Joe Rogan Experience #1691 - Yeonmi Park

Joe Rogan podcast check it out The Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day well very nice to meet you first of all so nice to meet you too thanks for coming here um is this your first time in Texas no I've been here before you've been to Austin before yes so for people who don't know your story I'm just going to give them a primer just to just to sort of uh establish your history you were born in North Korea and you escaped North Korea when you were 13 is

that a whole old you were um I think we should start off with what it was like living in North Korea um I saw your interview with Jordan Peterson and it was uh it was incredibly moving and it was incredibly disturbing and eye openening and um it's it's hard to believe for people people that don't know what life is like in North Korea the reality of you growing up in North Korea but just talking about how you essentially had no food and you would go looking for bugs to eat yeah this was the reality of

your existence as a child that there was no protein yeah what when you now that you live here in America and you can kind of eat whatever you want when you look back on that what does it seem like to you does it seem like reality does it seem like a dream what does your childhood seem like it's sometimes this feels like dream this feels like a dream yeah so I pinched myself a lot in the beginning because they say if it's not dream it hurts right when you pinch yourself so a lot of times

I pinch myself because sometimes I'm really horrified if I wake up from this that I'm going to be up in my living room in North Korea so it's sometimes that ly is very blurry to me and because the one common thing that North Koreans all have is actually in our dreams when you sleep it's back in North Korea so in our dream we somehow never able to escape it so every day my mom wakes up like she tells me about Story how she was back in North Korea and I have the exact the same thing

no matter what how many years we left afterwards in our dreams we are still in that country so that's the nightmare the nightmare is that you're still trapped in North Korea mhm when you lived there you didn't know that there was another way to live no it's um it's like here right now we cannot imagine a life in some different planet in the universe right we just don't know what their life looks like exactly the same thing I never knew the life in different planet could be like and and where you live lived in North

Korea there was no internet yeah there's uh very little electricity right M and how much education did you get I never even seen the map of the world so as even Asian I did not even know that I was Asian so the regime told me I was a kimil song race kimil song race yeah and then the North Korean calendar begins when kimon was born that's like two Tai one that our history begins so I don't even know what Jesus Christ is and I don't know anything before K so there was everything before Kim the

history was re raised for us and but the the thing is that we are hungry we're starving if you eat breakfast you worry about lunch if you make it to dinner you are not sure if you're going to make it to tomorrow so in that scenario who thinks about history you know nobody thinks about any anything other than surviving and that is why precisely gim dong keeping us starving mode even though the UN the international organizations begging to give food and formula to North people but Kim Jong is just saying no to the this food

Aid because he doesn't want us to be fed so he's purposely starving the people to keep them weak so that all they think about is surviving so they don't think about Revolution it's a Hunger Games it's like when I was reading this book Hunger Games I literally like oh my God this person copied North Korea there's a capar you divide into 13 different districts captar people have everything they need and on other provinces they on purpose they're being starved so only thing you can think of your Survivor if you are full in your stomach right

you're going to start thinking about meaning of life art what's out in the universe you can do all of that higher thinking when you are full in your stomach but when you're hungry angry the only thing that matters is your hunger when did North Korea become what it is now when did it shift to this totalitarian regime that's starving its people and puts people in these classifications like for one for one example one of the classifications is if your grandfather or great grand grandfather committed some sort of a sin you are perpetually punished for that

everyone in your generation your next generation all of them are guilty yeah forever There's No Redemption if the one person commits a crime in that family Clan three to eight Generations got to be purged how many generations 3 to eight Generations three to eight yes mostly commonly three but the people like who challenge the regime or challenge the leader then eight Generations get eight generations and then after the eight generation are they absolved no they all gone they're all gone by eight generation you even kill inlaws of somebody in-law so not even the blood you

get purged if your cousin somebody marrying the in-law of somebody so there was one official who escaped 35,000 people were purged a lot of them 80% of them did not even know that they were relate to this person wow yeah cousins of cousins somebody somebody that's how they find they get rid of the root of entire this clan when did this all start when kimon came into power so he was big Marxist and leninist and he was a communist so in the before the Korean war in 1948 that's when he began this uh in the

name of equality right let's take everything back from the capitalist let's nationalize the land get rid of private property but he made North Korea into very inequal Society dividing people into 50 different classes 50 yeah and the way the classes worked you couldn't marry up say like if you were a higher class and a man wanted to marry you if he was lower class you would then become a lower class as well that's how they prevent the mixing with the class so there's no marrying up you only go down so no matter what happens if

you are at a lower class you stay there forever forever no no chance of moving out of that zone and it has no it's not based on Merit it's not based on your performance it's not based on anything other than the way you were born M no this is when I was confused when I went to South Korea people say if you work hard in South Korea you are going to be get rewarded and that's when I thought W that is Justice because in North Korea doesn't matter what you do what you want to do

what your dreams are it's already determined by what your ancestors did but the thing is how do you choose your ancestor right like you can never choose your parents and you had no idea that there was any other way to live when you're growing up like this cuz I never seen the map of the world I didn't even know like the Americans how they looked like because we don't have Internet first of all we have only one channel the government you know controls every single contents we don't even have any we don't even have a

cookbook that's the thing as a Korean I don't even know what cookbook is I mean first of we don't have ingredients like how do you find half pounds of pork scalling blah blah right so cookbook is like pointless and not only that there's no fashion because I mean we don't have freedom to what we wear so even when I heard a job called modeling I was like what what is that so everything that I learned here is like all New Concept to me as a North Korean so when when you would eat where would you

get your food from so uh we so the land is government right house is there's no private property and but those farmers in the working in the collective Farm they smuggle it out and set in the black market secretly so those food we if we have money we go to Black Market buy you know corn starch those things but mostly we just go to Mountain to pick up plants flowers and like grasshoppers is the biggest protein source for North Koreans but the government doesn't provide any food for the people I heard they did in the

60s 70s but I was born in 1993 in October and that is right after Soviet Union collapsed so until then Soviet Union was subsidizing North Korea's economy heavily and China did the same but when they collapsed they stopped helping North regime so the regime policy was if we as long as keep the 10% alive who are in the capital our rule is successful so they were not going to do anything until 90% of population dies wow it's still there same same rule they have until the 90% dies out as long as we keep the 10%

alive we are not going to do anything intervene the starvation so there's no effort whatsoever to get food to the people they they it's not like effort they're actually actively preventing people to get resources preventing right now even last time the Biden was calling gim Jun can we give you vac sin and G said no South Korea was calling North Korea last year there's a big flood can we give you at least some medicine and K said no we don't want any medicine so because they don't want any aid from the West they want to

keep people as weak as possible exactly they want us today I was on the way here thinking getting up in North carea the child was challenging because every day you get dizzy from the starvation you get like here no is every single morning when you wake up it takes like 30 minutes to gather your thoughts to able to walk straight CU everybody's in that mode of starvation yeah so as you can see me I'm like very small I eat a lot I'm like still 80 pounds but when I was escaping I don't even know how

lit I was and North Korean men about 41 feet high they have to go to military women is mandatory men have to serve in the military 13 years mandatory and women is 10 years and most men are very small because of malnutrition yeah for10 ft 410 yeah wow and so so they just allow people to forge for themselves that's the idea like find your own food yes are you allowed to have a garden can you grow vegetables can you have animals what uh one of the executions that my mom saw was a a young man

was eating beef cow cuz he killed a collective Farm cow and he got executed for that is everything is owned by the state in North you don't even own yourself right so I remember going to South Korea people I got a gift one day and it was a planner so what you do what you're trying to do is a notebook and in North Korea like there's you don't plan your day you you don't get to plan what you do with your life like a week before a day before there's announcement from the government how you're

going to spend your day when what to eat where to go to work what to do when to go to sleep everything is determined by your own state so this guy was executed because he killed one of the state's cows and you're not allowed to have your own animals so you can't have like chickens or something along those lines they might hide it but last year gim Jong confiscated entire dog from the population all the dogs yeah that was because of covid-19 right no because he said it was a corrupt Western sentiment where we have

pets so he ordered to kill the entire dogs for the meat so get rid of dogs because even he just didn't like that it looks like Western having a dog having a real friendly relationship with animals so everyone's dog in all of North Korea was confiscated and killed yeah and what did they do with the dogs I don't know what the regim leaders did wow yeah so do they provide you with any food no no so you have to find food on your own and most of the food is wild food like Grasshoppers and flowers

that are edible and yeah so this is why the the most Bard thing is that regim initially said oh give us your land give us your freedom we are going to provide free healthy insurance right for the education Free Housing free of everything you don't have to what youbody anything the state is going to be taken care of everything but after Soviet Union collapse North Korea came idea like this idea is called a self reliance so you're relying on yourself but you can't Farm you no you you don't have land how do you farm you

don't have freedom there's no free market if my father was sent to prison camp because he sold the metals he sold the Dr initially he sold like rice dried fish clocks and trading is illegal it's not like he was selling weapons or drugs trading is illegal so how do you be self-reliant yeah so they just let you fig so the whole idea is just to keep everybody weak yeah it is so strange to someone who has been in America their whole life like me to even imagine that the same time I'm living here like the

one of the big problems in America is that people eat too much yeah I heard that isn't that crazy I was is shocked I never understood having too much can be a problem cuz I just never knew that could be a possibility of problem it's the number one problem here exactly how having too much is a problem I don't get it I think the what is the percentage Jamie what is the percentage of people in America that are obese I think it's large I think it's more than 50% I think it's uh and it's a

huge factor with diseases and I mean 78% of the people that are in the ICU for covid are obese what is it 42% wow 43% so almost half of the people in the country are are obese yeah meaning they eat far too much food yeah and for you MH that concept must be insane you might like you're in the upside down world like you're in right that's the thing is like uh it's like different plant the common law that I knew in North Korea doesn't apply here anymore and it is just so confusing to me

how hard is not to eat it's hard when you don't have food and you can find it and to me is that I don't know why that is so challenging could you do me a favor and just push the microphone forward yeah it's right in front of you there you go so yeah it must be yeah like another planet the idea of having too much food yeah and that's the the source of I mean they're complaining about it so I'm like even that is a a reason for complaint that's something unbelievable I just don't get

it how is that it's so easy if you have too much don't eat it you just don't put it in your mouth right no one is forcing you to eat a lot yeah but food is addictive and people like to comfort themselves with food when it's everywhere and it's also it's it's a strange problem right the problem of excess it's a strange problem like you have too much but this is a I mean Humanity all our Humanity we've been starving yeah it's the very first time humanity having this much access and I have some compassion

for that but you know a lot of problems like I met American friends in New York I went to school there and like my friends complaints I couldn't sympathize in the beginning I literally because their problem is like some guy they went on Dat and they don't call them back and they call me and complain like you know like there's a people actual problems like life and death yes this is not a problem but well it's an issue of perspective right like your life you've seen horrific things whereas so many people the worst thing that's

ever happened to them is someone broke up with them yeah yeah when you were talking about going to the doctor when you were a child and that this is a very very disturbing story but I I want you to try to explain it to people how people were dying in these hospitals and rats would eat the eyeballs of the people who were dying and children who were starving would eat the rats and then the children would die and the Rats would eat the children yeah explain what this was like that you what what how how

did you see this well I mean seeing that the body is on the streets like everyday thing it was um where were the bodies like just laying around on the streets Al so they are floating in the rivers and then they also train station somehow had a lot of dead bodies because North Kore is very cold and there's a train waiting area and North Korea has one train go to one distance like a once a month and like here it would take like 1 hour to go the other place in nor you take a month

at least to go because there's no electricity and sometimes people have to push the train they have to push the train yeah yeah traveling in North Kore is unbelievably difficult thing within North Korea so uh I mean anyway so in train stations that's when people die mostly and in North Korea the hardest thing as a child for me is that when my mom goes away to find food like we don't have call like we don't have phones we don't have letters if I say goodbye to her I don't know when I'm gonna see her again

or if I'm ever gonna see her again because she could have cared and like raped and starved you should never know how to find people so in the you know in the morning when you go like walking the train station they just put the Pires of the dead bodies and they're all like become rigid right they're almost like the like wood par and taking away and one but the thing is for me I didn't even know the word compassion like nobody told me you have to feel bad for it cuz for me it's like like

fish in the water don't notice the water right like that was like something every day I saw as a child so you you never went days where you didn't see this is a normal thing to see dead bodies it was every day as as as like normal as like breathing the air right now and one thing that I remember is sister my my sister and I was walking by by the water like in norol we don't have a switch we don't have running water obviously we have to go to w or river to bring the

drinking water and there's a young teenage boy I think lying down and his intestines coming out of his uh back when you really managed that thing all opens up you got zero zero fat every Hall all opened and and you see doggy like dogs looking at his organs coming out and he was just somehow conscious begging for food at the time he was begging for food while his organs were hanging out of his body yeah and I don't know why he was like pan off and I feel nothing that's still haunts me to say like

I don't know how I feel nothing at that point and that just looked horrible and because you just the fact that he's alive and so much flies flying by on his organs and how he's somehow consciously begging for food and I I didn't feel anything you have felt no compassion no it was just normal yeah it's yeah so that's that was like daily life thing and then in the hospital when I was 13 years old I my parents took me to hospital CU I was a bad stomach and then we don't have like x-ray machines

we don't have none of that doctor WS your belly and then he says oh we need to operate on her I think her like appendix or bursting or something so that afternoon they they C me open without any anesthesia and but it's normal thing people in North gek operation without anesthesia but the chances of you going to surgery is a lot higher for you getting infected because we don't have Penicillin the nurse is using a one meter to inject every single patient so who do you know what the other person has you get from actually

more sick by being in the hospital right and this is where we don't of course have indoor bathroom for the patient we have to go outside and in between there there's a Pires of De human bodies and that when I was seeing this uh somehow rats eating human eyes first for some reason cuz they're probably soft and E eat and this women I don't know in my age probably short hair wearing this flower pants and when they're the all like their mouth is somehow open and their all eyes are Hollow and you see children like

looking at the rats and laughing and chasing them and the door's telling them like don't eat those you're going to get sick from it but of course kids don't care like even finding a rat is delicacy cuz even finding a snake is a it's so it's a big prize you don't find those like often so they were finding the rats and then just trying to eat them yeah were they eating them raw sometimes if you find a skin you do but they do find some like fire and roast them so they were excited to find

a rat to eat so they catching them with their hands yeah oh yeah of course they do catch them the hands and and this part of human bodies like she was on top that's why I was able to see her wearing this flower and pants till this and then like her eyes are so Hollow it's like when you look at the human body like nothing is left I think that's what it's not like just death is sad it's just like how it becomes nothing so empty inside she does not know the shame or pain just

she was lying there like that and you see children just chasing them and laughing and try to catch the rats and the children didn't feel anything being around the dead bodies just was normal no it's our daily normal thing seeing a death is like our daily life and they would eat the rats and then they would get sick and some of them would die yeah a lot of them die and then the rats would eat them yeah it's like the cycle we talk about it's like that's a spring is for nor season of death and

so the diseases that they would get from the rats they were willing to risk those diseases just because of hunger cuz when you there's a uh North Korean proverb there is no wish for the person who died after their stomach is full so even the in midle of the earthquake the north Kore not Tred to run so my mom was talking about the terar when she was in the University there's earthquake happening and do you know what this students doing is not running out of the building and try to survive they go to kitchen so

before they die they eat at least so they can die so if you have that promise of eating a one mirr they're going to risk everything for that so it's just a an entire country in a Perpetual state of starvation yeah it's I remember playing with this game with my sister as a young girl I never ate till I felt full so I would compare myself I tell her like I can eat 100 bread and she's like I can eat the mountains of bread I can eat like 10,000 more than what you just said because

