Bate-papo Informal Com Narcisista Diagnosticada Spirit Narc (Tessa)

foreign I'm so happy to be here we're gonna do um live with Tessa Spirit narc who is a twice diagnosed narcissist with histrionic traits we had a bit of an issue on YouTube a technical issue so we're just gonna do it here which is fine yay Spirit Arc is here so I'm just gonna wait for my sister to join my sister just joined so I can help her okay give me just a second so I can let people know what's going on all right so things are working here just fine now I don't remember how

to make my sister a moderator Eddie do you remember what we did the other time I'm touching your name and nothing is happening wait I add as a moderator there we go okay we're set okay whoo so guys this is a moderated live um I want everybody to be nice and respectful I'm really excited about this live I've been following Spirit narc for a while now and I have a gazillion questions for her um all right my sister is the moderator and we can get started where's Spirit here we go so Instagram is kind of

not request to join wrong person requesting to join Spirit can you request to join I'm calling you spirits because like nothing is happening when someone's crying someone's like please work already this is gonna be in English and I'm going to Aha there we go I'm gonna translate it later for my for my Brazilian YouTube channel but you can ask questions in Portuguese and we can translate okay okay so she should be joining in a little bit yay yay can you hear me I can hear you but it's like super low I don't know if it's

just low for me or if it's low for everybody you look stunning foreign dude I literally cannot hear a word you're saying let me people give me some feedback if you're hearing her because for me it's like I can't hear anything at all just like a little weird fuzz okay I think it's obvious it's not it's not working let's try it again I think guys we have some technical issues but it's going to be a great life hang on in there okay people can't hear so it wasn't just me so we'll try it again hang

in there y'all have a bit of patience we have so many interesting questions okay let's try this again let's try this again and how was my my connection you guys is is my um is my image okay is the sound okay are things working for you guys as well hey say something can you hear you can't hear anything at all hold up let me try what about can you hear me now what's going on guys oh wait I heard something that's what that's my boyfriends and husbands are [Laughter] [Music] yay for the hubby Richard Richard

is your name right you rock Richard we all need a husband who thinks man I have one who thinks as well I do want to try and see if I can turn that okay give me the comments what do you want to turn off yeah I can hear you now I can hear you now right okay man resiliency it's all about healing and facing challenges absolutely absolutely I love the attitude man you are beautiful you look stunning you look stunning gorgeous thank you so much for these earrings specifically for this live yes yes I want

to get into that because I think there is a lot to be said about that and um all of this stuff is stigmatized right but you know it's it's high time that we look at it in a different way and in the name of all the cluster bees that I have tried to love in my life some of them I had to go no contact with you know what that's like but I did not have to go into contact with other ones and this is in the name of all of those you know who are

human beings right um yeah that's really nice to like put that narrative out there it's like hey this is possible you know like some people you know for anybody regardless of diagnosis it may not work out exactly right yeah exactly exactly but the truth of the matter is um when we start you know us victims because I mean I'm not saying that people aren't victimized by by other people's untreated mental health issues that's not what I'm saying but I'm saying it's not black and white right I'm not into the whole empaths here and monstrous narcissists

there thing it's just to hurt people honestly and you know yeah that's how I try to see it I mean I've had my own relationships just like implode in the past and to me it just felt like a tragedy because I think like deep down everyone just wants to be safe and loved even people with MPD and you know they just don't know how to get there and like same with codependence yeah just everybody and it's tragedy When people's defense mechanisms yeah exactly and and the that's the thing I'm coming from that place of like

I've been on this healing Journey for a very long time I have a narcissistic mother we're actually no contact right now she's one of the people that it did not work with um but you know with other people that did the work and I I was for whatever reason because they're somewhere on this spectrum where this is possible or because they had a lot of losses in their lives or whatever reason they put in the work and the truth of the matter is when we look into whom why am I in this toxic relationship what's

going on and we find the narcissistic thing we're coming from a place of God I wish I could love these people I wish it could work right yeah and I've more and more you know like I get people in my DMs and that's definitely been more of the vibe that I've been getting from people is just like God damn it why didn't this why perfect so sorry I was looking down because I have a client who who has narcissistic personality disorder and she's like where are you I can't find you you're not on YouTube they're

like wait we're on Instagram we're on Instagram okay so let's start out with you just letting everybody know who you are um where people can find you what your purpose is with all of this you know and and then we'll get started with the gazillion questions and whenever you feel uncomfortable or you want to go in a different direction it's really about listening to whatever you want to bring to the table okay if you and I might have to pee in the middle of the life because I pee like a gazillion times I'm just throwing

that out there oh thank God oh good oh I feel less awkward then so go on introduce yourself uh yeah so my name is Tessa for those for those no I am turning 25 this August and I've been diagnosed with MVP twice um if you're interested you can find me on uh I used to be on Tick Tock but I'm revamping that but I'm on YouTube and Instagram at Spirit mark and um honestly I first started my journey just wanting uh I went through a narcissistic collapse which basically is just the destruction of your defenses

and I was in a lot of pain so I started honestly just wanting to feel better like oh I can use psychology to harness like control again of my mind but then it like turned into something bigger so like now I feel like I'm here to honestly as I've been feeling help other people understand either their Partners or themselves and like make this world I don't know like a [ __ ] better place I've started believing in reincarnation you know I've been spiritual and like I feel like I don't want to come back to a

world that is just I hate this world it's really been interesting because like you know I started out how can I stop suffering like it was all about like my feelings and it did turn into something bigger where I just want to really really help I think like we're having a mental health crisis in this world and I think you know narcissistic traits and NPD are a part of it okay awesome yeah so Spirit narc I heard that you gave up on Tick Tock but I guess you're getting back to that Tick Tock is toxic

it's like I don't know man like you know you know abilities and I I feel so proud that I can say that out loud now um but you know it's not a place to be yeah I can't do it like I feel like I'm sharing information and nobody likes it so yeah yeah absolutely and you guys I gotta say from the outside um it's it's it's wonderful to see communities for cluster bees it's like so so necessary it's kind of so obvious you know what I'm saying yeah when I came on this platform there really

wasn't one I I started like a year and a half ago and I noticed that there were a few accounts here and there but there wasn't really like a sense of like we're in this together and I've seen that build over the last year and it's been incredible and I think that like it is helping everyone because you know oh I see like a lot of Hearts people are giving but like the more that people can heal people still and you know everybody will be having less issues with each other and that's yeah yeah exactly

and a specific thing is like um I think a couple of things are necessary so I think it's important for cluster bees to have their own space so they can talk to one another you know in in a non-stigmatizing space like I'm autistic and for me to talk to autistic people it's like such a relief but yeah and at the same time I think this needs to be done the victim channels you know with the horrible monstrous narcissists you know what I'm saying we're on our journey you're on your journey I think this conversation needs

to be had because then you can explain how your mind works and I can ask questions and I can explain how my how my mind works so they can be less lonely they can be more like oh wait I think these people are humans you know you know coming from the other side of it I've had also 's and like the other side I've seen that I had a five-year relationship with my ex who was a codependent and had that it was it was that Dynamic yeah so I've seen all sides of it and I

totally uh get it and I also see like similarities in the types of traumas and stuff so I think this is definitely a conversation worth having like you know instead of seeing people as like enemies I even have like a little highlight reel on my Instagram and it's so cheesy so cheesy but I just hope that people read it and yeah yeah talking to everybody and Anyone who reads it it's like wait a second I don't have narcissistic personality disorder but this kind of hits home hmm you know and um I was gonna say something

else but I forgot so let's get started with the questions narcissist is here hey Jacob okay okay so um okay so I guess the first question is well that's a question that you're used to answering a gazillion times but I think it's going to be really useful for this conversation how did you have your narc crash what is an art crash um how did you find out about your diagnosis how did that go about so I had an involuntary neuropsych exam um you know based on like my parents wanting me to do it that kind

of was my first diagnosis they like sat me down suggested that to me and I obviously like didn't want to listen to people saying that um and shortly after that was in December 2020 and then in January 2021 literally a month later I thought I'd turn my back on all this stuff and then I had a psychedelic I was doing drugs a lot to cope with stuff and I had this psychedelic experience where I kind of overdosed um and I had ego dissolution which for somebody with NPD is kind of the most horrific thing you

could ever experience um and I think that it booted me out of that part of myself which was like the most developed part of me and into like the undeveloped insides and that was so scary and I I woke up the next day dissociated and you know dissociation if you guys know anything about that it can be debilitating like you feel ungrounded and that you know I was so used to like being I'm gonna be honest for managing everything about my life and myself and because I was so dissociated and I had such a bad

messed up experience I could no longer perform properly I felt like humiliated and then I isolated and that's when my sense of self like fully fell apart I feel like it was just like a everything went up in flames and like it just kept unraveling and to be honest it's still unraveling like it just was never the same after that um and it was okay and uh so I I guess for for people who are listening um essentially what you're saying is that narcissism is a defense right so there's something underneath it and so long

as it's working then I guess you can deal with things in uh less painful ways that yeah I think really what it is at the core and this is pretty sad but like you put a child through too much trauma and [ __ ] and like the only thing left to do is really wall up like that to like even stay alive to like make sense of the world to like continue functioning because like I realized I would have to like move out of my parents house and become an adult and like you know you

can't just like collapse under that weight of trauma so the defenses do come up and they do form and that's you know kind of how that happens and I also believe identity issues are a big part of that like from the get-go the child is not having a good relationship with their parents somehow like something's not forming properly so by the time they're an adult it's already so much you know this sense of self is always and it's it's good that you say that because like with my conversation with um with clients and also with

Jacob it's like a lot of people have this impression that um narcissists are born these demons and I'm trying to educate people about trauma and that stuff that doesn't just pop up out of nowhere most of the time I've never met someone with a personality disorder who did not go through trauma maybe it's possible I've heard that it's possible in some cases I just just personally not ever met somebody like that what's your take yeah and I I'm I'm suspicious like for me even the people who say they don't have trauma have just repressed it

so deeply that like they don't even exactly they do and it's Infinity April is here I follow you too oh look at that I'm gonna live on that recognition right there yeah and so um so essentially you're telling me that you that someone just asked why is she wearing in Portuguese why is she wearing a um what's God what's it called in English well shrooms on your on your earrings but that's why I do so much because like psychedelics destroyed my sense of self but it also a different type of psychedelics healed it I feel

like a lot and I don't say heal is in cure I say healed as in it it's like I'm by no means like cured of anything I still suck for a lot I still go through a lot but my God like that's what I'm putting together I'm like this changed my life like really there's studies that you know psychedelics and you know psilocybin in particular can open up you know Embassy can open up it takes you back to like the childhood period where you are open to learning new languages and things and like I do

think I do think it has a power yeah yeah I know and I know it's also another stigmatized thing but the reality is um oftentimes when people are looking you know they're doing drugs what they're looking for is a different experience of reality and that's kind of looking for a spiritual experience they're trying to access different parts of themselves and something like psychedelics can definitely bring stuff up that you I mean in your self-state that you're always maintaining right because you have a fairly rigid experience of who you are because you're stuck in that same

self-state right you don't access the other parts right yeah oh my God yeah it sometimes felt to me like um taking shrooms was the only way to escape my self-construct it was super scary because like I reached a point of self-awareness where I started feeling trapped because like I I could tell like this is a pattern um and it goes really deep and we can discuss like the difference like the specifics but um I started feeling like scared like because I realized how trapped out it was like that's how [ __ ] up this [

__ ] is I say to people like even if you're aware you have MPD and you want to feel better is still like impossible to escape this disorder it feels like sometimes like where do you go what do you do like there's not many treatments out there yeah and I would also say that if you've been stuck in a self-state that you're you're walled in and you've been that way since childhood you don't have the resiliency to deal with other stuff yet so I think part of the thing that gives the impression that you're not

healing and I just gotta say from the outside as someone who's been watching you guys for a couple of years for me you guys are healing it's just it's not going to be fast yeah I I slow process because at the core of it yeah you can't just I mean people always say oh my God you know people with NPD can be so maladaptive so toxic you know acting out in this in that way so they just want to take that away but you can't just like you know somebody you can't survive like that they're

protecting a very injured course so if you want it's really a slow process of like replacing maladaptive defenses with like new coping mechanisms you know like you can't just like strip it all away you have to like take one maladaptive Behavior way and replace it with like you know yeah and it's painful because now like before you earn aware now you're aware that you have these maladaptive behaviors but you literally have no coping mechanism so now you're aware of it and you don't know what to do with it so it's like damn it just like

you go online right like people have gone online they're like okay like I've had my narcissistic collapse I'm in hell now how do I like help me and then like all that pops up is the stigma and it's frustrating it is you know it's frustrating but you guys are doing a lot to change that okay I'm gonna shut up and let you talk because you're the interview you're the interviewee but it's just so much to be said about this but go on you know I was actually like seriously okay I'm super excited me too I'm

really happy that you agreed to this it was you know it took a while for us to finally be able to find a a time slot that would work for the both of us but I think that it's okay I figured I figured I watch your channel I I understand that you go through stuff and I just want you to feel comfortable so I was like whenever she's comfortable and it's good for me as well then it's gonna happen and it's gonna be good you know I want everyone to just feel comfortable okay so let's

get started with the questions we already got into a few of them but let's get so there's a lot of questions here could you well I guess you've already kind of just kind of described what a collapse is but do you want to say anything else about that before we go on um that that um I just want to debunk a bit of stigma that I sometimes see online where they're like you know super dangerous I I think that like that's a sad way to look at it I don't know I think that when I

was like in the midst of it I did get angrier for a while I was like Angry depressed I didn't just have depression I was like depressed but it was because I was like scared it's a scary experience it really feels like you are being annihilated because like your sense of self is falling apart and if you think of your sense of self as like the core of who you are the idea of that falling apart it's like you're where like where am I sliding into like Abyss like what's gonna happen I mean and it's

