EP 10 | ArchiTech Office Tours | BIG HQ

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here in our Copenhagen trip and of course we cannot come to Denmark in Copenhagen without stopping by my old firm big and we're here with a very special tour in their headquarters uh this is also a special tour because uh there's been very few tours inside the office they've literally just finished construction they're even putting some finishing touches here and there but they've allowed Us in to show you guys around the space and we'll also be talking with Yen carsam who's the director of Design Technology here in big and he's going to be talking to

us a little bit about what they're doing here in Copenhagen what they're working on in terms of Bim AI game engines and all this kind of stuff so it should be pretty cool I've only seen the office at the uh party so I'm pretty cool to see it in uh daytime with everything kind of finished uh so this one should be pretty special so let's go on in and take a look [Music] all right guys we are here inside the big headquarters with uh Yen this is Yen Carlson the director of Design Technology here at

Big yep uh I had the pleasure of working with Yen for five and a half years since I've been a big we we both joined kind of crazy yeah around the same time 2018 right Y and uh yeah it's been an awesome awesome time um thank you for having us well thank you for coming yeah um such a pleasure it's cool I've never seen it outside of the party you you were here for the opening party yeah and so it's cool to see it in real life that's nice but maybe give us a give the

audience a bit of overview how many big sters are we right now how many do we have in Copenhagen and when did he move into we're roughly 350 people in Copenhagen and we moved in in September last year and we're you know as with everything you're you you need a little sort of um time to settle in but I think we're we're really getting there now where it really starts to feel like only home completely and everything is is up and running and so on so it's it's super nice it's a big space so you

need to reallyy with it break it in yeah exactly well let's uh let's take a look around we got a lot of real estate to cover a lot of space to cover so we got six floors six floors and we can walk inside you can actually uh over here in a minute you can actually look all the way up to the top we have this one spot right here where you can actually see through all the way to the to the very top of the building uh because when you stand here it does look a

little bit like The Atrium only goes to the third floor but there is actually this one spot where you can see through uh to the sixth floor so it is a continuous sort of open space all the way to the to the very top and the DT team are up there so we're sitting on the F floor so you can shout down when you see someone destroying your RIT [Music] model we have some epic models here and I think even though I'm familiar with a lot of the products it's it's really cool to see some

of these models I've not seen before but uh yeah talk this one this is quite a famous uh yeah this is the uh the project we have up in Norway called The Twist uh or the Kos Museum uh which was supposed to be an extension to the uh original Museum uh that also has a Sculpture Park uh to it um but we convinced the client to uh to build a bridge instead and and connect the Sculpture Park in a in a different way or a better way whilst sort of also creating that extension um and

at the same time we also sort of created a sculpture in itself so so instead of ticking one box we actually ticked uh three boxes with with this project um and it's it's a project we're really happy with and and and I think it's it's also just show sort of like how complex things can be but yet in a very simplistic uh Manner and uh also a great uh kind of computational projects right I've seen a lot of people try and copy this online oh yes and they never quite get some of the details of

it but uh it's a really nice examp there was a lot of computational design going into this for sure yeah yeah I mean it's one of those ones for example that cuz it it's built in these little strips this model doesn't show right and it means that yeah true this this model almost looks like it has this smooth surface but actually the the built one has almost like these rectangles uh rectangles that that twist turns ever so slightly that gives it the the the complex and organic shape but it's actually still fairly rational yeah still

flat material and you can build it y little bit of a smaller model but we have the the Noma project um which is also a super nice one with with a lot of uh how do you say it it's actually a sort of a refurbishment of an old uh Army um Ammunition Depot uh Depot or how to say like a storage for for ammunition um so uh we reconfigured that and and made it into a a restaurant that I guess most people know about by now very famous restaurant it's a great project I think beautiful

small scale project I see yeah right you don't see as much of us and there's a lot of really really beautiful details in this one in particular it's it's uh definitely a recommendation to go and see it's only going to be around for a bit longer so if you're visiting Copenhagen I think they're staying out there but they're just redoing the concept but I'm not into the finite details of it so yeah cool and over here we have the uh copen Hill project yeah the famous uh the famous G slope uh the we'll try and

walk up this tomorrow sorry we're going to try and walk up this tomorrow oh yeah great we should do that for sure uh yeah so you can you can essentially walk all the way up here and hike to the very top and look out over Copenhagen and then make your way down again or you can for that matter ski down again if you wanted to uh you could also climb up on the on the side here this is the uh the world's tallest uh climbing wall um and then as as mentioned before it's also the

the cleanest waste of energy plant on the on the planet so so it's it's a great combination of of uh of things in in one building and um have you have you skied down it yet I've I've skied down it uh and uh we we had a both at the opening but also we had a um a Christmas party out there where I uh I skied down in these uh 60s 7s skis uh super Rusty I didn't I didn't do the edges before so I I uh I came down a little too fast I couldn't

actually break in the end so uh uh I used to be a ski guide in the L so maybe maybe explain to the the audience like uh the big parties the summer party the wi party I don't think I touch on that I mean we we we do have some some really good parties for sure here it's it's uh and we always do uh costume parties uh with a theme you have to dress up you have to dress up it's it's uh it's mandatory um and and obviously some do it more than others but but

it's uh it's just a a great thing and a great tradition and and obviously in this case when when C Hill opened we we uh combined it with a a ski uh after ski theme after we always try to to do the summer party and Christmas party in in relation to a project that just completed or something that that we won or or something so so there's typically a connection between the theme and the party is you a cool location theme and a building cool location a theme and fancy dress is a must yes of

course we can come to big in Copenhagen without talking about Lego nope and uh I mean this is a Infamous model that was like part of yes is more I actually think this is the first time I've seen it in person right okay um incredible you know it it used to be in our Nuru office before we moved to to valur where we used to be before being at the headquarter here in the in the cburg uh one yeah we we used to be at the cburg area prior to this building or to this place

but before the cburg area we were in nuro in Copenhagen the smaller office before big became International or it was the back back when we only had one office yeah uh in the early days um and this model used to be there it was built there um and uh and I think everyone is is just super happy that that paga and the partners decided to bring this along and keep it it was falling a little bit apart out in in belbury when we when we were still there and and uh it was getting to a

point where people I think started to doubt whether it would actually sort of survive and and make it uh but I think everyone is super happy that we that we um brought it with us and uh essentially what what what uh what Baga did was he uh he managed to to get a Lego builder to come like a professional Lego builder to come and spend a month fulltime rebuilding the model he hasn't completely taken everything apart but but a lot of the bricks especially on the outside has been taken off and dusted off and cleaned

and put back together and and um and uh yeah it's now in a in a much better condition obviously the tricky part was that a lot of the bricks back when it was originally built were were glued together ah yeah yeah so that gave a few uh secret of Lego building challenges for this Builder to to uh to overcome but uh I think you know it's so so great to have it here and and I think it's um personally I'm a big Lego fan so so I think every architect is a bit of a Lego

