This Is Where AI Is Taking Us — An AI & Social Media Playbook For 2025 | GaryVee w/ Iced Coffee Hour

Are you guys posting a lot on Facebook regular? We've done it in the past. That was the perfect answer. This podcast will explode if you get serious about posting multiple times a day on Facebook organic. Wait a minute. Wait, wait a minute. Are you talking clips like 4 to 12 minute clips? Are you talking full length podcast? You're talking about shorts? Yep. So everything. I'll be honest with you. What happened to our Facebook was that it got completely demonetized and it's been shut down basically for a year and a half because they deemed it as

reused content even though it was our original content. start another page. Oh, we had 200 something 300,000 followers on it. Who gives a Okay, followers don't matter anymore. I think they matter a little bit. They do. You're right, but but not as much as they did. And it is way on its way to being to a place where it's completely not going to matter. We are fully no longer in social media. We are fully in interest media. One of the things I really admired about you is that you've been able to almost see and predict

the future of what's going to be happening when it comes to social media. And I remember you saying in like 2019 or 2018 about Tik Tok. Yes. And I remember uh starting to post on Tik Tok because of what you were saying back in like 2018 or 2019 I think my first Tik Tok. What do you seeing now as the future landscape for business or for marketing or for getting yourself out there? I know you mentioned Tik Tok shop live shops. Yeah, I love shop obsessed with live shopping. If you're listening right now and you

sell stuff, you need to go to whatnot and Tik Tok shop and start selling ASAP. The QVC evocation of social media is here in the West. It's been going on in China for 10 years. Do it. Do it. The acceleration of organic is also on my mind. You I I could not speak more to my belief of non-overexposure volume creative for relevance for different consumers. For example, you have Gary Vee on now. Your clip with me and you on your social. If the next post is you with a female entrepreneur in her 80s, that's going

to hit different audiences. Different subjects we're going to talk about in this podcast. Now, I actually think all the social networks should create two feeds. 100% guaranteed view rates from who you care about. Maybe limiting that. There was a great app that I was an investor in called Path years ago that was made by Dave Morren, a great entrepreneur who was an early Facebook employee. His app was called Path. He basically made an Instagram. He made Instagram before Instagram. They came out the same time. I don't recall, but you could only have 140 or 120

or 150, I don't remember. It was based on a law of like how many relationships can a human have? I don't remember the name, but you could only have 150 followers. It was awesome, right? Cuz you would only follow who you really want to follow. Mhm. I think if Facebook implemented on Instagram and Facebook and if Tik Tok implemented one feed that is 100 people max but you see every post from them and the other one fully interest fully interest that that's the killer app that's what I would build right now. H another thing that

virtual influencers to answer your question I think the rise of virtual influencers is going to be one of the biggest things over the next 5 years. I think you guys should create humans that promote your [ __ ] and I I don't think that's possible with two male. No, I understand that part the old way. I think Graham and you should hire a company and actually make your third host a female who's not a real person who's involved in your content, promoting your show, selling your product. I think I think every human is going to

be in the IP business. In 20067, I predicted that everybody would be in social media and I got really laughed at cuz it was like nobody was on it and everybody thought it was stupid. Like, who cares if you're walking the dog? Like Twitter used to get on. Like why would you tweet? Like you're eating pizza. Who gives a You understand you're young and you were too young for this. Like the concept of sharing your thoughts was like not acceptable. That was relegated for people on TV. In certain programs, this is a new phenomenon. The

the fact that everybody thinks like I'm out there. I believe every person's in the intellectual property business. I believe that within a decade many people, millions of people will own virtual people and monetize them the way that Disney monetizes Mickey Mouse. So I've seen some of these with like fake Only Fans. Correct. Where they've just created that avatar. That's right. And if you look at Only Fans and you know the sex industry always porn only fans they they're always and obviously Only Fans is now broading out but like they're always ahead. Yes. you, if you've

seen that, you probably also know that a year ago those girls predominantly looked really fake. I'm going to say something to you right now. You have consumed a piece of content on Instagram that is an AI person and your eyes and brain 100% already. Now, you're still consuming a lot in there that is clearly fake, a lot better than it looked a year ago. And in 3 years, not one human's going to know the difference. I can't believe it. I saw on Twitter there's a whole thread about this guy making $10,000 a month in profit

from an AI character that he made that he's posting on Instagram and doing brand deals. That's right. With his whole character. That's right. That's already and hasn't even started. On the topic of AI, what are your top three most insane AI predictions? That your grandkids will marry an AI human. And what's your conviction level on that? 100%. that they're going to marry an AI. Your grandchild is going to marry an AI human. So, this is what we've been talking about. I think people are going to have relationships fully AI boyfriend, girlfriends. I I think it's

going to be indistinguishable. You mean Fox, right? The thing like from that movie you saw that on Netflix like the AI robot, she or her or not that one. There was a Megan Fox one that just came out. Nonetheless, they're all the same. I believe a robot that is fully AI will marry a human and vice versa for real in your lifetime at scale. And and when you say an AI, does that mean like a physical body of a robot? So you're saying that the bodies will get so good that it will look like you

and like I could I don't know if you know this, but people have sex with sex dolls. Jack does it. That that explains what that thing is in your closet. And obviously like that is like super taboo and it's 2025 and I I'm not educated on it though I don't like I don't judge anyone who does but my intuition is that in 20 years because the AI can power the robot and because of where we're going and what's going on that that's fully see I've said the same thing because certain AIs people are getting really

attached to them just like back and forth. What the what do you think online dating is? That's the same. You know that, right? But I'm like, no, no. People fall in love on text. Like people on Tinder or Rya after 3 hours of texting back and forth fall in love. Then the physical part happens. So what is this going to do to society if we're all just society looks like right now to a caveman? if we dug up a caveman. But do you think this is a just population collapse that people are not going to

reproduce? Maybe, but probably not fully cuz everyone thinks in or just cuz I'm a robot doesn't mean I'm not willing to a human. So you think but if it's industive relationships you think it will be non-exclusive relationships. Actually, you know what's funny? I've thought about this. I actually think AI robots may save marriages. Like I've been thinking about that a lot, which is like does a couple introduce just like real couples introduce swinging and another partner. Now, is it even better to introduce an AI robot that may help whatever sexual or emotional things are going

on in that relationship to become an offsetting contributor to a mar? One could argue, this was going to be my second one, that AI will be the reason marriage increases longevity and decreases divorce. I would almost argue that it would be the reason why people just wouldn't get married because you would just but it might be both. Both can exist in that scenario. I feel like the word of the day is and and not over. the I would tell you that you know as people continue to dissect everybody I have a feeling people will like

