Simon Sinek Masterclass: The Key Steps To Finding Your Purpose

I didn't want to wake up and do it anymore I just was I was done and the feelings got darker and darker and darker it wasn't until a very dear friend of mine came to me and said there's something wrong there's something different and all of that energy that went into lying hiding and faking every day I now had new energy Renewed Energy to actually find a solution this week on high performance author and inspirational speaker Simon cnic I told the story to the head of sort of talent for BBC sport cuz I wanted to

be a sports presenter and it she said to me these are the exact words BBC Sports don't employ people like you but now I'm like why have I done it okay but very very few of us can clearly articulate why we do what we do I don't mean to make money I mean what's your purpose what's your cause what's your belief why did you get out of bed this morning I have a vision of a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired but I don't think you can be

high performance by yourself I don't think it exists they're either not as high performing as they think they are or they are high performing but at tremendous cost so if we turn the lens onto yourself how did you come to discover your why then it's really hard when your friends say to you there's something wrong and you go no everything's fine and then they let it go the friends who truly truly truly love you are the ones who will lean into that tension and go I got you I love you you're safe hey it's Jake

here um I just wanted to drop in first of all to say thank you to all of the new subscribers here on high performance but also to let you know that we have launched the high performance app to get you closer to your own version of high performance you can hear episodes before anyone else you can listen totally add free and you can also get exclusive content that you will not hear anywhere else all you need to do is hit the link in the description for this video and you can download the high performance app

enjoy Simon welcome to the show thanks for having me we're very excited about this conversation the first question for you is how would you define high performance um I think high performance is more of a feeling than an accomplishment right um I think high performance is being in flow um when I feel like I'm performing well I'm actually having fun um you know no matter how difficult the work is no matter how stressed I am um even if I work late at the end of whatever I'm doing that day I'll walk go that was fun

um and so for me high performance is probably this intersection where you like the thing that you're enjoying and the thing that and you're being productive sort of collide um yeah I think it's more of a feeling than it is a a calculation so what are the things that get you there um well as I said you know fun is a big part of it for me and and the way that I I make sure that it is fun is that there's a context for everything um so I'm very very Purpose Driven cause driven um

I have a vision of a a world um that does not yet exist a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired feel safe wherever they are and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do and as long as whatever I'm doing is moving towards that and I don't even care what it is um uh no m whatever I'm doing is working towards that and I can I can either feel or measure that I'm working towards that then I will much more easily find myself in that state

so for examp ex if I know something doesn't so let me give you an example like if some company calls me and says we'll offer you a ton of money to come and speak to our top 30 salespeople at a company that I don't really respect that their culture is something that I wouldn't write about but they just offer me a ton of money you know to go do it I I will turn it down because the feeling of being there will feel like work whereas when I get offered to go somewhere where pays a

lot less but what they tell me that the company does or the way that they lead their people I find interesting I find inspiring I actually want to learn from them and then showing up with them and the conversations I have with them and the the feeling that I get that I'm contributing to whatever it is they're doing that that brings me tremendous uh joy and flow so it's it's really about having a filter and using it I think a lot of people talk about cause and purpose but they use it as a punchline you

know it's copy on a we on a website um and and if if you're too metrics driven you'll um it'll it's much harder to get that feeling um because um metrics don't produce that feeling ever I wonder though whether those sort of three key principles of how you would love to see the world whether you could get there even quicker if you went into these businesses that didn't understand the way you think or didn't have these values and almost open their eyes to what what they could be oh yeah make no mistake I don't just

preach to the converted yeah I mean my team knows I call it Belly of the Beast which is I will say yes to things where I know that they don't um you know I'll go into a a big bank that I think has done damage and I will I will show up as a preacher for sure but then I have to have scale right so the example I gave was 30 of our top salespeople I'm not moving any needles that day right but if you say it's the top 30 CEOs from the biggest you know

whatever venture capitalist firms and Banks whatever oh yeah yeah I'm going to do that but I'm coming with a different agenda you know I'm coming there to preach so I've worked with many dysfunctional broken companies the difference is is there's at least a few people a few Executives who know that change has to happen and they welcome my message when when I go in there in other words there's hope I'm I'm not going to go preach to a brick wall you know there's literally no point there has to be at least somebody in there who

who who who has interest um which is a pretty easy thing to gauge there's that famous saying then that all progress depends upon the unreasonable man so when you go into these environments where you where you're preaching these messages how do you cope with the idea that sometimes it isn't what they want to here well I I don't think they're going to invite me you know I mean those who those who know my if they're inviting me somebody has at least told them that this is going to happen and it's happened a few times where

they didn't do their homework you know maybe they just you know somebody said you should get get this guy and they did and I remember there was a company a bunch of years ago and I'll leave out the names to protect the to protect the guilty um but the CFO came he was I was in waiting in the green room waiting to go out and he came into the agreement and he said listen I have a favor to ask you know don't talk about layoffs I said why not he goes well we're planning on having

around in a couple of weeks and I don't want you to talk about that that's bad for business I said but it is bad for business it's bad for a corporate culture he goes yeah know but don't talk about it I said well I'm not going to not talk about it like I'm not going to I won't bring it up I'm not going to be spiteful and I'm not going to stab you with it but if it comes up I'm going to talk about it he goes no no I know but I'd really appreciate it

if you didn't talk about I'm like yeah I'm not going to make that promise so that has happened a couple of times but again I think most people I've got enough work out there that if I'm they know that I'll always speak my mind and if they're afraid of that I did have somebody cancel on me once there a Big Brand who I had a meeting with the the senior Executives before I went to visit them and um we had a very honest conversation they Uninvited me because the reason because the reason I asked the

question s is that please name them yeah the reason I ask you is because there will be people that are almost advocates for your message that are in those organizations that want to get the message across so sometimes you can be the messenger that deliver is it to a certain level of leadership yes so I suppose my question is more aimed at what advice or tips or techniques could you offer for those people that are in the belly of the Beast that are trying to make it happen yeah without having the platform that you do

so um one of the mistakes that people make and and by the way folks in my position as well make this mistake the well-intended Insiders who want to affect change um they they come guns of Blazing you know they get the chance to talk to the executive and it starts off with sometimes the words but at least the mentality of let me tell you what's wrong or let me tell you how to fix this thing and um uh and nobody wants to hear that like can you imagine if I sat down and said can I

just tell you how to make your podcast better can I just spend 10 minutes and like tell you what's wrong with your podcast I mean I I haven't even said anything already you're shutting down right right you're like no don't tell us that right um but if I talk about vision and I talk about where I want to go um and I talk about the world that I imagine I think a lot of it is language and uh it has to start with curiosity you know um can I talk to you about some of the

