Joe Rogan Experience #1492 - Jocko Willink

if anybody's got the answers it's jocko you got any answers oh uh i'm not quite so sure about that i'm not sure how this movie ends this is the dumbest [ __ ] movie ever do you know magic the gathering is now racist i don't know what magic the gathering is it's some dorky game that that nerds play oh sorry how is it how is it racist um i don't know it was just re i only saw the title of the article that they're trying to cancel magic the gathering i'm like oh christ i thought

that's what you guys liked i thought they liked magic the gathering i i have no idea everything's everything's everything's problematic everyone's getting canceled it's amazing how many people did blackface yeah it's very strange it's very strange it's it's very strange i was on it was on prime time tv right yeah a bunch of times yeah i mean like in the modern world prime time tv jimmy fallon was doing well he's doing a chris rock impression which by the way you used to be able to do when i was in high school my friends were mr

t for halloween nobody gave a [ __ ] nobody was like jimmy what's wrong with you everybody's like oh you're mr t for halloween it was never like a problem it's very it's a very strange thing you know like you can do white face no problem here it is what is this magic the gathering invoke prejudice card that's a it's an enchantment card which restricts the casters opponents only using summons that match the skin color of their opposing creatures huh this is if you brought me on to talk about this i should leave now about

about magic the gathering and this is why i'm here man we're in a bad way it shows how [ __ ] up everything is yeah there's a lot of thin skin out there right now apparently i just don't i mean it seems like a perfect storm like if you wanted to engineer the downfall of society you would do it in several steps you would have a reality show president where everybody's mad at them and and then all the liberals get their feathers in a ruffle and everybody gets real super uptight and then there's this big

divide between the left and the right that's kind of you know manufactured and then you'd have this disease just lock everyone inside yeah unprecedented lock shut down the economy force people to not work so if your business falls apart you could be the most hard-working diligent disciplined person who's always at work an hour early always has your eyes dotted and your t's crossed you still go broke you're still [ __ ] and then you have this george floyd thing and then boom it just ignites the power keg the other thing that you have to wrap

around all this is this social media which is you know i'm only going to post things that are just gonna completely make everyone that sees whatever i'm posting emotional and and filled with rage whether you're on the left or you're on the right my goal is to enrage people that's the goal and then that just gets spun up over and over so you're taking all these little incidents and you're multiplying times thousands and thousands of views and and then on top of that mainstream media is the same thing right it's not like there's this huge

difference between what the mainstream media shows and what social media they're both exposed to emotional media just trying to make people emotional which is the worst possible thing no one makes good decisions when they're emotional no i spent my adult life trying to train humans to not get emotional in pressure situations why because it's gonna end up bad every single time every single time and yet that's what our that's what our society is based on right now but it's based on these emotional reactions yeah because of social media i think and because of things like

youtube and user created content where anybody can kind of make videos so many things are vying for folks attention that mainstream media has resorted to clickbaity type [ __ ] whether it's new york times articles which you know used to be beyond reproach that they're they've gone social justice warrior and click baity and all these other websites are 100 clickbaity that's the only way they can get people to pay attention like i saw like the dumbest [ __ ] article i couldn't believe how dumb it was it was an article on ozark it's like has

ozark been canceled and i'm like [ __ ] they canceled that show that show's amazing so then i click on the article the entire article is about a guy who couldn't find season one on ozark because there was a glitch and then he found it and so it's not okay so the whole article was just [ __ ] yeah but they got me they get everybody they got you to click they got their advertising dollars because they can show the engagement with the audience exactly well here's a good one cnn showed a guy got shot

yesterday in san bernardino um a hispanic man got shot in san bernardino so that's the title the title of the article is hispanic man gets gunned down by the police in san bernardino what they leave out is the guy had a gun and was shooting at the cops so this guy's got a gun there's photos of this gentleman with a gun and there's a cop on his knees about to shoot the guy the guy standing in front of a gas station there's gas pumps i mean i mean maybe he felt like they wouldn't shoot at

him because the gas tanks were right behind him the the pumps were right behind him but why would they leave that out guy with gun in gun fight with cops dies is the right title not hispanic man gunned down by cops like they're literally trying to incite anger and violence they know that you read that and you say hispanic man shot by cops like these [ __ ] they're murderers they won't stop and they leave out this picture of this man with a gun pointing it you're looking at me like i'm gonna say some kind

of really profound answer i got nothing for you because because you're exactly right that what is it what do they set up that headline for it's a outrage people yeah anyone that actually opens it up and reads would actually probably say something like hmm sounds like the cops did a good job on that one and killed a bad guy before he blew up a gas station and it killed a bunch of innocent people but that's that's obviously not that i mean i think if you try to write a headline the other way of how these

heroic cops face man with gun eliminate him before he can cause terror in this neighborhood that would be a nice headline to read but you're not going to see it you're not going to do that not today because it's not going to drive enough people crazy today if your wife tweets all lives matter you can get you can get fired it doesn't even have to be you anymore yeah all lives matter just imagine a time where saying all lives matter is so controversial that you could get fired didn't that happen to a soccer player or

something yes a soccer player's wife tweeted something like that yeah the guy who runs the kings or the guy who's the commentator for the kings they fired him you know and then this is a lot of it is this right so people are feeling a certain way and they're not they're not like this girl that wrote all lives matter do you think that was her clandestine way of showing that she's all about white pride you know what i mean no she was thinking hey everyone matters she's probably having some nice thoughts you know she's but

then all of a sudden no this chick is evil right for doing this and i think there's a lot of that i think there's a lot of people that i think most people are pretty sane i think most people are pretty reasonable i think you know anybody looking at at the george floyd case like yeah that's completely wrong that's disgusting it's horrible tainus to watch i haven't heard anyone say other anything other than that so how are we just getting so completely divided on this whole thing and start attacking people start attacking each other just

over over absolutely everything that's a good point because this is literally a case where no one is saying there's nothing wrong with that cop did no one no one zero people zero people but yet everybody's still at each other's throats zero people have have stuck up that guy in any way shape or form even law enforcement no law enforcement people say you gotta understand this is how you control a man you gotta lean on his neck for about eight minutes 40 40 45 seconds 46 seconds no one's saying that and unfortunately what you know what

you know what they're saying they're saying defund the police yeah they're saying no more choke holds right which i think is crazy it's crazy yeah if you want to get someone to be under control and you can't choke them you know what you have to do you have to hit them in the head with a baton yeah seven times and you got to risk giving them brain damage permanently injuring them if people know what they're doing i mean obviously if people know what they're doing oh we'll put a choke on they'll wake up they'll be

cuffed yeah we're all good yeah obviously but you know it's the people that are doing it wrong is the problem the people that shouldn't be doing in the first place it's untrained people it's but if you're if you're not you're a cop and you're a fight for your life and you can't use chokeholds that's [ __ ] crazy you're gonna get shot and killed or somebody else is going to get shot and killed someone's going to take your gun yeah and and the the idea of defund the police and i i i understand the premise

okay and this is once again where many people that say defund the police they don't mean hey just get rid of police of course there's a there's a fraction of people that are saying defund the police means we don't want any more police anymore there's a portion of people saying that there's some people are saying well if we defund the police we can relocate some of that money and we can do you know better schools and we can put money into the infrastructure inside these neighborhoods but here's the problem you know what the police need

more than anything else they need money for training and the way the police departments are set up they do the most ridiculously minuscule amount of training for what their job is so as you know i was in the seal teams we would train for 18 months 18 months we were trained to go on a six-month deployment cops they train they get like two hours or four hours of combatives training a year a year that's that's complete insanity insanity it's complete insanity the thing i've been saying is cops should train one-fifth of the time one-fifth of

the time you should be training whether it's two hours a day four times a week or whether it's one day a week where you're gonna go and you're gonna go through scenarios you're gonna do combatives you're gonna work with simunition you're gonna do de-escalation drills because it's really hard i mean being a cop is i think is the hardest job in the world and by the way they're not gonna have to worry about defunding the police because no one's gonna wanna be a cop anymore who is gonna be fired up to be a cop right

now who's gonna think you know what when i grow up i wanna be hated by entire you know by a massive portion of the country i want to be viewed as someone that's uh that kills innocent people the the the recruiting in cop for for police is going to go down so hard it's going to be ridiculous it's going to be ridiculous and then who are you getting there you're going to get people that are worse level people worst level humans are going to show up to be cops so the training piece though they should

do very very scenario driven training right where you come into a room and this isn't like super expensive stuff either you come into a room there's a person there they appear to be compliant you ask you you learn how to talk to them you very quickly learn that instead of yelling them out of the out of the gate you say hey man what's going on hey what's your name you know what what's going on we got a call here is everything okay you just immediately de-escalate then you learn what to do when they're not when

they don't respond the way you want them to respond then you learn what to do when they start to do something drastic what's the best thing for you and you play through these scenarios it's just like jiu-jitsu in the fact that what makes jiu-jitsu good what makes jiu-jitsu good is we can go hard against each other over and over again and not really get hurt not really get killed so you get really good at it that's what you need to do in training for police you need to go through these tough scenarios over and over

again because you do get better at it you do get better at it you become you learn how to mentally detach and not get emotional and realize that there's other things that are happening when you see the the george floyd case uh a couple of other cops too i think two of the other guys were complete rookies right they had been on the force for a very short period of time no one in that group of four obviously you got the killer himself he's he's actually conducting the act but all the other guys are not

paying attention they're they're all emotional themselves hey stay back and and they're probably watching him saying what's why isn't that guy moving and they're just caught up in it whereas if someone would have showed up on the scene or one of those guys had been through some good training in their life they would have said what's happening here hold on my partner over there has been on this guy for two minutes he's not moving anymore i'm gonna walk over and say hey man let me take over i got this go over there decompress this takes

training you have to train people and i got i saw this over and over again in the seal teams training guys you get a young kid that's coming through training for the first time and they go into a room and they're getting shot with simunition bullets or there's someone yelling and screaming or they we'd put we'd put arabic women coming walking out of rooms we'd have people get blown up with wounds we would do this to them over and over again so they realize okay i just got to relax i got to take a step

back i got to detach from this situation so i can process what's happening and i can make a good decision because as i said earlier no one is making a good decision when they're panicked when they're freaked out when they're scared as a jiu jitsu guy when someone puts hands on you you're not actually scared right you're like oh okay i know what to do here if you don't know jujitsu if you've never had someone grab you before or you haven't had someone grab you in 17 months or 14 months no one's laid hands on

you because you got a badge and a gun so people when you tell them to do something 95 of the time they go okay yeah i don't want to get in trouble but then somebody grabs you you're instantly your your emotions are spiked your adrenaline spiked and the only way to overcome that is through consistent training that that happens on a regular basis you can't just train somebody one time it's like ring rust you know you can't just train somebody one time and oh now i don't need a train anymore no you need to do

continuous training so so that fact right there we if we want to if we want to help the police through these situations we need to invest more money into them we need to get them better training we need to pull them out of the field to train and pull them out of the field to decompress because you ever done a ride-along no like you whether you're doing a ride along whether you're going into any situation where you're thinking you could be killed and even it's just a remote chance but you're doing that all the time

all the time and you're hearing you're seeing on the news you're oh you hear this oh your buddy got shot your buddy got whatever this other guy got you know take his gun taken away like that stuff happens that stuff happens people get killed i mean there's been i think there's been 31 cops killed this year 31 cops killed this year and a lot of those that's not including you know like a car accident or covid there's been a bunch of coveted but just people that have been engaged with bad guys and they got killed

so you're a cop when another cop gets killed you're thinking that could be you so that's your mindset and that mindset builds and that mindset builds and you're working 10 hour days and you're working 12-hour days and there's no training and there's no breaks where do you end up right where do you end up you end up being a little bit paranoid you end up being a little bit angry what happens when you get in a fight with your wife you know it's like all these things you add them together it's a freaking hard job

and from a from a like an entire systemic way of training and recruiting and and keeping police ready to do their job whatever that job entails because let's face it most of the time that job entails well i guess most of the time it entails hey i'm gonna go have a bad i'm about to go have a bad relationship with another human being that's what's about to happen right whether i'm pulling you over whether i'm i've been called to your house because you were yelling and screaming and people heard your wife screaming or whatever that's

what's happening i'm showing up in a bad relationship you don't like me and i already don't like you that's where we start that's where we start so we got to train people for that we also got to train them for all the times that they go into help people save people they're the first people on the scenic car accidents people are bleeding out we got to train them for that and then they have to also be trained for hey this is a bad guy that's gonna this is the guy that you just talked about at

a gas station with a weapon that wants to kill a bunch of people you got to be prepared for that whole spectrum as a police officer and yet we send them to a three month long police academy and then we send them out in the street and that's what they do day in day out day in day out it seems to me that they need to be vetted too much better than they are now just like the seals like you can't get through buds unless you are a superior human being you have to be able

to tolerate a bunch of [ __ ] that most people are going to fall apart during and this is this seems to me that this is a great way to weed out people that just don't have it yeah there's well one thing that's interesting just from a physical perspective most police departments don't even have a minimum physical requirement to continue to be on the force you have to be at a certain level to graduate from the academies but oftentimes there's no standard beyond that yeah i've seen cops before that we're like this is hilarious like

what is going to stop someone from closing the distance on you like you you ain't get into that gun yep but the mental aspect is stuff that you can get better at yes you can get better at it but you only get better at it through training right and you only get really comfortable through training a lot and yet we put these people in these horrible positions over and over and over again and we get we don't give them the proper training and now there's these politicians that because of the current social climate they're encouraged

to want to defund the police that's a great way for them to get brownie points from their constituents the people want the police to fund it which is the one it's the dumbest idea i've ever heard in my life it's it's so crazy that this is actually gaining steam to the point where in minneapolis because they're trying to quiet down the mob they've actually gone ahead and done it what the [ __ ] is minneapolis going to look like in a year from now it's going to look like mad max i mean it's going to

be crazy that's going to be it's going to be crazy it's going to be uh you know criminals will go there to commit crimes if there's no if there's no police there are you crazy by the way this jocko energy drink is the [ __ ] that's very legit right um yeah i just don't understand where they think this game ends i don't think they've planned it out they're not playing chess the the other the other thing that you know you're talking about this brownie points for the politicians and and there's brownie points and there's

people trying to create sides it's my side versus your side and that's a completely political thing right and all that does is increase the divide between the police and the civilians and and this reminds me a lot of of a counterinsurgency right so counter insurgency the insurgents are you know bad guys inside of a country the country's not bad there's some bad guys in a country so what you have to do is you actually have to go out and build relationships with the good people inside that country so that the good people inside that country

can help you get rid of the bad people what happens if you go out and this so this is ramadi iraq this is my last deployment to iraq there's a bunch of just totally normal good people iraqi people that are living in the city of ramadi what do they want to do you know what they want to do they want to send their kids to school they want to run their little market they want to do whatever that whatever is that they do that's what they want to do they have the same goal as a

normal family they're just a normal bunch of people and inside that group of people there's a bunch of bad people and these are insurgents some of them are foreign fighters some of them are foreign regime elements from saddam but they're bad and they want to create chaos and mayhem so americans we go in there if we go in there super heavy-handed and while i go to capture or kill one bad guy i kill or maim a couple of those normal civilians what happens well a couple of those normal civilians family go wait you guys aren't

good you guys are bad you guys just killed my brother and he didn't do anything wrong and then we do it again and then we do it again and then we do it again and each time that we do this we're we're creating more animosity from the local populace who by the way like i said they're just nor good normal people so what we had to do is really focus on going out and building relationships with the local populace how do we do that and one of the things this this happened after i left but

you remember the surge that took place and they sent a bunch more troops over there part of the reason that they sent that surge and part of the reason that that was allowed to happen was because the battle of ramadi where i fought went very well and since it went well people said well maybe maybe we can pull this off so they sent more troops and one of the directives that general petraeus gave is he said there can be no more drive-by counter insurgency and what he meant that by that was when you go to

a neighborhood you can't just drive through the neighborhood in your humvee in your bulletproof humvee with your windows up drive through show of force and then leave that that doesn't work what you have to do is stop your vehicles you have to get out you have to talk to the local populace you have to ask them what's going on you have to ask them if they need anything you have to build relationships with the local populist the good local populist that just wants those insurgents out of there and that's what i don't see happening and

