Joe Rogan Experience #2279 - Ky Dickens

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day very nice to meet you nice to meet you as well I really loved your your series um the the telepathy tapes it's I had long suspected that there was some sort of a way to prove that there's something going on that it there's no way that that would be a thing for so long that people would talk about certain moments where people could read people's minds or certain moments where there was something that was being exchanged

that wasn't verbal it wasn't facial expressions it wasn't body language there was something going on yeah and the telepathy tapes excuse me the telepathy tapes essentially um proved it h what has been has there been push back about this like I know there's a lot of like hardcore Skeptics that never want to believe yeah um I think anytime you're pushing the status quo there's going to be push back of course you know but I think the overwhelming uh amount of emails that we've gotten from families and others that have a non-speaking child have been you

know so excited that this news is finally out there same thing with teachers that that have been witnessing like you said for witnessing this in classrooms and in their homes for decades you know and when facilitated communication first came to America it was the 90s and what does that mean facilitated communication okay maybe we should back up like the very beginning I mean so I wonder okay so what the podcast is about are non-speaking individuals who tend to have a praxia which is a mindbody disconnect and those individuals cannot speak with you know using their

voice um speaking is a fine motor skill whereas pointing to letters is a gross motor skill so spelling to communicate is how many of these individuals communicate right and when the first um and well and with that's in mind I just want to say one quick thing that often people historically have looked at people with a praxia or non-speakers and they think that because they can't speak they can't think that they're not in there they don't presume competence and none of that is true these individuals have a hard time controlling their body right and so

if you can't control your body uh people make all sorts of assumptions you know and and that's been really difficult and so I think that the subjects in this project who are non-speakers with autism have been up against all sorts of different battles from people not presuming they're competent from people doubting their way of communication through through spelling to communicate and then of course it comes out in many cases that these individuals can read minds have a plethora of other for lack of better words spiritual gifts and then the parents and teach teachers often aren't

believed about that either so it's like there's stigma Every Which Way right that and the podcast is kind of a collision of all these stigmas and and really trying to break down those stigmas and be like here's the truth these people are in there spelling is a valid form of communication and yes many of them say they have spiritual gifts which I think we can pretty much validate at this point when you say spiritual gifts what do you mean by that yeah so when I first stumbled into this um which we can talk about later

if you want when I first kind of stumbled into this I thought this was just about telepathy right and that there were these individuals and their parents and teachers were claiming they could read mins and as I start meeting more and more and more of these families and again like I said teachers it's not limited to just families um one thing that they started telling me was telepathy the tip of the iceberg and I didn't know what that meant you know what do you mean telepathy Iceberg and and it's true because I think whether or

not it's ability to see disease or illness in someone and be able to diagnose it before this person knows that there's something wrong reading an aura and you know saying that they can see a color around not just animals and humans but plants um uh being able to speak multiple languages even though you haven't been taught them or playing instruments and knowing music or being able to access almost any song and having perfect pitch um being able to visit people in dreams um uh and then you mean I think some of the more just like

mind-altering shocking things for me whereas how many non-speaking individuals have said that that they are able to speak with people from the other side and yeah so so it didn't just start with telepathy or end with telepathy it's a plethora of things so do you think that this is an emerging aspect of human consciousness or do you think perhaps this is something maybe we had before we were verbal that we've lost but that lays dormant like that we don't need it so like a muscle it atrophies yeah I think that's exactly right I mean I

think we all have these abilities I think this is all part of us and in the telepathy tapes in episode five in particular we get into animal communication through telepathy uh and a story of elephants that knew when someone who was like in charge of their Big Game Preserve had died and they'd walk days to his house and did kind stay there for grieving and then would come back every year on the day of his death I mean just unbelievably beautiful stuff rert sheldrake has talked um at has written at length a brilliant Cambridge biologist

about uh dogs experiments he's done that kind of show the dogs know when their owners are coming home and sometimes cats so so this seems to be part and parcel of the Animal Kingdom right and many of us have had that experience of phone telepathy where oh I was just thinking of someone and they call people like to dismiss that as being just coincidence but I just why do people want to dismiss everything like that's the problem it's like I think I think their the real fear is being fool that's the fear which is why

why the problem with any sort of telepathy or any sort of psychic ability the problem is there's so many charlatans and so many people get duped yeah and it's really common I mean it's it's so common it's it's everywhere you you see these psychic palm reading signs everywhere you go and because of that it's in the realm forever of nonsense and if you believe in nonsense you're not a person to be taken seriously so if you're a scientist and you're studying human neurochemistry and you're studying Neuroscience there's no way you're you're going to support this

unless it's just beating you over the head with overwhelming evidence and then perhaps you say maybe there's something here I think that's changing actually and and one of the things that we look at in the telepathy tapes in episode six which we call our Science episode is this idea of materialism which I'm sure you've heard of you know this idea that at least for the past few hundred years that that the reigning philosophy around how we interpret the world is is it's only true if we can measure it and observe it right and and that

makes you seem foolish if you believe in something that can't be measured or observed like a sci phenomenon like telepathy or precognition or or dreams being able to communicate with someone or any of that stuff would be thrown out as being silly and I think there's been a massive effort to make that true right that that if you believe this or you're a scientist and you want to publish this we're going to um dismiss you or ridicule you just for even daring to ask that question research about this type of stuff has been dismissed because

it's materialist you know scientists who for a long time run run the journals sure but but there is something interesting here which is that Consciousness we don't know where it comes from you know and so what you know the brilliant scientist Dean Raiden talks about in the telepathy tapes is that if you think of materialism as a pyramid right and the base of the pyramid and all the things that have built up our world which biology and physics and chemistry and all those things those have rules and properties and we shouldn't throw those out those

are pretty much true but currently at the top of the pyramid is consciousness and we can't explain where that comes from and why it's there but if you just take Consciousness from the top and put it on the bottom so that Consciousness is the basis of of all reality right that Consciousness is fundamental that all of everything is the is the product of our thoughts first then then we can account for all this stuff then we can account for precognition or telepathy and it's not that big of a change it's just flipping kind of the

order of the pyramid and I think that makes a lot of sense and so there's been a lot of scientists who have have looked into near-death experience research who've looked into the research around telepathy who've looked into the research around um precognition and said we can't dismiss this this is happening there's a lot of anecdotal evidence here there's a lot of things that add up so we're going to start the Academy of postmaterialist Sciences where we will take this stuff seriously and we will look at the research and we will advance science and and I

tend to believe that there needs to be a bit of there needs to be quite a few funerals but I think in like 50 to 100 years um the scientists that were were gripping on to the materialist Paradigm yeah I really believe that that's going to be kind of like the flat earthers in the future like I think the scientists doing this are on the right side of History because you can't you have to account for it right you know who's scoring big in the NBA this year you are with all new ways to get

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a lot of people that think that the universe is formed through Consciousness yeah which this is Thomas Campbell's take on things I don't know familiar with yeah was a Mindbender when I had him in here I was like wait what are you saying exactly like you have to like listen to it three or four times then you have to I told him listen let's stop here we'll do it again because I'm G to have to absorb this yeah but the concept is that essentially the universe is formulated through Consciousness in some way and that we

we're interacting with it through Consciousness yeah and that it's not as real as we want to believe it is yeah I mean and even if you just basic it down right like this room what came first the room or the thought of the room everything in this room it was a thought first right everything right everything everything on our planet was a thought first well everything that we Planet itself right yeah I've always said that that I think that ideas might be a life form that they get into people's heads and then people manufacture physical

objects out of these ideas whether it's art or and I think that's one of the reasons why we like art so much yeah I mean that's how this whole podcast started I think for me sure you know I was reading that book big magic I don't know if you've read that book it's wonderful um well I guess I should back you know I was doing a lot of documentary work that was on social issues right that was all like fixing broken things in our great country and um then I had a few deaths in my

own life and I thought my gosh whatever I do next I want to fix what's broken in humans because I was in a complete Topsy Turvy thing of how how do these great people that are heroes you know a police officer going in and saving someone my other friend was taking care of the UN housed in Kansas City and how do they die so I was going through my own just like kind of grief process and thinking whatever I do next I don't want to look anymore which I was humbled to do that work of

Broken Social systems I want to fix what's broken in humanity and figure out that what that is but anyway I was reading big magic and this is a book about how um ideas by Elizabeth Gilbert who how ideas are outside of us the creative process is comes to you and there you know it's wonderful in the book they talk about songwriters who hoter song and if you don't grab it you'll hear that same song on the radio or or just how a a story will come to you fully formed and uh one of the kind

of topics that comes up in that book too is you don't ask the creative Whatever It Is God Muse The Ether right to to um to give this to you you tell it I'm going to do this with you it's going to be great and so I I said that out loud I was reading this book book I was in this moment of just major shift in my life and I said whatever I do next I want to solve the question of where we're going and why we're here and what it all means and do

we have a Consciousness and does it survive and then um and and no I actually didn't ask it I said I'm yeah I said I'm going to do this next and I didn't know what it was going to look like but then started reading you know all the things I could on Consciousness tree communication and about near-death experiences and Ian Stevenson's work and all sorts of things and then I heard a podcast with Dr Diane Hennessy Powell who was a Harvard you know um John's Hopkins educated you know taught Harvard scientist who was saying that

non-speakers that she tested had demonstrated a remarkable ability for telepathy in Reading minds and that was like boom like lightning it just kind of hit like this is this was the thing and I really believe if something's intended for you it won't miss you you know um but I think that concept of big magic uh was a bit of that of asking telling the um the Muse you know to uh to to guide you yeah yeah to guide you towards something that can illuminate this issue so did you have a preconceived notion of telep telepathy

or spiritual gifts or anything before this no I mean I think like a lot of people like the idea of mediums and psychics it felt like people that are often trying to just make money off of people and really vulnerable situations and I've always believed certainly there's got to be people who have certain gifts like that you know but that the vast majority couldn't be trusted or you know I didn't think telepathy could be real that seems impossible it just seems impossible even things like plant communication felt impossible or um I mean I mean none

of that was something that was uh was like my worldview you know I was working on you know solving problems around paid family medical leave and making health insurance more affordable and accessible it was not my cup of tea really and so which was kind of great because as I tumbled into this world I mean I was really wide-eyed as like wait a second have I been wrong about everything and that's kind of where I ended up was like I had to go revisit everything I ever thought about the world cuz I started realizing our

entire Paradigm is wrong I mean or a lot of it is that was my experience so let's let's talk about what you saw first like what was the first first example where it was like an aha moment for you yeah so um after I heard the interview with Dr Diane honey Powell I you know I zoomed with her and then I asked if I could go see her and meet her and talk about this a bit you know because I thought this could be the next project and I just knew it was going to be

the next project right so one of the first things I had her do was I was like can you just tell me about some of the emails that come in from parents and I had to just kind of go through reading some emails from parents and it was one after the other like I didn't believe this and I didn't believe my wife I didn't believe my husband that this could be possible but we've tested it we've tested it people were sending tests and I thought okay whatever is going on here these parents don't know that

any other parents are going through this they think a singular Miracle is happening in their home that this child can read their thoughts and that this is where the story is that there's so many parents who haven't been listened to and so I really thought this was about parents at first and then discovered no there's been teachers writing about this for 30 years um uh capturing it videotaping this phenomenon going on and scared to come out about it and and I think same with the families right I mean what a weird thing to say these

this child can read my mind or this child seems to be able to do XYZ things that seem impossible and so you know my first thought was okay I need to see this is my own eyes and so I Dr Powell had just been reached out to by a family in Mexico who discovered that their 13-year-old daughter was inside they didn't think she was and she was able to communicate and the reason they discovered that was at during covid you know they they were in charge of homeschooling and started being like okay let's see what

you know and Bing she starts spelling she know awful lot and they I think they were shocked and pretty soon therea she said I can read your mind and they thought what and they would do tests what did I just draw and she'd say what they just drew you know what are we thinking and she would write it and so do they say what they see um or how they see it like if someone writes something down do they see the word or do they know it well I think that's a really good question and

you know we've done a few experiments that you know again I'm not a scientist like the experiments I was doing for the film I mean which is going to be now a film but the um podcast was kind of me just trying to understand like proof of concept what is going on here right and and I can only say what spellers have told me and there's been quite a few spellers who say I can see through someone's eyes or I can hear through their ears um and others who seem to have a merged Consciousness with

with someone that they're very close to whether it be a father or a teacher communication partner father or whatever um where um this like we did some experiments with one mom where we'd show an image to her her son who was sitting across the room would all a sudden start writing what the image was but what was so fascinating is sometimes the mom wouldn't even know what the image was so at one point she thought it was paint no no she thought there was a food fight it was ketchup and mustard and he wrote paint

so so at that point it's like she's not obviously sending a thought right he seems to be tapping in the second the images in her own mind so for us it was a big question of is this just your telepathy because few parents have told me no this is bigger than that it seems like a merging of consciousness of some sort yeah in a bizarre way if the mother doesn't know what it is and the child does that's strange yeah it's really fascinating and you know but I also one of the stories that I love

um um goes back so do so rert sheldrick the Cambridge biologist who's in this project he didn't believe in telepathy either I mean I think a lot of scientists right don't believe this stuff right away either and and he had a you know a senior Professor that he really looked up to sir Rudolph Peters and he was kned by Queen Elizabeth for being such a brilliant scientific mind right and this sir Rudolph Peters was in like the te- room at Cambridge one time and telling young Dr shelder young rert here that um that he just

heard of a blind boy that he tested who who obviously is blind and and and can't read an eye chart but if his mother is looking at it he could read it whoa and that's how Rupert sheldrick fell into this world and that boy was diagnosed with you know being blind but also at the time what they called you know severe mental retardation which no we don't call it that that's you know but but that's who knows what this young individual have if he had a praxia or or what was going on if he had

autism but he because autism and blindness like it's a huge impediment especially non-verbal autism and being blind like how do you learn anything so you would assume that there's something wrong with the child when really there's just a a lack of the ability to communicate yeah with I mean with non-speaking individuals with a praxia they are in there they're so smart it's just that Mind Body disconnect and not being able to you know what do they think causes that do they have have an understanding of what it is I you know I don't know that's

there's so many wonderful experts out there looking into this and and I don't know what causes araxia but I do know that there's a lot of supports to help individuals who have araxia to communicate and the world is just making it really difficult for these individuals have you ever seen this young blind boy that uses echo location and he can ride a skateboard and move around the how bizarre is that it it's cool I mean you know in some ways you think of like echolocation or or um being able to see through infrared is like

a six sense like a six that we don't a sense that we don't have right but it's like a sense some other creatures get around with so it's like what we're talking about here is almost like a seventh sense right it's something beyond that but I I just I there's something so beautiful about that right that if you if humans are so creative that we will find our way to get around the world and find our ways to communicate also when you're missing a sense your other senses are stronger this has always been a suspicion

