Chamath Palihapitiya: Zuckerberg, Rogan, Musk, and the Incoming “Golden Age” Under Trump

2020 was like an incredibly prolific period for me you know I'd wake up out of bed and I uh were was doing deals and it was like the I had the world in my in my in the in the palm of my hand it felt like I was you know moving markets every time I communicated publicly that was incredibly dizzying and it had the exact opposite effect on me that it should have what it should have done I should have taken a step back and say hold on this has nothing to do with me what

is this moment and the moment would have been we're at the tail end of zero rates we had trillions of dollars that the government had basically given to individuals um we had an enormous M2 money supply and instead I thought it was me and then in you know 2022 when the war in Ukraine started the bottom fell out in financially in Silicon Valley in frankly a lot of things that I was working on it was such a wakeup call and it was the biggest blessing of my life you know I never thought I would be

in a position to have made that much money in hindsight I've never been more blessed than to torch you know three or four billion dollars [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] do you think um I mean there's you know we're still it's still ongoing the war in Ukraine but it had you said an immediate effect on markets it it was it was like a a pivot point you could point you could put it on a map March of 2022 I'll never forget it so that war um my opinion was you know welcomed by many in

the west and I wonder if um whatever they said it was it was clear they were for it do you think that there those two things are connected um it's not clear to me how connected they are but the first part of what you said I do agree with which is that we have silently allowed this Insidious war machine to take over large parts of the government yes and um what's so interesting about this is that it actually I would have said was more riddled inside the Republican party yes but it turns out over these

last few years especially since this Maga takeover this hostile takeover that Donald Trump affected which I think is enormously important in historical context um but it's it's more within the Democratic party now yeah there are these neocon war mongers that want to connect the dots between people's suffering and their own Economic Opportunity and I think that that's very scary and I think that whenever you see that you have to push against that humans should not be at War we should not be fighting and killing each other it's just a simple foundational moral principle that I

think we all have to live by you just cannot go there and um you have to push back on every Avenue of people that try to take you there I couldn't agree more so sorry to derail what you were saying was very interesting so 2020 You're Everything You Touch seems to turn a profit to your later everything changes why is that good for you losing all the money or all that money because I had to take a step back and actually figure out how much of this was actually me and my preparation and my process

or my Dark Passenger and here's what I mean by this because I thought about this a lot I think we all have a Dark Passenger so when you are born you're kind of like this body that has the capability to do anything I mean you know we talk about this but we don't say it enough but the genetic diversity of all humanity is minuscules so that I think I interpret that as the capability of all humanity is pretty incredible but you have this huge distribution of outcomes and part of that are the things that happen

to you as you're growing up right your lived experience right it's the nature part not the nurture necessarily and nature gives some people a very dark passenger right some of them will then commit crimes some of them will become murderers some of them will become drug addicts some of them you know will have this Litany of things happen to them in my case my lived experience gave me this thing where I have always battled this insecurity that I've just felt I'm basically worthless you know you're a kid you come here you know you're not you

don't really fit in um you know you try to kind of make a social life out of everything else that you're supposed to do doesn't really work right and so that creates a chip on my shoulder and it was this sort of thing where I always felt I was on the outside looking in and then when I you know worked at Facebook and then left and all of a sudden in my early 30s I had you know more success and more money to be honest than I ever thought I would have I spent a lot

of time a decade basically feeding that insecurity buying things accumulating things and to be honest with you if I'm being really honest with myself look I built a really successful investment business by all numerical accounts but I would say for me it was a lost decade I didn't do anything and I got to a point in 2022 where all of that stuff so much of it had to be stripped away and I had to look at what was left and rebuild from fundamentals I had an incredible wife what a blessing that's for sure I had

incredible kids what a blessing five five incredible kids that's amazing it's it's no Tucker It's amazing having kids is amazing I had incredible friends I have a Thursday night poker game that I will frankly no matter where I am in the world I will go out of my way Planes Trains and Automobiles to fly back for because of what that game gives me with my friend so I have these little things where's your where's the game in my house really yeah and and it's great too because by the way like you know many players wello

poer so in Silicon Valley there's like a group of us like some well-known folks that we all get together and my wife was the one that did this she when she first looked at the game you'd see all these people and it was really interesting but you know a lot of my friends have a touch of theism and so what happens is you know you just end up like looking down at your cards for eight hours straight nothing was happening and she said guys this is ridiculous you can play for a few hours but at

7:00 p.m. we're going to break for dinner we're going to sit around a table and we're all going to talk and you must look at each other in the eyes and it was so funny but it's become a ritual and for all of us we all feel seen and then slowly what happens is people start to talk about things that they would have never talked about and what you see is this repetitive pattern people with this Dark Passenger lots of insecurity they achieve a lot but all of that a lot is externally validated but not

internally felt and so there's just this sense that there's an emptiness and people start to panic I thought that XYZ would solve the problem I thought the watches would solve the problem the boat the plane the clothes the chains none of it solves it and everybody like clockwork all of my friends go through it and so it's funny I'm sort of at the tail end of this but that poker game has been almost like this therapy session where we all get to talk and then as a result people feel calmer they feel a little bit

more seen about what's going on my point in telling you this is not sympathy it's just a state that like everybody is going through this struggle yes so back to me I was able to sort of put a finger on what my thing is what is that you know big sack that I've been trying to carry up a hill that is totally worthless and not worth my time it's this idea that I am worthless and I'm not worth anybody's time and that just comes from the way that I was raised and the things that happened

to me I don't want any sympathy for that except to say that's my thing but now that I know it I can try to do things that are more productive in ways where I feel real value and I think that's a very useful process because it reintroduces it it it I think it can fix for so many people the thing that is so broken right now you know we've we are completely despir yes nobody believes in a higher order faith God and so I think what happens is everybody has this Carl Young moment all of

this difficulty sits on top of them and at some point they may never say it out loud they think I am living in a tale told by an idiot right that's that famous quote about why spirituality is important and when you feel that way and you don't have an answer you start to feel angry and you to push back and you start to think tear it all down none of this is working it's all BS so I want to try to solve it for myself and then as I live and as I just kind of

do the things that I'm doing start new businesses make new Investments I want to try to point this out because I think by pointing it out you have a chance for other people to start questioning things do I have a Dark Passenger what is how did you get so self-aware about all of this most people when they feel sad to sort of bumble forward and keep doing what they have always been doing to no effect What stopped you and made you think about what was happening you know I am it's still very much a source

of anger for me like this idea that I'm basically worthless makes me mad and I projected it for many years sort of on the people that I you know my parents for the most part and all that dysfunction um because I think about it a lot and then when I make mistakes so in that 2022 period when I started to really write down here all the mistakes I made one or two layers wrote them down wrote them down it's like okay I invested a couple hundred million dollars in this thing it went to zero what

was I thinking and I would first I and your mind is very clever at first you lie to yourself and you lie to yourself incredibly well well I underwrote it this way I thought the discounted cash flows were it's all Bs one layer after that was and then I communicated my thinking to hold myself accountable also BS that communication got me attention and I like the way it make me feel and then I said hold on a second that feels true I hate that I can even say it that it may be true but that

feels true and so then I go back and I start to think like how many other decisions that I made that I made in that period were rooted in that and when I saw four or five of them I said this is not what I'm supposed to be doing and then I went back and I said how many other decisions in my life have I been making that were rooted in the idea of look at me and it turned out that there were a lot the things I bought the clothes I wore the things I

said the way that I tried to live a life and I felt felt that that was not me I was ashamed of it then I was angry about it and then I asked my wife I need you to help me fix it and this is what I mean by like you have to have a partner I think in crime that can really go through the ups and downs with you damn what did your wife say when you told her this she's like I've been telling you this for year what every wife says but you know

I was like finally I listened and you know she always makes this joke she's like I could tell you the smartest thing in the world and she's like you think you need a man to tell you and I said well time this man was me and it's a joke that no no it's true though uh and so and my father-in-law and my father-in-law when I finally like kind of got rid of all the anger that I had my father-in-law was a father that I wish I had had and what I mean by this is like

some people may not understand this do you may not you may or may not it is extremely discomforting to feel unconditional love from the people around you if you have not felt it if you've always felt it you don't know what it means when somebody says it yes you're like what does that mean I don't know I knew what it did not what what I thought love looked like and then when you have people that love you in this way it's tilting and it made me angry because I would go back to this I would

push back on this and I would go back to that and say why didn't that look like this and I was just I was in an endless loop of just being mad so when you experience the way your wife's family loved each other it made you mad about your childhood yeah and at first I was mad I was I was mad at her you know meaning subconsciously like because she's giving me something that I don't understand and I thought there's got to be a catch where's the asterisk there's always a catch and you know for

years she's like there's no catch damn and then she says to me this is the best thing that's ever happened to us she's like now this next phase of totally building will be that you and I do it together and again I freaked out and I thought what do you mean where'd you find this woman oh my God Jesus I mean she's from the heavens she turns out she's from Milan but she but she's from the heavens and uh and she's like but we'll do it together and it's going to be incredible whatever it is

because we're going to look back and the process will have been the thing and I so I just I needed a guide and I needed to be open to listening and so I needed that event right because you like think about a kid me I grow up in Sri Lanka there's a civil war we claim Refugee status in Canada grow up on welfare I get an engineering degree and within a year I'm in the United States and my career just goes up and to the right everything was working youngest vice president at AOL you know

when I was 26 years old running this big messaging business then I get recruited by Zuck I go to Facebook as one of the early execs I build that business all the key things that they look back on now the network effects the early monetization internationalization that was my team most of my team still runs that company so it was like then I left and I started an investment business those investment returns are really good so everything was quote unquote working so I held myself in really high regard but for the wrong things if that

makes sense of course it does I would could point to a bank account or Twitter followers or all of this stuff and then when that was undone right 2022 2023 what happened I thought that this was all supposed to work and it would have work forever it was an opportunity for me to really reset and tell myself the truth the Ugly Truth hey man you are motivated by stupid inconsequential stuff Get Back to Basics and then when I looked around it wasn't just me there's so many of my peers in Silicon Valley that had also

just wasted the last decade doing nothing we were all quote unquote wealthier but we were more broke you know I wonder I do know and I've certainly seen that a lot having spend a lot of time around rich people but I've rarely seen someone address it as honestly as you are now and I do you know other people who've been willing to look at themselves as clearly um I think there are people that have that may not talk about it but I think that they've lived it I know elon's lived it where he's always underwritten

