Jeffrey Sachs Roaring Ukraine Speech At EU Parliament; Blasts U.S., Says 'Not Putin's Puppet'

F first of all I would like to thank you all for coming here uh we we didn't expect actually so many people come we very pleased about this and of course above all I want to welcome Professor Jeffrey saaks and his wife Sonia Sonia it's it's very I have forgot my my things so it's very difficult to introduce him he did so much many things in in life uh you know he's uh of is of course adviser to three secretary generals and three secretary generals now he is Professor from Columbia University he started the Earth

uh Institute and you correct me afterwards if I'm wrong and now you're director of the uh Center for sustainable development Solutions all these things Sonia I forgot most of it there's much more but I want to say something more personally because I know Jeff for some time you know and I've know of course the international field More Than This Parliament I've never met any person who is so well connected internationally than Jeff so well connected both in the religious areas he went to the Vatican but also in the political areas Jeff can go anywhere in

the world and they will know him whether it's the Middle East whether it's in China whether it's in Moscow hopefully very soon also again in Kiev and whether it's in Africa or Latin America and he has a very long experience I would say the people he knows are alive or dead because he does this type of job since a very long time what I think is also at least from my point of view so special about Jeff is that he's always remained an advisor he has never tried to enter any political field to align with

any political party so he's he has remained independent and that of course adds to his credibility and uh and I think that's also the reason at least for me and maybe many of you will agree that he has become a spokesman in economics sustainable development environment and of course in politics and today Jeff is probably the person in the world to speak up for peace everywhere for peace which is all these things combined and therefore I'm very happy that you're here and uh very proud also that you followed my invit or our invitations and uh

he would talk about uh the geopolitics of peace now Jeff is coming now to the parliament when this we have we are the European Union is in termo for whatever I don't want to Value this but I think we have now the Ukraine war it's an American initiative Europe will not sit on the table although this is a war on European soil and um so we are in a very difficult situation I think the we don't know in what directions to to go uh I'm here since six months in this Parliament and for somebody who

worked for the UN I was actually quite shocked to learn that this Parliament speaks only about war and that you can with force create Solutions in the UN we always spoke differently in all the countries and when I say here things which I say actually in all the war countries I've been to and I've been 34 years in war countries I'm booted for these things but I think we have now to rethink what we want to do and I hope the European Union will also come because I'm Pro European Union will come to to realize

that we have also to see how we seek peace and how we manage peace and how we create again a peaceful Europe and Jeff might give us for these things some insight thank you very much [Applause] great Michael thank you so much and thanks to thanks to all of you for the chance to be together and to think together this is uh indeed a a complicated and fast changing time and a and and a very dangerous one so we really need Clarity of thought um I'm especially interested in our conversation so I'll try to be

as succinct and and clear as I can be I've watched the events very close up uh in Eastern Europe the former Soviet Union Russia uh very closely for the last uh 36 years I was an advisor to the poll polish government in 1989 uh to uh president gorbachov in 1990 and 91 to president yelson in 1991 to 1993 to president kochma of Ukraine in 1993 94 I helped introduce the Estonian currency I I helped several countries in uh former Yugoslavia especially Slovenia uh I've watched the events very close up for 36 years uh after the

maidan I was uh asked by the new government to come to Kev and I was taken around the maidan and I learned a lot of things uh firsthand I I've been in touch with Russian leaders for more than 30 years I know the American political leadership uh close up our previous uh Secretary of Treasury was my macroeconomics teacher uh 51 years ago or just to give you an idea so we were very close friends for a half century I know all of these people I just want to say this because what I want to explain

in my point of view is not uh secondhand and it's not ideology it's what I've seen with my own eyes and experienced during this period in my understanding of the events that have uh befallen Europe in many contexts uh and I'll include not only the uh Ukraine crisis uh but uh Serbia 1999 uh the wars in the Middle East including Iraq Syria uh the wars in Africa including Sudan Somalia uh Libya these are to a very significant extent that would surprise you perhaps uh and would be denounced about what I'm about to say these are

Wars that the United States LED and caused and this has been true for more than 40 years now what happened uh more than 30 years I should say to be more precise the United States came to the view especially in 1990 91 and then with the end of the Soviet Union that the US now ran the world and that the US did not have to heed anybody's views red lines concerns security viewpoints or any International obligations or any un framework I'm sorry to put it so plainly but I do want you to understand I tried

very hard in 1991 to get help for gorbachov who I think was the greatest Statesman of our modern time I recently read the archived memo of the National Security Council discussion of my proposal how they completely dismissed it and laughed it off the table when I said that the United States should help the Soviet Union in financial stabilization and in making its reforms and the memo documents including some of my former colleagues at Harvard in particular saying we will do the minimum that we will do to prevent disaster but the minimum it's not our job

to help quite the contrary it's not our interest to help when the Soviet Union ended in 1991 the view became even more exaggerated and I can name chapter and verse but the view was We Run The Show Cheney Wolowitz and many other names that you will have come to know literally believed this is now a US World and we will do as we want we will clean up from the former Soviet Union we will take out any remaining allies countries like Iraq Syria and so forth will go and we've been experiencing this foreign policy for

now essentially 33 years Europe has paid a heavy price for this because Europe has has not had any foreign policy during this period that I can figure out no voice no Unity no Clarity no European interests only American loyalty there were moments where there were disagreements and very uh I think uh wonderful disagreements especially in the last time of significance was 2003 in the Iraq War when France and Germany said we don't support the United States uh going around the UN Security Council for this war that war by the way was directly concocted by Netanyahu

and his colleagues in the US uh Pentagon I'm not saying that it was a link or mutuality I'm saying it was a direct War that was a war carried out for Israel it was a war that Paul wolfowitz and Douglas fith coordinated with Netanyahu and that was the last time that Europe had a voice and I spoke with European leaders then and they were very clear and it was uh quite wonderful Europe lost its voice entirely after that but especially in 2008 now what happened after 1991 to get to 2008 is that the United States

