Is MARVEL Making a Big MISTAKE with SPIDER-MAN 4?

who the hell are you I'm Peter Parker that's not possible I am Spider-Man hey welcome back to screen Crush I'm Ryan Ary so recent reports are indicating that the MCU Spider-Man 4 will be another big multiversal movie featuring Peters 1 2 and three all together again for a world shattering Adventure on our journey to Avengers doomsday and Avengers Secret Wars now I think this is an absolutely horrible idea to make Spider-Man 4 another big multiversal movie and I think a grounded Spider-Man 4 featuring a street level story would have been the better path to take

but Colton Ogburn the guy who's trapped in our television but doesn't know so please don't tell him Colton thinks that Sony and Marvel are making the right move by going full Multiverse again following the massive success of Spider-Man no way home so here in a bit we are going to Duke it out over which version of Spider-Man 4 would have been better and then we're going to have our friend of the channel Tommy beol join in and tell us who was right but first let's give some background on the months-long speculation of what Spider-Man 4

would be about and the reported budding of heads between Sony and Marvel on which direction to take the next film and I want to remind you guys we are going on tour come meet me Colton and the Gang at a city near you so we can geek out in person it's going to be a blast our first show is in Boston on November 14th tickets are selling fast so be sure to get yours the link in the description below or find them on our Discord also linked below so the Indiana Spider-Man no way home perfectly

set up and laid the groundwork for a grounded Spider-Man story in Spider-Man 4 the MCU Spider-Man has been great but he's always had Tony Stark and the Avengers to leane on he's got his Advanced Stark suit plus the iron SP spider suit and both are tricked out with an advanced AI assistant Edith stands for even dead I'm the hero Tony loved his acronyms however the Indi of no way home did away with all of that Peter no longer has his Advanced suit he's in a new homemade cloth suit like his predecessors and no one knows

who Peter Parker is he's become a true nobody just like in the comics he no longer has the resources of the Avengers or Tony Stark he's a poor kid living in the city who has lost everything but is determined to stick by his responsibilities as Spider-Man and protect the neighborhood he loves Spider-Man 4 would have been the perfect opportunity to give us a grounded solo street level Spider-Man film without all the bells and whistles of Avengers level MCU movie Peter would have finally been able to do his own thing out of the shadow of Tony

Stark and it wouldn't have felt out of place because no way home perfectly sets up Spider-Man to return to his roots and be that more grounded hero sure Spider-Man going to space was cool and at the time it was super different from what we gotten in the past but it's coming up on 10 years since we've seen a truly grounded solo Spider-Man story I wanted to see Spider-Man team up with Daredevil in a fight against the Kingpin I wanted to see Sydney Sweeney play the Black Cat yeah and I want to see Spider-Man fight a

cat yeah we want to see Peter struggling with what it means to not only be Spider-Man but what it means to be Peter Parker I wanted to finally get to see Tom Holland's Peter Parker be the true Peter Parker his decision to not tell MJ who the hell he was at the end of no way home was the most Spider-Man thing he could have done and no way home really was the final Act of what has been an origin story for the MCU Spider-Man that movie Perfectly set the stage for a true character Centric story

that focuses more on the struggle of being Spiderman instead of the spectacle of the spiderverse in the greater MCU but it would appear that Sony won that debate over which direction to take the web Slinger there are reports that Tom Holland and Kevin fige were pulling for a more grounded story that would have tied Spider-Man into the street level wing of the MCU but Sony seemingly wanted another cash grab multiversal Extravaganza with Andrew Garfield and Toby Maguire back alongside Tom Holland hey person what game are you playing on your phone right now oh hey Doug

this is raid Shadow Legends they have over 4 million users with 800 Champions 16 factions more than a million builds and over 30 bosses this game is very popular ah no but I thought raid shatter Legends was just some pay to win game not at all Doug actually raid Shadow Legends has plenty of free-to-play endgame users in fact I'm one of them I've never paid money for this game and I am playing it right now yeah but it's supposed to be some kind of time grinder right wrong again buddy the game actually has an Auto

