Watch: CBS News VP debate between JD Vance and Tim Walz | full video

[Music] tonight with just over a month to go until election day the first and only meeting between the two men who hope to become Vice President of the United States Democratic governor Tim Walls of Minnesota and Republican senator JD Vance of Ohio now this is likely the final debate of this election cycle and voting is already underway in 20 States CBS News polling shows this remains a race either presidential candidate could win the CBS News vice presidential debate Starts Now fight for every single vote and we're going to take this country back and we are

ready to continue to build the future together we're going to turn this whole country r with President Donald J Trump's leadership you know it's at the end of this little journey kamla Harris as the next president of the United States this is a CBS News special live from CBS News headquarters in New York America decides the vice presidential debate [Music] good evening I'm Nora odonnell and thank you for joining us for tonight's CBS News vice presidential debate we want to welcome our viewers on CBS on other networks here in the US and around the world

we have a consequential night ahead and our focus is the issues that matter to you the voter let's introduce the candidates Minnesota's Democratic governor Tim Walls and Ohio's Republican senator JD Vance tonight meeting for the first time I'm Margaret Brennan in order to have a thoughtful and civil debate these are the rules that both campaigns have agreed to questions will be directed at one candidate who will have two minutes to respond the other candidate will be allowed 2 minutes for rebuttal then each candidate will get another minute to make further points with an additional one

minute each at the discretion of the moderator the primary role of the moderators is to facilit itate the debate between the candidates enforce the rules and provide the candidates with the opportunity to fact check claims made by each other CBS News reserves the right to mute the candidates microphones to maintain decorum we have not shared the questions or topics with the campaigns the stage is set Governor Senator thank you for joining us let's get started tonight our country is facing several unfolding crises the Middle East is on the brink of War Americans are suffering from

the C catastrophic impact of hurricane Helen and now a labor strike as 25,000 Dock Workers from Maine to Texas are picketing we're going to begin tonight with the Middle East Margaret thank you Nora earlier today Iran launched its largest attack yet on Israel but that attack failed thanks to Joint us and Israeli defensive action President Biden has deployed more than 40,000 US military personnel and assets to that region over the past last year to try to prevent a regional War Iran is weakened but the US still considers it the largest state sponsor of terrorism in

the world and it has drastically reduced the time it would take to develop a nuclear weapon it is down now to one or two weeks time Governor walls if you were the final voice in The Situation Room would you support or oppose a preemptive strike by Israel on Iran you have 2 minutes well thank you and thank you for those joining at home tonight uh let's keep in mind where this started October 7th Hamas terrorists uh massacred over 1,400 Israelis and took prisoners uh Iran or I uh Israel's ability to be able to defend itself

is absolutely fundamental getting its uh hostages back fundamental and ending the humanitarian crisis in Gaza but the expansion of Israel and its proxies is an absolute fun fundamental uh necessity for the United States to have the steady leadership there you saw it experien today where along with our uh Israeli partners and our Coalition able to stop the incoming uh attack but what's fundamental here is that steady leadership is going to matter it's clear and the world saw it on that debate stage a few weeks ago a nearly 80-year-old Donald Trump talking about crowd sizes is

not what we need in this moment but it's not just that it's those that were closest to Donald Trump that understand how dangerous he is when the world is this dangerous his chief of staff John Kelly said that he was the most flawed human being he'd ever met and both of his secretaries of defense and his National Security advisers said he should be nowhere near the White House now the person closest to them the to the Donald Trump said he's unfit for the highest office that was Senator Vance what we've seen out of Vice President

Harris is we've seen steady leadership we've seen a calmness that is able to be able to draw on the coalitions to bring them together understanding that our allies matter when our allies see Donald Trump turned towards Vladimir Putin turned towards uh North Korea when we start to see that type of fickleness around holding the coalitions together we will stay committed and as the vice president said today is we will protect our forces and our Allied Forces and there will be consequences governor your time is up Senator Vance the same question would you support or oppose

a preemptive strike by Israel on Iran you have two minutes so Margaret I want to answer the question first of all thanks Governor thanks to CBS for hosting the debate and thanks most importantly the American people who are watching this evening and caring enough about this country to pay attention to this vice presidential debate I want to answer the question but I want to actually give an introduction to myself a little bit cuz I recognize a lot of Americans don't know who either one of us are I was raised in a workingclass family my mother

required food assistance for periods of her life my grandmother required Social Security help to raise me and she raised me in part because my own mother struggled with addiction for a big chunk of my early life I went to college on the GI bill after I enlisted in the Marine Corps and served in Iraq and so I stand here asking to be your vice president with extraordinary gratitude for this country for the American dream that made it possible for me to live my dreams and most importantly I know that a lot of you are worried

about the chaos in the world and the feeling that the American dream is UN attainable I want to try to convince you tonight over the next 90 minutes that if we get better leadership in the white house if we get Donald Trump back in the White House the American dream is going to be attainable once again now to answer this particular question we have to remember that as much as Governor Waltz just accused Donald Trump of being an agent of chaos Donald Trump actually delivered stability in the world and he did it by establishing effective

deterrence people were afraid of stepping out of line Iran which launched this attack has received over a hundred billion and unfrozen assets thanks to the kamla Harris Administration what do they use that money for they use it to buy weapons that they're now launching against our allies and God forbid potentially launching against the United States as well Donald Trump recognized that for people to to fear the United States you needed peace through strength they needed to recognize that if they got out of line the United States Global Leadership would put stability and peace back in

the world now you asked about a preemptive strike Margaret and I want to answer the question look it is up to to Israel what they think they need to do to keep their country safe and we should support our allies wherever they are when they're fighting the bad guys I think that's the right approach to take with the Israel question thank you Senator uh Governor walls do you care to respond to any of the allegations well look Donald Trump was in office we'll sometimes hear a revisionist history but when Donald Trump was in office it

was Donald Trump who we had a coalition of Nations that had boxed Iran's nuclear program in the inability to advance it Donald Trump pulled that program and put nothing else in its place so Iran is closer to a nuclear weapon than they were before because of Donald Trump's fickle leadership and when Iran shot down an American aircraft in international airspace Donald Trump tweeted because that's the standard diplomacy of Donald Trump and when Iranian missiles did fall near US troops and they received traumatic brain injuries Donald Trump wrote it off as headaches look our allies understand

that Donald Trump is fickle he will go to whoever has the most flattery or where it makes sense to him steady leadership like you witnessed today like you witnessed in April both Iranian attacks were repelled our Coalition is strong and we need the steady leadership that KLA Harris is providing Senator Vance uh the US did have a diplomatic deal with Iran to temporarily pause parts of its nuclear program and president Trump did exit that deal he recently said just 5 days ago the US must now make a diplomatic deal with Iran because the consequences are

impossible did he make a mistake you have one minute well first of all Margaret diplomacy is not a dirty word but I think that something that Governor Waltz just said is quite extraordinary you yourself just said Iran is as close to a nuclear weapon today as they have ever been and Governor Walts you blamed Donald Trump who has been the vice president for the last three and a half years and the answer is your running mate not mine Donald Trump consistently made the world more secure now we talk about what the the the sequence of

events that led us to where we are right now and you can't ignore October the 7th which I appreciate Governor Walt's bringing up but when did Iran and Hamas and their proxies attack Israel it was during the administration of Kamala Hera so Governor Waltz can criticize Donald Trump's tweets but effective smart diplomacy and peace through strength is how you bring stability back to a very broken world Donald Trump has already done it once before ask yourself at home when when was the last time I'm 40 years old when was the last time that an American

president didn't have a major conflict breakout the only answer is during the four years that Donald Trump was President gentlemen we have a lot to get to Nora Margaret thank you let's turn now to Hurricane Helen the storm could become one of the deadliest on record more than 160 people are dead and hundreds more are missing scientists say climate change makes these hurricanes larger stronger and more deadly because of the historic rainfall Senator Vance according to CBS News polling seven in 10 Americans and more than 60% of Republicans under the age of 45 favor the

US taking steps to try and reduce climate change Senator what responsibility would the Trump Administration have to try and reduce the impact of climate change I'll give you two minutes sure so first of all let's let's start with the hurricane because it's an unbelievable unspeakable human tragedy I I just saw today actually a photograph of two grandparents on a roof with a six-year-old child and it was the last photograph ever taken to them because the roof collapsed and those innocent people lost their lives and I I'm sure Governor Walts joins me and saying our hearts

go out to those innocent people our prayers go out to them and we want as robust and aggressive as a federal response as we can get to save as many lives as possible and then of course afterwards to help the people in those communities rebuild these are communities that I love some of them I know very personally in Appalachia all across the southeast they need their government to do their job and I I commit that when Donald Trump is president again the government will put the citizens of this country first when they suffer from a

disaster now Nora you asked about climate change I think this this is a very important issue look a lot of people are justifiably worried about all these crazy weather and patterns I think it's important for us first of all to say Donald Trump and I support clean air clean water we want the environment to be cleaner and safer but one of the things that I've noticed some of our Democratic friends talking a lot about is is a concern about carbon emissions this idea that carbon emissions drives all the climate change well let's just say that's

true just for the sake of argument so we're not arguing about Weird Science let's just say that's true well if you believe that what would you what would you want to do the answer is that you'd want to reshore as much American manufacturing as possible and you'd want to produce as much energy as possible in the United States of America because we are the cleanest economy in the entire world what have Comm Harris's policies actually led to more energy production in China more manufacturing overseas more doing business in some of the dirtiest parts of the

