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hey everybody Welcome to Wonderful World of remant radio today we've got kin fish we're talking about Freemasons it's going to be an exciting program you guys stay tuned you are watching The Remnant radio a crowdfunded show where we interview pastors teachers historians and theologians from different churches and denominations my name is Joshua Lewis and this is my co-host Michael rre together we want to help you break outside of your theological Echo Chambers if you're interested in learning about history theology or the gifts of the Spirit this is the show for you hey everybody I want

to I want to let you know about the program that we've got going on today talking about the Masons I want to introduce Ken and just one moment before I do I want to remind you we're entirely crowdfunded so if you've been blessed by the ministry maybe this episode or other episodes you've watched and you're like hey it's about time I should support the channel there are links in the description you can do that there's a PayPal link or a patreon link you give a onetime gift on PayPal or you can give as low as

five bucks a month and you get access to extra content there on patreon so it helps support the channel if you give monthly it helps us produce our content our hope is to kind of resource some other people to help us you know take some media and put it on different platforms and all that good stuff so that's where your money would be going so I encourage you to do that so that we can have more of a leverage here on the social webs and whatnot the fa the book face and the Graham and all

that good stuff but uh uh additionally let me introduce you to the guys today this is kfish there in the middle that's Michael Round Tree all the way on the end uh Michael how you doing man you wna you want to int introduce your buddy Ken before we get going yeah absolutely well uh yeah love kin fish and Ken it's so exciting to have you back on the show Ken's uh been a somewhat regular fixture here on R Radio I've known Ken for uh I don't know a number of years years and years however long

that is uh and uh Ken I think maybe the first time we met was at a convergence conference back in 2017 is that right that sounds about right yes there about Jack deer introduced us anyway so K uh Ken and our friends and uh and Ken maybe you could just tell us a little bit about your ministry your ministry school and just kind of what you do well I founded orbus Ministries uh 12 years ago and we are we are a little bit of an unusual duck harder to Define maybe than some we do evangelism

but we're not purely Evangelistic we do healing but we're not purely a Healing Ministry we do Deliverance uh but we are not purely a Deliverance Ministry um and we fre people Josh can we turn that into a gif later it's already done don't do it uh we also uh we also teach and Minister prophetically but we're not purely a prophetic Ministry and we do something that's very unusual these days we actually open the Bible and teach from it uh but we're not purely a Teaching Ministry but we do all these things all of which are

part of the normal Christian Life and life in the church church and our real goal is to uh equip the body of Christ for doing the works of service that Jesus called us to do and uh and we believe that's going to come through a staged process of renewal Revival and reformation and so we kind of work in all three stages of church renewal from renewal up through reformation and uh I don't know it keeps us busy that's what that's who I am and that's what we do yeah Ken tell us you said you said

the name of your ministry is orbus not all of us went to Princeton like you did uh and we don't know languages so can you maybe tell us what the name of that Ministry means because I or a Latin word and uh and I actually it came to me in a dream I mean I do read Latin but uh but the word came to me in a dream when I was thinking about renaming our ministry we started it as Kingdom fire Ministries which worked for a while but ultimately I was getting a lot of feedback

from people that um word kingdom is kind of a yellow letter word for many evangelicals and no pun intended but fire is a redl word and so uh the name was off-putting and was really creating kind of a branding problem uh so we we started to think about changing the name and I prayed about it for a while one night I had a dream orbus Ministries I knew what the word orbus meant when I woke up uh but I contacted my Web Master immediately and she said all the domain names are available everything I said

grab them all.org dog. m.edu I want them all because I don't want anyone camping out on an adjacent site and setting up I don't know something that sells plastic Elephants or something do you hear that Freemasons no matter what happens today you can't create a fake account in blackmail kin um let's talk about let's talk about Freemasons tell us a little bit about your interest your vested interest in Freemasonry how you started learning about that whole um cult group who are they where they come from all that good stuff and are they even a cult

group wait a minute say that Michael I said and are they even a cult group because we have some people who are in the chat right now well I don't know if they're in the chat but they're at least watching they'll watch this video maybe they're part of the Masons and they don't even believe this is part of the occult or any uh any sort of uh aberant theology or philosophy or anything nothing wrong with it so anyway yeah tell us about the Masons there's been a lot of debate and controversy about the Freemasons and

the Christian Church I mean literally for centuries not not just of late and uh depending on what time in history you're talking about uh there have been um you know Church edicts issued saying you cannot be a Christian and a Freemason and for some people this is going to be off-putting for others it will be confirming but among others the Roman Catholic Church uh still teaches in its formal catechism that you cannot be a Freemason and a Roman Catholic but I know people who have had similar instruction whether they were Lutheran uh they might have

been Methodist or Anglican uh various groups like this for my part I didn't know that much about the Freemasons and when I really started to travel heavily and engage in a lot of uh Deliverance Ministry I started running into it and even then I it was hard to find good information on it and so um eventually through a series of I would just say Divine circumstances Divine appointments um the Lord led me to somebody who helped me understand more about the Freemasons and then I did some reading on them and then since then I've had

quite a few encounters uh prayer encounters where people who have it in their family line or maybe they themselves had been Freemasons um you know they got freed of various things uh that were assailing them just an example one of the common things with people who come out of masonic lines many times they have allergies and many times they have heart conditions now there are other things that can be involved as well and uh and there are certainly other conditions that can arise from Freemasonry but um those are two that are that are common enough

uh that it will at least help those who are listening to think H I wonder if this might be a thing in my life in my own personal life as I got more familiar with Freemasonry I I started thinking you know there are some patterns in my own family and in my own life I wonder if there's Freemasonry in my life and I went around and I talked to those of my relatives who were still alive and everybody said no no nothing like that nobody who ever did anything like that no no no no no

and one day uh maybe it was probably five or six years ago I went over to my aunt's house for lunch and she handed me a book that had been written by a distant cousin of mine and I've never met this cousin but he was at one time an investigative journalist for the Los Angeles Times and uh she handed me a copy of a book that he had published on our family and as you do when people hand you you know a new book I mean we were we were there for lunch so I clearly

wasn't going to curl up in a chair and just start reading the book but you kind of you know flip pages and you you know you look at the table of contents to see what's in it and I I was doing that and uh as I did I flipped the page and my eye fell bang right here on a page fairly early in the book I don't remember the page number now but anyway there it was and uh and it said that my great great grandfather had given a silver trowel to the mayor of New

