How To Master Business: A Deep Dive With Leila Hormozi

No, I'm, uh, the CEO of Acquisition.com. Currently, um, I grew up in Michigan, uh, moved to California when I was about 20, and then pursued a career in fitness. I got into fitness and quickly realized that I needed to learn marketing and sales, um, so I pursued learning those things. Then, uh, randomly on Bumble, I met my now husband with whom I started a business called Gym Launch, and we built and sold that business along with two others: Prestige Labs and Allen. After we built and sold those businesses, I started Acquisition.com. Now, those are

all the things that I've done that are business-related. Uh, I think underneath all of that, who I am more so is, like, uh, weird. I would say I'm a little weird, quirky. I love people, and my favorite part—and why I love business so much—is just because I love creating an environment where people really love to work. I love helping other people build that in their businesses, and I like creating a win-win for the customers, for the employees, for the business. That's always been what I've really liked doing. I think ever since I was young, I've

just been passionate about helping people. Um, and I think what a lot of us aspire to, which I also do, is just being that person for my younger self that I never had. There's this thing that I'm sure a lot of people who are watching or listening are going to say to themselves: "I was in fitness, but I'm not running a multi-million dollar company; that seems like a stretch." Help me connect those dots here! So, you're into fitness, you move to LA. I think I read that you became the top-selling salesperson. How are those two

skill sets related, and how does one become so good at sales when that isn't necessarily the training or the background that you have? Honestly, dude, I think I learned by necessity. I got out to—it was Orange County—and I went, and I had a degree in exercise science. I thought, "Oh, I think I can get a job as a personal trainer anywhere." Which was true; I applied at like six gyms, and I got offered at all six. But I had a couple thousand dollars in my bank account, my rent was $1,100 a month, and I had

gas, food, all that. So, I was like, "I need to make money." I had had jobs before, but never anything commission-based. The thing about the job where you could make money the fastest was that you had to sell. I had always been so averse to anything like sales; I just thought, "Oh, salespeople are gross." I very quickly understood that every business sells, right? It just sells in different ways. If I wanted to actually do what I set out to do—which was the main thing for me—what I really wanted was to help people lose weight. I

had been about 100 pounds overweight and lost it all, then started doing bikini competitions. So, I wanted to help other people do the same. I realized that just because I was good at something didn't mean that people were going to throw themselves at me and want what I had to offer. I moved out there, got that job, and I remember there were 20 of us hired at the same time. By the end of month one, there were three of us left, and it was because it was hard. You know, I think a lot of people

have a lot of preconceived notions about what sales is, and that deters people from even trying to get good at it. The second piece is that I think it requires a very large capacity to receive rejection, and I think I developed that earlier in life. That allowed me to be okay with failing so much, so quickly, and then also say, "You know what? This doesn't mean I'm a failure, but it means that I need work, and I need to get better at what I'm doing. I need to acquire skills." I used that as the opportunity

of, like, "I don't want to have to move back home because I couldn't make money and afford my rent. I want to prove to myself that I can do this; I don't need anybody—I don't need my parents or another person to depend on. I can make my own money." I remember reading probably like four different books on sales, and the common thread I felt after reading all of them was that I should be really good at sales because I actually believe in what I want them to buy. I'm trying to learn sales not to make

money—I mean, there's a consequence of it—but because I actually want to help people lose weight, and I actually want their lives to change. It's like this is just something that has to occur in the in-between for me to get there. So, I think it was realizing that, and realizing that behind all of the tactics of sales, if you pull back the curtain, everyone's trying to manufacture conviction. I had conviction, so why did I need to use any tactics? Instead, what I realized... I just shared my story with everybody. I was like, "This is why I

came out here. This is why I literally moved as a 21-year-old female alone to California, packed up my car with almost no money, because this is what I want to do for people." I realized that in sharing that with people, that was what got them to be like, "I'm on board!" They were really bought in, so they were more likely to be successful because they were like, "That's really cool that you actually did that yourself." You know, I think for a lot of people—obviously, you can make a lot of money in sales—but I got really

good at sales, quote unquote, because it was something that I wanted to sell. I really believed in it, and I knew that I was going to be able to help people. I had the utmost conviction in it, and I think the same goes for today. It's like, I'm sure I'm good at sales, but it's because I would never sell something that was shady. You know, I want to pull on that thread a little bit. So, you have a pretty radical transformation story yourself. This is what you studied, so you believe in the product because it's

transformed your life. Your passion carries through in the way that you communicate, and I'm thinking about all our audience, who are these introverts, these creative types. Maybe they work in branding and marketing. I think they believe what they're doing is good too, but they don't seem to be able to transfer that same passion. A friend of mine, a professor from Art Center, said, "Sales is I have a passion, and I just want to share that passion with you." So, if you can peer into that weird, awkward world of creatives and designers, what are they missing

here that they can't become A-players and be able to just kick ass like that? What do you think it is? You know what's interesting is that what you say really resonates with me, because growing up, I identified as being an introvert. I felt like when I was in rooms of people, I wanted to leave, or could be there for a little bit of time and then wanted to go home. Over time, I realized that I think many people can be both introverts and extroverts; it depends on the context and the circumstance. You know, because I'm

sure that there are people who claim that they're introverts, but in certain rooms, they would like to stay and enjoy being around a lot of people, depending on who those people are. As I've gotten older, I've tried to relinquish myself from any label. You know, even my own team will call themselves creatives, and they know that I'm like, "Am I not a creative because I make content?" You know what I mean? But I don't ever want to put myself in that box. So I say the first thing is: I think many of us could label

ourselves as something within the context of a situation, but I don't think that we are ever equal to a feeling or equal to a label. Like, I am not creative. You can never be that, and you can never be an emotion either. You can't be anxiety; you can’t be anything. You can only be who you are. So I think that by taking on those labels, like, "Well, I'm an introvert, so this is going to be tough for me. How am I going to sell?" No! You can be a creative and sell. You can be an

introvert and sell. You can be an introvert and be passionate and loud at times. I just found that to serve me so much more, because what happens when you label yourself is that it's almost the placebo effect. You take on this label, and you might have a few attributes that fit within certain situations. You label yourself as this thing, but then it generalizes to the rest of your life, and you start to bring yourself—you start to show up as that label within all facets of life. Then you actually start to take on all the rest

of the attributes of that label as well. There are a lot of studies on this. So, I would just say that within the question you asked, that's where people are ultimately starting from. I would say it's just not true. Even the statement, "I am something," is false. Like, "No, you are not." You cannot be anything. It’s not physically possible. So I think starting from a place of, "When I'm in these certain situations, I tend to act in a way that exhibits these behaviors," changes how you see yourself. For me, when I am in large rooms

with lots of loud people, I tend to want to leave. However, when I am in a large room full of people who are having quality conversations, maybe sitting and having coffee, I don’t feel the need to get out and leave. I think that the first step is just starting with how we speak of those situations, because for me, I had a lot of really unhelpful assumptions about myself going into those situations that made it hard at first to realize that I don't have to be an introvert or an extrovert. I can be both. Not that

