The History & Importance of Marian Devotion ~ Fr. Ripperger

[Music] [Music] [Music] in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit amen direct oh Lord all our actions by thy holy Inspirations and carry them on by thy gracious assistance so that every prayer and work of ours may begin from thee and by thee be happily and through Christ Our Lord amen Mother of Divine Grace pray for us in the name of the father son and holy spirit amen so the topic of this conference is the history and necessity of uh Maran devotion and we're obviously not going to go into a full

history we're just going to hit some highlights primarily because you'd be here all all day long um to discussing um aspects of the history of it and the es and flows of it um so but with first thing we want to do is start with the history and so uh if you actually look at references uh to Mary in the New Testament there are uh obviously various references um in the beginning of Luke of course there is the recount it's obviously that St Luke before he wrote that gospel actually sat down and talked with Mary

during the to in order to get kind of a chronology and a sense of what happened during that time there's also uh clear indicators that the apostles were with our lady at the time of her death and uh all of them present there um and so there's you know obviously there's um a role that our lady played after Christ as descended um there's it's but it's fairly sparse there you don't see too much between uh then and uh about 180 when St araneus is writing there is some stuff that starts to kind of show there

are obviously certain monuments that indicate our lady's presence and the Devotion to her such as uh pictures stat um not statues so much that's a little bit later but obviously pictures of her usually holding Christ and and things of this sort St arus around 180 makes the following observation for as Eve was seduced by the word of an Angel to flee from God having rebelled against his word so Mary by the word of an Angel received the Glad Tidings that she would bear God by obeying his word the former was seduced to obey God but

the latter was persu persuaded to obey God so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the Virgin Eve now Advocate means means for someone who argues in favor of or U to defend in some sense so there's already an indicator that she is seen as an advocate at this point as the human race was subjected to death through the act of a virgin here he's talking about Eve so it was saved by a virgin so there's clear indicator that part of the devotion is is that our lady is Perpetual Virgin uh but also

that uh there is a recognition that she is the one who through whom our Salvation is brought uh since she brought Christ into the world it's about this same time between 180 and 200 ad that we find in The Monuments by monuments we mean inscriptions on certain things um writings and things of this sort the sub tum presidium in fact that uh um uh to the refly that particular prayer is actually considered by most theologians to be the first one um that was drafted now obviously the hell Mary probably was already extent during this time

or could have been it's not it doesn't seem to be a later composition the fullness of it there were parts of it that were already present and then there's stuff that's added a little bit later According to some theologians but the subun predium is the first one that we notice in the monuments of that so there's already by one uh by 180 or 200 a a pray praying a a consistent or at least a presence in the church uh documents in the church's uh monuments of the fact that people are already seeking our lady's intercession

and praying to her at that time uh some of the fathers St Ambrose who is uh obviously known as one of the primary U Maran um fathers of the church in the early church he says in heaven she leads the choir of Virgin Souls with her consecrated virgins will one day be numbered so St Ambrose is again one of those that was the first one to be known for his Maran devotion St Jerome already foreshadows uh the conception of uh Mary as mother of the human race which was uh to animate so powerful devotion in

a later age so St Jerome is already seeing elements of it and so you start to see the theology is being laid out for a stronger devotion to Our Lady St Augustine in a famous passage proclaims Mary's unique privilege of sinlessness but uh also this passage of her sinlessness is important because then it also start there's the precursors are starting to be set up for her as mediatrix of all Grace the actual composition of the mass of mediatrix of all Grace uh if I remember right goes back quite a ways St Gregory of nanen uh

sermon on the Martyr of St cyprian we have an account of the maiden Justina who invoked the Blessed Virgin Mary to preserve her virginity so at this stage uh at the time of St Gregory you're looking at um the fact that people are already a seeking her intercession so there's Devotion to her the second is seeking her protection in relationship to uh any evils that could actually occur in relationship to them in the beginning of the fifth century St Sarah wrote Hail to the mother of God to whom in towns and Villages and in Islands

were founded churches of True Believers okay so there's already by the time you get to the fifth century there's churches being founded with her name on it and things of this sort so there's by the time you get to the third and fourth centuries the Devotion to our lady is clear it may not be as developed as it was later as we see but it was still there it is difficult to give precise dates for the introduction of the various festivals or feasts but the celebration of the Assumption anunciation Nativity and purification of our Lady