York and the silver Trel was used to build City Hall in New York City that New York and um and that the the silver trial was now on exhibit in the New York Historical Society and as soon as I I saw that I was like there it is that's what I've been looking for I knew it had to be there because those who who hand out silver travels within the Freemasons this is above the 33rd degree this is this is among the highest levels you can get to and the fact that my great great grandfather

had done this meant that Not only was he a Freemason but he was you know using the influence he had as a high-ranking Mason to you know Curry favor with the government of New York City and it worked and they used again they used this silver Trel to lay the foundation of the SI of City Hall in New York well I thought okay I got to see this I got to fact check this so on a trip to New York when I was going out there I took a few friends and we went over to

the New York Historical Society we had to pay the admission fee and we walked around a bit and there's five floors in the in the society so you may not find it immediately but we knew what we were looking for and sure enough we came up to this case and here was a silver trial and there it said my great great-grandfather's name and he had given it to the mayor of New York and they had used it to lay the foundation of City Hall and I went okay contact you know range to Target bang we

know what we got here and that was kind of my own uh my own personal family history but it lay hidden for literally decades because no well beyond that if you don't count my life just go back even further people people hadn't thought about it they hadn't known about it and many many people have Freemasonry in their family history uh you know some direct lineal descendant or ancestor as it in this case so in my case a great great-grandfather would be five generations back but um but many times these things are forgotten or they aren't

really taken seriously so no one really mentions it they think the Freemasons are some kind of a a social club maybe like the rotary or Kias club or something like that and there are some social organizations that are perfectly good social organizations and the cois and rotary you don't have anything to worry about if if you have family members that have done that but the Freemasons are actually quite different um they have an ancient history that depending on Whose book you're reading goes back at least to the building of the great cathedrals of Europe and

possibly as far back as the building of the pyramids of Egypt but they were called yeah which is really a long time right that's like right well um you know Ken hearing that you have a history in the Masons actually explains a whole lot about never mind I'm not going to finish that so um we knew where that was going Ken's a friend so K's a friend guys Ken is a friend just remember Michael I know where you live right next time you're casting Spirit to you okay so when I was a maybe a couple

years into like my first being a pastor I mean so I was in my early 20s somebody in my church came to me and asked for advice about the Masons and he said hey I'm thinking about joining the Masons what do you think and uh but this was like this was part of him setting up an appointment I was like I don't know what I think I try to do a bunch of Internet research before I I met with them and I was like I can't find anything because I mean I see a bunch of

people claiming that they know but I can't find any ground for their sources so it was just very hard because it's a secretive organization on my way to to meet with him I'm praying while listening I'm kind of like praying under my breath and at the same time I just kind of have a podcast going on in the background it's of a preacher and uh and this preacher in the middle of his sermon he pauses and it had nothing to do with what he was talking about and he says oh by the way I just

feel like I should say this Masons they're a cult and you should never join them it'll you know have all kinds of demonic repercussions and then he continued with a sermon I was like what so I I had this sort of spiritual experience but in terms of research it was really hard to find stuff the reason I tell you all of that Ken is because when you you you said earlier somebody I was talking with somebody and they gave me information I I'm curious who this somebody is uh and you said I also read some

things I'm curious what you read because I want to be mindful of the of the person who's watching who might maybe come from a masonic background or have masons in their family line and like I don't know about this Masons demons thing uh they might look back and a thousand years ago I've found that uh that in the Mason's history that it it seems to have Maybe started as a Christian organization um they seem to do good things for society so I don't know so so for the skeptical person Ken can you help us out

a little bit on citations and sources where are you getting your information from well one of the best sources that you could look at if you want to study this is this book right here that I put up on my phone screen it's called 33 degrees of deception Yeah by Tom M mckenny uh mcken yeah MC ke n NE y Tom McKenna um there are some other things that have been written and you know once you it's like anything once you start getting into studying it you find that there are other places you can draw

from but I found that book to be quite helpful and there was a guy that I met he was he's a friend of mine in Australia and he had done a lot of Deliverance uh Ministry and he had done a lot of work with people coming out of the Freemasons because the the Freemasons are very very prominent and predominant excuse me predominant within Australian society and so I really hadn't heard much about them at all one way or another and I will even say this in uh John wimber's Church The Vineyard Christian Fellowship which later

became known as The Vineyard Christian Fellowship of Anaheim but started out as the vineyard Christian Fellowship of Y Belinda it moved from one city to the next so the name Chang but it was a distinction without a meaning because the two cities are right adjacent to each other and it you know wasn't a very distant move um the very first meeting house that the vineyard Christian Fellowship of Yorbalinda later Anaheim ever had was the Masonic Lodge of Yorbalinda California on Main Street in yor Belinda and it's still there to this day that's literally where the

church had its first meeting hall now to be clear the church got started in somebody's living room and kind of moved around a bit when they finally had gotten so big they needed a place to meet they started meeting in the Masonic Lodge which tells you right away that in the mind of the people there they had no real awareness of or guardedness about Freemasonry since that time I've seen enough I've learned enough um if I'd been there at that time and I wasn't there to give any advice and even if I had been I

wouldn't have been knowledgeable enough to say anything I would have said don't meet in this building you'd be better off to meet in an open field if you need to but don't go do that because um the Freemasons as I said their history it's not entirely clear how far back it goes but it goes back a fair distance and part of why they are called the Freemasons is because at least in the Middle Ages they were trying to kind of distinguish themselves and react against um the Roman Catholic Church which was certainly uh you know

the dominant force in Europe at the time and you know all of government all of life was in one way or another regulated by the teachings of the Roman Catholic church but there were these various groups that weren't really Catholic they didn't really subscribe to all that and and in that sense they were outside the mainstream of society and the Freemasons called themselves free because they said you know we don't we don't swear allegiance to the pope well that was that was enough to get them in trouble on its own but but there's something more

troubling about the Freemasons and that is that they're a secret society which by the way Michael is why you had trouble finding information um they when people join the Freemasons they take an oath of secrecy and so there are other secret societies as well but the nature of secret societies is you swear on pain of death or dismemberment and I mean the these these these vows are pretty gruesome you can again if you know where to look you can find them U but you know may my tongue be cut out May by I my eyes

be gouged out May May my heart be taken beating from my chest um if I give up the secrets of the lodge and of the orders man we're talking Indiana Jones style I mean this is this is serious kinds of uh cultish stuff uh I I'd be curious I mean you just mentioned like Roman Catholic I remember you saying in one of your lectures is that it seems as if there are Muslim groups that incorporate Freemason stuff there are Christian groups Jewish groups it seems as if it's quite syncretistic so I guess this would be

my question you also talked about man it might even go back all the way to you know uh uh Egypt okay again different datings on this if it spans this length of time and is able to uh incorporate other religious views from different religious sects is it kind of like new age to say like you take six new ages from different places on the world they're going to have six different versions of their religion their philosophy what makes them all Freemason right what what makes this group that's such a you know clandestine uh organization how

can we look at all these different groups and say that they're Freemasons is there any consistency to what they believe well one one thing that is a common governing theme of the Freemasons is no matter what branch you're talking about you'll see the symbol G and if you've ever seen the Masonic symbol anywhere there's a prominent G there and it it stands for God at least in English and um you know in in up until pretty recent times in lands that we now call postchristian but formerly called Christian lands or Christen Dum if you said

