Thierry Henry: I Was Depressed, Crying & Dealing With Trauma!

I was lying a very long time because Society wasn't ready to hear what I had to say but I will be honest with you I was H record breaker history maker Arsenal's record goal scorer throughout my career I must have been in depression did I do something about it no but to understand the person that I became you have to understand what happened early when I was young I didn't see a lot of love affection hugging my dad the first time he took me in his arms said this baby will be an amazing football player

from that point I was programmed to succeed my dad took control of my body and it was tough one day we played the game I was 13 years old we won a game 60 I scored six goals but it was always what I didn't do you missed that control you missed that cross you missed that this you missed that that and it can make you or break you I decided it was going to make me I wasn't scared of failing you're going to fail that's what shapes you but I was more scared not to pleas

people even when you were playing at Arsenal and you were winning golden boots and invincibles you were still trying to please your dad yeah but were you happy so long you think what you're doing is to please off football money we have a roof but then I was about to leave again my girlfriend the kids everybody starts to cry and for the first time I realized they were crying for me not the football player not the accolades and I felt human if I was watching you what would I have seen me crying almost every day

but it was the young T what was he crying for quick one this is really really fascinating to me on the back end of our YouTube channel it says that 69.9% of you that watch this channel frequently over the lifetime of this channel haven't yet hit the Subscribe button I just wanted to ask you a favor it helps this channel so much if you choose to just subscribe helps us scale the guest helps us scale the production and it makes this show bigger so if I could ask you for one favor if you've watched the

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time with you I know you are as well what is that early context that people need to know to understand the man that sits in front of me today I will second what you just said I think need to understand the struggles of someone to know exactly what the person is and uh and what a person is about are so many so many things that we can we can start with well I grew up in a in a modest household if I would if I can say that for me at the time it was the

it was the best because I couldn't compare it to anything I grew up with with diversity I grew up with there is food on the table so there therefore I love you I take care of you so therefore I love you it wasn't so much uh communicated by Uggs by I Love You by a well done more often than not it was more something that I didn't do that was raised um being from the Caribbean my my parents came early to France which they call it the continent it is still France because they are they

are French islands guadaloop and martinque but we always say going to France it was the dream for that that era to go to the continent to go to France to have a better life uh to try to make sure that we could have a better life but when when you when you grew up there you know you you you dream of going to France because it's better because it's it's like in bracket the American dream which actually it is the French Dream I'm sure it was the same for you when you arrive in in in

uh in France make make sure you don't make any mistakes make sure they don't come to us and say oh those guys from the Caribbean you know they just arrive and you know so don't don't don't speak real make sure you speak French well don't do this don't do that we need to fit in we don't want to get sent back to to the Caribbean we want to keep the house that we have we want to keep the job that we have always that fear of getting sent back not so much for me because I

I was born in France but they always had that chip on their shoulder of make sure you you don't make any mistakes I don't want anyone to say that my son was this my son was that don't bring any problem you know we we came here to work we came here to have a better life so please do not do not spoil it kind of so you always feel like you need to fit in and not and not and not uh belong I was uh I was kind of heavy at one point as a as

a as a young kid you know but that's that's the way it was you listen to it you you grow up with it um and you you just try to to to fit in at one point what was life like outside of the four walls that you lived in outside of the home the streets you grew up on just a normal neighborhood if I can use the word normal neighborhood with everything that goes with with it uh gangs drugs fight happiness diversity different food different religions so I always said was the best for me to

understand what the world was how does it compare to the streets that your kids are growing up on what street the garden the grass no concrete there now Jing aside you can't compare it man I mean but if I had to do it again I would do it again I'll do it again because he made me he you know is very diff I can't even start to even compare anything I did everything for them not to grow up there because because you don't want to grow up there why because I didn't want them to go

through that it's weird for me to say that it's it's kind of a cliche thing to say that you don't really want to grow up there if you ask anyone when they can compare it they're like oh no it's better to to grow up there it's better to grow up there but for me like I said I'll do it again because it made me understand a lot of things acceptance uh living with others to coexist uh in in any way by the way what you think of what you what you wear uh what you what

how you see the world for me you know I I couldn't care less that you know that you know in my in my class the same thing was syal malan Caribbean uh North African Asian Italian polish Roots Portuguese Roots I couldn't care less about what you thought or not I'm like this is my friend do you know what I mean and and and I traveled also without traveling like I went around the world staying in the same place had all the food in the world staying in the same place so this is why I would

say it's kind of a cliche thing to say you don't want to grow up there but what it gives you also a what it gives you is second to none for me in terms of what you need in order to comprehend how the world is you described it before as growing up and only seeing cement yeah concrete I grew up it's kind of weird for me to say that Stephen but if I don't see concrete for more than a week I don't feel well I know people like country and Country Life and Country Life and

and and and the seea if I don't see my my if I don't see concrete I don't feel well I grew up in I grew up in it some people will tell you that I can't see it anymore I need I need the sea I need I need whatever for me I'm I'm happy in a town concrete that's where I grew up uh but yes you can encounter problems there a lot but I'll be honest with you I was lucky enough I have older brother that's seven years older than me so his friend him used

to protect me because he was I have the same age as my town so I was born in 77 my town was buil in 77 so just imagine my brother arriving in this town is older than me was the first one I had a job the first one obviously I had money the first one I had a car so it was well respected I know it sounds stupid now to say that but it was well respected so I always stayed away from from trouble especially with my parents but also I don't know if you if

you had that but when you have a certain gift and the guys in the neighborhood know that you might do something you're also protected interesting because they leave this one alone might he might do something he's good at football you know so let him be kind of interesting so had my brother that also yeah because when you play football and and you're from a town and like hey little kid it's from out out town you know so you have a kind of a Unwritten protection m in a way because you might do it you know

you might you might succeed going back inside your home what was what was life like inside the walls of your home I always think that we learn you you kind of gave a hint to it there we learn emotion inside the walls of our home I certainly didn't because there wasn't a lot of love in my parents' house in terms of their love with each other and we weren't necessarily a very affectionate family so I then struggled growing up as an adult because I didn't really learn affection I you know that that's exactly what I

referred to before no we didn't have that my my parents my parents already divorced uh when I was seven eight so dad left at one point the house he was present when uh I had to go to training or games or coming around at times but he left when I was uh eight so I technically grew up with my mom uh but even when they were together is exactly what you said I didn't see a lot of love affection hugging uh you know when I said that I'm not complaining I'm it wasn't hell please by

any means but it wasn't it wasn't a lot of love that that side of the of the emotion I didn't I didn't know it and even more so when you grew up in this type of neighborhood that that amplify also what was happening at home like it's more of a be rough anger uh you're the man you're a man be strong don't cry you know uh uh I didn't know how to how to to open up talking I the problem maybe I need help I don't I I didn't know those those tools I didn't know