I have to sell or not sell; I can do both. It's not that I have to be good at one thing or the other; I can do both. And I don't know, I'm just more of a fan of... and it's like I can be creative and sell my, you know. So, it sounds to me like what you're talking about is a mindset issue or a challenge that, once you reframe how you define yourself, then you can open yourself up to more opportunities. Yeah, I mean, because I like that. I think the best thing I ever

did for myself was say that I'm never going to label myself. I'm never going to subscribe to... even now people are like, "Well, how does it feel to be a female?" I shut... I don't care. I don't subscribe to any labels of anything because I might want to change tomorrow because it serves me and it serves my life and my happiness. So, you know, that's what's worked for me. It's not what works for everybody. I don't see as many benefits to labels as I do cons, I'll put it that way. Okay, the question I have

for you then is... you're, I think you said you were in your early 20s; you moved to LA from Michigan, right? Where did this mindset develop? Where did this philosophy come from? Because a lot of people have labels that were put on them from childhood that they can't seem to escape, no matter how old they are. They just can't escape this box that they put themselves in or someone's put them in. I mean, I hate to ask it this way, but like people always assume, "Were you always this way? Were you born this way?" Or

did you have a moment in your life when, "Hey, I don't want that anymore. I'm going to change today"? You know, I think a defining moment for me was my parents' divorce when I was, like, I don’t know, I was eight or nine. And my mother fell into, you know, alcohol and drugs. I lived with her, and she developed this habit, and it kind of snowballed. At first, she was drinking; she was going out; she was getting drunk. Then it was like she didn't come home until 3:00 or 4:00 a.m. Then it was all of

a sudden like she was gone for a day, two days, three days, four days. And I was young, and I had been raised mostly by my mother, so I didn't want to tell my father because it almost felt like I didn't even know him well enough. Now he has a girlfriend who has kids; they're in the house, and I was like, "I don't want to go there." So, I lived with my mom while she was going through whatever she was going through. And I remember there was a night—I'll give you some context: I was a

very, very shy kid. I was made fun of; I would sit alone at lunch; I was overweight, and I had buck teeth—not cute. I just remember, like, intense anxiety going to school every day because I was constantly made fun of. I didn't feel like I fit in— you know, physical appearance, all those things. And I remember my mother didn't come home for a couple of days, and I was calling her. I probably called her like 18 times, and I was just worried she was dead. I just wanted to pick up the phone so she could

just say that she's alive. I don't even care if you don't come home; just let me know that you're alive so I can call the police. And I remember just all of a sudden this voice in my head—it was like, "Stop calling." And I was like... and then I realized, I was like, "There's no point; you're not going to change what's happening here." And I was like—then the one thought that came through my head... and I just remember so clearly, I was sitting in the guest bedroom with like this cord phone. I was staring out

the window; it was pitch black, 3:00 a.m., and I was like, "You've got to just make it worth it." And I just remember thinking to myself, like, "It's been so shitty for the last few years. Like, every day insane anxiety, feeling all sorts of feelings. I don't think... you know, it's not fun when you're a kid and you're alone." And I just made this promise to myself. I was like, "I want to be a better woman for my future kids and the future generation than this woman has been to me." And I thought about, in

that moment, everything that she represented to me: victim, dependent on others, weak, you know, succumbing to vices. And I was like, "I just want to be the opposite." And in that moment—and I was so young, but I remember so clearly—I was like, "My motivation changed." I was like, "You know what? I'm going to start..." Like, as a young kid, I think at that point, you know, because they got divorced I was eight or nine. I think by this point, I was probably 11 or 12. I had this new vision of what I wanted to be

and how I wanted to show up, and that was how I looked at everything. I was like, "I can't be this shy, scared, fragile girl if I wanted that to be my life." And I think about that a lot because, you know, even the other day my dad was saying he was like, "You know, I was talking to your sister about your mom..." Insane feelings of guilt that you ever went through what you went through and that you didn't know. I was like, honestly, I'm so grateful for it because I probably would have still been

that type of person. Um, I think that was probably the most pivotal moment I can remember. Why I had that thought, I have no idea, but I just remember so clearly having it, and I think that it's stuck with me since then. I mean, it's been like 20 years. Um, but it served me. You're 12 years old; your mom doesn't come home for days. I can't—it's hard for me to process what a young teenager, you're not even a teenager at that point—what the emotions you must be feeling at that point. I don't know if it's

okay, but I'm going to ask you: I mean, did you cry? Did you feel abandoned, lonely? Like, why is this happening? Why is this my life? Because I can't even imagine. I have two boys that when we leave them alone—like, they're 17—it's like, oh my God, are you guys going to be all right? Like, do you even know how to put yourself together in the morning? And here you are, you go to school, your mom's not around. Help me understand that. It's like, how does that impact you as a child? I think people are so

much more resourceful than you think. I had friends, and I would go stay at their houses, and I would go, you know, get food from their houses and bring it home. I would entertain myself by playing with kids in the neighborhood. Um, I think in the beginning it was incredibly hard when it first started happening, and it was out of the norm; it was unexpected. That was the hardest because once it became a pattern, you just expect it to happen, and it becomes your life. When it wasn't and it was unexpected, um, I think that

was when it was the hardest for me. The way I can only describe it is like when you have that feeling of anxiety, like before you step on stage—I just had that all the time because I felt like I was living with somebody who was very unpredictable. So I was never sure when the next shoe was going to drop. And then once I saw over a long enough time what her new patterns were, then it was just, how am I going to take care of myself? I mean, that is where I think so much of

actually my leadership has come from is that, you know, I learned to dress myself, take care of myself, and take care of the house. She ended up bringing home 13 animals and then not taking care of them, and so I took care of all the animals, did the dishes, made sure we didn't have rotten food in the house—like, started taking care of things, you know, noticing we had unpaid bills like 14 of them. Um, doing all that stuff as a young kid. Because it's funny, like, we treat a lot of kids like they're not capable

of all these things, but like so many of the things that I did were things that some adults can't even do, you know? But by necessity, I just started doing them. I think that you just adapt. And I mean, after that, it was really interesting because then when I had to go back and live with my dad years later, and the police found out— that was a whole thing. Um, that was really hard to, like, have basically been taking care of yourself and then go into a household where people start to try and take care

of you. That was incredibly uncomfortable. Um, but I think a lot of kids are more capable than their parents think they are. And I think, you know, I don't really know. I've read a lot of books on, like, nature versus nurture—I have no idea what goes into it. I don't know why, but I think I made the best of it at the end, you know? I think at the same time, like, there's a lot of stuff I dealt with later, um, because, you know, it causes some adverse behaviors, like just being angry—but I figured that

out later on. So that was fun. I have this theory, and I'm really into comic books and graphic novels and fiction, and I think the difference that defines a hero and a villain is how they deal with adversity and trauma. Right? So in this case, somebody else could have shut down, could have gone down their own dark path and repeated the same behaviors versus emerging more resilient, empowered, and making promises to her young self that I'm never going to be this kind of person; I'm going to be the antithesis to this. Um, I'm curious: what

is your relationship with your mom today? We don't speak. Okay, I've tried for a long time. Um, I didn't speak to her for a few years, and it's really interesting, you know? 'Cause a lot of people, they're like, "Oh, do you want to talk?" I'm totally fine talking about it, um, because I think a lot of people carry a lot of guilt for not speaking to their parents. But if every time you see your parent there's an incredibly punishing event, and they make your life worse, would I let somebody else treat me that way? If

for the last 15 years I have tried to have a relationship with her, it has been a series of punishing events—whether it be emotionally punishing, physically punishing, or, you know, mentally punishing? Um, and so I just decided, I was like, you know... Just because you were great for a period of time in my life, it doesn't mean it works for me anymore. And just because I'm your daughter doesn't mean I need to stay in a relationship out of obligation. I have higher standards for how my friends treat me and how strangers treat me. I wouldn't

even let a stranger treat me that way. I'm not talking about being rude or something like that; it goes far beyond that. I don't have a relationship. I probably would take spurts of like a couple of years, try a couple of years, try, and the last time was, I want to say, four and a half years ago. Then I let her know that I was no longer going to attempt to try because I had tried so many times and I had given so many chances. I said I've just realized by this point it's been 12

years, and nothing's changing. You know, she's tried to reach out, but it's just not something that—I mean, it sounds like people think that I've got some deep un— I have nothing. I'm just like, what's the benefit? I have so many amazing people in my life who bring me so much joy. I have so much in my life that I love doing; so many people that are so great, and you just make everything worse. So, why would I want a relationship with you? I just choose not to. My wife was raised by a mom who's too

young to have her "mom hat" on, so she's gone through a lot of her life raising herself and her sisters. She has similar things, a little bit different, but there's this thing—they have a great relationship; she's fine. But I think there's something deep inside of her that is very sensitive to the feeling of not being loved. So, whenever I show anything where I'm not pleased with something, it's way more than what that is because it's like a sign that I don't love her. Of course, I do love her. Do you have all the love that

