Normalization with Israel is 'off the table' until Palestinian statehood is resolved says Saudi FM

I asked the Saudi foreign minister, Prince Faisal bin Farhan, what he makes of suggestions that these countries and others in the Gulf could have done more to prevent the current situation, for example, in Gaza. I also pressed him on whether his country would even consider normalizing relations with Israel. Absence of a concrete plan for a Palestinian statehood.

Have a listen. I will say on the kingdom's part, we have been anything but ambiguous. We have been quite categorical.

We called in the instance of Gaza, for instance, for a cease fire. From the very beginning, we were very clear that even with the horrors of October 7th, that an overreaction by Israel was extremely dangerous. And we have seen the reality that Israel's reaction and its continuing military assault in Gaza has led to a humanitarian catastrophe that has not only impacted the citizens of Gaza, that has not only resulted in tens of thousands of civilian, unjustifiable civilian deaths, it's also really put a huge question mark on the international system of rules and governance, on the legitimacy of international humanitarian law, international law and its applicability in ways that have been really UN uniform.

So we've and we've said that from the beginning. So we have been very unambiguous about it. And we will continue to engage.

We engaged from the beginning as well on trying to find pathways out of the conflict. You know, we have the group, the Arab League, OIC Contact Group, but we also had a group of Arab states that had engaged with the United States and others to try and find ways to reach a potential ceasefire, supporting, of course, the efforts of the US, Qatar and Egypt and others. So ambiguity is not what we in the Kingdom practice.

We practice a very clear foreign policy based on clear guiding principles, but also of course from a prospect of not being drawn into confrontation in any way. You have described Israel's assault on Gaza as genocide and you've talked about Israel having to face consequences. What do you mean very specifically by that?

I mean, if we look at just what's happening now in northern Gaza, where we have a complete blockade of any access for humanitarian goods as coupled with a continuing military assault, without any real pathways for civilians to find shelter or to find safe zones that can only be described as a form of genocide. It is certainly against humanitarian law, international humanitarian law, and that is feeding a continuing cycle of violence because this level of destruction, this level of really a devaluing of human lives, of the lives of ordinary Palestinians, will feed a cycle that is against everybody's interests. And that's why we are trying to focus, even in this very difficult time, on a better future.

And that's why we have focused on the issue of a two state solution of building a Palestinian state. I will say that while we talk about a two state solution, the reality is the state of Israel exists. So now it's about establishing the state of Palestine and ensuring that the Palestinians can reach a place where they receive their right to self-determination.

In speech on Monday, the Israeli prime minister made no mention of a need to end the war in Gaza. No talk of any quote, day after plans, no mention of the Palestinians. Now, you have been and just this week with the meeting here in Riyadh, hoping to get some concrete steps that would, as we say, create this pathway to a Palestinian state or an independent Palestinian state.

How concerned are you when you hear no mention of the Palestinians nor any mention of the day after by the current Israeli prime minister? What does that suggest to you? And when we talk about a pathway, what does that specifically me?

And of course, incredibly concerned, because that tells me that there is a real lack of understanding of the strategic reality. There. We are here, this region.

We are stuck in this region, all of us, the Palestinians, everyone. And we're going to have to find a way to live with each other. And we can only live with each other if we address the rights of the Palestinians, if we address the issues of injustice that the Palestinians face right now.

And that is going to have to be a serious discussion. If that's not going to happen. We are setting ourselves for a continuing cycle of violence that serves No one except the extremists will.

A verbal commitment from Benjamin Netanyahu. Suffice were you to get on a sort of, you know, on a pathway that you felt was was worth was worth sort of tabling for an independent state? And if not, what specific measures does Saudi need to see to move forward?

And what is Saudi Arabia's message to Benjamin Netanyahu? Is normalization with Israel a genuine risk? Should you not see this commitment from Israel?

I would say certainly normalization with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not just as a risk. It is off the table until we have a resolution to Palestinian statehood. But I would say more than that, I would say that it is not just the issue of normalization with the kingdom that is at risk.

I would say that the security of the region as a whole is at risk if we do not address the rights of the Palestinians, if we do not find our way to a pathway that leads us to a Palestinian state, because that's the only way we can ensure that we can focus on the future, that we can focus on cooperation that we prefer and focus on integration. So I would hope that the leadership of Israel sees that it is not just the right thing to do, it is not just the moral thing to do, is not just the just thing to do, to give the Palestinians their rights and their state. It is also in the security and strategic interest of Israel to do so.

And that's, I think, up to them to decide on a return to that renewed US push by American officials for a ceasefire in Lebanon. Now, we were discussing this a little bit earlier with Jeremy Diamond, Lebanon's prime minister, even suggesting that he is optimistic at this point. I'll say Foreign Minister, whether he shared that optimism for an end to the conflict in Lebanon and whether or not Saudi Arabia is ready to reengage with Lebanon, especially with Hezbollah's military wing significantly degraded.

We also talked about the Saudi Iran relationship nearly two years after that fragile truce was struck between the two erstwhile enemies. Have a listen. I hope it's the case that we can see a ceasefire in the immediate hours, in the immediate short term.

I am not sure that that's the case. I don't have the details. I you know, I'm not part we are not part of the direct negotiations, but the going on, we certainly support the effort that the US is undertaking to find a pathway to a ceasefire.

I hope it comes to fruition. It's the same for that. We have had unfortunately many false starts, many pronouncements of a near deal for a ceasefire in Gaza only to be disappointed.

And my understanding is that, you know, we have in most in most of those instances where the talks eventually collapsed, it has been because there have been new requirements and new demands added on the part of Israel. Are you prepared as the kingdom to be better engaged going forward and significantly and engaged in order to help Lebanon on the sort of road to recovery with Hezbollah still involved in politics, if not as the sort of strategic militant group that it has been in the past? Yeah, I mean, from our perspective, it's up to the Lebanese.

As I said, I'm not going to right now discuss what exactly the shape of Lebanon should be, because it's up to the Lebanese to decide whatever. You know, we see from that is going to inform our judgments on how to how much we can engage, how much we can work with Lebanon, how much we can facilitate, you know, progress in areas there. Do you see any signs that Iran is putting pressure on its Lebanese ally, Hezbollah, to accept a truce?

You have, you know, decent contacts now with the Iranians. So I'm just wondering what your sort of understanding is. I mean, I certainly hope that Iran, like us, is working towards regional de-escalation on all fronts, not just in Lebanon.

And that's very much the focus of our conversations. My conversations with my Iranian counterpart. What I hear from the Iranians is that they are indeed very much keyed into the fact that as a continuing of the cycle of escalation is not in their interest.

I do hope that they are translating that into actually practical steps. Well, let's talk about Iran. Are you confident that Israel's recent retaliatory strike on these selected military sites in Iran signals the end of what has been this face off that otherwise, you know, threatens to plunge this region into further chaos?

Am I confident I cannot be confident of anything that is in the control of other parties, of actors? But what I can say is that I have made it clear to our Iranian counterparts that it is important that we avoid any further escalation. My sense is that at least on their side, that they realize the risks of escalation and would prefer to avoid it.