I didn't have a door first and foremost to be able to know uh what it was I'm sure you understand what I mean like even until now when I hug my mom is weird yeah like and I know people like come on it's we you know I I'll uh you know I won't stay too long if you know what I mean like I'm I mean maybe I went too far with it did I go too far you know because I don't know it stayed it stayed I didn't know I didn't know how to deal with

that was was I even aware of it it's when then I went to other people's houses later on or when you speak with people and tell you they have discussions about whatever I'm like what you guys discuss you talk all right must be nice not in a bad way understand me well but that's how it was you know you get on with it you get used to it it becomes uh it becomes a norm who could you speak to back then nobody but understand me well I didn't know that I had to speak to people

to feel well I didn't I didn't know anything else so I can't be sitting here saying oh I wish I don't wish anything I just didn't know that when you had a problem you talk about it whatever it is you had a fight uh you feel well about or you were ashamed about you go home how was your day good how part if you've been you know something happened and the Headmaster called at home or whatever it is and then and then you didn't do your homework or whatever but if if you ask me are

you okay I'm okay did you get more attention when things didn't go well when you were naughty or you know maybe oh that's also the nor so you get attention for bad that yeah yeah that that that was this is where you know that stayed on with me up until now my my attention to details comes from the fact that it was always what I didn't do that mattered so if I walk in the room room I can Str away see what's wrong never what's good which is I'm working on it did help me in

my life and it still does help me because I can assess the situation pretty quick and see if something's going to go soft or not or if there is something wrong or whatever I will notice it straight away you know comes with a cost yeah it does obviously he does but like I said like I said to youon help myself like it was always what I didn't do to to whoever my mom my dad you know it was tough Caribbean Caribbean way it's just what you know you didn't do enough you didn't my dad was

very particular at times on on our as as um as a as as a player as a as a little boy it was always like you didn't do that well so obviously when you hear that more often and the nut that's what it's going to stay this is part of the sort of immigrant Story of Survival when you come to a new place parents aren't focused on self-actualization or happiness or fulfillment they're focused on you know you better survive and you better get an education and that they're they're defense they're almost in defense mode you

got to fit yeah you got to fit so make sure you you know it's going to be it is a cliche thing and I'm sure you heard it at home is gonna be twice as out for you to get a job so you grew up with that grew up with oh I can't make any mistakes where did football come into this oh I early dolls dolls my my dad this is and I said it so many times this is exactly what he said the first time he took me in his arm he didn't say as

people joke about it up until now because that story it's it's known but I didn't say that you know my God he looks like me or he looks it doesn't look like me or he has a big forehead or massive lips or a big nose or whatever you say oh my god oh is it's not a good-looking one or you know whatever it it the first thing he did say is he put me in the air this is what my uncle and mount said uh he said this baby will be an amazing football player this

is what he said and I know people would say yeah right this is exactly what he said and he puts me down and he put me down how do you feel about that weird because you know weird and and happy and at times why and thank God but I wish and I will explain because after that you can imagine what comes next he's going to fulfill the prophecy so what come next is that I was programmed to [Music] succeed so whatever what what was going to happen was always going to happen you know he he

took me on the field I was maybe five six to it's funny how you don't remember stuff at times that early but I do remember the first time he took me on the field just to just to strike the ball just to strike the ball just to strike the ball and that's about it and from that point it was always a mission I was on the mission to to to fulfill his dream to to to please him to and by the way don't get me wrong at the time I don't know how much I liked

it I I I cannot I don't know all I knew is I didn't hate it was it your choice definitely not my choice early do what what choice do you have anyway when you're young if your mom wants to play piano it's at one point you turn and you go like hey I I've had enough of the piano or you I've had enough of the guitar I've had enough of of Judo or I've had enough of track and field mom you know but this is what I'm saying whether I thought about it or I didn't

think about it could I could I have said that I didn't want it you know when he picked you up as a baby and said this baby is going to be an amazing football player do you wish he said something else It's just tough one I don't know I don't know because look at where I am look at what what happened [Music] uh do you wish he added a sentence honestly it's just it's just when you hear what he said that will you can understand in a way exactly or what we're going to talk about

obviously do I wish that he said something else not at that moment knowing my dad but do I wish that he he he behave a certain way after yes but what he said is what he said you know some people said different different stuff and and he didn't have an impact on your life or not we're talking about it because I became a football player or maybe if I didn't I wouldn't have been here to tell you my story also so no what he said it's okay it's what came after that had an impact uh

um um on on me he takes you out into the pitch you're five or six years old he gets you doing practice of kicking the ball kicking the ball I'm assuming at this time because he's divorced your mother your relationship with him the center of your relationship sort of has this gravitates around football that is the relationship mainly I know that's you know apart from holidays and and and you know I'm I'm going to see him in cuz one point he went he went back to live in in guadaloop so I'm going to see him

back there or I know I was saying him about the weekend or he's coming to get me for training so it's it's it's even a it's like a double thing I know I seem a lot thanks to football and I know if I want to make him happy it will be through football how how how did you know that well first of most because he said it and I knew what he said I knew what he said said because everyone told me after what he said and the way he behaved I knew like if I

if I want to make him happy it can only be that and you wanted to make him happy yeah it's it's it's uh I think we had a we had a discussion I talked about it but uh yeah it's it's I always say and I think I said it what you fear will Master you so my fear and and and and what was the most difficult thing for me to do as as a man and as a player ever was to please my dad that was the hardest thing I had to deal with to please

my dad and as you can imagine I heard it after Cherry you great or my God or my this or my that or from everybody or whatever but the little me never heard it it was always what I didn't do so obviously you you all you you you always trying to to to to get the the nud the approval the you were great oh you know you you're progressing or it's always no you miss this or you miss that or so for a very long time up until not that long ago always my thing was

to please people because I never got that access that access was never granted when I was young on that subject understand well on that subject I was always looking for that approval which when I was young never came at that age do you then almost without knowing it start to associate your sense of self your sense of worth with your performance on the pitch because that's it sounds like your your father maybe intentionally or unintentionally has programmed this belief into you that if you do well on the pitch then you are worthy or you're lovable

I I I didn't even think about anything else than pleasing him I wasn't even thinking about what he can do for me after but because I was always trying to do that then he carried on with everything I never wanted to let my teammates down I always wanted to please them I always wanted to please the fans I always wanted to please because I grew up with wanting to please him so I never stopped you're looking for for something that came from obviously what happened to you young so he helped me because at one point

he works he works with with sports because it's great to stay on your you know to to stay grounded it's another day and it to be the best so that that at one point connected well but technically he didn't help the little me or he didn't help so much the human being being it did to a degree help the the athlete because he works like don't be you know too too satisfied with what you have tomorrow is another day you need to be good again so I was like okay I need to I need to

be the best I need to please everybody again today I need to you know my happiness and my sadness is was always through people cuz I didn't know I didn't know you know what used to make me side on that side it was always through you know like y you said oh no you happy yeah you know but me I was always like kind of I won't say dead the word is not dead but expressing my feelings was very difficult apart rage and anger rage and anger is easy why because the same it's something that

I didn't do so I'm I'm getting upset so it gives me fuel always he helped the athlete but he didn't help the human no what was the human missing what should he have given about everything the human being was missing almost everything but you need to understand s like i s to I left my house I was 13 you know people don't realize that who are you who are you at 13 years old you leave your house and you you already dealing with the pressure of succeeding because you you you're trying to enter CL Fontaine

so already here is competition what is clar Fontaine for people that don't know G is a it's a preschool preformation you you you have to pass four so one weekend you come they take the best 20 then they do the same in around not far from Paris then the weekend after that you have the 20 from that place 20 from that place 20 from Paris then you bring it down to 40 you bring it out to 20 and eventually obviously the 20 goes to that school of clar fontain to teach you how to play football

and you go to school from by the way 8 to 3 after that you play football for people that don't know as well because I was reading about CLE Fontaine is it's considered to be the elite sort of Academy in France I read that around 1,600 trial for the program and out of which 23 are selected per year yeah yeah so that's this is like the SAS of football in France it is it is and a lot of players came from there me if I give you me anela mbappe Galas you know we we you

know Pap I don't know if you remember Pap but a lot of players came from from that Academy so my friend in the in our team here is French and he was with with us in Paris when we when we first met and he said if you go to Clair Fon your chance of becoming a professional footballer is like 95% it's like 90% it's like that's the elite yes but in the 95 yeah you have a chance but not a lot of those guys it's still very minimum the guys that made it interesting the guys

that went there still very minimum this is why you know the usual 2% succeed in 1998 don't you know to be part of the 2% it's very difficult but to go back to what we were saying it does have an impact on a human being because you didn't have a a a normal uh young life you it's not the same what you expose to right from the start is very difficult to deal with there was no time to be a child it sounds like no not at all and like I said you don't think about