God it was understood you meant Father Son and Holy Spirit that was just a given that's no longer given and the Freemasons actually for quite a while have used the term God really to refer to some great Transcendent being but not necessarily the one that we call uh father whom we relate to through the person of his son Jesus Christ in atonement that's a it's a completely foreign concept and so in that sense Josh what you're saying is yes it's somewhat new Agy but you could say the Freemasons were new age before New Age was

a thing um some prominent Freemasons that would instantly be recognizable to our listeners um George Washington was a Freemason and many of the founders of the United States were Freemasons um many of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and of the Constitution were Freemasons and Washington DC was laid out literally um you know architecture and urban planning laying out the grid of the city that was done by Freemasons using Masonic uh principles and rituals and the um I saw I saw National Treasure with that movie it it all comes back to a movie huh

Josh well it's that movie with uh what's got Indiana Jones National Treasure what's the next one gonna be yeah well okay so Kim people are hearing you say this though and they're like okay that just sounds conspiratorial again is that book that you recommended going to have the source material kind of exposes and shows that yeah it'll have some of that in there um and by the way CRA Australia has exactly the same history behind it and it is the Washington DC of Australia and I only say it that way because some of our listeners

probably don't know that camber is the national capital but I I mentioned that in order to uh in order to you know let people know that this this business of laying out cities according to Masonic principles is it it is not it's not unique to the United States um in addition like I said a lot of the founding fathers not all of them though John Adams for in particular he was not one uh but many of them were and you were asking about other religions so there is an Islamic branch of Freemasonry and of note

Ataturk car camel I said his name wrong Ataturk camel who was the founder of the modern Republic of Turkey at the conclusion of the Ottoman EMP Empire after World War I he was a Freemason you can find Freemasonry and you can find Masonic lodges in all over Latin America um and it came to Latin America with the Spaniards and to a lesser degree with the Portuguese uh when Latin America was being colonized back in the day so there's there's all of these things we can point to and there's one particular branch of Freemasonry known as

the rosac crucians which rosac crucian is Latin for the rosy colored cross the rose crucians draw upon the mystical religions um some of the mystery Cults uh Buddhism Zoroastrianism things like this coming out of Persia Buddhism doesn't come out of Persia but these are more Eastern style religions um and so that's another branch of Freemasonry and again all of these refer to um this thing you know called God but they don't necessarily they don't necessarily Define who that God is and so one of the tenants of Freemasonry is that you know we all we're all

brother Masons under this one being called God it's expected that you will that you will acknowledge God but that's it now here I've got on my screen um two examples of how the Freemason symbol is shown the one that's more prominent in the rectangle right hang on got to get my finger to work right where'd it go the black yeah the black one yeah there the one that's rectangular uh so you can see the G there between the compass and the square that are used by people who do Drafting and things like that so the

Freemasons are you know associated with building and drawing and laying things out I mentioned these Twin Cities of Washington and CRA and to the to the other side of it it's in a kind of a blue circle that one's not coming through very clearly maybe if I move it back anyway it also has a compass and a square and a g in the middle of it so this is the standard um Masonic symbol that we see if I can pull that one up there we go that'll give you a better picture of that blue one

so that's that's an example and what's interesting is the Freemasons at one point were they were kind of dying out because they oh they like to go down to the lodge and they you know they have their ceremonies and things but it was kind of a boys club and they started to die out and it's interesting that now here in the early 2020s and maybe the late 201s um Freemasonry began to make a huge uh recruiting effort and now you'll see baby haulers or you know whatever people call them kid mobiles um typically SUVs or

things like that Vans minivans um where you would commonly have a car like this if you've got a lot of young children there are a lot of these cars if you keep your eyes open as you drive around you'll see them sporting this symbol that I've just shown you um and what it's telling you is that the the man of the house and he's probably a man in his what 20s or 30s maybe his 40s he's raising kids he's a father but he's joined the Freemasons and when I was working in h San Francisco this

would be about 20 years ago I had a colleague one day came in and he told me he was going to a special meeting that night and he was he was so honored and privileged to be going to this meeting and I said oh what's that and he said well I've been invited to join the Freemasons and by now I had a little more Savvy about what this was and I said ah I and he was a Roman Catholic too and I said I think you want to rethink that he said oh why is that

and I said well first of all your church is going to tell you you shouldn't be a member um I said but beyond that you're going to get yourself Tangled Up In some things that you don't really know what you're messing with and in the long run this is going to hurt you not help you and he said oh I can't believe that the guys I've met have been so nice and this is the thing the Freemasons really present themselves as upstanding citizens especially in small town America or small town Australia or New Zealand um

and even if you travel through many of the you know the countryside of say France or Germany places like this England Scotland many times um people like this I'm not saying in every case it'll always be these exact individuals but people like the chief of police or the uh you know the chief uh whoever the head of surgery is at the local hospital the chief residential Doctor Surgeon General yeah the well the surgeon General is even higher ranking it's for typically a whole country but like in each Hospital there'll be a chief of staff that's

the term they use there often times that person will be a Freemason many times um the people who are the most prominent business people in the town are Freemasons and many times you'll find that um you know the mayor the chief of police uh other people like this in prominent roles are Freemasons and often the local judge will be a Freemason and again you'd need to study this a bit to find out but there's actually a requirement within the Masonic orders that if a brother Mason comes into a judge's courtroom and flashes him the Masonic

symbol no matter what the law says the judge is required to rule in favor of brother Mason irrespective of the merits of the case so it's it's a secret society that exists for the furtherment and betterment of people who are typically looking for either political power or economic wealth and oftentimes the two go together but but those are the two main things that people are seeking after right and they have some funky syncretistic theology that is not Christian was condemned by the Catholic Church uh a long time ago I think that was like maybe 1700s

or so uh but Christians today are consistently speaking out against the Freemasons can I I want to ask you a specific question uh fraternities and sororities now I've heard before that there are some kind of masonic connections if so and if there's anything demonic about Masons then that would indict I mean there would be millions of people in just America alone uh or I don't know hundreds of thousands how many people are in fraternities or sororities or at least how many have been I mean this would be a huge deal I mean is there anything

to that Ken uh yes and no so some fraternities are like theater pipelines into grander Masonic orders so the big ones that people tend to join are Scottish right and York right if they are uh if they're men and they'd be Order of the Eastern Star Daughters of job there's a couple of others as well but anyway for the women and some of the fraternities on college campuses have connections to the Freemasons others do not um my general counsil to people is not you know I I don't tell people across the board you can't join

