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Hello, everyone, welcome to another episode of pod people, a place where we meet to see and hear people People who Do People who happen, people who inspire our guest today needs no introduction journalist writer and now a true crimes column Ulisses campbel, how are you, my dear, good morning, thank you for the invitation, what a pleasure to have you here, what a pleasure, good evening, Alex, how are you, good evening, thank you very much for the invitation and we are opening the pod people on the road, live, live, live in São Paulo But who knows,

we might one day do Pará Fortaleza Santa Catarina, it's just starting, we'll see what happens, my dear first, I wanted to congratulate you on your column in the Globo newspaper, which is a Rio newspaper, right, it's true crimes. which I thought was a brilliant project, how did this come about, so I had already worked at Globo, I worked at Época magazine, I was reporting for Globo, and I had moved away from writing because of the books, you know, because the books took a lot of time, I ended up directing my work to a another place

and such, but then I made the profile on Instagram crimes of do per dis man, you have to bring this here, it was more or less like that, right? I even underestimated it a little because there on Instagram, things kind of sometimes stay there, we alternating with some humorous things and such, but then with the column, no, right, then things got more in-depth, exactly, but for example, there are a lot of people who don't know that the crimes in Brazil on Instagram are yours, they're from the book, no just just Liv Liv From the comments

in this area, that's when I say that it's not not mine because I'm not it's not just me that it's very difficult there's no way, right ? yes, this can be that, no, this can be removed, now donate, so I'm monitoring it because it's about the books, right, it's about the books, I even have a project to transform this into a book that will be called Brazil to make it like an anthology, each chapter a book, in fact, each chapter a crime a crime these crimes of repercussion there a little but it is a child

of the the blog is a child of the crimes of Brazil Although it was an initiative of the newspaper to call you for this, exactly Letícia, who is the executive editor who worked with me on Correio Brasiliense she had already told me about this because crime gives a lot of audience , right? masa no I won this battle of bringing it because the newspaper is very hot, especially the newspaper's website, and I was also a reporter my whole life, the reporter is very passionate about hot news, look like this man here, his wife went there

and cut off his penis his Uhum So you keep giving hot attention to the thing that just happened like it was a pulse, right? You can't drop the ball because in journalism we talk about there are cold matters that you can give away at any time, like for example the goods that the André was losing there That's a cold article, it took me a month to make Suzane's brother, but then I get a lot because also after I published the books I made Instagram, it became a reference like send a message Delegates from Goiás do

Mato Thick, he's a Police Chief, a prosecutor, a relative of a victim, so he ends up there sifting through things that are unknown and I'm they're regional, they're regional and and the business and it's impressive, Bia, because I remember it was at Carnival and I had written some impressive articles and along with that I I'm going to make the books, right? And then, since it was Carnival, I told the editors there, look, now the site is dominated by a samba school parade thing. Uh, I'm going to give it a little time so I don't spend

it on Carnival when the crime hearing, I thought, right, fall, fall a little, come on, he said, don't fall, he said like this Oh, but find just one thing so the blog doesn't get killed during Carav, Carnival, then there was a lawyer who had already told me a story that I had a story about. It was very small, it was a woman who was carrying out scams in Itapetininga here in the interior of São Paulo, she went to buy goods in stores from era to time, not in Boutique bti in boutiques, she bought clothes, shoes

for adults for children and she wrote it down, she paid an installment that in the In the interior, there's a lot of stuff in her notebook, she writes it down every month, she goes there, some stores give her a payment slip with a bar code so she can go and pay and everyone pays, right? But then she started applying a lot of scams, she started scams, she paid the first one, she paid the First, the first installment to be able to take the clothes, which has to be paid in installments on the spot and then

she didn't pay any more, then she went to another store in another store, so at first she did it there, she paid the payment in cash, that first installment, the second one, she already I would let her or she would already pay the second one of 30 days and then parav pav would pay more on the second one, it was already in the other store that you thought she didn't, she didn't, she only paid the first one, she only paid the first one and she gave it I read this on your blog she was giving

this she went to this when one started to charge her she went to another one And then the store was going to charge her and she didn't say look no debt is not a crime default is not a crime and really no one goes to prison only debt that you're going to prison , which is a pension , that's you, but no debt, right? that the debt that the debt was 700 900 but then each store but then it was already in the 15th store And then I thought it was funny because the lawyer when

I came in He got in touch, no he made a post Actually I saw that and went behind him but I went out of pure curiosity because he made a post saying that he is a civil lawyer, Daniel Magal. He said that he is a possible lawyer and he had a client who had been the victim of a default by one of the stores, one of the stores, she is a store owner, she was the victim of a customer who defaulted and she said she wasn't going to pay because the debt wasn't, it wasn't, and

then he went to the registry office and discovered that she was married in community of property, that is, the husband also took on the debt, took on the debt And then he went there where he had blocked his wife's account but had R$ 7, she had a car but it was an old Escorte from the 20s 80s that wouldn't pay anything and then he went quietly No, he blocked her husband's current account and withdrew the amount of the debt because he was the debt was also his if they were the debt due to the marriage

regime, yes, like you are, you loved this lawyer Yes, and then I did this article like Look I'm going to do this story, her debt was just that when we use it as a parameter for you to give an article like this, the value of her debt is very much taken into consideration, like a hole in the public coffers Ah, if it's 1 million, that doesn't even give a grade But if it's 100 million Uhum And then when they said R 7000 USA I said that's it, that's it, I got it And that's great, right?

I called my husband, husband said man, I don't believe the scammer, I don't believe you're doing a report on this, I said, yeah I'm at Globo newspaper, I said, I said, man, like, Look, this is very absurd, I've already paid the debt, I don't owe anything, but I thought the way it was charged was unusual And then he said, look, I'm going to hang up the phone, I don't believe you Be a Globo journalist, I said, okay, but then I even sent a copy of the process, look, your process is here, he said, it's the

process, fine, but, okay, so let me skip my carnival and you published this at carnival, I published it, I published it at carnival, and what was it? the repercussion was among the most read, like I was impressed, so I managed to break down a taboo on the blog that was divided. Many opinions here, not the others were, all the articles were good, but they were famous cases, of course, if they remained, oh boy from lz and ended the relationship with the new boy there I put it on the blog business boom Suzane gave birth bomb

Suzan changed her name candy then now when she came up with a story that no one knew, simple and simple and A Story No kidding Gazeta de tapetin enga, right exactly but It was out of legal curiosity It was out of legal curiosity, many lawyers will use this case to collect the debt, and be warned, if you are married under the community property regime, your spouse's debts are yours too, It's true, people don't touch each other That's it, right? That's when he called me and said, Man, I'm about to lose my job because the newspaper

says I'm a deadbeat, even though I having already paid, there's no way you can take that away, I said, look, it's not that I didn't believe you, he didn't believe it, according to him, he didn't believe it, he just believed you were you, you are and from Globo he thought someone was pretending to be me because when he He Googled it and saw it, no, he's a book writer, it doesn't make sense. It can't be about taking material and what do you attribute to this audience because, for example, true crime is a success, yes, even

at carnival, how are you saying, what do you attribute? to this public taste, so more and more that we play real crime stories, whatever category you see, this one was from the Civil sphere and it always generates repercussions because, for example, you are a guy who today has an audience very faithful waiting for what you are going to write what you are going to do what you attribute this Bia I think it is a mirror I think people stand in front of a mirror because if you go and see this story even though it is

a story I consider it a story This debt is small, the way it was, it's unusual, but how relevant it is, it's a small story, but the person finds themselves in that situation because people who went through it, Primo, people, or because they defaulted and didn't try to collect and couldn't. and they didn't pay attention to the fact that they could go to the registry office to see if the person is married or not under which regime they are married, so I think that from small to large the person sees themselves, I understand, identification is,

for example, the Fleur de Lis crime Flor de Lis was the most voted deputy in Rio Vot, so everyone who voted for this woman follows her life like a soap opera, Elise Matsunaga, she was married to a businessman from a very well-known brand, IOK, so everyone stays I think people follow it a lot because they feel part of it. That is very much the principle of the Jury Court, these crimes against life because they end up in the jury court because the jury represents society, yes, one of us now we will judge you So I

think it's a lot like this, this consequence effect within a bubble could be a small bubble like Itapetininga but it could be a bigger bubble like Rio a bigger bubble like São Paulo depending on where the crime occurred And do you think that in some way, periods of society, times talk about history and crimes in a country, for example, like ours, I think that part of the history of a nation is also told by the crimes it commits, and I certainly think that you see, for example, you see, for example, that a country like the

United States has this tendency to be an extremely violent nation, not only because of the weapons there, but also because of the crimes that have occurred there, which are extremely violent, so you see For example, here in São Paulo, we have a crime museum at the Civil Police Academy, so I didn't know . a manic from the Park, including one, here's a tip, free entry Museum of crime Museum of crime São Paulo that's cool, so, but there isn't a period in which this began, the museum isn't there, if it's an exhibition, then no, it's permanent,

it's there permanent, you go there, for example, there are handcuffs that Suzane was arrested in, there is the suitcase in which the body was carried, there is that famous suitcase crime, I don't know if you remember that they dismembered him, they put a body in the suitcase and sent it on the bus and found it somewhere else and then it was before Elize, it was well before, well before it was a suitcase suitcase, including those very old suitcases . It's nothing that's going to trial, it's just everything that's already closed down, everything because in the

past some things were destroyed, others I don't remember, for example, in Suzane's trial they took to court the mirror of the bed where the couple was sleeping when they were murdered because the CR would make a few mistakes and pick it up in the mirror and scratch, scratch, scratch, exactly so for them to impress the jury with the violence of that act, look here, they took the headboard, they took it, like, for example, the headboard isn't there because it was destroyed, but it would be an object that would be could also be there, yes, so

that's it, so I, I think that the history of society is also told based on these repercussion crimes, I agree with you, and we have a lot, right, that's why I think it's valid, eh if you publish books if you make a series because it's a way for you to keep these stories permanently in people's memories, we had a very famous crime, that's that socialite from Minas Gerais who was killed by that Playboy man. My God, I'm forgetting her name now that the trial has been Evandro is even a very famous lawyer who put up

the defense of honor Yes, I remember that one, I remember Dorinha do Val, the actress No, but there was one who was Angela Angel Dinis, who was a socialite and from Minas Gerais and who was killed by Dock Street, no. it was Dock Street and DOC Street and there was an excellent lawyer who was Evandro at the time Evandro Lin Silva, if I'm not mistaken, he claimed that he defended his honor and then you see the portrait of machismo, it's unquestionable, right, because a woman no no The issue is not that she was killed, the

issue was that she induced the guy to kill her because she had a more liberal behavior, yes, right, but you see, for example, now you had to make an effort to remember uhum, right Maybe from here 10 years ago you wouldn't even remember because things are fading from our memory, there are many who enter, right, no, and that's why I think that these crimes, for example, DOC Street must be free, I don't think I even know if there is, it has reached have a series, if not, that's why I think there is a lot of

it. I remember, for example, a program that no one valued or valued, that I thought was very sensationalist, it was Linha Direta, there was a version, Linha Direta Justiça, but there we were. in a transition because we thought that crime programs were always made for the lower classes because they came from those afternoon police programs they were made in a very sensationalist way so Linha Direta I think is Inter is the intermediate phase in which he is still a bit sensationalist But he was already wrapping himself up, he was already wrapping himself up as a

gift to present What documentaries are like Today documentaries are they are very well made they have a very high budget you see the Matsunaga documentary it is a Very well done documentary, João de Deus' documentary, I think these crimes need to stay alive in your memory, you can't forget, especially knowing what it was like before these people were judged and how they are judged Today, the social values ​​that condemn or that today they wouldn't condemn it For example, I think that today Doca's crime wouldn't happen so easily, he wouldn't be released because today we don't

have honor killings anymore, right? a historical book, I think it's really cool because it's also a way for people to portray what society condemned What kind of crime in what era, yes, I'm in. I was quite shocked recently because as I'm researching the park maniac's book, I started reading it and I mean so many things that I've been reading for three months now the trials the testimonies and I'm now reading the part of the testimonies of the victims who survived Uhum So they're going there and they went there to tell what happened and how it

happened because how they are, how they survived, they are fundamental to showing how they are, how they operate, how it was, right, his ex And how did this research happen, how do you get involved in this process and follow it until you become a guy I'm going to go to court? Everything start by sending an email to the court of justice asking to access the processes the processes are active something like that you go oh no I want to do this you ask for a license well okay I have to say so that it's very

bureaucratic it only takes three months to release because despite the processes being open They are not so open to public consultation you have to justify why Ah, because I fear there, right in the process there are photos there are details of the people involved so then they release it because I say it is for a book has journalistic purposes and such they release And then they put huge volumes like the one with the meager maniac has 14,000 Pages because there are four trials link you talked about how it was in the past and how it

was now social values ​​and then I was shocked by the type of questions that were asked at the time to women who survived rape, you know, like, the woman talks like this, oh, hey, I got to sidewalk to be able to enter the park and I thought about giving up then the judge says but why didn't you give up she says, you know, stay eee out, the rape attempts, there are times until I say people, this here seems like a story, but I don't tell porn because the judge, lawyer, including women lawyers who defended the

maniac from Parque, the woman said no and then I was on all fours and he started doing that and the judge asked but you looked at his face at that time I said people as if she had a choice Yeah, you know, other than some other scatological things that I don't even want to talk about here, but like There's a woman who talks like this oh why don't you, she was discovered, she didn't want to report it, she didn't want to, because she found it humiliating, she didn't want to. counting on preserving her too, right,

she wasn't psychologically prepared to face a police station, for example, everything was very heavy, reports of women who survived, they looked for a police station, a police officer asked a victim but he dragged you to the park, he says no, he took me, I went willingly. But when he got there he became the maniac in the park, why did you go there, that's absurd, so when the woman says she's one of them who didn't want to, she went. Thank you and testify because even more so because he was there in court right, but he is

