this is not what they're telling us we can start to heal some of these chronic lifestyle conditions that are so rampant with tiny doses of this it's like opening a window of opportunity for somebody to completely change their life Dr Tina Moore is a distinguished naturopathic physician whose groundbreaking work is leading the way in combating some of the biggest diseases in medical conditions that our modern world currently faces everyone's saying that OIC is evil this is the worst thing ever but a lot of people are being overdosed for weight loss and this leads to a
very high risk for side effects but o done correctly has all these other benefits that have nothing to do with weight loss and they are just mind-blowing healing and reversing type 1 diabetes Parkin and Alzheimer's we've got studies showing really positive impacts on depression and anxiety and potentially reducing cancer risks it shifts your gut microbiome to a more favorable microbiome and then my daughter PCOS symptoms reverse which is probably one of the number one drivers of infertility in young women I mean holy sh and I've seen it with my patients and I've seen it with
myself cuz I lived with chronic pain my whole life and I Remember by the end of 2021 thinking if this doesn't get better I think I'm going to kill myself but I started myself at a tiny little dose and the destruction fell away Dr Tina Mo what would you scream to the world right now we are eating a chemical storm of a food supply young women are bathing in toxic chemicals through their beauty habits microbiome disruption from all the antibiotics I joke that humans are going extinct but I think it's really happening if we don't
write this ship but there's things we can do that are non-negotiable that have nothing to do with drugs your six pillars for a pain-free life yes first of all I would congratulations diio gang we've made some progress 63% of you that listen to this podcast regularly don't subscribe which is down from 69% our goal is 50% so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor and hit the Subscribe button it helps this channel more than you know and the bigger the channel
gets as you've seen the bigger the guest get thank you and enjoy this [Music] episode Dr Tina more who are you by profession and what is the mission that you're on so I'm a naturopathic physician and a chiropractor I don't know if you have naturopathic Physicians here in the UK we are trained formally in a four-year medical program and we take national board exams North American I should say and we are taught root cause medicine so the functional medicine Community basically appropriated our medicine many years ago if you've heard of functional you've had doctors on
there are functional medicine practitioners and it's the idea that the body can heal itself we are looking to restore homeostasis in the individual so why are things arai I'm less interested in someone's diagnosis as much as I am why are they presenting with that symptom picture what's going on and I was mentored up by one of the finest naturopathic physicians in our profession over the past many decades and he died of cancer in 2013 and I took over his practice he was a force to be reckoned with so I carry that flag with me and
he was a truth tell and he was often ostracized by our profession for being ahead of the game and you know being ahead of the story usually and I learned so much from him about metabolic health and how metabolic Health was really the root cause driver of so many diseases life style induced diseases that we're seeing in on a worldwide level can you give me just a bit of a glimpse and for someone that's never heard the term naturopathic physician before which which I guess means naturopathic doctor right what is the difference between like a
normal doctor and a naturopathic doctor so a traditional allopathic physician is what you're going to be familiar with with an MD they're trained in a system where algorithmically they are taught to find disease processes and then they have a stand of care that they follow which is to prescribe X Y and Z yeah for the standard of care and that's not how they always were naturopathic medicine was born out of old timey European MDS so back in Germany and you know long time ago when we didn't have all the fancy lab tests and we didn't
have all the fancy Pharmaceuticals we were treating people to bolster their health really you know it's taking you as an individual finding out what makes Mak you tick and then how can we optimize your health overall symptoms and illness Falls away when you treat the body when you treat the individual in front of you so I don't treat diseases I treat people that's the difference whereas in allopathic medicine they are very obsessed with the diagnosis and then what pills do we apply to that diagnosis which is different than why is this person presenting this way
and what can we do to help them along the Journey of optimizing their health so those symptoms fall away and you you said you took over a clinic there yeah what kind of patients do you see in that practice did you see in that practice and what was the sort of variety of illness or disorder or disease that you came across so his practice was predominantly muscular skeletal medicine so it was uh chronic joint dysfunction and he did a specialized type of medicine called Prolotherapy and regenerative injection therapies the modern version of that is stem
cells you've probably heard of stem cell injections I'm sure everyone has by this point plate rich plasma is another one and that's what he specialized in but it's not just about shooting fancy substances into people's joints you have to get the person into a healing State first so you need them optimized so that they want to heal so that means hormones that means nutrition that means lifestyle those things are far more critical to get lined up than it is to start shooting fancy substances into their joints even if those substances come from their own body
even if we're sucking out their own stem cells and we're sucking out their own blood and we're using those it's far more important that you get the person in an optimized state so that they want to heal so I you know I'd ask patients if you cut your fingertip off or just sliced yourself terribly do you heal well and if they said yes they were a wonderful candidate for those types of injections if they did not then they weren't because they weren't in a good healing State at that point so my job was to get
them in healing State and then to apply the treatments what is a healing State it's when you fall down and you don't fall apart it's when you get sick with something and you get over it it's when you cut yourself and you heal readily and you don't you know succumb to terrible infections and I think we've ended up as a society where the norm has become to be somewhat imuno compromised I think a lot of people are walking around not not you younger folks but at least in the US a lot of people are walking
around in this sort of semi imuno compromis State much of it is due to metabolic dysfunction which is something he was always drilling into me what is metabolic dysfunction it is when your metabolic Health at its core is the ability to take in the foods that you eat and assimilate them properly so if you were to eat proteins and fats and carbohydrates you would turn them into the fuel that they need to be you would turn them into the proteins in your body that they need to be when that goes Ary which is almost 100%
of us adults at this point from what the data is showing things don't go so well and so what that leads to this metabolic dysfunctional pattern leads to insulin resistance which is essentially pre-diabetes which is the long game into di type two diabetes and we've completely normalized that process at least during my lifetime I've watched that happen I'm 50 years old so I've watched this happen especially since I got into medicine working for my mentor Dr Rick watching folks go down this pathway of normalization into type two diabetes and it's not until they get there
that the doctor says oh you have type two diabetes we got to do something about it here's your pills and there's 15 to 20 years of leg work that can be done before that happens and that's where I think naturopathic medicine really shines and where preventative functional medicine all of us are in the same camp we're all doing the same thing we're really trying to just help the patient in front of us not so much the disease process we're trying to make sure that the person's optimized so that they can become more resilient so that
their immune system works properly so that the foods that they eat are assimilated properly and they don't end up in a cellular millu of disaster is is there like a fundamental belief that you have about human beings how we heal how to be healthy um and the body I guess that you think is in contrast or conflict to the current system like a set of fundamental underlying beliefs because we all have like a set of sunglasses on our lens of how we see the world yes and what I've obviously learned from doing this podcast is
everyone seems to be wearing slightly different lenses M you know as to their view on health this the healthare system humans healing Society what are those sort of fundamental underlying beliefs that you have that's a great question I think that in traditional naturopathic medicine the purist would tell you that there's no room for pharmaceuticals and that you must only go with nature the healing power of nature stoke the individual's Vitality that's very important in naturopathic medicine we're looking at the Vitality of an individual some would call that an aura I think that's a little too
esoteric it is when you look at someone are they are they glowing Vitality do they look healthy you can see it I know you can everyone can see it when you actually point it out to people do they look healthy or are they sort of walking around in grayscale right and I think a lot of people these days are unfortunately walking around in grayscale because they've sort of you know we've all been listening to the mainstream narrative and the food suppli is busted this has been going on for decades my mentor was talking about this
decades ago nobody was listening and now people I think are starting to get hip to it because we've got the internet we've got podcasts like yours and mine where we're trying to get the you know the information out and it's the inherent ability of the body to heal however I do think there's a place for pharmaceuticals and I have a license to prescribe in the state of Oregon and I'm not afraid to use it because in my mind and the way that my mentor taught me is somebody comes in and they're on this many Pharmaceuticals
I mean I'm 50 the average person my age is on five different Pharmaceuticals at this point which is crazy to me and I don't know what the stats are in the UK but I can't imagine they're tremendously better so they come in on all these drugs and their lifestyle is in somewhat of shambles and so my job is to optimize lifestyle so that I can get these down to the lowest or to nil ideally we could get them off but if they need a little something then great I was also taught by him to implement
longevity medicine which is hormones and making sure that people are able to maintain physiologic levels of optimal hormone function as we age which is really important to aging well and so it's just kind of a mix of using the best of Nature and that science has to offer and treating the person in front of you of all the case studies that you have in your mind experience and in your past is there one that you are most PR of it was 2019 my career was really taking off and my mom kept telling me that she
didn't feel good and I was like my mom is a rock my mom's my mom's like comes up to he on me I call her my little mama and she just chugs along and I was like oh she'll be fine she's like no I really don't feel good and I kept blowing her off cuz I was too busy and I was on planes all the time and traveling all the time and I was never home and my mom came to visit me at my house and she came out of the bathroom and she said she's
like I like I can't hold my bowels like I I can't I'm so sick and so I immediately started testing her and she had Crohn's disease and my grandmother had died of Crohn's Disease and several people in her side of the family had died of Crohn's Disease and I just hadn't put two and two together that my mom may have had but she had all the symptoms like growing up she had all the symptoms and I just never put it together and it was hitting her it it rears its ugly head when folks hit their
Elder years like in their 70s they call it you know colitis of the elderly and people basically get it and die they just [ __ ] themselves to death and so my mom was in it and I was like oh no and I pulled out everything I had and I have access to some incredible regenerative substances that you know most people don't and I can use them off label in ways that you know in most people don't even think to do and I threw everything I had at her because I knew if I'd sent her
into the alpath system they were going to do a colonoscopy on her and what that does is they flush you out before they do the colonoscopy and if I if her Flora were to get flushed out of her gut at that point I don't think she would have come out of the hospital because they end up getting secondary infection and so I I pulled her out of it I got her out of the really acute phase and then I immediately referred her to my colleague who is a brilliant physician naturopathic physician and I was like
take over I'm not I don't want to manage my mom but I needed to get her I I knew that it was the skill set that I had in particular that was going to pull her out of that and so we did it and she came to me one day after she was better and she was stabilized and she said you saved my life and at the time I was really bitching about my half a million dollarss of student loan debt that was just compounding and compounding and compounding and I was really frustrated by the
fact that I couldn't get on top of it and I had at that point spent like $100,000 paying off my loans and they were still at the same level I mean it just criminal that system and she said you saved my life it was worth every penny you know and then my daughter turned around who had just gone through a very difficult time herself and she said you saved my life too Mom this year and I was like well that was what it cost to gain the knowledge that I gained to save my daughter and
my mother and then my dad was like you saved my You' bailed me out many times and I was like okay that's so it was kind of um it was just kind of ironic that was the end of my big clinical career you know when I had my big brick and mortar with the high volume patient base and all of I still see patients but not at that level and so that was really I was like thank God I had the knowledge and the tools and the knowhow to and the fearlessness to apply some of
the therapies that I applied the way I did to in terms of before and after what sort of picture of Health would I observe if I saw her on that day when she walked out of the toilet versus you know after the the variety of different therapies that you applied well this is a good story because she was super gray and super thin and my mom has always been kind of you know hippie and curvy and I mean she's we're built different she's she's the more you know um she's the curvy one and she was
