An End Times Discussion with Max Lucado

[Music] [Music] I'm Max loo coming to you from Waco Texas the home of the silos the brazus river Baylor University and last but not least my newest grandbaby you know being a grandparent is one of life's greatest joys for deanland and me but with it comes some worry and anxiety about the Future these are some crazy days we are living in and so many of us have so many questions let's talk about it I'd like to invite you inside to join me and a few friends for an honest conversation about what happened happens [Music] [Music]

next you know we all have questions about life death this upside down World in which we live and where all of this is headed and these are the questions that inspired me to write my letter latest book what happens next there's a pandemic of anxiety sweeping the world and many are wondering if we're living in the end times I believe it's possible that we are not just because of what I read in scripture but also because of what I read and see in the news there is chaos in our world but rest assured nothing that

is happening is a surprise to God during the writing of of what happens next I decided that I would start at the beginning in my study I found it really encouraging to discover that God's promises have never failed so take a look with me at the incredible unfolding of God's plan in what I call Heaven's timeline it began with God's promise to Adam and Eve at creation next his covenants with his people the promise of the Messiah as prophesied in Daniel and the arrival of Jesus his death his burial his resurrection and return to paradise

and that brings us to where we are now the church age from here we look toward what happens next the Rapture of the church a time in Paradise in which we are rewarded by Christ and wedded to Christ the Glorious return of Christ the Millennium judgment and then finally eternity now we're not going to cover all of this in depth today but I find it helpful to have a vision and I go into great detail regarding each of these milestones in the book what happens next the important take away for you right now is this

at the end of days God will make all things right well hi everybody good looking group I'm so grateful that you're here thank you for your time I do appreciate it and I'm really looking forward to hearing what's on your mind and and what's in your heart have a feeling that your questions are or everyone else's questions as well now please just ask easy questions that's the rule of the day just easy questions Nicole so good to have you what what's your question hi Max thank you um it's exciting that you're writing a book about

this topic can you share why you decided to write a book about the end times I didn't have anything else to do you know um I have a couple of reasons a couple of answers to that question uh first of all you know I'm just genuinely curious personally uh part of that reason is my next birthday is going to require 70 candles on the cake and I don't think they make cakes that big and so I'm a little worried about that uh as you get older I don't know if this is true for everybody but

as I've gotten older I've gotten uh really curious intrigued by what happens next I'm getting close to the point where I have as many friends who have already passed over into heaven as those who are here with me and so uh I'm I'm curious my bald spots getting bigger my hair's getting grayer and so my questions are getting deeper I'm I'm really really curious I'm also concerned I mean who wouldn't be this is a very very severe time in which we live we've got uh Wars in multiple fronts and Wars threatening in multiple locations and

so um these are uh severe times severe times there's a a group that is committed it's a secular Group by the way that is committed to studying the prospects of uh end of the world events and their most recent report declared we are 90 seconds to midnight 90 seconds to midnight so these are uh disruptive times however for the person of faith I believe we have hope I believe we have reason to have hope I do believe we should uh keep our eyes up keep our knees bent and keep our hearts open keep our Bibles

open I do not believe we need to panic I do think we just need to to pay attention and I'm praying that uh this discussion about what happens next will help people to do exactly that great question great question hi Max I'm Debbie and just as you were saying there's so much chaos in the world there's so much Division and are you thinking that we're already living in the end times I believe uh we're not just in the end times I believe we're in the end of the end times uh Jesus in his sermon regarding

the end times uh spoke about all the things that we're seeing now right the crazy weather patterns the wars and the rumors of wars and a long list of signs that he gave us uh he said that all these are the beginning of labor pains in Matthew 24 I have it on good authority that is the hour of delivery draws near the labor pains increase in frequency as well as in intensity and so Jesus was speaking of a time in which the world will see not just those signs but see them happen faster and see

them happen with more intensity now it's often mentioned that these signs have existed every in in every day uh since Jesus ascended into heaven indeed they have I'm convinced that a page in prophetic history was turned on May 14th 19 1948 when Israel was reinstated as a nation this is a prophecy that was offered uh many times in the Old Testament and fulfilled on that day what a remarkable what a remarkable event how many other nations have been kicked out of their Homeland Israel twice and then returned to their Homeland Israel twice as we point

out several times in the book many of the end times prophecies require Israel existing as a nation which it does it does and so I believe that we are in a unique era of history now we do not know when Christ is going to return but I do believe that we would be wise during these days to just pay attention to keep our eyes up we don't need to freak out but we do need to keep our hearts soft as we're anticipating entering into this unique time in human history how you doing Max my name