May certainly be traced to this period of around 600 so by the time you get to 600 there is already in missil there's already in uh the documents of the church The Monuments indicators of of these feasts being celebrated by the year 600 three of these feasts appear in the calendar of St wil Brad of the end of the 7th Century the Assumption being assigned both to the 18th of January after the practice of the gacan church and to August which is now based upon what we see today the lurgical feast and prefaces in relationship

to Our Lady by The Year 600 are already in place by this time the point being is in all of this is that you know this idea of the modernist that develop or that the uh Devotion to our lady is a much later development there was much really that was actually going on uh or if at all in the early church is simply not true the devotion begins and you start to see it in the minions just like everything else it's like the Liturgy in the beginnings of the uh in the first two to 300

years there's not a whole lot of monuments to begin with and so whatever you see there is kind of blips on the radar but it's already an indicator that these things were present uh in the early church the later Middle Ages from 1,00 to 1200 it was in the monasteries undoubtedly that the little Office of the Blessed Virgin marage began to be recited as a devotional accretion to the Divine Office so it's sometime in that time frame that the little uh the little office was derived and that the Sol regen and other Anthony and other

hymns to Our Lady were added to compline into other hours so it's about that same time so at the end of complant of course there's a cycle throughout the year of five different Marian hymns that are actually said and so these would have been in place already by the year 1000 then a special consecration to Mary was followed by other later orders so about 1200 to 14400 you're seeing um various religious orders that uh were consecrated or dedicated specifically to Our Lady such as the Dominicans the carmelites and the cites almost every such institution from

this time forward so after 12 H adopted some one or other special practice of Devotion to Mark its particular allegiance to the mother of God and so it was also at this time the shrines throughout Europe began to be multiplied and you see them uh growing it's uh in the 1600s of course as St Louis Marie De monford writes his total consecration to the Blessed Virgin Mary and there he claims that this total consecration is actually one of the H was actually a devotion or a Hallmark of the Saints of the past that they practice

various forms of it or some form of it in the sense of that they would totally consecrate themselves to her or have a total dedication to her so the St Louis Marie De monford it's that that it's at that time that the devotion begins to um uh become more solidified in a more theologically precise way it's also interesting to note that it's not not until about the 17th century or 18th century that you actually see a separate branch of theology called mariology that is is formulated usually the mariology was always done in the context of

christology or uh sometimes it was also done in eschatology that is dealing with things of the end times um you would see bits and pieces of it particularly because of the references in Revelation to our lady um even though it talks about the church it's also um obviously at in the imagery of our Lady and things of this sort but it's about that time that the mariology becomes much more formalized the church documentations become more formalized the apparitions of our Lady do occur throughout history but they become more frequent as history progresses so that by

the time you get to the latter part of the 17 or 1700s it's into the 1800s and 1900s that you see a significant increase in the um uh the apparitions of our Lady In which it's clear that God is intending to draw people's focus and intention to a Devotion to Our Lady to following her listening to her listening to her counsel that she gives in these particular uh apparitions and so you see this progression so that towards the end of time is actually the Devotion to Our Lady becomes much more uh a part part of

the church's life and much more part even though it was always there it becomes much more um uh formalized in a variety of different ways it's also in the LA in the 1900s that you begin to see specific documents in relationship to our lady being issued by the magisterium so that kind of gives you just a general overview you could go into all sorts of detail in relationship to this but I just wanted to give a general overview and why did we go into this overview well part of it has to do with the modernist

heresy that basically wants to push any kind of narian devotion or seeking her intercession back much later but also just pooping it in general and why would they actually do that well it's pretty clear the modernism is the synthesis of all heresies and so it is in a certain sense the antithesis of our lady who is the Conqueror of all heresies now this tells is something in relationship to our current modern uh situation we already know through The Apparition at Fatima but you also see this in others as well but it's in FAA specifically that

it becomes clear that God has set our lady up as the antidote to the Modern Problems both communism but we can also say uh by extension um modernism as well in the sense that our lady is the solution or the antidote to the modernist problem because of the fact that it's the conquest of all heresies now why would our lady become the the why does she why a why is she the conqu of all heresies and second why is she the antidote to modernism in that sense other than the fact that she can conquer all