things that you're imagining for this company you know what do you envision for this company and if somebody shows curiosity for the ideas of somebody else then and only then are they open to your ideas um only if you show interest and give somebody if if you make somebody else feel seen and heard and understood then they want to return the favor by making you feel seen and heard understood so very often I don't actually think it's the point of view I think it's the way in which we present the point of view to those

in power almost always I saw it play out recently in front of in front of me very senior executive went up to his bus and basically said let me tell you what's broken and what's wrong and I saw his bus just shut down um as opposed to going up to be like hey you how are you it's been a stressful few weeks I just want to check in and see that you're okay you know so it's it's and I pride myself and I think that was the coup of start with why to be honest I'm

not the first person to talk about purpose at work but back when I started talking about the why if you talked about purpose at work you were some weirdo hippie you know and so talking about purpose at work you're literally only preaching to the converted this very small group of people who believed in it and the coup of start with why um was the language which is I found a a neutral language that made those who needed to hear the message hear the message it also was new language that those that were struggling to tell

their bosses now had new language and I got that in the early days I start with why the number of people who came up to me and said thank you you've given me language that have that is helping me tell them the thing I've been trying to tell them for years so the once again it goes back to to language so let's talk about why then yeah it's the global best seller many many copies around the world have been and continue to be and will continue to be sold but I'm also sure there might be

a few people listening to this that are thinking hang on a minute what start with why what's that about or even people who maybe have heard of the book or might have read some other book but would' love to hear more from you about it so could you explain the concept of start with why for the uninitiated so very simply um every single one of us knows what we do the products we sell the services we offer the jobs we perform um some of us know how we do what we do the things that we

think make us stand out or distinguish us from others who do similar things to us but very very few of us can clearly articulate why we do what we do I don't mean to make money um I mean what's your purpose what's your cause what's your belief why did you get out of bed this morning why does your organization exist and why should anybody care and what I learned is that the great leaders the most inspiring leaders everybody from uh mahut mandhi Martin Luther King Steve Jobs you know all these great leaders um these inspiring

leaders every single one of them thinks acts and communicates the exact same way and it's the complete opposite to the rest of us where we start telling people what we do they start telling you what they believe and what they do simply serves as tangible proof of what they believe and the magical thing about this little idea is it's not my opinion it's based on the biology of how the human brain makes decisions go on tell us more about that um so the human brain brain the the there's a part of the brain called the

neocortex which is our homo sapian brain it's the newest part of our brain it's responsible for all of our rational thought and language it's just not responsible for decisions this is where the what exists right it's very rational easy to see tangible the lyic part of our brain is responsible for all of our feelings like trust and loyalty this is where gut decisions come from it's also responsible for all of our Behavior but it has no capacity for language which is why it's hard to put feelings into words this is why we use analogies and

metaphors all the time um and so when we start with why you're actually talking to the decision-making part of the brain that's why it feels inspiring um uh this is why you light up or get goosebumps when you hear those kinds of messages or you feel like somebody's talking directly to you um as opposed to describing a product which you can understand and it's all very rational um and most people lead with the rational they're trying to make a tangible or or rational case why you should or shouldn't do something or buy or not buy

something the great leaders Inspire us to buy and again it's just the biology so I love that point you make about how like the neutrality of a language it's there's a phrase that I heard an educationist talk about the language that is psychologically privileged that you can get ideas in so if there's somebody listening to this that maybe wants to start exploring their why what's the kind of language or the questions that they should be an they should be asking that sort of open up these kind of conversations for themselves to learn their own well

first for themselves but also well let's talk about for themselves initially and then maybe talk about how they can do it with teams that they're part of sure so um to do it for someone's for yourself to learn your own why um first of all understand that a why is basically an origin story it's where you come from we are the products of our upbringing you know the experiences you had growing up make you who you are make me who I am your why is fully formed by your mid to 18 teens and it doesn't

change for the rest of your life you have only one why you are who you are now whether you're living in balance with that is a different conversation whether you're making the decisions that are are of high uh uh High authenticity and that's all that authenticity means authenticity means the things that I say and the things that I do reflect who I actually am that's all it means um that's a different conversation um and so when you know your why the ability to make those choices becomes a lot easier you know we've all had the

feeling of flow and things like this except it's a little bit like a roulette game like sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't it's like I've done the same thing a thousand times how come it doesn't feel good anymore um so here's a fun way you can learn your why uh it's called a friends exercise go and find do this with a best friend you know do not do this with a spouse do not do this with a sibling do not do this with a parent it doesn't work best friend um somebody who loves you

who will be there for you they'll pick up the phone at 3:00 in the morning and you would do the same for them and ask them the simple question why are we friends and they're going to look at you like you're nuts because the PO of the brain that controls that deep feeling of love and Trust doesn't control language it's a difficult question to answer and so they'll say I don't know of course they know they just don't have the words for it and so you actually stop asking the question why and you ask the

question what what specifically is it about me come on what specifically is it about me that I know that you would be there for me no matter what and they'll hem and they'll ha and they'll struggle and you can't help them and you can't let anybody else help them you have to let them go through the process and they'll start describing you I don't know you're smart you're loyal I trust you and you play Devil's Advocate good that's the definition of a friend you have that with lots of people what specifically is it about me

that I know you would be there for me no matter what and again they'll go through a few rounds of complaining and describing you and eventually they'll quit and they'll start describing themselves and this is what my friends said to me they said I don't know Simon all I know is that I can sit in a room with you I don't even have to talk to you and I feel inspired and I got goosebumps in fact I'm getting them right now it happens every time uh because what they did is they put the value that

I have in the world into words and I had the emotional response and that's what will happen somebody will say something that you will get goosebumps or you'll well up or something will happen and that's that that's when you know you you're hit you've hit it because the thing that you give to the world that you should be working to give to the world consistently is the reason those people love you it's the reason why you're not friends with everyone um and if you do this with multiple friends the amazing thing is they will say

very similar if not the exact same thing because that's the thing you give to the world that is your why it is the reason you get out of bed in the morning um it's a really fun exercise um with teams it's slightly different um but even for companies a why still an origin story you know where the company came from the founder story is is the why of the organization um for teams it's a little different um um in those cases you want to tell specific stories that reflect why we love coming to work every

day right and by the way you asked before like how do I communicate my white to other people um just remember I'm not smarter I've just been doing this a lot longer so I'm practiced which is why I can sort of sort of wax off wax on about a about a vision or something like that just cuz i' I've it's taken me many many iterations to get it right the easiest way to do it is um is to Simply say to somebody let me tell you why I love working here not like love you know

like is rational I like my job I like the people I get paid well I like my job love is emotional it's like you know you know the question is like do you love your wife yes I like her a lot you know it's it's it's a different standard right right love is a higher standard so when you talk about what you love it's it's profoundly different I'll give you a silly example actually one that comes from the book which I haven't thought about in quite a long time um trying to communicate your ideas to