I'm starting to learn I figured out and I'm sure people that will are for whatever weird reason interested in dissecting me yes and versus or is foundationally to why I'm happy and successful foundational I actually can't see the word I can't see the world in any other way it's always and everything to me is maybe yes and no are both vulnerer vulnerabilities. You know that, right? I mean, things are going to be absolutes. Yes and no are vulnerabilities. So, if you start with something with an immediate yes or an immediate no, there's vulnerabilities. I hate

no cuz it's defense and cynicism. I kind of weirdly love yes cuz it's optimism, but a lot of times it's delusional. Maybe is a great place to start everything. I just think this is going to lead to complete population collapse. That people are going to be more isolated than ever because they'll have an AI person that they could constantly be around that's going to be perfect for them. What if what if what if we're the most isolated now and AI actually starts the decrease of isolation because you fully feel emotionally all the way there. Sure,

but I think in terms of population collapse. Yeah. I think the government's going to have to come in and really incentivize that because it's already happened. Well, I I think they have to offer I think they have to offer bonuses for people to have children. You're too smart. You already know that's true. That's already happened. That's what Korea is offering right now. But to an extreme here in the United States, what are we protected from everything else? Of course, that's what's going to happen. Governments are going to be fighting for people. Do you understand what's

about to happen? Governments are going to be paying I'm going to get offered ungodly amounts of money to live somewhere else. You know that, right? Governments are fighting with each other for talent. So, how good will a human be though when we have AI that's better? Uh, well, I don't know if I don't know if it'll be better. It'll be different. It's an again an and state. Like I don't know if it's going to be better, but like like a human will like our brains are pretty intense, bro. You know that, right? Like our brains

are legit. Like we're going to do other like when the tractor was invented, everyone's like, "What are people going to do? We all work on farms. We figured it out." You don't think this would be demotivating for people who could just plug into something, zone out, or be with an AI avatar or whatever, and just be perfectly content sitting in the room all day? I think most people are doing that now in a different to an extreme but even more people like if someone's having an average life going to a 9 to5 but they could

stay home and just be with this avatar plug into this system that keeps them perfect. Why is that bad? I'm like like I'm I'm not I haven't thought it through. I'm actually just like framing up the the banter. I would say that a large portion of society would be isolated in that regard and you'll have a few select people who don't want to go in that direction. Yeah, I I think I think you're looking at it way too surface level. Let's bring it up. Fair. Isolated. If you're not feeling isolated, this was the argument of

online dating. You're basically just doing a more mature argument of online dating of why online dating was creepy and weird and not going to work. Yeah. The counter to that though is that you do have such a high uh percentage of people now under like 30 not leaving their parents, not meeting people, not doing anything. Sure. Hey, what the bro? my argument. You're actually you're actually countering your argument. You know that, right? How so? AI is not here that we're talking about. Yeah, but we're going in that direction when it's like No, no. Sure. I'm

arguing that this might solve the problem we're in right now. Graham, I think, is trying to say that it might exacerbate it. He might be right. Yeah. I don't think it's to solve a problem. I think it's just going to make it worse. I think you're a pessimist. Okay. and and maybe practical and maybe and maybe cautious and maybe not delusional. Let me say this though. Humans are the most underestimated, underrated brand and entity in the world. Let me give you an example. Let's say this interesting conversation was in 1950 and we were talking about

the atomic bomb just invented, just dropped and now we know Russia has one too. I have a funny feeling if I sat here and said it will not be used for the next 70 years that you would have taken the counter. Humans are underestimated, bro. That's what everyone who's listening, I'm telling you right now, humans are underestimated. This AI is big. This last 10 minutes was super fun and like fun banter. We're all trying to think it through. I would say underestimating the human is a mistake. And I would say that for all the people

like, "What are you talking about, Gary Vee? It's now I would say that you don't understand history. It is not now. You believe it's now because all of you have gotten sucked into listening to dumb. I think I'm incredibly driven by gratitude. It is not lost on me. That a day that I wake up where no one that I care about has died or became terminally ill is a good day. I'm very half glass full. I really thrive on optimism and gratitude. So I'm in a good mood. And when you're in a good mood, you

get more done. Like if you're dwelling, you're not as productive. You're not as excited. If you're not happy, like when I'm concerned or challenged, my energy is not as high. I'm not as light. So you think if more people practice that, they would have more energy throughout the day to get more done? 100%. And not even like from a business, you know, I love my business life, but I'm just talking about like life. Like more done as in like and just like it's better. How do you consciously and actively practice gratitude? Is it like a

journal or is it every morning you It's a conversation with myself. Pretty consistent. It's I think I'm so deep on this. Like I don't need a journal. I don't need an app. I don't need a a guru. I don't need a podcast to listen to to get me there. I think I've been on it for so long. In fact, it's a little weird. You catch me at a good time. I've become very introspective. I'm going to go pretty deep with you on this one. Both my parents lost a parent very very early on. My mom

lost her mom at five. My dad lost his dad at 15. Recently, I've realized how big of a currency and a backdrop that was to my own childhood. I was pretty petrified to lose one of my parents. Like for real, like you guys are young enough that like you probably can remember your childhood pretty solidly. Like I do not believe you or Mike that who's my dude here in the background. I don't think the three of you or the millions that are listening over the next decade, I don't think most people thought about their parents

dying suddenly multiple times a week in their youth. I did. So, I think kind of my curse of that became my gift. By the time I got to 18, I was so grateful that it didn't happen. It's almost like I've been playing with house money since this has been a really new revelation for me that I've been thinking through. So, I think that I think as I got older and even as a kid, I just knew that I had talent. As a kid, I knew I was talented. I knew I could make people like me.