you need in your life? I think I have a lot of love. No, yeah, I wouldn't say that like my whole life I have, but I feel like right now is probably the happiest I've ever been. I think it comes down to a really simple sentence that I've just learned: life is so overcomplicated. It's like do stuff you like with people you like and do more of that. So I just try to follow that. Even when it comes to work, I think that if you like what you're doing and you like the people you're doing

it with, there's nothing more enjoyable for me. So I do feel that way, and I think I'm lucky because I have friends that have become like family and then a really strong father. I think my father and I became super close through that experience because after everything became exposed to him and I moved in with him, I don't know if that would have happened. I don't know if I ever would have gotten that close to him. Still, we're very close; we talk every day. He now works in my company. I don't know if that would

have happened if everything with my mom hadn't happened. My dad is like one of the most genuinely amazing people that I know—like, that I truly have ever met in my life. It's not because he's my dad; it's just because of who he is. So I feel really lucky. I think when I was young, I had a lot of feelings of envy toward people who had a strong mother. That was tough for me—like watching people go shopping with their mom and watching them; you know, it'd be movie night and the mom comes down, she's talking with

us about guys and all that. It's stuff like that when you're a teenager and you're growing up and becoming a woman— not having a woman to talk to—that was hard. But as I've gotten older, I think I've been resourceful enough to find people that have been able to supplement in that way. I think that I miss the love that the mother I had before she turned to alcohol gave me, but I don't miss what I got after. I'll be honest, dude: I don't spend any time thinking about it because I'm like, it might be true

that I'm missing a mother’s love, but is it useful to think about? Does it benefit my life? Does it make me feel better or worse? If it doesn't make me feel better and there's nothing I can do about it, I don't know. I'm so blessed compared to others. I grew up here in America, you know? My dad came from Iran; I genuinely feel there's just so much that could be so much worse. I have nothing to complain about. Yeah, it's really wild for me to hear you say this and describe your thought process because this

is how I think, and I describe it to people, and they're like, "You’re alien—nobody thinks like that." I'm like, “No, I know somebody else who thinks just like that.” Here's the example I would give to people: I don't know for a fact that we have free will; we could just all be like cause and effect machines that we just don't understand. I actually agree with you 100%. Right? Yeah, but I choose to. Believe that we have free will because it's a better idea than to say, "I'm not responsible for my actions and my thoughts," right?

And so when something bad happens to us, we get to choose what is an empowering idea, what's going to move us forward, and what are we going to learn from this experience. You sound like you have that part worked out because you’re saying, "I might not be me today had it not been for those tough times." So you've gone past the point of blaming and being angry to the point of, I think it sounds like gratitude that made you who you are, that's I think, right? Or no? Well, I think what it is is that

I've stuck around long enough, and like enough time has passed. I've seen the benefit, and I've been able to correlate the skills I have now with what I learned then. I think when you're in the messy middle of it, you're just feeling shitty, and you don't feel grateful because you haven't yet recognized the benefit it brings to your life. Some things that happen, you don't see the benefit for five or ten years. I feel like that's how it was with that; I don't think I saw the benefit for about ten years. But then when I

saw it, it was so clear to me, and I was like, "This is why all of that is going to benefit me." That developed skills that I'm now using here, and it's giving me a huge advantage for my age. I think my gratitude is only amplified over time, probably because of that. It’s like I've just recognized the benefit of it. Now, you said something, and I'd like to revisit this part of it. When you're a young person, you're like, "That's not the mom I'm going to be. I'm going to fix myself so I don't repeat

these patterns." It’s an incredibly powerful idea because I think what people do is they just wind up repeating the same patterns over and over, generation to generation. So, I have this question to ask you because people ask me this: Okay, so in this environment, the Lila that we know today is here. If you were to have kids, would you want them to be like, "Hey, go take care of yourself, figure out your life because I'm not going to take care of you," because that's what made you? Or do you say, "Let me take care of

you so that you don't have to deal with that"? And then how does that shape their thinking? I'm curious in that thought experiment what you would do. I think there's a difference between having kids and parenting. When I think of parenting, I think there are a lot of similarities between parenting and mentoring, mentoring younger people. I think that I would look at it like I am this person's mentor. I've thought about this a lot. I do not think that I am—I don’t let my emotions dictate my actions enough for me to not do what I

know is ultimately right by a person. Even when I mean, I have so much care for the people on my team, but I will not baby them because I don't see how that benefits them. Even if I want to, even if I'm like, "They're crying," and I'm like, "Is that going to benefit them in the long term?" If it's not going to, I'm not going to do it, you know? Because I feel like that's selfish; it only makes me feel better, not them. And so I view kids the same way, which is I would do

what's best for them in the short and long term. I think that's a good frame for parenting: "How do I act in a way that benefits my children both in the short term and long term?" Because a lot of the time, it's one or the other, and I think the best is when you can find it serves both. But I think, to be honest, I would never hand my children anything because I don’t, again, see how it would benefit them. I think that doesn't mean I wouldn't teach them and give them an advantage by educating

them, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to give it to them, right? Like, I’ll teach you how to build this; I'm not going to give it to you. There’s something that Alex wrote, and he said on stage that I’d like to get your opinion on. He said something like, “Successful people have these three traits.” I hope I'm getting this right: they have something like a God complex—they think they can fix the world to make it better—they have some form of crippling insecurity, and they’re willing to delay gratification. But the thing that I want to

focus on is the insecurity thing. Like, Alex is a super yoked guy; very successful. What do you have to be insecure about? Then I saw on your Instagram you’re like, “I have insecurity.” You’re a super successful, fit, beautiful person; everybody's going to be watching. It’s like, what could she possibly be insecure about, and what is it, and where is it coming from, and how are you dealing with it? I think insecurity comes from if, for more of my life than not, I was a certain way; then it will take longer to acclimate to the new

conditions. So it’s like if for a long time I was overweight… Then it's going to take me a long time to feel confident, even if I've lost the weight, because the circumstance can change. But like, my behaviors of acting like a fat person do not. So, like, even to this day—like, it's so funny—I was talking to one of our good friends, Dr. Cashy, who was here in town, and I was saying something, and I was like, "I just want to lose like four more pounds so I can look really fit in this." And he was

like, "You do, but you wear baggy clothes." And I was like, "Oh." And he was like, "Yeah, you don't dress like you're fit, but you're fit." And I was like, "It's so funny; I still don't, to this day. I still feel weird wearing tight clothes because for so long I was so fat." So I think it's almost like the circumstance changes, but we don't adapt our behaviors to match. I think that's why there are just a lot of things that have changed very quickly for me in my life and happened on a fast timeline, and

it's almost like you don't catch up to it. I think that's the first thing. The second thing is, I'm always comparing myself and looking at people who are so far ahead of me that I do feel like I have a lot of deficits and skills to work on. Now, let me put it this way: I'm not beating myself up over it like old Lea would do. Maybe when I was 21 or 22, but I don't beat myself up over that. I'm just like, "Oh man, I've got a lot to learn." But I think the insecurity,

it's probably more now, like what's most relevant to me has been since I started making content. Running a business, I felt very insecure in the beginning. The first few years, I was like, "Oh my God, I'm 23. These people probably think I'm an idiot. Who's this 23-year-old running a business?" You know what I mean? Like, seriously. I mean, it's like, "What business do you have doing this? You don't have any experience." And like, "Now I've got to work for you." You know? And so that’s what I would play out that they’re thinking when I hired

them, and I was like, "I have no actions that support that." I will say, like, it drove me to try so hard and work my ass off to make sure that I would be really good at what I did. I don't think I recognized that my confidence matched my competence until probably five years in. I think, with social media and posting and making videos and all that, even now, you were telling me before, "You're like, we're going to talk about brand," and I was like, "You know, like, because I'm like, oh my gosh, I just

started like two and a half years ago at the most." Like, it was two and a half years ago! I'm like, I feel like I'm barely scratching the surface with all of this. I think that a lot of times, it just takes time for you to recontextualize where you're at, especially if things happen quickly. Like, our business grew quickly; some people might say my brand grew generally quickly compared to others. And so it's like you don't catch up necessarily, and I think it's like you're still human. I think just because I act a certain way—I

don’t let insecurity drive my behavior—it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But I hope that that can be aspirational for people, rather than, you know, because I used to always look at people and think, "Oh my God, I've got to get rid of all my insecurities until I can build a business, until I can make content, until I can do all these things." Then I realized that that never happened, and I did it all while having all those feelings at the same time, and that was relieving to me. It still remains relieving because I'm like, "Oh,