Terror like it can be so [ __ ] scary so I just wanted to ask yeah I I want to try and give like a conception of what it's like to go through but it's really not easy to explain um it's definitely like yeah I think I think there's a lot of that like I think all of us whoever all of us who are looking for healing of any kind there is a Dark Night of the soul and I I watched one of your lives where you're like you know the thing with me is I

don't have faith because if it's not evidence-based then I'm like I'm not going to believe in it I don't trust it and the reality is um if if we knew what to do with ourselves we wouldn't be unhappy and depressed would we so there's got to be something beyond what we know beyond what we can see and I I remember I watched one of your stories um this was months ago and you said that you were you were having a behavior that you used to have in the past uh where you would get validation but

your inner voice said this is Icky oh my God because I used to do this this is coming out to be frank with you you know I got a lot of you know self-esteem juice as Jacob likes to call it from like my looks and like going out with men and like listen that but because I had my collapse I started there was this new voice this new fragment that I think I'd repressed yeah speaking up like hey you know like I'm not comfortable like I don't like this person this doesn't feel right because I

used to just be able to do it for attention and it felt great and I that's all I it was a very Hollow but like rewarding experience but now like this other part of me was like I'm not like I want to go home I don't like this man like this doesn't feel right you know like I was like what the hell but I was like oh my God like this is whatever this is you know I think it's whatever's left of like my inner child I guess or like my inner self whatever happened yeah

I I feel I feel that it's like there's a difference between being walled in and not having the other parts you just don't have you know you're just walled in you're dissociated you're fragmented the dissociation is meant to separate you from these other parts but once you start looking into it I mean you have a voice why wouldn't you why would it have an inner voice you are a human aren't you [Laughter] they'll be all step back then on me now okay we'll pass that one for now I I really feel though like at the

when my like disorder was at like the height of itself self-aware I feel like that the only voice that was speaking was my ego because like all the other parts and this is part of the problem it's identity issues all the other parts have been super undeveloped so healing is almost the most terrifying thing because you have to face your fragmented self and it's not going to be pretty and it hasn't been but like there is a light side to it where I am starting for the first time ever that I can even remember like

even all the way back to four years old I feel like alive for the first time and that's it's yeah and it comes with little bits other times I feel like a hollow like I freak out and I'm like oh my God like it comes and it goes but like I do sense like there is this there's a place you know that I'm getting to and it's super it's the most sad beautiful it's like bitters beautiful it's beautiful to hear that I also believe that a lot of things is just like training and gaining resiliency

and gaining practice in things so it's like you know I'm sure you'll be saying other things in two years time or in six years time or in 10 years time you'll be looking back and be like dude I used to think like this damn I wasn't immature I literally already you do that I am looking back at my password see so growth is possible honestly people are like okay obviously it's gonna be slow and stuff but at the same time have you seen codependence heal super fast and learn how to set boundaries and learn how

to change that it's so I've taken years over a decade to like not have diarrhea when I had to say no to somebody because I was people pleasing all the time you know I always end up dating partners that are like that so it's almost just it's something that I've always been like fascinated about because it's the other side of that exactly okay let's get let's get into some more questions here um okay well what's it like living with NPD what are the things that you want the world to understand oh man um honestly it

feels a lot of the time like you're living in some sort of Twilight Zone yeah I'm gonna be honest like you know the Twilight Zone The the show it's a freaky place in my head like it's not I mean never even describe it um I I once described like the most prominent feeling is like loneliness but like it's a loneliness where you feel like you're sitting somewhere high up in the clouds like floating past the moon and deep down below you see like all these people like having fun and laughing and chatting and there's warmth

and light and you're like well that's not I'm not a part of that that's not for me but you know I'm up here I'm above it all you know but like you a part of you is always just really like deeply sad looking down at you know on the grounds where apparently you know all these people seem lesser but at the same time they are there's so much warmth and I don't know it's it's a very lonely experience and other times it's a very trapping experience um I think that when you're unself-aware there's you don't

feel trap as much because you don't really know what's going on but once everything breaks down you realize how hard this is to get out of because like um I think one of the things that's not really talked about what it feels like to live with this is um it's really hard to emotionally learn or internalize anything like about yourself about other people like you know my my current like my boyfriend he's he's experienced this with me where like um we will have like a really loving night and then like I'll wake up in the

morning and I'm like super annoyed at him I don't even know why sometimes and I just have like no emotion towards him and it's like I can't hold on to um excuse me like a solid like it's and it's that way with myself so like I constantly feel like I'm in some sort of bizarre like incoherent existence and like um I don't know I feel like there's something as well with like time Distortion it's just very it's like it's Twilight Zone experience really nothing like really seems to be coherent in the long term like I

sometimes like for example you know I can gain like a hundred followers on like Monday and by Friday I'm like I've been stag video for so long this is like insane like I'm so bitter I hate this and now go look back through my photos and I see this screenshot and I'm like that was Monday you know there's no way like it feels like it's been a month you know it's like it's it's very bizarre and very fragmented um when you really get down to the root of it and I think that like um there's

also a feeling of like that I've been hitting now where um I feel like I'm doing all of these behaviors that should lead to connection with people such as like being vulnerable quote unquote like sharing very deep stuff and this and that but yeah I never seen actually like connect to the other person in a lot of ways and like the person remains replaceable and it's like okay yeah I just had this like great conversation with them but you know if I didn't see him tomorrow I'll just go find someone else and it's like what

am I missing like what am I not doing like you know and it's just it's it's God I don't know it's it's a mess in there and sometimes it feels like um I don't know on the really bad days it feels like you are in hell inside your head that's that's the best I can describe it as um and the how would you describe the oscillations between grandiosity and the vulnerable States how does that happen for you um well before I was self-aware it happened a lot less I remember this one experience because like you

know vulnerability is like the really um the dark side of the triggers where you can hit like this feeling of nothingness right like I remember before I was self-aware um I had this one moment with my ex where like he wanted to invite me over for the entire day and he picks me up in the morning and we were heading over to his house and suddenly I had this feeling for a split second like oh my god I'm an empty shell like I don't know what to like give I don't know like I feel like

I was like worried about how much I had to like manually like exist or like feel like I had a real personality around him but then I was like I had a loss for it and for like one Split Second I remember hitting like Rock Bottom immediately and being like I'm nothing you know like I'm nobody and then immediately like my brain covered that up and all of a sudden I found like everything wrong with like his house his situation suddenly it was like oh well you you made this so boring like you know this

and that and then I like left and it was so bizarre like I hit like the bottom and immediately bounced back and suddenly it was like external and that's a lot of my experience once that breaks down like now that I'm self-aware it um it turned into a lot more of like an up and down because there wasn't like that immediate like protection so you're actually stronger even though it hurts more oh man yo but it is you literally couldn't take it before that's that's what it is you literally couldn't take it before yeah I

guess so um I think that yeah I just didn't know how I I think that um where I'm at right now it almost feels like I've finally self-realized as well that the the bad like the darker side the vulnerability is also a bit delusional I mean like it'll tell you stuff like you know uh you know you should not go out of the house um until you're like less fragmented you know um you have to like be more of a real person because people are gonna find out you're a fraud if you go out right

now and you go meet up with someone they're gonna see in like 10 seconds that you have barely anything besides like five personality points to like share you know like because you really build your outer self right it's like Oh I'm a musician you know I do this and that but then like once those are run through it does feel like this terrifying sense of like oh my God like you know I have nothing else you know and I think that's also part of that is not really knowing your inner self or even getting to

develop a coherent in yourself and part of it is the thought that I think is delusional about it though is like you don't deserve because that's what the ego will tell you you don't deserve to go out until you reach this point it's like I I don't want to subscribe to that [ __ ] anymore and the grandiosity usually covers that up that's why like when you're unselfware you don't have to face that pain you don't have to face those fears because yeah you're just like oh yeah you know like I don't know it's very

safe because I I still remember what it felt like being able to just walk around and just assume that if something else if something went wrong it wasn't me I knew it wasn't me because like you know I'm yeah you know they're left the the what you can tell nowadays I mean that's so powerful you can tell that the vulnerability is [ __ ] as well I mean the messages right uh the tells you to do with it I think that it is fair to say you know to validate the level of sure suffering that

comes from the identity um but I think that it's not constructive to let it win and tell you that like either you Shore up and say you know like I don't know um the thing is grandiosity is really nice but if you go too deep into that one um it ruins relationships you know it takes off and it becomes like this untameable like part of yourself so yeah there's a middle ground where you just want to say like no I I still deserve to enjoy myself and my life I don't have to just wait around

to be like up here or something it's the high standards yeah yeah in a family systems and that's something that I I've seen really good um results with and um I've been teaching that type of Parts work here in Brazil uh for a few years and one of the concepts in interfamily systems is that when we're so fragmented that we split when you're splitting you do not access the wise part of you you don't access anything else so that becomes your entire reality right but it's not that it doesn't exist it's it's just somewhere else

it's just somewhere else I know that yeah oh my God I mean several different people with MPD have described this I mean for Jacob he said I think it was like shifting tectonic plates and like whatever's at the Forefront is just there the others are just I because like yeah it really is like that you know like if you are in a self-state where you're just loving with your partner and this and that it's genuine but then like you can also immediately like go to just like utter apathy and that also feels genuine and you

don't even remember the other self-state in which you were feeling love for them and it's like holy [ __ ] everything's so disconnected how can you so one of the signs that you just you just showed us that a sign of healing as well is the fact that you can question the shitty messages that you give yourself in your vulnerable state so that means you're actually creating like a bridge between one fragment and the other fragment because now one fragment can hear the other fragment even if it's just like a distant whisper you know yeah

absolutely like my ego death kind of like honestly just it's back by the way for a while and like in that time period other parts of me had the chance to see the light and develop and grow stronger and one of those parts was like this piece that I called The Observer part of me that um can regulate it grew strong enough to regulate like hey are you sure this thought is true you should reality check it you know whether it's about because like I still get insulted all the time too that's another thing like

um I think I I remember one time I went to like Applebee's with my boyfriend and I made this joke to the server and they didn't laugh at all and I like immediately like became enraged because I was super triggered and like you either question am I just not funny am I just the worst uncharismatic whatever or like you think to yourself man he doesn't even deserve to like whatever these two sides like it was bad I was telling my boyfriend by the end of this it was really bad I don't know if I should

say this I was like it was really bad to that extreme of fantasy stream of like whatever and my boyfriend was able to like get me to a place where he was like look you know it's like almost 12 Tessa like 12 at night like maybe he's just tired he's working a night shift maybe he didn't even hear you properly yeah this is truly about you you know go here or here you know but that part of you takes a long time to like develop it's only been recently that I've ever yeah it does take

a long time to develop but it does like it's it's a it's a training thing it's just I know that it it seems impossible because the self-states are completely true and you you do believe them you just feel like the roller yeah that's reality you don't question you're long for the ride and really anything that comes up it just has control over you and that's why self-awareness is so I used to regret it a lot I used to miss my grandiosity I I still like grandiosity but like I used to miss being unself-aware because it

was so much less painful right but then I realized I didn't have more control at all I actually have more now I don't have to let you know just I just act you know and maybe I was acting in a way that didn't actually get me what I wanted to make a choice you know yeah what's the best thing to do to get what I want you know maybe it's not the immediate perfect perfect then just creating that space between feeling and reacting is maturity that's literally what maturity is right so a couple of things

that about the self-states and stuff um my sister has she told me not the one that's here my other sister told me that in the past she's like cluster B flavor let's put it that way not officially diagnosed anything she she shared that she used to use men for validation and you know she used her appearance and stuff because that was easy and um sure oh my God can I say something it was to me so I don't have to have an identity I can just dudes I can look good and then if they said

oh what do you think about this I just read them and tell them whatever they wanted to hear because I was lazy well no really lazy I'm just being hard on myself I know I like had no coherent identity so I was like oh easy uh here and then I was like just keep it yeah this you know I have to like have a genuine authenticity to bring to the table and I didn't want one at that time which is also really concerning yeah and what reminded me of of you know her experience reminded me

of what of what you see and how you describe it but she did say something that I think was really valid she said you know what an inner family system says this as well if if you have a behavior a self-state or a part that takes on an extreme role it's because that's part of your authentic self but it's just taking on an extreme role so she says I think the reason I use my my body and my appearance is because I am sensual and I am sexy and I am someone who likes that that's

crazy because I'm trying to figure that in terms of myself does that ring true I have a really complicated relationship with that side of myself so I'm not sure I think there's more healing to be done but it makes a lot of sense I mean in relation to that I always felt like when I was in my depressed state that like my ego self was like a fraud like oh like people would say oh my God you're so charming and like I would go out and people would walk away being like Oh I could talk

to Tessa for hours and I mean while I was just like you know I felt like that part of me was a fraud but maybe it's because I'm just disconnected from it that might be a genuine piece of who I am now it's just like I I don't know none of yeah as you say none of the self-states are connected it's really that problem that I think makes up a lot of issues with cluster bees and relationships and you also said something in one of your lives about like it's it's not about killing off any

parts of you or judging your defense mechanisms that kept you safe right it's it's about one honoring the fact that you are alive imagine if you hadn't had your grandiosity imagine if you hadn't had certain defenses for you to deal with stuff exactly exactly I wouldn't be oh man I I sorry I saw someone in the comments saying like can you tell her or can you tell someone it's not possible to be self-aware whenever we gotta get rid of that myth what did somebody say I I've been addressing this for years but I don't know

what the heck else I have to say but go on I just don't want to listen okay it is hard for people with cluster B personalities to become self-aware yes I will validate that and it's because there's so much of a chance that if they face that they will become dysfunctional or honestly suicidal and who wants to do that to themselves who wants to push themselves there nobody right it's scary so people run the other way but it is possible and it's possible to live through it and come out the other side and honestly um

you still have the core like it's not like you're suddenly not a narcissist anymore you still struggle every day but you have like you have self-awareness all self-awareness is is knowing why you do what you do why you feel what you're feeling like that's it come on people like there's no I don't understand I know like it's hard for people because a lot of the people in their lives are not self-aware it's not just that it's also that it's it's the information like when I started this this this this work like a long time ago