Things based on like this is this so like you know the great thing about being in Silicon Valley is that there are people that I have the honor and the luck of knowing and my like him but I didn't really try to learn from him until 2022 if that makes sense meaning there were all these decisions that he made that I would reductively reduce to that's a smart business decision and it had nothing to do with business he had he was always leading from what are my what are my core moral beliefs and let me

act on those like the money never mattered you know he never did anything to to to live that experience he loves his friends he loves his family it took me a decade of knowing him until I started to listen to that and like to really hone in on that so he's an example then there are folks that are a little bit older that have gone through it my father-in-law has gone through it ups and downs and ups and downs and he's built an incredible business and he's had to face tremendous hardship where he's had to

underwrite what is really important am I have an honorable person you know is my word my bond when you shake my hand and we do a deal it is what it is you know if I can you know make X but it's way too much and if I can make half his X but it's more makes my he makes drugs you know life signs of drugs make them more accessible should I do he makes those decisions and so you live you see his morality play out in his actions my wife so I think now I

have three or four people in my life but I had to listen and before I chose not to listen because my ego said hey man you're you know you're the best you've heard people say it if you're not doing anything wrong why do you care if other people watch what you're doing well because privacy is integral to Freedom no privacy no Freedom well it's true that a VPN could come in handy for those who spend their time browsing the dark web doing scandalous things vpns are not actually for criminals they're for everybody particularly for people

who are doing doing nothing wrong people like you and me who want freedom from the creepy people out there the Big Data Brokers you might not know it but big data Brokers make a ton of money by selling your personal data information about you and they have access to that because you're not using a VPN everything you do online can be seen by them and then sold by them it's time to change that and expressvpn can help you do it our data is protected because we use expressvpn it serves as a lock on our door

to keep the internet vultures out and thanks to a new feature it can now alert you when someone tries to use your social security number by the way if someone's trying to use your social security number you probably should know about it expressvpn is the total package it's easy to use right now you get an extra 4 months for free when you use our special link and here it is get a pen expressvpn.com Tucker we use it we recommend it so you got very rich in your early 30s yeah yeah that itself is weird it's

really I mean it's not weird where you live it's not uncommon where you live but it's it's historically like there's not a lot of that yeah what's that what are the upsides and downsides of that do you think the the upside I think is that you [Music] can start to really focus on things that you care about the downside is if you haven't if you don't know what those things that you care about really are you're going to waste a lot of time good point what did you do when this is after the Facebook IPO

I mean I I bought a piece of the Warriors that was really cool you know I was like a 10% owner of the Warriors I had a press release from the NBA now and there was like two players on the team at the time that were older than me so like that's pretty weird and and I made some amazing friendships with them when we won the Championships you know we would go to Vegas we would kind of like party together don't get me wrong like an incredible experience especially for you know an ugly nerd that

had no social life do you know what I mean so I I took advantage of that because it's like filling a jug of water right that jug had always been empty I was never invited out right so okay I thought now I'm invited out obviously it's because you know the position it's not like you know we grew up together or whatever but I would get invited out okay some every now and then maybe more often than not I just pay for the dinner whatever it doesn't matter I'm out yeah I'm in the mix I'm in

the game but then the jug fills up and then you're like wait a minute cuz you think like when The Jug is 2/3 full don't worry it's that extra third that's just going to it's going to fix it all it's true so you just go through these cycles and so I mean that was a cool thing you know you do the you go after material possessions that doesn't do anything it really doesn't it's very these are all very hollowing things I think like the thing that like I said like you know the problem with things

like social media what they do is they glorify these things we all fall for it I fell for it so if when you have money you go and you buy these things because you think this is what happiness looks like or you know success looks like and it's not it's none of that stuff now nobody listening to this will believe it because they everybody wants to live that over and over because it's not like a very destructive life lesson you know what I mean like to have like a Laura Pi sweater and not need it

uh but but the the me the bigger message is more important which is if you have a sense of what's important you can kind of kind of see the things that are really happening in a much more um they're more in Focus so like you know I would say like now that I'm 48 I'm much more aware of like what does it mean to be an American what is my job as an American businessman as an engineer as an entrepreneur it's not all of this other superficial garbage because it adds nothing it's to actually allow

the system that rewarded and benefited me to be just a little bit better in terms of the contributions I give to it before I'm no longer part of the system in 50 or 60 years that's very motivating for me now and this idea that my kids can go and join Team America and do cool stuff and find happiness find a great husband find a great wife have a bunch of kids and live a good life and know what they went through and have a better sense of that that seems like an additive thing I can

add to the system to be a good example for my friends when they start to go through their own struggles that they can kind of course correct a little bit faster than I did you know I mean I went through a divorce right so that's a that's a terrible thing after after you got rich after all yeah after all that I went through a divorce you know I was very lucky to find my wife but my point is that my my first marriage you know when you get a divorce that's that's a death in the

family literally yeah literally a death and then you are complicit in the commission of that death you know it's the husband and the wife I mean there are only two people responsible that's right um and so I see a bunch of my friends who are you can see some veering and teetering and now I can sort of intervene a little bit and just kind of cajo and nudge and you know help them and I'm not saying that these are all really Grand huting things but they actually address the the inner part of what I need

needed for a very long time I just didn't realize it no those are the most important things yeah if you can help someone save his marriage I mean I think that's that's a lot more important and virtuous than most things that we do than frankly most everything especially when you think of how it compounds to that that that husband and wife's children oh yeah I mean it's the key thing I I completely agree and a happy marriage makes happy children so yeah um yeah it it redounds through the generations I would say exactly so I

well I was speaking children I was having a conversation with one of my children this morning um you know I know a lot of rich people obviously and we're talking about somebody who we know is you know good guy um billionaire who is totally focused on making more money to the exclusion of everything else kind of and uh one of my children said to me not in a judgmental way but you know with affection for this person but like why like what is that exactly I me why you know I guess it's just on autopilot

some extent like you know I make money I'll make more money but but the drive to make more money that is literally Superfluous like you will never need that money what is that it's an emptiness somewhere else yeah it's a jug that they're trying to fill and they think that the you know the closer they get to filling it the problem is like your mind just switches The Jug to an even bigger jug and then it it gets closer to being full and then it switches again and it switches again I think the much better

way to think about this problem is what am I doing with my time that actually helps the place that gave me an opportunity be better and the people that live beside me be better that is a really morally valuable statement and then you can kind of like look at all the things and all the problems that make everybody mad in the United States as an opportunity to actually do them better and that is useful and when you have money the one thing that you can do is you can accelerate that change much faster than folks

that have to take a much more arduous path for sure and I think we've lost that there's not enough people that basically say okay you know what the United States has given me so much now how do I give back quote unquote and you don't necessarily have to give back by going into nonprofit or going into government you can just acknowledge the problems that are there and go fix them and you can fix them by starting for-profit companies which are always the best way and and I wonder like why don't more people do it it's

a great you can have five decent children too which is probably the best thing you could do for any country um but so thank you for that but I do notice and have always noticed that some of the people who benefited most from the United States dislike it the most intensely and I don't really understand what that is I think that that is um I think that what's happened so I'll give you my framework You Can Tell Me Maybe where where you agree or disagree but it is important for all 330 million Americans to take

a step back and acknowledge this one truth and I think that it is completely a canonical statement that is inviolet for being an American we are the single most important country in existence in the world we are the most important country today we must be the most important country tomorrow period if you say that enough times and you believe it then there are two things that underpin that and I think only two we are the single most vibrant economy in the world and we are the single strongest e military in the world and if you

can agree to those two things which I think should be non-controversial if you say meaning like if I said to you hey Tucker we make the best oranges and burritos in America that does not yield the most important country in the world if I said we make the best shoes and the best flat panel TVs that does not equate to the most powerful country in the world but if I said to you we have the strongest and most vibrant economy and the strongest and most powerful military that is the strongest and most important country in

the world yes sir and then there is only one thing that gives you both of those two things which is technological Supremacy so go back to these examples if I said to you we write the best books those books could be incredibly powerful but it does not give you technical Supremacy if I said to you that we have the most abundant energy oil fields Nat gas it's important but it does not give us technological Supremacy those that get there will be in a position to create the most vibrant economy they'll take that money and then

create the most powerful military they'll put those two things together they'll be the most powerful country so I think today sitting here January of 2025 we are in an existential risk of losing our place in the world and the reason is that we had people we have people from the inside trying to sabotage our economy effectively and trying to sabotage our military capability and they do that not explicitly but they do that because they are in positions of leadership and they fundamentally don't know what they're doing and this is what needs to get called out

and I think what we need is this wholesale reform of the people that are at the levers and in the controls of these things the lack of economic judgment the lack of military judgment is ruining America's ability to be the most important country in the world we are you know in Silicon Valley I think it's fair to say that we have had a lost decade and when you look underneath why what are the two most or three most or four most incredible technological achievements that the Silicon Valley has created in the last decade you're hard

pressed to find it so in one example you have Elon he's created reusable rocketry he's created an entire Global mesh of communications infrastructure he's created electric cars that's an incredible thing what is and he's done that with one hand tied behind his back meaning fighting the government local state federal at every single turn over the last or 15 years what have the rest of us done we've created airpods and Instagram reels why I think a lot of people fell into the same lull that I fell into we had people pushing back constantly we got distracted

we wasted time you know we took an entire Cadre like like look engineering is actually very much like professional sports Tucker like there are Michael Jordans in engineering okay and there are many people that are not close to Michael Jordan you know couldn't even make a JV scrub team yeah there is that crazy distribution of of capability and let's just say in Silicon Valley there's 5 million Engineers if you add up all the companies and all the people maybe that's a lot but I don't know I can tell you that there's at least 25 or