I knew people naturally like me, so I didn't even have to try to make them like me, even if I did. I knew that I cared about people. I knew I was good at stuff like hand eye coordination. I I always focused on positives. Like, I was good at hand eye coordination, but I wasn't big and strong, but I was like, I'm great at hand eye coordination. Not crying about not being big and strong, but being like, I have better hand eye coordination. Like, I always focused on the positive. It was ingrained in me. I

was parented that way. I think my mom has a huge impact on who I am to the I give her pretty much all the flowers. It's why it's easy for me to talk about myself. I don't think on the record I don't think I every time you're like Gary V, you're the best. I'm like Tamara and Sasha are the best. They're the best. They made me. I'm the product. V friends when I build it, I'll take those accolades. I built it, you know. But me it's it so yeah I think I it's so deep bro.

I think like whatever the monks and the Buddhists and like the deepest on anything you know like athletes like how do you move like that? They've been doing it their whole I've been grateful my whole life. It's interesting that it's the gratitude. One thing that's really admiraable admirable about you is your ability to be so productive and work so hard. I'm curious for those that want to be successful. What's something that they should be willing to sacrifice that they don't sacrifice? Um, you know, the cliche answers people think the answers go into like time with

your friends and family. It's real. But that's not kind of like what naturally I felt when you said that. I think I'm going to say something interesting. I think if you're in your perfect pocket, you're not sacrificing. I actually think you're being selfish. I think what people need to do is find their selfish place. What about for people though who want a balance in addition to let's say financial success? It depends on what financial success is and what balance is. This is like why these are important combos. Like real talk. Yeah. What's financial success? Do

you right this minute? What do you personally believe financial successes to the average man and woman? How much do they make in a year? I would say for the average person probably got to be about 250 grand a year. And that would be enough to What do What do you think yours is for you right now at this point in your life at this point? Gosh, I think it's an everlasting treadmill. I don't. Of course it is. That's why I'm notic I'm asking you the question. For you personally, right this minute, what is financial success

in a year? A dollar amount. Yes. Right now, at this point in your like right this second, doesn't want to say this cuz I feel like he'll get screwed. By the way, by the way, by the way, before by way that's fair and I want I want everybody to hear this. Whatever you say, it's not too big or too small. This is where we need to give grace to each other. All of us. It's just your subjective feelings at this moment. Sure. There's nothing. If he says 14 million, what's going to happen in the comments?

Like he's a piece of cuz like the average American that's not fair to him. That's where he's at right now. By the way, let me give you all the preview. He will go up and down even though he has the capacity to make more. Things change. I'm just asking you in this moment eventually. It' be awesome. 10 million. Great. So to me, here's the question. Yeah. Next, what do you think the work life balance is on for you balance on 10 million a year? It would probably be a constant 24hour a day, 7-day a week

thought struggle for me to just focus on one thing and do that non-stop. Do you want to do that? No. Okay, that's it. like this what when you start breaking down these questions like when you say 10 to me the next question is like why not 15 it just seems like an even round number I appreciate it I think that's right the other question becomes like what is balance like you're married yes are you right let's just go there that's worked out super well for me shit's different you remember not being married easier to put

more into work sure real then child then parent sick then parent not sick, then burnt out after a while of something and just like it's not as fun as it was for 6 years. Like when I did Wine Library TV every day for 5 days a week, I loved it all the way until I didn't like it at all. You guys like this right now? I love it. Love it. I'll tell you there's going to be a day where you don't. For real. That's okay. Sure. That's just human. So, you know, to answer your question,

brother, like, you know, how does one balance it? by being the judge and jury of themselves. Like whose standard of work life balance am I supposed to achieve to or you or you? Whose definition of financial success am I supposed to what is it? Is it your 250k for the average or is it the American average of 60 70 80k? 250k makes a lot of sense in San Francisco and New York and LA. 250k in rural middle of nowhere Tennessee. You're drillionaire. What does your current work life balance look like? My normal Monday to Friday

is 8:30 to 10 p.m. That's my normal. Now, there's times when my son has basketball practice and 7:30 I'll go into that world or Knicks are in the playoffs right now. I'll go to a Knicks game. But my normal right now is probably 9 to nine somewhere in the range of 12 hours a day. And when was the last time you felt burnt out? And how did you overcome that? I define subjectively burnt out as sustained unhappiness doing the thing. And my definition of sustained is probably a 100 days in a row. I've not had

that. The here here are my moments of change. In my late 20s or early 30s, I had spent working 150 hours a week building a huge business for my father and was getting paid nothing. In my late from 22 to 28, 6 years straight, 365 days a year. In my late 20s, I started to feel anxiety that I was in a bad spot because I had no money and I was built a huge business and I had nothing to show for it. I was just getting married at the time and I was like, "Oh my

god, I'm poor. I was making $50,000 a year. So, and not that 50,000 is poor, but 50,000 when you actually work 150 hours a week is real bad. You know, it's different if you're working 40 hours. Unless you're getting the bowling team and the weekends and your kids, right? You wage your hour. Exactly. So, I was in a real tough spot. Um that went from like 28 to like 30 to a really interesting time for me and my dad. We had a lot of friction. I was reconciling my feelings. he was reckless selling his and

it finally hit an inflection point where I was like I got to leave this business and start my own thing and my brother was graduating college. I started this Spanner Media. So, uh I would say the last time I really felt burnt out macro was the last years of wine library because I felt like the trade wasn't fair and I don't blame my dad actually. It's immigrant business. He's like you're going to inherit it. It's going to be yours. So, it was like all those immigrant you know. The other time I felt burnt out was

with Wine Library TV. The last 50 episodes I was like, I'm done with this. I've done this. It's five days a week, five years, I'm done. Um, Daily V put me on the map in a lot of ways for a lot of people. That's what I remember. You know, even now when the guys want to film me, I'm like so used to not being filmed, it feels weird. Whereas for the first year after Daily V, it felt weird to not be filmed. There's that. Um, so projects feel like burnt out, but they're I don't feel

burnt out. I don't feel like soulless or sad. It sounds like though you feel burnt out when you when you've accomplished everything that you've set out for. And I'll be honest with you, I really don't view it as burnt out. I view it as like ready to move on. Okay. I think words have gotten weird. Like I think a lot of people use the like weaponize the word anxiety when they're inconvenienced. I think we've created words like imposttor syndrome to make the word insecure or ick. So I really genuinely do not associate with burnout. I

think there's been moments where I was done. Sure. To your point. And I but I don't like burnout to me seems like an em I define burnout as emotionally struggling. Yeah. I like how you break down what a word actually means. It reminds me of like Jordan Peterson or it reminds me of like Alex Hormosi. You know who that is? Had him on the podcast recently. He said that he doesn't like to use words like burnout because he prefers to use words in observable reality. And that's what you did. You broke down burnout to be

like I consider it as sustained, you know, displeasure with something for a 100 days. I think words I think that's interesting insight. I think words have been weaponized. Words have been it's too ambiguous. It's subjective. But if you break it down into something that's observable, then it actually is related. Speaking of words, uh, a popular one lately is quiet quitting. Yeah. Do you feel like this is a a way for people to support a healthy boundary or is it something that people use as an excuse for just both? Not working hard. Yeah, both. Or just

like cheating the system. Like people will cheat the system if they can if they don't respect or like the system. Like I don't worry about people Veayner that way because I think we like them too much and do the right things and I know people do but it's not a sustained issue for us but I think another company that doesn't give a about their employees have it at scale because what you put in is what you get out. So do you think it's a problem with the employer in those situations not the employee? I do.