I think that's been proven is that correct yeah that people are better at hearing things if they're blind or seeing things if they're deaf yeah yeah I think that is absolutely true and I think though as far as you know individuals with apraxia go again like it's Mind Body disconnect there's so many of the spellers I've met who don't know they had a body at first they can't feel their body you know they want heavy boots to know where their feet are or a heavy necklace to know where their chest is and and I think

not being in your body not knowing you have your body leaves you to live in this Consciousness space more right this world of thought where where we can't imagine that we're so bound to our body we have these dis dissociative boundaries where it's like you're Joe and I'm K and yeah um so I think that's that's what heightens a lot of this for them is just not you know feeling as grounded into their bodies in the wackiest of conspiracy theories when people talk about the government's connection to alien intelligence that they recruit these non-verbal autistic

kids because the they're the ones who can communicate with aliens I don't believe that no I don't believe that either no the wackiest of conspiracy theories but the idea being that if you were the government you would look for someone who is extraordinary in in that they they're more open to this ability to interact than we would be they do not have the burden of feeling foolish they don't have the the burden of societal constraints that we've kind of culturally put on the idea of alien life being able to communicate with them yeah I mean

this is I have received a question around you know could the government utilize the these individuals you that discussing the first thing you think about people think someone's extraordinary could the Govern like the X-Men right like how how will the government utilize this and manipulate it for their own gain that's what everybody worries yeah and it's a fair worry I mean it is a fair worry and you know like we try to be very protective of of the families and make sure that they're safe and that they're only out there if they want to be

out there and you know that type of thing but and even if they know what that means that's the problem you say you want to be out there do you know what that means right exactly but I will say I mean every non-speaking individual with these gifts that I've ever met won't use it for bad or nefarious means they're they're interested in love they're interest in in connection right yeah not of course yeah well the problem is if they were used and didn't know what they were doing you know they would know they'll know they

can read your thoughts and they they know what's up they know what's up better than anyone I think you know interesting um when you uh first started was there stages of acceptance for you with these ideas yeah what was the first stage I mean the first stage was I think uh I never I never had the barrier of whether or not they're in there you know I worked I helped start the inclusion program in my high school and I've worked and cared for people you know with varying abilities my whole life so that I knew

they were in there but I think the next thing for me was the telepathy and and and when you see it and when you talk to enough parents who are saying all you need to do is go see it it's not like it's not like does it show up or like will it appear it's like for the parents and teachers who report this is happening if you go work with a speller you just see it so that was pretty phenomenal and then the first person we saw um being able to to do it was this

girl Mia and she was still in the early stages of learning to spell to communicate so she was being touched it often helps like first with the wrist and then here and then here and then on the head and then off and then there's no touch at all right it's just like learning that body and learning those supports to control your motor so um so Dr Powell was like ah no scientists will take this cuz she was being touched and I think a lot of us in the room like wait people think she's her mom

sending Morse code like they're they plan I mean of course that's ridiculous it really is but then the next individual could do it across the room and wasn't being touched and you know anyone that we saw thereafter wasn't being touched so that was pretty remarkable and I don't think TCH actually hasn't I think telepathy is really cool if you're being touched you know but um so it's the telepathy was the first one and then I think the second one was uh the language stuff and a lot of parents saying you know we have no idea

how but she's speaking Portuguese and no one in a house PS Portuguese or people talking about you and this has been documented yeah yeah yes yes yes yes yeah it's quite common actually um and these are non-verbal kids non-speakers yeah non-speakers so what is the difference between non-verbal non-speakers well I think non-verbal is this idea right like that you're um not able to make uh like language you know in a way where like speaking is just like they they can be verbal they can communicate they just can't speak it okay just can't speak it without

the supports of a communication partner like you know that is um uh they the goal is to type independently do they make noises yeah I mean I think especially with the praxia there's often a lack of body control um voice control so so there is like a a beautiful soundtrack that I've come to love of non-speakers that will often be like a um some grunting or or just lack of body control and actually I think if someone sees a non-speaker out in public one of the most loving things you can say is like I know

you can't control your body I know that I know that's not you you know what I mean because the person in there might want to be doing XYZ but just cannot control their body and imagine how frustrating that would be yeah um so these people they're they're nonverbal and when you say that they can speak Portuguese they they understand Portuguese they do they write it like how how does this manifest itself yeah so I mean there's one young girl I'm thinking of in particular but there's this again this has come up now with I don't

know 15 non-speakers that I've met um but the girl I'm thinking of uh her you know she will work during the day with a pair of professional and a um spelling coach you know there's a you know the education system there might be two or three people in a room and three people who were in the room this day and she started spelling in a language and they didn't know what it is so they looked it up and it was Portuguese and then she started spelling in Spanish and they were like this is wild and

she also said she knew hieroglyphics and what yeah and then they were like how do we test this because if we know the answer she'll read our mind and know so they had to just which is wild already like you have to worry about this kid reading your mind it might be [ __ ] so they had to like look up pictures of hieroglyphics and not know what the pictures were representing to be like okay here's the feather I mean I don't know what whatever on top of a stone or whatever the picture was of

and here's this picture and this picture and then she identified them and then they looked them up and they were right wow all of them 100% accurate yeah wow yeah so and I'm not saying of course not what the hell is going on there not every um what is that well I mean like that is that's beyond bizarre did you give her C for I mean I wasn't there for this I I you know her mom reported it to me and it has the email that she received from the staff and so you know the

staff is just like this is what happened today and you know because these individuals are spelling to communicate it can take a lot of time it could take a lot of work and effort to get those that information out so anything thing that comes out usually uh I mean a good spelling coach will ask the child first right is it okay if I share this with your parents or is this private between us or whatever but if they say it's okay to share they will write a letter home and this is what happened and and

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while they work on your taxes you can get realtime updates on their progress and get the most money back all while you go about your day which means less stress for you and the best possible outcome for your return it's 2025 it's time to file like it now this is taxes into it Turbo Tax get an expert now at turbotax.com in our session your child reads hieroglyphics what the hell like what does that mean is that the akashic record like is this child like pulling from all the information that's in The Ether like what how

would you be able to read a dead language that I mean what percentage of the human population can read that without AI without assistance it's got to be tiny it's remarkable tiny tiny percentage I mean from a scientific perspective and this is one of the things that um there was a professor Bernie rlin who first I think came up with this idea and then I know Dr Powell kind of expanded on it which uh Bernie rimland first saw this kind of gift in non-speakers I think in the 70s I mean a while back and was

like ESP should be considered a savant skill and Dr Powell has talked about this as well so Savon skills right are studied or accepted by science this idea that like how do you know the language or math or this or that when you haven't been exposed to it or haven't been been you know um educated with even maybe the most simplest music skills but now you're playing a symphon right so Savant skills are is being able to really excel at something that you haven't been taught and Savant there's people who are born with the Savant

skills and also sometimes you can be accidental Savant so you get hit on the head and I read about a guy who got assaulted and all a sudden complex geometry yeah complex geometry and stuff like that so um so what's Wild is that the materialist scientific point of view accepts Savon skills we don't know where they come from we don't know why we don't know how people can know this stuff they've been taught but we accept them as these real big question marks as as it's real so what Bernie ribin said and later Dr Paul

was like ESP should be considered Savant skill these people know something and we don't know how they know it but they do they haven't been taught it they haven't been exposed to it and that could be thoughts it could be knowledge about the future it could be knowledge about language uh and and it's it's this is what the whole hope is about the telepathy tapes right is that people will start to put money behind this research because for so long research around this typee of stuff wouldn't be funded because it would be just dismissed it's

impossible it's impossible it's impossible and one of the moms in our in the telepathy tapes who you know I love so much her name is Manisha she talks about her son she goes ail is the data you want to look at the data you want the data like look at my son he's the data right and and some of these parents are are wanting desperate for answers you know it's not they're not in the question of if it's happening they're wondering how it's happening and I think I'm in that part too like when the people

that are just is possible is it possible I think for most of us in this world it's like yeah you're like 10 steps behind man like it's possible it's not a matter if it's it's why and that's my hope is that this can there's like a the the the chains will be like you know let off the scientists the these children that can read things are they typing it out like on an iPad are they writing it physically how do they do it usually um so there's different forms of spelling to communicate um often there's

like a a letter board right sometimes it's a stencil letter board that you poke a pencil through so you really know when you get that letter and it's really satisfying to like get get the po poke through sometimes there's like just a laminate board where you kind of point to a letter um some individuals are typing into a spelling kind of um app on an iPad or there's different spelling like can they type AAC devices yeah and then and then there's um some individuals who end up going to the Cy key you know the typical

keyboard that we all type with on a keyboard so so there's varying levels of ability in terms of using your body yeah using your body and and the thing I think why spelling has been so um you know it there's such a stigma on spelling and I feel so bad for individuals using spelling because they're in there and they are communicating but people have said oh but you need these support so these can't be your words right like like for a spelling partner let's say um you have to kind of learn to be a communication

partner you have to learn to um to really understand like the the Mind Body disconnect and what's going on with the non-speaker in front of you and sometimes their B hand getss Lost in Space so it's good to like pull the board away and like put it back in again or sometimes you have to cue them like go for it okay get that letter because that will help with their motor planning right so those supports are critical but people will look at those supports and say oh well that must mean they're not typing in independently

but to me that's as wild as saying oh you need reading glasses you can't read no that's a support to help you read you can still read if if you've reading classes and that's how I think of the communication there's still no influence on the words or letters being Cho chosen no no no and I think one of the things so but the the the stigma I think that really started for spelling was um facilitated communication actually this is like the first thing you asked we're com full circle so for a long time there was

just no hope of getting you know people who weren't verbal non-speakers out there just wasn't and then all of a sudden facilitated communication came along and it was developed I think in a in Australia or I think and but this was ideas of you you know put some pressure on someone's wrist so they can really feel where they're at in space right like they'll be able to to to spell and it was a miracle I mean it was all over the news this was great and some of the first parents that were using facilitated communication

started to report reporting there's telepathy involved and this was at Syracuse University in the '90s Syracuse knew about this and started kind of burying that information and and there was a lot of like kind of uh you'll be let go if you're teaching this and you're talking about this so there was kind of big cover up so this this was new this is not new that this was going on but then um there were some claims of you know sexual assault there's awful things that happened where what was being claimed um didn't happen and so

people started blaming facilitated communication oh well maybe they're pushing their hand or doing this or doing that and I think for a lot of people who train in facilitate communication you're using your hand to put pressure so the individual knows where the body is in space but you're not pushing their hand but there's probably are some cases where that had had happened well anyway so then it got kind of just stigmatized right it's pseudo Sciences it's not and then so spelling evolved into these forms where it was like no touch do not touch and so

many of those spelling groups now um are helping individuals and the big tenant of this is you cannot touch them and um and that's that's where Spelling's at now is that you learn to communicate and there's no touch involved but but I'm I'm one of these people that thinks like whatever the individual needs to help them communicate it's okay if if you need a little touch so you know your arm is right or sometimes it helps you go faster if there's a little push like I think go for it you know help these individuals get

out there right this touch is not guiding them toward specific letters this touch is just an affirmation just to help them to help them relax to help them connect yeah and it was really you know on set sometimes because every once in a while some parents like hold the board and hold it there for their child and we would use these um like dry erase you know markers on the screen to be like is the board moving and it wasn't you know it would be really interesting to get them in front of some scripts that

are very difficult to read that's why I brought up CI for um and Sumerian and maybe even that crazy voyich manuscript you you know what that is no the vich man vich manuscript is a book that is of an unknown language okay and it's highly detailed and they don't know what it is they don't know the language they don't know if it's a fraud look at this this is the vus man V manuscript um they don't know when it emerged they uh there's a lot of suspicion that someone uh created it and tried to pass

it off and sell it as uh an ancient language in a book but then some people disagree with that because they think that the way the words are constructed seems to be in some sort of a uniform way that it's not gibberish it's not nonsense but they do not know what what it says obviously I don't know jack [ __ ] about ancient languages so I'm not the right person to be determining who's correct and who's who wants it to be correct so they're saying that wow I have not never heard of that yeah what

is the current state of go uh yeah let's see what it says what whether they think it's real is there like an synopsis onz what people think is there's fax similes interesting me okay okay uh University of Bristol subsequently removed a reference to cheshire's claims from this website what is the the website uh chesar published its translation in the foldout illustration in 2023 he claims depicts a volcano theories uh that it places a manuscripts Creator near the island of volcano which was an active volcano during the 15th century however experts and medieval documents disputed the

