Inner Circle Trader's 1st Face To Face Sit Down Revealing Market Secrets | SPECULATORS PODCAST EP 19

I listened to a teaching by Larry Williams and he mentioned his he had a workshop that he did in person and he called it the Inner Circle Workshop so I was like that's really cool man Inn Inner Circle that really resonates with me like I want to be on the inner circle you know and then when I actually got in the Inner Circle and learned how these really you know ladies markets really book it's it became obvious that you know I'm I'm Inner Circle Trader now so that was that was the birth of ICT foreign

welcome to a new episode before we get started make sure you show a little love if you're on YouTube subscribe to the channel and hit the Thumbs Up Button if you're on Apple podcast make sure you leave us a review any other platform that you're on whatever the love looks like show a little and then let's get started Mr ICT how are you doing well sir how are you doing really well it's very nice to see you for the first time and it's very nice to have you on I know that we're just jumping on

but as a way of introduction I'll just say it's uh I'm very happy that you're here and thanks for making the time you're very welcome uh this is actually the first time that I've ever done a kind of like a podcast where you you could actually see me okay so you're the first very good good to know and uh we'll we'll break the internet for the first time you've come on then turned on your camera um as we're jumping into things we are in 2023 getting ready to start our kickoff should I say the end

of January here how has 2023 been for you so far I don't really start trading live again until the first Tuesday of February but I've been active with the community I've been teaching on the channel I've been calling moves on Twitter daily so um I'll leave the viewers to check on that themselves outside of trading everything going well for um I guess just the rest Health family everything else I'm blessed I'm absolutely blessed we moved into a new home this is my trading office at the moment but it's still unpacking so brand new yeah all

my screens are behind this laptop and everything over here is unfinished still so I have a lot of things to basically unpacks though oh very interesting okay then it's a exciting time to be ICT getting space that's always nice are you moving into the same state or have you made like a a like a large move the same state in fact it's basically like 15-20 minutes away from the house I still own oh okay so just down the uh just down the road then yeah very cool um I'll tell you if it's okay I know

we're in the middle of a day um potentially not trading live but I know you have other things to do and so if we could jump into the interview Parks I really would would like to take very good advantage of the time that we have together and by way of um maybe introduction I think I don't want to spend too much time going over just your story because I know I think it's been told a lot but for for people listening this conversation and even for me to make sure I have it straight um maybe

I can go over a few points and then we can just spend a few minutes talking about the the beginning years of your trading Journey because I think you're very fascinating and and I would like to dive into that just a little bit okay very good I'll assume okay uh starting off in your trading this was for you in the the early 90s is when you got started um you were introduced to trading or at least what really sparked it for you from what I understand was an online advertising or uh online an in Magazine

advertisement and if you could talk a little bit about what that was like specifically maybe before you saw that advertisement were you intrigued by markets or before that moment was the idea of of being involved as a Trader not even on the radar as a child I I grew up as a teenager with an uncle that's he got started trading commodities and he had a a bit of luck with the sugar Market and when I was 13 the summer of the year I was 13 going into 14 years old every Sunday our family would get

together and he would come over and say look Michael when you get out of school get yourself a degree get a good job and start trading Futures and options the richest people in the world trade Futures and options and of course as a typical 13 year old 14 year old it was going in one area out the other I really wasn't intrigued At All by it but it was being constantly hammered every Sunday from that age on and I went to work for a Jewish Family in Owings Mills and I was calling vending machines and

Care machines and I was fascinated with the cash aspect of that business and I was like I want to be an entrepreneur and one of the days I came home from doing my route I was waiting for my Ben Boss to count all the revenue I had collected from the machines and he had an entrepreneur Magazine on his desk and I'm so embarrassed to ask him if I could look at it and finally I just worked up the courage you know Glenn can I can I look at this you can have it so I took

it home and I said the story a lot but I'll give you a real brief rendition of it at the back of the magazine it had a small little classified ad said Real Money real people and it gave like a couple things like 800 to 32 000 in six months fifteen hundred dollars into 9 000 and something you know I don't have to notice exactly there's something to that effect call this 1-800 number and get in your details so I did and it turned out to be Ken Roberts uh commodity course and it was a

looking back it was a poorly written introduction to trading that I bought Hook Line and Sinker and I immediately went with one of the Brokers that he recommended which was Fox Investments and my first Soiree in it I lost 50 of my money on the very first trade trade and orange juice option so that was my introduction to trading and I knew that because I was incorrect and I lost 50 of my money overnight someone took my money so that's somebody I I set out to be that person so it was a motivational thing it

was depressing at first but it turned into a fevered pursuit to become that other person on the other side of the trade right on very good now when you began trading this was early mid 90s from what I understand today it's stupid easy to set up account if you want to begin trading and you choose to go down that road you could start trading live the day you decide that you want to be a Trader what was it like in early 90s to try and set up an account and to trade or was it difficult

to get a trading package was it difficult to get live data was this like a real pain point or what was the process like well back then it felt like Cutting Edge because when we were coming up with internet at the time um Internet America Online was the thing and I used a charting package called metastock which was it wasn't the top tier thing train station was and Super Truck to us at the time and I had access to them as well but I preferred metastop and the way I had to get the data was

it was a end of day download so the only thing live I had was a quote track which was like a for some of you newer folks listening it won't make any sense to you but it was like a small little handheld transistor radio with a extendable antenna and it would have real-time quotes going across the screen for all the markets I would subscribed to and I would have that duct taped to my windshield of my truck and I'm doing my route watching this thing and literally trading with pay phones so it took three four

weeks to get your account opened up sometimes with some of these Brokers because you have to verify you the whole business everything was buy through mail and then when you called your orders in it wasn't like we have a click of a button and we could get in an order and get out like you have to call wait for them to answer the phone get the desk that you're on then wait for them to confirm that your account is who you're the person that owns the account and then give the order then then they read

the order back to you the whole time the Market's trading the whole time the Market's fluctuating so it's a totally different atmosphere for Traders today that have come from that era yeah yeah uh wildly different it's a it's a good time to be a Trader what uh what a difference it was not that long ago but we are blessed I guess too be dealing with what we have now okay so one of the things that I found really fascinating about you is is early on you we're getting involved in markets when there was a primary

