India-China end 4 year long LAC standoff. Shekhar Gupta explains. Snehesh Alex Philip joins in

here's the 30C lesson on what Legends know never practice nunchucks in a crowded room never eat choli before a road trip always take your shirt off before you IR it don't take a call near a swimming pool and don't forget saving is not investing Legends don't just say they invest in mutual funds mutual fund Investments are subject to Market risks read old scheme related documents carefully as we all know by now India and China have decided to end this standoff pretty much end this standoff that started 4 and a half years ago in ladak mostly

in Eastern ladak All Along Eastern ladak but also going to some points deep south of ladak almost reaching up to Himachal Pradesh now as we talk about this and and we'll go into it in some detail and at some point SNES Alex Philip our defense editor will also join me to explain the new Norms that have been decided between the two sides I have to also underline to you The Uncanny reality The Uncanny reality or if you think uncanny is probably a little bit negative or suspicious or intriguing let me say a sobering coincidence you

can also say glorious coincidence because whatever the outcome of a war or a battle there is a lot of sacrifice made and your your armies fight gloriously so you can choose your own description but today is 21st of October yesterday 20th of of October was the 62nd anniversary of the start of the formal start of the 1962 India China war or what we see as the Chinese invasion of India because China started that war without a doubt 21st October when I record this is also the National Police Memorial Day now National Police Memorial Day is

also linked to India China border in the same geography in the same geography although this happened 3 years earlier on 21st of October 1959 a patrol of the crpf what was then called in that unit was called Indo Tibetan border Force they had been sent out in the hot spring area to basically to check out the ground and to establish their presence because that was the era of the forward policy both sides were checking out moving their troops ahead to see who who owned which Real Estate and that is when they got surrounded by Chinese

soldiers a much larger body of Chinese soldiers 10 were killed many were taken prisoner and the squad commander who was taken prisoner later came and also described as he wrote his descriptions said that said that they were also made to carry some Chinese bodies which means some Chinese also died in that in that Skirmish now that that is called that is observed as as the National Police Memorial Day so our tributes to all all of the Indian polic men and women from all forces crpf and all other forces who sacrificed their lives over this over

this 65e period in fact if you want to read more about it as I had mentioned to you in a much earlier episode of kak letter please check out this article by IPS officer Akash chandel in the Indian police Journal now that said let first of all look at the politics of what has happened and then we'll take you to the ground and see what does it mean and what does it lead to and what are the new Norms that SNES Alex Philip will join me and explain to us so first of all the politics

now just just just check the timings I keep saying I've said this to you again and again that in my business that is journalism we follow the three example rule which means if you find three examples of something usually you will draw a straight line between in the three that means three is a straight line that confirms the hypothesis now the hypothesis in this case let me tell you the three points there are three examples the first example is that the big standoff that India and China had in doam region butting sikim between sikim and

Bhutan that started in 2017 that ended that ended on 29th of August 2017 almost dramatically back chnal talks were going on but it end ended almost dramatically what's the important thing to note just a few days after that is from 3rd to the 5th was the bricks Summit that tredition of brick Summit was taking place in Shaman in China so on the eve of the brick Summit then we come to 2022 that was the next big there was one in the middle that I'll tell you about but the next major resolution between IND and China

that was in the gogra Hot Springs area you heard a lot about it we also recorded a full episode of katak clutter on this of which also I'll share a link with you please see that now this came this came on 9th of September 2022 again the timing the resolution came or disengagement came on 9th of September 2022 on 15th and 16th of September the SEO Shanghai cooperation organization Summit with was taking place in summeran in 2022 famously that's where Prime Min Minister Modi made his off qued remark this is not the era of war

that said come to our third example because we said three example rules so what's happened watch what's happened just now just today on the eve of the bricks Summit in Kazan in Russia once again India and China have made this resolution so this tells you that when the two principles are about to meet that is Prime Minister Modi and president xiin ping until then his back Channel stuff goes on and then this is not just a question of anaram right it's in in in in geostrategic Affairs nobody has anaram everybody is B so it's not

as if Shin ping is awkward to face Narendra Modi now that Baba or I'm not letting him come to his own area how will it look no it's not like that it is that two big Powers keep negotiating all the time and then they choose their occasion to announce a resolution so this is as good a moment as any that's how three of these resolutions have come major resolutions have come timed with these Summits one with Shanghai cooperation organization and two with brick Summits and this has happened over 7 years 2017 doam and now 2024

