Joe Rogan Experience #2222 - John Fetterman

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day all right man we rollan what's happening nice to meet you oh hey man it's so it's awesome to be here man really yeah like I got to say hi to my my son is just so thrilled he's like you know he's 15 and he literally freaked out D like oh my God it all and all of his friends are going to definitely be watching too yeah what's his name Carl with a K and I I met

a I met a Carl in the lobby but uh it's a c but uh that's a not a human a non-human Carl yeah well what's up human Carl yeah um so first of all are you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits when you're a senator uh yeah no it's it's uh I'm sorry what was that say I said are you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits as a senator oh okay yeah no I well I I know it might it seems strange

but it's like uh I mean I'm a I'm a I'm a bigger guy and and I don't really can't afford custom anyway and I hate I'm claustrophobic and I hate them being in that kind of and uh I've always dressed like like and you know and and I know and and then that whole thing kind of got away uh of hus um people assumed that there was a dress code issue there yeah and I'm like no I wasn't behind that behind that but of course everybody pointed at the at the dude that dresses like a

slob and and and then the whole the whole nation just had like a meltdown like oh my God the Senate's on fire because uh I dress like a slob uh but but my life is just much better in DC that unless that I'm going to be on the floor that I'm not going to be you're never going to see me in a suit and uh I think that's a more authentic kind of way that I live and I don't judge anybody on how they dress or those things uh I I just dress this way and

there's also practical issues as well too like I have I have Chopstick legs and I have no ass and I can't keep pants up and and hoodies and hoodies it's like I don't have to iron that you know so it it's just like easy it's comfort and it's like I just feel like that's I mean and if somebody judge me and people have said that uh but it's like I'd rather have somebody know and I I promise you a lot of people and dudes especially in Western Pennsylvania love to wear suits all year I mean

uh excuse me shorts all year uh and dressed like that but to me it's about comfort and practical well I mean it makes sense the the whole dress code thing of wearing suits and you're you're more serious because you have certain clothing on it seems pretty silly sorry what's that are you so let's let's tell everybody what's going on with your iPad so because you had a stroke you have difficulty do you have difficulty hearing or well no I can hear just I can hear just perfectly right now uh and uh but uh there's just

the one kind of a lingering issue there's a lingering issue um and sometimes I lose just a couple steps on time and then now after that that's the only thing and thankfully the stroke never touched my intellect things uh uh but the but the stroke nearly killed me and again I don't uh but I use captioning in situations just like this uh in interviews that's so that's why I can I can really make sure exactly what's being said uh then I can able just participate if somebody wears the glasses it doesn't mean that they're illiterate

it just means they just that's a tool that allows them to participate or drive or those things and it's that same thing and a lot of people across America use captioning to watch movies and TV and that's really no different than that so it doesn't affect your intellect but it does affect your hearing is that what's going on uh no I I can hear and I can listen to music the difference with music for example is is that as long as there's muscle memory I I can I can remember all those kinds of music things

but it seems unlikely at this point that it's uh they not going to be any kind of new new favorites emerging like that because so you essentially only can listen to the same old music forever yeah no it's yeah it's yeah I I mean uh all of the all the classics like you know Metallica Motorhead motohead uh the cult all those kinds of things like I haven't lost any of you know the deaf DEA LEP and those things well and I I saw the the uh the record of whiter excuse me White Snake um but

all those things yeah I know I mean I mean I I think we're both in the 50s right and you know we grew up with with the with the crew and and all those kinds of things so um some some people might Judge Me based on my my taste on music but I mean uh that's that's kind of where it's listen people are going to judge you no matter what you're a big giant guy wears hoodies and you're a senator like so like no matter what they're going to judge you who cares but I'm just

trying to like understand like what what is going on with the captioning because you you can hear but so there's some sort of a disconnect between hearing and understanding like what is it yeah I wouldn't say it's necessarily disconnect it's just it's it's just about being precise on that just to make sure that so if you know like for an interview just to make make sure those things uh so it's really just about captioning uh just really it's just a tool difference I mean for this this is like my my eyes uh in the sense

for glasses that just understand so it just gives you a little bit more Precision in what you're saying yeah and understanding what what was it like running for Senator right after recovering from a stroke that had to be a nightmare yeah I I don't recommend that I I I I don't recommend that cuz you seem to have recovered quite a bit since then oh yeah no during that time you were really struggling and oh sure AB absolutely like uh it was uh it was a it was a rough uh conversation after that um uh they

they brought me into the hospital and then I I went under and then I I woke up uh and they said they uh they said hey we got it we got it we got the clot the the clot that that essentially just but killed me and I'm like oh that's good uh and then just kind of went back under and uh at that point I had no idea where we were at on those things uh and then I had um the next morning I woke up and then they uh a doctor came on and he

had kind of a a grim kind of a look on his face and things and my dad was there sitting next to me at the bed and I was like well hey Doc I mean what's uh what things what do you think what do you like uh and he's like well um you know your your your heart is functioning at an incredibly low kinds of percentage um and uh and I'm like well um uh well what do you what do you think and and he was like well uh you know I mean there's some ISS

issues and I'm like well are we talking you know may a year a year kind of thing and and like uh and I'm like um and this is all while you were running for Senate uh yeah yeah this was this was after this was after this was after this was uh 3 days before the primary oh my God yeah I was on my I was on my way to an event and and my wife Jazelle she she's like you're you're having a stroke because uh they had that classic kinds of uh where you know half

of my face I didn't know that but it kind of just you just slumped yeah and and and then they hotlin me over to the hospital and I wouldn't I wouldn't have survived if we were in a different I mean there's parts of Pennsylvania and that's a that's part of the tragic that uh if I wasn't close to the the kinds of hospital that I was uh it's 100% that I wouldn't have survived that wow and it got me there in enough time and they were able to there was an expert there and and I

I actually had I I met that doctor that's that literally saved my life uh and I'm like oh my God uh and he usually wasn't based in that hospital he was usually out of Delaware but he happened to be there and and that uh and he was here to to give me an an award for you know you know being that kind of a an advocate for those things I'm like no the you you deserve you deserve the award on that and and uh that's incredibly lucky yeah and and then um and then I I

asked uh really looking for like a countdown of like well what's the prognosis and and I really there wasn't much there on that and I had to like uh was I going to sur survive for long or you know what's that going to look and then of course um the entire majority on the Senate really was on the middle of that and that's a big responsibility after that and then uh so the the primary it happened and I actually had a a very strong win and I won all of 67 counties uh Pennsylvania had 67

counties and we carried every County pH Philadelphia Pittsburgh and all across Pennsylvania uh but at that point I had a responsibility it's like am I able to recover or where kind of when I'm am I going to be okay and I wouldn't recommend being in that in that situation but I I made a commitment uh more than anything I was more worried about being being around to be a dad I mean I have three I have three young kids and my my wife you know she lived through all of this so at that at that

point um it it started I was in the hospital for about 10 days and yeah and I start to get better and better that the strength started to come back a little bit but I it was still rough and it was very very clear though that I had a capacity to it's been impaired on on hearing and those kinds of interaction and those things uh so but but but that's the thing but but I had to decide de Side by August 15th and that's actually that's my birthday ironically that uh if I I step down

uh by then or before then they're going to have to find somebody to replace me on the primary and that was going to be my drop uh my Dropout day on that so what was the operation how did they do it how did they remove the clot uh uh well it it's uh I it's I mean I had to originally I had to go back to I have to learn how to how to talk and speak you know I went to a speech therapist and have interaction and those kinds of things uh and my hearing

and those kinds of things were still impacted by that and they had to monitor my heart because it was it effectively stopped I found out after the fact that it actually stopped and then uh that my heart had to recover so there was two kinds of things working there you know my my heart and then right before the primary they walked in and they said Well here here's what I suggest here's what I suggest now we are going to put a pacemaker we're going to put in a pacemaker and uh and we're like hey that's

that's the best thing so they they put that device right here and for anyone if you're not really with that is a pacemaker but that that uh that manages your heart you know because I had a significant issue with aib and and that's really what what did that to my heart and uh they put that in and then uh that was that was um that was right before the primary and they put me under and I I uh so what year was this uh uh uh uh this was uh 22 2022 and before you had

this stroke had you ever had any issues before with clotting or anything like was this like a not with clotting not with clotting you know my I have for good re for good things and for for bad things my heart was just like my father's you know and he had an issue with apib and he was in the hospital for so it's a genetic yeah a genetic and uh uh but I didn't I it was never an idea it was never an idea that uh I was going to even having a stroke that that wasn't

part of the at least my thinking I I knew that I was in distress you know I could tell that my heart was was was was in problem and I was just going to get through this primary I mean there's a lot running on that uh and then that's that it didn't work out because the stroke hit three days before and and then that forced me uh and that put me on an incredibly different kind of a of a path after that and so where do they go in when they're removing the clot did they

have to cut your skull open like how did they get it out of there uh they went up they went up uh uh in your vein in your leg and they went up and it's just it's a remarkable technology that through your leg all the way to your brain and they just sucked it out and they they they actually had uh an x-y an x-ray or whatever and you could say hey we got it out and I actually got to see uh although I really was still kind of out of it but that was the

clot that that Alba took took my life and uh so I I mean there there were a lot things there you know suddenly your you know mortality was kind of like put right there in front of it yeah on and through that um do they have any idea what caused the clot is there they understand like what happened to you I'm always my grandmother uh had an aneurysm and uh it was horrible situation they didn't find her um for several hours uh afterwards my grandfather came home and she wasn't in the house and then he

found her in the backyard she had collapsed and they gave her 72 hours to live and she lived for 12 years like that it was horrible my grandfather had to take care of her it was it was really really rough so I'm always like really concerned with that kind of stuff like I don't like what causes it do they know yeah well it's I I I mean I had for the first time in my life and I hope it's the last time that I'm uh confronted by this idea that the the doctors weren't able to

provide any kinds of certainty or it's like oh yeah man you're going to be okay or things are going to be okay that that wasn't uh so they don't know what caused it well I mean it it was a fib and and and my heart weakened and the stress of the of the primary and on the ongoing kinds of issues uh it was already weakened about that issue earlier and everything kind of came together and my I guess my heart deteriorated to the point where that that caused uh the clot and then that the clot

that's what nearly took my took my life so then you have to go to work so now you are an elected Senator and you have to go to work in the middle of recovery yeah it's uh I I I think uh I I mean it it's it's so diff it's uh I had a significant responsibility uh uh to to to stay in that and and winning through all those things uh and that's that was uh that was difficult enough um it was an important conversation and we had to run a campaign we had to run