I'm going to say it again. We have 2,000 plus employees here at Vayner X. There are definitely dozens and dozens that are doing all sorts of that I would not be happy about because we no longer work in a fiveday like you can like right but I'm not crippled by it because it's inconceivable that it's at scale cuz we're too productive as an organization and I just know what we do for our employees which is we're not Mother Teresa but we like we have we have humanity. I think I think if corporations had more humanity

they would win. What's a way that you would recommend they incentivize their employees to work harder? by reverse engineering them individually. Some employees want more money. Sure. Some people want a new title. Some people want more work life balance. Some people want to work in a different department. We're in constant I. And I don't like saying I, but I'm going to say cuz I dictate this from the top. I more than even my direct reports and their direct reports. And now, as I keep putting more pressure on this, we do a pretty darn good job

of being open for business for the other person because the more we make it awesome, the more they'll stay. The more retention I have, the faster I think we can go. I think business is like sports. I think speed matters. And how do you do that at scale with so many employees? Effort, effort. Like it's just something I give a about. And for people, you know, like like you know, you'll find this so interesting. It's it's an interest. The reason I'm double clicking is I want to bring value to the audience and I felt I

left it kind of high. But but I'll tell you why I left it high and why I'm going to go low now. If you care about something, you will do it the end. Like the actual answer to your question is effort. Sure. Underneath that allocating time in my schedule for one-on ones. Uh using the people that have been here for a decade and deploying them on places I can't get to that I know needs humans. You know what I mean? Mhm. Like it takes up my mind time. Uh this may actually this is really cool.

You'll find this interesting because of what you guys do and I I have a sense of how you're paying attention. Both of you know I've been less Gary beat out the last 12 to 18 months in the personal brand game. There's other people that have po like I've been operating. Mhm. This is actually me now deciding I'm going back into effort of Gary Vee. So I guarantee people will feel me around more and know more of me and feel like Gary Ve's everywhere more in 26 than in 24 and 25 because in 24 and 25

I operated Vayner XMB friends effort. Yeah. What do you think about potential overexposure? Does that ever bother you in terms I think it depends. I think if if you have a story and you go on 30 podcasts, generally speaking, each performance of, you know, each unique podcast will start to dwindle because the story gets redundant. People have heard it enough times. You're you're looking at it from the wrong angle. You're in the game of knowing what the going on right now. To you, it'll become redundant, right? But to the the guest on the show, it's

still new eyeballs. Not the overlaps are there. And by the way, here's how it's going to play out. Okay, by the way, back to me. I'm gonna be out and about. Okay, Gary Vee showing up on all the same. Let me hear. I haven't heard. Ironically, some people like I haven't heard. He's probably talk about the same, but let me say, oh, some new then they go and listen the sec week later I'm on something else. They're like, let me listen again. Uh, pretty similar to what he just did with coffee, you know, like. And

then the third time I show up in the results of like the new podcast, they're like, I'm not going to listen. They're not I'm not getting overexposed. They've gotten their fulfillment. But every one of these shows has different audiences. Not to mention, and this will resonate for you guys cuz you had a journey of consuming my content. We also like the greatest hits from our favorite artists. Like Elton John and the Rolling Stones and Billy Joel are still playing the same. But there is something to be said about people or bands or brands who only

make an appearance every now and then and it's such a big special occasion like My Chemical Romance taking 20 years off and then coming back once and that's like a big hit event. Why are we so addicted to ore? What about and you're right and people don't get overexposed that have consistent awareness and build brand. I listen, I've been one of the most prolific public figures in social media, which is the medium of dominance today. An ungodly amount of people know me. I'm stunned every time I'm outside. A much bigger group does not. It's interesting

from our perspective because I've started posting less, but the less I post now, the more views each video gets. Of course, because it's sitting there longer. Correct. But it's also a bit more special when it's like once a week or once every other week or video. You're choosing ideology. I I actually disagree with that. I think your net awareness is down. You've increased your your barrier to post a video. Like it needs to be a more pressing event. It needs to be a bigger deal. And so for that, it probably raises the average. But by

the way, you're allowed. And by the way, you may want less people to know, but be impacted deeper, but by Sure. But people are like, Gary, get more views. I'm like, no. Like, but what about your gross views for the month? Sure. So, by the way, everyone's allowed. You're allowed to be Marlon Brando and you're allowed to be Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like you, you know, like or whoever's that was the 80s of like being in every movie like m you're Kevin Hart. Yeah. You're allowed to be Kevin Hart and you're allowed to be a you know

a once in a blue moon. They're both they both work. My answer is and and but I want everyone to hear this right now. They're like, "Oh yeah, I'm more that. I'm more like you, not like Gary." But then but what about you're allowed to be both versions. By the way, I'm just living through me being less content out there, even though my less is like quite a bit. By the way, I may wake up in a year and get into the concept of one post a month and do that for a year and then

be like, "That was awesome." And be like, "That back to volume at scale." I this the restrictions we put on ourselves is fascinating to me. So like for me when I hear that I'm like that's awesome. like enjoy this chapter and you'll make decisions if like this works for you or it doesn't and you're also allowed to change your strategy. Now for people who are on that entrepreneurial journey, how do you know or how do you dictate when to push through something versus when to quit and try something different? Only God knows the amount of

people that quit a week before it was all going to turn is actually quite high in the scheme of the last 100 years. The amount of people that right now continue to do something that is based in nothing but delusion is even higher. My answer to this question is, do you like it? Sure. And how long can you hold your breath? Those were my two questions to you. If if this if we were three brothers and we're just jamming on this for real, not on a podcast, I'd be like, do you like it? How long

can you hold your breath? Sure. That's it. That's the answer to that question. It's interesting. So for this podcast, obviously for any guest we have on the show, we do copious amounts of research. And so I feel like I've listened to you for I don't even know how many tens of hours in the past, you know, couple weeks easily. But I'm curious because you seem different now than in the previous things I've seen you on. Like you seem way more introspective, way more like subjective like you've been more meta. Like do you know why? Why?