is Josh we ham and I have the privilege of serving our student athletes spiritually at Bay University and there's a lot of conversation and confusion around the topic of the end times my question to you is do you think Jesus is coming soon or do you think he's coming a little lateer that's a great question Josh great question um I do think we need to constantly remind ourselves what Jesus said and that is no one knows the day or the hour uh not even the angels in heaven but only the father that's in Matthew 24

and verse 36 and while we cannot know the exact moment that Christ will return we are wise to pay attention to the signs and these signs are not intended to scare us they're simply intended to prepare us you know when I was in the fourth grade uh and my brother 3 years older than I uh was in the seventh grade my dad went off to Maine from Texas for three months three months my mom was left in charge of these two hoodlums and boy did we drive her crazy and she would often tell us you

know your dad's coming back and depending upon what we needed to hear she would either say that as a word of comfort or a word of warning you know if were lonely and missing him she would say now your dad's coming back if we were just the opposite she' say now your dad's coming back you know as as Christians we we need both reminders we do and awareness of the impending return of Christ will cause us to lead a a holy life to stay alert uh in awareness of the return of Christ Will Comfort Us

in hard times these hard times like the ones in which we find ourselves many people these days look into the future and they see only reason for anxiety reason for fear but we can choose to face the future either with the eyes of fear or through the lens of faith and our lord Jesus loves us and he tells us what to expect again not to scare us but just to prepare us to keep us alert so that we might even say you know Jesus told us this was going to happen he told us this was

going to happen and it reminds us that that he's he's in control we've all been on those airplanes that passed through times of turbulence and we don't like that pilot who doesn't say anything right drives my wife crazy why didn't he say anything you know we love the pilot who comes over the intercom and says okay for the next 10 or 15 minutes keep your seat belt buckled or we're going to pass through some tur ulence we we appreciate that I believe our Lord is talking to us saying us things are going to get turbulent

it's it's going to be bumpy but it's going to be okay A Good Pilot keeps his passengers informed and our good father does exactly the same hi Max I'm Gail I've been a Christian a long time and many times I'm reluctant to study prophecy and the end times do you have some suggestions on how I could approach that subject more comfortably I do I do and uh before I before I answer is it true that chip gains His Highest claim to fame is that you are his mother that's the truth boy is he a lucky

guy he's a lucky guy you're not alone in the uh concern that prophecy is is a frightening subject you're not alone at all um it's it's the it's the serengetti of theology it's wild it's Untamed it's full of symbols and numbers and lions and bears and something about the study of Prophecy has uh tended to attract kind of the big game Hunters you know when it comes to to scripture and uh they uh really love it I mean they really love it sometimes they love it too much it's almost like they can find a symbol

under every rock or a a prophecy interpretation behind every Bush it infatuates some people uh it intimidates many people it is challenging it is uh for that reason many people prefer to to stay in the well traveled world of the gospels or the teachings of Paul or the 23rd psalm and and and that's okay I do think somewhere in between there's a healthy balance I do uh I do think that we can have a great amount of respect for these challenging questions like we're discussing today and and and dive into them with an awareness that

nobody's got it all figured out right and high regard for scripture high regard highest regard for our heavenly father who truly has declared the end from the beginning and I also appreciate those who have dedicated many many years to understanding prophecy and they bring so much to bear to help us I believe what matters most is that we trust that Jesus has everything in his hands and though it and though we may get at times confused and well we will and well we should because we're looking into the future there's no reason for us to

uh panic in one of his earliest sermons The Apostle Peter said that Jesus must stay in Heaven until the right time comes when things will be made right again that's Acts 3 and verse 21 I love that phrase things will will be made right again are you weary with the way the world is well things will be made right again are you weary with the broken hearts with the uh disease with the depression with the discouragement well things will be made right again if nothing else let's land right there that there is coming a day

in which things will be made right again and we can have robust discussions between now then as to exactly what's going to happen we need to have robust discussions about this and so if a person's a bit infatuated if they're a little bit intimidated that's okay we do know that Christ is going to lead us to the point in which everything will be made right again hi Max I'm Daniel thanks so much for doing this I recently lost an uncle and it's really made me consider life after death he was a Believer um so where

do you think he is right now I love that question I love that question he's in Paradise he's in Paradise you know John Wesley Called Paradise the front porch of Heaven it's not quite our Eternal state but it's certainly not our current state uh your uncle and any believer when they take their final breath here they open their eyes there they are transported their spirit is trans ported immediately into the presence of Jesus Christ in the first order of business in Paradise is the healing of the Soul you might recall that story in Luke chapter