the more we increase this divide between the police and the civilians the worse that's going to get and so the police have to start doing a better job of outreach of hey you know i asked you if you did a ride-along they should be offering ride-alongs all the time to the local kids 17-year-old kids 15 year old kids hey come and see what my job is like come and help me out that 15 year old kid he knows who the bad actors are he knows who the good kids are you know bring that kid along

on a ride along let him see what it looks like from your ankle get out meet the parents meet the families that's where we're failing to build relationships between the police and the civilians and that causes that that causes these problems i think you're 100 correct but i don't hear anybody repeating what you're saying that's what's terrifying to me i think everything you're saying is logical it makes sense it comes from experience i don't hear anybody saying this yeah and well i think maybe it's because people just don't recognize what's happening because they're too in

it right they're too in it they're they're wrapped up in it and and that's another part you know i talked about recruiting who you recruiting recruit those kids recruit those kids but you have to build a relationship with them before you can at before anyone's gonna go into the police and look the i think it's the i think it's the la police department if you look at the la police department compared to the racial makeup of la they they're pretty equivalent and they're pretty equivalent on purpose they do that for a reason so you got

to get that you got to continue to build that those relationships so that we talk to one another you know we actually communicate with each other because any time you know i'm allowed to sit over here in my area and you're sitting over there in your area we're building animosity we build that kind of animosity between each other and now the littlest thing the littlest thing i mean there was a woman that was killed in minneapolis like two two three years ago do you remember this one yes female like a yoga instructor called the police

the police called the police to report a disturbance police showed up and there's no video no footage she gets killed by the cops she gets killed by the cops it's insane that that these things happen but we also have to remember what like i said what is a police officer thinking about and what kind of training and we give them and what kind of psychological screening to your point what kind of strike and it's not just one time psychological screening because guess what people get burnt out and it happens at different times to different people

you take 35 guys in combat i've got some guys at the end of a six month deployment there you know what they're telling me can i stay longer i'm doing fine you get one month into that deployment you've got other guys that are saying hey do you need anyone to head home early right that happens so you think in a police force of a thousand people or whatever size your police force is you're gonna have some people that are steady mentally stable they can deal with it they can go they can they can be an

officer-involved shooting today and tomorrow they can go back to their job and be perfectly fine there's other people they could never work again after they're an officer-involved shooting what kind of investment are we making into this psychological health of police and look i i hope it doesn't sound like i'm sitting here just putting it all on the police because everyone is playing a role in this and one of the things that you need to look at as well is how to get arrested right there should be a public service course on how you should get

arrested this is what you should do if the cops are pulling you over if the cops ask you if the cops approach you about something here's what you should think one of the things you should think is okay this cop may not be bad this cop may be looking out for my welfare right now that's a great hopeful thought the other thing that you have to think is kind of worst case scenario this cop might be agitated this cop might be looking for somebody that fits my description this cop might might have just been in

a fight with his wife he might have just lost a partner there's a million bad things use that scenario in your head use that scenario in your head to to contemplate how you're going to interact with a police officer which is you know what they're looking at they're looking at your hands you know why because that's where the threat comes from the threat comes from your hands so when you're making quick movement with your hands don't do that listen to what they say move move slowly when you move this should be public service the police

should be putting out hey if you interact with the police we hate to have to say this but since our police sometimes are in bad situations here's some things we recommend and we highly suggest and we beg we beg that you do this we beg because what happens to these cops when they kill somebody what happens to them their their lives are totally destroyed well that was the thing about that guy in minneapolis he'd already killed people he'd already been involved and i think it's at least two shootings and he had more than a dozen

complaints against him yeah not good i mean it's obvious by the end by the end result yeah that's the the type of guy he was it's pretty obvious but the the fact that he was able to do that to a man the guy's literally calling out to his dead mother you know i mean the the type of man that can stay on someone's neck while they're doing that when all that guy did was have a counterfeit 20 bill that's it this is where when you talk about psychological yeah screening and that that's why i'm saying

it has to be it has to be constant yeah because people people change yeah right and red flags i mean like you said hindsight's 20 20 we're looking at this case now we're going oh who the hell let's this guy continue to police and by the way interestingly enough if you talk to internal affairs at police departments the vast majority of the complaints that they get about other about police are from police so they complain they report each other that's little known fact most of the most the reports don't come from the civilians out there

saying hey this happened or that happened most of the time it's cops saying hey this guy was out of line here well that's that's a good sign this it just it doesn't look rosy when i'm looking at the future i don't i don't see a way during this climate well what what scares me the most is i don't see a way if we don't talk to each other that's where there's no solution because you know look for every 10 viral video that you see of a of a cop hitting somebody with a baton or a

rider throwing something through a window for every 10 of those viral videos there's another viral video that has you know the guy with the free hugs t-shirt on that's out talking to the cops and saying hey you know i i get it and they're communicating with each other and talking and when you communicate with people it's just like a hostage rescue basic technique you want to humanize you want to humanize instead of dehumanize and right now we're just dehumanizing each other completely and that's what scares me more than anything else is if we can't talk

to each other because look you take the most hardened uh soldier in war some you know some bad ass soldier that's done four deployments six deployments whatever and you put them into a room with a kid and a mom an iraqi kid or mom or an afghan kid and mom and you put them in that room and say hey sit here for 15 minutes and find out what they're about here's an interpreter that that guy's going to come out of there going yeah i get where they're coming from it's and same thing vice versa you

take a hardened jihadist and you say hey talk to this guy over here about what he's trying to do inside your country well just just just talk to him when you open up the communications and are you going to get some extremists on both ends yes you will so maybe i shouldn't have said the most hardened uh soldier and the most hardened because at the you know what the most hardened soldier becomes a killer becomes a killer that that happens happens all the time you know i i i shouldn't say it happens all time it

happens from time to time that's how you get the milai massacre it happens the the most hardened jihadist they're not gonna change their mind they're not gonna come to any any rose-colored view of america but barring those total extremes you've got people you got a few other human beings and if you can get them to talk to each other they can find consensus they can find common ground but if they're not talking to each other then we don't move it make any progress and what to your whole kind of point about what's happening right now

there's less and less communication between people open communication because if you if you talk to uh someone and they say the cops did this this and this and you say oh okay explain to me what happened tell me what went down and then you say hey let me tell you what it's like for b for a cop being a cop when he sees that when he sees something going on you know how many domestic violence cases happen and the person shows up and they're getting assaulted by both parties so maybe that's what you're this comp

was thinking when he showed up and saw your mom in this situation and did this to your dad right like this is real conversations but we don't we don't have them and not only we don't have them it seems like it seems like there's forces that are actively trying to prevent us from talking to each other from sitting down at a table and saying hey man what tell me what's going on what forces who wants who wants the country to be divided it's the people that you're talking about earlier that that how do they score

points how do i score points with this group how do i score points with the other group it's by making making everything as divisive as possible it's it's it's horrible to watch man it's sickening to watch i was reading a whole series of tweets where there's a journalist that was talking about how um cops shooting black men is a real problem but another real problem that's not being discussed by this black lives matter group is black on black crime and how do we stop all the murders that are taking place in chicago and this this

is something that should be discussed and this guy was getting attacked and one of the one of the another journalist is literally tweeting at him saying you have been told not to discuss this but yet he ignores the these commands that that he should not discuss is a very real issue as if somehow or another bringing up another issue that is also a problem diminishes the original issue of this guy getting killed by cops which of course it doesn't yeah but this the idea is that there's problems there's real problems and it's not just the

cops killing these people there's there's look the cop killed this guy in minneapolis he didn't do anything in seattle how the [ __ ] did that [ __ ] happen in seattle well it happened in seattle because of this reactionary world where where one person does something somewhere it gets through social media it gets through the mainstream media it becomes this this huge inflammatory subject and then the next thing you know windows are getting smashed things are getting lit on fire cars are getting turned over blocks are getting taken and that's where we find ourselves

i think it was may 29th there was a cop killed i want to say in texas and he was killed when they rolled into a scene they got they got a call hey suspicious person running through the neighborhood they roll up on the scene they start a couple a few cops are now searching for this guy and they see a building with an open door they go okay let's that maybe he's in there let's go clear this building with an open door they go in this building with an open door there's shots fired one of

the cops killed one of the other cops so so just you know friendly fire death that right there if you if you take that and you just extrapolate that over how hard it is to be a police officer that you can be going into a building and you shoot one of your friends because you think they're bad that is a real problem that's how hard this job is my point is that's how hard this job is but we have to do a better job of explaining that we have to do a better job of explaining

how hard this job is as far as the uh hey don't talk about black on black violence i was trying i was talking with my podcast bro echo charles who's a black guy and we were talking about that and i said you know i think it might have a little bit to do with this if you are if you're watching ufc and there's two guys that are fighting and the round ends like just just at the end of the round all of a sudden the referee comes in and like punches one of the like like

just just muay thai kicks a guy in the head and knocks him out everyone would be completely utterly outraged about this right because of course that guy wasn't in the game what's that guy doing right so i think there's a little bit of that that's that's the the referee is supposed to not do that and when you see a cop the thought is hey that guy's like that guy's viewed as a referee that guy's not supposed to be doing this so i think that is kind of where some of that that that outrage comes from

because this is a cop this isn't supposed to be happening here this this guy is no not supposed to be killing people right and he did that's also that the cop is just a person who has this extraordinary power yes extraordinary responsibility too right what's terrifying to me is that when i'm looking at this idea to defund the police and then i'm thinking like what are these what do these neighborhoods look like if you wind up doing that and then how do you get back out of that what do you do refund the police do

you do ramp it up and do it better next time i mean this is a long process you're looking at a lot of trial and error here over you know perhaps multiple years before they figure out what what they [ __ ] up yeah and i i know there's some there's some city i think it's in new jersey that camden yes that completely disband dismantled their police but then they rebuilt a new police department and and i actually get that like you could get a department that was so completely and utterly corrupt that you said

you know what we're getting rid of all of them did you ever see cocaine cowboys no great documentary but one of the things it talks about is the corruption during the cocaine era of the 80s where the entire graduating police force the entire from the police academy the entire graduating year everyone was either murdered or went to jail for corruption everyone the entire graduating class that's how bad it was yeah so if you have that kind of if you have that kind of problem you might get his mail out you might want to dismantle that

police force you know what happens in the seal team sometimes sometimes there's a platoon that's so bad that they just they just dismantle the whole platoon how how often is that very rarely but it does happen really yep and what causes something like that usually they're well the the problem is bad leadership it's always bad leadership because you can take a bunch of knuckleheads and you give them a good leader and they'll do they'll do fine so it's always comes down to the leadership so sometimes they'll replace a leader but if the and usually when

they replace leader you'll watch the platoon will turn around almost instantly because someone steps in and says all right here's what we're doing here's how we're doing it and they they make that change but sometimes you have just like a bad platoon and they say you know what you guys are done it seems incredibly difficult to be a good leader one of the one of the more interesting things about what you're doing uh with your platform whether it's your podcast or the instagram videos you put out you're showing what good leadership is there's not a

lot of people when you look at if you get a thousand people how many of those people are going to be a real good leader well this is what's this is what has become my career after the seal teams because i got very very lucky in the seal teams very very lucky first of all my whole career was just luck i was the luckiest guy ever in the seal teams and i happen to be in the right places at the right times and i got some great experience in some very tough situations and then the

last thing that i did in the seal teams for almost the last three years i was in was i ran the training the tactical training not the training where guys carry boats on their head and carry logs around but i didn't do that i didn't i went through it but i didn't run that training i ran the training where everything i was talking about you're running scenarios you're putting people in bad situations you're using simunition you're doing all these things so i got to see over and over again leaders get put into pressure situations and

how their leaders responded and how the team responds to that leader and what these different things wash out how they wash out and what's interesting is and what i really realized when i was in that position is that their leadership is a skill and you can get better at it now just like fighting just like jiu jitsu there's certain people that have a natural propensity to be good at you got some let's say someone's really strong right they're gonna have an advantage let's say someone's super flexible they're gonna have a little advantage let's say someone

has uh they're big right these things are advantages in fighting in leadership it's the same thing let's say someone is super articulate that's helpful let's say someone doesn't have a bad temper that's very helpful but everyone is at a different level well just like you can take a bunch of different sized and shaped and athletic ability people and you can make them better at fighting you can take a bunch of people with different levels of leadership characteristics and you can improve them and then there are actual moves there's actual moves that you can do as

a leader that are just like a jiu jitsu move oh joe comes to me and he's yelling and screaming at me that he didn't get the he didn't i didn't give him two extra people to go on his job instead of me going hey joe shut up you don't know what you're talking about instead i actually listen to you right i listen you say well hold on i didn't know you needed that many people what do you what do you need them for so i show a little sense of urgency i kind of reflect what

your emotions are so i'm not just creating a fight between you and me because if you and i are fighting you and i are not finding a solution so i'm going to reflect a little bit of your emotion and then i'm going to diminish it a little bit so you and i can have a real conversation so there's moves that you can do a leader that function like a jiu jitsu move and they're very very powerful and the more of them you learn the better off you'll be and you need to practice them you won't

be good at them out of the gate it's going to take some just like if i showed you an armlock and you've never done jiu jitsu before you're not going to be able to get on the mat and do to somebody you're going to have to try it a couple times you have to learn the little nuances to the move so there are ways that leaders can get better and yes there's absolutely natural leadership qualities that make people just a natural better leader but they even those people can improve so your question of out of

a thousand people how many really good leaders there are well you have to ask okay you just talk about how many people are just naturally born great leaders you're probably your suspicion is correct it's not a huge amount but how many of those leaders can you improve exponentially in their ability to lead and that's what you don't have a company on front that's what we do all the time is we go and work with companies we work with leaders that is exactly what we do and we take companies of i mean we work with companies

that have 150 000 employees and you start getting everyone all the all the leaders aligned and getting the front line troops understanding where the where the leadership is and what they're thinking and so you can become a much much better leader over time now how much of this do we see in the civilian sector how much do even more directly how much does this do we see in the political world the answer is an unbelievably small amount i mean it's a ridiculously small amount yeah it's a ridiculously small amount why is that i bet there's

a there's a lot of reasons first of all who who at this point in in the world thinks that that sounds like a great job right hey i'm gonna go get attacked from all sides i'm gonna have my personal life picked apart i'm gonna get you know make i'm gonna work really hard and really not i'm gonna have a pay cap on how much money i make there's all kinds of reasons why becoming a politician doesn't look like the best job for for most people that would look and say hey would i rather be the

ceo of a company and make a ton of money and make create a huge product and leave a big impact and influence thousands of people that work at my company in a positive way or would i rather go and get ridiculed and get broke down and have to try and get my job again in four years or two years or whatever the case may be it's a that's a tough job too and a lot of people say i'm not gonna why would i jump into that game well i know i say that why would i

jump into that game why would i want to go and be a politician right now right it's crazy like for me to to for me to want to go into the into the political world there would have to be complete and utter chaos in america i mean way beyond beyond where we're at right have you thought about this yeah i mean i'm telling you what i think when because people ask me oh you should do this you should do that i say um you know we're not at a point where we need this we might

be about four days away from we could be i think the answer you know let's get let's get uh dwayne the rock johnson i agree with you he's he's the guy that could really i think unify people and i think he would have to run as an independent i recommend he does it right now right right now he should be like yeah you know what i'm in i think he would win i think he would win i really think he would win as an independent he's obviously a smart guy he's super articulate he listens you

can tell that he listens i mean when you see him interact with people he's he's very genuine how he interacts he's built businesses right he's built big well uh really uh productive businesses that are doing great he he's i think he'd be great he's got a fantastic work ethic he got a fantastic work work ethic that he you know he built he came up from nothing right he had seven bucks in his pocket we all know the story and and he has more bucks in his pocket than that now so and most important i think

i think he's just a popular guy you know he would get up and and when the country's going through hard times you know i was talking to a friend on the way up here and they were saying hey you know peop people want leadership and they're looking for it and and they're not hearing it and a lot of times people don't even recognize the fact that they don't have leadership that you don't even recognize it's a leadership vacuum so they don't even know what they should be thinking let me give an example you're let's take