Cuz your guys energy is that I'm Chameleon. I feel like you've been on some pretty relaxed podcasts, though. Like you did one recently with a with a veteran that I saw that I felt was pretty laid-back. Yeah. I mean, you know, I would say that what I'm feeling right now while I'm doing this is I really respect your audience and I'm pushing myself to bring as much value as I can, which is what I do in every setting. Intuitively, in a relaxed podcast, sometimes I think energy is the highest value. H I'm going on my

intuition on what I think could bring the most value. And I think and I also to your point I think life is like daytoday as well. Like I'm also fresh. I don't know what podcast you're talking about and like when they came out when they were filmed but because I haven't been putting on so many podcast so often for so long lately. I do feel a little fresh and when I'm fresh it takes me down new paths too. That's interesting. I think when it comes to social media too, I think people really value authenticity. Do

you feel like now authenticity is almost becoming like a strategy where people are really like overemphasizing authenticity? I have good news. Like you can go back to interviews I did in 2007 on YouTube and that was the buzzword of 2007 social. I think authenticity's always worked. I think people try to force it all the time which is the complete opposite of it. And I think there's the way to really judge authenticity is longevity. I think the people that try to fake authenticity do not have very long place. How much is there out there that you

choose publicly not to talk about because you're pretty open about quite a few things and how do you dictate what you are public about versus what you're not? My private life is something I don't talk about. I always thought that I was too important because I kind of had a sense early on that I was going to it was going to work. Mhm. I just knew, you know, when you know. Yeah. I just knew. So I was like, let me be thoughtful about this. Like if I get like actually, this is like 2006. I'm like,

if I get actually famous, like what what is the worry about that? It's like, oh, privacy is valuable. Plus, actually by actually, you know what, that might even be that might not even be fully authentic. I am inherently private, which is wild, right? But like yeah, I mean I think talking about your passions or ideas or business that feels like public domain, but like my children or my relationships or I don't know like you know so I talk about my parents a lot because it's a framework to like stuff but it's not like I'm telling

you like what's going on in their lives or like where like I'm not in reality TV mode. So that was conscious things like politics or religion or things that are a little spicier. I don't talk about them because it's because I don't I don't I don't love to contribute from a place of opinion. I like to come from a place of observation. So if I talk about politics, my observation is that the opposite sides of every issue weaponize fear to get people into a frenzy and that's it. That's my observation. It's like uncomfortably boring. Do

you recommend other influencers keep certain parts of their lives private as well? I think people have to reverse engineer their truth, you know, like I don't I don't have real hunger for fame. If someone has intrinsic deep value and hunger for fame, giving the world your personal life is one of the clear paths. I don't really want to deploy my judgment on someone else's journey. Sure. So, no, I don't I recommend people being self-aware. What are some of the I recommend I recommend people being self-aware and I recommend I just said this earlier and I

saw you picking up on this. I also recommend people having the ability to change their mind. Like right now if you're listening right now be like yeah man I am whoring out my children too much and I'm starting to see the negatives of that. Like my four-year-old daughter was like stopped in a park by somebody the other day because I'm doing that. Well, you're allowed to change. People struggle with change like that. like this a lot of the genre of this combo right now. I want people to have the strength to change their mind cuz

that really is liberating to allow you to do a lot of What do you think holds people back from change? Is it fear? Of course. Of judgment from other human beings. Insecurity is the poison that navigates our world. What are you insecure about? In my youth, I was insecure about girls rejecting me. Like did you get rejected or something? No, because back to not doing like I didn't ask out a lot of girls in high school and college that I wanted to cuz I was fearful of the rejection in a world where like I was

like pretty charismatic and had my game together in a way like like you know as you get older especially because I became a public figure the amount of like when that first started happening the amount of girls that reach out to me like why didn't you ask me out and like and like I could be grounded in the fact that I don't think they were saying that now because this was even happening like not the Gary Vee you know now like even when the wine thing happened which meant nothing to nobody it was just like

reconnect ing like so that was a part of my life that I um that was very clear in fear. I feared most basic adolescence things. I feared to ride a bike. I didn't want to skin my knee. I feared swimming. I didn't want to drown. I feared those two things very heavily. But by compar like I was a late bloomer in a lot of ways that way. But but what are you insecure about now? Not much. Um what am I insecure about now? deep like like and this will probably go into territory of things I

don't want to share, but like let me say it this way. I I'll say it in a way that I feel comfortable because I want to answer it and not not answer it. The number one thing I probably fear now is I want to be as good of a father as I possibly can. And so that's very top of my list. Like am I achieving that? Am I scared about things that I haven't been able to get to the place where I wanted to? What do you think could hold you back from that? um uh

being able the thing that I've always struggled with historically. It it's a wild one. My greatest weakness, my kryptonite in a world where I was luck of the draw gifted with a ton of circumstances and a lot of other things and then put in a lot of work and feel very comfortable in that was I'm not canderous with people I love. Like my lack of cander, it blows people away. Like that doesn't make sense. I'll explain. I don't give a what you two think of me. I do not care what anyone who's listening cares. I

care very deeply. I care more of what Mike thinks about me than you guys and anybody listening. And he's an young employee in my life. And I care more about what Kalin, who's worked here for 13 years, feels than Mike. But you start getting into my children and my parents. The more I love you, the more I care about how you feel. And I was raised by a mother who was not canderous, who had such gift of gab and charisma and personality too that she could just get to the result without making conflict. Got it.