Bull Run going on and you went on a pretty substantial nine month winning streak and uh of just being profitable during a time that I think you would attribute it to good luck where the market was running up you were taking Longs and it was maybe a little bit difficult to even lose money and I would be interested if you could talk a little bit about that experience because I think that everybody in their trading Journey gets introduced at some point to easy money or some some some substantial wins kind of early on and a

lot of times this can be the worst thing that could happen because it really clouds the line between how easy it is to make money as a Trader which to be fair it is you push a button it's going to go up or down and confusing that for being easy and messing up how difficult it is to do that consistently um and if I look at my own experience there were certain uh trades that I was involved with the same thing similar to your story of just good luck but they they you know gave me

a false idea but having a nine month run is astounding um and so if you could talk about what that was like as an early Trader and how that went on for so long or you know if you quit your job in between or if you you know what what how you handle that situation well most of the trades I I took were based on buying and going long and I didn't understand short selling at all in fact it scared me to death because I I attributed to any Market would be going down that's a

loss and sure knowing knowing what I sound like and what I teach today and knowing where I came from uh there is a total amazing Divide from what I thought I knew back then and what I understand about myself and and the market today so when I was looking at markets in 1992 when I first started and one trade one transaction in 1992 that's all there was that was in and out and done because that one option trade and I went in my mind thinking I'm going to go into the books and learn how to

do this and I I like the idea of using an hourly chart and a stochastics overbought and I looked for markets that had a upsloping 50-day moving average so it was very it was really simple it was really simplistic and you know anything that's moving up and it's strongly moving up where it's almost like it's not I don't want to say guarantee because nothing in terms guaranteed but the fact that I was in markets that were already predisposed to go up I was attributing my accuracy if you want to call it that because I don't

like to call it accuracy now because it was just blind luck okay that buying of an oversold condition with a bullish Divergence and a stochastic on an hourly chart and then buying them you know buying the market want to stop so I would buy the market when it was moving in my favorites so many times it had already moved you know high grade copper you know wheat soybeans they were moving sometimes 10 you know 10 cents you know before the move actually got me in today I would never trade like that I would never trade

that one in fact I'd like to be buying when the Market's dropping against me you know I want to see the opposing direction to my trade Direction in terms of profit early on I listened to uh folks Like Larry Williams who is the legendary he he taught in his courses that buying strength was you know the way to go and because I was a fanboy and at heart I still am um I adopted that mindset and unfortunately it tricked me into thinking that my early consistency was skill and then it turned around on me and

every time I got into another trade it was just no no denied denied and it was going down and because I was fearful of Short Selling or even understanding I didn't even want to delve into the topic because I felt like in the stock market is predisposed to go up everybody's told to put their money into 401K everyone buys buys Buys so why should I even be worrying about being a short seller just do one trick pony approaches to trading and simplify it for myself but unfortunately it closed my mind to understanding where the real

risks were because if you don't understand where the markets are likely to go into a correction or sell Market or you know bearish Market your you're you're not really equipped to be trading you're not really in a position to be incurring risk and I found that out the hard way sure sure during that time were you able to to make withdrawals and and actually pocket money or were you rolling everything over and then did you end up just actually losing everything for your first night or for those for that nine month period I ran up

and then all of a sudden losing trade losing trade losing trade and then the inevitable happened you know the the I think I know I'm gonna do it better I'm going to do more leverage I'm not going to use a stop loss this time and the nine months just went gone yeah so it was it was nothing I I ran out nine months and took it home it was I had the experience it was exhilarating but I wasn't able to take it home and do anything because I was in my mind I'm trying to get

to a million because if I could get to a million I can quit my job when I didn't need to do that what I needed to do was just stick to my original plan was find one that's up per week not I'm gonna go in every single day because now it looks like everything goes up every day and it's it wasn't like that at all it turned around like that on me yeah fascinating time to begin your trading journey in such a uh such a long environment of the same thing and I imagine that was

just a shell shock when that environment went away making the adjustments and everything else so it's a it's also a fascinating thing to me on your early years of posting you um got approached by a government agency um and they from what I understand you were giving out Financial advice um without a license and and things were probably a little bit different back then as well could you just speak briefly about that and kind of like what happened did you actually get in trouble or maybe how long it was before you felt comfortable posting again

to to so that you didn't bring on more yeah your way it was the commanding Futures chicken commission yeah it was during the time of the mid 90s I had a fouling that was growing on America online and I was posting things about the marketplace and I was calling Market moves and I did not understand the legalities of what it was I was doing I didn't have any risk disclaimer that was where I was wrong um I didn't talk about how you know you could lose more money than you have so one day you know