Battle feature that I'm using right now yeah but I saw on Discord that you know people saying the game has no depth you know it's just like smashy smashy uhuh no not at all Doug sorry to disagree with you again but raid has a ton of story content it's very strategic and in the later levels especially quite challenging you know a lot of people think this is just a generic mobile game until they give it a shot the game is a way to pass the time or if you want to dive into something more complex

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are just my thoughts Colton tell me why I'm wrong well you know Ryan it's not that you're wrong I too would have loved to have gotten a Spider-Man 4 that was closer to the ground and just an overall more intimate story about what it means to be Peter Parker and I think we can still get that movie with Tom Holland in a few years I mean he's a young guy and if they're smart they'll have him playing Spider-Man for like the next 15 years Disney brought him back they're going to make him do this till

he's 90 but we have to remember that right now we are in the Multiverse Saga and to be more specific we are now in phase six of the Multiverse Saga we're in the end game now I understood that reference Spider-Man no way home back in Phase 4 did a great job at helping to set the stage for the Multiverse Saga and our path to Avengers Secret Wars so I'm not so sure that it makes sense to reverse course until a smaller story between a film like Spider-Man no way home and the next two Avengers films

if Spider-Man is just going to be thrown right back into the cosmic thick of it I think we need to keep that steady incline going give us another adventure with Tom Toby Andrew have fun with it I mean if there was ever a time to have these three share the screen again that time is now the Multiverse Saga and the film leading up to Secret Wars are the perfect time to get wacky and fulfill all of those epic Nostalgia moments we've been craving these three Spider-Man together on screen was something that worked too well not

to do again their chemistry was amazing and the movie did Serious numbers especially considering that the covid pandemic was still heavily impacting the box office so I 100% get why Sony would want to try to catch that lightning in a second bottle I mean we all know it's going to make a ton of money and this time they could actually Market the film with Toby and Andrew on the posters and in the trailers and look man there's all the time in the world after Aventure Secret Wars for them to make a solo and more street

level Spider-Man film with Tom Holland after Secret Wars I don't think Marvel is going to touch the Multiverse again at least not for a while so that would close the door on future reprisals of Toby and Andrew alongside Tom plus I mean hey Toby and Andrew are getting older let them play Spider-Man a few more times now while they can can still do the role justice so again I completely get and even agree with the arguments for doing a grounded Spider-Man 4 but I also see the potential and really the demand for another story with

Peters 1 2 and 3 and now's the time to do that story strike while the Iron Man's hot doing a multiversal Spider-Man 4 in no way home in no way prohibits them from doing a grounded Trilogy of Spider-Man films with Tom Holland after that and by then Tom will be even older and maybe we capture that same greatness that the Ry films had hton you make very Salient points but you're wrong and let me explain why and just to mediate this whole conversation we brought in our friend Tommy Beck told here so let's go over

whether or not Spider-Man really Spider-Man 4 really should be a multiversal movie or should it have been a very simple Spider-Man movie like we all wanted and a little bit later I kind of want to get into null and some of the stuff that's happening in venom and if we're actually going to see Tom Hardy's Venom meet Tom Holland Spider-Man so first of all let me address some of these points that you made and I had to write them down you said it's the Multiverse Saga so we should have a Multiverse Saga so we should

have a Multiverse movie I'm sorry the infinity Saga didn't have an infinity stone in every single movie in fact I'd have to go back and check the records but I'm pretty sure the Infinity Stones featured in less than half of the movies and there was not an infinity stone featured in a Spider-Man movie in that film my point is had they had Infinity Stones in every single movie in the infinity Saga it would have gotten old really really fast also yeah but we've already done it we've seen the Spider-Man multiversal movie they were used that

