56. Jefferson Fisher - Becoming a Social Media Sensation

people will always follow you when you're being real versus who you're trying to be like that that authenticity will just shine and doesn't matter if you're awkward or you're shy or you fumble over your words great that's good that means you're a real person welcome to the tip the skills podcast where we discuss running and growing your Law Firm I'm your host Maria Monroy president and co-founder of lank we are live at lross outside in the middle of the comp today's guest Jefferson Fisher I am like a total fan of like I cannot believe that

I just got to interview him I'm super excited celebrities follow him if you don't follow him on Instagram or Tik Tok you are missing out his videos are super super helpful in terms of communicating we talked about a book he's writing we talked a lot about communication since that's what his videos are about and being authentic I really hope you guys enjoy this cuz I was really excited for it I didn't know that you you were the Jefferson that I follow on social media I'm that Jefferson well tell us your name and what you do

my name is Jefferson Fischer and I'm a trial attorney in Texas what kind of trial I do personal injury I didn't know that are you serious I'm dead serious oh my God this is so exciting so a few months ago my husband sent me this video and the video it was a view okay and it was something about when people apologize but they're not really apologizing so it was something like oh I'm sorry you feel that way oh yeah that was how to handle bad apologies and it was something like the response was don't apologize

for my feelings apologize for what you did you got it and I loved it and I was like who is this person like I just thought you were I knew you were a lawyer but I thought you were just you know some dude like a Tik Tok lawyer I don't know like I didn't know you did Pi yeah I do you have 2.8 million followers on Instagram that that is a correct statement yeah that's crazy it is absolutely insane are they real followers they are all real you didn't buy any of them no I didn't

I didn't pay for a thing give me a little bit of History I don't know anything about you same hi hi well I'm interviewing you so I was at a defense firm for like eight years and I made partner and about a year in I just was not I just wasn't happy and I didn't feel fulfilled at all on what I was doing I was doing Insurance offense which was great for getting trials had a lot of experience with trials and decided to start my own practice right about that time I started to kind of

dabble in social media it's very like emotionally stable well good you you know what I mean I do that's that's what I hope to give off but like it's more like a therapist like I feel like yeah it's kind of turned into that yeah so tell me like what was the evolution and how did you kind of blow up at the time video had just become a thing like Instagram before that you know it was like you take a picture of your coffee and put a filter on it like it was just pretty pictures and

then they started doing video I only had about 800 followers and they were all my friends from like law school and high school that was it yeah then I started getting more serious about okay what am I like who am I what what what message am I wanting to put out in the world why would anybody want to listen to a lawyer I mean just why why would they I love that who am I yeah and so I what I did was I made a huge mistake that ended up giving me all kinds of insight

and knowledge and that was I paid for somebody to make me a video on what to do after an accident like super super original right yeah nobody wants to watch that yeah and nobody wants to watch that nobody not even attorneys so I just paid money for nobody to see anything and then that's when I just got like what am I doing and so I stopped trying to find the perfect lights the perfect mic the perfect setup cuz I thought it just had to be perfect and instead instead it was really out of frustration like

you know what I'm just going to do this my way and what am I good at I I like talking about communication how can I help people with that and so I made how to argue like a lawyer part one in my car that was it really when I watch your videos it's more like in the again like a therapist like I'm like this is great information as to how to communicate and like how to have like I guess higher emotional intelligence I'm somebody that I think others would say does have high emotional intelligence that

has to do really with me separate from my Law Firm or being an attorney just my my upbringing how how I've always been and that translates and I think what makes my page different and why it has had the success that it's had is I don't try and push out that I'm an attorney I make videos on how to communicate from how to deal with bad apologies to handle interruptions to have emotional intelligence to boost your sest how to find confidence in in your communication and do it in a really authentic way that's genuine to