just ra thin and gray and all of her hair was falling out I mean she just I can't believe I missed it I can't believe it went on that long that I didn't see it and I I still carry guilt to this day and I always apologize to her for being too busy to I can't believe I let my stress level get so high that I didn't see it you know and then she ended up on a slew of pharmaceuticals that were too expensive to get in the United States so she had to get them
from Canada so her naturopathic physician is managing her so she's getting medication very expensive medication from Canada and she's doing okay and then in the last nine months I put her on the tiniest droplet of seacu tide which is a zic and she is phenomenal all of her joint Pain's gone her guts completely regulated and normalized she is down on a minimal dose of this medication that she's getting from Canada she's still taking it but it's a tiny dose her cognition has improved significantly because through this process she was starting to get low-grade dementia whether
she realizes it or not my daughter and I were noticing it we were like is Grandma okay and so when people come at me for talking about micro doing OIC I will not back down because my mom is solid and it's the tiniest amount and she even said to me just the other day before I was coming on the show I was telling her I was stressed I was trying to get ready for the trip you know overseas and she said you know I was so stressed out before you put me on seacu tide because
my dad's health is very poor and she said I was so stressed that I really felt like it was going to do me in like I was at capacity and you put me on this acuti and all of the anxiety and stress just dropped away and I was like that's cuz it's calming to neuroinflammation which is secondary to Chronic gastrointestinal diseases when the gut is inflamed the brain's inflamed so she was dealing with all this chronic brain inflammation all this gut inflammation and she's on this tiny little dose of OIC and she's very solid and
she's her color's back she's filled in again she's curvy again she's eating normally she does I mean she couldn't eat hardly anything ever for years and so now she's back to eating very normally she's still got to watch what she eats but you know it's not a free-for-all but she is she's back the other I guess glaringly obvious case study for your work but also I think many of the things we're going to talk about like micro doing and zenek is you yeah because as I read through your story from your childhood years through your
teenage years and even in University um and then even later into your career and I guess also now because you mentioned that you still deal with chronic pain you are your own case study I am can you give me a view of of the struggles you've been through in terms of your health um and really where that started what was the sort of first first instance where you experienced the pain the trauma etc etc so I always had stomach AES always since I was a child always and was hit with really pretty severe anxiety I
didn't know what it was at the time but it was anxiety and and I started getting chronic pain in my teenage years and I out of nowhere when I was about 15 the lights went out on me I just became extremely suicidal and depressed out of nowhere I mean it was like somebody just switched a lever I had moved to Oregon from Southern California I do believe that the lack of light was massive I think that people really I'm really starting to appreciate it's taken me all these decades but light deficiency is a huge issue
that we're not no one's talking about if few people are but you're talking about like vitamin D production as well right there because there oh that was huge so that took years you know nobody was talking about that it was not until decades later I was sitting in naturopathic medicine school I was in college and um I think I was in year three of that program and this doctor Dr Alex Vasquez came to lecture at Ground rounds and he started talking about vitamin D and sunlight deficiency and I had been kind of low-grade looking into
sunlight deficiency because it turns out the hospitals of your really would optimize sunlight and they would have sun porches I don't know if you've seen the photos they would roll all the kids out and all of the convalescing ill people out I mean that's how people survived the 1918 flu was the ones who got sunlight and the ones who were able to go to these hospitals and they would build the hospitals to optimize light exposure inside the board because they knew it kept the bacteria counts down and I mean even if they didn't know what
bacteria was or what was happening they knew that when sunlight penetrated people were you know healthier and things were cleaner and infections didn't seem to spread and so I hit my 20s and long story short I was rocking psoriatic arthritis for decades before I ever figured it out and it really culminated for me I went through a lot of chronic pain I went through a lot of misery I went through a lot of autoimmune issues and then I got everything dialed in I thought I had it handled interestingly autoimmune disease will flare and will recede
and flare and recede and it's kind of on Q like you'll see it around 10 to 11 years old especially with things like Crohn's disease you'll see these little glimmers pop up for kids and then it goes away and then you'll see them present in their teenage years and often they'll present with you know mental emotional issues and not so much the gastrointestinal issues but it's the same process going on in the body and then it'll go away and then it might flare again postpartum because of that big hormone surge that happens with child birth
and then it'll go away and then it'll come back with a vengeance in menopause as the hormones again shift majorly and that's what was happening for me and then all of the stress of pushing Back Against The Narrative really caught up with me and I was nothing that I knew to do was working so the whole protocol I put my mother through was not working for me nothing was touching it and that is how I came to start studying glp1 Agonist I started I was researching anything that would calm neural inflammation because at the end
of the day diseases down here are coming from here and when the brain's on fire and the brain's inflamed the immune system gets sent completely sideways and the Downstream processes culminate in autoimmune disease pain hormonal disruption you name it and so I that's how I ended up I literally put into Google glp1 and neuroinflammation and all these studies showed up and that's what got me going two questions there so glp1 is a zmek so it's yes it's the peptide that the body makes naturally we make it in the brain and we make it in the
gut but if somebody's had a life of chronic gut inflammation I don't think they're making it so well in the gut and OIC is just a it's several versions down in the generational line of these peptides called Inc cretans they're um they're a whole family that started way back 20 some years ago and they've just gotten a little bit nicer with less side effects and longer halflife as we go along the journey so the last decent one was Lorac glutide although compliance was low because it made people feel really terrible and they had to inject
it too frequently I think it was daily or I think that's how it is still and then seacu is a newer generation tepati is a newer generation and so they're they're just getting a little more potent and I don't mean potent in a pharmaceutical way I mean they're starting to realize how these work and they're they're getting craftier with not only keeping them in the body for the time that they need so the halflife gets longer but they're finding in this Suite of signaling peptide hormones that are involved with app appetite and with metabolic health
and Insulin secretion and insulin sensitivity they're finding better and better ways to combine these to get optimal function with the least amount of side effects okay and at that moment in your life where you started Googling glp1 and inflammation Etc if I was a fly on the wall in your life at that moment what would I have what would I have seen what was the sort of picture of desperation or you know so 2021 I spent most of that year on my back cuz I was in so much pain it was crazy and my husband
when he met me he met me in 2019 and we got married in 2020 and I told him I had chronic pain and I told him I had a funny immune system but he had never seen it like he'd never seen it full force and he got to see it that year he was like wow so this is what chronic pain looks like I mean it's it was devastating and my spine was fusing and I'm active I do platies and I dance a lot and I hula hoop and I roller skate and I lift weights
and I'm you know moving and shaking I was not moving and shaking in 2020 I was 2021 I was flat on my back on the couch and I Remember by the end of 2021 thinking if this doesn't get better I think I'm going to kill myself like I couldn't do it anymore like I just couldn't live with that level of pain and my spine was fusing and I could feel it and I kept trying to tell everyone something is wrong and my chiropractor friends were great but they knew muscular skeletal medicine and my naturopathic friends
were great but they knew systemic medicine and I I needed me I needed my brain on the case like someone who had both right and I just couldn't get on top of it and then finally I I don't know how or why I I went kind of into the story oh I know what it was I broke out with psoriasis I broke out with psoriasis all over my scalp and I was like oh this is what this is this is ptic arthritis which turns out to be one of the most painful muscular skeletal autoimmune conditions
you can have it it's worse than rheumatoid arthritis on the Pain Scale from what the studies shows so I was like okay now that I know what I'm dealing with what can I do so I started pulling out all the stops and all the things I knew to do lotos now trone exomes you name it I was doing everything it really wasn't bringing it down or it would work for a minute and it would it would it would wear off and so I was getting desperate and my I have a podcast and my podcast producer
said you got to do an episode on OIC and I was like I don't I don't like talking about weight loss I really don't like talking about weight loss it people get so emotionally triggered and it's a big topic and it's nuanced and it's not as simple as people want to make it be and in my functional medicine world people want to make it so simplistic just exercise more and eat less and take these supplements and it'll go carnivore and it'll all go away it's not that simple there's genetic components there's brain components there's epigenetic
components and it was like the Pandora's Box I didn't want to open and so finally I was like okay fine I'm going to start researching these and I was sitting I was laying on the couch on my back and it's 2023 at this point but I'm still having to take frequent breaks right on my back so I'd go exercise and I'd have to lay down for three hours so I'm Googling and I look up glp1 and neuroinflammation because I always start there I always start with pain neuroinflammation and immune activation I always want to know
what any substance does in those because that's my world right because that's what I did in clinical practice and I googled that my husband's in the kitchen and I was like holy [ __ ] and I turned the phone around and I was like look at this and he's like I don't know what that means babe and I was like this is not what they're telling us like this is not what because that was at the height of mainstream media and all the clickbait headlines and you know Mom is overdosing on OIC and people's stomachs
are paralyzed forever and I was like so then I started of course looking at all that like is that for real like are they really getting gastroparesis forever no so I start going into all the data and I just that was it it was like the rabbit hole and it that was May of 2023 and I've been kneee in it ever since just consumed by any and all information and then of course everybody start I started doing podcasts about it on my show and everyone's sending me all the information and hundreds of people are reaching
out to me telling me these really profound stories and changes in their health that have nothing to do with weight loss or diabetes and so that was it I was like I got I got bit by some kind of um well you know I don't like propaganda I don't like when I hear everybody saying the same thing it makes me suspicious you know when everyone's running in One Direction screaming this is evil this is this is this is you know the worst thing ever I was like I don't know this has been around for 20
some years not some acuti but this version of medication this family of medication and so I don't know I was like I'm not buying this I'm gonna find out what the truth is and so I called every doctor I knew that might use it I called every pharmacist I knew that might use it nobody was seeing any of these horrific side effects like the stories you were seeing on the media currently what was that summer that was really it came to like full height summer of 2023 I think that was when everybody was losing their
minds about it the minute they started talking about weight loss people started losing their minds about it which I find very interesting and what I was Finding in the literature was not at all adding up to what I was hearing and then there were all of these other benefits that were just mind-blowing you know benefits on healing and reversing type 1 diabetes healing and reversing neurocognitive conditions like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's efficacy with alcohol sensation people who were you know alcohol abuse syndrome using it for that people who also o had the this type of hlb27
it's a genetic propensity towards these um spondo arthritis is like psoriatic arthritis rheumatoid arthritis those kinds of things having showing efficacy for that and as I started speaking out about it I was getting messages back from people telling me their stories hundreds and hundreds of people telling me their stories and I and then seeing what was happening with my patient so I started applying it to everyone I was treating for different reasons at different doses very tiny doses though very little bits and just seeing really profound changes in people and I it's not what we're
hearing and I don't think that the way also that it's being done in the standard model is ideal for everyone I think a lot of people are being dosed too high too fast and I think a lot of people are being overdosed because at the end of the day it's a hormone it's a peptide signaling hormone and so people are being cranked up on doses very quickly there's a 16 we escalation and they go from this amount to this amount very quickly and in the journey many people are reporting horrific gastrointestinal side effects which are
real but it's not the peptide's fault it's the it's a peptide at the end of the day as well which is I can explain what that is yeah if you had to explain what a zmek is or W go or you know this this compound is just to a 10-year-old yeah okay how would you explain it so you eat amino acids you eat protein and it breaks down into amino acids yeah and amino acids link up with peptide bonds into chains called peptides and then peptides a peptide bond uh it's just a simplistic bond that
