Oprah & Arthur Brooks: Build the Life You Want - Episode 1 | Oprah's Super Soul | OWN Podcasts

OPRAH WINFREY: Thanks to The Hartford for supporting this special bonus episode of "Super Soul." [INSPIRATIONAL MUSIC] So Arthur Brooks, Arthur, welcome back. ARTHUR BROOKS: Thank you. OPRAH WINFREY: It all started right here. ARTHUR BROOKS: It did. OPRAH WINFREY: During the pandemic, I came across a column in "The Atlantic" magazine and noticed that I started to look forward to reading it every week. It's called "How to Build a Life" by Arthur Brooks. I knew I had to meet the man who wrote such insightful advice. So Arthur Brooks, it is my great pleasure to meet you. I

am such a huge fan of yours. Arthur Brooks is a world renowned social scientist-- ARTHUR BROOKS: Happiness is really a combination of three things, enjoyment, satisfaction, and meaning. OPRAH WINFREY: --the author of many books, including the number one "New York Times" bestseller, "From Strength to Strength--" ARTHUR BROOKS: I'm a big fan of your "How to Build a Life" column in "The Atlantic." I find myself sharing it with my kids all the time. OPRAH WINFREY: --and a professor at Harvard Business School, whose course on happiness is so popular, there's always a long wait list. ARTHUR BROOKS:

I thought about it, and I thought, it's not about them. It's not about Harvard. This is about everybody who needs the science of happiness. The whole world is on the waiting list for this class. OPRAH WINFREY: This year, Professor Brooks and I teamed up to co-write a book we call "Build the Life You Want-- The Art and Science of Getting Happier." And I am very happy to say it debuted at the top of "The New York Times" bestseller list. ARTHUR BROOKS: We cooked up the whole book here in this room. And it's really-- it's incredibly

gratifying. OPRAH WINFREY: And isn't it gratifying also? I mean, I was really excited to hit number one on "The New York Times" bestsellers. I mean, one of the reasons why it's so gratifying is because first of all, number one, it's always gratifying. ARTHUR BROOKS: It's a nice number. OPRAH WINFREY: It's a nice-- ARTHUR BROOKS: It has a nice ring to it. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. But it also means that the work that we conceived in this room was well received. ARTHUR BROOKS: Right. Well, you remember, we talked about it. We discussed

not what's going to be in the book, but the why of the book. OPRAH WINFREY: The why. ARTHUR BROOKS: This was the big thing that we did here. We said, OK, what's the point? What are we trying to do? And it was lift people up and bring them together with science and ideas. OPRAH WINFREY: So we decided to do a three-part series, y'all, to dive further into the book here on "Super Soul" because my intention for this platform has always been to enhance the human experience and to bring you information that will open up your

life. So I know that you listeners are interested in learning new ways to explore a life with meaning and purpose, which is what you, Arthur, are all about. And before we get started, I think you should tell everyone, actually, about your day job or what you do. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so my day job is I'm a teacher. I'm a college professor. I teach The Science of Happiness at the Harvard Business School. I also teach at the Harvard Kennedy School, which trains people to go work in government. And I research, and think, and teach

about behavior, human behavior, what motivates people to do what they do. I'm a social scientist. OPRAH WINFREY: Yes. I was going to say, you don't just teach there. You are actually a scientist. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. And I've been a social scientist for the past 30 years. That's what I've been doing with my life. OPRAH WINFREY: A PhD social scientist. ARTHUR BROOKS: Indeed. Indeed. And so I teach-- people ask, you know, you're a professor? I say, yeah, Harvard Business School. They say, what do you teach, accounting? Finance? Marketing? Supply chain management? You know, something really practical

like that. I say, no, I teach happiness. And they think I'm lying. But I teach happiness with the same seriousness that you would teach supply chain management. Look, your life is an enterprise. Your life is your start up. Treat it as such. Treat it with seriousness. You know, treat the inside of your head the same way you would treat your P&L statement is the bottom line. OPRAH WINFREY: Your life is your start up, the biggest start up you're ever going to have. ARTHUR BROOKS: Totally. It's the best enterprise you could be part of, and the

most serious one at that. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. So on this series, we're exploring the ideas in the book where Arthur, the author, offers science-based practices and wisdom that anybody can use to become happy, your, I call it, happierness. ARTHUR BROOKS: It was so good that you coined that. It's helpful to me because for the longest time, people would say, you know, the goal is happiness. And I would say, no, it's getting happier, but that doesn't have a ring to it. And I told you that for the first time. And you said, so the goal is

happierness. OPRAH WINFREY: It's happierness. ARTHUR BROOKS: That's the right word. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY: I love it. ARTHUR BROOKS: And now people are saying it. My students are saying it. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah, we need a t-shirt. Before we dive into the book, let's talk about your own journey, though, because people want to know your story because you are the professor of happiness. And how did you get here? At age 55, you left a very successful career. ARTHUR BROOKS: Right. OPRAH WINFREY: And you were a chief executive of a think tank. And

now you-- then you started studying happiness. Was it to bring greater happiness to yourself? ARTHUR BROOKS: For sure, and other people. You go through kind of a-- not necessarily a dark night of the soul. But at certain points of your life, there are hinge points when you have to ask yourself, why am I doing what I'm doing? And what is the mission of my own life? And the truth is, as I thought about it, and prayed about it, and talked to the people I love about it, it was very clear, the mission of my life

is to lift people up and bring them together. And ideas of love and happiness, using-- OPRAH WINFREY: Well, you were also doing that with the think tank, right? ARTHUR BROOKS: I was trying, but-- and it was good. It was good. I was grateful for having done that. I did that for 11 years. But it was time for somebody else to do that. And at 55, I still had plenty of gas in the tank. And I wanted to use everything that I knew for other people, and quite frankly, for me too. I wanted to dig into

this thing that we now call happierness and see whether or not it was achievable in my own life. And if it was, could I bring it to others? OPRAH WINFREY: Well, you know, studies are showing that America is in a happiness slump. ARTHUR BROOKS: Indeed. OPRAH WINFREY: I don't think you even need a study to figure that out. You just look around you or you turn on your computer, you look at your phone, I mean, the news, the conspiracy theories. What is going on? ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. No, it's true. I mean, the data are unambiguous.