entire world when I say that I mean the amount of carbon emissions they're doing per unit of economic output so if we actually care about getting cleaner air and cleaner water the best thing to do is to double down and invest in American workers and the American people and unfortunately Kam Harris has done exactly the opposite Governor walls you have two minutes to respond well we got close to an agreement cuz all those things are happening look first of all it is a horrific tragedy uh with this hurricane and and my heart goes out to

the folks that are down there uh in contact with the governors I serve as co-chair of the Council of Governors as we work together on these emergency managements Governors know no partisanship they work together to all of the governors and the emergency responders are on the ground those happen on the front end the federal government comes in make sure they're there to that we recover but we're still in that phase where we need to make sure that they're staying there are staying focused now look coming back to the climate change issue there's no doubt this

thing roared onto the scene faster and stronger than anything we've seen Senator Vance has said that there's a climate problem in the past Donald Trump called it a hoax and then joke that these things would make more Beach font property to be able to invest in what we've seen out of the Harris uh Administration now the Biden Harris Administration is we've seen this investment we've seen massive Investments the biggest in global history that we've seen in the inflation reduction Act has created jobs all across the country 2000 in Jeffersonville Ohio taking the EV technology that

we invented and making it here 200,000 jobs across the country the largest solar manufacturing plant in North America sets in Minnesota but my Farmers know climate change is real they've seen 500-year droughts 500e floods back to back but what they're doing is adapting and this has allowed them to tell me look I harvest corn I harvest soybean and I harvest wind we are producing more natural gas and more oil at any time than ever have we're also producing more clean energy so the the the solution for us is to continue to move forward that climate

change is real reducing our impact is absolutely critical but this is not a false choice you can do that at the same time you're creating the jobs that we're seeing all across the country that's exactly what this Administration has done we are seeing us becoming an energy superpower for the future not just the current and that's what absolutely makes sense and then we start thinking about how do we mitigate these disasters thank you Senator I want to give you an opportunity to respond there the governor mentioned that President Trump has called climate change a hoax

do you agree well look what the president has said is that if the Democrats in particular kamla Harris and her leadership if they really believe that climate change is serious what they would be doing is more manufacturing and more energy production in the United States of America and that's not what they're doing so clearly KLA Harris herself doesn't believe her own rhetoric on this if she did she would actually agree with Donald Trump's energy policies now something something Governor wal said I think is important to touch upon because when we talk about clean energy I

think that's a slogan that often the Democrats will use here and I'm talking of course about the Democratic Leadership and the real issue is that if you're spending hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars of American taxpayer money on solar panels that are made in China number one you're going to make the economy dirtier we should be making more of those solar panels here in the United States of America some of them are but a lot of them are being made overseas in China especially the components that go into those solar panels so if

you really want to make the environment cleaner you've got to invest in more energy production we haven't built a nuclear facility I think one in the past 40 years natural gas we got to invest more in it KLA Harris has done the opposite that's raised Energy prices and also meant that we're doing time is up Governor would you like to respond well look we're we're producing more natural gas than we ever have there's no moratorium on that we're producing more oil but the fol know and my like I said again these are not liberal folks

these are not folks that are green New Deal folks these are farmers that have been drought one year massive flooding the next year they understand that it makes sense look our number one export cannot be top soil from erosion from these massive storms we saw it in Minnesota this summer and thinking about how do we respond to that we're thinking ahead on this and what KLA Harris has been able to do in Minnesota we're starting to weatherproof some of these things the infrastructure law that was passed allows us to think about mitigation in the future

how do we make sure that we're protecting by burying our power lines how do we make sure that we're protecting lak fronts and things that we're seeing more and more of but to call it a hoax and to take the oil company Executives to maral Lago say give me money for my campaign and I'll let you do whatever you want we can be smarter about that and an all above energy policy is exactly what she's doing creating those jobs right here Governor your time is up the overwhelming consensus among scientists is that earth's climate is

warming at an unprecedented rate Margaret thank you Nora we're going to turn now to immigration the crisis at the US Mexico border consistently ranks as one of the top issue for American voters Senator Vance your campaign is pledging to carry out the largest mass deportation plan in American history and to use the US military to do so could you be more specific about exactly how this will work for example would you Deport parents who have entered the US illegally and separate them from any of their children who were born on us soil you have two

minutes so first of all Margaret before we talk about deportations we have to stop the bleeding we have a historic immigration crisis because KLA Harris started and said that she wanted to undo all of Donald Trump's border policies 94 executive orders suspending deportations decriminalizing illegal aliens uh massively increasing the asylum fraud that exists in our system that has opened the floodgates and what it's meant is that a lot of fit and all is coming into our country I had a mother who struggled with opioid addiction and has gotten clean I don't want people who are

struggling with addiction to be deprived of their second chance because kamla Harris l in fit andol into our communities at record levels so you've got to stop the bleeding you've got to re-implement Donald Trump's border policies build the wall reimplement deportations and that gets me to your point Margaret about what do we actually do so we've got 20 25 million illegal aliens who are here in the country what do we do with them I think the first thing that we do is we start with the criminal migrants about a million of those people have committed

some form of crime in addition to crossing the border illegally I think you start with deportations on those folks and then I think you make it harder for illegal aliens to undercut the wages of American workers a lot of people will go home if they can't work for less than minimum wage in our own country and by the way that'll be really good for our workers who just want to earn a fair wage for doing a good day's work and the final Point Margaret is you ask about family separation right now in this country Margaret

we have 32,000 children that the Department of Homeland Security has effectively lost some of them have been sex trafficked some of them hopefully are homes with their families some of them have been used as drug trafficking mules the real family separation policy in this country is unfortunately kamla Harris's wide openen Southern border and I'd ask my fellow Americans to remember when she came into office office she said she was going to do this real leadership would be saying you know what I screwed up we're going to go back to Donald Trump's border policies I wish

that she would do that it would be good for all of us governor do you care to respond to any of those specific allegations including that the vice president is quote letting in fenel and using kids as drug mules among other things children the drug mu is not true but I will say about this about the fenel because this is a crisis of this the opioid crisis and the good news on this is is the last 12 months saw the largest decrease in opioid deaths in our nation's history 30% decrease in Ohio but there's still

more work to do but let's go back to this on immigration KLA Harris was the Attorney General of the largest state and a border state in California she's the only person in this race who prosecuted transnational gangs for human trafficking and Drug interventions but look we all want to solve the I most of us want to solve this and that is the United States Congress that's the border patrol agents that's the chamber Commerce that's most Americans out here that's why we had the fairest and the toughest bill on immigration that this nation seen it was

crafted by a conservative senator from Oklahoma James Langford I know him he's super conservative but he's a man of principle wants to get it done Democrats and Republicans worked on this piece of legislation the border patrol said this is what we need in here these are the experts and the Chamber of Commerce and the Wall Street Journal said pass this thing Comm Harris helped get there 1,500 new border agents detection for drugs doj money to speed up these uh the adjudications on this just what America wants but as soon as I was getting ready to

pass and actually tackle this Donald Trump said no told them to vote against it because it gives him a campaign issue it gives him to what would Donald Trump talk about if we actually did some of these things and they need to be done by the legislature you can't just do this through the executive branch so look we have the options to do this Donald Trump had four years he had four years to do this and he promised you America how easy it would be I'll build you a big beautiful wall and Mexico will pay

for it less than 2% of that wall got built and Mexico didn't pay a dime but here we are again nine years after he came down that escalator dehumanizing people and telling them what he was going to do as far as a deportation plan at one point Senator Vance said it was so unworkable to be laughable so that's where we're at pass the Bill she'll sign it Governor your time is up uh it's senator monor the question was will you separate parents from their children even if their kids are US citizens you have one minute

Margaret my point is that we already have massive child separations thanks to kamla Harris's open border and I didn't accuse kamla Harris of inviting drug mules I said that she enabled the Mexican drug cartels to operate freely in this country and we know that they use children as drug mules and it is a disgrace and it has to stop look I think what Tim said just doesn't pass the smell test for three years KLA Harris went out bragging that she was going to undo Donald Trump's border policy she did exactly that we had a record

number of illegal Crossings we had a record number of fentol coming into our country and now now that she's running for president or a few months before she says that somehow she got religion and cared a lot about a piece of legislation the only thing that she did when she became the vice president when she became the appointed borders are was to undo 94 Donald Trump executive actions that open the Border this problem is leading to massive problems in the United States of America parents who can't afford health care schools that are overwhelmed it's got

to stop and it will when Donald Trump is President Senator your time is up Governor what about our CBS News polling which does show that a majority of Americans more than 50% support Mass deportations look we fixed this issue with a bill that is necessary but the issue on this is this is what happens when you don't want to solve it you demonize it and we saw this and and Senator Vance and it surprises me on this talking about and saying I will create stories to bring attention to this that vilified a large number of

people who were here legally in the community of Springfield the Republican Governor said it's not true don't do it there's consequences for this there's consequence we could come together Senator Langford did it we could come together and solve this if we didn't let Donald Trump continue to make it an issue and the consequences in Springfield were the governor had to send state laww enforcement to escort kindergarteners to school I believe Senator Vance wants to solve this but by standing with Donald Trump and not working together to find a solution it becomes a talking point and