decided that unipolarity meant that NATO would enlarge somewhere from Brussels to Vlados step by step there would be no end to Eastward enlargement of NATO this would be the the US unipolar World if you play the game of Risk as a child like I did this is the US idea to have the peace on every part of the board any place without a US military base is an enemy basically neutrality is a dirty word in the US political lexicon perhaps the dirtiest word at least if you're an enemy we know you're an enemy uh if

you are neutral you're subversive because then you're really against us cuz you're not telling us you're pretending to be neutral so this was the mindset and the decision was taken formally in 1994 when President Clinton signed off on NATO enlargement to the east you will recall that in February 7th 1991 Hans Dietra genter and James Baker III spoke with gorbachov genter gave a press conference afterwards where he explained NATO will not move Eastward we will not take advantage of the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and understand that was in a juridical context not a casual

context this was the end of of World War III being negotiated for German reunification and an agreement was made that NATO will not move one inch Eastford and it was explicit and it is in countless documents and just look up National Security Archive of George Washington University and you can get dozens of documents it's a website called what gorbachov heard about NATO take a look because everything you're told by the US is a lie about this but the archives are perfectly clear so the decision was taken in 1994 to expand NATO all the way to

Ukraine this is a project this is not one Administration or another this is a US Government project that started more than 30 years ago in 1997 big new binski wrote The Grand chessboard that is not just musings of Mr binski that is the presentation of the decisions of the United States government explained to the public which is how these books work and the book describes the e Eastward enlargement of Europe and of NATO as simultaneous events and there's a good chapter in that book that says what will Russia do as Europe and NATO expand Eastward

and I knews big binski personally he was very nice to me uh I was advising Poland he was a big help he was is a very nice and smart man and he got everything wrong so in 1997 he wrote In detail why Russia could do nothing but exceed to the Eastward expansion of NATO and Europe in fact he says the Eastward expansion of Europe and not just Europe but NATO this was a plan a project and he explains how Russia will never all align with China Unthinkable Russia will never align with Iran Russia has no

vocation other than the European vocation so as Europe moves East there's nothing Russia can do about it so says yet another American strategist is it any question why we're in war all the time because one thing about America's we we always know what our counterparts are going to do and we always get it wrong and one reason we always get it wrong is that in game theory that the American strategists play you don't actually talk to the other side you just know what the other side strategy is that's it's wonderful it saves so much time

you don't need any diplomacy so this project began and we had a continuity of government for 30 years until maybe yesterday perhaps 30 years of a project Ukraine and Georgia were the keys to the project why because America learned everything it knows from the British and so we are the wannabe British Empire and what the British Empire understood in 1853 Mr Palmer Lord Palmerston excuse me is that you surround Russia in the Black Sea and you deny Russia access to the Eastern Mediterranean and all you're watching is an American project to do that in the

21st century the idea was that there would be Ukraine Romania Bulgaria turkey and Georgia as the Black Sea literal that would deprive Russia of any International status by blocking the Black Sea and essentially by neutralizing Russia as more than a local power brinsky is completely clear about this and before binski there was mender and who owns the island of the world owns the world so this project goes back a long time I think it goes back basically to Palmerston in 19 and again I've lived through every Administration I've known these presidents I've known their teams

nothing changed much from Clinton to Bush to Obama to Trump one to Biden maybe they got worse step by step Biden was the worst in my view uh maybe also because he was not compos mtis for the last couple of years and I say that seriously not as a snarky remark the American political system is a system of image it's a system of media manipulation every day it is a PR system and so you could have a president that basically doesn't function and have that in power for two years and actually have that President run

for reelection and one damn thing is he had to stand on a stage for 90 minutes by himself and that was the end of it had it not been that mistake he would have gone on to have his candidacy whether he was sleeping after 400 p.m. in the afternoon or not so this is actually the reality everybody goes along with it it's impolite to say anything that I'm saying because we don't speak the truth about almost anything in this world right now so this project went on from the 1990s bombing Belgrade 78 straight days in

1999 was part of this project splitting apart the country when borders are sacran aren't they indeed except for Kosovo that's fine because borders are sacrosanct except when America changes them Sudan was another related project the South Sudan Rebellion did that just happen because south sudanes rebelled or can I give you the CIA Playbook to please understand as grown-ups what this is about military events are costly they require equipment training base camps intelligence finance that comes from big powers that doesn't come from local insurrections South Sudan did not defeat North Sudan or Sudan in a tribal

battle it was a US project I would go often to Nairobi and meet us military or senators or others with deep interest in Sudan's politics this was part of the game of unipolarity so the NATO enlargement as you know started in 1999 with Hungary Poland and the Czech Republic and Russia was extremely unhappy about it but these were countries still far from the border and Russia protested but of course to no avail then George Bush Jr came in when 911 occurred President Putin pledged all support and then the US uh decided in September 20th 2001

that it would launch seven wars in five years and you can listen to General Wesley Clark online talk about that he was NATO Supreme Commander in 19 99 he went to the Pentagon on September 20th 2001 he was handed the paper explaining seven wars these by the way were netanyahu's Wars the idea was partly to clean up old Soviet allies and partly to take out supporters of Hamas and Hezbollah because netanyahu's idea was there will be one state thank you only one state it will be Israel is is Will control all of the territory and

anyone that objects we will overthrow not we exactly our friend the United States that's US policy until this morning we don't know whether it will change now the only wrinkle is that maybe the US will own Gaza instead of Israel owning Gaza but the idea has been around at least for 25 years years it actually goes back to a document called clean break that Netanyahu and his American political team put together in 1996 to end the idea of the two-state solution you can also find it online so these are projects these are long-term events these