a campaign uh when I was it was difficult uh and I wasn't working at the kind of capacity that was necessary uh and that's uh we had to run up to the uh the 15th of August to decide if we're going to stay in that because there's a lot writing on that and you were also competing against Dr Oz which was weird you know this guy who's a celebrity Doctor Who's at least a little shady uh no it it's uh it it necessarily was the the yeah I I think uh I you know we were

talking about captioning earlier right now and I uh I I think we're having an issue with some of the the the captioning right now here is it not showing up uh yeah there I think there's a there's a little bit of a delay well maybe it's the way I said Shady yeah he's a little shady like he he had been in trouble for talking about miracle diet remedies that weren't Miracles at all and he I believe he got brought in front of Congress so it was a little odd that that guy was running for Senate

at all was he from Pennsylvania yeah well Dr Dr o yeah I I think I think from a technology I think we have to address the the cap it messing up right now yeah I I think the captioning uh the captioning is running a little bit behind on here so can we make some technological stop and have her fix it yeah okay we'll have her come fix it yeah okay we'll pause here ladies and gentlemen we'll be right back yeah I think we're I think we are I think we're good to go we yeah we

put this on the Wi-Fi so and it's it's working great all right we're back so what I was just saying that it was odd that you were running against Dr Oz and he was just kind of Dr Oz yeah I mean Dr yeah and and he's uh he used to be you know people used to thought he was like really brilliant I mean he was like he was like an amazing kind of surgeon uh celebrity and then he turned his career into like on TV and then he started to pitch more kinds of questionable kinds

of things and kind of kind of stuff uh and I I don't understand why somebody would would change uh his reputation I mean he was really revered in in that uh and I was I wouldn't even be I would have been comfortable to him operate on me uh but uh but he kind of lost that and what was also pretty funny is that he clearly he lived in New Jersey and so we were like hey we we need to use that and point out that so uh we just we decided early on that we're going

to just like hey you know it matters it's like I mean there's nothing wrong with living on New Jersey but it there probably is an issue if you're running for for the Senate so and and I really have like an ethos is that I'm uh I'm not ever going to be mean and I'm not going to be personal about that so we tried to have a lot of fun with the fact that he lives in New Jersey and we just really uh just kept hitting him hitting him and I we had snooky did like a

Cameo saying gee Mt good luck uh you know I know it's things are going rough now but you're going to be able to come back to New Jersey and and that got viral and we did a lot of those viral kinds of of moments um and you know they have this thing where they have what's really penetrated and you know they have circles on things like what what's really part of like people asking about Dr Oz and one of the zeros the O's was he's weird but the biggest one New Jersey I mean literally New

Jersey was that was the biggest one yeah like Pennsylvania new Jersey even though they're neighbors they do have a bit of a rivalry uh yeah well of course and you know people have to understand that it's like it's like that funny thing and I mean it it borders with with Pennsylvania and and that that it really matters it matters that and of course Dr Oz was uh he was strange uh in some sense and we always tried to have fun with making fun of him are you a fan are you fan of The Simpsons yeah

yeah but we we matched up perfectly with Dr Nick you know Dr Nick Dr Oz and we found all the the weird that Dr Nick would say and then they have a clip of Dr Oz saying those kinds of thing and and then and then that's that's where it was and we had a lot of fun with that and things we we all figured out well um we have we essentially we chose to kind of empty the clip uh metaphorically and really start hitting him you know we went up on TV throughout the summer and

he was really put on his back uh and he was essentially thinking he could kind of take take the the summer off and then our polling we got up about 10 11 points and and things you know if anyone's listening ever heard of the 538 you know they they track on those those races and the highest percentage we had to win was I think about 84% and things kept wining great really really uh great and then I had to decide on my birthday on August 15th and things were going so well and I thought things

I'm like okay uh then we decided to stay on that race uh and that's and that's what we did uh and then you know post Labor Day when and oh my gosh uh we just got uh we got nuked in in a way that uh it's never been uh experienced that before and then how so what do you mean oh uh a100 million of paid media to destroy you I mean just tear you apart every aspect of your life hundred million dollars they spent uh $100 million for a job that pays how much oh yeah

oh just oh it CES from from pxs from Dr us Dr us put in 20 I think $28 million how crazy is that because like what is Senate what does it pay being a senator uh you pay being a senator yeah it's it's $174,000 yeah can I talk about this I I don't understand why you know some incredibly wealthy dudes will spend tens and tens of millions of dollars just to to to take that and I I try to uh tell people there's no glamour here I just talked about that in a an interview do

you think he wanted to become president and this was like a step to being president I guess everybody wants the Iron Throne I I get but it's it's it's really uh and but it also it's a different it's a different kinds of uh skills uh and it it really doesn't transfer over very well on that but right now in in Pennsylvania right now now uh David McCormick a Connecticut man Connecticut man he's running in Pennsylvania and he lives in Connecticut and he's incredibly wealthy I think he's worth three or $400 million and he's spending the

same race in Wisconsin they're dropping crazy and and really like that's an important conversation that the real problem in American politics for me is is uh citizens uh United and unlimited money uh when when they decided that money is speech and now that turns the whole thing in an incredibly damaging uh right now there's been at least more than half a billion dollars half a billion dollars on the table in Pennsylvania just for president not not not just not just uh the Senate races and other house States and and I was the most at least

at that point was the most expensive Senate race in history and they it was over 300 uh $330 million uh for for that one seat and all of those dollars they're spent to destroy and tear you apart and then uh Fox News I was their top top Target for four months and social media and I I stayed out of that I I I didn't enjoy but uh social media all the conservative influencers everything uh and it just tore me apart and at that point at the end of September um it it was uh I mean

I I couldn't get away from it and uh it really it's like until you've had aund million to to destroy you it's it's a it's a Next Level kind of thing and then everyone was they were saying well he's a vegetable you know he's a or he's lost his his brain and all kinds of things and then that wasn't true uh but but the kinds of terrible things and those kinds of very personal things and it just got incredibly ugly uh in a way yeah that has got to be a terrible experience to to realize

that there's so much money being spent just to attack you and that you're you're a part of this very very large and corrupt machine that's going after you just because they want to control the state and it's a giant swing state of course and yeah the Senate the whole Senate the whole Senate was uh in fact uh we we actually we fli that seat and that's the first time I think in the 40s or 50s that we've had two Democratic senators in Pennsylvania usually it's been a a Dem and a Republican and now uh because

we flip that seat that's it's mathematically it's possible to to retain the majority in the Senate but it's going to be still fairly diff difficult because we have Montana very very red State obviously and and that's really what the Republicans have put a significant bet to make sure that they can flip Montana and then if Montana Falls then they're going to keep the the major or they're going to get the majority unless there's like a really surprise one but uh that it may be more kind of difficult do you think that money is the the

biggest problem in American politics this ability to spend insane amounts of money yeah I mean just imagine if you were a movie studio and you're putting out a you're you're going to put out a movie and a rival Studio has a hundred million to tell America that movie sucks you know that's and it's crazy and it's it's it's it's just there's always going to be unlimited money because it's all about the control of the senate or the house or the the presidency and when when money is is uh Speech it's going to be unlimited and

and where what what happens it's like well that's TV and on on social and it's going to be how can I destroy and break this this individual and that's where it is and it gets incredibly personal and it has it has an impact I mean that certainly it has for me and until we have unlimited money it's going to get you know more and more mean personal and expensive and if you look at the billion you know billions of dollars that's spent how what we could have done for our society the kinds of reals that

we could build and other things uh if we didn't spend all those money to tear each other apart yeah it's very strange and it sets a terrible tone for the rest of the country it because it the these races even though when they're over people go back to a certain level of Civility it's already of been established that this is on the table these personal attacks this evil vicious propaganda taking things out of context conflating people's words yeah no you you you have you know you take any a quote take it out of context clip

that put $10 million behind that and that's in front of you know millions of eyeballs right there spontaneously on that and it just it's directly right at you and there's it's it's unlimited money I mean you know when you look back on this race it's like you are going to be stunned just how much money is put in that how crazy Those ads are and just you can't get away from it like Montana Montana has I think six or 700,000 votes voters and they've dropped a quarter of a billion dollars I I don't know how

you could even spend a quarter of a billion dollarss in Montana it's like if you have $100,000 in cash you have to pay that in going to a McDonald's I don't know how they do that but I promise you everybody in Pennsylvania or in any other these kinds of contested States they just can't get away from that and at this point they just stop paying attention to it it's it just it's like it's it's noise it's toxic kinds of noise and it does it sets a tone for the whole country that we're willing to engage

in this way oh yeah no it's like that's the thing it it it turns everything into a night fce or or or worse and it it is about trying to destroy that person and to to convince other people that you are the worst thing in the world you're you're a Marxist you're a communist or you're just all kinds of things and it's it's the lowest lowest denominator and if you really want to fix American politics I mean there's there are issues but I promise you if you removed that that would be a dramatic kinds of

thing and we all have to play that game some of us like myself I I got a lot more of my money from small dollar donations like like Bernie Bernie I know he's been on the show Bernie but then other ones it's like everyone chases the bigger the bigger checks it's undeniable there too and it's so disingenuous and there's packs and there's other kinds of organizations one way or another it's just it's just the way to funnel tens of million dollars to just tear someone apart what was your background before you got into politics I

was a social I was a social worker uh and I I I came to a very u a very deeply broken and fractioned uh fractor uh community and I actually started helping young men and women get their uh geds and just kind of getting their lives back on track in that sense uh and then that's why I uh I did that for several several years and then I decided I wanted to run for mayor and mayor of a of a small of a of a small town and uh we had problems with uh inequality uh

in a community that had 90% uh of the population uh abandoned the community and left and if anyone's aware of the US steel I mean I live right now across the street from that iconic steel mill I mean that's really that that used to be America's Silicon Valley like about half of the world's steel used to be manufactured there uh but now so much has changed uh and then I ran for mayor and a small town mayor and and then that turned into well I decided like the kinds of issues that were meaningful to me

and the personal kinds of experiences I I just thought hey I want to project my kinds of experiences and my values and I started uh to I ran for I ran for the first time in 2016 I ran for the Senate I mean it's pretty kind of strange that you have a small town mayor running for the United States Senate and uh but I mean we had no money I mean zero zero money on that but we just we' had a really like Grassroots kind of a thing and we got out across Pennsylvania and we

know we came up a little short but we we pulled in 20% of the of the votes which that was pretty pretty people thought that was pretty remarkable and I carried my home county which is alagan that's the second largest and that really kind of set the stage uh to run for lieutenant governor a a couple years later after 2016 but 2016 though that was where America met Donald Trump and and I was I was early you know uh turning the alarm off saying hey we have to be concerned here like you know Trump has

connected with people uh in ways uh that it's like we have to be concerned and I'll never forget it was June in 2016 and I was a I was a I was a surrogate for uh for Clinton and and Trump announced I'm showing up in a town called messen messen which is a small uh steel town in the valley down from from ours and I'm like why the why is he showing up in I mean that's not that like so either he's crazy or they've they've plugged into something and like I have to see that

so I tried to get into that just to kind of see what was going on but they they recognized me and they said yeah get the out you're hard to hide yeah and and so but but there like they figured out that they have to connect and to make that kind of an argument to go to these kind of places and it it it it did it resonated and you started to see a lot of the signs and a lot of the energy and it's like hey you know there's there's a there's a problem uh

and the the Clinton campaign everybody assumed that she was going to you know run away with it yeah and and they made they made the the mistake of just showing up in Philadelphia Philadelphia and Pittsburgh Pittsburgh and assume that they were going to be okay but but a lot had slipped and now the margins Trump created uh margins that were unheard uh like you know we refer to them as Romney margins so in other words you have red counties and Romney would they would cover those by about 60 to 65% and Trump did he created