movie was a great introduction to everybody about what the Multiverse means and it was finished now I think we need a baseline Spider-Man we need this guy who like in the comics is doing his own thing who is has his own problems but then gets pulled into these big multiversal events I don't think Spider-Man works as well when he's just at the center of these multiversal events he should be an ordinary guy who is always in over his head when this sort of thing happens and their insistence on making him like the Superman the Marquee

star of the franchise I doesn't think jive with who this character is on the page I got other points but I want to give you a chance to reut because I will go all day on this those are those are all solid points but we have plenty of time to do that movie I I feel like and not to retread what I've already said but I feel like it's kind of you know a a downward trajectory just to throw it right back up into Multiverse I mean we know we're going into doomday Secret Wars I

if we you know stop and do this small Spider-Man story which I would like to see I I'd like to see you know a Spiderman Trilogy that's you know small stories I feel like if we throw Spider-Man right back into space or into the void maybe that kind of takes away from what we're doing there but I I do to your point I I like your point that in the comics we see him do his street level thing he'll go you know team up with the Avengers or the X-Men then he goes right back to

doing his thing so I I I do take that point but my biggest question Ryan is don't you want to see Andrew and Toby back I mean no I don't care I've seen it they did it it was great I would like to see them back in their own movies but I don't need to see them interacting with Tom Holland again I I'll just go back and watch that that weird movie they made with Applause brakes built into it for no reason right I I how I on I feel like no way home barely scratched

the surface especially with it being made uh during the uh pandemic I I you know I have my complaints with that movie I I think a really cool story to tell where they can actually Market that these three Spider-Man are together um this is the time in history that we can actually do this I I don't know that you can do it 15 years from now I I say do it now the the movie was great I I want to see a sequel to no way home with my three Spider-Man if you want to see

that sequel I think that is the that is Avengers doomsday or Avengers Secret Wars that's the place to bring all these characters together and I'm saying this because you said we we have time now and you rais a good point like Toby Maguire ain't getting any younger you know what I mean he's pretty much if that he's gonna have to become father to MayDay Parker at some point if they want to keep him in in the in the tights and in the comic that's like an alternate universe he loses a leg and it doesn't matter

point is we're also running out of time for Tom Holland to be in these stories right now this guy maybe he'll keep signing on for these right maybe he won't there's a very you know we we there were these rumors Sydney Sweeney was going to play the Black Cat Windows closing on that because she's off doing her own things and producing her own movies there's always going to be a time limit on stuff Charlie Cox is Daredevil God only knows how much longer we'll have that and I just want to say if you go back

right if you go back through like the animals of Spider-Man stories they haven't done there are so many great characters they haven't adapted in the MCU we haven't we got the Scorpion setup no scorpion it seems like a lot of like like a lot of other things that are getting set up in these movies that get abandoned so they can do has something to do with Spider-Man I think right son's doing a piss poor job of actually delivering on this great Rogues Gallery not to get too far off topic but man Spider-Man 4 or five

should be about Spider-Man fighting Craven and I think instead what Sony has done is they have said let's take our villains and instead of having them in Spider-Man movies we'll put them in their own movies and then Spider-Man I think they're trying to maximize their IP hence well if Marvel gets to make Spider-Man movies let's do all the Spider-Man in that movie instead of having him face actual super villains and another great story they've never done with him is facing the Kingpin there's a gang war story line from Amazing Spider-Man from the 80s it's great

they should adapt it and that's what I want to see Tommy what we're at each other's throats what do you think well I mean first of all it's an honor to be your judge jury and shre executioner here uh death by donke now uh yeah I think you know I as much as you're both a little bit right you're both mostly wrong uh I I I see I I agree I don't need to see Toby and Andrew and and Tom together on screen again I I think that there needs to there needs to be uh