when it becomes a talking point like this we dehumanize and villainize other human beings T Tim governor governor your time is up Senator I'll give you one minute but I let me just ask you the question first uh the governor has made the point and I think as a sitting lawmaker you know that Congress controls the perrings and any funding so you have said repeatedly that Donald Trump would through executive action solve this do you disagree that Congress controls the perrings and would need to support many of the changes that you would actually want to

implement you have one minute look marget first of all the gross majority of what we need to do with the southern border is just empowering law enforcement to do their job I've been to the southern border more than our borders are accom Harris has been and it's actually heartbreaking because the border patrol agents they just want to be empowered to do their job of course additional resources would help but most of this is about the president and the vice president empowering our law enforcement to say if you try to come across the border illegally you've

got to stay in Mexico you've got to go back through proper channels now Governor Waltz broke brought up the community of Springfield and he's very worried about the things that I've said in Springfield look in Springfield Ohio and in communities all across this country you've got schools that are overwhelmed you've got hospitals that are overwhelmed you've got housing that is totally unaffordable because we brought in millions of illegal immigrants to compete with Americans for scarce homes the people that I'm most worried about in Springfield Ohio are the American citizens who have had their lives destroyed

by kamla Harris's open border it is a disgrace to and I actually think I agree with you I think you want to solve this problem but I don't think that kamla Harris does Senator your time is up Governor you have one minute to respond yeah well it it is law enforcement that asked for the bill they helped craft it they're the ones that supported it it was that's because they know we need to do this look this issue of continuing to bring this up of not dealing with it of blaming migrants for everything on housing

we could talk a little bit about Wall Street speculators buying up housing and making them less affordable but it becomes a blame look this bill also gives the money necessary to adjudicate I agree it should not take 7 years for an asylum claim to be done this Bill gets it done in 90 days then you start to make a difference in this and you start to adhere to what we know American principles I don't talk about my faith a lot but Matthew 2540 talks about to the least amongst us you do un to me I

think that's true of most Americans they simply want order to it this bill does it it's funded it's supported by the people who do it and it lets us keep our dignity about how we treat other people thank you governor and just to clarify for our viewers Springfield Ohio does have a large number of Haitian migrants who have legal status temporary protected status Senator we have so much to get to I think it's important because turn out of the economy thank Margaret the the the rules were that you guys weren going to fact check and

since you're factchecking me I think it's important to say what's actually going on so there's an application called the cbp1 app where you can go on as an illegal migrant apply for Asylum or apply for parole and be granted legal status at the wave of a comma Harris open border wand that is not a person coming in applying for a green card and waiting for 10 years that is the facilitation of illegal immigration Margaret by our senator for describing the legal process we have so much to getor those laws have been on the book since

1990 thank you gentlemen the C app has not been on the books since 1990 it's something that Crea gentlemen you the audience can't hear you because your mics are cut we have so much we want to get to thank you for explaining the legal process Nora thank you Margaret the economy is a top concern for voters each of your campaigns has releaseed an economic plan so let's talk about the specifics Governor walls vice president Harris unveiled a plan that includes billions in tax credits for Manufacturing Housing and A Renewed child tax credit the Wharton School

says your proposals will in increase the nation's deficit by $1.2 trillion how would you pay for that without ballooning the deficit Governor I'll give you two minutes yeah thank you and and KLA Harrison I do believe in the middle class because that's where we come from we both grew up in that we understand so those of you out there listening tonight you're hearing a lot of stuff back and forth and it's good it's healthy that's what this is supposed to happen you should be listening how's this going to impact me the Bold forward plan that

Comm Harris put uh out there is one is talking about this housing issue the one thing is there's 3 million new houses proposed under this plan with down payment assistance on the front end to get you in a house a house is much more than just an asset to be traded somewhere it's foundational to where you're at and then making sure that the things you buy every day whether they be prescription drugs or other things that there's fairness in that look the $35 insulin is a good thing but it cost $5 to make insulin they

were charging $800 before this law went into effect as far as the housing goes I've seen it in Minnesota 12% more houses in Minneapolis prices went down on rent 4% it's working and then making sure tax cuts go to the middle class $6,000 tile tax credit we have one in Minnesota reduces uh childhood poverty by a third we save money in the long run and we do the right thing for families and then getting businesses off the ground the law as it stands right now is $5,000 tax credit per small business increasing that to 50,000

now this is a philosophical difference between us Donald Trump made a promise and I'll give you this he kept it he took folks to Mar Lago he said you're rich help him give you a tax cut he gave the tax cuts that predominantly went to the Top Class what happened there was an $8 trillion increase in the national debt the largest ever now he's proposing a 20% consumption or sales tax on everything we bring in everyone agrees including businesses it would be destabilizing it it would increase inflation and potentially lead to a recession look this

is simple for you where are we going KLA Harris has said to do the thing she wants to do we'll just ask the wealthiest to pay their fair share when you do that our system works best more people are participating in it and folks have the things that they need Senator I want to give you a moment to respond on that but similarly the Wharton School has done an analysis of the Trump plan and says it would increase the nation's deficit by 5.8 trillion my question is the same for you how do you pay for

all that without ballooning the deficit I'll give you two minutes well first of all you're going to hear a lot from Tim walz this evening and you just heard it in the answer a lot of what comma Harris proposes to do and some of it I'll be honest with you it even sounds pretty good here's what you won't hear is that kamla Harris has already done it because she's been the vice president for three and a half years she had the opportunity to enact all of these great policies and what she's actually done instead is

Drive the cost of food Higher by 25% Drive the cost of housing Higher by about 60% open the American southern border and make middle class life unaffordable for a large number of Americans if KLA Harris has such great plans for how to address middle class problems then she ought to do them now not when asking for promotion but in the job the American people gave her three and a half years ago and the fact that she isn't tells you a lot about how much you can trust her actual plans now Donald Trump's economic plan is

not just a plan but it's also a record a lot of those same economists attack Donald Trump's plans and they have phds but they don't have common sense and they don't have wisdom because Donald Trump's e IC policies delivered the highest take-home pay in a generation in this country 1.5% inflation and to boot peace and security all over the world so when people say that Donald Trump's economic plan doesn't make sense I say look at the record he delivered Rising take home pay for American workers now Tim admirably admits that they want to undo the

Trump tax cuts but if you look at what was so different about Donald Trump's tax cuts even from previous Republican tax cut plans is that a lot of those sources went to giving more take-home pay to middle class and workingclass Americans it was passed in 2017 and you saw an American economic boom unlike we've seen in a generation in this country that is a record that I'm proud to run on and we're going to get back to that Common Sense wisdom so that you can afford to live the American dream again I know a lot

of you are struggling I know a lot of you are worried about paying the bills it's going to stop when Donald Trump brings back common sense to this country governor do you want to respond to that what has Comm has done for the middle class yeah well KL Harris's day one was Donald Trump's failure on Co that led to the collapse of our economy we were already before Co in a in a manufacturing recession but 10 million people out of work largest percentage since a Great Depression 9 million jobs closed on that that was day

one whether it was the infrastructure act or other things we mve now you you made a question about experts said this I've made a note of this economists don't can't be trusted science can't be trusted National Security folks can't be trusted look if you're going to be president you don't have all the answers Donald Trump believes he does my Pro tip of the day is this if you need heart surgery listen to the people at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester Minnesota not Donald Trump and the same thing goes with this and I ask you out

there teachers nurses truck drivers or whatever how is it fair that you're paying your taxes every year and Donald Trump hasn't paid any federal tax T the last 15 years in the last year as president that's what's wrong with the system there's a way around it and he's bragged about that we're just asking for fairness in it and that's all you want you have a minute you know Governor you say trust the experts but those same experts for 40 years said that if we shipped our manufacturing base off to China we'd get cheaper Goods they

lied about that they said if we chap shipped our industrial base off to other countries to Mexico and elsewhere it would make the middle class stronger they were wrong about that they were wrong about the idea that if we made America less self-reliant less self productive in our own nation that it would somehow make us better off and they were wrong about it and for the first time in a generation Donald Trump had the wisdom and the courage to say to that bipartisan consensus we're not doing it anymore we're bringing American manufacturing back we're unleashing

American Energy we're going to make more of our own stuff and this isn't just an economic issue I I've got three beautiful little kids at home 7 four and two and I I love them very much and I hope they're in bed right now but look so many of the drugs the Pharmaceuticals that we put in the bodies of our children are manufactured by Nations that hate us this has to stop and we're not going to stop it by listening to experts we're going to stop it by listening to Common Sense wisdom which is what