a seal platoon seal platoon raids a house there's some explosions there's some gunfire and no one's really sure where it's coming from and no one's really sure what to do now that individual a lot of the individuals in that platoon are just kind of holding on security they're holding they're not really sure what to do and they're not really even recognizing that there's a leadership vacuum but then someone comes in the leader the platoon chief the platoon commander comes in and goes everyone get to the roof right now and everyone goes oh cool now we

know what to do so same thing happening in america right now there's no kind of voice saying hey everyone this is what i just saw on this video this is what i just saw this was a heinous crime this obviously we have some deep rooted problems that we need to fix here's the way i'm going to move forward addressing these problems getting to the bottom of them and here's how long the timeline is going to be and by the way my ears are open and you know where the place you know where i'm coming right

now i'll be in minneapolis tomorrow afternoon that's you know like oh we got a problem like that if we have a problem like that i am going on the ground i will be there i'll be there what i'm the guys i'm the president so i'll be there in what two hours i'll be there on the ground i'm gonna find out what's going on i'm gonna meet with people we're gonna talk i'm gonna listen i'm gonna find out what this means i'm gonna get to the bottom of these problems that's that's what then you can actually

speak from a position of okay i just spoke to these nine people matter of fact they're coming with me we're gonna come up with a plan we're gonna come up with a plan together you know that's another huge leadership everyone thinks in the military that that the leader's sitting at the top going all right gentlemen here's what we're gonna do we're gonna approach this building from the west we're gonna assault the front door no that's not the way it works that's not the way it should work the way it should work is i say to

you joe i say hey joe here's the target i want you to go after tonight come up with a plan and you say okay cool and then you if you're a good leader you get with your team and say hey guys here's the target we're going after how do you all think we should do it and now you all come up with your own plan together and then you come back to me and say hey giaco here's how i want to do it and i said looks good and maybe if i got to make a

little adjustment i say hey make this little adjustment here or maybe use this weapon over here or whatever i make little tiny adjustments but it's still your plan and from a leadership perspective that means you are you and your team are totally bought into the plan you made it up as opposed to me coming down and barking orders at you and telling you how we're gonna do it doesn't work i mean i can force you to do it because i outrank you no i order you to do this that doesn't that doesn't fly you know

how many times in my entire military career i said hey i'm the boss you better do what i tell you to do you wonder how many times i said that zero zero times no one thinks like that so in a leadership position what you have to do is say hey i'm gonna come i'm gonna find out what's going on i'm gonna talk to people and we're gonna put together a plan to figure out how we're gonna get this solved this is not acceptable in america that sounds fantastic but what if you're a republican and they're

democrats and then you get on the ground and you have a mayor that's non-compliant you have a governor that disagrees with your strategy they don't want you there in the first place they want to work it out themselves they want to defund the police they're voting unanimously to defund the police they don't like what you're saying cool okay if that's where we're at right now let's let's come up with a plan let's see how we get through this here's some things i'm worried about because if you if you're telling me you want to defund the

police because you think that this police department is completely and utterly corrupt okay let's let's explore that because you could be right you could be right this is where a lot of leaders make a mistake where it becomes an ego thing especially like you're talking republican and democrat so that means if i'm a republican no democrat can have a good idea ever and if i'm a democrat no republican can have a good idea ever that's completely wrong that's completely wrong so even right now like when you threaten me right now right now you're like hey

what if i tell you i want to defend the police and i tell you i don't want the cops now you tell me all those things as a good leader you know what i'm going to say all right there must be something really bad going on here beyond even what i just saw on this video i'm coming and i want to hear what's happening and i want you to tell me what your suggestions are and if your suggestions are to defund the police let's explore where that where that plays out let's see where that ends

up because as we start peeling back the layers even the most even the most ardent anti-police person you're going to get to a point where you say okay when my house is when when one of your constituents house is being broken into who are they going to call what what mechanism are we going to put in place for security how are we going to keep people safe from crime and then they've got to answer that question and and maybe they come up with a good answer i don't know yet but as a leader you have

to listen to other people's ideas and we have to you you absolutely have to do that there's a saying from patton leader on the front line is always always right the leader on the front the leader on the front line is always right so i've always tried to embrace that theory not just from a leadership perspective but even from a human perspective you know when you want to tell me something that i don't know about i'm gonna listen to you i'm actually gonna i'm actually really gonna listen to you i'm gonna try and ask myself

well let's see joe lives in this city and joe's here with this community and joe is telling me right now that we should have no police here well could he be very emotional yes he could does that mean i should not listen to anything he says no it doesn't means i should monitor your your emotions and i should take that into account but i should also be saying there's got to be some core of truth to what he's saying now is it possible that joe's just a bad actor and just evil yes it is how

do i know that unless i listen to you their answer is you don't you know what i'm hearing right now jocko and the rock 20 20. that's what i'm hearing come on son i think i need you yeah well um i really hope it doesn't get to that point saying all makes fantastic sense but the problem is everybody is so partisan it's so difficult to get people to work together and people are so there's they've so much invested in keeping this party divided by these party lines keeping the country divided by the the right and

the left it's it's it's so nuts it's completely nuts it's completely nuts and when you hear the extremists on either side you you should say to yourself you should say to yourself they want us to fight right it's like you know here i'll i'll i'll drop dime on myself i'm a big like when i was a kid in the seal teams i was an instigator if i could if i could talk smack to two different people and let them start to get escalating like they wanted to fight i would do that all day long especially

once i started training people jiu jitsu you know i'd i'd be the guy that was saying oh he thinks he could take you now because he trained for two weeks you haven't been here and you said that you know i'll do that all day long escalate so we have to do that because it's fun to watch people fight to the death that's what i did when i was on fear factor it's always instigating people oh it's fun yeah there's there's some level of fun to it yeah but fighting to the death is this a different

kind of fun yeah but when you recognize that when people on the extremes are telling you extreme things that what they want is to create a divide that's what they want so that you just go you know what i just can't have that so i'm voting here or i just can't have this so i'm voting here it's it's a nightmare it is a nightmare it's a very difficult one to get out of you need real leadership to get out of it and that's just absent right now on both sides totally absent and there's no middle

ground no no there's no one that says well you know i i you know i like some of trump's policies right someone says that it's like oh just destroy that you must be a nuts yeah or you know i agree with i agree with nancy pelosi on this thing you must be you know a communist you know either way but that's the way that's where we're at yeah that's that's why unfortunately well fortunately fortunately but if if the rock was going to run i think he would only i think he would have to run as

an independent right to just say listen i'm not down there are some things i agree with over there there's some things i agree with over there so you know what i'm doing i'm going in the middle which is where most of america is so if you want to vote extremist you can go to this side other extreme you go to this side everyone else vote for me when was the last time someone even won as a governor that was an independent was it jesse ventura possibly minnesota yeah possibly it might have been him i mean

you never even hear about it yeah well that's there's a whole like money thing that happens right there's a whole money thing where if you're not a republican or a democrat you're not going to get those big coffers full of money to put paid advertising out and hit get people on the streets to vote for you yeah you don't have the machine behind you you don't have the dnc behind you or the republican party yeah it's um it's a real weird situation we find ourselves in with no clear path to sanity no there's no clear

pla path to sanity if we don't talk to each other and right now we're not no we're not i've seen uh you know the people are so just angry and just angry when you talk to him about this stuff just anger comes out it's horrible it's horrible to watch yeah what what disturbs me is that i don't see i mean in the past when there's been disputes or things have been wrong it seems like there's a clear path to to sort of work things out it doesn't seem like a clear path it seems like every

day kind of gets a little worse like people get ramped up even more and then there's this event that's looming on the horizon this november event this election event and no matter what whether it's left or right whether biden wins or trump wins is going to be madness and chaos it seems hard for me to understand that biden could it could maintain his health you know through a presidency that seems very challenging to me yeah i mean it seems like he's been going down you know with his coherence level you can kind of see it

over even months right yeah he's on a really really rapid downward spiral it seems stressful for anybody except trump for whatever [ __ ] reason that guy eats it up but for most people running for president alone just the grueling just the schedule that's involved in traveling and doing all these speeches and it just breaks them down i mean one of the reasons why hillary lost was she just wasn't willing to travel as much there was all these different events that she was supposed to go to she just couldn't go she couldn't take it anymore

she thought she was going to win anyway so she just stayed laid back yeah yeah it definitely is a brutal thing but it's really also just completely insane that the two candidates are these two people well yeah first of all that the best that democrats could do i mean they had all these other people that were well-spoken he seemed like young and healthy and there's you know there's so many that is hard to comprehend yeah right extremely it's really hard to cover that yeah that you're looking at these this group of whatever we have 350

million people 320 million people in america and this is this is who you end up with yeah i mean [ __ ] anybody but biden anybody i mean we don't even know who his vice president is right that's going to make a big deal that's going to be a big difference because the vice president is compelling and interesting he says he's going to pick a woman whether he picks uh the problem if he was going to pick klobuchar but kobachar was responsible for a lot of those guys skating in minneapolis so well that's not good

and then if he's going to go with kamala harris tulsi gabbard kind of took the legs off of that lady yeah so then who's left mayor pete he seems like a guy who's just you know like he's got a playbook he's kind of like following this obama playbook and i just don't feel it from him at all at least he's gay we'd have a gay guy in office that'd lighten people up a little bit i believe that we had a powerful gay leader i think it'd be great for the country like i think you know

like the the one of the things about obama being office beside the fact being obvious beside the fact that he's very articulate and educated and just a well-spoken statesman is that it's like hey look we're making progress we have a black president like i felt that i felt like a wave across the country people like you you can be present in this country like even if you're born out of a single family single mother family and you're a a black guy you can you as long as you got the goods you can make it like

this is great this means we really are living in a meritocracy and that would be great if there was a gay guy that had the same experience like like all the people that are homophobes like yeah but that [ __ ] mayor pete he's got me he yeah he i i'm not the bible says but you know what [ __ ] the bible i'm voting for that guy he's better than trump i mean that would be great but he's just i don't think he's the guy maybe he's the guy some dave he's also a young

guy right so who else who the [ __ ] is there especially since it's gonna be biden and he said it's gonna be a woman he's definitely not gonna go with tulsi she's too [ __ ] dangerous yeah the the democrats are scared of her she doesn't play games which is so crazy i know she's got everything everything they want woman of color congresswoman served overseas uh two deployments yeah she's got everything she's super articulate super artistic she's level-headed super level-headed very intelligent yeah but she's just not corrupt she's got this one problem that's the

one problem i mean other than that you look at it like jesus christ this lady she's willing to talk to people on the other side she's you know she's a a states woman she's a you know the way she speaks she speaks like a leader they won't even consider her she's too dangerous well so who else is there i'm going back to uh dj dwayne the rock johnson yes that's what i'm saying independent yeah as an independent yeah and dwayne and jocko 2020 come on man we need you uh it's it's very very it's very

horrible and and when i see all this divide right this is one thing that just two two have been in the military and have been on the battlefield and fought alongside guys of every background every background that you can imagine white black mexican whatever puerto rican asian they're all everyone's out there everyone's out there and by the way going to memorial services for these guys overseas there's not one thought in your head there's not one thought in your head that's thinking oh underneath the flag on that coffin is that a black guy or that a

white guy not one thought in your head is thinking that in any way shape or form all you know is that that person took a bullet got blown up that could be me they took that for me and to come back here and and now see this this this country being ripped apart it's that's the most horrible thing for me this is something that gets discussed a lot by guys and teams and by different guys in the military period that when you've served overseas with with these guys that racism becomes the the least the least

considered thing it's you your brothers because you're literally the consequences of your actions the consequences of your day-to-day existence is so so dire life and death it's the the most drastic consequences that we are aware of there's nothing you're losing your life or you're not or they save you or they don't you're brothers you're all together but in this world the consequences are less grave and the requirements of people are less extreme you're not as tested you're not your character is not as exposed you are not as you're not as vulnerable in that sense and

because of that i think people are more outraged and they're finding more reasons why we're separate more reasons to divide us more reasons why the they're different from us whether it's because of ideology or skin color you know sam harris has a podcast where he's discussing all the different things and he brings up one really great point the podcast that's out now he said could you imagine a world where we we think of color the same way we think of hair color like the color of people's skin's the same way could you imagine a world

where i don't trust redheads you know i don't those people with dark brown hair are [ __ ] creepy to me you know all the people in my neighborhood that are blonde they're all shady like that seems so preposterous well one day the goal would be so great if one day that's how we feel about all skin color that it's no different than hair color it's just characteristics that you were born with you have no control over who you are is what's important that's it yeah and i think that's that's what that's the position that

the military puts you in it puts you in this position of look i got to rely on this guy i gotta rely on this guy and if they're reliable i'm down i'm good if they're not reliable i got a problem and it doesn't matter what color they are it doesn't matter what their it doesn't matter any of that it's like is this person going to be there is this a good person that's going to be there to back me up and that's all we care about and so for me this is like super regressive to

be going through this to watch the country go through this and think how did wait wasn't i just 10 years ago like overseas with a bunch of guys and we didn't care about any of this didn't didn't didn't enter into our minds we're not looking at it all the time and i i guess part of it is because you gotta you're in a fight you're in a struggle and and right now let's face it in america there's not a lot of struggling happening right we're kind of making our own struggle right now exactly yeah and

i think one of the things you've talked about that's very important is that a lot of this divide is because of this really shitty way of communicating whether it's through social media or whether it's through reading stories or watching videos it's a terrible way to not just get in for information but it's a terrible way to interact with people like the way to interact with people is the way you and i are doing it right now just talking to people and i think the vast majority of problems would be solved amongst reasonable people if they

just talked through they just talked to try to figure out you know you know hey man i didn't like that you did this well what did i well all right well i was thinking when i did this here's what you're right here's why i did it and this is what i was thinking and i was wrong because of that and if people could just say that and people could accept that and people could shake hands or hug it out rather than have a [ __ ] twitter beef that leads to a gunfight i mean literally

that's the the way we exchange information with each other back and forth through social media is the absolute worst way people can talk you're not looking at each other you don't get any social cues you don't feel any empathy towards that person you're not in front of them you're not there and you're looking to see how many people agree or disagree who's liking or dis because it's a public thing right so how many likes do they get their thing got 400 likes mine only got 20. [ __ ] am i wrong here it's it's just

a terrible way for us it's it's a newfound way for us to communicate and a terrible way for us to communicate it's not we're not designed for it this is not how we evolved we evolved to communicate with social cues and to look at each other and be around each other and you know you could say something to a person and uh you you you're both laughing or you see it written down the same way and you're like that guy's a [ __ ] [ __ ] yeah even from a leadership perspective you know we'll

talk about this a lot with hey you know i sent you i'll send you an email you know that says hey joe can you get this project done next week thanks and you're in a bad mood when you read that you know you're go who the hell do you think you're telling but if i was like hey joe can you get this project done by next week we really need it i'm looking at you and kind of give me a blank stare and i explain it to you a little bit more and all of a

sudden it turns into a perfectly good conversation exactly when i send you that email or in this case a tweet right then you you hate me yeah it's like we got management to do right yeah you gotta you when you want something out of someone or you want you want some things to get done you gotta manage that person's personality and mood and you gotta manage the relationship that you have with each other and you have to be proactive you have to you have to call what's up man how you doing everything good you're good

like they have to get a good feeling out of you yeah and they're going to say listen i gotta ask you this favor i need this thing from you and then and then you're rolling and everything's good exactly if you don't do it that way then people go [ __ ] this guy oh this guy just wants things from me or this guy's annoying or you know th these guys treat me like a [ __ ] exactly yeah the uh world through zoom right now so we're doing a lot of zooming so my company has

long front the just the video alone increases your ability to communicate right massively it doesn't get all the way there right but just being able to look at someone and have a conversation with them as opposed to either just a hearing on the phone or absolutely so so that idea of hey i'm actually going to sit down and talk to you i'm actually going to sit down hey i'll meet you the r like we pivoted obviously once you know we used to go into or we still do but going into businesses and working with them

shaking hands how you doing talking to them and then all of a sudden in three days we were doing everything online everything hey just meet me on this zoom call and you can get there you can get 97 effectiveness just by looking at someone and talking to them you know like i said there's a little percentage that you're still not going to get but if you think you're going to communicate effectively through social media tweets you're just freaking wrong yeah that's one step below email right yeah social media tweets is one step below email email's