someone whether it's selling a product selling yourself in an interview or just in a meeting with people just you want to you want people to quote unquote buy your ideas right um is the same as dating I mean think about it you sit across a table from somebody and you hope to make the sale you hope to make the deal right that's what you want so let's make a dating analogy let's take um let's call him Brian right and we send Brian out on a date um and he sits down at the table with this

girl that he was set up with and this is how he starts the date he goes um I'm incredibly Rich um I'm I'm very successful um I'm on TV a lot which is is great because uh I'm quite good-look I know a lot of famous people um and I have a beautiful house you should come by sometime now the question is how well did that date go instinctively we all know that was crap right but think about how people sell their ideas or how companies sell themselves it's like we're very very successful company um you

may have seen our advertising on on TV we're very we're very good at what we do we have beautiful offices you should come by and see them sometime well if we know the date was crap why would we think that that would work any better the answer is it doesn't right um now let's said send Brian back out again um and this time we'll arm him with his why and we'll say he doesn't know his why but he can answer specific questions about love right he can give specific examples so he sits down again and

he says you know I absolutely love my work um just the other day just just 3 days ago um one of my team members was struggling and I just I had the opportunity to like I was walking down the hall and I was I was late for a meeting but I thought you know what this is more important to me and I sat down with them and like helped them figure out a problem and then then I just went to my meeting and showed up late and when I explained why I was late everybody said

yeah yeah yeah of course you did the right thing and I got to tell you it is the most magical thing in the world to come to work every day in a place where I get to do that and it's so appreciated and the best thing about it was I made a lot of money because of it and I got to meet a lot of famous people I get to go on TV all the time which is really great CU I'm good-looking and and I got I got to buy a beautiful house you should come

buy some time like all the same rational stuff is there but how different did that feel yeah right and so now the rational stuff is the proof but it's not the reason to buy so if you can tell a specific story of what you love and it's a high bar you have to love it um it's a way to attract people who love the same thing and the best thing about it is it's a filter cuz there are some people listening to that story and think that's cheesy we're not going to do well together in

business so it's a fantastic filter that it attracts the right people and it repels the wrong people brilliant I've got a lot of things running through my head right the biggest one is this this fear that I'm not sure I'm going to be able to find my why now at this point in the conversation Simon offered to help me find my why here's a small example of what we discussed you had that experience of sitting in the back of the car your mom probably trying to keep your dad awake you know was there something in

particular about this one or is that just one you found to try and capture the general the general memory um I think it was because my parents were really busy so my dad used my dad was a charity worker but also was doing a degree while we were kids my mom was a full-time teacher MH so there wasn't loads of like we weren't a family that did loads of stuff actually mom and dad were like they worked basically and then the weekends were a list of jobs Saturday and Sunday and they're still like that even

now in their 70s they just have you go in the house they have a list of jobs all the time MH and I think it was just like that was gone and it was just we were just together at those moments so that's why that stands out far more than being at home really like I wouldn't really pick up on anything so it's the the the joy of going on the adventure with the family yeah or maybe two people who are more adult than you yeah yeah kind of like the Formula 1 example yes right

so those stories are very very similar which is wasn't you standing by yourself in the pit Lane right it was you said it was these two people that you're standing with you know a race car driver and a and a multi-millionaire team owner you know kind of like Mom and Dad you know a charity worker and a teacher who are highly qualified people but in that moment you're just a family and you're a part of that family and you may be the youngest least qualified person but you're still a part of the family yeah and

uh th those two are exactly the same story that incredible sense of like oh my God like this is it I love this I'm in the car with them you know this is this is it and everybody's relaxed and we're enjoying ourselves and I'm I'm a part of this you know and they see me as equal yeah yeah you know they didn't look down on me and you said I feel like I've arrived you feel like I'm here but it was also that they treated you that way yeah you know and so your why is

very much your why is is very much about um um feeling a part of the family feeling a part of the team um and I would venture to say that you're at your happiest when you are working with people in common cause to do something together and where you struggle is when you're asked to do things alone and to hear that in full download the high performance app for free right now and you can hear the full conversation as Simon guided me through finding my own why right back to the conversation so if we turn

the lens onto yourself M how did you come to discover your why then so I um it was I reached a point in my career where I had fallen out of love with my work um superficially my my life was good you know I owned my own business we had amazing clients we did amazing work doing what what was I had a marketing consultancy yeah um in New York and uh I didn't want to wake up and do it anymore I just was I was done and was that a sudden realization I were daing one

I mean you know these things always feel sudden but they've been you know it's a slow boiling frog Until you realize the water's boiling um so the answer is who knows it it showed up you know like how long does it take to feel depressed I you know I don't know um and I was deeply embarrassed feeling bad because I shouldn't look look what I'm doing look at the things I'm getting to do like I shouldn't be you know depressed or you know not want to go to work and so I kept all those negative

feelings to myself which really is stupid um and the feelings got darker and darker and darker and they feed on each they feed on themselves and that's the problem with keeping negative feelings to yourself they they fester and grow and it got to the point where I was in really a dark place but all of my energy went into pretending that I was happier more in control and more successful than I really felt so nobody knew um and uh it wasn't until a very dear friend of mine came to me and said there's something wrong

there something different I don't know what it is but something's off and I for whatever reason I I opened up and came clean and it was cathartic you know it was a weight lifted off my shoulders and all of that energy that went into lying hiding and faking every day I now had new energy Renewed Energy to actually find a solution um uh I'll spare you the long drawn out story but I had already articulated this idea of the why in The Golden Circle to explain why some marketing worked and some marketing didn't and it

was the discovery of the human brain the lyic brain and the neocortex um uh which I learned at a dinner party I was sitting next to somebody who their dad was a neuroscientist I mean it was just like polite conversation and like Bells started going off and I realized it didn't explain why marketing worked it it explained why people do what they do and I realized this was my problem I knew what I did I knew how I did it but I couldn't tell you why that's what I needed to find and I couldn't do

it for myself and so I brought in an outsider who had objectivity and took me through some sort of version of his his process and mine um that really helped but the more important thing was I figured out how to help my friends find their why sure and that's what I started doing I started helping my friends find their why but there's an element of your story there and thank you for sharing it that I think takes courage to do that whether it was that friend of yours that has just spotted that something is off

with you to ask you that the courage to open up and be honest and be vulnerable with them is something that I think doesn't get referred to enough thank you but I disagree because I think my friend had the courage not me you know um I think it's really hard when your friends say to you there's something wrong and you go no everything's fine and then they let it go or they're not even willing to say something's off they just kind of it's too uncomfortable you know we don't like discomfort discomfort we certainly don't like