I can make room for all these emotions, and I can still get this done." Okay, soft transition here. Mhm. I've not achieved anywhere near the level of success that you have, but when people ask me what's the secret to success, I pause and I'll tell them this answer, and they're not expecting it. I'll say, "Choose a good partner in your life," because they'll lift you or they'll drag you down. They'll make you feel guilty for working, or they'll be right there next to you, working with you. And so I have to say, and I've done

a little research on your story, and I think there's something quite remarkable about your relationship with Alex because I cannot imagine two people who are more suited for each other than the two of you. It's like you're the female version of him, and he's the male version of you. It's like you're mirrors. You love to work—like, it's so weird to say, "Hey, what are you doing? Let's work!" I'm like, I don't know any woman who would do that. And like, you're the one, again. It's like the anomaly in The Matrix, right? And you guys find

each other, and you support each other, and you lift each other. The question I have for you is this: Alex tells a story, and it's pretty well documented. He's like, "I'm a loser; I've lost everything. I made you quit your..." "Job, you've come live with me. My question for you is: why are we so loyal to him? What did you see in this person that didn't even give himself credit? In the book that I read, it's like if you left him there, I think he would have been a broken human for the rest of time

because there was not a lot going for him. And every once in a while, I think everybody, if they're so blessed in this life, has one person who could look them straight in the eye and say, 'I believe in you' before they believe in themselves. I'm just curious what you saw. Because, you know, there's a lady or a man out there, and you have a partner. Let's learn to identify these things because we can't abandon these people too early. When I first met Alex—and this is just to give context—I remember on the fourth day of

having met him, he had to go out of town for something. I was at work, and he was like, 'Hey, can you pick up all the cash from all of my gyms and deposit it into the bank for me?' I was like, 'What the heck are you doing? You just met me on Bumble, and you're asking me to pick up all your money?' He was like, 'No, you're loyal.' I was like, 'How do you know?' He was like, 'I can just tell. You would never do that.' And I was like, 'He's right, you know what

I mean? I mean, he's right. I would never steal a penny from anybody. That's just not who I am.' So I say that to demonstrate that I am loyal to a fault, and I had been loyal many times previously in my life to people who maybe didn't reciprocate it back to me. When I met Alex, I think there are two drivers of that. One, I value loyalty from others, so I want to exhibit it to others first. I also think I genuinely have always strived to be as good a person as my father is. He's

the type of person who will stand by someone no matter what, you know what I mean? So I'm really grateful to have him as a role model. But when I met Alex, bringing that into the relationship, I saw a man who was so incredibly strong and the most persistent person I've ever met. His work ethic was—and still is—higher than anybody's I've ever seen. I mean, his ability to actually have high output for 14 hours a day just sitting there, not needing reinforcement, is crazy to me. But I saw that he was in a place where

there were two things I felt—and he might not agree with some of this because it has to do with other people. I felt like he didn't have the right people surrounding him to let his strengths shine. He had very special gifts that he had cultivated in himself, but he didn't have the right people around him to showcase those gifts. That's the first thing. The second thing is that what a lot of people also don't know is that Alex is incredibly giving—he will give more than the other person, always. That's how he is in all relationships.

I felt like that was kind of the place he was in: he continued to be giving to people and gave too much. I also didn't feel like there was anything he was doing that was wrong; I just felt like he didn't have the right people around him. I remember thinking to myself and telling him, 'I feel like we can make such a great team. I really feel like I see exactly what you're fantastic at, and I think I have a complementary skill set. If we keep cultivating our skills, we could be unstoppable together.' I had

always had the vision of wanting somebody who amplified me as a person rather than suppressed me. He was the first man I met who actually voiced that he wanted that. I remember just how he said it: he was like, 'If I want somebody to cook and clean for me, I'll hire a maid.' I was like, 'I get it.' But I had had a lot of people I’d been in relationships with who wanted me to be more quiet, you know? To stand down, to not be so opinionated. And I'm like, 'I am loud, and I'm weird,

and I work really hard, and I try to be successful,' you know what I mean? So it just felt like they wanted me to be less than myself. I understand that that's not for everybody, and I have no judgment upon that either. I don't think there's anything wrong with it; it's just not what works for me. In that moment, honestly, the thought that came to mind was: 'Shut the f*** up. I'm not going to leave. There's no way, after all of this that we've been through, after this last year, that we're going to turn the

story around.' That was the biggest thing I had in my mind. I remember after that talk we had, we went..." To The Cheesecake Factory: I think, um, we were in the parking lot and it was like dark, and the stars were really pretty. I remember walking and thinking, "Do you see what this could become? We can be so great together, and I just know it. I can feel it; it just makes so much sense." We have so much working against us right now, but I know that this can be something so great. I saw glimpses

of it at times, but you know, it's funny—it's like I don't know what that is, um, because I'd never met anyone like him, so it wouldn't be pattern recognition. But I’d also never met anyone that I was so compatible with, and I think that was also part of it. I'd never met someone with whom we had so many shared interests, so much shared history, family history, and heritage; I mean, everything was just weird. We met randomly, and I felt like this is not how the story ends. I'm not that person who walks away when it's

hard. I get in there and buckle down. I'm all in! Dude, I just made all my friends quit their jobs to come work for us. We are both risking a lot right now, and I also was just like, I'm never going to be that partner that brings my man further down when he's already down. I want to lift him up and remind him how great he is. I think that's been incredibly useful for us as a couple. You know, a lot of times in a relationship, when one is down, the other gets weighed down by

that person, and then you're both in it. We've always been like, if one of us is down, the other one's selling them on why they're so good and bringing them back up. I think it's been really helpful for us over the years. That's really beautiful. I feel like if we're listening very carefully right now, there are 10,000 people on the internet crying because they don't have somebody like this in their life. Please correct me if I'm wrong here. I think Alex was feeling super down on himself; he's like, "I blew it again. All the money's

gone. We're in a deep place," and he's like, "We're breaking up." I thought, did he say that, or did I read that? He said, "I'm a sinking ship. You should leave me. You gotta leave me." I don't know many people who do that. Yeah, no, I'm going to stick with you. You know, the ship—like when you watch Titanic—it's a pleasure playing with you. Now I'm looking for the boat, 'cause what are we doing? Are we going down with the ship? I don't know many people who would say, "No, no, no, hold on. You're in a

low spot. I've seen you at your high. Let's get back up there, and let's double down again." I don't think anybody sees that. The biggest accomplishments in life that people hear of and know of—it's not like one person does it alone, you know? Even if you look at the most successful companies, it's three founders. And I think it's because of that; you need people around you when things aren't working that are going to be like, "I've got you." I want that from a partner, so I'm going to show it to them. What you guys have

is so rare, and I wish everyone had an opportunity to find this—where the other person only wants to see you in your best light, to never feel intimidated by your success, your beauty, or your fortune. Whatever it is, they just want more of you, because more of you is what they love. And then for the other person to feel the exact same way—it’s always something's off. I'm jealous, I'm envious, I feel guilty. But you guys do this, and when you see the ascent of both of you and how much you've achieved in such a short

period of time, it makes perfect sense. It's a beautiful thing. Yeah, and I think from a behavior standpoint, the more autonomous the person is, the more freedom they need to have in a relationship—whether it be in a job, a partnership, or a friendship. If I want autonomy, then why would... it’s almost like, um, I think a lot of people wish for a partner that they can control but also that has all the attractive features of someone who's autonomous. You can't have both. Because when people feel like they can control their partner because maybe they're a

little less something than them, it gives a feeling of security. But I've just never wanted that; I’ve always wanted someone who feels like when they're with me, they can be completely themselves, and I can be completely myself; and that we are together not because we feel like we have to be, but because my life is better with you. It would be great on its own, but with you in it, I like it more, you know? Okay, business stuff, if you don't mind. Yeah, and branding. I heard a staggering figure when he said this on stage,

and the hilarious thing is, it's way crazier than this number. Now, I think he said that you guys spent like $20,000 a month on your media content, branding stuff, and then I told somebody else, like Chris... You monkey! They don't spend that; they spend this. What is the current number that you both spend individually on media and content? I think in total, it fluctuates anywhere between $80,000 and $30,000 a month, and each — no, in total — okay. Uh, and then that's without like travel and all that stuff. Yeah, okay, so let's say it's for

round numbers $50,000 each. Sure, okay, you guys do the math. I think that's $600,000 a year. That L list, is that right? $600,000? Yeah, $600,000 a year, which is more than what most people make in a year, and you guys are spending so much money. You're shrewd business people. What is it that you're getting by investing so much? I think you guys keep saying, "We're going to double quadruple down on this because it's working." What is it that you're getting? Can you tell us the tangibles and intangibles? When we first started making content, there are,