aren't is it Clinton is it bush is it Obama That's the boring way to look at American politics as the day-to-day game but that's not what American politics is so the next round of NATO enlargement came in 2004 with seven more countries the three Baltic states Romania Bulgaria Slovenia and Slovakia at this point Russia was pretty damn upset this was a complete violation of the post War order agreed with German reunification essentially it was a it it was a fundamental trick or defection of the US from a Cooperative Arrangement is what it amounted to because

they believe in unipolarity so as everybody recalls because we just had the Munich security conference last week in 2007 President Putin said said stop enough enough stop now and of course what that meant was in 2008 the United States jammed down Europe's throat enlargement of NATO to Ukraine and to Georgia this is a long-term project I listened to Mr sakash in New York in May of 2008 and I walked out called Sonia and said this man's crazy and and a month later a war broke out because the United States told this guy we save Georgia

and he stands at the Council on Foreign Relations says Georgia's in the center of Europe well it ain't ladies and gentlemen it's not in the center of Europe and the most recent events are not helpful for Georgia for its safety and your MP's going there or me's going there and European politicians that gets Georgia destroyed that doesn't save Georgia that gets Georgia destroyed completely destroyed in 2008 as everybody knows our former CIA director William Burns sent a long message back to condalisa Rice net means net about expansion this we know from juliia Assange because believe

me not one word is told to the American American people about anything or to you or by any of your newspapers these days so we have Julian Assan to thank but we can read the memo in detail as you know Victor yanukovich was elected in 2010 on the platform of neutrality Russia had no territorial interests or designs in Ukraine at all I know I was there during these these years what Russia was negotiating was a 25-year lease to 2042 for svast stopel Naval Base that's it not for crimeia not for the donbas nothing like that

this idea that Putin is reconstructing the Russian Empire this is childish propaganda excuse me if anyone knows the daytoday and year-to-year history this is childish stuff childish stuff seems to work better than adult stuff so no designs at all the United States decided this man must be overthrown it's called a regime change operation there have been about a hundred of them by the United States many in your country countries and many all over the world that's what the CIA does for a living okay please know it it's a very unusual kind of foreign policy but

in America if you don't like the other side you don't negotiate with them you try to overthrow them preferably covertly if it doesn't work covertly you do it overtly you always say it's not our fault they're the aggressor they're the other side they're Hitler that comes up every two or three years whether it's Saddam Hussein whether it's Assad whether it's Putin that's very convenient that's the only foreign policy explanation the American people are ever given anywhere well we're facing Munich 1938 well we're facing Munich 1938 can't talk to the other side they're evil implacable foes

that's the only model of foreign policy we ever hear from our mass media and the mass media repeats it entirely because it's completely suborned by the US government now in 2014 the US worked actively to overthrow yanukovich everybody knows the phone call intercepted by my Columbia University colleague Victoria newand and the US ambassador Peter Pat you don't get better evidence the Russians intercepted her call and they put it on the internet listen to it it's fascinating I know all these people by the way by doing that they all got promoted in the Biden Administration that's

the job now when the maidon occurred I was called immediately oh Professor Sachs the new Ukrainian prime minister would like to see you to talk about the economic crisis because I'm pretty good at that and so I flew to Kiev and I was walked around the maidan and I was told how the US paid the money for all the people around the maidan spontaneous revolution of dignity ladies and Gentlemen please where do all these media Outlets come from where does all this organization come from where do all these buses come from where do all these

people called in come from are you kidding this is organized effort and it's not a secret except to citizens of Europe and the United States everyone else understands it quite clearly then came Minsk and especially Minsk 2 which by the way was modeled on South Troian autonomy and the belgians could have related to msk 2 very well it said there should be autonomy for the Russians speaking regions in the east of Ukraine it was supported unanimously by the UN Security Council the United States and Ukraine decided it was not to be enforced Germany and France

which were the guarantors of the Normandy process Let It Go and it was absolutely another direct American unipolar action with Europe as usual playing completely useless subsidiary role even though it was a guarantor of the agreement Trump one raised the armaments there were many thousands of deaths in the shelling by Ukraine in the donbas there was no Minsk 2 agreement and then Biden came into office and again I know all these people I used to be a member of the democratic party I now am strictly sworn to be a member of no party because both

are the same anyway and because this is I the Democrats became complete warmongers over time and there not was not one voice about peace just like most of your parliamentarians the same way so at the end of 1991 Putin put on the table a last effort in two secur agreement drafts one with Europe and one with the United States the US put on the table December 15th n uh 2021 I had an hour call with Jake Sullivan in the white house begging Jake avoid the war you can avoid the war all you have to do

is say nato will not enlarge to Ukraine and he said to me oh NATO's not going to enlarge to Ukraine don't worry about it I said Jake say it publicly no no no we can't say it publicly say Jake you're G to have a war over something that isn't even going to happen he said don't worry Jeff there will be no war these are not very bright people I'm telling you if I can give you my honest view they're not very bright people and I've dealt with them for more than 40 years they talk to

themselves they don't talk to anybody else they play game theory in non-cooperative Game Theory you don't talk to the other side you just make your strategy this is the essence of Game Theory it's not negotiation Theory it's not peacemaking Theory it is unilateral non-cooperative theory if you know formal Game Theory that's what they play it started at the Rand Corporation that's what they still play in 2019 there's a paper by Rand how do we extend Russia do you know they wrote a paper which Biden followed how do we annoy Russia that's literally the strategy how

do we annoy Russia we're trying to provoke it trying to make it break apart maybe have regime change maybe have unrest maybe have economic crisis that's what you call your ally are you kidding so I had a long and frustrating phone call with Sullivan I was standing out in the freezing cold I happened to be H trying to have a ski day and there I was Jake don't have the war oh there'll be no war Jeff we know a lot of what happened the next month which is that they refus to negotiate the stupidest idea

of NATO is the so-called open door policy are you kidding NATO reserves the right to go where it wants without any neighbor having any say whatsoever well I tell the Mexicans and the Canadians don't try it you know Trump may want to take over Canada so Canada could say to China why don't you build a military base uh in uh in in Ontario I wouldn't advise it and the United States would not say well it's an open door that's their business I mean they can do what they want that's not our business but grown-ups in