Donald Trump governed on Senator your time up Governor walls can you address that I mean voters say they trust Donald Trump on the economy more why well if if you're listening tonight and and you want billionaires to get tax cuts you heard what the numbers were um look I'm a union guy on this I I'm not a guy who wanted to ship things overseas but I understand that look we produce soybeans and corn we need to have Fair trading partners that's something that we believe in I think the thing that uh most concerns me on

this is is Donald Trump was the guy who created the largest trade deficit in American history with China so the rhetoric is good much of what the senator said right there I'm in agreement with him on this I watched it happened too I watched it to my communities and we talk about that but we had people undercutting the right to collectively bargain we had right to work states made it more difficult we had companies that were willing to ship it over and we saw people profit folks that folks that are venture capital in some cases

putting money into companies that were overseas we're in agreement that we bring those home the issue is Donald Trump is talking about it K Harris has a record 250,000 more manufacturing jobs just in out of the IRA may I respond to that yes so so appreciate that so if you notice what governor Waltz just did is he said first of all Donald Trump has to listen to The Experts and then when he acknowledge that the experts screwed up he said well Donald Trump didn't do nearly as as good of a job as the St did

so what Tim Waltz is doing and I and I honestly Tim I I think you got a tough job here because you've got to play whack-a-mole you've got to pretend that Donald Trump didn't deliver Rising take-home pay which of course he did you've got to pretend that Donald Trump didn't deliver lower inflation which of course he did and then you simultaneously got to defend KLA Harris's atrocious economic record which has made gas groceries and housing unaffordable for American citizens I was raised by a woman who would sometimes go into medical debt so that she could

put food on the table table in our household I know what it's like to not be able to afford the things that you need to afford we can do so much better to all of you watching we can get back to an America that's affordable again we just got to get back to Common Sense economic principles I hope we have a conversation on Healthcare then Senator Governor please thank you Margaret we have a lot to get to ahead gentlemen on many topics but right now I want to talk about personal qualifications um the vice president

is often the last voice the president hears before making consequential decisions we want to ask you about your leadership qualities Governor walls you said you were in Hong Kong during the deadly tenan Square protest in the spring of 1989 but Minnesota Public Radio and other media Outlets are reporting that you actually didn't travel to Asia until August of that year can you explain that discrepancy your well and to the folks out there didn't get at the top of this look I I grew up in small rural Nebraska uh town of 400 town that you rode

your bike with your buddies till the street lights come on and I'm proud of that service I joined the National Guard at 17 worked on Family Farms and then I used the GI bill to become a teacher passionate about it a young teacher uh my first year out I got the opportunity in the summer of ' 89 uh to travel to China 35 years ago be able to do that I came back home and then started a program to take young people there we would take basketball B Teams we would take baseball teams we would

take dancers and we would go back and forth to China the issue for that was was to try and learn now look my community knows who I am they saw where I was at they look I I will be the first to tell you I have poured my heart into my community I've tried to do the best I can but I've not been perfect and I'm a knucklehead at times but it's always been about that those same people elected me to Congress for 12 years and in Congress I was one of the most bipartisan people

working on things like Farm bills that we got done working on veterans benefits and then the people of Minnesota were able to elect me to Governor twice so look my commitment has been from the beginning to make sure that I'm there for the people to make sure that I get this right I will say more than anything many times I uh I will talk a lot I will get caught up in the rhetoric um but being there the impact it made the difference it made in my life I learned a lot about China I hear

the critiques of this I would make the case that Donald Trump should have come on of those trips with us I guarantee you he wouldn't be uh praising XI jingping about Co and I guarantee you he wouldn't start a trade war that he ends up losing so this is about trying to understand the world it's about trying to do the best you can for your community and then it's putting yourself out there and letting your folks understand what it is my commitment whether it be through teaching which I was good at or whether it was

being a good soldier or was being a good member of Congress those are the things that I think are the values that people care about Governor just to follow up on that the question was can you explain the discrepancy all I said on this was is I got there that summer and misspoke on this so I I will just that's what I've said so I was in Hong Kong and China during the Democracy protest went in and from that I learned a lot of what needed to be in in governance thank you Governor Senator Vance

in 2016 you called your running mate Donald Trump unfit for the nation's highest office and you said he could be America's Hitler I know you've said you've been asked many times and you've said you regret those comments and explained you then voted for Donald Trump in 2020 but the Washington Post reported new messages last week in which you also disparaged Trump's economic record while he was President writing to someone in 2020 quote Trump thoroughly failed to deliver his economic populism you're now as running mate and you've shifted many of your policy stances to align with

his if you become vice president why should Americans trust that you will give Donald Trump the advice he needs to hear and not just the advice he wants to hear you have two minutes well first of all Margaret because I've always been open and sometimes of course I've disagreed with the president but I've also been extremely open about the fact that I was wrong about Donald Trump I was wrong first of all because I believed some of the media stories that turned out to be dishonest Fabrications of his record but most importantly Donald Trump delivered

for the American people rising wages Rising take-home pay an economy that worked for normal Americans a secure Southern border a lot of things frankly that I didn't think he'd be able to deliver on and yeah when you screw up when you misspeak when you get something wrong and you change your mind you ought to be honest with the American people about it's one of the reasons Margaret why I've done so many interviews is because I think it's important to actually explain to the American people where I come down on the issues and what change now

you you pointed out to messages from 2020 Margaret I've been extremely consistent that I think there were a lot of things that we could have done better in the Trump Administration the first round if Congress was doing its job I I strongly believe and I've been a United States Senator that Congress is not just a highclass debating Society it's not just a forum for senators and congressmen to whine about problems it's a for to govern so there were a lot of things on the border on tariffs for example where I think that we could have

done so much more if the Republican Congress and the Democrats in Congress had been a little bit better about how they governed the country they were so obsessed with impeaching Donald Trump they couldn't actually govern I want to talk about this tariff issue in particular uh Margaret because you know Tim just accused this of being a national sales tax look the one thing and you're not you know probably surprised to hear me praising Joe Biden but the one thing that Joe Biden did is he continued some of the Trump tariffs that protected American manufacturing jobs

and it's the one issue the most pro-worker part of the Biden Administration it's the one issue where kamla Harris has run away from Joe Biden's record think about this if you're trying to employ slave laborers in China at $3 a day you're going to do that and undercut the wages of American workers unless our country stands up for itself and says you're not accessing our markets unless you're paying middle- class Americans a fair wage Senator your time is up Nora thank you now to the issue of Reproductive Rights Governor walls after Row versus Wade was

overturned you signed a bill into law that made Minnesota one of the least restrictive states in the nation when it comes to abortion former president Trump said in the last debate that you believe abortion quote in the ninth month is absolutely fine yes or no is that what you support I'll give you two minutes that's not what the bill says but look this this issue is what's on everyone's mind Donald Trump put this all into motion he brags about how great it was that he put the judges in and overturned Row versus weight 52 years

of personal autonomy and then he tells us oh we send it to the states it's a beautiful thing Amanda zorski would disagree with you on it's a beautiful thing a Young Bride in Texas waiting for their child at 18 weeks she has a complication a tear in the membrane she needs to go in the medical care at that point needs to be decided by the doctor and that would have been an abortion but in Texas that would have put them in legal Jeopardy she went home got sepsis nearly died dies and now she may have

difficulty having children or in Kentucky Hadley Duval a 12-year-old child raped and impregnated by her stepfather those are horrific now when God asked about that Senator Vance said two wrongs don't make a right there is no right in this so in Minnesota what we did was restore Row versus Wade we made sure that we put women in charge of their Healthcare but look this is not where if you don't know Amanda or Hadley you soon will their project 2025 is going to have a registry of pregnancies it's going to make it more difficult if not

impossible to get contraception and limit access if not eliminate access to infertility treatments for so many of you out there listening me included infertility treatments are why I have a child that's nobody else's business but those things are being proposed and the catchall on this is is well the states will decide what's right for Texas might not be right for Washington that's not how this works this is basic human right we have seen maternal mortality Skyrocket in Texas outpacing many other countries in the world this is about Healthcare in Minnesota we are ranked first in

healthcare for a reason we trust women We Trust doctors Senator do you want to respond to the governor's claim will you create a federal pregnancy monitoring agency no Nora C certainly we won't and I want to talk about this issue because I know a lot of Americans care about it and I know a lot lot of Americans don't agree uh with everything that I've ever said on this topic and you know I I grew up in a workingclass family in a neighborhood where I knew a lot of young women who had unplanned pregnancies and decided

to terminate those pregnancies because they feel like they didn't have any other options and you know I I I one of them is actually very dear to me and I know she's watching tonight and I love you and she told me something a couple years ago that she felt like if she hadn't had that abortion that it would have destroyed her life because she was in an abusive relationship and I think that what I take from that as a republican who proudly wants to protect innocent life in this country who proudly wants to protect the

vulnerable is that my party we've got to do so much better of a job at earning the American people's trust back on this issue where they frankly just don't trust us and I think that's one of the things that Donald Trump and I are endeavoring to do I want us as a Republican party to be pro- family in the fullest sense of the word I want us to support fertility treatments I want us to make it E easier for moms to afford to have babies I want it to make it easier for young families to

afford a home so they can afford a place to raise that family and I think there's so much that we can do on the public policy front just to give women more options now now of course Donald Trump has been very clear that on the abortion policy specifically that we have a big country and it's diverse and California has a different viewpoint on this than Georgia Georgia has a different Viewpoint from Arizona and the proper way to handle this as Messy as democracy sometimes is is to let voters make these decisions let the individual states

make their abortion policy and I think that's what makes the most sense in a very big a very diverse and let's be honest sometimes a very very messy and divided country Governor would you like to respond and also answer the question about restrictions yeah well the question got asked and Donald Trump made the accusation that wasn't true about Minnesota well let me tell you about this idea that there's diverse States there's a young woman named Amber Thurman she happened to be in Georgia a restrictive State because of that she had to travel a long distance

to North Carolina to try and get her care Amber Thurman died in that Journey back and forth the fact of the matter is how can we as a nation say that your life and your rights as basic as the right to control your own body is determined on geography there's a very real chance had Amber Thurman lived in Minnesota she would be alive today that's why the restoration of Row versus Wade when you listen to vice president Harris talk about this subject and you hear me talk about it you hear us talking exactly the same