heresies well the first part of it is is that modernism the found Foundation of modernism is the principle of imminence which basically means that the people transpose the standard for truth from external reality to themselves and that the practice of religion is transposed from conforming oneself to an objective revealed deposit external to the individual to which they must conform to the interior State and dispositions and determinations that they want to make on their own about their relationship with God as I've said before the modernist one of the signs that you can one of the clear

signs of modernism is thinking and behaving and talking and think and just their thinking patterns are such that they honestly believe that their relationship with God is on their terms rather than on God's terms whereas we see in the gospels and in in the history especially when as you study mariology that our lady was the exact inversion of that that for her uh her relationship with God was purely on his terms and so there was that perfect Conformity of hers that anything he asked she said yes and there was an it was an immediate yes

it was not a well let me think about this even in scripture when she she asked the Angels well how is this going to happen because I don't know man she's not saying that she's going to think about it she's trying to wrap her mind around understanding trying to wrap her mind understanding how this is actually going to progress how this is going to happen and once the angel makes it clear to her there's this immediate Fiat yes I'll do this and so there's a this is why she is the actual antidote to that underneath

all of that is the fact that modernism is the diabolic heresy now all heresy is diabolic in various degrees in fact it even says in the ritual of exorcism that he is The Insider of heresies right uh or the doct of heresy sorry and so this is tells you something that you know whenever you see a major heresy there's always something diabolic that's pushing it but in the case of modernism it was exactly Satan who went or Lucifer when he was shown his task made the choice to make his relationship in relationship to God on

his terms rather than on God's terms and so he is the one that constantly incites people to make determinations about what they want to believe what they're going to believe what they're going to behave how they're going to behave what their relationship is with God on their terms rather than on God's terms whereas our lady is the exact inversion of that and therefore just as modernism is the diabolic heresy well she's the Conqueror she will crush his head and so she is the one she's the one that's going to crush modernism ultimately in the end

but because God's kind of set her up that way one of the clear signs that you can tell um that someone is a modernist is that modernists uh that is by intellectual modernists not people who are uh trying to be Catholic but still have modernist in their thinking but true modernists who have adopted the modernist principles intellectually and in an understanding way have a visceral distaste for anything that has to do with maryan devotion this is one of the ways that you can kind of fet them out and if they do do anything in relationship

to Maran devotion it's perfunctory where they just kind of do it they go through the motions there's no real love and desire to please our lady ET Etc the opposite is actually the case that those who are firmly dedicated to our lady she will grant them the grace to slowly clear out their thinking as long as there's humility on their part and they're working on humility she will give them the grace to avoid error in their thinking and avoid error now this means you've heard me say that modernism is such a toxic heresy that without

a special Grace You're simply going to end up in error unless you have this vast theological knowledge now that means that for most people the one of the principal ways are going to avoid becoming a modernist Heretics and this is the first indicator of the necessity of marrying devotion in our in our day is the fact that uh you see this across the board it's the Theologian all the theologians that you read that are solid or all the priests that you see that are solid trying to advance the good of the church today rather than

tear it down and are not modernists all of them one of the Hallmarks is that they have a Maran devotion it should tell us something that there is a correspondence between Orthodoxy and Maran devotion especially today and so uh even though the church has never said that you absolutely have to have a Maran devotion if you're going to be Orthodox it just seems to be the pattern right if you're if you don't have a Devotion to our lady or you don't like Devotion to Our Lady the odds of the person staying out of error are

pretty slim so one of the first things that is necessary in relationship with during devotion is recognizing I'm not going to stay out of error without her help then I mentioned again in Fatima that our our lady has been set up by our Lord the fact that there's an increas there was an increasing number of Maran apparitions was an indicator that God was sending her to us specifically so that we would follow her follow her counsel and have a Devotion to her precisely to get out from underneath the problems that we're coming that we're experiencing

now it was precisely because they didn't follow her counsel that we are now in in this pickle so if you think about it I've mentioned this before all God wanted so our lady comes and says God wants the pope to consecrate Russia by name to the Immaculate Heart right and to my Immaculate Heart so that basically means that God specifically wanted just a five minute prayer from our to Our Lady consecrating Russia to Our Lady and in that it would have converted the entire communist takeover of the world which is essentially happened and so this