interpretation vigorously approached for comment Lisa Fagan Davis gave this explanation as with most would be vich interpreters the logic of this proposal is circular and aspirational he starts with a theory about what a particular series of glyphs might mean usually because the words proximity to an image that he believes can interpret okay so they don't buy that this um interpretation of it is real but they they're pretty sure it's a language which is just [ __ ] insane scroll up a little higher is there any debunkings of it different people that have made uh interpretations

and they seem to no one really no one figures it out yeah there various H discussions yeah wow imagine if you can get that in front of a non-verbal kid and he's like oh I know what that is I mean it' be pretty wild it' be pretty wild yeah Jesus wrote this like oh he said he's coming back in August like whatever it is um I mean there just the fact that the child can read hieroglyphics is insane I I would love to see like form or Samaran in particular uh we had a uh an

ancient language scholar named Wes huon and he was explaining how a lot of these interpretations for of like the Sumerian text which is the oldest version of you know a lot of these like biblical stories in fact he was like I can't read it he goes I've I can I can read all these different languages but this one is so different than all the others and it doesn't have anything that's like it like a lot of these other languages can find similarities in the way they're structured the way the sentences are there's none of that

with surian it's like this is a wacky language he's like I can't read it and he was brilliant so when you talk to a guy like that who's humble about it you know but also like very well read yeah and he's like I I don't know what's going on what do give that to the kid so interesting yeah I mean it seems like there's a lot of opportunity to really get into that with these non-verbal kids if you find one that is there more than one that has this ability to do this I mean I

can only comment on the people I've met but I think of all the people that we're talking to a lot you know for the project and now the film yeah I mean it's definitely more than one I mean i' at least I know 15 or 20 who can um who seem to know various language they haven't been taught 15 or 20 mhm wow yeah and one of um one of the earlier um children the Dr Powell was studying this boy knew really kind of odd languages like Russian and Japanese and I think he was five

or six and could just speak in different languages and knew different languages it's absolutely remarkable wow yeah and is there a like even the most out there theory about what's going on um I I mean this is the thing right there hasn't been a lot of research around this phenomena and and I think um I can only go again off of what spellers have said I mean one thing is that they say that there's a neurology behind language right there the the current the most Baseline language is not with words words are these 3D objects

that we attach to these thoughts and feelings and that is the thing that they can understand which makes sense that would be what telepathy is right if you're not right using words um well that is our version of telepathy we make noise with our mouth and then you can read my mind yeah kind of kind of I mean in a clumsy way yeah but if you think of prayer right that's telepathy if people who come back from a near-death experience and they say they have these communications with someone you don't have a body that's telepathy

right like if if a medium is talking to some or getting messages from someone who's passed like that's telepathy so it seems like the Baseline to me like all of this has proven for me that that we have a soul or you know there's or there's at least if that word is triggering under someone that at least there's a conscious body there's a Consciousness in each of us that that doesn't need a body like and so I think the the language thing is like we've put words over this thing and that but the the telepathy

the Baseline is there no matter what and if you can understand the Baseline of what's being communicated the words don't matter does that make sense it does yeah it does it's it's hard to grasp but it makes sense are you aware of um the history of uh research in iasa uh I mean I know what it is but yeah like one of the more interesting uh aspects of it is when scientists first discovered it discovered its properties and they did experiments on it they wanted to call one of the ingredients telepathine um but due to

the rules of scientific nomenclature they realized that it had already been named harine so this harine is one of the ingredients it it's in one of the plants that's used to make this Brew but when the scientists explored this and started experimenting with it I it was quite somewhere in the 20th early 20th century they realized that they could read each other's minds and that they were communicating and that they were having a shared experience that seemed to be completely mental but independently they all verified the exact same thing and so that's one why they

wanted to name it telepathine which is a way more fun word than harine way more fun yeah but this idea that we need something to access this dormant part of what is human consciousness yeah and I think that type of stuff can really help right I mean people um I think what's cool is that a lot of the research on um you know psychedelics is kind of converging with this stuff right now you know around um telepathy and the non-speakers I think so a lot of people have had these experiences with on you know on

psilocybin or or on an iasa trip or whatever where where there's this realization that like we're way more mental there is a non-physical world that that is out there yeah there's something yeah and this is this work and Thomas Campbell's work and there's a bunch of people who are considering this now which I always wonder like if you get an an enormous number of people that change that have a shift in the way they view reality itself like what impact does that have on reality yeah I mean I think that's a big thing right and

and I keep thinking you asked about the push back around this and and what's interesting is it's not just from Skeptics who don't want to believe in telepathy and that the nonv non-visible world is real but also from from people in the spelling Community who don't want people to mention telepathy out of fear that it's going to foil their efforts to make this like standard practice in schools in fact some of the teachers and others who've been involved in our project have been getting letters um from the iasc like a spelling group saying don't talk

about telepathy or you're going to have your accreditation taken away why I don't understand why would that mess with spelling I think the fear is I think I think the fear is that if you um I don't I actually don't know I mean because most of the people I'm working with almost all of them every single one of the people I'm working with has sees this as happening in their homes and their classrooms and it's not just teachers and parents and ministers and rabbis and parapsychologists and speech pathologists and occupational therapists like these are all

the people reporting it right and for them I think the thing is truth is never harmful it might be difficult but it's not harmful and what this truth means is that we have to change our systems right of Education we have to change how we think about things and I think there is a deep fear of people having their darkest deepest thoughts exposed that's probably not comfortable for the government for people in control for people who are controlling money I think that's coming whether we like it or not yeah but um but why I think

this truth might be really uncomfortable for some but it's so important to get out there you can't accept and love someone as a whole being unless you can see and know all of them right and and and the only people I feel really in service to are the non-speakers who haven't had a voice and all the people loving and supporting them or who are saying this is real we want this out there and so the gatekeeping around this has been massive I mean yes from the science world but also from the spelling World why from

the spelling world that's what I don't understand like what what there's so many challenges of people saying oh because they're using these supports these words aren't their own and then I think there's this conflated idea like oh if they know they're capable of telepathy they'll think their thoughts aren't their own either and it's it's a weird idea because just because you're talking to me doesn't mean that I don't have my own thoughts or words right like I can read a book which thoughts are coming at me it doesn't mean I don't have my own thoughts

so you can hear thoughts and that doesn't mean you don't have your own I mean so it's like putting too much together that I I think is talking about telepathy is not going to foil spelling but some people believe that to be true and um that just doesn't make any sense to me yeah like why would any I don't understand why spelling would even get involved in this I don't know I mean like spelling is universally accepted as being important like well it's no this is the problem spelling is not there are so I just

talked to a parent the other day who said I've been trying to get a communication partner with my daughter in school so she can contribute and the school system will not AF like pay for that they're like nope you cannot have a spelling communication partner because is that just a funding issue well no there's a group called Asha the American speech language you know Association who accredits speech language Pathologists and they say that spelling is pseudo science and I don't know how communication could be called pseudo science what and so if you're a speech language

pathologist um and you want to teach spelling in schools that's considered like wait a minute why would they say I don't understand what is the argument that spelling is pseudo science this is such a controversy that it's just maddening I think again it's because of those supports like because because you might need a part because you need a partner um to spell it's considered oh well you're not spelling independently so spelling is pseudo science for nonverbal people or non-speakers I should say well it's not but but Asha is saying that which is making it and

they're only saying this because of the touch the ability to touch people while they're doing it or well most of these individuals aren't being touched I think that the problem is I mean the problem is that no one's presuming competence so so so this is why it was confusing you're saying spelling in regards to nonverbal people I'm sorry yeah okay spelling okay I should yes restate this so when so spelling is kind of the catchall phrase for for pointing to letters to communicate be it on a letter board or an iPad or even a keyboard

like what we're used to with a computer so they're going by this old concept that it's impossible to have any sort of psychic ability so if you're proving psychic ability through spelling this is obviously [ __ ] without any examination of it yeah I think that's a good that's a a good summary to what we were talking about before that they don't want to be foolish right um so this is a compounded issue but one thing that's kind of I thought this was fascinating is that any type of like alternative form of communication has gone

through immense battles to be validated like oh my gosh sign language and I think in the 1800s there was a conference in Milan where everyone's like we cannot teach sign language like this is people need to try to speak you know um sign language went through battles for I mean over 100 years to try to even get accepted as a real language and it wasn't until the 70s or 80s when that happened and then Braille Louis Braille who invented Braille the people at the school where he invented it was like you guys can't use this

we don't accept this and we don't believe you can read by touching dots and we don't believe you can type by poking holes that's impossible that seems nuts so when they did they would do these tests with Louie and other students to be like okay you write one word and you spell you know and you read it with your dots and they did and then they'd say it's fake they they planned it they pre-planned the wordss and it wasn't into multiple you know variations that finally Braille was accepted and now we're seeing the same thing

with spelling to communicate they need a communication partner just like to read you need glasses it doesn't mean they're not communicating on their own they just need someone to help support their motor control got it so you're just using the term spelling in a different way most people are C that's why I had want to clarify super confused yes it's so that seems like that's on them I mean if there's evidence that it works like they should be brought up and people should say like what you're doing is a disservice like a huge disservice for

for whatever reason for your own ego for your own well yeah I mean you think about it right Notions for now you know decades uh if you have a praxia and you're a non-speaker and you're considered you're not in there people will will treat them put them in school systems where they're trying to teach them to like be behaviors that are impossible if you can't control your body and then often teach them over and over colors and shapes and teach them like they're they're not getting it that they're not smart so they've been robbed of

their education they've been robbed of an entire livelihood so to admit that we've been wrong about this entire population and educating them wrong I mean that's a lot of Reckoning that's a lot of wrong and um ABA therapy which is now what kids go into it's a multi- billion dollar industry and I think that they profit very much so from having kids go into this type of therapy and I think ABA therapy can be helpful for some people it can be you know but for a lot of non-speakers with a praia it's it's like traumatic

because Abba therapy um it's behavior therapy and and that's like what insurance will cover if you have um there Insurance to get to the root of IT industry I do think it is I think there's a huge financial gain ABA therapy and Asha and I think it's all them bed together God money [ __ ] up everything it does but I if like anyone listening to this the number one thing is that like if you think of a human rights violation right you that non-speakers aren't allowed to go spell in schools to communicate to participate

socially right you know because these are individuals with ideas and thoughts and career hopes and want to date and want to have friends and want to be involved and and yes they can't control their bodies but they can do they can communicate and and and and to be leaving them out because oh we can't afford or we don't believe that you should have a communication partner in school it's so it's just mean it's a human rights violation I think it's bizarre yeah I mean that's yes it's also very bizarre and it's just it's it makes

sense when you connect to to insurance and money in an industry that's where it gets gross they they're they're against the competitors yeah which is the which is probably truth yeah because if spelling if you could be if if if they'd say hey we will approve for spelling to be covered by Insurance every family could go do this right now you've just spend thousands of dollars often go to a conference do an online thing it's not cheap it's not affordable it's not easily accessible I mean it can be depending on where you live right but

like but it's it's not easy that would be a lot more money to going away from Ava therapy right of course God it's always the root of it all you get to it there's someone who's profiting and doesn't want to stop profiting yeah yeah yeah and the whole industry of a bunch of people working and yuck um so you first recognize that there is some sort of an ability when do you start expanding your idea of what children can and can't do what what what they can and can't see like when when does it get

to where you're at now um so like spiritual gifts when do you start accepting those kind of things yeah I think the corroboration of person after person after person was really helpful you know do you remember like the first one that made you reconsider or consider well okay so the telepathy was definitely that okay that that became pretty quickly and it was really funny too as how like the people working on this like on my crew and my camera guy and stuff U my DP Michael like would quickly we were all kind of like okay

this is happening like you get almost bored seeing it like because became so common and so easy that like the telepathy quickly became unimpressive which is That's So nut so wild to say out loud but then it would be um like I remember Houston who's um a beloved individual um um both in my life and also in the project and his mom as well um he he had this relationship with stones where he could feel like the energy of crystals and Katie his mom is you know an Evangelical and and didn't put much stock into

any new AG thing and I think she went to get a massage and they gave her like a bite bag of crystals and stuff and she was like come on and kind of put those in her you know bathroom upstairs behind one door and you know and Houston came home from school like ran into the primary bedroom and then went to the bathroom and found the rocks and like was so excited and put them in lines next to his bed and wanted to put his head next to them and he could feel the energy coming

from these stones and I always thought okay people believe in stones and maybe they matter because people believe in them but like I didn't actually think they had energy of like healing gifts and here's Houston going feeling the stones so that made me think what okay maybe there's something here enough individuals saying they could see auras around plants and and animals and people so that was something I started being like okay there's this is happening enough and enough that I believe that and then um the language was the next thing and that was pretty remarkable

um and I'm not saying every non-speaker has these gifts I'm just saying the people that I've met that have been in part of this project and there's an an awful lot do um and I think probably the gifts change per person too right how often do you see the language thing um you know I I should send out another s like um like questionnaire but probably every five individuals wow you know um uh but like that's a rough number but it would be interesting to like survey are there any other data points that um would

indicate that someone would be more likely to have these these language skills is there any factors about these individuals like the differences in their conditions or the environment in well this is one thing that has been really remarkable I think especially since the Toopy tapes came out is how much belief and just like acceptance of these type of things matters for them to show themselves right so so I was talking to a parent the other day who's not in the Cathy tapes of someone I've met through this and she said look my son after the

telepathy tapes came out you know he's about 19 said I need to come out to you I can also read your mind um but just never felt comfortable saying it because didn't think his parents would respond well right oh and um and and another teacher was telling me look F now that this has come out and like I've realized this to be a truth in her clinic or classroom she will do a 10 minutes for Thought sharing in the beginning of the day where they can all talk telepathy and hang out and she uh she

said it's like the one of the only times when they're all quiet and they're just thought sharing and she said that you know now the telepathy is out more and more parents are like being told this and you know accepting it because when I fell into this world before the telepathy tapes was out in the world almost every single parent or teacher I met was like thinking this was an individual Miracle happening alone in their house they couldn't tell anyone even sometimes the spouses were fighting I met one parent once not in the in the