one step above that phone calls is one step above that zoom is a step above that another layer person to person is the best first person that's what we're designed for everything else is just it's and and that's what's leading to all this [ __ ] madness and chaos a lot of it is fueled it's weaponized by by social media tweets and yeah because by the way when you send me a tweet to be to be an [ __ ] to me i i actually just retweet that and tell everyone what an [ __ ]

you are a bunch of people retweeted as well look at mayhem oh god we're not we're not working together we're not we don't we're not working together right that's another thing that kovit did right all of a sudden we took everyone and isolated them you're not you're not seeing them you're not talking to them so now everyone is almost strictly communicating by these methods that you're talking about yeah this is horrible horrible for society horrible for society the uh the idea of coming to work in a place right the idea of hey i'm gonna show

up and work at a place with other people that is such a huge part of getting back to where we need to be like when you pull everyone out of work and you and there and and even worse and i'm not even just beyond covid you know what happens we've moved all manufacturing overseas right so all those people that used to go and work in the same place every day that used to show up and have a common mission and a common goal they don't have that anymore much of the middle class doesn't have that

anymore they used to have it they don't have it anymore and that's interestingly china's middle class is growing right now why is their middle class growing because they're manufacturing they're making things they're filling that void of people that have that level of skill set of hey you know what i just got out of high school i can't afford college so what am i going to do right oh well in china well you can say okay well i guess i'm going to work at a factory hey it's a horrible sweatshot it's do whatever we need that

they need to improve their their conditions but hey these people have a job they have a purpose they're moving in a certain direction in america we've kind of on a massive scale gotten rid of that class of people's purpose and that's a big focus for you right with your company origin in particular yeah which uh by the way i got the boots they're [ __ ] dope you guys make great [ __ ] it's like really high quality really beautifully manufactured stuff like and there's something very valuable right now about american-made it used to be

this it was very divisive like you said american made like what are you xenophobic you don't like foreigners what the [ __ ] is wrong with you but now you realize like oh well with covid you know we were cut off from even getting goods and supplies from other countries and then we were getting so much of our medical supplies from china and then we're getting so much of our vaccines and medicine all these different things manufactured by china you're like hey why don't we do that here well we used to but i was cheaper

buy like a dollar a thing to send it over there like oh christ and people are realizing now there's a there's a great benefit to making things here in america and it's not just this idea of national pride national pride's great but also like you don't you don't have to go anywhere to get things and you keep jobs here yeah and i think uh kanye west is looking to build same same thing as we're doing he wants to manufacture stuff in america why because he knows when you have a bunch of underprivileged kids the best

thing you can provide a bunch of underprivileged kids is jobs jobs that they can entry-level jobs i know when i was a kid it was almost like hey if you're not careful you're gonna end up working in the factory right that's what's gonna you know you can end up working in a factory no one wanted a factory job the thing is so so that kind of became a mantra oh you don't want to work in a factory you better go to college well there's first of all factory work has changed there's jobs that people do

in a factory that takes a massive skill set and the boots you know the origin boots we were probably a year two years three years from losing the knowledge of how to actually do that and luckily my buddy pete has started you know grabbing people that know how to do it and passing that information down to the next generation so we can actually be a self-sufficient country and we can bring back those jobs of people that look that's a that's a proud way to make a living these are craftsmen like you said these are craftsmen

and crafts women by the way our factory is mostly filled with women and they're out there they have a skill set they're learning a skill set there's there's upward mobility as you get better at your job as you can do more things you can make more money and by the way you're making something you're making something with your hands you're producing something here in this country that's just like well it's like when you go hunting when i go hunting you get something for yourself there's a certain feeling of being self-sufficient and america on a large

scale especially during covid we look up and say wait a second we can't even we can't even make that stuff we don't even know how to make that that's a nightmare well the boots in particular think think about if you started from scratch like if i started from scratch i don't know [ __ ] about how to make a boot if i had a it would take a long learning curve of figuring out how to make an excellent boot that fits right is well made and durable like those boots that you guys sell like i

was going over i was looking at this thing i'm like they [ __ ] put some time and effort into this thing like this is a really well crafted piece of art i mean it's it's it's functional artwork and that knowledge because that's not that's not that's not our generation i learned that right we're we're pulling that information from the old shoe dogs up in maine that are 60 years old 70 years almost you know out of the workforce having to bring them back into the workforce to to educate the younger generation on how to

actually do this we got a kid up there his name is cameron oh he's 22 20 a young kid and he has learned now how to weave the material for our geese so he's the guy that knows how to weave material this is the bro this is so complicated where do you see all these different pieces of string coming together get this big machine with so he's got like a loom yeah he's got we've got looms up there but we had to get the knowledge right from the old timers that said okay let me show

you how to do this and like you just said how long would it take to figure out a loom on your own first of all i think i would fail because i don't think i'd have the patience if i just had this machine to look at so capturing this knowledge so that we can become a self-sufficient country again it's got to be paramount in what we're doing and it's not just it's not just hey because i'm pro-america yes i am but if if we want to get rid of the kind of social unrest that we

have right now hey in ramadi you got a 15 year old kid that's putting a roadside bomb in the road you know why he's doing that is he doing it for some big ideology no he's not he's doing it because he's going to get paid 50 by the insurgents he wants a job he wants a life he wants to make money what happens in america what happens with kids in the inner city that are underprivileged when they don't have a job what are they going to do what are they going to do they're going to

fall into oh maybe i'll sell drugs maybe i'll commit robberies whatever i'm going to do but they're not doing it by choice in many cases or if they're doing it by choice it's because they don't see any other choices to even make so we've let our manufacturing go away and now we've got voids we've got voids where people don't have an ability to make an income and that's that's that's that's just a complete loss of pride right if you don't have the ability to earn money to take care of yourself to take care of your

family if you don't have that ability what are you going to do you're going to figure out how to make it happen it's so short-sighted too i mean it was all done for just a small amount of profit per item small amount of profit per item and it it cost the country so much yeah and and and then the then the narrative became we're not able to do it that's why we don't do it we're not able to do it that became the narrative well you know even the big corporations would say well you know

we'd love to we'd love to make stuff here but it's impossible it's impossible well that's ridiculous completely and totally ridiculous it's also like you when you go through detroit and you realize that detroit at one point in time in the early 20th century was one of the richest countries in the world or excuse me one of the richest cities in the world you you go through it you realize okay this is where they're making all the [ __ ] badass cars all the amazing american cars of the 60s and the 70s they were all made

right there and then they [ __ ] up someone made some decisions to save a little bit of money and make a little bit of money and completely short-sighted didn't look at the economy as a whole didn't look at the nation from a position of a patriot someone who looks at the country in the whole what's best for the country they just said what is the best way that we can maximize our profit well we we need to set up factories in mexico and china and all all these other places we can get people to

work for nothing you can't buy a [ __ ] cell phone that's made in america all the people that design and engineer cell phones for apple they're right here they're not making them here there's not a [ __ ] single cell phone that's made in america try buying one that's made with all american parts all american labor in america what no such thing it doesn't exist and what you're going to be told is it can't be done that's whole language cannot be done that's what's cool about elon musk oh watch this yeah exactly i'll make

cars here i'll make them awesome i'll make rocket ships whatever that guy's [ __ ] tunnels under the earth yeah we need a couple more of those dudes yeah it's uh it's it's good that people are opening their eyes though it's good that people are realizing because of the pandemic and because the fact that all goods and services that were being imported on a daily basis were shut down and also people are terrified of getting things over there what are you gonna spray everything down and everything's infected and what do you what i'm scared what

do i do yeah but the medicine is the craziest one the fact that we rely on china for some ungodly percentage of all of our medicine like holy [ __ ] guys like is this the right way to do this just for profit yeah it's it seems like we got a little bit lucky with covid yes like right a little bit lucky because it turned out to be not not bad did you ever get the antibody test no [ __ ] i should have tested you today sorry because you think you might have had it

right i'm so the end of january right right as this thing was kicking off i did a live tour i did austin then i did washington dc then i did new york city seattle san francisco and l.a every event shook hands and bro hugged between a thousand and two thousand people that's what i did at the end of january i went to the the absolute like ground zero locations for kovid and just just bro hugged and talked to a bunch of people and shook hands and you know just got after it and then i got

sick uh yeah like a week later something two weeks later i guess it was february i was sick and i was like gee i wonder what that is and then and then march came around and we started the the the sick like it wasn't real bad it wasn't real bad but it was it was you know it was bad enough that uh you know i i think i might have skipped like i'm just gonna stretch today because i really feel like crap for a workout type of thing so i didn't get i wasn't down hard

i wasn't you know i didn't miss any i didn't miss anything but i felt bad and so i figured that was my that was my coveted experience my wife got sick my son got sick two daughters in college and my young daughter didn't get sick at all my ten-year-old daughter didn't get sick at all so that sounds like it yeah but yeah did you have it or not no i didn't i'm making a [ __ ] text right now i'm gonna get a doctor in here in an hour and a half when we're done i'm

gonna i'm gonna make this happen because i want to find out you would be the only guy that's tested positive if you did no we had uh tim's buddy what's his name ben he didn't false positive then we tested him again yeah i think it would be i think it would be crazy if that travel schedule that i had sitting on all those airplanes from and to and from all those different airports in all those airports that's just that's just crazy yeah all right i'm asking right now can we get one at 3 30. i'm

gonna make it happen that was another you know we're talking about egos the the the scary thing about the whole covid unraveling was that the leadership wouldn't say hey you know what i actually think i was wrong about this and we're moving in this direction now right not just leadership but everyone right everyone just hey no you know what i think i was wrong here but maybe we need to adjust this here's so you didn't get to see that that's a great point because that that really was a failure of leadership because it was very

clear at some point in time when they found out when they did the large-scale antibodies test particularly in california and they were like jesus christ hundreds of thousands of people have been exposed to this this is not what we thought like and the amount of people that are actually sick instant result back um you're dead the the amount of people that um that actually tested positive for the antibodies was way higher than they thought it was and the amount of people that were actually hospitalized was way lower and then they looked at the average debt

that people died it's actually older than the average debt that people died yeah yeah my son pointed that out to me yeah we shut down the [ __ ] economy for that yeah i i guess i was was a little bit whatever i was pretty i was pretty cavalier through the whole thing our buddy dr pete yeah he he was he was a little nervous well he was way nervous because he was in early right and when you saw the early stuff when you're like hey it's one out of every 10 people are dying right

but even he was making adjustments he said wait a second in italy there's different cities that was i think where he started changing his his attitude he said wait a second in italy there's different cities and in some cities they're really compressed together and people are old people living with young people in the same place and oh wait a second we need to separate this out and then it just hey it wasn't as bad thank god yeah thank god it wasn't as bad and uh my buddy andrew schultz had a great point he said basically

covet exposed weaknesses in both business and in people's health that's what it really did the the the lockdown did because there was businesses that literally couldn't survive a week without money coming in well that's a that's a badly managed business or a business that has a very small and narrow profit margin and then there's people that literally can't survive any sort of disruption in their immune system their immune system is shattered one of the things that came out of it that i found out from dr rhonda patrick was that 70 percent of america is deficient

in vitamin d 70 29 is severely deficient to the point where like they're they're like they have medical issues because of a deficiency in vitamin d yeah you got to get on that you got to get on the vitamin d for that to get on the vitamin d and the best way to get it is to get out in the sun yeah and that's the one thing you weren't supposed to do the whole thing is [ __ ] madness it was a perfect storm yeah it's like when the plague in the black plague they thought

it was they thought it was cats they thought cats delivered the plague to everyone so they killed all the cats but it wasn't the cats it was the rats and the mice and so when you killed the cats guess what happened to the rats and the mice they went insane so almost the same kind of thing you see unfolding yeah and no one's saying hey you know what actually we're wrong here hey you know what and what about the masks so this was crazy well i got some buddies that texted me they said hey there's

this thing coming you origin you guys should start making masks just to just to cover your face and i said oh okay i don't know anything about this stuff i talked to my buddy pete i said hey it sounds like that we're gonna need to make masks and he says okay so we we start thinking about hey how would we make these things and then a couple days later the government the government comes out and says mass don't do anything don't worry don't wear mass don't get masks so i talked to peter said hey man

it looks like this isn't good it looks like we don't need to do it because it looks like it doesn't help at all five days later they're like everyone wear a mask at all times and by the way we're gonna pass laws that require you to wear a mask i'd call pete i'm like it looks like we need to make masks you know and we ended up making 100 a couple hundred thousand masks and we were we were sending them to this is the weird thing we're sending them to hospitals like we donated thousands of

mass to hospitals and and and then you know two weeks later it was like no actually they don't do anything i still don't know well it's hard the problem is people get shamed and the the world health organization came out and basically said the only reason you should be wearing a mat where's the cdc now the world here fauci said us government held off promoting face masks because it knew shortages were so bad that even doctors couldn't get enough so is he just saying that now this morning or today since we started so guess what

you all every we all got lied to we all got lied to held off on promoting face masks because it knew shortages were so bad but even doctors couldn't get enough recently the cdc said the only people that should be wearing masks are people that are treating covet patients and that regular people shouldn't be wearing masks and then the world health organization said that asymptomatic people it's extremely rare that they transmit to other people so we were worried about asymptomatic people which is the reason why we kept kids out of school and we were worried

about overwhelming hospitals which is why we did all this other stuff as well which is what drove me crazy about my kids school i was like hey you [ __ ] this doesn't even kill the kids it's killing the kids get killed by the flu meanwhile you don't even scan the teachers or the staff or anybody people have the flu they don't want to miss a day of work they just [ __ ] show up and give it to everybody that's normal and kids actually die from the flu and it's not a small number it's

not a small number of people that die from the flu last year was 62 000 i mean it's not as many as covid but then you're hearing you're hearing two camps you're hearing one the the covet deaths are actually under reported because a lot of people die from covet and they don't even register it okay boy i guess it's worse than it is and then you're hearing no no actually we're getting incentivized to report deaths as kovit elon musk on the podcast said if you got killed by a shark but you were covid positive they

were listed as a coveted obviously he was being facetious but not entirely because there's a lot of people with leukemia that also had covet listed as a covet death obesity heart attacks listed as a covid death because they tested positive for covid cancer also had kovid covet death yeah i mean [ __ ] that's really disturbing you know when you hear those statistics then you see these things that they're saying and just the lack of trust that you end up with the government exactly when the government is already people just generally don't really trust the

government a lot right right there's no one that's always thinking the government has always giving him the straight skinny and it goes back to this click baity [ __ ] my wife pointed out this story yesterday where she's reading about this kid that died 17 year old kid perfectly healthy it says she reads into the article type 1 diabetes type 1 diabetes is not perfectly healthy no that's really sick and [ __ ] dangerous and you have to take insulin to stay alive yeah and think you can get complications from diet like oh everyone's living

type 1 diabetes diabetics can live real normally and then they can have an instance that causes them to die yeah they can have their foot removed yeah there's all sorts of [ __ ] that goes wrong when you have diabetes your immune system is severely compromised but it's like we're our information it's not pure we're getting all this muddy thing and fauci telling us the only reason why they told us not to wear masks is because they knew you didn't have enough like holy [ __ ] how many people died because of that you [