16 is such an interesting story that Jesus told about the rich man and Lazarus Lazarus was a beggar and uh his body was covered with sordes ulcerated open wounds and every day he was carried to the entryway to a mansion and there he was deposited I assume in hopes of collecting whatever scraps were thrown out of the rich man's kitchen could the man be more destitute uh in our modern day parlance he would be a homeless person you know no place to sleep I wonder how many times he heard phrases like that guy needs to

get a job or what a waste of life life he he had physical wounds but even more profound he had emotional wounds and then in one moment to the next the Destinies of the two men are reversed uh the rich man goes to Hades and Lazarus goes to paradise and the scripture says that uh Angels Came and carried him to the bosom of Abraham which is a picture pict of a place of Total Comfort Abraham is the second most famous Jewish man to ever live only behind Jesus Christ and here you have a man who

was destitute who had nothing then all of a sudden he has everything and he is held in the arms of Abraham and they're in full view of all the people in Paradise he receives healing he receives healing Paradise is that holding tank that place where we all go if we die before the Rapture where our Spirits await that moment of the Rapture perhaps you're acquainted with the words of the Apostle Paul who said to be away from the body is to be at home with the Lord so he's referring to a time in which we

are away from our bodies but we are at home with the Lord did you know the Apostle Paul was given a peak into of paradise I was caught up into the third heaven 14 years ago whether I was in my body or out of my body I don't know only God knows yes only God knows whether I was in my body or outside of my body but I do know that I was caught up to paradise and I heard things so astounding that they cannot be expressed in words that no human being is allowed to

tell look at that language heard things so astounding he didn't have words for him it was so wonderful looking back years later he couldn't remember if he was in the body or out of the body he saw things that he wasn't even allowed to tell they were so wonderful so Daniel your uncle is experiencing this right now is't that beautiful good word yeah he's experiencing this right now you know I think it's interesting that when Jesus was on Earth he raised three people from the dead and I've often wondered why just three and then it

dawned on me maybe he couldn't get any more volunteers because what they're enjoying is so spectacular so beautiful now we don't have time right now to unpack it all but but keep in mind that uh the book of Hebrews talks about that great cloud of witnesses that great cloud of witnesses and the the writer of the book of Hebrews is envisioning kind of an Olympics and he sees a stadium full of witnesses and they're all cheering for us they're rooting for us they're encouraging us I think they're even praying for us you know Jesus Lives

to make intercession for the Saints the scripture says and when we go to paradise we'll be made like him now for that time we will not have our physical body we'll have some type of celestial body that will equip us and allow us to do whatever we need to do but we'll be surrounded by Saints we'll be surrounded by those who have gone before I believe we'll be the church militant in the sense that we'll be praying we'll be the church triumphant in the sense that we will be Victorious and I'm wondering as you're thinking

about this who might be cheering for you right now just think about it you know a grandpa a grandma uh maybe a Bible teacher maybe the person who baptized you maybe somebody from the second or third Century who's who did then what you're doing still they're cheering for you they're rooting for you they're calling for you to finish strong so I think Paradise is just a super exciting part of our human existence now when Rapture happens those in Paradise will be reunited with their physical bodies so we won't be just in spirits forever but until

then we will be and until then we will be worshiping Jesus hi Max I'm Sarah Katherine as a mom of young kids I care about and worry about their future the Rapture can sound scary and has sounded scary to me in the past can you make me feel more at ease with that I sure can how old are your kids seven six and two and a half woo you keep busy don't you I do I yeah you know those of us old enough to remember uh 911 uh remember where we were that day on that

Tuesday I had just arrived at my office at the church in San Antonio and um was about to begin I think I was studying that day and and at some point my assistant Karen hurried into the office and said you've got to see this and we ran down the hall and somebody had on a television had a television turned on and there we saw you know the planes C crashing into the towers and then the planes crashing into the Pentagon plane crashing in Pennsylvania the farmfield nobody knew what was what was happening and we and

we didn't know what to do uh but I knew what I wanted to do and so I hurried back to the office and I called my wife and I told her my plan she agreed and uh she went to one school and I went to the other and we got our kids uh ours were older then than yours are now um they were in middle school and Elementary School uh I went to the elementary school I just walked straight to Sarah's room and when the teacher saw me she put two and two together and she

saw Sarah and said uh Sarah your dad is here go with him and my wife was collecting the other two uh from their schools uh bottom line is we knew something crazy was a foot and we wanted them with us I realize that uh the teachings on the Rapture can stir anxiety in people actually I believe the Rapture should be seen through the lens of a loving savior who knows that something is about to happen and he wants to rescue his children he wants to take us to a safe place and he's coming for us

and he's not going to allow us to pass through that coming wrath apart from his protection the Rapture is mentioned uh several times in scripture uh most notably or most famously would be 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 uh verses 15-8 for this we say to you Paul writes by the word of the Lord that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord by no means will prede those who are asleep for the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet call of