I always love to come down and an architect working a big I assume is a super Lego fan yeah we've actually have like a maybe a little bit of a Side Story on there's like a group of Lego Master builders that build a lot of the big buildings right and there was even a intern I forget his name but it's got an Instagram account it's he's uh it's called U Nicholas uh Nicholas uh oh big big uh big brick or something yeah check out big brick big brick and uh he's called Nicholas Kier that was

right but uh and he actually did you guys should film that later on close up but he actually made a a leaving gift for big when he left where he made a small little miniature postcard model in Lego of the headquarter that sits over the reception area oh wow uh that came with instructions and a custom box and everything so um yeah I remember and at form giving there was a whole room of Lego big buildings which pretty cool that was like a like a childhood dream walking into that room and then we obviously we

we designed the the Lego house in Bon as well so so there's a lot of uh connections to so we we are literally standing here [Music] yeah it's one of the early uh models of of the headquarter um so you can see there's a few changes we don't no longer have a basement uh in the building and there's also a slight change to to uh to a few other things but uh but overall it's it's more or less uh uh what you have here and and what you have here in many ways um we're standing

here right now looking up and the railings of the stair has changed a little bit but but like overall it's it's more or less uh you know as is so um so yeah we're going to we're going to take a walk up floor by floor and make it to the we'll end up here on the on the roof Terrace and then we'll make our way down the uh the outside uh emergencies there in the very end um it's it's uh April right now and Denmark uh it's sunny but still chilly it's very chilly yeah yeah

so the the project here is a project we're doing in in orus in Denmark uh down on the uh the harbor front um project called eria or or the island 4 um where we essentially uh it initially started out with this Residential Building in in the in the very sort of uh end of the pier um and I think what's interesting about this master plan of of of different buildings here is that we're this project here was designed in akat when we were still in in akat here in Copenhagen um we'll come back to that

when we talk later but but uh for for a few years we were doing aicat uh so this building is done fully in aat the same goes for for the for the theater here in the front and also these small boat houses um and then sort of as you walk down the uh the master plan this is also marking the the point in time where we switched between akat to Revit so the Tower here in the middle was actually done in arat in in in SD and also uh into DD and the team actually more

or less did a full DD Set uh and then this the client decided to put the project on pause for for a couple of years to wait for these two neighboring buildings uh that are not done by us uh but they share the same basement so we had to sort of wait for for these projects to to uh get up to the same um timeline uh and then the question was because at that point in time we had already decided to to switch away from from arat and back to redit um and then the question

was do we do we wait and and and uh and see and and and hope that we will have people in two years time that that can draw an arat or do we ditch completely what we did and and Remodel and re redraw everything um and we ended up taking the very bold decision to actually scrap the the the entire DD Set uh and asked the team to redraw and remodel the entire thing from the ground up um you've given a few cool presentations on that yeah I've been talking about it in the past as

well but uh but luckily the team had a big yes hat on and and uh and we managed to actually get back up to speed in in two to three weeks time um which was super good and now we're working on this hotel uh at the very end uh which has been quite a few years in the in the making but um it's now uh coming along and it's coming out of the ground and this one uh is now done 100% in in Revit U so there's just a a nice transition here of of of

our different uh tools Arad aryad Revit transition yes and Revit Revit yes all right so so uh just quickly about the uh the building here so we um uh We've obviously made most of it out of cast in place concrete um and we use this new concrete uh called future s which is 30% uh or has a 30% less of a of a carbon footprint than traditional concrete it also has a little bit bit of a warm glow to it uh given that there's more clay in the mix um but which actually makes a you

know makes it look really nice and and a bit warmer um and then we have only one column in the entire project which is the uh what we typically refer to as the totem pole uh which is made out of Natural Stone um and uh initially we had the stone sorted by color because there is a different type of stone on each floor um but uh we also did all the engineering ourselves in house so uh at some point we um uh we got the engineers on board and they were realizing that uh maybe we

shouldn't sort them by color and sort them by density instead so now we have Norwegian granite in the bottom and another Granite uh on the next floor and then as we go up they will get less dense uh hence we have marble on the on the top floor um I didn't know that and obviously given that it's natural stone a natural stone can be fairly unpredictable in terms of there can be air bubbles or cracks and other things so it's it's obviously also not a a material that Engineers likes necessarily like it's unpredictable it's a

little bit unpredictable so we've obviously had to ultra scan and and ultrasound scan these uh to make sure that there weren't any uh issues um but yeah the the whole principle is that we only have one column and then obviously the you could say the connections between the mega beams also serves as a as a column in itself say um but it gives us these really beautiful long spans um on many of the floors and and then and then there's also a few engineering uh you could say tricks or or things that we' we've Incorporated

uh that almost creates these optical illusions I I'll get back to that in a in a second when we get upstairs but uh there's some some nice little tricks here and there yeah hang hanging beams stuff [Music] yeah so here on the First wall we have uh the team that that has been working uh on the um project here setting um this is our philarmonic uh Concert Hall in in in TR uh that we've been working on for at least a year now or so um where the idea is essentially that you can almost like

or you can arrive by boat and walk up and then continue to walk up the uh the roof um plates here and and and make it to the very top where you can look out um and and and go down again um it's right on the riverfront in in pra and and will be a a fantastic addition to to pra when it's when it's finished and it's a pretty uh serious bin model as well it's a very Ser serious bin model it's a has a high level of complexity and and uh a lot of uh

yeah complex parts to it so uh it was also a a very tough competition with a lot of of big um architectural firms in the runup so so we were uh extra happy to to win this one uh looking at the lineup of of of competitors we have so yeah very good project um and then there's a mix of of other people sorry other people mix of of other projects uh on this floor as well um and then here I think you can also just see how the the whole concept of the building is that

that each floor switches uh so that you you always have one transparent side and then on the other side you have the mega shelf uh that sort of covers back of house stuff uh we have toilets behind there we have a number of other uh things hidden behind the Shelf uh That You Don't See but then on each floor it sort of goes back and forth like this see so you got the patchwork com up yeah super nice so that's the uh the principle um and then each each floor has a a little kitchen net