I was renting a room for my aunt and uncle because I was residing with at the time one that was coming up and I got knock on the door and well-dressed young man says I'm looking for Michael Huddleston and I said uh I'm him boom you've been served Japan runs back to his car I'm like what is this and it said Washington DC and the whole County future trading Mission it was more or less them saying you know you got to give us all of your emails all of your your laptop everything everything you got

to present it to us and you got to come out here and see us and as state would have it um my laptop actually died the day before so I had nothing to provide for them and I ended up calling and they just basically from saying looking at what you're doing you can't do it you're not even risk you're not even providing risk displaying or nothing I said okay well I'm gonna make this real easy for you I'm just gonna stop because I don't know what I'm doing in terms of this guy because I thought

it was freedom of speech we don't have freedom of speech in this this is not freedom of speech so I had to more or less just stop doing what I was doing and but the passion in me like I wanted to I wanted to teach like I wanted to share it I wanted I wanted to help other people because I knew how passionate I was when I was learning how to do it so I think it was maybe I don't know a year and a half I still slowly crept back on the scene but I

was constant disclaimers constantly it was obnoxious all the disclaimers I had but um they subpoenaed AOL on anybody that ever instant messaged me and everything but nobody lost any money to have a damaging you know thing to me so everything that I called much like they've been seeing this year it's it's pretty much you know spot on and I'm thankful for that but yeah that was a scary situation because you know they threaten you with you five years in prison and the 500 000 fine and you know but I wasn't harming anybody but what I

was doing was this is how I look at it I was talking about something before it happened and it happened and my observance of things like that if you're if you're over the target you're not supposed to be over the target this this many times and boundaries and barriers will be put up and that's how I interpreted it today you might not feel that because everybody feels like they have an open market where at least go out there and click a button and there it is but most time retail Traders are not consistent they're not

able to find consistency and when someone stands out from the crowd and it's obvious they don't get the privilege to be able to stay Anonymous they they will be reached out and touched and I had that from the federal government and I have you learned a lesson from that I don't want to have the no problem that's why I've always taught openly from a demo account and a lot of people have an issue with that but you know you're basically trading a demo account with funded accounts like you're you're doing that anyway so if you

can't read price action whether it be through the medium of a demo that's using live data or if you're trading with a live account it matters not if the logic is utilized yeah the same approach is going to be used whether you trade with a live account or not I enjoy the privilege to be a teacher and the safety of using it through the medium of a demo account so that way invariably someone's going to listen to what I'm going to say and if you go to just go look at Twitter I tell them all

the time don't follow what I'm telling you to do and they're posting I made this much money off what you said great you know thank you Dad you know and that type of stuff is not I don't want that but if you have someone that's going to follow you and not do all the rules not have all the discipline that's required wait around not take the entry like it should be wait for what they're going to think is confirmation then they're going to chase the market then they're not going to use the same stop loss

that I would have used because now it's the larger incurred risk if they get stopped out they're going to use a tighter stop loss and they're going to get stopped out and they're going to have a realized loss so who they're going to blame they're going to blame me so I preach and promote the idea of teaching through a demo and I understand and I accept the fact that some people are not going to find that helpful but there's a real reason and and I'm trying to prevent that from reoccurring yeah very fascinating experience and

I can imagine how scary that must have been especially young yes those kind of you know just the government in general but especially those kind of uh those kind of consequences so it's also fascinating just looking at life how one thing going differently just would have changed everything one if that would have went a little bit differently for you and you would have spent five years in jail like what a different uh life out of that one you know one seemingly small thing very very interesting um now I've heard you say before and I would

agree that you just had a very fascinating and even to that point kind of a guided path um and I heard you say this before that the it's incredible how everything in your life is lined up do you attribute that to um potentially luck or something along the line of you manifested it do you believe that it was a God or The God that has guided your life do you have thoughts on this this is another controversial subtech matter that I have no shame in telling you and I understand that some of your viewers and

I'm not sure how you stand with this as well but uh I have a lot of students all around the world that come from different walks of life some of them are faith-based some of them are Muslim some of them are Jewish some of them are atheists um I am of the opinion that faith and a Creator is the number one reason why I am able to do what I can do um because I worked very very hard to try to figure this stuff out and I had a I had a several experiences that would

be otherwise referred to as out of this world type thing and it's very spiritual I've been trying to work up the courage to to present it publicly I have done it to my private mentorship group and unfortunately it has been leaked and people have used it to control me and such but uh I am of a very strong opinion that there is a God I believe that Jesus Christ was and is that God and it's not my point to preach to anybody but if I'm asked then I have to be ready to give that testimony

and that's what I'm doing here um have I ever heard the voice of God yes I have uh I have had things shown to me I've had instructions given to me where my life was preserved because I listened to that very thing at the very moment um I've had instruction given to me and every time I listen to it I've been very thankful and blessed for it when I haven't listened to it it cost me unnecessary pain and struggle so I am not your typical um I'm kind of like the Peter of the gospels you

know sometimes I have foot and mouth disease I open my mouth up I put my foot in it so I'm not a really good uh poster boy for Christianity and I don't believe that we have to go to a church to do that I think it's necessary for some people but I have a relationship with Christ I am a sinner I cuss I I lose my temper sometimes because I'm chemically imbalanced and I don't make apologies for that because I I can't change those things and I try to do things as best as I can

but to answer your question in short yes I do believe I had an experience that helped direct me in my path and preserved me from going in the direction that two gentlemen would rather me had gone yeah very well said and thank you for uh opening up on that I'll tell you there's been with just questions that I've asked already there's probably been like three or four topics that it's very hard for me just to move on after you reply but for the sake of uh the first time we've ever talked I think and trying

to be respectful of not frying too much into your personal life um I appreciate what you have shared and it's it's fascinating to hear so uh moving on I think that again this is probably a lot of just introduction about you and it's been nice to get to know you and I I'm sure people will appreciate this conversation I think that when it comes to your actual trading this is something that is you have put so much out there in in terms of series that are just readily available on your your channel you've been posting

for a very long time on YouTube you have a massive YouTube following and I think even in other um interviews you've spoken in depth about your your style I don't think there's any reason to to maybe beat that up or to to use our time to go over that because I think it's very available if people are interested at all um could you maybe though just give like an elevator pitch of how you would say your style is or your approach to trading and then um people that would like to resonate with that who maybe