I think, two reasons: one, we just wish we had documented sooner what we were doing in gym launch, and we felt like it would have been really helpful for people. You know, right when we were selling gym launch, I was like, "Man, you know, I saw Alex started making more general content for people that didn't have gyms." And then I was like, "You know, I wish." You people always ask me this question; they always say, "What woman have you looked up to in business?" and I always blink because I don't have one. It's always been

men. And so I've always been like, "Damn, you can't be that for other people unless they know who the heck you are." Right? And I know there's a lot of like 19- or 20-year-old girls out there who are looking for a woman to look up to, and I make it my mission to be worthy of somebody's admiration. But you can't do that unless you put content out there. So I think that's half of it. The other half is I see no world in which anything I want to build in the future wouldn't benefit from having

a personal brand. And if I can learn how to build a brand personally, I think I can also learn how to build a business brand to build many other brands. Because I think a lot of people look at the brand and they say, "Wow, it's so valuable," their personal brand, but the formula for building the brand is actually more valuable, in my opinion. And so it was something I felt was worthy of understanding because even in business prior, it's like I understood paid ads, outbound email marketing, affiliate marketing, you know, referral marketing — like I

understand all of that and how to do it, but I've never understood brand. And so we said when we started, when we sold our companies, we were like, "Whatever we do next, I think we should start a brand." It required us to make a decision that we would also give up a lot of privacy, which I think we both really liked at that point. It was a very different life we had. We lived in like a big house in a suburban neighborhood, you know, didn't make content, didn't leave our house much, didn't do much social

stuff, and our life is completely different now. And so I think how it's changed my life has been, I think, a net positive because I think that it's made — for me specifically, not Alex — my ability to build a team is so much easier. Because now when people go in the interview process, they can go watch all my content. I get people who have much more shared values with me much earlier than before, whereas before I would have to vet people out much more on the interview side. Now they vet themselves out by watching

my content. That's the first piece. The second piece is that, you know, Alex was the face of gym launch, so people always thought I was like his secretary. And so people would come because they wanted to work for Alex and then be like, "Oh, Lea runs everything; I report to her!" And I was like, "Oh my God!" And so it's been really helpful in that there's a — I think a more balanced culture team, because there's some people who were attracted to Alex and some that were attracted to Lea. I think that makes a much

stronger team because, like, we balance each other out, therefore the team balances each other out. I would say from a business standpoint, deals come to us rather than us going to go get deals. And if we do want to pursue a deal — like approach them — they answer because they know our brand or one of our names. Same with talent: if I can't necessarily find the person I'm looking for who has a very specific skill set, if I reach out to them, they answer. And so it's made a lot of things much easier to

do when it comes to business. It's made a lot of, I would say, like being on social media more positive because you can see the impact you have on people and getting to run into people and them telling you how much you've changed their life — like that's really cool. Um, I would say on the other side, I have a very large lack of privacy now, and I don't feel like I can leave my house without seeing somebody who has seen me on the internet, who snaps a picture — especially if I'm with Alex, 'cause

he wears like a costume, you know? You know, we probably get stopped six to eight times every time we go on a walk. Um, I think it's made me, I would say, in many ways, become a better person because you realize that, like, you can't afford to be in a bad mood. Uh, one, we now have an in-person headquarters; like, I can't afford to be in a bad mood in front of my team. Poor Jason probably sees it more than anybody. Um, but you know, me and Alex, I might be in a bad mood or

him in a bad mood when we're out just at the mall or at the grocery store on a walk, and then you run into somebody, and they just want to, like, this is their one time they meet you, and you're, like, pissed the off about something. I have just learned to just completely turn it off, just forget whatever's happening with me, and just be like they deserve better. And so, I think it's had a lot of net benefits for me. Um, I think sometimes I miss, like, being able to walk out of my house and

not, like, you know, be looking like shit and someone take a picture. Um, 'cause sometimes that happens, and I'm like, "You want a picture of me in my pajamas? I was walking to CVS," you know? Um, but I think it's overshadowed by the benefit, and I think more than anything, it's like getting to see people avoid the mistakes that I made while building a business, while navigating my way through my early life; like, that's the coolest part. Um, because all the rest of it, like, there's also, I mean, our businesses could work in different ways;

we wouldn't have to have a brand. But, like, I think it's cool to see the impact, and I think the only reason somebody should even pursue it is if they want to have an impact. Otherwise, they have to mean it because, again, I know a lot of people who will have a brand, and then they start getting the notoriety, but then they start losing the privacy and losing the autonomy, and they're like, "This sucks; I hate this." Um, and I can see how somebody might feel that way some days. That's why I think you have

to be really serious about what you want in life. And I think after we built Gym Launch and sold those businesses, and we're like, it was a monetary success, in my opinion, like a large monetary success, but it didn't feel like an impact success to me. An industry many would say yes, but I was like, I want to have a bigger impact than that. And I think that's what the content allows us to do while also benefiting us from a business standpoint. I don't think I'm alone in saying this. I think it'd be cool for

you to be out there with no makeup, with curls on, and in your sweaty pants and a stain on the shirt. I think that would be super cool; that would be a vibe I love as well. I'm just saying, so if you wanted to go to the CVS run, I think it's pretty cool, and somebody's like, "Look, she's so real; look at her." To be fair, I do; I just, you know, wear sunglasses, and then they're like, "Hey," and I'm like, "You recognize me?" Yeah, like, "Yeah, I can tell too." Let's talk about the costume

again, okay? Everything is in alignment except for the way the two of you see style and fashion. And I will say this to Alex when he's here; it's like, "Bro, I don't get it. I just totally do not get it. It's the strangest vibe." And then here you are, all put together, top to bottom. It's a total style mismatch. How do you guys, how does that work in your world? I'm just curious. Alex really likes to be functional, and by the way, when I say costume, uh, I call it his costume because he literally wears

the same thing every day. If he doesn't wear that, people don't recognize him nearly as much. Um, but if he wears that, he's always recognized. So I'm like, it's a costume almost now. Um, he's always been just function; like, the guy is very, like, when he wants something to be a certain way, I mean, we probably have in the house currently 55 pairs of shoes that he's tried. Uh, we've probably thrown away 1,500-2,000 pairs from the last year, uh, because he's like, "I got to get the perfect shoe." Uh, same with pants and shorts; "I

got to get the perfect short. I want them to be versatile. I want to be able to go to a wedding, go to a pool, get into a restaurant, go to sleep," and I'm like, "That's gross. Um, how about you take a shower, stay on your half of the bed?" Yeah, oh, 100%. He's just always prioritized function. I would assume it's probably also because, you know, many like Alex went to private schools, and he had to wear uniforms. And so I would also imagine it's like, it's probably, I mean, if you do that your whole

life or you wear the same thing, you never have to think about an outfit; you probably see that that's beneficial. And so I’ve thought about that; I'm like, "I wonder if that's where it comes from too," because you never have to worry about what you're wearing. Um, for me, I have always, and I still don't feel like I nailed down anything when it comes to style, but I've just found, like, what you wear clothing-wise is just fun for me almost. So, like, it's not that I’m always dressed up because... I'm not, sometimes I come to