to it as well uh with coffee machines and and so forth um save everyone walking up and down there's a lot of walking upstairs here we're only on the first floor yeah yeah exactly and here you can see the the beautiful uh Natural Stone that just stands completely raw cut from The Quarry wow here on the second floor we now have our model shop uh in the back there uh and a and a project team sitting here on the side um and the aim for for the headquarter here when we moved here was to to

really get the model shop out in the in the heart of the building and out in the open uh because back in our previous office it was sort of hidden a little bit away in the background uh so so we really wanted to sort of get it out and get it more visible uh because it's it's something we really sort of love and and enjoy doing all these models um and as you can see the 3D printers in the back there are just constantly running uh almost 24/7 creating different prints and different things for for

the model making process um yeah I think that that's one thing we're definitely sure since I think when I joined in 2018 there wasn't as many no and then the it has scaled up quite a bit yeah yeah so we we sadly no longer have our robotic arm that we uh used to have in the previous office we might get it back at some point but uh but that's the only thing we didn't bring from the uh from the old model shop um but from that it's it's a have you seen any other technology kind

of uh I remember some of the guys in New York we playing with phram and augmented size but yeah we have we have been playing a little bit around with phram as well for for model making um I know they're also doing that in London at the moment and and so on so uh but it's not something we've been heavily adopting here um to be honest um but we are definitely always looking at at different ways we can do things and how we can we can innovate the the model making uh side of things as

well so so on this uh side here we also have our our landscape team uh sitting H saw the the plant and Greenery uh I didn't notice that until you said that no exactly but but it's uh yeah but yeah they they're doing a a number of of of different uh landscape projects and master plant and and urban projects um some of them are in relation to some of the projects we we have uh that needs a landscape around yeah um and sometimes they also do uh competitions and wins that are strictly landscape projects on

its own like without any buildings uh to it so so it's a bit of a combination it's really grown over the years right the landscape team very much and it's it's actually still growing a lot and and uh and so on so it's it's a yeah a very positive uh part of the business for sure it's has uh has been expanding and and still is it's hard to Bim though the landscape but I mean we're getting there at least on some of it it it still comes with its complexities and and uh Revit is still

not there and so on but but uh I think we're we're seeing at least a shift more and more away from from AutoCat we're doing a lot more of the stuff in Rhino and yeah and for instance the hotel I'm I'm um uh I show downstairs uh as part of the master plan uh that we're working on uh the team here did all the landscape off that hotel in Revit so all the balconies and all the stuff that goes up and also the stuff around is is done done in Revit um so we are we

are trying to to do as much of it as we can uh but but it it depends on the size and then there's yeah without going too deep right now but but there's it for number of of technical uh aspect of that yeah and then the uh the lamps we have here is done by an artist studio called Studio drift that made these uh made these lamps for our spiral project in New York the Big skyscraper project where they are placed in the lobby entrance and then uh bag is a good friend of of the

founders of Studio drift and and uh and then they came up with with the idea of of putting some of them here and I think they they fit the the uh how to say space space and the the height of the space very well uh so it's like are they called jellyfish lights yeah exactly and and it's just you know nice to have this sort of moving part to it as well so uh that's super I actually thought they were just for the for the party but they're permanent no they're I think they're at least

un loan for semi- permanent uh I think we we might switch them out at some point uh but yeah we'll see cool all right so here on the uh the third floor we have one of the Prime views of the building to uh towards the city center you have the opera house we have the paper Island by Koba um you can also actually see a little snippet of our our ski slope Hill sadly it's it's sort of right behind the the BM BMW uh holes but uh but you can see the chimney and a little

bit of it uh would have been nice it was if it was perfectly framed there but uh yeah that's how it is um there's also a uh you might not see this in this shop but there's a water plane about to take off as well which is kind of cool yeah we have this water plane that goes between ohus and copen a few times a day so yeah yeah there's a a cabin out there isn't it that big sters can yeah we have a a small little cabin uh in relation to the to the master

plan I showed earlier yeah so in Fury you could finish work jump on the plane yes you could you could and go have a evening beer in the cabin totally and go back home next morning yeah so here we have a uh collection of some of the uh the products we're also designing ourselves um so we have a little product team on this floor that that does uh a number of things whether it's lamps or door handles and and other things Furniture um and we we generally like to to to sort of try and and

and and when we do a building to also contribute to it with with with custom furniture if we can and and other things um so here's just a few examples of some of the the work that the team have been doing over the years um um and as you will also see in in some of the meeting rooms and other places of the building we also have a lot of our Our Own Furniture here this is uh one we did lately for for pool coner um so uh yeah but the lamps in the meeting rooms

and and uh and so on is is all done by ourselves yeah and occasionally we get these as Christmas presents right true yeah every now and then it's not it's not you can't uh you can't count on it but uh the Google lights the panda yes yeah so if you come work at Big you might uh get yeah we got the panda a couple of years ago and and the Goble Goble land yeah so so yeah come look at big you might get a little big gift for Christmas right so now we're on the fourth

floor uh where the floor is a mix of of uh architectural teams and projects uh and then our whole sort of administration department um with HR Finance legal thisa uh Etc um lot serious stuff a lot of serious stuff but also a lot of good people um and then uh I guess this is also the perfect floor to just show this thing I talked about below about this uh you could say optical illusion on the on the structural side of things because this is where you can clearly see how the the TT prefab TT decks

are going towards the ban where you would normally want to have a beam that that sort of holds them up uh and catches them uh uh and and when you stand right here where we are right now it sort of gives that complete uh look and feel of as if they're just floating yeah just by nothing when you come up here at the first time you might not actually sort of notice it but but when you notice it you might not then realize that it's just the mega beam above that they're hanging from uh so

uh so it's a nice little uh there's a tiny bracket on the back end of them uh that then is is uh connected to the mega beam above um and there's actually also one of the the big beams uh on the other side it's it's sadly behind the Shelf now so so you're not able to see it but but there's actually one of the the big beams as well here that runs to the facade and then hangs from the facade um oh wow so there's a lot of very very complicated structural details uh that that

we had to to overcome with this project uh it was by no means easy and then again we got a column here yeah now we're on the we're we're in the marble section now of of the building so so here you have a a raw cut Marble Marble Stone um and again it has this completely raw cut uh direct from the Cory L field super nice and then I think here it's also uh easy to um sorry not easy but it's a it's a good uh it's a good spot to also just quickly show that