I also was raised by a father who was ridiculous with conflict and looked for conflict at every point. So, I had two very opposite parents and I was formed in a way where I viewed cander as creating fear for someone cuz I've always had leverage. For most of my life, I have been the financial and emotional leader of my life, meaning me and everybody around me. So, when you have leverage and you're deploying cander, there's a lot that comes with that. When you're telling an employee that, bro, you're not good at your job, my brain

goes into Mike walks out of here and starts to go to LinkedIn, starts to cry, starts to go do drugs, and I'm going to lose my job. I just created fear. I had to have a very tough chapter in my life about 5 to seven years ago when I realized this was my kryptonite. And what I was actually doing was creating fear because people would have to get fired when you're running a company. And what people started to understand was they didn't know where they stood with me. And that became the ultimate fear. Very humbling

moment in my mid-40s. And how did you navigate that? And how do you break into just being open and honest with people without creating fear? All of our vulnerabilities are things we can't see. I'm really fortunate with self-awareness and paying attention, but I couldn't see the cander thing. Once it became obvious to me both with my employees and some of my personal relationships, I was like, "Oh," and I'm talking like looking myself in the mirror, brushing my teeth, and looking at my eyes and being like, "Dude, my inner dialogue is really cool." Like me and

me are good. You know, I really just went there. I was like, "Dude, you suck at this, man. Like, and this is going to ruin your life." Was there a specific moment that was like a combination, you know, not to go too far, but it was a combination of things going on at work, which I'm comfortable with, which was I love my employees super heavy. There was just enough employees and I knew why they were mad at me that were running around the world being like all I care about is anyone who knows me to

think I'm a decent man. Having employees that were running around the world being like Gary B was like this is wrong. The only ones that were saying Gary Vee were people that were consistently underperforming, but I didn't have the ability to overcommunicate it and then would pull the rug from underneath them. It was black and white. Yeah. On my subjective opinion. Maybe they were performing and I was wrong, but that's, you know, that's the judge in the jury when you own a business, right? Yeah. I was like, that sucks. I got to fix that. And

then things in my personal life which I'm less comfortable sharing. But ultimately, I was like, look, I've got to fix this. And it's hard, bro. Like, you're in pretty good shape. I don't know if you've always been or not. I'm in better shape than I've been historically. Like like it's work. Yeah. Like I was in Toronto for a board meeting last night. I landed last night at midnight. I was in the gym at 6:00 a.m. this morning in the gym. I landed at midnight. You have to put in the work to be able to be

better. And so I had to and I continue to practice cander right now and I'm still a 5 out of 10. But that jump from 1 to five has closed a lot of wounds and vulnerabilities. Who do you go to for advice? The truth is no one, which is a great gift and a great weakness. What I do when I'm in a place of thought is go into more of a cocoon. I'm actually talking and advising and jamming. Like if we were like if we hung out, if we like each other, we'd have dinner. We'd

have these kind of dinners. Different because we were a podcast, but it would be this. I'm always thinking and philosophy and strategizing and vulnerable and like I'm living and I'm taking it like it's almost like advice is happening all the time. But when it's in the moment that you're asking where I'm like really thinking through something I weirdly do the reverse. I think most people don't advice every day and then when they have a problem go for advice. I'm the reverse. I'm like constantly like advising, but then when something's really important, I go into a

cocoon and I'm in my own and I think it through. How do people improve self-awareness? It seems like, like you were saying, the ability to be dynamic and change your opinion, change your mind, change your beliefs is one of the best ways that you can improve your overall life. I think self is self-awareness is required for that. I think therapy is good. I think going to therapy and having another human being who's professionally trained try to throw some things at you really is good. I think what I've done is I think hum I think there's

a very big relationship between humility and self-awareness. So I have a very big thesis that humans are not trickable and then I have another thesis that humans are the most trickable. So let me break it down. My belief is that 99% of people are uncomfortably trickable. And that's how the world works. What do you mean? I think most people are so insecure, so short-term, so selfish that if you just feed them what they need that you can basically manipulate them into anything you want to do. It's what politics does. It's what businesses do. It's like

what life is. I hate that. What I like is trying to win with the 1% that are the reverse. And those people are completely the reverse. They're completely not trickable. And I think when you understand that what I just said or if you believe it and whether my percentages are right, maybe it's 8020, but like the concept that the masses are in this one place and and then there's a different group of people that you actually want to be friends with that you actually want to know that it's the actual thing. Mhm. That if you

think that you'll constantly be in a place of humility and self, you know, analyzation and you you're humble, you're listening, and I think there's something there in a real way to what you're asking. I think surrounding yourself with the right type of people has the potential to create a lot of self-awareness. And what would be the main qualities of someone who is trickable versus non-tickable? Like, is it an intelligence thing? I believe it's a security thing. I think it's confidence versus insecurity. I I have come to I I turned 50 in November. Fun number, you

know, like how old are you guys? 26. I'm 35. Yeah. Like even at you know, you're a straight baby, but even at 35, right? At 35, you know, back to like my life, you think about 10 mill like I I think this will be very exciting for you and I hope it's very exciting more importantly to the audience. At 34, I made $67,000 for the year. Yeah, that's why I believe it. That's why you hear so much Gary B about be patient. What did you make at 35? 35 was when I started doing this and

I just signed a book deal. So I got 100K for Crush It. I made like probably 240. Do you think that you needed to have the actual accolades to play off of that confidence or did the confidence exist from the beginning to the end? Beginning to the end. DNA parenting circumstance. You never questioned your aptitude. You never business. No. Like I said earlier, what's what's a child's childhood? Does the opposite sex like you? That was a third of my whole life. So, I had plenty of insecurity there. Uh sports, right? I was good early on

cuz I had crazy hand eye coordination. I got worse as we got into middle school cuz speed, height, power, strength mattered. So, that was off. School big one, right? Kids self-esteem in school, right? Good grades, smart, bad grades, dumb. Especially if you're almost 50. You grew up in a different world. I'm 25 years ahead of you that way. 24 three years ahead of you. Like teachers told me I was an idiot. That I was going to be a loser. Like these are grown-ups telling you to your face you're going to be a loser. So I

had plenty of things that could be insecurities. I just had the most important things right. One, I had a mother who parented me in a way that made me believe in myself. But she didn't do what modern parents are doing, which is create a delusion. She said, "You're a good dude. You're good at you're you've got strengths." But when I had shortcomings, I had ramifications. I had consequences. How do you try to instill those same qualities in your children? By doing that, by telling them the truth, by by cheering for things that are good, like