80s 80s we were losing 8020 8020 and like well yeah that's a small County but yeah you multiply that by 57 57 other counties and that's how they scale up and that's how he won and he won by 45,000 votes and that's why he captured the blue wall and that made him president and here we are right now that the the blue wall is they're both fighting on the the blue wall and the blue wall is Pennsylvania Wisconsin and Michigan when when you were running during 2016 what were you trying to accomplish like what what

did you want to do that you felt like you could uniquely provide a service for uh well it wasn't I just think it was just different I'm like hey I was running I was running for about forgot forgotten places people where Americas turned their backs on them and talking about those those kinds of important issues like uh living wage um abandoning uh the industrial parts of of America you know some people watching uh what what things have been left behind behind in places like bradock it's like uh it's astonishing 90% of people left and 90%

of the buildings are gone and that whole region has just been uh just uh thrown thrown away uh so I just wanted I didn't you know there was a path I mean there were two other people uh in the primary uh and I thought I could maybe split I could split the other two and just sneak by and get 33% plus one extra vote but I I came up a little short because I had no money because it's always going to be about money uh and then uh Katie McGinty she won but she lost and

and then that that was that same cycle and then uh and that the same year that that Trump won and so since you've been in since you've gotten into the Senate what meaningful change have you been able to accomplish there well I again you're you're a freshman and you know my colleague and one that was was just here Senator Vance I mean we were both in the same cycle we both ran in 22 so we' both there for less than two years and you it's really based on seniority and it's just kind of like hey

get on the end of that line you know uh so you are a freshman and it's you know your influences you know at least uh in the institution are are limited in some sense but if you have a bigger platform and I did and I try to have those kinds of impacts and having those conversations but my my first couple uh first half of that first year uh that was a little took a different uh detour because you know I I was dealing with uh with depression I was with depression and I realized that I

was in a in a bad place uh so so having that uh having to make those kind of choices and I signed myself in to Walter Reed to get help because the depression and and U so I I think uh it's an important conversation and I knew I I thought at that time it could be politically could be difficult uh but I thought it was important and and now if that cost me something politically I'm okay uh so that's why I'm continuing so how the impact I've had I never fully expected that that voice would

would break through and I'm I'm in contact with people constantly saying thank you for for talking about this um I chose to get help um or I I chose not to to uh follow that path on self harm and uh so I've had active conversations with member of Congress or fathers with with younger kids and they're like hey can you please talk and I and I do that I'm happy to talk to anybody and and so that's a way I've had an impact through through all of that and also my voice through uh after what

happened on 107th uh you know October 7 uh and I've decided I was going to be a very consistent voice uh for for Israel through that so that's why kind of like the platform but in terms of if anyone's being honest whether it was Senator Vance or any kinds of freshman Senators it's very limited because otherwise there's people that have been there for 25 30 years they're the ones that are be the chairman and if you're a minority party you have incredibly limited kinds of ability to to to move an agenda so the depression thing

I think it's very important that you talked about that I think uh transparency is something that people really appreciate uh so many people suffer from depression it's such a normal part of being a human being and for a guy like you who's a senator who's already gone through being attacked already gone through all these horrible things that they said about you are you recovering from a stroke it takes a lot of courage to to come out and discuss that I think it's really important I'm I'm really glad you did it well I don't well thank

you but I don't think it was really courage it's like I only had a choice but it is courage because you know you're going to be publicly attacked and it's a vulnerable point but I think it's not because I think so many people suffer from it I think there's courage and coming out and and talking about it openly and realizing that people are going to use as an attack vector and saying you know what this is important to talk about this is important to acknowledge and to to show people that you can recover from something

like that well originally I was just going to talk about depression and and there's a paradox you know you might be a place in your life that that you've actually kind of won but the depression lies to you and it convinces you that you've lost and my depression got far more worse after I won and and then it it was a it was a downward spiral and then if you don't if you don't check your depression then you go down a dangerous slop about self harm and I started to have I got to to to

occupy that kind of a dark place and um and that's when I realized that I have a choice it's like if I don't address this uh then um I I had I had an emergency break you know I it's like I I have to stop I have to stop I have to and that was my kids I'm like I I I'm like I cannot be I can't be the example and when you're going to be get older in life and you're going to have those kinds of challenge well hey Dad decided to to leave oh

that must be the right thing and I'm like I will I cannot allow myself to be uh the example for that so I I stayed in the game and and I was able to get help and and I got much better so like for me it's like I originally didn't want to talk about self har because that's definitely that's definitely not a great political winner right but I I was like I have to be answered uh excuse me I have to be honor about that and and honest and uh and people that really resonated with

people I was I think the first person I was the first politician especially at at that level talking about self harm and you know if people are that are suffering people that I mean you have a huge a huge audience I'm willing to bet plenty of them are suffering from that or looking through those kinds of is doubt no doubt yeah and and uh I you know I promise people whatever your path whatever your path is for Recovery uh and I'm not an expert but if you promise yourself to stay in that game stay in

that game that you already you know you're almost guaranteed to get better because I promise you it will get better and I was at the point where I was really you know in a very dark place and uh I stayed in that game and I am staying in front of front of you right now and having this conversation and uh so that's what I try to tell everybody whether they're listening today or in other times when I've had that uh it's it's an honest conversation but it is a red and blue conversation and it's a

rural and urban or Suburban conversation it's men or women or even younger kids I've had conversations with teenagers you know with their parents and they've even tried to take their lives and I can't think of anything much more tragic than especially a young person taking their lives over some of the things that that um and and I never thought that that voice would would penetrate but it did and that's why I'm willing to have that conversation well it's apparently it's very common for people that undergo major surgery to uh have depression afterwards and there's a

a bunch of physiological reasons for that they believe my friend Dr Mark Gordon who's done a lot of work on traumatic brain injuries and uh depression amongst athletes and soldiers he did a lot of research on that and one of one of the things that they found was that people that undergo uh like a long period of anesthesia and either heart surgery or any kind of major surgery there's a disruption of your endocrine system after afterwards that leads people to be just weary and broken down and I could imagine that along with the senate race

and all the other chaos and all the stresses involved with that it plays a significant factor well I'm sure it must have been a a factor um I I discovered that I had I had two friends um they're roughly my age and they had young kids and uh they took they took their lives and they were both in the in the media and both one was worked for an incredibly Elite organization and another one had a really strong position one had a a heart attack and the other one had a stroke years earlier and I

found out and and I wish I could have talked to them and I did talk to to to them but uh it doesn't mean they were weak or that they gave up it it's just I got lucky and I I found my emergency break and and and if you have any kinds of study on people and and self harm there was an individual he jumped off the Golden Gate and he survived and immediately after he says uh as he crossed over the rail and he I want to live I want to live what have I

done it's like I've made a terrible mistake and you hit you hit the water going 75 miles an hour and it's it's very against chance of surviving but he did and now he became obsessed with this idea and he he looked out for everyone that survived and about 45 people out of 00 people that have jumped over they survived and it was unanimously people immediately like oh my God I want to live I want to live I want to live and not one single person thought well I wish I was more successful uh so like

that's I I try to put that forward and I can't imagine how difficult because uh they had children the same age mind and trying to explain to a 10-year-old uh son like why did daddy leave and uh those are dark conversations and uh uh so uh it's not about weakness it's about trying to get away from that people that are suffering from depression if to if anyone's been there it's like your your mind is on fire and you just want to get away from that I just please I need relief from that kind of a

thing and every now and then you have like kind of like the eye of the hurricane or you finally thought maybe things could get better but it it it Roars back in and it's like you get to back to that very dark place and and I just you know I just tell everybody I'm beg I'm begging you stay in that game I promise you it can get better and the the depression is lying to you it is absolutely lying to you and uh is but don't make the kind of choice that you can't come back

from I have a friend who uh jumped off the bridge died that way yeah it's uh it's a terrible just a a terrible thing to find out and you you always feel like you could have talked to them you could have helped you always feel like you I didn't know I didn't know he was suffering and then I found out that he died a few days later and it was just like it just leaves you feeling so lost it's such a terrible way to go too that bridge God how many people like what you say

how many people have jumped off that bridge the Golden Gate I I think that they they referenc about over 1,800 people uh and a small small tiny survived uh and and really being faced that idea that you're not going to come back it's it's like spontaneously Curative like oh my God I want to live I want to live I want to live like it's it's it was unanimous about uh and and that's such an important kinds of re research that that that he did um and it it's like and again like that's my message it

has to be very simple stay in that game it it's like you you can't do this you can't do this and you need support uh yeah yeah you need support whatever that is and some people have different kinds of resources I mean I would want that for everybody the resources that I had and that's not fair it's not fair um and it it I got lucky it's not because I'm like I'm so much stronger or or better it's like no no I just got lucky on that and I promise you you're not going to regret

staying in the game and you can get better and that is probably I think in my uh my opinion that's about 75% of of getting back better what have you done to to help what has helped you uh my my family that that's that's really what like every every person needs to have like uh that eer I call that like an emergency break it's like you know you are you're out of control you know you're having that the darkest conversation you'll have with yourself and you have to have some something to stop that otherwise it's

you're going to go over the edge and and everyone needs to have that whatever that is whether it's your family whether it's your wife or your husband or whether it is uh uh or this that there has to be some it has to get better it's going to get better you know that's why I say stay on the game and I'm not an expert I'm not trained in that but when people reach out to me and say well I feel like this and and I'm like hey it's like you know help works I promise you

it will get better and I can't guarantee what your path will be but what I can say is that stay in that game and you were going to find your way on that path and you're never going to regret it's like oh you know be uh it's it just the the finality the finality of that uh and you're some things you can make a bad choice and you know well that might set you back in life but but that's the that's the one CH the one choice you can't come back from and you will leave