I used to say the same thing but it's because there were none of you guys online and and the yeah it's true and the diagnosed narcissist that there were online was like Sam back and he's like we are an empty shell we aren't alien I'm not a true human damn sure me too first I found when I was like I was I'd had my you know ego dissolution I was super scared I was like stressed I was like okay maybe I'll take a second look at that diagnosis I found his work and I had like

panic attacks honestly he was like there's no zombies and this and that I was like back in my bed I was like oh my God because I didn't know like but I've come so far from that point where I'm like I don't I don't automatically trust what I don't even read stuff on the internet anymore I'm just trying to like carve my own paste but it's still the place of you you're building a sense of self because it's your own path you know yeah and it also doesn't yeah and I want to throw out there

that like it can be helpful for people who who may be like you know that type of mentality can be helpful for people who struggle to like leave it an abusive partner of any kind because it's like people I I haven't talked about this problem earlier with someone you know people feel like oh because my partner has trauma like I like want I have to like I can't leave like you know it's almost like they have to be you have to see yourself as evil in order to like walk away but it's just it's hard

um yeah I hope that makes sense I don't know where I was going with that but I just want to say like a lot of that information yeah this the stigma that's out there actually keeps people unhealed because it keeps them in the anger hatred part of what is actually like grief you're grieving the pain of a you know relationship that didn't work out and you're just posting hatefully every day because you're stuck in the anger phases yeah of grief you know I tell people like I get the anger I get you want to kill

people I definitely understand homicidal ideation yeah oh hey Judy you're so cute you're so delicious one of the questions you said yes yes I have seven so you know so yeah like going back to what we were saying like a lot of my of my clients I deal with people that came from narcissistic family systems and I help them individuate right think for themselves and and build a sense of self as a a as adults and stuff and of course A lot of them go through the whole I want to kill everybody's stage because that

is a defense it's part of The Grieving but it's the way they can let go of people right and that's that's a healthy that is a it doesn't sound healthy but it actually is okay to go through that it is completely valid perfect it's just if you don't move on from that phrase yeah you're hurting exactly exactly and also I I think I think that the the deal is I wish we could normalize two things in the same sentence which is like dude if my inner Compass tells me that I need to go no contact

with someone or this is myself from someone for whatever reason then I need to be able to respect that while simultaneously made that person find a qualified support if they choose to seek it like I hope for us to talk about both things at the same time uh it's really really really hard to get to that second point I know because like you're really hurt and this person probably has done upsetting things and it's hard to like let go but I think people can get there eventually or even honestly some people don't in general just

don't deserve that respect and just like say goodbye you weren't good for me maybe you taught me something about myself that like now I know how to heal in a different way but you know I don't need you in my life you disrespected me you know and now you're gone and like you can also get to that point too you don't have to like feel short for them necessarily sure um so I'm kind of ignoring the comments uh just so we can kind of stay on track but that we're kind of all over the place

as well but can I go on with the questions and then we can look at some comments if you feel like it if you if you get tired if you don't feel like it whatever I'll have to pee in like in a few minutes but the conversation is is going well so uh let's let's go on to some other questions um okay so what's the difference between someone who just has NPD traits and someone who has those traits but also suffers oh man okay so honestly my opinion on this is for the traits I think

just in general narcissism and traits itself are a part of The Human Experience so there's a healthy level we can say that first there's a healthy level of having certain things and then we get into people who have you know a few traits and those are up to some sort of specific insecurity hurt pain whatever it's just like that one little piece of their life covered um and you know there can be like a little bit of suffering with that as well um I think when you get to pathological Realms is when first of all

it's extremes of these traits and that it's consistent across the person's entire personality and um usually there is identity issues so people can have narcissistic traits without identity issues but when the identity issues come in and the Warped childhood and like you know certain things that's when you know you're really starting to look at a pathological level of that stuff um and yeah it's kind of hard to suss out on the surface but you know yeah does that make sense I would also say if it makes sense from watching your content in other cluster-based contents

that um narcissistic traits can be ego syntonic or ego dystonic so you can be fine with your traits oh or you can suffer man oh my God that's a difficult your ego you are your ego basically your ego and you are like this at that point and you're just going forward and that's how a lot of you know people with NPD who are unself come across but egotistonic is like me and Jake um we have you know now everything's messy um and honestly like it's sad but you know with the lack of healing out there

for narcissists to like even improve themselves and don't know where to go some people actually become aware and then double down and I have seen this they doubled down on their MPD trades because they're like well since there's no healing anyway and the world won't accept me and I'm so bitter it adds to the bitterness to the point where they they double down I've seen that you know it's not everyone's just not going to do that but I have seen and it's sad because there was information to help I think it makes all the difference

yeah all right um what are some of the ways that you protect your ego that you've been able to identify what are some of yourself States Your Parts your defensive parts I would say the first one is anger I mean that's like the obvious one but anger is a cover-up emotion for like literally everything sadness um you know hurts vulnerability um you know fear is a big one oh my God there's so much fear I've seen a lot of fear in people with NPD there's a lot to be afraid of there's a lot of trauma

but anger can cover that up too it's the ultimate state of being able to let out your emotions which you know every person needs you can't just bottle that up and also not love you know quote unquote weak as you know is top systems like that um so it's it's a very defensive emotion and it can also you know anger's not all bad either it's healthy to have a certain amount of anger but it can get to the point where you're covering up things that you know you're never gonna heal it because you're not facing

it um that's one thing I would say um honestly I'm trying to think like defensiveness um I honestly feel like at a certain point my own brain just defended me from myself I don't know like it was becoming self-aware was like a struggle in the way that I had to fight my own brain and that sounds insane but like I was trying to peer in there and it was like No And it would like slam the door in my face and I was like it was it was really really difficult so I almost feel like

yeah the level of protection goes there as well and um of course you know not getting close to people here's the thing um and people with MPD don't often like to face this fact but when you rely on people when you look to people to tell you who you are and to give to make you feel good to make you feel okay um you are in essence relying on people which is scary right but here's here's the way that you can like protect yourself against that the people themselves are replaceable it becomes this weird thing

where you're like you're Reliant yep you're relying on this person but it's scary to relax I'm sorry let me just pause so for me you're cutting off a lot I don't know if it's just for me if it's my connection so can I just get some feedback from people can you guys hear her well or or because I I want to hear what you're saying it's important yeah so okay guys just give us some some some feedback let me know if if you guys can hear what you're saying can you guys hear what you're saying

yeah uh come on y'all let me know what's up somebody said it's cutting now it seems like it's a little the connection is a little bit fuzzy is mine fuzzy as well Eddie or is it just hers see who is blurry guys anymore it was a little bit um I picked my it actually does seem to have help okay okay please do because um people are saying that yours was Fuzzy um yeah you're also freezing a little bit yeah let me just see also this line yes yes yes the good part of that as well

it's better um okay so yeah I will repeat better okay so yeah what I was saying about the the fear of Reliance uh I think a lot of people with MTD have like subconsciously overcome that and it is completely subconscious honestly maybe there's a little bit realization but it's you know because of the nature of just having to rely on people in this world for feedback you know for like who am I like for you know feeling good um the person themselves becomes replaceable the person themselves becomes a placeholder for a best friend partner you

know friend group and then those people themselves never really you never really feel like you'd deeply connect with them um and you know if one of them falls out of the piece of the puzzle like you just put another one in you know you just have another person you you replace them with another person and it gives a sense of safety as in you're not really having to attach and you're still getting your needs met basically yeah that's how I try to explain it um I remember a lot of times going out like with friends

and just like saying whatever I needed to say to seem interested but really to me they were there to help me relive some sort of like honestly like fantasy that I maybe like I miss out in childhood you know like some feeling that I was desperately trying to relive and like capture uh because I think a lot of what causes NPD is neglect like severe [ __ ] like isolation neglect missing out on things and you are seeing by the time you're an adult you are starving for praise you are starving for attention you are

starving for all these things and if you you know and and by that time you also don't trust people either people are dangerous and scary that's what you've learned right so how are you even gonna get this stuff from people you have to like push you have to you don't really connect with actual uh people that's super important in your life yeah it's much less yes yes because it's much less of a calculation than people think it's not like I don't know it's so it's hard people are on their professionally that you guys are like

you get like a book and you're like hmm let me plan it out how I'm going to destroy your soul [Music] s people who are fragmented are literally coming from an unconscious place it's just knee-jerk reactions because my partner was you know like honestly it happens less with him now but with my ex it happened a lot more with my ex you know like I he could not fathom why I would just like love him so deeply and it felt real that's what [ __ ] it up it's not a fake feeling there's something there

that tells you like it's real and then the next [ __ ] second something's gotten triggered and it's just no love where did it go was it real was it ever real how terrifying right how confusing you know and people's heads just go towards like oh well they must be like doing this on purpose maybe they're just being loving so that you know they'll all stick around and give them what you know whatever um but it's more to me it really always felt like this desperate dance where like I I felt betrayed I felt often

like the victim I felt like what the [ __ ] going on you were supposed to love me you were supposed to take away my pain and you just said this awful thing you ruined our days like how could you do this we were having so much fun you know you're supposed to be the perfect partner right it's like it goes back to that you're supposed to take away this [ __ ] you're not supposed to make me feel like I did as a child you betrayed me right and it's all this insanity and like

yeah it's it's very much splitting is very confusing from the outside because the person doesn't look crazy they look like they're psychotic because they're literally different personalities within like what fraction of a second yeah yeah and and honestly it's it's as I said it's it's tragic it's really really because like you know I I wanted to talk about this a bit but my perception and I think this is one of the things that I wanted like what is it like living with this my perception of things is so different and like when I found out

what was really happening it blew my mind like with my like honestly no not this stuff doesn't really happen with my partner with my ex I keep going to go back to that relationship with my ex there was this moment and I don't really like talking about this but um I'm gonna try to there's this moment where I he had triggered me he had said something really insulting I felt like my sense of self was falling apart so I was trying to get him to correct it right I was trying to control the situation I

was trying to give get him to he was scared and I felt betrayed and like he said that I followed him around the house and I was just like romanting at him until he finally like hid in the closet and then I opened the closet and like I mocked him because I was like what you're like you're a coward this and that whatever to him it looked like I was like the most awful person in the world to me completely different story I felt betrayed I was like wow he's just running away from responsibility this

is insane like this is so abusive like in my head I was like holy [ __ ] like you know he's just trying to like Escape responsibility for what he said to me but like it's so it's just the way that I was not able to see anything and then like I don't know yeah it's a completely different narrative that it's a completely different interpretation that you have in your mind of course it's defensive and therefore you're right right yeah it was the craziest [ __ ] and like I I do think that's the tragedy

in there because like really I think you know people just want to love each other and they can't get through they're not perfect properly I hope lives like this will under will help people like uh recovering codependent in a recovery narcissist they were like trying to understand each other you know but we're still human somewhere underneath so let's keep at it right all right um oh what are some of your histrionic traits and how do you express themselves in you oh my God um so not a lot is understood about HPD and I just want

to put out their apps so don't have an official diagnosis for that I only have I've been I've been diagnosed twice with NPD but no one's ever looked at the HPD I felt like I self-identified with it because I started seeing you know I'm more of an expressive there's like a uh they say like rapid shallow emotions is one of these uh criteria and basically what that is is you're more of an expressive person with NPD like you you have more you know emotionality but at the same time those emotions they never really hit your

core it's like it's the equivalent of like crying for five minutes about something and then like you just it's like it never happened and then you're just like you move on it never really is like a deep cry or like a deep feeling or like you know I'll express myself openly I'll say like I love you guys you guys are so kind you know this and that but like and I feel that like on the outside it never really pierces like through too many layers if that makes sense it never really hits my heart yeah

yeah that was that's not what I expected you to say it actually I had an expectation with regards to like appearance or some stuff like that but that's even that's deeper oh there's so many people don't understand a lot about HPD I mean there's another Criterion that's like if you take like the HPD test it'll tell you it's like disjointed uh self I think like presentation or whatever I actually think I think it means your fragmentation is just like even worse you know like it's even harder to hold on to things but there's there's yeah

there's deeper layers to it and then of course you know the relying on looks okay like you know gain attention yeah um how do you deal with being alone I'm sorry do you want to say something I'm just gonna try and put my phone down sure yeah I can hear you if the connection got better oh yeah because this must be uncomfortable right at some point it's like God damn it so the next question is how do you deal with being alone do you avoid this or do you seek this out um I'm gonna be

honest I don't think I could ever be like permanently Alone um I always the thing is ever since I was 18 I've always been dating somebody so like my regulation comes from dating people you know with Jacob for example he has like this friend enmeshment and he's never actually lived with a partner so it's different for both of us but like you know like that and I've never been alone in that sense except for right after my ego death and it was like three months because I was waiting for a new roommate to show up

um because I I picked you know the old uh the old roommate the relationship had blown up of course you know um so I was waiting there and that was that was one of the scariest times of my life so in that way I don't think I can be alone but in another way I actually will isolate if like I don't feel ready to do something and that's just my perfectionism and like also like feeling like if I feel too much like um it's one of those days where my outer self isn't really doing so

well and like I feel like there's nothing like people are gonna see I'm a fraud or something I will like actually there is a self-isolation aspect of NPD even like in the literature it's talked about sometimes just not very much in the community where like you choose to actually like avoid situations entirely because of trauma um you know because of fear of humor yeah he calls it the schizoid solution when when you can't face the world so you have a schizoid solution I choose not to label stuff because it it just worsens the problem almost

because if you're sitting there thinking to yourself man like I'm feeling debilitated or like I'm in this schizoid solution isn't it gonna just like confirm that you know like I don't want to confirm that side of things you know if you want my honest opinion on how I really see it I think that it is a hundred percent like trauma and um if it's like it's almost like I think uh exposure therapy in a way might help with that stuff like realizing that your fears though because a lot of this is people ISD you know

um so so one thing that um Sarah cluster B milkshake said in one of her recent videos is that you know here I was trying to heal hashing out all of the stuff that I've done in the past like describe it in full detail all of the crappy things I've done and saying that I'm a crappy person and I was like hmm this isn't very healing how am I supposed to heal if I keep on describing in detail all of the horribly painful experiences and I'm trying to move forward so there's a lot to be

said like about that you know yeah and it's interesting because like I'm learning as I'm you know becoming a Psychology major um in school they tell you about like in order to heal from trauma there is an important part of Storytelling and this you know is really helpful where you tell the story again and again editing and adding and realizing little bits and pieces until you have this fully formed story to express about like this is what I went through and it actually heals a lot but there you can you can go over the line

after that into you know obsessive absolutely and there's like getting it out is also very important you know being able to like rewrite your story in a way that makes sense to you it's making sense of your trauma and I do think it's why a lot of people are here online wondering about their partners because they have to write that story now they have they have to guess they need to understand exactly the [ __ ] they went through yeah I when I had my ego death I had to understand what the [ __ ]