50,000 of them that are like Michael jordanes [Music] capable and instead what we told these people is hey don't win six championships in eight years don't be the most prolific player ever what we told them to do was like hey you can dribble down the court but don't dribble too fast because you'll make these other people feel bad hey you know what you can do a couple of layups but don't do too many layups because you should actually pass the ball so that these other people we hired because the team photo looks better uh you

know give them a chance to score you did all of these dumb things then Team Management would come down and say you know what I actually think the goal should be to play whiffle ball and then you take Michael Jordan off the basketball court and you make him play wolf ball that's what Silicon Valley did we took all this incredible Talent we got distracted by the money yeah right because what really did happen in the valley what did happen is all the billionaires became Deca billionaires and ctib billionaires right the wealth went through the roof

The Innovation went through the floor so we got lulled into this econom IC complacency my gosh I'm so much smarter because I'm so much richer no you're not no you're not I'll give you a different example it sounds like just good oldfashioned decadence kind of I think but I think that there was some sabotage meaning or maybe sabotage is not the right word but there were traps that were laid out and we all fell in them the Dei trap the woke trap the all this kind of stuff that were distract to core Innovation I'll give

you two examples that paint the picture I'll bookend it I'll give you a Silicon Valley bookend the beginning of the bookend is in the early 2000s there's an incredible Professor Jennifer dud and Berkeley and she Pioneers crisper which is the ability to edit genes let's take that off the table whether you think it's morally right or wrong for a second okay it could be a tool it could be a weapon I grant that but it is undeniably a tool that sits in the toolbox that we call technological Supremacy over the next decade what Silicon Valley

managed to do was embroil themselves in IP lawsuits about who actually owned it what China did was take the open source awareness of it and Pioneer it was that smart whether you agree or you disagree should that toolbox be in our toolbox where we can meet it out or should it be in China's toolbox where they can decide where if all of a sudden there is some disease in the future and it requires this very precise form of Gene editing and only they can do it and now a state sponsored entity in China is the

one that Provisions aure for 8 billion humans around the world that will give them tremendous economic power was that is that smart for America to have done that I think not I'll give you a different example which is just today as you and I sit here President Biden issued an EO and what the EO said is executive order AI is going to be critical and so we want to give the ability for federal lands to be used for AI data centers okay now you're cooking this sounds smart let's go read the fine print and by

the second or third paragraph what it says is however we need to think about the you know the diversity and Equity inclusions of said data centers and and no hold on and you have to basically give preference to clean power well is that the same clean power that was essentially made impossible because of Permitting issues and environmental impacts that studies you know you can't just build solar Farms that you want to you can't build wind farms in America if you want to you can't build um nuclear reactors because they won't let you these are not

technological limitations these were regulatory limitations those are just two examples that just show you you cannot do what's in America's best interest right now because people have forgot they've lost the script they forgot the priorities guys the priorities are we need to remain the most sing singularly powerful economic and Military entity in the world the way you do that is through technical Supremacy period I'll give you another two examples just to you can tell me if these are boring but not at all um Saudi Arabia is doing an incredible job they're monetizing their oil they

are uh doing very strategic things with the capital what they've decided is they're going to allocate money that they take from selling oil to build a global data center infrastructure for AI that's really smart and when you look at Saudi Arabia on a map you think oh my gosh this is very smart why because they sit right in this artery between Asia Europe and Africa exactly this is critically smart but what is the one thing that they need that they don't have it's AI chips now ai just to break it down for you know your

viewers think of AI as two buckets okay bucket number one is where you train the brain okay think of AI as a brain bucket number one you train the brain bucket number two you use the brain to make decisions okay the chips that we make to train the brain are under export control right we don't want folks to train their own brains necessarily unless we can govern them that's a Department of Commerce decision on export licensing the way that we use the brain is a different kind of chip and we have some export controls there

what will Saudi eventually be forced to do they're an ally of America they want to do the right thing but they have a responsibility to their people to try to become the most incredible you know economic and military power in the world they're going to go and buy the chips from the people that will actually sell it to them they'll look east of course they will look East and they'll find it in China yet a different [Music] example if you look at Meta Meta has poured tens of billions of dollars to training a brain okay

an AI brain that's called llama right that's meta's um efforts in Ai and it's open source it's wonderful actually my companies use it um it works it's high quality um open AI which is the private close sourced competitor to meta and llama also has an AI brain that they've trained you know GPT chat GPT you've used it probably they've also spent tens of billions of dollars in part coming from Microsoft meanwhile in December a Chinese company open sourced a model where they spent tens of Millions ions of dollars and in many cases that digital brain

is smarter than both meta and open AIS on many dimensions so uh two orders of magnitude cheaper well what do you think that means for the other 182 countries around the world that wants to do something in AI are they going to take the 10 billion doll version or are they going to take the 10 million version they're going to take the $10 million one yeah and when you unpack well why did it cost 10 billion that was my question it cost1 billion because of all the roadblocks that we put in front of companies to

make the things that we need to maintain our technical Supremacy so I'll give you some examples there is a huge so for example one of the things that China chooses to not do is They Don't Really respect copyright law now I'm not saying we should violate copyright law but I think it's important to acknowledge that there is a technical overhang that creates and training these brains to try to filter out content that the New York Times tags or Fox News tags and says don't learn on this you're not allowed unless you have a deal with

me that creates an enormous layer of expense how do we judge that issue today if you ask somebody it's a pretty simple conversation it's not nuanced it's do you believe in copyright or do you not believe in copyright I think it's a much more nuanced question for the sake of training these digital brains if there was an economic relationship that we could create isn't it better that our digital brain is smarter than these other ones and that we make it as cheap as possible if you ask that question a lot of people would say gosh

that's a Nuance question it's not it's neither an easy no or an easy yes but on the margins I'll I would say yes knowing that there are these impacts give you a different example it takes all this energy to build the data centers why does it cost so much it's not that the let's just say you wanted to use solar panels is it that the solar panels are expensive no is it that the ability to do the interconnects are expensive no it's that building that facility had a multi-year environmental impact study um lawsuits all kinds

of indirection and misdirection from all of these independent actors who believed that they were pursuing their own priorities and there was no release valve that said I appreciate and respect the smelt that you're trying to protect or the land grous but this is bigger than that we need to make sure we maintain our technical superiority that data center is going to be used by the NSA to protect America so it needs to go up in 9 months no off or buts right now we don't have the ability to say that or if we do it's

not clear who should say it and so all of this time costs money all of this complexity costs money and the output are practical costs of building these things that are just two orders of magnitude bigger than our competitors we're not going to use the word Revival but it does seem true that millions of Americans simultaneously are coming to the conclusion that buying things online and going on vacation may not be the Su tootal purpose of life maybe there's something more and if you're one of those people who's beginning to ask questions what else is

there one of those people who's become suddenly very interested in God and having a relationship with God then we cannot recommend an app called hallow enough personally recommend it it's a frequent topic of conversation in my house hallow is the number one Prayer app in the world it offers thousands of guided prayers meditations music music options Gregorian chance the Bible in a year it's amazing what's on there it's great hall is fantastic it's very easy to use you build a routine you can join groups of worshippers set goals tailor the whole experience to your exact

spiritual needs it really works most apps people get excited about then stop using them hallo people keep using it because it's great we recently interviewed the founder and CEO of hallow and that conversation left us more convinced than ever that this will never be become a Godless Society because people won't let that happen people need God hallow can help connect you with god with the March for Life approaching it's a perfect time to download the Hallow app to unlock a vast array of prayers for pregnant mothers The Unborn civil leaders and many others in need

of prayer because prayer actually works head over to hall.com Tucker get 3 months free hallow it's awesome I wonder though if um just the basic economics of AI just force change for example the power draw for AI I was hearing about it I was it an AI Center in another country three days ago and they were saying they're not exactly sure um you know what it's going to take to run one but it could be 10x normal data center which is that was amazing to me so how do you power that exactly so you have

these competing imperatives you've got the climate agenda versus AI which is clearly the future of the economy of California for example yeah can I just say okay I have to go on a small di try please please do I'm trying to evoke one the there is nothing that the Western countries can do that will equate in any way shape or form the impact of what China and India decides to do we do not live in small bubbles there is no glass bubble that sits on top of the United States right we all share an ecology

that ecology is extremely complicated and nuanced and it's a global one and the reality is that India and China collectively together have way more impact than what you and I are going to do by becoming vegans impact on the climate on the environment is that what you're yeah oh I've noticed yes so I think the reason why for example like we have again so we have lost so much ground the California wildfires are an example example that that lays us be we should have 50% of the American population on solar panels and Battery walls today

the reason it's nice to have that you do it for climate change but the reason is resilience the reason is so that you can power yourself in moments of Calamity the reason is so that you can make sure that you can take care of your family cook food yeah you know desalinate water whatever it is that you need to do the prepper approached energy I'm with you it's just like the Practical reality totally agree and instead we make it this sort of like moral blanket that you have to wrap yourself in exctly everybody then takes