that we have this combination of the emergency uh staircase coming down but it also serves as a balcony in the in the day-to-day uh life in the building um and then each of the staircases has a little balcony uh that you can walk out to and and sort of enjoy a bit of fresh air and Sun um and then on the other side you can also go out and get out to the actual emergency uh part of it um and then you can also just use that to go up and down in the in the

sort of daytime uh so a lot of of mixers are are using it especially when it gets a little bit warmer uses it to both leave the building and and also you know come into the building when they come in in the morning so um also just take a break yeah yeah for sure [Music] yes right so here we are on the on the fifth floor where we have again a mix of of project teams working on on different a few different projects um some projects in China project in Australia and and and so on

and then in the very back down there we have the um first the engineering team uh then sustain ility team and then we have the DT space or the DT team in the very back we're sort of hidden a little bit away in the corner uh but it's it's also nice to have a a corner to to sort of sit and geek out in so so it's it's this is the most important floor this is where DT is so at ATM this is where we want to be exactly so let's let's hit down there so

yeah this is uh this is where we sit uh in the design technology team uh with a combination of of the the Bim team on that side and then our our Vis uh people here in the middle and then the computational units sitting over there there are normally three people uh but two of them are off sick today um but yeah this is this is where all the the magic happens on the DT side of things um I'm sitting here myself um and then over here we also have a our little sort of uh the

headsets collection of headsets with the this is the first time I've seen the Vision Pro in real life right okay but here it is wow so I thought I would put it up for for the occasion today um I only just received it three days ago from our New York New York team so uh so we haven't started to to Really sort of play around with it yet um Amad on on our New York side have already been playing around with it for for a couple of of months and and it's already deep into to

developing bespoke apps for us uh on it so so um he's already showing some some really good uh stuff uh we'll uh we'll talk of him next uh month perfect but then I'm sure he will be able to to show you a little bit more uh of the insights and bits and Pops of of of that but uh you know I've I've uh tried it the other day uh also in in the runup to our ATN pucha uh I filmed I filmed the deck uh that I was going to show through the through the Vision

Pro and and uh it's incredibly detailed and you know there's no lack at all so like the motion sickness that some people typically get you just don't have that some somehow so yeah definitely a a prime product I would say what about these guys can you talk about those or these are I think uh some some prototype samples for for a big uh Pavilion we're doing um but uh not sure about sort of the status of these ones so uh but but I think they we used them for an exhibition uh to sort of show

this uh this yeah big Pavilion that that sort of can um I think actually they're supposed to be done out of melium uh but um I would need to check with the team down there uh to be sure as I mentioned earlier so all the all the different floors also have uh different um different things behind the shelf so in this case here we have a hidden meeting room we sometimes refer to it as the Harry Potter Harry Potter room uh and we have the printer rooms and we have toilets and other things sort of

all hidden behind the the wooden shelf um and then it also acts as the sort of we also have the some of the mechanical ventilation sitting in be sort of inside of it and behind it so so it serves many purposes uh both as a display wall and and displaying models but also you know hiding things away and so on so it's it's a both Form and Function very fitting for Big Y exactly so here we are on the uh on the sixth floor uh where we have this amazing view towards uron with the uh

bridge to Sweden in the background uh and yeah just a a nice sort of uh undisturbed view to the Sea um this floor is currently still being sort of wrapped up we're still doing a bit of U of construction work up here but we're getting close to have it finished um and this floor will will serve as a exhibition space and you could say a VIP space as well and and a place where we can really bring clients up and and curate different uh setups with models and other things um there's going to be a

meeting big meeting room in the back uh some smaller uh smaller ones in the in the very back and then we have a kitchen as well we can use for catering and then other purposes um and then we'll go to the rooftop uh Terrace in a in a second that is connect Ed to this space and and down there we have these two Mega sliding doors that you can you can press a button and then they will open up and and um and sort of make it one big space together with the with the rooftop

we also do events hosting and stuff like that exactly so so we're we're definitely looking at at using this for a lot of events and other other things next time we come we'll bring a pachucha pucha could be a this could be a perfect place for p yeah for sure yeah so over here is is a a little sort of a personal favorite favorite of mine and I know it's it's same goes for you you you also showed it in in episode one um I think this one you have way more though I think we

have most of them here uh but this is essentially uh a lot of different big projects at the same scale um so it's almost like a little sort of mini Big World of of of projects um but I always love to come up here and and uh sort of you know hold things up against each other and see like s sort of how they compare in scale and and so on so it's um it's a really nice wall of of of projects we have here um and I think you also quite quickly notice the you

know how how big some of these projects are when you see them up close it's it's uh especially when you compare them to some of the the smaller ones you can take our headquarter here and place it right next to the spiral in New York and you can see how how how big how that line up you know it's uh it's I think what I say is you it looks like it's in scale order so you go all the way down to the containers uh the what they called um the urban riggers Urban riggers and

then it's sort of like growing from shelf to shelf to the big the big boy at the top yeah so this is uh the rooftop Terrace of the of the 64 we made it we made it to the top we made it to the top um and obviously we haven't given that we moved in in September last year we haven't actually used this a whole lot yet because it's been so freezing cold and still is um but but obviously we're we're looking very much forward to to warmer times and summer times and and where we

can really enjoy this space yeah and break out up here and have lunch and other things um so so this is uh yeah as I mentioned earlier inside a a space where we can open up the two uh two big doors and and really uh make it one big room together with the uh the rest of of the floor inside um and then over here you have the uh the great view we saw downstairs on the third floor uh you have this fantastic view over the city with all the spires uh the Opera paper island

the uh uh copen Hill ski slope in the back there um kobus Silo on that sideen cob yeah there's a number of different uh projects you can spot from from this uh from this angle so uh nor Haven's really becoming like a bit of a hub for architect right right oh yeah totally on on this pier uh alone we have uh we're out here at the very end and then we have uh bam lton Architects as as our neighbor we have kobba further down there's also Godly paladan Architects uh and yeah a number of others

in the close neighborhood so uh there's a lot of it's almost becoming an architectural ghetto uh yeah so now we're going to we're going to go downstairs again and we're going to actually sort of make the whole tour down uh on the outside there uh uh so we're going to see if you can follow us along and uh and then we'll just do an do it quickly one yeah it's freezing so this is where it starts um this is the last a coming up um where you again have a a fantastic view over yeah the