God and the dead in Christ will rise first and then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them there's the phrase from which many of us draw the conclusion of the Rapture uh caught up together it's it's a Greek term harpazo which means sudden uh seizing it's kind of a snatching some have translated snatching uh caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air so we will always be with the Lord therefore Comfort one another with these words so really the the teaching of of the

of the sudden uh Vanishing of the church is in Ed to bring Comfort instead of anxiety it's a time in which what I did for my daughters God will do uh for his children from one moment to the next will be transported into the presence of Christ now at that point is when we will receive our glorified bodies Our perfected bodies I find such hope in this you know every time I see a little child in a wheelchair I think about the rapture every time I think about an elderly person who's losing their memory uh

or their capacity to process I think about the time they'll receive a glorified body and a perfected brain every time I I see somebody who is disadvantaged in any way imaginable I think I cannot wait for you to be raptured for you to be caught up for you to be brought into the presence of Christ um I believe this promise extends to every person who has ever placed their faith in Christ every person I believe this promise extends to every baby who passed into heaven before they exited the womb I believe this promise extends to

every person who is too young to make a decision for or against Christ I believe this invitation extends toward those who never had the mental capacity to make for whatever reason a decision for or against Christ this is the great in gathering and it will bring uh the church together and we will enter into Paradise in our glorified bodies and so I understand how it can be a bit frightening and I can understand also how it can appear so Fantastical uh so unbelievable you're you're expecting me Max to think that someday the world is going

to suddenly be V of millions maybe billions of people I get it but what if you'd have been around I don't know a few months prior to the Exodus and somebody said hey guess what God is going to perform Miracles with plagues and signs and can open the Red Sea Fire by Night Cloud by day you might say that's just too crazy or somebody might say you know just a year or two before the birth of Jesus did you know God's about to enter the world and the form of a human being be born and

place in a mang sometime we can look back on those Fantastical moments those those extraordinary interruptions Divine interruptions and we say okay he did that but somehow it's more difficult to look into the future and say that he's going to do it again what we do know is that our God is the god of divine interruptions and we do know that he loves his children so living with that excitement and that hope is a part of what the apostle was saying here so Comfort one another with those words Max I'd love your thoughts on the

tribulation do you think that Christians will endure the terrible things that are written in Revelation no I do not and I'll tell you why in just a second let's zoom out for a few moments just to make sure we're all together on the timeline so if somebody dies uh prior to the Rapture they go immediately into Paradise right at the Rapture those who are on the earth will be caught up together with Christ and while we are with Christ in our glorified Bodies In Paradise two wonderful things are going to happen number one we're going

to be rewarded by Christ what a moment that will be you will receive your well done everything you've done will be acknowledged we're not saved by what we do but we'll be rewarded according to what we do and at the end of that we'll take all our crowns we'll place them at the feet of Christ because there's only one person in heaven whose head is worthy of a crown and it's not yours and it's not mine then we'll be wedded to Christ we'll be United with him that's why the New Testament often calls the church

the bride of Christ we really will be the bride of Christ in a wedding unlike any that the world has ever seen while we are delighting in Paradise uh all hell break loose on Earth the word that is most commonly used for this very very dark era in history is called the tribulation um The Book of Daniel speaks about the tribulation the all of it discourse is a sermon by Jesus Matthew 24 and 25 uh and also in the gospels of Luke and Mark uh I believe that's speaking helping us understand what will happen in

the tribulation generation uh of course the Apostle John uh spoke much about what's going to happen in the tribulation it seems best to me to interpret the bulk of the Book of Revelation as a description of the tribulation the Apostle Paul talked about this seven-year period it's a period of of of great tragedy on Earth imagine however the condition of the world after the Rapture imagine the chaos uh the pandemonium uh when Millions maybe billions of hardworking taxpaying God-fearing churchgoing family loving people are suddenly extracted from the earth the world will tumble into turmoil and

at some point after the Rapture the world will fall into this this chaos into this time of unprecedented darkness and and confusion you do not want to be on earth during the tribulation uh the Apostle Paul gives a very succinct description of it in the book of second Thessalonians uh his language is helpful and his summary is concise and so I I find it to be to be really helpful let no one deceive you by any means for that day will not come unless the falling away comes first and the man of sin is revealed

the son of predition who opposes himself and sets himself up above all that is called God or that is worshiped and he sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God the Apostle Paul calls him the man of evil uh elsewhere in most other places he's called the Antichrist and soon into this time after the Rapture in which the world seems out of control a person will step up on the global stage and uh present himself as a peacemaker according to Daniel's prophecy he will negotiate a peace treaty that will

involve Israel and involve the enemies of Israel and then Midway through that 7-year period or Midway through that peace treaty he'll break it and he'll set himself up Paul says to be worshiped uh in the temple Jesus called this the abomination of desolation and Midway through this seven-year period he will demand to be worshiped and oddly and tragically and almost un inexplicably people will worship him I find this to be crazy how could people worship Him do they not look around and see that the common denominator of all those who are gone is that they