a view and all it does is progress so I guess what I'm saying is we spend way too much time getting distracted on Fringe ideas and we need to recalibrate we need to be and we need to remain the most singular muscular power in the world which comes from economic and Military Supremacy which comes from only one thing technical Supremacy so you have to find a way of enabling those 50,000 Michael Jordans that exist in America to cook let them cook that's what you need to do I wonder if the structure of silicon Val or

or can I give you different example yeah of course sorry this my last one um do you you know one of the big in AI in robotics yeah and just to double click into a robot a robot moves through these things called actuators okay and one of the things that actuators needs one of the ways that they they generate mechanical motion 3D planer mechanical motion is through the use of magnets permanent magnets and permanent magnets are different than the ones you and I play with or what our kids play with they are made from these

things called rare earth metals yes and and rare Earths are a misnomer they are not rare but they are abundantly available in the earth there is an incredible supply of rare Earths in California you could not for the life of you get a permit in California no matter how clean how green to mine those materials to make sure that we could make magnets so that we could make the robots so that we maintained our technical SU right that's how that decision I think should get made we want technical Supremacy in the next 5 to 10

years there's going to be a huge wave in robotics America needs to be at the Forefront America needs to make them we need to understand how to program them our robots need to be smarter so there's an AI track right there's a mechanical engineering track okay well there's a mining track let's get the materials let's make sure that we are beholden to nobody so that we can make them by the way these are all great paying jobs if you were able to actually get them permitted and when push comes to shove when it's like yeah

get the rare Earths out of the ground and make the permanent magnets can't do it why you're going to spend 13 years in permitting hell in California to try to get that done so and I know this the reason I know this is that uh I started a business to make sure that China does not have access to the only supply of rare Earths and I initially tried to do it in California impossible I invested in one business that actually had an old mind that we were able to get back online through a bank bankruptcy

process and blah blah blah but it's not nearly enough so I went to India and I was able to get a deal done with the Indian government and what they were able to see was the Strategic rationale of making sure we had access to not only the rare Earths but to also to make sure that there were subsidies so that they would compete on the global stage cheaper than China and now I can bring them back into the United States to make these magnets would I like to do that in America yes can I impossible

I'd be sitting around twiddling my thumbs for a decade the guys in India did that deal with me in less than 18 months they understand there's an escalation point where they'll sit down and say jth what do you need what makes sense and I say well sir here's what we're trying to do here's why it's important here's why having a global supply chain that's independent of China is just important it's competitive it's good for everybody they're like okay great X Y and Z do the following three things build a plant over there we'll make sure

that we support you here we just go into a morass and die I mean can we generate do we have the hardware to generate the electricity necessary to remain dominant yes yes so the the other crazy thing about that Biden EO is why do you have like why couldn't you have just stopped the EO at that first paragraph because it wouldn't con include the control Provisions which are the whole point of it we get we control your behavior we give you something but then we're in charge we're in charge we have more G gas and

oil in the United States I don't know if you saw this Tucker but there was a piece of data that came out this week but our Reliance on foreign oil is almost entirely gone oh yeah meaning like almost like to where we don't even need to buy it anymore not just that we make more than we import but where the Imports will soon go to zero yes that's an incredible statement about the energy independence of America it's the single most obvious way to by the way to guarantee peace well yeah if you're not fighting over

that critical resource it's going to be very unlikely you're going to go to war which if you look past the last four or five year four or five Wars the trillions of dollars and the hundreds of thousands of American lives what were they all about oil and now you know we have the ability to power those data centers so should data centers be built in a fair predictable way on Federal Land yeah because it feeds the technical Supremacy we all need now by the way there is a conversation to be had is okay great when

you have all this economic abundance how do you share it more I get that right but at least you're in a position to have the conversation that yeah that is jumping ahead so back to this though but like you know if you're able to build these things I think what Biden should have done is just say Hey listen folks do your best get the energy because it exists use nck gas use oil and we will figure it out after we've won that feels like leadership right but he can't do that because he's surrounded by people

who have already said no hydrocarbons period so and it's but it's not rooted in any reality no I'm aware I'm aware it's just it's rooted in moral grandstanding oh I've noticed but I just think that we're we're I mean if you've got mandates for Net Zero or mandates for no hydrocarbons mandates for EVS and the this economic imperative around AI I just don't and people like air conditioning I just don't think we're going to have enough electricity unless there's act Hardware built like really soon it's I it's incredible that you mentioned air conditioning so back

to sort of one of these back to one of these ways where I was like you know after 2022 how can I just get back to basics and do the things that I do well one of the projects that I started with this incredible mechanical engineer was we set out to rebuild the air conditioner yeah good um and when you look at air conditioners the heat transfer mechanisms can be made much much more efficient and you don't have to use as horrible coolants um and so we have have um a working version now it's like

our second prototype we're probably two years away from getting something working but when that works by the way we've started a process to figure out how do we sell it but this is again Tucker it's like if I tried to sell it to a home the number of people that want to touch that thing oh I know it will take me an extra $150 million and an extra extra 150 it'll take 150 million to build it it'll take an extra 50 million and an extra seven years to comply with code yeah what like what is

it that I'm supposed to do and by the way not to be like pedantic but those rules were never passed by the Congress I don't think those rules were passed by people even to give them the benefit of the doubt by one degree removed folks that even have an understanding of like physics no well of course not of course not so there was probably a very smart capable lawyer representing some smart organization who knew that this was something that they could write in to slow people down but what people need to understand is it again

it just slows down our ability to remain number one but where does this I I think you're exactly right I think you described it very nicely but I'm still baffled by the motive why would people in a country as great as ours want to wreck the country where does that come from I don't think that they want to wreck the country as much as I think that they have lost the global context I don't think they understand that we are in an existential risk of no longer being number one and I think that they also

don't understand the implications if we are not number one you need to just look at the UK if you want to have a very simple and visible picture of a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant Nation completely losing itself totally losing the economic War losing the military war losing the technology war and fighting a fringe issue War you need to just look there and people should ask themselves is that is that what we aspire to I'd rather live in Pakistan than live in the UK I'm being serious I think it's the most depressing country on the planet for

the reasons you just described there's something about decline that's that's it's it's hard to it's hard to describe but when you're there you feel it Terri oh it's sold it's so much worse you're you're much better off to your point being in a developing Nation on the come up than you are being than you are being in a there are over 200,000 Brits in UAE right now right in UAE which they formerly controlled until not that long ago and now there's a massive outflow they're far more Brits in the Emirates than there are Emirates in

Britain so so the the thing that we need to do I I think as a western set of Nations is we need to understand and agree on the fact that governance over this last decade has totally and miserably failed by focusing on these Fringe issues and by losing sight of these Global priorities I'll give you a different example at the end of the global financial crisis Canada emerged as the healthiest G7 country out of all of us they were doing phenomenally well low de to GDP phenomenal growth and then over those intervening 17 years they

focused on all kinds of Fringe issues rampant open immigration poor allocation of risk Capital inside of inside of CA Canada um they've allowed this incredible flight of human capital to the United States oh yeah and now today if Canada were to join the United States it would be poorer than Alabama on a per basis oh yeah and much more depressing so what has happened in Canada there's a Vibe shift when countries decline it's not simply a matter of GDP moving in the wrong direction it's the spirit Spirit of the country is palpably different and sad

I mean it's why so many Canadians accept their government's invitation to kill them through the Maes program their suicide rate is insane why is that that's not a measure a sign of health or Vigor or ascendence that's a sign of you know terminal decline mhm it's like shocking you're from there when you go back what does it feel like you know my my dad passed away 10 years ago my mom now comes to see us so I rarely go back actually I'm going to be back in February for a little bit um I've always felt

like a fish out of water in Canada yeah I've loved it for many reasons I think that it had had some principles back then that I think are very legitimate and I think should exist in the United States the most important being a capped cost of higher education I I I spent $112,000 a year to get an electrical engineering degree from a place called the University of watero which globally is as good frankly better than MIT if I had to be in the United States and if I had gotten inm which I probably would not

have but had I been able to I'd be1 or $200,000 in debt and so had I not had this lottery ticket for me pay off with an IPO and working at Facebook I don't know where I would be today that's crazy so there are things that Canada I think and we should acknowledge that does really right that is probably the most important thing that it does right and I think the idea of a state sponsored healthare system it's implemented horribly poorly but there are elements of that where I think um especially around sort of capped

costs which I think are important meaning you know in the United States a healthcare CEO was telling me when you look at inside of an EMR system the electronic medical care system let's say tucker you were a doctor and you did a knee surgery you would have 100 different prices attached to you depending on the plan depending on the insurer that's dumb you are one person those are one set of hands that's one surgery it's one quality the idea that one person is lucky enough to pay $1,000 deductible and the other person has to pay

50,000 is an egregious market failure it's just egregious so Tucker Carlson the best knee surgeon in America if he charges 2,000 then he charges 2,000 for everybody that seems fair it does seem fair it seems much more efficient I just can't um now everything else in Canada is broken I think but those two ideas well their Healthcare System is a disaster the implementation then of the of the system so my question is you know it's like one of those things that I'm not against it in theory but I can't think of I mean National Health

System doesn't work Canadian Healthcare System doesn't work I mean is there a working National healthare system yes I think that you need to have competition I think you need to have there's a hybrid that the United States could Implement that is not NHS or the Canadian system but it's not just a pure free market freefor all it's a little bit in between and let me describe what the in between parts are Medicare is an incredibly important insurance program in the United States I think it stands to reason that Medicare should have its own PBM if