Europe repeat this in Europe in your commission your high representative this is nonsense stuff this is not even baby geopolitics this is just not thinking at all so the war started what was Putin's intention in the war I can tell you what his intention was it was to force zalinski to negotiate neutrality and that happened within 7 Days of the start of the invasion you should understand this not the propaganda that's written about this oh that they failed and he was going to take over Ukraine come on ladies and gentlemen understand something basic the idea

was to keep NATO and what is NATO it's the United States off of Russia's border no more no less I should add one very important Point why are they so interested first because if China or Russia decided to have a milit milary base on the Rio Grand or in the Canadian border Not only would the United States freak out we'd have War within about 10 minutes but because the United States unilaterally abandoned the anti-ballistic missile treaty in 2002 and ended the nuclear arms control framework by doing so and this is extremely important to understand the

nuclear arms control framework is based on trying to block a first strike the ABM Treaty was a critical component of that the US unilaterally walked out of the ABM Treaty in 2002 it blew a Russian gasket so everything I've been describing is in the context of the destruction of the nuclear framework as well and starting in 2010 the US put in AIS missile systems in Poland and then in Romania and Russia doesn't like that and one of the issues on the table in December and January December 2021 January 2022 was does the United States claim

the right to put missile systems in Ukraine and blinkin told lavro in January 2022 the United States reserves the right to put middle missile systems wherever it want wants that's your putative Ally and now let's put intermediate missile systems back in Germany the United States walked out of the INF treaty unilaterally in 2019 there is no nuclear arms framework right now none when zalinsky said in seven days let's negotiate I know the details of this exquisitly because I've talked to all the parties in detail within a couple of weeks there was a document exchanged that

President Putin had approved that lavro had presented that was being managed by the Turkish mediators I flew to anchora to listen in detail to what the mediators were doing Ukraine walked away unilaterally from a near agreement why because the United States told them to because the UK added icing to the cake by having Bojo go in early April to Ukraine and explain and he has recently and if your security is in the hands of Boris Johnson God help us all Keith starmer turns out to be even worse it's unimaginable but it is true Boris Johnson

has explained and you can look it up on the website that what's at stake here is Western heany not Ukraine Western hegemony Michael and I met at the Vatican with a group in the spring of 2022 where we wrote a document explaining nothing good can come out of this war for Ukraine negotiate now because anything that takes time will mean massive amounts of deaths risk of nuclear escalation and likely loss of the war I want to change one word from what we wrote then nothing was wrong in that document and since that document since the

US talked the negotiators away from the table about a million ukrainians have died or been severely wounded and the American Senators who are as nasty and cynical and corrupt as imaginable say this is wonderful expenditure of our money because no Americans are dying it's the pure proxy war one of our Senators nearby me uh Blumenthal says this out loud Mitt Romney says this out loud it's best money America can spend no Americans are dying it's unreal now just to bring us up to yesterday this failed this project failed the idea of the project was that

Russia would fold its hand the idea all along was Russia can't resist as big new binski explained in 1997 the Americans thought we have the upper hand we're going to win because we're going to Bluff them they're not really going to fight they're not really going to mobilize the nuclear option of cutting them out of Swift that's going to do them in the economic sanctions that's going to do them in the himar that's going to do them in the attacks the f-16s honestly I've listened to this for 70 years I've listened to it as semi

standing I'd say for uh about 56 years they speak nonsense every day my country my government this is so familiar to me completely familiar I begged the ukrainians and I had a track record with the ukrainians I advise the ukrainians I'm not anti-ukrainian I'm pro-ukrainian completely I said save your lives save your sovereignty save your territory be neutral don't listen to the Americans I repeated to them the famous adage of Henry Kissinger that to be an enemy of the United States is dangerous but to be a friend is fatal okay so let me repeat that

for Europe to be an enemy of the United States is dangerous but to be a friend is fatal so let me now finalize a few words about Trump trump does not want the losing hand this is why it is more likely than not this war will end because Trump and President Putin will agree to end the war if Europe does all its great warmongering it doesn't matter the war is ending so get it out of your system please tell your colleagues it's over and it's over because Trump doesn't want to carry a loser that's it

it's not some great morality he doesn't want to carry a loser this is a loser the one that will be saved by the negotiations taking place right now is Ukraine second is Europe your stock markets rising in recent Days by the horrible news of negotiations I know this has been met with the sheer Horror in these Chambers but this is the best news that you could get now I encouraged they don't listen to me but I tried to reach out to some of the European leaders most don't want to hear anything from me at all

but I said don't go to Kiev go to Moscow discuss with your counterparts are you kidding you're Europe your 450 million people your 20 trillion economy you should be the main economic trading partner of Russia its natural links by the way if anyone would like to discuss how the US blew up nordstream I'd be happy to talk about that so the Trump Administration is imperialist at heart it is a great powers dominate the world it is we will do what we want when we can we will be better than a ccent Biden and we'll cut

our losses where we have to there are several war zones in the world the Middle East being another we don't know what will happen with that again if Europe had a proper policy you could stop that war I'll explain how but war with China is also a possibility so I'm not saying that we're at the new age of Peace but we are in a uh very uh different kind of politics right now and Europe should have a foreign policy and not just a foreign policy of russophobia a foreign policy that is a realistic foreign policy

that understands Russia's situation that understands Europe's situation that understands what America is and what it stands for that tries to avoid Europe being invaded by the United States because it's not impossible that America will just land troops in Danish territory I'm not joking and I don't think they're joking and Europe needs a foreign policy a real one not a yes we'll bargain with Mr Trump and meet him halfway you know what that will be like give me a call afterwards please don't have American officials as head of Europe have European officials please have a European