for some reason have lived under a rock and don't know who you are um you know they can be directed to your your YouTube channel where you have a lot of resources okay if you have tried using everything that's in books there's a lot of Educators out there that are well-meaning they may be even profitable and you may have tried those approaches to Trading and you just feel like there's something there's a disconnect you can't make it work or it's inconsistent and it it doesn't really deliver the storyline as to why price does what we

see price do on a day by day basis and that's largely a tribute to how markets are booked and delivered algorithmically so what I try to communicate to my listeners and unfortunately it comes by way of a very drawn out dry discussion which is what coding and algorithmic theory is unfortunately there's no way for me to sugarcoat it I guess if I was showing Lamborghinis and you know the fast track and then splicing in like 10 minutes of you know the things I talk about it would be more palatable for for most folks but to

me I've never been a a supporter of that approach I like the idea of knowing why I'm doing something in the marketplace why should the price go up why shouldn't price go down why should the market not hit your stop loss see with over 2 000 books in my library I have literally probably read everything that you could ever come across in terms of technical analysis approaches you know anything in trading I've already tried all that stuff and what I've done is tried to communicate in a way where I can take you and anyone else

into the marketplace and show how the the algorithm itself is going to the lower price and it's a large body of viewers and opponents to what it is I talk about in trading they'll say there is no algorithm that there is no algorithm and it's important for someone to really take a look at what I'm presenting because when you do that it's very very difficult to argue how buying and selling pressure agrees with the very levels that I teach that either holds price at Bay or it reaches to it right to the tick and my

my only challenge to the listeners has always been don't believe me because I said it go in look for the things that I'm teaching and see if it doesn't manifest itself in the charts because it does every single day and I've done this now for 26 years and I've done one-on-one teachings I've done group teachings now I've done you know mentorships and now I'm doing it publicly and the folks that have arm wrestled the idea of the markets being algorithmic or not um and I think everyone understands that there are algorithms in the marketplace trading

sure but the way that markets are booked and delivers price has nothing to do with buying and selling pressure the volume is looked at in a way where it's a red herring the only thing volume is is useful in terms of my understanding about Christ is I want a lot more volume coming in because they're going to use that volume to take them and place them where they want in the marketplace my question to you is this how many contracts would you Aaron expect it to require for the s p to move 10 handles and

handles how many contracts oh um I would guess thousands okay I wouldn't have an accurate number for this how about five handles how many you want to take half of the thousands that it would take to go ten okay when we have our session end at five o'clock and it resumes at six o'clock and we have our Gap how many contracts does it take to have that first print right at six o'clock when the first trade hits the market we see the opening price how many contracts did it take to make that one yeah so

when we when you take a step back and you say okay what happens when we had these big sudden movements when fomc comes out or CPI or any any Market driver that comes out that was the big red flag to me that hey I was thinking I had to see a lot of volume to keep seeing a trend continue when that's not necessarily the right way of looking at it you need to see where the market will likely go to so in my presentations I teach approach to attacking liquidity just like the algorithm is allowing

people with the idea that I'm implementing and teaching they go in and they cannibalize the marketplace they don't go in looking for patterns to be profitable they're looking for where the orders are above old highs there's buy stops below old lows their cell stops where is it most likely in obviously where is it reaching for on a higher time frame chart if you can Peg that and it's pretty easy I've taught that many times in in many of the series I put on my YouTube channel if you trade with that mindset and just simply look

for how the market continuously supports itself every time a down closed candle forms and it's likely to go up to a bonsai local people those down closed candles will act just like you are expecting your support resistance to offer support to the marketplace and when it creates these little guests I call a fairway guy it comes down and goes into that you can reasonably expect the algorithm to start repricing and spooling higher it reached to that liquidity pool over the course of a day or over the course of the session and it takes a couple

months to spend time studying it and you will quickly believe that there is absolutely an algorithm that's controlling price to the tick and it's it's fascinating it's it's a wonderful story even if you don't want to subscribe to the idea entirely if you just go in and just approach price action study with these ideas in mind you will see clearly that there's much more than trend lines and harmonic patterns and things that Nelly leave all that stuff I believe and I leave it to the viewer to make the final determination on whether this is true

for them or not I believe they're distractions and that's what I like about I I like about you as a YouTuber because you have something that you implement you have something that you you teach and your your community doesn't go out like I'm accused though many times I'm superior and everybody else is so you know substandard I like your approach because you have a way that is charming it's not adversarial that's the reason I'm even talking to you because there's a lot of people that have asked for this uh well I won't give it to

them but I think that even though I don't subscribe to the way you trade or even interpret price action I believe that your personality your approach to doing what it is that you do is a breath of fresh air because it's it's exactly what I I try every time I go out there and try to do the live sessions or whatever I try to have a demeanor like yours but I can't stay balanced long enough and then my experience my distaste for what goes on in this industry revs me up and I'll say things because

I've seen something that I've fallen victim to and when I teach in the way I teach in my my series I'm actually talking to my children they're like little like my life you know Michael Keaton movie I'm recording things so that way if anything ever happens to me they hear it from me it's not like writing a book and they can say your dad wrote this book they can hear me talking to them they can hear it and I think that if anyone goes to my channel and just puts down all their preconceived notions about

what they believe about price action what they do what they like about me what they heard about me just put that aside for a moment go in and try to debunk what I said she treat that as a challenge go on there and see if the things that I'm talking about aren't in fact the very things that's going on and it's going to be 180 degrees diametrically opposed to everything you can read in books you look at volume you look at Price action patterns you look at you know trend lines and moving average Crossings all

those things they may be factors that you can identify when the move are moves are occurring or after they occurred but that was not the Catalyst that causes the price to move and reprice to where it's going to go and my my challenge to the viewers are always this if I was using something other than the things I'm talking about what is it and why can't it be replicated somewhere else using retail logic and I've used that as a marketing pitch so I've never advertised I've never done anything but every all of my growth is

