expert help from dating coach, Logan Ury

[Music] it's Circle [Music] time I Circle you and [Applause] I hello sweethearts how the heck is everyone I miss you guys I love you guys I hope wherever you are whenever you're listening to this you're doing well and I feel like I don't know it just feels like so long since I've gotten to talk to my circlers we're going to have a solo episode soon just so I can just chat away there's so much to talk about but I am so excited about the episode that I have for you all today because I just it

was such an amazing interview so I know you can kind of tell by the title but I had Logan Yuri on and she is a behavioral scientist turned dating coach and she wrote a book called how to not die alone and she currently works as hing's director of relationship science so she like does a lot of research into modern dating and I just feel like so many of you I'll see on the Geneva or you'll call in for story time there's so many like dating questions and there's just so much there's just so many like

opinions out there and there's so much going on online so many people's opinions and so many people's anecdotes and all of that and I thought it would be really cool to have someone come on and kind of just like that actually has studied dating and like she's studied psychology at Harvard and she ran Google's Behavioral Science team and all of this stuff and I just think that she like you know has really studied dating and and I thought it would be cool to get like a professional's advice on dating and so I was really excited

for Logan to come on and talk to you all and I tried to think of all of the questions like all of the common questions I usually get so we talk about long-distance relationships and we talk about you know like how to get ready for a first date and how to judge how a first state is going and when to have a conversation about if you want to be boyfriend and girlfriend and we kind of just like cover all of these topics that I've seen you guys chatting about or I've heard you ask me on

story time and I want my circlers to get like the best information and the most information and so I thought it would be fun to have like an actual professional come on and talk to you all because you know I am not a professional expert on the matter and so I wanted you to learn from a professional and I thought it would be fun to do this and then it kind of I know I've mentioned this before but I just think it would be so much fun to start having people on like actual professionals on

who can teach us about things that we don't learn in school that we absolutely should learn in school whether it's finances or fertility and birth control and all of that or whatever it is so like if there's anything that you guys find yourself thinking like why don't we learn about this in school put it in the Geneva in like the recent episodes chat and I'll keep an eye on that and I'll try to look for like actual experts on all of those topics so we can like really we can learn something here in the circle

I mean we learned so much every single episode but I want to make I want you know I want us to be well-versed in everything that we want to know about and yeah sorry I'm freaking pregnant you guys and I get so out of breath so out of breath every single time I talk if you listen to my ads on this episode like you will hear me just gasping for air well it feels like my tank runs out after the end of every single sentence but that is what this episode is about this is all

about dating and it's super interesting I feel like even I learn so much and I'm like a married 30-year-old old lady so I really hope it's helpful for you guys and I could always have Logan back on she was amazing to talk to and if there's any like follow-up questions that you have or you want to hear more about a certain thing I would be happy to do a little segment with her again where we do some follow-up questions so you let me know about that and let me know what you would want to learn

about um because us circlers not only are we hot and fun and funny and cool but we're also really smart and we know about every single topic that there is to know about so that is that is what this episode is about other than that like I said I will be doing another solo episode soon giving you some actual updates on everything but until then this is my update I'm doing well I am still pregnant I'm out of breath all the freaking time um and I am almost 27 weeks pregnant cuzz I think the last

update I gave I was like 21 but now I am nearly 27 which is crazy but everything's good and there's so much more I want to talk to you about but we'll save it for the solo episode and if there's anything that you want to hear me talk about in a Solo episode also put that in the recent episodes little section of Geneva and I'll talk about it but until then I hope that you guys learned something from this episode or just like find it interesting I really did so I hope you all enjoy it

too and that's that um I love you all so much my sweet circlers and I will talk to you soon now enjoy today's episode hello hi great to meet you so nice to meet you I have explained already to the circlers exactly who you are and what you do but if you want to also kind of for yourself tell them a little bit about yourself and then we can kind of get into it because I have questions sure yeah so very excited to be here I'm Logan Yuri I work as the Director of relationship science

at hinge which means that I help conduct Research into dating and figuring out what sets successful daters apart and how can we help more people do that I also wrote a book called how to not die alone the surprising science that will help you find love and I work one-on-one as a dating coach and I teach classes on dating that is I mean it's just such an interesting career first off before we get into the you know the science of dating and all of that how did you get into this job like what inspired you

to become a dating coach and whatnot yeah I think I've always been really interested in Psychology and how people think and so that's what I studied at Harvard and then I graduated and I went to Google and I had this very job I ran the porn pod there oh so I was like 22 years old this new Harvard grad my parents had just paid all this money for me to go to college and I'm like it was really interesting so I did you know some different jobs at Google but eventually I moved into this really