Donald Trump is trying to figure out how to get the political right of this I agree with a lot of what Senator Vance said about what's happening his running mate though does not and that's the problem Governor your time is up Senator let me ask you about that he mentioned was I think referring to a national ban in the past you have supported a federal ban on abortion after 15 weeks in fact you said if someone can't support legislation like that quote you are making the United States the most barbaric pro-abortion regime anywhere in the

entire world my question is why have you changed your position well Nora first of all I never supported a national ban I did during when I was running for Senate in 2022 talk about setting some minimum National Standard for example we have a partial birth abortion ban in this in place in this country at the federal level I don't think anybody's trying to get rid of that or at least I hope not though I know that Democrats have taken a very radical pro-abortion stance but Nora you know one of the things that changed is in

the state of Ohio we had a referendum in 2023 and the people of Ohio voted overwhelmingly by the way against my position and I think that what I learned from that Nora is that we've got to do a better job at winning back people's trust so many young women would love to have families so many young women also see an unplanned pregnancy as something that's going to destroy their livelihood destroy their education destroy their relationships and we have got to earn people's trust back and that's why Donald Trump and I are committed to pursuing pro-

family policies making child care more accessible making fertility treatments more accessible because we've got to do a better job at that and that's what real leadership is Governor your response I I'm going to respond on the on the pro-abortion piece of that no we're not we're pro women we're pro freedom to make your own choice we know what the implications are to not be that women having miscarriages women not getting the care physicians feeling like they may be prosecuted for providing that care and as far as making sure that we're educating our children and giving

them options Minnesota's a state one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates we understand that too we know that the options need to be available and we make that true we also make it we're a top three state for the best place to raise children but these two things to try and say that we're we're pro- children but we don't like this or or you guys are pro-abortion that's not the case at all we are pro- freedoms for women to make their choices and we're going and kamla Harris is making the case to make options for

children more affordable a $6,000 child tax credit but we're not going to base out on the backs of making someone like Amber Thurman Drive 600 miles to try and get Healthcare senator may I respond to that first of all Governor I agree with you Amber Thurman should still be alive and there are a lot of people who should still be alive and I certainly wish that she was and maybe you're you're free to disagree with me on this and explain this to me but as I read the Minnesota law that you signed into into into

into law the statute that you signed into law it says that a doctor who presides over an abortion where the baby survives the doctor is under no obligation to provide life-saving care to a baby who survives aot late term abortion that is I think whether you're pro-choice or pro-abortion that is fundamentally barbaric and that's why I use that word Norah is because some of what we've seen do you want to force Catholic Hospitals to perform abortions against their will will because KLA Harris is supported suing Catholic nuns uh to violate their freedom of conscience we

can be a big and diverse country where we're respect people's freedom of conscience and make the country more probaby and pro family but please yes Governor please respond look this is one where there's always something there this is a very simple proposition these are women's decisions to make about their Healthcare decisions and the Physicians who know best when they need to do this trying to distort the way a law is written to try and make a point that's not it at all what was I wrong about Governor I please tell me what was that is

not the way the law is written look I I've given I've given this advice on a lot of things that getting involved getting that's been misread and it was fact checked at the last debate but the point on this is is there's a continuation of these guys to try and tell women or to get involved I use this line on this just mind your own business on this things worked best when Row versus Wade was in place when we do a restoration of row that works best that doesn't preclude us from increasing funding for children

ites doesn't increase us from making sure that once that child's born like in Minnesota they get meals they get early childhood education they get health care so the hiding behind we're going to do all these other things when you're not proposing them in your budget KL Harris is proposing them she's proposing all those things to make life easier for families I asked a specific question Governor you gave me a slogan as a response it's not the case it's not true that's not what the law says so they fact checked it with President Trump gentlemen there's

a lot to discuss we have to move on and we're we're going to be right back with much more of the CBS News vice presidential debate in just a moment [Music] welcome back to the CBS News vice presidential debate we want to turn now to America's gun violence epidemic the leading cause of death for children and teens in America is by Firearms Senator Vance you oppose most gun legislation that Democrats claim would curb gun violence you oppose red flag gun laws and legislation to ban certain semi-automatic rifles including AR-15s so let me ask you earlier

this year for the first first time the parents of a school shooter were convicted of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to 10 years in prison do you think holding parents responsible could curb mass shootings I'll give you two minutes yeah well nor on that particular case I don't know the full details but I certainly trust local law enforcement and local authorities to make those decisions I think in some cases the answer is going to be yes and in some cases the answer is going to be no and the details really matter here of course for example

if a kid steals a gun that's going to be different than if a parent hands over a gun knowing that their kid is potentially dangerous look I I want to just sort of speak as a father of three beautiful little kids and our our oldest is now in second grade and like a lot of parents we send our kids to school with such hope and such joy and such Pride at their little faces on the first day of school and we know unfortunately that a lot of kids are going to experience this terrible epidemic of

gun violence and of course our hearts go out to the families that are affected by this terrible stuff and we do have to do better and I think that governor walz and I actually probably agree that we need to do better on this the question is just how do we actually do it now here here's something that really bothers me and worries me about this epidemic of violence the gross majority close to 90% in some of the statistics I've seen of the gun violence in this country is committed with illegally obtained firearms and while we're

on that topic we know that thanks to kamla Harris's open border we've seen a massive influx in the number of illegal guns run by the Mexican drug cartel so that number then the amount of illegal guns in our country is higher today than it was three and a half years ago but what do we do about the schools what do we do to protect our kids and I think the answer is and I and I say this not loving the answer because I don't want my kids to go to school in an in a in

a school that feels unsafe or where there are visible signs of security but I unfortunately think that we have to increase Security in our schools we have to make the doors lock better we have to make the doors stronger we've got to make the windows stronger and of course we've got to increase school resource officers because the idea that that we can magically wave a wand and take guns out of the hands of bad guys it just doesn't fit with recent experience so we've got to make our school safer and I think we've got to

have some common sense bipartisan solutions for how to do that Governor you have two minutes well I think all the parents watching tonight this is just your biggest nightmare look I got a I got a 17-year-old and uh and he witnessed a shooting at a community center playing volleyball those things don't leave you as a member of Congress I sat in my office surrounded by dozen of the Sandy Hook parents and they were looking at my seven-year-old picture on the wall their seven-year-old were dead and they were asking us to do something and look I'm

a Hunter I own firearms the vice president is we understand that the Second Amendment is there but our first responsibility is to our kids to figure this out in Minnesota we've enacted enhanced red flag laws enhanced background checks and we can start to get data but here's the problem if we really want to solve this we've got folks that won't allow research to be even done on gun violence and this idea that we should just live with it and I and I here's what I do think that this is a good start to the conversation

I 100% believe that Senator Vance hates it when these kids it it's abor and it breaks your heart I I agree with that but it's that's not far enough when we know they things that worked I've spent time in Finland and seen some finish schools they don't have this happen even though they have a high gun ownership rate in the country there are reasonable things that we can do to make a difference it's not infringing on your second amendment and the idea to have some of these weapons out there it just doesn't make any sense

kamla Harris as an attorney general worked on this issue she knows that it's there no one's trying to scare monger and say we're taking your guns but I ask all of you out there do you want your schools hardened to look like a fort is that is that what we have to go when we know there's countries around the world that their children aren't practicing these types of drills they're being kids we owe it to them to get a fix these are things that shouldn't be that difficult you can still keep your firearms and we

can make a difference we have to if you're listening tonight this breaks your heart Senator Tim first of all I didn't know that your 17-year-old witness is shooting and I'm sorry about that and I hope doing okay Christ have mercy uh it is it is awful and I I appreciate what what Tim said actually about Finland because I do think it illustrates some of the frankly we are different between our own country's gun violence problem and and Finland is okay first of all we have way higher rates of mental health abuse or mental health um

substance abuse we have way higher rates of depression way higher rates of anxiety we unfortunately have a mental health crisis in this country that I really do think that we need to get to the root causes of because I don't think it's the whole reason why we have such a bad gun violence problem but I do think it's a big piece of it another driver of the gun violence epidemic especially that affecting our kids it doesn't earn as many headlines but is the terrible gun violence problem in a lot of our big cities and this

is why we have to empower law enforcement to arrest the bad guys put them away and take gun offenders off the streets I think there's a whole host of things that we can do here but I do think at our schools we've got to talk about more security Senator thank you Governor you previously opposed an assault weapons ban but it only later in your political career did you change your position why yeah I sat in that office with those Sandy Hook parents I become friends with school comps I've seen it look the NRA I was

the NRA guy for a long time they used to teach guns safety I'm of an age where my shotgun was in my car so I could feasant hunt after football practice that's not where we live today and several things I want to mention on this is talking about cities and where it's at the number one where the most firearm deaths happen in Minnesota are rural suicides and we have an epidemic of children getting guns and shooting themselves and so we have and we should look at all of the issues making sure folks have healthare and

all that but I want to be very careful this idea of stigmatizing mental health just because you have a mental health issue doesn't mean you're violent and I think what we end up doing is we start looking for a scapegoat sometimes it just is the guns it's just the guns and and there are things that you can do about it but I do think that this is one and I think this is a healthy conversation I think there's a capacity to find Solutions on this that work protect Second Amendment protect our children that's our priority

gentlemen thank you Margaret thank you Nora let's turn now to the top contributor to inflation the high cost of housing and rent there's a shortage of more than 4 million homes in the United States and that contributes to the high housing prices Governor walls the Harris campaign promises a $25,000 down payment assistance for firsttime home buyers and a $10,000 tax credit they also promise to build 3 million new homes where are you building these homes and won't handing out that kind of money just drive up prices higher no it's not handing out we have first

let me say this this issue of Housing and I think those of you listening on this the problem we've had is that we've got a lot of folks that see housing as another commodity it can be bought up it can be shifted it can be moved around those are not folks living in those houses those are you listening tonight that house is a big deal I bought and owned one house in my life my mom still lives in the house where I was and when I think of a house I'm thinking of Christmas services after

midnight mass where you go with your family we need to make it more affordable and one of the things as I said this program that the vice president is is uh pushing forward and bringing a new way of approaching this is something we're doing in Minnesota from that lead we in the state invested in making sure our housing was the biggest investment that we'd ever made in housing it starts to make it easier we cut some of the red tape local folks look we can't do it at the federal level but local folks make it

easier to build those homes and then that down payment assistance I can tell all of you out there one of the certainly for me using the GI bill was one thing but a Veteran's Home Loan the big thing about a veteran's home loan is you don't have to pay the down payment those are things that make it there now look you're going to pay it back and you're going to pay your mortgage those are things that we know in the long run the appreciated value the generational wealth that's created from it and I will give