were Christians their skin tones were different their nationalities were different their their uh economic levels their jobs were diff everything was different but what they all had in common is that they had put faith in Christ you would hope hope wouldn't you that they would say Okay I want to go where they're gone so I'm going to believe in whom they believed but they won't because of the man of evil he will be deceptive he will be a proxy of the devil he will position himself in the temple to be worshiped and as Paul goes

on to say heaven will not restrain him the scripture goes on for the mystery of lawlessness is all already at work only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken away God currently keeps evil on a short leash but in the tribulation uh God will allow the people to feel the consequences of their Rebellion so the Antichrist having stepped in will offer some false narrative about what happened to all the people and the people will give him their worship instead of giving their worship to Jesus they will have witnessed History's Greatest Miracle

second only to the resurrection of Christ and yet their hearts will grow cold and they will give him their worship now it seems to be a time of of total bad news but there is some good news and of course the great news about that bad news is that that news doesn't have to be our news that we by placing Our Hope in Christ will be rescued uh Jesus has given us notice he has served notice that a time is coming Matthew 24 in verse 21 he says this is going to be trouble on a

scale Beyond which the world has seen or ever will see again so he separates this time period of seven years into a unique time again we will be in paradise and the Earth will be in Tribulation now why do I believe will be in Paradise I know a lot of discussion has taken place around this question will Christians endure the tribulation or will they be in Paradise during the tribulation I believe will be in paradise and I have two or three reasons one is simply when the Apostle Paul taught on this he said now Comfort

one another with these words if we were going to go through the tribulation I think he would have said warn one another with these words I don't find it very comforting to think that we're going to be on the earth during a time of tribulation that Jesus described unlike anything the world has seen also Jesus compared the uh Rapture and the tribulation to the days of Noah and the days of lot now when you think about it Noah saw the flood but he was not destroyed by the flood he was in the ark Before the

Flood came and lot was aware of the fire and brimstone but he didn't feel any fire or Brimstone he was delivered so I think we will be delivered from the coming wrath that we don't have to endure the coming wrath yet another reason to comfort one another with these words hey Max I'm Rusty yes sir thank you for teaching on this topic um can you tell us what else you know about the Antichrist and do you think he could be alive today yeah I I I think he could be alive today I believe that Satan

has a candidate for the Antichrist in every generation now think of about it Satan is not omniscient he's waiting on the Rapture but he doesn't know when the Rapture is going to take place so I believe he has a candidate available to step into this role in every generation now after the Rapture Satan will do with this candidate what Satan did with Judas remember on the night before the crucifixion of Christ the scripture says in in John's gospel that Satan entered Judas he just entered him he he he turned him he became the very presence

of the devil to fulfill the devil's role so I think that's what will happen at some point again we won't be here Believers won't be here but I do believe that every generation most likely has a candidate uh waiting in the wings once the Sheep are taken uh into pasture the wolf will appear at the gate hi Max I'm Barbara the Middle East is in the news a lot these days what part do you think Israel plays in the end times you can't study end times and not think about Israel can you in fact you

can't study the Bible and not think about Israel remember the great promise that God gave to Abraham that through him through his seed the whole world would be blessed and he promised certain soil or a land and for Abraham so will Israel have a role to play in the last of the last days and I think the answer is decidedly yes yes after the church is raptured after the Believers have vanished I believe that there is a place that Israel will have in a role that they will play in what could be the greatest Revival

and going to change that what will be the greatest Revival since the history of the world Revelation chapter 7 has that mysterious reference to 144,000 Jews remember that 144,000 Jews 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel and they are sealed by Christ sealed by Christ that is to say they are protected by Christ they cannot be harmed by the Antichrist even though the world is in turmoil there will be 144,000 Jews 12,000 from each tribe of Israel and they will go forth and the next passage still in Revelation chapter 7 talks about a

number of people too many to count from every tribe every language Every Nation too many to count and they're praising Christ they're praising Christ and so the implication is these 144,000 evangelists these Jewish evangelists have gone out and they have spread the good news about what happened to the missing people they've spread the good news about the return of Christ and a number too great to count has responded I always chuckle when I read that line because I entered the ministry in 1978 in seminary I came out of Seminary went right into the ministry and

one thing they teach preachers is how to count right we count attendance we count baptisms we count pregnant women twice we count everything and there's going to come a day in which a Revival is so great that nobody could count nobody could count so while the tribulation is full of bad news there is a tital wave of good news and there will be many Souls saved during that time too many to count Max would you describe the New Jerusalem and does Jesus really have a thousand year right we can we can tackle both of those