The experience that we all have that it feels like people are less happy, it's true. And there's kind of two things that we need to understand. You could say that there's problems in the climate and problems in the weather. The climate has been changing for happiness for decades now. Since the late '80s, maybe the early '90s, people have been gradually getting a little less happier year, after year, after year just a little tiny bit. And that has to do with the fact that people are less likely to live a spiritual or religious life or find

a life of meaning in those institutions. They're less likely to have a close relationship with their families. People have fewer and fewer friends who know them well. People have less of a sense that they're serving others with their work. That's the climate. And that's been a problem for a long time. Then there's weather, storms. There have been two big storms in the past couple of decades that we have to pay attention to. The first was around 2008, 2009. Now, I know everybody watching us is like, oh, obviously the financial crisis. Uh-uh. That wasn't it. OPRAH

WINFREY: I thought it. ARTHUR BROOKS: It was social media. Same time. OPRAH WINFREY: Oh. ARTHUR BROOKS: That's when everybody started looking at social media. OPRAH WINFREY: That's right, 2009. That's when I got on what used to be Twitter. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. Yeah, the artist formerly known as Twitter. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. Exactly right. And that's when-- and a couple of things were happening. So Twitter, for example, became a platform for people to be intensely negative. Instagram is not the same way. It's more of a platform for people compare themselves to other.

But that had a big impact, especially on young people, especially on women and girls, 15 to 25 years old. It created a new kind of culture that was intensely comparative and problematic. OPRAH WINFREY: So social media actually, where people think it's bringing you closer together and you're communicating on Facebook, it's actually made people less happy. ARTHUR BROOKS: Lonelier. OPRAH WINFREY: Lonelier. ARTHUR BROOKS: Here's the weird thing. When you're super hungry and it's like, oh, man, I haven't eaten. You know, I haven't eaten in hours, and hours, and hours. And you pass by a fast food

place. And you're like, good. That'll get the job done. And so you gorge yourself, and you're stuffed, and you don't feel so good. An hour later, you're hungry again. What happened? The answer is you didn't meet your nutrient needs. All you met is your caloric needs. And so the result is you stay hungry, even though you don't need the calories. Social media is the junk food of social life. It's like getting all of your calories-- OPRAH WINFREY: That is a tweetable moment, but we don't tweet anymore. We X. What do we? ARTHUR BROOKS: X? Is

that what we call it, X? OPRAH WINFREY: I don't know what do. I don't know. ARTHUR BROOKS: But so that's-- that's like getting all your meals at 7-Eleven. OPRAH WINFREY: Social media is the junk food-- ARTHUR BROOKS: --of social life. Social media is the junk food of social life. You'll get too many calories and not enough nutrients. That's the reason you'll binge and get lonelier. That's a problem. And a lot of young people have never developed in a way where they can finally figure out how to use it responsibly. OPRAH WINFREY: What's going to happen

to the generation that was born at that time and that's all they've ever known? ARTHUR BROOKS: We don't know. That's a big social experiment. That's a massive social experiment. OPRAH WINFREY: That we're in the midst of right now. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. It's not as if social media is all evil. I mean, you can use it responsibly. OPRAH WINFREY: Absolutely. ARTHUR BROOKS: If you would not let somebody into your house who bears you ill will, you shouldn't let them into your head. And that means you shouldn't be looking at the social media where somebody can be

tweeting at you or X-ing at you and telling you that you're this, you're that. And frankly, that's a big problem. That's the storm. That's the turn of a century. OPRAH WINFREY: Wow. So let's get happier. ARTHUR BROOKS: Let's do that. OPRAH WINFREY: Let's get happier. On page five, you say, "happiness is not a destination. Happiness is a direction." I know that was a shift in mindset for many who are reading this book. Can you expand a little bit on that? ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. And this is-- the problem with happiness-- it's such a funny thing because

we all want it. Every philosopher and theologian has talked about it. Everybody-- I mean, how many times have people said that on your show? OPRAH WINFREY: I know. That's what I say in the beginning of the book, that-- ARTHUR BROOKS: Thousands of times. OPRAH WINFREY: I became interested in the subject because every time I would sit with the audience and I'd say, what do you want, everybody would always say-- multiple people would answer, I just want to be happy. I just want to be happy. But yet, when you ask them, what does that look like

for them? Hard to define. ARTHUR BROOKS: For sure. And part of the reason is because it's not something that you can define in any meaningful way. We think it's a feeling. We think it's a destination. It isn't either. You know, happy feelings are nothing more than emotions. And emotions are nothing more than information that we need in reaction to the outside environment. And as a destination, why would you want to be completely happy as the destination? You'd be dead in a week because you actually need negative emotions and experiences to train you to keep you

vigilant, to keep you safe. OPRAH WINFREY: And to be happy, to keep you alert, to keep you on it. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe when I die and I'm in heaven, I see the face of God, the beatific vision will be pure happiness. But on Earth, I'm telling you, I need my negative emotions to keep me alive and safe. I need my negative experiences to learn and grow. And so that's what people-- they want to stay alive and safe, but they don't want the feelings that keep them alive and safe. And that's this

conflict that they have, which is why they feel so unsettled. OPRAH WINFREY: OK. So I think, particularly, in this world of social media, people think, if I just get that-- I mean, I see people posting on private jets. And I see them, you know, on beaches, and you know, their hair blowing in the wind and all that. And people think, well, if I just had that, I could be happy. But we know, you have the science to back it up, that there are really four pillars. And if you don't have all of those pillars working

in your life, you will eventually end up feeling not necessarily sad, but lonely, or distanced, or disconnected. ARTHUR BROOKS: That's right. OPRAH WINFREY: So the four pillars. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah, the four pillars. There's kind of the four pillars you think that you need. And there's four pillars that you really do need. The idols, the things that look right, but aren't, are money, power, pleasure, and fame. Those are the things that mother nature says you get those, you're going to be happy. OPRAH WINFREY: Money, power, pleasure, and fame? ARTHUR BROOKS: That's right. But she lies. Mother

Nature lies. She lies a lot because she wants us to keep running, running, running, running, running. OPRAH WINFREY: Is Mother Nature telling us that, or is society telling us that? Because I think Mother Nature is telling us that it's the four pillars. ARTHUR BROOKS: Well, Mother Nature gives us these imperatives because she wants us to be hungry, you know? And she wants us to survive and pass on our genes. And the way that you do that is with money, power, pleasure, and fame. And she doesn't want us to figure out that those things never really

satisfy, so that we'll keep running, and running, and running. That's called the hedonic treadmill. What we really want-- and this is backed up by a lot of psychology, neuroscience, behavioral economics, all the research that we want is that there's kind of four things that are the virtuous things that we should be looking for that Mother Nature doesn't necessarily tell us, but that if we take the divine path in life, religious or not religiously understood, a better path in life, we'll be happy. And those are our faith, family, friends, and work that serves. Now, if you

give any teenage kid the choice between money, power, pleasure, and honor or faith, family, good friends, and good times, and work that serves others, I mean, what are they going to take? I mean, our society does aid in Mother Nature's lie because you know, the marketing colossus tells us that if you get that car, man, you're going to be really happy. If you get that job, you get that money, if you get that 100,000 Instagram followers or whatever your number happens to be-- it's never high enough, by the way-- you're going to be happy. But

that's a lie is the bottom line. There's nothing wrong with those things. But if you get those things, if we are so lucky to get those things, they should only ever be in service of the big four, the good four. They should only ever be in service. They should be intermediate goals, a rest stop in the New Jersey turnpike, Manhattan, where you're trying to get is faith. And by that-- OPRAH WINFREY: How do you use that money, power, pleasure, and fame to enhance your faith, family, and work? ARTHUR BROOKS: And friendship. OPRAH WINFREY: And friendships.