I don't know the limits on my stomach I never tested it so you always were hungry always hungry never fful so you escaped your so your father was arrested for trading in in medals right and he was what he was just trying to find resources trying to get money for the black mark for food and things like that is that what it was to get us alive he he had to because regime does not provide food for the people so they had to break the law which is trading to survive right without trading how do

we even survive so he was trading these matters and he got and that he got caught and that's how he sent the prison camp and how long was he in prison for several years but he was sentenced more than 10 years so uh I think he was totally in prison 34 years but he got out of her sick live which is had to go back once he got better but of course in North Korea that's like who who cares you die he was very smart guy so he tricked the guard saying if you get me

out for the sick leave I'm going to get you money cuz North Korea is the most corrupt country that you can find right now in today's world so corrupt so he tricked the guard told him that he'd get him some money and so he was in for how many years you said four years three four years yeah and what what was it like when he got out I didn't recognize him when he came back to me I did not know that was my father even his voice changed it's it's um when I call North cream

until this that I do have a people underground I get information you their voice is different it's like the their voice is so oppressed you can tell this is North Korean is speaking you can tell just by their voice yeah that's the thing when some Chinese like we have the Brokers try to trick Us by voice we can tellar if we are Chinese like Korean ethnic Chinese living in China trying to trick us or actually North Korean is speaking to us wow so you can actually hear the oppression in their voice yeah you can what

does it sound like it's a complete fear like terrified to the point they don't even know they're terrified they're like I don't think even bug would be that scared like he was calling me like on M in his voice I didn't see my father and he was so scared and I could see he was so scared I was like only nine something 10 I don't even know I was like young and I could say why is he's so afraid and so he he does get out and they never put him back in jail again cuz

I rescued him after I went to China I got him out so so he had to go back he had to go back to jail but he died in in China so you were 13 when you you and your family you was it you and your mother that escaped yeah how did you get out so the hospital right initially my sister and I was going to escape but when North Korean say when you are escaping of course we don't have phones we don't have map we don't know what's the outside world look like right luckily

I was living in this Border Town of North Korea by then so at night do you know if you see the satellite photo of North Korea it is the literally the darkest place on Earth yes we don't have electricity so I was seeing this lights coming from China so we I thought like if I go where the lights or we would be finding some Bott of rice so at 16 my sister left with her friend and she left me a note while I was in the hospital and got like removing my appendix and then as

soon as I got out of the hospital I found a note and initially my mom and I went to look for sister where she went but when we found the lady she told me that she could help me to go to China that day and so this was you and your mother and you were 13 years old yeah so how did you get across and what is that what was that experience like so uh this is uh so I told my mom like come with me to China and she my mom was like you know

father is like my father was home he was waiting but the thing is this the tragic thing for North we cannot even say goodbye to our loved ones so if we got caught on the journey and if my father knew that we were escaping he's going to be punished so much so it's better off that he does not know that we are escaping for his own safety cuz they're going to torture you to the point that you're going to say anything cuz they do this all conscious like torture that they make you not sleep in

a single room has like no air much air if you put there for 40 days alone you go crazy you say whatever they ask you so if you he actually knew that we escaping it wouldn't good for him he would be dead so I told him I'm like you cannot tell father that we are escaping so that day we climbed up this like several mountains and then we went to the the Riverside but she had a connection with the guards why did you not bring him with you cuz he's a man and he was sick

and somehow she said only women can go only women can go I did not know why what she meant by that she's like you should just go with your mom and don't even tell those people that's your mom she said like you are like 18 or something and my mom was something dir so she told me that our wage was age was different so and this would somehow another help help you when you were going across yeah how would that help you I don't know or she told me what this is going to be helpful

and well part of the issue is um in China there's a a disproportionate number of men in comparison to women yeah and so they want as many women to come across as that are uh of legal age like women that can be married or can right is that the idea behind it it's it's a smuggling so like you got it right because of one child policy right a lot of girls got aborted in China so they kept boys now so there's many many men that have no chance of ever finding a woman because there are

no women yeah over 30 million men in the rural areas cannot find the wives so they 30 million over 30 million and it's number going to keep going up right now so that's a big problem for Chinese region but the thing is even that they don't allow North Korean women to stay there they catch us and they send us back to North Korea last month China repatriated 50 North Korean def factors back to North Korea it it's sending them our shits literally they are sending them to death camp but they Chinese regime still do catch

us and send us back because they think we are posing a threat to the regime and they don't want the regime to collapse so they are catching all all the defectors but the human traffickers seize the opportunity here because we are so vulnerable right we are running away from Chinese Authority so even they rape us and kill us the last place that we are going to go is going to police and then report on them why do they think that women coming over from North Korea are going to somehow or another collapse the Empire cuz

uh that's what Kim Jong believes he thinks they're going to collapse through to the defection through the defectors so after gim came into Power he literally the country cannot afford the electricity Pro Electrify defense the entire border not only that putting the machine guns with the guards have a shoot to kill order whoever crosses they don't even bother to ask you stop they shoot you right there and not only that he buried the land mines on top of that so there's electric fence and then there's guards shooting to kill and then past that there's landmines

yeah yeah entire country became a concentration camp entire country when did they start putting the landmines in a few years ago so this is after you had already escaped yeah now there's no you can't you don't see North escaping from North Korea anymore is it impossible to escape at this point um one of the more horrific things that um Jordan and you discussed was you seeing your mother raped and that your mother sacrificed herself because they wanted you yeah and this was the first time you had ever even seen what sex was so I didn't

even know that was sex I did not know even that was rape because we didn't have the vocabulary in North Korea so in North Korea there's no word for stress because there's no word for stress because how can you be stressed in the Socialist Paradise so there's no world trauma there's no world depression because you cannot be simply depressed in so is Paradise there's no word for Liberty there's no word for human rights there's no word for rape or even sex so I I just thought something I was seeing was horrible but later they told

me that was rape I did not know that was rap but you also said that you never heard the word love yeah no there's no word for love in North Korea so your mother never told you she loved you you never told your father you love him yeah none of that so in nor there's even no word for I so they don't want people to be individualistic right that's the worst thing you can be it's all a collectiv vision so when North Korean say I like water I say we love water we love kimchi so

that's how when I in South Korea they would keep saying in South Korea there's difference between we and I so when you say I like this say I and then of course all the North Koreans keep saying we love this country and South Koreans get so frustrated that we are keep misusing I and we and that's that's how regim controls your minds through language it is George 1984 they create double speak yeah why language is so important because it controls your thoughts so that's how I got rid of the romantic love we don't even know

possibly another human can love another human only love that nence no it's like a rform love that when we describe our feeling towards the leader and we don't know that word can be used to describing our feelings to another human when Kim Jong e died and um people were crying in the streets and people were sent to prison for not crying enough yeah what it was the strangest thing for us to watch As Americans because it was performative where people were performing they were they were they were not really crying they were they were wailing

In This Very theatric way to let everyone know that they were complying MH it's uh your life is on the line people watching you if you don't mourn enough that's the thing there if you don't mourn in the most extreme High they're going to send you to prison G and execute you so we are doing it to survive did you see anyone who didn't mourn enough no I mean you it's impossible how do you not mour enough how do you not possibly that's the your life generation is depending on you when you more so everyone

knows this of course and everyone knows it's a threat even babies know even babies know when you're born in North Korea you know what it is you don't like study questioning it's I mean the first thing my mom told him as younger was not even be care of strangers be care of you know car like none of that she would say be careful your tongue because that is the most dangerous weapon you got in your in your body don't even whisper because the birds and mice could hear you so that's the first thing you hear

from your parents how dangerous what you say is going to be did you personally see people that you knew get imprisoned because of things that they said they just disappear like um one of my sister's classmate her mom when they executed and then because they accusing her to receiving money from the for on CIA or the sou intelligence but a month later they they said oh it was not a problem she was not spy so they brought the family members back out of the Concentration Camp so they killed her for nothing and they don't even

say sorry to that it's like we don't even know that's a concept government can be sorry or they can ever make a mistake so how did they find out that she wasn't really a spy we just don't know just one day that classmate came out and my sister classmate came out and then she they said like her mom was not a spy so they got out of the prison camp and that's it there's nothing nothing reward none of that and so this was a common thing and you just lived in constant fear it's a this

is the thing and I we are three people sitting here right I'm watching you and he Jamie is watching me and you're watching somebody else so even I'm being a nice person not going to report on you I know Jamie is being watching watching me he's not report on me but even if he tried to be nice but he knows he's being watched by somebody too so you're being spied on and you're spying on somebody so no escape and everybody has to report absolutely anything that they find like if you said something negative about the

government I would have to tell on you otherwise I would get in trouble yeah and the other person don't report on you that person get in trouble there's no way out of it that's how they create distrust like one thing I shocked to me when I came to the West like how trust exists in North Korea there's a saying like don't even trust your own back cuz you can you don't know who is a spy you don't know who is listening who is watching and people just disappear yeah just disappear and public executions happens in

the stadium next to Market where most people go and in North there's no concept of minor right there's no concept like miners cannot do labor like that's not a thing as a child is 7even years old you go to school you work you go to working the Dam Construction in the farm and you mining Earth so therefore when there's public execution happens you're on the front line because you are the shortest to stay line up five six years old in the beginning and then like in the age going s like all it's a mandatory to

attend so you it's mandatory to attend public executions yeah and how did they kill the people after Kim jongan got in power he became more brutal how he cares people he used the this uh the air like a missiles that shoot down the airplane that kind of powerful weapon so when he kills people they blow into pieces like they literally become just red pieces and fireworks that's how it that's what I hear from now noway executions but my time was more the guard standing and shoot you here here and three times nine shots and then

it body becomes like a world world world and then like they just put in a luggage and take it off but nowadays I heard they are using way more they they are started hanging too before my time was just execution but gim Jong said even the bullets we don't want to waste on this like trash they call us trash and so just hang them and like or like Stone to death so bring the people around the town and hit them with the Rocks until they die so the people in the town would contribute to the

execution they would they would be the ones throwing the Rocks yeah otherwise you get punished you have to and what are the crimes that you could be sentenced to death for is as as little as so in North Korea every room has to have a portraits of Kims and then inspector comes out of nowhere in the middle of night and then touch the portraits if they see any dust they say your royalty is not high enough and then you can get executed in the prison camp through reg generation of your family and so the picture

is Dusty you get executed yeah and if your house get on a fire the first thing is not you run with your family or your children or parents you have to protect the portrait with your life otherwise the three generation gets punished for that even murderers rapist North Kore don't exist we don't even know what rape is I mean they have pleasure Squad right every year they go around the country pick up the virgin girls bring them back to P make them call a satisfactory groups train them to become sex machines every year they do

that so these officials now the guy who's in the second power in North Korea is name is Cher young he has his own pleasure Squad and he takes entire teeth out of this girls so when they kiss him down there he has more pleasure so these things is not a crime in North Korea like it literally when women walk down if the guys stand you and rape you you cannot go to police you got raped it's your fault so this country I mean every H every wives get beaten by husband in North Korea this is

not a crime but if there's a newspaper there's a portrait of Kim jongan right in Kim Jong you didn't see the front page in the back page you ripped it by mistake that's how you get executed that is what we call crime in North Korea wow having escaped that and looking back on it now and knowing knowing that it exists right now what what can be done what could the rest of the world do I mean North Korea has nuclear weapons it's uh they have a powerful military yeah what can the rest of the world

do to stop this from happening because it seems like this is horrific it's a it's a form of genocide and it's happening right now it's a Holocaust in 2014 un conducted this investigation for the year and the conclusion was the only resemblance that we find in our history what is happening to nor people is a holocaust so Holocaust is happening again and of course we are denying it again right when it was Holocaust was happening a lot of people say how is that possible it's so hard to believe that and North Korea using this concentration

camp this people do the biology test they put them in the guest Chambers right now they do that a biology test test what's the biology test they test a lot of uh the weapons biology weapons so they you know keep TR trying to there are North Korea spends entire their GDP on developing nukes and the weapon Aries I mean they they are the biggest provider to the Middle East when there's a war they buy Mees from North Koreans North Korea makes money by selling as I mean the crystal meth and OPM that's how Kim makes

money and hacking right he steals a lot of Bitcoin and get a Banks like ATM machines that's how he makes money cuz they don't export anything other than drugs and weapons and hacking and human trafficking so they experiment on their own people to find out if these biological weapons worth yeah and also they need a lot of concentration like prisoners because they have to caim the nuclear debris because they do a lot of tests like U so since 20 17 North Korea conducted almost 30 missile test if the one test missile caus to feed 25

Millions entire year so he he chose do four like less test nobody had to die from in North Korea from starvation and right now Kim zong recently admits that 11 million North Koreans are severely Manish and he's proud to say that and he's he's not even like bothering to hide in like in the past okay yeah they are starving and he's fat oh yeah that's is a problem being too fat wow so they they're forced to clean up nuclear waste from these test sites yeah and of course they die from radiation of course they don't

last three month normal life expectancy when you go to concentration camp is three month three months yeah so they need a lot of those people and they just use those people for fodder yeah how many people are do they know how many people are in these concentration camps nobody knows exactly but uh 700,000 of them but there's also prison camps concentration camps prison camps and labor camps and some people are born into these camps yeah those are people in the concentration camps and they don't even get to know the name of Kim or kimun they're

too too below the level they don't even bother to tell them who's the leader of the country chees and what did someone in their family do that would allow them that would make them get put into these concentration so they find out later their great great grandfather was uh working with the Japanese for like a week when the Japan was colonizing or the Korean was starting they were talking to American soldiers or they were they like like cousins of nephews of like some in-law was a Christian cuz North Korea is number one Christian pers persecution

country because they copied the Bible right they said oh Kim your son loves us so much he's a God he gave us his son Kim jir and he dies but his spirits with us all the time that's why they can read my thoughts he knows how much hair I have and that's how so when you become a God you don't need to explain you don't need to make sense so they essentially use the story of the Bible for Kim Jong and give me yeah they copy the Bible exactly copy the Bible wow that's why like