it you think I think about it now this is why I said to you I can now see that the human being is missing a lot have you learned a lot of these insights from watching your kids get to just playing be kids um as I use that line often you know I got educated and my kids are re educating me you know uh my kids uh save me they all saving me every day every day I see something new that teaching me to be a dad a better dad not a better dad and my

dad this is what I'm saying myself a better dad and and they open doors that I that I I didn't know how to deal with you know it's it's it's it's it's very you know sometimes when you like I can see sometimes when they look at me how much they love me and how much like they they they like oh that but if they only knew actually I look at them the same way you know thanks for being here because because it would have been tough cuz I you know as an as an an athlete

as long as you stay within that frame you can feed whatever you need to feed to satisfy that little that little thing that you have your ego your your your avoiding your problems distract because because you prefer to be the athlete than the human being because then the athlete it's easier you know what to do well I knew what to do even if it was painful whatever I knew what to do this is why when you go there so it's easy for a little while when you have your career but I think I think you

remember that as an as as a as an athlete and and I say it and I will maintain it you die when you stop the athlete a competitor dies I can never play again in the Prem I can never play for France anymore I don't care what people say you can play football not at that level not competing the way I used to compete and not part of me died so people don't teach you to die so now you are going to face all your problems because you could put them on the side because you're

playing games because you have other things that will cover that but once once everything stops we're not used to be at home we're not used to deal with a normal life since I'm 13 I never had a normal life understand me well I'm not complaining I'm just saying to go back like to the to the real world it's a it's a shock to the system because you're actually technically not equipped to live in that world it's an interesting comparison to make but when you hear people talk in these terms you think of someone that had

been incarcerated in jail or you think of someone that went off to maybe the military and then returned after War to a normal life and couldn't sort of acclimatize to what it meant to just sit in silence Alone um and in many respects although those examples are quite extreme in many cases your experience of going being a football player since sort of five years old being drafted into this Elite Academy at 13 years old and then spending the rest of your career in sort of Institutions where it high performance institutions where as you say like

you were distracted from having to think about being a human and you were an athlete your identity was an athlete your expectations were based on being an athlete your sense of validation came from being an athlete and suddenly boom it's over look actors often go into depression or problem when they go into a character for a movie because at one point they don't know who they are anymore they they become that character so when you put that Cape as a player for more than 20 years and you have to be what you have to be

for people because you might transcend them because of what you transmit the feeling that you have of your club and with the fans that that that that you know that almost like you're like yeah I belong when I had to fit in for a very long time now I belong when that goes can't wear that Cape anymore and when you wear that Cape you feel different responsibilities performing losing winning doesn't matter but you know the next day what you need to do in order to compete put the cape on when you leave that Cape it's

like you're naked like oh wait I'm going to ADM it now they see my weakness they see my things you see your weakness you feel build it it's different you know when it's it's like whatever it is for you that when you put your cap you're like okay you know put it down you're like oh I don't like I like I don't like that so much you know so how do you deal with that this why I mean when I say you die obviously is strong understand me well with what's happening in the world at

a minute maybe it is strong to say but that part of me died never come back that can never come back a singer can sing can have you can have your concert up until I can't I can't I can't play anymore have to deal with that and and that it's tough to deal with it's tough to deal with because that that's your medicine you can't take it anymore so there's another life there's obviously it's not the end uh but you need to to to learn how to be at home to connect with your mes to

connect with with your kids because the way of connecting before was very minimal when you think about it you never at home so now you you you arrive at home when you stop your career you're like a guest well that's what you do you guys when I used to play you know it's it's not understand me well I'm not complaining I'm not saying you know people have you know I understand I'm just trying to explain what I went through what I'm going for arson became it seems from reading your story a bit of a substitute

father for you at one point when you moved to s Monaco after C font yeah so you were 17 years old when you moved there Aron's the manager at um Monaco at the time does he because this relationship you have with arson it you know that time you go off to Monaco I think there's a little bit of a sort of a disconnect from your father in some way is that accurate uh to yeah yeah well the thing is uh how do you tell your dad that that he needs to step aside in order for

me to have my career it's my life when he did everything for you at that moment as a dad by the way but how how do you make him understand and now I needs to fly I need to fly alone is that a conversation is it no it wasn't a conversation no it wasn't that that that that that never happened it just I made him I made him understand you made him understand yeah the look the the the the the you know making you know making sure that he was understanding that he couldn't come anymore

but you know if he's asking me for some tickets I wasn't maybe sending them at times or stuff like that you know because talking what stuff so you indirectly yeah you do you do you do no it's not it's not rejecting but it was it was too much at one point what was too much but the pressure of of of pleasing him the constant he was always there which was good don't get me wrong but it's like for everybody you're not going to be always on top of your kids in whatever because at the end

of the day you you you you don't help them I needed to make mistakes by myself have you got specific memories of when you thought you played well but he just oh so many I mean it's that one also is very famous in France people still talk to me about it they still when they see me the three they said the name of the team that I played against yeah it's a very famous one it's true story uh we played the game I was uh 15 uh already then you can see if someone is kind

of good or not good uh we won a game six nil I scored the six goals and on no way back you know so I step I step out of the um of the game and I knew I'm sure you the same if I'm if I was like this I swear believe you believe me or you don't believe me the aura of my dad I knew even with about looking at him if if if the man was happy or not so if you turned around you feel even before like it was that powerful you could

just feel his energy feel it and he wasn't happy I I I turn and I saw it I could I can tell you any posture and I knew if if he was happy not happy or or or whatever so we arrive in the car you know silence so I'm like shall I talk shall I not talk okay like you know so yeah we this exactly how we were so it goes like you're happy so I'm like what shall I answer yeah yeah but you shouldn't because you missed that you missed that thing you missed that

control you missed that cross you missed that this you missed that that you missed that then I arrive at my mom's house I always remember he dropped me at my mom's house I go up and I'm walking like this my mom is like did you lose I said no we won six nil and I scored the six goals and then she looked at me going in it was often like that why why was he doing that in your view I don't know like I always say you know what I try to uh came to you

know to come to terms with it um but you need to understand something like my dad never read my dad never traveled my dad knows only one way his way and what is been told and if if I compare what how I've been brought up to how is been brought up there a world so for him he already you know put that down so you can't you can't be upset with someone that tries to do his best and educate you with his tools I don't have the same tools my box of tools has more tools

and my kids would have more tools than me so you can't you can't you know you can't be upset with that one you have to come to to terms with how it was that's how it was now you need to accept it but digesting it is when it becomes tricky because you can always accept everything but the impact that he has on you after it's on you to deal with that the values he he gave you and you learn growing up up until you you know you ultimately move on to you know in Arsenal the

values that made you successful in hindsight when you look back what are those values that are transferable to any industry or any discipline that put you where you are because listen you know people people can be born with great genetics they can be born with whatever but that isn't enough it's been proven time and time again that that isn't enough to reach the highest of the highs and have a statue of yourself you know over there in London there's got to be a mindset character or values underneath there that creates that Legend that's so many

things but that I understood and there's so you know you talk about Al you a lot of guys that I came uh across in my career helped me develop something that was in me I do believe that we always always have we all have something in now are we going to develop it it's a different ball game as you know my upbringing was rough strict um but it it can go both ways yeah can make you or break you I decided it was going to make me but I had to put my dad on the

side at one point I had to put everybody on the side at one point and concentrate to the path now we're talking about it's a different it's a different topic now we're going to talk about what I became and the in bracket the animal I became came on I was a player that's that's a different ball game that comes with seeing Dennis bamp every morning working hard that comes with seeing all those players at one stuff working out and I'm looking at it and I'm like how am I going to move those guys if you

add obviously what my dad gave me never be satisfied do more it's always what you didn't do well you know obviously had a certain attribute I was fast that's the only attri with I had when I was young I was fast you have guys that are technical or see the game or whatever awareness or whatever I was just fast so I had to work really hard and I know people would say oh my god get that cliche sentence no I had to work really hard every day my le my left foot was poor uh Ed