to you and I found that I do well at taking very complex hard ideas and bringing them down to something super simple and I try to put it in a pile of three or just just to say it that's immediately actionable because so many people like in communication will say well you need to be a better active listener you need to connect with the other person what what does that what does that mean what does that mean well I think it's just it's a bunch of fluff for saying you need to create a deeper beneath

the surface way to talk to somebody understanding that argument is really a window into somebody else's struggle all these things though did you learn them in law school no well I I I knew the answer yeah yeah definitely not law school I wish they I wish they taught that kind of stuff but so how did you learn all this a lot of it has to do with my my upbringing I'm a fifth generation attorney I love that so we my husband is like an 11th or some some crazy it's as far back as we go

well yeah for us it's because his family's from Chile oh awesome um but he doesn't practice okay but he went to law school very cool I would get picked up from school and then get sat in the corner and to be quiet while my dad finishes the deposition have I just I I've always been around that type of conversation my dad's extremely diplomatic my mom's extremely kind and they uh they did that and so my my parents are the type that when I was a kid you know they would pray that God would give me

wisdom and always be my friend like that was the nightly prayer every night and I believe that's that's come true where a lot of wisdom that I have I've passed down from from my family which has been wonderful and a lot of it's just the natural I I like to communicate I like to talk to people and try to understand them and read rooms and so what this means for your audience is you can take anything unrelated to what you do is practice it didn't have to be communication that's just Happ to be mine I

like communication but you can talk really about anything so if you liked coffee if you liked I don't know you you you find you like arranging flowers you whatever you as a person forget what you do for a living what do you like as a person do that and talk about that and let the law and let the law be second because th% the authenticity will be there people will always follow you when you're being real versus who you're trying to be like that that authenticity will just shine and doesn't matter if you're awkward or

you're shy or you fumble over your words great that's good that means you're a real person and I just don't think people especially after covid they don't they don't want the Polish that's why you saw so many accounts do so well in covid because they're at home their hair is messed up they're still in their PJs and they're like oh I am too and you you find ways to relate to people on a just a human human basis how many how many videos now take off where the woman is doing their makeup you know as

they're yeah because everybody's doing it it just you you find different ways to be real our mind was communication but if I wanted to and let's say I was have a friend who's very OCD about coffee like he's had to bruise coffee beans how to steep it everything let's say that was my thing I could have done the same thing I'd still grow the audience because I'd be doing that first and forward and you're going to find a community there they'll find that you're an attorney and that's and that's that's what it's about anyway what

you're trying to just sell yourself that you're always I I can handle your legal case they will know that they will find you and how has your um knowledge in communication helped you as a lawyer it it helps me dial it down when I was on the defense side I I became a plan of best friend because I wasn't a jerk I was somebody who shared information I was I was transparent about what I could and couldn't do and it helped resolve cases much much quicker I think this age of it's kind of I would

say an old school mentality of like I'm G to beat you no I'm going to beat you like this just battle of ego of who's gonna beat the other person in the case so much yeah yeah I just my communication helps me not only with my clients helps me with juries and so what I did was I took a lot of the same Concepts that I teach my clients because it's a weird profession it really is like you're hiring me to handle your beef with somebody else like I got to go fight with somebody I

don't have a problem with and what makes it worse is they do the same thing and so I'm now battling with another person who's been hired like I'm once removed and their their whole job is to make me lose that's it and so when I put a client in for deposition or for trial I'm just putting them up for to for battle I mean for an argument to get tested to get put in a really difficult position and so what I did was begin to share some of that communication tips that I teach my clients

and just put it on the phone you seem like a kind person well thank you I try to be you can thank my mama for that yeah I could see how that would help you even like just dealing with the with the post and counsel right because you disarm them exactly so I had uh funny story I don't know I don't know why people say it's funny story it's not that funny but the he you need to do a video on that right right he said he found out that I was on a case and