cool role running the Behavioral Science team there it was called the irrational lab and it's basically saying like how do we use psychology and decisionmaking and how people think to apply that to Google marketing and Google products so I was really leaning into the psychology piece but at the same time Tinder had just come out and I was like wow like this is something new like dating is really changing I was using dating apps I was on hinge and I was just like there's something else going on here so I started this series where I

brought in experts to talk about dating and basically ever since then I've been applying psychology and how we make decisions to dating and that's taken different forms like coaching and my book and working at hinge but it all kind of comes down to this feeling of like it's so interesting that we make this decision like for many years of our lives about who we're going to be with and there's all these things holding us back from making good decisions how can we understand that better and how can we help people it's just so interesting and

so have you when it comes to because I've never I've never been on a dating app like I've never used one myself but I know so many people that have and so I kind of and I know that a lot of people who listen are using them and also are just like out in the real world trying to date and so what parts of the dating app and like especially hinge like how do you how can I guess I first we can talk about like how you can make your dating app profile as appealing as

possible but then also just I kind of want to get into like just real world dating and general dating stuff so what would you say is how can you make your profile if you're using a dating app as what's the word I'm looking for as I can talk to that like how to be as successful as possible using hinge yeah so this is really fun because I feel like at hinge we've done a deep dive into this where we're like What are the profiles that are actually leading to matches and messages and dates and so

I can tell you about that so your profile is really a chance to tell your story it's almost like if you were going to have a billboard that explains who you are like what is the what's the must know information and so part of telling a story is having variety so you know if I look at somebody's profile and it's six pictures from burning man I'm like that is a very specific spe image and I actually know you and like it's just that you happen to have a lot of pictures from Bernie man but you're

not even that into it like this isn't really telling your story so having a variety of pictures strategically like starting with a head shot so something that shows your face and you're not wearing sunglasses you don't have filters you know I can really see what you look like and then you should have pictures that show like your full body you doing an activity that you love you with friends and family to show us that you have a social life really just different parts of your life and then my favorite thing about hinge is the prompts

so there's these really fun prompts that people can fill out and they've gotten even more creative over the years so there was a whole kind of pack called self-care prompts that came out a few years ago where it's things like my therapist would tell you or one green flag I look for and so that's a chance to show your sense of humor but I encourage people to have a mixture of humor and vulnerability you can't be like all dad jokes because then I feel like well maybe you don't want a relationship but not all too

serious because then I'm like do you have a sense of humor so it really is like a writing exercise where you're like what are the things I want you to know about me and how can I express them to you either through these pictures or through these prompts yeah I mean I do I think the prompts are great I've helped many of my friends make like write answers and stuff and I just feel like it's so helpful to get the grasp of somebody's personality and what they're into and whatnot so say you are on hinge

you match with someone you guys are talking how do you instead of getting in like a complete texting rut for multiple weeks how would you go from like you make this successful profile you match with someone you guys have a good couple conversations how do you get out of that like talking phase and into like an actual date totally yeah we call that falling into the phone Zone you definitely don't want to do it or it's like becoming pen pals and I can explain a couple reasons why you don't want to do it so one

is that people are like no like I keep getting more information about them so I want to keep chatting like I don't want to meet up in person until I have all this information but what I've found is that actually the longer that you go texting without meeting up the more you create a fantasy of them in your head okay and then when you meet up with them in person even if they are genuinely great because they don't exactly meet this fantasy that you had created of them you're disappointed so the longer you go with

talking but not meeting up the more you're setting yourself up for disappointment so at hinge we found that the sweet spot of getting out of the phone zone is after around 3 days of chatting trying to get off the app so that might be hey let's make a plan hey let's talk on the phone something that kind of like transitions it off so it's still early enough that there's momentum but it's not so early that it feels rushed and I like to say I like to have my clients say something like hey let's see if

we get along as well in person as we do over text what are you doing Thursday at 7 kind of like a little flat a little flirty and complimentary but also kind of just like throwing out a date and time so that you can respond to it so even if you're not free Thursday at 7 you can respond to it and say something along the lines of like well I can't do Friday but I can do Saturday I can't do Thursday but I can do Friday something like that so it's basically just like making it

clear to the other person that you're not there for a pen pal and if the person keeps deferring and doesn't really seem to want to meet up that's also data that's good for you to have because if you're looking for an actual relationship don't waste your time with someone who just wants affirmation over text right yeah that totally makes sense so as you guys remember honestly it feels like forever ago so if you don't remember Let me refresh your memory I got married it's true I'm a married woman I got married this past February and