are they nice people? Are they not entitled? But I can't do one of the most important parts, environment. I did grow up in lower middle class neighborhoods in Jersey. They are growing up very wealthy. How do you think that's going to change their perspective or the fear that they can't live up to what you've accomplished? That part I feel good about because I create almost no they they may have their own version but I one of the great mistakes a parent that is successful makes is ask their child to live up to their I do

not have the problem is there's too many people that are successful that are actually insecure. So then they ask their children to do things because they care what other people think about their children's accomplishments. On the record on this podcast, I do not give a about what people think about what my children do for a living. So my children will have the luxury of not having a father that wants them to do what? Live up to my legacy. Me. I'm their dad. I just want them to be happy the way I'm happy. And whether they're

entrepreneurs like me and what makes them happy is to build masleto. If they if what makes them happy is to give away all the money I made because that somehow makes them feel better for being rich kids and that's what they see the world as. As long as they're happy, not that that's some sort of poisonous up thing. Like I just am very focused on do they enjoy their life? Are they productive? But like environment can't be fake. How close is happiness linked to being productive? Because we had Grant Cardone on about a year ago

and with his daughter in the room, he said he doesn't want her to be happy. He wants her to be productive and if she's productive by default she's going to be happy. Yeah. I look I think every parent is allowed to see the world how they want. I'm also a buyer of productivity but productive is defined by different metrics. What is productive? Is productive making a million dollars a year? 10 100? Is productivity knowing that you were born into luxury and thus you give your life's work to give back to humanity? and everything in between.

I don't know. But yes, I do not think waking up in the morning and having nothing to do leads to anything but bad. Right. But what one defines as productive I think is different for every human. Yeah. For example, I have a lot of ways to maximize for a lot more wealth than I have. That's just not where I'm at. I feel like I'm being more productive by leaving good deposits, by spending a lot of time on Gary Vee. Mhm. And now V friends, my Pokemon Sesame Street thing, feels like I'm going to be able

to do both. I can be selfish and selfless. I can build one of the biggest intellectual properties of all time, which is very, very valuable. But I also can get these characters so popular that I can start getting to kids younger and instilling good virtues into them. What's what's more productive? Yeah. My my my income statement this year or the impact I made on alpha dudes not being complete dick faces? What's more productive? uh how much money I made or the fact that I've gained muscle mass and that injury I got at my dad's liquor

store with my left glute now that I've been able to actually get my mind muscle right and I'm fixing it and I have better life quality which who decides productivity. Yeah. If you make $43 million a year, but your human behaviors of alcohol and eating and gluttony and all this stuff leads to you dying two years later, were you productive in the 43rd year where you made all that money or or because you're not productive at 45 cuz you're dead. So I think the definition of but I agree with the macro thesis. I do believe

in productivity. I think who gets to define productivity? My answer is you get to define it and then you get to change your mind. Yep. If you want to go from 20 to 30 and eat Doritos all day and build an empire, good. And then 30 to 40 is pure love and enjoying those. Knock yourself out. But don't do it for someone else. And don't do it for the cheering. Because if you're doing it for the cheering when they're booing, you're dead. What do you think are the main things that are holding people back right

now? And if they could make these adaptations, they'd be able to unlock their full potential. You seem like a very Oh, I have a very good thought on this. Sure. Number one, two, three, four, and five, is the utter lack of accountability. What's going on right now, brother, has nothing to do with anything other than we've been over coddled for 30 years. The end. You can do anything once you decide it's your fault. If you think it's your mommy and daddy's fault, that's what takes up the oxygen. You just spend all your time telling everybody

about your mommy and daddy. If you think it's Trump or Biden or Putin or China, that's what you spend your time talking about. Everybody has become remarkable at pointing fingers. It has become a global pandemic. Why is that? Over overcodling, lack of accountability. Where do you think that started? Overcorrection to a lot of parents that got underloved and overcorrected too far and we lost our way. So, you think the pendulum is swinging back to accountability? No, that is my great hope. Okay. I No, I do not feel like we're there right now. Unfortunately, I feel

like we're still in the very heavy midst of I mean, we have find so many things to blame on. Do you know that nobody Do you know that I didn't even know I was in Gen X my whole life? We didn't talk about generations. Like, do you have many hours Gen Z talks about boomers? It's become a meme now, though. It's we're just so Is that creating just cages for ourselves thinking that we have to subscribe to a certain thing? Of course. But most of all, the ultimate cage is when you think somebody else is

in control of your life, you're dead. But you know what? But people get rewarded for that online. And I feel like that's a a slippery slope because when people post about themselves being a victim, they get so much support and so much sympathy online. It feels good to post something. You've you've Yes. ish. You've lived through these last three years. The pendulum is swinging. They also get a ton of hate. I feel like it's it's not balanced though in terms of the hate to love. I feel like it's getting balanced. I feel like you're right

3 4 years ago. But I think changing I think it depends on the person in their audience. Like mostly like if you have like a girl that's crying like a on a camera and her audience is like 95% women like all of the comments. But if it's a guy that's like opening up about something, I get it. But let's talk about this. That goes back to the point of how we got here. That girl didn't wake up at 23 looking for unlimited sympathy. She's yearning for how she was parented. She wants to be coddled. That

guy wants to be coddled. We want to blame his fault. Your fault. That fault. This fault. That generation's fault. That politician's fault. That government's fault. [ __ ] California. New York. Trump. Biden. Florida. Texas. Her. Like everybody. Like where's this? But real quick, where is this? When somebody's upset today. Where is I suck? And that's not the same as I suck. Let's go into depression. I'm talking about I'm accountable and capable. I don't like America. I can move to Costa Rica. I don't like my boss. I can quit. Oh, but Gary, I have a mortgage.