I believe that Kim was reading my mind and me if the people believe in the he like that J just knows what you're thinking why do you think is surprising that North Koreans believe that so someone's great grandfather speaking to the Japanese would be the reason why they would be raised in a concentration camp and never even be told the name of the leaders yeah and that's happening right now oh it's been happening for the last almost 80 years yeah this has been going on and as users ask what can be done Kim cannot last

even one week without Chinese regime support the only reason the regime exists is because of Chinese Communist Party how do you test missile without o Kim cannot even drive his b in P China refus to not helping the regim they keep helping gim keep sending the even last year the New York Times cover the ship oil the ship is full of gas oil going to North Korea so Kim could test missiles even even on me the pandemic why does China support North Korea I really really I think one is they don't want that democracy come

to next door right that South Korea Japan America is all right next to North Korea geographically and North Korea is like this almost like a buffer zone for them for this Western movement coming into their country and also they think of North Korea more like Tibet or Shang if they let North Korea go then Shang people going to want to go Tibetans going to be independent Hong Kong's want to be independent so they cannot give up any one of them so because of that stability and SYM symbolic thing for the Chinese people in the within

the country wants to be independent so they are want to maintain North Korea forever and now said that relationship between China and North Korea is that the relationship between your lips and the teeth without lips you cannot really close your mouth and eat without your teeth you cannot chew so you need each other to survive and that's how Ma's son died in Korean War by defending Communist Party in the north that's how MA lost his son that's how he believed that they need North Korea and so the the Chinese Communist party today shares a sentiment

and they're they're using it strategically yeah they run the dictatorship in North Korea they run the whole thing and that's the thing like it's we have not been solving North because we we just never named the accountability who is responsible for this crisis that is China and of course in American mainstream they do not want to call on North Korea China to committing you know genocide that's why I've been having so so many attacks from Marxist communist and maist and leninist all these people and North Korea is almost this last country that holds ideology called

to socialism so it's a very symbolic country so a lot of um empathizers of Communism and anti-western civilization people they defend North Korea like hell but do they when when they speak of it like the Chinese Communist party when they speak of North Korea do they have a distorted image that they project of what it's like in North Korea do they have a uh do they change the narrative do they have a story of North Korea that's false that makes it seem like North Korea is a nice place no they know exactly what's going on

they know even Chinese people know uh when I was so there's no defending it no no even Chinese people see it like uh when North Koreans get captured they Chinese is still better nice than North Korean guards they like handcuff off so I blinds us but North Koreans come and the put the wire in between here in between your bones so connecting all the prisoners together so they cannot run like cows and they put a wire like through their collar bone yeah so they they prevent us to escape so why we are in China that's

when The Outsiders is watching but imagine what they're going to do inside the country when there's no camera so this is what China does to North Koreans now China Catches Us and give us to North Korean guards and they watch it and they watch them do that and then they they they even horrify but of course they don't do anything about it they like you don't have to go that far but of course North Koreans do not accepting defection right that's why we are defectors we are not refugees when we escape we defy the ideology

yes that's why this is North Koreans are not just refugees they are political prisoners they are political refugees they should be covered by Geneva Convention and international law so China catching a sentence back that is a crime against humanity they're breaking the international law but that no one will punish them for that and nobody going to talk about it even here in the west right why I mean there's a Michelle Obama right Nobel Peace Prize giving the girls like captured by ISIS or like Taliban like Malala M Obama stands up for the girls who were

captured by you know Isis and bah Haram who is standing up for North Korean girls being captured and raped in China right now there are 300,000 North Koreans right now when we are speaking in China and our sexual slaves 300,000 yeah and most of them are women and girls China has incredible power yeah and when you see the the the power that China has and that they're supporting North Korea and that there's no push back from America yeah what what does that feel like to you when you see this knowing what you went through and

not only knowing what you went through but the fact that you talk about this openly you talked about in your book that came out in 2015 yeah and you you speak about it as often as possible but yet there's not a lot of support from especially from political leaders there's no there's no one is stepping up to say your story yeah it's total hypocrisy it's I mean all these people in America talk about how slavery is wrong I agree slavery is the worst thing that we can do to another human being but why some slavery

matters over some other slavery right like right I mean all this corporations talking about how they do not support the bigotry and racism and slavery it's happening right now in China and they have business with China and they don't say anything about you know like this is the thing when Hulu made a movie about desent no about assassins about Kim Jam's assassination three years ago in Malaysia remember the Kim Jones half brother got yes so they made that movie Hulu was supporting to make that movie he killed his half brother and someone else too right

and his uncle his uncle yeah so his brother is more shocking because he got killed in the international territory and know like VX Nerf that the poison and they made the movie but when the Hulu was bought by Disney Disney wanted Hulu to drop that movie so that movie couldn't be shown in Hulu so because it would offend China yes why there is not even one single movie coming out of Hollywood about North Korean people suffering they made about Congo gen they made all about genocide not about North Korea that is a strange hypocrisy isn't

it of course it is and it's about money right absolutely it's all about money all these people talking about Justice what they care about I mean none of them do when in real life and this is not these are not secret stories it's not I mean so this is the thing oh don't make it up I'm Kim J kills his uncle right that was on the national newspaper he kills his h brother and look remember the auto the American 21 years student yes he was accused to stealing the banner mhm he was brain dead the

time he got to America beaten to death right yeah and he was sentenced for 15 years in the labor camp for trying to steal the banner but this is a country that did to White American mayor to the most powerful country citizen imagine what they're going to do to their own citizen you can you can't even imagine what they do to their own citizen so North Korea this like nationalism is to the highest so when North chin North Kore men go to China get raped and we get pregnant when we will go back to North

Korea the guards kick out of belly until baby dies they don't let the baby leave they they yeah it's it's just unbelievable this is happening in 21st century and still why we can't we somehow don't talk about it not just don't talk about it but it keeps going generation after generation yeah I mean if it's been happening like this for more than 80 years yeah what's going to stop it from happening for another 80 years and if people are quiet nothing it's going to keep going and this is what is to me is as an

activist right I'm a dist I'm I'm fighting against this regime we know when Jamar Kashi get cared in Saudi culate there's no accountability for the dictator right sah Prince he didn't get anything when Kim zung killed his half brother in Malaysia nothing there were like there's no accountability that we are asking of these people so standing up fighting it doesn't incentivize people anymore right so you don't see Justice being served and I think that is why is is so hard to find now because I people think Justice is there but I don't think it is

that it's something I don't see in real life when you actually fight against Injustice it's most likely you're going to be just like get cared and nobody cares and just keep moving on what can be done I mean if if the United States and the relationship the United States has with China they're unwilling to do anything or even speak out about it when they talk about the problems of the world North Korea is rarely discussed and the horrific Crimes of the North Korean regime against their own people rarely discussed by politicians they'll talk about Afghanistan

they'll talk about Iraq they'll talk about all the problems we have with Iran they don't talk about what's going on right now MH what you're describing in North Korea with these concentration camps and these people they don't talk about these things yeah what can be done I think by talk I think this is a beauty of a living in democracy like when I go to hor food right coming from North Kore I'm shocked by how many handwashing is like by I mean all about like environment friendly products mhm right and that means a lot of

people want to support this cause right right that they won't I me look at how many vegan restaurants are popping up in New York so a lot of people demand that now mhm so if individuals are being educated on what is happening and who is actually responsible for supporting North K region and how hard it is for the people who are being oppressed if they start demanding the politicians and the world leaders and companies to be conscious and act I think that is at this point my only hope is individual I have stopped trying to

talking to un I don't even give talks anymore at the UN did you give talks in the past yeah what was the response they in Geneva in September the human rights General Assembly meeting how dumb of them they literally P me alone to right next to North Korean delegation team because geographically we are someh close so these Five Guys from nor delegation team are sweating in me and the UN that's what they do that's how d they are they sat them next to you yeah they put me right next North Korean delegation team and no

protection no I was so scared that going to like hotel room that night CU I don't have like anybody protecting me so I have tried of course but at the UN who decides the human rights violators Chinese and Putin and Saudis do they decide who actually violates human rights that's crazy yeah so I have to go ask Chinese who actually committing this crime and complain that of course they're not going to listen to me so what is the even point of the UN for this right and of course I mean I met Nan Pelosi I

met a lot of politicians and on Surface like oh that's really horrible let me think about what can I do but of course this is not what they care they they care about the systemic oppression that is happening in America more they care about what's going to get them votes yeah and what's popular what's what's on people's minds right now and what whatever the narrative is that they're currently pushing yeah it's going to allow them to get elected again yeah it's all about their own interest so when you spoke at the UN what was what

was the reception like oh they are saying like this is the West propaganda trying to interfere other people's autonomy in North Korea a state of or their own you should not interfere the other people's Affairs that's like still to this day Chinese narrative right they don't don't ask us of what we are doing to sang we or fall gong or like organ trafficking all of that it's our own business organ trafficking yeah so when North Koreans go to China we ending up like several different sources worst cases they take us and they take our organs

out and sad and we die like what which organs everybody your eyes Hearts Li liver all of it they sell them of course North in China you order the organ it gets to you within 3 hours how is a the past how somebody dies mously in 3 hours for you like nor China is the do you know how many hospitals are being built for for the organ transfer in China how many this is the biggest like Revenue right now being built in China so do people from other countries go to China for organ Replacements yeah

I love the Middle East and those countries go to China to get so they just turn a blind eye to it yeah they don't think about the origin of the actual organ themselves yeah they just go get it oh I need a lung replacement and China says well if you go here we can get it for you and they go and then they kill someone and take their their lungs yeah it became a biggest now like a new industry that is rising in China is transfer those people are generally North Koreans those are a lot

of them were fallong gong practitioners in China okay weers yeah now the Wagers but fallong gong is different like peaceful religion they were on following on wiers and not as much Tibetans but more like s with following North Koreans and so they have them in some prisons somewhere yeah and they feed them and just wait for someone to come along that needs their organs and they kill them yeah wow yeah and this is proven it's I mean well how it's a lot of other things are proven because when these people die how do we ask

them how did you die they are dead so that is uh a lot of fallong gong survivors do testimony they have told about this it's very well known like Jamie can look it up it's a very un even condemned China for that even they they they couldn't like turn the eyes blind on it was to two evidence and another thing North K go is a prostitution Brothers right and these girls resist so what they do they give them drugs so they make them become drug addict so now they all they want is drugs so that's

how they go to brothers and then this man I said in these Villages cannot afford the women these little towns so they buy one girl and they rotate the entire man in that in that town and and then like me uh some of them just being sold like my mom was s for uh just like mentally [ __ ] family the farmers family and we go became a free labor for them and being a sex slave for them and and then being a sex slave for a mentally [ __ ] family yeah I mean because

if they're normal and they wouldn't they can't find wives they're all like mentally [ __ ] and not functioning people those people cannot find wives so that's why we ending up in the most horrible places we don't just go and like fall in love and meeting some normal person so so when you were 13 you escaped when tell us what it was like first of all where did you escape to you escaped to China yeah and how did you get across uh it was a frozen River in March 20 uh end end of March uh

in 2007 so you travel on the Frozen River yeah and we luckily didn't get shot by the guards and when we got into the other side of the River Bank of China That's when Mom got raped and and they took us in a house and they were like turning me around like slave market right they check my teeth and my body structure and somehow being virgin is very precious in China so they sold my mom for around $65 in this 21st century and they sold me less than $300 and they sold it separately but the

thing is they didn't even try to force us they were asking if you don't want to be so you can go back to North Korea right and even North Kore reg doesn't punish me I couldn't find food to eat I was going to die anyway even if regime doesn't kill me the starvation was going to kill me and for the first time I remember that night in that the trafficker house I saw a trash can and I did not know what it was so I asked this lady like what is that and then like one

thing it's oh that's a trash like what is trash all the things that you don't need to throw there like you throw bin away and it's like what do you mean you have things to throw away cuz we never needed a trash bin in North Korea we had nothing to throw even this hairs it comes down we don't have like heating like that we have to start the fire and starting fire takes the paper it's very precious so we burn like hair there to try to start the fire like literally nothing was thrown away in

that even human poop right yeah I mean that's a thing that regim cannot have a fertilizer they don't even have the technology have the fertilizer so they demand us to bring the poop and as a kids you go to school the teachers beat you and then go home and look for poop so I would go on the streets and looking if anywhere like a dog pooped or somewhere of course like all those dogs are poops gone so finding a poop and when you don't e eat much you don't poop like in North Korea like few

times a month it's very precious thing yeah of course few times a month yeah and it becomes very precious and you have to give it over to the regime yeah so that's nothing is being wasted in so do they have toilets or do you go to the bathroom in ouses oh we have all ouses the digging a hor but we have the lock because they some people come and Ste they come to steal the poop yeah it's a government quota you get punished if you don't bring poop everything is punished punishment in that country so

how much what is the quota like how much poop do you have to give them so sometimes per family they say one ton how do you find that a ton yeah so 2,000 I do the kilogram so like th000 kilograms right like one ton so yeah it's about right yeah yeah 2,000 so per family or they give you the K so so that's per year yeah and then we have to bring them in usually January so because the farming starts around March so they have to you know in like uh January they collect them and

pile them up and then they started buing it and then when the doll happens and they start the farming process in the spring and even then you don't get any of that food that they no it's a collective farm so they take the 98% of the food to the regim and then that 2% is spread among the elites who's running the farm so you work entire here in the collective Farm you get nothing from it there's also cannibalism yeah it is how does that happen it's it's is is really like people said don't dehumanize people

of North Korea and like because they say oh just they tell us the nice things right like we that's just too much for us to handle and like what I I just this is the thing like in there's like people go to Black Market you sell meat people don't ask what meat it is you don't ask it's like poor C it's just rabbit we don't and we just sometimes we go find a very very cheap meat and we don't ask and luckily I was to AF poor to afford the meat I didn't get to eat

them a lot of children just disappear but the thing is there's no evidence you everybody dies and some Corner get drawn so and the we don't have we go to River to bathe we only bathe a few times a year winter time we don't even bathe and during the winter we have to go to wash our clothes so we make a small hole in the river and sometimes you fall and sleep through and you die like that so it's is so easy to murder is not a thing so it's so many cause killing you so

some people you you lose your children you just don't even know what killed it and nobody bothered to go out and like find it for you so so many people die so that's why easy to sell the human like uh meat so either they're killing the children or they'll find them dead and then just cook their meat and sell it yeah this is common yeah so when you escaped to China what is the process like when you're in China before how how do you how did you event you eventually got to South Korea yeah what

how long were you in China for almost 2 years and what was that like what was the process like well living in two years of China like feel like I live thousand years on this Earth I feel like very old um yeah I remember after there for six months one day I was walking alone and then it's like I literally feel like I live thousand years right like making it one day was such a struggle whenever you let one day leave you think like oh my God I made one more day on Earth in China

yeah so it was that hard in China what was so hard about it cuz one you don't know when you're going to be arrested so you always put your shoes on tight shoe races and whenever you get into some indoor you look for a place to run right if you are some inbody to somebody's house you see the all the check the doors where can I run which rod do I run when you even sleep you you know how to run right you get ready to run from the police and that is a constant threat

and and of course you raped every single day by these human traffickers and they even come follow you to bathroom there's no human dignity in it they beat you and they I mean you're not your own person and they the common things that they to set us tell us that you our lives are even not valuable like pigs because even they kill us they know that we cannot go to police how did you escape from all that this is uh so the man who bought me uh he was very impressed because by then I went

through two human traffickers prior me so by the third human trafficker nobody's virgin they all got raped so he was hand chines and couldn't believe that I made it to him as a virgin because the first trafficker my mom covered second trafficker i f like hir I would literally lose my mind and thankfully he had his like mistress in the next room so I didn't get raped even he tried so hard I didn't so by the third time HT Chinese I was try to kill myself and then he said oh if you become my mistress