And then she says she had to see him, right? Some ask to leave but not all women knew that they could . may or may not stand in front of it, in fact, anyone there in that chain of custody could tell her, right, because man, it's not one, it's a very humiliating thing, right, the story is already humiliating, see that fact again there with that person which is there and then you see how things were like I even sent some questions to pro to a criminal lawyer who works in Jú and I said man these

questions here he says it's a different time nowadays there's no way to do that there's not so much Now, man, I'm on this mission, I'm going to get some newer cases because this cannot be overlooked, this record like These Women were, please, like these women, exactly how These Women were treated in the trial of P's maniac, this deserves treatment no Chapter but it deserves to be highlighted there so that it can be analyzed and I'm going to make a comparison with new new processes to see if it's not possible for new ones if there has

been an evolution in this then another alization for people Look if we talk about the questions that are asked You don't believe it's obscene, right? And we, the people who deal with behavior even with people who are victims, we have a lot of work to do to preserve it so that it doesn't reproduce that there, right? And then there's no such care at the time, there's definitely a something that I think is a very ingrained thing in society that is difficult for you to change, change which is this condition in which you put her wife

having a share of and already loving her if she were they try to give a little percentage of responsibility for a woman when she falls for a guy's soft talk, there's one thing that when I saw one of the bank's first statements at a police station, I still think that after his third or fourth statement at the police station, the police chief is already like that, woman appears. more woman more woman he turns face but tell me something here you are ugly for [ __ ] how could you drag these women there so I remember

that And then he says like this look I have a power a gift of identifying a woman by her Look, she has very low self-esteem and I know what this woman wants to hear, he said, I just said what she wanted to hear, I didn't do anything, she is I just did it and it's almost like a little apple and she picked it up so I went I thought it was the height of absurdity I said this guy invented this now and it worked uhum but then I went to talk to a victim who survived

and then she was telling me her little story that she was in the city park and she had made an appointment with a friend this friend was a student of the manco in the roller skating business she was a roller skating instructor and then this woman and her friend gives her the cake that she wanted to learn how to roller skate as she gave the cake she stayed there and the maniac approached her Uhum And then he started doing some pirouettes to get her attention and so on and after she was able to get her

attention he went there and smiled at her she smiled And then he said to her, oh me, your smile is very beautiful and then he says are you joking, right? Because she herself says, I never had a beautiful smile, my teeth were crooked, I had those gaps, then she even had orthodontic braces, but my teeth They were brittle today, they weren't like that, but as she even said that when she laughed, she covered it up, you know, then someone comes along and says that her smile is beautiful and she starts to believe it, I said

guys, the guy didn't invent that, he really did that. but I think this is a characteristic of psychopaths they read that they are more influenceable that they are easier to fall and they use they use they have an intelligence that I was going to tell you about their Intelligence has a very rational cognitive intelligence big they don't have the issue is emotional modulation but cognitively he reads the person, yes and then it becomes very easy, it's not that difficult, for example, you take a course on body signals, okay, if an insecure person, the insecure person

tends to have the shoulder more towards here she tends to look so as not to look directly at you you see this woman did it like this so this all already gives clues they read this very ha He didn't lie by the way park maniac I think he's one of the psychopaths in cal Killer for a long time was the greatest in Brazil, then he ended up losing the title, so to speak, to the one in Goiás, owned by Thiago, yes, but he once said that if he left, he would do it all over again

Yes, he says it in all the exams, exactly, he says it, he doesn't have it criminological because How will he leave 2028 without progressing his sentence? He will leave prison straight to life in freedom. If he had had some type of progression to migrate from the semi-open regime to the open regime, he would have to pass the criminological exams where all those come from. there are no tests there anymore. At the time, there was a huge discussion at the time of the trial to find out whether he was unattributable or not and the Hospital das

Clínicas set up a team there and carried out a battery of tests that there is a very robust material like this in which he talks I've already found five documents in which he talks he talks about himself he talks he says it's the business it's a force that comes from outside a magic he leaves it Of course he said I don't know now but he he said, If I leave, I'll do it all over again, the first ones he says in F's interview, the last time he said this was in the interview with Marcelo Rezende

when he was still in prison after the trial, he even said ISO, saying that this is coming I even tried this one, I kept reading it, it's a lot of material, I thought he had some kind of diagnosis of schizophrenia because but he doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't have this inner strength, I think he invents it or if he has it, I don't know or it 's the way to justify this desire that he has, right? So here we go, let's move on to the photos of the maniac, since we're on the subject, never, never

follow exactly, no, no, let's go now, do you, who researched a lot about his life, have any history? in his life with a woman like that in the family, no, I didn't want to spoil the book too much, but I think that's what I can tell you. Of course, there are two things, it's good that Bia can even do her analysis, there's something here. he Even though he was convicted of rape he never managed to penetrate the woman's vagina look and he I have already met four of his ex-boyfriends including boyfriends boyfriends men men in

which he assumed both the active and passive position in the relationship Uhum So what? Eh, so that's it and there's a history of abuse when he was years old from an aunt who abused him She abused him sexually uhum the aunt denies it but he repeated it several times so I think this construction is one there are several bricks yes it's one thing I'm still looking and researching, but it looks interesting because it doesn't surprise me at all and I don't think we can say that Francisco is gay, a psychopath, he doesn't have this problem

of defining, um, he is he, he is n't, he isn't even then he has a question of doing it for pleasure, yes it gave pleasure Ok, so there is no question of penetrating or there can be no story there but what gives pleasure to a psychopath, especially a psychopath like Francisco, is definitely not eh eh, enjoying the way people enjoy, let's say sexually, whether each person is for pleasure, it's much more the question of enjoyment due to the subjugation of the other by the Out's sake. So yes, that's the enjoyment because some people talk like

that, oh he didn't penetrate But that's not what his enjoyment won't be, right, it was a matter of letting the other person see that they will see that he was very sane about that, they talk about him amongst himself, that he would turn into the maniac that he was, even the women came to the park a lot because he was very pleasant, but Then when it was time to make the move, he would turn into the lame man in the Park , he would beat them, he would beat them, but sometimes he would spend an

hour torturing these women. He was enjoying it. It was having this power to decide whether she will stay alive or not, including showing yes, which he said, right, like, I'm God, when I'm there in front of the victim and she begs to live, I'm the one who decides when Yes, she dies, it's more or less the same thing and I think it's pure guesswork because he was never honest and the victims who died are not here to tell but from the history of those who survived, there are many, it seems like they reacted I don't

think I accept it, the majority of women talk like that, you know what, it's over for me, I'm going to do everything he says uhm you know, one of them was going Each one was using an attempt to survive Oh look, don't do anything to me because I have HIV Uhmm And then he didn't do it, but he doesn't do it to me because I'm pregnant, so he was already thinking about the little boy he had, oh, some of them would go into physical fights and then he would stop and increase the situation because then

because he's more difficult to deal with. subdue yes and then the others he said look today today I'm going to make you your lucky day see you can go and the woman but look the command it's your lucky day I'm deciding it's your lucky day I read there and he I knew he took pleasure in torture he said Look I'm going to close my eyes I'm going to count to 20 and you'll run away if I open my eyes and you're still in the middle of the ALC radius I'll catch you uhum run just the

woman says I don't know where the exit is because the park was a rather complicated place where he turns around and even more so when the woman runs away look look you're describing a scene, it's hunting, yes Hunt, right, I'm going to hunt you then It's an animal hunting, look, the pleasure isn't about whether he's going to have sexual intercourse or not , that's a detail. I 'm still not lying , I'm still finding out if he had the surgery or not, he had a big phimosis uhum, even the first girlfriends he had They said

he had difficulty penetrating because of this excess skin Uhum So he says it could cause pain for him Yes, he says it's a little pain, so he uses that, they feel different pain, but the pain he's talking about is uncomfortable for me, it's not pleasurable, you're going to have surgery, right? If you have phimosis, it creates a sexual issue and you end up killing others. people don't and there is another element too that he practiced necrophilia yes he has one of the victims who he says he only stopped having sex with her after the body

disintegrated it disintegrated it actually melted then he couldn't but he put him in a sexual position that he managed to make his body stiffen in that position He stayed there every night, going there to have sex with his wife, until he stayed there for about 12 days, so that she was already in an advanced state of putrefaction, that is to say, she no longer had a life when he was there, she no longer had one, she no longer had one as long as she lived, he Possibly you don't know if he had any women while

he was alive, he had any women of those who died, they found sperm, traces of sperm, he didn't find any death, so you see a lot more indicating that the issue was in torture , and others have one, for example, who was raped. She talks about the horrors she went to do and she tells the police station that she was a virgin and she was covered in blood And then she went to do the corpus delicti and she was still a virgin. I think this fluidity also says a lot, there's a curious thing, that was

supposed to be a surprise in the book, but since we're going there, it doesn't need it, but I think it helps us understand so that Bia can analyze her, which is one of the victims they slept Like him man he was really crazy then he slept there like it got dark they slept And then the woman also slept there she doesn't even know if she slept or passed out And then when she woke up he was parading around with her clothes Uhmm he wore her clothes and she was parading, in other words, there's something like

this, this is the female figure that affects him a lot in this other place, for sure, for sure, for another woman, another victim He said he wanted to be a woman, he said, look, I wanted to be you, that is There's one more one, I understand, I understand what you're saying, there's one, some element in which subjudging women is much more interesting for him, because no, it's not known that he did this to men until now, no, no, right, so all the men who they got emotionally involved with him, they even spoke very highly of

him, one went to the police station, not believing that he was a he, that he was a he, because he had been a great boyfriend, the issue is with women, right, it's in the female figure, it's just that I haven't gotten to the part yet to take this information to have a more reading You know, yes, evidence is evidence for a forensic psychiatrist to do the Because the studies that were carried out on it are very far back, I think it's a lot, it's a lot because there's something like that, if you get a psychiatric

report from a criminal who was made in the heat of the event, he is very crystal clear, he is very, but when you go to the criminology department, the person is already there serving their sentence, they already talk about how they deal with it and then they are more robust, you know, they provide more explanations. bring them, they form panels, Alvino de S did this a lot, he created the panel of USP students from the Universities, he took them there and studied the process, he interviewed the criminal as he was there with his idle life

in prison, they loved receiving these people And then the report came well with complete, but from Man do Parque you get these, it's a lot of him talking about things and them making analyzes that I think are incipient and I also think that he has a tendency not to lie about what he says, I'm not saying that he doesn't have a tendency omitting some things, for example, he says that this is what I'm telling you, he had no reason to say that if he left he would commit everything he can lie he lies because his

line is like that he doesn't confess he denies it So he hires a lawyer, the lawyer thinks it's better for him to confess everything, so he denies everything, in fact, he denies the lie and then he decides to say everything, then when you get to the trial, if you decide to confess, if you want to be me, I confess, you have to confess properly so you can get benefits So what is the benefit, just say what I did, no, that is the principle of benefit, the benefit is now that you confess what you did, help

me in the investigation, you will show me where the Where are they? the cups Tell me how you did it, what it's like to have the operating modes why Because I want to carry out a very well done investigation to hand over to the public prosecutor's office so that you can be judged with a very well done investigation And then you confessed And you have a benefit . an antennuante there and he decided to confess everything I think he tried to lie. He lies some things in court but I think there is already a lot

in relation to vanity, for example he denies it in in court that he had relationships with men uhum he even tries to say that some men are taking advantage of the case being in the media to want the spotlight Because there is a transvestite called Tainá who is going to be on TV saying that she dated him and he denies it he denies it but I think I think which is because of shame, I understood, but then when I went to talk to these people, I saw the truth because the person isn't saying I had

an affair with him, the person tells a story with a beginning, middle and end and with a chronology that matches the line of time I did because they what he was nomadic He lived in several cities he was jumping from city to city throughout the interior of São Paulo So it took me about three months to create this timeline like Christmas year he was here here then he flew back for this it's still confusing he comes back and forth and back he went to Bauru he went I don't know where he went here he went

to São José do Rio Preto he went back to São Paulo I managed to say do this timeline when I was interviewing I thought an ex-boyfriend was a hitter When he was in that city when he started when he finished the guy Oh wait, I have a letter he sent me I'll see here what year it was I understood then and it's difficult for you to find four of his ex-partners who don't even know each other who live in a different city and tell the same things, especially in relation to sexual relations, how it was,

right? I think it could also be a lot of what he created and how Brazil also saw him, right? Ah, he's a man who studied women and so on, he didn't have a relationship with and when he put the man in it could be something that I think there is a detail Bring this to my mind now I don't know if it's right But he was for a long time the champion of marriage proposal letters from women he had this So I think it's not so true, it's so true, there are some myths that are

created that came out in large articles, he doesn't receive it now, but at one time it seems to me that he received it a lot, so that's why I think talking about homosexuality of him deconstructing the image he was created with that he was the man who received letters and that women fell in love with him from these women because there wasn't one thing that women, women who didn't even have contact with him, looked for in prison, tried to visit him in prison . chain, yes, but this is what this is like, I've been doing

Tremembé for 10 years and people are sending letters PR to this day there's a book called oh people, I forgot the name of this book, it's even on the list for me to read urgently, it's a book Just by love letters from people who are free who write to those who are in prison there are they receive so many letters Alex to get an idea that every penitentiary has a department for letters to receive because they have to read these letters you can't send a letter to Alexandre Nardoni there in Tremembé and he doesn't have

to go through a filter because you can be communicating cri ex cri codes so there's this department and they receive a lot of letters what I think happens in the case of the park maniac and other famous prisoners is that These people are elevated to criminal stardom, yes, you may not agree, but it is a fact that these people appear a lot on TV, they appear in the Jornal Nacional, their trial is publicized, the fantastic, they make a 10-minute story, then it becomes a soap opera And then this status as a star of the crime

of crime It puts them all in this position of being harassed of Arousing curiosity and receiving correspondence, like for example, eh, I got a victim who survived who was writing a letter to the maniac in the Park, he was arrested, like, writing how he destroyed her life like he didn't and she needed to wash her dirty laundry and then in the middle of these letters she forgives him he said look thank God for the years THREE years of letters go letters come he replied replied to him responds to some he responds and responds I sent

one letter to him asking for an interview He replied saying no for example uhum I understand he responds in prison resp Do you know why the prisoner responds because they are anxious there and they have nothing to do here you have create one one one one thing there for me to think about and get out of that f also a little then we go back to the lady who has a scene where he is sitting on the bed and he receives a letter with a note inside he turns to the prisoner next door come here

you received the card and said no look I received this lot here, in other words they don't capitalize on it because if you become this crime star you have more value inside you have more value and you capitalize on that for you for sure Like look I'm famous you are not famous so the journalists are after me, not you, not you, they are making a book about my crime, not about it, so it creates a hierarchy within this hierarchy. People here in here exactly create another bubble, intramural society in which I am the protagonist because