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circlers next time you are celebrating a special moment in your life and you're interested in some diamonds remember to choose a natural diamond because the good they put back into the communities is worth it and they're beautiful and the diamond industry has undergone significant positive transformation over the past 20 plus years these diamonds are naturally and ethically sourced so for more information go to Natural diamonds.com so over time as I've you know started my 30s I've had a lot of time to subscribe to things online and then forget that I'm paying for all of these

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manage your money the easy way by going to Rocket money.com Circle time that's rocket money.com Circle time rocket money.com Circle time so would you recommend I want to get into that like then going on that first date but before that would you recommend like matching and talking to as many people as possible or do you are you more do you think that you find one or two people that you really connect with and focus on those yeah that's a good question and it's very appoo because right now at hinge we just released this thing called

a distraction free dating guide which was basically this idea that's like people really want to meet and they want to chat but a lot of them especially gen Z are telling us like my phone's getting in the way I'm going on all these dates where I'm looking at my phone or somebody else's and so we've really been trying to help people figure out like hey if you want to meet someone like put your phone away on a date don't take it out to show each other memes like stuff that feels obvious but is happening and

sort of part of the research that we did around this was on the idea of how many people you should talk to at the same time and My Philosophy is to cut the roster I think when you have so many people at the same time you take some of them for granted you go on a bunch of dates and like this happened to me when I was online dating is that I would be like wait did I tell you this story or did I tell this to the guy that I went out on a date

with yesterday totally and I like started getting confused between who I had said stuff to I was pretty burned out so I couldn't make good decisions about people I felt like I was almost just like dating to date and not really taking all the people in and so instead my recommendation is match with a few people at the same time chat with them see where it goes try to get to either a relationship or realizing that you're not a fit and then do that again and that way that you're giving each one a chance to

either become something or not I think people have this misconception that's like well if I'm talking to 20 people and I meet the right one I'll know it it's like no you're only going to know it if you're in a mindset to connect and you're only in a mindset to connect when you're not talking to so many people at the same time yeah that that totally makes sense okay so you connect with a couple people and you're going to go in your first date I know that you have questions to ask yourself after the first

date is there anything you recommend to prepare for a first date with someone yeah so this was really something that I started thinking about a lot during the pandemic because people people were going from like a zoom meeting that ended at 5:00 to a zoom date that started at 5:01 and they were not transitioning out of work mode into date mode and so a big thing is just understanding that so much of dating is your mindset like if you go in thinking this isn't going to work my last 50 dates haven't worked you're kind of

creating that that that that's what's like going to manifest right it's like this idea of whether you think it Go will go well or you think it will go poorly you're right and so how do you get into the right mindset for dating and some of this stuff might seem cheesy but I really think it matters it's like can you listen to a PumpUp playlist can you do 10 jumping jacks can you call your best friend who really wants you to find love just getting yourself into this mood of like I'm gonna show up and

be present and connect and be flirty and I think that people underestimate how much their mindset impacts how much fun they have and how open they are because it's not just like I'll know it when I see it if it's the right person it's like the context that you meet in matters a a lot yeah yeah that completely completely makes sense I mean you can apply that to any kind of situation in life I feel but that's yeah that totally makes sense so you go on a first date with someone what are the eight questions

to ask yourself after your first date with someone yeah so what I was Finding is that I was coaching all these people and I had this one male client in particular whose name was Jonathan and he would say to me oh yeah I met this guy he was great but I just didn't feel the spark and he kept talking about the spark and it kind of became this Nemesis to me where I was like what do you even mean by that you just mean instant chemistry you just mean like in the moment that I met

him did I feel super attracted to him I was like that's not really what long-term relationships are about and so I tried to train him and other people to look instead of for the spark for the Slow Burn for that person I'm sure you know the kind of people I'm talking about where it's like maybe when you first meet them they're a little bit more awward or you don't initially feel like you want to like jump and take their clothes off but then you're like wait I feel more and more attracted to you I actually

really like you you really lit up when you talked about your passion for comedy or whatever it was and so going after that person that gets better over time versus that Sparky person that starts really high but then probably disappoints you and so when Jonathan was going on these dates I felt like he was looking for the wrong stuff and so I designed these questions for him and other people you ask yourself these questions after the date but the point is that during the date they're training you what to look for and so the questions

it's called the postate 8 and the questions are things like what side of me did they bring out did I feel more energized or deenergized than I did before the date did they make me laugh did I feel attractive around them how did my body feel did I feel heard and by tuning into those questions versus things like did I feel the spark or is he good enough for me you're actually looking for the things that matter yeah yeah that makes sense would you recommend that if you're asking yourself all these questions and they answer