ARTHUR BROOKS: Basically, your love. Your love and your life and the love and lives of the people around you. That's really what those worldly goals should be used for if you want to have any shot at true happiness. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. I know we have a lot of questions from our readers. Readers, people who have already read the book, I'm so excited about that. ARTHUR BROOKS: It's wonderful, isn't it? Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. OK, Eric from Denver. Hello. ERIC: Hi. I'm Eric. And I learned from this book that you can't be happy, but you can

be happier. And that really resonated with me because it makes happiness feel like a thing I can incrementally work towards every day versus this big place to arrive. My question is for you, Oprah. I'm wondering how as you've gotten older, your approach to getting happier has changed. OPRAH WINFREY: Thank you for noticing that I've gotten older, Eric. Thank you. I think that's actually-- I like that question, Eric, because as I've gotten older, and one of the reasons why I was so excited about working with Arthur here, is because Arthur, you confirmed my belief system. So

I have been-- I have known since I was a kid that life is better when you share it. And I learned that with my first Three Musketeers bar because growing up poor, I so seldom got candy. I would save it until, like, cousins came by so because it tasted better when I could share it. And now I know, Eric, that that is one of the principles of enjoyment, which is what actually defines happiness, enjoyment, satisfaction, and purpose. ARTHUR BROOKS: Exactly right. OPRAH WINFREY: And so being able-- so to answer your question, I would say that

now that I know that the science actually backs me up on life is better when you share it, I want to share it more. So it used to be I would just love doing a random act of kindness or doing something, you know, meaningful for somebody that would help them in their lives or enhance their lives. Now I make it a habit. It's a part of my spiritual practice to include the enjoyment for myself of making other people happier. So I would say as I've gotten older, that's what I've actually learned about how to enjoy

happiness, not just for myself, but how to spread it to other people. So one of the things we talk about in the book is how enjoyment, and satisfaction, and purpose are the macronutrients of happiness. So let's talk about enjoyment first and the difference between pleasure and enjoyment. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah, this is a big mistake that a lot of people make. I mean, one of the things that we do in the book is we disabuse people of mistaken notions of happiness. Happiness is not a feeling. Happiness is not a destination. It's a direction toward happierness, et

cetera. And another one has to do with this idea that I'm going to be happy if I can just hit the pleasure lever over, and over, and over again. Here's some words that have never been uttered. I'm really happy because of methamphetamine. Nobody's ever said that. That is not what people say. And the reason is because if you use illicit drugs and drugs of abuse, you're going to hit the pleasure lever. It's going to feel good, but it's not going to make you happy. It's going to lead to addiction. It's going to lead to a

supraphysiological level of dopamine in your brain. And all that does is gives you a tiny little reward and then goes away, a tiny little reward, and it goes away. OPRAH WINFREY: That's why you have to keep getting more, and more, and more, and it doesn't fix it. ARTHUR BROOKS: And then what happens is because that becomes an incredibly isolated thing. OPRAH WINFREY: And that's regardless if it's methamphetamine, or if it's your work, or if it's shopping, or if it's whatever it is. That's just giving you pleasure. ARTHUR BROOKS: For sure. I mean, that can be

gambling. That can be eating. That can be all kinds of things that-- whatever your thing is. And here's how you know if it's a problem. If you're hitting the pleasure lever over, and over, and over again and you're alone, then you know there's a problem. That's what it is. And that actually-- inside that diagnosis, there is the solution. You know, that's why Anheuser-Busch doesn't have a beer commercial of a guy alone in his apartment pounding a 12-pack. That's why that's not the ad. That's because that doesn't lead to happiness. That leads to a problem. OPRAH

WINFREY: Doesn't that look sad and pitiful? ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah, yeah. For sure. No. What they have is a guy with his buddies making a memory, the guy with his friends or his family making a memory. And therein lies the answer to this is not that you've got to-- OPRAH WINFREY: Lots of advertising does that. ARTHUR BROOKS: Totally. That's what all the beer commercials do because they want you to be happier when you use their product. And the reason is they want you to have enjoyment, not just pleasure. Now, a lot of the problems that we

have in kind of a puritanical culture about this would say that the solution is if you're hitting the pleasure lever repeatedly by yourself, get rid of the pleasure lever. But that's not necessarily the solution. OPRAH WINFREY: Because the pleasure has its pleasures. ARTHUR BROOKS: Totally. You need to add two things. You need to add-- OPRAH WINFREY: In order to have enjoyment. ARTHUR BROOKS: Exactly. You need to have the source of pleasure, plus people that you love, plus memories. Now, what you're doing is you're moving the experience of the pleasure from the limbic system of your

brain, which is deep down. It's evolved over a 40 million year period. All it is is sending signals to you about how to survive. OPRAH WINFREY: I have the perfect example of this. So all my life, from the moment I was working in Baltimore making $22,000 a year, my first vacation, I spent on going to a spa. So I love spa-ing. So I've been to many spas by myself, where, you know, massages, the whole pedicure, manicure, the whole thing, walking around in your robe. And this past April, I went spa-ing. I did a thing that

when the first spa I went to, there was a very wealthy woman there. I remember-- Ann Getty, I think, was her name. And she was there with all of her friends. And I thought, wow. What would that be like to have enough money to go with all of your friends? ARTHUR BROOKS: It would be more fun. OPRAH WINFREY: It looks certainly more fun than me walking around alone in my bathrobe. And this past April, I did that with dear friends. And it's the most fun I ever had at a spa. ARTHUR BROOKS: Because you took

the pleasure. You added the people. You made the memories. OPRAH WINFREY: And we made the memories. ARTHUR BROOKS: That's exactly right. That's enjoyment. Now, that means you don't have to forego the sources of pleasure. You have to add the people in the memory. OPRAH WINFREY: People plus memory makes it enjoyment. ARTHUR BROOKS: Pleasure, plus people, plus memory. Now, you can mess this up, right? You can have all your friends can be drunks, you know? And they can kind of-- you can go into a cycle like that. A lot of people-- you know, I drink too