Get out of it. Like, we you can do you know that, right? But that's also purposely and consciously subscribing to mild delusion because there are certain things that happen to certain people that is not that is not their fault. Is it important by the way people somebody just died of a stroke. It's not his fault that No. So it's important to delineate what I'm trying to get at between fault and responsibility. No. No. I don't care about the semantics to your point. Fair. But let's go to where I'm trying to go which is okay. something

happened to you. Uh you don't have a lot of money saved up. A rock bounced on the highway and smattered your uh windshield and now you have to fix it. That what what you know I guess you could say I should have left my house earlier or later and the rock wouldn't be there. It's not the that's not not the ridiculousness I'm looking forward to it. I'm asking like what do you do about it now? Like you everything is about what you do about it. Could that person go on Craigslist and pick up on the

free listings and sell it at the flea market this Saturday and make 320 bucks? They could. They could. They don't have to. Could that person ring the doorbell of his neighbor and say, "Hey, you're you've always talked about my garden being awesome, your garden. I'd like to do your garden for the next four months, but I want 300 bucks for it because my windshield just broke. Would you like to do that deal?" They they could like like happens all the time. how you react to [ __ ] All that life is all life is is

happening all the time. There is nothing else. The only thing that happens in life is happening all the time. What I'm interested in is what do you do about it? Is your life perfect? I think I have a pretty good life. Guess what? Bad news. Something's going to happen. That's life. You're not going to be the one that goes through life without pain or struggle or micro issues. When you answer like that, here's where I go. That's awesome. That made my heart smile. Now, what I want to say to you if you were my younger

brother is, bro, do not complain one day if that's your truth. Not one complaint out of your mouth. Cuz in the macro, so good. You're one of the few people on earth that gets to say that. Two, be mentally prepared. And let's start thinking about that for when it doesn't. Because a lot of people that are only accustomed to being good or get addicted to being good when they get caught with bad don't have the backbone to take the punch in the face and that's when the starts to get bad. Right? Th those are the

things I like to start thinking about. So, if you could say one thing that would make the biggest splash to the people listening right now that think that they don't have control over their own life or that they have found themselves disagreeing or subconsciously they're disagreeing, they just don't consciously know it. What could you say to make the biggest splash, the biggest impact to wake them up? There's so many different places I go. One, a part of me goes into a really deep tough love place of like, cool you. I don't give a like what

do you want from me? Like I'm desperately trying to tell you in life you find what you're looking for. And if you're looking for good, it's good. And if you're looking for bad, it's bad. And what what do you want? What do you want from me? I'm human sitting over here. Like I don't need to convince you. You want to have a life, you have a life. There's that part. Then there's the compassionate part which is like, bro, please like you have one life. The math around having a life is 400 trillion to one. You

won already. You actually won. No matter how alcoholic abusive father, sexual abuse, like like where do you want to go? Third world country. Like where do you want to go? You still can actually like you still have a shot. You you could have not been born. Like you have a shot. Like you have a shot. You know the sports fan. How many times do you want to watch a game? Look at what the Pacers did to the Bucks the other game was over but it wasn't. Like you could suck in life. You could be 53

right now and be a loser and dominate from 60 to 80. Enjoy it. You could like it's never over. Like I don't know. There's a lot of versions to your question. I don't know which one's going to work for someone. That's why I use them all. I've got nothing but compassion to hard. Like I'm trying I'm throwing out why do you think I make so much content? I'm desperate out here to make everybody understand. Please for the love of God cuz deep down what do you want from all of us? I don't judge you but

I can't change you either. Yeah, that was that felt good. I've never said that. That's me. I don't judge you. I really don't. Cuz I know people have different circumstances. Luck of the draw, all that stuff. But I can't change you. You have to change you. You're way more impressive than I And I'm not just saying that to like I'm not just saying that. And I don't say that usually like almost ever on the podcast. But I had high expectations. And first of all, this entire unit, whatever you call this floor is incredible. But also,

you're way like sharper and just maybe it's because you took that break, but I don't know. I don't think so. I think I think we talk about this a lot. Like I sandbag it a little bit publicly in in hindsight. Like I what am I going to say? I'm smart. I'm sharp. Like that I'm obsessed with value for the audience. But to your point like this is nothing. You should like you live here for a month. You like holy like I'm I'm Don't forget I did it and then talked about it and continue to do

it. So thank you for that. That means a lot to me. Um, and again, the reason I like dealing with my compliments is again that just my mom's 70th birthday is this weekend. Like, I can't wait to tell her what you just said cuz it's going to make her happy cuz I'm her product. Well, shout out Gary's mom. Yeah. Tomorrow. Okay. So, we got some rapid fire questions. What's something you hate that everyone else seems to love? This could be anything. Complaining. Okay, that's a good dialed answer. If you could have a 30-minute conversation with

any entrepreneur from history, who would you pick? That's a great question. Um, who would I pick? I would pick Walt Disney. You get 10 million taxree today, but you can't invest it or use it for business. You just have to spend it on fund. What do you buy? Um, no, no, it's cool. I love that question. Uh, 10 million for fun or do I would probably courtside NBA like real like sports is going to be way up there. I do like restaurants so I'd probably like and wine so I'd probably go super hardcore on it's

less about going to like travel. It would be travel for purpose around food. So I would say very ridiculous meals fun. I mean, I would give away. I would love the feeling of giving away loads of cash at scale in like fun environments. Not like the stuff we see like the influencers do. More like I would go to like Peru and give somebody really like $30,000 where that's like 4 trillion. So, some of that stuff would be really enjoyable with the cash. Okay. What's one guilty pleasure you have that would surprise people? That would s

most of my silly stuff I've shared a lot. guilty pleasures. People surprise would I'm not a very big guilty pleasure person. Like I have a incred like it's funny my fiance Mona is such a clean eater but I think people know that I'm like willing to like eat 13 Snickers bars if I have to whatchamacallits I'm obsessed with uh I got one but it's not a surprise which is why I'm probably say but I'm obsessed with cereal but weird ones like I'm huge on Captain Crunch. Captain Crunch is the best. Mr. Beast should have a

cereal. Captain Crunch is the best. The other favorite cereal I have is grape nuts, which is completely different. I've heard of that. Yeah, look, check it out. Would you rather own the New York Jets but never see them win a Super Bowl or see them win a Super Bowl but never and and not even close, by the way. Chasing the Jets is my great love. Actually, owning them. I'm neutral about winning a Super Bowl is everything to me. Winning and not owning. Why do you do this? Because my mom knitted me a jersey, a Jets

jersey when we were really poor with the number five on it. when all my friends in the neighborhood had a jersey and I asked for one, but we she we couldn't buy one because we didn't have that kind of money. 25 bucks on a jersey was not in the cards. So, at night while we were sleeping, my mom knitted me a jersey. Um it's a pinned Instagram that I have. Um that uh if you go to my Instagram, it's pinned to the top why I want to actually buy the Jets. Has a lot to do

with why I want to buy them. And every time I take a photo, I just want to pay an homage to my mom. Cool. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. [Music]