people in your life that they'll never understand or you wish you could reach back and you could let them know uh and it stay away from that kind of Blackness because uh you're I promise you you would regret uh and and if you can't come back so what what has helped you counsel medication like what what did what are the things that got you back on track other than just your family I uh the election uh and everything I was convinced that I've lost everything uh I had you know it was difficult to to fully

speak and my my kids they got pulled into the social media kinds of uh invective and um uh it's like I've I've destroyed my my health I've I've and now I've against you know odds I I won and now am I going to be able to do this job and and you know would I have been better off uh if if I didn't survive uh and I got to that that kind of a a dark place but um and then I just had this like that spontaneous where it's like uh uh my kids it's like

like no I love you like oh my gosh it's like like when they were visiting uh I didn't want them to visit me at Walter Reed like I was like why would they want to be around this you know right uh but they they did and it it was like this kind of spontaneous kinds of love and and it it it just was like a shot and it's just like I can come back I can come back I I thought it's like why would they want this me a mess back uh and and and then

you know just working through a lot of those things and and other kinds of techniques and things it was like but that was probably the single most transformative event where it's like I realize that I can come back to my life otherwise it's like I thought I've lost everything would I be able to even do my job and it's like do I even have a career I mean I'm talking about uh like uh that was a significant national uh story when after I signed myself in and that pulled my kids in through that I mean

this idea and after we announced that we're signing in and there were news trucks outside their house and and they had they had the trauma of thinking that Dad could have lost after the stroke and now he is it's just it's they it's put them through so much and that's why I was convinced that they probably don't want me around and then I made the I made the stupid mistake of I I I went on social media and things I'm like and just I read some of that I mean it's just it's just oh my

God millions and millions of views in videos and it's just like you know going after my family and it's saying that you know uh you know hey he's a vegetable he's you know he's a and uh you know sling sling blade all kinds of things and it wasn't it wasn't the individual kinds of insults it was the volume and just how WID Sprint it was and I'm like who jumps online to go after a a a stranger that's never really done anything to you personally well I think it's not just individuals I think it's targeted

I think there's a lot of that stuffff especially when there's something that is significant as a senate seat and I think there's yeah well I mean it's like if I have aund if I have a100 million to convince you that you're a terrible person and you're the worst thing ever and that that that inspires a lot of people and they hey that's the mission it's like he clearly he must be those things and you know we're now there there is no there's no tap out there is no tap out it's like even after we won

after I won in some sense it actually accelerated right it's not the the war is not over it's just begun no oh no no and the the second the second you step into that kind of Arena on the federal level for for like a a senate uh seat if if it's like a purple State like Pennsylvania you know I promise you there will be tens and tens of millions of dollars and their mission is to turn you into the worst thing in the world and whoever survives that's the one that's going to be in that

seat and I still will never understand why someone uh you know independently wealthy kinds of people will spend you know incredible amounts of money and and I Tred people I'm like there's no glamour here like I like I'm in a 500 square foot apartment and I'm like here with my phone I'm like hey GrubHub what's said tonight mm and then it's like I'm like I watch you know TV on Netflix and things and I I ask I ask uh my colleagues I'm like hey is there kind of secret society like you know like you know

crazy parties or you know sitting around with cigars and you know you know all this and they're like well well no I I kind of have the same version of of that that's the perception though right the perception yeah the perception is we invited into a club yeah now you control the world yeah that we all have kinds of dialogue on West Wing you know like talking like you know kinds of turn you know uh and really it's it's just like and and I describe that as a lot of it's just bad it's just bad

performance art yeah yeah thanks that's usually what it it is it's just bad performance art and some people like if you're if you're in a safe in a safe state or a safe seat you and especially if you have the resources and they're incredibly wealthy people uh they buy a a house and they move their life there so you're able to kind of things but uh like I don't have those resources and I'm in a very very the ultimate purple and so I spend more than 50% of my time away and I miss my kids

it's it's it's rough uh for for that I mean I signed up for that uh but I I promise you there's no glamour uh in that well there's certainly no glamour if you're honest but I think there's a lot of people that look to uh certain members of the government that have jobs that pay 150 $170,000 a year but somehow or another acquire hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of their career usually through some kind of insider trading uh well yeah of course I mean uh I I don't own any of those stocks

or anything and definitely like if if you have any kinds of impact or you know that there's something s is coming I mean yeah like it's like you you need how is that legal uh it's well no we we should have the kind of legislation to make sure that you're not like if you are on Congress you shouldn't have any kinds of stocks because you are going to be passing kinds of laws etc etc that you you know you have to separate that there they really shouldn't be a part of that kinds of a thing

and um I mean know I'm all out I'm open um all of us we have to have our our our wealth and our you know all that there and I and if I'm not the the the the the poorest uh I have probably the the bottom five and you know other people there are worth hundreds of millions of dollars uh so you know we can't have that situation where you know if you're going to be involved on those kinds of legislation that you can't be enriched by those kinds of and and there has to be

some kind of influence that seems simple that seems like Lo logical like most people would agree to that yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of iner it's the same thing I I think if any one of us we're being honest uh money is destroying our democracy and and that that's that some people that might sound trite or it's a cliche but it's it's 100% though I most people who are objective would agree with you it it it I promise you it is it is absolute it is a scourge of American democracy and money

is King and what's that money for that money is for tearing you apart and that creates more more and more kinds of incivility and cruelty and then now when I went through when I was in graduate school for that stuff I mean there was no social media and there wasn't all you know there wasn't podcasts there wasn't all kinds of things uh so that made it more difficult but but now there's all of those things and and social media is an accelerate uh and count you know just unlimited money and that has what you know

like I'm sure you you know you're you're an athlete and you if you've heard that NFL players it's like wait would you want your son to play and sometimes say well no I wouldn't want that for my son uh and and it's like I'm relieved that uh my oldest is like he has no interest in being in politics and that so uh it's I I can't imagine it's going to get better until you know we address this idea that unlimited money is unlimited uh attack and it's un an unlimited cruelty and Hyperbole and just all

kinds of poisoning the the will that you know half of us are going to hate your guts and the other half that's my team yeah so well I I strongly feel that the internet should remain the way it is in terms of people being able to post on social media anonymously if they so choose but the problem with that is it can be captured by money and it can be captured by the these enormous groups that have bot Farms whether it's uh State actors whether it's other countries other nations that are doing that to try

to attack our our system and to try to promote certain narratives or whether it's our own country itself doing it because I think we do it too and I think that PS do it and it's just people hook themselves up it's like you you self- select your cocoon yes you know and like uh I'm a big fan of Apple news and it's like 13 bucks a month and and but I read everything across the Spectrum you know very very left and very very right in between and and I think it's really I think that's your

responsibility especially if you're an elected leader uh to to be challenged to challenge yourself on the ideas and it's like clearly one side doesn't have all the answers and the other side can't be 100% wrong and and it's just like being challenging and living or taking in other kinds of perspectives uh I think that's a responsibility cuz otherwise if you only just cocoon yourself into and it's just it turns into one gigantic circle jerk and and that's why it just turns people to just kind of dig in and it's like hey you know the the

problem is them and we have to well it's a problem with human beings in general is that we tend to be very tribal and we tend to commit to an ideology whether comfortable it's comfortable sure especially when you're in an echo chamber everyone's agreeing with you you get social credit from saying the things that these people all agree with and you you feed off that but it's when it's being captured by it's not just these people exchanging ideas it's also a bunch of people that are manipulating people's ideas you know I don't know if you've

ever paid attention to like uh Renee desta's work with the uh internet research agency what what what they what they uncovered what what they were doing was using this was like during the 2016 election using social media and it was a lot of Russian troll farms and troll farms in other countries it's it's it's possible but but but but to be honest I I that that election wasn't turned on I think Russian in interference I I'm not I I what what happened in 2016 was Trump you know he plugged into like kinds of a of

an energy or you know like it was just like kind of looking uh to to make that kind of a a connection there well he's a legitimate Outsider this is the appeal the appeal is that people think that this system is completely rigged and it's captured by money and special interests and enormous corporations and that here's a guy who's outside of this system completely and the evidence of that is how the system turned against him and how you got to see people on television every night talking about Russia gate talking about how he's a puppet

of Putin talking about the steel dossier a talking about all these different things that turned out to not be true and it it further I never bought I never bought into some of that kind of a stuff because if anyone that spent any time on the ground in one of those States it's like it's very clear that wasn't because of some some small kinds of tweets and things like whatever uh it's it's it's it's undeniable and and also uh remember like he was uh you know the Republican party was like hey this is a joke

and I remember Jeb Jeb Bush you know and he W he had like 100 or two2 200 million and and he just went by he ticked him off uh and and even then people thought he was going to win but uh he did but but remember though overall though that was 75,000 votes that's a mathematical like uh you know I mean think of that 100 160 million votes 75,000 spread across three large States including my own that transformed uh American politics and in the world as well and it just came down to 75,000 voters in

those three states and that that's kind of where that's where we're at yeah it's um it's an extraordinary time in that regard right I mean it's well I mean if Uncharted Territory well I I I referen a movie if you like a bullworth I remember that movie bullworth and you know it was Warren Beauty and he was a a senator and he kind of have like a breakdown and he started saying provocative things he used to get up in front of his audience and and kind of like uh like that Gaff of of accidentally speak

you know telling the truth yeah and um it was kind of like it was an absurd I mean when I was in grad school that was like put up as like well that I mean people enjoyed that and now that became a term in politics saying oh we uh in even uh President Obama was like hey we all want to secretly Go full bull full bull worth mhm and but but that's what really he channeled in where he would say uh you know it's kind of like he projects kind of like well I don't give

a and just say all those kinds of a thing and and people have responded to those kinds of things and and there you know a lot of people they that that's the that's the bug but you have to understand that that for enough people that's the feature yeah and and that's kind of what they want and and whatever that is it it describes uh uh a brand that you know it's it's not I don't admire that but you still have to kind of uh Marvel at at at the level to say crazy kinds of things

that that it you I'm well I guess maybe we're both old enough to remember when uh George in the George Bush uh Al Gore he is like God this guy and that moved the poles people were like he rolled his eyes at Bush you know like things and like you know like it used to be much more stayed and now think of what's been said now and all of the stuff and and I don't think people aren't paying attention some of the uh whatever the latest outrage is yeah it's um I think one of your

appeals is that you speak like a normal human being you speak like a person who actually cares about these issues and you seemingly speak from the heart you don't seem polished which is a good thing and I think people I wish I wish I was more handsome you know I don't think I don't think that's good oh no no I I know it's like I'm honest yeah I'm honest I I think I'm in I'm in touch with you know what I'm limited I wasn't blessed with model looks and uh but it's not looks it's the