much. And he drinks too much. And we all drink too much. And we all get really drunk together. So I mean, obviously there are exceptions to this. But that's the basic rule of thumb. You don't have to do less. You have to add more. This is not a subtractive formula. This is an additive formula. Almost everything in the science of happiness is additive. You've got to add more ingredients to make it good. OPRAH WINFREY: So I think this is so great. Whatever it is you-- so this is an easy formula. Whatever it is you take

pleasure in, find a way to add other people into that pleasure, and it becomes more enjoyable. And you're making memories, babe. ARTHUR BROOKS: That's right. And so you know, I'm not saying don't go to Vegas. Just don't go alone. 4:00 in the morning, you're going by yourself. No, no. No, no, no. Go with your buddies. Go with your spouse. Go with your friends. And by the way, if you're being compulsive, they're going to say, dude, really? Can you afford that? And you're going to want to have more fun with the company as opposed to compulsively

pulling the lever again, and again, and again to get that little spritzer of dopamine onto the nucleus accumbens of your brain, giving you that little relief. And that just goes away, and you're still by yourself. OPRAH WINFREY: So enjoyment is one of the components. And in order to enjoy, you've got to add other people and make it more conscious. ARTHUR BROOKS: Exactly right. OK. Monica, what's your question from Michigan? MONICA: Hi. My name is Monica. And when you talked about the difference between pleasure and enjoyment in the book, that really struck me. And I realized

that I tend to seek pleasure to cope with disappointment, or sadness, or anger. So I would love to hear some examples from both of you, Arthur and Oprah, around how to disrupt that pattern when, as you say, pleasure is easy and enjoyment is hard. OPRAH WINFREY: That's good. ARTHUR BROOKS: Disruption, right? I mean, the whole idea is you get-- she knows. I mean, by the way, the first-- she's good. Monica is good because Monica realizes. She already has gotten knowledge about this. The basis of getting happier is knowledge. You know, this is the thing. A

lot of people are just like, I'm going to feel. Let me feel something different. No, no, no, no, no, no. The Dalai Lama says, think more, feel less, which is really important. So that's why we wrote a book that has a lot of science in it, because people need this particular knowledge. And she's really, really on her way. And she understands that there's a cycle in hitting the lever to get the pleasure, hitting the lever to get the pleasure. You have to disrupt. That cycle that gets back to just what we were talking about before.

You disrupt that cycle with love, with another person, with people that you care about. You add the person who disrupts that little relationship. When you talk to people who have suffered from addiction, one of the things that they always talk about is that the addiction was, like, my closest relationship. You know? It was like-- it was like-- OPRAH WINFREY: They were consumed by it. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah, for sure. It was my lover. It was my best friend. And I wanted to go away with my best friend, which was booze or whatever it happened to be,

gambling. I wanted to go away with them. You disrupt that by adding a real living human being. That's how you disrupt the cycle is add a person you love. OPRAH WINFREY: And also, accepting unhappiness. You say, without unhappiness you wouldn't survive, learn, or come up with good ideas. Even if you could get rid of your unhappiness, it would be a huge mistake. The secret to the best life is to accept your unhappiness, so you can learn, and grow, and manage the feelings that result. I think that's hard for people because what does that mean to

accept the unhappiness? When you say accept, it often feels like so I'm just supposed to like do nothing? I'm just supposed to accept it? I'm supposed to surrender to it? I'm unhappy. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. No, that's not-- it's not the idea. The truth is that you need to accept it as normal. And this is a big part of our culture today is that we think that if we feel unhappiness or pain, there's something wrong with us, that there's evidence that something's broken if you feel unhappy. You know, if you're in college, you go to campus

counseling and say, I'm really feeling anxious, and I'm really feeling depressed-- and you know, my university is a really hard university. If you're not anxious when you're at Harvard University, that's the problem. That means you're not working hard enough. Maybe that's when you need therapy, quite frankly. You know, when I talk to young people, they say I was feeling really anxious about my studies. Like, of course, you are. That's a normal thing. That's the acceptance, the acceptance of the fact that you have feelings, including negative feelings. And you'd be dead if you didn't. OPRAH WINFREY:

Who's walking around at Harvard not feeling anxious? ARTHUR BROOKS: Totally. Totally. By the way, including the faculty. It's like, my students, they don't quite figure out that I'm, like, freaking out too. OPRAH WINFREY: Thanks to The Hartford for supporting this special bonus episode of "Super Soul." WOMAN: Today's bonus episode is presented to you by The Hartford. The Hartford is a leader in property and casualty insurance and employee benefits. For more than 200 years, they have provided people and businesses with the support and protection they need to pursue their unique ambitions, seize opportunity, and prevail through

unexpected challenges. In an industry that sees customers as risks and data points, The Hartford stands apart committing to people beyond the policy by using their knowledge data and resources to make positive contributions to society. It's why they are committed to making adaptive sports more accessible to youth and adults with disabilities. Help employers create stigma-free workplaces with mental health resources, support small businesses with opportunities to showcase their products and services to revitalize main streets, provide fire safety and prevention education in cities most at risk for home fires. So whether it's a bridge to span the Golden

Gate, a storefront with the family name on the door, or a home in which to make memories, trust The Hartford to help protect what matters to you. Brought to you by The Hartford. Learn more at the hartford.com/achievement. OPRAH WINFREY: Jean from Atlanta has a question about regret. Jean? JEAN: Hi, Oprah. Hi, Arthur. I'm Jean. "Build the Life You Want" has been the gift that I didn't even know that I needed. On page 20 when I read that people who do not regret tend to make the same mistake over and over again, I thought, that's me.

When I was 18 years old, I failed an exam that would enable me to get into the university. And my dad said, no crying. Move forward. And I didn't. Now, my question is, how do I today begin to use regret as a tool when my African upbringing has dictated that I move forward and get on with it? OPRAH WINFREY: I love that. ARTHUR BROOKS: That's a great question. OPRAH WINFREY: That is great. ARTHUR BROOKS: It really is good because that's a lot of advice that we give our children. You know, it's like, suck it up.