I'm going to help you to get your get your family to you but before that he showed me the phone he had because I never seen a phone in my life as North Korean and he showed me oh this phone can take pictures and look at these pictures I took and in know one picture was I saw my mom in it and I started telling that's like my mom my mom and that's how he knew that I had that the woman that he saw was my mom and obiously he raped her too so he said

if I become his mistress he's going to uh get me help me my with my family so he took my virginity he raped me and thankfully he didur help me he brought he brought my mom back from a farmer that he sold and he brought my sick father from North Korea that's how I brought my parents back to me how did you escape from him two after almost two years he became a gambling addict he was a big Gambler he's spending all his money and somehow this evil man was letting me go cuz he couldn't

even afford to give me food at that point he was so broke so he said like I'm letting you go and in some ways in his most evil way he loved me so after two years I was Leto and then I went to this chat room so this is another thing a lot of North Korean girls uh capturing this chat rooms where we do body cams clients are South Koreans so we chat and then we show our body but North K women we choose that R because it's better than being touched by men in person

right they not raped in person so this is all on the internet with web cameras yeah that's Al number one thing that North K been do in China all this night life so in that room I heard about something called South Korea for the person because the clients are South Koreans you didn't know what South Korea was I knew the different name like different name but I knew that country was a colonized by Americans I heard that in South Korea the South Korea was very corrupt capital and raped by American soldiers every day and they

are like cannot go to kids cannot go to school and they all want to come to North Korea that's what you learned from North Korea oh yeah that's what I thought wow they all want to go to North Korea yeah they all want to come to North Korea the entire Humanity wants to be like North Korea so we are so fortunate they tell us that we have nothing to Envy in this world wow yeah so you find out about South Korea from these chat rooms and you start to get a different idea of what South

Korea must be like yeah and we met this defecto lady in that chat room she told me she knows some missionaries and if we become Christians they're going to help us to go to South Korea and be free and that's when I heard like free for the first time I asked like what do you mean free and she said oh you can watch TV and you can wear jeans and nobody gonna arrest you for that in South Korea so that's what I thought of Freedom watching TV and wearing jeans that's that's what you thought of

Freedom it was never like freedom of speech or none of that was like that's cool I can wear jeans CU I was a teenage girl I wanted jeans and nor you get sent to prison camp for that you get sent to prison camp for wearing jeans yeah it's just a joke for westers that North Korean even haircut is like ordered by the regime like the only thing that North Koreans allow to do that in that country fully freely is breathing everything else is controlled what we we what we watch what we listen to How We

Dance what hair could that we get every single thing is controlled by the regim so you working in these chat rooms and you meet this woman and she says you just have to become a Christian no we have to go the shter that Christians had so we have to go and their study by and we have to prove our faith to them then they're going to rescue us that was a condition to be rescued by Christians so it's a Christian Missionary from South Korea yeah and how so did you have to go to South Korea

in order to prove yourself to them or did they they do this all through online no we couldn't go South Korea obviously so we they had a shelter in China in some house hidden so we went to their shelter and then We join them as a group and study the Bible every day so we would go fasting I mean we've been sted all our lives but they say you know God provides so you go fast you study Bible you memorize verses they come test to you and we pray together and then once they think we

are actually Christians then they tell you how to go to South Korea how long did that take several month and but when you're so desperate right like I'm going to believe in rocks if someone somebody asked me to believe in like you believe in anything literally right so and it was so easy like North Korea regime was Bible like I was like what the heck this thing called Jesus and God and like North Koreans like don't worry baby just plug God to give your song and Jesus to give here and per perfectly made sense like

God loves us so much gave us his son he he's there to protect us we got to suffer and go to paradise rede it later in life so I did become a Christian so made the same sense to you because it was so similar to the story that they taught you in North Korea ex the logic was so similar so you became a Christian yeah did and several months of this studying the Bible and then they eventually got you to South Korea they told us how to go how'd you do that which was uh literally

walking across the gby desert into Mongolia from China you walked yeah wow so they gave us one Compass we had even total in our group we had one father and his father and the Seven ladies and few teenagers they told us um you went by Compass yeah did they give you a map I mean you cannot look at the map in the desert you don't have GPS how do you know nothing tells you if you're going Circle or straight or backwards that was the horrifying thing about desert he said it looks all the same right

right right nothing tells you what you're doing you can just keep going Circle all night and then so they told us go follow the west and the north between in that direction and if you cross the eight wire fences hopefully that's going to be Mongolia hopefully and then you find the Mongolian soldiers and tell them that you want to go to South Korea not North Korea so that mean so dangerous the chances of you making in that desert is not even like 2 3% right like 98 % of time you're going to fail so they

cannot lead us there it's random luck that's why they believe that God is going to show us Miracle how long did it take you to walk from the GOI desert it was just only one day one day but we chose that in February 2009 after Bing Olympic and in the Frozen goby desert it's like minus 40° so those soldiers is thinking nobody's crazy enough to cross right now in this freezing time so that's how you can do it that's security is lower other times they're going to shoot you because in that desert nobody knows if

you got killed or not so who's who would be shooting you Chinese or the Mongolians both of them can just shoot you they they would just shoot anybody walking through the desert it's called a shoot to order it's like a shoot to kill order so they don't like bother ask who you are just going to shoot them right there and kill them so we don't even have ID none of that so we chose a time it was frozen and cold and even guards would don't want to come out and look around so we from walking

from Chinese side but they took us the border of China in Mongolia that which was still China from that border we started walking towards Mongolia and entire day of walking we got there so mously we didn't die from the cold and did you bring food did you bring water what did you bring with you when you were walking like in minus 40 degrees you cannot even stand still for 3 seconds like if you stand still for 10 seconds you're going to die right there and to get a heart attack yeah frozen to death so you

don't even need to eat you just have to only thing I remember was moving moving moving keep going keep moving whatever I was doing I had to keep moving otherwise you get very like you don't get enough oxygen so very like hazy and not clear you get very sleepy that's the thing like dying from cold wasn't bad as like I thought it was you become very numb and you don't really like desensitize and you become very very sleepy and that's when you know we dying in that CT how many people were with you we had

one baby and seven people and the toughest thing is when we were going across China we had to give him sleeping pairs because he would cry and he doesn't speak Chinese but in the desert he had to be wake up because he's going to die frozen to death in desert so this baby keep falling asleep so we had to keep shaking our passing around between us and he made it eventually so he has to stay awake because if he if he falls asleep the cold will kill him oh yeah of course so but he's not

walking right you're carrying him he's a total he cannot walk he's few years old but he still needs to be awake so we had to keep like shaking him and like massage his feet and hands and Shake him up and down so he could be like conscious and up cuz he was keep falling asleep what kind of clothes are you guys wearing well we didn't have gloves we didn't have any you didn't have gloves 40° below zero yeah so she my mom didn't even have like shoes at that point so she eventually borrowed the shoes

from the guy and robbed it was so big and I was like just wear thin coat and somehow that's why I guess we needed a miracle that's why we had to pray I don't know it's a very low chance making it so nobody not escaping through Mongolia anymore so you walk through M Mongolia it takes you 24 hours M just roughly one day I think we took yeah and then what happens when you get to the other side we didn't get to other side one just suddenly in the like in the morning the guards with

the guns coming at you and asking you to put your hands up so we all like lifting our hands up right and then they were like saying they're going to send us to China and then back to North Korea to get cared so North Canan gave bring the laser and poisons with us to right to kill ourselves because I mean going to North K get killed is way worse than killing ourselves right there so we so you brought poison with you to kill yourself laser yeah and a laser what kind of very very thin laser

that's like China only North Korea said it like very very thin laser a rer like blade yeah blade Metal yeah metal thing very thin one yeah ra ra it's razor oh razor yeah we hide in the beds like everywhere so to cut your veins yeah like right here right here it's very easy to cut so we were uh this is like what St asking is that these Mongolian soldiers didn't have the sense to China but they want to see how we react so that's what they were playing with us right for us it's like life

and death for them is a good joke and thankfully they would not let us kill ourselves like very last minute they stopped us and turn the car back around to Mongolian side but the next team that crossed the border got all rest and S back North Korea but the following team they were doing that and Mongolian soldiers went too far so one of my friends she swallowed the entire sleeping Pierce to kill herself and then they took her to ER and they revived her but forever her brain got damaged so this was a joke to

them so they thought it was funny to scare the refugees yeah just funny to see how we fight for our lives it's yeah yeah but thankfully nobody's choosing their R anymore so when they capture you and they threatened to send you to China and then back to North Korea how did how did you get out of it how did I remember was telling my mom like we did everything to survive and it was like because in China in the prisons they even get rid of the buttons everything is all like you cannot swallow to car

yourself right they don't even give you a spoon so that's how prevent a suicide because all n kill themselves before they go cuz they know the Fate so I know like if I miss the opportunity to kill myself in the car on the way to China we are never going to get the chance by so we were ready to cut and then swallow the thing and they that's when they stopped and sometimes they just go too far with it so it's always a joke to them yeah that's we did not know but later when we

were leaving Mongolia that's when they told us actually we didn't mean to send you guys to China like we just do that every time when you arrive here and some people wind up killing themselves anyway yeah So eventually they let you go yeah they did reach out the South Korean Embassy and then South Korean Embassy comes right and they intergate you to make sure that you're actually North Korean so several month in Mongolia we do different detention centers they move was around and interrogate us and when when they confirmed that we are North Koreans they

that's when they gave us a fake passport and from ulator to South Korea we flew there and so when they determined that you're North Korean what what are they trying to find out they're trying to find out if you're actually a refugee if you're a spy like what what are they trying to find out so they're there in China there's a Korean ethnic Chinese who were Koreans back then but they became Chinese the ethnic CH Koreans so you know China has 56 different ethnicity it's a very diverse country right so one of them are Korean

ethnic Chinese so those people tried to go to South Korea so they rule out those people and also spy so they rule out every everybody's defectors when you escape you become Defector right away so they rule out the spies and also rule out if you're actually North Korean or ethnic Chinese ethnic Korean Chinese that's what they tried to investigate you and so you finally eventually get to South Korea and then what happens and then what happens I I hear about this thing called the freedom and then here about this country is obsessed with the competition

and hard work and studying the the vigorous Academia that these kids study English when they're in in their mother's tummy right and they study like crazy people yeah and then I'm like almost like you know high schooler and they did placement test on me and I'm like I need to go study with the seven years old I don't even know what continents are right I don't even know what Africa is right I don't even know what different race is I don't even know the map so I'm like blank past like adult baby M adult baby

yeah and how old are you I was Korean age was 17 you were 17 but you really about 10 years behind yeah at least at least at least that's what it is and so what kind of education did they give you in South Korea they they Tau us that South Korea was free country that Americans are not bastards cuz they told uh Americans were called the blooded snakes in North Korea so I remember one of my friend I took to South Korea she was white lady my mom got drunk with so and touching her right

and then like I just want to make sure that you are like actually warm blooded cuz that's what they and in school we have a posters of Americans posters because we don't have actual pictures of them our enemies Americans right they are like our sore enemy so we got to know who they how they look like so they are cold blooded huge nose and blue eyes green eyes monsters like wow yeah so what so where did they educate you in South Korea there's a reeducation center Alo they have a place where they take in people

from North Korea yeah for three month so they so they take you to ATM machine so like we never had a bank in North Korea right like in the past I heard there was a bank but regime asked to put the money and they don't give the money back to you so nobody uses bank in North Korea so I literally thought ATM machine there's somebody inside the machine handing the money out to you through the window cuz I don't know automation right and they teach you how to take a bus how take how to even

like go to movie theater order a TK because we never seen the digital devices you know how to take the elevator what is the escalator you know I mean it's like you just Landing in a complete different planet what is that like overwhelming it's very having that choice like when you go shopping and you have 10 different pants right and it's up to you to choose what you wear and in North Kore it was like chosen by the regime Freedom was difficult I was literally saying if I had enough frozen potato had at least minimum

food to eat I would go back to North Korea really yeah why cuz I was not used to thinking thinking was hard right thinking was not something I'm used to like I never had to think but not only that you have to think for yourself what do you know do you do your life and I was like do I have to know can you just not tell me what I need to do cuz I'm so good at following the orders but they go like in South K they were asking me so what do you want

to do and what do you think and what I thought never mattered I couldn't believe like why what I think matters to you so really thinking for yourself was very difficult I would have be so tired after thinking for five minutes I was get exhausted all day I literally get like okay working out with thinking is so hard like I would get so exhausted how do people like keep thinking here all day long they say the same thing happens to people when they get out of prison that when they get out of prison they they

call it being institutionalized that when they get out of prison they want to go back to prison and often times they'll commit crimes just so they can get arrested and go back to prison because in prison they're told what to do yeah and they become accustomed to it yeah that's what it felt like for you yeah it's but like for me like when I was born that was my lifestyle and like I wasn't able I mean thinking was not a natural thing so a lot of North Koreans do have hard time to adjust to Freedom

when you first went to South Korea and you were able to eat whatever you wanted what did you eat eggs eggs boiled eggs that's what you wanted yeah because uh even beef was twoo fans I did not know know that like what cow was right you didn't know what a cow was I I never knew the milk came out of cow cuz I never had milk in my life so uh all North Koreans we know is like chicken and the eggs so in North Korea like egg is like the most fancy thing you can imagine

so I literally thought I could eat you know bucket of eggs so egg is the most fancy thing that you can imagine yeah so at North K we we Bor eggs and we like let me see how actually how many I can eat right but after five you cannot eat more than five Forex so that's when I realiz I mean not that much it take for me to full I how I wasn't able to do that in that country so that was do you remember the first time you ate until you were full yeah in

China but the thing is you think you like going to eat everything is that in China like our stomach is not used to seasoning like oil or fat so I was getting nauseous a lot I couldn't like eat the normal food that America like that Chinese even South K eat cuz I mean our system was eating without seasoning just all the wild like you know plants and flowers and like not not not much going on so going to China eating for the first time that was seasoned food was very hard on my stomach and so

it was actually not that great like you would think like oh my God it's Paradise the your system doesn't take it take a while for you to adjust to the new kind of food how long did it take in South Korea before you felt comfortable eating like hamburger I think at least like 2 three years wow yeah it's uh two three years took me even not like getting used coca colola I literally thought some like fired hor happening I never had a bubble in my life so like learning about n champagne is like in the

beginning I couldn't like what is going on in my mouth they're popping every you had never had anything carbonated no so it was like shocking it hurts me in the beginning it took a while now I drink a bit of few sips of Coca-Cola but I couldn't do it for a long time I still don't drink Sparkling Water I don't know why anybody does that to torture themselves yeah it's very painful really in your throat yeah they're like like you know pounding you with something I don't know wow that's crazy what about alcohol people make

alcohol illegally from corn in North Korea yeah yeah but they are like very moonshine like very strong very strong nasty and like very thi and not diluted at all right right you get like the worst hangover from it yeah that kind of alcohol they drink I never knew what wine was so I went to Napa with my mom last year and they will keep telling us what do you s like how do I know oh oh this so crazy with all that wine tasting stuff I know like I just heard about wine right oh they're

saying hints of nutmeg and Oak exactly Oak yeah and they're smelling yeah it's the strangest thing in the world yeah for someone who's coming from North Korea to go to that might be the polar opposite of North Korea is a Napa wine testing I know I was like uh and a lot of people tried to get me burning men they wanted to take you the burning man I saw some pictures I was like I don't think I'm ready for this I might go crazy there that's hilarious that's hilar Burning Man to go that might be

the opposite well there's probably like multiple Polar Opposites of uh North Korea but berning man's probably one of them but the fancy people of Napa that's got to be up there so if somebody was treating me to this restant called singer threat singer like the French Laundry same restaurant in Napa oh okay and then they did a tour at their like a front yard m they grow on their tomatoes and peppers and like my mom was like we've been eating this every day in North Korea organic we did not know we were having like $500

me you know cuz here people keep telling us it's organic it's like everything was organic in our country right like what I want is a big portion right but here people really obsessed like a North Korean lifestyle so yeah my mom would never do this to me ever again she's like you're torturing never don't ever do this to me that's funny that's funny so your experience in South Korea they're they're educating you are you working do you start working you're 17 years old right so what did what did you do while you were there so