those characters need to be in their own Marvel movies like they need they need to be sprinkled throughout Spider-Man uh we need to get back to a Spiderman like you said I really do actually Ryan actually agree with you Spider-Man needs to go One V one what what with that's what we do when you agree that's the tradition I've just laid down right now I uh uh I I I I don't understand Sony to me seems to do this is doing the like spaghetti to Against The Wall method of like we're going to throw everything

against the wall hopefully some things stick and even the things that stick we're going to ignore the fact that they're on the wall I'll L scorpion right like it's like we're teased scorpion we're introduced to the character and then where is he right now he's he's hanging out I also the one of the my favorite things about Spider-Man is he's a New Yorker we need to get him he needs to remain in New York for a little while it fix New York that's part of the thing I we we're they're investing so heavily in Daredevil

and Kingpin it almost seems to me foolish to not have Vincent Deon offo and Tom Holland not come to blows at some point however undeniably Spider-Man is I would say by far the most popular character that Marvel has and they Co and Disney Marvel co-owns or or doesn't even co-own leases the right to have him through Marvel Studios and they do that by this like strange arrangement of like we'll actually make good movies for you guys as long as we can use your characters then you guys go make all the crappy movies that you want

or at least mediocre movies I happen to be a Venom fan myself and I'm bullish on Craven no matter what I think the fact that uh Craven is now including moneymore scenes with Rhino is gonna be a good thing for the movie and I think that like it's one of those rare cases where the delays in patients are going to pay off for it however it's too much it's too like this Cosmic like un multiversal Spider-Man thing is making it really impossible for it to for there to be a linear Spider-Man kind of story throughout

this giant Cinematic Universe it's like Spider-Man is kind of this catchall super magnet for like we can make these giant basic like they're just trying to make every Spider-Man movie now an Avengers level movie and I don't think it needs that I think right now Spider-Man is being used by Marvel Studios they're borrowing him from Sony or you know getting the right St from Sony but they're using him on this giant Avengers level scale for every movie and we're losing the Peter Parker that goes home to New York and is kind of a street level

Savior for the city it's I understand when he's in high school sending him away but now that he's you know an adult and has basically no one left he needs to start creating a community and a family out of saving the people of New York yeah yeah there's also this thing with Spider-Man where when bullets fire at him he it we should feel like oh I hope that bullet doesn't hit him you know we don't have that now go ahead well I I completely agree with both of you I don't get me wrong I want

to see that Spider-Man too I I want to see the grounded Spider-Man story with you know the the struggles of Peter Parker him going up against his greatest foes I I don't want this this crap that Sony's putting out these villains that have something to do with Spider-Man I think I I don't want any of that I think that we are nearing a point H after Venom Last Dance after Craven I I think we're going to see and I think we're going to talk about this here in a little bit I think that Sony and

Marvel Studios are going to start working a lot more closely together with not only just Spider-Man but all of the Spider-Man characters and I think we're going to see that begin to happen in the Post Secret Wars era of the MCU I think that we are going to see you know we've talked about this a reboot in secret Wars an Inc Cannon reboot uh and I think that they're not going to touch the Multiverse anymore I think the Marvel universe is going to go like a little more grounded kind of back to phase one MCU

and I think that is the time when we'll get to see that Tom Holland Spider-Man trilogy that's a close to the ground intimate story I think that right now is the time if we're ever gonna get it Now's the Time to do a one more big adventure Spider-Man movie have that take us into doomsday into Secret Wars he's going to have his fight with Tony uh I I think we don't need to maybe completely abandon the the Iron Man Jr Spider-Man just yet I think that's Post Secret Wars I guess guess disagree though man I'm

so tired of Iron Man Jr Spider-Man yeah I guess if Marvel sorry if Marvel would have had the rights to Spider-Man from the beginning the MCU wouldn't exist because they just would have kept making Spider-Man movies he'd be the center of everything I really do think that having him again go into the Multiverse Saga it should feel like when he goes into this kind of thing like he should be like a little bit more of the experienced guy but he should feel a little bit in over his head by this Grand Cosmic stuff I'm sorry