Polish of speaking like a congressman like a senator like a presidential candidate but it's this kind of way of communicating that's inauthentic that even though it's effective even though it's polished and smooth people never get a sense of who that person is as a human being Trump is not polished he's not polished in that sense but you get a sense of who he is as a human being that doesn't seem to be a veil there doesn't seem to be this this disconnect between a human being and the thoughts you might not agree with him you

might think he's crass or rude but at least you know that he's the guy that's talking these are his thoughts and you people trust that way more than they trust someone who's you know polished but full of yeah no it's it's that Scarface it's like you know word and balls you know I'm not going you know and that's you you're losing politically if you're telling people to not believe what their eyes are seeing right you know like these kinds of issues and and it's like I'm not going to lie or I'm not going to tow

a line if I don't if I don't believe if I don't believe in that that uh so um but in terms of of the the conversation um I I I think it's like it's it's all I've got and uh and it's not because I don't care it's actually I'm very committed and I really do care but but I think people are you know like I think authenticity that's the that's the last that's really that's one of the last uh meaningful currency in this shitty business uh so I was having a conversation this morning with a

friend of mine and we were talking about voter ID and and he was shocked that you don't need voter ID in I believe it's 15 states 15 states require no ID uh 20 I think it's 24 or 25 states require ID but only I think 11 of them require you to have photo ID this is a weird one in this election that I've tried tried to look at as objectively as possible and I can't see any reason why you would not need ID to vote unless you wanted people to vote that aren't qualified to vote

yeah well I mean uh like honest honestly I would I would like to remind everybody and it's it's not like a talking point it's actually it's in a fact that voter fraud is incredibly incredibly rare it's really hard to to to um to to get away with that successful and in 2020 that's scale you mean uh yeah it's not scalable yeah it's like I mean um it's like and usually it's it's kind of local kinds of communities and people they either know that person or it's it's not it it it's never going to be organized

in a point where you can pack you can pack uh a box or you can't determine that that kind of a thing it's it's just that you know after election election election it it's just never been you know in 2020 out of uh over millions of votes in 2020 in Pennsylvania there were five or six you know ones and what happened is that that they they turned out to be uh the Republicans and they used their deceased their their dead moms you know to to vote for Trump through that and and that that was that

was documented and they were all they were all they they were uh uh caught they were charged they were convicted and all those votes that would have been six votes out of all of it so it think that that's the only voter fraud that exists well people also we need to remind that you know the the the voter database their cross checks against deaths and you know who's moved or what's their status are like oh like you know all that's cross checked back and forth back and forth back and forth so it's it's it's a

living kinds of thing where it's continually updated and all of those kinds of things and it it self checks and remember also in 2020 you know Trump there was like way there's there's cheating there's all these things are happening and remember there's probably 57 58 red counties and all of those Commissioners that are in charge of that they were like hey no there was none there was none and even in Georgia even in Georgia uh Governor Kemp Governor Kemp uh like hey you know Georgia you know it was very close but it was it was

honest there was no there was no kinds of fraud in that and that's that's a republican but other than making things a little bit easier to cheat what would be the logic behind not having voter ID like what I I've tried to look at this as objectively as possible I can't find any reason why you would not require someone to be able to prove that they're the person they say they are when they're putting in their ballots it's it's not a hill that I'm saying I we have to die on that too again uh but

but it's a vulnerability clearly right well well it it's also there some people may not believe that uh in in a lot of these kinds of communities you know ones that I that I live in um for some people they they're not going to they don't they don't have an IDE necessarily or they've lost it or whatever and you know like but you need one to get a driver's license you need one to get a c yeah they would have to get an ID or it it costs x amount of dollars um or those kinds

of a thing it's it's a barrier and it usually tends to skew more towards people that are you know coming from those kinds of communities and the Republicans understand that they're usually going to they're going to skew towards Democratic voters through that uh and uh so that that's kind of the argument uh on that and there's never been any evidence that there is widespread kinds of of uh voter fraud uh and that's but we really didn't have widespread mail-in ballots to the extent that it was done in 2020 we really didn't have that before all

of those were all of those were you know those five or six you know dead moms that were voting uh those were all those were all U well actually one one guy one guy went in he voted you know and then he went up to his car and he put on sunglasses in a bob cap and he walked in he's like hi hello I'm here to vote and the guy's like you were just here what are you doing and then they called the police uh and and then it's like yeah he was trying to double

vote and did you uh see the story about the Chinese uh National who was arrested because uh he voted and then uh he tried to get his ballot back and that's how they they caught him it's possible yeah yeah this is thing that just happened and unfortunately once he's voted even though he was not eligible to vote his vote is going to count um Texas removed some I mean there's lawsuits about it but Texas removed somewhere in the neighborhood of a million people that uh were ineligible to vote that could have been voting well but

everybody knows who's voting and who's not voting on that and then that's why you mean you mean by everybody knows well and and and remember also too uh Dominion you know people uh on on on the Trump side they all said that that dominions was corrupt and and then they and that cost Fox uh $800 million they had to pay $800 million about defamation for saying that there was it was rigged or if it's not and there was no evidence uh and they had to just acknowledge that that this was the honest thing so but

Dominion is a it's a computer program right it's a it's a computer like that's what you doing you're doing electronic voting yeah that that was that was a system that that you know mostly and often it was red states that were using those do you remember well that that is true because do you remember the documentary hacking democracy did you ever see that again there's always going to be people that are going to try to to have an influence on that right but did you see that documentary it was about the the Republicans doing it

I I I haven't seen that documentary it a documentary during the Bush Administration and one that they they showed that the diebold machines um and diebold was a significant contributor I believe to the Republican party they showed in the documentary that you could use a third- party input to change the results and they they actually proved it in the documentary and people were pointing to this is oh my God the Republicans are cheating and the Republicans have used this to try to rig the election for George Bush was an HBO documentary I'm not accusing I

I've never accused the Republicans uh like well for in 2016 no I'm not I'm not saying you did what I'm trying to say is that this is not a a thing that's only been leveled against the the the Democrats using it this is not like an accusation that only applies to Democrats in the past the similar accusation was applied to Republicans yeah well I mean I I I think we can all agree that we need to have a sec just like our border we need a secure border and we need an absolutely secure voting voting

system as well too I mean that that should never be considered uh controversial to that and in in 2016 u a lot of Democrats were were outrage that that that we lost but but I never claimed that there was you know the the Republicans cheated or do all those kinds of things uh and it's like you know the problem the problem for accusing that there was voter fraud is is that if you don't like the the outcome right you know so and I have never witnessed a rep a u an ction if if they've won

that they claimed well there might be you know we we might cheated yeah no we're not cheating so that so I think that's that's kind of that's I think that's kind of the underlying uh TR truth about that and and of course uh you know I I think I was first Democrats saying hey though we need a secure border we you know it's a significant issue and if I thought there was any kinds of issues and I've been very Vigilant throughout I've been actively involved in those kinds of things and I've never witnessed those kinds

of a thing what do you mean by issues like what kind of issues you're talking about you're talking about people letting people in in order to get votes uh well I I it's not there's not that level kinds I don't think there's that level kinds of organization but there is an organization that's moving these people to swing States there's a significant number of these people that are illegal immigrants that have made their way to swing States and then there's been calls for amnesty there's been calls for allowing these people to have a pathway to citizenship

and allow them to vote the fear that a lot of people have is that this is a coordinated effort to take these people that you're allowing to come into the country then you're providing them with all sorts of services like food stamps and housing and setting them up and then providing a pathway to amnesty and then you would have voters that would be significantly voting towards W the Democrats because they're the people that enabled them to come into the country in the first place first place and provided them with those services this is a big

fear that people have and that you're rigging this system and that this will turn all these states into essentially locked blue like California is well I I you know it's what immigration is always going to be a tough issue in our nation you know I I had as a professor uh in grad school uh Alan Alan Simpson and he uh was uh he was a United States Senator he was Wyoming uh and he was he was he was actually a proo uh Choice Republican I mean how rare that would be well it doesn't exist now

and he said you are never going to have any meaningful immigration kinds of legislation he's like because both side that's useful for them and it's going to be back and forth back and forth and he said that 25 years ago useful meaning the debate having it always some political useful for one side or the other it's it's useful and he he he said I they were never going to be and he said that in 1999 and I was I I voted for for the Border deal and that and that went down and and that's I

mean he said that 25 years ago and that was absolutely true now that that that they had an opportunity to do a comprehensive border uh bipartisan and that went down because Trump um he he declared that that that's that's a bad deal after it was negotiated with with the other side but was didn't that deal also involve amnesty and didn't that deal also involve a significant number of illegal aliens being allowed into the country every year I think it was 2 million people so it was still the same sort of situation and their fear is

exactly what I talked about that these people will be moved to swing States and that that will be used to essentially rig those States and turn them blue forever uh well I I'm not I'm not really sure if that's that's what what's what's in play I I think it's really like it's important that we have to have an an honest conversation but doesn't that seem logical though if you have a significant number of people that are being moved into swing states that have come across the border illegally and then you've provided them with all these

Services you provided them with food stamps EBT youve provided them with housing you could if you gave those people amnesty and allowed those people to vote and it was very organized you're talking about 75,000 votes over a few counties that switched everything over to the Republicans you could see how you import 10 million people over the course of four years illegally and then move a significant number of them to swing States and then provide them with all these services and then give them a path to citizenship you could essentially rig those States undeniably immigration is

changing our nation I mean I haven't spent a lot of time in Texas but it's very clear that that immigration has has remade Texas and I think it's generally it's it's for for a good thing and like my wife my wife's Brazilian and she was uh she was her family was undocumented uh and she was 7 years old when she was brought here and and I and I'm the big pro pro immigration guy that there was but it's also has to be true that we need a secure border and we have to work this out

because we are pretending that you have millions and millions of people you know living in the shadow and they are here and we have to work together and figure out a way to get forward because they're here and it seems incredibly a difficult kind of logistics thing and I think it's it's also unamerican to to to round everybody up and who in the vast majority of them are just living legal uh lives and doing a lot of the jobs that other people here would never do I think we can agree on that well JD Vance

actually talked about that the other day when he was here he was explaining how there are CEOs of large corporations that want these people to come across because they need cheap labor and the way to get cheap labor is have people that are illegals working for less than what would be our minimum wage well I I'm not aware I mean minimum wage really it's it's I think it's it's most incredibly difficult and and violent kind of jobs like you know like and and that's like that's you know meat jobs that a lot of people don't

a lot of those those are kind of really rough processing Construction very you know rough rough and this is the thing that's been said about Springfield Ohio that these Haitians that have moved to Springfield Ohio there people are complaining about them but the people that have employed these people of saying listen these people are taking jobs that other people that lived in this community don't want they work very hard and they're very happy that they have this Pathway to be in America now I think most people that come here come here because they want a