Medicare was able to negotiate you know an extremely aggressive price for drugs it sets the boundary for what is allowable for everybody else and for folks that are 65 and older then now they have a very viable alternative to use that it also creates transparency around the variation in pricing number one number two there needs to be a way where a private insurer can build up some credit for doing things today that may only pay off for that employee in the future when he's no longer an employee so for example you worked at Fox should

the fox insurance program have put you on a Statin I'm making this up have put you on a Statin in your early 4S to help you manage your I'm not saying you have Rising cholesterol but you know if you had that because in 10 or 15 years from now it would help um a potential Cardiac Arrest or heart attack yeah a lot of the companies that are faced with this decision today say we're not going to do that because you may not be an employee in 15 years so why am I paying now for something

where I get the benefit then but that's a simple Healthcare economics Market solution we should have those we should give private insurers incentives to you know in some cases maybe the right thing to do is to put people on OIC and munaro do the work now I understand that that employee may be retired by the time that you know they they may need that but it was the right thing to do for that person for having worked for you for 15 or 20 years another thing with AI today you can read all of these insurance

plans and you should have a standard way of knowing that a condition is going to get approved or not before it starts and that needs to be auditable it cannot be where you need like a PhD and five different people to read these insurance plans and then all of a sudden a random person can make an economic decision to say no that's also where you know simple Tech technology can get built to build very strict guard rails what is approved what is not approved have it be known have it be auditable be in a log

so that you know people can just simply escalate hey that person got his approved and mine was dinged why so there's all these little things to like make the system better it needs to be more open you need to have for example a different on the case of open it is highly unlikely that you've ever tried to get all of your Healthcare data impossible now you would say chath why would I need that well maybe there's an AI agent that can actually be your doctor in your pocket that just works for Tucker you know it's

the person that is constantly reading my every interaction with the healthare system to tell me what they think it's my own second opinion that's not a bad idea that's a very lowcost thing to do except you can't get the data why can't you get the data because there's federal regulations and most people don't listen to them Federal Regulations tefa says you have to be able to download your data these companies make it very hard because they know the more open it becomes it induces competition exactly competition that will show up will probably be infinitely better

so I'm going to do everything I can to block it and you know the federal and state governments don't do enough in America we do things a little differently and we always have when the British said hey we're going to tax your favorite morning beverage the revolution AR Sons of Liberty said no and they poured the entire shipment of tea into Boston Harbor and created a new country a country based on personal choice and freedom well 251 years later it is time to throw throw something else overboard your overpriced big Wireless contract you don't need

it do you need to pay $100 a month just to get a free phone I don't think so the cell phone company we use Pure Talk says no to all of this inflated price prices the BS the contracts you can't understand and instead gives you service that you need that you actually need with pure talk it's super straight forward you get unlimited talk text 25 gigs of data mobile hotspot at a fraction of the price and with a qualifying plan of just $45 a month they'll throw a free Samsung Galaxy your way so you get

everything and you know exactly what it is it's not designed to deceive you we strongly recommend it Pure Talk provides the same coverage as the other guys it's just a lot more affordable and a lot more straightforward you can find out for yourself visit Pur talk.com Tucker make the switch today Pur talk America's Wireless company so you said AI can be used to make sense of you know like the talo of of health insurance regulations what um looking down the next 5 years you know name three or four innovations that you're pretty certain we're going

to see life enhance from AI I so I I start companies yeah but when I don't see something that I think I can start right away and there's somebody that's a little bit in the lead I'll just invest and I'll just take a large piece so that I can help guide them one of those businesses where I'm the largest shareholder has been working on breast cancer surgery and um today across America for every 10 women that go and get diagnosed with breast cancer three of the surgeries are leave cancer behind ouch and the way that

it works is you go in for what's called so there's two different kinds of breast cancer surgery there's a lumpectomy which is take out the lump or a mastectomy which is take out the entire breast and in the lumpectomy you have to have you visualize with your own eyes whether you think most of the cancer is gone you close up the woman and you take that sample you give it to a pathologist and typically between 7 and 11 days which is how long it takes because they're clogged up and there's backlog they'll look under a

microscope and visually inspect and say actually sorry 30% of the time they say you left some cancer behind so now that woman has to those three women have to go back they get another surgery but again 30% error rate they do it again and then one of those women gets ding so now one woman has had three breast cancer surgeries oh that is happening today now if you go to a really really good teaching hospital that error rate will be 5% because the docks are incredible if you go to an overly zealous doctor that error

rate will also be low but you'll come in for a lumpectomy you'll end up with a myectomy kind of a thing they'll just take out so much of that and that creates a a disfiguration so this company basically says hold on a second I'll just use AI I'll look right down to the granular microscopic level I'll take an extremely highres picture my brain will be trained on only this one task is there cancer is there no cancer so we built it and it's in a bunch of the leading hospitals in America but we had to

file with the FDA to be allowed to tell the doctor right so I just want to be clear like we know we can see it and so we ran a 18-month trial you know cost us 10 or 15 million bucks and we met our endpoint in November we can now absolutely be sure that the cancer was removed or not removed now we have to package all of that up we've filed it with the FDA we've been will get approval by June and then we'll be able to sell meaning sell this software upgrade so that essentially

in the operating room instead of having to wait for the pathologist 7 to 11 days later the doctor will do the lumpectomy put it in the machine and instantly you'll say tucker you need to take out a little bit more the margins are not right Tucker perfect job close her up that's using AI while the patient is sedated yeah wow that is using AI and that can get breast cancer surgeries to be so prolifically good that the error rate goes to zero the impact on the quality of life of those women and then by an

extension their families their kids that have to deal with that stress as well can go away so that's a profound impact of AI that you're going to see in the next year we could quibble that this should have been faster could have cost a lot less money meaning it cost me the same amount of money to get this trial done as it cost that Chinese company to build a digital brain that's as good as open AI or Facebook that's crazy but whatever okay put a pin in it we did it we'll file and we'll move

forward you know we play the rules that are on the field even if the rules make no sense and there's hard to tell anybody change the rules but it is what it is that's an example Elon published some data yesterday which is incredibly profound which is um he has an AI brain inside of the Tesla and the ability to drive safely on the highway became 7 and a2x better than his previous version and his previous version was already 10 times better than a normal car which means when you get on the highway you engage FSD

it's called his version of autopilot for the car and it was already 10 times better now it's 7 times better than that 10 times to not get into an accident so the idea about using AI now to just eliminate all the unnecessary deaths that happen because of traffic mishaps there's the potential where that goes to zero um that's today as well again his issue isn't technological his issue is going to be regulatory at what speed will people be able to be comfortable letting him take people from point A to point B um and yet a

different example there are all of these um small airplane companies they're called evall so it's not not a plane not a helicopter but it's kind of this hybrid thing in between and they have this autopilot where it's like taking off with in a in a in a no pilot configuration piloting it in the air which is much simp by the way than driving on the ground and then landing and you have the ability to now just create a level of Transportation which increases GDP and that is an AI brain that's calculating all the system variables

around itself being able to fly safely getting from point A to point B you don't have to drive seven hours it's a 40 minute hop skip and a jump now so now go and do your job and come back all of these things are happening right now we are gated on the regulatory machine which are unfortunately not filled with enough actual technologists it's mostly bureaucrats teaching them getting them comfortable that you know what do we intend with all of this we intend of reversing this thought lost decade we just want to get to work and

build a thing so that America kicks us David saaks your co-host is now the aisar also crypto amazing what is amazing and I'll just add he is an amazing human being he really is like he is a guy I agree I had to teach saxs how to hug properly how did it can can you show me how you did that you know saak saak was a side hugger which I I I can't I can see that it's like I'm not a side hugger yeah you're GNA give me a hug and we've been you know really

really close friends for 20 years now so I was like bro learn to learn to hug and we have all of these videos where like over the course of like four years you know I had to take his arm and teach how you did video training oh yeah like I had to teach him how to put no with him and me you know his wife would take a video it's like Sak you got to put your arm this way and then he's like okay now you have to you know put your head over here he

is he is a brilliant guy so you taught Sachs how to hug yeah I mean he he taught me everything else but I I I taught him out a hug so your show um Allin I did it last year I did it because David asked me um and I love David I had no sense of its penetration I had no idea I'm not in business I'm not in technology you know I drive a stick shift I'm kind of the opposite of that and I just didn't realize um Everybody watches it's unbelievable it's unbelievable I heard

from people I hadn't seen since early childhood um I heard from every I was I was stunned by it so what's that like for you you're obviously well known in Silicon Valley Facebook um and your investment business but I mean it's a much larger valy so what what has that been like um I mean I think it's it's made me much cooler for my older kids my teenagers you know they use these words which I just can't stand but they're like you know if somebody comes up and says hi and we take a picture they're

like Dad that was some good RZ or you know they'll be like yeah that was okay good Aura Dad good Aura uh and so we make fun of it l you know I will turn to them and I'll be like in the car I'll be like guys shut up you know they'll be making a lot of noise they're like why and then I'll turn them because I'm a very important podcaster uh so we get you expect that when you so like most of the people on the podcast maybe all are you know don't need to

be doing podcasts you're not doing it for the money obviously so this starts as like for fun or why did you how did you end up doing that it actually be started because our poker game me Sachs jcal freeberg the four co-hosts we were four of the kind of like the Reg regular everyday players when the co shelter in place happened we weren't allowed to go out and so we started to zoom the each other and then we just started to record and then we just threw it up on YouTube because we would you know

we would ask freeberg to teach us about the disease and the science of it all then you know we would all take turns riffing on how frustrated we were at Nome uh and then we would kind of post it and then it just took on a a life of its own um and yeah fast forward four years I mean we've done you know an episode a week um I think it had a we got very lucky because it happened in a moment I think you and Joe Rogan are two of the more leading examples of

this but um the traditional media is totally dead yes there was a stat today the Washington Post traffic in the last four years has gone from 20 a half million viewers to three isn't that incredible 20 a half million monthly view monthly users to 3 million so the question is in that vacuum it's not as if the American population shrank it's grown no what is the sense making or news stopped happening actually much more is happening or did news yeah exactly more news is happening so I think it's important to rebuild the sense making and