forget about it and he still I still didn't manage to to be better during my career I got a tiny bit better but I work free kick I going to take a free kick uh uh anything you know repetition is key repetition always creates habit you know so I knew I knew I wasn't as gifted as so many players although I did everything that you're supposed to do I went to Clon I play under 15 France under 16 under the 17 under 18 under 19 under 21 first team so people when they see my path

they always go like yeah I mean natural it was always going to no not true not true I always had to battle but when you know that the hardest thing that I had to do was to please my dad the rest was nothing for me in bracket not disrespecting anything that happened in my career but that was so easy compared to what I had to do in order to please the the old man and my young self is still waiting for that approval still yeah I'm trying to connect with the little man it's said you

know I'm going to a different discussion now but I'm still trying I'm trying to connect with the the little man but you go back I go back too sorry to what you asked me what did it teach me is obviously to never give up do more but there's something that was missing that I understood late and I think for me the best leader you can be need the leader or the greatest leader do have that and I was missing that for a very long time which in in sport because you have to play a game

and you have to you're not here to you know oh you have a problem or let's have a talk about it you know when you play you play it stuff during a season is stuff during a game and stuff but vulnerability and empathy was missing those are the two greatest point of the leader for me when you show vulnerability and obviously you show empathy you you you can go places you can go places because if your group knows that you're like them and they can relate although you might be as you can you might be

hard as you know what they they will follow you but in football because of how it is because it is taboo sometime to be vulnerable it is taboo to show emotion you know the emotion that emotion the crying the this the that especially in my time in a dressing room you couldn't say anything it's a bit more accepted now if you say I'm not well mentally is is and and and and thank God for that by the way uh but all the above that that you can imagine for me it was always trying to be

the best version that I can be every day did you think you were going to be the player you become no how do how do you how do you how do you look look I just wanted to please my dad how am I going to think that I you fast forward are going to have a statue in front of the the the Emirates I mean how even when you were playing at Arsenal and you were winning them golden boots and you were winning everything and the invincibles and all of that you were still trying to

please your dad at your core in a way yeah I couldn't see it that constant look of to not name a movie The postet of happiness or the the the pursuit of pleasing people I love that movie so I um um yeah but I what that that that was my that what that's it's kind of weird when I always say when your your medicine is your poison because you always chase that were you happy um I don't know I never asked myself that question I couldn't care less I just couldn't care less like you saw

it you I mean you saw me play so I couldn't care less you saw me I my face was always hard was always you know I could smile it's funny I always say and this is why I always said to people and in France they used to have a go at me because I never used to celebrate my goals I always used to stand in a stoic manner way or you know always proud or or rage but people never used to see when I used to give an assist I always used to smile please watch

assist smile goal rage sweetd but pleasing again giving was always always always smiling you see even now I smile but goal no goal was just like that's what you had to do man because you're making the player that you've given the goal happy I guess you're giving them it's interesting because people who grew up in environments where they had a parent or parents that they were trying trying to please often tend to exhibit two traits one of them is being an empath with the term empath is like being so emotionally sensitive to how everyone's feeling

in every room all the time because that started as a young age with you know con you know and then the second is people pleasing and it they always say people pleases start with trying to please one or more of their parents and it's funny there's a cliche about comedians right comedians whenever I sit with a comedian the question is always which one of your parents was depressed which one of the parents were you trying to put smile on their face and this is cliche that comedians are depressed whereas when I've interviewed comedians they say

no no no no no it's my dad that was depressed and at four I was trying to make him smile and I and it's and that's and it's so interesting that in your case as well it was a very similar thing this question though like all these great achievements you know won the World Cup you know the Invincible Team all these Trophies the height the the peak of your powers and you can't tell me whether you were happy or not no no because for me I did what I had to do when you went home

though when you went home after a great game you get home if I'm a fly on the wall in that room do I see a man that's happy yes for a little while and then you because that's how the game is you know I was talking about gichi which is my assistant and you know played at Man City and and Arsenal with me the other day we were in Camp with the national team obviously being my assistant said to me cherry do you remember what you did one day I'm like I'm like I don't know

man said we won the league so he won the league with us when we stayed [Music] Invincible he said to me okay uh where where is the party tonight we going and everything so I'm not going to to no party tonight he said yeah but everybody's going I said yeah I'm not everybody stay home he said why said we have the Euro going home everyone went to the party I didn't so understand for me it was like Hey I have the Euro just the next thing yeah so you you you tend at one point not

to enjoy it while you're playing that was my way was the way or not I don't know but it was mine so girl was like you were crazy I said I don't know if I was crazy but that's how it was for me I have the Euro I need to concentrate for the Euro so I didn't go which time can be seen as a guy that keep himself to himself or doesn't want to belong in the team well I surely did when I was on the field for me that's the only thing that matters are

you going to cover me we don't have to be we don't have to be friends after that it goes back to what you were Tau to Value though you went taught to Value party celebration happiness you were taught to Value performance on the pitch you have to perform and so I said to you when you put that Cape that's what is asked of you then when I arve towards the end of my career I realized something I was big and something I was missing is I always thought that titles mattered and yes they do but

I always thought that that's the only thing that mattered when it's not true it's not true is how you is how you as I mentioned before is how you transcend and what you can transmit and also how you inspire people that matters and I never took I never thought about it when I was playing again because I didn't have those tools also when you went off to when you went off to Barcelona an adjustment period took place and you were married at the time and then you went through a divorce this question of love comes

back into the picture you know if you'd grown up in that household where your parents got divorced when you were seven or eight years old you know you look back who taught you and then you were in Academy at 13 so you get married the marriage falls apart when you're in Barcelona who taught you how to be in a relationship nobody with a love woman nobody you you deal with it you learn you fail uh again you know you you mentioned it I arrive at Barcelona I arrive injured I was divorcing adapting to a new

life new language new team new way of playing people don't care I don't I don't ask people to Care by the way because that's how it is but it's not easy it was stuff it was stuff don't see you don't see you know I couldn't see my daughter for a little while you know and people expect you to perform so what do you do you put the cap on put the cape on because that's the only way so okay you put the cape on you're like okay and you do feel that everything goes away it's

a feeling though it's an impression it's a lie but when I put that cape on I feel like you can't see that I'm hurt I feel like you don't see because now people see the player so in a in a in a in a weird way you want people to know and you want people to know how you feel that you're not equipped right now to perform and in in in the same time you you put it on because you don't want them to know you understand what I mean it's it's kind of way you're

like you know what let me put the cape on and then they will attack the player you want help but you don't want to ask for help you do but you don't it's kind of weird you you want you want someone to go like oh this is what's happening to him and you're like thank you but you don't want to say it what were the symptoms you said the word hurt if I again if I was a fly on the wall in that room in Barcelona when you were alone what was going on in your

head well just imagine I like to please people and everything everywhere was a no no I wasn't playing well you're divorcing so you you I'm feeling I'm letting my daughter down I'm listen the fans down I listen letting my friends down myself down everybody down just imagine how I am on wanting to please people and it wasn't happening so tough cap on cap off tough but the easiest way to deal with it was to put the cape on when the cape's not on what are your thoughts saying to at that time what you kind of

as a human being like did I make the right choice [Music] uh you know and I said it I think that par moment football wasn't really my priority if the cap wasn't on obviously but when the even before when the cap wasn't on was still football you need to rest you need to this you need to that but there it wasn't because it's it's actually technically and this is not me having a go at my dad or the relationship or or anything but I was like you know when swear that if you get married you

never get divorced because you know and you you know very little about life obviously and I was like I know this is exactly what happened to me or what's happening to me what are you doing you're repeating yeah to yourself like you know you you kind of like what are you doing this is why I said I say it so many times and I will say it again my biggest fear is not to be a good dad and and so I was go in my mind that doesn't mean it's not because you're going to divorce

you're going to be a bad dad but in my mind I'm letting people down I'm a bad dad I'm a bad whatever you understand what I mean my way of thinking I'm lying that's my biggest fear still still now is to to to to you know cuz I'm learning to be a dad like everybody by the way because you know that's that's but you know some dolls I didn't have some emotions I didn't have I wasn't often at home and still not often at home as you know this podcast is sponsored by and people often