I I'm famous, I'm top inside and whoever's out here in turn wants to have their moment of Wow, I know so-and-so, it's like it's a prize and when That goalkeeper left for a while I don't even know if he's already there Liv again but people looked for him to take photos and that was something that brought both sides of the internet, you know, goalkeeper Bruno works as a furniture store, people, when I started, when I was researching Suzane's book in Tremembé, I was a Journalist, I wasn't known then I went to do Eliza's it was

about the time I came back that FL launched the trilogy And then I promoted the books so much I already became known that month then when I went there to Tremembé They were already coming look congratulations on your work Let me tell you my crime, my case, not my crime I also want to write for me and he wants to tell me the story, look, you know, no, like, they don't want to be elevated to the level of celebrity within crime, a girl came to me, look, what about my crime? It's better than Suzane's because

Suzane killed her father and mother I killed her father, mother and brother I have some In their minds, we have to put ourselves in their shoes and see what perspective they have on life from that moment on, which is within the penitentiary system within the penitentiary system, but which is a reputation that goes beyond that, right ? like, for example, Sandrão, that woman who dated Suane with Elise, she was known in the prison system Uhum She was very famous, much more for her violence, even the criminal police officers were afraid of her, the prison guards

were afraid of her, when she dates Suzan, she becomes a National celebrity of crime, yes, so her respect went beyond the limit, you know, she was already walking down the street with her nose in the air, she went to Instagram to do some business there, but to get more engagement, there's a lot of that, so their logic is different, they treat crime as a artists treat their work like this, look, if I'm an artist, my music isn't successful, I'm less, but if my music explodes now, I'm more, they'll capitalize on this, they'll capitalize on glamorizing

Crime, yes, for example, having a space in the museum of crime to tell their crime here they are magnified P pto Yes, but you're saying something that worries me a little, eh, I watch a lot of True crime series, you know, and I'm a little bit afraid because there are series, there are films that they're not they're fiction and not based on all the research you do research work you do factual work, right? It makes me a little worried because in this fictional thing you glamorize something that will reach a lot more people who weren't

connected there in that, for example, I have some criticisms regarding the films they made about Suzane, they made two versions, one in which she is the good one and the brothers there Cravinhos São led them, they made the poor girl's head and the other is on the contrary, she is the most beautiful girl perverse That manipulated and basically divides whose idea it was for a film, but then it's kind of left to the public to decide and I think it's not fair because in reality there are facts to be put forward, people have to choose,

it's not choosing the version, they have to have exactly the knowledge of what happened, true, but look, now we had talked behind the scenes, I've already changed my opinion since then, fickle, fickle, Prof Raul, if it's not because Bia developed more like this, because at the time you were talking, Well, you were narrating and I remembered the trial because the trial really has this clash because what happens, the two of them had ideas together and developed plans together and they confess their confession is crystal clear but then they go to the Jury Court they will

physically separate because each one goes to a jail but before that the film doesn't show before Suzane they keep giving several statements and Suzane who There has to be above average fishing and they will be caught because of Christian and then Suzane calls Daniel and says, Daniel, here's the thing, if the house collapses, I have a suggestion, you confess that you did everything alone, especially because I didn't kill them. No one, right, you were the one who killed me S I didn't put my hand on my hand B my hand is clean of blood and

then and she's even more cunning she says because if you confess alone you'll go to prison and I'll go to visit you in jail every Sunday Uhm, but if we confess the way things happened, we'll both be arrested and we won't be able to see each other ever again and then Daniel's record dropped, exactly Wow, this woman is nothing like I was thinking, right? Then what happens from this fissure, they will confess, each one will go to prison on one side and the lawyers for each of them, who don't create the versions, say, look, say,

for each of them, you'll only get one penalty for you. very high I can reduce it a little if you start to accuse yourselves uhum that's what they start to accuse themselves of they start to say that this is where the film does it like this yes yes where is the film's error In my opinion, I am also critical in relation to the film is that it should portray the investigation phase, yes, because then what happens when it becomes a trial, it becomes a lawyer's thesis on one side and on the other, then you go

to the lawyer, the lawyer says that the sun rose blue and goes to there and says that the sun rose blue that we convince the juror that the sun rose blue but that doesn't stop at the facts for what bothers you that that doesn't work that doesn't work in the in the investigation in the first in the first testimonies because the investigation it's based on the facts Facts and without a lawyer's thesis Because then people can in fact have their opinion but based on things that were found, yes, and then it goes into what we

were talking about about the maniac in the Park who lied, lied, lied, wants to confess, I want you, then confess it right that Suzane and Daniel when they decide to confess how did you kill the victim And then they do it the way it happened but for me it's like this there are two dead bodies lying in a bed uhum three murderers who confessed I sent this one killed one this one killed another one the truth is that now for me the film divide on the thesis of whose idea it was and Sorry That's very

small there are three murderers now where so far we 're ok we're agreeing Where did I change my opinion is in relation to the fictionalization of real crimes uhum because oo I think that this truth that You are demanding, I think it has to be demanded from the documentary because the documentary is made by journalists by documentary filmmakers , it has to be the truth, it is not a film, it is fiction, because that is a historical fact, that is a historical fact that there has to be done that is with testimony from the Prosecutor's

Deputy of the V relative of the victim and you see for example the Nardon case the Netflix documentary everyone is saying you might not even get that there it's 100% It's real, people are not acting, I agree with Deliz Matsunaga, although there are some scenes of an actress playing her running in the woods, but there she is talking to the camera, she could be lying, in fact, she's lying like hell there, but it's her in court people's rights lie. I was even surprised reading the first testimonies of the PAC maniac in the jury court in

which the judge said to him like this, look here you can lie if you want Because here we don't have the crime of perjury, there is in Europe Yes, there are in Europe, there are states here, there aren't any, there's exactly where you can lie, you're free to lie, in theory so as not to build evidence against you, you PR, exactly, but then if he 's free to lie in court, and then I'll take his statement, where is it there? a portion lie and put it in the book I can guarantee you that my book

is 100% real, no the guy lied so it's a question of our judicial system that allows lies as a defense strategy now this truth that we can't even get documentary because Elise sits there and you can demand it if I, for example, there's one on Netflix, there's a nurse of Death uhum there's a nurse of Death documentary and there's a nurse of Death a long fiction feature film, okay, so you have both there, do you want the I understand If you want the truth, this is at least closer to the Truth , I think this

absolute truth doesn't even exist for me, the truth is like until I open the book by the ex Elise Matsunaga, that poem about the mon de case Andrade, which is the door to Truth , he says, look, the truth doesn't exist because everyone enters the door of truth, each person leaves with their own truth, but you want to get closer to it. It's the documentary, it's the documentary, because when you go to fiction then fiction I tell you this because I'm in a fiction script room in fiction based on real facts you use other and

other other instruments for example you have to create a hook from one episode to another you have to create a relationship between the characters that sometimes fiction doesn't give you because the dramaturgy speaks but I'm going to do a comma semicolon because that way if we leave fiction and start justifying everything for that character, everyone is capable of doing anything thing if I justify it then we fall into that issue certain crimes This is my point of view and they are so dantesque that only someone who already has a line of cold indifference towards others

is capable of doing understand what I'm saying talking about fiction so much to the point of justifying everything but then you know where we will agree we will agree on the following I agree with that then I can disagree no but but we will now find the common denominator so let's go that's how I think that the problem is our divergence it is on the label which label are you going to put on this product this product here is a documentary this product here is based on real facts when you use this joint F is

When you put this joint I understand Then you have already opened one no it's not even a door You opened a gate to create on top uhum because in dramaturgy when you tell a dramatized story there is something that is a principle of dramaturgy which is also the principle of the soap opera What is the principle of the soap opera these characters are divided into nuclei and they need to interact with each other, interact in reality When you are going to do a true crime, sometimes you can't make sure that, for example, the victims of

the maniac in the Park didn't know each other, but if someone is going to dramatize it, they will have to do it Crossing their path exactly, you'll have to do it because otherwise the deal won't happen And then the script technique and the dramaturgy work when you say look, it's based on I don't know if the book or Suzane's films have this, it's said to be based or if they say I confess that I don't know I also don't know how to tell you but it would have to be said You would have to be

informed Very clear to the public that based is not exactly what it is but what I think is that people end up out here not getting too caught up in it, it's like this ah I remember the time when people left calling the office a lot to Ah you can ask Bia what she thinks What is the positioning of this who is right who is wrong then? I think that today a conversation with you, who is an enlightened person, a researcher, brings a different perspective, even to me, who am a layman, to everyone, so my

dream is that your books, The trilogy there, murderous women, Which, by the way, will be drawn, right, today in the at the end of our qu asun whoever asks the most interesting question about the program according to exactly there is a criteria will receive the murderous women or box with Dangerous Minds and then we will have a draw there draw no also the questions questions are three the three questions The most interesting ones will have the happiness plus, the first question we chose, the three of them here will receive the most interesting combo. the dangerous

mind exactly and comes and the third receives happiness another lies dangers So my wish is that this is this material that I have already read the two books are wonderful they are wonderful Of course I really became more aware of Fleur de Lis You said you only read two You missed one Which one you didn't read which one I didn't I read all three Oh no, what you said I read them both no sorry and all three it's because Flor de Liis got me in a way I was shocked that aa L's flower seems like

this gives a bath to the other two, it's a postgraduate PhD, but I think it's because you, as a psychiatrist, it stretches you more, it pulls you more through the process, maybe, but the three are wonderful. So my dream is that the three of them were material from base to documentary to series because then they are based on things that they will say, they will talk about this society in which we live in these values, in 20 years, yes, the book is your dream, it is about to be realized, Suzane's book and that of Elise

They already had the copyrights for the audiovisual and they were bought to make a product that I can't go into too much detail and I'm at the table in the script room too to bring the business as close to reality as possible invited to the premiere With I'm sure we're going to have a debate at the premiere, enjoy, but then I just wanted to complete a deal in the United States, if you consume anything made by Americans there, there's no such thing as you're the biggest factory that has this type of entertainment, you won't be

fooled It's either based on a real fact or it's a fact Or it's fiction, like, you don't know, I think here in Brazil we still don't report this in a certain way because I've seen a lot of people with several cases like Suzan's film Ah, I'm in favor of it, no. I'm in favor of it, as if I had it in my head, I think I think exactly that, I agree, I agree, you don't have to throw this doubt out to the public about who the three are not murderers are murderers, whose idea was it,

the least of whom the three were willing to do what what was done, I'll tell you more if you have two murderers, I already got them to draw, let's go and you have a client whose parents died they are Suzane's parents So how do you want to put it in someone's head that's like that tries to put you in the person's place two people had the idea of ​​killing my parents and I agreed, right ? Suzan benefits from crime, there's no other beneficiary, Daniel, like, we're going to set it up, she's going to inherit it

and we're going to set up a company, but it's her company, it's not yours, her money and something else while you're dating her, right? It's not there, that's why I agree with this, I understand the division of the film to put Whose idea is it? Poor thing induced by them or else they were seduced and deceived by them. There are no young men or women there, so I think it's very clear to make a version to try to alleviate someone's guilt there. with her panta dress as if it were a sight to you, you share

and want to force it, it's you wanting us to believe in that, don't be afraid, then I think it's disrespectful towards the public, yes, because if you want, knowing everything exactly, glamorize it, that's your option. but I can't provide or facilitate that, yes, yes, that's it, you know, actually what bothers me most about this film is they put it, I don't know if it's in both versions or just one, they put a homosexual affair with Suzane's mother, I don't know if you remember it looks like a girlfriend Oh yes yes in the book not in

the book she is a friend because Even I came in she stays as a friend because I even interviewed this woman I discussed this with her she even laughed in my face she even called her husband oh that story again No, we were friends, we were friends, I, she, as my friend, ISO, she made other mistakes, for example, she was her first patient, I understood, and then Marisia, how she was a patient, and Marisa was a lonely woman, she made friends and Ask her to go to the beach, I understand, like, she was patient. she

was marisia's patient, marisia's patient and then marisia calls her, no lie, they meet her casually on the beach, they sit together, they drink a caipirinha, their husbands are together, that is, two couples stay there and from there a friendship is established and then the Marisa says look, I can't help you anymore But she stayed there for a long time but then the police started to say that what happened was that Daniel and Cristian were already separated there so that one could accuse the other, they started to say that this was a of the reasons to

have done what you did there is no ex imagine go Pranta inquisition the woman has a friend and is going to be killed because that's just exactly bench but then they don't for me it's like that oh the person's Sexuality it has to be addressed in the in a film in a book in any place whatsoever if it has any direct relationship with the crime with the crime like there is with the maniac in the park for example Uhum but the victim there has no relationship whatsoever with the people and she denies it and the

woman denies the woman to one died and her friend denies it she says look at this I'm glad my husband never believed it uh because he all ases us but then the film that then the film has a lot of strength and when you stage ISO exactly and you don't stage the woman denying it because they didn't go after the woman but she's there as a couple in the film. That was a part that bothered me a lot because he has a very strong force, a force even dramaturg like that, and it becomes as if

it was a justification for that woman to have a friendship , maybe she does and that ends up reaching a group in society that is something that doesn't accept it right Ah, that was it And then mine, because she is a daughter, seeing that situation generates a ha, it's resolved, I mean There are several subtle things that generate and lead you to demystify and put together your own story and you reach a layer of society that is not small that still thinks like that . It starts to justify the unjustifiable, my biggest fear is whether

it is justified or unjustifiable, this scares me a little for when the couple's maniac's book comes. Look, I have to deliver it in June, now he 's going to PR that production line for three months until then, he's going to get it. come July August September he's there as he is a little late we're going to do a scheme somewhat similar to that of Fleur de Lis instead of me preparing the book and sending it all at once I'll send it as the chapters go getting ready so when the last one arrives the first one

is already running so he he but he has to come out this year although then I ideally would be September October which is the last one I think I think he will come out in I think he will come out in July uhum no lie in August at the beginning of August beginning of August if I burst at the beginning of September burst at the beginning of September because there is a period there, right, you who already published this, that's not if, if not, 14 is not the limit there, the ideal is that it should

be done by September 15th, ideally sell it as a hidden friend, right of the year, right, ex, exactly, what is it like here ? transformed for some people who came close to me and even when we can get to know you up close, like a person who can bring us a slightly hidden truth of this And then people saw you as the truth of the facts, right And then they ask so how is it that this is where this all started in lices what time does the LIS have to work writing research assembling how is

this like this for How do you divide this time because whether you want it or not that's what you've said so far today so you it was a little unknown and when you even go in for research Hey, I've done worse than that, I mean you became a reference person to bring the truth about something and how do you divide that time so you can research Write developing is because that's how I've always done it my life now scripting scriptwriting now that's how I've always done it on a much smaller scale working as a reporter