__ ] and then the world health organization says actually no one died because of that you don't have to worry about it you really don't need to wear a mask like [ __ ] what is happening the i think so much of this ego plays so much into this of people might want to admit they're wrong here's another thing that people won't say i don't know right i don't know like as a leader i've been in situations where i did not know this is how i tell leaders all the time i say listen tell your

people the truth about what's happening by the way we're seeing examples where this is factually not happening inside america right now if you're a leader tell the people the truth about what's going on that's what you need to do and then people come back to me and they say well what if what if i don't know what what if i don't know the truth then what you do is you say hey i don't know the truth hey guys i don't know i don't know exactly how this is going to play out these are some contingencies

that i'm preparing for that is so much more acceptable from the troops than when you try and pretend like you know what you're talking about it turns out you're wrong right i mean trump does this so much that people lose track of it right where he thinks something and he just goes out on a limb he just walks right out on a limb and says hey this cove itself will be gone in a week yeah and and you know then he just saws off the limb behind his foot he does that all the time it's

it's a good example of how not to lead because then people start to trust you less and less and then when things like this happen where you find out that they actually did purposely now think if they would have said this like oh we're worried about we don't have enough masks then you know what you come out and say you come on you say listen everyone we're not a hundred percent sure what the masks do for people but we do know this inside of a medical environment we have to prioritize getting those people that are

absolutely exposed these masks that is why we are going to put some kind of a control over who's allowed to buy them you just tell the truth well that was kind of happening at some places like amazon was only doing that they weren't the only selling those what is it n95 yeah they were selling them only to hospital workers and there you go they were allocating them along with uh other types of hand sanitizer and a bunch of different things they were selling specifically to them first and first responders perfect example yeah what you don't

do is say hey everyone don't worry about it right right but if him if he's saying that like well hey [ __ ] oh now we can't trust you ever again exactly yeah that's that's the freaking problem you're looking at this guy next time there's some kind of disease next time there's a problem how do we know if we can listen to you there's also a thing he was saying a couple of weeks ago the united states doesn't open up soon we could we could face permanent damage like oh economic damage yeah permanent economy you

think yeah and i'm like hey hey hey hey how come you didn't say this before how come you didn't say hey we have to weigh in the pros and the cons here yeah you know you you should have and this is actually something i uh i talked to peter t about it i said hey it seems like maybe some people should be quarantined and other people shouldn't and he's like yeah absolutely so like my dad who's an older guy who's you know he's an older guy compromised immune system guess what he should be isolated he

should be quarantined should my 17 year old son should my 20 year old daughter my 21 20 18 year old my 10 year old should they be in isolation should they be quarantined absolutely not absolutely not hey first week two weeks where we're hearing it's a ten percent bother you we're hearing all these things cool you can make a you can make an in-extremis call you can say hey guys i don't know what's happening but in italy it looks real bad guess what we're gonna do we're gonna shut down for two weeks i'm sorry but

this is what we're gonna do and you go the nation says ah okay okay we get it and then two weeks later you say you know what it looks like it's it really might impact our medical systems we're gonna shut down for another two weeks just another two weeks everyone goes you know i gotta pay my mortgage but okay two more weeks and then you say then you gotta then you gotta have the courage and the ability to put your ego in check and say you know what thank you maybe may not have been necessary

we don't know right now but it looks like we can start opening back up let's rock and roll the other problem is once they tell you what to do they don't want to stop having that power and control oh yeah our governor literally said wear masks because then we can get back some of our freedoms yeah you're gonna give away freedom you got that kind of power maybe i should run for governor yeah i didn't know i could just control freedoms you got my vote give away freedoms the the business is surviving right you're talking

about the businesses surviving there's a lot of businesses that especially little businesses right little jiu jitsu schools little restaurants you want a restaurant to operate on 50 capacity that you restaurants aren't making this kind of money where they can throw away 50 of their profits 50 of their capability to make money they still because they still got to have that cook yeah that cook is there the dishwasher's there right there's your bare minimum yeah and they got to be there no matter what if you serve 50 people great if you only serve 25 you don't

make any money yeah so there's all there's going to be there's a lot of businesses that run that day-to-day you know month-to-month paycheck to paycheck to try and stay afloat that's the that's what america does and sometimes they're able to creep out of that and they get ahead and that's awesome that's how you end up with these big powerful companies yeah i've had a couple of restaurant owners in uh adam perry lang who owns apl steakhouse and uh janet zuccarino and evan funke who own um they own uh feli well he she owns felix janet

owns felix and uh he's the head chef and they were explaining to me profit margins and uh it's [ __ ] crazy it's it's when you you really look at how difficult it is to run a restaurant and all the decisions that have to be made and you know food goes bad if you keep it too long and you gotta buy a certain amount of food you anticipate a certain amount of customers you gotta know your customer he was explaining you gotta you we we know our customers so i know most of them are not

gonna order this so i'm gonna have certain amount of meals that i'm gonna have of the fish and more meals of the steak and the pasta's primary that's what most people are coming here for and like [ __ ] and then you tell them oh you can only open up at 60 percent and waitresses have to wear a [ __ ] hazmat suit and you know it's like god damn man what are they 10 15 5 profit margin i think they were saying 14 is how they operate um but it's difficult it's very difficult and

you know people don't want to spend too much money on meals you know and so they it has to be kind of engineer like how how how can you how can you do it right and janet has had a ton of successful restaurants like she's a wizard at it i mean she's been doing it straight out of college and her problem was she was in the process of building multiple restaurants so all of her money were out even though she's extremely profitable and very very successful at all these restaurants she's building out all these other

restaurants at the same time with that money because she knows how to make money she knows how to run these businesses so she's doing it so she's got a jamaican restaurant she's got an italian restaurant she's got all these things happening and then boom the government tells you you have to shut down that's yeah that's uh the the profit margin so there's so many bits you know because we work with all kinds of different businesses yeah and the profit margin on many many businesses is really really lean one of my favorite examples is big construction

companies the big construction companies that are doing you know 500 million dollar projects or you know 700 million dollar bridges and coliseums and stuff their profit margin is like four percent holy it's like six percent that is so insane and they're you know ordering concrete and they've got to have it show it up a certain time and then the rebar wasn't in place like it's crazy there the margin for error is so small and there's so many businesses that operate like that and a lot of times i think some of the people in government they've

never been in business before right and so they don't understand that for them hey just operate at 50 capacity inside your restaurant you'll be fine that's a very good point and they've never run a business you know i have a jiu jitsu gym we got shut down so now now we're now they're telling us hey you can allow people back in the gym they just have to be six feet apart we can't do jiu jitsu six feet apart you can't do muay thai six feet apart so what are we supposed to do now and by

the way what about oh you want us to check people and we want to have this there's all these protocols that are putting in place to have someone come into the gym so now we gotta hire extra people we gotta hire extra cleaning staff because the gym has to shut down for this period of a day and they need to re-clean everything like obviously the people that are making these rules have never been in it never been in business before yeah telling a person who is running a jiu jitsu gym the people have to be

six feet apart the jiu jitsu is zero apart zero feet apart zero zero space that's the whole goal of jiu-jitsu yes it is smash it's the whole goal take your body and smash someone's body with it the whole idea is no space yeah that literally is the foundation of jiu-jitsu a pressure applied with no space and this goes back to the idea of as a leader taking the information from the frontline troops and saying how you tell me what's a good way to run this you tell me you tell me what's a good way to

run this and let's see if we can figure out a solution i would really want to talk to jiu jitsu gym owners and my suggestion i've never run a jiu jitsu gym i've been in a shitload of them my suggestion would be have people fill out a waiver so they waive their rights have people fill out a form that says i have not tested positive i've showed no symptoms of illness i i promise that if i do i will not train and i will get myself tested testing is readily available now you know for a

long time we were getting shamed because we were testing people yeah i was i was tracking angry that we were testing people like look you can test people too you [ __ ] just like you could buy a steak it just costs money you know are you mad that people have steak and you can't afford a steak well you know there's people that they're different stages of life you know in this game called society and capitalism and an advance you start off at square a you know everybody starts at a different spot granted but i

started at the bottom and you figure out a way to get a [ __ ] task and if you're in a spot right now in your life where you can't have a test well definitely don't go and expose yourself until we know what the [ __ ] it is but don't get mad if people can afford tasks you crazy [ __ ] yeah and what we're at right now with jiu jitsu gyms is you should have a form that you fill out just like when i was at a restaurant i went to the lonesome dove

restaurant shout out to them in austin texas fantastic place they make you fill out a little form it says uh you haven't been tested positive you know you don't you're not sick you're not showing any symptoms you know they do a little temperature check check your forehead oh you're looking good all right come on in sit down did they pack you in or to keep you no they could be a little bit separated but that was two weeks ago and uh there's another place uh gus's fried chicken shout out to gus's best [ __ ]

fried chicken on earth in austin texas we went there two weeks ago and you couldn't eat there you had to wear a mask in the restaurant and you had to order take out so we got take out then we came back again yesterday yesterday no [ __ ] mask everybody's in there sitting all the seats are packed they strongly suggest you wear a mask and no one's listening no one wore a [ __ ] mask the waiters aren't wore masks but it's like things are getting different there's another restaurant red ash that we we ate

at uh saturday night that place uh had 75 capacity and you had to wear a mask until you got to your table and then you had to wear a mask again if you had to go take a leak you got to put your mask back on take a leak come back and it doesn't make any sense it's like they're just there's health department guidelines and people they're trying to open up and they don't want to get sued they don't want to get people mad and like we're we're trying to protect everybody but we don't know

how to do it and it doesn't matter what the science of you you could show them an article that shows that masks are [ __ ] and they're still going to tell you but you're still going to wear your mask because we're playing a little game here we're playing a game called keep people safe nobody's saying a goddamn thing about take your vitamins drink water stay healthy work out get out in the sun no no the government never says that you don't hear governor knew someone is [ __ ] goofy slick back hair he's not

telling you to go work out and get in the sun it's going to be a i think america can only take so much and i kind of said this from the beginning like you can keep america in lockdown for a little while two weeks four weeks and then people start saying you know what i gotta go out i gotta go make something happen i gotta do something i gotta earn money and it's the people that are looking around saying uh well i don't really need to earn anybody right now they're the ones that are saying

everyone stay in your house and don't come out and wear a mask all right we got a doctor coming at 3 30. no i told him i think i got you a positive this time he's wanting to get a positive he's like oh he hasn't got anything goddamn healthy people in here yeah i've had um now i've had i think i've had seven no eight tests one two three four nose swabs i've had four yeah four nose swabs and four antibody tests i haven't me personally i've still come out negative every time but the other

thing that he said and this doctor's a very smart guy and a young healthy guy he said that doesn't mean you haven't been exposed to it it means your immune system did its job really there's another thing that people are saying people saying oh well you just got lucky you haven't been around somebody who had it it was no no many of the people that i tested are positive are in a family where the other people that are also in that family are negative so they have it they've been around these people for [ __

] weeks and they don't get it why because they have a better immune system particularly children so i guess i'm in a win-win situation yeah because if i had it if i tested positive it was like see no factor it powered through it you beat it now even if i didn't have it i'm gonna say hey see i beat it yeah i'm gonna win win yeah i know well depending upon what your results are i know nine people that have had it now and out of those people only one of them had it bad and

that was my friend michael yo and he got it bad from if it's real easy to track he flew all the way to new york no sleep what was the date he was in january january jamie no early february or late january march march the show in new york was marked very beginning so end of february end of february he was here and then he went okay so he left here that weekend went to new york no sleep right flask in new york does radio does tv also does his comedy gigs no sleep does gigs

the next day same deal does promo all this [ __ ] flies back home no sleep gets up in the morning drives to vegas with his wife and kids the [ __ ] kid screaming in the car drives back home that night hangs out with his wife's family in vegas and drives back on that so eight hours in the car just that day then the next day he's got auditions day after that he's got auditions and then boom hits the wall and he's [ __ ] and he feels like [ __ ] yeah and he

felt like [ __ ] by the way his mom got it she also tested positive beat it in a day how long was he down for he was down for a week but he ran himself to also vitamin d deficient and so all those things ran himself down vitamin d deficient doesn't take care of himself so like but but he caught the perfect storm of exhaustion and travel travel [ __ ] you up it [ __ ] you up yeah and i uh leading into this i was trying i've been traveling all the time my

whole life matter of fact the lockdown is the law most consecutive nights i've ever spent with my wife since we've been married and we've been married for 20 years most consecutive nights because you know i was in the navy i was deploying i was going on trips and then when i retired i was working with consulting all over the place it's not amazing yeah so it's been kind of cool hanging out with my wife night after night all right these are fda approved kits too so we're good so we're totally good we're going to find

out for real fully legit doctors pumped what do you think do you think i you think i've had it or not what do you think yeah i would say because your kid your youngest kid didn't get it get sick and then the other people did get sick but no one got it badly and i know your family's very healthy i know your your daughter's a savage your son's a savage i would imagine you probably had it thinking about all the places you've been i bet you i bet you test positive for the antibodies i know

a few jiu jitsu guys have got it but they all just got coughs yeah oh yeah plus plus on top of all this i'm in my gym you know i was in my gym oh yeah you know we got all kinds and we we have a lot of people that show up at my gym because they just want to train they want to come check it out yeah and my gym is big you know we've got 2 000 members right yeah it's 2 000 members because it's not just victory mma and fitness in san diego

california but you know so it's a big gym yeah and you know every thousand members that means they're all interacting with you know three or four other people outside of the gym if not five or ten people so and they're literally sweating in each other's mouth completely oh yeah that's another thing that's another indicator when i got sick my main training partner this guy andy andy burke i trained with all the time he got sick and then his girlfriend got sick he was also a jiu jitsu fighter uh mma fighter she got sick too so

yeah we'll see i'm curious it's hard when you train hard you get sick it's part part of the the thing too when you break down your body and your your immune system gets you know when you're one of those guys that trains really hard you do have a tendency to get little colds because your immune system gets tested here's something i've noticed when i have downtime like let's say this has happened to me a few times i'm going to montana and i'm i'm super stoked i'm going to go up there and chill right as soon

as i get up there i get sick really it's happened to me like maybe three times where i i finally have four days or five days where i you know don't have anything scheduled to go up there i'm gonna shoot my bow i'm gonna chill and i get up there and it's like my mind switches and all of a sudden i get sick it's like i saved up illness to where i know i can be allowed to get sick does that ever happen to you no but there's a good argument there for like just the

way your mind controls your whole system yeah because your mind is just like pedaled through the [ __ ] metal slayer in the background yeah everything is go go go and then when it's silence your body's like [ __ ] what have we been up to i feel like that happens i was wondering if it ever happened to you because it's it's it's happened enough time that i'm talking about it right my best example is cam haynes that [ __ ] is never sick and if he's sick he still runs anyway he's just got like

a little bit of a cough but out of all the people that i know i don't know anybody who who's consistently putting in the kind of hours every day that he does oh yeah he runs 16 miles every [ __ ] day yeah sometimes a marathon sometimes a marathon every day while he works eight hours a day and then he gets home and lifts weights i mean it's not like he runs and he gets his reps in he gets his reps in with his bow every day and he's lifting and he's lifting every day every

day he doesn't take days off that [ __ ] guy's never sick if he's sick it's like the next day he's running again you're looking at his instagram it's hey it's a great day to run out there i did i think there's something to forcing your body to consistently and constantly perform totally yeah imagine uh like olympics right you're in the olympics for wrestling let's say and you've got your whole entire life is on one day if you get sick like right anything bad happens that day yeah you're done yeah those big moments like that

are [ __ ] when you're you're so stressed out too so your immune system is is super jacked but i think there's a there's a thing about peaking for a big event whether it's a fight or the olympics or something versus maintaining consistent conditioning they're very different things like a good example is tim kennedy tim kennedy went through uh i believe two camps in a row camp fight got cancelled kept training went through another full camp and then when he fought calvin gastelum he that guy's never tired and he was gassing out in the fight

and there's a real good indication from all involved that was because of over training i know that when i would train fighters you could absolutely see when they would overtrain it wasn't a big question you'd go in you'd have a fighter that's whatever level at let's say let's say jiu jitsu because i'm trying to jiu-jitsu with them and every day you know they're they they feel a certain level and then one day you come in and you train with them and they're just they just suck and i would tell them it's like hey man two

days off go eat some steak because you would know 100 percent that they're over trained yeah 100 what do you tell vegans two days ago eat some steak yeah i would tell them definitely eat some steak you need that steak get some get some steak in you yeah just give him an elk just give him just a one good piece of back strap just just try just trust me just eat it and run through a [ __ ] wall yeah that's the really weird thing about watching people go through camps through fight camps and you

know i really i basically don't train fighters anymore like i used to just because i don't have time anymore but you would you would work so hard to make sure that on that night that they're there yeah they're there and some people get in the cage and they do better than they would normally do some people get in the cage and they don't do as good and you got you know jeremy stephens a great example because especially when he first came out started training with me and he's not he's not with us anymore but when