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when did you what was the moment when you realized that you're playing Korea was behind you you know you obviously went off to America um for a while and then it you transferred to the New York Red Bulls and then you retired at sort of 37 years old but was there a moment where you realized a day where you thought do you know what I'm I'm not going to be on the pitch as a professional player anymore oh yeah there was a day uh and you might laugh but my daughter was at home in New

York I suffered of Achilles problem for more than 10 years both side uh as it was I was in pain every morning really pain pain was never going away all day both side both of myties uh just I just some sometimes I felt a bit better sometimes no but every morning I was in pain afternoon night for 10 years so I'm at home with my daughter and she comes she comes close to me and she touches me and she goes you it and she ran I wanted to run I couldn't I wanted to run I

couldn't I looked at her I said hey you won I couldn't chase her and I stopped I went what are you doing like I couldn't I just couldn't I I'm not even joking Stephen I I she run and I just couldn't move what are you doing that's when I knew I couldn't handle pain anymore because this is why it is people forget about anything that you can think of you need to love pain to be an athlete and I know no pain know this whatever all the you know the oh my no this is real

you need to love pain however mentally physically love it you need to love it if not stay where you are and then you retire eventually at 37 years old from professional football what happens then I I was in a way happy I'll tell you why because because I stopped some people stopped because of injuries some people stopped because of different stuff I stopped it was on my terms I stopped you know it's better than people were like Cher you still can play oh I knew I could still play but I stopped so I didn't have

a problem with stopping like you know when you know the fear that day I didn't have a problem with that but I didn't know what going to to come after you prepare yourself you pass your badges you you know you prepare yourself mentally and whatnot but then how do you fit the competitor how do you fit the guy that loves to please when he can do it or not every 3 days how when did you know that you were struggling when I wasw because the cape was always my thing to make sure that I when

I felt the struggle coming Cape so I knew it before but I was lying to myself or I was going to make sure that that feeling wasn't going to go too far so I put the cape on but then when you're not a player anymore you can't put that Cape anymore so then everything starts to crep in you know you think you go back to what happened what you became are you were with people are you behave with people were you a good guy not a good guy was it necessary sometime not necessary you start

to re to replay everything in your head on how you were what you did and pack you had on people the P that you had on yourself what type of person you want to be for your kids and that's when it becomes scary because you don't have the answers because usually have the answers for everything Theory tomorrow or that guy okay I'm going to work out on that work on this going to be better next weekend I going to work on this I'm going to work on that don't worry about it going to work you

know what next year next year you'll see I come back my left foot going to be sound my this my this my this my that I had answers now all I had is questions that's about it too many questions brain thinking other thinking and when you other think usually you don't go to the positive thinking when you overthink you you you tend to bring yourself down and and whatever wasn't good uh uh in your life you you you try to find way to make sure that you you can cover it but cap wasn't around anymore

so how do you do that were you sad no sad no no sad sad would not be the the word I wasn't sad but I was trying to find an explanation of of what happened to me regardless of why it is because I'm a guy that likes to have an explanation I need I need to know why and when you cannot answer it it is it is KN I find that not knowing when I cannot and and not everything has an explanation but this is the way I am I always need to have a logical

or illogical explanation even if your explanation is not logical explain something to me so when I cannot understand and comprehend what's happening to me it's the tough one what's happening to you in that moment post retirement or what happened to you in your career everything everything came at once especially uh during covid time because that's when I really stopped because again I was trying to find a way to find that Cape so you pass your your badges you you becoming a coach you try to do something to make sure that you're not going to to

to think about what's been chasing me for a very long time when are you going to deal with what happened to you whatever it is to you to me to whoever but we we we we tend to run instead of facing our problems that's what we do all the time you stay busy you you try to avoid the problem or not think about it uh but then Co happened and when Co happened what are you running why are you running what are you doing was uh you know isolated in uh in uh Montreal for a

year um not for a year I would say you know whenever the you know threee mo and another two Mo and whatever it was and not being able to see my kid kids for a year was tough was tough because but I mean it's a title right so I don't I don't need to even explain that one um but yeah it was tough because it had to something like that had to happen to me for me to understand vulnerability empathy crying uh you know understand that emotions are emotion just don't become it uh you know

it's you know anger is normal uh jealousy is normal but don't become jealous anger is normal don't become angry you know I couldn't I couldn't like if I before if I if I feel anger man I become angry if I was a again the question I asked earlier if I was a fly on the wall in quarantine watching you what would I have seen me crying almost every day for no reason tears were coming alone why I don't know but maybe they were waiting for they were there for a very long time was crying for

everything everything I'm watching a movie that's not even really sad but I'm crying you know everything I don't know if that needed to come out I don't know if you know was weird in a good way in a good way that there was some stuff that I couldn't control and to be fair I didn't try to control them and that's you know and I couldn't couldn't hide them I couldn't surpress them and do you want even to surpress them really you know but you've been told since you're young whe if it was at home or

in your job don't be that guy man don't show that you're You're vulnerable if you if you cry what what they're going to think which is it's not the end of the world but for me like if if if I when I was young I saw someone crying what are you doing man you know I'm like really type of thing so it was yeah you would have seen me crying you would have seen me technically it wasn't me it was it was the young me it was me understand what I'm saying but it was the

Young The Young ter there what was he crying for well for everything he didn't get I approval it's kind of weird to say that approval I got that I still get that all the time but I didn't want to hear it you know it wasn't it wasn't like it was coming but not feeding my little man so my little man I want point to control of that body and and it was tough you know you need to have the balance this is what I'm trying to do now to have the balance between me and and

my inner child which is not an easy one this is why I always say to people once you have the that discussion with that little guy inside you it's scary man it is scary because what he going to tell you is everything that you didn't want to hear or trying to avoid for a very long time and he took control and what did he tell you just be be yourself be human show you are really stop fronting stop lying because we're Liars we pretend we live in a world right where let's all be honest we

live in the world where we've both been told do not judge the book by his cover right we do the total opposite every day we do the total opposite go and try to find a job with a tracksuit and you arrive with your hood on walk in and see if they're going to receive you but we've been told since we're young right Stephen do not judge the book by his cover that's a lie that's all we do our appearances matter and then we keep on saying to our kids no the L doesn't matter really Luke

doesn't matter let's all be honest it does we want to pretend or think that you've been we are saying the right things because it looks cool but when it comes to do it it's a different story it is a different story look we we we go we go you know this is why I like the movie Black Black Panther you know when when when he's in the museum and the girl says what are you doing here I said that's from my Village what are you talking about we have stuff that have been in the world

stolen for however however it was however it happened or whatever that are in museum that that that maybe you from that part and you can't go in because you're not dressed well or because and people are making money out of those things and you know what are we doing what are we talking about and we sitting here trying to say all the time pretending or whatever it is it's a bit all falls so we you tag along you play the game but that that has an impact I remember the first time I experienced something that

would be considered a mental health issue and I remember the the almost the shame I felt because I never thought that as a young CEO at the of 21 I always had to be the tough guy but also I always thought those mental health challenges happened to other people so there was almost a bit of struggle with my own sort of Shame and accepting my own vulnerability that and like do I talk to someone about this or do I keep it to myself when you're in that room in covid and you're crying every day and

you don't know why at that point do you have someone that you can talk to about how you're feeling truly and be 100% honest with how you're feeling all these years later you must have been what 40 40 in your 40s yeah it was 2020 yeah it's look it's tough it's tough [Music] because you know I'm trying to bring myself there um it's very difficult cuz I I don't know who the wom the the the human being was like I I I don't know I just didn't know like I said to you I go back