I've always been a reporter my whole life and the reporter's job is that you go for an interview you go after a document you looking for proof that that exists that that is true in the book this only increases its size Because instead of me writing a six-page report now I have to write 300 pages so it increases It's as if I were doing the volume of the work it's as if I were doing a cake a week now I have a Confectionery, right, you have to do it on an Industrial Industrial Scale But that's

the way it is and it's funny, right? Because people don't release more than one book a year, we can't do it because just research takes time, there's no way you can't Very important TRs and then why didn't you write about so-and-so? Why don't you, I'm like that? Why don't you talk about that? Why don't you write one about that? One interesting thing about the list is that it brings very small details to build that and bring truth, yes, that's why I think that documentary series and films using ulices as material will be very important, it's

much better, you know that I'm very called now but I don't have to do research for audiovisual production ah we're doing another crime here we need to be the researcher uhum but that's a crime that I've never had any contact with, like, look, it takes that long, actually, it's just that research for a book is very different from research for an audiovisual there is a producer who called me a stream. In fact, she called me to do research for a business one of their projects that was stuck this project got stuck we found out that

it got stuck because lack of research and everyone recommended that in True crime you do the best research I said seriously and what is the project like this ? the research that you TM just to take a look and then I'll tell you where you think you didn't get it that it was a subject that caught me that I could be interested but she sent a survey that three research three did But they sent the link to W from G1, I said, man, this isn't research, sorry, no, the process wasn't up there because it's a

lot of work, yes, you know what the biggest work is, which is you have to mine because you have 14,000 pages, you have to know where what is interests you Because the whole process has testimonies, there is expertise in the middle of it all, there are expert statements, a complaint from the Public Prosecutor's Office where he summarizes everything in a very good way, it's not like, sometimes a complaint has 100 pages exactly and an investigation too, which is a robust piece but then man, just the maniac in the park has 26 testimonies between the Jury

Court, the testimony of this one is countless pages, right, so now you're curious, do you think about writing another genre because I think you're very funny, funny, that's what I think you have a sense of humor that doesn't appear in this type of work, but then when I get very full of it, I keep checking myself because I think that books are very much about lives that are still there, like, for example, Elise Matos Naga, I was very careful with my family from Marcos Matsunaga because firstly, their parents helped me But they were very worried

about it not offending them, I understand, so much so that he was there all the time Wow, but there won't be a photo of my dismembered son, right? I said no, that would never happen So I think you have a respect for the family that I think is inus, so I don't think it's enough to be I think you bring a seriousness to things I love humor but I think it can take you to a place that isn't very cool but I'm not talking about humor based on crimes but I think in the product I

think in the product a book I even think that it has a dose of humor because the situations are funny Uhum but for example I think that the humor the humor he he he or she softens a lot Sometimes things are very serious and I think they know the humor, in fact I think the humor is like a pepper , so you can be sure book you bring is and when I don't know sometimes if where it matches I prefer it's like there was an event there within that tragedy but it was like something else

Inter I talked about it people look I just said something Totally different like I think you're a very observant, very detailed guy, for example, you write a book or a series about relationships in general and in the middle there are people who are more complex or not. Funny, I think it would make a good thing, but I'm like If it were that thing, you bring up the relationship and in the middle of that relationship there is that sister who is a little jealous and but subtleties, right? But you also know something, a book like this

really affects people's emotions, they read it, they are shocked, they they are sad they are very impacted by the crimes or they deny it some deny it I say the reader knows like this and then I think that ah I think that the humor I know even in small portions no but it wouldn't be about that subject Oh you don't say In these books, no, I'm talking about a book , not completely . per month because ma'am, instead of writing a blog, I'm writing a book because I really can't start from an idea, it's not

real, what is it for you to create within the understand if it's organized in this way, right? Yes, yes, I need the elements to, in a certain way, you I never told people about creating humor with this genre, not for the love of God, never humor, take advantage of this gift of writing to do something different, now no, no, I'm trying to do other genres, I have a project that every time I talk about this project on my podcast Direct fills with messages but finally I have a project to write a book called Cemetery Saints

Uhum which is the story of those people who are dead that no one knows who they are and that they are said to be miracle workers and then it all started there in Belém that there is a grave of a girl called Josefina, tell me that once I went to the cemetery to do an All Souls' Day report and the fire department was there putting out the fire, there was a fire going on. The woman's grave had so many candles that it was her saying She was a miracle. In the North, there are a lot

of people. There are a lot of people in the North. And then they started sending me a lot. Look, here in the city, there's this little baby. Here in São Paulo, there's the popcorn boy who works miracles. So there's a lot of people, who is something. I think it's okay, it's based on a real fact there and then you, but you depend on a lot of human behavior, right ? A lot of intrigue is that today , for you to worship a saint, you need approval from the Vatican. of Miracles and proved because her faith,

right, El has it Look, there's this Saint here in citrio, I don't know when there will be time, but I think you should do it because it's beautiful, that's faith, because you're moving and bringing each person's faith, that's what's popular. that is not linked to an institution like I want to know the story of the popcorn boy, do you know who this popcorn boy was? By the way, this led people to have faith and in the club for this child. I was doing a report in the middle of the pandemic in the interior from the

Northeast, we passed on a road that had a grave on the side of the road, I said no, people stop in the car here, I want to look at this and we started there and the photographer was with me, he started taking some photos and then people started to gather around People say no, this is the saint of our community, this girl died like this, she was kidnapped, then she was missing for a year, we found her body and now she works miracles, who's going to say that that doesn't make a miracle, it doesn't and

the woman tells People start to cry, like, this is what I think, because if we stop and think, I've had patients before, and Bia herself also talks about her relationship with her grandmother, and I've had patients like this, this connection of faith is very connected with someone who has always had real there, right, if we take it like this, for example, I will use the one to not use the closest one, which is Bia, the mother, her little voice spoke about the visit from the black girl who would arrive on the 12th. so that remained

in the imagination of that child who is Bia and sat there waiting for her grandmother's friend to arrive and that grandmother's friend is still to this day Our Lady of Aparecida, so she understood the connection and when you ask, do you have faith, Bia says I I have faith in God in Our Lady but she doesn't have that ritualization, right? So I think a book like yours would be fantastic because you will bring out the true faith of each person, yes, and it's something that you can't doubt exactly. You can't be your faith in this

little plant here, look, what will move you and what will make sense to you is positive thinking and man, and based on the feedback I get, I've already started cataloging people, I'm sending people, it's not for now. but I'm going to create a little part that I'm going to save because I see that people are very interested, that's it, you write a book, you want to be read, I don't want to write a book to stay there, it's exactly and I see that people su they affect people's emotions and they affect faith, it's something that

transcends And then someone else starts to tell stories about miracles. Look, I had cancer. I went to the hospital. Whoever says that there isn't isn't even in this right the certainty of what they don't see, right? And you see a lot of things like that, I've been to a cemetery, which is why there's this ball, because there's this cart, because there's this, and sometimes it's not even that publicized like the saints of the cemetery but we there, within that history of that cemetery there, Oh, because this child here he died sickly like that and the

other families came and started, I mean, they are Miracles but not known, right, and they don't give voices, but the If you go to see, for example, the book by Fleur de Lis, it flirts a lot with the Supernatural, which for me, like, I confess to you that I don't believe it, I don't believe in the stories that her mother tells, even though it was a little proven with The things that happened the way they happened have a lot to do with the park maniac also because he has a grandfather who was a Sorcerer and

then when he starts telling the story of the spells that his grandfather performed with animal sacrifices, I think it's sensational, I don't believe it, but you also do declarative journalism, yes, you listen to a person and say what that person is, that is within that person's story, it is exactly their experience, they believe, they tell supernatural things, I think it is very cool because it creates an involvement, people like to reading this there is a lot in the flower of lz there those visions that she had those prophecies those entities that her mother the flower

of lz herself worshiped a certain keturi who says she embodied I don't believe it but the narrative is interesting I put it for sure, for sure, he's flirting a little bit, but if you get it, it's just like us in a doctor's office. To understand, there's no point in saying that one is TDH or that depression got here, there has to be a story there, from the beginning, middle and end. When you say this, you think like this, where this mother must have often communicated, Flor de Lis's mother, how many times she communicated, managed and

brought people to her through this entity of hers and the daughter, in a certain way, always used faith and things to achieve things, yes it is part of people's history, part of it is part of history and then another project that I also have which is for later is about air tragedy which I want to get into an accident and you know that Brazil doesn't have one This culture is also other things that I 'm very worried about falling into oblivion or passing away as the story goes along, right along the story it's a TRE

that's nourished, it depends exactly, so for example there's a flight that crashed there. It didn't crash in São Félix do Xingu, here in the Amazon, the one belonging to Commander Garcez, who has a survivor of the VG who has survived this month, and so I'm already cataloging this Survivors. world, this is not registered, people, you know, a plane crashed, a BO crashed, what was it, what was happening there at that moment, everything exactly like them, this already has it, you will have an easier time finding it for yourself Oh yes, because there are already people

like that, there are people very fascinated by aviation who tend to have, I don't know if the testimonials from Survivors because there are almost none, you know, in general, but it is, but also today I already benefit a lot, I have no problem saying that, I already benefit a lot from the prestige I have. as writers, for example, I say, for example, I say, look, make an air decider, one already sent me the process. Look, the survivor started looking for me because you have the credibility, you bring the truth, that's what I'm saying, or if

it's not the truth, that's the thing. More pro, I think this truth doesn't exist for me, the truth only exists if 2 is more than 2 is more than There are four It's true, if you're in doubt, you can even go to the calculator, oh, that's it, but you bring clues to that there are strong reports and you put it there that it was described by the person, yes, so there is that because for example, my biggest, my main source of consultation in real crime has to be the process, that's what I'm talking about and

there's a maxim to say If you're not at the top, you're out of the world because it's as if everything there was true and it's not, it's not, it's not because of that the Brazilian judicial system gives you the right to lie, yes, so now that when you say no, but it is based on the process as if that were a real reference, no, it's not, we don't, and there's an interesting thing that you're talking about, but not in the process, but in the tests, right, for example, in Brazil, necessarily in what others They say

that's right, but you know that in Brazil, testimonial evidence is very important, it has an important weight because you're saying something that, for example, we've been traveling a lot, right ? We're on the road now, today, for example, we're on the road and we have to thank Flow Saa here, who also gave us their house. He gave it to us here for sure, but ulices, for example, we're oh, the plane is going to take off. Then in a little while they tell us oh no, why do we have to wait, I don't know what we

have to refill but the door was already closed, they had already said they were going to leave and they didn't, these are the things that then the next day you realize It wasn't Why did this happen? There was an accident and it started rolling, taxiing, taxiing, this one goes to sleep quickly, I don't sleep, planes, but that's not for nothing, I don't sleep anyway. I see, I see, he was already snoring . PR nothing is happening It's calm when he came back they were reviewing the track because there was a wind, we were having a

sky like a brigadier there was nothing windy so I was from Fortaleza so I wasn't from Manaus to Fortaleza and we had another one to catch for Amaz there, you're scared, right? Exactly then I said something like this, people, there's something strange, but I kept quiet. After a while, out of nowhere, I said something like this, refueling completed, they forgot to add fuel because it's much easier to get there. They probably started taxiing to go up and realized that they weren't refueled so it was much easier to get there and talk people look unfortunately but

I think there is a panic protocol imagine if he said no then I went to the bathroom then I did this refueling imagine if you are flying he says the plane is not fueled it needs to start to kill yourself inside the plane, no, not flying, but there are things like that that are surreal, no, I then congratulated the pilot, I said something beautiful, you saw it before we started, better, but you were lucky that you still did it, for example, it happened to me too, take Brasília Congonhas and the plane go there in a

hurry because there was no reason Oh okay, ISO happens a lot and we are ready to work on the person who is afraid of planes because Bia and I have already passed New York Rio people the plane it's not going to take off because the tire is flat, the tire is flat, it's going to change the tire But that's ok, but what you're saying is because you're very scared, but you have a profile, I don't know if it's on Instagram, on tiktok, which has already fallen For me, I don't know which algorithm was there Uhum

but there are some they are booming like the retired pilot retired pilot of the retired flight attendant That he keeps telling the stories is a lot a lot he says Look when they say that when they send and go back to the place and Putting on a seatbelt is because, like, some really big shit can happen, causing turbulence, and if you don't have a seatbelt on, Tubá with your head can actually cause a head injury. Yes, and these are very serious things that you can't do, I think. It's worth it, it's not really cool, your

projects are really cool, they're good things, but I'm curious to know what this script room is, but that's okay, what I want, I want to prove that I can do something other than be true Cry that's what I think Bia wanted to bring at that time Liv that's what I was talking about now is that you don't get stuck just in this content you have you have possibilities and capacity to For example this one about the plane cemetery things and with a lot of things that are true, we know, we live, we stay a lot,

too, because the publisher I'm hired for is very commercial, they're commercial, right? box it was a market demand because when it was launched the three of them started to buy the three together and Ah, let's make the box and the box became a success, that's right, so for example, it's the pack maniac, it follows the same pattern, it will have a cover similar so I know that there is a commercial requirement that three be done so that in a little while they will go to a box, what I achieved is that I'm not going to

do them in a row like I did, I'm going to give them no, so now I'm going to do it, I want to do this one crimes in Brazil to open up a wider range to make this record of crimes that I think are not so well known but it's very interesting for us to think about everything, right, the interesting moment too, look, I'm already giving you more work hey, when you said it, but when you said it, you know, you're known and pass and people Hey, I have a different crime, you brought me something

like this These were the ones that the media brought But suddenly there are crimes with more torture and with more situations But it is and that it was never the woman in the scam, it was a simple, unusual thing, you know, I think this goes viral, as I thought it wouldn't, it wouldn't if I knew it was going to have a very high audience rating, first of all, I wouldn't have released it during Carnival, right? still thinking that at carnival no one from TR crime people true crime is a column he has in the Globo

newspaper which is wonderful if you don't follow it, let's start with Look at the stories details and characters of real crimes that seem more like fiction fiction ex I loved this call foes that they made there, right, but very cool, look at this, let's go, who is this lady who is Nelma, Mrs. Nelma kodama, Nelma kodama is a very old character, me, man, she appeared in a very funny way when I worked at Veja o Albert magazine and CF had was released into the lava Alberto CF is the money changer of the lava he was

the first he made the plea bargain And then he went home with the lathes leira and Veja magazine told me to go after him Look we want an article with Alberto iusef me I looked for the lawyer the lawyer looked for him look see he wants to give you he wants an interview with you agree then he said no I don't want to rest I want to be quiet I want to be quiet And then his lawyer said look the sefe didn't agree But I'm me I also advocate for the Ma kodama ring, do you

want the Nel ma kodama? I said who is the macama ring ? I first went to consult the manager at the magazine because I didn't know her, right? And then I went there and back there, can you please say who nma kodama is uhum, we did a search in the editorial office and said guys, she's a who had gone to the CPI at the congress and sang Amada Amante when asked I remember it was her she was she was a lover and then they asked what are you Alberto and CF instead of her answering that

she was a lover she sang a song by Roberto Carlos said people dear people, I remembered her, she is always very creative, right? We certainly want her, that's where we met And then she was already under house arrest with the lathe and she didn't want to help me and so I let her flowers at her reception with the note with my card look and she got in touch with me because she thought I was a lawyer who knows what but when I left the magazine card I had already knocked on her door many times so