he called me he's like man this is why I was on the fence said man I did not want to you know draw you on this case and I was like what's up he goes you're just you're too nice you're too nice he's like you know I can't because he and I have had a trial before and his it was a criticism of like I can't I never got did something that allowed him to get aggressive or be ugly or start to push which he likes to do that's his personality and so by disarming him

he was never able like to get ground on the case for people to PL of fraternities want to kind of get the the jury in an emotional position that they are feeling the same feelings as your client but if you're always disarming that way it was it was hard for them right and also if their strategy is that like aggressive strategy and now they have like they feel like they have this connection with you their strategy is not going to work right and I've done for example I uh one of my early cases on plane

of side adjuster I was dealing with the adjuster a pretty substantial case and I called him and he just sounded frazzled I was like what's what's going on man he's up in New York what's happened he goes well I just found out my my dad died you know I'm deal I was said man what are you doing talk on the phone with me I was like just go just know just go and so I we got off that call and I immediately wrote a letter to him found his address to to his office everything handwritten

letter yeah just like you know I'm so sorry for what what what you're going through I can't I can't imagine it just know that that um I'm certainly feeling for you and and wish you and your family the best when I say that he called me back of just full of gratitude we settled that case like the next day I'm not saying that's why I did it saying that we never had a word of animosity between us there wasn't anything bad typically Planet attorneys are just we get we just want to have that kind of

you know it you've seen it it's the ego of how how big can I puff up my chest and instead when I just recognized him as a real human that that made all the made all the difference also makes a big difference to the jury when I'm when I'm talking to them why do you think that people are so afraid to take this approach and to be themselves and to be vulnerable well we often don't like ourselves oh wow you know yeah yeah but hey you knew when you brought me on yes this where it

go but yeah no we can go deep you you have to like you have to love yourself if you don't or or at least be okay with it but where does that come from if somebody doesn't love themselves which that must suck cuz like you have to spend all day with yourself every day so but where does I have to assume that comes from childhood yeah well that's the nature versus nurture kind of aspect I think that when you deal with childhood you maybe you grew up in a house where everybody your parents argueing in

front of you and that's okay and maybe I grew up in a place where my parents did not argue in front of the kids it was not okay to argue in front of the kids see yeah I mean I can already do you have kids I do I have two how old five and three okay I have an 11 n and almost six okay but I can already like tell when I meet someone like you that you probably had like very conscious parents extremely yeah yeah and I feel like I already mine up no you

haven't now trust me in some ways I have no well I all parents do you know in some in some way yeah and I'll I'll tell you one piece of I only share this because I say it to myself and I it helps me is that once you have kids you now exist as their memory like everything you do everything I do who I meet who I put myself out as what I I now just exist as to serve as their memory that's that's really it and I think when I when I put it in

that perspective it makes me very much more conscious of what I say in front of them how I respond or react to some of them but when you ask me where does this kind of come from yeah my parents were very intentional uh on it and I'm very thankful to that I also have just kind of a old soul personality like I was always the dad of my friend group you know what I mean uh and so that's just kind of how I've it's what I like I love I'm I'm a big brother I'm the

oldest of four I love being the big brother I've always loved being the big brother and so that's really cute oh I love it I love my siblings and in many ways I was more of the dad than my dad even my dad's fantastic I'm just saying we had that kind of relationship where my sister could do something and she's like H mom's being so crazy you know uh and I look at her be like Sarah like you're no you're actually out of line she go okay like you're the voice of re right right like

she wouldn't believe my dad but if I said something they okay I guess it's it's true it's just like a sibling thing and then how does this translate into the way that you are a leader and the culture at your firm I tried to make sure that at the very beginning I set the values of my firm right up from the beginning and so those values would always reflect me and and my my personality just the brand like the color the text all all of that I was super super into that I I um majored

in marketing so yeah yeah yeah so I I'm a big guy on font and brand like I'll buy stuff just because I think that somebody's like brand and marketing is cool but yeah so in terms of those core values so feed is sheep which is a it's a Christian based value of just you you just take care of people for the right reasons um no matter where they are and Walk of Life you're going to meet them where you are um where they are and and and be there so that means no matter what it