OPRAH WINFREY: Suck it up. Yeah. ARTHUR BROOKS: You know? And like, move on, move on, move on. Now, there's there's, like, a kernel of-- I mean, good for her father because what he was really telling her was not forget about everything that happened. What he was telling her was don't ruminate on it. Don't you know, go over it again, and again, and again and have it, you know, create a constant source of sadness in your life. On the contrary, you've got to keep moving. And that's true. But here's the thing, rumination is not the same

thing as understanding. When something bad happens to you, you benefit from it tremendously if you analyze it like a scientist. That's one of the reasons that I tell my students to keep a failure journal, like, have a disappointment journal. OPRAH WINFREY: We talked about that. ARTHUR BROOKS: We talked about it in the book. Absolutely. We talked about how you can do it. When something bad happens to you, write it down, and think about it. Don't ruminate on it. Don't have it be kind of like a ghost around haunting the limbic system of your emotions. No,

no, no. Use it as an opportunity to think about what actually happened. And when you do that, by the way, when you think about it as if you were analyzing a problem that somebody else had, this is something we talk a lot about in the book, then you will learn and grow. So the point is don't ruminate. Understand. That's the way that you can actually use the information, take the time to understand these things appropriately, and learn and grow. OPRAH WINFREY: The second macronutrient of happiness, satisfaction, is that thrill from accomplishing a goal you worked

for is what you say. Why is satisfaction also the key to getting happier? ARTHUR BROOKS: We're made to make progress. Human beings are made to make progress. You know, we want to achieve. The funny thing is that people always think, when I get to my goal, then I'm going to be finally happy. But that's just incredible fallacy. That's called the arrival fallacy. You know, like, you and I are doing high fives because the book hit number one in "The New York Times" best seller list. But if we're like, OK, now Oprah and Arthur are going

to be happy forever, we're kidding ourselves. OPRAH WINFREY: No. ARTHUR BROOKS: Next week, we're going to be doing a new project, doing a new thing. That's the truth. The arrival fallacy is once I finally get the money, once I finally get the marriage, once I finally get the car, the house, the boat, then all will be well. The truth is that the greatest joy comes from the progress toward the accomplishment, even in spite of the fact that it requires a lot of struggle. Satisfaction is that moment that you hit it, which is a real moment

of joy. Now, the paradox in that is that it doesn't last. And it can't last. If you actually-- OPRAH WINFREY: That's why you couldn't get no satisfaction. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah, that's right. And the truth is you can't keep no satisfaction. That's the real problem. I mean, Mick Jagger had it almost right. OPRAH WINFREY: That's why I was saying Jagger couldn't get no satisfaction. ARTHUR BROOKS: That's right. And the truth is if he couldn't get it, he wouldn't keep trying, and trying, and trying, like he sings. The problem is you can't keep no satisfaction. And that's

what seems kind of like a bitter fruit with the satisfaction dilemma. You need to struggle. If you don't struggle, by the way, there is no satisfaction. If my students cheat on my exam and they get an A, there's no satisfaction. OPRAH WINFREY: There's no satisfaction. ARTHUR BROOKS: They do an all nighter, and they work really hard, and they get an A, they're like, yeah. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. ARTHUR BROOKS: And you know how it feels. I mean, you and I, we worked hard on this book. I mean, it was a quick job with real quick turn.

And we were-- OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah, from the time that-- yeah, it's miraculous from the time that we decided-- ARTHUR BROOKS: I'm sending in chapters like, I don't know. But then, boom. And it's satisfaction. Then the problem is thinking that once we arrive, it's going to be good forever and then having a little-- the frustration that comes from the satisfaction is dispelled. And there's a way to fix-- there's a way around that. But once again, you got to fight Mother Nature. OPRAH WINFREY: OK. So you need enjoyment. You need satisfaction. And you also need purpose. Those

are the macronutrients. ARTHUR BROOKS: Right, like the protein, carbohydrates, and fat of-- OPRAH WINFREY: And how-- OK, so explain to people how the macronutrients fit into the pillars. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. So the macronutrients are basically the elements that we find that you need in balance and abundance. You can't just have a life of enjoyment. You also need satisfaction. You need goals. You need to struggle. And you need meaning, which is the why, the essence of your life. You need those things. The happiest people have those three things. And they work on them. They take them

seriously. And we spend tons of time about how to actually do that. Then-- OPRAH WINFREY: So this is why this is so great for y'all. And I mean y'all meaning myself too because when-- ARTHUR BROOKS: And me. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. When we figured it out-- I mean, those are-- that's the baseline. You need enjoyment, you need satisfaction, and you need meaning and purpose. And let's talk about what meaning and purpose means because I think people get all confused about the purpose, like, I don't know my purpose. I don't know my purpose. ARTHUR BROOKS: Right. So

those macronutrients are just, like, the macronutrients of food, the component parts of food. Then you got the dishes and the dinner, which are the pillars that we'll talk about later, the things to actually be focusing on, the things that you're working on. But the last macronutrient is meaning or purpose. Meaning is the essence of your life. You know, who am I? It's this whole finding yourself thing, right? It's like, I got to find myself. And people from the beginning of time, it's like, who am I, right? And that's no joke. That's a hard thing to

do. I mean, some people believe that you could discover it because your essence precedes your existence. I mean, most religious people, you know, people raised in the Christian faith, like you and me, I mean, we believe that we're made in God's image. And that's our essence. And it precedes us. OPRAH WINFREY: Right. Right. ARTHUR BROOKS: Other people think that they can create their own essence. This is-- you know, different philosophies believe that's a tricky one, right? Some people believe there is no essence. That's a real problem, right? But the truth of the matter is that

to do that-- and we talk about this in the book a little bit-- that there's a quiz that you've got to give yourself. And you have to have real sincere answers to two questions. Now, if you don't have them, it means there's a crisis of meaning in your life. But that's a good thing to know that because then you have the opportunity to go in search of just the answers to just two questions. Question number one, why are you alive? And again, I can't tell you that. I mean, it's like, you got to have your

own answer to that. Go in search of that answer. And the second, for what are you willing to die today? And the answer probably shouldn't be nothing, right? There's got to be something. And once you actually find the answers to those questions, it's extraordinary, Oprah. You know, when you see this, my-- you know, a lot of my family-- my family. And one-- my son, you haven't met yet because he's still an active duty Marine. He's a scout sniper in the US Marine Corps. And he struggled in high school because meaning, you know? He was goofing

off, and he wasn't even having fun because like, who am I? So I-- I'm a business school professor. I make my kids do a business plan when they're a junior in high school, you know, a business plan because the enterprise alive. And they're entrepreneurs. I'm VC. I'm venture capital, so I deserve a business plan. I realize it's pretty nerdy, but there you go. OPRAH WINFREY: I like it. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. And if it's not original, I send it back for revisions. So this is my son, Carlos. He's a good boy. And Carlos-- like, his business

plan is kind of-- I don't know. I don't believe it. So I say, you need to find the answers to these questions. How are you going to the answers to these questions? So in his business plan, he says I'm not going to college, which is fine. I didn't either until I was 30. You know, it took me a long time to get through college too. I wasn't ready. He went to work on a farm. He spent two years on a dry land wheat farm in Idaho. Then he joined the Marines. And he's 23 now. He's

married. And he's got it going on. And he's got answers to those two questions. And I ask him, Carlos, why were you born? Why are you alive? He said because God made me to serve. For what are you willing to die today? He says for my family, for my faith, for my friends, and for the United States of America. Boom. OPRAH WINFREY: Boom. ARTHUR BROOKS: And you know, that's not everybody's answer who are watching us. But that boy's got answers. OPRAH WINFREY: At 23. ARTHUR BROOKS: At 23. And his life is different than it was.