foreign policy you're going to be living with Russia for a long time so please negotiate with Russia there are real security issues on the table but the bombast and the russophobia is not serving your security at all it's not serving Ukraine's security at all it contributed to a million casualties in Ukraine from this idiotic American Adventure that you signed on to and then became the lead cheerleaders of solves nothing on the Middle East by the way the US completely handed over foreign policy to Netanyahu 30 years ago the Israel Lobby dominates American politics just have

no doubt about it I could explain for hours how it works it's very dangerous I'm hoping that Trump will not destroy his administration and worse the Palestinian people because of Netanyahu who I regard as a war criminal uh properly indicted by the ICC and that needs to be told no more that there will be a state of Palestine on the borders of the 4th of June 1967 according to international law as the only way for peace it's the only way for Europe to have peace on your borders with the Middle East is the two-state solution

there is only only one obstacle to it by the way and that is the veto of the United States and the UN Security Council so if you want to have some influence tell the United States Drop The veto you are together with a 180 countries in the world the only ones that oppose a Palestinian state are the United States Israel Micronesia NAU poao Papa guini Mr Malay and Paraguay so this is a place where Europe could have a big influence Europe has gone silent about the jcpoa and Iran netanyahu's greatest dream in life is a

war between the United States and Iran he's not given up and it's it's not impossible that that would come also and that's because the US in this regard does not have an independent foreign policy it is run by Israel it's tragic it's amazing by the way and it could end Trump may say that he wants foreign policy back maybe I'm hoping that it's the case finally let me just say with respect to China China is not an enemy China is just a success story that's why it is viewed by the United States as an enemy

because China is a bigger economy than the United States that's all [Applause] thanks very well now questions please don't make any statements just make questions because we are too many and we we don't have that all that much time so um where do I start I start with on the left side I have a preference to the left yes you know you come on yeah go ahead uh thank you Jeffrey Saks uh from the Czech Republic uh we are glad we have you here uh we have a problem uh we were cursed by a witch

who uh thought M the EU and the EU is macked uh so uh it will won't be improved until 2029 but what we the central Europeans should do in the meantime especially if the Germans doesn't don't happen to vote for SAR wagen enough uh are we supposed uh to create some uh kind of neutrality uh for the Central Europe or what would you suggest us to do so uh first of all uh all my grandchildren are Czech I want you to know uh and Sonia is a Czech born uh and Czech citizen um so we're

very proud I'm I'm the trailing spouse in this but I'm a Czech wannabe um Europe needs to have a foreign policy that is a European foreign policy and it needs to be a realist foreign policy realist is not hate realist is actually trying to understand both sides and to negotiate there are two kinds of realists a defensive realist and offensive realist uh my dear friend John mimer who is the offensive realist I I we very close friends and I love him but I believe more than he does you talk to the other side and you

find a way to make uh an understanding and so basically uh Russia is not going to invade Europe This is the fundamental point it may get up to the neeper river it's not going to invade Europe but there are real issues the the main issue for Russia was the United States because Russia as a major power and a the largest nuclear power in the the world was profoundly concerned about us unipolarity from the beginning now that this is seemingly possibly ending Europe has to open negotiations directly with Russia as well because the United States will

quickly lose interest and you're going to be living with Russia for the next thousands of years okay so what do you want you want to make sure that the Baltic states are secure the best thing for the Baltic states is to stop their russophobia this is the most important thing Estonia has about 25% Russian citizens or Russians speaking citizens ethnic Russians lvia the same don't provoke the neighbor that's all this is not heard it really isn't heard and again I want to explain my point of view I have helped these countries the ones I'm talking

about trying to advise I'm not their enemy I'm not Putin's puppet I'm not Putin's apologist I worked in Estonia they gave me I don't it's not I think it's the second highest civilian honor that a president of Estonia can bestow on a non-national because I designed their currency system for them in 1992 so I'm giving them advice do not stand there Estonia and say we want to break up Russia are you kidding don't this is not how to survive in this world you survive with mutual respect actually you survive in negotiation you survive in discussion

you don't Outlaw the Russian language not a good idea when 25% of your population is has the first language of Russian it's not right even if there weren't a giant On the Border it wouldn't be the right thing to do you'd have it as an official language you'd have a language of a in lower school you wouldn't antagonize the Russian Orthodox church so basically we need to behave like grown-ups and when I constantly say that they're acting like children Sonia always says to me that's unfair to children because this is worse than children we have

a six-year-old granddaughter and a three-year-old grandson and they actually make up with their friends and we don't tell them go just just ridicule them tomorrow and every day we say go give them a hug and go play and they do this is not hard by the way well anyway I won't be labor the point Thank you so elect a new government no I shouldn't say that what all all I should say is change change policy I don't want to have a political does that work yeah hi my name is Kira I'm a reporter with the

Brussels times um thank you for the fascinating talk Jeffrey um I just wanted to ask you about Trump's statements about wanting uh NATO members to increase their spending by 5% and we're now seeing lots of countries scrambling to prove that they're going to do that including Belgium and given that Belgium is also the NATO headquarters um I wanted to ask you what would be the appropriate response to those statements by NATO members thanks uh we don't see exactly ey eye on this question uh so let me let me give you my own uh my own

view um my first recommendation with all respect to Brussels is move the NATO headquarters somewhere else uh I I mean it seriously because one of the worst parts of European policy right now is a complete confusion of Europe and NATO these are completely different but they became exactly the same Europe is much better than nato in my opinion NATO isn't even needed anymore I would have ended it in 1991 but because the US viewed it as a instrument of aany not as a defense against Russia it continued afterwards but the confusion of NATO and Europe