doesn't matter if it makes us money or not are we taking care of people first and foremost and then because when you do that everything else will take care of itself I I have a wonderful group of attorneys around me so I am the type that I want to surround myself with people who are better than me and I think for the most part I I have that the firm is is doing fantastic for for the fact that it's only been like a year and a half yeah you said you have 11 attorneys M how

many staff 12 I think now 12 plus 11 attorneys yeah wow congrats that's a really how have you handled that level of growth I just hang on yeah did you implement like a ton of processes and like go through all that yeah so we have really good systems in place I and I think the benefit is I grew that from the very day we started where do you guys practice so in Southeast Texas so but is it just Texas or are you any yeah just Texas just Texas I just started I know I'm just curious

but I'm I assume you're generating cases from all over because of soci that's correct and how are you handling that uh hanging on and you're just like referring them out I would assume yeah so ones that ones that um are not pre-lit are not suitable for pre-lit I do for um refer those out otherwise I just handle them in house I have about six million followers and that's crazy it's wild right and I get DMS constantly constantly and I know generally about how many followers I gain like per minute that's crazy how many yeah typically

in a given minute it's about 1,200 what and how many are you losing uh on a in a day I might lose about a thousand followers a day but I'm gaining I'm gaining 10 to 12 that's nuts so yeah it's weird but so that's but it also depends on Instagram Tik Tok Facebook why um was there a video that put you on the map no there was about four of them like it was were they I don't remember it was back in February of this year so I I didn't even have 300 followers 300,000 followers

until like let's say February then I had like four videos that I had posted two weeks prior just started to go nuts and they all started feeding off each other each getting five six million views and then it was just then it was just all floodgates how did that feel overwhel com I had my first panic attack really yeah yeah the night that my followers I was gaining over 100,000 followers a day and So within a week I'd gain a million and that's crazy thank you but it was it oh yeah thank you it huge

huge blessing but I didn't know what to do with it I was like I just I'm just a guy talking in my car what why I didn't expect all of this it's not why I got into it I think people are really hungry for this information yeah I know I am yeah well thank you it turns out that there are which is wonderful because it feels good to have something that you you genely like to talk about and that you can genuinely share from a good place and and for the right reasons and I never

in a million years thought my social media would do this it's not like I'm not one of these I think you can tell I'm not one of these legal Bros that's like man I'm going to put out this video and come sign up with me and get these leads that to me that's not you're not building social for the right reason in my in my mind there's a reason why it's called social media not like cell media and so I find that that message resonates with people but at the beginning it was very over overwhelming

so I remember the night that my account hit a million I was like this is just nuts and then I started getting a bunch of celebrities and then wow that's really cool that was wild that must have been what like really yeah that night the rock followed me and I was like no that can't be right sure enough it was right and he at the time he he was only following like 300 people and he had 365 million followers and so once that happened then it took off even more and so you have these different

celebrities that start following or message or say hey I love your stuff or they start sharing my stuff uh then you just go like I don't know what world this is last last week it was Jennifer Gardner follow loves and sent all shared some my stuff week before that um it was uh the one from Kristen Bell it's very weird to watch movies or see stuff and go hey that person commented on my thing yesterday it's just was it's weird I'm telling you the video that that's like the video I always remember you bu because

it's something I think about a lot yeah because how many times has someone said to me I'm sorry you feel that way yeah and it's like you don't know what to say yeah you don't know what to say and I've actually used it my husband and I have used it on each other even though he sent me the video Yeah well it fixes it pretty quick yeah and I'm like you know no a and I even teach it to my kids I mean I I use the same advice in my own life I mean I