Tommy I stepped all over you go ahead couldn't take what col was saying anymore no no problem at all he's enraging me as well and I if honestly if there was some way I could get in there I I would I would rough him up but uh I have to say I I don't know how you get more s meaningful and significant than that moment in endgame Peter Parker returns from being dusted and is reunited with Tony Stark all of this extra we want them to confront each other as doom and and Tom Holland's current

Peter Parker I don't have any desire I mean I guess I no that's not true all right I'm being a little flippant there as a nerd who loves this of course I'm gonna like it but I would almost prefer in that situation that it's a Tom Holland variant of Peter Parker and of Dr and of Robert Downey Jr variant of Tony Stark that is Dr Doom because it's like the the Tony Stark of 616 and the Spider-Man of 616 had closure albeit tragic closure you know Robert dowy Jr died for our sins so it's like

I I don't need any more of that and in fact it's like to me it kind of puts it's an exclamation point on the fatigue that you know some people in in a little bit of bad faith are are crying out for Marvel it's like let's get some new you know I I don't I just let's get some new if we're gonna go into the Fantastic let's bring some new characters in or you know the other characters that we've acquired now from Fox that we're going to get in I'm more excited about that I just

can't you can't get me too excited about Robert Donny Jr Tom Holland Marvel reunion after they had such a perfect ending there's my Counterpoint to that I I think we're all on the same page with the fact that we want to see that that Spider-Man Centric story we we do want to see Spider-Man get out from under the wing of the Iron Man Jr thing I think the perfect way to do that is to have him literally have to face the face of his mentor face Dr Doom in doomsday in secret Wars and I think

Dr Doom is going to be a version of course of Tony Stark that would be the perfect way for him to finally overcome uh his you know him being in that shadow and for him to truly truly truly Define himself as Spider-Man and then go into the the next era of the MCU post Multiverse Saga I think that's the time to do it and yeah am I being a little greedy here yeah I want to see Toby Andrew and Tom go on a fun multiversal adventure I I think that there is no other time to

do if they try to pull that post secret Wars I'm gonna be really mad like because that's not what I want to see for the future of Spider-Man that's why I'm so determined do it now get it out of your system have fun make your $2 billion doll and then yes I want that grounded Spider-Man story and I don't want that grounded grounded Spider-Man story to get upended by some big Cosmic Avengers movie that has to happen right in the middle of his Trilogy or something but that's just how it works though Ian these characters

are always off doing their own thing and then they get uprooted by Avengers movies Spider-Man should feel like he is us right he should always be that point of view character and you bring up the point that like that's the best way for him to overcome Tony Stark's Shadow is to actually face Tony Stark I hard disagree because nobody like he nobody in the universe thinks of him as Iron Man Jr because nobody knew who he was they don't remember his association with Iron Man right like that's all Ben rased he's got a clean slate

he might feel like he owes something to Tony Stark but I'm pretty sure he overcame that in far from home that's what far from home was about was him slowly breaking out of that mold I I think we're just ready for actual Spider-Man stories at this point like I don't think that anybody any fan actually thinks that right I would say no no no not at all I would say for me in terms of Spider-Man stories that are currently on the table to tell I'm most interested in a Tom Holland as the only Spider-Man in

the movie followed by an Andrew Garfield Standalone Spider-Man movie that takes place in a different Universe obviously and the least thing I'm excited about is old man Spider-Man you know Toby Maguire he's not old but you know I but you know for the purposes of the argument harsh super harsh I'm way more I'm way more interested in seeing if if Andrew Garfield is interested in returning to the character what that Spider-Man has learned because that's to me the most like tragic the the most like grounded tragic Spider-Man like you know the the tragedy of toy