a a fraternity or a sorority but I do tell them you should investigate what are the linkages and connections and irrespective of whether they have free Masonic connections if they're if they're to making you take secret Oaths I would be very wary of that because a lot of times notwithstanding that they may not be directly Freemasons The Taking of secret Oaths this is forbidden uh not only in the Catholic church but I would add even Jesus said don't take Oaths right he says don't swear uh you can't change the hairs on your head um let

your yes be yes let your no be no anything other than this comes from the evil one and so there can be things that are not Freemason that are still resonant within some sororities and fraternities some not all so if you're going to do it you really want to do your due diligence and be sure what you're what you're signing up for and what you're agreeing to yeah that makes sense you know can you you mentioned a couple times and there are people uh that are watching that aren't on board with the generational curse thing

we'll probably address more of that here in a moment but can you just explain to us the explicit demonic Oaths that are taken to become a Freemason I think maybe the higher up you go the more Oaths you have to take but you talked about in one of your lectures like a Perpetual um a Perpetual binding oath on you and former Generations that follow after you can you just explain the the demonic nature of these Oaths yeah when when you join the Freemasons although you usually aren't told all that you're signing up for at the

first um you are pledging yourself over to an entity a spiritual entity whose name is jabulane Spirit of Freemasonry and if you understand I know you've had Michael Heiser on here so you understand a bit about principalities and powers and that sort of thing well jaulon is one of those principalities but jabulane amalgamation of three separate Gods one is um jaah which is a shortened form of the word Jehovah uh and it's slightly modified as well so the J of Jehovah is the Jah of jaulon and so in the Bible it only work in the

King James Bible because we don't use Jehovah anymore but in the King James translation uh we have je eh Jah is J ah but that's that's the root of it and the Freemasons are famous for taking things particularly out of the King James Bible and um incorporating them into their into their secret Oaths and words and passwords one single example is Isaiah had a son whose name was Maher shalal hashas and that was just what his name was it means Swift to the booty and Speedy to the prey and Isaiah was told to name his

son that because before he was old enough to realize the good and the bad um that the Assyrians would have come and they would have been Swift of the plunder and Speedy to the prey well the Freemasons have taken that name and turned it into a password or a code word and invested it with a kind of talismanic power um so we have and then we have bull now who is bull well most people who know anything about Christianity have heard of this God named Baal usually Americans just say Bale or Ball but it's b

a a l and um so Bal is the is the Canaanite god of fertility and so bull in the jaulon name and this is no bull uh is it's spelled b in that part of the word uh but bull is modified form of B so now we have this this ja entity who's supposedly you know the lord god Jehovah mingled with the very God that he hates the most Bal and then we have an who is an in jaulon an is a shortened form of the name anuras who was the Egyptian god of war and

so jaulon is an Unholy Trinity of some modification of the Jewish god the Canaanite god and the Egyptian god this is the Trinity to whom they are swearing Allegiance and as it turns out and you only learn this much later as you go higher up in the orders jaulon is actually a cipher it's a code name for Satan himself now now you mentioned jaulon that that's in their texts right like that's not like in personal Deliverance stories you had people come up and be like you know not I am Legion but I am jabulane said

demon that identified itself you're saying like this the source material from the Freemasons are saying this is the god that we worship but you're not GNA find this readily because again these these words are held secretly As you move up through the levels when you when you first pledge you go through three levels of initiation this is known as the blue Lodge right of the Freemasons and once you've gone through three levels you are now an accredited Master Mason and you've completed your formal training but then people who get serious about it you have levels

four up to 33 and then there's a few levels above 33 U places where you give out silver TRS you become a Master Mason which means you're a lodge Master uh you may found a lodge you might have some other things that go with that um so conventionally it's up through the 33rd degree but again there are these other even higher levels that are not mentioned nearly as often and generally people aren't they never find out about this unless they just hear about it and they certainly would never be invited to become those higher level

Masons unless and until they had completed their 33rd degree initiation and so names like jaulon are reserved for the 30th degree and higher okay so K if you go to a lot of uh say Deliverance teachers who talk about uh who talk about Mason specifically they'll have you renounce every single oath and every single degree and and I've seen uh I've seen Deliverance Ministries that have pages and Pages where they'll have participants read through notebooks that are like 20 Pages 30 pages long and they just have to reserve an afternoon to read this out loud

renouncing every single curse renouncing every single Oath by name and I I've noticed in your teaching what while you do encourage people to be as specific as possible you you emphasize the Simplicity of of the approach you uh you have I have written down here five steps I don't know if you still use five steps Ken but I'm just going to go ahead and read these off one declare allegiance to to Jesus renouncing all other allegiances two renounce blessing and curses of the Masonic Lodge three repent on behalf of ancestors for participating in Freemasonry named

persons uh and identify as specifically as possible four renounce jaulon and command him to release the person in Jesus name five anounce and evict spirits of death and infirmity uh this sounds like it could take place in a much shorter period of time than reserving an afternoon and reading a long list of potential Oaths and curses and blessings that all need to be renounced so can you speak into your differing approach and why you don't have people read a long list of pages like many Deliverance Ministries do yeah I don't do it because um I

have found that many times when people go through those long lists they come to the end and they can't really tell you that much has happened sometimes they can but but I'd say more commonly not so much and so it this this really arises from the way I understand Deliverance Deliverance is power encounter it's an encounter between the Finger of God and the kingdom of Satan that's what Jesus said if I drive out demons by the Finger of God know with certainty that the Kingdom of Heaven has come among you and so um what I

what I found out was that a lot of people were were going to whole weekend Retreats reading these you know renunciation prayers and just to be clear I'm not saying there's anything harmful or even even dumb or silly about doing it I just don't think it's the thing that pushes everything off the cliff um we need we need power to drive things out not formulas and rituals and so um one of the people that I ran into who had had a lot of experience with this um he and I started talking and he said well

this is what I have found works the best go after the ruling Spirit of Freemasonry drive it out and all the rest of it will leave and I said oh that's interesting so I tried it and I've seen dramatic breakthroughs with people who were coming out of Freemason families or had themselves been Freemasons and so um the reason we do it that way the blessings and curses have to do with the fact that when you when you go through the blue Lodge ritual um you are actually taking unto yourself blessings that will help you politically

or economically you are also taking unto yourself curses should you ever break uh the vows of secrecy or walk away from the Freemasons this is just this is part of the what you what you recite when you join the Freemasons and they do certain things to you they have uh actions that they do they'll put a hood over your head at the second degree it's called the hood wink ritual um they will expose your chest by opening your shirt and they will take a bear I'm already out on that part they'll take a bare blade