I left the flowers my card from the reporter's magazine and she got in touch, I'm sure we'll introduce you to Nema Kodama because at the time of the congress she was overweight, she had bariatric surgery, she had short hair and then she was already thin and with long hair and wearing an ankle bracelet, I was shocked. Now I remember the scene of her singing the song. She was caught trying to board a flight to Milan with €200 in her panties, which was also popular in the media here. And then people love it, right? Like, imagine

you showing it, eh I think this is pure juice from Brazil, just as the person is not the person, she owes 127,127 million reais to the income as a tax owed, she had already been sentenced to 18 years by the car wash, as the car wash she says it was a botched operation she had an induction into her sentence It was terminated she came back according to the Public Prosecutor's Office then she was released free free according to the Public Prosecutor's Office she got involved in drug trafficking one one after that after that then That's

it here, then she went to She says she was deceived by a boyfriend, just as she was deceived by Alberto and the sefe, first she was deceived by him, then she wasn't deceived, and then she served her sentence, she had an instinct pen, she took it out the ankle bracelet got her freedom, she got her freedom back, she started dating a guy who, according to her, she thought was from agribusiness, yes, and then this guy is actually a drug dealer, you know, and she says she was cheating, they arrested them, the federal police intercepted a

plane loaded with half a ton of cocaine in Salvador Uhum And then the federal police say that she was in charge of negotiating the distribution of this drug in Europe and she happened to be in Portugal at the hotel de lua poli you went there and arrested And then brought her to São Paulo put the ankle bracelet on and took her home again and she looks good, right? Yeah, she looks good, she recently got her freedom, which is why we did this article and she wants to be an influence, that's what she wants being an

influence is in what sense what she what she attributes that she has the ability to positively influence people she has two things like not being deceived by men Ok uhum as she says she took a lot of blows to the head and it looks like she is wonderfully well, so she wants to teach people who have already had a lot of setbacks in life, there is no such thing as life, then there is a modest life of condemnation. She also likes to say that she has a modest life, a simple life, but she has to

have it, 127 million OK, you have to have a life, I would be looking for an FCA, for example, but you're not like that, you're a person who has pure emotion, feeling, reason, look, it's not like that, whoever wants to, who can, has to have one, has to have one, has to have genetics, has to have Exactly the behavior then and she is very proud of it she is proud she says that she is proud as is the title she is a Lava Jato whistleblower director not a Lava Jato whistleblower And arrested for traffic nelm

codam she says she is an example of unique female success doleira do bril she really was she was at the time she is the people they capitalize on what they can, right but at the time she was a money changer she was the only female money changer the market was and is still today very masculine now the last arrest hers was in Portugal, yes, right, and she was, but she was arrested and came straight to Brazil or did she even spend time in Portugal and was arrested, no, her story is sensational because she says it

was the best prison of his life, Portugal, she says that Brazil is much better Read this sensational article that says that she was imprisoned in Portugal and then she was already there, she was imprisoned there, she was taken, they took her to a prison called Tiris, which is there in Portugal, in that great Lisbon, just that then she had already been to the Federal Police prison in Curitiba, or to a women's penitentiary, also there in Paraná, in the interior, she had been to a prison here in São Paulo and then when she ended up, her

prison history was very long when she went stopping there in Portugal she said Man, this is the best prison in the world because it had yoga, there was a psychologist, a psychiatrist, she ate cod in the prisoner's lunch box, she says she doesn't want to leave anymore. She says the only thing that was bad there was the mattress wasn't soft but she could call them, they had a list of people who were authorized to receive calls from her, so she could pick up the phone and call them whenever she wanted, you know, talk, so she

can also be an influence on people who can Choosing possible prison locations is difficult for you to choose, right? I don't think this is very difficult, but if you're going to do something wrong, preferably do it in Portugal, in Portugal, inf you know, you know, Rigor, the criminal execution law determines the following you have to serve your sentence close to where your family lives, so if you're in the state, right? If it's a crime, if it's a local crime, with state justice, you say that here in São Paulo, for example, there are prisons spread out

everywhere, but preferably where your family lives to be able to facilitate vis So when you get caught and flagrant And then she is she was caught there she was out of the country she was there exactly ex if she was caught in some American state where there is a life sentence or is it she counts that then she was extradited she was very well off there in Portugal because the prison there was great Ahem but then she asked to read the process um they sent the process to her She read it and when she read

it she said look Eh since I read it Here I want to go to Brazil immediately because I want to defend myself uhum eh I want to hire the best lawyers and defend myself I don't know if she thought the investigation was a little weak she says she was only arrested because she's famous she says look the police chief looked in my face and said no you're a trophy so I'm going to keep you in prison and then she got extradition and ended up as the plane was intercepted in Salvador she went to a prison

in Salvador and then there in Salvador she said people she said She didn't pray, she prayed to stay alive for 5 minutes because the food was spoiled . She resisted, got a transfer to a prison in Santana here in São Paulo and then got house arrest, which is when I went there to do these things, look, let's combine resilience, yes, she has that right there. There's no doubt, I don't know if it's a good influence, but she is resilient is when I say that it's pure juice from Brazil, it's this willingness she has to wear

Haute Couture, I don't understand much about haute couture, the article mentions, but these are all branded clothes, right? It's all branded, it's Prada. This one is Prada, this one is Chel , this one here, who knows what it is, but I think this one is Luiv Vitton, all these clothes are empowerment, right? She's willing to play this role, right? There's another case that I wanted us to see, which is Ana Sofia's, yes, it's there, hey, Luca Lucão Lucão Lucão, this one today is Bru's habit, Bru's habit, sorry Lu, Lu, Lu same interview I will wait

for my daughter until the day I die Says the girl's mother Ana Sofia 8 months after the disappearance this was there in Paraíba it was there in Paraíba in a place called Bananeiras Bananeiras that Bananeiras which has 20,000 inhabitants the story is as follows this girl she lived with her mother And then at lunch time in June last year this girl said she was going to play at a friend's house. So she walked 1 km in a country town and arrived at her friend's house. little friend, that's what the cameras are showing, we got to

our little friend's house, little friend said look, I won't be able to play with you because I'm going with my mother to the neighboring city here and then the girl So, she's coming another day and she comes back to it on the way back She disappears disappears And then there is an image that shows her supposedly entering the house of a boy called Thiago Uhum And then from there She disappears So this Tiago F was accused of raping her and disposing of the body he disposed of the girl's body only that the police did not

first prove that her body never appeared, it never appeared and this Tiago, he denied it the first time and then he was called to testify a second time . be arrested because According to the police there was a lot of evidence that he had committed this crime but then he won't testify he disappears and disappears in a few weeks later they find his body in a forest already in decomposition decomposition and I saw the photos of the body It's kind of weird for him because for him there's a hanging because Theoretically they started He killed

himself he killed himself and then when you have these two elements one a crime without a body right You have a missing person yes but no and then you have or the person who was accused of killing himself , according to his family, he killed himself because he was accused of pedophilia and raping the girl and he wouldn't have done it. And then there's a conspiracy theory that the girl was sold, but then the person who would have said that she was sold was him so they killed him before he went there and told the

whole truth anyway he would have brokered the sale of this girl Theoretically Theoretically because it's all hypothesis it's all hypothetical it's all hypothetical because then the police don't prove it categorically, irrefutably, that he was a pedophile because ah, they learned everything it was, it was a cell phone, a laptop, and they didn't see anything, they didn't see anything material connecting this, they didn't find it because generally in us and on our cell phones on pedophile computers there are a lot of videos right There's a video, there's a photo, there's an Indian there, but there's more

on the deep web, right? Yes, and they didn't find anything But as they say, the police say he was a nerd and he managed to delete everything so that not even Rastro is Uhum, so it starts like that It continues with that, it's like that and then they the police say they found it but then they don't prove it, they don't prove it, they don't show it in documents because they say it's under secrecy and he would have done searches like he went on Google and searched for How to melt the body of a child

with acid like charring a child's body but until this statement from the police he lived alone with his wife And then for example he had a baby daughter and a 14 year old daughter and then at the time the camera shows Ana Sofia Entering his house, his 14-year-old daughter was at home, she wasn't where she entered, but she was in a different behavior in the house and the girl says she didn't see that one. His daughter says she didn't see Sofia enter the house That's where what's interesting is that this case, I've even seen that

there are other cases in Brazil, I cataloged six out of so many that they sent to me. Manaus one in In a city called Sinop in Mato Grosso And then there are these missing children that no one has a clue about, there is nothing similar people there are if you go online this girl's case became a commotion the police chief even says there are a lot of Youtubers that talk about real crimes and then they put together several they do many novelization episodes Where is Ana Sofia where is Ana Sofia on the other hand that

makes the case more intriguing is that the mother, Dona Socorro, she lived in Thiago's father-in-law's house from the guy who is accused of killing his mother, Maria do Socorro, she lived in the house where the girl leaves, it was rented from Thiago's father-in-law, I understood and then when the father-in-law saw that he was accusing his son, he kicked her out of the house, get out of my house now my son is accusing my son of pedophilia, no my son, son, that's right, son, leave my house, she was his tenant and then she started looking, besides

having I lost my daughter now I'm without a home, it was a humble house, everyone there is humble and then she said this in an interview, I think it was on TV Record, so they quickly crowdfunded uhum and got a house, her own house, for her and then they started helping her a lot with, like, she even started receiving international donations and then they started to put her in check to what extent, like, to what extent, the secondary gains that she is having on top of that she doesn't benefit And then, but in the interview

that I do with her She says look here it's a lot of misery if you want to help me I'll go I'll deny it's funny but I don't think that makes her that's all that makes her suspicious doesn't it but they started they didn't start they started but that's what I also think it wasn't what you he said instead of misery, make a donation to give something in pain, I'm already exactly anything, what's most intriguing to me in this case is the commotion it causes Uhum And the fights between the fans, like the fans that

the The girl is alive because the girl is dead and starts to fight and this engages us a lot, you know, in the videos on the networks And then this situation polarized the mother and the father is in fashion so now there will be people who are the mother and the mother who are negligent What do you think exactly, let's go because if we stop and think about Brazil, it has a very big characteristic of becoming misfortunes, eh, for example, I remember there was a small crowd with fans, no, yes, but that lady from the