I start I learn I mean I remember at the this interrogation man was asking me so what you going to do in South Korea I like I don't know maybe study cuz I'm still young and he's like why do you think you can study cuz he thought was a whoan China CU all North Korean women are them and a lot of North Korean women ending up uh doing the same thing in South Korea because they don't even know how to turn on the computer they don't know even what a GMA is creating account online is

impossibility for them who never grew grew out of it so they cannot get like nice office jobs right so only job they can take is like washing dishes they cannot become even the Rous because we have an accent and South Kore is are very racist they discrim people who have an accent so they hear the North Korean accent yeah what is the difference like what does it sound like like in in South Korea say is a high but North Korea Mika very formal more like the we we call our friends no there's no friends in

North Korea comrade like comrad only comrads exist so they know by the way you talk yeah so even but it is it an accent is are you saying the same words you're saying them in a different way or you using different words both of them different both it's bigger difference than British and American English is that in North Korea as I said there's no bank right so for me to understand credit card what the heck you build your credit they give you money you pay back and debit card right like saving I mean like for

me to understand hedge fund it took 10 years I still don't get it a lot of parts but that's the thing like we don't have the vocabulary right so learning from South Korean to English a lot easier cuz I know what credit cards in South Korea means and America means oh but like gay what is gay you didn't know what gay was of course there's no dictionary so I remember in San Francisco a few years ago when I came to America after my speech somebody came and huged me and I get really stiffened cuz some

guy hugging me and then he said like don't worry baby I'm gay like what the heck is gay you didn't know what gay was how old were you when this was happening I was like 20 20 wow so there was no gay people in North Korea we don't know the word so now tell me about the sexual nonbinary what like whatever how many pronouns that I found later I like this is a different planet so wow yeah we don't know the concept and we don't know the concept Romans or love how do you expect us

to know what gay is how do people find their husbands and wives and relationship sh in North Korea usually government assigns or a marriage or the through the family uh like families the parents to the assigned marriages so the South Koreans are racist against the North Koreans even though you look very similar can can you tell a difference by looking at someone height difference height difference so we are because of malnutrition yeah on average three to five inch shorter on average but the younger generation in North Korea gets a shorter that's the thing our grandpa

was the tallest and my father and me keep getting sou K opposite keep going up and keep getting smaller and smaller so in South Korea because of nutrition and so when you are learning where do they have you stay I had to find this like thing called go like one fit room where like very cheap in Soul so I was working at this like d ISO is like $1 store in Korea so I I was teenager like I was American age was 15 years old South Korea is a different way of counting age so you're

going to be confused so in North South Korea North Korea when you're born the day you born you're one you're one when you're born Y and then January 1st you are two so if somebody was born December 31st they're one tomorrow January 1 they become two even when they're a baby yeah they're two days old and they're two years old really yeah so they count age like that so when you're born you're one and then you gain age not on your birthday January 1st you gain one year this is only North Korea and South Korea

both South Korea too really yeah so if you're born in December yeah you're 1 years old and then in January you're two even though you're only a month old yeah exactly wow so I was born in October so I was born I was one and then December 2 months later I became 2 years old so you were 2 years old when you were 2 months old yeah so even though you were 17 you were really 15 yeah so America that's why there was some confusion when I was giving interviews in the beginning when I escaped

from North Korea North Korean age I was 15 so in South Korean press I had to tell them Korean age right right then then it translate to English article so why it was it 15 and 13 because of the age counting is different oh so I arrived there as American Agia was 15 but South Kia was 17 years old wow so you're really 15 years old American age and you are working in a dollar store yeah the stay in very and so you're supporting yourself yeah and learning yeah and I taught myself I took GED

so I crashed from one year I mean elementary middle school high school everything within a year so that's how I went to University when I was 17 years old American age and you which is amazing because a lot of people here don't even go to university when they're 17 and they're studying their whole life under normal circumstances and you but you were obsessed right yeah I was obsessed you were obsessed like you you gotten to the point where you you were malnourished because you weren't eating cuz all you were doing was studying yeah I know

it's like I I end up in ER somebody called and there's like you're malnourished so I'm I'm still like 79 like 80 lbs but way smaller than this so right now you're 80 lbs but back then you were like I don't even didn't have the scare was to PO not for the scare so and so but you weren't even thinking about food you were just trying to learn and there was a food that was expensive so it was you know in South Korea as a student working in the dollar store and studying everything was expensive

so it was uh you know I I couldn't really afford three mirrors a day obviously right yeah mhm and so what were you studying and how were you doing it I was doing the all the school requirement project for GED right biology physics math English History all this writing everything but on top of that I was reading books I read like last I read like a few hundred books but in South Korea I was reading at least 100 books outside of the school curriculum books that you requireed to read so because I was I mean

I did not know what Shakespeare is how embarrassing is that people talk about Roman and juliia I'm like who the heck is around me and chill yeah I remember I got to South Korea this guy somebody called Michael Jackson died right it's on TV and there's some funeral like who the heck is Michael Jackson and then sometime later this guy called like apple Steve Jobs Di and like is that a big deal that Steve Jobs di that who Steve Jobs Steve Jobs so I don't know what St jobs is right so like I that's that's

amusing why these people are so upset and like obviously there like some days later Nur Mandela dies like who is Nur Mandela right I God got to be so strange to be 15 years old and learning about the whole world not knowing anything that's happening in other countries other continents not knowing anything about pop stars and world leaders no I think that's so that's a thing like when I came to America like I did not even know what Arab is Or Hispanic is right I have no preconception of a Race So that was great like

I don't know the difference for me it's like you guys all strangers so I remember like was I had a talk in Charleston South Carolina or North Carolina I don't know Charleston like in a room for the first time I like there and then like thousand people all like white people and like they looked all the same I just couldn't believe they all look the same to me that's hilarious that's funny so one of the things that struck me is that you were so obsessed with learning that even when you went to sleep you would

you would play like Ted speeches NPR news and like and I listened to a lot of your podcast did you sorry said no it was wonderful just said I mean even to this day English I learned it I was 21 like 5 years ago so it's a still like struggle for me so you were listening to podcast you were listening to NPR you were listening to TED talks and what what what was it like for you to try to absorb all of this information at such a frantic Pace it's it was I mean it's amazing

the first of all that you read whatever you want like the one point that changed me as a child was Georgia W Animal Farm yeah that was random like I literally R up and then pick up the book the thinnest book and I thought okay takes the least time for me to finish it and reading that book made everything sense to me because after n Korea of course I mean learning what Subways is challenging right learning what hamburger is is like a learning experience but learning how to trust again I think that was the hardest

thing like obviously I don't trust guys I I didn't right right and not only that like they say everything that you believed in North Korea was a lie they they are dictators they are not gods they didn't love you they are dictators you've been lied to entire life and I was thinking so how do I know what you're telling me is not lie then right that was so scary I how do I trust ever again so only reading Georgia 1984 and the animal farm that's when I understood what happened to my people people then you

understood double speak and propaganda and then price of you know silence the price of Silence yeah that's when I knew I until that point I was blaming the dictator why did you do that to us but I was started thinking what all those people like my grandma she knew life before Kims she knew the alternative life like in that animals you seen the the revolution generation then next and the new ones don't even know what the world could be like yeah so that's the thing like when people say why there's no revolution in North Korea

I'm like I mean how do you fight to be when you don't know you're slave right it's impossible and this the thing like in America Everybody Talks talking about how they oppressed the systemically I'm like you know people in North SC don't even know they're oppressed if you know you're oppressed you are not oppressed like not knowing is a true definition of Oppression well unfortunately in this country they've um they've made oppression a valuable thing like if you can say that you're oppressed and you you people look for oppression that sometimes doesn't exist for sure

there is oppression in this country and for sure there is racism in this country but it's become a commodity and it's become a commodity that you can claim and you can use it to bolster and fortify your personality and your personal status it's a real problem and know like I went to right after all of that I ended up at Columbia University in New York and as you can see I'm I love learning I'm very curious person and go there and like truth doesn't matter it all matters your feelings how you feel like well you

caught Columbia University at a terrible time right like what year was this 2016 I joined after Trump became president the worst time you could ever join right cuz this is like political correctness at the peak of its frenzy and also they feel Justified because they feel they have this despot in the White House this terrible person who's going to destroy people of color and gay people and he's a a this and a that and a homophobe and a racist and a sexist anything and so everything that you can possibly do to stop a person like

that must be justified including distorting truth yeah it was it was unbelievable I I couldn't believe it I came out after 4 years later scared more than ever what I say like I was seeing myself censoring every day again and it was like I never thought right America I had to go censor myself what was it like the contrast between learning in South Korea and then learning at Colombia so South Korea is like I was too little I knew about the word so everything they told me was truth like everybody who I met was a

teacher do you know what I mean in South Korea my knowledge was so little I was like one year old right everybody told me do you know Africa I mean that's new what's Africa do you know I been to Australia what is Australia right that's new like so everybody was my teacher in South Korea right so I never like questioned anybody just everybody was my teacher everything was new yeah everything was new and everybody taught me something new for sure and coming to America it was a bit different because by then I read like a

lot of books and I was a bit Advanced and when I was in South Korea so now going to Colombia I mean as soon as I tell them my view they say oh you're brainwashed you're brainwashed they said you were brainwashed because of what what was your perspective so like the my professor was arguing that the like she was asking so how to the sensitivity training right you got to be sensitive to all findings he an oppression and like what do you think about men holding a door for you and I was thinking okay that's

a sign of disty like I hold the door for other people right and she no that's a sign of toxic munity that's like how TR show you the overpowering you holding a door open is overpowering yeah as a man when man does that what kind of class was this what was the uh subject it a I took a junior or something it's like it was Humanity class of course and then and she was like I told her no I think the sign of distance that's over like you're brainwashed you're brainwashed yeah how rude is that

well I mean for them it's uh I mean that's a thing like for me a safe placement where you can express your views right and especially in the universe you can be dumb right to search for truth but here in the name of safe space no other than the mainstream view you cannot have them but it's just so sad to me that there's such a lack of nuance because for sure some men will hold open a door for you because they want to pretend that they're stronger than you or they want to show you that

they're better than you or they want to pretend they're being nice because they're trying to manipulate you yeah because there are people like that but also some people hold open the door to be polite because they're nice and to deny that is to deny reality and to deny nuance and that's what's really scary is the sacrifice of nuance to promote a narrative that fits your needs exactly I think if things are so complex why humans do what is very complex yes and they lose entire complexity right and also seeing that how this thing called like

white guilt yes or privilege was so new to me it's like how are you guilty for what your ancestors did right that's exactly what North Koreans did to us exactly and I was like why you didn't choose to be born as a white I don't choose my birthplace it's the it's again the same thing it's the commodity of accusations of finding people that are guilty for no reason of their own yeah and maybe guilty and they don't even know it or maybe they have some hidden bias that they're not even aware of and they're going

to search it out and so you have these paranoid people who are like oh my God am I like secretly a bigot am I secretly a racist and they'll reaffirm it with you and then in order for you to get points you have to say I will do better I'm going to and then I'm going to be not just not racist I'm going to be anti-racist and then they'll say well now you're a good Ally and this this really strange way of communicating and when we were complaining about it years ago people would say why

are you complaining about this it's just a few random Fringe people in universities and the people that I knew that were professors that were secretly terrified of this that would talk about it this is like before Jordan Peterson started talking about this openly uh when they would talk about this they would get chastised by the people in the University let's because these people had a vested interest in continuing this sort of this type of thinking and behaving and they this was like they were they had gold in this like there was there was profit in

this there was this there was some some social brownie points in this and they were going to continue to mine this vein of gold and when everybody was stepping in and talking about the dangers of this people were saying no no no this is the future this is Progressive this is this is all about love and trust and anti-racism and all these and then the people that were scared of it they they were sort of silenced in the universities until it started trickling over into corporations and then when it started trickling into corporations people started

getting genuinely scared and now we're at a point where I think the the dam is broken and I don't know how they're ever going to put the genie back in the bottle so to speak I think that's the thing initially I was thinking maybe only the Academia is just crazy right I thought it's but then last year I spoke at Ted and then like these people who run social media companies like V for Facebook Twitter all these people come and I told them I had an engagement in Texas and they were saying why do you

go to Texas it's like well they because America it's America and that's a trump country I decide not to set a foot below certain line of states that supports Trump and these are the people who runs because media companies in the world it's ridiculous well especially ridiculous in a place like Austin which is a progressive City yeah so they and then last year during the looting in Chicago I was robbed by these three black women and robbing is okay anybody can become a murderer anybody can be a thief but just they happen to be a

black women and I have a nanny who is Muslim Indonesia with the hijab carrying the my stroller behind me and then this I was trying to catch and call the police and these people on the street the bystanders of white people calling me I'm a racist telling me that the color of skin doesn't make them a thief and I became wait a minute wait a minute so you got robbed by these three black women and I got punched you got punched and robbed violence yeah and so you called the police and who I tried to

call them and they to prevent me not calling the police who was trying to tell you not to call the police it's all the people on the street on the Mig Avenue yeah people that saw the crime yeah cuz they said you're racist for calling the police yeah and accusing these girls of being a robber robbers right how does that make you a racist by accusing them of being because I'm not black and they are black so calling black person a thief is a racist even though when they're Thief so of course I couldn't I

got punched I couldn't call the police and later I called thankfully this girls took my car to spend the money on the sax and then police got the footage of them sax fith Avenue yeah in Michigan Avenue M in Chicago and then of course they they are not going to prosecute this Cur right there's so much crime in Chicago they are not going to prosecute somebody who drops and that's when I was thinking this country lost it like even in North Korea if you see somebody one small girl being robbed and being punched by three

big big girls they're going to help the victim right they are not going to just out of nowhere scream at you're a racist so they they were screaming you were racist because of the phone call that you were making because I I was I heard their arm like I told them I'm not accusing you anything I'm just going to call the police can you wait here until the police comes and you're holding whose arm the girl who robbed my wallet oh so the girl who robbed your wallet you were trying to hold on to her

yeah because she was trying to run okay so I was trying to call the police and then she was like you're a racist the skin of color person doesn't make me a racist I doesn't make me a thief and then she was punching me here and this is after she already robbed you yeah yeah and then the people gathers and I remember there's a one there's a a bus station there's what one white mom with the teenagers and I became the lifetime example for her to show her children that how racism exists in America America

like me became a bigot and calling this black girls a thief so she look at that kind of races that's a problem that we how many people were around you like I don't know some 20 people and they were like 20 people they're circling me around so I cannot call the police circling you and calling you a racist even though this girl just stole from you this girls still ran away because and they let the girls run away yeah keep just go go run right they told the girls to run yeah wow so that's when