I told you there was another one in the middle and that was in on 16 February 2021 that's when disengagement came in the pangong pangong so pangong Lake and kalash range area that's a little bit different I can't find a link there to one of the Summits but that's a little bit different because that's where India had taken advantage by going up to kalash range and both sides had taken their armor also now in the entire ladak sector you can take a tank here and intact there but really the tank territory or tank Terrain in

any in any sizable width or length is available only in two areas one in the north and what is called as a depsang BL bulge on the Indian side or depsang planes on the Chinese controll s and the second and the second in the kalash range area now these are the areas where if tanks are taken by both sides it becomes a very fraud situation India had gone up there it was was a very adventurous and very audacious move in August the previous year in 2020 shortly after what had happened in Galvan and also skirmishes

in pangong area and the Chinese had brought their tanks in these tanks were standing almost Barrel to barrel and that's where the two sides figured that they had something to exchange and India also had a bargaining leverage and that's when India decided to agreed to disengage there the Chinese also disengaged the tanks on both sides came back and both sides figured out a modus weend die now modus weend die in these cases were little was a little bit different from what it what it's going to be now the motors vendi then in all these cases

was that look you used to go to I'm I'm talking of ladak now not dlam that you used to go to these areas to petrol we used to come to these areas to petrol you don't come to these areas we don't come to these areas the areas where you perceived was your line of control line of actual control and where we perceived was our line of actual control which either side is not disputing we will declare these as buffer zones buffer zones means if nobody comes nobody will be stopped and if nobody's there is if

there's no confrontation one pedol doesn't stop the other then the opportunity to break into fisty cuffs or or using other weapons will not will not take place and that's how a distance was created between the two sides that is how all of these resolutions were arrived at and this also applied to the Galvan region which also got resolved first because that's where that Bloody Skirmish Taking Lives had taken place now this said two vital areas were still missing one was deang now deang you go right up north right up north then look to the west

of dobay goldi do Bay goldi is an old small air strip it used to be a heliport but now it's an air strip you can land c130s there quite comfortably you can also land some other aircraft there now because it's been improved it's also India's last post sort of so to speak in the north as you go up north along sh River ladak please see the map this is just 8 kilm short of karakoram pass now the Chinese are very sensitive about that area not because their highway is passing through karakoram Pass their Highway actually

is passing through kjera Pass later although we don't know what they might do with karakoram going ahead but this is a sensitive area for them because this is much too close to their shiang Mainland so this is the area where Chinese in 1962 who they pretty much taken most of the deang ples that was in their claim line whereas what remained with India was the depsang Bulge depsang bulge is nearly 970 Square kilom now India did not have any troops positioned there but India regularly petrol that area now that area is not easy if you

see that area it doesn't have many valleys mountains Peaks it is a fairly flat area it's really a mountain desert or a mountain Plateau at altitudes ranging between 16 to 177,000 Ft however because it's flat land this is a wide tank T tank terrain so the Chinese can bring tanks from their side which is much easier because their side is flatter high but flat much better connected India can bring its tanks but it's it'll be very difficult to pile up that kind of tank force there because all of it has to go through one Road

along sh river which is in fact mostly within the range of Chinese light artillery as well so the Chinese see it might see it as an area of opportunity in case of a real war India may see it also as an area of opportunity you never know because if India can push in enough armor from there and get a breakthrough India can cut the Chinese highway there g219 which is the gilgit shinjang highway and this which started the trouble in mid 50s however these are theoretical things what had happened was that India used to petrol

to certain points in this area those are petring points 10 11 11 a 12 12a and 13 India's access to those patrolling points had been barred the Chinese on the other hand would claim that their territory or their their perception of Lac stopped just 1 and a half kilomet short of a place called bir see on the map now birday is where itbp has a very large Camp I think Battalion headquarters or more these things keep changing but a sizable camp in 2013 the Chinese had come within kilometer and a half or 2 kilometers in

fact very close to bird say and that led to a lot of negotiations and and give and take etc etc finally they pull back going generally West from bir Indian petrols would go to petring points 10 to 13 that is 10 11 11 a 12 12 a 13 The key thing is that just after bird sa not far from there is is an area which is literally called bottleneck it's so narrow that no vehicle can pass there now the Chinese get their petrols even if petrols don't come in they have surveillance they or maybe they