organic and I'm blessed I'm so thankful that that so many people find what it is I do engaging and helpful but sometimes I have been guilty of being a little bit of um abrasive to other approaches and sometimes I've done it to just get the the crowd route up because that will get them talking and that's how I've used that organic growth where I don't have to advertise I get people talking and they get offended they come over to my group and they say well my my method does this and my method does that the

fact that they're talking gets the conversation started and that's how I've grown so I very I created a polarizing approach to teaching I've maintained a polarizing persona and it allows me to filter out the people that really want to learn because if they if they're showing up every day and they're putting their work in and they're tweeting to me or they're putting videos up using the things I've taught they're convinced and that's who I'm talking to that's my audience I'm not really talking to the folks out there that don't like me or or think that

what I'm talking about is contrived that's fine I'm using them to help grow my channel but I'm not affected by any of them and so I think that in one sentence I teach how Traders can utilize the idea of liquidity and how the Market's really Book price without any retail logic you said a so much that I wanted to comment on there and I think I'll end it with that little blurb that you gave because I think that was very succinct and the best you could put that into a sentence because for all the reasons

you said but encourage everybody as well and we'll link it obviously but to go visit your YouTube channel where you have a lot um before I move on because you just started to kind of introduce the idea of your um position in the marketplace and really the brand that is ICT can I ask because it is one of the most interesting things uh many of the interesting things about you what was the birth of Inner Circle trading what was the birth of ICT the the brand name or me being ICT himself I think the The

Branding the the that Persona that you have that the what has become an insane brand um and such a recognizable logo and uh uh uh three letters um what was the birth of that I was it I was at a local park here in Maryland it's gunpowder State Park I used to go there every weekend I would take headphones a hammock and I would hang it between two trees right by the lids of the water and I would sit there and either listen to an audiobook or I would listen to back then it was all

cassette takes by the way but I would uh I would be listening to something that had nothing really to do with trading and I would try to calm myself because I had anxiety a lot and I listened to a teaching by Larry Williams and he mentioned his he had a workshop that he did in person and he called it the Inner Circle Workshop so I was like that's really cool man Inn Inner Circle that really resonates with me like I want to be on the inner circle you know and then when I actually got in

the interviewer go and learned how these really you know these markets really book it's it became obvious that you know I'm I'm Inner Circle trigger now so that was that was the birth of ICT very interesting along the way I feel that you have a lot of very unique phrases and Concepts that you've coined that have become extremely popular do you have any rough estimate how many different concepts you've coined uh and and developed over the years um I'm not quite sure I thought I knew what you were saying but give me an example of

one of those that way I know what you're asking so in my opinion and maybe I'm even wrong about this but things like fair value Gap would be something that you created yes and I think that there's a Litany of things that people just use and I think I before I was even introduced to you have heard so many people talk about that I didn't even know came from you but they did is there is it like you have like five core ideas or is it like 30 different things that you've coined over the years

that people just took I have things that my family know I've created an authored and codified but um I guess maybe about around 20 or so that I think the public is at least heard me mention at least once or twice but I got about uh about 80 specific things that the algorithm will do that I'm not going to divulge all that stuff publicly but uh I I believe that if a Trader just picks up on one of those subtle nuances in price action that could be your entire core model and you don't need to

do anything but that or you could do a breaker which is a simple after stop run it returns back to a specific candle not a range or a Zone but a very specific candle and then you use the same logic I mentioned earlier where you have to know where the Market's likely to go where's the pool liquidity it's going to go to if it's not going to go to liquidity it's going to go to a premium in Balance which would be equipped to like a fair value Gap it sounds very complicated because what complicates it

is the language because I wish I wish there was some book because I I told my wife my kids many times I was like there's a lot of times I'm thankful that I started teaching but then there's a lot of times I wish I would have never started because even even when I think I'm close to ending it and I'm I'm satisfied for what I brought to the community a new wave of people come and they show their excitement for wanting to learn and I'm that's infectious to me like I wanna I wanna cater to

that so it's like I I don't see me stopping until I'm dead okay but I know for certain I'm not going to release everything because the things that I'm holding back I just don't want to do that but the things I've taught um it's interesting to see how folks have ran with it and it's it's nothing sort of a phenomenal I'm impressed by it myself for sure do you have an idea of approximately how many people have ripped off your trainings um a lot I know there is a large institution out there that was a

multi-level marketing company that had lots of their mentors and teachers that were promoting it and they would teach verbatim whatever I taught and they would keep the idea that it came from me away from them so yeah I could sit here and name drop a lot of people but I I I get it okay I get what they do I get what they're doing and all I'm asking is listen you asked earlier in the conversation in the interview you said was there a turning point you know was it faith-based the fact that I am able

to have this information that it was entrusted to me I only ask for people to credit me because when they hear me say where I got it from it releases all the credit to me because without Christ I would have never been able to be able to have this and that's the reality because the way my life was laid out in in the places I ended up the people I met the circumstances that I was kept from falling victim to that's that's Christ him like there's no way about any other way like I didn't earn

this I worked very hard to try to figure this stuff out and it wouldn't ever work it was like a barrier like no you can get so far and it's known so I understand that you know in an industry like this everybody rips off stuff all the time and it happens all the time and I don't want the glory I don't want the theme I don't want to lift me up on a pedestal type thing that's why I don't like being called the king or the goat I can't stand that I can't I cannot stand

that that's Pride I I'm I'm not that type of person I'm not wired that way at 20 years old we're going to Miracle of mine I was I was that guy I wanted all that stuff but I don't want that now but if I could get folks to just just give the respect that it's the it's it's just the right it's just the right thing because when they hear me say where I got it from I'm putting down all of the chance for me to receive praise I don't want that I'm just the vessel I'm

the instrument that is a conduit for other people to enjoy what it is that's been gifted to me that's all that's all I'm asking for I don't want to be looked up as a as a legend and all that stuff if I help other people wonderful if you sell stuff that has my information in it just say hey I was inspired by ICT that's it that's all I'm asking because if they're going to look into me they're gonna say oh this guy teaches for free oh and he says yeah and he honors and gives all

the glory to Christ and that's all I want it's the only reason why I want to speak that way recently have you've been through a bit of rebranding I noticed specifically like on your YouTube channel it's uh your thumbnail is different has was this something calculated or was it just a decision I have a follower on Twitter and forgive me I I I don't right now put on the spot I don't know what his handle is to be able to you know do whatever but uh he actually created it and he took a picture that