I didn't have those doors I didn't have those tools I didn't I didn't know uh I I I just didn't know everything was new for me that part of my body those dolls that I didn't have before the understanding of the that side of the of the of the of the game want I say the game talking about life obviously uh dealing with uh love and and it was we weird weird my my my way of dealing with love was like you know like I said pleasing again like you know giving present to people oh

my God I'm happy then I asked myself that question what makes you happy Cherry what makes you happy obviously my kids but again it's my kids what makes you happy at zero answer zero so you know when you it's kind of weird because I when you look at it this is this is what I would like to achieve but it's is virtually impossible whether you act with your brain or you act with your heart and at times both feels good especially with your heart because it brings different emotions and when you act with your brain

is a bit more no I'm not doing it here is like let's let's let's see what's going to happen right right but both if you can balance right your thoughts and the way you act and you can walk on the on on the Rope you know like the funer we call them tight rope tight rope yes and you are walking on there in harmony with your inner child connected balancing decision with your heart and decision with your brain that will me the that's in my head the image of the perfect human being you walking on

a tight rope with your inner child balancing decision with your brain and with your heart because if you go too much that that side you're going to fall although you are in harmony with your inner child if you go that way you're also going to fall which we all know it's impossible but that's you know so I had to in my head create that picture that I have the tattoo of it by the way but I had to create that picture in order to see what I'm Hing for I need to I needed that I

needed something you know before I was you're trying to please your dad whether I was aware or not aware of it doesn't matter it was in me what am I trying to do now what is it so I had to draw something in that room did you know if I was in a room in Co in the pandemic and I'd been you know this Superstar athlete and then I find myself in the situation where I'm crying in the hotel or in the in the in the room are you self- diagnosing do you understand what that

is at the time no but I had to do it so do the body the body okay the body does heal itself whether if it's going to be beautiful or not it will eventually in a certain way heal itself and even if you walk in a weird way after you will walk your body will readjust or not why can you not heal yourself alone mentally to a certain degree because you need help I understand that but this is what I'm saying if you Expos to something for so long it would have an impact on you

but it somehow along the way you did adapt to it like you will adapt to living in a hot country or in a cold country I go and said how can you live here you're like I grew up here man so I got used to it that doesn't mean it's okay but you do in a way adapt to it or you learn how to live with it or you don't so I did learn how to live live with it with a lot of impact on me as you can see a lot of consequences that I'm

still trying to deal with but yes I do you do self deal with it or self diagnose yourself without realizing it did you it sounds like you were struggling with a form of depression when you were in that phase of your life did you know that that's what it was no and did you that's impossible I I don't know I didn't know in hindsight do you think that's what it was I would like to think so but how do I know cuz I don't know the signals like I cannot tell you that I was or

wasn't I don't know the signals like I don't know said to me right now I don't know like if you give me any other signals not any of let me tell you anger this and that yeah yeah I was angry man yeah were you I'm like but how you've heard people characterize it now and describe it now does that yeah it does ring a Bell more than the Bell but was it you know I'm look I'm a human being so I have feelings throughout my career and since I was born I must have been in

depression did I know it no did I do something about it obviously no but I adapted to a certain way that doesn't mean I'm walking straight but I'm walking you gota you got to put one foot and another one and walk that's that's what I've been told since I'm young and it doesn't matter where you're from it doesn't matter what you do it doesn't matter your your job you got to walk you got to stand no matter how the the rough the sea is whatever it is you got to stand and walk and and people

have a you know way out life than than I obviously but I'm just saying it doesn't matter you have to get up and walk so do do I realize because I never stopped walking then maybe I would have realized Co I stopped walk uh walking cuz I couldn't put a foot after and again I couldn't I just couldn't Ste so that's why I was like oh I need to pose then you start to realize and you start to other thing then you start to to to whatever I know it's kind of a cliche one you

need to stand it's not how you fall it's how you stand yeah we all know right not trying to be uh uh you know uh clever here but I've been told you know keep on walking I I say this because your story brings to like a bunch of Statistics that I've I was reading about as it relates to mental health um someone dies by suicide in the UK every 90 minutes 76% of these are male 25 attempts for every death single biggest cause of death for men under the age of 45 is suicide single biggest

cause of death for 15 to 49 year olds 19 to 35 year olds are twice as likely to report being in the these stats are absolutely shocking and there're almost 80% of this is men it's the this crazy stat that people always talk about the single biggest cause of death if you're under the age of 45 uh I will this is please this is not a sexist thing or whatever I don't want to enter the battle men w this is not where I'm going but it's not easy to be a man that sheare pressure and

it is and the stats you know will tell you uh and I I keep on saying I don't know this is not me trying to say that I thought about it or whatever not not at all not that but I I told you that there I'm sure you remember my kids saved me and I'm not saying that just like that but literally I'll explain yeah I'll explain I don't know where I was going mentally I don't know really I don't know where I was I was going CU when I came back from covid came back

home I didn't see because after that year we were allowed back home but then I knew if I was going back to Montreal I don't know what was happening with Co if I was going to not see my kids for a year or whatever so I'm at home next you know it's a month whatever I pack my bags I was about to leave again so I said bye to my kids everybody was there and you remember when I told you uh my my young me never got any approval never got any recognation no no how

can I explain that no no love Yeah in bracket apart from the you know the we have food we have this but was never hugging or or saying or nodding or any approval like that pack my bag I'm like okay Daddy's about to leave next thing you know I put my bags down and everyone starts to cry so I put my bags down to say bye to everybody and everybody starts to cry from the The Nanny to to my girlfriend to the kids everybody was crying and then for the first time for the first time

and I know people say oh my God Cherry for the first time because at that moment it was the little me that felt it I'm like oh they see me not the football player not the accolades not the and I felt human not you know me always trying to please people because oh you play football or you can put your cape on or this is why they like you that's what they want to see they want to see a guy that's strong a guy that's going to perform trans transmit transcend Inspire and the both so

be that guy okay boom let's do it again today let's do it again today but for the first time that day I was like oh they see me they were crying because you were leaving yeah but this they were crying for me to happy or crying for the athlete understand me well I'm not saying they didn't before but I never realized it I never for the I felt it the first time there and my little me for the first time got fed with love put my bags down but I told you and I stayed I

stopped coaching in Montreal I said I said what am I doing what am I doing going to go again into situation just because you're pursuit of pleasing people and stuff and stuff they they love they love Terry the kids not not not t Henry they love ti so I stayed and for the first time and I'm not scared to say it I felt human I felt like people like they saw me like the human being I was like well that feel nice it feels really nice this is why I said my kids save me so