Minneapolis an example Minneapolis is the one city where we've seen the lowest inflation rates we've seen a 12% increase in stock because we stri put some of these things in and we're implementing a state program to make sure we give some of that down payment assistance we get it back from people because here's what we know people with stable housing end up with stable jobs people with stable housing have their kids able to be able to get to school all of those things in the long run end up saving our money and that's the thing

that I think we should be able to find some common ground in but we can't blame uh immigrants for the only reason that's not the case it's happening in many cities the fact of the matter is is that we don't have enough naturally affording uh affordable housing but we can make sure that the government's there to help Kickstart it create that create that uh base Governor your time is up Senator Vance uh on as far as your campaign's position the promise is to seize Federal lands to build homes remove regulation provide tax breaks and cut

back on immigration which you say pushes up prices where are you going to build all the new homes you're promising and what part of any of this plan will provide immediate relief you have two minutes well first of all uh T Tim just said something that I agree with we don't want to blame immigrants for higher housing prices but we do want to blame kamla Harris for letting in millions of illegal aliens into this country which does drive up cost him 25 million illegal aliens competing with Americans for scarce homes is one of the most

significant drivers of home prices in the country it's why we have massive increases in home prices that have happened right alongside massive increases in illegal alien alien populations under kamla Harris's leadership now Tim just mentioned a bunch of ideas now some of those ideas I actually think are halfway decent and some of them I disagree with but the most important thing here is kamla Harris is not running as a newcomer to politics she is the sitting vice president if she wants to enact all of these policies to make housing more affordable I invite her to

use the office that the americ American people already gave her not sit around and campaign and do nothing while Americans find the American dream of homeownership completely unaffordable now you asked Margaret what would immediately change the equation for American citizens if you lower energy prices as Donald Trump says drill baby drill one of the biggest drivers of housing costs aside from illegal immigration is think about it if a truck drivers paying 40% more for diesel then the lumber he's delivering to the job site to build the house is also Al going to become a lot

more expensive if we open up American Energy you will get immediate pricing release relief for American citizens not by the way just in housing but in a whole host of other economic Goods too Senator Vance you still have 23 seconds there do you want to answer where Governor we will get to you in a moment but Senator where are you going to seize the federal lands can you clarify well what Donald Trump has said is we have a lot of federal lands that aren't being used for anything they're not being used for National Park they're

not being used and they could be places where we build a lot of Housing and I do think that we should be opening up building in this country we have a lot of land that could be used we have a lot of Americans that need homes we should be kicking out illegal immigrants who are competing for those homes and we should be building more homes for the American citizens who deserve to be here Senator your time is up uh Governor I I do want to let you respond to the allegation that the vice president is

letting in well of course that's not true and again you have the facts I guess agreed not to fact check I'll check it that look Crossings are down compared to When Donald Trump left office but it's again blaming and and not trying to find the solution I was going to ask on this question are we going to drill and build houses in the same federal land and I think when people hear Federal lands these are really important pieces of land now Minnesota doesn't have a lot of federal lands I know in the western part of

the countries we do there's not a lot of federal lands in and around Minneapolis for example so the issue is is I don't understand the federal lands issue unless we see this and I worry about this as someone who cares deeply about our national parks and our federal lands look Minnesota we protect these things we've got about 20% of the world's fresh water these lands protect they're there for a reason they belong to all of us but again this is when you View housing and you view these things as Commodities like there's a chance to

make money here let's take this federal land and let's sell it to people for that I think there's better ways to do this we've seen it in Minnesota we're able to refurbish some of these houses we're able to make some Investments that gets people in and I'm still on the fact on this economy you Senator Vance you said you don't like the economist which economists are saying that it is immigrants that's adding to the cost governor governor your time is time is up but but Senator on that point I'd like for you to clarify there

are many contributing factors to high housing costs what evidence do you have that migrants are part of this problem well there's a Federal Reserve study that we're happy to share after the debate we'll put it up on social media actually that really drills down on the connection between increased levels of migration especially illegal immigration and higher housing prices now of course uh Margaret that's not the entire driver of higher housing prices it's also the regulatory regime of kamla Harris look we are a country of Builders we're a country of doers we're a country of explorers

but we increasingly have a federal Administration that makes it harder to develop our resources makes it harder to build things and wants to throw people in jail for not doing everything exactly as kamla Harris says they have to do and what that means is that you have a lot of people who would love to build homes who aren't able to build homes I actually agree with Tim Waltz we should get out of this idea of housing as a commodity but the thing that has most turned housing into a commodity is giving it away to Millions

upon millions of people who have no legal right to be here what are the federal regulations I deal with this as a governor you can very quickly reply I'm sorry I I get this as a governor and and I don't necessarily disagree with that that in some cases many of those are local many of them are State I don't know which ones are federal but I think whenever we talk regulations people think they can get rid of them I think you want to be able to get out of your house in a fire I think

you want to make sure that it's fireproof and those types of things so which are the regulations because the vice president's not responsible for those Congress writes those Governor thank you gentlemen uh we have a lot to get through you're passionate about the housing crisis I I can tell but Nora thank you one of the top problems facing Americans is the high cost of Healthcare Senator Vance at the last presidential debate former president Trump was asked about replacing the Affordable Care Act in response he said I have concepts of a plan since then Senator you've

talked about changing how chronically ill Americans get health insurance can you explain how that would work and can you guarantee that Americans with pre-existing conditions won't pay more I'll give you two minutes well of course we're going to cover Americans with pre-existing conditions ions in fact a lot of my family members have have gotten Healthcare uh I believe you know members of my family actually got Private health insurance at least for the first time switched off of Medicaid onto private insurance for the first time under Donald Trump's leadership and I think that you know a

lot of people have criticized this concepts of a plan remark look it's very simple common sense I think as Tim Walls knows from 12 Years in Congress you're not going to propose a 900 page Bill standing on a debate stage it would bore everybody to tears and it wouldn't actually mean anything because part of this is the give and take of bipartisan negotiation now when Donald Trump was actually president and again he has a record to be proud of prescription drugs fell in 2018 for the first time in a very long time under KLA Harris's

leadership prescription drugs are up about 7% under Donald Trump's entire four years they were up about 1 and a half% he introduced pricing transparency think about healthc care you go into a hospital you try to buy something and nobody knows what it actually costs that price transparency will actually give American consumers a little bit more choice and will also drive down costs and we talked about you know the the the reinsurance regulations is what I was talking about look Donald Trump has said that if we allow states to experiment a little bit on how to

cover both the chronically ill but the non-chronically ill it's not just a plan he actually implemented some of these regulations when he was president of the United States and I think you can make a really good argument that it salvaged Obamacare which was doing disastrously until Donald Trump came along I I think it's is an important point about President Trump of course you don't have to agree with everything that President Trump has ever said or ever done but when ObamaCare was crushing under the weight of its own regulatory burden and health care costs Donald Trump

could have destroyed the program instead he worked in a bipartisan way to ensure that Americans had access to Affordable Care it's not perfect of course and there's so much more that we can do but I think that Donald Trump has earned the right to put in place some Better Health Care policies he's earned it because he did it successfully the first time Governor all right here's where being an old guy gives you some history I was there at the creation of the ACA and the reason it was so important is I come from a major

healthc care State home of the Mayo Clinic home to Medical alley 3M medronic all of those we understand Healthcare it's why we're ranked first on affordability and accessibility and quality of healthcare and so what I know is under KLA Harris more people covered than they have before and those of you listening this is critical to you now Donald Trump all of a sudden wants to go back and remember this he ran on the first thing he was going to do on day one was to repeal Obamacare on day one he tried to sign an executive

order to repeal the ACA he signed on to a lawsuit to repeal the ACA but lost at the Supreme Court and he would have repealed the ACA had it not been for the courage of John McCain to say save that bill now fast forward what that means to you is you lose your pre-existing conditions if you're sitting at home and you got asthma too bad if you're a woman probably not broke your foot during football might kick you out your kids get kicked out when they're 26 kamare negotiated drug prices for the first time with