I went through why would something so awful happen to me was there a point was there a purpose okay you know why and and I when I came to that conclusion yeah I think it's like the anger thing that you said there's a valid everything is valid because if things exist and there's some even the defense mechanisms there's like a positive intention so there's valid things it's just there's a point where where it starts hurting you know and then you have to like go on to like the next level you know the next phase of

whatever you're dealing with uh okay so I don't know if you want to talk about this more but we kind of talked about drugs do you want to go into how drugs affect your mental state do they help or hinder you do you want to say anything else about this or do you feel you kind of covered it sure I I'll just add real quick I mean um alcohol made symptoms worse great so yeah we're staying away from that I have a I have a glass of a while I think that genuinely I do want

to throw out there that I think it's harder not impossible but harder to treat any like you know psychological suffering when when a person's also uh you know when they have substance issues because you don't know what's the disorder and what's the substance anymore the substance can also make symptoms worse and it's really difficult so someone who was really serious about healing like me like and not just that like trying to find out what really works to heal MPD not like I had to cut out I wanted to cut out everything else first of all

because it was making me suffer more um alcohol perpetuates depression in the long run and anxiety and those are often comorbid and um I just wanted to see like my natural like what is this like to suffer from naturally without any of this extra stuff and then how can I spot those uh symptoms and heal from that and I do think that drugs can complicate that a lot and it's it's yeah it's really people are also using that to cope with pain so it's like it's almost like really yeah well you know we're having a

newest conversation because we talked about the potential therapeutical uh benefits of certain types of drugs but also like most people we yeah we makes me hella paranoid in fact we'd get whoa cannabis Cycles twice worst experience worst experience it's not for me but you know for someone else it'll work I don't know it's funny because yeah Jacob's oh yeah uh paranoia and weed who knows paranoia entity and weed okay it's uh yeah how do you associate I don't even know what this this question meant but let's let's let me read it and see if it

makes sense how do you associate any trouble you've been through with development of your NPD I guess I'm talking about like what do you attribute developing npd2 try to think for example just first off I think that um personality disorders are cptsd at the core with a defense so you have to to develop cptsd you have to go through a lot of traumas right mine in particular I feel like was humiliation uh I think shame and humiliation to an extent where I realized that my past self was ugly to be honest for real like ugly

and cringy and just worthless in every single way and I had this proven to me multiple times throughout my childhood through different experiences you know um and I decided to just abandon that person and just create a new self and that's really that was my choice of coping and I think that led to um I hope I'm not cutting out am I cutting out okay it's just you were just Frozen I just want to make sure you know people could hear me but yeah I think that because I made the choice to deal with my

trauma by being like yeah you know my past self is actually worthless I'm just going to replace them that's what caused that's why I developed this particular defense mechanism because what I did was I spent the rest of my teenage years systematically quite honestly repressing any old personality traits of my past self and replacing them and I had to replace them with something so I like look to celebrities I Look to people who are admired I looked at like how can I be you know the person everyone wants and why did I do this because

there were years years in childhood just year after year after year Watching other people getting accepted watching other people getting admired watching other people laugh and have fun um and then you go home right and it's not any better at home you know you're not able to talk about your emotions there's no safe space if you cry it's like we'll just shape up you know just deal with it and then if you're not strong enough to deal with it in your parents eyes you're also shameful you're also a failure you know there's nowhere you can

run there's nowhere you can feel good and and eventually I mean before I made the choice to like destroy my past self I um I isolated like you know basically they isolated for a lot of years um near you know through middle school and the early High School just like there's a lot there's a lot of fantasy going on as well because like if you can't feel safe in the real world fantasy gives you vicarious power you can live through characters and television and experiences and honestly some of that was the basis for who I

developed myself into I was like oh [ __ ] like I want to be adored I want to be powerful I want to be you know everything I was never seen as and like I literally that's how I chose to cope and you know I think I always tell people though they're like oh so that that's what messed up your identity and I'm like no by the time I decided to replace myself I'm pretty sure my identity was already pretty messed up and that in itself points to like how young did I feel like I

didn't have a safe space you know at what age did I I feel in some ways like my parents weren't comfortable with their own emotions and therefore they couldn't reflect anything to me if that makes sense so maybe I was like from the get-go it was just like it was over you know like I I never really had like I don't know I I think that the final straw comes when you go through trauma outside the home and then you come home and then there's no safe space there and then you're left and to process

things alone and Things That No Child could ever process and something kind of just like snaps no yeah this is what we're here for to get the Press done just kidding so so understand you know what I'm saying uh it's important for for people to tell their stories so people finally understand and start identifying themselves as well because it's like in in my public of course there's a bunch of narcissists children of narcissists No One's Gonna Be a narcissist in that group come on that makes no sense right yeah yeah it's fun yeah yeah and

the thing is also um and I forgot to mention this part but there's a bitterness too that I think is very specific to NPD that grows where you are bitter at the people who got everything who who you had to watch and that's where my personally I can't speak for other narcissists but my lack of empathy and it's not a total lack of empathy by the way that's we'll get to that in the myths section but my empathy started being really impaired the more I just felt people were dangerous the more I shut off to

them emotionally I started not being able to like feel I would look at somebody crying and it was just a person with tears you know like there's no like emotion you you shut down you shut you put a wall up so from that point it's starting it gets easier to just look at a person and just you don't feel what they're feeling you don't care and then there's another layer of bitterness where you're like [ __ ] you no one ever gave this to me why do you any of you deserve anything you know I'd

take it from you in a heartbeat you know I'm here now I'm getting what I want it's almost like a defensiveness that's just so angry about like suffering so deeply while everyone else you know watching other people get what you needed year after year it's like there is a very dark you know and I'm still trying to let go of that yeah what you said about empathy is interesting because um I when I hear so many people's stories I I the the the the most common story is actually isn't oh I never felt anything the

most common story is it slowly gradually shut down yes my child self was embarrassingly honestly I love how you snap to that word but yeah embarrassingly like um uh emotional my my parents never knew what to do with that um it was like why is this child so much you know and like um I think that I think my past self tried every single trauma response including Fawn before just deciding it was over because Fawn is also you you suck up to somebody you're like they're trying to please them and this and that even that

got my past self shamed so I was like [ __ ] you that's when I really said [ __ ] you all every single one like that was that was the point where I was like okay none of it you know like and it it wasn't always like that so you went to the defense that worked it wasn't always like yeah um well I guess I guess you kind of already said this but this is something that Brazil needs to understand in your point of view how do cluster be personality disorders function what is the

link between them like I'm talking about people saying stuff like npds and can't have bpds and bpds can be can't be anti-social you know stuff like that it's oops here a little bit but uh in this like weird like Western world that we've developed into it's there's an obsession with labels and like honestly labels are just labels when you take it away it's just different people showing different traits of different defense mechanisms and I believe there's a core that is the same which is the cptsd it's some sort of severe trauma that has happened again

and again and again and the person because of their temperament perhaps which is genetics because of their particular traumas the age it happened um you know whatever they chose to go towards a certain defense mechanism and people can absolutely have multiple defense mechanisms they can have it's really a blending at that point I mean culture bees are so similar as well if you look in between BPD and NPD will look the same sometimes on the outside in multiple ways if only when you dig under there that you see like okay the the reason behind the

behavior like for example you can see and I'm just going to make up one scenario and not everyone with NPD and BPD will even do this but it's like okay I did this thing where I tried to isolate my partner from his friends right because I felt challenged I felt threatened I was worried like in my head it was like well what if one of his friends is attractive what if one of his friends is smart or like what if one of his friends is more of the life of the party you know and I

felt so threatened and also I was I'm gonna be honest I was really angry and probably envious of his ability to just connect to people it hurt a lot it was a deep pain that I think I denied even to myself so I just like didn't want any of that and she's a support support cats completely random little ears she's here for support that was my reason sane Behavior but okay for a fear of Abandonment I need to keep my partner from eating like totally different like the reasoning behind it yeah absolutely that makes sense

is a different trauma and a different different um you know and sometimes people can have multiple traumas so they will have all of those defenses um and all of those reasons it's it's never that cut and dry that's just what the Western World wants to throw out there is like boxes labels that's why it's important to listen to people who actually have the disorders right and that just lists right yeah people are like but wait a second I'm looking at a list here what do you mean I have to look at humans that makes those

sense it's like uh this upsets me so much and I try to handle it maturely but people come into my comments and they're like well you don't look like my narcissist and you don't seem evil so therefore you're not you can't have NPD or they're like well you're self-aware so you know since my narcissist wasn't you can't have NPD or like you know it's it's like they feel invalidated so they invalidate me and I'm like oh God damn it you know like first of all there's no one person with NPD every person is so you

know has such a rich you know cultural background and like this and that and like wants and hopes and dreams like you're not going to get sure textbook boxes of people anyway and like you know they come on on my page it's frustrating you know and and or if they see like me saying something that is hard to hear like for example it's not calculation you know most of the time it's it's the person's hurt and they don't want to hear that because it's hard to leave their EX they're like no they're like no no

you're just not a narcissist then because you're saying like you know I'm like oh man it's a mess and I don't know really what to do sometimes but I just try to work with everybody and help everyone understand everybody because it is it's hard but you know bit by bit and also understanding that no one's ever going to please any everybody and people come onto your page without really doing their due diligence Without Really uh going deep into things so they're just gonna throw stuff out there like I get two groups of haters on the

one side it's like I come from a a religious country so you can't bad mouth your parents so it's like oh you're destroying families uh and and then on the other side it's like how dare you interview narcissists you're interviewing the monsters so I can't like I can't support narcissists in treatment but I also can't like mentioned that narcissists exists at the same time it's a weird no is that about like be happy that like people are in treatment like why are you doing I think one of the things is is it's got to do

with um the cognitive distortions and the lack of clear thinking that co-dependents have as well which is like dude like oh my God I I get it because I'm a recovering codependent but it's like we want narcissistic people to be in treatment we want them to have non-stigmatizing um efficient um spaces um and information at the same time you don't have to stick by that one person that was the The Narcissist in your life that is not aware that doesn't care they're different people people are projecting their personal experiences onto things right and and they

also believe because you guys they think you calculate everything that the only reason you go to therapy is to calculate how you're going to better manipulate now mind you I have had a number of narcissistic narcissistic patients who did not admit to be narcissists and they did manipulate but not that that's not everybody it's not that we were calculating it's just that they use the therapy to triangulate it they go back home and say like my therapist said that I'm right and you guys are wrong and that's how they triangulate it you understand what sucks

is that exactly it's also like the quick labeling of people is narcissism really bothers me it's like because really and this is controversial but I'm gonna throw this out here what I think has happened in society is that the criteria for abuse has become yeah exactly the narcissistic personality disorder now I don't know I don't know how that happened but it's causing absolute chaos and it's it's it's it's a difficult thing because you I don't know what to do with that I mean um I think that the best thing that people can do is just

address like mostly the individual behaviors that their partner is doing and really just ask themselves like in general can should I tolerate this you know can I tolerate this is this person working with me because the thing is like I've been able to have healthier relationships finally because I was finally able to communicate for the first time and there's you know a fear of community for people within PD it's vulnerable it's really scary to like actually tell somebody what you're experiencing and suffering because what if they're like who cares like you know your parents may

have or like your Society may have who wants to go through that shame again after like you know who wants to expose themselves like that it is terrifying but if you can like learn coping mechanisms to do that communication can make any relationship work it's just really hard to like you know the person has to yeah want to change and the person has to like uh you know because I still have NPD it's not like I'm suddenly magically not a narcissist I still struggle every day with this trauma with this stuff with these mechanisms and

it takes all my energy to fight it and you know sometimes I don't fight it and it wins it wins and I have to tell my partner I'm like hey this is why I will do this this is you know if I do this thing here's what it means and you know he's bipolar so like as someone else with a mental illness he has to do the same thing for me like communication man you know blah blah blah it's just people can you yeah that's what it turns into absolutely has to be willing so if

they're not willing to and communicate no matter who they are no matter what diagnosis they have if they're not willing to sit down and be like here's my part in this I take responsibility for like this you know and it comes from shame you know it's a lot of Shame uh like people feel like taking responsibility for a bad behavior is like saying I am bad and I believe that because that's what my parents and Society had taught me and I had to escape that first to even be self-aware let me tell you because like

you have to be able to tell yourself okay this is my defense mechanisms making me act out so therefore you know I as a person am not worthless bad terrible monstrous whatever but it is also my responsibility and it's unfair and it sucks but it is my responsibility if I want relationships in my life to you know to do the thing and and uh treat people with respect who I want to keep around and like you know how you have to you know entitlement can also take you out of that too where it's like oh

yeah well they should just do it because it's me you know but reality it sure will yeah he's like no we're not having that I just wanna I just want to reiterate something that you said that I really believe in this is gonna be like bombastic for people which is like so long as people don't want to work on their stuff it doesn't matter if they're codependent or narcissist or bipolar whatever it's not going to happen however because I have seen it I do believe there is tremendous healing to be had and with the codependence

of the world learn how to communicate their boundaries and heal themselves and the narcissists of the world learn how to communicate and the two learn how to communicate and take ownership for their part of things I think relationships are a place for healing when communication and self-responsibility yes they are yeah and you can always sick then it is healing and you know you can choose to leave situations and like can I just throw something out there that I I feel like for a long time I I think it would be very helpful for codependents or

even like borderlines anybody with abandonment issues or like stress about that my current partner struggles with this um he would not tell me he would not communicate with me either because he thought in his head if I say one thing to her about my stress or my day she's gonna up and leave she's gonna like leave me you know she's not going to want to be with somebody who's so stressed all the time or has like these issues and I looked at him and I said you you've been hiding that like and he's like yeah

and I'm like you know and I come from my ego side and I'm like dude if someone ever like if that's all it took from somebody to walk away from me is just me telling them a little stressor that I was going through I would say yeah there's the door see ya bye you know you clearly don't deserve me you know and it blew his mind because in his head he was like well I have to and I was like dude what would that get what would that get you in the end you would be

walking on eggshells forever and sure maybe you'd quote keep the relationship but is that even a person you want your life somebody who would just leave or like punish you over a stressor like is that really something you know so it's almost like I never realized the Warped view on the other side because I don't have abandonment issues I'm I I struggle with anything to connect to people ever and like form a connection deep enough yeah yeah that makes sense yes so I've seen it yeah and I've seen it on the other end like holy