you answer some of them yes and some of them no is there like certain ones that are more important or is there a certain number that you should hit or is it kind of just like a feeling yeah it's a good question so there's no rubric that says like this is what to look for but the way that it's been more most helpful to people is when they're kind of on the fence so for example let's say I'm coaching a woman who's like this guy was so great on paper he would fit into well with

my family my parents would love him like stuff that's a little bit more external and superficial like what other people think of him but then when she did the post a date she's like I didn't laugh he brought out an anxious side of me and I felt stiff in my body that's a clue that this isn't a good match or somebody will be like oh you know I wasn't sure about the person but then each time they fill it out each time after a date and they're like I'm liking that person more and more and

so it's kind of a clue to what's going on with you I think a lot of people have trouble tuning into how they feel tuning into their body and so this is kind of like a shortcut to get that information from yourself yeah yeah that I think it's helpful to have kind of like a guideline like that because your thoughts can just get so jumbled after you meet someone and you don't know what to look for I also feel like there's a lot of stuff online like if you go on Tik Tok and there's so

many people who are not actual experts like yourself who have just you know been on a lot of dates or are in their 30s or whatever it is they're just they're just kind of talking about their experience but they have kind of like rules things that you shouldn't if he doesn't text you a plan right away then he's not worth it and all of these things do you think that that kind of stuff is helpful or do you think that now there's just like almost too much information and it kind of can Cloud someone's Judgment

of finding a good person and maybe the guy just didn't text you the quote unquote right way I I don't know I just feel like there's so many opinions out there now and it could maybe hinder people from finding someone great just because someone online says that you know what I'm saying yeah there's pros and cons to all of the dating content out there so I would say one of the pros is I feel like people have learned a lot about attachment Theory that's one of those things that like when I learned about it let's

say 10 years ago in a psychology context I was like wait this is really helping me this is helping things click now I understand a lot more about what's going on like I really think that it's a great framework and it is based in science there's like a huge research background to it and so the fact that people know about attachment Theory because Tik Tok has popularized it I'm on board with that yeah for sure what makes me worried is date entertainment or people who I almost feel like they're going on dates looking to have

a bad story that they can then talk about I I feel like it's rewarding the wrong Behavior it's almost like yeah yeah like dating as entertainment it's like I don't really you sure go have fun with dating but I also feel like if you're serious about finding someone like I don't want you just looking out for like how can I tell this funny story on Tik Tok later it's more about things like who are you how are you growing what are your patterns what are the things you want to change and so I feel like

I've heard stories about people that have TI talks have been made about and it's really invasive and so I just worry about the incentive there for that and then also in terms of how much content is out there from doing a lot of research into gen Z dating it's definitely influencing how people feel and so I think there's a lot of advice out there some good some bad and it's it's hard to tell if the person is legit or not so I think it's probably just very confusing for people is there anything that you've seen

that's like been very popular that you've kind of seen and been like that's not great actual great advice I think what you referenc around all those rules I can't think of a particular Tik Tok that I've seen it's funny I almost feel like because dating is my life it's not my favorite thing to like absorb dating content so it's like my Tik Tok algorithm is more like air fryer recipes and like Comedy Central roast right I think generally I don't feel like rules are helpful because they make it seem like we're all the same and

they also feel very dated and very gendered to me so things like he should pay for the first date and if he doesn't he's not interested he text you first I'm like who is that serving like yeah he's actually a feminist who grew up with like an awesome Mom who taught him that men and women are equal and therefore he's kind of like yeah maybe we'll split the date I feel like those rules hold you back from meeting great people because you're applying like one rule to everyone when a lot of us are different and

so I would say be skeptical of rules yeah yeah I mean that makes sense I feel like a lot of stuff that I see my brother is single and so he is dating and whatnot and so he'll kind of he'll talk to me about how he's you know talking to someone or whatnot and I all of a sudden I'm thinking of like these random dating Tik toks I've seen and I'm like well maybe you should do this and you should do that and I'm like but he's a great guy and he doesn't like if you're

playing up into all of these sort of games and rules then you're not being authentically who you are and you're eventually that is going to come out one way or another and like if you're a great guy you find someone who you who it works with then that's more what you should be looking for and not so much like a checklist of things that you think that the person should be doing before you even meet them I totally agree and I it reminds me I had a coaching call with this girl yesterday she's 26 it's

her first time like kind of getting past early dates with people and everything that's happening in reality is really great like when she hangs out with him he's really nice to her they're in good communication everything is going well but because she has like a checklist in her head of the Milestones she's worried that something's going wrong so she's like well I haven't met his friends yet so what does that mean he's been traveling a lot so we haven't hung out this week what does that mean and I'm like you're creating a problem where there

isn't one and her friends are kind of encouraging her like oh you know if he hasn't done this it means this I was like there's really two people in this relationship you and the other person go talk to them about how you're feeling talking to everyone else except them isn't helpful and so where we wound up on the call is the fact that she'd probably benefit from defining the relationship with him and she's ready to do that and she's ready to even like broach the conversation but I think the big unlock was helping her understand