the office just in workout clothes and whatever, or like sweatpants. But, like, I like dressing up, and I think part of it is also that in the last few years, I finally realized that I'm not 220 lbs, and I’m also proud of staying in shape and looking nice. For so long, I wanted to wear things that looked awful on me, and I think there's a sense of freedom in choosing clothing—seeing something that's cute and then putting it on and still looking cute, rather than looking like you're busting out of a bag. So, I think that's

part of why I like dressing a certain way. There's nothing deeply that I'm attached to. I might go a week without dressing up at all or I might go a week dressing up every day. I just do what I feel like, and I think it’s just fun for me. I literally think it's just turned into a little bit of a hobby, and it's just understanding—probably understanding the world of fashion, getting to talk to fashion designers, and speaking to people who design clothing. Coming out with, you know, some of the top people in the industry, understanding

the intent behind it is much more interesting. So, I'm going to throw a tough question at you. How would you describe your personal brand in seven words or less? It doesn't have to be a complete sentence. I'm just curious how you see yourself and your personal brand. A little weird, well-spoken for the most part. You could say masculine, powerful energy at times. Authentic, quirky, business, simplicity. Yeah, you mentioned weird a couple of times now. I'm dying! I have to open that door. What's the weird stuff? Oh, I mean, like, I watch the vlog footage and

I'm like, "What the...?" I have a lot of, I'm very expressive and have a lot of mannerisms when I’m just on a daily basis. So, when I'm watching the vlog footage, I make weird voices—constantly flexing my voice differently. Yeah, he knows to play different characters. You know, when I speak of my dad, I talk to my dad the other day, and he was like, "Sweetie, when I was talking to you," like, I do that all the time! Do I sound like that? I mean, he's a little nasally, so he's, "Oh, I just love you so

much!" I just do that all day, every day. Okay, and so when they do the vlog footage, not like a direct camera or an interview like this, I see it and I'm like, "Oh my God, I am not..." If I were watching this, I’m like, "A little weird." I told Alex, I was like, "How big is my viewer base?" Because I watch myself and I'm like, "A little weird." I just, I don’t know. I get it from my family; both my father and my mother are actually very expressive—huge facial expressions, large mannerisms. It's something that

I've probably been self-conscious of when I was younger, but then as I got older, I've learned to like it about myself because it makes you unique. But I do think it's quirky, because I would say a lot of women would probably not make such ugly faces. I can make some hideous faces, and I do it all the time. Poor Alex experiences it on a daily basis consistently. Sometimes I'm like, "How are you still married to me?" Okay, I have a question for you: What is your book going to be called, and what is it about?

I would love to write a book in like 15 years, and I want the title to be "Know Your Place." I want it to be about just building a business and how to build a business, but I want to mess with everybody by making the title "Know Your Place," so they think it's about being a woman. That's it! I've talked about it with Alex a few times. It would be about building a business from the ground up to over a billion dollars. That's the book I want to write. Why 15 years? Why so long? I

don’t have time right now. Okay, that’s fair. I mean, realistically, I’ve had a lot of people approach me—like wanting publishers, like they want to ghostwrite. I do not want to put anything out there that's written by a ghostwriter. I tried that with content for a little while, and it's nothing on ghostwriting in general; it works for some people, but for me, I've just realized I want more things to sound like me. If I wrote a book, especially my first book, I want it to be something that I write, and I want it to be when

I've built something that's been a billion dollars. That's the marker, then. When you do a billion, so you're setting the mark at less than 15 years? Yeah, I mean, it could be way less, but also, the business has to be worth a billion, and I have to decide that I want to write the book. So I just assume in the next 15 years, talking about financial goals, I don't know what the exact number is. I think there's a theory that it’s like if you—once you make... “Like, say $35 million from $35 to $100 to whatever.

It doesn't matter because we don't know how to spend that kind of money anyway, right? So, for you guys to work towards that billion dollars, what is the drive besides playing the game? The game is fun to play, but is there something bigger than hitting that number? Bigger? No. I think, you know, when me and Alex have probably days where we go around like, does it even matter to get to that and this and that? And I’m like, well, I don’t know what else I’m going to do until I die, and I would just like

to—I would really like to find out what it takes to do that. I think it’s just curiosity; it's like I really want to know what it takes. I would love for that to be the story, that I was able to do that. I feel like, because I’m also not going to do it in a way that’s gross, I’m not going to do it in a way that doesn’t benefit others. I’m going to do it in a way that benefits everybody around me; that makes people better, you know? That makes everyone that works for me better—people

that I interact with, our partners, everyone that watches our content. So I think, for me, it’s thinking like, I want to do it in a way that is so opposite of how most do it, because I think most people do it by stepping on others and making other people’s lives worse who interact with them. Especially private equity; people who buy businesses, they usually just like businesses that are after, and everyone that works there has it. The people who sold it are like, well, at least I got the money, and you know, they just financially bloat

the company with debt and then, you know, just let it maintain until it dies one day. I’d just like to do everything the opposite of that, and that is what sounds cool to me. And then the billion is just because then people will listen and realize that you don’t have to do everything the traditional way, and there is a way to build a company in which it benefits everybody, and you can truly have a place where people love to work and love to partner with your company. And like, all around, it’s a win for everybody.

That’s what’s cool to me: the process of doing it. And I think I don’t ever want to preach how I do stuff until I have the credibility to get behind it. And I think right now, you know, obviously we have like the $100 million offers and all that, so it’s like businesses that are of that size and below. But I would really love to set a standard for a much larger industry that’s in the billions because those are people who have a lot of influence over the market, and that’s really incentivizing to me. And yeah,

I mean, that’s really the reason why I pick that number. I mean, it’s honestly also like the next natural sequence from where we’ve been, so I mean that makes sense to me. And I’m sure after that it’s like, all right, now it’s 10 billion, 20 billion, 30—whatever. Or maybe I change my mind and want to live on an island, drink mojitos all day, I have no idea. But I don’t think so. Fast forward, you hit that number—is there anything you want to splurge on, like to buy that you can’t already buy today that you’re like,

hey, I did it, now I’m going to spend this money in this really fun way? Cause Gary, Gary Vaynerchuk talks about, I want to make this money so I can buy the Jets, and it’s this thing because he’s obsessed since childhood, right? And I think I want to make my money so I can go buy an art school and just convert it and make it, like, not free, but like super cheap and affordable. Yeah, so that’s what I want to do. So, what would you spend your money on? There are two things: There’s one from

a more charitable side, which is like we would love to be able to start a school. You know, like we’re about making real business education available to everybody, and I think the best place to do that is with a younger population. So, like, I think both Alex and I have a soft spot for teenagers and, you know, people who are not yet into college; they’re in high school. It’s like we’d love to create a school where they can learn the real stuff we’re teaching. So that’s on the charitable side. On the selfish side, I would

like a mega yacht. How big is this mega yacht? You think a mega yacht is big enough that you can fit another yacht and a plane on it? I love that! Do you like the ocean? Yeah, I do. I really like boats. And I also feel like, you know, it’s funny; people buy planes—they’re like, wow, if you—I’m like, oh my God, you can buy a plane for cheap! I could buy two planes tomorrow, but like a mega yacht, you got to have some you money to do that. So, I like that! Like, if I can

have that and a school, I’ve made it. I read somewhere that you had invested, I think, in three companies and got them to $120 million-ish in revenue. This blows my mind; it speaks about your chops as a CEO, as an operator. You know how to make businesses make more money. So, I’m thinking, like, what is it that…” They don't know that you know what it is that you get them to do that gets them to that next level. Can you distill down like the top three things? Well, I would say part of it is in

who we pick, so picking founders who have an unfair advantage. I would say that the most successful founders already have one skill—not a ton of skills—but they have one thing that they are not world-class at but incredibly good at, and they can be world-class at. You can see that potential in somebody, you know, and you can feel it, and you can see it in the work because usually, it's the engine for the company that has like that one skill they have that's crazy good. It's not just like, "Oh, like everybody else in the industry." It's