Maracanã rocket house who set off the fireworks and she managed through a tragedy she managed to become earn money get a house landed in Playboy at that time Playboy period other cases that have had misfortunes happen that then the person became having some gain but I don't think so aa Vote the mother no but no I think that here I think that here is another thing that happens here that I think is different from the rocket fire which is the non-solution of the crime the crime that it is open remains open and she doesn't what's

happening is that people are creating versions and that's what feeds these versions exactly and it feeds the debate because you have a missing girl and the person accused of killing her disappeared with her body su su committed suicide Theoretically Theoretically In other words, you don't have It wasn't either, it wasn't confirmed that it was a suicide, the death was confirmed, but I don't even believe it, and now there comes a time when nothing is believed . It's true, she says, look, I think the police stop because you know that investigations have deadlines, they have deadlines

and it's a piece that has to be accepted by the Public Prosecutor's Office, if it's poorly done, they return it Look, this isn't good, redo it. Then the Public Prosecutor's Office returned it And then they're redoing it And then she says, look, in their eagerness to solve a case that hasn't been solved, they created a theory and keep trying to gather information to support this theory, but according to her, it doesn't hold up because, for example, she says, my daughter died murdered by this guy first question prove me ex did she enter this house if

she died the police say she the police say this girl entered the house and how did he get out he raped and killed inside the house and took the body to dump And Then she says, oh, okay, she killed my daughter in there, my daughter came in. So, try a strand of her hair and yes, just a drop of blood, and then the police went there, there's nothing and how did it come out, no, but I don't know, there's none. proof, you know, no one knows , you remember, it's very old, Carlinhos, do you remember

that boy , Carlinhos, who disappeared, he's from the 1970s? Carlinhos, who was a beautiful boy, disappeared in Laranjeiras in Rio de Janeiro until today. Where is Carlinhos, the question remains, every now and then someone appears who looks like what Carlinhos would be today, then yes, he would be more or less like that, unfortunately, Ana Sofia, 8 months old, is time, right? It could be that if TR M but then, for example, there are YouTubers who talk about real crimes, they invest a lot in Ana Sofia because of the audience, I understand, then they talk like

this, oh look tomorrow I'm going to post a video saying that I'm going to prove that the girl they found in Sofia was last seen there Brasa in Brasília Uhum And then, you know, here's the deal and Brazilians like soap operas, right? What's today's episode? loves it so there's a lot of things being fed so next there's another case here of true crime I think there's a man's penis or men exactly Ah, this one right there, that's the one that's coming, that's the one, let's go, that one, it's heated up, right, man? had his penis

amputated by his wife in Atibaia after betrayal suing hospitals for leaking intimate photos gas station attendant was attacked by his wife after she discovered his extramarital relationship with his 15 year old niece guys I forgot his name is it Valdo But the We can't say his name , his name, you can have a photo of him, he gave an interview, okay, I think he can't say it. Gilberto, 39 years old, here we go, here 's what Gilberto's story is: Gilberto's story, yes, he was dating What's the girl's name ? full of glue Exactly my dear

and he was dating this daane he was super in love with her and then daane she has a sister We don't even need to find her name who adopted this 15 year old girl ok And then this 15 year old girl According to him, he started sending him messages on Instagram like oh and so on and he asked what are you doing Oh I'm here flirting look, you're not going to send nudes Oh I already sent them Show me the nudes you sent and she sent them to him So from there he went They went

to WhatsApp and then obviously they started to have a relationship and then the girl started putting pressure on him but you love me when are you going to stay with me and break up with her and he said look I'm never going to break up I'm married I love my wife this is just an adventure like you have the adventures there with the affections on Instagram you send nudes you send the nude And then the girl is not accepting the stump came up with a plan to make the his wife found out said they were,

she was the one who tried, the girl took revenge, wanting, like, one took revenge on everything, according to him, okay, yes, yes, yes, that's it, too, yes, and then the girl took revenge, she goes there and looks for her aunt, first she told the adoptive mother, the mother adopted daughter told her sister that she is his wife Uhum And the circus remained It was set up And then she planned everything and she was extreme the girl leaves the scene the girl just reveals it he takes it she proves the conversations on on on Instagram on

Instagram and on his cell phone sees everything, it's true, he even sees them Sending him some nudes and talum And then he comes up with a revenge plan, makes him dinner for Dayane, Dayane makes dinner for him, pretends she doesn't know anything, pretends she doesn't know anything Guys, she wears a garter, those elastic garters, uhum, at that time, she gives him oral sex, and then she puts on an elastic garter, and she uses them to keep them, uhum, and then she, she's an eyebrow design, she was several things, one of the things that she was

designing her eyebrows, she used a razor And then with that razor she goes there and cuts his penis during this sexual relationship and then she cuts his penis and then tells him why are you doing that, he throws it first, he has his penis in her hand takes a photo post this photo of his penis in the middle a horrible photo because the blood is dripping down her hand And then post it in his family group Look what I did that's why that's why go there and throw the penis in from a toilet he flushes

the toilet And then he gets up bleeding he calls he could die bleeding because he was in tion that's a jet if when she thinks about throwing she thinks like this it's it's it's to eliminate ch he won't have a chance to IMP at the police station she confesses that the police chief thinks Why did you play n to go and not have a chance to implant She thought everything details And then he still tries to ask for help And then she sees a son that she has 18 years old Poor thing, she still got

complicated life because her son went to help and she said It doesn't help, in other words, he's still tangled up now due to omission of help And then he starts bleeding He puts on bleeding shorts, takes the car key so he can run because there's a ura nearby, she takes the key, throws it away so he doesn't go by car and He's walking, oh my God, down the street, he gets there at the UPA and then he tells me, man, the woman cut off my penis and then they start to attend to him and he

said, look, there's no way this type of service can be provided at an UPA, they just keep taking photos, you know, that thing. There is a doctor, the doctor when he wants to be perverse, right, he would take a photo and send it out, they would see him arranging for a blood transfusion there, but when he got home, unusually, there was already a doctor, a friend of mine, doctor who said man some day because, for example, it is very common to arrive at emergency care for men and women with a foreign body because it introduces

it over the year. This is a normal risk, right? It's common and then doctors They do it in doctor's groups. a PET bottle of coca-cola, look, here a wine has arrived, I don't know what sang de boinha deoc And then they go, the more unusual it is, they put it there, look, hi Fi Man, this is very unethical and they did this, look, now it's arrived here at UPA is from Atibaia, a guy arrived here and went to Santa Casa, the only place where he was transferred, he was transferred. He arrived at Santa Casa, from

Arbia. again of the guy, you know, the doctors were doing doctor nurse nursing technician and then his blood is stagnant, this photo here and with his face, not without his face, it's without his face, but it went with the identification with the link to the article that it came out on jent I understand I understand this photo here is very funny this photo here he is there at Beto Ribeiro he went to give an interview to Beto Ribeiro and so I told you Beto the guy didn't just lose he ended up like he still has

a Probe he still has here practically bleeding because things take a long time to heal, right ? which he couldn't do because there are two types of penis prosthesis, one older and cheaper but which remains in erection all the time, it's a very strange thing and another which he can use to control the erection, so he has to control how this erection has a pump, if it were a pump exactly which is under his control because the common and cheaper prosthesis doesn't have the entire foot and And you have to, it's almost as if it

were a frame that you have to try to mold but it tends to mold, it's as if it were a wire that You're going to use it, you're going to stretch it, not down, understand this second one, you bring it as close to reality because then he has the firecracker and that's really what he got . The doctor got action the last time I talked to him he said he needed it, it 's not just a medical team, there has to be a nephrologist, there has to be a plastic surgeon, there has to be a

urologist, there has to be an anesthesiologist, to make up a whole team there and he needed it. waiting he already got the prosthesis But he was waiting for others in fact he still doesn't have the pro he got it he got it but he hasn't implanted it yet so today he still doesn't have a penis he doesn't have a penis ok now there's something very interesting which is an article that talks about that he forgave her and then I was left with this doubt ISO then an article came out that denied it and then it

came back and he didn't forgive there was an interview with him and then he said that eh he speaks first so I even ask Do you miss her I feel that she She was very affectionate, we loved her and so on, we loved her but I was with the girl there too, you know, but then he says, are you thinking about visiting there ? This Forgiveness controversy became, he gave an interview in which he talks about whether he would forgive her and then he says in this interview that it's not for me, it's that it's

not up to him, but that he would be able to forgive so he can feel good because he he says no, they are very religious They are super religious and he says that sometimes it is important to forgive so he doesn't dwell on it and then His lawyers Hers are trying to relax her prison saying look he even forgave and then he came back feeling n none of this means he can go down in jail uhum because sometimes this word forgiveness has two meanings but I understood what he said from what you're saying is forgiveness

like I want to forgive to forget ISO so that it won't be a burden anymore For me to free her, yes, it's not to free him, if there is someone who forgives, it's God, even he says it very well in the interview I did with him, he says it like this, look for example, this forgiveness that I gave her is to get rid of my mind. idea of ​​Revenge so now the way it's forgiven not forgiving for what she did to him is because there is the word forgiveness it is even used as an excuse

even many people use forgiveness instead of sorry, right I step on your foot. Forgiveness is one thing, it is synonymous with sorry You're forgiven, ok, you're not going to hit me because I stepped on your foot, now forgiveness like that, that religious forgiveness, that forgiveness where you almost absolve the person that the Bible says, look, forgive, right? No, that's not it. Uh, like, I don't want to see this woman in front of me, not even painted It's logical that the lawyers are trying to take advantage of this to be able to alleviate it, I understand

perfectly well, he wants to take that away from him, right, so as not to feed something bad, but not that he forgives here he uses it this forgiveness that he gave her to his wife, she uses it to forgive her mother, uhm, because her mother has all that history, she says, look, hey, he put all that out there, it's just that when she wants it, when she's going to marry ma Matsunaga, she needed her family, right, how are you going to get married and who? Where's your family and then she comes back and forgives and

her mother says oh, I knew you would forgive me and she says that, look, I haven't forgotten what you did to wounds they remain open but I need to forgive for my life to move forward I can't stay stuck in that stay stuck in that but she says so I that doesn't mean that I don't approve of what you did or didn't contaminate me didn't contaminate me yes but I want to move on, it destroyed my life , right, exactly, but I want to move on, even the book argues that her life breaks in a

way that cannot be repaired from then on. So there is no way for the woman to forgive what she Didn't even have it Sorry, look at us Now we're receiving a lot of questions, let's start opening up the PR questions, so just to remember, first we have to thank Estúdio Flow who welcomed us here in São Paulo on the first pod people's adventure on the road which this week is São Paulo and we also have to remember that the most interesting question will win out of all three, the three most interesting ones will win first

according to our criteria here that we will write down without a necklace from the other the name of the person another and a box of murderous women along with the dangerous mind and then happiness and Dangerous Minds So let's go and ask the questions Thank you, good evening, let's go, I have a lot of questions here, remembering that whoever is selected in the draw must send the e-mail us with all the data so we can send the box and the books, ok, exactly, folks, don't forget to send the e-mail so we can access it and

you can give us all the details, ok, the e-mail is pod people official@gmail.com we will put it here in the chat pinned there so everyone can see it, perfect, let's go first question Luciana Maia asks ulices in the park maniac's book we will have the parallel stories of the men's prison he didn't go through the test and evaluations because he refused to choose to leave without progression no yes no so there will be parallel stories because I think this ended up becoming a trademark there people like it a lot eh there will be there will

be parallel stories of other serials that are identical to it some people who they even imitated him uhum And they were inspired by him, right? They were inspired by him, right? Now, in relation to the park maniac, he was sentenced to more than two centuries in prison, so for you to progress from Too bad you have to serve a sixth first but he will complete 30 years in prison before that is the maximum before he gets to have this type of benefit so it is 2028 he leaves in 2028 but the first progression he would

have in 2050 and something I understand So it doesn't even fit in there, it doesn't fit in. The court will still explain it to me, I've already scheduled an interview for them to explain to me. How is this release given ? There's a lot of buzz right now about the discussion about the end of night outs, right ? they ended, it reduces for me the discussion was over or not over, exactly it wasn't supposed to be like that but it ended up being, it's because oo that's it, that's it, that's going to give a lot

of trouble to me because it's a right-wing project and the government is now from the left and the on the left it is more linked to human rights which is the basis of the government and the left is very linked to the human rights movement so there is no such thing as that, regardless of your ideological current there is no such thing as a prisoner like a maniac from the park or Suzan, anyone else Nardon turns 30 or just turns 30, I don't know what he opens and leaves, there's no way you can open this

person, he needs to leave the dropper first, for example, the son killed his brother And then he turned 30 and then he goes When he turns 30, he gets the benefit, why are we going to let him out? Because if you wait for him to complete his sentence and throw him home, you don't know if the family will welcome him, the family will welcome him, the mother will welcome the son who killed the other. her son, but then when you let him out on a day out, which is a festive date that they are there

celebrating, the prison's social assistance calls and then he was well accepted. Look, he was well accepted. So, okay. That is, when the door to the penitentiary door opens definitively for this prisoner, she knows that he will be welcomed, it's not with a test with every protocol, a criminological test, she goes on the first outing to see if he is resocialized, if he hasn't been involved in a crime again, the mother, when she is an assistant exactly in social assistance, when she calls her mother, Mom says look, don't send him back home anymore because now he

tried to kill his other brother and then she cancels his little outing, that is, she has this purpose that people were very shocked oh, what's the outing for? That's what you're for. You may not even be using it for that, but it was made for that, test, right? Look, I already liked this question, I already marked a star, Luciana Maia too, hi, so candid, I put the theme here too, next, mami, a super chat now from Otávia Melo liis When are you going to launch the audiobooks with Beto's narration success in ca Otávia Otávia Melo

is Otávia Mel looking forward to the maniac's book, it's going to be my birthday present this year, great and when she has a birthday she doesn't say Otávia tells us here how much you do and does it have a birthday Otávia why are you going coming out in August at the latest in September is I feel exceptional Otávio I hope Beto isn't listening to us But there's already the audiobook of the Three books with other voices that are also very cool, they're not the ones in that traditional narration, it's because Beto's voice There's aud of

all three, how cool, how cool, Elise Matsunaga's audiobook is amazing, it's scary, there's a drama interpretation there, there's that little song, right? And where can we get these audiobooks ? When you buy it online and there is also the possibility of audio, they are even cheaper, they are in audio, right? There is no digital version and there is audio, aud audiobook, that's right, another question, edinilsa Souza, I wanted to know if someone you know gets involved emotionally with the killer like man like the maniac in the park Suzane also has this mind like them this

murderous mind like them these questions just for me because I think the answer come on you talk I want to hear the talk tell your point of view more complex Look I always like to make the following clear, I'm a journalist so when I have these very specific questions, always according to someone who told me or the Guido Palomba , who I have a lot of contact with, so they say that one attracts the other, right ? This person is healthy, I think so, yes, I think you were perfect in this placement because it may

not be the same but they have compromised mental health or disorders that feed back or similar or that feed back even more, there is another layer, even more so a woman wanting to get involved with a man who is in prison, convicted of having killed a series of women, in other words, that was his target audience out mul é Yeah But then there's a personality profile of women who, uh, think that a guy who's in prison won't have access to no other woman So she thinks she already has exclusivity, but that 's regardless of the

crime he committed, right? the bridge to the world so he will love me feed back her desire to be love exclusive exclusive And in addition Many of them T that thing I am the Savior with me will be different I will change him no but but we know that this way he can have others people but her head but then let me give you a spoiler from the book that helps you expand this analysis, let's go in BR Brazil in Brazil the prisoners The right to an intimate visit has a whole set of criteria, right,

a woman comes here who I'm going to fuck you, you don't have to have a stable relationship criterion to declare that you arrive with a marriage certificate. If you can prove that you have a stable relationship, men and women, you can enter the prison on visiting days and have sex. There's even a room for that, uh, in case of the Park maniaco, he started dating a woman from Santa Catarina and then they, as a visitor, first dated through letters, then they declared there that they were dating, then he gave him a power of attorney at