better life for their families and America is essentially a country that was founded by immigration I'm I'm a grandchild of immigrants my I'm here because of immigration this we all were imigrant this is an immigrant country essentially yeah and and it's like I it's again and and like uh the the the Haitians the Haitians you know that they're referencing in Ohio in Springfield I mean they're not eating dogs they're not eating pets and those kinds of things now it's reasonable I mean I've said the same thing that we have to have a secure border but

it didn't even apply to to that situation that was all a legal situation that was amn amnes excuse me um and that's because Haiti was was it was uh it was terrible yeah a terrible situation ter situation uh and and to me they were doing those jobs and and Republicans you know even the the the Republican governor was saying like these are good workers and this is not the problem they aren't eating geese and and it's just like you can be very pro pro border like I am or you can be very you know strict

on immigration but you don't have to demonize or or try to turn a group of of people in that they're eating your dog well I think they eating ducks and eating look I'm sure some people have done that you know you know why I know that because some people do that in places that are just Americans ducks are edible and some people want to eat a duck and it's just like you're not going to stop it but that's not the major problem that people face so this is the pro side of it right the pro

side of it is you give a pathway to people that are from very unfortunate circumstances and I think we would both agree that if we were living in those countries and there was a pathway to citizenship in the United States all you had to do is make it across the border we would both do it if it was better for our families it was better for our future if we were living in a place that had no hope and no future and all you had to do is make it to America and and you could

work we would all do it I would do it you would do it I bet everybody listening to this would do it if they found themselves in that circumstance that's the best aspect of it the best aspect of it is good people that are ambitious that want a better life which is how this country was founded the worst aspect of it is Venezuelan gangs that are taking over apartment buildings in Aurora Colorado and San Antonio Texas that's the worst aspect of it is that they're letting in gang members Venezuela's emptied out their prisons and essentially

according to the president marel Boat Lift you know the whole right what happened in Cuba yeah the same kind of deal emptying out their prisons and instructing these people to make it to America this is a significant problem with the open border yeah and that's why we need a secure border and there's also and it that all of this is about a truth is that America is a beacon for to the world millions of people the the de demand to become a citizen here or to participate in our amazing Society the demand outstrips the the

space there and we're there we're already the very pro-immigration uh we we allow more kinds of a path more than any other nations in the world on that and people are willing to die and they put themselves at risk just to kind of get here to be a wor this about here so America isn't the problem America is America is is one of the Great Hopes in the world and that's why so many people want to come be a part of that and and that's why it have to have an effective border and it's like

if you know we had a real issue here and we wanted to address that and that's why you know my my former Professor uh said that you're never going to have the kind of a deal because it is useful for both sides to weaponize that and to demonize one side or turn the other thing in there because it's a serious important issue um it's a political talking point that's they're always going to use that's what you're saying yeah it's it's useful I mean it's it's we it's it's Weapon It's weaponized uh and that's why you

have to have an an honest conversation that's the thing I've always you know I I I re I was reaching out saying that was referred to hr1 and that that was like kind of like the dream kind of immigration law coming out of the house and I was like hey if that border deal goes down then it's like hey we should continue to have that conversation you know we you know it's like they parts of they Parts but the what's contradictory is that say if you're coming from Canada or Europe and you're a highly skilled

uh college educated person who wants to live in America and become a United States citizen the path to citizenship is incredibly difficult it's hard you have to go up for review you have to show that you're doing something that Americans can't do you have to be a person of significant Talent OR ability there's something about you that we want you in here yet if you just make it across the border and walk in people want to give you amnesty and they want to allow you a path to citizenship quickly without any of those Hoops you

don't have to take tests you don't have to go up for review not only that but once you get here once you apply for amnesty there's a significant weight period where you're allowed to maintain your residence in this country it's between seven and sometimes longer years yeah we we have to figure out what's what's the way that's kind of crazy though isn't it but the fact is we have we have an issue we have millions of people here and you know the vast majority of them are are living legal kinds of lives and of course

what would you do if you were the president let's imagine president Federman has to deal with this issue you want to address the American people what do you think should be done again having that I would have the same conversation to to the Congress and to the American people like I'm having right now as well too like I you know I think it's two things can be true at the same time you can be very pro-immigration I wouldn't have the the beautiful family that I have if it wasn't for you know challenges and issues with

immigration uh but then we have to figure out a way that we can marry a s a successful way that we can we can combine you know I think I I personally I do think immigration is is really one of our our secret weapons I think that's what makes America so so strong I agree with you yeah I do that's made ambitious people want a better life I mean that's literally how we're founded and that's what be do you see people trying to to to to live illegally in India or Russia you don't see people

trying take Nations like that I mean that's I mean it's it's in some sense it's it's in a weird way it's like kind of a kind of a it's a significant but a good problem to have because we have we're such an amazing Nation throughout that agreed but if I'm if I'm president Federman I'm like hey we got to figure this out we got to figure this out I'm not going I'm not going to demonize I'm not going to demonize the Republicans and say that you're phobic or I mean the second you start calling somebody

oh you're zop phobic you're it's like well then the conversation is going to shut down uh and I'm saying I I it's like for a serious conversation requires serious people and the second the second and that's when you talk about unlimited money and it's like suddenly you're like I mean I had I had gigantic billboard saying fetterman equals you know open borders and fet you know like it's just like you know I get turned into you know like a Marxist yeah yeah just that's all these kinds of things and it's just like and of course

that was never true and then when I had the opportunity because you know as I'm a senator and we have that kinds of legislation in front of me I'm like yes we need to have a serious ones and now people like were shocked they're like oh wait a minute I thought they told us that he was all like Border in opening up and whatever and it's just not true well that's the problem with people building a fake narrative around your actual opinions and I think people have been shocked by you and we've actually talked about

on the podcast over the last couple years you say very reasonable things very reasonable honest things yeah that's the thing and it's rare for politicians I I'm I'm eager to talk to to anyone and it's like I like I I mean I was thrilled to be here and I've I've been a longtime fan of yours and and it's like these are the kinds of um you know like we parts of times we've become too fragile you like oh they're not allowed to talk about those things they're not allowed to have these kinds of conversation I

I never understood why that uh that that's that's really a problem but uh but it's like when people discover it's like well hey he seems to be kind of reasonable or may I disagree with some things but he's not what a hundred million you know train me to think that that's what true about right the propaganda so like what do you think could be done if you were president Federman let's bring it back to that what would you do about the Border like how do you secure the Border but also allow a pathway for people

to pursue their hopes and dreams in the United States yeah I I would I would have you know for me I would have start with the hr2 and there are elements that are are they're just not palatable to uh there are members of my colleagues that you know that they come from you know more more deep blue States and that becomes it's un appell to some people uh uh so how do you secure the Border how would that be done uh well I I I mean it it's it just uh it's got to have it

h you know the the best border deal is is the is the only one that can pass and and if you you know to you know hr2 hr2 was described as like kind of like you know I I joke I called that the the only fans list of what Republicans went for for immigration the only fans wish list you know they're kind of like this is what we all want you know but you know it's like the only fans this is what this is what we want um and that was that was never going to

you mean by that uh that was never going to pass that was never going to pass um and that that was like what every Republicans on the house you know the hard the hardliners that that that's what it was and they passed it because in this cycle the Republicans have the majority in the house and now they they put that up and that's never going to pass in the Senate because we have control and then that kind of got uh sidelined and then when everything kind of came together and that was the aid deal uh

that was for Ukraine for Israel and for China and then uh and then the Republicans tied the border to to passing that and and there were some people that were frustrated saying hey no no that's that's that's that's that's one of the more frustrating things about bills is that you can take a bill about an issue say energy or whatever immigration and attach a bunch of other stuff like support for foreign aid support for specific Wars or whatever it is you could throw a bunch of stuff in there that really shouldn't be in there and

then you have these that are 2,000 pages long and no one's really reading them I I thought well I thought it was reasonable I thought it was reasonable to have that conversation I'm like yeah let's have that conversation I mean because for me it was about security um and for that Aid that Aid uh bill that was uh for me and I think that was that was our global war on Democracy right you know whether it's Ukraine or whether it's Israel and and China and clearly what their intent for China is on Taiwan and and

all that's coming and and that's really what's under assault it's undeniable that de democracy is under under attack and that's why I'm like hey we got to stand and we got to push back against that and now now and like hey we need to have a secure border so let's put everything together and we reached that we we actually reached that and and it took months it literally took months but give me your utopian version of it like let's assume that you could just get this p asked what would you do what would you do

to secure the Border but also provide a pathway to people that want a better life it's only going to have to be a negotiating way that's palatable to both sides I understand that but what would you do if you knew you could just get something through without this negotiation what do you think could be done what's the best version of it what's the utopian version for John fedman well again I I think eventually if you are living your best lives and you're following the law and you're you know and you really just showed up because

hey I have no path for uh for for a life that I would want for my kids you know it's like and then that's that to me that's very American and remember what's in this in the what's inside the the Statue of Liberty it's like send us you know our our tired huddled masses too they it wasn't just hey send in the phds and the you know and those kinds of things I mean that's what really made our nation and you know the steel industry the steel industry you know in my part of the state

that came from it was European it was all kinds of immigrants they all came in they couldn't build the houses fast enough and that was all uh foreign labor and they a lot of them were sacrificed because it was an incredibly dangerous business uh in the steel industry and and that that built our nation and that became part of our society and that's really every every kinds of wave you know and that and and to me America has to be open and a path for anyone that's are playing by the rules because the the group

that you're from or the part of you all started the same kind of a process it's inevitable that that's that's the the enduring truth and that's what made America special and then made us uh make us strong I agree with you so but what could physically be done to secure the Border I mean the wall was sort of dismissed during the Trump Administration but it was also discussed during the Obama Administration even Bill Clinton talked about the importance of having secure borders what could be done physically to secure the Border yeah well again because that

it's like uh that that becomes that becomes like a third rail we can't talk about this or but let's just I understand that politically but let's just assume that that's not an issue what would you want to do what it's like I would want to make sure that we first we have to acknowledge the truth it's like immigration has been an issue because America is amazing country and they're coming from broken countries where they've all recognized that there's not a meaningful path for them to have a quality of life and they're willing to risk their

lives and sometimes they even drown and it's like I can't imagine turning turning like could you imagine turning your children over to a coyote and you know they're going to you know go like like if you're trying to leave imagine I like hey in in Pennsylvania it's like walking to North Carolina with your kids on your back I mean it's like these are desperate kinds of situ and it wasn't an invasion in that sense it was just people wanting to have a part of the American dream and acknowledging where that's at and it needs to