binds two amino acids together so it can be broken pretty readily with different enzymes and that's in my body the peptide bond is in my body yeah so your body has all these enzymes present and the amino acids link up very simplistically into different chains and then those chains of amino acids are called peptides and peptides link up to form proteins and your body is made of proteins your whole body all of your tissue is made out of proteins and your cellular receptors are made out of proteins everything's made out of proteins so if you
go backwards those smaller versions are the amino acids I'm sorry are peptides and the smaller versions of that yet are the amino acids so we eat protein we break it down into amino acids and we reconstruct it into more protein and so peptides are these chains of amino acids that we've got all different typ of therapeutic peptides and they insert themselves where they need to go to do what they need to do so that's it at the end of the day and what so what's a zek in that is zek is a peptide it's a
peptide and it's made in our L cells of our gut which line from the most proximal to the disal small intestine and it SEC these cells secrete glp1 in the presence of glucose which is sugar when we eat sugary Foods or food well all carbohydrates break down into glucose so whenever we eat glucose and they respond actually when a bolus of food so the mechanism of a blob of food going through our guts actually gets these cells to trigger however I have tested thousands of people's guts in my clinical practice in my clinical Lifetime and
people's guts are a mess most people have compromised digestion so I don't think their L cells are working optimally in many cases and we also have literature good solid science to show that those who are suffering with obesity type 2 diabetes and fatty liver and that whole metabolic syndrome you know groupage those folks are glp1 deficient so when I take a zmek it's causing my gut basically my body to release glp1 No it is the glp1 oh it is the glp1 yep so we're not causing the gut to do anything we are mimicking the actual
peptide okay so it's got the same sort of atomic structure as AAL so my body thinks it's gp1 I guess it is G as far as things are concerned and then the gp1 is doing what to me well so it's STi for instance Is bioidentical to the glp1 that our body secretes so it's the same except it's been tweaked with a little bit they've added some lipids to it to make the halflife longer so it lasts longer so normally glp1 would be secreted from our cells it's also secreted from our brain which we got to
get into because that's where I got really excited it's secreted from our body and it's broken down very quickly and so these newer versions of these incretin hormones or incretin peptides are broken down at a slower Pace okay and then what does glp1 do it does all kinds of cool things so it most notably in what it's known for is to decrease appetite and that happens centrally in the brain yeah it slows gastric motility so it slows things down so you feel Fuller for longer that's at higher doses that doesn't always need to happen and
that is what it is known for and it also has induction of it it plays with the cells of your pancreas and it gets them to secrete insulin at the right time and so most folks are walking around in some degree of insulin resistance as they age and that is the beginning glimmers of type two diabetes and so gp1s help that process it helps sensitize the cells to the insulin and it helps treat the insulin when needed and when you were struggling in 2023 yeah you started taking a zmek SM magti one of these Brands
yeah um what impact did it have on you so I got a compounded version because I thought that the starting dose let's back up the brand name the prescription that most people are familiar with are these little pre-filled pens yeah and the pens only come in certain doses you can't control the dosage you start at the lowest dose that they offer and then you have to escalate from there or if your doctor's cool they won't make you escalate too much but either way you don't get to go lower than the dose that it starts and
it starts at 0.25 milligrams I thought that that was way too high especially for someone like myself I'm very metabolically optimized I have good muscle mass uh I have very good bone density I have my labs look beautiful I'm hormonally optimized I'm on bioidentical hormone replacement I'm very active I exercise often my sleep is good and I thought my thinking was I wonder if some of us are actually a little glp1 deficient from whether a life of not because we have obesity diabetes and fatty liver there's different reasons why those folks would be deficient insulin
at high levels itself will actually induce some glp1 deficiency it'll it'll decrease glp1 signaling my thinking was I wonder if folks are just genetically or maybe we got ourselves there through chronic illness whatever it may be I wonder if there's a little bit of a deficiency what if I supplement this peptide like I would a hormone which the way I do that is I give people the lowest dose necessary to achieve a physiologic impact that's favorable and then I cap it so if you need a little bit of thyroid the standard model would have you
take well you know the algorithm says you have hypothyroidism so we're going to give you this much and we're going to be this exact drug in my world we compound what we need maybe you need a little more T3 than T4 Maybe you need a tiny dose maybe we titrate you up until you start getting a little symptomatic and we're like let's back it down a little so my thinking was to use it that way so I asked everyone I knew are you using this for anything other than appetite suppression or weight loss or diabetes
and they all said no nobody really was none of my colleagues were anyway and they were all starting at a dose that I still thought was too high so I started myself at a tiny little dose and my first impact was brain Clarity within days my brain cleared I can't even explain it um brain fog was definitely starting to happen I think it was the psoriatic arthritis and I think it was the I think it was postco you know I think our brains all got hit pretty hard by that and I think it was chronic
stress and I think it was menopause and I was sort of in this I'm a high functioning kind of Boss babe and I couldn't get my work done and my team was going crazy because I couldn't remember what I told them and you know they're calling me and they're like we already did this we already had this conversation what is wrong with you so I was like damn it this isn't going to work for me I can't rolling the way I'm rolling and trying to run all my businesses and have brain fog like this so
that was the first thing I noticed was Clarity of thought brain fog went away anxiety immediately dropped which I didn't even realize I had it just a calmness took over me which was so amazing and within two weeks my pain was down significantly significantly and what I noticed was everything was starting to move in pop again so I was getting Mobility back and by week two I wanted to move again so this version of me that just just wanted to like go do my workout go do my work and then lay down on my back
I wasn't that doing that anymore and I immediately like signed back up for Pilates and I found myself dancing and hula hooping around the house again and I found myself just being much more active and slowly but surely the destruction sort of fell away because I had been in a pretty destructive immune process for a couple years there and it just has it's taken me I think it's been almost a year now and it's just slowly but surely dropped away I also noticed a little bit of weight loss which I had gained some weight over
the past couple years I think it was chronic stress was doing a number on my metabolism and you know you hit that 50-year old Mark and things get tough so I had some weight loss fall away I got right back down to my fight and weight I'm like literally the size I was in 2019 going into all of this and so I quickly started putting people on it and very similar responses uh all of them had a little bit of fluff but nobody was on it for weight loss everyone had a little bit of weight
fell right off got back down to a good weight my mom I was particularly concerned about cuz I didn't want her to waste away again I didn't want her vomiting I didn't want her having any gastrointestinal symptoms I wanted all of those to resolve it shifts your gut microbiome to a more favorable microbiome if you do it right and so and we have the data on that so I was very slow and cautious with her I don't want her losing any muscle mass and everybody just had these profound impacts my daughter skin cystic acne I
mean a decade of severe cystic acne to the point where she did not enjoy her teenage years and she was suicidal from it I mean just hiding behind her hair for for years her skin I remember seeing her after 3 weeks on it and I was like your skin is porcelain what happened all of her PCOS symptoms reversed um my husband didn't want to drink anymore the guy is a known alcoholic he was like not interested in alcohol his blood pressure regulated out I mean just all of these little things started happening and I started
seeing similar effects in my patience and then I at the same time I was posting about it and talking about it on my podcast and people were messaging me telling me these profound stories they were like I went on it for weight loss or I went on it for metabolic dysfunction or type two diabetes but here's all the other things that started happening and then people started telling me they were getting pregnant on it and you know when they had been infertile and gone through rounds of IVF that were not working and just all of
these Amazing Stories and so of course I keep I have to research that and do more information on that and it's just been I've just been unwinding I I feel like I'm unwinding a story that isn't being told so what is that story to summarize what is that story that's not being told that you've come to believe these peptides are healing they are anti-inflammatory and they are regenerative and they have a profound impact on our immune system in a positive way and they don't just cover up and mask the insulin resistance and the metabolic dysfunction
that leads to type 2 diabetes they actually heal it how' you know that well interestingly as this year's gone on more and more Studies have come out and we're starting to see it so many of the hypotheses I had about it are starting to show themselves in good clinical data and good studies and I've seen it with my patients and I've seen it with myself so I am now able to go off of it at first I could only go off of it for a short amount of time and my psoriasis would come back that
was the first symptoms I would start getting skin issues and I usually get it around my scalp line little itches that would come back within 7 to 10 days I am now able to go a month without it and absolutely no symptoms and the second I start to get brain fog or a little bit of pain I go back on I cycle it like I would any other hormone I don't know if you've had any guests on talking about hormones but they're done best when you cycle them because receptors get saturated and when you saturate
a receptor with a hormone or after a while the cell will stop listening and so you don't want to just keep flooding a cell or a body with a hormone you want to take it away and let those receptors pop back up and so I think done correctly and done in an elegant way that's just reasonable clinically reasonable I think that we can actually start to heal some of these chronic lifestyle diseases that are so rampant and it makes me wonder if we would need less and less and less of the common Pharmaceuticals that are
being handed out like candy the lifelong Pharmaceuticals people go on statin drugs or they go on blood pressure medications and no one says boo they're on it for life oh here's your metformin for your type 2 diabetes you're on it for life I think done correctly and also the neuro regenerative process that these induce in the brain they actually regenerate neurons neuroplasticity is this concept where when the brain when you do something enough your brain will hard wire into that and so any habit good or bad that you consistently do or any thought process you
consistently have if you're chronically depressed or you're chronically negative or you're you know I mean you know this you're you you're self-optimizing yourself all the time and growing and trying to grow and be better you're plasticizing your brain and hardwiring that circuitry so it's getting easier for you and you continue to seek knowledge these peptides offer people a window of opportunity of not only giving them the onus of control back because there are some mechanisms in the brain and the dope energic Pathways that are giving people the they're back in the driver's seat they're back
in control of what they're doing but it's also inducing this neuroplasticity so if they are to implement really positive lifestyle habits During the period of time that they're on it they will hardwire that into their brain so it's like opening a window of opportunity for somebody to completely change their life you mentioned some studies there that have really supported your thesis that a zmek is more than just a weight loss drug and that it has these other sort of regenerative properties and these healing properties what are some of the studies you've got some some things
in front of you there that you brought with you what are some of these studies that highlight this in your view well so there's one study in particular that I don't have the title of it written down where they looked at all of the data on all of the glp1 agonists that are out there the different versions that I mentioned and they went back through all of the studies and they looked at it system by system by system and I gave your team a link to that and what they found is I mean going from
tip to toe neuro regeneration and anti-inflammation in the brain they showed improvements in card vascular tissue we just had a study come out at the end of 2023 called the select trial it was a big one yes it was sponsored by Nova Nordisk who's the manufacturer of samac Tide of I should say of asmic and so people say oh don't believe those studies it was a well- done study it looked at individuals in their 40s who were overweight but did not have type 2 diabetes and it showed a 20% reduction in severe cardiovascular events so
stroke and heart attack and and others and so then people argued once that came out and said oh well that foof you know Nova nordis did it and that would happen if people lost weight anyway right you you'd have improvements in cardiovascular disease well they just looked at the data again and realized that those benefits were independent of weight loss whether people lost weight or not they still had significant Improvement in cardiovascular outcomes which there's just nothing we don't have anything out there that does that I found data showing regeneration of pancreatic tissue beta cells