I I I'm nowhere near the perfect husband perfect communicator but I I I use the same stuff but I think it's just a gift that I'm able to come up with I get questions all the time what do you say to this or how would you handle this and whatever I say it's seems to resonate with um people which is super super cool it's just very I think also contrasting for people because you don't expect an attorney to be talking about this kind of stuff but I think that's also some of the interest like we

like contrasting words most books that sell really well are contrasting words interesting I didn't know that I I think that is what fascinated me about it because when my husband sent me the video I was like he's a lawyer yeah this is and I'm in this space so like I know how lawyers communicate right right so I was like funny this is interesting it has been quite the ride and I'm just thankful to people that follow me that I mean that's that's all there is to I'm just extremely extremely thankful well I think that's the

key to life though yeah a lot of gratitude lot of humility it's been it's been a lot of fun it's very odd to say like I could take a picture of this Yeti my stories get roughly about 250,000 views and that's just in in a story and so you go it makes you real hesitant about what you post right it can get in your head yeah because so many people are going to see it and it almost feels like you're responsible now I feel very much a responsibility to teach people help people I also have

a very high duty of what am I what am I choosing to share with them because I get get every day I'm getting multiple and multiple like very kind sweet stories of people that I help them in this situation with I help them reconnect with their spouse uh uh a grandchild they haven't spoken to in forever or they use this tip in X Y and Z and it's just like that's like that's what I'm that's that's what we're here for for forget the law firm that's great and when you first started doing the these videos

like did you ever imagine that the would happen like what was the point of the videos what were you hoping to achieve there wasn't a point other than this is what I like to talk about so I'm going to talk about it and if it helps people great but that was it are you writing a book yeah oh my God I'm so excited for you yeah yeah so I I am going to read it thank you thank you you do I was writing my own book I was going to self-publish and then I got hit

up by different agencies and one of them is a big one and they're like no no no no you we need to you need to just stop and think for a second so I got with them and through a whole big auction bidding process I I have a a major book deal book deal with penguin random house it's the same group that that wrote um that published Atomic habits I love that by James so I have the same I'm rereading it right now I have the same editor that's oh dude that's amazing congrats yeah thank

you very much so it's that's crazy super hum have you read uh the book oh of course yeah yeah it's like it's like changing it's wonderful we'll publish that beginning I think right after election season I feel like your videos are somewhat in the real realm of like self-help they're definitely in the realm of selfhelp and I've been obsessed with self-help since I was 18 like before it was even cool and my friends were like we'd go to Barnes & Noble and I'd go to the self it was called self-help at that time right and

they would be like you're weird like what why are you buying this yeah like it was just not cool like now it's totally cool right there's certain things in life that kind of become fads for a little bit the word narcissist didn't exist you know 5 years ago you know what I mean and now that's people that's are very quick to call somebody that without really knowing that it's a it's an actual diagnosis right or even just being like Oh well they have narcissistic Tendencies right have you done videos on this oh yeah let's let's

talk about yeah yeah so the last video I did on how to talk to a narcissist yeah I think it's at like 13 million views that was about three how you talk to a narcissist there's a a lot that goes into to it but when you talk to a narcissist uh you're kind of in in two separate zones you're in a a praise zone or a provoke zone so they they Delight in your frustration as much as they Delight in your FRA in your praise so meaning somebody has narcissistic personality they they want to hear

that they're the best they need to hear that they have to hear that you can't just say something good about say somebody because they'll put them down to make themselves sound better whatever ever that is they also provoke meaning they will aggravate you so that you will come back on them because they they enjoy that control so they have they'll control in the amount of Praise that they're receiving they will also control you in the amount of emotions that they they are pushing onto you but the what I say in my video is it's a

just it's a rigged carnival game it looks like you can reason with this person it looks like you can tell them do you understand what you're even saying right now how do you see how what you did hurt me they're they're never going to come to your your side of the Court you need to say things in in in a way that peique their interest to flip the script to make them look better because they they'll do really anything to make the reputation look better but you don't want to be in a place where you're