I posted of myself on my Twitter feed he took it and did some kind of like overlays and such which I thought was really cool looking and it had my own you know ICT logo in it I said well I'm I'm gonna just just use that that's that's awesome but um the logo itself the the uh infinite Dynamic Fibonacci circles that everybody knows my logo from it's everywhere now like it's everywhere and a lot of people use it for their own avatar on social media um some of them will impersonate me so this way it's

like you know I'm gonna start putting my face with this now instead of just some you know abstract Fibonacci sequence of circles on a on a logo so it wasn't that I was really trying so much to Rebrand but I wanted to come away from the the fun I had with all the people that were taking my course material and rebranding it because I would call myself the mentor of mentors and it was my way of like Thumb in the eye all the folks that won't give me the credit for it but they eventually were

exposed when I when I brought all my material public but uh yeah that's that's pretty much you know all I gotta say about it so you you briefly touched on just that I'll say iconic ICT logo that is very recognizable probably up there with like a popular brands uh what was the how did you come up with that as your logo did you create it did somebody create it that you pay to have it created what was the birth of and maybe why specifically that sequence of of Fibonacci circles there is a certain set of

numbers in that logo that is uh characteristic to a lot of things I do in my own personal algorithm and because of that sequence and those numbers being what they are it's it's like the science behind how I interpret price runs and it's also the science behind the aspect of time so when I teach and I trade with elements of time and price time being the first Factor before I even consider taking a trade because there's certain times the algorithm is going to do specific things and unless I know what that time is and I'm

not going to be in front of the charts at that at that moment then there's no trade price itself will behave a certain way at that specific time and the numbers that is used for these price runs algorithmically are actually in that logo very fascinating I think the I am the mentor to your mentor was brilliant and that's very recognizable to you also ghost in the machine yes what does ghost in the machine mean to you when you spend time with me and the things that I talk about and codified is the algorithmic theory that

most people are utilizing today making real money with it they will see my fingerprints all over everything that they're implementing in their trading when price is delivering a specific way you're going to think about what it is that you learn from me if you've been mentored by me a casual reader or viewer of the Concepts YouTube channel they're not going to have this experience but the folks that are really pouring themselves in when they're watching price and it behaves exactly as I have one exactly like it's it's to the tick exactly what they were trained

to expect and see they're gonna hear in their head the things that I said at that moment about that very thing in that concept so I'm haunting I'm haunting they're they're whole trade set up I'm in there I'm not in the room with them but because of their memory of what they were trained and expect in the lecturing and the long Jawbone sessions that I give they're going to hear my voice in their thoughts about what it is they're watching so I'm the ghost in the machine the machine is this your head your brain so

I'm the ghost that's haunting every Trader that's been infected by this information I've given out they're utilizing that so I'm the ghost in the machine I love that when you started um putting out ICT and maybe the logo and incredible with The Branding maybe even in the early years was there ever like was this always the goal to do you have a vision that this was something you were going to take to the world this was something that you wanted to have a a true like market share of attention in this space or the fact

that this is spread and your your name and your method has been so widely copied and used and the logo is so predominant everywhere was this at some level shocking to you or was this kind of always your plan hello I'm pouring myself out this year in 2023 and uh my intentions are to be done this year so I don't want to have a long run of you know increasing I guess celebrity I like I don't want to be a celebrity I have a lot of folks that reach out to me on a daily basis

that you want me to do more than I'm already doing build Partnerships and you know go on lecture series and circuits and and do all kinds of things and you know prop funds you know wanting me to train their individuals you know do those types of things you know one-on-one and I never really wanted to go out and become this really big thing I've always teased and trolled when I was on baby Pips I said look when I start really teaching it's going to really blow up I knew once I showed what I'm showing now

that if you want to trade and you see what I do and what my students are able to do you want to trade just like that you want to trade just like that you're not distracted by an indicators you're not distracted by anything but I am very intimidated by the number of people that follow me like when I do a Twitter space and I'm talking live that's an unfiltered ICT and you'll see in here the the bipolarism in me that will swing one way or the other and I've always tried to filter that out in

my teachings because they're they're there and I had to edit it now because I don't want to come across you know imbalanced right so but in the Twitter it seems to be they like that part of me because it it makes me human obviously they can see I'm a real person I'm not AI but I get once I end the stream and I look at how many people who was in those streams which is sometimes is very surprising um it's a little unsettling because it's it's um to me I'm still that kid from Middle River