[ __ ] these people absolutely codependency is a [ __ ] and I gotta tell you it's like you feel like any any of your needs are a burden and you need to shut up otherwise literally if you blink the wrong way you're gonna be abandoned you know it's it's it's like it's the fond response that we get stuck into right and we can't see anything else yeah that is crazy to me because like you know it's it's once again like the other side of the spectrum and I'm looking at it across the room and

I just recently told my partner I was like hey you want to make a pact and you'll just yank me to the middle this way and I'll yank you to the middle that way and like we'll we'll meet in the middle of all this crazy [ __ ] because like my thing is like I don't appreciate people enough I I end up like thinking like because of like what I've been through and also how hard I've worked on myself I I get this thought in my head where I'm like I've worked so much so hard

to be this amazing this perfect so I should just have all these things and you know it's hard to like I don't know like really it's besides being hard to connect to people it's hard to appreciate what is going on in the relationship you know it's hard to see what people are doing like that makes sense I don't know if that makes sense I it's harder it's almost like um I have to watch myself in in another way where I'm like um I don't know I'm trying to explain this the best I can but it's

like um I sometimes I feel like I'm doing a completely normal relationship and somebody will come to me and say like I feel neglected and I'm like what do you mean well that's an autistic person yes yeah all of my all of my past boyfriends were like they said some really confusing stuff to me they're like you're so incredibly loving and responsible but you're also the coldest person I've ever met and I'm like what the [Laughter] the avoidance and then I was like Oh you mean that I have to interact with you and not be

hyper focused on my special interests all day for you to feel like you exist well that just blew my mind why don't you have hobbies thank you that's so oh man you know what's crazy about that too it's like people don't even think like you know more people than just people oh yeah you can struggle with that [ __ ] like you know but yeah yeah it's not like uh we're on our little screw to the head right anyway um okay um what would you say to teenagers who have noticed their developing NPD oh my

god um you don't want this that's a good message oh my God it melted my heart because like you know there was this uh there was a 15 or 16 year old on my live stream who actually reached out and messaged me saying I think you've stopped me from developing this because like I became because of your page I became self-aware and that literally like I was like holy [ __ ] you know like I'm never grateful enough for like realizing how much I have an effect because my my you know honestly there's this internal

voice inside me that's like it's never enough I want more followers I want more of this and that when I actually stopped to appreciate those connections like the the fact that I'm actually having It's like mind-blowing because like you know yeah what I would say number one yeah you don't want this you don't want to go down this road it is it is [ __ ] it is painful it is scary and um you're gonna have to dig yourself out eventually if you ever want like you know to feel God loved in this lifetime there's

so many barriers um if you want to feel alive you know there's so many things you're gonna have to break down and you want to dig out as fast as possible and the other thing I would say is that um there is honestly there is hope I know it doesn't look like it um but I'm here you know that's what I can say at least I'm here like trying to figure this stuff out I've already tried mapping out NPD like all the roadblocks for self for relationship for everything I'm gonna make this giant map of

like everything that's stopping somebody with NPD feeling okay because it's a tangled mess and like I'm here you can always come talk to me and you know I would say if you already have developed certain defenses um the hardest thing I had to learn was that emotions were not weak okay and that's like something I feel like people with NPD that are slowly developing that I've actually seen it in my middle brother and that's the story for another time and that's sad very pretty yeah but like I've seen the emotions are you know if you

go down that road the shame's just gonna get worse and worse for facing anything in your life and that's when it traps you because if you can't face your regular emotions because you've taught it that it's shameful you're gonna be so repressed I still struggle with that um I would say no that's not that's why I have so much that's wonderful it's wonderful I would I would say to try to understand that you know you as a person um are beautiful and worthy and that you know you your defenses are not you if you can

separate that um you know that's really good for healing because it takes away the shame it says like okay hey this trauma is attacking my life keeping me from what I deserve how can I fight back at it you have to turn it into something you're fighting back at rather than fighting against the world or other people because like for me honestly Rock Bottom really came when I realized for the first time nobody could actually heal the pain I looked to other people for so long I said like if I find the perfect partner and

then when the partner didn't turn out to be perfect or exactly the way I wanted I would get mad you know I tried to control them and make them into that for me so I could feel okay it was never working you know the world and reality can only change so much um and it's depressing as [ __ ] when you hit that point and you realize oh this is actually how reality works you know like I can wish it was whatever I want it to be but it's never going to be that and you

know I went through this really deep depression about that um and sometimes I still get better you know at the world and other people I'm like you should just be better be more interesting be whatever I'm so bored I'm so depressed this sucks whatever but at some point you gotta just let go and you have to say okay okay I have to find a way to try and be happy and by the way don't take it sitting down either I think the world still sucks I think that it should be changed I think there's a

lot wrong with it but you know you have to realize nobody nobody is going to fill that hole that you and um that's also really difficult you know yeah that's that's that's very very lucid and um the whole thing about I've heard Jacob say this as well like it's it's not about even when you do achieve your goals you can't hold on to it yeah because of the voice it's just never enough it's just never enough it's just never enough it's just never enough if I could let me tell you I still have grandiosity but

if I could hold on to everything that I've done I'd be like I believe I was [ __ ] like a goddess or something I would be like oh [ __ ] if I could fully self-realize that [ __ ] but no no no I am humbled every time because it Slips Away and I'm constantly questioning everything I can go on a million live streams and like people afterwards will tell me you were charming and well spoken and then like the next live stream I'm like am I charming and well spoken I have to ask

again because I'm insane because I can't hold on to it because like it's like the ultimate sugar high it never hits fully and you just need more and then you feel sick and it sucks and like I think it's because you're not really feeding the part that's really hurt the most it's like a Band-Aid you're covering that [ __ ] up with a Band-Aid you know and also it's partly also the fragmentation of the self the inability to like just everything Slips Away in fact that's the scariest [ __ ] part of this disorder I

haven't really talked about this but um when you mentioned like how do you how have drugs like affected your life I've actually started taking shrooms just to be able to like hold on to anything like I used to learn lessons I used to have realizations and like this window would open in my life and I'd be like oh [ __ ] I'm actually suffering or like oh [ __ ] this thing that I'm doing is like hurting me or like oh like I'd realize something about another person like oh this is what love should be

or like whatever three days would go by it was gone for my awareness like I don't know why still but I could not emotionally learn anything and that keeps you at Ground you never you never you can't grow you can't move you can't you're trapped in this construct that sends you down to the floor level every single time you wake up every single day and that's terrifying that's I I started having panic attacks over realizing that I was truly trapped um and the way that the only way I've really been able to find to get

out of that was actually taking streams and I this is controversial and I'm not promoting drugs okay I've also been able to achieve it more now without taking shrimps but I had 20 plus stream trips just trying to like every time I learned something new and I was like I'm gonna need to remember this I would take a string trip and like meditate on it I would think about it I would just let whatever emotions it caused like wash over me because I I was desperate to get out like you end up feeling like you're

trapped in a hole like a a groundhog day yeah I think that I think that when drugs are used in a therapeutic way the whole point is for you to access something that you cannot access at all it's not real for you at all at a normal State and then you try to bring that on over to reality because it's there somewhere like we can't just be this freaking little self-state you know what I'm saying or these couple little self-states that we alternate between so so I mean come on Consciousness has got to be a

lot more than my little mind or anyone's little mind things oh I mean where has every compliment I've ever gotten gone we're just go like where's the hole because I'll plug that up right away if I knew where it was but I can't find it and I'm like I always felt like okay if I tell myself if enough people tell me this I'll really believe it but that turned out not to be true because I guess in my head and I think a lot of people with NPD struggle with this there's a fundamental lack of

trust in like your new sense of self because you kind of know you built it you kind of know you really manually like edited yourself and I think people are always worried that there's like let's say you go out in a social situation all of a sudden you know worse your uh your new sense of self just like falls apart and exposes like something shameful I don't know like there's this lack of trust that like this new self is you that makes perfect sense that makes sense so like there's all yeah yeah so there's all

this micromanaging going on every second of every day just trying to like present properly because you're afraid if you let go of control that you're gonna like fall apart in front of people humiliate yourself and then I guess die yeah emotionally speaking Yeah it's not always emotional it's sad but sometimes there's actually a question by suicide rate you know we'll go at another time um but uh if um if people with NPD could learn to trust their mind and their body more to perform like this is you now okay like you're okay you're not just

gonna suddenly wake up and you're you're past self again or something um that's a very real fear Jacob's expressed that fear to me um you know it's not it's not just like an offhand thing a lot of people experience that and I'm thinking like what if it's a fundamental yeah lack of trust lack of you're dissociated from your sense of self almost if you you don't know and that's why you need constant reassurance like am I really Charming tell me again like how was I Charming you I used I used to ask people for full

essay it was insane I was like just describing in great detail everything about myself because I can't you know I wonder uh well I wonder if the dissociation from other aspects of your own emotional experience actually make you want to get that high from the external validation when really what I think any human being wants is to feel good they want to feel that peace yes oh my God it's all about feeling okay yeah everything that I do feeling okay and uh for me I missed granity a lot a lot because it was the safest

space it was honestly one of the only times I felt okay and powerful and like I was in control of of my mental health and my situation and like it's been really hard you know um it's all about feeling okay it's always it's always about that um you know I have a can you go on for a little bit more are you tired is it okay for you are you hungry okay awesome okay very good yeah so the people are asking questions and stuff but I don't want to get off track I want to go

go back and look at some of the questions later on if you're still up to it but I think I have to pee so can you just stay there and entertain people if you see any interesting questions um yeah give me a topic okay so so I'll give you a topic oh man I I you want me to look at one of the questions or one of the topics here because I actually want to hear what you're going to say about the topic here actually you know what I've heard you talk about this a lot

so I'm gonna give you another question that I that I don't have to listen to I can listen to it later um and then I'll ask you the question that I want to listen to when I come back from my toilet trip the um the question is what are the difficulties and benefits of self-awareness is that okay okay I'll be right back that's a good one yeah yeah so honestly honest to say you can get to a point with your um NPD where you almost feel like when you were self-aware you were more powerful but

I've actually found um and I think this is really important that self-awareness gives you more control over you know your self-state than you've ever had before because like when you're unself-aware you're kind of just like wandering in the dark blindly and like something happens to you and then you just react and it's like your defense is immediately react and you don't even have the opportunity to fight against that um because like let's just say the defense is maladaptive and like it's not actually getting you what you want I'll thank you guys for the hearts um

it's like you don't even know why because like there's a fundamental lack of like why did I just do that you know like I don't get it what am I even feeling you know there's like um I don't remember what it's called is it like Alexa thymia alexisemia it's this like inability because you've repressed your emotions for so long to know what you're even feeling let alone why you're feeling it let alone why you're doing a defense or behavior and like that gives you no control you're just the slave of your disorder at that point

you're the slave of yeah thank you guys for the hearts so supportive see this is what I I need this right now yeah Alexa time yeah I hope I'm pronouncing it right thank you April but um it's actually so [ __ ] beautiful and invigorating to actually realize why you do stuff because then you have the option to a you know stop it and do another Behavior if you're uh if your automatic response is not going to get you what you need or you know B you just I don't know you can yeah it's about

curving it it takes even if you know why you do something and you have a personality disorder it takes all the strength in the world to fight it because these are ingrained defenses and he's back I'm back [Music] yeah very happy um so what I actually want to hear you talk about is your relationship I want to know about how your relationship has helped you with healing if it has if so how um whatever you want to say about that yeah so I've had like three major relationships in my life um the first one was

just awful the second one was my five-year relationship with my ex and I wanted to do that one first because he did change my life um he was with me the two years that I was unself-aware when I was diagnosed during my ego death and after probably for three months so it was a long ass Road he was there for all of it yeah and he he really influenced I mean he showed me he knew he knew by month too he I think he had a narcissistic mom he had he saw traits in me and

he would like jokingly mention it I but I just thought he was like I don't know you don't know there's a whole disorder behind a word you know or what that means but like he knew and he always accepted me and it was insane to like and honestly I um now that I've uh really broken down quite a bit I regret a lot of things because I think he took a lot of [ __ ] for five years I think that I was very unhealed and very hurts and he probably stayed when he shouldn't have

um but even then he would always say like I accept you you know I love you you know I accept your diagnosis I accept that you're working on these things but he would say to me he would say like you're still hurting me like you need to do something about this you need to do something different and I would try but like I honestly don't think that I gave it the respect I should have so like in hindsight that was [ __ ] to like realize that and um I would reached a point where I

realized just how much he had done for me um and how many times he had like supported me even when I was ah this is hard I'm sorry uh God you get to that point where you're like holy [ __ ] um he I believe he was the first person to teach me what love probably really is I don't think I've ever really experienced love in a past life sense I feel like even in my past lives I was a little [ __ ] I'm gonna be honest like I think this is my first time