I think we accidentally found ourselves making sense of things that are happening to people like explain this technology thing explain this business thing explain this political thing not not necessarily so deeply but connecting the dots so that you could have a slightly better worldview and I think that that's been helpful for people it's been really fun for me well apparently uh and then Trump comes on I mean he is he is really incredible you know I didn't know what to expect and then David and I threw a fundraiser form I mean I think part of

where all of this started was David called me in June so actually taking a step back he and I had always been active in politics he was a you know died he was he was a tried and true conservative yes from the beginning I was a little bit more promiscuous I didn't really understand how to make my political beliefs fit into one of these vessels but for the most part in the last few years like everybody else I got lulled into buying into a lot of the democratic lines and I was a large donor to

the Democrats and it all started to unravel for me in 2020 because I didn't understand covid then I got the you know vaccine only to realize that it was you know not a vaccine and I was really upset my couple of my kids really struggled with what happened to them by not being able to go to school and I was like why hasn't the government intervened and gotten my kids back in school um all of these things just made me super frustrated so I started to question maybe I wasn't seeing things right and maybe I

was you know reacting more with my ego and the answer was yeah actually like you know the Democrats are extremely charming and they can play a very sophisticated game where they make you feel exclusive oh for sure and that's part of the shtick of how they get money from you I mean I remember and I would tell these stories as a point of Pride now I tell it as a warning to myself I was sitting at dinner with Obama the day of brexit and you know that very famous kind of moment where like you know

Andrew C passes that piece of paper to George Bush there was a version of that moment obviously much less important but where somebody summer of 16 yeah where somebody like passes a note to Obama and he goes oh my this was like we were in San Francisco and it was like at 8:00 or 9:00 p.m. and he's like oh wow the UK just voted to leave so I I remember where I was that day but those kinds of moments made me feel that maybe I was doing the right thing right and then all of my

businesses just kept running up against these brick walls over and over and over again every time I tried to do something good that I thought was valuable it would bump up against all of this stupid regulation and slowed back and and every time I looked at who they were they were all supposedly on the same team that I was in so I said forget this I have to start from first principles so in 2023 and uh saak and I decided we're going to start throwing fundraisers for a whole variety of candidates so the first one

was at his house we threw a fundraiser for RFK we got to meet Bobby it was exhilarating and you know for the first time you had this person speaking truth to power then at my house we threw a fundraiser for Vi David and I did that together and then David called me and said let's do a fundraiser for Trump and I said absolutely and I think that that started the did you check with your wife first that's quite a statement she's very supportive yeah you know my my you know look my wife um she's in

the Life Sciences business um but you know she always been like you have to make these decisions not from how other people will perceive you but what do you feel and she's like explain to me Bobby Kennedy explain to me Viv explain to me Donald Trump in your own words that isn't tied to well here's what other people will think of me if I do this and then when I did that she was like okay let's do it let's do it and I mean Trump is unbelievably true but at the time just for cuz I

sort of understand the the cultural context in it was very it was a very tough moment to kind of ballsy it was very ballsy people I got the amount of like hate text messages I should have kept some of them they're probably still in my phone actually um but people were very mad and part of I think why they were mad as they were afraid meaning there was a lie that Biden was sharp as attack and myself and David had not really dismantled the LIE Beyond just saying it looks like a lie and I think

that they were worried that it would create I think what Peter Teal calls this which I really agree with is a preference Cascade yes that's right you know like Peter is a genius but he is on an island many years ahead of the rest of us then there are other people you know like me and David to some degree who are also sort of like we can kind of see the patterns not nearly as fast as a Peter but then we do a decent job of translating it for other folks so I think people were

afraid if these guys Translate their interactions with Donald Trump into the truth it's going to tip a lot of people and they were right because when Trump came wow I mean like had you met him before by the way he had called me so I'd had a telephone conversation so I I knew what he was like on the phone that's when I knew I'd made a mistake before about like believing what the Press was saying that's where I went back and I looked at the Charlottesville press conference and I looked at all of them again

after my phone call when the president called me I was like hold on a second this man was incredibly Charming polite kind he just like he but what I honestly thought Tucker I called my wife I said he was raised by really good parents that's what I said to them my that's what I said to my wife CU you can tell in your kids you know like when you see kids around and and there are some they are polite they're kind [Music] I don't want to call them but are these buildings of a human being

that you need to be taught by your parents he was taught and I have tremendous respect for that so then when I saw him at David's house I mean it's it's like it's it's pretty incredible like it's like a it's a larger than life figure um and he's extemporaneous he talks for an hour and a half he's going all over the place he's doing the The Weave you know it's incredible um and so I was and he's hilarious too he's very funny yes which is really hard to be actually yes and uh and so I

walked away thinking wow I had got it it totally wrong and I was lied to and I believed at a very superficial level what the mainstream media was saying and then I did even more research you know I read the lawsuits and it was just the the amount of contortion that people were going through to try to prevent this man from getting into Power made me want him to be in power even more because I thought they're afraid of something that's something they're not going to say out loud but that is the thing that we

need to exercise from the US government yes that that thing that they want to protect niely put that's right it's not even now clear exactly it's dis it's disclosure of some kind they fear being you know revealed but yeah that's as far as and then and then you know different from his first time around the caliber of the people around him it's like uh it's like the 92 Barcelona you know dream team as far as I can tell I mean like my gosh like you get Elon you get Vic you get RFK you get Tulsi

you get all of these people you know Howard lutnick David saaks David saaks Scott bassent this is this is amazing I want to tell you about an amazing documentary series from our friend Shawn stone called All the President's Men the conspiracy against trump it is a series of interviews with people at the very heart of the first Trump term many of whom are close to the heart of the second Trump term this is their stories about what permanent Washington tried to do to them in many cases send them to prison for the crime of supporting

Donald Trump their words have never been more relevant than they are now Steve Bannon cash Patel I'm in there even All the President's Men the conspiracy against against Trump and you will find it only on TCN tuckercarlson.com highly recommend it so what is the view I remember that I remember vividly the day that you all had that fundraiser for Trump and thinking this is a I never thought I would live to see this this is like a major change major major change was there a major change in attitudes in Silicon Valley toward Trump after that

after that yeah because it gave permission um you know David is very um complimentary to me in that because I was a little bit more promiscuous and not necessarily just a straight Hardline Republican yep it it was it was a little bit more valuable I think for that cohort of people because they could kind of say oh well if it's you know jamath said it oh then yeah sure but I think that he probably took a lot of heat as well and more than that what he did was he then said you know I'm really

going to put my foot on the gas here and he's great at this which is just like I'm going to tip the preference Cascade so then he went to the Republican convention he spoke he you know he did a lot um and his wife did a lot there're that's a real Dynamic power couple those two and then Mark Andre came out and then andreon came out um and it was funny like the andrees thing was so a little bit interesting I don't think the full detail so I'm just speculating but you know it did turn

out that his partner also gave like 50 or 100 million bucks to comma which I suspect then that Mark probably gave 50 or 100 million to to trump it looked like they were splitting it yeah yeah um but um so what was it like though living there living in in you know among the people you work with and have worked with like how did people oh there there was a initial part where people do this you know yeah it's like the and I felt that cuz I'm very sensitive to that yes you know um and

I my feelings get hurt yes and I get super annoyed by it um you know I think you call it the private Equity wives for me it was like the private Equity husbands as well you know they all that's really shameful that they all they all just like kind of like a scowl and then after the election it was more like a and I'm like what changed well what it that's I've felt that across the country what is how would you describe that I think a lot of people uh um are not necessarily fighting an

a moral or ideological battle Tucker I think people are just trying to get from one day to the next day for sure and and I respect that um at first I was hurt by it because I didn't understand it and I thought it again goes back to oh I'm worthless like is there something about me is that why you're rejecting me and I realize has nothing to do with me this person is just today is a day tomorrow is a day and um they're not fighting these battles doesn't make them better nor worse it's just

a different for me I'm caught up in my own head about having to do something a little bit more ideological uh and morally rooted because I need that so that I feel like there's purpose of course not everybody's built that way and I wasn't built that way well people are distracted by their day-to-day concerns also and I think that that's very fair so you know I kind of leave it to them as what they are it's I think it's good that their minds are open and their eyes are open so the the way that this

is going to be really tested now is what's happening in California there if you look at the Palisades which is an incredibly affluent area yeah beautiful place beautiful place and has just been decimated and several of my very good friends lost their homes there they were tried and true Democrats it didn't matter what the candidate's name was beside the box in the ballot they checked it and they moved on and now the real test for them is what do they do will they look through the label and actually look at the policies and ask did

these help or hurt me all of these things that I give money to all these Nos and nonprofits did they help or hurt me California has a $322 billion a year budget do do I as a taxpayer who pay some of the highest taxes in the nation have a right to ask where that money is being spent and if the answer to all those questions is it doesn't matter check the box then we deserve what we get in California but it can be much better because today the state is totally broken we have lost the

script we don't prioritize California's economic Supremacy nor its technological Supremacy that is a huge mistake when you look at the number of companies that have left the state Oracle Tesla Chevron I mean this is not like just Fringe businesses no these are the businesses that matter and they're voting with their feet I mean it does feel like the The Tipping Point is here though I mean you said that we're I would not underestimate the Democratic machine it's a cartel that runs that and Gavin Nome is extremely charismatic M and he is able to convince people

of things that are just not true um and so he is fighting for his political life he definitely wants to be on the national stage and so the real question is is he able to convince enough people that this was the environment and that these winds came out of nowhere or will it be laid bare at his feet that it was just a lack of skill intellectual rigor and distraction and negligence and incompetence that caused this fire I mean I think you make a pretty strong case for the latter you know you know I I