those are great questions great questions yeah the Apostle John really helps us uh stretch our imagination when it comes to envisioning our Eternal state which is the new jur Jerusalem he talks about the New Jerusalem being 1,400 miles in a cube wide long and high can you imagine if my math is right and if Jesus chooses to to uh use floors or stories like we do in buildings today that's 600,000 stories plenty of room for every human being who has ever lived ample space there's space for everybody and there's Grace for everybody the great grace

of Christ is what will welcome us into the uh Eternal home our New Jerusalem one of the things that I came across as I was studying i' never dawned on me never dawned on me you know how we talk about the Pearly Gates well all the other references are to stones but this is a reference to The Pearl and pearls are born out of pain aren't they the oyster reacts to that foreign substance whether it be a speck of sand or whatever by creating a pearl it's a beautiful illustration so for all eternity as we

walk in and out of the New Jerusalem we'll think about the pain of Christ how this beautiful existence was born out of his pain now your other question about the Thousand-Year reign of Christ uh on the timeline the Thousand-Year reign of Christ or the Millennium is positioned prior to when we enter the New Jerusalem so we have the rapture we have the tribulation and then we return with Christ from Paradise to enjoy a thousand years on Earth with Christ you know there's a there's a song I I used to hum it all the time I've

got a one-way ticket to Heaven that's a great line I've got a one-way ticket to heaven the only problem is it's not right we all have a a round trip ticket we're going to go to heaven either at the Rapture or prior to the Rapture we'll be with Christ while the Earth is enduring the tribulation we'll be wetted to Christ we'll be rewarded by Christ and then we will return with Christ this is all in Revelation 19 we will return with Christ when he returns as the Conquering King and then he will set up that

Thousand-Year Reign not far from where I live in San Antonio Texas is a town called Utopia Texas and I went there once just curious how did you get the name Utopia I kept asking people where' you get the name Utopia nobody really knew the answer that made the most sense was one person said uh the postmaster did this in the late 1800s trying to convince people to move to South Texas and I love Utopia it's a beautiful little town but Utopia is not utopian you know I don't mean any disrespect but some of the streets

could use some repair there were some trees uh bearing blight uh we were in a drought and the sabinol river was struggling you know it's it's not Utopia but we all Aspire don't we we long for Utopia a perfect place a perfect Paradise a place in which Justice Reigns that's what the Thousand-Year reign will be I do not believe we will know Utopia prior to the Thousand-Year Reign I mean we can write the letters on a sign and call a city Utopia but that doesn't make it Utopia and there are two or three reasons we

won't number one Christ is not enthroned now he is enthroned in your hearts and Minds anybody who calls upon Christ he becomes our King but he's not enthroned over all the societies the fact is many people don't want anything to do with him and until Christ is crowned as king over everybody and we all willingly acknowledge that you we won't know Utopia also Satan is on the prow uh Satan is not just the presence of evil he is the person of evil and he is on the prow and then thirdly uh rulers are unrighteous our

rulers are not perfect just like we're not perfect and some of them are downright evil in different parts of the world so for those three reasons we won't know Utopia but for those three reasons the Thousand your reign will be a Utopia because Christ will be enthroned Satan will be bound Hallelujah and righteous rulers will oversee the Earth that's us we will return with Christ to Reign and rule on the earth I think to really get a picture of the Millennium or the Thousand-Year reign of Christ we go back to the beginning to Paradise uh

God said he declares the end from the beginning he says that in the book of Isaiah and so if you want to understand the end you go back to the beginning and in the beginning Adam and Eve were created by God as perfect people to rule in a perfect Paradise they oversaw creation Now they didn't really keep their end of the bargain but God is keeping his end of the bargain we may change our minds when plans don't go the way we want but God doesn't he's already declared the end from the beginning and it

seems to me that part of the conclusion of this history is a 10 centuries A Thousand Years in which we will reign and Rule with Christ in a perfect place God will have his garden he will reign with his children in a perfect place and I tell you what I'm super excit I'm getting pumped about that that's going to be pretty amazing Revelation talks about the Book of Life what what is The Book of Life who's in it can someone be remove from it yeah so the Book of Life uh and the Book of Deeds

uh reference to these to this book and this set of books is found uh also in Revelation chap 20 but after the teaching on the Millennium this book and these sets of books are referred to in What's called the Great White Throne judgment uh Believers won't be there we won't be there only unbelievers will be there and uh the scripture says that if a person's name was not written in the Book of Life they will be discarded they will be Cast Away and that's where the teaching of hell is not just uh doesn't begin there

but that's where it's most dramatic and most prominent I find that teaching in Revelation 20 of the great white Throne judgment some of the most disturbing teaching in all of scripture because there those who rejected Jesus will be judged according to their deeds now our Deeds are recorded as well but because of Jesus Christ because there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus Jesus died for our deeds and they were forgiven consequently our names were written with ink not with pencil but with ink in The Book of Life and so I believe