Maryland you know that grew up in cardboard City that's the name of the that's the neighborhood that we grew up in and it doesn't exist anymore but it was it was just poor housing and to see what the Lord has been able to do with my life and how far my voice has reached out and touched other people's lives now it's it's overwhelming and I'm just so honored and so thankful that I've been given an opportunity to do this but I don't want to I don't want to become bigger than whatever I become this year

that's it and when I'm done I'm going to greet everybody and at the end of the year and say good luck with everything I've given you and have fun with it so that's that's that's always really been my my aim in fact I wanted to stop soon but every time I try to stop a new wave of people I mean hundreds of thousands of content constant emails and you know phone calls people looking up my phone number texting hey you know is this ICT can you can you please just teach me one-on-one I'll give you

twenty thousand dollars right now yeah I mean it's it's nuts but I really have to stop and this year I'm doing everything I can to pour myself out and whoever doesn't get it this year just they're just going to have to study what it is I've put in in the public eye and then and they'll have to get it that way well that'll be a sad day for a lot of people in the community I know I would be interested is maybe one last question about just the ICT brand in general and and it was

fascinating to me because I very much have not been ever interested with social media to the extent that um as I was learning and and even through to now I really just stay in my own lane and there's so much happening in the trading space and in general they just don't know about and through this type of a path it was a very long time before I was ever introduced to you or came across you and since I have um having that on my radar and then now just seeing all of those I guess like

synchronicities of having Q on my radar and seeing how many things have popped up since then I look at it as an outsider as you have inspired something of a um I would say like a a cult-like following of people that would it seemingly go to war for you take a bullet for you um I mean it's it's remarkable actually is that even the idea of having like a cult-like following is that um derogatory at all because I don't mean it that way I mean it with like a a wow factor um but how when

you think of how passionate um most of your community is what are your thoughts on that is it yeah what do you use your thoughts oh you're you're accurate in in both senses of the of the term it is very cult-like uh I didn't set out to have a band of ready at the moment Warriors that literally go and devastate anybody that would say anything negative about me or whatever I've done um I'm glad that it happened at this age because if it would have happened when I was 20 I would have been Reckless with

that um my interpretation of what our community is like imagine if you will folks that have gone through their life up to a point where their own family members have counted them out they've been unsuccessful in everything they've ever tried they are in impoverished Nations they're their degrees they went to school with it hasn't been fruitful for them and they've tried everything and they're at their wits end and then you add on the things that everyone around the world has been contending with for the last three years and I'm not going to say it because

you know what we're talking about here all the things that are are problematic for everyone and everything's expensive everything's hard to obtain and pay for and then you got this person that steps out there and says listen I don't want anything from you except for you to try very hard to do what is I'm going to teach you and when they do that and they hear me I'm talking to them I'm trying to encourage them all the time I absolutely want my students to succeed I I want it many times more than they do there's

no future sales pitch on the other end of it they see that and when they finally are able to be successful and they have done it with their own efforts they've used what they've studied and everybody else told them they're wasting their time and then when they hear and see other people talk bad about what it is that they endured and now they're finding success with certain individuals that have had War scars okay through life themselves they want to represent they want to take and say you know what you are not going to say that

about what I've just went through and who I learned it from and I I love that but I'm not encouraging that and unfortunately some of them I mean I've literally had people say listen I will do whatever you tell me to do I'm like all I'm asking you to do is learn bro it's settle down it's not all that you're doing too much right so you know it's passion yes but it is viewed many times correctly though uh that it is not healthy and it's not healthy in in the scope of the community because I'm

not trying to be the black sheep I am in a lot of ways but I'm trying to just remind everybody that you might trade differently you might be profitable you might be doing something completely outside of things I'm talking about and if you are that's wonderful like when you were doing your live streaming I had uh you know I was nervous now I'm not taking the trades you're you're taking them and I'm putting myself in the position of anyone that does that I have a great respect for that because I can't focus I can't have

someone talking to me asking me questions and when I'm teaching my sons they're right next to me and they're my children My Flesh and Blood and I don't even permit them to even ask me anything what I'm doing because once my concentration is broken that's it so your your community is very mild-mannered they know what you're going to do they know how you're going to talk to them and they know what you're going to present mind is like a carnival I'm bringing all kinds of people and it's a wide array of different types of personalities

and some of them are like yours and others are like right from the streets and they they are savages and and they're ready they're ready to throw down for any reason and it makes it interesting yes but it's a little intimidating back to what I was saying that that's the reason why it's getting too big I can't manage it anymore and it it's has honestly seeped into my personal life um we've had people you know really encroaching on our our private space and time and it's it's not something anybody should endure all because they want

to you know compete instead of doing whatever they want to do organically and grow their own company that way let's say that the day comes maybe the end of this year potentially you uh you tease us like a lot of famous athletes who are set on retiring and then the idea of being out of the game is just too much to bear so they come back but let's just say there will come a day when you hang up the mouse and you walk away from the screens from Trading from teaching from everything what do you

want your I'll say Legacy but the impact that you've had on the trading space you get brought it out to the world what do you imagine that when you when your time actually comes you hang up the mouse that you want to be remembered for and you want people to know that the the this is what the ICT brand brought forward this is what it was all about I don't think there hasn't been a day that's going by since I started teaching that I asked that question of myself like I don't know how I don't

know how to answer that uh sometimes I think I know the answer and then when I say it out loud to myself it it doesn't satisfy like I don't know what the actual answer would be that would make me feel satisfied in the scope and reach that really started me doing this so I'm hoping that the the folks that would be so gracious with their time to to work with the material I produced I I hope that they would recognize the fact that it took a great deal of time and sacrifice on my part to

pour in this month's time because my family actually didn't see me much and for someone that doesn't have a job you would think they should see me more often but I'm always doing something with the community whether it be a private group setting publicly Twitter here with you enjoying myself nonetheless but it's always constantly you know I'm always ICT I'm rarely Michael so I'm hoping they understand that there was a real man a man behind all of this that was a husband a father and I've done as much as I could have done to help

them and that's why I I get upset when when a student will leave and think to themselves it's it's scam it's it doesn't work when I have other people all around the world now I'm proven with real money that's a young man um the quarter of a million dollars last year funded accounts quarter million dollars I got another guy that wants me to interview him he's taken over three hundred thousand dollars that's not minuscule like that's that's change your life kind of money and they want mentorship students that came to me and paid like they