found that there were three bills that started in the legislature that were either approved by the legislature and were then vetoed by Nome or were then pulled down by the legislature itself the again this is like Democrats on Democrat violence to just give a waiver to all of these local municipalities to go and clear the brush just that clear the brush now would that have stopped the fire no I get that it wouldn't have stopped the fire but you know the the intensity of a fire is directly proportional to the energy load that you give

it to the fuel of course so take away some of the fuel and the fire will be less and if can't even admit that plain truth this is what I mean by if we're going to continue to just lie to ourselves because we care so much about this failed ideology then then California is going to just continue to just degrade but there's a point I mean you see the same thing in New York City where if the you know the engines of the economy leave because it is a you know a country with 50 States

you know there's a point where the math doesn't work and it things just decline so quickly that it's hard to recover the the thing it is true but the thing that is important to keep in mind about California is sometimes you get lucky and we have to acknowledge our luck but not Fritter it away specifically in California there is a critical mass of these 50,000 Michael Jordan Engineers yes you cannot rebuild Silicon Valley by casting it to the Four Winds some people go to prioria Illinois some people end up in Boston some are in Miami

some are in Las Vegas some are in Austin all fine and good but that is not the place or the way to create the technical vibrancy we need to generate technical Supremacy you need these people close and around you so that they're pollinating from each other course and this is again where why hasn't the state realized that that is an incredibly critical resource well at this point with you know the decline of a and the entertainment business in Aerospace I I don't really know what drives the economy of California other than technology well right now

if you look at California's employment B employment the employment picture is quite scary because it is government jobs that are convoluting how healthy the actual state is right so if you take away the government jobs but at the end of the day what do government bureaucrats do they want to govern how do they do that they're going to legislate or they're going to regulate where is that felt it's felt on Private Industry and private citizens but eventually at the limit the amount of Regulation goes to infinity and they're legislating themselves into Oblivion right nobody will

be there to legislate to be governed by all of this Insanity because everybody will leave and first the people that leave are the people that can leave then the people that leave are the people that have to leave and we're in the first part it's clear the people you know people who've left many many many have you thought about it yeah I mean look my again tell you in terms of my poker game half of that half of those people that have been my lifelong friends for 20 years have left half where' they go Austin

um Miami Texas and Florida yeah yeah Texas and Florida uh and it's just so frustrating and they've left because they can't build things the taxes were like secondary one of my friends left because um you know one of their children went through you know uh a bit of an identity crisis if you want to call it that and yes uh and the police showed up and wanted to you know take the kid away um so you know so that the kid could go through like a transition that the kid ultimately decided they didn't want to

go through um the police showed up yeah yeah that's the laot in California so like encourage it I'm not sure if it's to encourage it but I I my understanding of the way this works is if you if you as a child have these issues um and you escalate that um there's a requirement for the school to basically call Child Protective Services who may or may not call the police who may or may not come to your house and try to take the kid away you know so so they're not your children in California is

basically what they're saying well they're your children to the point where the government believes that they know better man that's just I mean any government that presumes to know better than parents um is an out ofc control scary government I mean look I I I try to think of myself as a good parent I try to do the best I can do I make mistakes yeah sure but am I generally more you know better for my kids than some other random adult also yeah yeah strongly right and so like the idea that just some random

person in an office somewhere can read some piece of paper and all of a sudden take your kids away that's very scary it's very scary it makes me feel very insecure that idea what's keeping you there um I'm very stubborn and I feel very grateful I feel very grateful to America I feel very grateful to California um it gave me a path that I would not have had anywhere else and so I have a responsibility to stay and fix it um good for you yeah I feel guilty that I left um because it's the prettiest

State I mean nothing comes close so to get driven out of where you grew up and where your ancestors lived is pretty it's bitter but I did it um so does it change does a state change it's a one party State clearly it ites it's enormously corrupt as you know and wasteful and now it's fallen down on its most basic obligation which is to keep your house from burning down exactly so does that Force change politically I think people need to force the change now uh it has to force change people have to understand that

these labels mean nothing meaning yeah you could have the smartest person in the world and the dumbest person in the world you cannot vote for the dumbest person in the world just because the label beside them is something something you've been told is wrong exactly that is just the the height of stupidity it's not what you're allowed to do as an adult adults aren't allowed to do that your kids can do that right and you're supposed to teach your kids that that's not how you make decisions when you're an adult on the basis of labels

brands it's it's so stupid it's childish um there are some really competent people that are in that state that will try now to come out of the woodwork to do the right thing to deregulate California California has 60,000 regulations on the books it was 10,000 less than a decade ago go back to 10,000 go to 5,000 what are we afraid of Are We afraid of the breast cancer thing that could get get to Market faster are you afraid that elon's you know autopilot can now save people's lives more are you afraid that you know we

can catch rockets and then send them back to the stars and the heavens and Mars why is that bad well the point of Regulation is to um is to encourage guarantee uh health and safety and growing up in California it was a healthy state it was the healthiest State as far as I could tell and it was this it was very safe State and it's neither one of those things it's one of the least healthy States actually there's more poverty in California than any state autism rates are the highest in the country um and it's

dangerous in a lot of ways so like it's not working I guess that's what I would say the regulations point it's not working so how long do you know well-healed Democratic voters need to see their state run over need to see their lives ruined and now their kids lives ruined and maybe this is the thing that actually well you tell me you live among them like do you see the change coming um so not where I live because the only the only thing that the only damage that has ever happened in Silicon Valley is economic

damage but then it's wred itself right and so people just go and move along blindly in the Orthodoxy it's only when your business is at risk where you'll flip so you know you've seen kind of like meta have a total you know come to Jesus moment yeah what's that have you talk to Zuckerberg about it no Mark and I have I you know I gave this speech at Stanford in 2016 which went pretty viral which kind of laid bare what was going on in social media and he and I have not spoken since wow yeah

well knowing him as you do and for as long as you have what do you make of his Joe Rogan appearance I think it's a calculation to manage the conditions on the field meaning what I said on the Pod is all you need to know are two things one is there's an incredible picture in uh Donald Trump's book which is a picture of Zuck sitting in the oval and by the way this is the same book which you have to get it's the book where like you know he talks about you know Trudeau's mom kind

of like casting about with the Rolling Stones and like you know casting about rolling about yeah rolling about and like you know he's like Fidel Castro's love child anyways but in that book is a picture of Zuck and it says you know Zak was the nicest guy to my face but then would you know work against me to turn over the election and you know um I've made it very clear that if he tries to do anything like that again he'll go to prison for the rest of his life that's what that's what Trump says

in the caption and then he was asked about that last week the exact same day that meta changed their their policies and he said do you think it was in response to what you said and and the president said probably so I think it's a very smart but necessary set of calculations but I think they are calculations so what are his highest values what are his first principles Zuck yep I mean I'd only be guessing um but an informed guess since you know him you know I think that he he's a well I think that

he's a very big fan of the Roman Empire if I had to translate and guess how that manifests in his day-to-day decision- making I think he thinks of things empirically meaning like as an Empire and he has an Empire you know he has Facebook WhatsApp Instagram you know uh messenger these are institutional worldwide products in the in the digital sphere he is Rome um and so I think that he cares about the propagation of that Empire probably more than he cares about any philosophical Trends per se because you know the the Empire endures if you

can you know manage the vicissitudes of Trends that's right so when the trend was under the Democrats to build a censorship machine you know you do that and then when the trend is to do the opposite you'll do the opposite but he said to me a number of times and over a number of years you know off off camera but has said you know basically I'm a kind of 70s liberal and I really believe in free speech you think that's true sure I think that that's not the question apparently not um he has you know

he controls Facebook with an iron fist he has complete voting control he has less economic participation but you know he has he has absolute power and that the justification in some ways of explaining how he made these changes now um it doesn't explain why it veered in the other direction then and I think it's important to just probably get the answer to that then you'll know where he stands you know meaning the E the economic power has ebbed and flowed but the absolute power has never changed so you know the philosophy that he believed in

then if it's the same now then the question is well why did the manifestation of that power change well he's basically said you know bullied by the National Security State I can believe that too by the way I'm sympathetic to that I mean that's got to feel like a lot of pressure when you're a young guy on the come up and a bunch of these well-healed politicos show up at your office and say you know bend the knee why don't you go yourself that's what I would say maybe that's why I'm not a billionaire but

I I it's it's like unbelievable that happens in this country it's like shocking there are there are billionaires that I've said go yourself yeah I know and they and they and they've become you know even more successful as a result so the the I mean the richest man in the world did that so what is his role in elon's role in the in the new Administration do you think I think he's the heartbeat here's what I mean by that um I've thought about this it is the most important temperature check that we are going to

um make the changes that Donald Trump wants meaning I think the president in some ways is the most powerful job but he but I think this second term he's more of a vessel in the sense that he's got all all of these great field generals who can now run the plays and of all the field generals the one that has just an incremental more degree of freedom to also communicate openly and continuously with the public as him so you'll get a sense of whether there's an arhythmia by just monitoring his X feed you'll also get

a sense of um whether there's like a you know like if the drum beat is building I think you get a sense of that from Elon as well I think he is the he's the heartbeat so do you think that elon's exfeed is a kind of pretty accurate window into what he's thinking yeah and that that's what's so powerful and this is why I think you know when you compare and contrast Zak with Elon it's I think Zak is like every other CEO and Elon is just a complete singular outlier in the sense that there

is no book that would have told you just tell tell the truth grounded in your morality from day one and just burn the boats you know that Old Cortez line right of course and people would have said what and so whatever he's felt he's shared in complete truth and cander no other CEO has ever done that and probably no one will ever will because you can't do it as a strategy and you can't implement it on day 17 or day 104 it's you either are or you're not and so he sets a way of behavior