he first started training us like he was a white belt in jiu jitsu but man when he got in the cage he would just elevate man like mentally psychologically elevate and he would perform way better in the cage and then i've had other fighters that you'd get like they would be kicking people's asses in training and then they get in the cage and it's a down step and it's so hard to see that so hard it's because sometimes those guys are very committed and they're working hard and they're doing great and they just get in

there and just it's a psychological thing you know some people are dwarfed by the moment it's very interesting to see it's uh some people are also afraid of the embarrassment of losing that's a big one and they can't trust the process they can't just they can't just remove themselves and just go out there and fight do you follow muay thai at all a little bit but not to any great extent there's a guy who uh george st pierre brought into uh his training camp when he was doing the ultimate fighter uh john jean-paul garbowsky and

he's this french savage muay thai fighter who uh would basically get drunk every night and showed up at uh training at uh gsp's camp drunk like he was out all night he was in vegas right so the ultimate fighter's in vegas drinks all night shows up in the day the next day and [ __ ] everybody up and they're like this is so embarrassing like guys were like devastated like this guy literally came in holding he's got a cup like from like one of those to go cops from one of the vegas clubs he showed

up in the morning see if he can find it because it's kind of hilarious looks like a guy who should be driving an uber okay he's not built like a savage he's just his mind is just he's got the i don't give a [ __ ] and he's got it down yeah and uh was a you know world champion muay thai fighter beat champions at limpini stadium in thailand and just a amazing fighter well you know you always hear about the comparisons of a black belt you just do versus a wipeout right somebody doesn't know

anything and it's real real obvious but when you get at a high level of muay thai it's very similar maybe not quite as similar because there's always this idea that well you know i at least know if i throw up i at least know as a human how to throw a punch at least there's some idea right there's some like a normal human has no idea of how to do an arm lock zero you at least know have some concept of how to throw a punch so there is like a puncher's chance but i remember

the first time i sparred with a real muay thai guy i was i felt like a white belt i was like oh okay because i would think about throwing a kick and i would get you know kicked myself i would think about it and get kicked oh he knows exactly what i'm gonna do just like a white belt jiu jitsu you know you you can predict everything that they're gonna do there he is so yeah he shows up i mean look no six-pack i mean literally looks like a guy if you saw that guy show

up be like this dad bob [ __ ] just just he's he showed up straight from the club i mean you can kind of tell he's drunk and he gets in and starts training with these guys and see even get to some actual training footage because they were they were humiliated i mean he was ragdolling these dudes and beating the [ __ ] out of them and dropping them and it did it looks like nothing but but it's the the problem you know he's a world-class kickboxer and these guys just really have no idea how

to handle his movement and the the skills that he has yeah people underestimate people don't think there's as much of a difference between like a black belt in jiu jitsu and what would be considered an equivalent you know world champion and muay thai oh yeah this is a big deal step step in the step in the ring and see how that works out for you guys sometimes get cocky about that i had a buddy of mine he was taking an mma fight and he wasn't doing any striking he was doing very little striking and he

was a really good ground fighter and i said do you know how you can toy with a guy on the ground and they really have no chance he goes yeah i go people could do that to you standing like you have to understand that the fight starts standing it's not like you start like it's not ebi rules where you start on a guy's back and you know you have a really good chance of submitting him if you've got a great rear naked choke this is not that yeah this is you start 20 feet away from

the guy and you're standing and you know you have to close that distance you're not a great wrestler either yeah well that's the key component right yes it's a giant factor because if you if at least if you wrestle you can go well at least i know i have a decent chance of taking them down yes a decent chance and even that's no guarantee anymore well i go back to mark schultz when he fought in the ufc you know when mark schultz fought in the ufc he only found one ufc fight but that's when we

got to see like a world champion olympic gold medalist top of the food chain wrestler you're only on your feet if he wants you to be like you you good luck throwing that punch or kick because you you have no chance he's going to close the distance and drag you to the ground unless you have really good takedown defense and back back then when he fought big daddy goodrich people didn't really have it unless they were wrestlers they didn't really have good takedown defense it hadn't really been established as like a part of the the

whole skill set of mma yet you basically had what you came in there with you're a karate guy that's what you had your muay thai guy that's what you got you got to hope you land that elbow before that guy clinches with you and there is a there is a overall strategic advantage to grappling yes because you can close the distance and if you're going to punch me you have to get close enough to you you have to make contact with me which means i can grab a hold of you and get you down that's

why that's why the early ufc it was like oh you're gonna have to get close enough to either punch or kick me and when you do that i can grab a hold of you and get you to the ground also the chaos factor especially in a street fight the chaos factor is like bodies are flying there's bad timing the clinch is happy it's not like every you know you'll you'll watch the occasional street fight where a guy tees off on some drunk guy and you know lands the perfect punch and knocks him out cold that

does happen but you know what also happens melee wild [ __ ] misses and then someone clinches and then the worst thing in the world is to fight a grappler who's good at takedowns when you're on the concrete that is the absolute worst thing in the world you get suplexed on your head on the concrete i mean one of the worst things that could ever happen you're basically getting hit in the head by the world yeah well this is why i to when i talk about you know people say well what kind of self defense

you you always say jiu jitsu for self defense but you know you shouldn't let a street fight go to the ground here's here's how it works out if you come to me and you want to fight me and you like square off like in a boxing stance i can run away from you right i can just run away i can just run away i'm going to get away from you i don't want to fight you if you want to kick me i can run away from you like there's my primary self-defenses i'm just going to

run away from you when you grab a hold of me now everything's different i can't run away anymore now i have to actually know how to handle myself in a grappling situation so that's why i start with jiu jitsu and look absolutely learn boxing learn muay more time learn wrestling absolutely no doubt about it but the very first thing you need to learn is because if you want to fight me i can run away if you square off and you know you put your dukes up and say come on or you push me good i'm

running away that's fine i'll take that but as soon as you grab a hold of me now i got a problem because i can't run in a weight run away real problem is the ego where people don't know how to fight and someone puts their dukes up and they decide to see what they can do they decide in that moment to either fake it or just like see if they can possibly hit the guy and then they get banked yeah somebody tease off on them yeah i think that's uh i think the the whole thing

with cte right now that's why i think the popularity of jiu jitsu is going to continue because it's a large part of fighting same with wrestling grappling in general i think is going to continue to get more and more popular because because of ct because you know as a parent you're not looking hey i really want my kid to be sparring a lot when they're 13 right no there's not too many parents that are saying that right now it's not a good idea yeah so i think but you still want your kids to know how

to fight right so how are we going to do that well we're going to teach them jujitsu and wrestling and let them have that base and then if they get older hey should they know how to throw punches absolutely should they get in the boxing ring sometimes and do some muay thai matches absolutely you should absolutely do that as a human but you know you can do that when you're 17 maybe 16 you can start getting that stuff in but the kids jiu jitsu i don't think there's anything else better for them i completely agree

and i think with martial arts with striking it's good to know just to know distance just to understand where you're safe and where you're not safe and understand tells understand what's happening when someone does this when someone does this and then this is coming when they do this this is coming like you should know that because some people don't know that that you you should know how to protect yourself how to keep your hands up how to duck under things you should know that it should you should understand the timing you should understand distance and

timing those are important things but [ __ ] swinging knuckles with some guy in the street is so goddamn dangerous because first of all you don't know what he knows and you're everyone's vulnerable everyone every person that gets punched in the face is vulnerable and if you just want to have like some sort of a kickboxing mattress a man on the concrete like i don't advise that no no i i advise clinch and trip yeah i advise get out of there yeah get out of here yeah definitely if someone wants to start some [ __

] with you you're absolutely better off just swallowing your ego and getting the [ __ ] out of dodge i that's the warrior kid books yeah teach those kids hey there's going to be problems there's going to be bullies if you can you don't need to fight them yeah and what's oh i have somebody hit me up you know because i'm always telling people change you just you trained jiu jitsu had somebody hit me up you know i've tried it uh but i don't i want to try it i tried it a couple times but

i don't like to fight and i'm like hey if you don't like the fight to fight you more than anyone else should learn jiu jitsu because if you know jiu jitsu you probably your chances of having to fight will go down a lot just by the way you carry yourself just the way by by the way you present yourself the chance of you having to fight go down a lot also with jujitsu you're involved in real life struggles the thing about like karate sparring and a lot of point like light sparring is it's not the

real chaos that comes with an actual fight whereas jiu jitsu is full blast someone's trying to get you it's full so you get used to full blast you get you get accustomed to it you know what to expect if someone swings for you and you clinch with them you know what it's like to resist with a 100 non-compliant body you know someone's like [ __ ] i'm really trying to get away from you really it's not like play sparring yes you can go full out len you know where this brings us right back to police

officers yes well andrew yang said it best he said i think that every police officer should be a purple belt oh that's purple belt that's an incredible statement it's a good level right it's like an attainable level within a couple of years but with a couple of years man you've got your ass kicked you've kicked some ass you've you've like a purple belt is basically a black belt who hasn't done enough time yet that's all it is i mean once you've got past blue belt like blue belt is i've put in the time i've learned

how to do some stuff and maybe i'll do this i might make it i might make purple belt like you basically everybody who gets a purple you want to grab them and go hang in there you are a [ __ ] black belt what's better to say and you're a black belt in jiu jitsu you're gonna be a black belt in jiu jitsu just keep [ __ ] going you you already have exhibited enough technique that you could actually one day achieve that just keep going yeah the amount of confidence and and mental clarity that

cops would have if every cop was a purple belt oh it would be amazing amazing nothing better that we could do than to to somehow make that happen yeah good idea for uh andrew yang the horrible video of this guy involved with this lady and he's he's a cop and he's talking to this lady and she's non-compliant and he grabs her and he [ __ ] brute strengths her to the ground and throws her on her stomach and then gets in a rear naked choke and people are filming this and yell it's a terrible rear

naked choke he tell he sucks the whole thing is terrible like i couldn't imagine a black belt ever handling it that way ever ever first of all you wouldn't be so threatened by her she's not physically threatening at all and you wouldn't want to bully her and to show her that you could throw her around like that it wouldn't happen it wouldn't happen fear right that's fear kicking in and it's fear not only of his ego but he might be legitimately when's the last time he put hands on somebody i mean if you put hands

on people a lot you know you don't have to do what he did in that situation the video but you don't you know you know you don't have to do that i think he's just a [ __ ] when i'm looking at the video i'm like i just think he just wants to throw his weight around which is another thing you wouldn't do if you know how to fight that's part of why a lot of people act like that is because they really don't know how to fight and that's really they really don't know how

to do that to a grown man so when they're doing it to someone who they can do it to because they're just bigger they they do it they'll force them to impose themselves be a bully it's it's horrible to see but you wouldn't you could see a black belt doing that to somebody the amount of confidence that he had exactly and it's the same thing with kids you know i i posted something a few months ago but it's you know some some bully thing had popped up and then i said hey if you want to

stop bullying um you know have kids train jiu jitsu muay thai wrestling they should have it in school they should be teaching kids in school and here's the thing people thought i said not only will it prevent them from getting bullied it will prevent them from bullying yes which people don't understand people cannot comprehend what that means and it's exactly what you just said if somebody actually knows how to fight and you've been humbled and you've been beat down and you've been choked and you know what that feels like and you know what it means

and you know how that feels the chances of you look you could still be an [ __ ] but the chances of you becoming a bully are way less way less than if you're insecure and scared and have a you know trying to make up for your ego by abusing people that's who becomes bullies with kids and with adults 100 the more the more you train the more secure you are the smaller your ego is the more you're able to step back and see things clearly you know that's one of the horrible things about that

the george floyd was the other cops they're not detached from the situation they're all wound up in it and jiu-jitsu teaches you and fighting teaches you that if you do that if you allow yourself to get wrapped up into stuff you're gonna you're gonna make bad decisions i think also for kids a lot of the reasons why they do horrible [ __ ] is because they have too much [ __ ] energy oh they're all jacked up with young hormones oh yeah testosterone yeah testosterone and and angst and angst and bro it's kind of fun

right you know like you it's kind of fun like there's mayhem going on yeah and what is that the right word am i a jerk for saying that i don't know when i was a kid that kind of mayhem i wanted to be a part of it you know if and and actually i was talking to one of my la cop buddies and i was asking him the difference between like the the 92 riots was it 92 or 93 ronnie king those those riots and these riots those riots he was like those were the people

that kind of instigated and started and perpetuated those rides those were real like gangsters like shot callers were making those things happen this one these riots were he was like yeah these are kids these are kids that drove down from riverside these are kids that you know and and sure some of their some of their attitudes was like hey there's been you know injustices against police we want to stand up to that got it and then he said of course there's a criminal element as well that are legit normal robbery crews that are saying oh

cool we got some good cover right now let's get in there and make some you know steal some stuff and we probably won't get caught but that's that's a a big difference so you do have an element of kids that are like oh there's some mayhem going on there's some mayhem going on guess what 17 year old boys like they like mayhem they like mosh pits right you love that stuff that was my childhood if there was some mayhem i wanted to find it right and that's that fuels these things normal boy behavior normal boy

behavior especially when those boys are getting told don't come out and they're being locked up in houses right now with their feet they've got freaking steam coming out of their ears and then all of a sudden the cops are going to stand down while you smash windows and steal [ __ ] and everybody can get free sneakers yes it had nothing to do with george floyd it had so many things to do with so many different steps so many different factors that have collided together on that one day yeah yeah it's it's man i don't

know how this one ends up man i don't know how it ends up either it ends up with me getting the [ __ ] out of l.a gone huh it looks like it gone looks like it i don't i just don't see the benefit i want to come come back and visit a lot but it's just it's just not not a smart place you know i'm unfortunately managed either i'm rooted here unfortunately by the ocean yeah because i'm an ocean guy yeah and so there's really limited choices in the world yeah it really is yeah

that's a problem you know they kind of got me you're that connected to the ocean what is it about the ocean that you you always post pictures of the sunrise in the ocean [Applause] i don't think there's you know going surfing just going just going in the ocean and plus my my life was kind of being in the seal teams was always we always had that that was part of our life you know part of our life was the ocean growing up in the ocean just there's some i don't know you know i guess i

guess for me it's a huge like nature thing right you know people you should be you should go outside go outside and go hiking a mountain you know go go to montana and hike around see what that feels like go to go to idaho check that out go to the mountains go to california mountain city you feel different you feel different you feel humbled you feel small you feel perspective so the ocean does that for me and it's just mind clearing right you go out surfing like your mind is clear it's kind of like jiu

jitsu hey you got to get out there you you don't even know what you sometimes you don't even you know you get done with a good role in jiu-jitsu and you say well hey you don't barely even remember it because your mind is just gone you're just monkey mind zen this is total zen state same thing with the being in the water for me surfing same thing like oh i'm out here and my mind is just empty it's monkey mind and and i think that's really good for you plus the fact it's humbling plus the

fact it's healthy so yeah i just have a a strong connection to the ocean i know my son's real watermen you know he's out he serves all the time i'd hate to do that to him and then my little daughter's getting her surfing on so yeah it's just one of those things man yeah i get it there's a reason why surf towns like like towns that are near the ocean are chill you get humbled by that like you take yourself seriously look at that [ __ ] body of water over there stupid yeah you ain't