of a dagger and they lay it down over your chest and the and the you know what you say is you know may my heart be cut out as with this dagger should I ever break the Masonic line but then you pledge all of your progyny in perpetuity to the service of jaulon and the lodge that means you you took a Blood Oath and you pledged that your children your grandchildren your great-grandchildren your great great grandchildren forever and ever amen will serve jaulon who we've already said is a cipher for Satan himself and the Masonic

lodge and so when people are coming out of Freemasonry they have to repent of that sin that their ancestor committed in my case it was my great great grandfather um and but by the way you might have other ancestors who were also in so you might need to repent on behalf of each one of them as far as you know about them and so you ask the Lord to cover that and to break these these blessings and these curses and then there are vows and Covenants that have been made that bind these blessings and cursings

to you this is the nature of the way occultic rituals work for those who have no experience with it it sounds very I mean almost foolish but trust me I've done enough work in this area this is what goes on in all of these kind of occultic societies and when they're engaging in their rituals so um the person renounces blessings and curses vows and Covenants and then we we uh have them renounce jabul on and they'll PL The Pledge to the lodge and then we command jaulon out and we also command out um the spirit

of infirmity and the spirit of death and that's because generally the enforcement of those vows and Covenants that the person just had you know just said they weren't going to be part of anymore generally the enforcement of those comes through disease and premature death and so there is a spirit of infirmity that brings sickness undo sickness and there's a spirit of death that brings about premature death and if you look at the lives of people who have been Freemasons they often have somewhat mysterious deaths from somewhat mysterious conditions and very often not living to a

ripe old age I mean everybody's going to die sometime but sure but they often don't live into their 90s or you know into their hundreds and and let me just say this because somebody will probably say well what about George Washington there was a there was literally a change in the Masonic uh order and in the rights and rituals of the Freemasons in the very early 1800s and so it's really the Freemasons since that time they've become shall we say more toxic or more virulent than they even were prior to the early 1800s I can't

remember the year of their of their reform from memory I'm thinking it's 1815 but I may be off by a year or so okay can someone in the comments this is a question for Ken it says uh can Christians be uh demonically and or generally cursed if so can you provide spiritual reference uh from the New Testament yeah generationally cursed yes sorry I apologize I would typically run to if I had to get an explicit text for demonic oppression for believers would be 2 Corinthians 11:4 for some when someone comes and proclaims another Jesus from

the one we've proclaimed or if they receive a different Spirit from the one you have received or if you accept a different gospel El than the one you have accepted you put up with it readily enough so in in second Corinthians he opens the book saying this is to the Saints the hagios the holy ones that he's writing to and then he tells them I'm worried about you just like Eve put up with demonic doctrines demonic teachings false Spirits you seem to be willing to do that very thing that would be typically one that I

run to um and we talked a lot about we don't have to unpack that today um on the the word for demon possession and versus demonization in the kind of the way the is rendered you can go watch our playlist on demons uh if you're interested in that but let me just ask you when it comes to curses specifically not just demonic stuff in general but curses when I when I read in the uh the scriptures of the curses that God is placing on Generations I often find it's the it's God placing the curse himself

it's not a demon placing the curse on a person um and then the subsequent question would be if Christ became a curse for us on the tree shouldn't we be free of all of these curses from our ancestors so let me just let you pick up on the curse conversation well you've just thrown out five questions um all of which I answer in detail in my series on uh Deliverance which is available through my website orbis ministries.org um because this is a podcast I can't possibly dive into every single facet of this but I do

want I do want to say a couple things about this number one 1 Timothy 4:1 this is written by the hand of apostle Paul the Apostle of Grace now the spirit now he means the Holy Spirit he doesn't mean just some random Spirit the Holy Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the Faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons yeah and I actually like it even better the way the NIV and the King James render it um the the Spirit uh expressly states that in latter times

some will give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons or things taught by demons depends on which of those two other translations you're going to use um it is clear that Paul is speaking to a Christian named Timothy who was his own spiritual son and disciple and Timothy has been left in Ephesus to set that church in order and Paul is addressing the problem of people who are Christians coming under the influence of demons because of listening to false teaching I mean there's no other way to interpret this you can parse and exag this

passage and talk about you know which form of the verb it is but that's clearly what Paul is saying in addition in Acts chapter 19 which is the E which is the Ephesian Revival um when Paul is evangelizing Ephesus there is a ruling Spirit over that City her name is aramus she's a Greek goddess and it says that these people were getting saved and and it says a it says afterward hang on I got to find the verse I'm used to it in my other Bible and I'm not uh I'm not reading from the correct

uh book that I usually pull out but it's in my backpack right now so um it turns out that there is a group of men who are the sons of a Jewish high priest named ska and they're practicing exorcism and they see Paul using the name of Jesus and they say hm we should try that that looks like a particularly powerful Talisman at driving out demons they try it and it doesn't really work and so the evil spirit in the man Masters the seven sons of ska uh they flee the house naked and bleeding and

it becomes known throughout all of Ephesus now I'm reading from 1917 this is the book of Acts 1917 and this became known to all the residents of Ephesus both Jews and Greeks and fear fell upon them all and the name of the Lord Jesus was extolled and also many of those who were now Believers came what's that telling you these are Christians who are coming having heard about the failed exorcism at the hands of the sons of ska they came and they divulged and confessed their practices so they're talking about the things that they had

formerly done which apparently maybe they were still doing them or maybe they had ceased doing them but they hadn't really gotten free of all of that when they had been converted and it says a number of those who had practiced magic Arts so occult things brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all now this is more than just a book burning it is a book burning but it's more than that because anyone who's ministered in in like deep levels of the occult I should say ministered to people who were in deep

levels of the occult anyone who has been involved in getting Freemasons out of Freemasonry knows that there will be times when the books need to be burned the robes need to be burned the Rings need to be melted the swords need to be melted or if they can't be melted you you somehow deform and shatter them because there is literal spiritual power bound up to these objects and the reason they're having a book burning is not that they're a bunch of Nazis 2,000 years early let me say that again are not Nazis they are doing

it because these men and women who had been practicing these things they had books of spells and magic and so forth and they had to get free of the evil spirits that were still bound to them this is a Deliverance Revival that Paul has going on and again anyone who's done any level of serious Deliverance Ministry knows that there are times you need to destroy these objects because that's where the Demonic Power is coming from that continues to bind the believer now there's one other place I want to cite and that comes out of 1