like they stand out. That's the first thing: all those people had that. And then they also had a really strong support system. So I would say you have a very talented one or two founders who have, you know, crazy unique skill sets that are advantageous for the business, and then they have supportive family and partners with them. If you don't have one of those things, it's really tough because you can have a team of three founders that are all good at something, and they could get a business that does like 10, 15 million. But if

they're not in a great market with a great skill set, it's going to be tough. On the other side, if you have a really talented person and they don't have a good support system, they often are their own demise; they sabotage themselves. You know, I would say success is a double-edged sword, and the thing that they're really good at usually also has these huge deficits, and they have nobody to cover them. So I think those two things have been traits in the founders that we've looked for. I do feel like we got really lucky with

a couple of those companies, to be fair. I really do, because it's not like every company we invest in skyrockets, and I don't want people to think that. Because I'm like, if you act like an idiot, it's nothing I can do; I'm not there every day. It's those two things, and then what we do is—I mean, the thing that's interesting is that we have Alex and I, and then our whole team. It's like we have Alex and I who are strategists that have complementary skills, and then we have our team of strategists in each of

their functions: marketing, sales, product, tech, customer success, people, whatever. So we basically identify whatever the constraint of the business is, whatever the reason it's not growing faster. We will just attack that first, and it's always different, it's always changing. We just make sure that we have somebody that's on it, and we know what the constraint is. So it's really a question of asking yourself—especially when a business is small, like a lot of them were when they came to us—it's like, okay, there might be seven things that are broken. Which one, if fixed, provides us with

the highest return? That's it. And so it's like, cool, let's start there, and let's not try and do six at once. Let's start there, let's do it this quarter, and then the next quarter we'll take on another. Most people, if they took that approach, would get way more done in a year than they take by like, "Ah, we gotta solve all seven right now." It's like, cool, you're going to move each of them an inch rather than completing each. So that's a lot of the approach that we take. I will say that each company is

different. So you know, one company we took on, a lot of our changes were strategic, and they were very skilled operationally and didn't need a ton of help scaling the infrastructure to, as you know, hundreds and hundreds of people. Whereas another company we barely made any strategy changes, and they needed all the help with the infrastructure; we built all the teams out. So it's just whatever the business needs, and I think we just understand business well enough to know what good looks like. So it's like, all right, we know, and if we don't know something,

I at least have a network where I can bring somebody else in who does, and that's a huge advantage. It's like somebody's like, "Hey, we've got this Python code; I don't know that." I will bring in my friend who I know is an expert in Python, and he will look at it. You know, I—it's also like, if we don't know something, and if we don't know a business, we don't invest in it. God, you know, there are so many businesses that want to partner with us, and I'm like, "Oh my God, I don't know the

first thing about this." They get on, they explain their business, and I'm like, "I don't even know what you just said." And I'm like, "Yeah, we can't invest in this business; I have no idea." And so we always take on industries that we understand and that our skills translate over to. So it sounds to me like, if I'm hearing this, your ability to pick winners because of your experience and knowing what the key ingredients are—that you can't invest in like once you have that—then we can help you. That's critical. And then it depends on if

they need a strategic point of view or they... Need technical infrastructure help? Then you can come in; you can help them solve that, right? Yeah. But I will say, like, I think it sounds much more glamorous than it is. There are a lot of companies that—I mean, I made a decision a quarter ago, and I was like, “I’m getting rid of the bottom three.” I was like, “I’m cutting them. We’re just going to divest.” It’s been a year, a year and a half, two years, and those were investments where we did not take controlling interest

because that’s what we did for most of the time up until recently. Um, like about three to four years ago, we changed to taking majority. I could not—you know, we cannot move things forward because of the person leading the company. And then, if the person leading the company won’t let us bring in somebody from the outside to move things forward, it’s tough. I mean, I take that on—mine; that’s my bad. Like, I didn’t pick right, you know what I mean? And so that’s a real thing, and I think a lot of people also don’t know

in most private equity, in like portfolio theory, which is like 80 to 90% of your portfolio, like revenue and profit comes from the top one to three companies in smaller portfolios. So it’s like how many companies do you have that just never...? The market changes, the founder becomes distracted, you know, the product never is able to get... that good competitor comes to market. It’s all the same. It’s not like because Alex and Lea touch it, it’s magic. And I hate dealing with that. Honestly, that was a quarter for me, having to like be like, “Yeah,

bye.” And they’re like, “Seriously? I thought you were going to help me.” And I’m like, “But you actually don’t have the capability to do this,” and I have never realized that. I suck for not having realized it sooner; that sucks. I hate it. It’s literally—Jason knows; I come out, and I’m like therapy with the content team. They’re like, “What’s wrong?” I’m like, “God, today I had to have this conversation. I hate myself.” But I don’t want to be like normal private equity and just be like, “Yeah, we’re just going to ride along and cruise, and

I’ll just take distributions and know that you’re not going anywhere, but I’ll just take the money.” I can’t do that. It’s not me. That would probably be a drag on your mental energy and your resources, right? Because it’s like these are not winners; let’s just cut our losses, right? I don’t want any money from a company that isn’t—you know, that I'm not able to help have an impact on. So it’s just—I mean, it’s different when you take controlling interest because it’s on you. Like now with the companies that we have the majority of, whether it's

doing well or not, we’ve got to figure out what to do, but we also have the ability to change everything at any point in time versus working through others. Very different. And that’s been interesting for me because, you know, I explained to you why we’ve picked the companies and why we got lucky with that. But at the same time, it is much harder than... well, now I have this brand and this ability to recruit people that have run insane companies that are insanely talented. And if I put them against—this is real—if I put those people

that I can recruit against most of the founders I speak to on the phone, who would I choose? This person. So then I’m like, “All right, does it make sense that I, with every company, take a minority stake and trust that the founder is going to guide it in the right direction?” There are still some companies—like even right now and some in the pipeline—where I’m like, “This founder’s got it. I just know,” right? And I’m like, “I would hire this person to run this company.” But if I wouldn’t hire the founder to run the company,

then why would I partner with them and not have control? You see what I’m saying? So I’ve taken a different approach where it’s like there are some companies in which it makes sense. If the question I can answer is, “I would confidently hire this person to run this company, outside of them being the founder,” then I think taking a minority interest can work at times. But also, for how much—there's other things to factor in, which is like how much work we do, how much time we spend on the businesses, you know, how much of an

advantage we provide to them. And if I want to be able to, like, one day put my brand behind them, do I do that for like less than controlling interest? I feel like the future goes towards no. This is super interesting. I’m glad you brought this up because, okay, you’re saying we’re pretty good, but we’re not magicians. There are going to be bad bets that we make, and then there are going to be the winners that skyrocket, and the ones that don’t work out... Do you record content around that? I don’t, because in fact, I’ve

never talked about it just because I feel really sensitive to not talking about something—it’s timing. In a year, yeah, I could make content about it, but I never want someone to watch it and be like, “That was about me.” I just... I’ve had it happen; it doesn't feel good. I'm really sensitive to people's feelings. There's been like two or three vlogs that I haven't posted, which are really fire vlogs, and I was like, "We cannot post these, maybe in like a year." The team's like, "Oh," and I'm like, "We just can't. Timing is so important,