northern part of Copenhagen and and uh the sea out there and and everything so uh right now you have the Container Terminal on that side which will be moved away to another location so that whole side over there is also going to be developed uh in the near future very cool there's so many different angles to the building yeah yeah and then as we come down here you can also see that we've made sure to to cover the the edges with with a lot of different uh plant species um so hopefully in a few years

time this will be uh be fully uh grow over and and and be much more Lush and green [Music] yeah do we end up near that back door [Music] yeah it's a fun little gun it has this new stone sculpture from friend of gas from burningman Who ah I think that artist does the cable yeah exactly [Music] exactly there we go boom emergency exit and uh way home balconies and everything yeah so awesome super great my name is yens cost uh and I'm the director of Design Technology here at Big in in Copenhagen all right

yens thank you so much for the uh epic tour definitely the most floors we've ever covered so far six floors and coming back down incredible space I'm a little bit jealous I didn't get to work in this office it's yeah it's it is incredible to sit here I got say but now let's sit down and uh talk about some tech yes uh obviously for those of you in the audience uh this is the second time we featured big uh obviously I talked a little bit about uh DT back in London um so I cover the

basics in that and so for those in the audience go back and watch that and then come back um but for you I think we can touch on some other parts that I didn't touch on right um and also maybe to begin with is to talk a bit about your background because you got quite an interesting link to Big you were initially an intern in the in the early days of big yes then you went on the side reest to other firms you work for Fosters for a bit and then you came back yes uh

so maybe talk to the audience through that that Journey yes so I I joined big as an as an intern back in 2009 2010 around that time um and had a half year sort of official stay and then I stayed a couple of month uh almost a year afterwards as well so I or the the total stay was about a year um and initially I was sort of brought in as an intern to actually try and see if we could get some Revit models going for some of the projects um as most of you might

know Revit back then weren't the weren't the nicest tool for for complex shapes uh so we didn't fully succeed at the time but uh but we did actually get it going on a few things and I I actually managed to do this uh tiny little Pavilion uh Square in Pavilion out at uh our project super ke uh a very famous Urban project we did back then the famous big park with the L yeah so there is this a red and white striped Square in Pavilion that does not look like a big project uh in its

design but uh and the story behind that one was that actually uh it was a a neighbor to the to the park out there who who sort of uh requested to have a square Dan Pavilion as part of the uh you know everyone could could sort of put in request for features from their nationality to the to their bigger project and then this lady had requested a square in Pavilion and and the only thing we had back then was just a photo of her of the original Pavilion in the us and then we knew that

the person standing next to one of the columns was uh 190 in height and that's what I had to sort of model and draw it from oh wow but a fun little uh project and and it might be the first Revit project at Big at you know in general yeah so and that was in 2009 was that before the kind of carlsburg office yeah so back then we were located in in nle uh and we were only about 60 people at the time so it was completely different we had no International offices and and uh

most of the projects were in Denmark and and uh it it was a very different office at the time and and uh and it's fun to think of that time and then sort of especially when you then come back like I did uh eight years later uh and and when I came back we were roughly 600 people globally so so so you know quite a crazy expansion um over the years um but it was it was fantastic to come back and realize that the on although the office had changed the the spirit and the the

sort of yes is more attitude was still here and and is is very much still to this day uh I think so it was it was good yeah good times yeah so uh the audience have a bit of an idea of how DT works from uh our first episode y um but maybe let's talk about your role as a director because obviously you're working here in Copenhagen but we're also always connected to all the other offices and also the DT team here in Copenhagen you do have a bit more right of computational Firepower you got

a big good bib team and you've also got a bit of the immersive uh viz world yeah yes so I think we uh as you as you said we have a fairly large team here in Copenhagen uh that mostly serves Copenhagen some of them also works on what we could call calls how to say Global projects um which can be development projects like a a ribbon for for Rhino or Rippon for Revit and so forth um Bim wise we're uh we typically try and stick to one bimer per 75 pixers so so the Bim teams

whether you go to London or New York or whatever is roughly same size if you measure number of pixels um then we do have a a few compensational designers here that are specifically uh on computational sign that they might not have in in the same way in the other offices um um and yeah then we have a a one one full-time visualizer sitting um doing classical this work um and then we also have been looking into a lot of immersive stuff um with you know unreal and and the likes and and and a bit of

unity and and so on so yeah which we'll we'll get into and then in in in case of my role obviously I'm I'm looking after these people locally in in copen so I'm overseeing the the the local office and I'm the say the manager for these people uh then I also help the the local office here in terms of questions and and you know all sorts of things that might end up on my table in the end or when it filters through the organization then if it's Tech related it typically lands on my table to

to deal with um but then obviously I also have a role in in trying to align the global offices and and how we do things and and you know coordinate things between Yan our our director of Bim in in New York and and others like like yourself when you around before you left yeah and it was it was kind of a nice way because each each office is kind of solving their own problems yeah project wise but uh we were always like very connected and sharing what we know between the offices and yeah there a

great deal of support between the offices in terms of of uh workflows and what we do and yeah helping out and yeah it's really good I think there's a a very positive Vibe within the the DT team so yeah that's definitely one to miss yeah that's good to hear I know when you when you when you came back to Big in uh 2018 you came back as like the bin manager in of Copenhagen office uh which was a very unique time right because uh as you've talked about before when we were standing on the models

Bim Copenhagen was originally a aryad firm yeah at least for a couple of years we were we were arat based in in Copenhagen uh and then you were coming on to to you know become the bin manager and transition the company from akad to Revit so maybe uh maybe explain a little bit about that process and and how that came about yeah so so actually already when I was at Fosters we uh I I did have a conversation with big because I always kind of knew that I wanted to go back to Copenhagen eventually um

and then big did reach out at some point uh and we were having talks around uh you know coming back uh initially the idea was for me to come in and lead the Revit side of the business because they were still using Revit a bit as well on on the side um and then the other guy who who used to be here should then sort of lead the arat side of of of the business um but I kind of told them back then that that in my opinion wouldn't work uh and and they sort of

had to make up their mind for one or the other uh that I just couldn't see myself in a in a hybrid system or hybrid platform uh setup um and then luckily uh one year later uh they did to to go full on Revit and and uh and that was happen to be right around the same time where where um now my wife but my girlfriend back then that I found back in Copenhagen uh decided to try and pull me back home so so it it it became sort of perfect timing uh so I had

a short stay at AIA but then I um you know when when big phoned me up I was like I I had to had to go for it it was just you know meant to be somehow I felt it was uh yeah it was a big challenge cuz you had to kind of uh you said one of the product we were talking about downstairs you made that bold choice to literally rebuild the building and everything yeah yeah uh to transition to Rabbit so I think that building was probably the hardest choice we had to deal

with at the time because it was uh it was right around when we joined and and uh but obviously uh having you know a few years before that I was at Fosters for for three years and and and was part of the very early uh Bim team that joined or the very first B people that joined the the company and and not that I was leading the the implementation per se but at least I was I was very much part of that Core group right who who you could say rolled out B Fosters um so