Medicare we have 10 drugs that will come online the most common ones that'll be there but look this issue and when Donald Trump said I've got a concept of a plan it cracked me up as a fourth grade teacher because my kids would have never given me that but what Senator Vance just explained might be worse than a concept because what he explained is pre- Obamacare and I'll make this as simple as possible because I have done this for a long time what they're saying is if you're healthy why should you be paying more so

what they're going to do is let insurance companies pick who they insure because guess what happens you pay your premium it's not much they're figure they're not going to have to pay out to you but those of you a little older gray you know got cancer you're going to get kicked out of it that's why the system didn't work comma Harris will protect and enhance the ACA Governor thank you Senator you have not yet explained how you would protect people with pre-existing conditions or laid out that plan well look we currently have laws and regulations

in the place in place right now that protect people with pre-existing conditions we want to keep those regulations in place but we also want to make the health insurance Marketplace function a little bit better now what governor Waltz just said is actually not true a lot of what happened in and the reason that Obamacare was crushing under its own weight is that a lot of young and healthy people were leaving the exchanges Donald Trump actually helped address that problem and he did so in a way that preserved people's access to coverage who had pre-existing conditions

but again something that these guys do is they make a lot of claims about if Donald Trump becomes president all of these terrible consequences are going to ensue but in reality Donald Trump was President inflation was low take-home pay was higher and saved the very program from a democratic Administration that was collapsing and would have collapsed absent his leadership he did his job which is govern in a bipartisan way and get results not just complain about problems but actually solve them Governor did enrollment under the Affordable Care Act go up under the Trump Administration it's

it's higher now that we've seen it go up look people are using it the system works and the the question about this of young people whatever that's the individual mandate piece of this and Republicans tooth and nail saying well Americans should be free to do this well then what happens you think the individual mandate's a good idea you I I think the idea of making sure the risk pool is Broad enough to cover everyone that's the only way Insurance works when it doesn't it collapses you are asking pre-aca where we get people out look people

know that they need to be on healthare people expect it to be there and when we are able to make it and we are making it this way when we incentivize people to be in the market when we help people who might not be able to afford it get there and we make sure then when you get sick and old it's there for you because I heard people say well I don't I don't want to buy into Medicare whatever good luck buying Healthcare once you get past 70 so look the ACA works we can continue

to do better KLA Harris did that the way she made everything better was negotiating those 10 drugs on Medicare for the first time in American history thank you Margaret can I I apologize we're out of time we have a number of subjects to discuss Margaret let's talk about families in America um there is a child care crisis in this country and the United States is one of the very few developed countries in the world without a national paid leave program for new parents Governor walls you said that if Democrats win both the White House and

Congress this is a day one priority for you how long should employers be required to pay workers while they are home taking care of their newborns you have two minutes yeah well that's negot and that's what Congress worked but here's what the deal is Americans sitting out there right now you may work for a big company look we're home in Minnesota to some of the largest Fortune 500 companies Comm Harris knows that in col are in California those companies provide Paid Family Medical Le one is I think they're moral and they think it's a good

thing but it also keeps their employees healthy we in Minnesota passed a paid family medical leave you have a child you and I had to go back to work 5 days after my kids were born this allows you to stay home home a certain amount of time what we know is that gets the child off to a better start the family works better we stay in their employers we get more consistency in that so KLA Harris has made it a priority we implemented in Minnesota and we see growth that's how you become a a pro

bus state but the negotiations on it and here's the issue those big companies are able to offer it those of you out there who don't have it just imagine what happens if you get cancer or your child gets sick we know what happens you end up staying home in some places that means no paycheck because you've got no protection on that this is the case of an economy that Donald Trump has set for the wealthiest amongst us he's willing to give those tax breaks to the wealthiest he's willing to say Bust those unions up do

whatever what we're saying is the economy works best when it works for all of us and so a paid family medical leave program and I will tell you go to the families or go to the businesses and ask them as far as child care on this you have to take it at both the supply and the demand side you can't expect the most important people in our lives to take either our children or our parents to get paid the least amount of money and we have to make it easier for folks to be able to

get into that business and then to make sure that folks are able to pay for that we were able to do it in Minnesota and I'm still telling you this we were listed as the best state we're still in crisis on this a federal program of paid family medical leave and help with this will enhance our Workforce enhance our families and make it easier to have the children that you want Governor your time is up Senator do you support a national paid leave program and if so for how long should employers be mandated to pay

their employees while they are home taking care of their newborn you have two minutes yeah well first of all Margaret a number of my Republican colleagues and some Democrats too have worked on this issue and I think there is a bipartisan solution here because a lot of us care about this issue I mean look I I I I I speak from this very personally because I'm married to a beautiful woman who is an incredible mother to our beautiful kids but is also a very very brilliant corporate litigator and I'm so proud of her but being

a working mom even for somebody with all of the advantages of my wife is extraordinarily difficult and it's not just difficult from a policy perspective she actually had access to Paid Family Leave because she worked for a bigger company but the cultural pressure on young families and especially young women uh I think makes it really hard for people to choose the family model they want a lot of young women would like to go back to work immediately some would like spend a little time home with the kids some would like to spend longer at home

with the kids we should have a family care model that makes Choice possible and I think this is a very important substantive difference between Donald Trump and KLA Harris's approach I mean look if you look at the federal programs that we have that support Paid Family Leave right now the Community Development block grant and there's another block grant program that spends a lot of money from the federal government these programs only go to one kind of child care model let's say you'd like your church maybe to help you out with child care maybe you live

in a rural area or an urban area and you'd like to get together with families in your neighborhood to provide child care in the way that makes the most sense you don't get access to any of these Federal monies we want to promote choice in how we deliver Family Care and how we promote child care because look it is unacceptable and you know of course Tim and I have been on the campaign Trail a lot the past seven or eight weeks and one of the biggest complaints I hear from young families is people who feel

like they don't have options like they're choosing between going to work or taking care for their kids that is an incredible burden to put on American families we the only country that does it I think we could do a heck of a lot better Senator thank you you have also said Senator Vance um many things about the American Family the Federal Reserve says parents will spend nearly as much on child care as they do on housing each month so I want to get your thoughts on this um president Trump recently said as much as Child

Care is talked about as being expensive it's relatively speaking not very expensive compared to the kinds of numbers will be taking in is President Trump committed to the $5,000 per child tax credit that you have described you have one minute well what president Trump said Margaret I just want to defend my running mate here a little bit is that we're going to be taking in a lot of money by penalizing companies for shipping jobs overseas and penalizing countries who employ slave laborers and then ship their products back into our country and undercut the wages of

American workers it's the heart of the Donald Trump economic plan cut taxes for American workers and American families cut taxes for businesses that are hiring and building companies in the United States of America but penalize companies and countries that are shipping jobs overseas that's the heart of the economic proposal and I think what president Trump is saying is that when we bring in this additional Revenue with higher economic growth we're going to be able to provide Paid Family Leave child care options that are VI and workable for a lot of American families can you clarify

how that will solve the child care shortage well because as Tim said a lot of the child care shortages we just don't have enough resources going into the multiple people who could be providing family care options and we're going to have to unfortunately look we're going to have to spend more money we're going to have to induce more people to want to provide child care options for American families because the reason it's so expensive right now is because you've got way too few people providing this very essential service thank you Senator Governor walls your ticket

also has some childcare tax credit proposals uh do you think Congress will agree to the $6,000 credit for newborns and $3,000 credit for children over the age of six as your campaign has promised is that realistic well if these members of Congress are listening to anybody I can tell you and and this is the biggest issue everybody listening tonight knows I mean I'm sure they were shocked to hear it's not that expensive and let's be clear whether it's 5,000 or 6,000 that plays you about 3 or 4 months let's be clear of where we're at

on this it's because we got out of an imbalance on this we thought we were going to get by by not paying people I don't think Cinder Vance are that and I are that far apart I'm not opposed to what he's talking about on on options we've done scholarships types of things I think we need to be open to making the case but the issue here is the question you asked is you're not going to pay for it with these tariffs that's just adding another 4,000 on the family and taking less so not only do

they not get the money to pay for that they're $4,000 in the whole that's Wharton School that's that's his Alma moer and so I think the issue here is if those members of Congress I can't believe they're not when I go to businesses sure they'll talk about taxes sometime but they will lead with child care and they will lead with housing because we know the problem is especially in a state like Minnesota we need more workers because our economy is growing but we need the workforce Governor thank you we need to move on Nora let's

talk about the state of democracy the top issue for Americans after the economy and inflation after the 2020 election President Trump's campaign and others filed 62 lawsuits contesting the results judges including those appointed by President Trump and other Republican presidents looked at the evidence and said there was no widespread fraud the governors of every state in the nation Republicans and Democrats certified the 2020 election results and sent a legal slate of electors to Congress for January 6th Senator Vance you have said you would not have certified the last presidential election and would have asked the

states to submit alternative electors that has been called unconstitutional and illegal would you again seek to challenge this year's election results even if every Governor certifies the results I'll give you two minutes well Nora first of all I think that we're focused on the future we need to figure out how to solve the inflation crisis caused by KLA Harris's policies make housing affordable make groceries affordable and that's what we're focused on but I want to answer your question because you did ask it look what president Trump has said is that there were problems in 2020

and my own belief is that we should fight about those issues debate those issues peacefully in the Public Square and that's all I've said and that's all that Donald Trump has said remember he said that on January the 6th the protesters ought to protest peacefully and on January the 20th what happened Joe Biden became the president Trump left the White House and now of course unfortunately we have all of the negative policies that have come from the Harris Biden Administration I believe that we actually do have a threat to democracy in this country but unfortunately