trying to fix them because that's that's not really it's not how that works wait so I want to ask you for some advice so I'm really good with setting boundaries like I've always been really really good since I was very young good for you yes however that also translated into me feeling like I always have to like have that fight like I I I don't know if that makes any sense but like you said fight what do you mean by fight or like always like speak up even when maybe I just don't really have to

and I can just like not have that argument like I always feel like I have to set the boundary even though there are times that I can just like look the other way and move on with my life and not have that argument perhaps you have a tendency to take things very personally number one how personally you take things is a reflection of how much grace you're giving other people other words if you're always choosing that what they've done or what they said is for you you're always picking it up like you're you're always carrying

well it could be but then then yeah then then that boundary can be set up but you don't you don't have to attend every argument you're invited to that and that's my problem and I've gone a lot better at it it's well then that just means you have a very busy schedule of of of going to arguments you know I mean it's you don't you don't when people say I just have to say something no you don't you don't you you really don't have to say anything what you're saying is really for yourself rather than

for the other person so I I find that we have a tendency I do too of you you feel like what somebody has said is meant for you even when often times what they're saying is more of a sign of their vulnerability or their insecurity and you're choosing to take it personally rather than being curious about why they're saying what they're saying I find that just the question of how was your day or have you been having a good week bad week if when I ask questions on context tells me a lot more than me

engaging directly in the conversation itself the person I see is not the person I'm generally talking to now you and I just talking right here but you could have had a hectic morning let's say we're in Miami and you had a busy morning with the husband and the kids and you're flustered and so you and I are talking to each other and something happens and you go off the handle now I could choose to take that personally and start barking back at you or I could take that moment to pause and say where's this coming

from and I think that's that allows you to have a lot more connection with the other person or relate to them and remind yourself that both of you um are humans so you could either be like in baseball where you you you take a swing at every single pitch or you just let it go by what you'll find is when you don't swing at the bad pitches your life's going to be a lot better just talking about like that concept of being authentic and it sounds so like cheesy and like overplayed to some extent but

you can tell even I think subconsciously whether somebody's being genuine or not like are they being themselves or not well if you think too of some of the most followed accounts in social media they're not the prettiest people they're not the most well organized they're not the like prime example of a human they're just relatable they have their hair in a messy bun they don't have makeup it's a guy who's hasn't even combed his hair talking about kids pickup like just just they're just being real because most of the time when you're when you're on

social media you're probably using the bathroom you know what I mean like I mean you you you want people who look and feel and smell like you I think it's tough because of people are so afraid of like the criticism and I feel like if you're not being criticized then you're doing something wrong like you're not being yourself because you're never going to be for everybody like ever like some people must watch your videos and it's just not for them they're like uh like the stupid like and that's okay that's that's their loss in my

opinion that's you know well thank you yeah I thankfully I have not had I really can count on maybe one hand I've had a slightly rude comment that's it that's it no one's trolling you nobody's ever trolled me that's that's a yeah that's what I'm saying yeah it's very the one time somebody made a somewhat rude comment my followers just Dogg the guy I mean just like oh it was something about me being an attorney uh which I understand dumbest advice he'd ever heard or something like that it it was definitely like a troll comment

just to spark man the followers just it was like 50 comments in a second just like just trying to attack this dude I just deleted it all so besides the book what's next for you uh talk on podcast there's been talk on uh docu series uh for Netflix there's been talk on yeah there's been talk on blown up weird yeah talk on like uh talk show there's been all kinds of secret stuff but yeah very very bizarre so while you're running a law firm while running a law firm and and most importantly being a dad

well I'm excited to follow your journey thanks I'm glad glad that glad to have you with me yeah and I appreciate you jumping on you didn't even know me and you agreed to do this yeah so I appreciate well Bob Bob said you're good people so I was like oh I'd like to than absolutely no yeah I'm just happy to I'm just happy to be here weather is beautiful well thanks for having me thank you thank you to everything that Jefferson shared with us today if you found this story valuable please share it with someone

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