have a path otherwise you're going to have to round up and that's not realistic and there's not the resources and and that's going to be incredibly disruptive and it's going to be damaging economically as as well too so how do you provide a pathway while all Amic with in my respect how do you provide a pathway while also securing the Border well we well to to me I think we can uh you know chew gum and and walk at the same time on this and it's not going to be perfect it's going to be messy

and it's not going to be uh uh right but what would that look like uh whether there's a where's actually a barrier or you know hiring you know thousands and thousands of more agents and whatever that it takes on that and and it's like the best border deal in that situation is the best one that can that can be that can pass because because otherwise I I you know like boy if I could wake up with a perfect head of hair or you know I could you know it's like you know but it's it's like

you know practicing the possible and we were as close as we've ever G in in in years and years and that never came to into I understand what you're saying that it has to pass but what I'm saying is imagine that wasn't the case what could be done like if we could all agree we put politics aside and say you know what everything John fedman is saying makes total sense we have to put that we do need a pathway for these people it is a beautiful part of America the reason why people come here in

the first place is because it's the land of opportunity but yet we also have to keep Venezuelan gangs and prisoners from coming across and murderers and gang members and cartel yeah and we have to we have to weed them out and we have to we have to deport them you know we absolutely it's like this isn't so how do you find them and how do you Deport them uh what's that how do you find them and how do you Deport them well again that's just like like taking taking some kind of an inventory of like

who's actually here on this and we have to figure out who's actually here on those kinds of a thing and and and there are going to be you know it's statistically that's a fact that out of x million people for example you know it's it's a fact that statistically that some that things terrible things are going to be perpetrated by those things uh and you know statistics uh in some sense that that Native Americans not you know like not not in not the American citizens you know and the criminality uh if if anything the criminality

is slightly higher you know in in Immigration communities as well and some of the most Pro pro-american kinds of views uh that's that's that's projected in those kinds of communities I mean just like the community that that brought my my wife and and their family to this to this country uh and and that's that's kind of where we're at and I think what we're seeing now in in this cycle there are more and more Latinos that are you know they're changing their views on some of the they're like hey we do need we do need

a a secure border on that it's not necessarily assume that because you are a member of of a demographic that that it's it has to it's all it's not necessarily consistent that it's going to be strong blue kinds of but we all want safety right we all want safety we all want to minimize crime everyone of of course yeah so you want a secure border to keep criminals from coming over here that's the major the the major impediment of course and and a secure border with more and more resources put on that and and that

makes uh it's but it's it's impossible to make sure that of course you're going to have members of the immigration Community they're going to commit kinds of terrible kinds of crimes and you're going to see and those are going to be talked about in the popular media as well it's un undeniable and I mean they're incredibly tragic and it's it's it's it's a fact and that's actually the truth of the American story immigration made our nation and there were hard truths and we have a hard truth right now and we need to have a secure

border and we have to find a way to celebrate our immigrations and and the kinds of what immigrations and the contributions that they made to this nation uh and also to weed out or to minimize the kinds of negative kinds of things and those kinds of resources because we can't possibly support an unchecked kinds of a situation that we had and I described that if you had 300,000 people showing up at the border well that's the side of Pittsburgh you know the month like where are they going to go you know how are we going

to give them an American dream uh already because they're all going to need to these certain kinds of resources and and that should never be controversial to say it's like we can't that's not sustainable and it's like we want for every immigrant their American Dream It's Impossible if it's if it's unchecked like that and it shouldn't be controversial to to to to anyone politically no it's just reasonable what you're saying it's reasonable um what could be done and who do you think is going to do a better job to uh boost our economy oh well

I I I think it's undeniable too and uh you know I'm certainly not going to count some of the the experience of some people that have been hit by eggs or other things or you know inflation but but right now uh the uh our economy right now it's it's really it's the world's uh uh Envy throughout all those things by any metric it's our Unemployment uh the stock market uh and you know the hundreds of thousands of new jobs that are being created through it all those things and our our inflation now has been kind

of eased back into to to check but it's undenied that there was an incredible uh uh uh in inflation that hit certain kinds of families hard through those things and I think that the next kinds of wave whether it's AI or those other kinds of Innovations whether that it's it's green energy or those kinds of a thing that's going to continue to to juice uh our uh our our economy well AI is a big fear right because AI is going to come with Automation and automation is going to come with removing jobs a challenge I

on my walk here well I didn't walk here but I saw I saw a wh a wh drove by me and there was I'm like wait a minute there's no one in there no one in there there was no one in that car did you see that's the first time I've yeah that's the first time I've ever seen a car uh and had literally no human was in that vehicle and I was like wow there's a bunch of them around Austin and there was a traffic jam in Austin where they all got together in an

intersection and no one knew what to do cuz all the robots were just like clogging up this intersection yeah uh like we a lot of that came from Pittsburgh too and you would see those kinds of cars but it always had a human in there but that was the first time I saw like a robot car driving around in in Austin and yes that creates there's a lot of dislocation that's possible and that's just the beginning it's going to be shipping it's going to be truckers I mean that was a big issue with the long

shoremen and the teamsters that were going to go on strike yeah please have some more water for you thank you you're welcome I mean that was that was a big part of one of their demands was that you know they see what's going on in China they see that they're using automation to completely control shipping yards that it's all done with machines and computers now and this is going to displace a lot of people this is something that Andrew Yang talked about in depth when he was running for president because he was talking about the

need for some kind of universal basic income to provide people with you know money and food and housing because jobs are going to be non-existent in a lot of different sectors a lot of different markets a lot of different things that have traditionally been done by people specifically driving driving is going to be a gigantic one it's all going to be done by computers yeah well I I mean universal guaranteed income I I'm I'm not sure I I don't know because you're going to have to have that's a lot of resources to provide a lot

of that and and that creates all kinds of other issues and dynamic but I'm not afraid of I'm not afraid of Technology but it's also acknowledging that there are going to be kinds of changes in those things and and and I'm a big believer in technology takes us into a more productive kinds of economy and they're going to help solve some of the challenges that we have in our society uh for those kinds of things but I think we have to find the perfect balance that we we don't stifle Innovation but we also but we

also have to remember that there are going to be people that might be left behind or they're not they're going to struggle I mean hey I'm I was mayor for 13 days and I live in a community that was left behind by some of those things and now the steel workers the steel workers I live across the street from the steel mill and then it was announced that nepon was buying us steel and basically all those Steel Workers were they were done you know they used euphemism saying well we're going to honor current label uh

excuse me Labor uh deals but that's a euphemism saying as soon as that's up you're done right and then that's going to be you know uh thousands of of union jobs and if you think it's going to be easy for those men and women to to pull down six figures or those kinds of an income it's like you know how un you know how insensitive to say well hey learn coding or whatever it's like well hey it's no it's not uh coding is useless anyway when AI learning to code is going to be useless yeah

exactly that's how quickly things change basally kind of like it's basically kind of like a you like good luck kind of thing well it's such a it's a dumb you too because even when they said learn to code like that was like you know they're saying could learn toode I'm not going to learn how to read but here's the thing even if you did that's how quickly things change even if you did now they're telling kids learning coding in universities is not necessarily going to be a pathway to a job because all coding is going

to be done by artificial intelligence yeah well but but you know I they never even told us that they were going to sell that and then I was a staffer sent me a picture on CNN saying that there're they're selling us and I'm like that and so I just went up on my roof and I had a video saying Hey I promise I'm going to do anything I can to to to jam that up and it's like that's what we did and we work with the white house and then suddenly all of that got jammed

up and suddenly I'm so surprised wink on wink but nepon found extra billions of dollars to make the kinds of upgrades to to secure a future for those facilities in the man Valley and and to me it's about following the union way of life you know to me steel is National Security and to me if you turn your back on the working uh Union families I mean that it's like this it's it's those are really hard to replace those things um and so for me two things are true at the same time you know the

our economy has evolved but when we have an opportunity to stand for the union way of life and we can't ever just out out uh Outsource you know our steel industry like that I refuse to do that so and that's why we're in that situation right now that it's like hey it's like that that's what's true about some of these industries one of the things that I was reading that was really crazy and I'd love you to find out how much of this is accurate Jamie one of the things was this guy was explaining how

scrap metal in the United States is shipped to China where they make things with it instead of making things here because and then we buy what they make with our scrap metal which seems to me kind of insane the dep of American manufacturing is a a significant problem that we faced and it was really highlighted during covid right where there wasn't Ships coming in because everything was kind of locked down for a while and people realize like hey so much of what we need particularly computer chips and and medicine so much of what we need

is being made overseas I I agree and then that's and that's why you know Congress came together and and uh President Biden led the whole chips the whole chips you know legislation and it's like we got to make our we got to make in America and it's like of course the future is in those kinds of Industries and those things so we got to we have to protect the American economy for that thing uh and and that's why that's a bipartisan kinds of of of a push for that and and the uh and covid that

relieved a lot of vulner arities um uh it's like where a lot of these things come from or uh so but but going going forward on that it it's like we can never Just Surrender that uh American manufacturing we can't assume and we can't allow that to turn uh completely outsourced no it's it would be horrible and it would be nice to bring things back and it's also you know one of the things we've been discussing a lot is that so many of the things that we need today like particularly phones are being made in

uh an unethical way like where we would never allow the working conditions that exist in these factories overseas where American corporations are having their products made in a way that you would never legally be able to do in America and yet they're doing this just to make more money and that yeah well I mean let's also talk about rare R rare rare stuff the Chinese have strategically just you know snapped up that that markets I mean that's really that's a significant security issue we have we're going to have to we're going to have to address

that and and thank thankfully we have identified of some large deposits I think it was Nevada but but rare earth kinds of minerals I mean that's a serious security issue because the new economy and a lot of the new technology is going to depend on those kinds of incredibly I think a lot of kinds of minerals that some people have never even heard in their life have no idea what that even why that's important right and then oil as well I mean we have significant oil reserves in the United States apparently we have more oil

than other countries do it's just a matter of accessing it so are you in favor of drilling for oil and fracking and all these different things to yeah 100% And and that that that that's that's what's also true is especially what happened after uh after um Russia in invaded and it was very clear that uh Europe had have Russians kind of by the short hairs that a lot of their Europe Europe was they were dependent on some of the uh Russian gas and that's a fact too and uh you know it's also it's also what's

true is that fossil fuels are part of our energy stack you now our energy has to evolve whether that's hydrogen or nuclear now even nuclear that conversation is reemerging you know I grew up in South Pennsylvania maybe you've heard of uh uh three Island sure three m Island I had to evacuate when that happen I was yeah I had to evacuate wow because they they could they could have turned you know we could have never returned I mean that was really tense uh now they're reopening that because micro Microsoft is going to buy the electricity