I was kind of used to to this whole thing about convincing people or not convincing but like this whole idea of of of you need to get people to shift from from one mindset to another mindset or one tool to another tool and and uh and obviously also a lot of learnings that I took with me from fers was was something I could use here and apply here um so I wouldn't say that we copied uh in any way the setup we had F because they also do a number of things differently to what we

do here so it you know it wasn't like I could just take whatever we did at Fosters and apply it one to one yeah but there were certainly a lot of the learnings from that transition at Fosters that I could bring with me and and apply here as well and and uh and also you know do things with we learned that didn't work and then you know do it differently here as well so so you know it was um an interesting process I would say and and uh I think we've succeeded uh in in making

the transition we're uh you know we're fully up and running we haven't missed a a deadline at least not due to to any Bim issues or or Revit issues and and uh um as I showed at the pachucha last night uh I think the breath of of complex Bim models we've we've cranked out over the years is is just showing that we're uh yeah we're on a good path I think yeah Bim has always been pretty solid um you know now if the New York office uh delivering Master products you guys and now London and

Barcelona can build on top of that yeah exactly and I think also a lot of the stuff we've been working on is also the whole you could say the alignment between offices and and not that we're doing everything completely the same but there's just a lot more talk between the offices going on and and as we talked about before like this whole vibe there is within the the global DT team uh so yeah I I think our our setup nowadays is is is Rock Solid I think yeah I mean talking about Bim I know you've

uh uh and a really important topic to you at the moment is uh real world Bim and uh you know this world we live in the tools are currently not quite delivering the true promise of Bim and we also live in this world of uh what what we've been call Bim Bim ification like an over Bim ification of stuff and these like uh thousands of ISO standards and and standards in all these different places yeah what's your view on the future of of B and how we might improve the tools but also like this uh

bureaucracy and uh what's the word for methodologies that're putting it into practice I think there's definitely a lot of stuff happening right now in the there's a number of different startup firms uh coming out of of the Shadows uh that are working on all sorts of new Bim tools uh a lot of them partly because uh we did all these uh there was all these letters to Autodesk a couple of years back uh in 2020 and and and later uh which I was also heavily involved in uh or at least behind the scenes on on

some of it um so I've also been very much involved in the whole conversation and and a lot of these different discussions both with autod disk and I'm also now talking to a number of other uh of these startup firms uh and and I think we're definitely seeing both a lot of positive change within autod disk on this um and we're also seeing a lot of these firms that are now coming out as as mentioned so I think there's a lot of interesting stuff happening uh and I'm I'm more positive now in regards to that

than I than I used to be yeah uh so at least things are changing uh which is great um in terms of the whole bureaucracy thing I think that's the almost the opposite I think that goes in the wrong direction at the moment and I think we as an industry we have a a tendency to to over complicate things at the moment we are constantly coming out with new standards new paperwork new things we have to to deal with new regulation around certain topics and things and some of it might be for the better um

and I'm not strictly saying that I'm I'm against the iso standard for instance I I do think that certain standards are great because if if we can all work more or less the same way then then then that's great but but I think where where where the chain typically Falls office is when you see uh we have quite often see projects that are coming in where where where you can clearly see there was a Bim consultant on the project from on the client side that just needed to generate a lot of work for himself and

and ended up just like writing page over page over page on on on all sorts of requirements that you need to comply with um we've seen I think the craziest I've seen was a set of B requirements uh on on 400 Pages uh yeah that literally included every single possible standard you could you could come up with uh even standards that would supersede other standards and and to a point where it just gets ridiculous and and to a point where it's you're never going to be able to comply with it so you just know from

the get-go that they're going to come after you because then you're not compliant here or you're not compliant there or you're not you know um and I I sadly I think we see that actually more and more where I'm kind of missing the the more sort of rational thinking and the more sort of like pragmatic approach to to this uh I actually do think that in Denmark we have a very pragmatic framework around ICT and and Bim uh and I guess partly also to do with the fact that we were actually the first country uh

in the world to to to roll out a Bim mandate back in 2007 um so so I think that means that that you know the whole thinking around Bim has ured over a lot of years now and and uh and I think even though our some would say our framework might be somewhat simple but it also means that a lot of the firms are used to it and and there's just a great deal of trust between firms because we know how this framework works and and so on um so I think there's a lot of

people that are slightly skeptical about the new ISO coming in yeah and and how will that affect the uh the Danish framework and so on um is there any kind of uh indications of things that you see both in the tools of future Bim for example like I see a lot of these new new tools are on the cloud so they're like web based uh or I mean everyone claims to be AI driven um you almost have to is there any like uh little flavors of this one is kind of doing something interesting in this

or like topics is it Cloud going to cloud-based or yeah I think seems like everything is going to the cloud these days and and for good reasons uh obviously Cloud also means that it it gets harder to do stuff offline yeah I I guess that's the only big downside of of of the cloud you could say uh but that not that that's a huge issue for us I I think um but yeah it seems like you know most things are going to the cloud and and browser based and and uh and so on and I

think some of it uh actually might be fine I I do think that we might need uh some of the these sort of you could say hybrids where you have a a little bit of a a tool sitting on your computer that that runs or spins off desktop uh a smaller desktop version of of certain tools but but um uh you know I think especially also with a lot of the AI stuff coming in I think uh you know I'm I'm super Keen to see when we can you know get going with with AI driven

documentation for instance uh and I'm sure it's going to come both in Revit and other toolings uh soon like it's it's uh not soon soon but like I I definitely think that this will be the next big thing for for the companies to attack uh so we can get rid of having to sit and and click a thousand times to apply dimensions and just have it like Auto auto Dimension and then you know we can spend our time checking whether the dimensions are lined up correctly so also on the on the standard side have you

also seen anything that shows improvements in this for example people are training chat gpts specific gpts on these things and maybe you could throw these contracts in and yeah I think we will we will definitely get there I think we're already seeing uh like companies not not sorry companies we're already seeing sort of a um movements towards for instance in Denmark the uh we have this company called mulio that that takes care of all the Frameworks and all the standards and so on um they're working on an AI uh base sort of a gbt that