I that's when I started speaking out and now I became the enemy of the work so I got the I got the North Koreans going on I'm I became the Kim's killing list few years ago and South Korean intelligence like you are on the kid killing list right oh boy and I'm like cool I expected that and now I'm Chinese like enemy Chinese regimes and now in America I got so many enemies oh boy Jesus yeah yeah that's what you realize that this stuff spills over into real life right that's when I knew that my

son is American I have a son in America and when on his birth certificate in Chicago like father is birth place America USA and Mom is North Korea right like on birth certific his mom is North Korean and to me was giving him that American citizenship was the bigger than winning the lottery I thought I did everything I could to give him a better life making him American and seeing that last year in America it's like this is not a safe country cuz he he got the worst he got half asian He Who Wants to

be work hard and we believe in meritocracy and he got half white who's like supposedly oppressor because of their so he's so screwed he's a cast is so low right now yeah that's funny that's funny it's sad and it's it's trly sad unfortunately it's in some circles it's true I think there's a lot of people that are waking up to this problem I hope so there are yeah and a lot of is because of people like you speaking up from a place of true oppression like North Korea in comparison to what's going on here or

these privileged weirdos are attempting to distort reality for their own personal gain because that's what it is but I think what do they gain from me I don't get it they gain social status they they gain status in the like if if there's a narrative that's being pushed and they go along with it people say oh you're on the right side you're doing the right thing you're saying the right words if you go against it they'll chase you down and yell at you you will you will be on the outside you'll be an outcast people

are cowards they're terrified even if they know something is true they're terrified of saying it because they don't want the blowback for it right so that's what a lot you you see a lot of that going on this country MH and you see a lot of people unfortunately over this last year and a half because of the pandemic you see a lot of people that are more than willing to sacrifice personal freedoms yeah in order for a little bit of safety and a little bit security and they'll give up those freedoms to the government yeah

which will never give them back to you yeah when the pandemic is gone and you've given them vaccine passports and allowed them to track your abouts and allowed them to uh contact Trace you that's not going to go away they're going to use it for other reasons they're going to find other reasons to control you and keep you scared and keep you compliant so they can suck resources out of gigantic corporations that are funding their campaigns yeah that's what they're doing and they're going to continue to do that if we let them and we're going

to slide further and further away from freedom and democracy freedom and and the the ability to express yourself openly and all of these things people are willing to give up if it supports their side yeah and that's what's so terrifying they don't understand if you give the government vaccine passports and if you let them censor social media posts that you don't agree with the problem is then what happens if someone who's far worse than Trump gets into office yeah because that's probably going to happen unfortunately we're going to have this teeter totter back we've divided

this country so thoroughly that there's going to be someone that's a far-left person that makes people so angry that they're then willing to vote for a far right person and when that farri person comes into office they will have access to all of those powers that you so willingly gave up because you wanted to stop this this idea that you didn't agree with and they've they've they' done this in this horribly shortsighted way yeah and they've done it in the name of the woke they've done it in the name of progressivism and wokeism and all

all this stupid [ __ ] that is uh it's this social contagion that's running through this country right now I know it's like to me I never been to American public school system like onto universities that like nothing has been more dangerous than government to individuals right right think of us I mean M 60 million Chinese people Stalin Hitler they drive us to go to the war and our biggest threat is governments I mean big governments yes and it's it's so unbelievable how people soers keep wanting for someone to take care of things for them

people are scared and they get they get delusional they have this bizarre idea that someone's going to come along that has power that that's a benevolent dictator it's going to take care of things in the right way and just give them the power yeah you know give them the power to shut these people up given the freedom of speech does it's not the end all be all maybe it's more important to just say what I want you to say yeah it's just strange the shortsightedness is so strange because you hear people on CNN supposed to

be the news and they're they're espousing these ideas and they're they don't recognize that if you give that power up to the people people that are in charge currently the next people going to have it too this was the thing about the Patriot Act that people were so terrified of in this country that were aware of the consequences they were saying well Obama's never going to do this Obama what Obama's not going to be in office forever he's going to be in office for eight years if you love Obama and you trust Obama that's great

look what came after Obama Trump and now you have a dead man now you have Joe Biden who doesn't know what the [ __ ] is going on what are you going to have after that well you're probably going to have someone on the right and it it's going to be someone that is a reaction to what you have on the left I mean this is what we do in this country we go left right left right and we pretend well this guy has our interest in mind oh he [ __ ] it up too

let's go with someone's polar opposite ah he [ __ ] it up and you give him eight years each side or four years each side and it just keeps getting worse and for whatever reason people are constantly willing to give up Powers they're constantly willing to ignore the the core principles that this country was founded on which is freedom and liberty and you need those things you need to be able to express ideas and debate them in in full view of the world so that we get to see whose ideas are correct and whose ideas

are incorrect but in this society and today you have people on the left which are supposed to be the progressive people the open-minded and intelligent people supposedly the the people that are educated supposedly and they're the ones who are willing to censor people it's bizarre it's very very strange very strange it's I was I'm not like Christian but I was like one that was like asking if there's God right like he says everything have what reason like why does North Korea exist right makes no sense why does it exist I think why does China exist

I think or why does the Communist party I should say exist why do they have the power to run the country that way that's because of that delusion ignorance in the people to not learn from history it's just I don't know do you think do we have hope in this country or like how do we get out of even this I'm worried yeah I'm worried because it just seems to be sliding further and further in this direction of totalitarianism and these people are willingly giving up this these rights because they believe that that's going to

support their side and they think they're on the right side of History they're on the right side of the truth they're on the right side of facts and and kindness and anti-racism and all the whatever whatever Concepts that they are willing to you know subscribe to that they think that giving up these rights will promote it's strange it's very strange because it's it's it's an anti- it's it's it's an anti- objective perspective they're not looking at all of the the and we're so polarized with the right and the left in this country we're so polarized

with Republicans versus Democrats in this country that there's no middle ground anymore there the center is this weird place where no one wants to exist cuz they don't want to be attacked by people on either side particularly by people on the left it was funny the other day when I was after Jordan piis interview about he out of nowhere like randomly asked how did you like Colombia and it's like it was terrible and then that wasn't we never discussed that we were going to talk about that and then Fox asked to asked me to have

an interview about it so I did but then all my friends in the like Liber why did you have to go on propaganda channel Fox to talk about the war war culture in America and I'm like I'm still reading a call from New York Times if they call me about workism in this country and danger of it I'm going to talk to them wait a minut the New York Times never called you AB I mean they only called me when I was criticizing Trump about meeting Kim Z without preconc questions whenever I he never wanted

to talk to you about your experience in North Korea no only when I was talking about Trump they wanted me who has t tried to talk to you about this some British uh newspapers still do like Daily Telegraph uh they still do want me to talk about China but whenever in American Media it's whenever I talk about against Trump that's when I meet their narrative really yeah that's the only time they want to talk to you yeah so that's the thing but the thing is you know Fox never accused me why did you get on

New York Times and criticizing Trump therefore we don't want you but the people in the liberal mainstream media why did you get on Fox so I'm like there are people too they're both newspapers so it unbelievable I just yeah there's a there's a big thing that's happening now where liberal people who are saying things that are outside of the narrative that you hear from CNN or MSNBC they're going on like the Tucker Carlson show yeah and people are furious at them yeah but they're saying all the same things that they would say on NBC or

CNN these they're not saying right-wing talking points they're saying things that they believe in whether it's Glenn Greenwald or Brett Weinstein or whoever these people are that go on these shows and talk these are progressive people yeah but they're being chastised and they're being attacked M it's very strange and it's it's really dark I know like I'm happy to talk to anybody like I want to go and CN and talk about this but they just don't give me a platform to talk about it they don't just call me well it's in support of this narra

narrative that's occurring now where it's okay to air quotes deplatform people yeah this is the idea you're deplatforming people off social media that say things that you don't agree with like Alex baronson who used to work for the New York Times he is critical of the way the government and the FDA and everyone is handling covid right or the CDC or the World Health Organization and so he's got a lot of stuff that he talks it's critical about the covid response in this country critical about the vaccine effect effectiveness arle about all sorts of different

things in the healthare system and they removed him from Twitter for a week yeah and he's not I mean he he they removed him from Twitter recently for discussing this the actual cdc's reports on the effectiveness and ineffectiveness or whatever on on covid vaccines wow it's very strange you know and you can't I mean maybe they think he speaks in a way that's inflammatory or in a way that's causing people to distrust certain uh institutions but then then oppose him oppose him debate him the the way to answer speech that you don't agree with is

to to counter it with what you think is a more sound argument it's not remove someone from social media but everyone's like yes he should be deplatformed you see people from the left just calling out willingly calling out for censorship it's it's a disturbing Trend and I don't think they understand that it's going to come for them because censorship is a monster that is Never full and it's going to come for you it's going to find it's going to it'll keep pushing the boundaries and go further and further left until you can't be woke enough

and then it's going to come for you exactly I think does thing in in North Korea right even though one top janitor in the meeting few years ago he was falling asleep and that afternoon he get executed and this guy was working for this system entire his life to supporting the system but he was tired yeah yeah and his uncle right did everything to S making Kim Jun to succeed the line and be secure he get executed was the uncle did they think that the uncle was planning to overthrow K Jung accusation it was just

an accusation wasn't true no it wasn't so it was every time when they do do it like that thing they get cared what was the thing that happened recently where Kim Jong-un was missing and they said that they thought he was sick was that a trap no it was a c CNN got some Source from CIA saying Kim jongan was having some surgery and he was gone away for like a long time disappeared and didn't show up in the very important meetings and Kim zong does have a health issues at this point what kind of

health issues he I mean he's over 330 pounds and he's like 5'7 and he gained weight very rapidly and he he eats all he drinks like 13 bottles of wine like a night wow and he has insane parties every single day so he's not healthy he does not know how to control himself so recently keep on last weight dramatically in one month but people say that's like oh is he becoming her no he just became very very ill so they are preparing who's going to succeed him afterwards now already how old is he he's 36

in Korean years or American years American years years I good yeah wow yeah but it doesn't seem like there's any hope for North Korea to get out of their current situation as long as China the CCP is there is not going to be out and whoever gets next is China maintain the exactly the same thing so without changing Chinese Communist party we never get to change North Korea but what's crazy is the Chinese Communist parties recognized that they had a flaw in their own system and they allowed free market to run through China and it's

only made China stronger but that's a thing also we thought economic freedom going to bring the political freedom but that's a unique thing about Freedom unless you fight for you don't get it right they don't have political Freedom like right now the censorship the this social credit system if you don't have the highest credit you cannot even buy a bus ticket to see your mom in the countryside right you can even get on the airplane and bus and public transportation well that's what comes next after vaccine passports yeah it's like what you say on social

media like they're going to read your text like what China does already and give you the social credit and I going people rate you and you are forever controlled I think to me is that this is the last time the humanity ever try to be free as individuals and I mean being individual is such a unique thing to me like that I can be different than you right it's the people talking about like oh the compar the the biggest difference that people have is between individuals like the difference you and I have is Unthinkable right

and difference that I have with my mom is Unthinkable that's a beauty of America that you can be different you can be an individual but now you cannot be an individual that's what North Korea did getting really so when North Kore criticizing me they said she was as a young girl very individualistic and ambitious that's hilarious that was the worst thing that came out because in North that's a wor criti to give somebody so they did not know that thing was embraced here so nor propaga Channel on YouTube you can see they say and this

is another amazing thing about YouTube is that I talk about women getting sold in China and those all videos get demonetized because I mean it's u z doesn't meet the YouTube guideline yeah and they letting North K regime to have their propaganda Channel on YouTube so they give platform to dictatorship but they do not want to give a platform to the people who is fighting the human rights justice fight and this is a thing like uh one video I made about the Second Amendment it's like my thoughts on second I thought like if every Hong

konger had a gun in their hands Chinese would not take them over like that 75% of population ran on the street demanding they want to be independent right one country to system they wanted that but China took it over because these people did not have any self defense right in in North Korea even if 20% of population had a guns we would assassinate them we would not let our children die like that right so to me it is you can have crimes with the guns accidents happens but it's very important when people have a ability

to defend thems from the governments when they become corrupt and of course sharing this is just one perspective you get like blocked right so this is a country that I am in now like I have to fight for freedom of speech in America and I thought my journey to be Freedom ended coming here but of course not no not even yeah the Second Amendment is a very contentious thing in this country and one of the interesting things about it is that people always want to site mass shootings yeah but what they don't want to talk

about with mass shootings is pharmaceutical companies they don't want to talk about the fact that most I mean most of the people that are committing mass shootings are on some kind of psychotropic drugs most of them yeah and they they want to conveniently ignore that yeah whether they're dissociatives or ssris or anti-anxiety medication or antis psychotic medication and it doesn't mean that that medication is causing them to do that but they don't even want to address it it never even gets discussed the only thing that gets discussed is the actual weapon itself yeah the ability

to do that is so beyond most people the ability to kill random strangers just in horrific acts of violence most people are not capable of doing that but most people want the ability to defend their family if someone's trying to break in their home and kill them or steal from them or or you know or kidnap a child or whatever it is when you see what's going on right now in um Australia Australia confiscated all their guns in the 1990s right and um not not saying that they should raise up against the government or but

there's some crazy [ __ ] going on right now where the Army is trying to keep people inside in Australia and one of the things that I read was that as they're doing this only nine people have died from Co over the last like see if that's true like how many people have died recently from covid in Australia because they have fullon government lockdowns where the government is flying helicopters over the streets so go back indoors you're not allowed to be outside which is crazy like it's like this disease doesn't even transmit well outside like

doesn't make any sense like being outside and getting Vitamin D from the Sun is probably one of the best things you can do exactly I mean like the babies that born last year in during the pandemic like my son is like three over three they didn't go outside the house for a year and a half right and I told their mom your baby might die from not getting a son in once even in their life then getting a CO and die right it's not a dangerous thing for children but the thing is like not going

outside for a year and a half is actually very dangerous wow Zer Z zero deaths oh my God a couple at the end July okay so in July there's a couple so you have zero deaths from literally from October 20th yeah October 20th you have zero deaths until July 11 yeah yeah July 11 you have one death and you got a little Spike there what's that Spike how many people is that one or two actually oh that's crazy two two two so I think it's nine deaths total since September and they have a a full-on

government lockdown where the military is locking down the streets testing has gone up but yeah of course but the deaths have gone down that's the thing it's like folks people die from heart attacks in staggering numbers every year you're not making the government force people to exercise and put down cheeseburgers I mean we have to decide like and and say they say oh well the heart disease is not infectious okay it's all but the actual cause of death is pretty staggering like the the numbers of people that are dying from heart attacks and cancer from

preventable decision like decisions that people make that actively wind up costing the public in Untold numbers of I mean what's this what's the amount of money that's the burden the financial burden on the Health Care system because of people that are obese because of heart disease because of cancer it's crazy and a lot of his lifestyle choices and the government does nothing to stop those deaths did you read that like on Guardian they're talking about thinness is a sign of white supremacy now thinness Fitness Fitness sign of white supremacy yeah I know a lot of

black people that are really fit they need to talk to David Goggins he's a white supremacist he doesn't even know it well that's just people looking for things to be upset about and to call things racist or sexist or homophobic or whatever or bigoted they they're just looking for things to Target but this is in North Korea is that in North Korea when they said this is our sworn enemy death Americans doesn't mean much like there's so much words that doesn't mean anything MH and now I inan America it's same thing like everybody's a h

after is every is a Nazi everybody's a racist and I'm a racist I'm a bigot right I'm a Nazi now too like I did not even know what the like Nazi was the problem is they're just trying to shut people down by using those words and those words are horrible if someone is an actual racist and you you call them a racist and everybody else sees that they're racist it's a horrible accusation so they're using that so freely yeah that they're distorting the meaning of it and it doesn't work anymore it's like crying wolf the

old expression of the boy who cried wolf the story that's literally what's happening right now in this country it's very strange I I I know that's what people told mean this is new to them too because I came here in 2016 January yeah and I thought this was always America was like and like what was a country that I dreamed of far away so well it's it's still here you know that the ideals that built this country still here with a lot of people you know a lot of people that support freedom and the freedom