the registry office and declared that they were going to get together. get married What for To have an intimate visit when he got there to the judge the judge said don't even think if this guy was killing a woman in the middle of the woods while having sex with her how am I going to let a woman Enter an intimate visit room with a man who of a woman who killed during sex, so like, no, right, judge. You had common sense, because the woman is practically offering herself, I'm sorry, the woman who did this, but

she's offering to enter voluntarily, but look, this woman is not a person. mentally healthy Because she thinks that with her it will be different because I don't know she has that she will change he is like and there will be a Marco there I was the only woman he had in his head so now it's pure guesswork I think this woman is so disturbed emotionally that she can't even find it, she can't discern it, you know, you know, illiterate Maybe it's a disturbance to think that with her it will be different, you know what I'm

saying, I'm talking about the same things that you're seeing in the hell, we're talking about the same thing about the different point of view but I 'll tell you something I think it's the type of for example I'm responding with uhum Yes of course but I'll tell you one thing this judge was amazing yes now if I can give you some advice run away without looking back away run if you have a chance not to get into this game the guy said in several interviews and in the tests that the panel at the Clinic hospital

says I'm a force that I can't exactly control If I leave here I'll do it again because this is beyond my capacity and as you know, I agree, I agree, it's like, look, come here and I'll rob you, you go there, right? There isn't, and there are some dysfunctionalities, mainly affective, yes, you think it's going to be a miracle, a little star, let's put a star for her , look, I put three stars for her, Edmund, Edil, Edil is and is linked to the relationship with a psychopath, anyway, exactly something like that I think it's

interesting Sometimes the interesting question is when she asks the question it doesn't seem interesting but she raises it, it brought us It's here to do and think that's why I scored ISS I scored two little stars you're already giving cheating to the public we vote for your little stars don't do ISS that you I'm not cheating No I didn't talk about my little stars you two didn't but I liked it that way. mine and the po's thoughts It's exactly like this, it's bringing something that makes us think about a discussion here that opens up much

more but let me tell you there's no point in that we're not competing, we're going to have to come to a consensus, exactly there will be what to say, okay, but then we don't need to say it in public, we're going to say it here truthfully to create excitement, exactly, you're giving spoilers, okay, people are enjoying this discussion here, only competitive people, it's not exactly, let's go, Lívia Lucas, one question that I also always wanted to ask Dr. Bia Is there a prevalence of certain mental disorders that are different according to cultures or historical moments

Certainly how the history of crimes has this component Certainly Lívia because then there is no way for us to separate when we even talk about a psychopath, let's assume not always The Psychopath is a non-psychopath, he doesn't commit a crime, he does, but when we talk about this, in addition to the genetic character of the biological character, there is the social character, there is the character, of the time, that they can serve as triggers identity group movement that leads to this you say 100% one thing you have This involvement is time and social values ​​there

are things that will not be considered crimes in a while or there are things that were once like in the empire Yes, pedophilia was castration at the time of Dom Pedro I, and today things are much softer, so everything has to have a history of time, okay, I thought this one was very well prepared, very cool, I liked it too, but there's no need to say no, there's no need to say nudes. stars that I gave, ok No need, because now I too I started using another criterion too, I won't say mine any more, well,

let's go next mi Pâmela Santos for ulices Which of the Three books required the most work in the investigation um or FL de l certainly now I would say that the maniac's case, the more people involved in the crime, the more work the maniac requires , for example, there are four trials, let's take it into account. Feathers But it's just one piece Eliz's is one Flor de Liis's is three there's four but Maniaco's is more people so it's more work but Da's is more work because there's more time This one was more elaborate I think

too It's very complex because it's very complex that ooo of the maniac I believe that he has been like this for a while there are a lot of parts involved but the structure forms I think it tired you much more than the month That's true the stories of women respecting each person's individuality each one But they are very similar ISO he is Li El's flower she she created a plot a story there PR you when you were reading the book rubbish flower is rubbish flower there is also another detail that I increasingly find myself I

improve too, right? So now the organization is better, perfect Pâmela de Lis, it's unbeatable if you haven't read it Read it, then you'll understand Cristiane Nunes Is there a crime that impressed you to the point of making you lose sleep, people, I'm already losing sleep because people He doesn't even have time to live, right? It's not because he gets an adrenaline rush when he writes, sleep disappears, you know, and it clicks there, he can't stop because and if you're in that story you stay, right? And there's something about going to bed and falling asleep and

not being able to. because you're mentally tired and it keeps passing But I think I understand what Cristiane is trying to say, no, it's not sleep there, she brought the story of sleep, but I think that what you know, brought something that disturbed you, messed with you, spent yours energy I think when and it's more of the popular saying what happened that took your sleep away but I think what kind of story suddenly you didn't get involved but it took more energy I don't know if it did make an impression but there's another one detail

As you give him a lot with it, it also falls into the common, it could be po At first I was terrified with nowadays, no, no more, it's getting more, I think it's creating a shell because there's one thing, if you keep getting this too much on your skin, you don't live properly anymore, right ? social life But it's interesting the ulices you bring with you to each story you bring an emotion something like that you know as if you lived there but I think I'm just one I think so I think I'm just the

channel this story It's exciting, I'm going to go here, I'm going to touch it so I can serve it, but I think what's moving is the story and it's also emotional. It depends on the person who receives it and it depends on what moves you or your life the most Oh, what you said at the beginning, maybe with identifications, yes, maybe that does. Sometimes people are more sensitive to one thing than another, there are people who, when it involves a child, already C. Exactly, there are people when it involves an animal, it's convenient. Exactly, exactly.

Is there any place that moves you, right ? trilogy which aspect of the human mind are you most fascinated with exploring through writing and how this influences your narratives I really like Revenge crimes I think revenge is a fuel I find crimes that would be of passion interesting, for example of the fire aunt who is the one who kills her husband because that well-elaborated Revenge that even has motivations that you understand because the story of the fire aunt is like that she was a thin girl and then she married another athletic man and then she

won an overweight And then as she had an eating disorder and her husband started to humiliate her, she understood humiliation so you didn't believe it, then one fine day she gets tired of it, goes there and sets him on fire, ties him to the bed and sets him on fire, then aa way how she builds this Revenge the motivations you end up practically saying even I would do the same thing that this woman did but I wouldn't do it if I could talk you would leave I would pack your bag no I wouldn't if I

were her if it were me I wouldn't do it right no yes yes One thing that I realized would make my bag and although it's clear in our first meeting, it could be my perception, we talked about the three cases of trology But what I noticed is that you make your mouth water like that when you talk and so on. I noticed more in Elise, I don't know if it's because of that story that the two had at various times a Revenge in Fleur de Lis, I also notice that but I think you had more

complements, I think there's more empathy, so I think more of the empathy of the character's character but for example I think that Suzane killed let's talk about the trilogy Suzane killed her father and mother to get money for me she had zero empathy, zero empathy for Elise Matsunaga and she had a very good life Suzane had a very good life, if she hadn't committed what she committed, she would be a brilliant lawyer, for example, yes, of course, Elise Matsunaga, she comes from a life history in which you are already the stepfather, the relationship with the

mother, the relationship with the mother the way she was very humiliated in prostitution uhum the way he led her in a certain way sometimes yes yes and o And then she and o Not to mention that Marcos was a trash man Right the rituals he provided also that you We have to put it in the balance Whoever died he gave her a lot of weapons, not horrible things, he subjected her to horrible things So I think it's this narrative that we just talk about here and the person is like, I don't want to know more

about this woman, right? I want to know more about that. story we are proving because this way I think anyone can take their suitcase and it's but what I think we brought here is what he likes the most and what he likes to work on and seek to understand more because Do you like the crimes more like Revenge, which is a revenge that you're not supporting, oh guys, come on, no, it's not that, but I think it builds a narrative that justifies it more understandably, there's one thing that It's a lot that people take a

lot into consideration when talking about criminology now. For example, when you go to a jury trial, what weighs very, very, very heavily when you're being tried is the motivation for the crime, certainly because you killed exactly after which comes as because in what way it was but the first thing is because you killed exactly And then when you put the why you killed of the three I think the most acceptable thing about Eliz none is acceptable understand but when we organize it It's more understandable I think yes it is unacceptable unacceptable but it is more

understandable you put yourself in the person's place and you understand the motivation motivation What is this person's name I want to give it Gabriela Gabria she talks about human minds and what drives you and And then you said that they are the crimes of Revenge of Revenge that's right next Lívia Lucas the question I always wanted to ask Dr Bia says What are the constructions of childhood that transform or initiate a person into psychopathy Do any of them have a Some of them have a happy childhood look There may be many psychopaths who tell lies

about their childhood to justify it, right? This has even been seen in soap operas, right? And Caminho das Indias, which is Ivone, said that her mother, okay, okay, when she went to see her mother, she lived in an asylum that she didn't even go to. There, visit, so, yes, there are psychopaths, they will have difficult childhoods, others that don't exist, some that will have triggers, OK, but what is important is that whether this history is difficult or not, the crime is unjustifiable, unjustifiable, an example that the ulis brought from Suzane Suane had a life, a

very peaceful, very good life and she did what she did, she didn't have anything in her childhood that could justify it, so we have to take some away from it. This is a somewhat romanticized thing. This is a very Man view, which is what comes from cinema and TV, exactly exactly which is a disservice because then the criminal himself creates a narrative, I did this because my mother, because my father, because my uncle, who there may be, but that is not decisive, we have had it for a long time and in the issue of domestic

violence, especially with children, oh every child who has suffered abuse will be a reproducer of violence, this has already fallen to the ground, we have already been shown that It's not like that, many times he wants to scream and fight so that this never happens again, but for a while, for a long time, this happened, saying that ooo today's Violent he was the one who was raped yesterday, not the other way around, for example, the one who was raped yesterday wasn't It's not very violent today, but most of the time they fight against it, they

want to win, they want to scream, they want to show it in society. That's what they want to get out of their situation in a way, it's environmental genetics, that's environmental genetics, genetics, environmental genetics, right? That's exactly what that thesis means is that a child who is raised in a home where the father beats the mother and everything is normalized That boy will become violent with his girlfriend as an adult or not or not or not is not decisive but generally who is that I was the opposite was that or not Or not, right but

generally who is violent today was No, no, look. It's simple, if every person who has been sexually abused, sexual abuse is much more common than we imagine, it's much more common, and he would become a rapist, we don't go out on the street anymore, yes, I can go to school, no, that's a myth, yes, and often from the person who suffered violence, many times like this, what can bring about in him not a reproduction of that but a fent against that against that, exactly this is much more common, ex I always thought but it was

pure guesswork, I always thought that that student Zinho, that teenager who comes home from school and says to his father, so-and-so at school hit me, go and hit him, he goes and hits me, I think he was oblivious to forming a non-abusive future, but a future, a personality depends on that child's personality, if that child already has one there this father's genetics because a father gives advice like that, let's agree that it's from Thursday because this father He's exempting himself from responsibility and starting to take action not to hit the child, but it's happening, he's

taking the responsibility away from him and putting it on his son, putting it like this, they hit each other and they sort it out and they sort it out, no, I liked the question. P Look, we have two lvi, there's Lívia first and Lívia Lucas, but we also had a Lívia, we hadn't written about n Lívia, no Lívia Lucas asked two questions, it's the same Lívia, look, Lívia and I'll tell you, you asked two questions a lot because the first one was about previl she got in line twice twice and with two interesting questions It's

next Pedro meriguet do you think Mig Mig do you think Marcos' dismemberment was a fictional way for Elise to deal with death as well as she did a fictitious way with the hunted animals, I think he wanted to understand if she was inspired, right? If she learned to do that and then she reproduced that Repeat the question, please, do you think Marcos' dismemberment was a way, ah, sorry, fetishists, feti, ah fetishist fetishist now everything has changed about Elise dealing with death just as she did with hunted animals I think there's a lot of things to

do with it, our Pedro there are two things that Elise's butchering personality She is formed one is a combination of things one in prostitution, her profession is also not first in prostitution, because in prostitution, the person, the woman, in order to prostitute herself, needs to create an emotional distance . whose mouth she is not interested in ex so in prostitution she is forced to kiss and have sex So she does this the exercise of prostitution for a very long time they themselves say this we one there told me look I have a switch I turn

on the emotion disappears I turn off the emotion comes back because I'm married I love my husband I'm going to prostitute myself the button stays back and forth so she had this emotional distance because she dismembered the man she said she loved went up to the Altar anyway she already had this distance aa second thing that this is not enough for her to quarter it she needed technique because quartering there are people who can't take a chicken and treat the chicken, cut the outside, they can't she knew, she learned this in the she learned this

the techniques on where to make the cuts in the scrub nurse course, it's a nursing technique course , participating in and comp surgeries involving cuts, I forgot the name of that surgery they did in the past that made a cut here, they put this one, they told me that they don't have that anymore today, they do it with another technique, but there is a retractor that they cut here to access the organs here without opening it here and she started to see this And then she started repeating this and then she went to Canada to

practice sport hunting with Marcos and they hunted medium-sized animals like elk cero and they had to quarter it themselves because you couldn't leave it there you couldn't leave it there and the quartering there too you follow a criteria you won't cut the animal anyway And then she uses this so I think she takes the course, right, first to learn how to quarter and separate everything and leave it because you can't leave the animal there. Honestly, I think that Canada, with this thing, sorry, my son, no, so then I think that the is one of the

elements that made it, I mean , the technique of hunting animals is one. one I think there was everything there I think there was a combo there, right a combo a lot I killed now like me now that I had this situation I'm going to use what I learned to get rid of this situation I don't agree, I don't think so No, man, why do you get rid of a body? God be praised, because that's how I. Including her lawyer's thesis when he asks why she's in quarters. Jou Ah, because I learned her F. He

says he needs to get rid of the body. people, the coldness, the desperation that you killed someone like that, including her, she goes to the phone and tries to call, I can't get through. Then I thought about my daughter, but I think it's also difficult for us to analyze our skin, but I think I had to do it In her, a great desperation didn't hit hmm And then she had this coldness of dismemberment So and Guido Palomba says this, man, if she were if she had a person with common sense, if she had there the

basic emotions that we all have in the first cut She stopped No, that's not it, I'm going to give myself up because she ended up confessing, people, she confessed, but I think Pedro is right, there was a feti component, there was a feti al I totally agree, close to me Otávia Melo Once again, she sent a super chat Otávio had it here in up now Oh and just complementing this thing about his fetish is that she leaves cutting off his head for last, that's why the fetish is on, the feti is also on, exactly I'm