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find Julie at your nearest CVS Target or Walmart today so like we talked about the first date and just hearing about that like do you think that like when after you've been on a few dates with someone and you're getting to know them more is there like what should you be looking out for where should it be going is it like what I guess it's kind of situational for each person right but is there like how do you how do you breach that next step and that next conversation yeah so a couple things to look

out for so I like when people answer the post date 8 after their first few dates because it helps them track like do I like this person more over time and that's especially true with people who aren't as Sparky who are more the Slow Burn and there's no exact time to get to the next level one of the things we've been doing in our research at hinge is really looking at does gen Z care as much about labels as maybe Millennials and so it might just be like well actually I just want to know that

we're exclusive but I don't care about the labels or maybe I do care about the labels or maybe I don't believe in exclusivity at all I just want to know like what we are and so I think the fact is that actually that conversation has changed because there's so many more ways to be in a relationship right now which is like something that I'm very happy to see I love people being creative about relationship design in terms of bringing it up I like when people can have a little opening line that they practice just because

it can be scary to say something so it might be like I'm really enjoying hanging out and I love getting to know you I wanted to see how you're feeling or you know something cheesy like we're about to meet my co-workers what should I call you yeah and I it's I just feel like these conversations are hard and having that go-to first line is good and then I also recommend that people know what their goals are for the conversation so is your goal just to check check if you're on the same page is your goal

exclusivity is it labels is it something else and then also what are acceptable answers for you and what are unacceptable answers so maybe an acceptable answer is I don't know I want to keep seeing you and seeing where things go or maybe you feel like no that's not what you want right now and so just there's so much fear of rejection especially with younger people that I feel like they're not always having these conversations and I feel like when you don't have the conversation you're really doing yourself a disservice because six months from now you

might find out that it wasn't what you thought it was and so just be bold and have the conversation is there a certain like do you think there is some like a time that's too early to have the conversation like is there is is there a sweet spot for that or is it kind of just depending on how things have been going mostly I think it's open to individual experiences but you know going back to attachment Theory a little bit people who are anxiously attached they often have this feeling of like I just don't want

to be single anymore I want to know that you're my boyfriend I I want to get into this relationship and so that that anxiety might actually compel them to have the conversation a little bit too soon and so I would say gut check with your friends like hey this is how much we've been hanging out does this feel like a good time to bring it up and I that is moment where I would bring in the squad and then I think too late is when you're making assumptions like well I've met his friends and we've

done XYZ together so we must be exclusive and but you haven't asked and so I would say like maybe like one to three months in but that's pretty loose yeah yeah I I think I think that makes sense you don't want to get too too deep into something and think it's going one place and it's going you know somewhere completely different do you have any advice on well there's a couple things maybe I should save that one because you have mentioned attachment Theory a bit and just for the circlers listening who might not know exactly

what you're talking about do you would you mind explaining that just a little bit I feel like it'd be really helpful to come from someone like you no very happy to talk about it and also as I mentioned earlier it's like this really is based on great research this is based on Research from the 60s they were studying children and their attachment to their mothers and then they realized that this type of attachment actually applies to adult relationships and so basically there's people who are anxiously attached and they want to constantly be in contact they

worry that somebody's going to abandon them and so they can come across as more needy and there's a lot of a feeling of like I want to lock this down and then there's people who are avoidant attached and they often feel like when somebody gets too close to me they're going to smother me I need to protect my space when you come close I'm going to push you away so this might be the kind of person who you know you have a sleepover on a Saturday night and then Sunday morning they kind of just like

totally change personalities and are like hey when are you planning on leaving like wait what was going on it's like they're protecting their space people who are securely attached and they're comfortable with intimacy but also comfortable with Independence and they're sort of able to manage both and so unsurprisingly secure partners are really great because they tell you how they feel but they're not invading your space they they want to get close to you but they also can spend time alone and 50% of daters are securely attached which is great but what ends up happening is

they kind of get snatched up into relationships and then who you have in the single dating pool are anxious and avoidant people and they date each other and they reinforce each other's worst habits so I'm anxiously attached and I think love is the chase love is convincing this guy who doesn't like me to like me I'm going to go after him I'm going to get on his calendar the avoidant attached guy is like love is somebody smothering me love is me having to pull back and defend my space and when these people date each other