is something which is uh pretty astounding if you actually think of it it would have caused the Communists not to be able to infiltrate the church or to afflict the church even from the outside they wouldn't take over the geopolitical situation so that the entire geopolitical and ecclesial Dynamics today would have been completely different if there simply would have been this one act of Devotion to Our Lady and if we would have followed her counsel this is one of the reasons why people say well you don't have to believe in the apparitions in or the

you know the approved apparitions in order to be a good Catholic that's actually true on the other hand it's pretty stupid I mean if God is sending our lady and she's appearing and telling us hey you better do this and you just ignore her I don't see where Prudence that would be prudent also as Things become more difficult the church in the world so as Things become more complex then it's going to be through the grace that our lady has as mediatrix of all Grace if you think about this as mediatrix of all Grace there

is no Grace that she can't confer to somebody if she so wills it now obviously her will is in perfect congruity with God so she's never going to will anything contrary to that but all she has to do is will a person to have the grace and then they'll will have the grace and then as a result of that it will because the two principal functions of Grace is to Enlighten the mind and strengthen the will so what does this basically mean you heard me yesterday say that God has retracted his grace and how do

we know that CU people are just getting stupid right especially in matters of religion and so that's a sign that they're not receiving the grace to be to give to grasp with Clarity the truths of the faith and this is a sign that she's just simply not giving that Grace except to a relatively few and this is an indicator that one of the necessities of having Devotion to her and being under her Tage is precisely as I mentioned to avoid theological error but also to be able to navigate the world's situation part one of the

effects of having sanctifying Grace is the gifts of the holy spirit so she can actually confer those and increase those by virtue of giving Grace and so she can actually help a person to have C counil especially today because things are very complicated today um to know when to do certain things and when not not to do certain things uh not just in relationship to the Civil Authorities and even ecclesiastical authorities because right now the ecclesiastical authorities are starting to go after everybody and so we actually need counsel from our lady it's going to take

an enormous amount of Grace to be prudent to navigate these things St Thomas says that the reason why God um confers to man The Gift of counsel is because the circumstances are either unknown we're not aware of circumstances that could cause us grave harm and if we make a decision not knowing those circumstances we could end up going down the wrong path and he also says that the in the circumstances are infinite human beings are just simply not capable of knowing all the possible circumstances and so God has to give them C he does he's

infinite he's omniscient so he does know all of the circumstances and so he can give us very specific guidance through the gift of the Holy Spirit now this is obviously going to come through Grace that is through our lady and so having a strong devotion is going to be help to it's I I don't see how people can navigate the current situation in the world and in the church without that gift of counsel and gift of uh understanding gives us an intuitive grasp of the things of the faith gift of knowledge also deals with faith

but it also deals with you know created things so she's going to give she can give us an increase in those so that we actually can understand you know what's going on in the church what's going on in the world to be able to see these things with Clarity and also to understand the things that pertain to God through wisdom so all of these have fear of the Lord Etc the point being is is that a Devotion to her is key and necessary to navigate now is it possible for someone to not end up in

error and to navigate the circumstance without a strong Devotion to Our Lady and the answer is obviously yes because God can Grant The Graces to people but the fact of the matter is is that it's extraordinarily rare you don't see too many people who don't have a Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary actually navigate these things well in fact almost all of them end up in error or they all end up trying to conform the religion to themselves so if we're going to survive devotional wise we actually have to make sure that we have a

strong Devotion to Our Lady of course course there is the uh consecration according to St Louis Marie defor he says this is the smoothest and easiest path to Holiness he starts out and saying you're not going to not suffer but this does actually smooth the path out it Smooths it out in two ways one is that people who have a strong Devotion to our lady even the things of their suffering if they uh offer those up in into to Our Lady through their consecration she will smooth it out so it's less burdensome or less painful

to actually deal with those things that can sadden or causes harm or anger Etc but it also means that she Smooths the past which means she's going to be giving the person Graces throughout the person's life when they consecrate themselves entirely to her so that they they can be continue to advance in Holiness you know we talk an awful lot about that the antidote to the problem in the church is becoming holy on the side of the lay people and we we keep talking about you know a call to Holiness and which is true there

is we're all called to Holiness and the sense of God is directing us and guiding us towards becoming Holier but I just don't see how today given how complex and turgid things are how it's going to be possible for people to really advance in Holiness without this consecration to our lady or without at least a very very strong Devotion to Our Lady and then lastly the last thing I want to talk about and we can open it up for questions because this is a somewhat of a shorter conference has to do with Our Lady of