Cathy tapes but you know I met her in the journey and she said my husband wants to take my child away because he thinks I've lost my mind by saying that this is happening oh Jesus so you know so now that it's out there I think it's a it it it's just think about it if if you have kids right like if you believe in your kids I believe you I believe in you it makes it difference the placebo effect we know Place placebo effect works if you believe in something makes a difference so when

you say to a non-speaking individual like I want to know all of you I'm I'm excited to know all of you even if that means that um nothing you can tell me is going to scare me or make you love you less or you know I think that's a cool way to approach anyone really yeah certainly and I think skepticism and cynicism is probably also contagious you probably feel that that negative doubting energy which is very suppressing you know just like and if you're already nonverbal and you're already like dealing with a lot of other

stuff like that negativity on top of it you like probably not want to even try right yeah yeah yeah there's a shame I think um just negative feelings yeah yeah yeah what do you do you think this is something that you have I think we all have it I mean but have you have you tried to encourage it in yourself or have you tried to explore it um well uh because I would imagine like if I was doing this work I'd be like let me see if I can do this yeah yeah and I um

for sure and and I will um you know I I often pray at night and sometimes I'll also just beam out thoughts to some of the non-speakers of my life and hope they catch them you know um uh and you know they're Loving Thoughts usually of course um and then there's been a few times where uh I'll see a a non-speaker that maybe you know I've come to know and love in a dream and I and there they communicating something to me and I'll write the parent in the morning and say can you ask so

and so if they were trying to communicate XYZ at all or or you know were they trying to communicate with me last night is usually what I'll say and they'll say oh yeah they wanted you to know blank blank blank blank blank and it'll be what happened so but that's only happened in dreams not in real life um I mean dreams are real life but yeah so I think it I think this I think the more people are open to this and practicing it it's it's there you'll get there and a lot of teachers are

able to get it back two way telepathy where they can start hearing their students back and they said you know there's a teacher and I love the story cuz I she I heard her on a podcast actually and it was sent to me I was like two years into my my journey and this teacher thought no one else in the world was going through this and she said there's a student and he's telepathic and he can read my thoughts and then all of a sudden I started being able to hear him back and I'd be

cooking dinner and I'd hear him or and he would tell me things all he' just pop into my mind and he was younger so I had she had to set parameters to be like you can't come into my mind all the time but she said that in the classroom then they started being able to teach just do the whole thing the whole lesson without talking she'd ask him something in his head he'd start typing it she'd ask something else in his head he'd start typing it and that was something that like a lot of teachers

have expressed that or speech pathologists and and I've often wondered why is it easier for the educator you know instead of the parent and I think it's because parents put so much stuff on our kids right like if I'm watching my son play basketball and he's not boxing out and he's not doing this I'm like oh God oh God can't even watch you know but if it's someone else's kids I'm like oh they're five they're just learning you know I have no care if on anyone else's kid is doing this but um so I think

with our kids we put all this baggage on them even if we're not intending it like the energy is so great where if it's just free and you're just wide open and you're just ready I think some cool Bond can often happen between uh between anyone but certainly at least what my experience has been more Educators than parents that go it goes into this two-way thing this teacher did they explain what the sensation was like like hearing the words in their head like how did they how did they receive these things so at this Point

there's a lot of teachers so I have like a little bit more data points on this and for her she was hearing like a voice in her head very clear you know very clear was she hearing that she interpreted as the child's voice was it a child's sound yeah yeah and and that's what's so cool is for some of the individuals who've kind of gone through this will say um it you just know it's their voice even though they don't have a voice in the real world like you just know it's their energy imprint right

like this is their voice and but then I've met some teachers who are like know what comes in as like a visual a visual pack if you will right like or um one of the most beautiful things I heard from a mom in England and I think her story is great because she knew this was going for years was scared to put it out there she finally did I'm not getting any younger I'm putting it out and then of course there's a lot of parents around England that were like me me too me too me

too this is happening to me and she once explained it to me in the most beautiful way she said um like if if you say the word with a word Thanksgiving you've just said the word Thanksgiving if you send it telepathically you receive the smells you receive sleeping in your childhood bed again like your crotchy uncle who's mad about that like the game of the you know the sound of the football game maybe snow you you're this person walking with the pie like the prayer you say whatever it is all the things that make your

experience that comes to you and there's no there's no misunderstanding what this means and feels and is and it's this whole expansive idea so um I think she she receives things that way wow yeah it's really cool it's so cool but it's also um because of the cultural restrictions that we have put on the idea of telepathic communication even while you're saying this and I'm so fascinated and I believe it for sure part of me is like shut up you know what I mean it's like that part of you is strong yeah that and I

wonder if that part of us unfortunately because of all the charlatans and because of these the cultural restrictions on just the concept of telepathy I wonder how much of that holds us back because there's some things that you do know M and you don't know why you know them you know and if you're a person who goes on instincts you'll follow those instincts and you go I have no idea how I knew that was the right thing to do but it was yeah yeah yeah I mean look I think one thing is experiencing something you

just believe it like I said and I think anyone who has engaged with walks into uh a room with a non-speaker who can do this which from my experience has been quite a few um it's not hard to see it it's pretty easy to to witness it and so when you experience something over and over and over again right it's like are all these parents and teachers all around the world and speech pathologists and principles and ministers and rabbis and everyone whose Witnesses lying did they all come in this great conspiracy to decide that like

we're going to trick the world or they're experiencing something and telling the truth and the first one is out there that's like the most impossible thing to imagine the other thing I want to say too is like there's um a a motivation for someone who's a Charlton right you want to make money off of someone or something when especially when they're the most vulnerable You're Going to exploit this and etc etc or it's for your own ego your gain or career or whatever you know to date because non-speakers have not been able to have the

resources that they need to spell and engage in society they've not been able to have a career yet I mean some have but very few or make money on their own or you know be in the popular crowd or have some cool whatever and um and so what's to gain what is to gain and it's also takes so much energy off and to spell out something I can't imagine that you'd spell out a lie I mean there's nothing to gain in this entire population talking about this in silos all over the world right just what

and also very few people engage with non-verbal people so for this to be this very bizarre sort of strange phenomena that's happening with these people you would have to be in that experience with those people to even be able to appreciate what's going on yeah I think most people you know we so accustomed to talking we're so accustomed to typing things out and communicating the way we do normally that we don't we don't don't even think about what the experience is like for both the parents and the child and that this is a completely different

way of living so whatever these innate abilities that we may have of course they would be the ones who would have them it kind of makes sense that they would be the ones that would be so tuned into it where whereas us we're sort of probably drowning those thoughts even if they do exist we're drowning them off with language with cultural expectation with social media with news and yeah with thoughts yeah with everything with all this we're bombarded we're never even alone with our thoughts anymore right we're just bombarded constantly 247 and you know I

mean this is the number one criticism about social media is that it's shaping your mind in a way that you're not even asking it you don't really don't have agency over it you're just constantly being bombard with data and that data whether you like it or not even if you're objective it's a it's changing the way you interface with the world these people aren't experiencing any of that so like I mean I think they're probably exper like I think they have so much input coming in you know that it can be overwhelming but right it's

not informing their yeah I they're not engaging they're not engaging yeah yeah um yeah it's really it's really remarkable you know well beyond right Beyond because it changes the way we think about human beings it changes what our potential is I I've always always thought that it was an emerging aspect of human consciousness but then as time has gone on I think I start to think probably more than that it probably has always been there yeah we you know I mean animals have weird abilities that we don't understand like the ability that birds have to

to navigate we don't understand what that is we don't understand how they're doing that but we know they do it m you know and they uh they have also there's some ability that animals have to read electrical signals to read magnetic signals like what is what's going on there what what are they doing you know Rupert sheldrick again who who's in the project he he's the biologist from Cambridge he talks about something called the mental field and that was like a good handle for me to start to understand how this could be possible and so

by that like we know that Fields can exist Beyond something and we take it as part of science like we know the Earth has a gravitational field you can't see it you know it's there but that you know it's it's real and we know that magnets have a magnetic field it we can you know you can't see it but you know it's there and and so his theory is that our mind has a mental field that expands outside of the brain and this mental field can like overlap with someone and then a great example of

the mental field if you will would be when you see like a murmur of birds or a school fish and they're all turning exact same time they don't bump into each other they're not like having concussions left and right the bird ones the wild it's wild it's like they do it it's almost like they have a colletive school of fish is essentially the same but in the in the water and and how it's like they have one mind right it does feel like one mind and so this this beautiful idea it's it's not it's not

it's just out there and one of the things I came across that I absolutely adored as well was that Mark Twain he had he coined this term mental telegraphy and what he was responding to was kind of what we think of his phone telepathy but that someone would write a letter let's let's say he wrote a letter to I'm just going to make something up like great Margaret right and he and he hadn't written to her in seven years and he postmarked it on March 2nd well you know maybe two weeks later he got a

letter from Aunt Margaret poach March March 2 and that would happen a lot in the time of letter swapping that at the same time both people thought of each other they hadn't written to each other a long time the letters were postmarked on the same day you know what happened the same day and there was like such a concrete evidence there of wow and so he wrote a lot about that he thought that was fascinating you know and like uptin Sinclair who wrote The Jungle uh you know wonderful author he wrote a book called mental

radio where he was trying to do telepathy experiments with his wife and she would think of something or vice versa and they draw it out and and and he had done this so many times that he talks about this is real I know this to be true because I've experimented it and her and I can thought share and so you know it's like we have examples of this throughout recent history but I definitely think if you go back to many Native cultures I mean even the Vikings The Druids whoever like none of this would be

be shocking right it's they're not going to go try to prove this this is just part and parcel of Being Human and I think it still is but to your point it's just been buried by the noise that we've filled up our lives with yeah like our feet aren't the same shape anymore because we don't walk Barefoot you know our feet have atrophied and gotten withered and twisted and weak and that's uh one of the reason why people wear barefoot shoes right because they want to engage their toes and if you don't your foot atrophies

and becomes weird it just makes sense that your mind or the these abilities of Consciousness would also atrophy because they're never used because it's so easy to communicate with words and so and it's the and also you're dealing with other people manipulating those words and trying to decipher whether or not this is true or not yeah yeah and I mean you know energy right you did martial arts and stuff so you understand like if someone's energy how it can impact you and I think that like most of us have some sense of like you walk

into a room and someone just like they're killing you or like if you're mhm really you know I think energy is a real thing sure but I think as far as like these gifts go or whatever like telepathy um you know we've all had that experience where someone's like oh I just knew the senet they died like I felt it like I I felt the ground in my apartment and I have no idea and then I got the phone call or or the my aunt came to me in a dream last night and said I

love you and I'm always here and whatever and then like the next day they get the phone call their aunt died and there's so many stories like that we hear just in everyday life right sure so again like it's just if we sat back and really thought about this this isn't wild this is part of The Human Experience right and the non-speakers are just the greatest guides yeah yeah it's it's really weird to look at it in reverse though for me because like I said I did think it was an emerging aspect but now I

think it's probably not it's probably something that's been buried by our technology or our progress yeah what we think is progress it's easier to communicate with people with noises and saying but we're probably missing this thing that used to be a part of us and it comes in these little blips yeah little weird you know waves especially heightened anxiety or heightened you know anytime you're stimulated in some sort of a way which makes sense why with psychedelic drugs which dissolves the ego you would have more of those right right this is right so have you

tried to expand your ability in in any way have you have you tried to meditate and try to find where that is inside your Consciousness I in the beginning I think when I was starting to go into this I was meditating a lot and doing a lot of stuff but but right now I'm so focused on just getting the story out that it's like all my time is put on that and I've kind of put my own like stuff aside for a little bit here um but I mean meditation I think that's the number one

way to to help open up anything mental right I me that's and meditation like 20 30 30 years ago was considered kind of Fringe and out there and the idea that it could benefit you scientists looking into that were kind of like oh this guy is kind of off you know and um and now it's that those people were right so um the response has been insane like the the telepathy tapes shot to the top of the charts like everybody was talking to me about it and sending it to me before I ever wound up

listening is that um it's got to be gratifying in some sort of way that like at least people responding to this and they're very excited about it yeah I think so and it's I think it's I mean definitely it's gratifying but you know the story behind that is pretty remarkable and that's I think one of the things that was most gratifying because I never intended to make a podcast you know I was trying to make a a documentary of this and then the documentary became so big that I was like oh maybe I have to

make it as docu series like pitched it to a bunch of you know uh streamers and stuff and I think people loved it they were like oh this is such a good [ __ ] and oh my gosh but like ah it doesn't fit our mandate like it what is it it's not true crime it's not this it's not that and so everywhere we pitched said no everywhere we pitched and I remember going home and feeling devastated because I thought this was the most important news in the world how could anyone like this is this

needs to get out there and thinking it's the end of the road I can't afford to go do a documentary on my own I can't do this I can't do that and I was just like you know and um and I thought this could be a good podcast but I never made one so then it was sort of like this will be my final pitch like hopefully someone will notice and then we can get the film fun and so I made the podcast as just like a desperate like Hail Mary like someone listen to this