causing discomfort and we certainly don't want to create tension or a fight and so we just leave it and I think the courageous friends the friends who truly truly truly love you are the ones who will lean into that tension and go I don't care what you say and I know you're lying to me I love you to death and I know something's wrong and I'm going to keep asking you until you tell me you know and more importantly whatever it is I got you I love you you're safe I don't know what it is

and I don't care what it is just know that I'm your partner and you are never alone and the friend who helped me that became the way we said I love you to each other um we used to say you're never alone because that's how it all started you know she said to me you're not alone here um so I think the she had the courage to get me to open up and then I just stepped into the the safe space so if we accept that kurage was present for sure there for sure what I

just won't take the credit no and that's very Noble of you but I think the reason I'm asking that is because for anyone listening to this Simon I I'm interested in you articulating what are the benefits have been prepared to ask these questions that are often un that go unanswered yeah I mean you know human beings are despite our own self opinions we're not that strong and we're not that smart but in teams and groups we're amazing and so trying to solve your own life problems by yourself I've got a I've got some really bad

news you can't which is why addiction exists because I can't solve these problems myself I can't overcome the stress myself so I'm going to drink you know or I'm going to do something else that's harmful to myself my family and my relationships as all addictions are whether you're addicted to your cell phone addicted to alcohol addicted to drugs you're going to destroy your Rel relationships you're going to destroy yourself um and there is tremendous value and it does take courage you're right for somebody who loves you to say I got you I'm here let's do

this together or for you to call a friend and say I I think I'm struggling and and I think I can't do this alone can you help me it's humiliating but it is perhaps the single greatest lesson any human being can learn which is to say I don't know and I need help um and if you can learn that um and you can do it in the worst of times you can do it all the time you can do it with silly things um and I for me I mean I mean for those who know

my work you know I regularly call myself an idiot you know um and I do think of myself as an idiot because I have no problem saying I don't know can somebody who know who's smarter than me explain this to me I I'm under no false illusion that I have to present myself as this hardest person in the room cuz I'm not you know and where I'm good I might know a sliver of something but my goodness everything else we're talking about I know nothing um and um and I think being comfortable with asking for

help and saying I don't know um turns out we're surrounded by people who want to take care of us and help us but they don't because they didn't think we needed it because we were too busy presenting ourselves as perfect and having all the answers so they just didn't but they would if we just asked um and you know I have I have a small group of friends where you know we we have a deal and you know I have a couple of friends that are super senior super high performing um by all traditional definitions

and I remember the first time one of us called the other and said I'm stuck which is really difficult to do because you want to look smart and strong to people who you respect and they're so smart and strong um and I have one of my dearest friends he's in the military he's a he's a senior officer in the US Air Force it's active duty still and uh um I remember the first time he called me brother which in the military is a big deal you know you and I have colleagues and co-workers they have

brothers and sisters um and so they call each other brother and they call each other sister and it's an amazing thing um and I remember the first time he said all right brother I'll talk to you later or hey brother and I was like like that means the relationship was different now you know and he's a warrior I mean he's a he's a he's he's hardcore he's an amazing human being and when we get off the phone he'll say I love you you know or he'll text me and say I miss you not just miss

you I miss you which is way more vulnerable you know and it's deeply human and he and I are you know we call each other and say I'm struggling or I'm stuck and sometimes it's business I just need your opinion but sometimes it's personal sometimes frustration you know can I talk to you I'm so freaking frustrated um but to have to Foster those relationships those relationships take a lot of work to get to they don't just show up and they do require risk you know at some point you open up a little bit but to

have those kinds of friendships I think are absolutely essential to being what we would call a high performance human being I don't think you can be high performance by yourself I don't think it exists and anybody who does is they're either not as high performing as they think they are or they are high performing but at tremendous cost um they're lonely they need pills to start the day um they have other issues they'll have health issues later in life I think if you want to if you to be quote unquote High performing by yourself it

comes at a cost that I think is not worth it and can I just applaud that message because I think particularly for young people now listening to podcasts logging onto social media sites Instagram all these other things we seem to Lord the self-made success story and everybody wants to tell us they did it on their own I think it's so good to hear this yeah I I heard this amazing uh story from Steven Spielberg where he said uh that he hears his name he gets thank yous like people thank him from the stage when they're

receiving an Oscar that he actually doesn't know and has never helped but the people who he's actually helped don't thank him because there's this fear that if I thank Steven Spielberg for helping me that somehow it devalues the fact that I earned an Oscar which of course is nonsense it doesn't yeah but there's this deep seated insecurity that I can't thank anybody or say that I got any help that I'm the I'm the look how how great I am and the reality is is not a single person in the world made it without advice from

someone a favor from someone a door open from someone advice from someone um a shoulder to cry on from someone someone to vent to the end of difficult day anybody maybe neg like even I don't know people that cause problems in your life bullies at school like they're all collaborators they all collabor because they've built your resilience your understanding of human nature like nothing's a solo journey in this world and to thank people who really did thank you is I think humble yeah right and anybody who presents themselves like they're the lone wolf that triumphed

and won these Awards and achieve this wealth and power and fortune or whatever it is the joke is we know you're lying if you're a human being I know you're a liar right so why not just come clean and I'll actually think really highly of you there'll be people listening to this now that think man this guy's got it together he understands himself he understands the world he understands business understands leadership when you found your why yeah does it take away the doubt and the fear and the the bad days and the insecurities no of

course not um it helps me understand the times when things went well why they went well it helps me understand the times that things went badly why they went badly and it helps me make choices so that I put myself in a position of strength more often than not right so for example I am I hate the conversation about strengths and weaknesses what are your strengths what are your weaknesses I think it's a stupid conversation because everything requires context right you don't have strengths or weaknesses you have characteristics and attributes and in the right contexts

those things are strengths and in the wrong context the wrong environments those things are weaknesses always right so it's better to know who you are and then look for the environments in which those things will be advantages so for example if somebody came to me and said Simon your work's amazing um we're going to offer you10 million to do whatever work for us and we're going to lock you in a room by yourself for 3 weeks and and let you get at it right now superficially most people be like amazing but I know that if