His life has meaning. It's beautiful. As a father, I couldn't be prouder. I couldn't be prouder of the enterprise that he's building of his life because he's becoming a good man. OPRAH WINFREY: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that. You're the venture capitalist, and bring me the plan. Yeah. All right. ARTHUR BROOKS: Business school. OPRAH WINFREY: OK. Chapter two is entitled, "The Power of Metacognition" and what I call feel to feel and then take the wheel. Explain metacognition. I think this is just one of the biggest, biggest, biggest contributions to people getting happier in their

lives once you get the metacognition. ARTHUR BROOKS: It's changed my life. It's just changed my life. And part of the reason is because people go through life relatively unexamined in their emotions and just hoping that their emotions will get better and with a complete inability to separate their own essence from their emotions. And that's a crazy thing to do. You're not your emotions. Look, I'm not my hand. You know, it's-- I'm not-- my hand is not completely independent. It's like one of those old horror movies. But that's how people are with their emotions where their

emotions are controlling them. Metacognition is thinking about thinking. It's the ability to look at your own self with a certain intellectual remove at a distance. It's putting distance between your feelings and your reactions and doing it on purpose. When you have that ability, your life isn't going to be the same. It just isn't because you're not going to wonder, like, is something bad going to happen to me tomorrow? By the way, answer, yes. Am I going to feel bad about it? I'm going to decide how I'm going to work on this. I'm going to decide

my reactions. I'm going to substitute emotions that are more appropriate for what I'm doing. Now, you have emotions for a reason. You're not going to block them out. But once you have metacognitive skill where you can put space between the emotions that are just simply signals from your brain about what's going on around you, and-- OPRAH WINFREY: The emotions are there to tell you that something's off and you need to do something about it. ARTHUR BROOKS: It's just information. It's just information. OPRAH WINFREY: Your emotions are just information. ARTHUR BROOKS: That's all they are. OPRAH

WINFREY: And if you can separate yourself from the thing that you're feeling, feel the feeling, and then take control-- ARTHUR BROOKS: Exactly right. And the way that you do that is by putting space between the emotions and your reactions. OPRAH WINFREY: Tell us how to do that. ARTHUR BROOKS: So you do that by studying yourself. Now-- OPRAH WINFREY: Don't you do that also by observing the feeling Yeah exactly as though it were happening to somebody else? You identify what this feeling is. You say, oh, gosh, I'm feeling so sad right now. I'm feeling so put

upon. I'm feeling so betrayed, whatever it is. But you separate the feeling from yourself. You're observing all those feelings inside your body, so that you see that the feeling is really different from you. You're in control of the feeling. ARTHUR BROOKS: Exactly. And you're able to react in an appropriate way. I mean, we're so maladapted to the way that our feelings occur to us. I mean, I talk to people all the time where-- once again, back to social media. I got a bad tweet. And what did it do? It raised my-- your stress hormones are

through the roof. You've got butterflies in your stomach and the whole thing. The reason for that is because nature wants you to run away from a saber-toothed tiger by injecting stress hormones into your system when you think there's a threat. Or you don't want to wander the frozen tundra and die alone. But you know, folks look around. No tundra. Twitter is not tundra. And so the result is metacognition is very important, so that we can-- OPRAH WINFREY: Make it feel like it is. ARTHUR BROOKS: For sure. And if you don't have an unexamined life, then

you're not going to be able to make those distinctions. And so you can actually laugh at yourself. When you're actually observing your own emotions at a certain remove as if they were happening to another person and you see yourself freaking out because of a tweet, you will start laughing. You'll be like, really, Arthur? Really? I mean, it's like you're a grown man. You have a PhD. You're a social scientist. You're supposed to know all this stuff. And somebody said a mean thing to you on Twitter, and you're acting as if you an ax murderer is

chasing you? Come on, man. And it's just funny. And life gets better. And that's what metacognition can do for all of us if we have the right techniques. OPRAH WINFREY: OK, so let's explain the emotional caffeine metaphor you mentioned on page 71. We all loved this the first time we heard it. Tell us about it. ARTHUR BROOKS: So emotional caffeine-- this is just a metaphor. Most people, something like 95% of Americans use caffeine on a regular basis. I'm crazy about coffee. I grew up next to the first Starbucks in the world. In the 1970s, there

was one Starbucks. My house was near it. I've been drinking-- OPRAH WINFREY: In Seattle? ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. I grew up in Seattle in the Queen Anne neighborhood. And we used to walk down to Pike Place. OPRAH WINFREY: That was the first one? ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah, the first one. Yeah. I've talked to Howard Schultz about this. He thinks it's quite charming. But I've been drinking caffeine-- I mean, taking caffeine regularly since I was seventh grade, which means I have the most enervated adrenal system. And who knows? I mean, the autopsy is going to be a fun

time. Anyway, so-- but what happens with your brain is you think it peps you up because it gives you all this energy. It's not. What it does is it blocks another neurotransmitter called adenosine. Adenosine is a neurotransmitter that's floating around your brain that goes into these certain receptors. And it mellows you out. So it makes you-- when it's time to be tired, time to lower your energy, whatever it is. The problem is you got too much of it. Like, in the morning, you're feeling kind of lethargic. Too much adenosine is filling those receptors. So you

get this caffeine where the molecule's the same size and shape. And it goes into the parking spots for the adenosine, blocking it, so it just can't mellow you out. That's what caffeine does. It blocks the neurotransmitter that you don't want. That's what it's doing. OPRAH WINFREY: So it's not really perking you up? ARTHUR BROOKS: It's not. It's preventing you from being perked down. That's not an expression, is it? To mellow you out. You don't want to be too mellow. OPRAH WINFREY: If there's happierness, we can be perked down too. ARTHUR BROOKS: Is that what we're

creating? A new language here. OPRAH WINFREY: A new language. ARTHUR BROOKS: I love it. So that's what-- and so the reason I use that particular metaphor-- and you and I talk about this metaphor in the book-- is because that's what you can do once you're a metacognitive, and you're aware of your own emotions, and you're studying your own emotions. So many times throughout life, you've got a particular emotion, but it's not the emotion you want. Choose another one. Choose it. OPRAH WINFREY: So you should have, like, a little storage of better emotions. ARTHUR BROOKS: Repertoire.