and this anxious avoidant loop it's really hurtful it's really harmful they're they're not enjoying it and it's only when one of them either becomes more secure or finds a securely attached person that they break out of it and are like oh holy cow like dating can actually be way more enjoyable than I thought I had just I had thought that this was it it's like you were in a toxic pattern that you didn't know what wasn't what everyone was going through and when you break out of it that's when people make the change and find

a great relationship yeah totally I mean I think I've been there personally like I feel like everybody kind of has seen something like that do you think do you think it's like when an anxious person and an avoidant person come is it just that combination or is it like when two anxious people come together it can kind of combust and also like can your attachment style change if you're with the right person avoiding avoidant doesn't happen that often because neither person puts in the effort okay and anxious anxious can happen but they're not really attracted

to each other because they're both so available so it's like if my definition of what's sexy and what I want is somebody that pulls away when somebody's available I'm kind of turned off like I definitely remember in my early 20s when I was dating there was this feeling of like well if he rejects me he must be better than me so I should convince him to be with me which is such a different attitude from what I would suggest to people with is find someone who's excited about you and there's really not like a supposed

to be a power imbalance it's like I choose you and you choose me so that's why anxious avoidant happens the most okay there's two ways that this can change so one is people can become more secure and so they can work on things like when I don't hear from her and I feel really anxious instead of sending her 12 messages and then turning off my phone which is known as protest Behavior I can actually self sooe I can go for a walk I can go to the movies where I can't be on my phone I

can meet up with friends I can remind myself that they're at a concert and they don't have service I can do things to kind of soothe myself similarly avoid it people can work on feeling more close feeling more comfortable with intimacy so some of it is you can change yourself and then another thing is finding a secure partner and I feel like that's what really made the difference for me I was anxiously attached always dating these avoidant guys and being like how can I convince them fall in love with me and then when I started

dating my now husband I have this memory it's so clear of like I was walking down the street in San Francisco he did something to bother me I sent like 15 crazy texts like I was typing away on my screen like anger like shooting out of my ears and instead of responding and like kind of feeding into it he was like oh sounds like you're obset we should talk about this in person and it was like boom like he just like blew up this pattern and like he was consistently doing that where I thought things

would go a certain way that's like how my neural Pathways had grooved because I was used to anxious avoidant and suddenly I was like oh there's a different way and so being with somebody securely attached was what I needed to get out of it and now we've been together for eight and a half years and I'm like oh wow I'm so glad that I figured it out when I did yeah I I mean I very similarly I think the same thing kind of happened when I met Cody I was very anxious anxiously attached person and

he's very secure and it's definitely a game changer that's for sure how did you guys meet we each met through a friend my friend who I was living with at the time was kind of dating one of his friends from college and so we met through through them but I just I remember like feeling like oh like the kind of the craziness and like the BS that I pull like he's like it's not he doesn't like feed into it in the way that like is definitely not healthy as pretty much everyone else I had dated

did that's exactly right and it's this really interesting moment where you're like oh love doesn't have to be this way right and I think that's what's so hard about the anxious avoidant Loop is that it keeps reinforcing my definition of love my definition of love is I chase you and you pull away your definition of Love is somebody Smothers you and you have to pull back and that just keeps happening and it's not until you see that there's another way of doing it that you realize that it doesn't have to be that way it would

almost be like if you took cold showers your whole life and then you took a warm shower You' be like wait this was available the whole time totally you have to experience something to know that it exists and do you think that there's like cuz I ever since I started dating Cody and when I remember when we first started dating I felt comfortable enough to kind of explain to him like what was going on in my head and like why I was sending these crazy texts or like what exactly was happening that was making me

get to this point that's like making me explode that like I don't really get to anymore luckily but do you think that it's more of a self soothing thing or do you think it's good to explain those things to the person that you're dating and like see like they to not so much like wait for them to do something about it but just like so that they know what's going on so that they don't just just think that do you just think it's something that you should be vocal about yeah I think that there's a

right and wrong way to do it so I think the right way to do it is when you're sharing like hey here's what was going on for me yesterday so it's almost like when you're in a cool State you're not in a hot State you can be like yesterday when I asked you what time we should meet up and then I didn't hear from you for three hours these are all the things that went through my head like he's not interested in me anymore he met somebody else he doesn't respect me he doesn't even care

enough to respond and like all those things went through my head and then it started making me feel like more nervous and but maybe this is a little too much to share but you know something along the lines of like when I didn't hear from you yeah it made me feel unsure about how you felt about me and so I really appreciate when you text me back right away especially when we're making plans so it's kind of like if you've heard of non-violent communication just sort of saying like when you did this thing this is