I say yes to that deal one of two things is absolutely going to happen one I suck at working by myself right I know this this is an attribute I may I like being on a team it is an attribute not a strength not a weak and it's an attribute so if you make me by myself one of two things is absolutely going to happen the quality will suck so I'll give you work and they go wait no we didn't pay for this right or the stress that it's going to take me to get some

sort of decent product will be Absolut it'll destroy my health and and everything right it the stress is just tremendous so when I get offered you know if anybody's listening I I would accept this offer but the you know uh if anybody ever came to me with that offer I would say thank you you but I would like a team of people please that I get to choose and you can lock the team in the room for 3 weeks and we'll come up with the product because now I'm taking my attribute and I'm putting myself

in a position of strength and so one of the things that when I learn my why and I learn my house it helped me better navigate and create the environments that make it that make me more likely to be in a position of strength than not that's all it is and if I couldn't make it work at least I went in with eyes wide open going this is going to suck but at least I'm going to do it for a short period of time and I think the cost is worth it right um cuz I

always weigh the cost of everything the everything comes at a cost there's a there's a cost for the money you make there's a cost for your career there's a cost for your relationships and that there's nothing wrong with that just like there's a cost to buy a cup of coffee right the question is was the cost worth it yeah y you know was this coffee worth5 right if the answer's yes spend it if the answer's no find somewhere else to spend it or look for something cheaper and so I always weigh the cost and say

is it worth the cost and if the answer's yes I'll do it if the answer is no I'll I'll work very hard not to I mean this is fascinating because we've done over 200 of these interviews Simon where we often come back to the teaching of Howard Gardner the educational psychologist that has that great line of don't ask people how clever they are instead ask them how are they clever and a really good example of that was when we interviewed Joe Malone she she's a perfum and she spoke about how in the school environment she

came from a broken home so she was working extra jobs over evening and weekends she was dyslexic it hadn't been diagnosed so in the school environment when she was yawning because she'd been working the night before she was diagnosed as being lazy when she couldn't understand the work she was diagnosed as being stupid and she said it was when she took herself outside of that environment did she realize she had this amazing ability to take ingredients and create beautiful smells so we see in this pattern remarkably frequently amongst our high performers that you're describing I'm

interested in how again our listeners could could identify their characteristics and their attributes so that they can put themselves in environments where they Thrive um I mean you have to be honest with yourself as as one which is you know you don't have to beat yourself up but you don't have to rationalize and make sure that everything's good which is most people have some sense of self-awareness you know you know do you work better by yourself or on a team you can answer that one you know do you work better under stress or do you

need like time you know are you the kind of person who you know you get good grades but you need to study a lot or your grades are fine but you didn't study that much like I always believe grades should be ratios you know it's like the the the grade achieved over number of hours studied right you know okay so if you need a first and you're willing to give someone 50 hours that's your person but if you're willing to sacrif quality a little bit but you need it done in an hour I got somebody

else for you over here not better or worse different right and I think what we have done is we falsely assume assumed that high levels of achievement is the most important so if you get the top grades it means you're the smartest in the room but again not if it took you 50 hours and I need somebody who can work Under Pressure yeah right so most of us kind of know that like how do you learn can you skip class and just do all the reading and do well on the test or do you have

to go to class because you have to hear it like are you an oral learner or are you a visual learner you know um how do you take notes you know all of these I think anybody who's a little bit introspective can figure out where they did well like I I cannot go and I'm I have ADHD So reading is pointless to me right right in one year and out the other and just like it's literally pointless and so I still have to pass school and so I'm a great believer that the solutions we find

to the struggles we have as children become our strengths as adults so I'm at school with ADHD I can't read I mean I can physically read I just don't comprehend and had it been diagnosed no no no I didn't get diagnosed until an adult and so many similar things you know hyperactive kid who was accused of being selfish or or didn't care about people because I was absent-minded I forgot a lot of things that I was supposed to remember um and if if you believe a lot of that stuff it'll destroy your selfworth um and

there were definitely moments where that happened you know I'm like oh my God I'm a selfish horrible human being you know um um but uh but thank goodness it wasn't diagnosed because even though there were difficulties that came with it and there was definitely struggle um I the the hacks that I figured out because I had to pass school was I had to go to class couldn't skip class I needed really good teachers who were good at explaining things I couldn't have them teach from a book because I cuz I had to enjoy myself in

class um I uh had to go after class and talk to the teacher because the conversation helped me learn and then I did fine you know and so I got really good at asking questions I got really good at listening well look what I do for a living right um so all of those skills were formed and so why am I good at connecting patterns like I did with you and a you know with just a couple of examples well that comes from my childhood cuz I had to pass the test so I needed to

get as much information from as as short a period of time as I could because I got to figure this stuff out like doesn't make me smarter it just means I figured out a life hack and I think you know in this modern day and age we're so afraid of our kids being in positions of discomfort that we're removing all the struggle you know we're putting them on big pillows and saying let me make this as easy as possible for you now of course every parent wants to make life easy but if you talk to

the quote unquote High performing people in the world I mean there's that very famous story about Richard Branson you know where his mom would drop him off 3 miles from home and say see you at home and he'd have to figure out fig how to get home and she would always tell the funny story how this whatever it was you know half an hour 20-minute walk would take him 3 hours cuz he kept stopping to like look at all the flowers and look at all the bugs and and now you understand a guy with a

tremendous ability to solve problems and with insatiable curiosity well duh you know like go look at how he was raised um and um and you talked about it in the bully at school like you know adversity is is the best teacher in the world um and if we over coddle and oversimplify and and and and um then we're not allowing people to learn who they are what they're made of and I'm not just talking grit that's too obvious I'm literally mean like the thing that makes you you yeah and every single one of us you

talk to anybody who's what we you know the world would consider High performing um assuming that they're healthy you know um they they all overcame something every one of them you know Elon Musk was horribly bullied you know um there's lots and lots of stories of ADHD and dyslexia and you know tons of those in the entrepreneurial World especially we've had many on this podcast you know people who've suffered huge physical yeah injuries or childhood traumas and this sort of sense of you know post-traumatic growth yeah is very common in the conversations that we have

and again that's perspective right yeah um everyone will go through stress everyone will go through trauma 100% um and Trauma will have side effects um but it'll also you know I believe the world is balanced I believe the world is always balanced yes there are costs but there's also benefits and so if you go through trauma yes there will be costs and there's also benefits you know go back and look at Co and say and you know when people talk about lockdown and oh this is what happened and how awful it was and this is

what now ask yourself and what was good and I bet you can come up with an equal number cuz it's always balanced yeah the question is are you looking for it and you know I guess maybe because of you know just natural disposition or just learned who knows but I my natural disposition is to is to look for the benefits I acknowledge the costs I look for the benefits can we please talk about leadership you reeled off a few names y about half an hour ago why why were those names in your mind why are

those considered good leaders by you um all of them um outlived their own lives um um meaning that we've forgotten a lot of the people who may have accomplished great things along the way but for some reason we remember them and they weren't the only ones doing it the only ones leading their organizations or their movements they certainly weren't the first but there was something about them that sort of inspired people to believe in something bigger than themselves I mean when Steve Jobs dies here's a multi-billionaire who lives a lifestyle that none of us can

relate to and we laid flowers at an Apple shop after he died what right that's ridiculous but the only reason we did that is because for some reason we connected with what he stood for he made us he made a certain group of people feel seen andard in a way that others didn't and his the fact that he ran a tech company that was what he did but why he did it was something quite different there's a reason why young people and creative people were attracted to that because he was he was a rebel he

was an iconic class he stood against the status quo you know he and Steve wnc um and that's what creative people and young people like to do yeah you know it's not an accident um so yeah all of them outlived their uh you know sort of lived lives that that that lived on Beyond them yeah so how how can we and by the way by the way just as an as side every one of us has a a deceased grandparent a friend who has past who we continue to invoke their names to this day yeah

and so you don't have to have led a big company or a social movement to have had an impact on people's lives where they will literally tell your story and carry your name for the rest of your life you know my grandfather was extremely important to me um and you know his name shows up in funny places you know I use his name as passwords and you know things like that so why was he so significant for them so he he was uh he was he was completely unique I mean he was a complete Weirdo

