those two things for me are really important and I'm grateful that for all of

you to be here so with that I yield back okay and we have Mr ogles who is on the way is going to be here any second is that correct want to check and he'll be the last uh and last member with questions that we have today and then we're going to we have votes so we want to thank you all for being here I want to thank Mr Garcia and folks on both sides of aisle for being here today and being patient we have a lot more questions um and I hope that this will

open the door to more hearings in the future I obviously would like to know how much taxpayers are spending on this you have the right to know but also if we're spending money on something that doesn't exist why are we spending the money and if it doesn't if and if it does exist why are we hiding it from the public and uh of course our national security is a huge issue because if there's technology that uh could harm us or Allies that are in the hands of our adversaries we obviously want to stay ahead of

that uh to the best of our ability to ensure that um that that technology is not in the hands of someone who could use it against us or our allies anywhere in the world so Mr ogles you're just in time babe uh I will recognize you for five minutes of questioning before we head on out today well thank you all for being here and Madam chairwoman I out of breath because I sprinted to get here but uh this is an important hearing um I think we all know that there's something going on Mr alzando based

on your knowledge of UAP sightings do you believe it's fair to say that they are especially common near nuclear sites yes sir uh Mr Congressman I absolutely uh am convinced of that as are my colleagues uh inside the government and the reason why I POS that question and this has been one of my talking points from the beginning is you know Oak Ridge is in Tennessee the so-called weather balloon that drifted that we now know was controlled it it passed near Oak Ridge it obviously is a sensitive site both uh of interest to our adversaries

and to whatever else this is because we know that at military installations at sensitive locations such as nuclear facilities that we're seeing this take place so the question is what is it do you believe they've caused an irregular activity and why might they be interested in those sites sir um in some cases it's actually regular activity you'd be surprised there's actually document documentation right now that's been submitted it's not just oakd it's Savannah Rivers site SRS it's also Los Alamos um a lot of our uh sensitive R&D locations appear to be under some sort of

surveillance and monitoring um why well because a lot of innovation comes out of those areas a lot of new technologies a lot of uh if you will disruptive technologies that we use for our National Defense U is originates out of out of those locations and advanced concepts and physics as well so if IA doing any type of reconnaissance um even on a foreign adversary that's a great Target uh to start with sure and and again this has been one of my talking points I do have questions um what role might the department of energy or

its subsidiaries or Affiliates have in this type of Technology uh or possessing this type of Technology whether it's ours or others Mr gud day I think your testimony's been pretty clear but but would you please reiterate that do you believe uaps POS a threat to Pilots Excuse me yes sir I I absolutely they were threatening Navy pilots during the exercise that I was my people were involved with in 2015 and it's my understanding that're they're risking uh pilot safety Commercial and Military today well considering and I understand that there's a need uh in some cases

to keep certain Technologies secret but you believe that it is posing a threat to our Personnel correct yes sir so I think it's reasonable to conclude that if there is a threat to our Personnel who are serving our country Faithfully that there be oversight 100% Congressman in fact that's the one thing that we've not talked about enough during this hearing is is the fact that the government executive branch not sharing with Congress what it knows about UAP infringes on your legislative and oversight responsibilities to such an extent that's very concerning I mean what what else

are we if you look at National Security or intelligence or Foreign Affairs or Appropriations you all have oversight and legislative responsibility regarding those this UAP issue may be the greatest issue of our time and it's being it's being hid from you well I mean to your point I I think we've seen over the decades that we have certain adversaries like China like Russia that uh techn technologically speaking are not as advanced as us that they they lack some of the lethality that we have and that we've seen that they've gone after our Technologies and in

some cases succeeded in particular with missile technology and so again my concern whether this technology emanates from us or otherworldly that we know that we possess it and where's the accountability where are the stop gaps what are the guarantees that if this were to fall in enemy hands that it isn't immediately weaponized against us and I'll say this it is clear from my experience and what I've seen that there is something out there the question is is it ours is it someone else's or is it otherworldly and Madam chairman I would posit that as the

legislative body as the regulatory body we must know and anyone who prevents us from Gaining access to that information I would consider that criminality because we have us Personnel who may very well be In Harm's Way we have technology that ultimately May threaten our very existence with that Madam chairman I thank you for your Indulgence and I yeld back thank you Mr ogal and with that and without objection all members will have five legislative days within which to submit materials and to submit additional written questions for the witnesses which will be forwarded to the witnesses

for their response if there's no further Business Without objection the subcommittee stands adjourned nice apprciate well done sir thank you e