is deadly because expanding Europe meant expanding NATO period and these should have been completely different things so this is uh the first point my own view again with all respect to Michael we only had a brief conversation about it is that Europe should have Europe basically should have its own foreign policy and its own uh its own military security its own strategic autonomy so-called and it should I'm in favor of that I would disband NATO and maybe Trump is going to do it anyway maybe Trump's going to invade Greenland who knows then you're really going

to find out what NATO means so I do think that Europe should invest in its security 5% is outlandish ridiculous absurd completely absurd no one needs to spend anything like that amount 2 to 3% of GDP probably under the current circumstances what I would do by the way is buy European production because actually strangely weirdly unfortunately in this world and it's a true truism but it's un fortunate so I'm not championing it a lot of technological innovation spins off from the military sector because governments invest in the military sector so Trump is a arms salesman

you understand that he's selling American Arms he is selling American Technology Vance told you a few days ago don't even think about having your own AI technology so please understand that this increase of spending is for the United States not for you and in this sense I'm completely against that approach but I would not be against an approach of Europe spending 2 to 3% of GDP for a unified European security structure and invested in Europe and European technology and not having the United States dictate the use of European technology it's so interesting it's the Netherlands

that produces the only Machines of advanced semiconductors extreme ultraviolet lithography it's a asml but America determines every policy of asml the Netherlands doesn't even have a footnote I wouldn't do that if I were you hand over all security to the United States I wouldn't do it I would have your own security framework so you can have your own foreign policy framework as well Europe stands for lots of things that the United States does does not stand for Europe stands for climate action by the way rightly so CU our president is completely Bonkers on this and

Europe stands for decency for social democracy as an ethos I'm not talking about a party I'm talking about an ethos of how equality of Life occurs Europe stands for multilateralism Europe stands for the UN Charter the US stands for none of those things you know that our secretary of state Marco Rubio cancelled his trip to South Africa because on the agenda was equality and sustainability and he said I'm not getting into that that is an honest reflection of deep Anglo Saxon libertarian ism egalitarianism is not a word of the American lexicon sustainable development not at

all you probably know by the way that of the 193 UN member states 191 have had sdg plans presented as voluntary National reviews 191 two have not Haiti and the United States of America the Biden Administration wasn't even allowed to say sustainable development goals the treasury had a policy not to say sustainable development goals okay I mention all of this because you need your own foreign policy I issue a report two reports each year one the world happiness report and 18 of the top 20 countries of I I remember correctly are European this is the

highest quality of life in the whole world so you need your own policy to protect that quality of life the United States ranks way down and the other report where's my colleague Gom is somewhere in the room here there he is Gom La foron is the lead author of our annual sustainable development report and almost all of the top 20 countries are European countries because you believe in this stuff and that's why you're the happiest except in geopolitics but quality of life so you need your own foreign policy but you won't have it unless you

have your own security you just won't and so and by the way 27 countries cannot each have their own foreign policy this is a problem you need a European foreign policy and a European security structure and by the way although Michael assures me it's dead I was the greatest fan of occe and believe that occe is the proper framework for European security it could really work thank you thank you very much yeah okay uh well uh thank you Professor I'm from Slovakia and my prime minister Robert fito was almost sh that because the opinions you

had the similar with him uh yes we are as a Slovakia Slovak government of the few countries in the European Union we are talking to Russians uh two months ago I was talking with Mr medv uh in two weeks I will be talking uh in Duma with Mr slutzki who is the chairman of the Russian uh Foreign Affairs Committee in uh moscov maybe my question is what would you be your message to Russians in this moment because as I heard they are on the Victorious wave they have no reason to not to conquer the dbas

because that's their War aim and what can uh Trump uh can offer to them uh to stop the war immediately what would be what would be be the message for Russians from your side thank you very much lots of uh important things are uh now on offer and on the table and I believe that the war will end quickly because of this and this this will be at least one blessing in a very uh very difficult time exactly what the settlement will be I think uh is now only a question of the territorial issues uh

and that is whether it is the complete four oblasts including all of Heron and Zaria or whether it is on the contact line and how all of this will be negotiated I'm not in the room of the negotiations so I can't really say more but the basis will be there will be territorial concessions there will be neutrality there will be security guarantees for Ukraine for all parties uh there will be at least with the US an end of the economic sanctions uh but what counts of course is Europe and Russia I think that there are

and maybe there will be a restoration of nuclear arms uh negotiations which would be extraordinarily positive I think that there are tremendously important issues for Europe to negotiate directly with Russia and so I would urge president Costa and the leadership of uh Europe to open direct discussions with President Putin because European security is on the table I know the Russian leaders many of them quite well uh they are good negotiators and uh you should negotiate with them uh and you should negotiate well with them uh I would ask them some questions uh I would ask

them what are the security guarantees that can work so that this war ends permanently what are the security guarantees for the Baltic states what should be done part of the process of negotiation is actually to ask the other side about your concern s not just to know what they know as you think is to true but actually to ask we have a real problem we have a real worry what are the guarantees well I want to know the answers also uh by the way I know Mr lavro Minister lavro for 30 years I I regard

him as a brilliant foreign minister uh talk with him negotiate with him get ideas put ideas on the table put counter ideas on the table I don't think all of this can be settled by pure reason because of oneself you settle Wars by negotiating and understanding what are the real issues and you don't call the other side a liar when they express their issues you work out what the implications of that are for the mutual benefit of Peace So the most important thing is stop the yelling stop the warmongering and discuss with the Russian counterparts

and don't beg to be at the table with the United States you don't need to be in the room with the United States you're Europe you should be in the room with Europe and Russia if the United States wants to join that's fine but to beg no and by the way Europe does not need to have Ukraine in the room when Europe talks with Russia you have a lot of issues direct issues don't hand over your foreign policy to anybody not to the United States not to Ukraine not to Israel keep a European foreign policy

this is the basic idea uh H noof from the sovereignists political group in this Parliament um alternative for Germany as political party first of all let me thank you Mr Sax for being here and sharing your ideas with us and be assured that many of your ideas and of your colleague John Mima have well been received by political groups here and have been integrated into our agenda I widely share your views um yet there's one question regarding the historical account that you gave uh where I would like to go in some detail and This concerns

the beginning of NATO expansion um you um uh uh reported from uh um the website um what garbage of heard that there are many um quotations from gure uh for example um that NATO will not move one inch eastwards now the 2+4 treaty has been signed in September 1990 right in Moscow so at that point in time the waro PCT still existed and countries like Poland Hungary and czechia were not part of the negotiations for the two and for treaty so The wara Pact actually dissolved in July 1991 and the Soviet Union dissed in December