Corinthians chapter 10 and of course I just turned to Second Corinthians chapter 10 so give me just a moment here while I turn and in writing about um the the practices of the Corinthians most of our modern commentators don't go into 1 Corinthians 10 very deeply because they think it's a a purely contextual thing for that time when Paul was you know ministering among the Corinthians but Paul says this in First Corinthians 10 uh we'll say we'll start in verse 14 therefore my beloved flee from idolatry I speak as to sensible people judge for yourselves

what I say the cup of blessing that we bless is it not a participation in the blood of Christ well clear implication yes it is and the bread that we break is it not a participation in the body of Christ clear implication yes it is because there is one bread we who are many are one body and we all partake of the one bread consider the people of Israel are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar well he's using an analogous argument and he's saying yes they are what do I imply then

that food offered to Idols is anything or that an idol is anything now Paul is not saying that there's nothing at all behind an idol Paul's a rabbi and he knows Psalm 106: 36 and 37 which says all the gods of the nations are demons and there is power in demons so Paul's aware of that but what he's saying is these these gods are not greater than our God our Father who gave up his son Jesus on our behalf what do I imply that food offered to Idols is anything or that an idol is anything

no I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God there is he's referencing and echoing Psalm 106 I do not want you to be participants with demons bang right there from the mouth of the Apostle of Grace Paul is saying Christians can participate with demons and be demonized you cannot drink the cup of the Lord in the cup of demons he's not saying you literally cannot he's saying you should not and another way of saying is you can't do it and get away with it if you try it you're going

to end up demonized Christians you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons identical argument now made with regard to the bread not the wine and it was Wine Not grape juice and then he says shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy are we stronger than he so Paul is giving in at least these three uh passages that I've read he's whether by his actions in Ephesus or his teaching in 1 Timothy and in 1 Corinthians he is speaking to the fact that absolutely Christians can come under under the influence

of demons and be demonized I have a number of other passages that speak to the demonization of Believers in that teaching series on demonization we just can't go into all of that here now as far as curses go curses are in fact a real thing and I would just man it's it's such a big argument but most of the time people want to exclude all of this by saying the Old Testament doesn't matter and yet what happened to uh what happened to the family of Israel the whole nation of Israel when Saul committed blood guilt

by killing the giban ites in his Zeal to avenge the the uh what he should should have done but didn't do when he was dealing with the first tribe that he was told to get rid of because they had come out against the Jews as they were coming out of Egypt and there was a curse on the land for for over three years there was no rain that would fall and David sought the Lord and the Lord said to David it's because there is blood guilt on the house of Saul and it's on the whole

nation because he he went after the gianitsos to be after I'm wanting to say the midianites it wasn't the midianites help me out who was it the the gibit the GI no no the gibeonites were the ones he should not have killed looking up right now I can make myself appear credible to our listeners ganite Revenge yeah but but the gibian ites are not the one that that Saul was told to kill Saul was told oh the amalekites thank you yeah yeah that's Samuel had so the command of Saul was get rid of the amalekites

and there's a whole back story behind that that you can trace through Exodus uh Deuteronomy and the first little bit of Joshua where they are told to remember this and 400 years after it had occurred now Saul is king and the Lord says go deal with the amalekites and Saul doesn't do it and apparently based on the story that we have that deals with this drought that I've just mentioned this comes out of um was it 1st Samuel chapter 2 Samuel 21 um when this drought comes year by year no rain falls David seeks the

Lord and the Lord says it's all because of what Saul did he took on the gianitsos sua with the gianitsos sua didn't seek the Lord and the gibeonites disguised themselves and made it look like they'd come from a long way away they had moldy bread they had worn out clothes and so without inquiring of the Lord they said oh you guys aren't the people of the land land here okay we'll make a covenant with you and then lo and behold they were in fact the locals and so they make them into water carriers they're kind

of second class citizens but they don't lay a hand on them and they are a protected class within Israel all of those years and then Saul when he realizes that he had not followed through on the amalekite Vengeance of the Lord now he turns and he SL he slays the gibian ites in lie of the Amal KES and this brings a curse down on the whole of Israel this is clearly laid out in scripture you you might need to read a little more Bible than you're used to to get the whole story I've got a

teaching on this also on my website called curse breaking and I go through every one of the passages in great detail I unpack the Hebrew where relevant Etc but I'm giving you the whatever this has been three minute summary of it right here so there's an example of that sort of thing that's clearly and and you're right Ken we're we're touching on issues that it would take a lifetime not a lifetime but it take hours to get through all of these things Josh and I have also uh done an episode on generational curses you guys

can go back and look that up too um but but let's just assume generational curses are a thing what does it even mean and look like to repent for the sins of a great great grandfather Ken could you share with us practically what that looks looks like maybe even in the context of your own story because that's exactly what you did yeah um and before I tell you what that looks like let me just give you a couple scripture verses people can look at as it happens all of these are chapter nine of their respective

books go look at Ezra chapter 9 Nehemiah chapter 9 Daniel chapter n and if you will look through all of that um you will see that over and over again the respective person praying is confessing the sins of the ancestors and in the Bible it says the sins of our fathers but really it's the sins of the fathers and the mothers because sometimes the mothers are the ones who have done it it's not only the fathers and there is something that has occurred that lingers something that gets passed on down now remember with the Freemasons

which is what this episode's really about you if you're L listening to this show and you had a father or grandfather or great grandfather who's a Freemason you were pledged before maybe you were even a twinkle in your father's eye you were pledged and so you don't have you didn't have a say so in these things just like you didn't have a say so in whether you were going to inherit this the iniquity of Adam and Eve that came to you from long before and so there are some things in life you don't get to

choose you don't get to choose your eye color you you don't get to choose your hair color although nowadays with the right bottle of chemicals you might be able to change it but but I mean these things are are just the way they are and so people who come out of masonic lines have been pledged and when people have these uh things that have been put on them there are there are blessings and there are curses there are blessings of prosperity and political power that come to those who maintain the Masonic line and there are

curses that come upon those who break the Masonic line and what happens is these Spirits jabul infirmity death become the enforcers of those things and they will bring down all of this Calamity upon your head because you are no longer holding true to the Freemasons as I've often said Satan is a cruel Taskmaster and he doesn't much care how he ruins your life he just wants to do it so when we talk about generational curses generational curses come from previous generations but what I really personally prefer to the language of generational curse is generational iniquity

iniquity is something that runs in the bloodline it's that sin that you inherit from your ancestors and demons always want to attach to sin and so another verse that you'll often hear people site although this isn't our main topic today is they'll say a curse without cause cannot a light comes out of the Book of Proverbs well that's true and so people say well I'm under the blood of Christ no curse can Al light on me and I'm like well if there's generational iniquity that hasn't been cleaned up that hasn't been confessed a spirit an

evil spirit might attach to that and suddenly you're demonized and you don't even realize why it's there so in my own life I confessed the iniquitous root the sin of my great great grandfather in forming league with Satan through joining the Freemasons and joining the lodge there in New York I have a friend who has an apartment that when you look out of his window I can look across several buildings and see that Lodge my grandfather belonged to great great-grandfather um with the it's in blue and it has that same compass and square with the