McGuire and Spider-Man were told in that beautiful Sam Ry kind of like almost larger in life and Tom Holland Spider-Man has told him this new kind of glossy uh Marvel tragedy where it's like everything is is you know a tragedy happens with these characters seem to recover from it a little faster so I don't know I guess to me there's two movies that interest me it's Tom Holland returning to like you said returning to his world you know or his world in terms of you know the POV and just a story of that Peter Parker

and that Spider-Man and then uh and then being plucked out for Secret Wars and then of course I'm interest Ed in Andrew Garfield going back to his New York and and what does he do you know how does he recover as much as I would love an Amazing Spider-Man 3 with Garfield and especially a Ramy Spider-Man 4 with Maguire I think that Standalone Spider-Man movies with Toby and Andrew respectively I think that undermines Tom Spider-Man more than him sharing the screen with them where they're more so the the secondary characters and let him take the

lead I think giving them their own solo Spider-Man stories if we're talking about you know undermining Tom's time as the character where he's supposed to be in the spotlight I I think that would kind of do it more sounds to me like Tommy agrees with me though I mean you make it you make good points Colton and like if I could if I could look at this and say look no way home was done uh you you can even make the argument no way home was done for story reasons right the appearances of of the

two Peters helped out Tom Hall helped out Peter one and in that case it was a rare example of a Multiverse project that actually served character I have a hard time seeing how this movie serves character and furthers the character so Colton you're wrong you're just wrong sorry I get a little heated sometimes before we go I do want to talk about we got Venom four coming up but we have null right now null great comic book run by Donnie Cas and Ryan Stegman uh kind of redefined the Venom character gave him this like villain

that he always was for Spider-Man what do you guys think about what's coming up here with Venom like do you think after this Tom Hardy is really going to be done or do you think we can see him appear in Avengers Secret Wars or Doomsday I mean why get out now in that sweet sweet multiversal money is coming I don't I guess I mean to Tom Hardy to me is what one of the reasons I really love him as an actor is he Blends the line between someone who's like loves to act and loves to

do these like you know difficult characters but ain't afraid to step into a blockbuster you know he's not like well don't put me in a high budget movie I can't see I could see him being done with Venom stand Alone movies I don't see him being done with the character as long as Disney is open to it and Sony is open to it and Marvel is open to it so especially if a huge chunk of his time on set is in a voiceover Booth sorry colon go ahead well and if you watch interviews with Tom

Hardy he's very passionate about the Venom character but even going back to the first one he's always planned I think he's always wanted his Venom to share the screen with Spider-Man and I think kind of like reports with like Dakota Johnson with Madam Webb and all that you have these actors kind of getting around like thinking that they're in a proper like Marvel movie but really they're you know in the Sony movie I I wouldn't be surprised if Tom Hardy was kind of told yeah you're gonna have the the Venom versus Spider-Man movie and all

that and then that kind of didn't work out because Sony just throw they set it up very clearly at the end of Venom 2 look what they did it's so annoying because they really I they knew that they very likely probably weren't going to do it so it's so annoying but to to my point I I think Tom Hardy wants to share screen with Spider-Man so if if Kevin feige you know if they offer hey we want you to come do this zero percent chance that he turns that down no I I hope you're right

because his Venom um the more I read about the Venom character the more I understand he's not just Spider-Man's enemy he was a great Spider-Man enemy in the 90s he's evolved past that I would be up for this but I would like it if his character still through the Venom hive mind the symet hive mind if he still had this intrinsic hatred of Spider-Man because because he is such a great Spider-Man villain so I really hope they can revert back to that but then again guys look they're not going to be not going to stop

making these movies anytime soon and when after everything reboots and Avengers Secret Wars whole new ball game for reintroducing a lot of these characters especially if Marvel finds some way to get the rides back from Sony but we're going to save that for a later video Tommy beo Colton Ogburn thank you guys very much for joining me you can find their Social Links below and of course guys we want to find out what you think so let us know down in the comments or at me on Twitter and of course if it's your first time

here be sure to ring that Bell for alerts for screen Crush I'm Ryan ER [Music]