[ __ ] uh you know people say well what makes the seal team so good in one of the major components is the ocean because when you've got to do an operation that involves the water it just sucks it just everything about it sucks everything about it sucks you're getting in a you know you're parachuting from a plane into the water it's night time you got boat you just freaking parachute like drifting around you got to get your motor started it's freezing cold boats flip over then you got to drive that boat to the beach

and you got to drive through the surf zone your weapons are covered with sand you're freezing cold it's just everything sucks everything sucks about it so when that's kind of your starting and by the way you haven't even conducted your operation yet you haven't even started the operation and you're freezing cold you're tired your radio got flooded out your night vision goggles are freaking filled with sand everything sucks and now you've got to conduct your operation so in order to survive that way on a regular basis that's one of the things that makes the seal

teams good is we're we're used to this one additional component all the time that you always have to deal with you have to figure that out you have to be able to gut through it that's why in basic seal training they just put you in the water for a long time this puts you in there we have to develop an attitude that embraces the suck oh yeah yeah for sure you actually enjoy it in some way some crazy way that you know it sucks like that video that i always quote your video good dude i

listen to that in my head all the time and i'm listen i've watched the video a ton of times and listen to it i've played it on this podcast at least four times but i hear it when i'm training like if i'm running hills and i'm [ __ ] exhausted and there's like another 100 yards to get to the top of that hill i hear good good good you exhausted it means you're [ __ ] doing it yeah good well suck it up what what are your what's your choice what else are you going to

think about cry you know cry curl up in a ball no it's like no actually good bring it let's make this happen yeah and if you can do i also do that in the sauna when i'm exhausted in the sauna and it's like 190 degrees and i'm 19 minutes in and you know doing a 30-minute session i'm like good good sucks that means it's going to have a great effect on your body you're going to get that hormetic effect this is how you get the heat shock proteins [ __ ] hang in there good it's

if you want to if you want to do something that's worthwhile yeah it's going to suck yeah it's just gonna suck and you might as well just enjoy that part of it yes yeah i mock myself too that's the other thing i do oh you make fun of yourself oh all the time yeah i get pissed at that little part of my brain i'm like oh really you think you're gonna think i'm gonna listen to you yeah not happening not happening i i did these like these i put these things in the kids books you

know what i mean put those things up you know those kids books like there's a one of the kids books talks about this hill horrible hill you know like this what's this what's going to face horrible hill and dude what are you going to do you know it's going to suck just got to do it yeah you just do it but the thing is it's always sucks while it's happening it's always [ __ ] horrible but then when it's over it feels great that you got through the suck and i don't think most people who

don't experience suck they don't experience that feeling of conquering suck yeah and that's the that's the important thing to try and remember right so you remember it i remember it i remember what that so even when it's sucking i'm like i know how this is gonna feel i know how this plays out and you know what actually i know other feeling you know is when you don't do it yeah and the end of the day comes you're like dude that was pathetic you didn't even you know you and that's just the worst feeling that's the

feeling that really makes you sick and so between that carrot and stick carrot being like i know this is going to be good and stick me i know at the end of the day if i'm putting my head on the pillow and i was a [ __ ] that doesn't feel good i don't want none of that that's the worst feeling of all time it's being disappointed in yourself like it's also when you're a type of person that wants to achieve and so you're always trying to get things done you're always trying to push yourself

when you fall short because of cowardice or because it is the worst feeling that or or just just failure any kind of failure the reason why you would one of the reasons why i mean at least i can speak for myself personally i do things so hard is because i've felt that sting of failure i you need to know what that feels like especially when you quit you need to know what quit yeah see that's it you need to know in your own and you need to hear that that [ __ ] sting feel that

sting so that when it comes up again you're like not today [ __ ] not today i've been here before keep going keep going find a way but there's something about good like just even saying it it makes me smile it really does it works it really does work because it's an attitude changer and i use the sauna sauna is really easy it's not that bad it's just [ __ ] 30 minutes you just deal with it but there's something about those last 11 minutes that you can get in your head like [ __ ]

me really i probably get the good effect if i just leave now there's like all these little mind games you play but if you just say good does it suck good yeah i started start smiling you can rationalize a lot you can start rationalizing of why well you know these last four minutes won't really make that big of a difference a shift in perception and i always notice that from listening to music when i run like there's something about listening to a great [ __ ] song when a great song kicks on when you're running

like if i'm i'm running in ted nugent's stranglehold comes on you know there's something about stranglehold because it also has like a double meaning right it's jiu jitsu [ __ ] hat you know you like this so when you hear that here i come again now baby i can run i can run i can get extra energy like where the [ __ ] is that energy coming from well it's coming from my mind right the music stimulates my mind it kicks in those endorphins and then all of a sudden i got an extra gear yeah

well how come i can't just conjure up that [ __ ] extra gear i think you can you you gotta figure out how to do that all the time yeah that always is horrible to see like in a in a fight when a guy either he loses a fight and after he lose the fight he's raging he's all mad but he was just gassed right he was just gas where was that where was it where was that right there yeah two and a half minutes ago yeah i mean sometimes it's just overcoming anxiety for fighters

sometimes it's just when it's over and the plug is pulled you know it's over and they're like [ __ ] yeah and then they're angry and raging because they realized they failed they didn't manage their energy correctly they didn't manage their mind their anxiety yeah exactly the same feeling of [ __ ] loser i'm so hard on myself man everything i've ever done wrong everything i've ever said wrong just everything just i i could i'll be i'll be in the middle of working out sometimes and i'll think about it and go [ __ ] but

that is also that that's what makes yourself yeah and that that keeps you going that that makes you achieve it's like people think that it's easy to just kind of go out there and get things done but it's not it's that's why most people don't do it yeah you know i i so i don't sleep a lot right and sometimes people are like and look i'm not saying you should shouldn't sleep everyone should sleep as much as they can i don't sleep a lot people like hey no why don't you sleep more and i'm like

bro i wish i could like i wish there wasn't this little thing in the back of my head going hey hey you know you're actually that you could be doing a lot more right now what about this what about that what about the other thing like that's what's going on in my head there's not something that's going uh uh gee i have to get up like no there's a thing in there going you better get up you better get up they're tracking on you they're watching you you better get up yo it's happening there's a

bad guy out there he's training harder like that's what's in my head it's not in my head like oh no no hey please let the freaking let let the freaking powers of the world allow me to go into bed at night and just pass out and be like oh i'm i'm good i'm satisfied with my life right now i wish i could feel that for freaking eight hours a night it ain't there it ain't there it's like oh people talk about staying hungry i'm [ __ ] starving i'm starving all the time ah all the

time like stay hungry yeah you have to like ah yeah i know it never ends it doesn't end that's the thing and as soon as as soon as i get somewhere as soon as i get somewhere i'm like um where else where i need to go i need to go somewhere else yeah about getting soft yeah yeah always no matter what i've ever done it was one day there'll be a thing where i'll become satisfied and calm no with everything that's good that comes now there's an equal fear of becoming a [ __ ] there's

a fear of now becoming lazy and becoming like second rate and just like god damn it there's no end yeah there's no so now i don't even think there's an end no there's definitely none of them yeah that's that's what's funny about shooting the uh shooting the bow right is what's what i find funny about shooting the bow is anger aggression really doesn't help you at all at all you know what it [ __ ] you up yeah that's what i'm saying because anger and aggression is all fast twitch [ __ ] too it's all

movement whereas the bow is like you got to have the mind of no mind you got to just just execute and just stay completely focused on the task totally detached from what's happening yeah and you just got to sit there and it's a new skill really oh it's totally new and for for me like in the competition that i experienced the only competition i had other than inside the gym um you know training partners is fighting and that's all fast stuff it's all like explosions and movements so any time where there's danger and and anxiety

and fear your body's geared up to go quick and move quick but with hunting it's the opposite when you're drawing back on an animal all that anxiety like you better get that quick out of your head yeah there's no quick there's execute and calmness stay in the zone nothing is exists other than the process of executing the perfect shot it's the same thing with shooting you know you have you draw fast you move fast you drop fast and then as soon as you punch out that weapon you gotta go boom and like you just gotta

let that thing go yes you used to see guys myself included like you ever shot headplates before yes like yeah and you know there's six headplates you'd see me or some someone else they miss one and it's if they don't if they don't let that go right then everything falls apart the wheels fall off if they miss one and then they try and shoot usually i would just miss one and just keep shooting like it didn't even happen and then maybe go back and get it or you kind of have to go back and get

it but if you go oh god how did i miss that oh it's just a total and a complete and utter disaster there's a great video that tim kennedy put off of him uh shooting on the range and you know he puts dummy rounds in with his regular rounds and he hits the dummy round and click and he's like look at that trigger control like trigger discipline because like there was no flinch there was no nothing it was just click there's no movement it was perfect you know which is what you're trying to achieve what

you're trying to achieve you're trying you know the last thing you want to see is click ah you look some weird [ __ ] remember when i first started shooting rifles like uh that's what i would i was i would experience that thing where you're anticipating the right you know 30 uh uh um win mag 300 win mag so it's got a lot of kick to it you know it's a boom it's like a loud loud kicking gun so um there was no round in the chamber and i pulled it and i saw myself doing

them like you [ __ ] like you better learn how to stop doing that one thing that's interesting is learning how to shoot a bow radically increased my accuracy with a rifle oh yeah radically yeah because it's so still there's so much stillness and everything's freehand right you're very rarely shooting a rifle at an animal freehand usually trying to find a rest unless it's like inside of you know 60 70 yards you're probably going to try to rest you're not going to shoot a 300 yard shot with a rifle freehand but with a bow everything's

freehand so with a rifle i just knew that all it was just squeeze squeeze squeeze let it go off just let it go squeeze boom like when i started shooting at uh tear and tactical shooting on the range the easiest thing for me was a rifle i was like oh god all i have to do is just squeeze and it'll the trigger will go off i'm so used to a bow where there's so many moving parts and using your back and you're letting it go off a surprise shot it made a big difference in my

rifle accuracy yeah that that was when uh when dudley was teaching me how to shoot and andy was there too so andy was like translating for me he's like hey what he means he's translating it to seal like pistol shooting and they're kind of like communicating to each other and then andy said hey what he's saying is like you know front side focus i was like okay cool got it you know and uh yeah it was awesome to have have freaking dudley i know the first person that ever shows me anything about archery is dudley

saying hey here's a bow and here's exactly how to shoot you idiot and i'm like thank you that's pretty goddamn lucky yeah i mean we're both real lucky in that regard i learned how to bow hunt from cam haynes and john dudlin like she's it's pretty lucky those are those are like the world champions yeah yeah yeah that's uh that's jordan and kobe bryant jordan and lebron james completely yeah 100 yeah it's uh we're very fortunate and it's um there's something about hunting too that once you it's it seems like when you're looking on the

surface it seems so straightforward and then once you start doing it it's very much like martial arts where you're like god damn there's a lot of layers to this [ __ ] there's so many layers you know and then when you're hanging out with a guy like cam or a guy like dudley and you hunt with them and you see them hunt you go oh like this is i get it this is a black belt oh this is some mundial's champion here oh yeah yeah that's exactly what it is so so crazy yeah so crazy

to see those guys in action and just to be like listening to what dudley's telling me about what a freaking elk is gonna do yeah he's gonna come over here yeah i'm like well i guess that's just about to happen oh and it just happened yeah and it's it's madness and then with dudley too it's like he's so into cooking it too he's so good at cooking it's like you get the whole lifestyle thing from him you get like this learning how the the art of archery which really is an art form it's an art

form just like martial arts are and then this moment of keeping your [ __ ] together in the execution of a shot and then the big payoff when that does happen and then the harvesting the animal carrying it out and then the meal that meal afterwards when you've had a successful hunting trip it's like god damn when we were in camp in utah and dudley made that neck that uh neck roast with with jalapenos and the bell peppers and holy [ __ ] that was good but it was also so good because you knew what

went down you know you were there when he shot the elk it's all it's all so crazy it's it's it's so satisfying that i can't imagine it not being a part of my life and not in that meat not being a part of my diet [Music] just changes you yeah so it's it's too bad that it's not more available to people yeah you know yeah it's not it's hard it's a there's a high bar for accessibility it's it's very and we got real lucky oh for sure we get to hunt at the deseret ranch in

utah which is this incredible place it's a private property it's all wild animals there's no fences but it's private property so there's not an overwhelming number of people like there's a lot of guys that they try to go on a public land and unless you're willing to hike in 20 miles and there's a lot of guys that are willing now to hike in 20 miles because there's now this culture of these really fit backpack hunters like these aaron snyder type dudes who put these [ __ ] heavy packs on and they just go they they're

training for this moment all year round like aaron has this crazy set up in his gym where he has this uh elevated treadmill and then each the treadmill on each side has uh uh like a like an olympic bar and you lift the bar so you're holding weight and you're going up this elevated treadmill i'm like jesus [ __ ] christ man but that's that's what you have to do if you want to be mountain fit to be able to do that and that's the barrier for entry to go and do these public land hunts

everybody stops at the trailhead everybody gets out of their car and then how far are you going to go because he's willing to go 20 [ __ ] miles in are you willing to go 20 miles in yeah that's gonna take eight hours and then come 20 miles back out with a moose on your back freaking moose on your back that's like that's totally legit yeah totally legit that's as legit as it gets yeah and most of those guys all had to learn themselves they ought to teach themselves and you know they've all you know

we're real lucky that like we get this amazing coaching so we're getting this these giant even though there's so many layers to it and we're both ki i mean i've been doing it now i've been hunting for eight years bow hunting for i guess six six ish total rookie you know i'm still like a blue belter maybe maybe i'm like getting ready to be a purple belt maybe i might get my purple belt soon but you know you go out with those guys they're [ __ ] 10 degree black belts and it's like there's even

though there's you know this this barrier for entry it is still possible it's still possible but it's just like jiu jitsu it's like when you when you're talking to that blue belt you're like keep [ __ ] going yeah and you can make it you can do this you know speaking of which uh i have to at least bring this up a little bit to clarify a little bit what i did to john dudley on the jiu jitsu map you broke his neck you here's the only part that you're missing missing a little bit right

so i'm giving him his wife uh like a like a jiu jitsu private so you're from his name and he's there little dud was there so it was getting worse he broke his neck in front of his wife and his son so i'm just completely you know i'm chilling and like hey this is this this is that and i'm not even i'm not even doing like this that we in one weekend andy john and me we did we did archery which i had never done before then we did jiu jitsu which john had never done

before and then we went on the wind tunnel which john had never done before you know because andy's like a sky god parachuting blah blah blah and so we did those three things it was kind of like a cool weekend i mean that's kind of an epic weekend really let's be honest so it's jiu jitsu time so i'm like okay cool so i'm going over hey this is the guard this is the mail i'm going over all the basic stuff i'm i'm i'm just giving the basic overall kind of concepts so i get done with

that you know and i'm done like i'm done i i'm just done i'm like okay you know great it's good introduction and then dudley is like well let's go a little bit and i'm like that's the wrong language i would have pulled him aside come here so so he's like let's go a little bit and even that you know what i'm totally cool with that of course he wasn't i he wasn't mean and he would wasn't thinking he was gonna be that wasn't it he's he he wants the experience yeah yeah i shouldn't have even

said let's go a little bit he was like he was like hey can we can we try it you know something like that just being cool and i'm like absolutely man no problem so so i lay down on the ground right and i'm like he says well what should i do i go you know just attack me so i lay down on my back i'm like just attack me and guess what he did what he did he freaking attacked me he like came at me and dudley's a big strong athletic guy he's six what is

he six five at least yeah so he caught me [ __ ] he grabs it and i'm chilling you know i'm just like okay cool he he comes at me i think i he like grabbed me and so i kind of replaced guard and then i sweep him and i'm not and so i'm mounted and all this is just pretty chill and i put in uh uh ezekiel choke right which i have a little yeah nogia's equal choke i have a little i have a little good technique for doing it but no big deal so

i put in the ezekiel choke he's this is the thing that i really wish i should have explained more because we hadn't rolled i wasn't like hey when you start to feel like you gotta you gotta tap out right he knew to tap out but i kind of figured everyone knows how to tap out so i put the choke in on him right well he doesn't know what to do so he he's grabbing me and he's pulling he's squeezing me so he's on the bottom i'm mounted i've got the ezekiel choke in and in order

to defend himself in his own mind he's squeezing me into him which the way i do my ezekiel choke it hurts i mean it compresses the choke even more and so what are you doing specifically basically i put my hand i make a fist and i put my fist in my sternum and then i you know grab the forearm here and then arch my shoulders so there's the neck right here it closes it right so it's putting the fist into the fist into right it's a it's a trach it's an air choke it's gnarly okay

and so i'm just doing this and you can see that hole and you shrug but as i'm doing this he's panicking and pulling me into him oh jesus and he only did it for a second and then he and then he taps out and i was like yeah you know and i wasn't i was just like oh you know boom and then he taps and then the rest of the stories i guess i didn't know a lot about the rest of this i didn't know any of the rest of the story because he didn't want

to see him feel like a baby yeah it fractured like his hyoid bone and then it built calcium up around it so he calls up andy one day and he goes dude i think i got throat cancer because there's something growing in my throat and he goes the doctor gets an equity and he's like hey did you do something to your neck because there's a there's a hairline fracture that's not now calcium deposit around it and he's like oh i know what happened so i guess in my defense why didn't you just get him in