big G it's on the side of one of the buildings in Midtown um that's the lodge that my great great-grandfather was part of way back in the day and I confessed as it were as though it were my own that's how Ezra Nehemiah and Daniel confessed they confessed the sin of their generation and they confessed the sin of their fathers and so I said Lord I want you to forgive me as though I were there even though I wasn't because I was in the loins of my great great grandfather and that concept is also a

very scriptural concept that we are in the loins of those who were our ancestors long before we were born Hebrews 7even I think it is that that's exactly where yeah is it Hebrews 7 where he talks about Abraham uh let's see Levi paid TI to through the loins of Abraham through the Lo of Abraham yeah that's it so there's the idea so it's a scriptural idea it's just we don't think this way in Western thought largely because we have a our our worldview has been stripped of Supernatural content but I was my great great-grandfather's Loy

so I confessed as though it were my sin and I asked for the blood of Jesus to cover the sins that my great great grandfather had committed um in all that he did with the Freemasons as well as anything else that might have come about because of his rise to power and success and in his day he was a very very influential man obviously he at least consorting with the mayor of New York but it went far beyond that and then I asked that the curse that came upon those who had broken the Masonic line

which I clearly had done would be broken and I asked that the blood of Jesus would be applied to cover it the word kafar in Hebrew uh we get the word hilasmos from that and so that's the Greek equivalent of it and that that would all cover it and then I had some friends with me I mentioned that who had gone to the Historical Society with me and I had them lay hands on me and break the power of the Masonic curse and to command jabul on death and infirmity to leave me and things started

to change in my life in the aftermath of that so so K we mentioned this earlier you know the the life memory of literate Society so living memory is what we typically call it when you're in a um uh what do you a non literate Society like when when the the society doesn't read and write your your living memory typically is much much longer but once once once I'm talking funny like Sean conry once a uh a a society begins to formalize things in reading and writing their their living memory doesn't go very far I

mean it's typically third generation you're lucky if you can get a fourth generation of living memory so if that's the case and someone comes to you maybe they're adopted maybe they don't know their grandparent whatever and you know they're coming to you they seem to have an infirmity how can we know that there was some Freemasonry stuff so what are the kind of the spiritual signs that Freemasonry stuff has happened and this is a great question from Julie that kind of follows up she goes if I break a generational curse associated with Freemasonry because of

a a great-grandfather do my children have to do so as well or will I have broken it for them like can you break it on behalf of other people I mean yeah Josh you're so good at at nesting multiple questions together well they're they're basically the same question right like how do we know and then who has to break it well that's a really good question Josh and we often run into it so let me uh let me answer that because it people people do want to know this the way this works is um if

you you find out you have freem Mason in your family and you get free of it good for you if you have children they too or grandchildren they too will need to get freed from this Spirit jaulon they will need that however if you get freed of it before you sire or bear a child depending on if you're a man or a woman that child who is sired or born following your freedom from this thing will not need that kind of prayer so if you have clean loins you're good well yeah sired and loins we've

got some good vocab going on here you need to check your spouse and I am assuming this is your spouse or you shouldn't be having children with them um you need to check your spouse to see if they have Freemasonry in their family because oftentimes without knowing it two people with Masonic backgrounds come together and now we got to deal with the jaulon problem on Dad's side and Mom's side just saying okay all right Ken um I I want to ask you uh earlier you talked about you you use the word dramatic to describe some

of the encounters you saw as you use the word jaulon in casting demons out so I'm gonna pull a Josh here and I'm G to Nest two questions number one does it really matter if we know the name and use the name why can't we just say Spirit go in the name of Jesus okay so that's the first question second question is tell us some of those dramatic stories what are some of the experiences especially maybe something that has an accompanying healing like a like a visible after effect all right um so people often ask

do you need to know the name of a demon and the answer is not always um most of the Gospel accounts that show Jesus driving out demons don't show him calling them out by a specific name having said that we do have this one that we know its name was Legion and if you look at Mark 5 the the tense of the Greek verb I believe it's in verse eight but you can fact check that it says Jesus was saying the G the construction in Greek is El again which means he was saying again and

again and again it's an imperfect verb which refers to a repetitive action in a past time so Jesus effectively what it's telling us in Greek does it's not as clear in English is Jesus was saying to the demon come out come out come out come out come out now that may have been because there were so many who was driving them out one at a time it might have been because it wasn't coming out and it was resisting him and I know for some of you you're going to go wait a minute no demon can

resist Jesus not so fast remember that at one time he prayed for a blind man and he had to pray a second time because that man only only saw men walking around like trees and then he prayed again and now he was healed so not all healings contrary to Evangelical mythology were instantaneous in New Testament times the majority seem to have been but not all of them were and apparently with this one with the Gathering demoniac in Mark 5 and there are two parallel accounts one in Matthew one in Luke um apparently with that man

it was not enough merely to say evil spirit come out and so what does Jesus do he switches tactics and he says what is your name and the spirit says my name is Legion for we are many and then they ensues this discussion about going into the pigs and Jesus drives Legion out but it works because he had legion's name it was understood in the ancient world that if you knew the name of something you had power over it this is why again in the occult there are books of you can buy them on Amazon

if you want to go dabble in that and they will tell you the names of specific demons not advised by this podcast sorry keep going sorry I I just said you said you can go buy the books if you want to dabble on that and I said not advised by this podcast just wanted to sneak that in there right well I was gonna say I don't recommend that you do this but you can go by those books and get the names of many different demons and this is what they do in the occult this is

what they teach you when you join witch's covens to conjure up Spirits by name and send them to do your bidding whatever that witchcraft thing is I mean I I don't know how to be more explicit than that and so in this particular Story one single place in the Bible Jesus names this Spirit by its name legion after asking for it and he sends those demons into the pigs and it appears from the way The Story Goes that Legion is the name of the ruling Spirit over a whole cluster of them perhaps many thousand because