I think this is my first lifetime I'm really like learning because it feels new as well it feels like I am really learning like what what yeah like what love really is and like he him sticking around and here's the thing I don't like saying this because there are people who I don't want to give false hope to and that [ __ ] sucks does that make sense like I don't want to say like oh yes stay with them they'll realize it's a challenge to talk about these things it definitely is and I'm I don't

even know how to go about it I really need to think about that long and hard because in my opinion and this is what I believe your love is is like me being able to look back and say I he should have left when I was doing those things for years down it like you shouldn't have heard himself really bad because I was out of control because I was really hurt because I was like you know and I don't even blame myself anymore I can say this without shame because I know it's not my soul

my energy core whatever moves through multiple lifetimes that is not my defenses my defense is [ __ ] [ __ ] up and I can accept that now you know because that's not me uh it was this I didn't I went through [ __ ] you know I got hardened by the world but you know I still regret it taught me a lot I don't know like my relationships have changed my life I'm gonna move on to my current one now who's you know he's also can change my life um so my current boyfriend um

I you know I obviously left my ex and then I started this new relationship and um he knew I he guessed I had NPD I have never told anybody I've never been I could never say it I was never ever gonna say it because I didn't want to face that rejection and then get angry or ruminate about it for years you know um so I he just found out and that like paved that path so then I decided to like try things out with him and uh I'm sorry I have to address this why do

people say narcissists don't regret is it a myth five second answer sure it's okay I'm sorry uh regret okay people with NPD can experience regret I think guilt is harder because the brain has been trained from childhood Honestly by very critical parents or you know peers to immediately justify you know to to put pain away so guilt is different than regret regret is different than shame they're all kind of there regret is something that I think I never told my partner in the tiny little moments I would experience it because it felt pathetic so you

don't know if a person with NPD often ever regretted anything because like they might not tell you and then you're just gonna assume they don't care and there's an even more [ __ ] part of this where I could feel care and then like three hours later I would look back at the same situation or person and feel like apathy and that would [ __ ] me up because I would wonder to myself like and that's the fragmentation where I was like did I ever care but I care can I care it's gone now this

is confusing for even me so in the moment it felt genuine but then three hours later it's like I have no connection to that moment and it's yeah I just want to explain that real quick anyway on to my current relationship um um I yeah my current relationship um yeah he already knew he guessed so that paved the way for us being honest uh but honestly I don't know like it's been the healthiest because like um when I started we've only been dating really this year for six months and uh in that time period I've

been really self-aware so we started on that note and honestly the challenges in this relationship I feel like have been learning how to communicate um healthily for the first time really like hashing that skill out um and also I still have problems with connecting to people and he knows this you know he's in love with me and I haven't really been able to reach that point yet because I'm still struggling and he knows that and that's the thing is like there are people out there who will accept you and work with you on this because

I do I have been able to reach a sense of connection with him especially through spirituality where I'm like you know which was really really healing and it's just more like proof of like acceptance which I think acceptance can be one of the most healing things anybody can ever experience in their life um and also people I appreciate people who um are willing to say like you know like kill reality check me like I I feel safe enough to come to him and be like um is this like you know what's the real situation here

like if I get triggered or something I can say like how does this look to you on that side because he doesn't have MPD you have to trust somebody though oh that's another thing this relationship I feel like is teaching me about trust for the first time um I've never trusted anybody in my life I don't even remember ever being able to trust somebody ever so this is the first time um in fact I distrusted people so deeply that I wouldn't even believe their word I would need to like test I would put people okay

and I'm not proud of this but I would put people in scenarios and it's probably the most calculative thing I've ever done but it was just to figure it out because I didn't trust people I would put them in scenarios where I would say something with the intention of like causing a reaction and then apparently that reaction was going to tell me what the person really felt and thought because of course I couldn't trust what they said because people growing up I was taught people are gonna lie betray you blah blah blah whatever so um

I can't do that in this relationship though so I've been I've been I've been facing some really stressful feelings and uh I'm lucky to have somebody who will sit through them with me and say like you're valid for this I understand like you know I don't take it personally but like you know this you have to try and trust people you know and and my near-death experience taught me like I at least you know even if reincarnation is real in the end this this is I only have this one lifetime as me right now do

I really want to spend the rest of it without experiencing Like Love Without experiencing trust without experiencing whatever I was willing to take more risks and like yes my my current my my boyfriend is just like amazing and like seriously helps me sift through all of this stuff while like you know being validating and stuff and um I think that helps people who've never been validated including like codependents like have a lot of this trauma too where it's like you need to find somebody who says like hey you're not acting crazy right now you're not

being too emotional this is totally making sense after what you've been through it makes sense you know you may feel crazy but think of the places you were pushed as a child think of the things that were done to you you have every right to feel this emotion right now and you know I'm here for you like those people can change your life would you say that that's what that's what allowed you to build that trust as you guys hashing it out those difficult moments whilst he was validating so there's like a a loving space

for the difficult stuff to be inside and for you to process that would you say that's what built the trust yes yes if I'm fire he's water he doesn't react to anything I'm gonna be honest there's been a few times in this relationship where I got re-triggered and uh by the way I want to throw out the idea here that you know the Rage of a narcissist you know the narcissistic rage or whatever it's a PTSD response it's a fight response right um I figured he'd say some little thing that made me feel either like

you know helpless as I had as a child unimportant maybe feelings of worthlessness something scary um and you know the anger wants to come out and cover that up and I have ranted at him probably three times in six months which is pretty good for like where I've been I used to fight with people every single day and he just sits there yep you know he doesn't take it personally and that was hard for me because I I originally was like wait so like why aren't you being affected by me like just you know do

I have no impact do I have no power I think that's like the fear of like helplessness it's really scary like uh trauma for a lot of people with NPD where it's it sounds [ __ ] up but it's almost like you need them to react to like prove that you have like the agency to cause people to react because like you're not helpless anymore right like it's almost like validation it looks [ __ ] up when you're saying to somebody's face like hey why are you mad right now you know but like he's just

sat there and he's like because you know I know you're like I know you're triggered right now and like in an hour you know you won't be like this and he kept like insistently saying to me like you know what's really going on like what's really going on and I sometimes I would feel challenged by that but eventually I would like let it I would let it all drop and just be like okay this is like what's going on and he you know and he really doesn't take it personally so I I think that now

you see there's a fine line here and I want to express this really really carefully um if someone you know enabling right and healing so enabling you can easily fall into that if somebody's just like well you should just be here for me and like you know write out these behaviors with me because I'm healing but then they don't have to put in the work and you start to see it happen yeah daily and weekly and whatever it's different when you're dealing somebody with somebody you've chosen to love somebody with a mental illness and you

say to yourself okay sometimes they're gonna act out but since they're trying you know it should first of all not be every day it should be like a once in a while thing and when it does happen you can communicate after and decide how to not make it happen next time right like loving somebody I've started to learn is not like it's not that you're never gonna uh snap at each other it's not that you're never gonna hurt each other or say a mean thing or like whatever even in normal relationships and you know who

knows what normal is but like this happens so it's your willingness to like watch that line carefully saying is this person taking responsibility and trying to you know work together with me to make sure these things don't happen or are they just kind of riding it and like um sorry sure um every time I go live with someone my phone just dies I don't want this to happen I actually have to take um says I have like if I'm not I'm not insignificant if I can cause a reaction in someone what you were explaining about

trying to get a big reaction look at this [Laughter] we love the healthy boyfriends who don't react and just like Tessa what's really going on everyone nice to meet you Richard not not me feeling like I have to image management him like being like stick your hair that's fine you save the day you saved the life uh no honestly honestly wait hold up where's your sound your sound completely disappeared okay I think we're back now I can hear me okay like you're joking your hair man that Jacob would say that right yep all right anyway

yeah if you oh yeah you can joke around stuff that helps a lot because a lot of you know first of all yeah choosing to love someone with a mental illness giving them that space to like go through you know their traumas and their triggers and stuff but like watching it and also joking about like stuff that comes up it really helps it really helps make light of it and um we will see how that yeah but what what you're saying it's like nothing's ever I think you know in a relationship two people aren't always

well emotionally so somebody's gonna go crazy here one day and then the other person might go a little bit crazier and this one might be more stable or not whatever but the deal the deal is it's a partnership so if you can be Lucid when your partner isn't lucid and you can bring them back to this place of like hey it's okay it's all right you can have those reactions but let's just hash it out though you know yeah just to get overwhelmed with one person and that's what happens with codependence codependents are like well

I guess I just have to keep taking it right it's like no man that's called enabling that's distorted thinking it's gonna be hellish for you the other person is not going to grow it's because it's like I don't think it's my responsibility to make uh narcissists grow but I think if I can be calm and love and be like dude it's okay that you're having this reaction but I think there's something else going on here if the person can grow yeah yeah it takes a lot of like willingness to like admit like uh like that

like hey this is like my thing to heal instead of like expecting another person to heal it it's it's bizarre and it's funny but codependence and narcissists are almost very similar in that way where we're expecting to get in a relationship for the other person to take away the pain and heal it in some way and codependence obviously do this more by being the fixer it's like if I can help this person enough or like if I you know do this but it's the same like you know yeah it's the same like uh the other

person should take this pain away and there's like a lack of internal healing sometimes and that's like when things get shame based as well codependence feels so much shame as well and our personalities it's not a real personality you're just pleasing and saying yes to people you don't even know who you are because you like you have to just please and please and please and say yes to people so there is a lack of sense of self as well for codependence or rather an over investment and being validated for being a fixer I saw that

in my in my did I was always the one the one okay we're gonna go here for dinner tonight we're gonna go out and do this it's what I want and he would just go along with it and it like became him and everything became like him and like he was almost like enmeshed with me and then like this and that and I've seen since I've separated from my ex I have seen him suddenly grow into his own person and it's been like insane to watch like something he's wearing clothes that I never thought he

would wear and I'm like oh wow damn you're finding yourself and I was jealous too I was envious because I'm still really I I'm really like I'm at the I'm at the point where it's been really difficult to figure out how to develop an inner sense of self so I feel a bit like I'm watching him doing it and being like what the [ __ ] like how are you doing this um but it's definitely a journey that I think is like very important to go through and I think a lot of things I don't

know if Jacob's still here but I wanted to mention it's hard because like when people with NPD try to face this self-discovery journey they try to do different Hobbies try to find different things and they just come up bored and that's scary it's like it's it's like um it's a scary feeling of like well what if like there is no sense of self to find what if like you know things are that [ __ ] I don't believe that anymore but you know I just wanted to give a little bit of light to that because

like sometimes I ask my friends with NPD like well what else makes you happy besides schools and success and they're like well I don't know it's that bad and then like everything else makes them bored where do you go with that you know where do you even start if if you try hobbies and they're still boring if you try the only thing that I've ever found that's helped me you can't do that all day though no and you don't want to and I don't want this is the only way do not think that I am

no no it's like drugs yeah I'm not selling drugs I'm not promoting I'm thinking that this is what worked for me and I'm gonna find better ways of like I will use this self orders to find other ways I want to use it to find other ways to hear because it can just be like you stuff yourself with shrooms that can't be it and it hasn't even fully worked for me it really hasn't it's helped pushed me forward but I'm still like lacking a lot of like internal I still feel very Hollow as you speak

it reminds me of my sister who like at 40 years of age you know I've been telling her for like for the past 14 years I've been building a values-based life which is like I went through this whole transformation to figure out who I was what my values were and then I just made decisions that were aligned with those values and that took 14 years and I built uh a life in relationships and a career and in existence that support those values and I feel the things I want to feel every single day uh and

then at 40 years of age it's like jitari after moving around the world all the time because I'm chronically bored and I need to feel something and you know just essentially when I was younger using my appearance and men to bolster my self-esteem and honestly just dealing with debilitating depression for the longest time and not knowing what to do with that it's crossed my mind that maybe I should get to know my values and build a life base so those values and I was like yes yes I understand that you know she was just she

said Daddy I was just running away from Pain that's what I did for the first four Decades of my life I was running away from pain I didn't have time to think about values you know and I just use the differences that I had yeah absolutely um God thank you for sharing that that reminds me honestly of a documentary I saw where there was this guy similarly he just like visited every single place in the world just to like um feel something to like but like you know he ran out of places to go and

he had like a breakdown and like he had to actually find himself at that point I was like crazy I yeah that reminded me of that and it's there's definitely something to be said for like um honestly if I did guess how to do this I would say uh I think that getting in touch with your emotions for the first time the emotions will guide you to Absolute real values and it's going to take a [ __ ] time especially if you know somebody with npb you've learned to live inauthentically like I'm scared now like

you envision anxiety and we'll talk about that hopefully but like I have more anxiety going out now than I ever did because like I could no longer be fake that sounds ridiculous but like I can no longer just be like oh yeah you know like you can you know oh you like this thing yeah like of course I love it too because I have no opinion whatsoever so I have to like fake something emotionally I can no longer do that because first of all I don't have the energy anymore took that out of me and

second of all like I mean this weird in-between space of like authenticity and like inauthenticity and it's like it's um the one thing that I feel is like if you can get in touch with your emotions again um and it's gonna take a while of them just sitting around because like you're so used to being inauthentic it will guide you eventually to what you want and what you really like to do in life you know whatever that is whatever your purpose here is more than just getting fame or attention or whatever um but it's yeah

it's not easy yeah what you said makes perfect sense and I'm saying there's so there's this um I don't know the psychologist who was called Sarah Gilman and she's a specialist in boundaries but but she's actually a specialist in getting to know your values because boundaries are completely personal and subjective and my boundaries are different from your boundaries because my needs are different from your needs and she brings this this concept of the inner Compass which is really easy to understand and it's like you have everyone has an inner Compass you might be more or

less in touch with it right if you've repressed your emotions your entire life it's going to be hard for you to feel it but at the same time it's also a very simple concept it's just like and every choice throughout the day if you pause and you go inside you can you can feel your way through whether your inner Compass is saying yes or no so it's like it's it's it's kind of a pain in the ass but that's how you build a sense of self because you do have an inner Compass it like does

that make sense yeah yeah because you know what's crazy uh I recently did this New Year trip with like you know a few other cluster beakers and we were seeing other therapists there's this mentalization therapist who I think it was him who said the exact same [ __ ] thing or something where it was like you need to be aware of these little moments because they'll guide you and it's weird at first but like the little moments are gonna tell you what you really care about and I don't know like it's funny I don't know

if I can admit this on here but I I still really struggle with like morals like what are my morals this and that um and you know it's it's kind of all too easy to just be like I want this thing in life and you know there's this path I can take and it's not exactly like what I should probably morally take to get it but you know it's easy so I'm gonna do it and then you wonder like where did that go and how can I find it you know where did where is it

um if that makes sense because like my brain is just like well I just want that thing so like I'm gonna go yeah get that thing I think there's a couple of things number one there's consequences so you can be dissociated from the consequences until they hit you in the face and then you'll have to pause it and go inside a little bit more now I think it's so bad I I once joked about this I don't know if it was with Jacob or someone else but I was like you know the only thing that

feels like it's keeping me moral is like my fear of karma because like I became spiritual and then I was like oh [ __ ] this is karma kicking me in the ass right now I have to be like maybe if I stop doing certain things it won't and then like I started doing this obsessive thing where I was like thinking is every action that I'm making like is it gonna get me Karma and that's still kind of like I don't know that's still kind of like not all there if that does that make sense

it's like you're the karma well you know according to Sarah Gilman the thing is if you follow your inner Compass you're gonna know when you're not supposed to follow the rules because that's actually better for yourself in society like for example for example I'm not I'm not a psychologist and I got a lot of hate for this because I was one of the first people in Brazil who talked about narcissistic family systems and people just [ __ ] on me because they're like you can't talk about this you can't talk about this but the official

people weren't talking about it but my inner Compass was like dude you know what you're what you're talking about because you went through this and people need to hear about this stuff so I gave myself permission to go against the rules and do what I knew was better for me and for uh the community at large there's things you're supposed to do that are against the rules because Society isn't exactly the most spiritual and deep and intelligent so sometimes there's a part of us that's antagonistic but it's wise do you understand it's supposed to be

that way that's different from just being shitty and not thinking about things and you know just trying to get easy answers that's different a different thing it's a courageous path and you know it's yes it is and it's super admirable and it reminds me of I think it's Carl Rogers like a very early psychologist who like completely changed the psychology game because people were you know viewing it as like there's a power Dynamic right like the the psychiatrist and then the patient was viewed as a patient not a client there was no respect and Carl