please and fund the document and then it like went crazy and it was what was so funny too is when I first started telling a lot of families and stuff about the podcast they were like I I don't know if that's a great idea because spelling is so you have to see it to believe it to know that they're really not touched and that they're really communicating and telepathy you have to see to believe like none of this will work as a podcast and it was just that lightning Bol again you know like no no

this is it this is it you guys like this is it like I just know it it was going to be great and they were like uh you know and so the fact that it did what it did is just humbling and I think so welld deserved for the non-speakers and those parents and teachers who are brave enough right to tell their stories finally yeah I'm glad you decided to follow that instinct because the podcast is the perfect way to do it because podcasts are easily sharable yeah so that's how things really get out there

someone tells you about it you tell other people about it you go on a podcast tell people about your podcast and that's that's what starts it yeah I mean so and I think the medium too is so I never realize what a special medium it is cuz you're talking directly into someone's ears yeah and you're just in their mind like and just can talk to them for a few hours and this was a story that we needed some real long yes you know exploration also it's fascinating and that's what you really want out of a

podcast other than humor you want it to be fascinating you know you you want it to lock in and excite you you know and that certainly does that and and I think most people want to believe you know yeah yeah and I would not have put my time and effort and money into this if it wasn't real I mean it is it is real and people going have to take my word for it like they could just go start working with a speller and again not all spellers I think maybe I don't know who knows

but uh I think these are guesss are pretty easy to see if if you start engaging with the yeah well it certainly seems like it so what so has the film started have you where you at right now so we our first day of filming was yesterday which is really exciting yeah yeah and so um we yeah We're Off to the Races we have five nonspeaking members of our production team which is awesome oh wow so cool like two are specializing in like working on graphics and depicting what things that they talk about look like

like the chat on the hill I don't know if you've heard of this telepathic chat room where non-speakers hang out we can come back to that and like and like the Realms where maybe they get information so or just even what it means to see auras or to see stuff like that so we have two Graphics um kind of uh advisors that will be working with the graphics house on that stuff we have a scientific adviser who's going to help us figure out how to best do the telepathy tapes with the scientists that we'll be

working with um and then two story kind of consultant so it's really cool to um all five of these individuals I believe it's the first paying job they've ever had so that's kind it's just cool having on our so what is this chat on the hill okay so um that was one of the harder things to wrap my head around um when I first met Katie in Houston um Katie said you know Houston talks about this telepathic chat room where he can go hang out with his friends he can kind of tune into this telepathic

chant room and and that and he teaches there too and and it's a place where they can commune and talk and encourage you he teaches in the telepathic chat room yeah Houston's like really special he really is and he's and and I think there are different roles that this person might talk about plant energy and this person might talk about this and I've heard this now from well let's just back up so how many people are in this telepathic chat room well I've I don't know but um but well I'll get to that answer let

me just so because I think that's an interesting thing so Houston started talking about this um what he calls the talk on the hill which is this telepathic chat room and then I met his good friend John Paul who's also kind of based in Atlanta and John Paul would go up to his room and put four pillows on his head and his mom was like he's on the hill and this is what he does to kind of get everything out all the sounds of the house so we can really concentrate and get there and you

know she said he really has like um developed a beautiful like relationship with his girlfriend um on the hill and that and I'm like what on Earth so I didn't know what to make make of it only I knew that it felt very real to these parents and and and these individuals and and people were talking about in Atlanta so I thought okay this might be an Atlanta thing that these individuals are doing this they don't have to be in the same room the same zip code that they can like connect and on the day

I met John Paul um he was on the hill at one point and I asked that question I said how many people are on the hill right now and I think he wrote like 4,000 something and I was like holy cow it seems like a lot and he's like well people are really excited about the documentary right now so everyone's tuning in to find out like what's happening with this so I was like whoa and then and then I just like buried that in my heart as okay this is something that is real and Atlanta

and then I was talking to like the next big whoo again telepathy tapes was not out yet I met a minister in Arizona who had like the largest youth um like special needs youth ministry or something and I was on Zoom with him because he was like found out about the telepathy and found out about these gifts and there was a person in this congregation who could predict the future and see things happening in other spaces in the world and he was just you know I think we were connecting to be like okay yeah you've

seen this okay let's talk about this and he was kind of going through his list of what he's witnessed with the individuals in his um Ministry and one of the things he said to me was I was on Zoom the other day with another young individual or another individual from Minnesota getting these two con to connect and they start talking about something called the hill they go to this place called the hill have you ever heard about this and I almost fell out of my chair and then um maybe like a few months after that

I was talking to a teacher and she goes you know some of my students have you ever heard about this they talk about going to some place called the hill and one of them talks says he goes there to learn about time travel and the other one likes to talk about someone from nor from Norway who talks about the bees and and beekeeping and be stuff and at that point I mean my head is exploding just like wait it's like real like gez you know and then there's a a uh um father in Israel who

I have talked a lot about this over the years and he's kept really good track too of like how telepathy has been buried in the spelling community and in the education community and what's been going on and how teachers are getting fired so he's fascinating but one of the things he told me he's like oh yeah we have a separate Hill in Israel where a lot of the Orthodox like Jewish folks go and they have their own Hill and then I and then I would get some emails be like you know there's also a hill

in Arizona and Florida like there's different Hills so it's it's a mystery it's a magical mystery but but they all call the same thing yeah and and I don't and then I've also met like after the Cathy tapes came out one family wrote me and said hey my son has said he has telepathy no doubt there but he can only do it with people in the room but he's never been to the hill how does he get to the hill and I thought I don't know I guess ask another non-speaker who maybe can teach you

how to like dial into the right frequency you know I'm not exactly sure how that works but it I it's really it's it's awesome you know now is there one Hill or is there many Hills I think there's a few Hills and have they verified that people who are communicating in this hill are actually communicating with these individuals yeah and and in fact that's one of the story lines in the film that I'm really excited about like one of the subjects um is a young girl who's always felt pretty isolated you know it's hard sometimes

to make friends if you're not able to communicate school or whatever so um but she was bringing up names and has brought up names that her mom was like I don't know who these people are you know they're not in her school they're not in our periphery they're not in any of our social stuff and then once the telepathy tapes came out these Facebook groups sprang up of families that were kind of going through the stuff and in in that process she found I think like four of these individuals that her daughter was saying she

was really good friends with on the hill and they also say they go to the hill MH yeah yeah and so we've like corroborated all these points in This Girl's Life have you tried to cooperate actual distribution of information actual communication mhm and you've done that mhm yeah it's yeah I mean that's of course like you have to imagine for everyone in this world all the families that I'm close to and teachers and therapists and stuff it's still remarkable so anytime someone says something we will try to validate it like this person just said they

saw this person on the hill can you ver validate validate they were there and then oh my gosh yes what did they talk about this was said and this was said hey this person says that person is on the hill and talking about blank oh yeah I can verify that that person teaches about that on the hill so like it's not like anyone is taking any of this just in stride like we you just you know I think there's still that human nature like you were talking about that like even the parents and teachers and

me and the people on the front lines of this are still always trying to Val validate it like this happened was that true Did did you get that same thing and then there's that moment of like oh my God like that's happening with all of us all the time too that mindblowing wow that just you know bore out it's remarkable when it happens that the hill thing is next level it's next level it's and why is it the hill why do they call it the hill universally well Houston named it the chat on the hill

he named it how do the other kids name it they're all saying it as well though right they're all saying the same term yeah but I mean just like I you know someone named this cup and we're all calling it Cup right I think like it just spreads so you think that child Houston he named it mhm and then everybody else accepted that name yeah he didn't hear it from someone else I mean he might have I that's the question like what is the name like why on the hill well I've asked people that and

one one individual is like it just feels more like a hill of thoughts like just this like mound of just like thoughts and energy and like being and so I wonder what they're seeing well we're working on that for the film that's like why we have these two Graphics um non-speaker advisor so they can work to make us understand what it looks like to them MH and then once actually once the telepathy tapes was done I started releasing something called The Talk tracks where we like keep going with answering some of the questions and one

of them was this uh uh a young man who reached out after episode two and he's like I want to help or volunteer for you and I was like go work with some non-speakers that's going to be the best thing in the world and he witnessed the telepathy right away he witnessed a few other things and he ends up in the first talk Tracks episode getting to the hill um and his story is really beautiful as to how as a neurotypical man he was able to do that but people need to listen to it because

it's really cool so he figured out how to get to the hill yeah yeah and what does he describe it as um well he said it's divinely protected that it there seems to be gu divinely MH there seems to be like some sort of guide there that like you can't just go in like halberton can't go rip it off you know like there's like like it seems to be guarded and that only people with good intentions can go and I think I mean my I hope people don't try to start going there really really don't

this is non spin it's like one of the pains actually for me is that like oh and putting this out there like but I do think the non-speakers are in charge there it's their space it's a beautiful space and and and I don't think anyone can just get let in you have to really be open open but not just but have a good good intention right completely pure pureness and love are a big part of this and this person who's typical a regular person got in there mhm have had they had any experience in the

past with any form of telepathy before this well the reason his story is so beautiful so again he's an episode one of the talk tracks and and what happened is he had he was diagnosed with um a really rare like autoimmune disease and then like stage four cancer and he he kind of realized like if I need to I need to save my life I'm going to die if I don't learn to like think control my thoughts and and he was able to cure himself and he sent me scans and the Cancer's almost all gone

but I think that that attention to thought and how thought can change your world and dictate what happens in your world really did something in his brain that allowed him to live in that mental space and and I think that helped him I think that really helped him get to the hill I mean he he he talks about more about how he got there um and it took a few times and for him it was all audible it felt like static and certain voices but then he said he did a few tests like there was

a um um one of the students he works with he's like I knew exactly who it was and I could hear their voice I just knew it was their voice even though I've never heard their voice but I just knew it was their energy I just knew it was them and he's like so I gave a test and I said I'm going to tell you this person's name and this person's name and this person's name and you know gave them kind of a bunch of information and said when I see you next you need to

tell me this stuff and then when he saw that person next they they wrote it they spelled it out for him whoa yeah yeah so I I do think the people experimenting experimenting with this have their own deep desire to get it right and try to validate stuff you know it's hard just to take on face value how do you know if it's real or if it's in your own mind you know right but the weird thing is like if this does I mean I'm sure you've opened up a lot of people's minds to this

and again if this expands and then we all agree that this is a thing and that this is a a possible thing and then people start trying to figure out what it is and develop methods to try to tap into that this could be a profound change in just society as a whole yeah yeah and I think the thing I hear the most right is people afraid of their thoughts being out there but what's kind of cool what's going on in your head that you're so worried about exactly well that's how about clean your brain

out exactly clean your brain out you're not going to be afraid of that right yeah what's going on in your head that you don't want body to know totally like what are your terrible thoughts it's interesting cuz when people say that I do cuz mhm I mean we all have certain stuff that like who cares if someone knows that that way all all happens to us right like you're worried about having something in your teeth or something or like you you know accidentally pass gas and whatever like I mean that type of stuff I think

who cares that like that's just being human right but when people are like that terrified it's like what the hell is going on with you yeah I think it's the concept of it too and also the concept I think there's thought that if someone could read your mind that you you're more vulnerable that you can't protect yourself like you know like if you like oh this person's creepy let me get away from them oh you think I'm creepy you know like that kind of thing like that you won't you won't be able to just like

avoid people I do think you have some control over it though and again I can only go off of what I've heard from others but like um one of the teachers who's been just she's been such an advocate and fighter in this world for years trying to point to this and she said the first experience she ever had around maybe not the first but one of the most cementing experiences was she was going to go visit a former student in class and the night before this is wild the night before she went out and picked

like Swedish Fish and you know some donuts and you know I forgot what else pretzels or something and so she comes in to give him his favorite snacks and uh forgot them in the car but she went and she sat with him and talked with him and right before she was leaving the classroom he took out a pen and Drew like a donut a fish you know and kind of Drew the things that she and it like rattled her to her core like she he knew what she was thinking the night before and and now

that he's uh you know graduated she still works with him just as on a volunteer basis um for the sheer Joy of just being with him and she asked him years later how did you do that and and and he like were you remote viewing through me and how did you know at that moment and he's like well once you were thinking of me that was like my invitation to come in like I won't just crash into someone's thoughts it's like I I have to be kind of invited in by like you know like the

the the thought so so I do think that there's a way to kind of control it and I I I know that the teacher that was having the student jump into her brain a lot um the the younger man she said like you need to stop that like if I will invite you in when I want you but you can't just come into my mind whenever that's not appropriate you know right right right and um and so I think every individual is an individual right I mean how this stuff works is probably different for each

person but I I don't necessarily think you know what many spellers have told me is like good good energy allows them to swap thoughts like good Juju allows them to do that um being invited in being open to it it doesn't feel like they can just go into like you know the person running for sentence thoughts and be like ha I actually you didn't fund the you know right the the problem is like what if people get really good at that like what if it expands and then people are just entering into your thoughts all

the time I think technologically that's going to happen anyway yeah you know it's one of the things that Elon has said about this neuralink device that they're enabling said you're going to be able to talk without words yeah yeah but here's the thing too right it's like I again I think most almost every non-speaker I've met their concern is love unity right and so if your thoughts are other people and your thoughts are loving and about Unity it's not scary then for other people to be reading your thoughts you're going to be caring about other

people hopefully the real thought the real scary thing is that there are a lot of people out there in this world that do not have thoughts of love and unity right they're damaged hurtful evil people and they want to destroy everything around them Y and that those people could acquire this ability but would they be able to I don't this is the thing it's like has there been any evidence that evil people have been able to acquire this ability I I would say what I have found and even talking to scientists about this that the