And he sort of very few people got him but I saw a sight of him and he he sort of opened up to me in a way that he didn't open up to other people and he basically showed me that you have permission to be your own weirdo self even if other people won't get you how did he do that he he just didn't give a what people thought about him he just cared zero you know I remember I was a little kid and there was a politician on TV saying something or other and my

grandfather just sort of we were watching the news you know and my grandfather goes I'm not voting for him and I said you don't like his policies and my grandfather says I don't like his hair I said you can't not vote for somebody because you don't like their hair and he said I cannot vote for somebody for any reason I want and I was like yeah I guess and he just he just did his own thing and you know he didn't he wasn't the most some people loved him and some people didn't and he definitely

drove my grandmother nuts but he just did it his way do you care what people think of you I care so I made a deal with myself a long time ago that um if somebody doesn't like me because basically if you want to achieve anything in this world you have to get used to the idea that not everybody's going to like you like you just have to get used to that and if you want everybody to like you and that's inconsistent with making an impact of any sort sorts it just doesn't work that way um

but I made a deal with myself that if people didn't like me because they disagreed with me I was okay with that and if people didn't like me because they were intimidated by something I said or did or I was okay with that but if somebody that I respected didn't like me I have a problem and that I have to take accountability for and I'm doing something wrong and that's sort of the deal I made with myself and so that that that goes to this day you know like so if I go I have friends

who won't read the reviews of their book I won't read and I always I go read them cuz I find it cuz if they're helpful I want to know so if there's a critical review that explains in a really neat nicely organized way that where one of the things I wrote faltered didn't work I actually like yeah that's a good point that's a good point they're making I'll I'll take that one you know whereas somebody just calls me an idiot or an Neanderthal like somebody literally called Meander I'm like what am I that's like what

am I supposed to do with that like this is the worst book I've ever read I'm like okay compared to what like I don't know that's not helpful to me give me something helpful you know um so bad reviews or bad criticism like again it's if it's helpful I really welcome it but if you're just throwing stones I don't I actually don't know what to do with it yeah so tell us the best piece of feedback you've had then if we talk about you as a writer so we get specific because your work is inv

voked um and and will outlive you yeah you know like the impact is significant across across the uh the globe so I'm interested how did you get there and what was a kind of what was the best piece of feedback that's allowed you to be able to write so succinctly and powerfully so when I wrote my first book nobody thought I could write including me the longest thing I'd ever wrote prior was like 15 20 Pages you know paper for school that is brilliant for people to hear though because I think people see someone like

you and think I must have been incredible from the age of 11 writing all sorts of amazing things like the so powerful no I think like if I'm really honest with myself probably the longest thing I wrote was 10 pages cuz if it was 30 it was probably shite so where did the courage come from then to even begin or to think I'm going to write a book it's not really courage it's it's it's I had this idea and a friend of mine said you should really write this down and I was like okay you

know and somebody made an introduction um to uh and again when I say somebody it's not cuz I was well connected it's because I believed in starting with why and I was really good at it and I believed in the law of diffusion of in Innovations which is I only talked to early adopters and so the right people always made introductions for me I was dogged about only talking to early adopters so I basically the my blueprint for actually how my career went and how I built start with Y is written in start with Y

like that is literally what I did and I didn't have advertising or PR firms I didn't game the algorithms I didn't drive any numbers on I didn't have friends write fake reviews like none of did none of that all the tricks of the trade I didn't do any of them um I followed that book is my blueprint I just wrote what I did um and so somebody introduced me um to one of the great business Publishers you know um and I had a 29 minute meeting with him and he 3 days later they offered me

a book deal he just took a risk on me um again starting with why you connect with the right people for some reason they take risks yeah they don't know why either you know um um and then they uh told me I should get a writer and so my agent at the time introduced me to a guy he knew and said this is the perfect writer for you and I went out to Portland to meet him and I brought the contract and these contracts always say you know whatever the numbers are 25% up front 25%

upon delivery whatever they are you know 50% up front whatever it is and the way that really works in practice is you sign the paper and like freaking 3 months later they sent you a check right yeah and I and I went you know I'm I'm a I'm I'm a nobody I got no following I got no nothing but I'm I I it said upon signing 50% so I we signed the contract ceremonially at his house in Portland this was going about a weekend to work together and I handed him a check for the first

for the first half and the first thing we did was get in his car and drive to the bank to cash it which was a little weird you know and then he kept trying to challenge my ideas and change my ideas and I was like oh my God this guy wants to write write his own book not help me write my book and he was very difficult and sort of kept shooting down my ideas and remember when I wrote start with Y I'd already been out there talking about it for two and a half years

like I like I knew my stuff and uh I went back to my hotel room that night and I'm like this is not going to work and I called him up and I fired him I said listen hey I think I don't think you and I are good connection and he started screaming and yelling at me I will mention that before I called him I called the bank and stop the check of course and I told him that I said just so you know I've stopped the check you know and he started screaming yelling me

and threatening to sue me and all of this stuff and the good news is all contracts if you haven't done anything there's no damage done I haven't I'm not in breach because he hasn't he hasn't done anything yet you know all contracts have a little cooling off period and uh and so I said I explained to him I'm like you know you're threat a the way you're responding you just made life a lot easier for me uh you've reinforced my decision if you were a gentleman about it I'd really start questioning if I've made the

right choice here so thank you for that yeah um and I moved on and of course he didn't sue me um but now the problem was I had a book to write and so it's kind of amazing what a deadline will do when a company gives you a ton of money and says you owe us and um I started writing but I started writing the way I speak and so the book is very conversational it's very easy book to read yeah um I don't use big words because then I I don't I'm not trying to

make myself look or sound smart I'm really just trying to and because I have ADHD I don't like reading books and I actually don't read a lot of everybody thinks I'm really well read and I like to joke that I've actually written more books than I've read which is true um and so the great thing about being the writer is if I'm reading my own work and I'm bored out of my skull I just cross it out and so if you notice in those books they're pretty short sections and they're pretty Punchy and there's a