'cause so much of what I do is so personnel-focused." It's like I don't know; I'm never going to sacrifice personal relationships for content. So even if it benefits others, it's like it can wait. It will benefit them in a year as well. So no, I haven't... I don't talk about investing a lot because I don't think it's relatable. I don't feel like I'm an expert yet because it's been only three years, and investments take five to ten years to pan out often. And so, you know, I know that I’m really... I am confident in my

business acumen; I have a lot still to learn when it comes to investing. And I also am... there’s just a lot, you know? I think that people over-romanticize it right now. I think there's a lot of people, you know, buying businesses and doing this, and I'm like, "Oh my God, come on." Like, it is just as challenging as running a business. There's nothing... it’s not better or worse; they are equal. There are different challenges on each side. And so, I also don't want to talk about it. I'll tell you this: I had somebody reach out

to me who used to be a client at Gym Launch. Then they said they started their own company, and I was like, "That's amazing! What are you doing?" And they were like, "Oh, well, I'm just doing what you and Alex are doing, taking P out of your book; I'm taking equity in these companies." And I was like, and that person was one of our bottom clients—just really loud. I was like, "That's scary to me that you would take equity in somebody's company when you're not even good at running your own. You know, you’re not an

investor, and you’re not a business person." And so I feel like it's really irresponsible. I have all my years of experience in actually doing business and then all of my anxiety to propel me to learn this very quickly, that like I don't like talking about it because it feels like it's a trendy topic right now, and it honestly just grosses me out. It grosses me out that people think that it's cool to teach people stuff that is high risk. Like, you are taking on all the liability. And by the way, if you can buy a

company for no money, it's probably a piece of junk. If somebody sells you their company for no money, you probably don’t want it; it’s probably a liability. And so I see all this stuff, and I'm just like... I mean, I obviously have opinions about it, but it’s... I also feel like I can't speak on it because people are probably like, "She just doesn't want us to do what they're doing, 'cause they've got the secrets." And I'm like, "No, it’s hard, dude. Like it's hard." It's kind of like we sold Prestige Labs, the supplement company, and

then someone asked me on a podcast, they were like, "Would you start a supplement company again today?" And I was like, "Never." And then all these people ragged on me, and they were like, "She just doesn't want us to make the money she made." And I was like, "No! It was awful! I mean, it's not a great business to get into." And so, it’s like, would I recommend private equity to most people just trying to make money and get into business? Absolutely not! You know what I mean? Like, absolutely not. It is very hard, and

a lot of people in the industry are very cutthroat. You have to be working with like the vendors and things; it’s just very different than business. But it’s hard. I feel like it's one of those things you talk about in the future rather than while it's happening, because nobody will believe that your intentions are pure. They’ll think that I’m coming from a scarcity mindset, thinking that they’re going to scoop up all the companies or something. Like, I don’t know; people say these things, though. I’m going to say this from a very selfish point of view

and maybe make a case for it: You talked about how we learn more from our failures than from our success; that we can learn more from criticism than from a compliment. I didn’t know that there are these businesses that you invested in that didn’t work out. I don’t know why; I just assumed that it always worked out. I would love for you to sit there for an hour and a half, and here’s what went wrong. Abstract all the names and things so that we can just learn alongside. Like, that's what makes you not investable; people

don’t do this! Stop doing that! 'Cause what we see is like, "Oh, they put in their magic and now it's a $100 million-dollar company!" Damn it! I'm never going to be that person. But in sharing, like, "Okay, here's where the owner did this, and we just couldn't get them to change their mind, get out of their way," because oftentimes, as you coach, I coach people too. Yeah, it's like, "If you could just do this one thing..." Get out of your own way; it would be magical and rainbows and everything, but you’ve got to stop, and

they don’t, and they can’t. You know they’re stuck, and we realized it too late, right? I would love to see that; it would be such good content! I know your sensitivity and your issues about ethics, but from just a very selfish perspective, I would learn so much by hearing you say that. Knowing next time, if I want Leila and Alex to invest in me, I cannot be that person because it’s going to fail, and they’re going to throw me out. That’s— I mean, not like those words, but you know? No, that’s fair. I understand what

you’re saying. I don’t think it’s a bad idea at all. I mean, I would love to— I would watch that; I’d binge-watch that all day long! Our postmortem on why a business succeeded, yeah? Like, here are the lessons; here’s what the entrepreneur did. You know, abstract the names, faces, market—whatever! Yeah, or the market. That’s a valuable lesson too. Everything should have worked, and it didn’t because we couldn’t see this thing coming. Yeah, I mean, the amount of businesses that we keep in our pipeline and keep in touch with, and then the market in the last

year— they’ve just dissipated into almost nothing, just based on a few people that were in unlucky markets. You know, what’s something that people would be surprised to learn about you? I’ll start. Okay, like I tell people I used to be into skateboarding. Oh, I didn’t know that! Your turn! I used to think I wanted to be a zoologist, so I had a ton of reptiles growing up. At one point, I think I had multiple different lizards and things. When I was like 14, I had like a 7-foot iguana, for example. So I’ve just always really

liked weird animals—spiders, birds, reptiles, snakes—like all of it. So a lot of people don’t know that I had all of those growing up, I guess. So people would come to my house, and they were like disgusted by how many animals were in cages, if that makes sense. I’m going to ask you five really simple questions. One word— I’m really not giving you what you want here. No, no, this is—I love this! Okay, favorite fashion label, brand, designer? I love Stella McCartney and Alexander McQueen. Beautiful! Okay, he knew, he knew, he knew! He’s like, “McQueen!” I

like McQueen too; he’s super expensive. I’m not there yet. Necklace— is that McQueen? Yes, it is! Oh my God, you do know your stuff! Okay, and number two: favorite series to binge-watch. So basic, but the Kardashians. Okay, okay, yeah, all right. You know there’s new information out there. Okay, favorite band or one that’s in heavy rotation? I know it’s always hard to choose a favorite, you know? Oh my God, I don’t actually know if I have bands that I listen to. Oh man, what kind of music do you listen to? Like, really inappropriate music. So,

I don’t— What do you mean? There’s no such thing as inappropriate music! I mean, yeah, like I would never share it because people would be like, “What are you listening to?” You know what I mean? Are you Belieber? What are you talking about here? No, I just think it’s, like, very— I like the beat, but like if you listen to the lyrics, it’s like, “Choke that on the floor from behind”— you know? And then I’m like, “Oh my God!” And then my team walks in my office, they’re like, “Le, what are you listening to?” And

I’m like, “I really like the rhythm,” but like, I don’t know. I just like it playing in the background. And then Alex will come in the car, and he’s like, “What the fu—?” You know, just like that kind of stuff. Okay, is that like speed metal? Is that what you say? I don’t know; maybe close to something like Tech N9ne, like that kind of vibe? You know, just like really aggressive and dark. But like I’m not listening to the lyrics; I’m just like, “I like the pace.” Okay, Tech N9ne. McQueen, I can see a picture

here. Okay, all right. What’s the thing that you hate the most about making content? You know, the first thing that popped up was that I have so many good comebacks to all these people that leave comments, but I’m too well-mannered to leave them. Oh, you should clap back; it’s fun! Just a whole laws of behavior— if I clap back, I reinforce them commenting. They want me to clap back. I will never give somebody what they want, but sometimes I’ve got such a good one, and I’m like, “Oh, I’m going to kill him!” And then I’m

like, and I have to tell Alex, and he’s like, “You’re a—” and then I’m like, “Okay.” What is the thing that you love the most about yourself? I actually love the fact that I am willing to be completely honest. Like, I think a lot of people, and I know because there are people who are friends of mine that make content, say, “I’ll really show, like I’ll say anything.” And it’s like, if I am asked it, I will tell the truth. And so I think it’s actually that— like, I really do think I am a truth-teller,

and I have tried hard to do that. I think that’s what I like the most about myself. But I think that there are definitely times... Where I feel like, based on the audience, how you tell the truth, I get nervous, you know? 'Cause, like, if I'm in a close room with just our team, talking about something, like I'm cracking jokes, saying things that aren't appropriate, you know, riffing, swearing, and it's like I always worry about that stuff getting taken out of context. This is super fun. Thank you for doing this! Great, thank you. If people

want to find out more about you, where do they go? How do they find you? I would say start with my podcast, "Build with Leah Horowitz," and if you like visuals, then you can go to YouTube and just type in L Horowitz. If not, you can go to any other social platform and type in Le Horoi, and you will find me. If you want to learn about how to start, if you're a beginner in business, I would say that we have a book, "100 Million Offers" and "$100 Million Leads," that you can find on Acquisition.

You can get your copies there, right? I've read both; they're wonderful books. I'm endorsing the books right now, guys. Thanks very much! Thank you, Chris.