in type 1 diabetics if given early enough so if a person is type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune condition where the pancreas becomes destroyed by the immune system it's different than type two we don't have anything to help those people it used to be called juvenile diabetes and then type two was adults onset but now kids many many children are dealing with type two so it's a big mishmash but they're very two different processes they shouldn't even have the same name anyway done early U reversal of that pancreatic damage to the point where people didn't
need to go on insulin and were able to have pancreatic healing we don't have anything that does that except stem cells they at the end of 2023 they had to stop the flow trial because this was a k chronic kidney disease trial um they had to stop it because the control group they needed to be able to ethically give the control group the substance because it was so effective it was so effective at reversing chronic kidney disease and kidney failure that they needed to be able to offer to the control group ethically and not let
them continue on their journey of kidney damage so we've got this mishmash of studies and then they've done little studies here and they're looking at muscle for instance it's regenerative to muscle it's regenerative to Bone it's regenerative to our joints some of this is in mice some of it's in humans it's regenerative to the testes and to sperm production and motility when you say regenerative to say muscle when people talk about ASM one of the big concerns is that you lose a lot of muscle right it's not true I mean it is true I should
let me let me let me rephrase that any dietary intervention or bariatric surgery that induces a severe caloric restriction will lead to about 20 to 35% muscle mass or I should say lean mass loss so this is a little bit of a Nuance conversation if you basically put somebody into a self- starvation mode they will lose 20 to 35% of their lean mass lean mass is all the soft tissue in your body so that could be your tendons and your ligaments and your brain and they they Clump it all into one and they're looking at
that and saying it's all muscle muscle is a percentage of that muscle isn't all of your lean mass right and so that kind of makes the thing this the studies look bad there I think the other thing that they don't consider in that is pathologic muscle due to metabolic dysfunction will be marbled with fat what does that mean sorry well it's like a fogra when you induce metabolic dysfunction in an animal which is what they do in feed lots for cows often and they do it to geese to get their liver fatty you will end
up with this fatty infiltrate in the muscle so the muscle goes from being this lovely striad linear beautiful pattern to marbled with with fat and that fatty infiltrate becomes very pathologic to the muscle and it puts the muscle itself into to an insulin resistant state so once the marbling occurs in the muscle it's sort of a chicken and egg downhill situation for the muscle and I do believe very strongly and I've been preaching this for decades that once that process starts and it most often starts in the thighs you've probably seen the pictures of the
cross-section of like this is an 80-year-old triathlete and his muscle looks really beautiful and linear and then here's you know the average 80-year-old and it's really marbled and the bone loss is significant and the fatty layer on the outside is thicker but what's most important in that photo is the marbling of the muscle we don't want marbled muscle that's the beginning of the end you also end up with fatty liver and you end up with fatty pancreas when you're in this metabolic dysfunction State this downhill Journey that culminates in type two diabetes and so one
of the first things that happens when metabolic Health improves whether this is through dietary interventions lifestyle strength training you name it is that fatty infiltrate starts to dissolve these glp1 agonists induce that process of the fat dissolving and so I think that's part of the lean mass loss that they're measuring they're just measuring it as lean mass loss but we're also decreasing muscle size because we're having the fatty infiltrate start to burn itself up gp1s have also been shown to peruse the muscle with angiogenesis so we get a vascular Supply so that more amino acids
are available to the muscle so when they looked at aging muscle in a human and they gave them gp1 Agonist their muscle became healthier and less pathologic because it started to actually get better blood supply and be infused with the amino acids they were eating in the form of protein so it's and then there's Pathways that are impacted as well that are inducing muscle protein synthesis so gp1s actually induce muscle protein synthesis they don't cause muscle wasting it's the caloric restriction that's causing the wasting and they're measuring it somewhat aberant does that make sense that's
that's the story I'm trying to weave here yeah so but how how do how can I avoid the choric Restriction if I'm taking a gp1 Agonist like some some magti or impc you don't dose it too high so you don't crush the appetite so the whole goal is to keep people at a dose where they still have an appetite you don't have to crush their appetite with it the way it's being dosed traditionally is they're ramping it up really fast and they're just devastating people's appetite with it and so people go from hungry and starving
to I don't want to eat anything and so they don't and then they often will eat less healthy version I'm sorry they'll eat less volume of a poor of a poor diet so they will continue to eat junk food only less of it they will continue to eat the crappy Foods they're used to eating only less of it and I've heard Johan Hari on your show talk about this and he a beautiful book that he wrote his magic pill book he talks about that he found himself about five or six months in and he was
still just eating the same crap he was just eating less of it and what needs to happen when anybody's on this at any dose is they need to be protecting their muscle with all their might they need to be strength training and they need to be prioritizing their protein macros like those are the two non-negotiables I don't think doctors are always talking about that and I don't think patients are compliant with that if I start micro doing though you know won't I see less of the reward I see less of the cost but I would
will I not also get less of the reward the the positive upsides that you've described not if you're doing all the other lifestyle things so like I said it opens this window of opportunity where people feel much more in control because there's impacts on the brain that allow people to be much more in control of their choices and of their thought processes and of their even of their obsessions it's very interesting how it works and so people are able to make better choices and I think given that window of opportunity and introducing these lifestyle interventions
they're going to be much more open to it so we get them exercising we get them eating better we get them doing all the things you know we get them optimizing their sleep we get them going on walks and meditating and mitigating their stress all of those things are going to improve their metabolic health so it's a two-pronged approach and we don't have to crank the dose we can do this slow and low and some people may need more and some people may need less but the point is is the way it's being done traditionally
where it's like you get your script and you walk out of your office and you don't get any counseling you don't get any support this is where people are falling into I believe the terrible pits of Despair so this is where the we're seeing the problems and it can be done differently where we're doing a holistic comprehensive approach with a patient I was reading a 2024 study by Lindsay Wang that found diabetic paent Pati taking a zc were 50% less likely to develop bowel cancer compared to those on insulin what does this say and highlight
about aek's role in staving of cancer well that's an interesting study because insulin is prog grow so insulin is also a signaling peptide hormone very much like glp1 and it is progrow when you give it to someone so someone being on insulin I believe will inherently potentially make them more vul vble to cancer I don't want to say certainly because I don't want to scare everybody because there's a lot of people out there on insulin but it is a progrow hormone now it's prog grow that we get surges of it after we work out which
is awesome we want that right we want that anabolic response but in your average person who's not working out and who's not really using their insulin the way they need to they're already swimming in it due to insulin resistance and now they're taking insulin because their pancreas is pooped out that's a mess that's a soup of of things we don't necessarily want happening growing in the body and so that's stud looked at insulin versus gp1s it's not entirely Fair because it's not a it's not a true control group but they there are other data sets
coming out that haven't been published yet showing really good really hopeful and positive impacts on potentially reducing cancer risk and they're correlative not causitive so we can't put our finger on it and say these these these reduce cancer but they looked at a you know over a million people that were typed diabetics that were on somac glutide and they found a significant reduction in different types of cancer that are obesity related in comparison to the folks who were not taking gp1s and those were the ovar the cancers you don't want the ovarian the pancreatic the
colon the types of cancers that are you know you don't come back from readily and so that's very exciting it's not getting a lot of play and it's really really new information so I'm excited just to watch it but it makes sense to me because these on your immune cells as well there's gp1 receptors throughout our entire body that's why we're getting the impacts throughout the entire body and I think that the impact that it's having on the overall immunologic millu of an individual is potentially very anti-cancer I mean that study that you cited there
I know nothing about um asek and gp1s really but in my even in my sort of you know chimp brain I go yeah because if they lose weight they're less likely to get cancer right no that's totally fair and I think it's both because the way that these are working mechanistically in the body and many of the studies that I've looked at are showing results independent of weight loss even if they don't lose weight then their cancer risk reduces well their the healing and regenerative and anti-inflammatory impacts are there regardless of weight loss or not
and then you add in weight loss and you add in insulin sensitivity you add in this this healing of the metabolic dysfunction and you're going to significantly reduce risk for everything as well I mean that's a really good point actually CU if has has anyone done a study where they give someone a zenek and even if they don't lose weight inflammation goes down well that's what the select study the trial showed that that cardiovascular trial I just shared with you they just relooked at that information and realize that even independent of weight because that was
the big argument everyone had is well of course the cardiovascular benefits will stay or will improve because they're losing weight but they found that even in those who didn't lose weight they still had really good cardiovascular outcomes so yes it that's what that's what we're starting to see and so I think they need to start looking at these things more readily but they weren't right they were just looking at like here's morbidly obese people and here's type two diabetics and we're going to crank up the doses and we're going to see what we see but
we're starting to get longitudinal data now so that cancer one for instance was looking at uh patient records going way back and so they had over a million you know people in there that they again it's correlative it's not positive but it's showing trends it's starting to show positive Trends and so I think that's what we have to look at and we have to start to flesh that out what about mental health things like depression um and sort of anxiety and these kinds of things you maybe have heard that these are inducing suicidal ideation and
people are you know getting severely depressed on them and the EU opened a whole Research into it and people are very concerned about this and yet we've got studies showing really positive impacts on depression and anxiety and the thing I will say about that is I'm not saying that people on OIC are not having suicidal ideation but that is a little more nuanced of a conversation because number one when you lose a significant amount of weight very quickly all kinds of things can go wrong you can end up with pancreatitis you can end up with
gall stones you can end up with severe depression uh your fat stores your hormones and so you lose your hormones very quickly I've had patients who got tummy tux and came in a few months later and were losing their minds because they literally just had all of their hormonal Depot sucked out of their stomach and so there's concern there that this rapid weight loss which again I am not a fan of I not a fan of doing it that way but if you drop somebody's weight significantly you may end up with a very depressed mood
State we've also got a bit further to go with that in that many people are using food as their dopamine source and as their crutch or as their coping mechanism and I'm not judging I just understand that to be true you know we all have our advice and if you take that away from someone because they suddenly don't want to eat because we've crushed their appetite with too high a dose then I think that we could end up with a very depressed person in front of us however done correctly and what I'm seeing clinically is
people are having really profound benefits in their anxiety and their depression in their moods in their cognition um I'm seeing neurode Divergent folks taking it who are becoming much more functional in the in their everyday day-to-day I'm seeing people who are more of a Hermit who don't want to go out in the world suddenly venturing out being more social so there is an impact on the brain and I think it's the anti-inflammatory mechanism I think it's the dope energic system the dopamine Pathways being impacted and again if we're not cranking the dose up I think
that we can use these effectively to bolster mood to improve cognition to improve brain Clarity and all of that leads you know an inflamed brain is a depressed brain at the end of the day we have to get that point really clear depression is a brain inflammation issue you've mentioned sort of sexual health a few times and fertility in passing when we're talking about as EK um women's sexual health male fertility what is the the impact in your view of and and is empek intervention on these kinds of things well the fertility conversation is really
daunting and it's kind of a long one but we are looking we are a few Generations into a major fertility crisis and they say what is it by 2100 2,100 by 2 by 2,100 97% of countries in the world will not be reproducing at a rate to repopulate themselves we are looking at a population crisis by 20 by the mid 2040s they say sperm rates are going to be at zero and again that's multifactoral but my firm belief at the root of this is metabolic dysfunction I I I firmly believe that metabolic dysfunction is probably