I don't where I was going I don't know if I was going to obviously go back not see them again I don't know where mentally that would have brought me I I don't I I don't actually know but that day is a special day for me because because yeah that what they did fed my little my little me and you know when you you you you've been looking for something for so long but you don't know what it was m you just don't know it's annoying it's like you're looking for something you know you're looking

for something but you don't know what it is and you you've been thrown a lot of things no that's not it no that's not it no that's not it that's still not it still not it and then out of nowhere when I wasn't looking for anything it came but it was right in front of you the whole time yeah was I was I open enough to say it though that the thing was I you know this is why covid you know made me you know might vulnerability empathy understanding those emotions so the doors were there

so suddenly when that happened oh I was like oh that door well that's a new door that's nice open boom done before like maybe that happened before and never felt it if you know what I mean it's it's kind of weird but I felt it that day though and it did resonate and you quit working in Montreal yeah straight away straight away it it reminds me I got a flashback to speaking to Patrice Patrice Evra Patrice Evra grew up in the south of France I believe rough rough area no same down as me same town

yeah south of Paris same town we from the same town Patrice is a good friend of mine and he he told me um he shared it publicly on this podcast before that he I think he was 40 years old and his partner at the time kept asking him like are you okay are you okay are you okay and then one day she's at home there having a little bit of a tiff and she turns to him and goes Patrice are you are you happy and he looked at her and he burst into tears cried for

the first time in his life and it sounds like a similar moment a similar sort of unlocking him was the first time in his life he could ever show that emotion and he said it was that moment first time I ever cried first time I ever showed her emotion because up until then I'd been a tough guy um and it was just the a question asked at the right moment the right question from the right person that inspired him to boom and he says that's the moment that unlocked his his emotions and obviously he's on

a journey as well with no no no no I know yeah yeah yeah Patrice look it it's yeah this is why I literally say that they they saved me because I don't know where I was going I really don't know I really don't know but like I said it's very difficult for me to compare to uh the way I was before and and why you worked in bracket then and not before because I was blind like I just just said I said so many times you know I could see so for example you put me

on the field I see Solutions because I used to see the game with my brain not with my eyes i' explain you have dimensions on the field right MH right it's a rectangle yeah if you put your head up what can stop you this is why great players always pass the ball in the air you know when they arrive by the Box they lift it how you defend the air you can't defend the air I always used to say like you can't pass me because they think that the line is there right I used to

chip the ball over your leg of course I can pass your can you can't defend the air 20 billion people defending me if you hold the line bowling behind you're dead not on the ground in the air so I I used to see the game with my brain I see life with my eyes and eyes can be pretty deceiving MH so you know I I see obstacles you see with your brain you're like okay how can oh I can go through there okay no problem but life I used to see it I'm trying to change

obviously I used to see it with my eyes so no no no but when he when it came to competing I was like it's impossible that you can stop me so okay oh okay that's a solution you sound like a man that's been through to therapy because you use terminology that I've typically heard from therapists things like the inner child and no that's something that I've since I'm young oh really I always knew that uh I was disconnected with my little self uh and the thing is that's how I used to play Disconnected no just

I I you know all since I'm young like I see a solution like if someone says we can't do this I'm like why why it's like you know I me you saw me play I I used to come in Midfield and and take the ball and go I'm going to goal and at particular moment anyone will go like oh it's impossible it's one v9 and I explain so time it's not one v9 it's one V one if I beat you I beat the line of four if I beat you my son back after I beat

the line of four then I beat the goalkeeper it's one V one at the time it's one V one it's one V one and I score while I do it or not def ball game but I was capable of visualizing visualizing sorry the path instead of seeing so let me put the ball back why why are you pushing the ball back like okay Steven One V one I don't care about the two guys are on your side I beat you they're dead it's nothing they can do now you and me after Center back let's go

I'm not saying and I didn't go through all the time it's a lie but I'm seeing the solution so it's it's always something that I I used to have so and again to be in situation at one point you need to over analyze yourself but am I seeing someone yes I'm seeing someone just I'm not I'm not lying with that but the the two points that you raised are always at that because I I have I was annoying as a player and as a student I was always challenging my coaches always I needed to know

why are we doing this drill like was never going to do a drill in training like boss why yeah but we don't need that in the game oh why how can you say that just being honest I'll do it but I don't think we need that in the game I just wanted to know why we're doing this why is it going to be relevant to how we play like I got in trouble once at school um we were analyzing a poem you know or whatever Terry what do you think of that poem whatever so I

think the author wanted to say that whatever I said the teacher was like no that's not what he meant I'm like wait can I speak I go Cherry you always have something to say I said well not always but I mean anyway so I said to the to the teacher have you ever met Victor Ugo she said no I said how do you know what he meant then is not the beauty of of words can I not see something different that you see as long as you don't bring Victor you goey and to tell me

what he really meant I'm not going to go with what you're saying she sent me to the Head Headmaster office but what I'm trying to say I was always that guy why are you going to tell me what I see of it it's good that's what you think maybe the guy was drunk when he wrote it maybe he was under something I mean one of the best uh uh Disney movie is Alis in Wonderland I mean when you look at she clearly wasn't something yeah but it it wasn't not the beauty of letting someone open

their mind so I always have been big on that even young without realizing I I needed to know so just imagine now knowing all the ingredients now about me imagine now in that room room over thinking yeah in Montreal yeah sounds CU I I I need I need an explanation that's why I'm saying someone because because I need explanations and sometimes you you don't have all the tools are you still looking for answers uh no I'm trying to deal and digest with what happened cuz I now I have the answers but it's not because you

have the answers sometimes that you understand what happened yeah you see what I mean I can give you the answer of a of a of a riddle and you're like did you understand no you know what I mean so you can have the answer of something and you're like oh okay cool yeah did you get it though yeah yeah yeah yeah that's the answer no no did you get it yeah yeah yeah so that's that's the get in it and the absorbing it and the digesting part of it that I'm trying to to to come

to terms with I guess it breaks down into three stages which is to know to understand and then to do like the behavior change so to know something is one thing we can all know things we all know we should go to the gym and and you don't I'm saying you obviously but people don't they know it's better and they still don't yeah and then understand why that matters and why you should go not everyone understands that and then to do it most people don't do it so there's three stages to implementing something we know

um and you're in the stage of understanding and implementing it's tough though man like it's tough late in life to to even with me with emotions and affection like I still call I always called my parents by the first name never called the m and Dad yeah yeah yeah never hugged never nothing so going into a relationship as like a 31y old man it's all very like like you were describing awkward like sometimes I feel like I'm faking it when I say things like emotional things I know I've got to say it but I don't

I can't connect with it I'm classed as like an avoidant emotionally I avoid um we all do however this is why I call the the cape cape can be anything yeah for me it's business so sometimes exactly oh when I know not anymore when I knew a conversation was going in a certain you know was going somewhere I didn't want to be in I'm like hey I I have to make a phone call like an emotional conversation whatever things that I didn't feel comfortable I'm out as a dad now is much of your motivation to

do the work based on who you want those three children to be and the dad they want to connect with it's tough because like I said to you there's there's it's not about not getting a good example it's not the it's not the word but I didn't I didn't have I didn't have an example understand there is a difference we're not talking about good example I'm talking about I didn't have a real example of a couple at home so for me that's already difficult to deal with that as as a as a as a dad

because oh my dad used to or my dad you know it didn't it didn't happen because he wasn't around for that then I myself wasn't a lot at home as a as a player as a dad and that carries on because of work or thanks to work but because of work but thanks to work if not also because if not there's no home there's no nothing there's no but having saying that trying to fight the find the right balance on something that I already struggle with myself of being at home but also how to be

gave when you at when you at home as a dad and that's the fight of a lot of men that's why they pursue work because it's it's in our head a a a a more of a comfortable place is your comfort zone while you think it's your comfort zone because nothing can be more Comfort Comfort comfortable sorry than than being with your kids but again you you pretend to live a certain life because you're you're afraid to find yourself in situation where you don't know what to do and it's kind of awkward or weird so

you like oh people are going to see me naked they see my weakness uh I have work to do I'm going to the office and you leave oh I'm going somewhere or I'm going you find a way to go somewhere all the time you understand what I'm saying and and I'm not trying to you know let let me rephrase that you don't find a way to but when things comes you don't say no yeah that's a better way to explain it when a work opportunity you don't say no yeah instead of going no this is

time with my family because we are privileged in the way to say no I'm talking about being privileged because sometimes you cannot say no but if we are privileged what are you actually chasing yes money let's not let's all be honest okay money okay but what are you is it is it more important than spending time with people that you love but because you don't know how to behave it's kind of a it's kind of a weird way and then you said the same thing your ways work okay yeah for I've been at home for

a week now uh I not really me you know so those are the stuff that are difficult to deal with in my brain it's kind of weird I know people say really that's really hard yeah for me it is really hard because I've never been a homebody you never been at home since since I'm 30 I've been on the road you know and leave leave almost alone you know on flights or or somewhere you know whatever it is you know so that I know well I'm not saying it's good or that I know well so