Rogers was just like I know all of society thinks this way but none of this is [ __ ] okay like none of this feels right so I'm just gonna there we go and then like he changed psychology there we go that's that's my goal that's my ideal and that's what you're doing so that that that wild part of you that wild dun thing part of you if it if it's a part of you then it exists for a reason right so the same part can have an extreme role in your personality that [ __

] you up because it's full of of of charge with with unprocessed pain then it's gonna [ __ ] you up because goodness because it's gonna be extremely extreme things but that same energy can be purified as you integrate it as you're more aware of it and you're like oh I'm going to use my inner badass I'm going to use my wild one in a conscientious way because this is what makes sense and this is what I can contribute awesome it's almost like how I tried to use my NPD traits because like once I realized

I had like I was self-aware and I was like okay and I was afraid of karma I was like how could I like use this for good you know like how can I like just chill and hopefully the universe will leave me alone and stop trying to Humble me if like I just start doing good I tried to either you know I got like this horrible I don't want to go into it but I went through this horrible like medical thing and it really was like oh you think you're not human huh you don't want

to be a human hearing Humanity no I was like and I still rejected it I was like nah you know I there's some things I still struggle with honestly but like um you know yeah life does feel like it's trying to kick my ass and like I just kind of hope that if I use my trades for good it'll stop doing that and also I finally found this genuine like rage at like the system so that was that that's the badass part as you're saying that like you need once you've process like the shadow side

of yourself it turns into something good because I was like God this world [ __ ] sucks you know like the middle health system is [ __ ] like I have people I have young people with NPD trying to show up and get therapy and they're ready and they're ready to heal and they're in pain and they're lonely and then the therapist is like you know you can't have NPD if you're self-aware and then they just like doesn't treat them and I'm like you just turned away like a [ __ ] you could have oh

God you know and it's not just that you know we're still stuck in this Western view of like psychology where it's like oh you've got something emotional like oh take a meta take a med like have some medicine you know it's a brain right depression's your brain you know it's not oh maybe it's like the old [ __ ] traumas and like crazy like you know we have to absolutely the way we look at this because it's just like absolutely absolutely but anyway okay so uh we have been going on for a long time but

I'm good if you're still good we can keep going okay cool Instagram Instagram don't you dare turn this like delete the Instagram was like I'm not gonna save it like [ __ ] you Instagram Instagram you better save this life yeah oh my god seriously that would be devastating do you want to like do you want to make sure do you want to stop now how are you feeling do you want me I I want to like you want to like you wanna you wanna do another stop like for the for today you mean and

like do it at another time or or we can try to go a couple I don't know if it's the time if it's the how long we go for it it's just like Instagram is an ass sometimes we can just keep going until like you feel that it's over and then then whatever you're saving the Instagram come on I'm good I I charge my phone because like every time I just take it off the charger because this is the only charger I have like okay so I keep trying to charge it as you're done yeah

okay we try to go for a little bit longer if you want if you uh um it's okay we can go a little bit long I was gonna see because I also think and I was gonna meet a friend and sing with him but I think it's too late but it's cool we keep on with the life because this is good I I'm inspired so okay um oh yeah this is a good question I don't know what makes you feel safe what type of people make you feel safe what types of experiences make you feel

safer safer this is gonna oh man uh so I'm not playing I do not I hate this okay the stigma says stuff right like oh you know narcissists prey on quote-unquote empaths or like empathic people and I hate that but to my extent I feel very safe with empathetic people and I think that's why I kind of like gravitate also they're so fascinating to me because like it's the opposite of of me in a lot of ways it's like the same enough but then it's also like I'm fascinated by How Deeply you know they feel

and like that makes me feel safe because the other person besides being beautiful and like the emotions being beautiful is also vulnerable and that makes me feel like I can come from a place of power and safety and like be their protector and like you know um whatever and also a lot of times I I still really struggle with trust issues right so knowing that somebody uh can't lie to me is pretty important somebody can't betray me and a lot of times if people are empathetic they'll show like guilts or they won't be able to

lie because of guilts and like that makes me feel safe so you know that's the type of person I feel like um I'm sorry if that's controversial but um uh honestly other things that make me feel safe um I just feel like it's kind of [ __ ] up but being alone because people I I and I don't like being alone at the same time my trauma has really messed me up because like I was taught people are scary dangerous and will betray you and humiliate you and like I have so much PTSD from that

um and bitterness and a bunch of other things that when I'm alone it feels like the only time I can relax even a little bit and even then I feel stressed but like you know I don't have to perform I can just be I can let it all down I can just relax I don't have to be aware that I'm being watched because like I literally can't do shroom trips with people because the moment I can't actually dig into myself because the moment I realize I'm being watched my ego or my outer self or whatever

you want to call it kicks in and I start like micromanaging [ __ ] and I can't just like be and like I almost feel safer being alone and like relying on myself I do not it's scary as [ __ ] even thinking about relying on other people because I at least know I can handle it I will protect myself I will [ __ ] be there for me you know I don't I yeah but that can cause me to close off you know sometimes but okay yeah um well the next question was going to

be what are common misconceptions about NPD you'd like to clear up cat going crazy but I don't know if there's anything that we haven't covered is there something that comes to mind that you want to mention um yeah the complete lack of Embassy thing first of all you know people with comorbidities and I know that we talked about that already but what if somebody has NPD and BPD what are you gonna do how does that person experience empathy what if you know by the way like complete like struggling with empathy is only one criteria out

of nine and you only need five right if we're going by this SM which sucks ass by the way you heard it here sorry not um you know they're still they can lack that that Criterion still have NPD so like um you know and then you have people with aspd and NPD and maybe they completely lack empathy or it's more close to that because they've got that anti-social personality uh on top but um you know it's the lack of you know my empathy for example is just really impaired um but I have had moments where

and it's usually when I feel safest like when I feel safe where like I can let in somebody's energy enough to like feel for one second and it's still hard for me to hold on to it that's another impairment I may feel it in the moment but later it doesn't matter because like I can't emotionally sure remember right um so it's complicated it's really complicated and I think just saying lack of empathy is very like reductionist and I think that like that's definitely that definitely should be talked about along with the fact that having low

empathy or having high empathy doesn't even make thank God like good or bad no thank God you mentioned that because there's people with high empathy who are incredibly dysregulated and are very toxic to other people they feel it they feel other people's emotions and stuff oh what happened guys what is going on Spirit narc disappeared for me hey hey guys um can you can you hear oh damn spirit in our glass no what happened oh [ __ ] should I should I pause this is she coming back I'm scared now can you guys hear me

disappeared right okay I don't know if maybe I should just like I think her I think her cell phone died or her battery right so I'm if her battery died you know what this is I I we had a few more questions to ask but I guess life is letting us know that we have come to the end of the conversation so I'm going to I think I'm going to wrap this up because I've seen this happen in some of her other lives where her her her cell phone dies and then she has to to

leave let me see if she's saying something here um or if she's just complete yeah I think her cell phone died because she's not she's not Giant on Instagram either so for for people who are asking this is going to be subtitled in Portuguese I just need maybe a week or so um I'm gonna pay someone to do the subtitles because it's too long to have those done um this has been great content um I'm really happy to to have done this live we talked about a lot of important things that have been been meaning

to talk about uh for the Brazilians who didn't understand everything is thank you so much Jacob and NPD April and Anna Karo Eddie Anna Jessica Mona Soul is that it is that how you say it Veronica oh God that's the name I cannot pronounce I don't know how to pronounce that you guys have some complicated names Prairie girl little fam Jam okay guys Cody the Capricorn here's another Capricorn for you thank you so much for being present this was awesome this was awesome I loved it so much I will be uploading it to YouTube and

I'll figure out what happened to to Tessa later on thank you guys so much for being part of this what a p what uh what a Pity that we couldn't um get to the questions right oh no she's not here she's not here I thought she had tried to to connect again but that's not her um it's a Pity that ah her phone died her phone died let me ask if she wants to keep going I'm still on okay so she's talking to me here okay let's see if she's gonna she's gonna be able to

log back on hungry man thinking about what I'm gonna eat after this okay so I think she's going to come back on yay yay she's coming back on she's logging on these treacherous phones I knew it like her battery must have died so relatable [Laughter] if they go live again and if you just want to like finish up these questions that could be like pretty sure sure let's do that let's do that because otherwise like this is this is getting very long we're going on to like I think almost three hours or two and a

half hours it's a long life but I love it man yeah we started like ads yeah we're almost yeah two and a half hours so it's a long life okay so let's get some more questions in there and then I don't know that I guess we won't be able to get to people's questions but you know what we'll do another life we'll do something else if you're up for in the future okay so ah this is a good this is a good question um you're talking about the empathy thing did you finish talking about that

misconception or do you want to say anything else I think so yeah okay all right all right so this is a question that I've been meaning to ask what's what has the impact of Personality disordered people getting together whilst focusing on self-development like these communities what has the impact been I think that that it is going to change the world I think it already has I think it's continuing to do so I think it's changing both young people's lives um the way we treat mental health in the coming Generations um and you know it's even

affecting partners of people with cluster B like disorders because you know it's promoting self-awareness for everyone I feel like and if partners are able to see I think like let's just take narcissists if narcissists can have a safe space you know there's no information out there right now right but if they can have a space where they're like oh [ __ ] these people you know like me and Jacob are kind of cool right and they've got NPD and they're healing and it's possible holy [ __ ] like whoa you know and they feel better

you know like more people are going to want to heal they're going to want to take the leap and if I can figure out how to like get unaware narcissist self-aware which is a big task um you know without having to them to go through some awful experience like I did that would be life-changing I think the community in itself helps people feel less alone and like a lot of these people struggle with suicide like you know positivity you know like whatever not feeling good and knowing that somebody else out is there with you fighting

it's it's changed my life I love this community I love the people and it I'm part of a group chat full of like all women and I have trauma with women like really bad trauma I was bitter for a very long time so the fact that this I never thought this would be my life when I came on and I started this community there wasn't this community like in a big way around you know it was very uh it was very Bare Bones and it's just grown so beautifully and like the fact that I can

just log on and be like hey I'm having a bad day you know does anyone else relate to absolutely that's where the healing happens the acceptance of you know the trauma saying you're not a monster you know you can heal there is hope you know I understand your pain you know all of these things um while you know actually giving real reasons to Partners about why people with cluster bees do what they do because people are confused I was confused like hello I was I was blind in the dark about why I did anything so

like it also feels you know people to know the real reasons because uh right now we have a lot of people posting you know hurt Partners posting very angry things sometimes or just incorrect things it's a guess the best they can do is guess and about what it looks like on the outside all these behaviors they have to guess about it and they don't really know so having it come from the inside I think is just so valuable thank you guys it's very humanizing and very humanizing right because like when I watch your guys's channels

I'm like well I don't I don't I don't have a predominantly narcissistic personality but you guys mentioned things that yeah I've experienced just about to that level to that degree but like yeah I know it'd be feeling shame at your core is like I definitely know what that's like you know I know what I have enough sense of self is like I know what depression is like um you know so I know what anxiety is like I know what panic attacks caused by drugs or like those are intense see that's where I feel empathy because