of expression and the ability to speak freely and to to debate thoughts openly all that stuff still exists with a lot of people here but there's a lot of people that are are willing to give that up they're willing to give that up if their side can win and it's very confusing because it's a a mixture of toxic tribalism and short-sightedness mixed with ideology and it's a it's a disturbing moment in time really is so how do you what do you think we how can we oppose Chinese uh regime it's infiltrating everywhere that's a qu

that's a good question you know when you see John Cena from the WWE apologizing for calling Taiwan a country and you're like holy [ __ ] LeBron James yeah this guy talking about Justice all day long in America yeah so how what do we do with well they're corrupted by money that's the problem the problem is China look when that movie the Fast and the Furious came out I think the numbers with I'm roughly saying the numbers but I think the the numbers were the box office weekend was $160 million 136 million of it was

from China oh my gosh yeah it's terrifying oh when he had to apologize and said I'm so sorry I made a mistake I was really tired all he did was called Taiwan a country right I mean it wasn't it wasn't some thing where he where he said you know China's a terrible place it sucks I hate the Chinese people I he didn't say anything like that he didn't say anything like that all he said was he called Taiwan a country it's crazy it's crazy that people are willing to give a country like China that much

power because of money but that's that's the reality of this world that we live in we don't manufacture anything in America anymore I mean know all these woke people tweeting on iPhones that are made at foxcon in China where they have Nets around the building to stop people from jumping off the roof because there's so many people that commit suicide that they have to have [ __ ] Nets yeah and the fact that people don't make that connection they don't understand how crazy that is that you're literally supporting this company that is making people work

so much for so little and they're so desperate and so so sad that they're jumping off roofs and numers so high they have to put Nets on them no one even brings it up convenient yeah strange it's a strange form of uh hypocrisy yeah do you think I mean I don't think capitalism is problem because then people say oh because of the capitalism make people greedy right cuz people in capitalist countries were way better than people in communist countries that I've ever seen and way less corrupt I think they look at the worst examples of

capitalism and there are horrible examples of capitalism and there are people that are willing to do anything for money right I mean you're seeing that with people like John Cena apologizing for China right that's the kind of thing where that is a form of capitalism that you're seeing apologizing to the Chinese Communist party but it really is about capitalism about his ability to make money and the the chance that he might lose money or that his his uh his film might not be distributed over there anymore anymore it's like a real problem that he had

to apologize for you're seeing that with uh like these subprime mortgages that cause the housing collapse you're seeing that with when you see corruption in the stock market or when you see that with you you see any kind of Savings and Loans corruption when and is financial corruption and stealing money and the uh corporate influence that they have on politicians and lobbyists and special interest groups that's all capitalism run a monck right but the Bare Bones of it the idea that there's many parts of this country that are still in meritocracy there's many parts of

this country where you can work hard and do better for yourself and accomplish things and provide a service that people enjoy and they give you money and the harder you work and the better your product is the more you profit from it and that gives people incentive to do well that the foundation that still exists we just have to be very careful that we don't give that up we have to be very careful that we don't give that up and give the power over to the government because the government is ultimately they're human beings and

people human beings when they have unchecked power it's very dangerous and it has been throughout history the default position if you go throughout history and you look at all of the governments that existed until America really came along it's dictators yeah all of it's always been the case it's always been one group that's in power the best way to be to be in power is to be ruthless and to attack anytime you're challenged and confronted and punish people in open air execute them publicly any dissent gets shut down instantaneously censor any speech that doesn't go

along with the speech that the government is is is projecting that's always been the standard that's been the standard throughout human history every King every Emperor they all did the same thing until the United States and there's people in the United States that are willing to give that up yeah they're willing to give that up because they want their side to win and it's terrifying it is it's terrifying because once you give it up you're never getting it back unless we go to war again unless we have a civil war in this country and then

if we have a civil war in this country gets who's going to sneak in China China's going to sneak in and they're going to take over all sorts of Corporations by buying them out they're going to take over all sorts of uh politicians by influencing their campaigns and changing the laws that they're willing to support and changing the Amendments and the the the the the different ways that we govern the country they're going to change the way people vote they're going to change all kinds of things and this is just it's just it's almost what

the founding the founding fathers somehow or another knew that this could happen when they put in place the Bill of Rights and all these amendments when when they were putting in the First Amendment the Second Amendment all all these amendments they were doing it because they understood human nature they understood what has happened in the past when people have organized what has happened in the past when Free Speech has been stifled what has happened in the past when we allow someone to censor us and we allow someone to dictate what gets discussed and what doesn't

get discussed it's very dangerous I mean the only thing at Colombia entire four years that I hear is that the only way to solve the problem that we have is tearing down this Foundation of this country because the Constitution itself is a bigotry written by white supremacist so I mean that is I mean I don't know that's every conclusion of every class that I took it's crazy what's the alternative the alternative is socialism and they always say that socialism hasn't been done correctly okay but the problem with socialism is what Jordan talks about all the

time Jordan Peterson he says you cannot have an equality of outcome and it's true you can't it's very dangerous and people don't seeed yes they tried and one guy became a God and everybody don't even know they are slaves now and you can manipulate the truth to fit the narrative that allows you to stay in power and keep utilizing the tools that allowed you to get into power in the first place and then make it no different than every other government that's ever controlled the people throughout human history we we have a chance to not

have it like that in this country that's why that's why when people oppose Universal restrictions when people oppose uh widespread Government powers to do things like that was one of the big oppositions one of the big things that people opposed about lockdowns was not that we shouldn't be careful with vulnerable people during a pandemic the problem is you're giving the government the ability to decide what is essential and what is non essential who can work and who can't work what chances you can take and not take and they're not being honest about all sorts of

aspects of the disease like they didn't even they weren't even willing to discuss whether or not this disease possibly was leaked from a lab until long after Trump was out of office you know and even to this day Liberals are terrified ofak that up because they think that if you bring it up somehow or another it can connect you to Trump that you you'll you or or Fox News or you've said something that Fox News said what even if what if Fox News was right do you care about the truth or do you care about

supporting your side do you care about your tribe and more people are terrified of being rejected by their tribe than they are of the truth not getting out you should be terrified of Lies you should be Terri terrify of the truth not getting out you should you don't know what the landscape is unless you're allowed to assess and analyze all the aspects of Life all of them and people are terrified of doing that today there and a lot of it is because of social media it's because there's so many people that just live on social

media all day long you know and they're on there just constantly going to war in the worst way possible with text messages get triggered by every single thing they see well didn't they talk to you about that in Colombia too they tell you about things that triggered you so before the class they send you email and say oh in this material we're going to talk about maybe racism or rape or any kind of Oppression whatever it is if you it hurts it triggers your feelings do not even do the reading and don't even come to

class and before the class they announc even at any point during this class it triggers your feelings leave the class and don't even tell me what what you fear and they people emotionally not stable so they bring the Comfort dogs in the classroom they bring dogs yeah so dogs are looking around the people and then because they need a comfort from the animals right they cannot even sit in the how many dogs several dogs at a per class right what if the dogs start fighting they bark and they leak and they chew and I asked

one day like can I take my baby he was going to take a nap in the show I said no so they said no to the baby but it's okay with dogs no babies but you can have a dog yeah wow and yeah this is the this my emotional support baby exactly what if I said I get triggered e i the baby I wonder why can't you do that why can't you say that but this is so mad the problem is your baby's half white and so your baby might be racist exactly your baby might

be a part of the patriarchy I know but what is this self loading why are they committing suicide by themselves as a civilization like this is in North Korea we have gone next our head yeah but in this country you have freedom to learn and read and think why are they doing this it's so thing about human nature right we chose Hitler we voted him right people did that you know the there's an expression that I've said on this podcast many times but I'll say it again is that hard times create Hard Men Hard Men

create soft times soft times create soft men soft men create hard times we are now around soft men and hard times yeah we're we're in the time of toxic masculinity right where you could be toxically male yeah and then if you're if you're suppressing masculinity you're you're going to bring on hard times you're going there's it doesn't mean masculinity doesn't mean you're mean it doesn't mean you're angry it means strength it means dis discipline it means the ability like like you need a military and if you don't think you you need a military you need

to go and pay attention to the rest of the world because there's militaries all over the world that are doing horrific things if you don't have a military in this country that can combat that and at least act as a deterrent to them doing things you're going to get taken over that's what's happened I mean look what's happening to Hong Kong right I mean this is a a city essentially doesn't have a military and they were a British colony for a long time and they gave it back over to China and they were kind of

AC like they were independent until recently and during the pandemic they ramped it up and it's gotten even worse yeah it's exactly what we talked about MH you can't you can't be weak yeah and in this country being weak is thought of as a virtue yeah Jordan Peterson has a really interesting way of looking at this and he said it to me once and it made a lot of sense he said people think that you should be weak and you should be docile and then you you you should be a pacifist he goes no you

should be a monster he said you should be a monster you should be ruthlessly ambitious and then learn how to control it and it's that old expression it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war wow it's an old expression but it makes sense because it doesn't mean that you can't be kind if you're strong but it does mean you can't be strong if you're weak yeah if you're weak you're [ __ ] and there's a lot of weak people in this country right now that are trying to take

control and they're Gathering up all the other weak people and they say yeah let's all be weak together yeah and they're willing to embrace all sorts of ideas that have been disproven not just disproven that have caused the deaths of Untold millions of people in Mau is China and stalinist Russia and it's crazy and they they're shortsighted and they're shortsighted because in the short term they want their tribe to win and there's so many weak people that'll join along with them there's so many just simple-minded dards that just want to promote their tribe yeah I

mean they encourage you to be triggered they encourage you to be weak right when you go and they they try not to expose you to any reality that's the thing what university like Ser you and you are never getting a real sense of the word I mean the fact they cannot they triggered by the hearing the word rap what they're going to do when they get raped they're never going to revive again afterwards well it's the disturbing thing is that when you're learning things if you're going to learn you you're going to be exposed to

some horrific truths yeah like if you're going to learn about Stalin you're going to I mean if I've talked to my friend Lex fredman when he was uh talking to me about some of the experiences that um his grandmother's people had when Stalin was running Russia and people were eating their own children yeah I mean that's nor Koreans and it's the same sort of thing they were starving these people to death in order to keep control of them yeah and the results were horrific if you don't hear that if you don't hear that in all

of its terrifying brutal detail then you're not going to be aware and even then you're not going to really be aware like you're aware you are absolutely aware of what can happen when things go horrifically wrong because you were born into a society that was horrifically wrong you were born into this terrifying dictatorship that exists right now while you and I are sitting here yeah in Austin Texas talking drinking coffee having a good old time there's people in concentration camps for no fault of their own in a country where you were born and if that

doesn't get discussed people don't understand if if you say oh are you triggered by this well you don't have to hear it that's you're not going to learn if we're not going to we're not going to expose to these things we're not going to learn and even then just the the abstract Concepts that you're just the way you're discussing it I it's resonating I understand what you're saying but I don't know what the [ __ ] you experienced I'd have to go there I would have to live your life there's there's only you would have

to like physically experience it in person in order for it to really get into your head and we're not even allowing kids to read words that [ __ ] with their heads yeah no it's you are so capable and by going to this school system they make you almost handicap they disable you they change your potential and as you say we born as a Warriors who knows but they make us to incapable of anything and the biggest problem you have is somebody calls you wrong pronoun and this triggers them this makes them depressed and this

is the thing all they think is the biggest Injustice they've ever seen yeah we've all we've weaponized people being offended too yeah when people are offended they get a massive amount of extra attention all they have to do is yell about it and scream about it and talk about how horrible it is and everybody's like oh my God I hear your truth I I I feel you when you're saying this and it makes them special you're encouraging people to act up instead of encouraging people to to change their perspective and to see things for what

they are or to look at the way other people see things to look at it from someone else's Viewpoint from someone else's life from someone else's learned experiences and it was really funny like while I was writing my book uh my agent was telling me my address telling me like y me you're traumatized so you need to go see somebody called a therapist right so it's like what the heck is therapist and then they're like oh you get like pay her like um she's a normally $2 200 I mean $700 per hour but she's going

to give you discount so per hour $20 $700 an hour really that's what they get City but then like she's going to give me discount raise to $20 per hour basically go talk to her how hard my life was and then I was like the fact that I know what trauma is what PTSD is like the fact that there are people like right now 25 millions of my people don't even know what trauma is right this is ridiculous and I was like I mean what is the point of me then surviving all of that now

just going to complaining how hard it was what is the point of me surviving any of it so someone can tell you you're going to be okay it's okay to have these feelings exactly you on me it's okay it's okay to have these feelings yeah it's okay to hey man it's okay to be bitter right it's okay to be complaining and like blaming everything El did you go to therapy did you do it absolutely not but I mean 80% of my Investment Bank are Consulting friends in y go to therapy and I support that they

should is they can afford it it's a thing but the fact I couldn't fathom in the beginning that you need to go to therapy to survive in Manhattan I think people need um to be able to talk to people about things to try to work through them yeah and I think a lot of people feel like they can't find someone in their life that they trust enough with their true feelings and their real thoughts and that's a that's a sad Testament to the kind of relationships that a lot of people have a lot of friendships

and and and romance romantic relationships that people have in their life that they can't talk openly about the real live experiences mhm it's like people we have so much versions of ourselves inside us right like I'm I can see why people become the guards of concentration clamps right like that's a thing humans are not initially good or bad it's all about how we shape them how when you were talking about experience exping dead bodies on the street but feeling nothing or feeling that boy with his intestines hanging out his back and feeling nothing yeah that's

because of the way you grew up yeah that's the thing like humans are most adaptive species we are so adaptable yeah and that's what good and bad is we can adapt we can adapt to the concentration camps right we can be the guards and not feel guilty about it and I think not talking about that not talking about the evil or what we are Cape of the darkness that's that like everything in nor news is a wonderful things now in in this country because they say there's no room for his speech they want everything to

be happy flowery words yeah but the thing is we have dark side no matter what you do they're going to be murderers they're going to be rapist yeah even we talk don't talk about rape rape going to happen so getting rid of these people and deep platforming and cancering them we don't get rid of actual problem so in a way it's off us talk about our full nature what we are actually capable of right we can be so resilient compassionate beings or we can be complete like [ __ ] like not caring about anything at

all like Kim and we have to learn why people think differently than us and the only way you can do that is by talking to them exactly and there's a lot of those people that think in a way that you find problematic they can be converted they can be talked to but not if you treat them like they're the enemy and cast them side and and block them from communicating yeah it's like that's the thing like would you rather like I would rather know if there's a hter exist when do the Gen I want to

know about it would you not want to know about it I would know if somebody planning that right there like people in the past were on Facebook they posting I'm going to commit a like murder in the s's Church they post on Facebook isn't it much better for FBI to know that than not giving them the platform so we don't know who's like planning the mass murder right now right right when did you when do you feel like because you had this time in your life where you could see that boy with his intestines hanging

out of his back and it didn't bother you he didn't feel anything when do you think you started to feel things with my son um cuz the hardest thing wasn't like learning about the system or none of that the even China like I was always numb like even when I was raped I was like looking at myself some roof like some in the corners and like oh that's not me how can it be happening to me right I was completely ignoring that and in North Korea to you don't like you're so numb in your brain