I'm like Terry tomorrow you need to do this alone or whatever you need to go back with travel you're like yeah let's find something oh that's tiring no it's okay just but it's also Comfort right it's familiar it is it is it's interesting CU this is why when you're young as a kid you always want to watch the same cartoon that you know even it's the same episode because knowing what's coming next makes her feel comfortable the familiar whether it's healthy or not the therapists I've spoken to on the show always talk about how we

would we unfortunately try and recreate the unfamiliar as adults even if it was unhealthy and they s say that in relationships people will go for a partner even if they're you know their father or mother was abusive they'll go for that because it was the the way they learned love and I think about it the same with with our careers as well you know it's uh it really is a difficult adjustment to make later in life to go from being almost like institutionalized and I use that word to describe the life of a top athlete

that's always you know preparing for a game always flying around the world always got a clear Focus to suddenly having none of it um and to have to as you described almost like rebirth yourself there's a death and there's like a rebirth and and and and and this is exactly what I why I said you die you do it's a shock it's a shock to the system when you whatever you you do in your life by the way I loved it so I loved football I still love but love football as a competitor like the

athlet regardless of what people say you still can play football yeah yeah I know not like that that is over I don't care what people say no you know you can work on now that's over never gonna play again never goingon to play in the Prem never goingon to play Never Never that's that's over that's dead so what's what's the new tiar what's the what was born out of those ashes what's the next chapter for me my my biggest challenge now is to be a good dad I don't really care about the rest I do

understand what I'm saying so to speak but in comparison to that yeah is to be a better dad because I'm not there yet not at all actually uh I I have a long way to go um but I'm working on it you know I'm not perfect but I'm aware of what I'm missing that's always a good start uh so for me that's that's I what I would say you know a better a better dad and and and and a better uh partner uh you know because for so long you you think that what you're doing

is to please others bring money back to have a good life and everything but along the way you're missing the the the the the right moment of and the true essence of life this is why I said sometime it's tough to be a man in a certain way is we've been told that we need to go out there and and be men I don't even know what it's supposed to mean do you understand what I mean that's that's why before I go back to oh be a man what is that because not showing emotion is

not being a man but I've been told not to show emotion that's being a man that's wrong so I need to to readjust to that you know go out there be that be strong be the the level of expectation of always delivering whatever you need to deliver you know be a good dad be a good partner it's like for everybody by the way you know I'm not talking about gender and everything but I'm a man so but be a man what is that supposed to mean if you could go back and have a conversation with

that 5year old tierry and you could say a couple of words to him that maybe would have helped him later in life um that's a tough one because that's the fun because I I always say I always say when people ask me that I'll say Enjoy the Ride enjoy the ride and I insist on enjoy cuz I I forgot to enjoy the ride and you do you regret that no I don't regret it because maybe if I did enjoy the ride I would have been different it's so weird for me to say that but this

is what I will say to him now knowing that he might have an impact on his life and maybe not being that good of a player or maybe better I don't actually know but I don't I don't regret stuff because that's what made you in a way you know you learn from from people are scared of failing I'm I wasn't scared of failure you know I I was more scared not to please people but failure you're going to fail you know and that's what makes you that's what shapes you so when people say regret I

don't regret it because makes you be better or a better man or a better person or whatever it is so I don't have regrets but a thing along the way we enjoy we we we we forget to enjoy living to enjoy it we just we just do it it's like breathing you don't think about breathing right are you living now yeah I am I'm enjoying it I'm trying to enjoy it I'm trying to accept you know when people say something to me like I I never used to take a compliment well as you can imagine

because what used to trigger me the most was what I didn't do well so when someone was like oh Cherry you good well that's what I'm supposed to do Terry we have a closing tradition on this podcast which is kind of interesting because the last guest leaves a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for and it's funny that this is the question that's been left for you what do you most regret from your childhood and how are you working to resolve that regret what do you regret I said you I

don't regret anything but what I would say to solve it in a way I don't regret regret it it's true it's it's not a cliche thing I do think that when you you you you this is your mistakes will make you better hopefully but what I will say to my young self is actually uh enjoy it don't forget to enjoy it and be happy the question before I'm going to ask you instead because I already asked you that what things are you doing that are contributing to keeping you stuck or stopping you from progressing in

the way that you would like uh pleasing people still yeah because it's some that's something I cannot get rid of but I need to to to balance it out with my own happiness so I can't help myself pleasing people that's something that I have in me and I think you know what it's I think personally it's it's a good trade but you can't go too far with it because you forget your own happiness what do you want people to you know we know the tiar on the on the pitch the Legend but what do you

want to be remembered as especially considering your you know you've got so many chapters of life left to live I like I said to you I just want to be remembered because if you are remembered is because you've done something uh you're going to be remembered but that's good enough for me then it will depends on people but for me what matters right now is are you are you transcend people what you transmit and how you can help people for example to be able to open up like the way I am matters for me more

than because when you did succeed and people see you as someone that they like to follow tell them you struggled tell them the real you for them to understand fully what's happening and that matters more than any title that I want that matters more than anything else be honest stop lying and I did lie for for a very long time because you have to because Society wasn't ready to hear what you have to say especially in my world uh but that if you can have an impact on someone's life and the other day I was

in Miami I will be honest with you I don't I don't really I don't get bothered I I'm not too bothered when people say oh my God Cherry like I love it I love to hear it but I'm not like after like did you see what he said you know I don't take it too far but there was a guy the other day I'm in Miami a cup he came and he says to me cherry can you can you sign on on my arm what you what you what you going to do it's like I

mean so no I'm going to tattoo your your your autograph and I was like and I looked at him I said come on man you have you know more important stuff to do and he goes like no you changed my life so I looked at him and I went sorry they went yes man you don't understand through the struggle I was looking up to you and you changed my life I didn't know what to say I I didn't know what to say I really like I stopped and I looked at people and I went then

I realized what matters then I realized without knowing from the the the the the the the mission of a man from the mission of my dad actually throughout all the struggles all the problem that I'm still dealing with that's for that that is exactly for that because you that man said to me like I change his life saved him from playing football it's like I said to you is what you transmit in now you transcend people I don't know why he saw because I you know I had to go and I actually took his uh

his his address and his name I still have it at home I need to write him write something for him and send him something soon but that is something yes when like up until now and that's something yes I will tell my kids not that I won W cups and stuff like that I will tell my kid tiry thank you so much for having this conversation with me um for many many reasons I I met you in Paris and I sat there in awe because I knew the player but I didn't know the man and

I sat there on the edge of my chair because I got a glimpse of the man and for me you know the stuff you did on the field you're a legend there's you know there's almost nobody that I can there's no comparisons there on the field but the the thing that blew me away was your willingness to speak so vulnerably and powerfully as a human and as a man and that's why I then messaged you straight after and said please I would love to have a conversation with you because it left such a profound impact

on me to think oh my God tiar on re feels those things Taron re has those struggles it makes it okay for me to have those struggles and it will make it okay for the millions of people that will listen to this conversation to have those struggles as well and in and and in normalizing it and us all realizing that those struggles aren't evidence of my inadequacy or evidence that I'm broken it's actually evidence that I'm a human being too like tiar exactly helps me to move past those struggles and that's the one of the

most powerful things and I think one of the most inspiring things that you can do and it's another example of TI R transcending in another chapter of his of his life in another way so thank you so much thank you and I say that thanks I extend it on behalf of everybody listening as well who who would love to be able to say it to you thank you so much thank you thank you Stephen do you need a podcast to listen to next we've discovered that people who liked this episode also tend to absolutely love

another recent episode we've done so I've linked that episode in the description below I know you'll enjoy [Music] it