Park a vehicle because they built roads a road right up to their area of control and that can give warnings or they have surveillance equipment or sensing equipment that can give warnings to their petrols that an Indian petrols coming in and they come and stop they started stopping Indian petrols at bottleneck after bottleneck comes in area called y Junction that's because that that path Forks into two one goes towards petring point 10 that's on the Northern end and the other petring point 13 that is sort of south of there that goes up to generally to

the to the galwan area and then it continues so that has been the big trouble spot and that is where a lot of the critics of the government have said that India has lost 1,000 kilomet of territory 970 km what is 30 square kilomet between FR and fo in terrain like that but 970 kilm and the allegation has been that India has lost that territory so the truth India never lost that territory it's just that India's access to that territory for petring had been stopped similarly China's access to petring in some of these areas which

they consider as theirs according to their idea of the LSC that had been stopped as well that has now been resolved India can now petrol to these these petring points now the other contentious point is way down south that is very far south in fact it is 560 km south of do Bay goldi do Bay old I told you is the northern northernmost point it's also called SSN Indian army has traditionally called it SSN sub sector North but when you come South come come come 5 60 km it'll take you a lot of time reaching

there in that terrain then you come to a place called demock now demock is again an area where where the Chinese claim line and the Indian claim line vary by about 3 km now it's a slightly complicated thing as everything is in these parts because the British Maps showed demchok Village say let me just say at one point along the along a Nala Nala called the Charing Nala the Indian Maps 1947 onwards showed this as west of Charing Nala West is towards Tibet that's an easy way of understanding this 3 kilometers to the west of

Charing Nala and that's where India believes that their line of actual control lies Chinese don't accept it and that's why this is an area of frequent dakami of fre of frequent if not fisy cuffs but frequent tension what the Chinese had done lately was to cross Charing Nala and Pitch tent literally pitch a tent at the spot where they think their claim is now they have removed that tent they have removed that tent and it looks like both sides cannot petrol once again SNES will explain to us how this petring will take place so Indian

side can petrol along carding Nala Indian side can petrol up to India's own claimed Dem chalk Village in fact there are two themcho villages in the same area it's just that the Chinese spell theirs with two Q's so R is demem CH K China's is demem q q now India can go to its own side of Dem chalk this also solves some problems that are graziers have had in this area because this is a little bit of a flat area how however this is not an easy terrain either Dem chalk itself is 13,800 ft and

if you go up if you go up in fact if you go south from there but up as in altitude you go you have to reach to 16960 Ft or 500 170 m and this is almost a mountaineering kind of petrol and that's where in the past longrange petrols have been carried out by the Indian side the Chinese come from their side they leave their souvenir packets of cigarettes a little a little paint or something to say we've been here that is a pass called Charing pass or charging lck it is from that spot in

fact that it is said that you can get a full clear glorious view of mansur over Lake I told you this brings you almost close to that part of the Border where Himachal Pradesh begins now whether India can go up there or not we'll see but the fact is in all these areas now as in the areas where disengagement had taken place earlier petring has now opened up subject to the new Norms those new Norms will just tell you about and now to explain the implications of these new rules and how different this new Arrangement

is compared to what was arrived at in the previous disengagement say in gogra Hot Springs pangong Galan Kash strange Etc we have SN Alex Philip joining SNES I know that this means a little less anticipation of action than used to be the case until today but overall this is good news well there is no doubt about the fact that this is good news because this is this development is coming after four and a half years of 10 standoff um and the the best news is that this this news is coming just ahead of the winters

and the winters in this region is really hard uh it's actually very killing because the temperatures and areas drop down from -30° to over -50° C so this was something where you never had any men or equipment posted before 2020 but since 2020 every winter there have been people whove been deployed there yeah so what exactly will happen now and how is this Arrangement different from what what happened earlier with gogra hot springs galban uh pangong uh Kash range uh the difference being that now we not fully uh they have the government has not uh