Baseline for this is love there's a wonderful neuroscientist um named Julia mossbridge and she has studied precognition and one of the things she does in these precognition tests is be like how much unconditional love do you feel for yourself for other people for the device you're taking this test on yeah and the more people feel love the better they do and one of the things that I've heard from so many non-speakers with disabilities that the Baseline is love that love love love is like the thing that unlocks this stuff what did they describe love as

anything that unifies I've heard that over and over again what's love it's anything that unifies D wow huh is that the best description of Love ever it is it's a really good description so and and and that was yeah very specific anything that unifies so it's almost like they're tapping into some laws of the universe or law laws of reality that we kind of know by trial and error yeah but we don't we we don't I mean all you need is love you know this is always the love is a ubiquitous concept it's like something

that everybody always agrees is very important to life and happiness yeah but we don't necessarily practice that culturally yeah or as a Society yeah I mean but you go back to like the all the ancient religious teachers and thoughts right so much of it's about love and unity and we're all one and you might not realize this but we're all one and you know it's been interesting like there's a big question mark right now on how how to do these tests and how to prove it and and when I've brought that up to a few

non-speakers one of the questions is like why do you need to prove this with instruments like the biggest spiritual gift the most fascinating one is love that will cause someone to jump into choppy Waters and save someone and risk their own life has had mothers like have so much adrenaline they could lift up a car and save their baby like love is the superpower right and it's like that's it's just it's true and they're like why aren't you trying to measure love and it's like okay good point but still people want to measure telepathy and

then there brings up the question as like of um okay well is it best to do it like in a lab situation that can be really stressful that can be filled with a lot of skeptical people and thrown that energy at you or is it better just to go into your environment take off the lab coat learn to spell go check this out and you think of like really good scientists like Jane Goodall who who when she wanted to understand like a culture of you know how the chimps were working she didn't bring them into

her lab she went and like lived in the jungle for months you know or you want to go look at the lightning bugs that light up in unison in Vietnam I don't know if that's going to work out for you if you bring them back to Berkeley and put them in a building you probably have to go sit in the jungle and wait for them to light up in unison so it's like um is it smart to be trying to test the stuff in in in our way in our Labs or is it better to

be like I'm going to go chill out with you in your living room and and see how this works right the the reason why to test it with instruments is for Skeptics right so once we've all agreed that this is an actual phenomenon this is a real thing whatever this is this is real the best way to test it is really with Consciousness yeah yeah and you know I think about this a lot like the Skeptics because again like I've said the families and teachers the people who people are like let's just move the science

forward we know what's happening we know now we need to know how not why right and and I've thought about like how Skeptics can hold back that research in science and like how much time do you give to them versus like just move on without them and and I was thinking about in the term of like in the olden days right like if of a voyager was going out to discover new worlds and people you can't go find something the wor is flat and you're going to fall off of it or out there is the

blah blah blah blah and someone comes back and it's like discovered Iceland that's say and it's like oh my gosh you would not believe it like geysers are coming out of the Earth and there's black stone beaches and black sand beaches and Northern Light you know whatever they're explaining and they come back and some people would be like Wow Let's go explore it and find out more and you know draw things of it and and some people might be like don't go with them don't go don't even try it they're making it up it's not

real that couldn't exist you're going to die if you go and I feel like the scientists or the Skeptics now are those people on the shore being like there is no Iceland don't go look and you're gonna blah blah blah and it's like that's such a it's such a um a weight to to to forwarding thought and research and this is such a cool exciting New Frontier yes and um well the thing is is like there's levels of Skeptics there's people that are just objective and they're like I need data I need to see something

and then there's people that it doesn't matter what they see they're never going to believe and those are the weird ones cuz there's a lot of people out there that are self professed Skeptics those are the ones that are the problem like they call themselves Skeptics okay right well how about just be objective right well don't just be skeptical right because if you're completely skeptical and you're always looking for a negative you're you're you know you're going to be biased by your own preconceived notions right I mean if you're if you're only skeptical you're a

closed-minded Believer is what you are you're not open-minded you're as dogmatic as like right as the next person who just believes their beliefs and won't look any further at this is it like that's not skeptical well that's a ists right in a lot of for a lot of yeah well I mean there's different kinds of atheists too there's some that I would just I'd say they they're self-professed atheist but they're really more agnostic than anything yeah yeah yeah but I would say I mean I would say I'm skeptical every time I hear something new I'm

like can be that's be like we got to go test this I don't know we got to find okay we got to test it four or five more times but like be an openminded skeptic like that's I don't even think that's skeptical that's just objective like because you hear about something completely novel you're like okay what is it what is that is this [ __ ] cuz you know [ __ ] bullshit's real it's a real thing like that's why Skeptics are important or at least being skeptical is important because there are people that tell

you if you join my cult you will you will experience Bliss and happiness totally true we all give up our money to the guru and he has sex with all of us but it's great like what right totally so skepticism is important it is important it keeps you from getting Hoodwinked it does I mean yes minded skeptical right but this is the problem with not having the ability to read minds right is that people can deceive you and you can't really tell and some people are terrible at it for some reason like some people just

fall in line with the wrong crowd over and over and over again and they never get it right yeah yeah that's so true so you have to be skeptical or you have to be able to read people yeah and the what is reading people though right like there's people that I've met that like right away I'm like this person's broken I got to get the [ __ ] away from them there's a famous uh story that uh with my friend Brian uh Brian Ken who's a hilarious comedian who always has the worst friends MH always

and one time he showed up at this uh show that we were doing together uh with this gal that he was dating and I met her for 5 seconds and I and he'd always had the worst girlfriends they were always just disasters I get I go get rid of this one please I go trust me you you got to move he's like what are you talking about I go dude she's crazy this one's broken and he's like no no no I go dude I am telling you right now turned out she's a methhead he didn't

know she wind up being a prostitute like it was off the chart script but she was pretty and he just thought she was friendly to him and so she was fine and I read her right away I'm like oh everything's wrong here and he's like how did you do that I'm like I don't know I just knew right away you got to get away from her yeah and uh he eventually one day ran into her after they had broken up she was Street walking what yeah like that crazy yeah yeah poor thing poor thing yeah

but it was like I was like that one's going to drag you down like get out of there yeah but I knew I don't know how I knew I just like I me I mean it was a simple exchange like hi nice to meet you nice to meet you too like the [ __ ] going on here was like all my Spidey senses were going off yeah yeah yeah and it's not normal that's not Norm that's not every day it's not like everybody I meet like some people I meet are like something's a right something

with you you have to be able to go on some kind of instinct we all know and a lot of his sort of pattern recognition a lot of it is prior experiences with similar the way similar people engage with you right and you're like oh I've seen this before like this is a con man oh I've seen this before this is a this and this is a that but sometimes sometimes it's just like this is a bad person yes this one's broken yeah yeah absolutely so yes I think having some degree of skepticism can be

good emotional intelligence I think it's OB yeah objectivity to to recognize that people that are deceptive are real you know and there's people that have ulterior motives and these ulterior ulterior motives you you might not understand and you got to be able to you got to be able to throw everything through a filter and unfortunately until we can read minds you're kind of going on these like did you hear that I think I heard something you know it's that's where really what it's like like when you meet a person it's like there's something I don't

know are you being paranoid I don't know you know right and then you can convince yourself that you are being paranoid when you actually you're not you're you're actually accurate yeah and you're like oh you're being silly no you're not being silly you should have followed your initial instincts right exactly and I think that's what H has happened with like materialism being such a for years is that anyone who believed in anything would be made to feel silly right oh you're so gullible or you're not smart like intellectual people certainly don't believe in ghosts or

God or whatever any you know put anything in there that you can't measure right yeah exactly the secret um and so that's been effective no one wants to be ridiculed and dismissed and made it feel silly I mean even editing the podcast like I was so certain I'm like okay what episodes 1 through 4 there's a lot of science this is great the one that took me weeks like I was in turmoil over was having to like put out into the world that like the teachers were hearing telepathy back cuz I'm like no one's going

to believe this this feels so hard but it's like you can't censor it this is what people's experiences and the whole point was like put out the voices of people who've been completely dismissed and ignored and also if love is unifying the love of a teacher and a student is absolutely real like and it's a special bond especially really good teachers oh my gosh really good Educators have like this spe because they really genuinely just want to help yeah and when someone gen and you're a child that's vulnerable and confused by the world around you

and you're non-verbal and there's someone with genuine love for you yeah like it kind of makes sense that those would be the people that bridge the gap it was interesting cuz I saw my best friend for college this morning and her husband was there and he was like why is there so many women in the podcast that have telepathy like can dads do it and whatever and I was like in fact the first person Dr Powell uh tested to telepathy test with um this girl was adopted and she had the best telepathic bond with her

father father you know and I know a young man in Israel whose best telepathic bond is with his father and another you know so yes it does happen with dads but I think there's more women who go into teaching and more women that do caregiving right and so that's probably why it looks like more women but I don't think it's like a gender gendered thing that mostly women have this you know I think it's whoever is in that like loving open yeah I think men are generally more inclined towards brutish thinking you know and and

ego and like Silly Ways of viewing the world and then also preoccupied by their status and life and what that means to you know them and their worth as an individual and all that stuff is massive impediment to any sort of like real love yeah because you're just so self-focused yeah that's very yeah that's definitely a male trait especially in this capitalism Society where you're constantly trying to achieve a higher level of stat yeah and no one's satisfied including billionaires yeah right just the nuttiest thing of all time it's like what is the point you

won the game I know spread it out man game over you should like you have this crazy opportunity with all this money to help so many people and lift up like all of America and any also why are you still just chasing numbers right in a ledger because that's what you're doing yeah you you've got lost in this weird game I actually cannot comprehend that I cannot comprehend I wonder if you could if you were super wealthy maybe yeah and if you went down that path the thing is the one thing would be if you

super wealthy by some divine intervention or someone just gives you money right you know like some crazy billionaire who's like a telepathy tapes fan they're dying and on their will they say listen Kai you seem cool I'm going to give you two billion dollars like what are you g to do with it yeah but it's different but if you went and tried to earn it and so your whole life you were focused on these achievements like I want to have a this and a that and I want to have I want to be able I

want to be important I want to be able to influence political parties and I want to be able to fly in my private jet and I want to I want an island you know you get crazy yeah and then you're never you never have enough because more more yeah and then you're around people like we were talking the other day um also my friend Brian has a friend who's worth like3 billion dollar and he feels poor because he hangs out with these guys that are worth $50 billion I'm like that's so crazy but that's the

world that you live in when you're only thinking about numbers on a ledger you've you've gotten caught playing a game right you're you're playing poker you have chips you know you're this is all just quantifiable it's numbers well none of it matters too who cares here the real number you got a hundred years if you're lucky that's the real number and if you're 60 and you're [ __ ] right like you're almost at the end buddy like what are you doing well and I just I always think about like the impact you're going to leave

behind like what's your legacy like you had a big boat I mean who cares about that right what does that mean you know are you going to be the person well when he died he had so many things I aspire to be like William right yeah I mean there's a lot of people that are like that they think about old dead rich people being boy he really nailed it he killed the game you know and that's you know that's the thing that they have focused on unfortunately this is the problem with financial institutions because they're

like if all you're doing is trying to acquire more money well that's your game and your game is just do that and then as you get bigger you eventually reach a point where like hey hey hey hey hey you kind of control everything like you control natural resources you control land you control building housing Transportation you have everything this is not good for everybody else it's not good for everybody else to for one entity to have so much power and only be concentrating on numbers right yeah yeah yeah I don't know where that comes from

I mean I guess if you grow up really rich maybe that's it or maybe if you grew up without anything it's a competition it's a subversion of what it's initially supposed to be it's like when you put um mandates on officers uh achieving a certain amount of arrests in a month or even arrests in general right or prosecutors right what's what is a prosecutor's goal to win right they have there's the competition the competition is I provide evidence that this person is guilty the defense provides evidence that he is in fact innocent and we sort

it out and if you're just trying to win the game well then you're a corrupt prosecutor because then you withhold evidence that might exonerate that person or you don't allow DNA or you don't there's and there's a lot of that I mean I work with a guy named Josh Dubin who's a friend of mine who's his whole thing is freeing people that are unjustly accused I love that and he's we just because of this podcast a bunch of people are free right now wow and the shocking stories that you hear about corrupt prosecutors where these

guys get caught it turns out there's hundreds of people rotting away in a cage that are innocent because of this one corrupt person jez and because they played this game of just trying to win yeah you know and this is the same game it's the same game of acquiring numbers whatever you're trying to do if that is what your game is your game is Just numbers I I mean that just makes me wonder if like people believe there was more right like if it wasn't just like you've got this one shot and you're just G

here and like tackle numbers and be super rich and whatever like would making a difference and make because it does feel like Yay oh Pana like we're going to just you know yay love each other but like but if you really believed that there was something more right that like you had a higher purpose here that you were more than just your body I think I mean I think if you believe that to some degree you're going to act differently you're more Focus as indifference than acquiring numbers of money yeah it's just hard to get

through people that are completely lost and obsessed yeah you know when someone is complet like like say a gambling addict for instance they're very hard to get to because they're completely lost and obsessed with this thing that they become addicted to which is all numbers right gambling is just all thrills and wins and loses and numbers it's all just I bet 100,000 on the game and I'm okay I think I got five points on the spread they cover the spread then I win and like then I'm out of the hole and then it's this roller

coaster R and so it's very difficult to get to those people that are lost in whatever the game they're playing is whether the game is gambling addiction or financial addiction whatever it is if you're lost in a game it's very hard to get to those people especially if they don't have love in their life right and so if all their status is acquired by numbers by achieving this and pulling up in the brand new Mercedes and wearing the fine suit and having the expensive watch or whatever it is that your thing is that you want