You need a better repertoire. OPRAH WINFREY: That's right, a repertoire of better emotions, so when you're in a funk, when you're perked down, you can go to something that perks you up. ARTHUR BROOKS: Exactly right. You can actually block the anxiety and depression. OPRAH WINFREY: Give me an example. ARTHUR BROOKS: So-- and this is an example from a mutual friend of ours, Rainn Wilson, you know, the actor who was in "The Office." He-- I noticed, you know, just through basic observation, that a lot of professional comedians are depressed. So I said, hey, man, what is

it about professional comedy that bums you out so much, that makes you melancholic? And he said, no, no, you got it wrong. It's the opposite. It's that we tend toward depression, and we make a joke when we feel down. And that solves the problem. That's emotional caffeine. When you make a joke and other people laugh, life gets better. You lighten somebody else's load, and you lighten your own load. And you get relief. You get a little cup of Starbucks dark roast at that moment. OPRAH WINFREY: Is it also sort of like-- you know, when I--

every time-- anybody knows this too. I'm sure this happens to you. You go to the doctor. The blood pressure cuff goes on. My blood pressure immediately goes up when I see the blood pressure cuff coming. ARTHUR BROOKS: White coat syndrome? OPRAH WINFREY: I definitely have the white coat syndrome. I've literally-- I go to Cleveland Clinic, like, once a year. And they leave me in the room for a few minutes before, so I can calm myself down because I got the white coat syndrome. And I start thinking about every happy thing, walking in the woods with

my dogs. I've always loved water sprinklers on a green lawn, you know, when you're walking and you can see the rainbow in the water. So I start-- I have, like, this little storage, this little-- ARTHUR BROOKS: Happy place. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah, a little repertoire of things to calm me down to think about. So is that what emotional caffeine is? ARTHUR BROOKS: Emotional caffeine works exactly that way. And the key thing is thinking about the things that bedevil you, you know, the particular experiences that you have, the problematic emotions that are maladapted. They're not the wrong

emotion. They're just an emotion. It's just information. But you can have another emotion that's also extremely appropriate and choose that if you're studying yourself and you've got distance between your reaction and what you're feeling. If you're very reactive, you're like a little kid. You know, you're angry, you yell. You're sad, you cry without thinking about it on the contrary. When something is-- and it's fine. I mean, we like spontaneous people. But that's no way to live. You know, when you have little kids, when my kids were little, my wife would always say, use your words.

I'd say be metacognitive. That's what that really means because when you use your words you've move the experience of the emotion into your prefrontal cortex into your executive brain. And there, you can make decisions like emotional caffeine. You can decide on different emotions that are more appropriate to the circumstances. So here's the thing. OPRAH WINFREY: You can think a better thought. ARTHUR BROOKS: You can think a better thought. OPRAH WINFREY: And you can think a better thought if you have a repertoire of thoughts to go to think. it's hard to think a better thought when

you're in the midst of the-- if you're all perked down. ARTHUR BROOKS: So give yourself some space. Get some space in there and say, OK, I'm going to go to the library. I'm going to pick out that one. Here's a classic one that you do all-- you do super well. I've seen you do it again and again. OPRAH WINFREY: You're talking about-- ARTHUR BROOKS: I'm talking about gratitude. OPRAH WINFREY: I was going to say, are you talking about gratitude? ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. So we feel resentment, and we feel bitterness, or we feel anger a lot.

And the reason is because we're evolved to have those dominant emotions. This is called the negativity bias. The negativity bias is that, you know, we actually have more brain space dedicated to producing emotions that are negative than positive because negative emotions on the pleistocene keep you alive. Somebody smiling sweetly at you in the tribe, that's great. Somebody frowning at you might be a big problem when you step outside. OPRAH WINFREY: And you will remember that frown longer than you remember the 12 people who smiled. ARTHUR BROOKS: Oh, yeah, because that's evolved to keep you alive.

The problem is this is hugely maladapted and S ruin big parts of our lives because we're so-- we're negative all the time. It's also unrealistic. OPRAH WINFREY: That's why in the beginning of "The Oprah Show," when we were still just taking phone calls and people were writing real letters by snail mail, if somebody wrote something negative or said something, I would track them down. I'd get 1,000 great letters. I wouldn't respond. But oh, that's nice. That's nice. That's nice. And one negative thing, I would track them down. I'd find them in Louisiana, Alabama, wherever you

were. I'm going to-- and then call them up and say, excuse me. This is Oprah calling. They're like, what? ARTHUR BROOKS: I know. It's like, oh, no. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ARTHUR BROOKS: It's crazy. But you know, there's a lot of literature on this. Social scientists have looked at this a lot. If you're out for dinner with your friends having a great old times and there's one point of disagreement, that's what you remember from the whole night. That's the thing that stays with you, right? That Thanksgiving dinner when, you know, Aunt Mabel, something-- you

know, she went after, you know, her nephew, Jake because you know, they disagreed about President Trump or something like that. And that's when everybody's like, oh, that was the Thanksgiving where Aunt Mabel went berserk about politics or something. That's what you remember about it. OPRAH WINFREY: We can't invite Aunt Mabel again. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah, because that thing happened. You had a great time for three hours or four hours. And it was, like, three minutes. But that negativity bias, man, that's like a blinking light. OPRAH WINFREY: And we are-- so you're saying we're born that way?