said anything officially besides the fact that both sides have agreed for disengagement and restarting of petroleum uh now what happened in the early disengagements that have taken place uh these were the friction points that were created in 2020 the points that you mentioned was that there was disengagement with the troops from both sides who were literally face to face I would not say face to face but literally face to face they pulled back at an agreed distance of let's say anywhere between 1.5 km to 2 2.5 km so it's the distance varied from area to

area uh from where they were right uh and the area between them were declared as buffer zones now you know one one way of saying is that both have gone back the other way is saying that because the Chinese had intruded into India dominated territory I would not say India held territory India dominated territory so the more the Gap is there more on buffer zone is more on the Indian side more at our cost more more at India's cost uh now the buffer zone means that nobody goes to petroia so this was a way to

keep the troops away from each other now what has happened is that in the dep sang PLS uh and in Dame Jo they have agreed to go back you know uh where as as were early mentioning the Chinese troops Stop Indian soldiers at this area called bottleneck right so now they have they have agreed to go back to their pre-2020 positions but at the same time they've also now restarted petring so which means that areas where uh large number of petring points where India was not able to go since 2020 India would now be able

to undertake these petrols so both sides can go to their perceived points on the Lac now so the both sides can go uh not to the perceived points but they can go to uh What uh to the petring areas where they went let's say in May 2019 yeah but but stop about 200 M short but 200 M short while you know for example on the on the like you were mentioning about the dep sang side itself as far as the Chinese are concerned their perceived uh Lac comes down to birth right it's just about 1.5

km from a major Indian military Camp there now in they've they never uh do come there so there's a mutually agreed this is something which is on a very ground level situation where they allow uh them to come and where they are stopped now the interesting part is that there is a new protocol also petring protocols also now that have been introduced uh the copy has just been updated these were information that just came in a few minutes back as for the new petring protocols both sides will undertake the the the frequency has been limited

to twice a month right so which means each of these points to each of wherever the petring points are there go twice a month you can go twice a month so Indians can go twice a month and the Chinese can go twice a month which means that they would do alternate week right uh then and then and the As for the new petroleum protocols each side will have to inform the other that they are going to undertake this petrol so that you know there is no Clash the idea is to avoid any clashes so each

time India let's say goes to uh since we're discussing dep sang here let's go to dep sang from Bottleneck bottleneck they will move down to Y Junction from y Junction they'll go to pp10 PP 12 and 13 they will inform the Chinese that we are under going to undertake this petrol so similarly let's say for the Chinese if they uh if they want to petrol let's say in in the Galvan area and they want to come down to the pp4 area which was a buffer zone the Chinese will inform uh the Indians first saying that

you know we are going to undertake this petrol now they also restricted the total number of personal in a petrol to 14 people size is only 14 size is only 14 that's one cricket team and three extras one cricket team and three extras one cricket team two umpires and a third umpire oh well there you go so uh usually petrols are around the same uh same strength itself earlier also but then there were times when you to take you know a bigger petrol and that is where the clashes and all used to happen as you

would have seen on multiple videos that have come out of clashes even before 2020 so the aim is now to restrict the frequency of those petrols informing the other that we are going to undertake the petrol and then distinct the total number of personel that are there I I did try to find out whether uh whether they would they would be these under the protocols they would be able to carry weapons uh as in I'm talking about assault rifles but I haven't got a confirmation on that yet so uh earlier also in earlier petrols also

they used to carry weapons on the back but it used to be yeah upside down it should it used to be upside down it doesn't really take much for I know I know but that was symbolic that was a symbolic symbolic thing but They Carried weapons so U I'm not really sure that whether it's the same protocol that has been followed I've try to check once I get the confirmation we'll update that now for clarity does this mean that the other areas gogra Hot Springs kalalan uh pangong uh Kash range where earlier buffer zones had

been set up those buffer zones will not need to exist because each site can go to their perceived lines of petroleum see but again um so the buffer zones no longer exist as it existed earlier right but then for someone someone could always turn and say but hey but these are continue to be buffer zones because allowed only twice into that zone right so it all depends on how you want how one looks at this whole issue but the fact is that earlier you were not allowed to enter those buffer zones now you can enter

the buffer zones but you have to inform the other but in any case you were not sitting there you were only patrolling there and that's the reason why I use the term India dominated areas rather than India controlled areas that's right so once again first of all just just with facts Chinese came and gave India a lot of trouble the expression I've used it used is that for 4 and a half years they came and sat on DNA there right and they were not moving and it was problematic to evict them by force but they