that our names are written in the Book of Life and the Great White throne judgment is a caution a severe sobering caution to those who are rejecting Jesus spend a lifetime telling God to leave you alone and in the end he will do just that Max the word of God tells us that we're Eternal beings that's hard to comprehend can you tell us what heaven will be like and will we know our friends and family there I think one reason the idea of being Eternal beings it's so hard for us to comprehend is that we

tend to filter our Eternal State through our Earthly state right uh we tend to apply uh Earthly physics to heaven and our little puny brains just aren't big enough to comprehend it I don't think that should intimidate us I think that should excite us uh your very best day on Earth won't qualify as a Very Bad Day in heaven that's just how wonderful it's going to be and yes I do believe we will recognize one another in heaven I believe we'll recognize one another in Paradise you know when Moses and Elijah descended to the Mount

of transfiguration they were recognizable how much more so will we be recognizable when we're in our glorified bodies and perfected bodies so we will we will know one another and there's so much that can be said about that Eternal State that's going to be wonderful but to me what makes it especially exciting is that phrase used by John in the Book of Revelation there will be no more curse there will be no more curse just think of all the pain and heartache that the curse has brought into the world can you imagine how wonderful this

world will be with no more curse upon it no more sin no more shame no more lying no more dishonesty no more regrets no more guilt no more fear no more anxiety the things that break our hearts now will not be there to break our hearts then just a couple of paragraphs straight from the book okay can you imagine God in his Splendor rising to declare over this weary world and her wounded inhabitants behold I make all things new I reclaim and I redeem I restore the years that the locusts and the worms have eaten

I give a new the days that you have spent leaning on crutches and slumping in your wheelchair I reissue the energy cancer took and the joy depression stole the songs your deaf ears could not hear the snow covered Alps your blind eyes could not see the Mysteries your feeble mind could not grasp they are now yours to enjoy desperat plundered your peace the arm of Justice fell short in your life Hunger gnawed at your belly fear hounded your nights racism ruined your future War ravaged your world no more no more no more tears no more

sorrow no No More Death I restore the good you wasted on the altar of folly the hope you sold at the brothel of lust and I bring to you love love you have pursued in the Forbidden arms Pathways and Ventures this time a love that will never pass the love to which all other loves hint behold I make all things new can you imagine I can't either but what Joy is found in the attempt hey Max as as a pastor I see and hear a lot of fear and confusion about the end times so why

do you think it's important for us to preach and teach on this topic I hear the same and I do think for that very reason it's important to preach and teach on it to to bring Clarity and to help people perhaps uh what happened to me recently has happened to you probably more than once but I got stuck on a Tarmac at a major airport uh late at night trying to get back to Texas we were in Chicago A storm blew in and we all got stuck there on the tarmac in the airplane right in

the airplane all the passengers were cred and that that's okay for five minutes but ours turned into four hours 4 hours it was horrible and you can imagine uh um the anxiety inside the plane I mean they were passing out the drinks and they were trying to calm people down uh in this case the the pilot did not do a good job communicating what we needed was for him to say okay here's where we are here's what's happened yeah there is lightning out there but we're fine you know we needed to hear his voice it

seems to me that the whole world is kind of stuck on the tarmac we're trapped and we see it stormy outside we're getting on each other's nerves we break out in arguments and their stress it's just everywhere and we read this in statistics don't we uh one out of eight uh young people have seriously considered suicide the suicide rate is the highest it's been since World War II it's it's these tragic statistics and I can't help but think how much it would help if people uh could get excited about our Eternal existence how wonderful it's

going to be yes it's tough right now yeah it's horrible it's a challenge it's an uphill battle but the Apostle Paul told us that these brief and momentary struggles are not worth comparing with the glory that outweighs them all so yeah I'm with you Rusty I think we need to be teaching and explaining and helping people to get excited about the life to come thank you so we all have friends and family that that that don't believe um how and in light of all this incredible stuff you've told us share a way that we can

lovingly um share Jesus in the end times what a good question what a good question because uh the nature of of prophetic scriptures is a bit challenging right and so how how do you engage in a conversation on this I would start in the beginning with the Garden of Eden I I I would think that most people have heard that story whether they agree with it or not uh they've heard it and say this you you know nobody has a greater vision for you than God does nobody does his dream for you is that you