1991 so nobody who was present in the negotiations could speak for Poland could speak for Hungary could speak for Slovakia that they would not try to become member of NATO once the overall situation has changed so the counter argument um which we have to counter um is uh that it was on the will of these countries of Poland of Hungary of slowakia that they wanted to join NATO because of the very history they had with the Soviet Union and of course Russia was still perceived in a way um as a follower of the Soviet Union

so how do you counter that argument I have no doubt of why Hungary Po and Czech Republic Slovakia wanted to join NATO the question is what is the US doing to make peace because NATO is not a choice of Hungary Poland Czech Republic or Slovakia NATO is a us-led military Alliance and the question is how are we going to establish peace in a reliable way if I were uh making those decisions back then I would have ended NATO altogether in 1991 when those countries requested NATO I would have explained to them what our defense secretary

William Perry said what our lead Statesman George Kennan said what our final ambassador to the Soviet Union Jack Matlock said uh they said well we understand your feelings but it's not a good idea because it could provoke a new cold war with Russia so that's how I would have answered it when those countries joined uh in the first wave I don't think it was that consequential in fact except that it was part of a bigger project and the project was spelled out already in 1994 there's a very good book by uh John Jan Haslam Harvard

University press called hubris which uh gives a detailed historical documentation of step by step what happened uh and uh it's it's really worth reading um so this is a now but the point I would really make is that Ukraine and Georgia were too far this is right up against Russia this is in the context of the complete destabilization of the nuclear framework this is in the context of the US putting in missile systems on Russia's borders if you listen to President Putin over the years probably the main thing if you listen carefully that he's concerned

about is missiles 7 minutes from Moscow is a decapitation strike and this is very real the US Not only would freak out but did freak out when this happened in the Western Hemisphere so it's the Cuban Missile Crisis in reverse and fortunately Nikita Kev did not stand up and say open door policy of the Warsaw Pact that's we can go wherever we want Cuba's asked us it's none of America's business what Cru said Is War my God we don't want war we end this crisis we both pull back that's what Kev and Kennedy decided in

the end so this is the real consequential Russia even swallowed with a lot of pain the Baltic states Romania Bulgaria Slovakia and Slovenia it is Ukraine and Georgia and it's because of geography it's because of Lord Palmer in it's because of the first Crimean War it's because of the missile systems that this is the essence of why there was this war thank thank you very much Professor sax for coming um here um you've mentioned that the European Union needs to formulate its own foreign policy um in the past the German Franco Alliance was a big

driver for for those policies now with the Ukraine war arguably that received the crack um do you think that in the future when the European Union is going to formulate this new foreign policy that they're going to be again in the front seat or uh should it be other other countries or other blocks um trying to make that change thank you very much oh it's hard it it's hard because uh of course you don't yet have a a constitution for Europe which really underpins a European foreign policy and it can't be by unanimity there has

to be a structure in which Europe can speak as Europe even with some uh dissent but with the European policy I don't want to over simplify how to get there exactly but even with the structures you have you could do a lot better with negotiating directly the first rule is your diplomats should be diplom ATS not secretaries of War honestly that would go halfway at least to where you want to go a diplomat is a very special kind of talent a diplomat is trained to sit together with the other side and to listen to shake

hands to smile and to be pleasant it's very hard it's a skill it's training it's a profession it's not a game you need that kind of diplomacy I'm sorry we are not hearing anything like that I'll just make a couple complaints first Europe is not NATO as I said I thought stoltenberg was the worst but I was wrong it just keeps getting worse could someone in NATO stop talking for God's sake about more war and could NATO stop speaking for Europe and Europe stop thinking it's NATO this is the first absolute Point second I'm sorry

but your high representative vice presidents need to become diplomats diplomacy means going to Moscow inviting your Russian counterpart here discussing this doesn't happen till now so this is really my point now I believe that Europe should become more integrated and more unified in the years ahead I'm a strong believer in subsidiarity so we were discussing I don't think housing policy is really Europe's main issue I think this can be handled at the local level or at the national level I don't see it as a European issue but I don't see foreign policy as being a

27 country issue I see it being as a European issue and I see security being at a European level so I think things need to be readjusted but I'd like to see more Europe for truly European issues and maybe less Europe for things that are properly subsidiary to Europe at the National and the local level and I hope that uh such an evolution can take place you know when the world talks about great Powers right now they talk about us Russia China I include India and I really want to include Europe and I really want

to include Africa as an African Union and I want that to happen but you'll notice on the list Europe doesn't show up right now and this is because there is no European foreign policy okay thank you very much and thank you very much professor Professor for this very courageous speech very clear speech also that you made I'm an me from Luxembourg uh my question is the following what are the long-term consequences of this lost War we lost the war now we have an uncertain future for NATO we have also clearly and you refer to it

the marginalization of Europe we have um a strengthening of the bricks countries which can be rivals in many uh respects so will there be a future for a Collective West over the next 20 or 30 years thank you very much I I don't believe there is a collective West uh I believe that there is a United States and Europe that are uh in some areas uh in parallel interests and in many areas not in parallel interest I I want Europe to lead uh sustainable development climate transformation Global decency I believe if the world world looked