meatrix of all Grace so there are two theories about how our lady is the meatrix of all Grace one theory states that um all Grace is conferred directly by God at our lady's consent so that ultimately she just gives consent to these things uh according to and so it's uh that's why she's the mediatrix because she gives consent and so God confers it you know based upon her consent the other one is uh based upon the idea that at the time in which our lady was crowned as Queen of Heaven that the crown was actually

a like it's like an indelible Mark that God placed in her intellect which gives her the power so it's a special thing he gives this to her um uh this thing in her intellect which gives her the power to command Grace to occur in people's Souls so that she can actually confer the grace herself so that Grace actually flows from God through horror as a secondary cause to the individuals and so this particular idea I think is uh seems to be more suited to Our Lady it seems also to be more gracious on the side

of God um but it also means that if she is the mediatrix of all Grace on either case either by consent or by conferral it means therefore that there is no Grace that none of us have received in the course of our lifetime which has not come either by her consent or her conferral and this means that our our Salvation even though it is wrought by Jesus Christ and ultimately caused by him hinges Upon Our Lady's consent and and or conferral this is a key thing it also means that how far we are in our

spiritual life means that we have to cooperate with Grace which really means we're cooperating with God but it also means that we're cooperating with our our lady in her trying to lead us Al or at least giving consent to us receiving these Graces so that we will become Holier and so our entire spiritual life are being preserved in the true faith our ability to advance in Holiness to remain in the State of Grace all hinges upon her and this is why Devotion to her is so key it it's it's just simply not possible for us

to re to remain in the state of grace for a long period of time without her her help so it it means that on our part if we recognize that then we should really be submitting ourselves entire and whole to her so that the grace of God can flow through her to us and that we can advance in our spiritual life and become holy okay any questions yeah so um so you know certain protestantism uh deny that Mary is anything special right you know and and with the history having developed for so long before that

sort of philosophy you wonder what drove them to to think like that to to profess that um well in one sense it's kind of diabolic in the sense that that you know following Martin Luther and various other her itics after that heresy is just the it's the you know Satan is the doctor of heresy so it's there and every heretic in fact that's one of the Hallmarks of a heretic is that a a significant or a clear lack of Devotion to Our Lady and so um if you're in error and in heresy then it's an

indicator that our lady isn't preserving you so there's that part of it but historically it's kind of funny because even Martin Luther had a Devotion to our lady if I'm not mistaken someone told me that actually on his tomb is a reference to our lady right it's the later Protestants who um had a distaste for uh for any of that and it's also um and you start to find out that a lot of these guys even Martin Luther a lot of these guys were just moral degenerates right and so a lot of these guys are

following people who are just immoral individuals and so as a result you notice this too among people the more immoral someone is the less they have the more just taste they have for our lady right and so I think that there's that on a historical level um I'm sure that people like uh krer and Cromwell and some of these guys that were riding um did a lot of writing against specifically against our lady you see this more in the in the Protestant sphere that they're taught against him part of that has to do too with

their idea that we worship statues so we're you know praying in front of our lady's statue and so we actually uh worship her which is just absurd you'd have to ask them you know do you have a picture of your wife on your desk yeah do you ever look at it and think about her yeah well you're worshiping her then if you're going to follow that same logic right um and so there's uh which is kind of funny uh another sign that it's diabolic is you can have an image anywhere on your wall of anything

other than a saint right so this and that's a problem um but anyway the point is is that uh historically it was the Protestants shortly after Luther if I understand my history correctly that began doing overt writings against our lady um and was stamping it out and weeding it out in Christendom yes the current um traditional catholic heretical groups that have separated themselves from the magisterium for their own beliefs of some sort where does that fall with our lady and how how did how does that happen with these groups that are pretty radical but they're

very very proclaiming they're very Catholic and yeah I think it's like anything else that um once you end up in error and heresy it takes a while for certain devotional practices or for certain aspects that are antithetical to that to get weeded out so it's going back to the Protestant I think it's the same thing that you saw that in the Protestant sphere it took it took you know um probably about 100 150 years for that not not 150 within the first 100 years but it takes a little bit of a while for all that

stuff to get weeded out and so I think what you'll find is that uh with this group as time goes on one of two things is going to happen in relationship to Our Lady either their devotion is going to become erroneous in an exaggerated fashion or you'll see it to start to Wayne one of the other so um and i' I've always found let me put you this way I've never come across people who have fallen into those various errors and heresies to have a humble dependent devotion on our lady doesn't mean they don't exist