lot of stories because I had to enjoy reading it too so I wrote a book that I enjoyed reading for somebody with ADHD um so there's no simple answer to your question but I didn't try and write to a standard of other people yeah I tried to write a book that I wanted to read and it turns out it's a really nice simple sweet little book which is what I like but then as you've gone on and and and done your other successful books you must have had feedback that then PE like people then well

it's all say into it that failure is often born an Oran but success has got many fathers so lots of people then must want to offer an Insight or a comment or a critique I don't show my work to anybody except about one person who's uh so my friend Jen halum uh she's been with me for years um I I I did have somebody help me write and research named named Lori Flynn for start with Y um and she was in New York Times cuz I realized I didn't want to write her I needed a

journalist cuz I needed help with the research and she would write a couple of the sections like as a journalist then I would go right at as but I wrote 80% of start with why I wrote 90% of leaders Z at last and I wrote 100% of uh of infinite game um uh but Jen um was with me uh for the for leaders e last an infinite game and she's I've just known her for years she doesn't work for the publisher she actually is not an editor by trade she just happens to be a brilliant

brilliant editor and one of a and my dear friend and she just calls all the time on stuff I'm writing and says it doesn't make sense she's the only person I trust um so I do I don't do any of my stuff alone ever um but I work with the people that I want to work with and it's usually one person I don't give my manuscript to 10 people and say what do you think um so tell us about Jen then in terms of because that really intrigues me that relationship of like you spoke about

that small word with big implications of trust yeah what what one piece of feedback has she offered you some and way you've gone wow that's a Insight oh that's incredibly valuable she you know Jen has a a mind like I've it's the most incredible mind it's really funny because I think it's okay if I say this you know she is diagnosed with OCD not like oh I'm obsessive like no no she's diagnosed like she has OCD she takes her meds you know I have ADHD I sometimes take my meds you know and we are total

opposite you know like the things that relax her freak me out and the things that relax me freak her out it's kind of really funny um uh and she is fastidious for logic and I'm really good at the big big ideas and so she will track the logic of an idea from the beginning to the middle to the end of the book where by the end I've forgotten what it says at the beginning um and so her ability to keep track of everything and make sure that I haven't abandoned the logic from beginning to end

is I couldn't do that without her uh cuz I can't remember 250 Pages she can it freaks me out she sounds very useful because she brings that incredible skill to your writing yeah but how do you choose the people around you like how do you choose the people that you let in because you will live a life you're very well known there will be many people who want to be I'll be friends with Simon I can talk about my why every day I imagine that's very attractive to a lot of people so how do you

choose the people in your circle I mean I don't think I don't think it's particularly unique and I don't think it's any different than anybody else like how do you choose your friends how do you choose your friends like I like I make friends like anybody else you like I meet somebody sometimes you're in to them sometimes you meet them somewhere you get along you have a nice conversation you sort of like each other you go out once you like each other again or you don't and you never talk to each other again you know

you both let your guards down a little bit you bothen up a little bit you realize you've got a lot of you shared values I mean my friends are the same as everybody else's friends you know um there's no I don't think there's I mean one of the things that I do notice about people you know um who sort of had some sort of Commercial Success especially the ones who had it young is their guards go up because they live lives I mean I had an experience where somebody gave me incredibly bad advice that hurt

me and it was somebody in the Inner Circle uh who I work with a work colleague who gave me incredibly bad advice that turned out was advice that was serving them but not me and it was self-serving advice they gave me and it was very costly for me it was very hurtful and painful and I called up my I called up a friend of mine who's been in the public eye since like 20 years old he's like six now you know um and I said how do I deal with this like how do you deal

with it he's like yeah he says you're a product now like get used to it this is like it never goes away like you're going to live a life where you're not 100% sure and it's like I understand why celebrities marry celebrities you know I kind of get it yeah um um because when you start to meet people and I've gotten burned that's by the way one of the things that where leaders last come from came from which is yeah you know everybody knows this when you achieve any kind of Commercial Success whatsoever all your

jokes are funnier and you're much better looking right it's just what happens yeah and if you believe it you're you're you're dead if you believe your own press and you believe what all the smoke that people blow you know up your ass then you're it's a short it's going to be a short existence yeah but if you I mean there's a story that I've told before that is that I live by it's a former under Secretary of Defense who is uh giving a speech at a big conference um thousand people or something and while he's

standing on the stage giving his prepared remarks he stops and interrupts himself and smiles and says you know last year I spoke at this exact same conference and last year I still the under secretary last year they flew me here business class there was somebody waiting for me at the airport to take me to the hotel somebody already checked me in when I got to the hotel I came down in the morning there was somebody else waiting in the lobby to take me in another car to this same venue they took me in the back

end entrance they took me into a green room and somebody offered me a cup of coffee in a beautiful ceramic cup he says this morning uh he says he I flew here coach this time he says I checked myself into the hotel uh this morning I came down and I took a taxi to the same venue I came in the front door I find my way backstage um and when I said to somebody do you have any coffee they pointed to the coffee machine in the corner and I poured myself a cup of coffee into

this here Styrofoam cup he says the ceramic cup was never meant for me it was meant for the position I held I deserve a styrofoam cup and I think every successful person on the planet um is given ceramic cups you know they hold doors open for you they give you perks they give you free products you know whatever it is then they tell you you're beautiful and they tell you you're funny and they tell you you're smart and you feel great and it's no problem enjoy it be grateful for it it's definitely fun it's definitely

surreal but they're not giving it to you they're giving it to the position that you're currently occupy they give in then the next person they'll give it to them and there's a guy I know who's a big CEO who retired recently and there's a big fancy party that was being thrown this a true story it was big fancy party and he was talking to front of his like hey did you get your invitation and the guy goes yeah he goes I didn't get mine he must have gotten lost he didn't realize that they were never

inviting him to the party all these years they were inviting the CEO of this company that happened to be him y he completely missed the plot and so like I said enjoy the perks but not me for you and I think the people that think that they deserve the ceramic cup they've missed they've missed the plot we all deserve styrofoam cups but is that when that happens in your life yeah does knowing your why become ever more important because it's something to keep you grounded and keep you coming back to there's a combination of things