because now that's going to be nuclear to to run the the the data centers and those things it's an important conversation so if you are committed and I think it's you know I do believe uh that you you really have to make sure that nuclear is part of that conversation too because you know Z Z zero kinds of emissions and that's dependable kinds of energy that doesn't depend on the wind or the Sun but ironically some people pretend that uh you have to have a conversation so but you know for the foreseeable future that fossil

fuels are part of our stack and for me uh energy security is in it's very important um uh you know National Security I mean like if we can't if we can't power our economy uh then it's going to it's a significant risk for our economy in our American way and and you know now we I think we're a net exporter of energy uh that so I think that's a that's a good thing I think that's a great way to be uh and it's being honest about that and the path forward and and I think we

you know everything has to be on the table because we have to have a portfolio that produces the the kinds of energy that we're going to need to power our economy I another significant issue that a lot of people are concerned about is government interference in uh online censorship and what what was exposed during the Twitter files that the FBI had contacted the original owners of Twitter and prevented them or instructed them that the hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation was trying to get certain accounts banned that were talking about covid vaccines and the dangers

of side effects and what the actual research was showing and that this was a significant interference in the First Amendment and that these corporations that were running these social media companies were being directly influenced by the federal government and they were using this power to silence people from speaking out against certain things this is this is very concerning to a lot of people this idea that the government would infringe on our ability to be whistleblowers to expose issues that have been hidden from the American people because of greed and money and politics what are your

thoughts on that well of course I mean I'm I'm a I'm a a free speech kind of person uh and and I I think social media is is it's it's kind of difficult to control there there's a difference between misinformation or just outright lying um or it's an agenda of a foreign Nation that's trying to to sew all these kinds of of sentiments and those kind of of of of of things and and it's kind of difficult to to police all those things and it's a lot of it's an ongoing kind of of a of

a situation so uh but I'm always going to try to air on the side of free speech uh and then there's incredibly more and more kinds of platforms just like when I'm on right now talking about these kinds of things and I I'm not you know clutching my pearls if there's having conversations that I may or may not agree or disagree on what's being talked about those things but I think people are also there's also a level of responsibility to be uh you to discern what you're hearing it's like I think that's true or I

think that's trash or it's like those kinds of thing and just because always asking myself in what I'm read is that just true or is there a perspective where is it coming from who's behind those kinds of a thing uh so I mean it's it's a difficult kinds of what's the the appropriate kind of balance but it's absolutely uh it's also a fact that there are are Bad actors be behind some of those kinds of conversations or some of those kinds of uh misinformation as well too and absolutely incitement incitement is not free speech you

encouraging people uh for for um violence or those kinds of a thing I uh I mean it's it's it's a kind of it's dangerous yeah and but the what the fear is that the government was interfering when you had 51 Former Intelligence agents that were testifying that the hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation when it seems pretty clear that they knew that to not be true and that Twitter actually listened to these people and they did block that and it did probably have a significant impact on the 2020 election yeah well but the other thing

that had a significant impact was uh in 2020 uh uh I forget his his name but he had to investigate you know Clinton's about the email yeah like you know two weeks out that was like the ultimate October surprise as well and that undeniable that had a significant impact as well too that was the 2016 right yeah it Absolut it absolutely did as well too so uh I mean that's why there's both sides and they have many agendas to suppress some kinds of a thing or to to bring something to the front and it's undeniable

that it can have an impact on that as well too I never went down either of those you know rabbit holes whether it was the Clinton emails or if it was the hunter Biden's kind of of laptop uh so but it hasn't really changed overall the dynamic that in our Cycles the last three Cycles it's really it's about for me it's about a referendum on what we want a vision for America is it a trump kinds of a of a vision or do we have an alternative and I've always been very clear it's going to

be Incredibly Close and it's going to be incredibly at times very divisive and and and here we are now and it's still back to a coin toss and I've always predicted that it would be you know even back to 2016 because is you know we're really going to have a lot settled out before this election it's going to take America in a very two Stark and distinctive kinds of directions what do you think about Elon musk's idea of creating a government efficiency agency well I hey I I flagged um when musk uh when musk got

involved I I I flagged that anyone can look online I can say that it's like well you know uh endorsements and and the and surr see uh doesn't really mount for much it doesn't count for much a lot in sometimes but but um I mean that was a that was a significant and he's getting involved and he's showing up at those kinds of uh of events I mean you in some sense I've said this publicly that he's even a bigger kinds of star than than Trump can be and for some people in Pennsylvania like that's

Tony Stark right he's involved in undeniably kinds of of important things like SpaceX or he was one of the original uh uh Charter he was invol in the charter of open uh he was involved in that too uh so I mean that's that's significant and and I don't agree with some of his some of his views on politics but it's undeniable that he can move the needle in some sense of of convince some people that it's like hey if if he says that he's the the right choice for president that that's going to that's going

to that's going to resonate in in some in some circles in Pennsylvania and and I've I've warned that uh and acknowledging it it's just like that that's it's just like hey I I know people and they admire him and you may not agree with his politics but you you really it's it's impossible to ignore that he is going to have a level of of of an impact on that yeah but what do you think about the idea of trying to make the government more efficient and that this hasn't been audited before and of course I

hey I'm to any kinds of ideas and all those kinds of thing on all of that uh uh one side doesn't have a monopoly on good ideas or important kinds of issues that that are ma that are matter to them so uh and and it's like the choices and the kinds of things and how he's chosing to participate especially very personally in in Pennsylvania I'm like hey here's where we are that's part of the dynamic here you know calling it out and acknowledging that I'm not moving against that I'm not criticizing whatever it's just like

hey it's happening uh so uh and that I think that's part of why things continue to get tighter and and that that's that's kind of here we where we are well I think what a lot of people are excited about with Trump is this possibility of change the the Elon Musk Edition is one of them RFK Jr is another one this idea of making America healthy again removing additives from foods that have shown to be toxic that are illegal in other countries I mean this is I think a significant issue that shouldn't be a partisan

issue this should be something that we'd all should be concerned with why do we have ingredients in our food that is illegal in a bunch of European countries because they found out that these things are dangerous I agree look you know go to McDonald's in in like the UK you know the the french fries has three ingredients potato salt and I think maybe oil and then look at look at what's in America side on that it's much different I hey I support that if anything if if anything you know more of uh and I know

I know your city that we're in now Austin has an amazing food kinds of scene and and again you know if anything more of the crunchy more liberal side were on part of the whole organic kinds of a thing and more impurity and things I I don't think that's an issue and and honestly I don't think that that's going to be the kind of mantle that somebody like you know RFK Jr that's not his uh so I I think having a more pure and safe and abundant kinds of food in in our country I absolutely

support that and you know I'm I'm selective what I what I uh feed I feed my children I mean when we were you know when I was a kid it was like Vita you know like hey now we have real cheese or did you ever have uh like Ecto Cooler like that green like anifree kind of color of highy and some of the kinds of foods that that we had when I was a kid um that would be Unthinkable kind of now and I think I think the quality of our food and and kinds of

more impure um I think that's that's been an ongoing conversation uh and uh organic can't become elitist it can't be it can't be too expensive and and I fully support making it more and more um more more pure and more safe on that Avail and I would absolutely I would celebrate if if I could buy the same french fries that you get in the UK that it's like I think there should if you don't need more than three ingredients I have a buddy of mine who lives in Australia and uh he came over to America

and he loves Quarter Pounders in Australia cuz he said Quarter Pounders in Australia it's grass-fed meat that's just fried with cheese in a bun and he said he got a quarter pounder over here he's like what the is this he said it tastes like it was just it was Bland and it didn't tast was it a royal with cheese I don't know what they call it in Australia but he said it's grass-fed beef you get like you know they're not even feeding their cows grain well you know a lot of the the the grass-fed beef

in in in our nation are coming from Australia I mean which is crazy yeah that that's that's a fact and I'm very Pro pro-american Rancher uh well not only that it's it's really up because you could make it a product of America if you butcher it here so if you import cattle from Australia say and then you bring it to America and then you cut it up and then package it because you've cut it up and packaged it is now a product of America so you could write that on the label you know I had

uh Will Harris who runs White Oak pastures which is a regenerative farm this guy spent 20 years and Untold dollars changing an industrial farm that his family had and turning it into a regenerative farm and in doing so provided people with a much more natural and healthy choice and he's also done a great job of exposing these practices yeah I mean grass grass fed beef I mean I think that's I think that's very in some sense I mean that's that that absolutely supports Better Health I mean yeah I was I uh I followed before he

even appeared on your on your podcast uh uh Sean Baker yeah yeah you know like uh carnivore and and you know even those kinds of insights helped me personally and allowed me to kind of drop some of dropped some weight through all those things and you know it's like that's an important conversation too it's like you know and but but Democrats some people think that we're declared a war on on hamburgers and and beef but we're definitely going to lose that uh they're going to lose that if if that really becomes part of that and

I uh I don't think that's Democrats I think that's very wealthy people that have a financial interest in feeding people fake meat that's what I think it is and I think they've captured the system I uh I said it it it pains me to agree with with uh DeSantis you know because they passed the you know ban in that in Florida it it pains me to agree with him but it's like I mean I would never feed I would never feed that slop to to my kids when you can buy you know quality American grass

fed American beef like I mean that's that's what I purchased that I used that at Costco uh I buy the three uh pack of it and uh and and I my my oldest son he knows how to to prepare like his own ribey and and now he's you know makes that a part of uh like a I think it's like a healthy kinds of u a diet yeah for sure um what other issues do you think we should discuss before we wrap this up is there anything else that's on your mind that do you think

is significant that needs to be discussed oh before you wrap up uh I I I well I I think we have a situation whether it's the situation on on on Israel or those uh there's there's a lot happening about the the election right now but but uh uh it's really a strange place in our nation right now but I promise you it's going to be depending on whenever people hear this conversation our world's going to be about to change or maybe has have changed uh and so I just hope though I just hope though that

we're going to be able to respond in a way for an oral kinds of transfer of power and we are going to be heading into a more peaceful and a more productive and collaborative kind of uh direction throughout that but we're an incredibly divisible place right now um and uh I I just want to be part of a conversation to make sure that that we can be more constructive but it's right now we're kind of uh it's it's a difficult place right now and we're coming down to a coin TOS election yeah I agree I

hope we uh can all relax and work together cooperatively yeah well listen man thank you for being here I really appreciate it thank you for taking the time to come here and talk it's been great to get to know you and have a conversation with you oh hey well hey thank you for having it's it's as a fan it's great to kind of uh visit and uh so thanks for having me so my pleasure all right best of luck to you thank you all right bye everybody [Music]