that that um will will read the Danish building regulations and where you can ask you know stuff about build building regulations um obviously I think in in in the context of of that and standards the the question mark will be like how do you then deal with the licensing of these standards and how can I'm sure they can work that out but but that will be the the I guess the only sort of blocking Stone to this like how do you how do you deal with licensing to these standards and so on but I I

gave a talk in in London last year at next build um about this Rising bureaucracy over over complication of of things and and so on and um you know one of the slides I had there was was showing all these different standards from a specific project that was was uh lined up and and on the slide I tried to sort of then take all the page numbers or like the amount of pages per standard and and sort of made a sum in the end and I think it was the total was 4,000 something uh pages

and it would take someone uh 30 hours to read if you took like an average uh like person's uh reading speed um so obviously back then we joked about afterwards like that it would be amazing if you could just like shove all those standards into an AI uh model and and have it sort of dissected completely and then just you could then say tell me what what's in it for me when it comes to quantification or or where do we need to look out for this and that um instead of having to read for for

30 hours uh and I think we're we're getting very close to that so so you know I think that that's going to be a very welcoming uh hack too so standards so I know uh you're a big fan of uh gamification game engines unreal I think this was an area we we were both very excited about uh developing further big um of course you you your Infamous Counter Strike experiment with this place yeah was uh went uh we could say semi viral in in the architecture world yeah yeah uh and I know now you got

fortnite and all this kind of stuff to kind of continue that idea but what excites you about game engines for architecture and and uh well I think it's it's uh when when I remember when I first graduated uh back in in 2012 I I sat with a A friend of mine back then and we sort of sat there and talked about the future and and tools and and other things and then uh uh I sort of set TR back then that that the moment the the game industry and the movie industry at least the tech

side of it starts to merge with with the AC industry that's when it's going to get really interesting um and and back then we weren't really at that point endcap was not even a thing back then and and uh game engines weren't really at least not something you mentioned in an AC context um but I just back then had a feeling that it would come somehow uh and there were already sort of indicators that it was going that direction um and I think we've we've been at that point now where where they have been to

a degree emerging for a while now um or at least for a few years uh and we see it more and more and and obviously with unity and unreal being the two big players in in in that field uh that that opens up so many uh so many ways of doing things and um and I think the entry point to go from a an architectural model to a game is so low now like it's it's it's it's so straightforward to to to go and do that um obviously The Counter Strike example you brought up uh

was actually a little bit more tricky because it was not I I didn't go through onreal or or Unity I I went for a very old school 3ds Max Pipeline fpx 3 disc Max use that plugin for 3 disc Max to to to get it going and and um yeah we we it's the building we're sitting in and and the map I the map I made was was was a one to one uh so the geometry that came from rabbit was sitting one to one inside the map um which is essentially the model we also

used to pull the concrete out of um and I did not scale it up or down so it was in many ways the the real world sitting inside Counterstrike one to one uh I didn't real realized but but when I started doing it that uh that a person in Counter-Strike is 180 in height uh I didn't realize that it was actually sort of scaled correctly to the real world um so so it was you know and and I ever since I did that during during covid and and so on I've just you know really like

this idea of of bringing the real world inside a game and and play it and and walk around it and and and uh and obviously you know a lot of of people here and and and surely in many other firms uh have been playing with realtime tools for for years now with andscape and lumion and and others and um we are also heavy andscape users here um and and already that is is you know makes you feel like you're running around inside a computer game at times at least um so it's it's it's definitely something

that I'm still very interested in and and uh I'm still trying to find the good use case for for uh applying it on a on a more sort of serious basis and a serious project or finding the right client that could really get excited about it um and I I do think there is some some interesting prospects for for doing it like museums where you could potentially you know have a a virtual Museum on a website with pixel streaming where you could walk around and and check out the museum if you're not able to go

there yourself and in person um and there could be a number of other uh things where it it really really could make sense to to gamify it and and and make use of these things and and and it's just um and then if you also take uh XR and and VR into that mix that makes it just even more exciting to to immerse yourself in these things and and I still have this dream of mine we haven't got to do it yet but but we we talked about the models upstairs with a little uh Big

World of of of of models in scale um and and I still have this dream of of making a a big downtown big world where where we line up all the different projects in a little downtown uh style um where you can just walk around and and immerse yourself with all with all the projects and and really again get that feeling of of being there with them in scale um so that might be a a thing we're going to work on at some point but um so we got mini mini big world but we could

have a virtual big world yeah and and then maybe you can imagine having like this configurator where you can walk up and then you can say I want to have big headquarter on this side and I want to have the spiral or something else on the other side and they will just pop up and you can stand there and walk around them and and maybe not walk inside uh maybe that would be a bit too much yeah to to having to texturize and so on but like uh you know it could be could be a

fun one to uh to pres I think also the your Counterstrike example was sort of like a very early fun idea of maybe a digital twin because the the thing unique about this building is uh we designed it as big yeah but you guys now live in it so that model could live on and you know I know a lot of people talk about digital twins but yeah yeah you can have virtual meeting rooms or you know yeah yeah track the performance of the building or something yeah absolutely I think the problem with the Counter-Strike

one is that they changed Counter-Strike now or they released the new version so the map is no longer yeah no longer working so it used to be live on on big.dk so everyone could go to the browser and and actually play the map um but sadly it's uh it's no longer function to convert I have to I have to get my head around into fortnite for everyone I am uh I am actually have been looking at that and I am still tinkering with that as a little side project but I just haven't had the time

to finish it uh I did make a teaser in LinkedIn at some point about it and I have got the headquarter model into fortnite uh but I'm just having some compiling issues at the moment I'm still trying to get my head around so um stay tuned one day stay tuned if comes again I'll uh I'll find time for it yeah we need another pandemic as we've been doing these tools we've been of course we got to talk to everyone about AI um again I know I've I talked a little bit about how we've been experimenting

with AI at Big over the last few years yeah um I know things have developed a little bit further recently but maybe touch on um if we're using it in any new way but also your general thoughts on AI whether it's Bim or you know this world of diffusion or or CHP GPT yeah well I think it's it's you know as you're saying it's it's it's hard to avoid it these days and I I I definitely think it's it's an area that just is extremely interesting um I must say in the beginning when I when