the biggest driver if I could press a button and fix it I would put my finger on the metabolic dysfunction button and gp1s heal metabolic dysfunction and so we're seeing reversal and PCOS which is probably one of the number one drivers of infertility in young women period which is really at the end of the day just metabolic dysfunction it's just presenting in women with high androgens the clinical picture PCOS isn't doesn't always involve um Cy on the ovaries it's just this I don't even know why it's called that anymore it's a clinical picture where they
have metabolic dysfunction they have high testosterone they have low progesterone their estrogen gets converted readily into testosterone they end up with hair growth they end up infertile it's a disaster many many young women many women in your age cohort have this condition many women in your many couples in your age cohort are not able to get pregnant without IVF at this point people are not getting pregnant I don't know how old are you 51 yes people in their 30s are not getting pregnant and when I ask my friends in their 30s all over the world
I say what's like how's how's the pregnancy going with like how how's it going with your friends and they're like everybody's on IVF it's I don't know what you're hearing but it like that's crazy to me that 30-year-olds are having to do IVF healthy looking 30y olds are having to do IVF so we've got sperm issues and we've got egg issues it's both it's not just the female's fault it's not just the males issue um we've got sperm Health we've got sperm volume we've got sperm motility issues we've got metabolic dysfunction in both groups and
what happens when we do have a successful pregnancy is that that Offspring is being epigenetically flagged if the mother is obese and dealing with metabolic dysfunction and even if the father is that fetus ends up bathed in insulin in utero and they come out EP epigenetically marked for much more severe risk of metabolic dysfunction and obesity in their own lives and that cycle just goes into perpetuity that's where we're at we're several Generations into this as as a species and so I'm worried like I'm legitimately I I joke that humans are going extinct it's not
funny and it I think it's really happening and I I do believe it will happen in the next few Generations if we don't write this ship and at the root of it is this overarching metabolic dysfunction 2018 data out of the US that was published in 2021 showed that only 6.88% of us adults are metabolically healthy 6.8 so that's 93 94% of us adults are cardi metabolically busted that's and that was pre- lockdowns why that's a great question you know you talked about PCOS and this sort of infertility crisis and then you talked about it
being about metabolic dysfunction yeah where is the metabolic dysfunction coming from what is the thing furthest Upstream if we were to attack it at its source yeah the food supply was significantly adulterated in the past few Generations so it's starting with my parents the Boomers you know they got their Convenient Food their everything was about convenience that's when we got you know disposable diapers and fancy microwaves and dishwashers and all that jazz well food became very convenient as well in the '90s I watched this happen in my lifetime in the '90s the food supply was
significantly adulterated and terrifyingly so and they found the Bliss point right the perfect Emulsion of sugar fat and salt to hit those neurotransmitters in the brain to make you want to come back for more toxicity is a huge issue I believe toxicity in general not just environmental toxicity but it's the chemicals in our food um what we're doing to ourselves so many young women today are bathing eles in toxic chemicals through their beauty habits I mean the nails and the hair and the skin care and it's it's really really severe so it's this sort of
multifactoral thing humans are actually eating the same amount or less calories than they were 30 years ago it's not the caloric intake it's not that people are sloth and they're lazy and they need to do better it's that we are swimming in a toxic soup we are eating a very adulterated mineral deficient protein deficient chemical [ __ ] storm of a food supply and then you throw in the mass I mean to be totally honest with you the massive uptick in vaccines in infants when they come out I mean that's a whole different ball game
than it was even when my daughter was an infant it's significantly different than when I was an infant so we've just we've got a lot of things coming at these young people and it culminates you know and it adds up and I think people don't realize we have a toxic bucket we all have an individual toxic bucket and that bucket will become full for whatever reason maybe we've got mold exposure maybe we've got too much stress it's it's multifactoral but that bucket will fill up an overflow and metabolic dysfunction is a result of that and
also a driver of that so it's it's very hard to put my finger on why or the chicken and egg what's what's leading to what I know that there's things we can do that are non-negotiable to help write the ship as best we can that have nothing to do with drugs and have nothing to do with peptides and I've been talking about this for decades we must be strength training and optimizing our muscle we must be walking every day like human beings do humans were made to walk and lift heavy [ __ ] right we
are meant to be in community we're not meant to be isolated we're meant to be around others we are meant to share our microbiomes we are meant to have healthy microbiomes not these super sterilized microbiomes the abundance of microbiome disruption from all the antibiotics I mean that alone causes lifelong issues for people and so you stack all this up and people are sitting at home they're alone loneliness is an epidemic they're eating food that comes from Uber Eats or I don't know what you have here but they're ordering in they're eating processed foods for most
meals they're not getting out here in London I'm so happy everybody's walking but back in the US everyone just drives everywhere maybe in New York they walk but any anywhere else you go you know it's like get up go from the bed to the couch to the car to the desk back to the car to the couch to the bed people are not exercising people are not paying attention to nutritionally dense food they're not getting sunlight they're not in community I think Co really squelched Community just in so many different ways you know a lot
of churches are sort of disbanding communities are disbanding they shut the gyms down so there's just all of these factors that culminate into a human being that isn't a healthy human being just on that point of PCOS if I was a young woman I was 31 years old then I came to you with PCOS polycystic ovary syndrome and it was impacting my fertility you could see I had the uh you know higher testosterone levels I had slightly hairier arms I was maybe put on some weight what would you aim at what would you do I
would prioritize protein first of all I would go for 30 grams of protein three meals a day as best that you can I don't even care if it's grassfed fancy protein I just want them eating animal protein if they will do it I want them immediately cutting out as many of the chemicals that are applying to their skin and their bodies so they're not getting their hair done they're not shooting the botox they're not putting the nails on they're not I mean it's just a chemical what's coming at young women is crazy when it comes
to their beauty routines at this point I would have them walking three times a day for 10 minutes each so three 10 minute walks outside preferably getting up and seeing the sunlight so we set the Circadian rhythm so it's really important that you get up and outside first thing in the morning to get natural sunlight in your eyes and it's really important that you see it in the afternoon as the sun is waning that sort of golden hour you know as the Sun starts to wane in the sky and the sky gets golden go outside
then that really helps you with sleep sleep is critical cut the blue light put the you know Amber blue light blockers on at night stop staring at the phone and the TV until 10 o'clock at night get that [ __ ] out of there because that is jacking up people's Rhythm which is jacking up their fertility and their hormones um strength training is non-negotiable we have to protect our muscle and we have to build it I'm a skinny girl and I lift more than you would believe and I don't look I can't hold it but
I try so really optimizing muscle that alone would be a GameChanger like if they didn't even cut out I wouldn't even pull Foods away from them I would just say focus on eating getting the protein in and the other foods will start to fall away and when you start to do all the other things that are good for you you start to make better choices when you feel better you do better I have reversed so much PCOS in women like that next I would add in some progesterone which is available over the counter but obviously
do that under the care of someone who knows what they're doing so you don't take too much progesterone but progesterone's a very important player in there it's actually a neuro hormone it's it's very safe and effective and I would get them eating as much of a whole food diet as I could could you can you reverse PCOS yeah yeah I mean they so you know genetics loads the gun and environment pulls the trigger so they came out with some bad f genetic Flags but that doesn't mean that that's their fate none of us it is
not my fate to die a miserable death from psoriatic arthritis I will do everything I can to make sure I keep that at Bay and that's something that medical doctors don't tell you you go in they say you have this there's nothing we can do and I'm like could I take a multivitamin could my is changing my diet going to do anything and back when I was growing up there was like there's nothing you can do good luck at least now doctors are starting to get a little more Savvy and realizing it's more nuanced and
I'm I'm starting to see the professions come together more and realize like Diet actually matters and I'm starting to see it in the headlines of the medical journals like Diet actually matters lifestyle matters light matters you know but all of these things what what I tell patients is I'm not going to cure you you are genetically and epigenetically primed but we're going to try to keep that as quiet as possible we're going to try to keep you optimized so that this over here doesn't rear its ugly head but you know throw in a bad viral
infection or throw in a big stress or throw in you know something major like a birth child birth and you might get off kilter again but that doesn't mean you don't have all the control in the world to help mitigate that I have to say you know as someone that comes from I'm going to try and pronounce it again naturopathic medicine it is quite surprising to hear you talk about micro doing on a zenek I know because you know I think naturopathic medicine you'd imagine they were very much against micro doing or dosing any sort
of chemical pharmaceutical right so how do you square the circle there because it's a peptide and it's been appropriated by the pharmaceutical industry because of its delivery system but there's many other peptides that are available over the counter for instance in supplement form like bpc157 which is a regenerative peptide it's also anti-inflammatory all of these peptides generally are regenerative anti-inflammatory and healing they all just kind of have their special skill set so we've got a variety of different peptides that were pulled by the FDA because they work is my opinion but we also have ones
that are available over the counter that are in sprays that are in pills if you go get hurt you can order them online it's legal I'm not talking any black market this these are reputable companies in a supplement form and you can induce phenomenal healing in your body these are available people just don't know about them and they don't know how to use them and they are a bit expensive this is just another peptide it just happens to be held over here and it's being used in a way by brand name pharmaceutical big Pharma compy
companies in a way that I just don't think is appropriate for peptide use you've used that phrase done correctly a few times when you're talking about the micro doing of a zenek and you've also highlighted there but also previously in this conversation that people are using it wrong so I or using it in too high of a dose so I amum I brought with me today some little science lab which I've got over there in the corner because I would like you to show me when we talk about micro doing a what micro doing is
as a term what does that mean but also could you show me the comparative difference in how you would and you are giving your patients a zc what dose you're giving them out comparatively yes to how it's typically being administered in what dosage um for the sort of weight loss effects that we've talked about and that most people know it for sure yeah absolutely so let me bring over the zmek okay so this is what they start people on and then every month every four weeks in the traditional model with the brand names like OIC
and wovi and mro they double this is this would be specifically for stide okay so let me back up here just I've got my um some with you so typically when they administer a zek and stide they do it in a pen which you kind of self inject which is at a controlled dose yes so you can't give yourself whatever uh quantity you like it's kind of like a set dose you go and it injects into you yep okay okay so they start them here with that much in it so for people that are can't
see cuz they're listening on audio it's 0.25 milligrams okay and then every month they double the dose about over 16 weeks they double the dose until they get folks generally now smart docks will stop people where they need to stop but the standard is to get them up to about here per week per month I'm sorry per week yes per week they do this per week they get them up to here this is what the studies have been done on and so this is how it's traditionally dosed and if you're severely diabetic or obese I
could see the rationale I'm arguing I still don't think that's necessary when you have the appropriate lifestyle interventions okay if you're treating someone comprehensively using other peptides using hormones getting people to do the healthy lifestyle changes I don't think this is necessary and I think this leads to very high risk for side effects so we went from was it 0.25 to 2.5 basically so 10 times more yeah over the space of x amount of weeks 16 weeks 16 weeks okay so they 10x the dosage over 16 weeks yep um which looks like what is a
lot so you're taking that much injected into self injected every week every week okay and you do that you're theoretically supposed to be on that dosage forever yes and they don't ever stop they don't take breaks they're not concerned about receptor sensitivity it's just they just go it's just you're on this and you're on it for life now some there are really good weight loss docs out there and they are helping their patients get off of them and actually the more recent data is showing that when folks are exercising just it doesn't even matter what