2,000 pigs drown in the sea as a result and I have seen that exact phenomenon on many many many occasions but not necessarily with Freemasonry um Freemasonry is kind of a unique nichy thing now you um Michael you asked me for a story or two um probably the single most dramatic healing I've ever seen that came about from Freemasonry occurred in Dallas Texas uh this probably would have been six or seven years ago um I went to this church I preached and after the service the fa a father came up to me with his son

and to look at him as I remember the boy looked young and as I remember he was maybe 11 years old plus or minus one year and um the son had a flesh eating bacterium that was that was devouring his digestive tract from his esophagus all the way down to his rectum and it was devouring his stomach and his intestines and these bacteria that they they'd been to all the good hospitals nobody knew how to get rid of these bacteria and the boy was in constant agonizing pain because of the breakdown that was going on

within his in his uh his digestive system the father asked me to pray for the boy and as I started to pray I thought dang this this looks and sounds like Freemasonry to me there's no discernable cause it's bringing him to an early death he's in excruciating pain and in fact the boy was kind of bent like this when he stood um because that was you know he'd learned to try to find a any place that was a little bit less painful and he' learned that by bending over just a few degrees not not all

the way over not 90 degrees like that um he could moderate somehow some of the pain that he was experiencing he was scheduled for to go in on Monday morning this was Sunday so the next day he was supposed to go into on Monday morning to Baylor uh University hospital they were going to do the last set of tests and checks and two weeks later they were going to cut him open and they were going to remove his entire digestive system from his esophagus all the way way down to his rectum and put him on

a colostomy because they were afraid that these flesh eating bacteria would breach through the walls of his stomach and intestines and would devour ultimately his liver his kidneys and would create you know peritonitis and he would die that way so this was their last attempt to spare his life now there's nothing about what I've said that has been exaggerated this is the facts on the ground and so as I as I said wait a minute this looks like Freemasonry is there Freemasonry in your family and he said yes there is and he said in my

wife's family too and he and then he said do we need prayer and I said yeah we should just do this as a family thing I said do you have any other kids well they had three other kids that were there so now we have six of them but the main focus is on this this one kid and so um we begin to pray and I I'll spare you a lot of the details except to say that there was a lot of very obvious man man estation and we dealt with the Freemasonry on both sides

of the parents and then we had each of the kids also go through prayer to get free of Freemasonry now obviously these are young kids they don't have any children yet so they when they come to childbearing age uh and are you know ready to have families they will not need to have their children prayed for unless their spouses bring it into the family but anyway we get Mom and Dad free and then we get all four of the the kids free and as I say it was very obvious very visible manifestation as they're getting

free of this Freemasonry um so the next day I'm back in California because I flew home after the service and I get a phone call from the dad and he said I had to threaten my pastor to get your phone number but I had to call you I said what's going on he says we're at Baylor and the doctors have gone in and they've looked in my son's stomach and intestines and there is no sign of the flesh eating bacteria and all of the damage that was there is gone my son is okay wow and

I mean he was within two weeks of being reduced to a of his life praise God and it's because we got rid of that thing and drove it out about two months later his dad shows up with his son just the one son at a conference I was where I was speaking in uh in Illinois and he wanted me to pray for his son that this this canting because what had happened was his bone plate in the in his hips had not formed properly because he'd spent so much time bending over that as it calcified

um it it froze in that position and he wanted to get it get prayer for his son to be able to stand upright and so you know he brought him up on the platform and I laid hands on his son and my last memory I haven't seen them since although I've spoken to to the dad on the phone a few times my last memory of that boy is of him fully upright running across the stage now healed of his bone condition that was a subsidiary of the problem caused by the Freemasonry that was eating his

son alive from the inside man at Baylor University yeah Ken these stories are they're super encouraging and man I we we need to wrap the show up because I think we probably kept you longer than we we had talked about before so um I do want to give you an opportunity though how do people connect with you do you want speaking engagements like how do they how do they reach out to you in your website if they want to uh you know book you if they want to like learn from discipleship I know you mentioned

a couple of courses that you have online just take a moment to plug all of that and then we'll just kind of circle back around and close the program all right well from the top we have a website orbis ministries.org o RB i s by the way Josh you asked about orbus we never actually got the answer Out orbus means means unto the world it's a Latin word that means unto the world when a new pope is uh is elected and you know he goes to that window in St Peter Square he always raises two

fingers in the Papal Blessing and he says Ur at Ori which is Latin for un the city and unto the world so orbus means unto the world um so orbus Ministries but but we're we're Catholic in case you have problems with Catholics um orbis ministries.org is our website we have a school for training people to operate in Deliverance healing prophecy inner healing uh and some other things as well uh and that school is called orbus School of ministry and that has its own dedicated website you can Port through from the main website to get there

but the school's website is orbus sm.com the SM stands for school of ministry and therefore there are two s's in that one o RB I sm.com um we have product and teachings available if you don't want to go to the school that you can buy on the website the first website I gave you orbis ministries.org we also have a downloadable app that you can get for No Charge out of apple Google play um and I think maybe there's one other place we have it posted and I can't think of what it is right now but

anyway most people use Apple store or Google Play and we have a lot of free teaching there uh podcasts conferences that we've done and other things and we add content all the time so those are three good ways to connect with me you can also send an email to my office and be added to our secret Facebook group it's not a secret society it's just secret so that Facebook won't censor us when we say things they deem objectionable if you're in a hidden group then they tend not to get too riled up but we've got

about I don't know maybe 9,000 people in that group and uh write to info at orbis ministries.org um and Brian will add you to that group and then you can participate in our Facebook group Ken we got people going kin's Catholic how long has kin been Catholic you don't mean Roman Catholic you mean Catholic in the historic Global sense I think I am I am Catholic in the historic sense I am not a Roman Catholic okay yeah so so for people who are confused with terminology yeah yeah he's cathol Universal Church The Universal Church excellent

guys thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Remnant radio uh thanks for staying so long I know this episode went a little bit over we started a little bit late too so hopefully that that kind of works itself out there links in the description if you've been benefited by this ministry and want to support us uh PayPal a onetime gift or you can give on patreon those five bucks a month you get access to extra content Ken's a great guy Miller does a lot of traveling a lot of traveling with him has

done some traveling with him administered alongside him doing deliverance and stuff like that that's one of the reasons we invited Ken on uh he's kind of an I would say an expert in this field uh we've seen him uh do the Deliverance stuff I'm on I'm on the fence when it comes to some of this doctrinal stuff because I I was raised in this kind of worldview where it goes man if you're a Christian you can't be demonized but as I'm sifting through uh different expressions of charismatic Faith talking about Deliverance Ministry I'm finding that

there are some pretty compelling arguments so if you're out there and this sounds really foreign to you I would encourage you maybe pick up Sam Storm's book on Deliverance go check out some of uh kin's stuff on Deliverance it would be probably very beneficial to you to even hear the other side of the aisle typically we just hear you know well I know there's demons that Christians can can have because I've cast demons out of Christians and it's like not a compelling argument for a lot of people but there is a lot of really academic

stuff out there so I just encourage you if you're out there just check out some of that material and see uh uh if it would be edifying or encouraging to you in this process Round Tree do you have anything you want to add to that before we we sign off today no that's it thanks guys for uh for joining us make sure you hit that subscribe button hit the like button and share this episode with some people uh thank you everybody thank you Ken and uh we'll see you guys tomorrow Josh tomorrow Michael tomor tomorrow

all right we'll see you tomorrow God bless you guys