I first started looking at some of the mid Journey stuff that I I was super impressed by it but I also a little bit back then at least found it hard to see how that could slot into our process um and I think we're also at least here we're we're trying to be very careful about not letting ourselves be sort of driven by whether it's m or stable diffusion or others but like we we we don't want to all of a sudden become like a mid-journey Architecture Firm yeah uh so we want to sort of

make sure that the AI tools are aiding our design process or supporting it as a tool uh but without sort of driving it um I think that's very important for us uh but I think now now that you seeing like with with stable diffusion like how much of a sort of how much control you now have on on actually making sure that your design stays as is and then the rest gets uh rendered or gets you know populated or whatever happens in that way uh I think it's it's really showing its promise now and we're

already actually using uh we we've been using AI for for a while now for mood boards and for ideas and inspiration and so on but we are um we're uh seeing an increase now in for instance our visualizer can can use it to cut out uh things from the from the scene yeah and then Photoshop it into his own scene uh we're also uh we have been doing a a video where we play some Stone sculptures that were actually just 3D prompted uh Stone sculptures that we just you know yeah prompted and placed and then

we drizzled a little bit of snow on top and they just look incredible you know and and uh you know instead of s sitting there and searching the the the web for for stone sculptures that would fit we could just sit and easily prompt whatever and and then once we're happy with it we could just very easily bring it in and and uh stuff like that is just super interesting and I think it it's we're going to definitely see more and more of that and then um as mentioned before I think the the whole also

documentation the the less sexy side of AI is is definitely also something that I personally is is very hyped about and and I uh can't wait to sort of see when that comes around I I see a huge potential in AI for classification for metadata for data in General on on models uh B models and and the likes um yeah and for for documentation in general for for drawing production for and so many things like I I I I really think it has a huge promise for for a lot of the more sort of repetitive

uh tedious tasks that that you sometimes have to uh to deal with the less sexy stuff but yeah that's like a it's a reoccurring theme as well it's not I think this is feir AI taking over as the designer but it's really where it gets really interesting you use it as like a super assistant or like a super power I still you know I I know there's a lot of people saying ah it's going to take over and and the whole profession will will die I I I certainly don't think that's the case um and

and at least right now I just have find it very very hard to believe that would ever be be the case I'm sure it's going to take over a lot of things but hopefully that will just leave us with more time to to design and do great designs and buildings and and uh which should be the aim for it so so I don't think we'll be out of out of profession out of work in in you know anytime soon I'm not one of the Doomsday AI thinkers at least that's a good way to end on

the AI chat another question we've been asking everyone is uh for maybe architects in the audience that want to come and join big and be part of the DT team yeah uh what do you look for and what advice do you give to to someone that might be interested in that I think as a general advice and and this would not go for only just joining the DT team it would just go for anyone I would always urge and advise people to uh to join a practice whether it's big or any any other practice really

uh but I would any day urge people to uh to join somewhere and then or join someone and then and then really try and see a project through from from start to the end uh and maybe not just one but like a couple of projects where you really get that feeling and the understanding of how a project timeline looks like what are the challenges in an early phase in a later phase and and and even when you get on site and construction uh I'm not saying that you have to follow it through to the very

very completion date like it's but but at least into the you know CD uh construction documents uh pH of things and and uh and then from there on you can decide as a designer as an architect whether you whether you want to focus your efforts on the early stage or whether you want to focus your efforts on being a really good uh later phase document documentation kind of person or if you um yeah more technical person or if you want to go more into the tech DT domain um so I think that's really a key

advice from my point of view and and also something that I've done myself I've I've I've been doing a number of projects before going where I I ended up going I always knew that I wanted to go in the Bim Direction and Tech direction from the get-go uh so that was always a focus of mine but I I was also very I was also very focused on making sure that I tried all the faces uh so I sort of had that as a f you could say foundation for my my future decisions and whatever uh

and and I still to this day when I sit in meetings with with big clients nowadays I I can still sometimes uh you know pull on some of the experience I got from from previous projects you know being in those later phases you know so so it it you know even stuff that I did 10 years ago proves valuable to today understanding that full process but then obviously if if you want to join the DT team DT side of things I would definitely again depending on what sort of role you're looking for if you're more

Bim person coding might not be such a important matter but a bit of coding experience is obviously always great whether you're sitting in Rhino sorry whether you're sitting in Dynamo or whether you're sitting in grasshopper or you know uh something more agnostic then then that would still be a a good thing to to know about but then at least in the case of us given that we're so heavily Rhino and Revit based having a little bit of an understanding of both of the tools is almost a requirement yeah yeah our other final question we always

ask one everyone 2024 there's so much going on in the tech side of things AI fomo game engines yes 3D printing robotics all this kind of stuff is there anything you are particularly excited for on the horizon I think the the whole gamification game engines uh real time rendering um that side of of of things is still going to be something that I'm always going to be excited about having been a big computer gamer in my previous life I'm not gaming that much anymore but I used to game a lot and so it I I

think that will always stick to me uh somehow uh obviously I'm also excited super excited about AI but I'm I'm maybe not one of those that are like extremely hyped like I'm not you know I'm I'm I'm I'm hyped about it but but in a more sort of relaxed uh way uh I'm following quite closely what's going on but I'm not not I'm not sort of one of those that are you know setting fire to my hair and excitement over uh over it in in that sense um but but uh you know those things it's

I think it's an interesting time to be in AC at the moment like there's a lot of stuff happening there's a lot of companies coming to to Market there's the whole talk about Bim 2.0 and and uh and how that's going to affect things and and I think this shift we will see in the coming years of of new tools new programs old programs that are starting to realize that they now have to talk to the new tools and and uh you know the whole D change of Dynamics in the AC field within tools and

and so on is super exciting and I can't wait to um see it how see how it all plays out I'm I'm under NDA with a number of of different firms so I do know at least a bit of where things are going but but uh I still even when I you know having that knowledge that I do have I I still don't really have the full picture of where this will or how this will play out so I think it's it's a exciting times in in in in that sense yeah yeah I do think

it's exciting I think it's true that like there's a lot of fomo around AI but actually there's also like last year unreal there was so many cool things that were going on and developing but everyone was kind of fomo over AI yeah yeah and and and also now with with unity and and and The Vision Pro and and you know there's there's a there's just a lot of interesting things happening and um it's GNA it's going to be fun to follow all right guys thank you so much for joining us on this amazing tour uh

I'm blown away by seeing the headquarters it's the first time I've seen it in daylight huge thank you to Yen and the big team for having us in and showing us around as always if you like this episode give us a like And subscribe the more people that support it the more offices we can get into so thank you for your support so far and we'll see you in the next episode