how it made me feel here's my request and I think that if you do it from a cool state where you're letting somebody in you're basically saying like this is how I'm wired here's how you can help me I think when people get it wrong is when you blame someone like you shouldn't have communicated that way it's like no I don't really think there's a should and a shouldn't that was what they said and it didn't land with you I also feel like emotional vulnerability is such a great part of letting somebody in we've done

a lot of research on this at hinge that 93% of people would rather date someone who's emotionally available and vulnerable that's very attractive on first dates but only 32% of people are doing this and that's because it's like we're afraid to let someone in because we think that they'll see our imperfections but it's actually our imperfections that make people feel connected to us and so you really want to be able to lower your walls and let them in but you also don't want to be TMI and like sharing like every trauma that's ever happened to

you so I do think that it's a learn skill which is hey like here's my experience here's what's going on for me yesterday when this happened like it didn't feel great but it's also not being it's not sharing too much too soon because I also think that that can read as kind of em like inappropriate to people yeah yeah I get that when you have been with someone for a long time because I feel like we get a lot of questions about this and also I've had like friends talk to me about certain situations in

their lives where it's like something has bothered them in their relationship ship multiple times something has happened and they' it's been this conversation and a lot of people think like I don't want to keep bringing this up because I don't want my partner to get annoyed that I'm still talking about this thing but it's still bothering me and I'm always under the impression that like if something is still bothering you you have every right to bring it up until like you're not until you are not bothered I don't know but like how do you handle

those kind of situations where your partner is acting a certain way that you don't like and you don't but you don't want to them to think them you don't want to bother quote unquote bother them because I think there's only one way out of a certain situation like that and it's like through communication but what do what do you think yeah I think you know in terms of how you asked the question like I totally agree I think if something's consistently bothering you if you just pretend it's not happening that's not going to work because

resentment will just build up over time right that's one of the big things that the research on this shows so really some of the people that have done the best research in this are John and Julie gotman of the Gman Institute and they've done research on what makes couples who are successful in in happy relationships versus what's going on with couples who get divorced or are unhappily married and a big part of it is how much are you connecting so when I say to you hey I just read an interesting article listen to an interesting

podcast that's a bid that's a bid for us to connect and you can either turn towards my bid and say hey what was the podcast about or you can turn away from the bid and be and just ignore me or yes I just heard about this recently yeah it's really great research and so in each of these situations it's like daily moments of Are We turning towards each other or away from each other build great relationships or build relationships with resentment and so when your friends are feeling not heard or there's an issue going on

that is a moment where they're not turning towards each other and so I would say to them certainly choose your moment like not before they're in a big meeting or not when you're out to dinner with your friends but you know go for a walk go for a drive and say like hey this has been on my mind and it only felt share it only felt fair to share it with you when this happens this is how I feel and hopefully their partner will be into it and try to solve it but also if they

keep ignoring them or saying that's not a big deal or gasl them unfortunately that's information that that person needs to know because maybe this isn't a great long-term partner if they can't really address conflict and conflict is a very natural part of any relationship yeah yeah I think that's important for people to remember because I also think that a lot of times people there will be conflict and it's I know people who like will think oh well that just means that something's wrong like it shouldn't have conflict we shouldn't have conflict we should just be

getting along but I don't think that that's sustain I mean that's never going to be possible like you're never going to have a relationship where there's not conflict yeah it's not about finding a relationship where you don't fight it's about finding a relationship where you fight well right I totally agree that was my one like in a relationship question but something else I get asked a lot about is long distance relationships I have a lot there's a lot of people who listen who they're both going to like different College but they're trying to make it

work and people ask for tips on these long dist relationships do you have any long dist relationship tips I don't know but I figured I should ask because I get asked a lot yeah long- dist relationships are tough I think one of the things that I coach people on is paying attention to Love Languages and just understanding that like if somebody's love language is physical touch and you're far apart that will be hard but what can you do to make up for it and if there's there is quality time like how can you create quality

time even when you're far apart and so nothing groundbreaking here but I just think like validating that long-distance relationships are really hard it's easier when there's a light at the end of the tunnel when you know okay we're going to intern in the same city or when we graduate we're both going to move here but other than that I would say just make sure that you're constantly choosing this relationship and that this is the relationship you want to be in and that you're not just like staying with somebody because you have been staying with them

like I think especially when you're younger I think it's really important for people to get different experiences and I want I don't want people to look back on their college and be like oh I regret that I wasn't even that present at my college because I was mostly visiting my boyfriend two states away right do you think that it's okay just to end things with someone simply because you want to like experience different things I think I don't know if it's misconception or not but there is a an idea that if someone is like okay