I just never see them there was always a hotess and an arrogance about them and you know their their Devotion to our lady is more um based upon an intellectual thing of well this is right so I'm going to do it and show everyone else that I'm a good Catholic by doing so rather than an actual submission to her and her will you just don't see that at least I haven't yes other besides do you have suggestion for practical way to develop that humble right devotion well I think the principle ways through the total consecration

to the Blessed Virgin Mary by St Louis Marie De monford that is the that I think if there's anybody who formulated um that basically formulated how everybody in heaven functions it's that in the sense that everybody in heaven is under the Queen of Heaven and so everybody does everything gives everything knows that everything they do is hers right as Queen of Heaven and Earth it practically means that there is no spiritual or physical or material good which she does not own right and so they know that and so um but they also in seeing her

interior life it is they have great joy in submitting to her there is a desire to perfectly submit to her because of her perfect submission to God Etc and so I think it's the total consecration to uh to Our Lady according to the mind of St Louis de monford that most closely approximates the relationship that people have in heaven to her and so that's the principle way that I uh recommend and then from that our lady will give you the grace and to develop the very devotional aspects so it's probably a good idea to read

and r to understand yeah I mean it's not one of those books you just plow through and then you make the consecration it's one of those books that you should read you know every couple two to three years just to go back through it in order to um you know refresh your memory and to and also it's like anything else you know it's um when we see something that gave us joy in the past when we see it it gives us joy again and so it should it will inflame our devotion more by rereading it

so that's actually one of those books that I suggest to people to reread on um somewhat uh on a somewhat you know regular intervals and then do you suggest also that weew that consecration every day yeah every day and then also in a more solemn fashion once a year so thank you yes Father I was hoping that you would give us a list of different devotions um the St Louis de monford is wonderful and it's the the one that that I think is the most important but since so many people don't have devotions where do

we tell them to start which ones would be good for a beginner to develop and then Advance onto that um probably I mean it might be a bit considered a bit burdensome but I would say saying the daily Rosary cuzz that's going to be the foundation starting with the daily Rosary as a as a form of Devotion to her um sometimes it can just be um you know just saying Hell Mar from time to time throughout the course of the day if you can't get the whole Rosary in but I would say starting with the

devotion uh or the the rosary on a daily basis and then from there things about uh her litanies devotional things like getting statues and stuff of her images and then of spefic specific titles that we have an attraction to and and then start reading about those particular aspects of her um but ultimately I think that my experiences is that if you can most people don't start with the true devotion which I think is true but a lot of people who are very tepid in their um Devotion to her who actually do start do read the

true devotion and then you know do actually make the total consecration that's when you see the deepening and the real strength of devotion taking off um a lot of it is too just depends on what your state and needs are in life you know so um you know Devotion to the sorrowful mother if you if you're trying to figure out your spiritual life and things of that sort so there's the thing about our ladies it's very much like Catholicism the number of devotions that are possible are just tremendous you know um the three about that

yeah that's really good especially if people are trying to gain Purity that might be something to start people out on because it's easy right um just to get people trying to depend on her for something are there any medals that you would recomend for people to to give to others to help yeah the miraculous metal obviously um would be the one that seems to be the one that helps quite a bit and also wearing the miraculous metal of yourself uh for both for protection but also as a way to inspire um a greater dependency and

Devotion to her um trying to think if there's other sacramentals that you could use in relationship to her but I think sometimes just getting a statue oh yeah a um the scapular scap wearing the scapular is key because it provides the protection um and also the um um uh The Graces to live the life that the scapular is ordered towards so I one of the things that you can do too is just I mean even if you get so if you read true devotion but also just reading books about our lady you know solid books

um and there's various degrees in which people can read those you know there's um tan has a lot of good stuff on our lady um the um the books by um St alons lur like the glories of Mary and things like that are really good um there's a variety of different saints that have written on our lady um but I think that also um sometimes too if people are trying to increase their Devotion to Our Lady sometimes just getting to know her better so um I think it's mediatrix press has put out um Carol's Trilogy

on U mariology you know studying it more formally can help certain people but as a beginning you got to start them out small all right well if there's no other questions I'll give you a blessing bened amen oh