Reign and Rule with him forever in a perfect forever what an Vision you know in this day and age in which so many people battle their self-image uh this day and age in which so many people feel insecure and battle insecurities in which we you know try to buy tight pants or baggy pants or get a tattoo or drive a fast car anything you know to make us feel significant more important I can't think of anything that does that more quickly and more profoundly than this idea that God made me he loves me and he

has a destination for me that's out of this world and I will reign and Rule with him forever well that's something to get a person person person excited something that that awakens people to to what God has planned so I'm I might start right there start with the Garden of Eden story hi Max I'd love to know that during your research of this book did anything surprise you or change your mind about anything I didn't think I could get more excited about heaven but I did and I am I I don't know if I'm excited

to die but I'm not afraid of dying I'm not held at all in slavery by fear of death I'm I'm just so I wake up at least two or three days a week I wake up in my first thought is maybe today you know maybe today I think it's GNA be amazing and I want so many people I want everybody to have that excitement what if everybody in the whole world was excited about what's going to come I think one reason we're also at each other's throats is because we don't know what's going to come

and so I'm I'm genuinely excited you know when I was um a I think 8-year-old my dad took my brother uh my mother and me to Six Flags Over Texas now that's a cool place to go but if you're from where I'm from it's a really cool place to go I grew up in a town that had two stop lights and the big idea of a big night was Dairy Queen and that's it so for us to be loaded in the car and driven you know 6 hours to to six Flags was a dream come

true and I remember riding in a trolley next to my dad and turning to him saying Dad this is the greatest this the greatest thing ever and he said max I'm glad but this is still the parking lot I thought the trolley you know parking lot trolley was the big ride you could have taken me up to the gate and taken me home and I still would have been excited good thing I had a father to tell me that the best part is on the other side and that's what we have we have a heavenly

father and his message from beginning to end of the Bible even the Holy Spirit as he works in our hearts today is telling us that the greatest part of our life is the life that's on the other side so there's many different opinions about end of Age and what happens next so my question to you is is there something that we all can agree on yeah yeah and boy you are spoton there are many opinions right there are many opinions in fact I don't know if you know this or not but in heaven there's a

cafe and it's called the PW poet Cafe PW P OE T PW poet preachers who preached on end times and we're all going to sit in there and we're going to have a good laugh you know where we missed it how we tried how we fell short and then at a certain point the master teacher himself Jesus is going to step in and I pray and I know we will we'll hear him say Well done because the fact is we're all looking into the future and we're trying to determine what challenging scriptures make but where

we all agree is the visible return of Jesus Christ we all agree on the bodily resurrection of the dead and we all agree on the final Judgment of all people uh these foundational truths really form the foundation of Fellowship for all Christians and we can have honest and heartfelt and yes even robust conversations until we get home uh but between now and then we can stand on that on those three truths and find fellowship and reason to worship and explore and get excited together so max as we wait and we're standing in that Unity what

what should we doing as Christians well I think God wants us to Be watchful I believe he wants us to be hopeful I believe he wants us to be standing on tiptoe I believe he wants us to take the promises of heaven and use them to counterbalance the pain that we experience on Earth so let's be prayerful Let's Be watchful and let's be hopeful here's an acrostic that hopeful will help you it is the word hope first of all we ask God for help remember God is for you God is for you the thought that

he is against you that comes from the very pit of Hell God is for you you don't have any fan any Advocate any cheerleader greater than God turn to him for help and ask him to give you optimism to get youc excited about the future there's nothing that's going to happen on Earth that will not make sense in heaven and then thirdly prayer just bring all your concerns to him every single one every bit of anxiety or dread or trepidation and then lastly eternal life he wants you with him forever you know as we wrap

this up I I can't thank you enough for giving me your time you've asked wonderful questions and your questions reflect honest sincere and seeking Hearts like you I'm I'm genuinely uh excited about what is going to come next and I just encourage all of us to do all we can do to build up one another more and more as we see the day approaching I hope this book what happens next uh is an encouragement to help people think more about end times I think the more we think about heaven the more excited we get in

fact I often say a day without thinking about heaven is a day poorly used so please remember the next time that you wonder about what happens next it's all about Hope and it's all about [Music] him it is my prayer that this conversation and this book will provide you some perspective and peace regarding God's beautiful plan to redeem his Earth and his people our God always keeps his promises and he will make all things new when my daughters were toddlers we had a sophisticated bedtime routine the girls knew how to extend good nighttime so they

wouldn't have to go to sleep be funny daddy they' say and I would comply I'd bump my nose on the door trip and fall on the floor and that laugh and then they'd say be goofy Daddy and I'd comply with the clown face and silly Expressions they'd laugh again but they wouldn't let me leave without responding to one final request be strong Daddy and I'd Flex my muscles I'd Stand Tall like a Grizzly and I'd Chase all the Shadows away I like to think that the sight of a strong daddy helped them settle down and

sleep certainly helps us right we have a strong father father strong enough to make a million galaxies yet near enough to chase away every shadow of the night that is God's message to you he has a place for you space for you and Grace for you lift your eyes and set your heart on your heavenly home it's the one that will last thank you for joining me [Music]