like a head and arm dude or something it wasn't that it was it wasn't like a big deal it wasn't it wasn't crazy it wasn't crazy it was just normal it'd be like if if you grabbed somebody that showed up here's like hey you know hey can you roll with me you'd be like oh cool and you'd put them in a kind of whatever presented itself maybe you'd arm lock them maybe you'd do a commercial problem is when you get used to doing certain types of chokes and then you're doing it to someone who doesn't

especially that where you've got a fist yeah in the neck and i this is i guess this is the only thing uh he make no mistake about it even though i was just chilling he was not he was going level seven berserker mode on me and he's such a good athlete you know that's the thing about people that have never done jujitsu when they're doing it with someone who's a black belt they probably feel like they can just kind of go crazy and you'll just absorb it and deal with it and so they just try

it let's see what happens when i go crazy so now he holds this over my head you know he should he broke his neck oh i know i know one day i'm like i'm like we're up in montana and i said hey man he's like he sits like he was at my house he's oh thanks for having us over i go bro you you know you taught me how to do this you brought me up here you take me hunting like you're doing all this awesome stuff man i you know you're the man dude i

really appreciate he goes yeah you know what you did for me i'm like what he goes broke my neck [Laughter] it's awful bro oh it's all good now though right oh yeah is it not bothering him anymore oh i don't know about that i thought you meant it's all good between us it's all good between us he just sent me a new bow we're freaking i think every time he swallows he thinks about you no he coughs oh no he coughs hopefully i mean i haven't talked to him about it i don't like to bring

it up a lot but so there's something in there that's [ __ ] with his throat something in there is making him cough so they'd have to probably get in there and scrape it so while we're hunting he would be like and then he'd look at me oh no i'm just thinking oh i'm such a such a horrible person oh no it it's you know i was i always say like uh you know i dean lister i had been dean lister's training partner for 20 something years up until recently he never hurt me and i

never heard him never i mean until recently yeah because he he ended up hurting me and he ended up hurting me in the dumbest possible way i show up to class this was like this is over a year ago because i it hurt my archery for a while i show up to class late right and he's teaching and we're just gonna roll but i come out and he's like finishing the class and i'm cold and i'm just just getting on the mat and he says oh let me show let me show something he goes here

lay down and he gets a he gets a straight like he gets an americana on me or a camira but anyways he's like hey try and get out by straightening your arm and the whole class is watching he goes try and get out by straightening your arm i'm and i go okay cool and so he puts me across he gets a cross side he puts the i think it was i think there's an action uh a camira he says he says all right now try and this is in front of the class you're going to

see he's like straight arm he's about to straight he's about my arm is here and he's about to straight he wants me to try and get out by like doing almost like a hitchhiker escape or something so he says uh he says try and get out by straightening your arm i go okay i straightened my arm and he just in a millisecond and you could hear it arm locks me totally destroyed my arm uh no not totally it was injured very bad the first time in my life i had to get a sling this bro

this guy comes over to me dean lister and he goes bro and he's all he's such a nice guy he's all bro i'm so sorry and he goes i didn't know your elbow wasn't very flexible i go bro it's an elbow elbows aren't flexible they're bone dude i didn't know your elbow wasn't flexible ah d needs a dna test because i know he's at least 86 percent neanderthal yeah at a minimum the way his neck and his shoulders move together you can see that dude with like a a big club for sure and the total

total mutant and a savant on the jiu jitsu mountains yeah a complete savant on the jujutsu map well he's the literally the missing lin he's the link i shouldn't say the missing link the link to jiu jitsu expanding it to the leg like modern jiu jitsu it's 100 percent dean lister the statement that he made to john danaher has become world famous because dana heard said it on my podcast he said dean lister said to him why would you enjoy why would you ignore 50 of the human body yeah and donoher being the [ __

] genius that he is was like why would you enjoy yeah why would you so would you ignore it most of the like you know all these new things that are coming out now right yeah uh you know you see gordon ryan just insane all these guys that are really attacking legs now and by the way just like dean gordon's not only good at attacking legs he's good at everything but i i was asking dean because i watched you know dean's done all these moves to me for years you know and uh just just over

and over again right this is what we do it's what this is what we've been doing we've been doing it since he won adcc when when eddie beat hoyler when dean won when he beat cockaraco in the finals with uh what they now call 5050 which he and i called cockaraco after that we called that cockroach no one started doing it for another many many years probably 10 years regularly i was there that year oh yeah and i wasn't there that year i was i was there when eddie won in san diego we were all

i competed in san diego dean competed in san diego and eddie competed in san diego for the trials i was there for that too eddie won yeah uh dean won i lost to big country roy nelson oh wow yeah yeah and i did because i wasn't very tactically smart i scrambled to a position and i tried to get a matter of fact i got a crucifix because that was kind of one of my go-to moves get a crucifix and i'd get a choke from there when i should have taken the back and gotten points and

i didn't and roy nelson who is a great guy and he's a total stud uh he i got the crucifix position and he like powered out of bounds and so then and he he beat because he's a much better uh wrestler than me and awesome at jiu jitsu too anyways uh when he won that like we were doing this stuff so anyways right probably six months ago or three months ago i was asking dean i said hey dina are you starting to see things that you didn't know right when your watch because he watches you

know i said are you starting to see jiu jitsu things that you didn't that you didn't know like foot lock stuff and he's like he's like yeah about three or four months ago i started seeing some things that i didn't think of so that's how long it took people to get to and then start to develop their own stuff which which is pretty crazy well it's fascinating that once the game moved into this sort of leg lock heavy style that so many guy like craig jones and gordon ryan and there's you know gary tonan there's

so many of those guys that you're seeing this game getting tighter and tighter with leg locks yeah and the way john donahue examines everything too because donahue's body is broken he can't really compete anymore i mean he has an artificial hip he's got an artificial knee his body's really [ __ ] up and his the his other knee is really unstable so he can roll but he can only roll very controlled with guys who understand his physical limitations and then you can see how he understands positions you can get a lot out of rolling with

him there's a great video actually of gordon ryan rolling with john donahue and obviously they're not using strength they're just flow rolling but you you see how tactical he is and how ahead of every position he is and how his deep understanding of it and part of it is because he's teaching these guys and he's teaching them from a position where he can't really do it himself he can do it but he can't can't compete he can't roll right right but but but he has the mind for it so he's seeing it from the outside

and he's also this [ __ ] really genius human being yeah so he's able to break this down and then he has this core group of badasses that understand what a great pleasure it is to have this genius teach you i mean it's not a coincidence that that whole enzo gracie team has become the one of the biggest threats like that the whole team is filled with [ __ ] murderers yeah and they're just to again emphasize the point is leg locks are a part of the game and there was a time period where people

thought that leglocks would change the game completely and at a certain point the defenses for the leglocks become known and all of a sudden you have to go back to the other parts of jujitsu and that's why you see guys like tonan right he doesn't always win with heel hooks but you have to address them or you will lose right and yeah those guys it's really cool to see those guys coming up i mean it's such saying it coming up like i'm like like but i'm watching this development which i was at kind of ground

zero with dean lister and the crazy thing is dean lister he has like a like a crazy savant mind where i would create one thing for every whatever for every 20 things that dean created it's probably like eddie and i don't know eddie as well as you do but just the creative part of his brain is what the most powerful thing was yeah and then once people saw it they're like okay now we can build upon this yeah for eddie it's 100 the creative part of his brain also the fact that when i met eddie

he hated lifting weights he wouldn't lift weights because i would try to get him to lift weights like come on let's look forward to i'm [ __ ] lifting [ __ ] like you can go lift weights so so he was this little tiny guy and he had to rely on technique so he had to rely on trickery plus he was a musician right so he's always this creative guy and he smoked a lot of weed too so he's always thinking about things outside the box and he's also this guy that doesn't like people telling

him that he's wrong so like you know like you can't do it that way he's like oh really hm let's see if i can and then he would find a way to do it and you know and he just developed all these like weird entries into things and these weird setups that people didn't see coming and once he sort of improved upon these and then started expanding upon them and then developing that whole 10th planet system i mean really it's insanely creative system that's just developed based on his ability to just think outside the box

i had jeff glover in my training in my gym for a long time teaches him he's the same thing where he's small he's crazy flexible he smokes a lot of weed and like he would just do wild things wild things i was at a g i was at i was actually at adcc and i was with myself my son was probably like nine or something and we're there watching and jeff glover's about to compete this was before i really was friends with jeff was he doing that donkey guard thing back then he was doing everything

he the donkey guard hadn't become super popular but he was kind of in the beginning stages of it so i'm sitting there next to my son and we're at adcc so it's it's a small thing you know i go i and i said to my son you know go hey watch this guy that's about to come out he's crazy and glover comes out and he like just he falls on his back flips inverted guard and starts like just going insane just doing insane things and you know the rest of the matches are two guys you

know playing patty cakes and looking for the take down glover comes out falls down freaking just doing all kinds of wild stuff and then submits the dude in 30 38 seconds and my son looks me he goes he goes i thought you meant like crazy and he goes i didn't know you meant crazy and i go yes he thought you meant like brutish yes brutus crazy he didn't think i meant just weirdly what that weird creative thing is yeah that's one of the best things about learning jiu jitsu from a small person like those small

guys they figure out how to get around things i mean there's been a bunch of you know hoiler gracie's a great example of it too eddie glover yeah yeah that's that's why i'm never a good that's why i'm a bad person to introduce people to jiu jitsu right because they just think oh yeah of course you're a gorilla you know you outweigh me by 40 or 50 pounds yeah i love i used to always have jeff glover on standby at my gym like oh you don't oh yeah okay go go train with that guy over

there see what happens and when jeff goes against a like a big strong guy you're gonna get some yeah they really get so disappointed in themselves it's so sad he said he said the easiest people for him to roll with were big like muscular guys really he says the easiest people for him to roll with are big muscular guys like big muscular guys he says i i love them i love rolling with them they're so easy that's so crazy because most people get injured mm-hmm rolling with like gloves freaking flexible no his i think his

i think his neck's jacked up now oh is it now yeah that's the thing that gets everybody is the goddamn neck the net you know because very few guys really strengthen their neck correctly either i think the neck is one thing that you absolutely should strengthen i think you can get away with not lifting weights and doing jiu jitsu but i don't think you can get away with not strengthening your neck for very long yeah that's uh it's one of those things and it connects you to the rest of your freaking body you also use

it you use it more than you think you know especially me i was uh my my favorite technique is probably head and arm choke and you're using your neck to secure that arm and once you develop a feel for holding an arm in place with that neck then that gets a workout band you know you really you use it a lot more than you think and if you can strengthen your neck it's just it's such a big advantage it's also a big advantage in avoiding getting hurt because it strengthens the whole chain from the top

of your spine all the way down you know that's why i'm such a big fan of that iron neck i just used it right now right right before the podcast i was doing it i do it every [ __ ] day man i put that i have one i bought one love it they emailed me a bunch of like bro how do you like it it's all good that's [ __ ] awesome man between that and you know there's a few other back exercises and stuff that i think are critical strength in the lower back

too because it's another thing that guys always get jacked is their lower back yeah you know the weird thing is people people people's necks get jacked up regardless like there's people that go through life doing whatever paperwork and they end up with a bad neck neck is a vulnerable thing so if you don't take care of it especially when you are abusing it when you are getting choked when you are not tapping it's uh one of those things i judge people in their necks on the size of their neck yeah if i see someone a

little skinny are you doing man yeah do some go do some bridges it just doesn't seem like it would be a good thing to have that's that's the thing that holds your head on i can't wait for the future when your neck is all jacked up and you go in and they just put you in surgery for two hours and you come out you got a metal spine that's what's going on oh yeah i'm gonna be the first person i'm i'm right in line you want to give me a metal spine or any metal components

inside my body i'm 100 down let's make it happen he's got a fake disc eddie's got a titanium articulating disc where lower back his his lower back had been so smashed and suppressed that um his you know that's one of the things that's why men when they get older they they shrink as your discs get squashed to the point and they start touching you get stenosis do you think you can go too far with flexibility that it starts to injure you over the long term well i don't think you can go too far with flexibility

but flexibility without strength perhaps because maybe that inflexibility like maybe you'll get like some muscle damage you know when you're trying to push too far that'll prevent you from getting disc damaged maybe that's just speculation but i think it's critic it's just so critical to strengthen your back man i mean i'm always doing reverse hypers and i do all these different like uh little back extensions i just think strengthening that whole column and yoga in particular and then the neck the iron neck i just think that whole thing it's like too many guys just rely

on their workouts to strengthen that and they don't take it as like hey i really like doing jiu jitsu i really like doing muay thai i want to put in the time to work out these areas how's eddie's back now it's not 100 it's it still [ __ ] with him a little bit but he's rolling again but he's got a fake discs a disc it's a titanium disc that they replace the smooshy part with this thing that rolls and moves but it still creates some inflammation whenever look um i know i had ronnie coleman

here last week i know i listened to it and his whole back is all fused and it's horrible man i mean he can't walk and you know he's the king greatest olympian of all time i mean he's a [ __ ] amazing pro bodybuilder eight time mr olympia i watched that i watched the documentary yeah did you see the documentary really good man really just what a good guy great guy what a nice guy couldn't be nicer couldn't and in pain in [ __ ] agony and just friendly and oh wouldn't wouldn't have it any

other way and he talks about the the days that he like he was talking about uh squatting 800 pounds and that uh like he only he said he was gonna do it for two reps and after the two reps he could i could have gotten more and to this day he thinks he should have got more that's what we were talking about earlier right at night that's why he's a champion i mean that really is that that's what made him a champion did you watch the vid the uh the west side versus the world documentary

no it didn't with louis i got to interview louis i have yeah piece of his equipment too that belt squat machine okay which is amazing it puts all the weight on your on your hips versus on your back he's a [ __ ] wild dude i want to go out there and hang out oh he would love you man he would love you yeah he's you would love him too man he's he that is who louie is and he's got this [ __ ] gym filled with barbarians oh yeah just all they're doing is just

trying to lift the maximum amount of weight they can lift it's insane mikey my kid watched that and he you know i think he's just all about it now right outside him and his little buddies talking about louis simmons you know he's controlling harder go heavier i mean jamie and i were in his office interviewing them and that's where we did it we actually oh you went out i did the podcast at west side yeah i was in columbus doing stand-up and i just i had to interview him that's awesome i just knew i knew

just like i want to get the guy in his gym too it's just [ __ ] amazing he gave us a tour of the gym and then we did a podcast at his desk it was awesome what a rare human being yeah they don't make them like louis simmons but also a genius like here's a guy who figured out like his disc was [ __ ] up and they were like we're gonna fuse you and he's like well let me think of this something made it compress i'm gonna figure out something to make it decompress

and strengthen that area and that's where the reverse hyper came from which i think should be a staple in every gem that reverse hyper machine for strengthening the lower back and then actively decompressing i've never found anything better that's all in louis simmons mind it came out of his own brain because of his injury that he came back from after and was squatting whatever 729 world record at whatever 62 years old yeah but i wouldn't recommend any things he do he does i mean here's a guy who got his biceps reattached and then blew it

out because it was too annoying to not be able to work out so he just went back to working out and popped snap back off no they all called back so he's got no biceps just pulls back crazy animal he get his shoulder redone they gave him an artificial shoulder goes back to the gym and they're like you're gonna max out today his friends made him max out after his shoulder surgery with an artificial shoulder like okay like just that's just the culture yeah the culture is it doesn't matter injuries don't matter in the uh

in the documentary one of the guys was saying my goal was to hurt louie when he came in the gym my goal was to hurt him i wanted him to get hurt i wanted to push him so hard that he got hurt this is one of his buddies one of his friends one of his training partners my goal was to hurt him that's that culture though i mean that's how you develop such a legendary place you have to have the sensibilities are beyond what a normal person would consider a prudent thing to do yeah and

if people the people that could withstand that kind of pressure became champions yeah became world record holders it's all about the mind jocko that's what nobody knows more than you we just did three hours dude let me give you a covid test now it's 3 30. let's get some all right let's get some thank you brother appreciate you man bye everybody [Music] you