kind of exercise when folks are exercising in addition to they can come off more successfully and maintain the weight loss so that's promising however my argument is in somebody who's metabolically optimized now this isn't everyone this isn't your severely obese patient but in somebody who's metabolically optimized I give them a fraction of this and that differs by person but I actually have to use an insulin syringe so that I can do a fraction of the starting dose and I may never elevate it I may never ramp it up so compared to the 2.5 milligrams in
there you're giving out how much I'm giving a fraction of 0.25 I'm giving a fraction of this so you might be giving 0 Z it depends it depends on the patient and without getting into detail because whenever I do people start playing with their dosage themselves and I've heard seen crazy things in the comment section of my posts on Instagram so I don't want to tell people exactly how to dose um but it depends it depends on what they're going and this is a bigger conversation because I don't ever do seacu tide as a monotherapy
I never do it by itself I never just crank people on seacu tide and hope for the best if that is the only Geo if I'm sorry if that's the only peptide they're using they likely will have to keep going up and so I have one patient who is obese and has some weight to lose and I have taken n months to get him to here which is roughly one one milligram that's one milligram so he's on one milligram and I really don't want to raise it I really want him doing more of the lifestyle
interventions to start to heal the metabolism as well so it's a multipronged approach I'm trying to heal the metabolism at the end of the day this is one tool but there are other tools but this is a pretty potent tool so in the case of someone that is micro doing how frequently are they taking that small dose in the small sort of Petri Edition front of you it depends so give me give me a case study of the typical person well it depends on what I'm going for what my short-term goals are what my long-term
goals are so for myself I was having to do a fraction of this droplet here not this this once a week as people heal and improve they're able to space that out some people can space it out two weeks so some people are dosing every two weeks some people are dosing once a month it really depends some people are there's a lot of folks thinking they're micro doing but they're actually just barely going below that 0.25 they're still almost right at it so they're still doing a large percentage of this and that's not really micro
doing but they're getting results and so my goal is always just to dose people just below symptoms I never want them symptomatic I never want them saying I'm nauseous or I'm throwing up or having any of that there's no need for any of that I want them just below symptoms and I want them continually improving and getting the results I'm looking for that might be lowering of blood pressure it might be Improvement in mood it might be you know continuing clearing of their skin lesions it depends on what we're going for and then my goal
is to cycle this so I will try to get them off for as long as I can and I will try to try to take breaks for as long as I can because I want the cells to resensitize so that might be like I said two weeks it might be a month some folks might just do this a couple times a year they may not be on it continuously they might just do what we call a cycle this is you might be familiar with this um if you've interviewed anyone on testosterone therapy often it's a
cycle and so they'll do a few months maybe 90 days on and then they'll take some time off it totally depends on the patient and what I'm going for though and it depends on again what am I trying to accomplish shortterm and what am I trying to accomplish long-term and how compliant are they being with the rest of the treatment plan so give me a case study then of someone who has micro doed with you successfully and they've gone from ill health and some form to healthy so my mom is a great example she started
on a tiny little bit cuz I said she's older and she's a bit frail and she was going into it with gut issues already so a very tiny little bit she actually ramped herself up I'm not sure why she ramped herself up a bit she got a bit symptomatic so she was still at well below this droplet amount and I've recently it's been maybe nine months I've recently brought her back down to a droplet and I'm trying to keep her there and she's still doing it once a week and we're starting to play with how
long can she go off of it before we start to see symptoms I don't want the symptoms to come back full bore because then we know tissue destruction is happening I'm trying to heal people in the process of treating people if that makes sense I want both to happen but she also needs to be compliant with all the things and so something I'm hearing about a lot which is a great case example is many of my colleagues who I have a program where I teach people how to do this and many of my colleagues are
thinking their micro do and they're not and then they start calling me and they're like they're either running into symptoms or they're hitting a wall and their patients are plateauing they say it's not working anymore I'm like well what are you going for if they're going for weight loss they are going to Plateau if they're not because they haven't implemented the strength training yet or they haven't implemented maybe some of the other bioidentical hormone replacement or whatever it may be you know they're not doing the they're not taking care of all of it holistically and
so they're running into some barriers what is what is the role it's playing if if you're doing it at such low doses what is the role that it would play for someone with for example chronic pain or some form of inflammation in their body why is such a small dose IM important in the bigger picture you described there of getting their health back in shape is it because of you said earlier about the brain fog and getting them to a state where they can make better decisions or I think it's actually also in the brain
so glp1 is secreted in the brain something that most people think is that it's secreted in the gut and then it makes its way to the brain there's actually different Reg of the brain where glp1 is produced and there's receptors all over the brain to receive the glp1 so I think something very important is happening in the brain that we really are only just starting to understand and I believe that the downstream impacts of that of healing that like I said at the beginning if we heal the brain we heal the immune system we heal
everything Downstream and so I'm really trying to have a cognitive impact and so that's it becomes more critical than to do all the lifestyle interventions that reduce neuroinflammation we want to make sure they're taking supplements that are supportive for brain health we want to make sure that their lifestyle habits are supportive to brain health they're not continuing to drink a bunch of alcohol although this makes most people not want to drink even at tiny doses most people just want to stop drinking it's really phenomenal they want to kind of stop doing all their bad habits
they want to stop chronically shopping they want to stop all the dopamine chasing habits that they have which is is now if you go too high though you start to impact reward systems and I can see where they start to get depressed so I'm trying to have a positive healing regenerative impact on the brain and the immune system to ultimately heal them up and hopefully I can take them off of them or maybe they might have to revisit it if there's a flare if something comes up in their life that sort of set like I
said you kind of get set back over the edge we might have to bring it on board for a minute but I'm ultimately doing an initial healing phase and then I'm doing a maintenance phase you mentioned alcoholism there and you mentioned your husband earlier as well how is there research to show the impact that it has on addictions they're studying it but people want to stop smoking people want to stop doing cocaine people want to stop doing all kinds of things and it's very interesting and they Johan actually talks about this in his book and
he he does a nice job of breaking down the science there on it they looked at rats and they thought okay well if this is just crushing the reward system then it would crush all the reward systems but it's not crushing libido for people and it's not crushing some of the other reward seeking behaviors it just seems to be crushing many of the ones that are pathologic or not so great for our health in the long run and he actually talks about a study that I've read as well where they took rats and they gave
them sort of that like yummy Emulsion of that sweet sugar salty deliciousness and then they gave them rat chow and when they put them on seacu tide they stopped seeking out the yummy devast I mean that's that Emulsion is what makes you become very metabolically you know compromised and they still ate the rat Chow they still went for they went for the healthy food I don't know how healthy rat Chow is that's debatable but they went for the more nutritionally dense food and they actually stopped seeking out the pleasure food and I I'm seeing that
across the board with all kinds of behaviors I got a message from a lady she said I had no idea I had such a severe online shopping habit like I would just fill the cart up and purchase and then she started filling the cart up and not purchasing and now she's not even online shopping she's not even like going in to make the to have the experience it's really interesting what's going on in the brain there in your opinion it plays on the hypothalamic pituitary axis to some degree and it is impacting dope energic Pathways
and at the end of the day the dop anergic Pathways our dopamine seeking system is in a simplistic way to describe it is our addiction system so we chase that dopamine dragon that dopamine Dragon might be sex it might be gambling it might be cigarettes it might be whatever it is whatever that thing is that gives us that hit and interestingly about dopamine and why it BEC such a process I mean I think a lot of it is these cell phones it's this quick we've got a very quick reward system Society you know back when
I was a kid we had to like wait outside in the freezing cold all night to buy concert tickets and now you guys are like well I'm just going to buy whatever I can afford to get the best seat it's a very different world you know and everything's right at our fingertips and it's very it's very quick response and so our dopamine Tre is really screwed up dopamine is healthiest and signaling best when we're seeking out the challenge it's not when we get to the it's not when we win have you ever wanted something really
badly and then you succeeded and you got there and you were like I'm just not feeling it just wasn't what I it's because it was the journey there it was the conquest of getting the thing of achieving the goal that's what gave you the dopamine it's not as much getting the thing at the end of the day and this is playing somewhere in that system system and people are just not having the reward seeking Behavior as they were I had so many people reach out to me and say when it came to food in particular
this must be what normal people's brains feel like I don't wake up obsessed thinking about food I don't go throughout my day obsessed thinking about food I can actually think about other things really what we're saying here then is that hunger is much more than a desire for food hunger is a much broader sort of psychological phenomenon that's about dopamine and reward and all these things so when we attack so g1's role isn't just in hunger it's in this bigger psychological sort of incentive structure it was weird because as you saying that this morning I
didn't eat right because I didn't have breakfast and I didn't have lunch because I was doing my annual health check so they say you got to fast beforehand so I didn't have anything and my first meal per se was at about 2: p.m. you can see my little jab in my arm from they got you the little canula thing they put in my arm um and I got to about 3 p.m. and I hadn't eaten and I have this drawer in my car the car we typically pick up guest in and it's got some like
less healthy snacks in I try and stay out of it but because I hadn't eaten for some reason I was like I need to go in the drawer and eat food I need to go and eat the sugary stuff so as you were talking I was thinking is the administration of jp1 and zeg just bringing down that noise a little bit to the point that I no longer want the sugary snack drawer because I was thinking to myself this morning if I if that was the start of the day when I was less hungry I
wouldn't have been thinking about that snack draw but because the day went on and I became more hungrier I had a greater pull on dopamine so there's people living typ you know their everyday lives with this kind of Greater demand for dopamine for whatever reason and it's coming from gambling or porn addiction or or shopping addiction and what gp1 is doing is it's just bringing not just the the I need food that the hunger down it's bringing the sort of dopamine pathway down in terms of volume it's quieting the noise that's a really good way
to put it and that's how people describe it is they call it the you know the the the food noise or the hedonic urges it it quiets the noise down and that's why I was saying earlier that it gives people this wonderful window of opportunity to be back in the driver's seat they sometimes for the first time in their life have full control over what they're choosing to eat when they're choosing to eat what they're putting in their mouth and some people didn't have that control before and it's not just dopamine we've got leptin we've
got gin we've got these different appetite they're also peptid signaling hormones and they all play together and they don't play well if glp 1's not in there so if leptin is happening and gin is happening and we can go into the details of that if you want if g1's not there the orchestra doesn't work and there's a lot of folks sitting around with leptin resistance insulin resistance they're not responding to Gin this even the cell receptors getting to the edge of the membrane is sometimes gp1 contingent and so my argument is that sometimes the tiniest
little amount might be what that person needs to kind of harmonize the orchestra maybe you know we can't have and this is the other reason I don't love it in monotherapy Imagine a jazz band and you just had one big bass drum that would be ridiculous it would sound terrible right like the Nuance in the Jazz drummer is what makes Jazz so cool a lot of folks are using this at this dose right this huge dose and that's the big old bass drum and they're just crushing the whole brain circuitry to suppress hunger period and
they're ending up with all these Downstream side effects which are not fun my argument is if we just harmonize the orchestra but sometimes we need a little estrogen or a little progesterone or we need a little bit of this or that we need to do some lifestyle things to get the leptin resistance to reset and the insulin resistance to reset but we might need a little bit of gp1 on board every single time you eat you have an opportunity to improve your health and that's why I love Zoe because Zoe helps me to make the