I just I want to see I want to experience my college or I want to experience this time in my life single they're kind of disregarding their love like that means that they didn't love you like if he he would choose you every time if it was you know that type of thing do you think that that's true or can you really love someone but you also like can both of those things coexist at one time I think it's hard and I I definitely think this depends on age so like when people are younger I

do feel like it's important to get different experiences and to figure out like who are you when you're with this person who are you with that person and so I'm not anti- longdistance relationships but I am Pro people getting experiences in my work I've categorized people into these three types of daters and they all have different expectations they all have issues with expectations so the first one is the romanticized and they have unrealistic expectations of relationship so they're like I'm going to meet my soulmate it's going to be love at first sight it's going to

be easy and I work with them on understanding like all relationships take work the second type is the maximizer and they have unrealistic expectations of their partner and they're like oh I'm going to find the perfect person I just have to keep searching there's always going to be somebody better out there and they're always looking and the third type is the hesitat where they have unrealistic expectations of themselves and they're like oh I could never date right now I'm not I'm not good enough I haven't lost weight I don't have a cool enough job and

they're not even putting themselves out there yeah so for people who are maximizers in college that might look like well I'm going to keep breaking up with people to have more experiences in their mid 20s it might be like well she's great but I could find someone hotter so I'm going to break up with her and so it could be the beginning of an unhealthy pattern where you're always trying to trade up or it could be a genuine thing which is like I'm young I find it distracting to mostly be on the phone or FaceTiming

with someone far away and I do love you and what we had was great but the right thing for me now is to really be present in the experience that I'm in which is where I'm going to school yeah with those three types of daters is there kind of cuz I'm sure people listening resonate with one of those types is there kind of like a quick little thing that you would recommend to each of those to maybe yeah sure yeah so people can take the quiz on my website if they want to I think it's

logan.com quiz they can figure out what they are but I would say it's like the the kind of most dominant thing that could help you recognize yours is like the hesitat if you're a hesitat you're not dating right now you have a story in your head that's all be ready to date when dot dot dot and there's always something so if you're not dating and you're holding yourself back you could be a hesitat or the romanticized it's really focusing on things like we had this amazing how we met story or they look exactly like how

I imagine my soulmate to look it's very much like a story in your head maybe planted there by Disney or romcom you want the relationship to match and then for the maximizer it's constantly this feeling of like who else is out there what else is out there and probably the majority of my clients are I have clients in each of these categories but I do tend to see a lot of maximizers I think just being like in the Bay Area having a lot of clients in New York there's all these people that are like I

go after everything in my job like I want you know the the best job the best apartment like why would I not want the best girlfriend or boyfriend or whoever and it's helping them understand no you can still find somebody great but eventually you have to meet someone and make it into a great relationship you can't just keep searching because then you know you're waiting for something that will never be there and you're actually missing out on like a great potential partner yeah how do you help the hesitates and the romanticizes kind of figure out

the right way to go about dating yeah so for hesitates I really try to say to them don't wait date and I just try to get really tactical with them I'm like what are all the pieces okay you don't have profile pictures CU you're waiting to get professional pictures you don't need that like who cares like let's go through your phone right now and we're going to choose a few pictures and then over the next few weeks ask your friend to go out and take a couple pictures of you like you're going to be online

in three weeks like we're going to get your hinge profile up so just breaking down the pieces some of it is also more psychological like sometimes they work with a therapist on self-love stuff like why do they believe that they're not lovable yet why do they believe they'd only be lovable if they lost weight and kind of breaking down some of those patterns but really it's just throwing them into the deep end and being like you're going to start dating for the romanticizes I talk to them a lot about like what's your goal and if

your goal is a long-term healthy relationship then being so focused on somebody's package that they come in or being so focused on the we met story is actually going to hold you back so let's say you're going to be in a 50-year marriage the day that you met is 00 55% of your total relationship like stop romanticizing the we met story yeah yeah that that makes complete sense I feel like those are all of the questions that I had for you and like all of the things that I get asked a lot that I feel

like having an actual expert to answer is really helpful so I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us and help us out so where can the circlers find you and I know you mentioned your book but if you want to because I'm sure they would love mostly they can find me watching Cody Co milk manner videos me and me as well yes so when I'm not doing that no they can find me on Instagram and Tik Tok at Logan Yuri and my book is how to not die alone and if anyone wants

to figure out their dating tendency they can take the quiz on my website amazing so nice to meet you I really appreciate you taking the time to talk talked to us this was so interesting and so helpful and it was just so nice to meet you yeah thanks for having me and for the great questions and I hope it was helpful to your listeners I'm sure they are going to love it as well so thank you so [Music] much [Applause] and I please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and

services individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or Services referred to in this episode