ARTHUR BROOKS: We're born that way. Absolutely, we're born that way. And sometimes it's great because it saves your life. But a lot of times, it just embitters beautiful things. And it's unrealistic. It's not even right. You know, the truth is a lot of times, we're feeling resentment because it's like, can you believe the quality of this airline food? It's like, dude, you're getting all the way across the country in six hours on your middle class salary, and you're complaining about the fact that you don't like the food? It's nuts. Or it's like, can you believe

this? It's a little bit too cold on this plane or you know, whatever it happens to be that we say-- OPRAH WINFREY: That people just allow themselves to be absorbed by that? ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. I mean, we have these incredibly privileged lives. I get it, that we also have problems. And we have suffering. And not everything is perfect and all that. But on balance in modern life, most of the time, it's pretty good. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ARTHUR BROOKS: And this is the point that we can actually get to. And I've seen you do

this a bunch of times. OPRAH WINFREY: Oh. The gratitude thing is huge for me. ARTHUR BROOKS: And I know it's been since you were a little kid, right? That you basically-- when you feel the resentment Welling up inside you, when you feel the anger, even when you feel fear, that's when you start to reflect on the sources of-- OPRAH WINFREY: And not just reflect because it's not enough sometimes just to, like, think about it. I actually-- I have volumes of gratitude journals, volumes. ARTHUR BROOKS: This is a really good thing because this is-- OPRAH WINFREY:

Volumes of gratitude journals. And now I hear, like, everybody talking about it. And I see these reels where people are talking about gratitude. I've been doing it for years, and years, and years, and years, and years. ARTHUR BROOKS: And when you write it down, by the way, it can't stay in your limbic system. Then it's in your prefrontal cortex. The act of writing something down and putting it into words puts it into the executive centers in your brain. And it sits there. I mean, it's in your memory banks at this point. You're really going to

use it. And you have it in the most conscious metacognitive way possible. This is the-- gratitude journals are great. Everybody should keep a gratitude journal. A failure journal is fantastic. We talk about it in the book and all kinds of ways that you can take your sources of disgust and discontent and turn them into learning and growth. But the gratitude journal is a must for everybody. And there are a lot of ways to do it. You know, the easiest way is every Sunday night, write down five things you're grateful for. It doesn't matter how stupid

they are. Like, my team one, right? I ate a Three Musketeers bars with my cousins, like you said, right? Whatever it happens to be that delights your heart a little bit. And then Monday through Saturday, look at those things, and ponder them a little bit. Give maybe a word of thanks, maybe a little prayer. Sunday, update it. The data say that on average, after 10 weeks, you'll be 12% happier. OPRAH WINFREY: I believe that. And I believe that in the moment, when you are feeling the worst, if you can just take a deep breath and

go to the thing that, first of all grateful, for your breath and start you know actualizing for yourself-- and you're saying writing down is more important than just thinking about it, the things you're grateful for. You can feel your own vibration change. ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah. ARTHUR BROOKS: For sure. Absolutely. OPRAH WINFREY: But for me, also, a walk in nature too. ARTHUR BROOKS: There's a lot of work on that that's really interesting. To begin with, that's almost a form of worship for a lot of people. OPRAH WINFREY: It is for me. ARTHUR BROOKS:

You and I have walked here. And it was sort of magic. I remember that we were working super hard on cooking up this book. We worked all day. We were really, really super tired. OPRAH WINFREY: And then we took a long walk. ARTHUR BROOKS: At twilight. It was so beautiful, right? Because everything was so calm. OPRAH WINFREY: There's a picture is that. Yeah. Yeah. ARTHUR BROOKS: There is a picture of that. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And it was-- somebody took a picture of us. It wasn't us. It wasn't staged. And it was-- I remember it

was relaxed, and it was nice. And some researchers are asking what it is about the experience of touching nature and that you can even get more if you're barefoot. That's a whole thing called grounding. OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard that. I've heard that. ARTHUR BROOKS: As a social scientist, I'm like-- but you know, it's funny. The data are actually quite compelling. OPRAH WINFREY: There's some truth to that? ARTHUR BROOKS: There appears to be that, you know, your feet on the grass and soil-- I mean, actually touching the grass and soil has a particularly

profound impact physiologically on what we're experiencing. OPRAH WINFREY: That's really interesting because I enjoy walking outside barefoot on the grass. But I thought it was because that's the way I was raised, you know? ARTHUR BROOKS: It takes you back to-- OPRAH WINFREY: Yeah, Mississippi. I thought it was like dirt road Mississippi. And you're just-- it's like a primal thing. I didn't know that it was-- ARTHUR BROOKS: Yeah. No, there's work on that. And I do-- a lot of people-- a lot of us remember when we were kids that-- you know, out in the backyard, or

you know, in the neighborhood and running around with our bare feet. It brings us back to those particular times. You can smell certain things from your childhood. But there is more to it than that. Scientists believe that there is more to the experience of touching nature than that. A lot of times-- I wind up giving a lot of counsel and support to young people who are in their 20s. And they feel quite lost. And I get it. You know, they don't know the why of their life. They haven't read our book yet, you know? And

so one of the things that I'll tell them to do is to go on a process of discernment about their life to understand the meaning of life. And one of the best ways to do it, I recommend to everybody, but not just young people, is to get up before dawn, it's hard for some people, and walk for an hour as the sun comes up. There's something profoundly mystical. It's cooler. It's quiet. You're alone with your thoughts, no devices, no podcasts, except this one. Do that just with the sounds in your head, with the music of--

OPRAH WINFREY: I know somebody who does that every day. ARTHUR BROOKS: It's super important to do that. That's actually one of the ways that you can satisfy, you know, the spiritual element of what a good and happy life actually needs, a transcendent life, one that transcends your day-to-day quotidian, ordinary, boring work existence. OPRAH WINFREY: Because you get to see how small you are in compared to the largeness of everything else. ARTHUR BROOKS: I'm alive. I'm alive. I don't know what this day will bring. I don't know, and that's OK. I'm just really grateful to be

alive this day and to be walking on this road at this moment and to see the sun rising. It puts you in a state of awe. It puts you in a moment of peace. And if that becomes a-- and by the way, you get 10,000 steps. And that's a good thing to do too. OPRAH WINFREY: OK. So that's a good place to end, right? That's all the happiness we can squeeze into our first episode. We've only just begun. Remember that song? (SINGING) We've only just begun. Who sang it? Carpenters. ARTHUR BROOKS: Thank you. I mean,

it's like, I was a classical musician growing up. It's like, I was raised-- OPRAH WINFREY: You got to know Karen Carpenter. ARTHUR BROOKS: I know, but I was like-- OPRAH WINFREY: Every freaking wedding for everything. ARTHUR BROOKS: I know. I know. Who knows? We played Bach at our wedding. OPRAH WINFREY: OK. So my gratitude to you and to all of our readers for their thoughtful questions, guys, we so appreciate that you're reading the book. I just want to say this. I think this is a great gift idea for your loved ones. There's something in here

for everybody. I am not just saying that. I think-- I, actually, today, sent three copies off to people that I know and I think will benefit from it. So next up, episode two of our three-part "Build the Life You Want" series. And we'll be discussing chapters four and five, specific strategies for you to start taking action and building what matters to you. So thank you, Arthur. ARTHUR BROOKS: Thank you, Oprah. OPRAH WINFREY: See you all next time. Thanks to our episode sponsor, The Hartford.