more like Europe it'd be a happier more peaceful safer world and long longevity and better food by the way uh but uh just saying um in any event Europe has a vocation that is rather different from the American tradition and frankly from the Anglo-Saxon tradition because it's been 200 years of anglo-saxon hegemony or aspirational hegemony the British still believe they run the world it's amazing what nostalgia means uh they don't even stop it's almost like a Monty Python skit actually uh but in any event um where was I I'm thinking of Monty Python when uh

when the Knight gets all his limbs cut off and says everything's fine I'm Victorious that's Britain unfortunately uh and so it's uh it's it's it's really terrible so no I don't believe in the collective West I don't believe in the global South uh I don't believe in uh I all these geographies don't even make sense because I'm actually you know I look at Maps a lot in the global South is mostly in the north uh and the West is not even West uh and so I don't even understand what this is about I do believe

that um we could be in a true age of abundance if we got our heads on straight we're in the biggest technological advance in human history it's truly amazing what can be done right now you know I Marvel at the fact that somebody who knows no chemistry won the Nobel Peace Prize for chemistry because he's very good at Deep neural networks a genius uh Demis hbus um they figured out protein folding uh that uh generations of biochemists spent their whole lives on and now Deep Mind figured out how to do it you know by the

thousands of proteins we have friends that spent their entire life on one protein brilliant friends and uh now what we can do so if actually and same with renewable energy as everybody knows the prices come down by more than two orders of magnitude the costs we could transform the planet we could protect the climate system we could protect biodiversity we could ensure every child gets a good education we could do so many wonderful things right now and so what do we need to do that in my view we need peace most importantly and my basic

point is there are no deep reasons for conflict anywhere as every conflict I study is just a mistake it's not we are not struggling for laan's real that idea that came from malus and that became a Nazi idea was always a wrong idea it was a mistake a fundamental intellectual mistake an intellectual Mistake by the way cuz leading scientists adopted the idea that we had race Wars we had National Wars we had Wars of survival because we don't have enough on the planet as an omist I can tell you we have plenty on the planet

for everybody's development plenty we're not in a conflict with China we're not in a conflict with Russia if we calm down if you ask about the longterm the long term is very good thank you the long term if we don't blow ourselves up is very good and so this is what we should aim for a positive shared Vision under international law because of our technology things operate at a regional scale now it used to be it was Villages then it was a it was a small areas then it was unification of countries now it's regional

that's not just because regions are wonderful it's because the underlying technological reality say Europe should be an integrated area by transport by fast rail by digital by and so there's Europe the politics follows the technological realities to a very important extent we're in a world of regions now so Europe should be Europe with subsidiarity don't lose all of the wonderful wonderful national and local elements but Europe should be Europe so the good side is let's I want Europe to have diplomacy for example with Assan I spend a lot of time with the Assan countries if

the the EU green deal wonderful idea I said many years ago okay to the Assan leaders make an Assan green deal and then talk with the Europeans so that you have this uh wonderful relationship trade investment technology so last year they announced an aan green deal what did Europe do about it nothing it said sorry we're in the Ukraine war thank you no interest so this is my point the prospects are very positive if we construct the [Applause] peace can because we have to go I get all the time messages that I should here leave

the room can something very short yeah it's quite short sorry yeah uh thank you a lot for the lecture uh I wanted to ask like do you think qu out of the conflict is some sort of style of feelization um and then also do you think that's what is that the way you would have liked to see like for example Finland and Swedish nature process that like sorry um do you think that a way out of the conflict is some kind of style of fantization um and then like is that what you would have sorry

yeah is that what you would have liked to see like Sweden and finland's foreign policy as an example like is that instead of them becoming members of NATO is that the way that you would have liked to see these countries handled out foreign policy um and do you think that these countries that border Russia should just kind of succumb to their fate that okay we can't provoke Russia like this is the way we have to live um and then excellent question and uh let me let me just report one uh part about finlandization finlandization landed

Finland number one in the world happiness report year after year Rich successful happy and secure that's prenado so finlandization was a wonderful thing number one in the world when Sweden and Finland and Austria were neutral Bravo smart when Ukraine was neutral smart if you have two superpowers keep them apart a little bit you don't have to be right with your nose up against each other especially if one of them the US is pushing its nose into the other one and so finlandization to my mind has a very positive connotation so does Austrian isation Austria 1955

signed its uh neutrality the Soviet Army left and Austria is a wonderful place by the way absolutely wonderful and so this is uh basic how to avoid conflict if the United States had any sense at all it would have left these countries as a neutral space in between the US Military and Russia but that's where the US lost it okay thank you very much let me I I I just want to end with an appeal I think we both agree that we will have a the war will end within a month or two and that

means the fighting will end it doesn't mean that we will have peace in Europe the peace in Europe that has to be done by us by Europeans not by a president from the United States we have to create this peace and that is Europe which includes of course Belarus Russia and all these other countries so we have to do something and we are here at Parliament we as a parliamentarians we represent people we are the only legitimate democratically legitimate institution in the European Union maybe we should have become all a little bit more proactive in

trying to move this peace process forward across party lines I think I don't know how many parties here really are but that we can talk to each other without saying ah you're from this party you're from this party I think we really have to concentrate if here we could not take more initiative from the parliament Visa V the commission and saying we are presenting the people not you we are presenting the people and these people in Europe want peace and that's what we should go so maybe this is the beginning of and we will make

every month I will organize with my colleagues an or the same thing here about different topics which were all around it and we hope that this one we get a discussion that is different what we have in the plan where we basically don't have a discussion but that we have a discussion and also across the party and invite also people from other political parties we don't bite anybody let's discuss it in the end we want all want this the same peace for the next generation and I have plenty of children and grandchildren you too and

that's what we need okay thank you very much professor [Music] for [Music]