also realized that Indians were also there in strength yeah and in the course of time we built even strength I think about I don't know to mention a precise number but for let's let's just round it off and say about 10 regiments of Indian tanks and armor have been taken there right well I I just uh was in ladak eastern ladak last month where we've done multiple videos from there do watch our YouTube channel for it but I can tell you uh the fact is that no matter how much that we've shown the kind of

development that is there infrastructure building in terms of roads and also in terms of military infrastructure is just amazing so more than half of the things I've not spoken about or mentioned in the videos for obvious reasons but it's just amazing yeah and and and the Chinese also figured that there was no way they were going to move any any distance forward because their objective is really their 1959 claim line which they keep pushing at so if you add it all up this is good progress in fact I will tell you a couple more fascinating

things because this is such an interesting Zone come to demock that is 560 kilom South of dbo dollar big oldi demchok is where aai chin is at its narrowest it's it's at its narrowest that highway is going past it it's at its narrowest and that's why Chinese are also very concerned about this the other thing is just just for those who are fascinated by geography this is where Indus River enters Indian controlled territory I'm not saying India because aai chin is also India as far as I'm concerned I believe in the map of my country

uh but this is where indust River indust enters the Indian controlled territory and this is where Charing Nala that's where the dispute is in fact Charing Nala also breaks into two and as the two two branches go into the Indus River it makes a little bit of flat land in the middle like a little Delta and that is where the village location is and that's what that's what creates trouble this side or that but it's fascinating that this meets the indust and indust comes into uh Indian Territory and then carries on to ladak and then

onwards into Pakistan occupied Kashmir now one more question finally uh SNES we know that right now you've got your rights you got your rules right rule book is there uh you tell the other guy I'm coming you stay away I I'm only this many people all that we understand but does it mean a larger disengagement of big bodies of troops and Equipment heavy equipment so the Lar disengagement is not going to take place so soon uh right now because of the winters there would be a disengagement well the the government would call it disengagement this

is the pullback of troops during Winters which is the norm now what uh what I've gathered so far is the fact that these decisions this implementation is to set the stage for the larger most probably Modi uh Prime Minister Modi and president shij jinping's uh bilateral talks uh in Russia and post that is when there would be actual disc discuss so one of the protocols agreed is that every uh on a monthly basis the commanding officers of multiple units as well as the brig Brigade commanders would keep meeting regularly their counterparts their counterparts would meet

treating regularly that so this is in fact a whole set of cbms confidence building measures so each side knows what the other is doing now a couple of things first of all we've explained this many times before but Arun Shi taught us the power of repetition you always said never under underestimate the power of repetition there is a difference between disengagement and deescalation disengagement is what's happening now that is troops were here they were taken here and now they'll be taken here deescalation on the other hand is troops going home to their home bases these

tanks heavy units the artillery going back to their home bases that means you've de-escalated you are not fearing that a war may break out anytime soon so we are some distance away from deescalation I think we are quite a distance away from deescalation but uh because on the Chinese side you know the amount of infrastructure that has been built and those are permanent infrastructure for example there's a new Village coming up right next to uh in pangong so on the on the Northern Banks of pangong on the Chinese side Chong as Chinese call them and

so uh and plus India development is also there you know I still remember this uh um you know the fact is that so much has been pumped into this territory I'm not really sure whether larger deescalation would happen very soon now that is something that we need to watch out for meanwhile also we should speak the truth and try and separate it from politics so there's one side that's been saying that thousands of square kilometers of land the Chinese have taken and India has conceded to the Chinese the other side is saying nothing has been

lost or compromised the fact however is and it's now very clear with this settlement that one the first side was wrong no territory was taken from India no territory was taken however if the second side the other side said that nothing was compromised that's also wrong because India was denied access to a lot of territory to which it had access yeah that access is now been restored yeah to both sides to whatever they perceived as their line of actual control to that extent minus the deescalation to that extent shall we call it a return to

status quo anti it is actually a return to status qu an so you're right so that is something to feel good about absolutely so once again if when you watch deescalation keep an eye on what other Summits are coming up where Modi and shijin P have to run into each other oh