uh when I had my son in America in 2018 that's when I was feeling things and I was so grateful that I felt even sadness you were worried that you wouldn't feel feel it mhm I was very worried like um it's yeah feeling something was very challenging and giving birth to my son brought a lot of new feelings to me and of course the compassion is one of them right like I worry about the I want the world to be beautiful place for him right I actually care about the humans and I don't know this

part is like this is edit the first time that I knew what love was and un unconditional love was did you I I saw that you had a rick Dublin here yes I had one of those experiences like unplanned nobody knew the MDMA which was was that what it was in California and that's but until then people told him oh I love you I was like if you don't sleep with me rape me want something why would you love me right I never understood that unconditional love between humans never felt like safe so you never

felt love with friends no it was so I mean I learned love later very very in life so I didn't not I knew the word but I did not actually ever felt it so when I own that for the first time I was like all I felt was love and zero zero fear and that's like I know what when these people say they love me actually this is how they feel actually yeah it's possible to love somebody unconditionally and that after that I became pregnant because I wasn't able to get pregnant from all the my

trauma I had I had three IVF cyclers at 22 and after that medicine something I don't know relaxed in my body I was able to conceive and I had my son I think a lot of people could benefit from one of those experiences yeah I think it would change a lot about the way we look at life the way we look at each other and would just eliminate a lot of the anger that people have a lot of the misplaced Ang mhm unproductive unhelpful corrosive dangerous anger for no reason there's so much of it so

much of it is so confusing and so much of it is based on our our own insecurities and our fear that other people won't love us back yeah and you if you do one of those experiences with other people and you're all in it together you realize wow so the world could be like this all the time exactly World it can be so different isn't it yeah it can be everything can be understood like that's the thing like in the center of everything there's love and I did not know what love was and time of

my life that's a thing when people ask me if you can be on nor North Korean television what would you tell them I think I would tell them I love you CU they never heard that before they might not know even what I'm saying what the heck is she saying they love she loves me right right but I think that's a thing like I did not know what it was but everything that we do for love we have children for love right why do we even live everything the point of life is like love right

and I did not know that until I the had the point so I mean that's why I cannot be be I love man like I my son is a man my father was a man like even though a lot of experience I had with the man was negative that I was able to overcome it right but think a lot of people cannot overcome that trauma cuz they not just not able to make that connection it's one of the terrifying lessons of being a human being is that there can be wonderful loving experiences at the same

time where horrific things are happening somewhere else and you know better than anybody alive because of your the country where you were bornan that's happening right now that there's a place where there is no love and everyone's afraid yeah and there just this horrific regime that's running this country and keeping people starving and it's happening at the same time as iPhones and the internet and electric cars and all the wonderful things that we're experiencing here in America mhm it's the worst example of human life and it exists simultaneously I know it's a thing I thought

if I can show them tell them what's happening I thought something going to change right but of course not it's not and there's a reason why these PE problems keep existing but the thing is I saw that one of the like interview we did with Elam musk right yeah I have to be hopeful because what's the alternative yes what is the alternative to being hopeful nothing El that's the thing that's why even though I don't know people going to now listen to me and help me to raise awareness and condemn Chinese regime to stop suppor

sponsor gong I don't know that's going to happen but I gotta be hopeful that's the only thing we have as a Humanity we got to be hopeful and we can do so much when we keep that hope alive it's just terrifying that it's ignored by the powers that be in not just this country but many countries that they're not all just standing up and saying that this is an atrocity that's happening inside of our lifetime we're doing nothing about it mhm it's the thing like I have no problem when people going like at the Canada

good store putting the like bloods on them like in New York so right I remember when I was South Korea there's a on TV there's a national concert through the celebrities and singing and crying I thought like okay big disaster happened right why would these people emotion and crying and it was a fundraising for the the dogs and puppies and animals people eating animals no no it was just like their environment how shelter like environment is hard for the this animals how it's not clean how they don't you know shelters right so they were crying

and I was initially shocked like what do you mean animals have rights right as a human being I did not know I had a rights as a human right right right and what the really like animals puppies have rights here and then on top of that I go meet so many people the philanthropist and they are willing to give millions of dollars to save animals and dolphins and little dogs that don't die from Canada Goose but they do not want to rescue these girls are raped every single day yeah and somehow I think this anti-human

sentiment I don't know even what that is like the fact that we care about animals right it's beauti thing isn't it be care that something cannot speak for themselves they are vulnerable and there are people a lot of people cannot speak for themselves right now that as you said being free is exception this is very unusual thing even to this age like four billion people living under some authoritarian dictatorship countries so what we got is really unique and people s refuse to speak for another human being they would rather speak for a little puppy and

it's very the hypocrisy that doesn't make sense like if someone's suffering that bothers you why the human suffering doesn't bother you I think it's so big and so insurmountable that they don't feel like they can do anything about it and so they're scared and so they don't speak about it because to actually do something would require an enormous effort to do something to change the regime of North Korea like what does a person who lives in Berkeley who loves to support you know social justice causes how is that person going to affect the the dictatorship

that's happening right now in North Korea it feels like they can't do anything about it they can tweet about what's happening that China does to North Koreans yeah they're scared to even tweet about China they they'd rather tweet calling you know some White Guy racist yeah inherently or some you know this person or that or that person of this and come up with some sort of uh you know insults for people that don't agree with the what they agree with it's um it seems too big it's it's a it's it seems like they can't put

a dent in it so they that's a lie though they are telling themselves little thing that even L tweet would help I think a lot of people don't even know about it exactly that's the thing like the mainstream doesn't give a platform to the people who want to challenge the CCP right so I mean then I mean these girls who were captured by Taliban Isis few hundred thousand people were oppressed get no P prise right yeah they're like 25 Millions people oppressed when did you hear anybody recognizes from North Korea or anything for this cause

what did you think when Trump met with Kim Jong-un what with Trump right that's the thing it seems like it seems like Trump got to everything do wrong or everything got to be right right I mean everybody nobody's perfect I do think Trump was really right on calling out China he was the first president to actually talk about to C ping that you got to fix North because you enabl it that was the first president ever mentioned China with North Korea he was that was great but sitting down with Kim zongan without any preconc because

think about it inside North Korea there are military powerful men and they think if Kim jongan is backed by American president they are not going to start the cool or do anything about it so for kimjong was a very good opportunity to legitimate his power within the country inside North Korea to consolidate power cuz until that point even season pink didn't invite Kim Jong to China over even once so Kim Jong was more like this young man nobody accepted but Trump want to meet with kimjongun so SHP invited kimjongun to over first before Trump meeting

so that's how he went to China for the first time and meeting C ping because he knew that Trump was going to meet him so I mean of course China won't have influence beforehand that's why right before the meeting he went to China first and until that point china didn't even invite him Zone it was too lower for them really they would not even Rec yeah it was they like a little brother the Pu estate so they would not treat like Kim like a leader he didn't even get the invitation to visit China is there

a real possibility that someone could overthrow him from with inside the country it's impossible China is behind it China is fully behind of you know China uh R lend this land for 200 years 50 years on this like mine towns mining blah blah everything is L to China so North Korea is not Chinese and the labor is free for the Chinese to use so everything is now Chinese in North Korea it's it's China basically nothing is North Korea anymore wow mind everything is like land like 200 years that like that's the leas they have I

mean how many generation that change in 200 years time right so it's China's North Korea is China there is really no distinction at this point and China is very clever in the way they've uh they have all these interests in all different parts of the world and in Africa and all these different minds andh they all through economic power that's how they disable them and ins slave to their ideology and then they cannot speak up and that's happening to American even IV legal schools get funding from China so all these researches like papers they don't

do things that challenge their narrative right and the media h right they need the money from China so they're not going to do anything about it so that's how slowly they infiltrate every sector that we have right now you know part of me is um very upset that more people have not talked to you well because I'm a liar because I'm a liar I'm the propaganda puppet of the West CIA trained me that's what they say oh yeah so when I was starting giving interviews in the beginning that like 15 and 13 the age difference

that I did not know right and then like uh the mountain that climbed they went to Google uh map somewhere and check the altitude so basically scien altitude I should not have said it was Mountain it was a high heill but as a child like I don't know what altitude is a hill or Mountain I still don't know the difference so I said Mountain that she's alive because she was she climbed was a h so they try to get you on a tacticality yeah with that with the altitude of the hill and then also on

a tacticality with the age which you explained so she's like trying to change her n but one thing I did hide was that I trafficked in China cuz in South Korea still girls virginity everything and I wasn't planning to come to America right I didn't I didn't even have a right to come here I was South Korean I I wanted to have a child I wanted to have family and if I say I was raped 2 years by human trafficker who's going to any normal same family going to take me right so I had to

lie that I said I was okay my mom only raped and she covered me and when I was writing my book I knew I mean of course penguin is not stupid they took a legal team with the people with me and then got the live recording of people who cross desert with me who grew up with me everybody so they got the live recording in the Leer team so that's why after the book there's not even one single accusation cuz they were going to sue afterwards like we have entire evidence so it was all everything

before the book and also that is the thing is uh I mean a lot of ma leninist they sympathize North K regim right and so many people hate America and I I'm here saying America is the best country in human history of course I now became the symbol of this bigot tree so but I'm just shocked that PE more people in America are not talking to you that more of these mainstream Outlets don't want to hear your story because of China P my story is very inconvenient cuz the because I'm a slave actually I was

a slave and I was bought by Chinese and exploited by them so how do they cover my story without including China piece it's impossibility I can't believe that that's keeping people like the Washington Post or the New York Times I know but it's it's hard to believe that this isn't just a human story MH a staggering human story an amazing human story in in terms of like the the education that you've had the experiences that you've had the way you've changed and evolved and having escaped from North Korea into China then to South Korea then

eventually to America and experienced all these things from this very unique perspective I mean it's an it's an incredible story but no because they expect me to become now victim right cuz I they expect me to hate all the men and the system and and not but like I do not like I'm not a victim I'm very grateful like my book starts that there are two things I'm grateful for that I was born in North Korea and that I escaped so it's it's like I don't fit the narrative they are trying to portray in any

way wow just that's very disappointing to me that there is a narrative that they want you to portray because your actual story is a very human story and it's a it's a contemporary story that's very important when you look at the way the world world is is being run certain parts of it like North Korea or like China it's this is this is from a person like yourself no one else is going to be able to tell that story your story is it's impossible for anyone that hasn't experienced it to tell it has to be

you yeah but that that's why I'm grateful despite all that you know uh there's I mean North Korea did everything they could to character assassinate me cuz I that's what they have the biggest hacker hackers and they have the the armies of hackings and go harass people and hack the Sony studio remember when they were made a movie so they exactly the same thing they were reaching out to penguin my editors like we're going to blow penguin if you write this book and there's so much harassment and internally we were so scared like penguin people

like we don't want to lose our job we don't want to blow up they don't don't even talk about in the public that you get attacked from North Korea regime like North Korean diplomate in London was reaching out to my Editor to sit down meet them in person wow to stop the book so and of course like everything is written on media that's all believable right everything's written then people just believe what it whatever it was yeah so it's now that's what nor is so good at like uh creating this narrative and character assassin people

and eventually it doesn't work they're going to kill you directly and that's what they did initially they were like threatening me and stopped talking about it and then I still did so they put entire three generations of my family on that uh North Korean propaganda Channel and they made them to denounce me and they are gone so they're gone yeah after because I still have agents in North Korea and they all disappeared so they were all killed yeah or I me concentration means death so they even including my neighbors and that was so unbelievable is

that I mean what's the crime of being a neighbor they were not even that close to me but these neighbors the fact that they knew me that was their crime and this video is on YouTube and they so they went after everyone you knew yeah everybody I knew everybody I knew in my entire town and entire my father's side and mother's side entire generation and my cousin that I raised and yeah that's the thing like this is I knew this is a evil regime but I somehow thought like how can they be threatened by 13

years old I'm not even sharing how North Korea develops their misile program right all I'm saying is what the UN says like there is a public execution you see from satellite photos you see and there's like 33,000 noren defectors made to South Korea they talk about starvation and then the that we get captured in China and being sold and there's documentaries about it so I'm not even sharing the first class information I just didn't think they were going to be threatened I just really didn't think that I was going to be a threatening to them

at all and where they don't like allow any descent what do you think is going to happen with that country like China they can last a lot longer they might last longer than us they might beat us because that's a thing like it's um as you said people become soften and they do not know how to be resilient right and also as you said people here being surrounding such a goodness of the word they don't recognize they don't even know how evil can be a man be like right a regime can be like they don't

know the how I mean how cruel these regimes are they don't even recognize the the darkness they see so I think because our inability to recognize this crime and darkness I think they might Outlast us so that is my biggest fear and so you have a genuine concern that this country could collapse yeah I mean every civil civilization collapsed Persians I mean how many civilization before us came right they ROM exactly so there shouldn't be any exception to Western civilization if we do not not appreciate and regard this civilization that enlightment that we got especially

if you pay attention to what's going on right now of course and especially the way it's emanating from the universities which is what's teaching and and you know putting ideas in the minds of young people who will then go on to run things this Foundation is corrupt the only way that is to us to change is of getting rid of the western civilization getting rid of American Constitution right every it's not I'm saying like every class you said at Colombia that's how they end the class right every problem goes going back to root getting rid

of white men they are the problem they are the source of every single problem that we have they mess up Africa they mess up Asia they mess up every single thing and like one class I remember at the end of senior year taking the music class right it should be the least political western music is a core one of the Core Curriculum and the professor asking who has a problem studying western music and of course everybody raise their hands cuz because of this bigots like mozzart and bov and they silence all the minority groups we

have to listen to this bigots right now and it's the fact that Colombia having this core is like a shame so I'm like I'm sitting in the west what's a problem studying West music in the west right well not only that you're studying musical history you can't deny the history you can't deny that these people made this music it it doesn't absolve anyone of any crimes that they committed if they committed crimes yeah but to deny it all yeah they say like reading Jane Austin is like a hidden operation that we don't see because she

was living in a time of white colonialism and white supremacy so the fact that you read Jane Austin is you get subconscious brainwashed this is how you need to look for hidden oppression oh my God it's so disturbing it's so real though I mean that's really what's happening right now and people are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to have their children indoctrinated into these ideas yeah well I don't know where we're going to end up in 10 years I don't know I don't know I don't know either but um but I really enjoyed talking

to you thank you very much you're a very very brave person and I think that your message is it's it's you it's very important and it's also there's no one else El who can tell it it it has to be someone like you who's who's gone through what you've gone through and I think it's huge for the world to to hear it's it's it's incredibly significant and um I hope more people want to talk to you no I think is I'm so grateful is that in the desert when I was crossing the desert uh my

father died a few month uh from a cancer he had in the concentration camp and he died and I had nobody to call right he died in the morning morning 700 a.m. waiting till night so I can like uh bear him in the middle of mountain and I could even cry because if you cry people going to neighbors going to hear so I'm numb like sitting his next to dead body and I was thinking wow like being a human means nothing like even dog dies you go to your neighbor and ask them like your dog

died and in that desert like that's the thing like I wasn't afraid of dying I was like thinking nobody knew that I existed said nobody knew that I came to this earth and left in this middle of desert and that's a thing like nobody knows that nor Koreans exist nobody knows our stories so I think the fact that people knows my father and my people is U it's biggest comfort for me you know I think that even that's not even given to us they don't know we exist so I'm so grateful that you gave me

this opportunity well I'm I'm very Greatful that you came here just to talk about it and to tell people and I'm glad a lot of people are going to hear this thank you thank you thank you all right goodbye [Music] [Applause] [Music]