I've I've experienced that [ __ ] directly and it is [ __ ] up and I would not I was gonna say I would not wish it my worst enemy but then my my ego came up and was like yeah you would it's that bad oh my God but no like the thing is but yeah anyway the like breaking down NPD has been a bizarre and very enlightening experience where I found that a lot of the things that are going on are actually present in other mental health disorders like absolutely cptsd delusions um cognitive distortions

my God you'd expect it's the last place you'd expect that but I feel like narcissists wake up and Achieve like all 15 cognitive distortions in the first hour I mean I know I do because like every single one on that goddamn list of like cognitive distortions you know like it's in existence experience through a lens that has been so hurt and distorted by you know the people who were supposed to raise us right and you know like now it's uh I'm trying to remember there was this one time for example where I was like talking

to Jacob and I'm not exposing him here or anything but we were talking about like I was making this uh comparison to like depression is like a backpack you carry right like and you know don't you want to lighten that backpack wouldn't that feel good and he was like well I can carry the backpack you know like I'm stronger like he made like a right I was like you don't deserve to man that's what it's about I'm not questioning like your your abilities here it was so cute like it was so wholesome I was like

oh man do I relate and also like he's looking at the wrong thing and like this happens to people not the wrong thing but like the distorted it's like your brain wants to go immediately I can handle this but it's like you shouldn't have to you don't deserve that pain you know you don't deserve to carry all those backpacks it's not about can you handle it and so I said to him I said yes you can and you can handle it 10 times over and you you don't have you don't deserve to walk through this

you know you deserve to have a lighter load to carry and enjoy your life more and you know that's just one example of a cognitive distortion that can come up um but God there's plenty there's so many and I I don't even know where to begin like if people have specific questions it's like oh [ __ ] here's another good one anxiety which we should also I think that's a fascinating topic But anxiety and NPD when you hear like I have anxiety I think a lot of narcissists are trained by you know their parents or

their family system or the world to be like oh that's weak weak I don't experience anxiety I'm way stronger than that I'm confident you know so if you hear you look anxious you're like oh [ __ ] I'm worthless I'm a [ __ ] pathetic loser can't handle weak emotion like no whatever your brain either goes there or it gets super [ __ ] angry and you have to make the other person tell you all the ways in which you're confident so you can restore your self-esteem but how about this there's a third option where

anxiety doesn't equal not confident that's a black and white Distortion um and it just means you're traumatized and a confident person you know you're a confident person who's [ __ ] badass and you went through so much trauma and now you have PTSD and that gives you anxiety and you're strong if anything for fighting it how about that like do you see how that just flipped like you know but yeah but like it's insane because if you can't work through that Distortion you're never going to show up in therapy because it's shameful to you to

admit that you struggle with that stuff and like yeah I mean breaking NPD down is super fascinating um once you see everything like oh wait other you know these uh these are things that already exist that people already know how to treat so I think treating NPD is more about using like first of all breaking it down into little bits that you can understand that people already have treatments for and perfect then it's about untangling the web because you know I always say this like you know with humiliation trauma which is like what a lot

of the grandiosity covers up right like oh I'm the best if anything goes wrong in a social situation it's not me that makes me feel safe because if it was you maybe you're shameful maybe you're cringy maybe you're embarrassing right maybe you're whatever those are figures because the child self was so humiliated right EMDR has helped me a [ __ ] because it reprocesses traumatic emotional events and it takes it from your left brain to your right brain to your left brain and like that that releases the the trauma that's stored in the body and

like and yeah I hope I'm making sense but like these are treatments that already exist people think of like it's like this mystical like uh you know crazy uh like unfathomable but I would say that part of the reason people think about it that way is because of the grandiosity NPD narcissists present themselves as aliens who are so incredibly different who are so incredibly you know right before you said that I was gonna say and while that flatters my ego I love it I have not been able to let go of is when people say

you know it's only human you're human doesn't that I'm like no I can't handle it I'm not no exactly there is a resistance there like we we like I I watching you guys I'm like [ __ ] man but they seem very human to me and like I I have both of these in my life a narcissists in my life and stuff you know and so I I I see it up up close and personal and I have clients and all of that but it's like the way that you guys in the beginning that's why

I say there's healing for you guys and I can see it from the outside in the beginning like like Jacob said something in our life is like oh you know for narcissists people talk about the true self but for us like we wonder is there even a true self is there anything there is there even an inner chat I'm like of course you have a lot of this stuff because you know what I'm saying but I'm about to admit that you're a human but I think that there's not nothing I agree with you on the

not nothing um because I think that you know it I think almost that this disorder has a really Insidious part where it makes you believe you have no personality like it's part of you know the reason that I'll I will either like become super grandiose or I won't go out at all because like I'll get in these moves where something's triggered me and I'm like oh like watching celebrities for example on YouTube and I'm like I start noticing their quirks and all these traits they have and they're so natural and like they're just expressing themselves

and they seem so alive and suddenly I'm in my head like you're an empty shell you're so [ __ ] Hollow you're not even a real person you know who would even like want to whatever be friends with like there's nothing to be friends with like you have no inner self blah blah your thoughts really take you down that road and it causes like a crash um and I almost think because I've asked my boyfriend about this a lot that that's that in itself is part of the disorder and a delusion where it wants you

to believe you have no personality but it's just I think it's the sense of something missing but like you're catastrophizing it because I do think while there is something missing there's also not nothing you know there's there's an in-between I think there's like I think there's definitely like a validity to like yes something's [ __ ] up in there something's Tangled something's messy but there's not there's no empty zombie whatever you know that people exactly yeah that's not it um it feels like that at the Crux of like when I was super super unself-aware I

couldn't make music I'm an artist right like I sing I sound engineer my music lost all its life because um I woke up every day just so disconnected from any emotions from any wants or desires except to be famous so I would just like try to produce a pop hit and like I'd look up to my celebrity Idol who I've based you know honestly like 80 of my personality off of and be like I want to be like her how does she do her music basically what I'm trying to say is like I the songs

I produced at the height of my disorder were [ __ ] because uh I it sucked the life out of you you know and there's an aspect of that you know it's almost like a doesn't make sense it's it's sad I don't know it's sad it it's the same thing yeah because you're not coming from the inside out because like if you're an artist there's got to be a flow there's got to be a connection to this this other thing right it's like you're trying to construct this external appearance of pop music or whatever of

course it's gonna feel lengthy and weird yeah it does yeah in that aspect but like seriously this disorder can [ __ ] suck the life out of you I mean you don't enjoy nature you don't enjoy anything everything's boring goals everything's boring people are like never interesting enough like I don't know I think that may be because you're not actually connecting which is what makes life interesting who knows who [ __ ] knows I have series but like but you know yeah I forget what we were talking about EMDR but like I went on to

tangent but like pensions so like yeah once you break stuff down I I think oh yeah back to the mystical people think this is some crazy mystical disorder that must have some radical new treatment what if it's just as simple as you know all these tiny little treatments and really it's about entangling the web of like there's multiple problems that's why I'm mapping out NPD now I'm literally I've mapped half of it out by now where I'm like I took every single roadblock that could possibly be present in this disorder stopping love from happening stopping

like feeling alive from happening and I mapped it out and I said holy [ __ ] there's a million different problems going on no one even knows where to start no one even knows what to do but the problems that are happening people already know about cognitive distortion delusion yeah you know fear you know like yeah so it's more about untangling the web if anything um yeah yeah I wanna I wanna are you sharing this the stuff that you're untangling are you gonna share it or are you I can't the way that you're mapping it

all out yeah yeah I can I I just don't know if people are interested it's like I need people to be interested I'm interested okay I'm super mega interested are you kidding me I I talked to you I approached you the first time because you were talking about this in your stories about mapping it out and breaking it down and I was like let's do it live about it yeah I Okay so um one of the first things that put I think was like the inability to see people um and that's a really big category

but like if you can't see somebody like fully like your partner or other people and you're only seeing like a construct of them or like you're not seeing you know you're not able to see them without a distorted lens you can't love it blocks exactly love that's just [ __ ] love um putting somebody on a pedestal because you have this idealized image of them and like it's like oh that's who they are and then when they fail that it's like that's not who they are none of that's correct you know there's an there's a

more intricate person in the middle um so that's one just that's just one thing that blocks love um I'm trying to think of like more stuff uh wait what we could do hold up because if we go if get if we get into this it's going to be a six hour life so we could do a separate life about that so we can like write your notes and stuff because I want to know all of this stuff I have a literal list of it I'm just trying to figure out how to put it because like

in an Ideal World what I would want is to have it on my website you know for I call it self Supply it's this website I'm making and I want people to be able to it's a play on you know the word Supply it's kind of like taking it back from the stigma and being like this is our word now and also it's fine like you're self-healing you're not relying on others you're coming to the site to heal and I would want to like list you know uh God if I could get it to the

point where I could list like hey are you feeling like this right now or are you feeling like this or this and then however the person's feeling they can click on that Tab and it'll open up like a possibility of like what's going on and then they can like help themselves become self-aware and like I can do that and I could make it this sounds amazing I felt like this insane mad genius right now I'm like I'm gonna map it out that's what I like I like the the crazy Mad Geniuses who are like ah

the world sucks I'm gonna do something useful with it and find meaning in my life that's the point man you guys got me grandiose now there's someone in the comment section yeah that's it I'm the best all right so you wanna so let's if whenever you're ready if you want to I would love to do a live on that if you want to share it however you want to share it whenever you want to share it do you want to uh finish up a couple of these questions and then wrap it up for today I

need to eat man this is great but I'm like my stomach is already like my God you need to eat man you need your second dinner yeah I will finish it up so go for it okay um so a couple of questions the last two questions would be what has been the most useful in your healing process and why and then and the last one would be do pets help with your mental health at all and how so whatever you want to answer also save the pets to wrap it up because that's cute so um

the things that have been most helpful in my self-awareness Journey has honestly been this community um number one just like the acceptance uh having boyfriends that have been very accepting um you know even exes you know my current boyfriend obviously um I'm trying to think obviously this is controversial but shrooms has not even slightly cured anything but has opened up my emotions again when they were so lost and so repressed and I forever clearly worshiped that um because I got my little I'm a hippie now that's my new I rewrote myself rewriting but we can

do that some other time too um but yeah like I think that and then just being able to broaden the the idea of what's okay as a sense of self because I think a lot of narcissists run into this problem where it's like if I'm this I'm great if I'm this I'm shameful and [ __ ] and worse right so one example that I like just one was the anxiety thing being able to tell yourself it's okay that I accept my anxiety as part of what I'm dealing with because it's my trauma and it doesn't

mean I'm not confident if you can get yourself to that point where it's not black and white where you're not just splitting on your own self it's either I am Ultra confident or anxious weak pathetic person right if you can get yourself out of that black like that's that's the vulnerability grandiosity thing right there and like in the middle is yeah um that's really really helpful and then you can accept more and more of um what's really inside I guess like the fragmentation thing um being able to say to yourself like hey I may be

kind of empty right now kind of hollow but you know what I still deserve friendships okay I didn't ask to be like this I'm not gonna hold myself anymore to some crazy high standard where I have to be you know utterly not fragmented and then I deserve to be popular and like amazing and famous I can do that right now you know that's acceptable you know you have to be kinder goddamn like you have to be kind of people are in like I think a bit of a delusion about you know narcissists are so nice

to themselves and then horrible to everyone else and I'm just like oh God it doesn't stop there no no I'm nice to know but I'm not nice to myself either you think I'm nice like no my ego will tear the [ __ ] out of me if it doesn't see if it sees something about like inside myself that it doesn't think should be the ideal self it'll [ __ ] that [ __ ] up and that's me or something in there it'll do that to other people you know um there's I think like having if

you any sort of compassion or like kindness to like yourself like just being saying like hey you've gone through so [ __ ] much you're so strong for even being alive you know um so I'll leave that there and then like for the pets the last thing um I actually have a quick story and I think it's like really uh sweet I got my dog mocha actually uh babe do you want to bring mocha over here oh she's a Chihuahua she's a chug and I got her for like not quite honestly and very uh loving

reason I'm gonna be honest I got her because I was obsessed with this celebrity who I've based my sense of self on and she has a Chihuahua just like you know like blonde Chihuahua so I got this and I was like oh he was like so cute what's what's what's it's her it's a her what's her name again I'm sorry mocha mocha but yeah mocha you're so beautiful very cute but yeah thank you oh look at that face sorry I'll shut up I'm like enthralled with mocha but yeah I got basically like she's taught me

so much like compassion um she I think that almost in a spiritual way animals feel like little angels that are just sent here to protect us and give us whatever we need if it's protection compassion like whatever we need to learn I yeah I got this dog originally to just look like my celebrity the one that I've based my personality off of for like seven years and I was like oh this will complete the picture it was all image based and then I got this dog and I was I had this weird moment where it's

like well she's not just like that dog that my celebrity has and then like I had to like I had this process of like learning to love her as like her soul and her being and not some prop or like whatever you know to make me feel more like my celebrity so I feel great about myself or whatever it was just like this process of like oh [ __ ] this is a real warm soul and being and like you know I allow her to be who she is and like I hope that made sense

that like she I love her she changed yeah she changed my life and like I have a cat Alice who I got from another cluster B actually a borderline um so shout out to Joe if he ever watches this I don't think he will he's he has a really difficult time sometimes but he's not online very much but uh he had one extra cat he was moving couldn't keep her and suddenly he's shipping me a cat and like that's this community a cat and that's amazing yeah yeah it's just I mean sometimes when I'm feeling

really really bad I just like pets you know like yeah it has changed my life and I love ending that this live on that note my little baby so on that note I have to figure out how to on that note hey awesome all right do you wanna if you want to be part of the live hold up let me let me I want to I wanted to share oh my God she's been here the whole three hours she does little small and cute and she's 13 years old oh my God that is wonderful I

hope my pets live that long Charles are supposed to live like I'm like that's amazing what a beautiful way to let uh end all of this I love it I agree I agree I love it too thank you man this was great this was like much much more awesome than I could have imagined I'm so glad that you were comfortable enough to come on yeah yeah we talked about like everything that was really important that I really wanted to talk about that I've been following you and thinking about I was like dude we people need

to talk about this stuff people need to talk about this stuff and I'm so happy to be bringing this information to Brazil I am sure um that lots of narcissists will watch this and they'll be like I hope so this is you I useful this is useful some of my clients were watching it so it's so it's it's already going to be useful it's going to be translated and I mean thank you so much just thank you so much and whenever you're ready if you're ever ready to do the the other part where you you

break down the the trades even if you want to do it in parts or whatever you know so it doesn't have to be another three hour life unless you want to I just have to have food nearby you're by next time I'm literally down you have no idea I this has become my passion you know because I somehow just discovered a passion for the first time of like fighting back at the worlds like this I would do another yeah thank you so much I would do it I love it yeah I'll go through my lists

we'll we'll do the whole thing hopefully perfect yeah thank you that's awesome thank you thank you so much thank you to all the people that are that were uh following the live the people that I don't know the people that I do know this was awesome see you soon bye doggy okay