to show up with and there's in this world this this especially today there's all the lures and trappings to pull you into that and you can never get enough you know you can get hand purchase the I mean hand created this and you know rare that and a limited edition that oh did you get the new one oh and then you know you're lost it's just yeah it just doesn't fill you up I think it empties you out more really in the end so right but what it does do oddly is it promotes technological innovation

so keeping up with the Joneses and materialism one purpose that it does serve oddly is this constant push towards newer and better things which I think is also part of the purpose of human life in some sort of a strange way is that we are we are pursuing technological innovation above and beyond everything if you could see us objectively if like you could see us outside of culture outside of language if you were an alien race and you're observing this weird species like what does it do well it keeps making better stuff yeah that's that's

what it does it keeps making better stuff it puts all of its resources into making better stuff and it's obsessed with acquiring better stuff even though it has a finite lifespan it never recognizes or rarely it's an odd and beautiful thing when someone recognizes they have a finite life yeah yeah I was just thinking about that what you're saying then I was thinking God but then every four years the aliens would be like oh but they then they pass a torture on the world and they go and they compete in games and the whole and

for like one small two we period They're all playing these games against each other and then they like put the torch out and go home and that subed by numbers because the people that are playing the game who where everybody wants to see them they don't get any of the money the money is all by these commercials and advertising networks networks in the organization where they profit in the tune of billions of dollars and literally pay zero to the athletes which is so gross another disgusting subversion of this whole thing so the Purity is in

the athletes especially if you're competing in a game that has no financial future yeah you know if you're the world curling Champion or whatever whatever it is you know what some goofy ass [ __ ] Olympics there's no there's no up you're just trying to be the best at this thing and I think like if you can uh achieve something that makes you feel really good about yourself right I think there is a worth in that that's beautiful oh yeah but um and that's like where Sports can come in right that like the underdog can

win and you can work together and blah blah like that's worth stuff I think that's like really beautiful create something that's beautiful but yeah just buying something is not cool I I mean that's right I mean just what what does that do that's not cool like creating something is cool achieving something is cool it's also one of the weirdest attractions attractants about social media yeah is what the stuff that people are showing you they have I know you know which is like you can get a lot of followers by having great stuff and like look

at my stuff look at my house look at my car look at my Jet and there like people go wow and you see like millions and millions of likes it's really CU kids like they love the YouTube videos now like my son will watch like Hot Wheels like people being like this new Hot Wheels goes and he wanted to make these Hot Wheels things and I'm like what is happening right now that you're like basically doing an ad for Hot Wheels you know it's just like I would have never wanted to watch kids unbox Hot

Wheels I mean or Barbies or whatever like none of it you know unboxing things are strange it's like technno porn yeah you know you're you're watching someone do something you wish you were doing oh I wish I had that hot wheel that's it's so weird yeah but it's you know it's also very strange when you think about how many people are uh tuned into that where you never would have expected that in the past like there would never be a television show on NBC where someone unboxes stuff he'd be like no one's going to watch

that but meanwhile put it on YouTube and millions of people will watch that stuff so there's there's a part of it that we didn't anticipate yeah I don't know I hope it'll be a pendulum cuz when you brought up the television I thought well that replace the dance hall right people used to go dance and hang out before there's television like you'd be out doing something and how cool you know or go they also was flat right like there's just benefits to all this ability to communicate as well the problem is when it's centralized right

the real problem with television is a television has advertising advertising limits what you can say and because of that you know we censored language right because advertisers didn't want you swearing on television so the way people talked in real life you they never talked on television right yeah and you know and so that got subverted you know true free expression got subverted by advertisement well and that is what is cool about the world we're living in right now right because like YouTube and Twitter X or you know whatever Blue Sky all the things podcast I

mean people are free to kind of speak and talk not necessarily guy maybe not I bet I can get bad pretty quick which is some simple scientific facts but you know I mean there is a democracy to information now where yes I think think like stuff that could never have gotten out there 20 30 years ago when the gatekeeping of like you were saying advertising and all that was so extreme it's just changed and that's awesome profoundly in in a way that I I don't think we even appreciate because we're a part of it right

I think it's one of those things we've become accustomed to checking the news on your phone when you wake up in the morning and having and Friends sending you things oh my God you see this right and cool things too great music and so many things get EX they get shared like your show got shared to me I I don't even remember who shared it to me because so many people did because I don't remember who the first person was well and I think that's a thing that is cool right we actually have like evidence

of what this like de democratization of information looks like like the uip phenomena has become so much more mainstream people are talking about it like things that could not have been shared or spoken are now out there same with uh psychedelics and psilocybin and you know going on ketamine trips or whatever like all that now is just common knowledge that this can be great for healing PTSD or you know depression or whatever the stuff with telepathy you know I mean channeling whatever it is like all these things especially Tik Tok you're like holy cow this

is so I'm glad you brought the UA thing up I hate to interrupt you but because I think a lot of the what we're hearing is nonsense yeah I mean I think a lot of what is being shared especially publicly like there's too too many voices that I think are either in intelligence assets or are disinformation experts that are doing it on purpose and that there's too much of you know the same feeling that I get you know like when I said I met my friend's ex-girlfriend I was like oh get out now yeah there

there's a I have that feeling about the UAP thing when I hear people talking nothing seems real to me yeah when I talk to people about it there's not one I mean even when people tell me their own personal experiences I believe them it does not register as real that's so interesting something registers as being nonsense there's something maybe not nonsense but maybe way weirder than what they're explaining it like like nonphysical interaction that they are reinterpreting as like physical interaction yeah that there's some there's some disconnect between their work like if someone tells me

an experience that they had like here's a good example um my friend Steve told me a harrowing experience of them being attacked by a brown bear in Alaska and when he tells you this story first of all I know it's real because I know multiple people who were there they were all there it was no one got hurt it was very fortunate but they're they got charged by a Grizzly who ran through their tent one of my friends was on its back oh my go for like 10 yards like it literally plow through the people

and he wound up like riding its back for like 10 yard before he fell off wow yeah it was just like I mean it can cover 10 yards in a second right and the whole thing was just insane chaos and the way he describes how your Reptilian Brain completely takes up the fear is so overwhelming and different than anything you've ever experienced before I know it happened when he's telling me this I know it happened when these people are telling me about talking to aliens and all I'm not getting nothing out of them I'm not

getting nothing I'm getting a flat piece of paper yeah there's no fear there's no there's no charge I don't know what it is I don't know what it is I I just don't get anything from their story I hear it it's interesting but I don't get anything that lights any bells there's no bulbs go off with me I just sit there go wow okay so what were you thinking you know and I'm asking them questions but I'm not getting nothing yeah so that leaves me cuz I know that for sure the government has technology that

they do not want the general public to be aware of for reasons of national security or whatever it is or you know money has been um pushed through to finance things and they lied to Congress and they have to keep lying whatever the reason is that's real there's most certainly Black Ops programs that the general public is not aware of that's always going to be the cas if you have those what better way to hide them than in plain sight and with a bunch of people that are air quote whistleblowers that go out and tell

everybody about all these experiences they're not of this Earth and that's what I would do if I was the government and I wanted to be super sneaky I would have a bunch of my like really clever agents go and whistleblow tell some stories talk talk about people that have been abducted talk about all these different things yeah and then on top of that there real experiences so I think I think there is something because it exists throughout history just like telepathy exists throughout history and ghosts exist throughout history and and religion exists through there's something

there there's something there that's distorted by our very slippery grasp on truth yes yeah I think that's a very true assessment yeah yeah but there's also just too many stories from hundreds of years ago they're incredibly similar to the things that people are talking about today yeah that's the stuff that's interesting to me like Jack valet and exactly I just finished his third book yeah I mean that's the mind he's but he's great because he's not a Believer he's very skeptical about a lot and highlights a lot of the [ __ ] to the point

where we like okay what's true yeah I me those are the people we have to trust though I think the only ones the only ones you can trust because there's too many people that are out there telling you I know what's happening we are about to experience contact the all the people and The Joint Chiefs of Staff have been notified and like those people I don't want to talk to like you shut the [ __ ] up you don't know anything there's no way you know you're you're just taking advantage of this very weird moment

in time where people aren't sure but there's all this discussion of this phenomena and you've grifted yourself to this ex there's a lot of those people are yeah and it's click bait and it's this they profit yeah they they're gross no but the true in intellectual people is looking at the Consciousness side of this I think are fascinating that's what's like what's going on here I think that's where it is yeah it's a conscious I mean that's why you know I wasn't into the UAP stuff until people started saying to me like you should at

least start looking at some of these great thinkers because a lot of this has to do is consciousness and what what are we and why are we here and like what's a hyper object right like like like a lot of stuff I'm like what is going on so you start reading about it and understanding okay like where things might converge is an A A exploration of Consciousness yeah and our Consciousness is confined by identity it's confined by so many different things so many so many walls that we put up and ego and blinders and self

delusion there all these just weird things that we have in our mind because we don't necessarily have a very good Direction book of how to be a human right you know or what we're just limited to by our right like if you were to talk to a dog and be like hey there's does this dog know about calculus and does it know about like the you know whatever Electoral College of course not like there's no way there's no Universe in which a dog would know about that stuff but it could smell a cat four blocks

away you ever see cat dog just like no in the air you know they have insane noses they can they can smell individual ingredients in a hamburger wow that's so fascinating and a bear is like 10 times stronger than that which is bananas they can smell human beings hundreds of yards away just a whiff of the wind and then all like oh people let's get the [ __ ] out of here well and that's like we don't have that but like like a dog doesn't have XYZ what are we limited we might not be able

to see half of what's there or sure conceive of it so wave your hand above an earthworm there's no idea what's going on there no idea what's going on yeah like it doesn't need to lives its life underground those senses are not necessary right so that's the mystery right yeah and our senses most likely have atrophy you know that's the real thing is that you know there's a lot of talk from you know ancient whether it's ancient religious text or of contact of something communicating with you that's not physically there and you you got to

wonder like was this really common for people like there's there's so many descriptions of being contacted by something that's not there like what was that before language normal yeah and and was it physically someone contacted you or was it in a mental space right like were you in this thought world like almost you were astral traveling or whatever right like I mean that's the question too is can you be experiencing something in your mind that's not happening physically right and I think that question is for racis in the UAP world as well as in this

like telepathy world right it's the birds flying around in unison like somehow or another they're tuned in to some some pattern that they never Collide how do they not Collide I know I mean that's like so spectacular that you're literally hundreds of feet above the Earth if you Collide you get knocked unconscious you're both dead and no one collides ever and they're going fast I mean imagine like why would you do that like what what benefit evolutionary benefit what natural survival benefit would there be in a bunch of you flying around in weird patterns in

the sky like look at that look at that here we go that is so beautiful I've heard is they just look like a bigger thing so it's I that's got to be it right you look like a big monster that doesn't scare off fish they go right to that big thing that's the problem you know when tuna see that big thing they're like [ __ ] yeah look how crazy that is I mean it's so but why would that be a benefit to like being a bigger thing that would make you a bigger Target I

don't I mean it's just weird it's so weird like no one's falling no no one's how come they're not colliding how come they're not falling and doesn't it look like art I mean it really is like an elaborate dance have you ever seen wolves hunt no they communicate and we don't know we don't know what they're doing we don't we don't know how they do it but they decide man yeah yeah there's something cuz they they flank animals they know how to do it like they know to chase animals into into canyons and then they

get on the other side of it and they capture them when they're trying to escape it's telepathy I mean one of the teachers that I've come to love so much and she was also in England she said that the first time she realized something like this was going on she was working at a school where there PE the individuals weren't speaking and she saw people of like a bunch of her class playing at recess and she's like it was a fully orchestrated game like this one need to go here and this one need to go

here and they were doing this and then she's like but they weren't speaking and I was watching this through the classroom window and I thought they are communicating through telepathy because how else do this is a huge organized game and she watched over and over again and then she thought in her head like I want to be in on this I want you all to teach me I want to get in on this and then one of the boys started um she'd start hearing him in her head like if he had fallen down outside or

couldn't find his lunch money or you know something happened skinned his knee and she would hear him and like would know where to go find him and she was like oh my gosh like he's this is starting to work and then whoa yeah and then like one of the students um mothers died and she became and the mother said to this teacher I want you to really take care of my son as he ages he loves you like he he really respects you and she's done that his whole life and now you know um he's

a grown adult and and they still communicate but she's like now he communicates with me telepathically I'll get these huge visual packages and she's like and sometimes I think first did this come from me and I making this up but it'll be like an update on someone from you know that they knew both 20 years ago and she'll be that can't be that this guy's unly priest he was so religious or whatever it would there'll be something that makes no sense and she'll go look it up on Facebook and it proves to be true so

you know she'll constantly have to double check things and she yeah I mean so it's it's remarkable but I do not doubt that the wolves are probably using telepathy yeah I think chimpanzees do it too I think they they all have roles and they know what role to play and they just sort of like lock in on this task together and somehow or another communicate like they lay in wait they know when to wait it's so cool weird it's so cool yeah it's so cool I mean imagine if one day we can figure out through

technology to access minds of animals and see how an owl thinks like see like what is what is the what's the process in their mind when they lock onto what is a predator thing what is a what is a does a prey animal know when it's being watched yes yeah yeah I mean sometimes there's been that book I'm a Hunter they don't they don't always know they don't know at all no sometimes they don't know at all that's so how far away are you when you're sometimes like 50 60 yards and they have no idea

you're there wow and they're you know but a lot of times they're distracted too cuz they're in the Rut so they're mating and they're distracted and which is a rude way to hunt them but that's that's how that's how people hunt them it's like the worst way to hunt someone I mean not always there a lot of animals you H music not in the Rut but um you know like white teal deer elk primarily you hunt them when they're in the Rut yeah there's some animals though that are very very difficult to hunt and one