it's not the threat to democracy that kamla Harris and Tim Waltz want to talk about it is the threat of censorship it's Americans casting aside lifelong friendships because of disagreements over politics it's big technology companies silencing their fellow citizens and it's kamla Harris saying that rather than debate and persuade her fellow Americans she'd like to censor people who engage in misinformation I think that is a much bigger threat to democracy than anything that we've seen in this country in the last four years in the last 40 years now I'm really proud especially given that I

was raised by two lifelong bluecollar Democrats to have the endorsement of Bobby Kennedy Jr and Tulsi gabard lifelong leaders in the Democratic Coalition and of course they don't agree with me and Donald Trump on every issue we don't have to agree on every issue but we're United behind a basic American First Amendment principle that we ought to debate our differences we ought to argue about them we ought to try to persuade our fellow Americans kamla Harris is engaged in censorship at an industrial scale she did it during covid she's done it over a number of

other issues and that to me is a much bigger threat to democracy than what Donald Trump said when he said that protesters should peacefully protest on January the 6th Governor well I've enjoyed tonight's debate and I think there was a lot of commonality here and I'm I'm sympathetic to misspeaking on things and I think I might have with uh with the senator but there's one there's one though that this this one is troubling to me and I say that because I I think we need to tell the story Donald Trump refused to acknowledge this and

the fact is is that I don't think we can be the frog in the pot and let the boiling water go up he was very clear I mean he lost his election and he said he didn't 140 police officers were beaten at the capital that day some with the American flag several later died and it wasn't just in there in Minnesota a group gathered on the state capital grounds in St Paul and said we're marching to the governor's residence and there may be casualties the only person there was my son and his dog who was

rushed out crying by State Police that issue and Mike Pence standing there as they were chanting hang Mike Pence Mike Pence made the right decision so Senator it was adjudicated over and over and over I worked with kids long enough to know and I said as a football coach sometimes you really want to win but the democracy is bigger than winning an election you shake hands and then you try and do everything you can to help the other side win that's that's what was at stake here now the thing I'm most concerned about is the

idea that imprisoning your your political opponents already laying the groundwork for people not accepting this and a president's words matter a president's words matter people hear that so I think this issue of settling our differences at The Ballot Box Shake hands when we lose being honest about it but to deny what happened on January 6th the first time in American history that a president or anyone tried to overturn a fair election and the peaceful transfer of power and here we are four years later in the same boat I will tell you this that when this

is over we need to shake hands this election and the winner needs to be the winner this has got to stop it's tearing our country apart Margaret Senator Vance did you want to respond to that yeah well look Tim first of all it's really rich for Democratic leaders to say that Donald Trump is a unique threat to democracy when he peacefully Gave Over power on January the 20th as we have done for 250 years in this country we are going to shake hands after this debate and after this election and of course I hope that

we win and I think we're going to win but if Tim wals is the next vice president he'll have my prayers he'll have my best wishes and he'll have my help whenever he he he wants but we have to remember that for years in this country Democrats protested the results of elections Hillary Clinton in 2016 said that Donald Trump had the election stolen by Vladimir Putin because the Russians bought like $500,000 worth of Facebook ads this has been going on for a long time and if we want to say that we need to respect the

results of the election I'm on board but if we want to say as Tim Waltz is saying that this is just a problem that Republicans have had I don't buy that governor January 6 was not Facebook ads and and I think a revisionist history on this look I I don't understand how we got to this point but the issue was that happened Donald Trump can do it and all of us say there's no place for this it has massive repercussions this idea that there's censorship to stop people from doing threatening to kill someone threatening to

do something that's not that's not censorship censorship is book Banning we've seen that we've seen that brought up I just think for every tonight and and I I'm going to thank Senator van I think this is the conversation they want to hear and I think there's a lot of agreement but this is one that we are miles apart on this was a threat to our democracy in a way that we had not seen and it manifested itself because of Donald Trump's inability to say he is still saying he didn't lose the election I would just

ask that did he lose the 2020 election Tim I'm focused on the future did kamla Harris censor Americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020 covid situation that is a daming that is a damning non-answer has she it's a damning non-answer for you to not talk about censorship obviously Donald Trump and I think that there were problems in 2020 we've talked about it I'm happy to talk about it further but you guys attack us for not believing in democracy the most sacred right under the United States democracy is the first amendment you

yourself have said there's no First Amendment right to misinformation KLA harrris wants to use the power of government and big to silence people from speaking their minds that is a threat to democracy that will long outlive this present political moment I would like Democrats and Republicans to both reject censorship let's persuade one another let's argue about ideas and then let's come together afterwards you can't yell fire in a crowded theater that's that's the test that's the Supreme Court test Tim fire in a crowded theater you guys wanted to kick people off of Facebook for saying

that toddler shouldn't wear Mas fire in a crowded theater that is criticizing the policies of the government which is the right of every American Senator the governor does have the floor for one minute to respond to you yeah well I don't run Facebook what I do know is is I see a candidate out there who refused and now again and this I'm pretty shocked by this he lost the election this is not a debate it's not it's not anything anywhere other than in Donald Trump's world because look when Mike Pence made that decision to certify

that election that's why Mike Pence isn't on this stage what I'm concerned about is where is the firewall with Donald Trump where is the firewall if he knows he could do anything including taking an election and his vice president's not going to stand to it that's what we're asking you America will you stand up will you keep your oath of office even if the president doesn't and I think KLA Harris would agree she wouldn't have picked me if she didn't think I would do that because of course that's what we would do so America I

think you've got a really clear choice on this election of who's going to honor that democracy and who's going to honor Donald Trump Governor your time is up uh thank you gentlemen we will be right back with both of our candidates the CBS News vice presidential debate continues [Music] [Music] welcome back to the CBS News vice presidential debate it is now time for the closing statement Senator Vance won the virtual coin toss and elected to go last so Governor walls you are first you have two minutes well thank you Senator Vance thank you to CBS

News and most importantly thank you to all of you if you're still up and and the folks who Miss Dancing With Our Stars I appreciate it but look the support of the Democracy matters it matters that you're here and I'm as surprised as anybody of this Coalition that KLA Harris has built from Bernie Sanders to Dick Cheney to Taylor Swift and a whole bunch of folks in between there and they don't all agree on everything but they are truly optimistic people they believe in a positive future of this country and one where our politics can

be better than it is and I have to tell you that uh that better than it is is the sense of optimism that there can be an opportunity economy that works for everyone not just to get by but to get ahead and the idea that freedom really means something not the freedom of government to be in your bedroom or exam room but the freedom for you to make choices about yourself now look we all know who Donald Trump is he's told us and as my Angelo said believe him when he told you that his first

inaugural dress talked about America Carnage and then he SP spent four years trying to maybe do that Senator Vance tonight made it clear he will stand with Donald Trump's agenda he will continue to push down that road excuse me KLA Harris gives us a different option now I'll have to tell you I'm going to be careful about the quotes but there's one that Senator Vance said that does resonate with me he said Donald Trump makes the people I care about afraid a lot of America feels that way we don't need to be afraid Franklin Roosevelt

was right all we have to fear is fear itself kamla Harris is bringing us a new way forward she's bringing us a politics of Joy she's bringing real solutions for the middle class and she's centering you at the heart of that all the while asking everyone join this movement make your voices heard let's look for a new day where everybody gets that opportunity and everybody gets a chance to thrive I humbly ask for your vote on November 5th for KLA Harris Governor walls thank you Senator Vance your closing statement well I want to thank Governor

Waltz uh you you folks at CBS and of course the American people for tuning in this evening and one of the issues we didn't talk about was energy and I remember when I was being raised by my grandmother when she didn't have enough money to turn on the heat some nights because Ohio gets pretty cold at night and because money was often very tight and I believe as a person who wants to be your next vice president that we are a rich and prosperous enough country where every American whether they're rich or poor ought to

be able to turn on on their heat in the middle of a cold winter night that's gotten more difficult thanks to KLA Harris's energy policies I believe that whether you're rich or poor you ought to be able to afford a nice meal for your family that's gotten harder because of K Harris's policies I believe that whether you're rich or poor you ought to be able to afford to buy a house you ought to be able to live in safe neighborhoods you ought to not have your communities flooded with fentanyl and that too has gotten harder

with K because of kamla Harris's policies now I've been in politics long enough to do what kamla Harris does when she stands before the American people and says that on day one she's going to work on all these challenges I just listed she's been the vice president for three and a half years day one was 1,400 days ago and her policies have made these problems worse now I believe that we have the most beautiful country in the world I meet people on the campaign Trail who can't afford food but have the grace and generosity to

ask me how I'm doing and to tell me they're praying for my family what that is taught me is that we have the greatest country the most beautiful country the most incredible people anywhere in the world but they're not going to be able to achieve their full dreams with the broken leadership that we have in Washington they're not going to be able to live their American Dream if we do the same thing that we've been doing for the last three and a half years we need change we need a new direction we need a president

who has already done this once before and did it well please vote for Donald Trump and whether you vote for me or vote vote for Tim wals I just want to say I'm so proud to be doing this and I'm rooting for you God bless you and good night Senator Vance thank you and thank you both for participating in the only vice presidential debate of this election cycle I'm Margaret Brandon and I'm Nora odonnell and a reminder there are just 35 days until election day please get out and vote and for all of us here

at CBS news thank you and good night [Music]