went through like everybody else has gone through right now they're putting their work in and I that's why I ask them all the time like what does it feel like when I ask a student that's finally found profitability and they're making real money I asked them that question can you articulate it in words what does it feel like for you because I can't articulate it in a way where it is satisfying like when you when you find consistency and you and you're trading your your methodology and you're fine on all cylinders and you know that

you're dialed in try right now tell me how that feels for you if I was not a traitor and then understand how that would be satisfying of a explanation to someone that would be a lay audience someone that's not a trick tell me how it feels for Aaron corbs to be dialed in nailing it following his method and just walking out of that week profitable and you know damn well you did well what tell me describe it how does it feel I'll tell you I feel this is a topic that there's I'll give you what

it feels like and to your point what it feels like I don't know if we really have the words or I don't know if I could communicate it either because on the surface it is I'm performing at a good level I've I'm staying disciplined I you know I'm following my rules I am performing well and that feels good that feels there's a certain level of accomplishment tied to that there's a certain level of um of trying to think of the the word but there's a certain level of just feeling accomplished and feeling fulfilled even at

some level yeah but then beyond that there's this understanding of the the Unseen struggles and the hardships and the the times in the dirt to get to this moment that nobody sees nobody knows about and the actual feeling is so much bigger than what I can describe and there's no way for anybody else to experience it unless they've had a similar hard journey that they've gone through they could at least relate to [Music] that very difficulties you just had trying to explain it I understand it everybody else that makes money understands it yeah so when

people that aren't making money and they see this Carnival that follows ICT around and why they're so passionate they think that's the only way they can explain the feeling they have is by going to war for me that's why they act the way they do because they can't articulate any other way they feel like they have arrived that their feet they're at their Peak Performance of their life they're doing something the most people couldn't even imagine doing this industry is so complex it's hard not only are you trying to beat the industry standards but you're

competing again against yourself you are such a formidable adversary people don't even realize how hard it is to overcome ourselves in trading and when you finally get to that point where you master yourself because you're never mastering the markets when you master yourself and you finally get yourself in that position where you know exactly why you're doing something when you're going to do it how you're going to do it and defeating even part of the equation like you know that you're going to be you're going to be successful once you finally reach that Peak Performance

level you're dialed in there's nothing taking you out of that no one can convince you that you aren't exactly where you're supposed to be at so that's the reason why it's hard to argue you can't explain to someone you can't explain to a lamb to a sheep what it feels like to finally be a lion they'll never understand it and that's that's the that's why we do this it's not just the money we love what we're doing we love it because it fulfills our life it gives us every aspect that we've been striving for jobs

aren't going to do it titles in a company ain't gonna do it you carved your own man your own woman your your own person you've carved that out from due diligence showing up every day going through the motions and suffering through the periods where everybody else was already counting you out here like you know what you said I was going to do it I'm watch how fast I get there now and that's the mindset so to me I think that's you know the Core Essence of why a Trader does what they do it's not it's

not the money we're motivated by the money but what keeps us doing it it's that when we're on there's nothing better it's better than any drug it's better than any relationship and my my own personal life is a testimony to that I love my wife I love my children but this has always fulfilled a role in my life that would never be filled by any impact and that is an honest unfortunate truth to me as the person I feel I am the person I'm supposed to be doing this more so than the husband that I

signed on to be with my wife and the father of my children and that's a very hard thing for someone to understand but career traders that people that have poured themselves into this it's not the right thing to do I didn't make the right decisions doing those types of things and making trading more important than my family they suffer because of that and now because of me looking back on all that I can see I didn't make the right decisions but at that time it was so fulfilling I couldn't put it down to divert my

attention to other things and only a Trader would understand that and it's it's it's a very complex relationship that we have as as Traders with the marketplace I wildly appreciate you sitting down and just opening up and I think that it was uh it was very nice to just get to know more about your story and to hear more about it and I imagine that uh this will be a very great video for people to listen to and kind of see a side of you that I don't know if really is out there much but

I think that it was very nice to hear um before we wrap up to any official extent um do you want to push anybody anywhere specific other than just go to your YouTube channel and and check out the series you have there and and check out more of what you're about I know that you're not trying to get any more popular but um just as a is there anything on the horizon that you're you would Point people to or just standard YouTube Twitter stuff they if they want to know more about me they're welcome to

come to my YouTube channel and yeah whatever they want to look for and seek out it'll be there but I'm going to be doing live live sessions starting February 7th uh two per week and I'm gonna be basically doing tape reading which is me I'm not pushing a button I'm not trying to coax anybody to push a button and entertain behind me I'm going to be calling the market live what I see what is favorable where I think it's going to go and that way it helps at least provide in my opinion a baseline what

a Trader in development should be doing before they ever even do a demo trade so how how can you decipher where price is going to go and build a base of experience to trust why you're even going to implement a demo trade at all anyway so it's a matter of looking at the marketplace getting a feel for where it's going to go what it shouldn't do where should setups be likely to form where it shouldn't go one step occurs and then hopefully that gives a baseline to a student that's learning how to read price action

naked no indicators whatsoever and that's my goal whether I'm successful whether or not this year you know remains to be you've seen but that's my next endeavor very cool okay so people uh can check this out on your YouTube channel it's coming very soon I'm sure maybe the time is recorded you'll or the time this is put out you'll already be doing it so that'll be uh that'll be excellent one more time just um very much thank you for sitting down and for being a part you're very welcome man foreign hey thanks for watching to

the very end if you enjoyed this episode there's a good chance you're gonna love the other ones so spend some time on the channel and make sure you show some love on the way out now if you're struggling with your trading and you'd like my help everything I'm involved with will be linked in the descriptions happy Trading