of the reasons why is you don't hunt them when they're in the Rut like mule deer mule deer are the most clever and the most aware of all deer species because they're constantly being pursued by Mountain lines oh so they're always like what the [ __ ] is toally nous they're like always on on edge and they have an uncanny ability to get out of the way they just they they know something's there and they're like [ __ ] this and they just bounce out yeah yeah you got to sneak up on them when the

wind's blowing you got to like like people take their shoes off to creep up on them so tactical yeah well you have to be because you have to especially bow hunting so you have to get ideally you want to get within inside of 60 yards yeah that's really what you want especially a mu deer is not that big an elk is a much larger Target but a mu deer is you know a big one's like 300 lb you you got to get pretty close and they [ __ ] know something's up they know something's up

you know sometimes you're staring at them and they just like what you know they're just tuned in yeah there's also I don't know if this is real or not but there's a company called hex and they make these uh they make clothes that block out your electrical signal and one of the things like it's very hard to discern whether or not it works with with mammals but it seems to work really well with fish so there's a lot of video evidence of these people putting these hex suits on underneath their their wet gear or their

um scoy gear and then going in the water and being able to get like right up close to fish they don't even know what the [ __ ] is going on and they couldn't if they didn't have the suit on this is their assertion okay now obviously they're selling a product yeah very controversial in the uh the hunting World whether or not these things are real some people people 100% believe in them and there's a bunch of evidence that people wear them and then they sit in a field and turkeys like get right next to

them and turkeys have incredible Vision turkeys have better Vision than humans yeah huh I'd like to know more about that yeah but the the the really compelling stuff to me is the water stuff cuz they do it in the water and the idea is that prey animals have this electrical some sort of a signal that they're giving off yeah that these animals can pick up H that's really I'd like to learn more about that that's fascinating well fish have a thing called a lateral line you ever seen that line unici so that lateral line is

interpreting movement in the water it's interpreting filmographer he says it lets him get him closer to anything than really without it he's just showing different so this is fo she got the problem is obviously this is a commercial right right and the problem is you know these people believe it and I don't know if they've done like how would you do a double blind study with this you know would you you're you're dealing with completely different fish completely different time yeah you know there's what did that fish exper did that fish just experien a shark

30 minutes ago what do you you know what's going on are they a bunch of them I think you have to do it a lot and I don't know if they've done that because I think they're just trying to sell the this thing that may or may not work and it's because it blocks out your magnetic field is that what supposedly what is what is their expl explanation if measure that does has something to do way to measure that well the human body is essentially an electrical system right so it kind of makes sense that

we would give off some sort of a A visual representation or some senses that we don't understand just say electromagnetic patterns or okay something about that huh all right what is Google Hex suit debunked oh Google that HC suit HCS suit debunked I wonder if anybody's ever tried to debunk it and say that's nonsense because I know a lot of people that don't think it's that works they won't wear them but I know my friend John Dudley who's one of the best hunters in the world he wears it every time he goes hunting really yeah

fascinating he thinks animals can't see him as well when he wear is it so interesting I mean if he believes it works then that's like you know sometimes the uh the Act of Faith is more important than the fact of it right so sometimes maybe I don't know no I think the fact is more important because if you're doing both things if you're doing if you're you're doing everything correctly but one thing does give you like camouflage works we know it works because there's something about the way animals see they they essentially see movement and

line detection so to see the frame of a human being clear like if you're wearing black and you're standing there and you're a bipedal thing they're like oh [ __ ] that that's a person let's get out of here but if you're lines are completely broken up by camouflage and you stand still they don't see you they see nonsense they see the woods they see you know you blend in yeah yeah and that's why camouflage doesn't have to look like leaves and sticks it can just look like patches of black and stripes and tiger stripes

right that makes sense yeah yeah it does it does make sense I mean that's why animals in nature have that yeah you know I was watching this uh thing where they were explaining what uh Animals See versus what we see why Tigers would be so beautifully colored because the animals don't see that color for reason but they do see the lines and the lines completely blur in with the grass because animals seeing black and white right or in a weird sort of shade interesting have you found anything about hexu debunk lot tons of anecdotal evidence

few videos people though a good point is like how did Fred Bear do it how did he get so close to stuff that's just their example the old you know the original uh Hunter right those guys all like shirts and they weren doing odor blocking that odor blocking [ __ ] doesn't work yeah I I have no real no one did like a study and made a CU by the way if you have odor blocking the animals smell the odor blocking and they're like what the [ __ ] right yeah yeah that is thaty [

__ ] weird smell there's no way we smell so bad to animals there's no way they smell us like we smell a skunk yeah that's so interesting yeah you know you can smell a skunk that gets killed like five blocks away that's how they smell us they know we're in the neighborhood yeah yeah so I don't think that sent stuff does anything I mean maybe it blocks a little bit so maybe it helps a little bit maybe I mean you're looking for every little Edge cuz you're essentially competing with the survival instincts of something that

has existed in that form for a thousand years or excuse me a million years or more right you're walking into an environment you're supposed to lose in if you're hunting an animal yeah the only reason why you win is because you have a bow and arrow right or you have a a rifle and you know which way the wind's blowing that's the big thing it's like if you get winded if they smell you it's over yeah like the whole thing is the wind has to be in your face so if you're looking at the animal

the wind has to be coming in your direction if the wind hits the back of your neck it's over really you feel it you're like oh [ __ ] cuz they'll smell you instantly oh they're like what the [ __ ] this and they're gone instantaneously wow yeah 100 yards away they just start running really oh yeah yeah yeah what if the wind was going like perpendicular no it has to go to them okay right that's why they always find themselves they always bed down in a position where the wind is coming straight to them

towards any threats and then the uh the females will line up and look in the other way so they'll look towards uh the the way where the wind is going yeah and then everyone will line out so the wind comes to them and then some will look in the opposite direction wow yeah and they try to keep their eyes open but again it's because they're dealing with cats it's a fascinating sport though yeah it's just cuz it's so so I mean it is so tactical not just like the physicality of it and the wind and

the environment but just like the the mental you know it's also bizarrely psychedelic in this weird way when when you're there the world doesn't exists and when you see these animals you connect with them in some sort of a strange way and you're you're trying to like almost not exist you're trying to like give off nothing which is what cats do when you see them creeping up on things they're not like Oh [ __ ] theying they're like locked in it's locked in almost like nonexistent until they go and then the whole thing is like

I got to be able to move quicker than you can run away right yeah that's such a it's a cool sport yeah it's a weird but it's whatever these animals are experiencing with each other is probably some form of telepathy as well you know how do they know like how do wolves know to work together is it just trial and error like it seems like they have roles that they like predetermined roles like one of them will chase them down the other one will be laying in weight like they they do stuff together they coordinate

in some some strange way you had that Wolf Woman on your show right boy fascinating yeah she's so interesting yeah but she was most afraid of people remember that yeah yeah rightly so how many people get killed by wolves every year versus people yeah yeah people are way creepier yeah wolves are just real I mean clear not simple complex obviously but clearing what they're trying to do they're trying to eat and survive and that's that's their job yep yeah well this was a tangent wasn't it yeah yeah we we got a lot of tangents but

that's uh the beauty of the human mind it is I love the it does go on tangents I think that um we're we're all sort of trying to understand why we view the world the way we do and how much of that has been projected Upon Us by culture and society and how much of it is things we understand innately how much how many things we can't prove but that are a part of this world that we live in right and I think what your show has done with the telepathy tapes and I'm sure what

the documentary has done is I think more important than anything open up this possibility to be explored you know and recognizing that it's real and that these preconceived notions that we've held on to for so long are probably erroneous we're probably have screwed ourselves by latching on to the idea that this is it yeah this is all that we have and this is the way to live life and you know put your suit on and go to work right yeah what a boring way to live life gosh I can't imagine working in an office um

yeah I mean I I think it's a pendulum shift I mean the whole world is opening up right now right I mean there's just like so much is happening I think think that people are challenging these preconceived old fash o I might have some coffee now please do sorry offered you earlier no I said no earlier now I'm now I'm into it cheers Che cheers thanks for being here yeah like your mug with a third eye you can have it really okay I'll bring it home that's cool um so I can't wait to taste your

coffee see how strong it is it's pretty good that's great shout out to Black perfect yeah it's good it's great um so what is your hope for this stuff like in in your most ideal scenario how you're you're obviously your show's been received in a tremendously positive way and uh people are super intrigued and it's really popular so that's great so so more more discussion but what what like in an ideal scenario what would you like to happen okay I think there's three things right I think one like Baseline for people to presume competence in

non-speaking individuals or someone who can't control their body don't think just cuz they can't speak doesn't mean they can't think you they're not there they're in there in there right and then I think the second one is certainly to try to get spelling validated in in schools right like it's almost like telepathy in a way operated as a trojan horse to get people to acknowledge and notice these incredible individuals and just take note and help them so I get think getting spelling um validated and affirmed and make it accessible in schools that would be the

next thing and then I think the third thing is I mean truly a paradigm shift I mean I I want people to know because I've come to what I feel like is believe this right that there is a non-physical world that's real our idea that Consciousness is at the tippy top that's the result of this physical world I think is incorrect I think Consciousness is at the bottom of it and started everything and with that in mind Consciousness then there's so much more possible it can survive our body we can communicate without our bodies we

can see into the future May into the past I mean whatever it is anything mental we're capable of and that helps us explain a lot more so the paradigm shift I think is really cool um if it can happen and a lot of people have been working toward that you know I mean so I'm just like a tiny bit in a large puzzle of huge giants that have come before me but I think that um that if this is going to help more people like just be aware of the system of what is called again

like this materialism which is the idea that it's only what's real can be you know observed and measured if we can get people to realize they're living in that system and that system was constructed and it's not necessarily the truth so don't be embarrassed to talk about stuff to research stuff to ask a question you shouldn't be ridiculed and dismissed just because the system tells you you should be that concept is just so hard to grasp if you've not if you haven't read any of Tom Campbell stuff or haven't considered this or listened to rert

sheldrick talk or your show it's like it's so hard for people to grasp that yeah Tom Campbell blew my mind I mean he is like lot of text messages from buddies after that like what the [ __ ] dude I'm so confused yeah but this is what I will say cuz I actually had a friend that when I was sort of like going through my own thing she was just like just if you just start reading about some of the stuff just reading it you'll find what you're looking for like there's so much there whether

if you start reading about near-death experiences or Ian Stevenson or Tom Campbell and any of this stuff it's just like and the re people are researching this right like it's not like this just happened this been been going on for a long time these questions so once the the documentary is out what do you hope to do next do you have a a game plan so we just started working on the dock I'm hoping that will be done and wrapped up you know early next year maybe we'll come here it South by we'll be back

hopefully I mean who knows and so so after that then we're going to do an impact campaign where you take a documentary around and you screen it with a panel so that'll be cool it'll be non-speakers and you know we can get people from the Department of Education there or whatever in different cities and then hopefully that will make an impact get people into the rooms talking whatever and then after that we have a really long-term goal where we want to try to work with like a few foundations or maybe start a foundation to open

centers that can um if you can imagine something maybe like kind of like the size of an REI in every city where non-speakers can go and get like physical and mental and spiritual supports and spelling help and education or whatever you know there's Physical Therapy that can help and for respit care for these parents who are working 247 to take care of these individuals and it could just be a beautiful thing but then there's so many academics to what you kind of noted earlier like that might want to work with non-speakers who might want to

can can you help me decode whale language or figure out how to stop blanching the coral reefs or whatever so if there's you know I know non-speakers who want to work in plant Med and who want to work in this who want to work in XYZ but I think the most important thing is these centers maybe could vet those individual SCH make sure these academics learn to become a spelling to communicate partner and and be background checked to make sure they don't have some nefarious goal and then this could maybe create opportunities for spellers to

make money to have a career to really contribute in these meaningful ways so that's our goal is to create these like centers that can both nourish and support non-speakers and their families but also allow non-speakers to engage and use their intellect and abilities to have like meaningful careers that and more right more more people coming out more people understanding it more people grasping it more people accepting and then this sort of changes the level of cynicism so it changes the level of negativity and opens up the acceptance of this stuff and then maybe we learn

more yeah yeah and it's just mean in history too people would look at deaf people or blind people before and think they're not in there especially deaf people was just like oh they're must not be in there no one thinks that anymore it's ridiculous to think that you know but we're doing the same thing to this population so yeah I mean um there're some of the most brilliant individuals that I've ever met and actually I talked to a teacher right before I left here today and I said she was talking about her student she just

had a conversation with who um she said in when in El in middle school or whatever High School what did you learn that whole time um what did you learn in school well he was being taught like he was little and what he answered was patience I mean just so beautiful so wise right he wasn't cing on like I learned nothing they kep telling me animal colors and this and whatever like it wasn't anger it was I learn patience wow because us you know our stupid system that has made these individuals out to be like

they're not smart right has taught them has failed them when it comes to education so I just thought that was a beautiful answer and so so in line with how wise and kind and thoughtful so many non-speakers I've met are yeah it's a beautiful answer that's a good way to wrap this up k thank you very much for being here and thank you very much for your series it's really incredible and I I can't wait to watch the documentary and I'd love to have you back on when when whenever it releases yeah wonderful I'll bring

some parents with me I'll bring and a non-speaker with you can see it okay I'm going bring Katie and Houston and your mind's gonna go okay let's do it let's do it all right um telepathy tapes it's available basically everywhere Spotify Apple whatever right wherever you get your podcast get your podcast it's really incredible I loved it um all right that's it thank you very much thank you Joe thank you bye everybody [Applause] [Music]