that future CEOs should emulate but we also have to a little bit give a break and cut some slack to everybody else because they're just never going to do as good a job as him in doing that how was he seen in Silicon Valley oh he's a star but he's a kind guy like I mean you know him as well but like um this I just I think that people should know this like this is a kind he's a kind guy he's like a like he's a beautiful person he's a kind guy I don't know

what to say like has any American ever had this much power gosh meaning like the intersection of private and public industry kind of thing yeah I just I can't think of I mean of course the president has the power to launch nuclear weapons so that that Trump's all power but um but as a private citizen non a non-present I I can't think of any time in 250 years where an American has had as much power as Elon Musk has in the sense that you know he's the most successful businessman by many measures he runs the

most powerful media Outlet in the world which is X um and he has you know this mandate from the newly elected president of the United States to to change the government I mean I don't just nothing like that has ever happened that I know of yeah it's yeah I mean I guess so you know I I guess it hasn't happened why did he buy X because as a business decision it's kind of hard to justify well there's like a it happened in a moment where I think that there was the intersection of um a lot

of free speech issues and I just think like there was like some you know stuff I'm not going to get into but like personal stuff I think probably in his own life and it just like made him question like what what are these philosophies what are these ideologies and how destructive are they if we can't if we if we can't question things and talk out loud and so we all got very lucky he paid the personal this is what I mean but like like everybody can be like wow it's so easy it must be amazing

it's not so that that's like a I I would crumble under the weight of that I don't think I'm capable of that I know that about at all my God and like the price you pay the personal price you pay I couldn't do it I think it's a he's a unique person that way his capacity for pain his capacity for just just a sheer gruder like just drudgery like just it's incredible I've never seen anything I've never seen anything like it I mean I guess in this context you know I've been around two of these

incredible figures Mark I worked in the trenches with Elon I've you know seen now for 15 plus years and I when you think about those two um yeah with Elon there's just an incredible intellectual curiosity an incredible amount of ability to suffer pain and suffering and yet he's incredibly kind I don't know how how he also seems to I don't understand how he does everything how do you tweet that much run that many companies also have that many children also you know he's a gamer I guess like what like how does that work yeah I

agree like I mean as a scheduling matter I know exactly I look I got here last night ate at the Pink Elephant went to bed and I felt guilty I thought you know shouldn't I be doing more yesterday I really thought that you know and I saw my email kind of piling up and I and I used you as an excuse oh I have to be fresh for talk around good night that's what I did so you're right and then I think okay I I'm I'm operating across an Investment Portfolio and and one company that

I run very intensely how do you do that multiply by seven and all of these other I don't know how you do it I really don't know Tucker I wish that there was an answer but I also think it's not the right thing to answer in the sense that we're all going to give some glib answer and then everybody's going to try to run and copy it and I think what you forget is he is the product of 20 years of preparation he started with one company then he had two companies do you know what

I mean like so these are reps upon reps upon reps upon reps over decades and I think it's important to keep that in mind like that is a level of skill like he is demonstrating human peak level performance it's easier to observe it in maybe an athlete or something else but that's what he's demonstrating he is at the peak of human intellect that is the brain unencumbered by all the other stuff that maybe a lot of us get caught up in well that's the other thing is he's given up possessions effectively you know great idea

yeah it is I mean it's not I've never he tweeted out like like there's all these things I've never I never tell him these things but like there are things that he that's why I follow him because part of it is like I get things from him in Twitter that really profoundly affect my life so when I was going through all of that turbulence in 2022 you know he tweeted out I think it was in 2011 I can't remember when it was but he's like I've just sold all my homes and possessions and I went

back immediately I thought of that is the one thing that I was taught as a Buddhist when I was raised Buddhist you know and despite all the stuff and all the anger that I had and I never thought that Buddhism was all that effective or useful for me I C I took one lesson detach yourself from the physical world yes and I saw it and I connected that dot to myself and I said I the opposite of that it's totally true I am totally totally totally attached to the physical world verse on my phone I'm

not a great Bible scholar hardly but I do keep this verse because I I think it actually I mean it's 1 John 3 do not love this world or the things it offers you for when you love the world you not have the love of the father in you for the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure a craving for everything we see and a pride in our achievements and possessions right these are from the world and the world is fading away along with everything that people crave There You Go Christian not Buddhist but

same idea and true same idea same idea and so he tweets that out he sold all of his houses you know um he sells all of his possessions and I'm like what am I doing I'm buying more yeah I'm like oh let me take delivery of this thing and this other thing and now I have to hire people to manage the things and I'm like what am I what am I doing yes um so that helped me a lot I've never told I never told but yeah these things so he is an incredible I think

guidepost on how to clarify your own intentions if you're willing to see through it all and clarify that message that would be a thing that I think he's an in incredible Exemplar of find the thing that you care about and then just double and triple and quadruple and quintuple down on that that exactly right that is exactly right so book ends we began this conversation with your description of your I hate the word Journey but it is a journey um to like a much higher level of self-awareness and peace and you're Ending by describing you

know with admiration elon's decision to detach himself from the world even as he engages in the things that he really loves do you think that there is a greater spiritual awareness a greater hunger in Silicon Valley where it matters because of the richest people in the country um than there was you said you know no one believes in God do you think that's changing no but I think we need to make it more fashionable to be spiritual oh you don't think it's changing I don't think it's changing yet um I think that a lot of

this extreme wealth was created in people that are in their 30s some in their 20s many of them are in their 40s and I think that in over this next 10 or 15 years there's going to be a crisis of identity when they realized that you know they were playing dumb games focused on super things beyond the companies themselves right and that there's a bigger purpose right there needs to be a loyalty to Country loyalty to the state loyalty to the people around you that you don't even know not to Virtue signal but to actually

just do the hard practical work part of that is en rooted I think in a spirituality that's not there yet but I think that it will become cool again it sorry it can become cool again um I believe in God and the reason I believe in God and if I were to tell my friends in Silicon Valley the way that I would incept this idea would be purely from a scientific lens which is if you believe it is true which I think most people do that there is a finite moment in which the universe began

explain not the process but explain the moment and you cannot and it is an endless rabbit hole that if you spend your time and again when I was feeling very empty that's where I started and I you know I read all about I read about Islam I read about Christianity I read about Judaism I reread you know about Buddhism and the only explanation is God and I think that that's a way where people there can be you know they'll let their guard down because if you start a conversation about physics and cosmology and people are

very open-minded and then you go well how did it happen how did T how did T equals z happen and what does T minus one look like and their brains explode why their brains truly explode because people that are very good technologically in that way are very good at getting to explanations and they're very good at kind of like break things down I know it's used a lot now but into first principles and yes there is no first principles explanation for the world for How the Universe began there is none don't tell me about The

Big Bang Theory it doesn't work don't tell me about general relativity because it all breaks we have to make these profound assumptions in math and physics to make it all hang together because you cannot tell me what T equals z right at that moment how nobody can answer the how no and so then if you look at this entire lived world around you I don't know I just I I'm filled with this like immense gratitude and then I think it must be God and that gives me like it gives me something I didn't have that

before and so I take that I'm not trying to push that on other people but that works for me you know makes me a better husband makes me a better dad and makes me a better friend I do things now that I you know when when the fires were happening um you know my friends I just rounded Robin I just kept calling them every day to check in on them um that's a small thing right um but these are values that I had lost somewhere along the way where you know just like just calling people

caring about people um one of my lost the home I spent an entire afternoon not an entire afternoon sorry again I don't want to overplay it I spent like an hour or so going through all my Google photos clicking through and finding all the photos of him our friends so that we can make him an album no because he lost everything and yeah you get the clothes whatever but you know these picture albums you know they they mean a lot um and I was happy and I felt really like a useful good person at the

end yes I don't know that's that's I got that from believing in God and my final question is are you hopeful since we are at a moment of real change in the country are you hopeful for the future yeah I think there's we were we had a fever and that fever has broken and what has to lie in its place are examples of how all of these things that we thought we were not allowed to do when we do them actually work meaning we're actually just going to focus on Merit and get incredible people and

it'll turn out that you'll get your you know diversity wish but you're not going to get it by mandating it and forcing it down our throats right we're just going to get the best people and then the best people are just going to go and kick ass together you know we're going to get an ecology that we protect and love because we want to be out there hunting fishing camping living it skiing it whatever it is but we're going to get there because we actually manage it and take care of it and clean up all

of the you know stuff that would otherwise Burn It To The Ground so we're going to test all of this stuff and I think it's going to work and then the other thing we need to do is we need to cut down all of these things that are these little ropes that are pulling us all back meaning this is a stretch but I'll I'll use myself in this example I think I'm one of those 50,000 people that can go and RAM and jam for Team USA I can't I've been you know there are moments where

I've been really dunking on people you know if this was a basketball analogy I want to do more of that I want Team USA to kickass I just want it to be a little bit easier and so I hope that we figure out a way instead of having 60,000 little regulations and people that want to Lord over us just give us 10,000 and just trust us that we're trying to do the right thing exactly and if we don't fine trust but verify you know and if we screw up fine hold us accountable but just give

us a chance so that we can just make sure that USA team America that idea is the singular organizing function for America America not everybody's own little Pet Project right that's what that so I think that that's possible but I mean time will tell these next four years will be super critical Jam thank you [Music] thanks so it turns out that YouTube is suppressing this show on one level that's not surprising that's what they do but on another level it's shocking with everything that's going on in the world right now all the change taking place

in our economy and our politics with the war when on the cusp of fighting right now Google has decided you should have less information rather than more and that is totally wrong it's immoral what can you do about it well we could whine about it that's a waste of time we're not in charge of Google or we could find a way around it a way that you could actually get information that is true not intentionally deceptive the way to do that on YouTube we think is to subscribe to our Channel subscribe hit the little bell

icon to be notified when we upload and share this video video that way you'll have a much higher chance of hearing actual news and information so we hope that you'll do that