smartest food choices for me and my body and as you guys will know by now Zoe is a sponsor of this podcast and I'm an investor in the company and if you haven't tried Zoe I highly recommend you do because Zoe combines My Health Data with Zoe's worldclass science and using those two things Zoe guides me to Better Health every single time I make a food choice and eat which means that I have more energy better sleep better mood and I'm less hungry and the most important thing is Zoe actually works it's backed by their
recent clinical trial something called the method study which is the gold standard of scientific research I started Zoe just over a year ago now and I've been able to track my progress week after week so I can learn how to be even smarter the following week and if you haven't joined Zoe yet I'm giving you 10% off when you join Zoe now just use the code ce10 checkout what if someone says that we haven't got clinical studies yet to prove that micro doing is safe over the long term and it could be doing long-term damage
because these you know compounds have only been around for what a couple of years now and in terms of people really using them on mass well I think we would be far more concerned with high doses and that's what most people are on are on high doses and we're really not seeing the safety signal blowing off the way that people are concerned about in fact we're seeing the opposite of that some really good data has come out refuting many of the studies that were so concerning in the past few months and some of it's just
being presented at different conferences so it's not being published yet but I keep up with all of it and it's very exciting we're not seeing a signal on pancreatitis we're not seeing bowel obstruction um gastro pris I think it's fair to say that the highest risk group for gastroparesis is type two diabetics it's because they are sugaring up their Vagas nerve the high blood sugar is actually destroying the Vegas nerve which is causing low-grade gastroparesis so they're already sitting on the edge of of it in many cases and then they're being cranked into these crazy
high doses and getting thrown over the edge a real concern is bilary disease so gall stones when you go on a very severely calorically restricted diet your bile sledges up in your gallbladder so a gallbladder is already very often compromised in an obese individual and it's already sludgy and it maybe already has some Stones forming and then they go on a caloric restriction that lack of food going through the digestive tract will cause the bile to sludge up they'll throw a stone into the pancreas the number one cause of pancreatitis is fatty pancreas which people
with metabolic dysfunction already have the N the second cause is a gall stone and the third cause really is excessive severe weight loss done too quickly so we're taking people and thrusting them up on these high doses they're often already sitting on the edge of many of these conditions and then they're getting thrown over the edge it's like well yeah no wonder when I started looking at the terrible side effects I was like well of course I mean anybody who is severely diabetic or severely obese is already sitting on the edge of that and so
my argument is why are we throwing people on these high doses and sending them over the edge I don't think taking a tiny amount of something is nearly as concerning as the high doses but the rates that you're hearing in the media are not the rates that are showing up in the studies even of these terrible side effects I just mentioned I have always believed that there's no such thing as a free lunch that's SP in life and you know whenever someone tells me that something is good for me um it always comes with a
cost you know like that just seems to be the way that life works and I like that life has that balance to it where there is no you know anything that's worthwhile whether it's starting a business having a great marriage or relationship raising kids right there's so much of an upside and there's so much of a cost you know and so as it relates to micro doing of zek my brain is going there's got to be a cost if there is any reward there has got to be a cost that's fair well you have to
think about the risk reward ratio and that's something that we don't talk about in medicine I think Co really showed that you know you have the risk of covid the real risk of covid whatever that looked like depending on the scale of uh susceptibility you had for poor outcomes so if you were 65 or older you were in poor health there was a real risk and then you have the reward uh we have to look at what lockdowns did we have to I mean 146% increase risk of suicidal ideation all kinds of I mean I
the stats on that I don't even want that like makes me sick when I start thinking about what happened um I was just driving over here and the Uber driver was telling me how nobody goes to church anymore and all the bars are the pubs are closing because the culture the pub culture is going away not because of drinking but because of just people join gathering in community you know like he said it was Co was the end of so much of London that he saw and he's been driving for in some form or another
for 15 years through London and so we have to look at risk reward ratio and the risk of walking around in a chronically inflamed state for somebody who say has ptic arthritis I have thought about this and I'm like you know what the risk that I'm seeing in the data from high doses of this is probably not nearly the risk of a tiny dose of it and it certainly is better than the clinical outcomes of walking around with raging psoriatic arthritis for the next 30 40 years which is dementia my spine fusing lack of movement
muscle wasting chronic pain so on and so forth the real risk of obesity is tremendous and something that a lot of people don't appreciate is when we start to gain weight in middle age that's a lowgrade insulin resistance happening and so a woman will gain you know somewhere between 45 and 50 she might gain 10 pounds okay we get a little thicker as we get a little older okay maybe the next five years she gains another 10 pounds and we just sort of accept it as a society like all our moms kind of get bigger
right and all moms just get bigger and they all end up looking like they you know the whole the moms the grandmas everyone ends up in my family round by the end of it well now my family starting to drop dead of heart attacks they're all on lifestyle medications they're all on statins and blood pressure medications and all of these things and my thinking is what if that process never even started what if I was able to intervene with not just glp ones but all the other tools I had available to me that I didn't
have when they started I wasn't out of school yet I didn't know what I know now what if I was able to intervene and give them decades more of a high quality life and that's what longevity medicine is that's what hormones are that's what bioidentical hormone replacement is and what these other peptides are that we've been using for a long time in clinical decades in clinical practice and I don't know if you you probably don't but the um Women's Health Initiative 20 plus years ago came out with data showing estrogen and progesterone replacement therapy is
dangerous and all women were immediately ceased doctors got scared everybody got taken off their hormones we just destroyed an entire generation of women over the past 20 years doctors that were smart like myself and my colleagues we read the data and we realized that they were giving them progestin and not progesterone and there was nothing unsafe about what they were getting and so we kept everybody on their hormones and I'm like well here's informed consent would tell the patients this is the data this is what we're going to do they agreed or didn't agree that's
called informed consent here's your risk reward ratio and they've just reanalyzed the data in the past few months and decided that they were wrong it was bad data they shouldn't have taken all these women off of hormones the amount of dementia and cardiac disease and bone fractures and on and on and on that happened because those women were starved of hormones is devastating to me so it comes down to understanding the mechanism of action of how these things work sharing that as best as you can with your patients and then having a conversation and letting
the patient decide so but in the case of the micro doing you're going to tell me the upsides in that informed consent scenario what would you tell me the downsides might be I would tell you the downsides that we see in the data with the high doses okay but and you would extrapolate from there that you would have those downsides meant but in smaller frequency much much smaller po but also you keep a sharp eye on your patient you don't just send somebody out with a prescription and say see ya good luck you know it's
close monitoring you're making sure to keep track of things we're running Labs we're checking in we're making sure symptom pictures aren't showing up and it's upside versus downside people are going to listen to this and they're going to think okay so I should be micro doing as zc and what might happen is people will go online and they'll try and buy zenek and then they'll at home start I don't know putting it in that tea or whatever oh no that's not a good idea I would I don't know what the situation is in the UK
but I know in the United States we have longevity doctors we have Smart functional medicine doctors we have doctors that have access to compounding pharmacies and I'm hearing at least in certain parts of Canada there are compounding pharmacies I don't know what the situation is in the UK I believe there are compounding pharmacies are being driven out by big Pharma because they're pretty punk rock they're doing individualized medicine for patients they create medications for a patient at the dose that's tolerable for the patient and I highly encourage folks to do their research and find a
doctor who's willing to work with them and at the very least consider the starting dose that is in the pre-filled pens and talk to your doctor about not escalating so quickly and making sure that you implement the other lifestyle factors aggressively so that you don't have to increase the dosage and I'm hearing from people in my program that are doing quite well that way they don't have access to compounding pharmacist they don't even have access to like a longevity doctor I understand that's not available for everyone and there's there's economic issues I get all that
so they're finding great success in that 0.25 milligram and they're being really diligent about all the other lifestyle interventions and they're doing awesome and so I don't know any doctor that would want to crank up a dose of any medication if a patient came to me and said doc I want to start on this you know the standard is this dose I want to start on this dose and I don't want to go up I'd be like Hallelujah cuz anytime you increase the dose of anything you're going to get side effects are you seeing the
weight loss benefits in people that are micro doing if they're metabolically optimized and or they really start working on it so if somebody walks in and they've got 30 40 pounds to lose I have seen them successfully micro doing so long as they take that opportunity to do all the things they cannot sit on their ass and eat junk food all the things what are all the things so strength training a couple times a week lifting something heavy that might just mean filling up water jugs and picking them up and walking across your room it
might mean picking up your cat and doing some squats every night just starting to use the muscle and why strength training because muscle is the currency of metabolic Health like we need muscle mass in order for our cells to be optimally insulin sensitive it's just how it works we gobble up our blood sugar and we regenerate our mitochondria predominantly in the muscle so we need muscle it's a very important organ system it's not just a moover you know we don't just move our our bones around with it you've got to have go Dr Gabriel Lion
on and she'll give you the whole muscle the conversation but muscle is absolutely non-negotiable and so strength training man woman I don't care what age they are it's something we have to focus on it might be push-ups it might be I saw some cool stuff around the parks around here you guys have you it's way better here than it is in the US it's like not even emphasized so my husband's like that's like a situp thing and that you know it was like some blocks of wood with some metal on it but it was set
up as a little exercise area in one of the parks so making sure that's dialed in prioritizing protein okay making sure the food you choose to put in your mouth is nutritionally dense what's the bang for your buck is it brightly colored is it coming from a lab or coming from a factory in a package with a hundred ingredients in it or is it a whole food right is it is it food that came off the farm is it food that looks like how God made it however you want to think of it simplistic so
I'm G to start lifting weights I'm going to um yeah I'm G to start lifting weights and then I'm going to start eating lots of protein yes and what else do I need to do make sure that you eat a variety of colorful Foods right so just just focus there I hate taking Foods away from people start there you'll fill up and then you don't need the rest right you're going to get up and go for three walks a day like I mentioned three 10-minute walks and I think ideally morning because you're getting your morning
sunlight go out at noon so your High Noon light you're going to do wonderful things for your leptin and for your circadian rhythm if you hit the light at three times a day and then you're going to go for that late afternoon walk so that might just be going out with your dog it might be going out with a friend whatever might be going out at lunch break whatever just go around the block these are are these these sound very similar to your six pillars for a pain-free life which you write about in your book
painfree and strong yeah so we covered a few of them here we've covered the strength training one and I had some really awesome stats that I found um in one study 186 people with type 2 diabetes were split into three training programs one was one group was strength training the next was moderate cardio training and the third is a combination of both and the strength training only group lost the most fat gained the most strength and lean body mass and had the biggest decrease in insulin resistance and that was in women's health and you know
I think one of the things that we've always assumed and I've certainly assumed it is that as I get older I'm just going to lose muscle and that's just what it is yeah it's not true no it's we even have studies showing that folks in their 70s can maintain and build muscle even if we maintain it right even if we can just maintain it so it's critical this is not negotiable I have a 24y old daughter who is starting to understand this she's starting to get it right and she's like okay mom what do I
do and I'm like just pick up your dog she's got two different dogs that are two different sizes I'm like just do squats with your dogs start doing push-ups off the side of your couch you can do this at home right there's so many opportunities online now everything's out there and it's free you just have to actually put in the time we've covered movement there we've covered strength we've covered the food and gut the four others you've got in this pillar one of them is um sleep sleep so sleep can be elusive for folks especially