I think definitely knowing your why is a part of it definitely surrounding yourself with people who call you who tell you you're an idiot is important you know my sister is the first person to be like Get over yourself you know yeah I mean you know I I can't get away with anything you know which is correct you know um she's known me her whole life um I'm older so I've got a couple years on her um uh but I think the other part is the way I view career which is and and this is

the importance of vision and and cause which is you know when I got started and I said wouldn't this be amazing if work worked like this you know and people are like I think you're completely unrealistic I'm like no no I think I have an idea idea and an idea is an iceberg beneath the ocean which is you're the only one who can see it that's literally what an idea or a vision is it's a figment of your imagination and if you do some work that brings that idea some tangibility some life I gave a

talk I wrote a book whatever it was I did some Consulting whatever it was just added a little bit of tangibility that's like a little bit of Iceberg popping up so that a few people be like oh I see what you're what you're talking about now and so throughout my whole career somebody be like hey nice job I'd be like tip of the iceberg and then my career progressed you know more did more things more Iceberg and people like ah it's amazing what you've achieved they're only looking above the ocean yeah I'm still looking beneath

the ocean and I would always go tip of the iceberg and to this day if you if you no matter what compliments you'll pay me I'll be grateful and I say thank you but what's going through my mind is tip of the iceberg and so I'm I'm I'm I I'm humbled by the tremendous amount of work that is still yet to be done and what what reminds me of you know what keeps me going is sort of like the the original founders of the women's suffrage movement in the United States every single one of them

had died of natural causes before the before the first woman voted right now I'm sure they would have loved to have lived to see a woman vote but I can guarantee you that they died proud and with smiles on their faces knowing that they built a momentum that other people could see what they imagined beneath the the ocean and would carry the torch without them and that's sort of what I live for I live for I live for the desire to spread a message in a way that I can die with confidence that other people

will carry the torch without me and you know I look at somebody like Oprah and I as remarkable as she is and she put her face on every cover of every magazine the magazine is named after her her her everything is named after her and she's on and if she dies it dies yeah I mean a remarkable human being who's done remarkable good in the world but it's yeah and I've worked very hard to make it not about me you know we changed our company from you know to the optimism company and you know we

remind our team that you know they're optimists that's what they are that we call our team optimists and like I I every year you know I don't think we're 100% there yet but every year the goal is that that if I were to get hit by a bus I can I can say with pride that the work will continue cuz it has to cuz it must because the is bigger than all of us it's um wouldn't say that's an OP an optimistic way to finish talking about getting hit by bus but I think it's it

is a brilliant optimistic but to know that the momentum will carry without me it's great I love that and it will um we could talk for hours would you come back sometime I'd be honored thank you it was really interesting before we let you go though we have a few quick far questions we'd like to run by you okay chocolate oh sorry you haven't started yet correct answer off you go uh the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you should buy into um uh Integrity uh uh honor not the same thing um

explain that one sorry say honor um so honor is a word that still exists in the military that seems to have fallen away in polite Society you know chivalry is gone you know there was a time where your word was it and you wouldn't violate your word because then if people knew that you violated your word no one would want to do business with you right like it really honor mattered I love that and I'll give you an example you know for me what honor has nothing to do with reliability or intelligence or even honesty

you can have people who are honest and reliable not and dishonorable they I mean honest and and reliable but dishonorable dishonor for me or honor is doing something that's dishonorable is um taking advantage of somebody else's bad situation for gain that's dishonorable and if you're willing to put aside your own interests ego ambition because somebody else is struggling then that's that to me is Honorable and this happens all the time like when a company is struggling that an employee walks into their bus and say I want my raise now like now that's when you're going

to ask because somebody told you you have leverage or you have the cards it's dishonorable I want the out I don't care how much more I'm going to have to suffer I want them out whereas if they knuckle down and help us get through the really really hard times and then come and say listen I was there with you through all the hard times i' I'd really think I'm I'd like a little more I'd be like yeah cool let's have that conversation but doing it when someone is struggling I think is dishonorable so for me

honor is a is really big so Integrity you know doing the right thing High ethical standards um honor and uh and I think willingness to take yourself on is the third one um it's very difficult being a human being you know cats don't have to work very hard to be cats but humans have to work very hard to be humans and the people who are on my team every new team member when they join our team I like how this was supposed to be quickfire um um every new member of our team gets a phone

call from me and says a you're a part of something bigger than yourself always remember that and B I have one expectation of you whether you stay with stay with this company for short-term or a longterm um I expect you to leave here a better version of yourself than when you started I expect you to take yourself on we'll give you some of that education and some of it I expect you to seek out by yourself but you got to take yourself on and I think that's a non-negotiable if you could go but one moment

in your life what would it be and why um I I it's it's a very difficult question because I think now is the best time to be um I'm grateful for all the experiences I had good and bad throughout my life but I don't really want to go and realive of any of them um so I I don't actually know how to answer the question if you could give one piece of advice to a young Simon what would you say um you don't have to know every answer and you don't have to pretend you do

I I wish I learned that lesson earlier I bet what's the most valuable piece of advice you've ever received um I mean the most valuable I I don't know but I can give you one or two very valuables um you know you know get over yourself you know when I'm complaining about something or and somebody leans over and just get over yourself like that's your sister yeah I I think that is and sometimes I'll catch myself doing it to myself like you know I'm whining about something I'm like Get over yourself you know I think

that's that's way up there um another one that I got that I live by I was young young young in a big company and the senior client came in and my job was I got to be in the senior meeting with all the senior people from my company and the senior people from the client and my job was to work the PowerPoint like that was my job and like I just had to make it go next but I worked on the account every day so sometimes they were talking about something and because I was in

the weeds and they weren't I would offer up some answers not because I was trying to impress anybody it's just cuz I actually knew what was going on and they didn't and at the end of the meeting this woman who's like my work Mom she was one of the senior partners of the company she put her arm around me as we walked out the door and she looked at me and she goes you know 3 quarters of an answer is better than an answer and a half and that is stuck with me to this day

like when I'm sitting in meetings and I could offer more and I I just don't 3/4 of an answer is better than an answer and a half love that for people listening to this who feel content and happy and okay and stable but they don't know their why yeah what would you say to them um well you could do the friends exercise which is really fun um and it's really fun way to do it and you know I I've tried to produce resources to help people in what suits them so the friends exercise is one

way you can do it um I wrote a book called find your why which if you want to go through a workbook we have ways to do it if you go to simon.com there's you can have one-on-one somebody help you you can take a course you can do with a group I've tried to do it in as many ways as possible because I want everybody to learn their why and so we've tried to do it as in all the different ways whatever works but yeah do one of them great yeah and the final question s

is what's your one Golden Rule for anyone seeking to live a high performance life um uh it's the golden rule is um it has to be for the benefit of others um um high performance for the benefit of yourself I don't really know what that means cuz at some point you know I want to make a million pounds on make 2 million pounds like you're going to keep just moving the goal lines and it'll feel like a a a treadmill at some point it's you're you're going to you're going to crash it's going to happen

um but when you live a high performance life for the benefit of others it's it's it's infinite you can do it forever and it's rewarding until the day you die Simon thank you so much for coming on high performance thanks so much for having me having me this is really really a wonderful conversation thank you it's been a privilege thank you thank you very much really enjoyed it really hey guys it's Jake kit listen before you go please do me just one favor hit subscribe it makes such a difference to us the more subscribers we

get then the bigger the channel becomes the bigger the channel becomes the bigger the names we can attract and the more imp we can have for you so thanks for watching and please subscribe right now