going to give it one more star because of that Otávio Melo is already Otávio Melo was the second Otávia Otávia Otávia she only said the audiobook the first time that's right if it already had it, it's ul what would your badness index be like putting a manic ranking putting a manic rank of the park I think he meant podium he meant podium yeah Ah it's not the podium, oh the podium of evil, it's your index ranking the park's maniac, the monster from Rio Claro, the vampire from Niterói, Francisco das Chagas and the Monster from Morumbi,

look, hey, Our Otávia did some research, huh, but then, but then I'll go to maniac because what I'm the one who studied you know you can't choose a rank only I have you know he knows the Stories of a vision all of them the only one he has is this all I know is what he knows because I didn't research and from everything you've written so far about women ooo Francisco maniac from the park is a serial kil serial kil that we didn't have in these other women So I think it's El I think he

offers a much greater risk to society, right? Certainly, even for the prey he chose. I certainly agree next time . a happy daughter in the middle of something so brutal kisses I love you look I don't know if it changes I don't know if it changes a lot but it's a son, okay it's a son son it's a boy a son it's a boy Felipe isn't the name and to say that a person like Suzan is capable of love no is not capable of loving now how the question is that ob having this child because

a psychopath he needs it he doesn't do anything for nothing he always has someone who will give status power or fun I want to believe that to say that this child It will be loved, I don't think it will be loved, not in the way we understand it, maternal love will be problematic, now there is one thing, this child will have a character, a character, will not have a genetic predisposition that we don't you know how to turn from your mother's father to your grandmother's grandfather That's a melting pot if it's someone who has these

if this boy has some of her genetics maybe he'll suffer less maybe that's the only thing I can say and I don't know I don't know The father, I don't know, I don't know anything, you can talk about what you know, but like having the love in the way that we expect from a mother for a daughter, a son, I think, I think that there she is always in that thing of finding, right, aaa Mayara there It's that thing of thinking like this, now they see a child, she's now going to be a mother because

in this case there were several situations that she used herself, she had a relationship with a woman, then she went to the pro PR people who worked in her defense, she was always searching in a way to change her image, look for Sandrão, she didn't have her goals, as she always had everything in her, she always had an objective, now this type of personality tends to become less aggressive or less dangerous over time, I don't know, I don't know, in her criminological tests concludes that she has camouflaged aggression, so this child will be loved in

the way we expect from a mother, love me, I don't believe it, you know what type, who am I to say whether or not a person has the right to have a child but without Daniel Cravinhos? I did an interview with him and I asked him to his girlfriend at the time, he was married, if you are thinking about having a child, he says no, you don't think about having a child, he even had a vasectomy at the time because he didn't want to go through the embarrassment of having to explain to a child what

he had done happened because nowadays it's the least, right, because there is access to the Internet, this child will have access, she'll Google it, it's like Elise Matsunaga's daughter. She already knows what the mother had an ex She already knows for sure how old her daughter is now 13 13 already knows Oh you know because internet people already know there's no way there's no way not to know and I think she also took advantage of this moment in Suzane's case eh to change the name, right, yes, so I think I keep saying it, I think

it was planned, change, I'm changing my story Now I'm a mother, I'm going to change my name, I'm going to change it, it inspired several others too, right, who are changing their name, changing their name, urge that now It's easy to change the name, which in the past it wasn't, right, not now, it's easy, very easy, next, three more three questions for us to finish here, Jaqueline olib ules, what do you think of the role of Criminal literature in society, can it contribute to education, awareness and prevention and solution of crimes I think it depends

on who is reading it, I think it has a lot to do with whoever reads it, it's on the other side of the book, but I think the biggest function is that of real crimes people, I think that that we talked about at the beginning of you are recording the history of you are creating a profile of a country based on the crimes they commit So I think it's more like this I see it more like this it could be people Read with a different intention for example, I think that a lawyer reads a book

with other objectives, the psychiatrist doctor already law with others, I think it goes to each niche, I also think and the layman too, he may want to take it according to what he may want to understand if this if someone with those characteristics She could and In fact, I think there is a person who may be thinking about committing a crime and will read to see , I think he has everything, right? used, right? I think it's there, everyone takes it and does what they think, according to their nature, their needs and history, right, next

mi Eduarda Rocha, I would like to know if you think that at some historical moment psychopaths will being able to live in society or not hugs for everyone at the ISS studio, a hug for Bia, hi Eduard, I think it's funny that she made a group of psychopaths all united, don't look, eh, no, I don't think it will be possible unless a chip is created that triggers these people's empathic limbic system will be, I don't know, only in fiction, only in Black miror, in Black miror, I think it will, but in real life, I don't

think so. Now, living in society, you're talking about those very serious psychopaths, because a lot of psychopaths already live in society close to us, right, because there is mild, moderate, severe, we already live with many of them, all of the provisions, all of the professions, all of the places, so, be careful, you are not confusing psychopathy with the psychopath who kills, there are a lot of psychopaths with criminals, the vast majority it doesn't kill, but it goes about destroying lives, it kills indirectly, taking life, disgracing life, Son, someone kills someone's life, that's the last question

Adriana Lidi Adriana Lidiane ulices how do you protect yourself so as not to absorb so much heavy energy I think I've already answered it, right? talked about it, oh, I think I created a shell because my profession was like this all my life, but I think there's something cool about you that you go there as an agent who will mediate information, it's in a process that people don't have access and they're going to scrutinize and pass it on to their reader, what they're going to do is the reader is now there's one thing that I

always hit the button on if all this energy hits me, first of all I won't have an exemption for being able to write that, right, to be done because you're discharging emotion into your work, it's not good, you have to be a neutral technician and it's neutral exactly and also, but for example, I'm not shocked by the crimes of the maniac in the park because I read it. the first one Wow, I read the second one uhum but then, for example, we don't even know if we said it here live or before we started that

what's going on What shocks me is the questions that were asked to talk about we talked about before we talked during the questions asked women survivors now I understand so it's kind of like that people but this shocks more than the crime by Inc that seems like that because the crime is no longer and even a serial killer his crime is repeated in a ritualized way So you are shocked at first, you are not CH and you already understand his dynamics, you know that how it is done Look, I understand, the impact has also passed,

right, I read that there, you see the photos, guys That hit me, but now I don't know if it's because I was seeing it yesterday, I was very indignant, I took the print out and sent it to the lawyers, man, how does a judge ask a question like that, look, take into consideration the time when that was beauty, but in a little while there will be a question so inappropriate that I said guys this here is timeless this here neither there nor now nor ever this was this would be this would be done first that

she doesn't want it doesn't lead to solving a crime no ex exactly anyway but like this, I understand what you're saying, I think what changes what shocks me tomorrow, I may be shocked by something else , yes, it depends on what we're seeing, but according to the moment and what focus we 're in because you already I had understood the dynamics of the crime of the maniac's crimes, but not the treatment that was given to the victims who survived. that he didn't even need it anymore because there was already a lot of it. It was

already repeating itself because everything is the same, there's no difference. It just changes the clothes they were wearing and it starts that he had a standard of women until oo their appearance was kind of similar and then oo I think the prosecutor tells her but because you didn't go to the police station to tell her, she said because I didn't want to go through what I'm going through here, that's more or less, you know, the woman in a courtroom is reliving it all over again, that's what I even wanted. until I take the opportunity and

say this, out of professional and moral obligation, I'm not even going to name these women because they've already been through that, I respect it, on the day of the attempted crime, they were victims of a crime, they went over it in the trial, which is 2 3 years later and even more so now that these women are married with children, it's not because it's documented, you know you're being ethical, it's right, doing what they did to them in the past again, no, they don't deserve it, you're being ethical there. Already starting there, that's it, let's

not, I don't even want to know the names of these women, but they have all the support, you have to have that, that's cool, that's cool, I even talked to one of them who is making a documentary about Mania do because she said Look, if you want to put my name, then put it because I gave an interview for the documentary, I said my love, I'm not going to put your name, right? Because when you're giving a documentary, you're choosing what you want the public to know. and the process goes into detail Because you don't

need it, you have this power to choose what you want to be published and what you don't want and if you do, you can put my name there, I'm referring to a statement that you I'm sure you don't want this exposed Exactly exactly perfect You haven't lost your sensitivity, congratulations, congratulations, because they kept asking how you can do it You haven't lost your sensitivity, but I think in relation to Crime, that's a lot of questions, I understand, I understand. perfectly last it was already like this there is one last one that I think it's cool

for us to say that they Cristiane da Cruz she asks for advice what advice would you give to society that crime doesn't pay Oh just look at the pains of all these people it's I don't know and neither do you. It was on the one hand Logical, right? I'm kind of like that, eh What idea would I have of myself, you know, what a shame, what a lack of peace of mind, I don't know, I don't think, people, you know, I keep thinking about the life of A person who commits a crime is very exposed

because imagine let's do your criminological exam and then they go back to your childhood They'll find out everything you did and then they'll do the big thing but come here Ulisses now you now You were naive, everything that a person who is capable of committing a crime like that with such friesa wants is the media, but then you don't understand and you're proud of what they did, but then no, but calm down. to crimes, there is a huge repercussion in this crime thing, it pays off, I'm even talking about you guys, just going to a

police station is, I think it's embarrassing for you to be interrogated, you know, it's embarrassing, depending on the type of crime, it's humiliating, I agree, so if you can choose, I think We're not even going to close the crime, like we opened it, or the deadbeat tape nobody because you commit a little crime on a blog there with a deadbeat tape nobody like that doesn't make up for it, people don't make up for it. You went there and bought a list of clothes so you wouldn't have to pay 700 900 But then you have your

reputation exposed on a crime blog it pays off but I'm sure she never thought it would be exposed so then because the person who does this always thinks so but I was going to put that counterpoint myself because now it's controversial but then I think that there are statistics that say that 10% of crimes are solved, yes in total in total % in Brazil in Brazil it's not when I say it's not solved it didn't even become an investigation, right it didn't become You don't even know, you could be robbed on the street Uhum And

you didn't go to the police station to file the complaint and it was just my cell phone, it won't be enough, I'll have to buy another one. Is it insured for that guy, the crime It paid off, yes, so until this one talked about the crime, no It pays off, I think this is a Utopia for the majority, it pays off now if I can advise Don't commit a crime, that's the cons As mine says, As my grandmother said, the devil helps you do it but he doesn't help you hide it, I think when we

talk crime doesn't pay, we 're in that naivety of thinking how do we tell a child, my son doesn't do that, I've already tried it and it won't do any good, but I think the person who commits to committing a crime is what I wanted. If I could ask myself a question in the sense, what would you like today as a dream for us to change public policies, the legal way of seeing things because I think that many of the things that still happen in our Brazil It's because you know it won't come to anything,

I don't bet so much anymore, I want social changes, but I think that if we don't understand ourselves as human beings and that we came here to evolve and to come out better than we came in, it won't happen. having no public policy then I'm more into it, right? I think that then we'll have a little more knowledge of self-knowledge of philosophy, we're here to be better, not to be worse, and if we commit something, we'll try to change, but truly change, why not? It's going to be, it's not going to be within a chain

that I see. Think about it, we always go to the media, that's what they saw. And now we have to choose the best one, right? better no First let's make the following suggestion we each write down which one is the best and then say it out loud and it's great for us to see what the first one I've already chosen mine I'm not going to choose just one Which is the best of all esc each one chooses one and then we talk out loud mine is better than that, don't worry, just one first write it

down then show it to the camera, no, I can't, I don't say everything, I say no, because everything is okay, let him choose his I've already chosen my first, the first, only one, each will choose only one, a first, everyone can, everyone has already chosen, right, esc, the first, okay, I was Pedro, I was Edil Ed, Edimila, I confess that you have to confess, it was up to you to choose, I already chose who it is. ready, edmilsa is also, so edmilsa won, she was the first, the first, won women, which are two Box one,

one comb receives this one with Dangerous Minds together with danger mind and now we will choose who will receive happiness and one danger mind, this Edil received the two, that's it, edmila, you're getting these two, the two of them here, according to who you had put Pedro in. Pedro is my second, mine, too, he's already been the first, so it's not the second edms, oh right, and my third, wait, calm down, take the book. PED Fade Pedro Pedro happiness is there Pedro and now the third the third I went at Lívia Lucas I went to

L too, that's it, everyone agreed, there wasn't a fight, there wasn't a fight, people, it was all like that, just a change, no one here was, Of course, I did it, just the chair for the three of them was going to be between the three, even for me, sign the book for me. they see Give me this one, that's Pedro's Come on, look here, the box, that's Edmilza é edilsa edilsa sola Prila Souza P Ah yes, wait, Pedro Pedro is Come on, edilsa Pedro and Lívia send the email to us with all the information so

we can send the book there I'm going I'm going to autograph mine in the cuchia because there are three there are three oeds it's with d mute or with it's because I want to check her name NSA d mudo with m or with med it's nin in de ship n de ship ship ililsasa Ed edmilsa edmilsa This is Lívia and it's not hers can you also put the link as to why this one goes with the one that is there can you put the blog link in the description of the video can you put it

now of course there is Stories post this and now here and Lívia some specific article or like all that I sent to Lívia I think it's the column as a whole that will have to be posted from today to the most recent from here when you watch the video here It's been down there for a while now, don't you think? I think it's the one I sent from the opening of the blog that always appears because I think it ages a lot, for example when someone watches it in a year's time. the man who doesn't

have a dick already has a dick, it's true, it makes sense, it makes sense, God willing, right, dear people in Sofia, God willing, have you found it? Who knows, I have faith, dear, we're closing another pod people And today it was live here in São Paulo, we did this pod people project out there, right on the road that was in São Paulo, we had the honor of having here ulic Camp that needs no introduction, we learned a lot, if you don't follow this man, please follow, that's all He makes the books, they are wonderful, stay

tuned, his book will be released in August or early September at the latest and don't forget, like, share, like, if you're not following us, start following us and it's also appearing there where you can find the books there on Instagram @ crimes doob Brasil and there is also his blog Sensacional in the newspaper Globo true crimes is worth it you will always be informed and well informed because this guy what he says we can trust we sign below thank you very much and see you next pod people live also this week kiss