if they've got hormonal issues and or they've got insulin resistance and metabolic dysfunction which drives the hormonal issues so it's really important that you you have to prioritize your sleep but you have to protect your sleep and when I say Protect it I mean are you sleeping with a husband who's snoring all night long are you in a really noisy environment do you have to add ear plugs in is it too bright in your room do you have to put an eye mask on like what's basic sleep hygiene get the TV out of the room
the TV is not helping you the bedroom is for sex and sleep get the husband out of the room maybe well you know what people snore when they're metabolically unsound and they're overweight too so if we can get the husband involved in the activities then hopefully everybody gets better and the snoring goes down so yes you'll get a new husband I guess well yeah when I was dating it was a big deal actually I was like I would ask them on the first date how's your sleep and if they they said it was not good
I'm like that's not agreeable to me I'm not messing with this so just really opt going to bed at the same like be an adult be a grown-up we put our kids to bed at a normal time every day we have a rhythm with them right they go to bed they get up the same time every day we have to do that with adults stop sleeping with your phone by your head stop sleeping with it in the room what about sleeping pills I don't love sleeping pills I have used them clinically I don't love ambian
or any of those types of drugs but there are other options to help people get to sleep we can use herbs I think pretty well too but we have got to we've got to do what we've got to do to reset the sleep but I'll tell you number one if your sleep is off and you're not exercising every day I don't even want to hear about it because if you're not exhausting your energy like you would your puppy or your child of course you're not going to be able to sleep and number two if your
circadian rhythm is screwed up if you're not getting out that morning sunlight is so huge if you're not getting out in the daylight I know when it's gray in Oregon sometimes it's gray all day long and I can't even tell what time of day it is and I will still go out there in a rain coat and make sure I'm out in the daylight even though it's gray as heck so that is absolutely critical both of those things will help improve your sleep why did you include mind set as one of your six because you
have to believe that you're going to accomplish this that goes into the dopamine pathway it's a challenge right this is my challenge this is and and I mean Challenge in a good way I think of it as a quest not as a negative challenge right I don't want people to ever feel like they're up against an insurmountable wall I I heard that a lot with covid when I was talking about weight loss and metabolic optimization people would say I have tooo much weight to lose there's no point there's always a point we can always start
to decrease inflammation and improve metabolic Health even if the scale isn't shifting it doesn't matter so we really have to go into this with a Winner's mindset we have to be goal oriented I'm sure you could actually chime in on that too like what are the things that you do that drive you to get up and go do the things that you do that might be hard or challenging but you know they are what you need to do to move the needle and that's mindset it has to start there if it doesn't start there if
you don't make a decision a concerted decision to execute you're never going to get there that's super difficult isn't it it is cuz people are so riddled with their own traumas and their own complex psychological state that getting them to shift their perspective on the world is is like trying to convert a religious person to another faith it is but I think people are outcome oriented and I I see the potential but that's where I said remember short-term long-term goals if I'm only focused on the outcome I'm never going to get there and when I
do that dopamine's going to drop off and I'm going to be like [ __ ] I'm going to fly you know just fly back to where I was it's the short term it's the I want to win I want to feel better I want a better life for myself I want a better life for my children I want to I want to be a better person for the people around me maybe people are single and they're looking for someone I always get asked that how' you find a great guy I'm like you have to be
a great person you have to make yourself a great healthy person to attract another great healthy person so it's the journey it's not the destination right that's just Health 101 it's the journey not the destination interestingly in your um in your book you don't have a chapter about this but you've said in other situations that saas have been a pretty critical uh beneficial tool for you in your health over the past couple of years yeah son just getting hot like you can get hot in a bathtub you can get hot through exercise but just getting
your body heat up will induce heat shock proteins which does so many great things for your brain and immediately makes people feel better people wonder often they go do some aerobic exercise and they think it might be the endorphins from the run and I'm like if you turned into a sweaty mess during that you got a whole bunch of other benefits too right we moving lymph we're removing blood it doesn't sound that sexy but those heat shock proteins are it they have a significantly positive impact on our immune system somewhere around 40% reduction in pneumonia
when induced so like do all the things right just go get hot and when I am out of sorts and my immune system's flaring and I'm sort of at the end of my wits and I don't know what to do I just think I got to go cook the sh out of myself I just got to go get hot and get sweaty and then generally the solution comes to me or I have a better path ahead of me right that a little bit of light will come out ahead I'm like okay that's the direction I
have to go and so sauna is a wonderful way to do it but I know that's not available to everyone so bathtubs just getting hot when you when I look back through your childhood and your teenage years and I see all this pain you know um there's a lot of I've had a lot of pain five years old you're in hospital um nurses are forcing you down as you go through your teenage years you were in a really dark place mentally you as you said you were res suicidal and you tried to overdose on medicine
I think I was a early I was talking to my husband about this the other day I think I was a really early version of what we're seeing with so many young people today I think I was um you know I was brought up on a lot of ultra processed foods as ultr processes they would have been in those days a lot of Wonderbread and baloney and you know Vita cheese I don't know what you have here but you know like a processed cheese blob and I think that my falling apart of my health and
my mental wellbeing in my teenage years was a direct result of just severe malnutrition and Ultra processed food addiction did you have ADHD as well yeah they called it hyperkinetic and you know what the solution was they said get her a dog and make sure she's always physically active and keep her away from White Foods so breads cookies crackers processed foods right that was a process as it got and I I always think of that old doctor in that advice because it was perfect it it's perfect whenever I have a patient who's really ailing I'm
like do you have a dog it's really important that you have a dog there's so many reasons but it's it's just simple stuff and I think what we're seeing now is a very extreme version of that and so many young people are really really really suffering and my daughter was one of them and she's 24 and her friends are all so sick and have such Health troubles and it's there's no answers there's only just more drugs their moms are sick their moms all have autoimmune disease I mean it's just devastating to me you know so
to me you say you know you mentioned like it's hard when we're in this soup of toxins but to me it's I'm P that's my push back that is how I push back against the system I want to infect as many people as I can with the truth of their responsibility of taking care of themselves the best way that they can and you don't have to do all of it all at once like I said it's a journey so just pick one thing like start with the walks or start with the milk jugs and the
push-ups or the squatting your cat I don't care whatever it is but start with one thing and then start to build and just start making these things habits right just routine and habit routine and habit and to me they're just non-negotiable it's it's just the way it is and that's the only way I I mean I'm batshit crazy if I don't lift weights and I don't eat well and I think a lot of people are and I think we just medicate them or we dismiss them or we just sort allow them to sort of descend
further into the misery we can live with neurod Divergence we can live with I mean I do think I have a bit of neurod Divergence as well or whatever they would have called it back then but I I think that we can live with these things harmoniously and turn them into superpowers so long as we take good care of ourselves I had a whole career built off of helping people with chronic pain because I understood it because I had lived with chronic pain my whole life right like I intimately understood how to help them and
I thought outside the box because I knew what it felt like and I just wanted to help them and I I think that that's what it comes down to and you're in your early 30s but when you get to your late 40s and you start waking up and you're like oh so this is what you know what it feels like hopefully you'll become more proactive that's when you really start getting into it and then you start seeking out other options maybe you maybe you will need some bioidentical hormone replacement then you know maybe you'll you'll
have a different perspective at that point a bit as as you go and experience it because we all do right we can be vehemently one way and I'm not saying are but a lot of people are really dogmatic and I'm like okay well like the people who really hate on OIC I'm like well it's showing great promise with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's I hope you never need it if you're so vehemently against it that you won't even consider it you know I don't mean you but just in general like be open-minded and seek knowledge what is
the most important thing that you have to share that maybe we haven't talked about is there anything that we've missed I would honestly just say always seek knowledge always be learning always be seeking knowledge always be open-minded to different things even if you've taken a hard stance on something consider alternatives and when you hear people telling the truth or it sounds like they're telling the truth double check them look up sources don't just follow influencers don't just follow what someone says on Instagram or what someone says on a podcast go look it up and learn
more I often are PL I'm planting seeds for my audience often and I will tell them something and they want all the information right then and I'm like no no no I'm trying to get you to actually go look up more information I want everyone in my audience to be a knowledge Seeker because that is how you learn and that is how you grow and that's how you stay on top of it and that's how you stay one step ahead right I have a closing tradition on this podcast as well where the last guest leaves
a question for the next guest not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for and the question left in the D hero for you is see when you reach the end of your life what has brought you the most joy and is that the thing you're most proud of yes I have picked a hard path for myself I I I always try to be brave and tell the truth as I know it and it's not always popular and as my audience grows it gets harder because I get more and more push back but I
refuse to step down when I find something that can help people I have dedicated my life to trying to get that message out to as many people as I can if it would be helpful to them and so while it at times I've felt like what have I done why why why do I keep doing I feel like Jonah bark at times you know I'm I'm the girl over here with the early unpopular opinion but I feel proud of that I know my daughter is proud of me and I know that I've helped a lot
of people a lot I know a lot of people have and they've come back to me and said you saved my life in one way or another and I'm really proud of that and that's I just want to be of service as best I can and my gift I I think is uh taking complicated information and explaining it simplistically so that people can Implement and while that's been hard and challenging and I've received a ton of push back that has aged me and made me sick at times I'm really proud of that Dr Tina Mo
I find it so interesting you know because um it's an idea this idea of micro doing as MC is not one that I've come across before I discovered your work online and I'm of the contingent where I like to hear new ideas that maybe haven't had all the clinical studies run on them before but I like to I like to imagine the possibilities and then obviously there are scientists that are going to do the research and that that research is going to continue for many decades to come but I'm I'm intrigued by it I'm curious
by it it doesn't mean that I'm going to go on Google and start micro doing myself in my bedroom I'm absolutely not going to do but I like I like how it assembles a picture in my mind about this new thing and the poal possibilities of this new thing so that's why I wanted to have the conversation today and I think as you've clearly said everybody listening should do their own research they should go out there they should speak to their doctor they should look at the studies that we've cited today they should do their
own independent research to form their own view but I think all progress starts with these sort of initial hypothesis these sort of anecdotal experiences and then Society eventually catches up or Society proves that that hypothesis was something else or wrong in some way and that's why I have these conversations because I think it's you know when I think handled in the right way and when presented with the Nuance of all these subjects they can be the start of a snowball that can cause Society to start asking questions and through that debate and through that investigation
we can hopefully arrive at a better place and I especially like these conversations when I believe that someone's intent and their intentions are so pure and so well-intentioned and that's certainly the case for you so thank you so much for the work you're doing all the wonderful people you've helped I've seen so many hundreds of comments from people that have um benefited from the work that you do and I think that's a remarkable thing and a Force for good in the world so it's been a pleasure to speak to you today and thank you for
making the journey despite the honeyed disc thank you so much for having me it's a true honor [Music] a [Music]
